Diamondbacks GM Mike Hazen has splashed far more cash in free agency this winter than in his prior offseasons at the helm. Most notably, he pulled off a surprise strike for star hurler Madison Bumgarner, who’s now in town for a five-year term.
The addition of MadBum seemed to be spurred largely by the already legendary lefty’s own interest in playing in Arizona. While the team proved amenable to working out a mutually agreeable contract, it was in large part an opportunistic strike for an organization that had signaled satisfaction with its pitching depth when it non-tendered Taijuan Walker at the outset of the offseason.
So … what about the team’s preexisting star southpaw? Hazen has denied that the big new addition would push Robbie Ray out of the organization’s plans, but word was at the outset of the winter — i.e., before the Bumgarner pursuit even began — that the team was open to dealing Ray. With Ray set to earn a projected $10.8MM via arbitration before reaching the open market, the club could cash him in and re-distribute the salary to account for its recent additions or support further signings.
Perhaps it’s now a rather simple proposition: put Ray on the auction block and get what you can in trade value. The Snakes already added Mike Leake and Zac Gallen via trade in the summer. Merrill Kelly is a Leake-like sturdy presence while Luke Weaver will look to resume his impressive initial showing after resting and rehabbing. That makes five without Ray. And the D-Backs have a host of upper-level depth on the 40-man, including Jon Duplantier, Taylor Clarke, and Taylor Widener.
On the other hand … maybe now’s the time and this is the team to hang onto the upside-laden Ray. The southpaw has rare strikeout ability and is a rather affordable asset for a pitcher of his ability. Bumgarner’s deal features a notably light 2020 salary, perhaps leaving payroll space to fit both of these quality lefties. Keeping Ray would make the Arizona staff one of the better units in the National League. The D-Backs could deploy some of their extra arms in relief capacities, comforted by the extra depth. Or they might deal away a now-unnecessary starting piece, prioritizing near-term upside over pure cost-efficiency.
While the Dodgers still look like a strong favorite in the NL West, the L.A. org hasn’t yet converted on its bids to improve this winter and does have a few potential weak spots. If the Diamondbacks are to make a real bid at breaking the stranglehold on the division, keeping Ray in hopes he can perform to his ceiling would make an awful lot of sense. Even if the Dodgers respond to the pressure by acquiring a star-level player, that could redound to the long-term benefit of the Diamondbacks and other division pursuers.
As always, it depends in no small part upon the return that could actually be achieved. But in this case, perhaps, it’s more a question of organizational direction than the specifics of trade value. Picking up more prospect capital arguably isn’t as important to the D-Backs as maximizing their 2020 chances. And there’s always the fall-back option of a summer trade or qualifying offer at season’s end.
How do you think Hazen and co. should proceed? (Poll link for app users)
The answer is: Deal him if you get more than the pick value.
The Red Sox need to deal Mookie Betts because the Sox won’t get anything for Betts just like the Nats got nothing for Harper.
Compensation is only for those teams that get extra draft picks every year.
You’re going to get more than pick value. He’s on a severely under market 1 year deal. It’s not going to be a haul but it should be a top 100 guy + some ancillary pieces.
I’d say you clearly listen but wait to be wowed.
This may be a rare time where a deal near the deadline has as much value as trading before the season: you’ve got a good talent, and there aren’t going to be many rentals based on next offseasons projected FAs.
Given how affordable this contract is, a deal near the deadline means a contender at/near a cbt limit can make the addition without crashing payroll either. That in itself both broadens the marker and increases value.
I agree, but it was more of a whoa for me than a wow. Why would they sign Bum if they didn’t feel confident? They’re feeling confident.
We agree. The Diamondbacks should find out where they are before trading Ray. I doubt they are going to get blown away with an offer. And what happens if he’s great and they are five games back of a wild card spot at the deadline. Then they will get blown away.
Rays WHIP is not overly impressive and his ERA not real strong, I’d say if the right two pieces (minor league prospects) come back to make the trade.
If he’s traded before the season starts can he be offered a QO by the team that lands him? If so that could possibly make a difference on when he has the most value
If Robbie Ray is traded to a team that doesn’t get “competitive balance draft picks” then he has no draft pick value.
Cardinals would get a good pick, the big market Braves would not.
This statement is false. Market size has no impact on draft compensation, whereas proximity to the luxury tax line does. Washington got only a 4th rounder after Harper left because they passed the luxury tax line the year before. Only Chicago, Boston and New York passed the line in 2019, so any other team that acquired Ray and issues a QO would get a decent draft pick for Ray if that scenario played out
The Nats got nothing for Harper because they didn’t want to trade him as they believed they were contenders. Betts is a better all-around player at the same position on a team that is looking to dump payroll and teams would be clamoring to acquire him.
Comparing the two situations or players is absolutely laughable, and comparing Robbie Ray to either player is even more of a joke.
Google: Mental Health Emergency
Include your zip code.
Betts is making almost $30 million and as great as he is, nobody will give up much and pay Betts what he’s owed as great as he is for 1 expensive yr. Obviously he’s way way better than Harper, but my point still stands.
They should trade him but the Bumgarner addition makes it more likely they will keep him in my opinion. At least until the trade deadline
The article fails to mention Alex Young as a rotation option. I’d argue he’s a more likely option than Duplantier, Clarke or Widener in the event of an injury or trade.
The D’backs should hang onto Ray if they want to compete for the playoffs. The wildcard teams in the NL are so close that a Ray can be a difference maker. They got a lot of arms back for Greinke last year; they’d be okay without getting a Ton back for Ray. If someone comes in with a big offer, I’m sure Hazen will strongly consider.
That’s the thing. The Diamondbacks need to commit or rebuild. This fence straddling is maddening. Why let Greinke and Goldy go just to sign Bumgarner? Now they are going to let Ray go right after signing Bumgarner? They are churning the roster hoping the occasional new name will trick fans into thinking they are serious about contending.
Keep him until July and see where you stand. The difference in the return between now and then won’t be much if he’s having a good year.
On the other hand, if he’s getting shelled Arizona has no chance of getting anything more than comp pick value, which would mean making him a QO that he would very likely accept because he won’t get anywhere close to ~19MM after a down year on the open market..
Teams don’t only consider one side of the equation when deciding what moves to make – or not make – and you can’t bank on performance expectatons. What you cank bank on is trade value today, not in 8 months.
He’s been a quality starter for 3 years and is still in his prime. There’s obviously a risk of injury or regression but it’s a calculated risk. If they think they’re a playoff contender; it may be one you take. You can’t sell everyone at peak value. Honestly, peak value would’ve been the trade deadline last year.
They didn’t match up with a buyer then. I can’t imagine the offers now are significantly higher.
I don’t know about quality starter. The only year he’s been a quality starter was the year he vastly outperformed his FIP. In his case, he pitches to his FIP. He’s a back end of the rotation starter, which makes him serviceable.
What’s the value of a serviceable starter? Ten million bucks? So right now he’s worth about what he’s getting paid. Can they really get that much for him?
3.97 FIP 3.72 xFIP. He also pitches at Chase park where historically his splits are significantly worse. This is another case of unlocking some more value out of a guy. I think plenty of FO’s see it. Personally, I believe he could be a multi inning weapon in October.. Which is very valuable in its own regard.
This guy is someone I’ve never been able to figure out. I didn’t even notice that he is significantly better on the road. Two different pitchers.
“.This is another case of unlocking some more value out of a guy. ”
You might be right.
he is not worth anything close to $19MM, and he would not be offered QO. DBacks GM is too smart for that, Make the trade and move on.
In this market you should do well in a trade.
Pitchers who can generate high K rates reportedly have high price tags this off season even if they also have very high walk rates. The Diamondbacks definitely should trade him if they get the right pieces coming back. There are several teams looking for high upside pitchers and that will only drive the price upwards.
Unless they are blown away with an offer, I don’t see how it makes sense to trade him. They clearly plan on contending and are going to need him in the rotation as Gallen and Young will surely be on an innings limit.
I agree especially seeing that he’s not overly expensive. They make a run and if it doesn’t work out trade him at the deadline. I don’t see them getting much less if they wait. To go out and sign Bumgarner and Calhoun only to then trade Ray would be telling the fans that they’re happy maintaining middle of the pack status. It’s not like they’re going to get an enormous haul for him either way and if he has a great first half they might get a better package.
DBacks will not over take the Doyers their best hope is a last wild card and that is going to take 90 W’s I don’t see it for the DBacks
As a huge dbacks fan, you definitely trade him. That will give you over 26 million to spend with his 10 coming off the books. They need a big hitter so they can move marte to 2nd. You get ozuna or castellanos. Then you get a bullpen piece. Or you make a trade for marte. Need a right handed power hitter. Plus ray has oblique problems.
They don’t need offense as much as pitching. They’ll take better run producers, but run prevention is a more reliable formula for extended winning because even good offensive teams slump. Recall most of their loses were not blowouts but rather simply blown. Pitching depth is the key to winning now and going forward. Hazen will only trade Ray when he gets an on the cusp organizational top prospect starter.
What about something like Ray for Happ and Frazier?
Stop. The Yankees have no need for Robbie Ray and the Diamondbacks are not going to trade a guy slated to make ~10MM for a player that is a decade older and making ~7MM more after a terrible year which saw him relegated to the bullpen because he was so pathetic.
Clint Frazier has zero value to NL teams because he’s a DH.
Since when is Frazier a DH? This is the first I’ve heard of that. No he’s not going to win any gold gloves, but that doesnt make him a DH.
Different position, but Frazier is Chuck Knoblauch II. Poor fielder, bad attitude and uncoachable. He’s a clubhouse cancer, yet he keeps being served up on a silver platter as if he is elite. Keep him in NY, best fit for him.
I think Ray could be traded if a controllable pitcher with big arm/upside was included in a return. Someone like Jhoan Duran, who the Snakes are familiar with, comes to mind.
Frazier is ok. Happ no way. Might as well keep ray. Happ is declining.
Most Yankee and Dodger fans:
We want Captain Planet, Captain America, and Heman
and we are ONLY giving you a return of a half chewed bubblegum, lol GTFO
This is a dream trade for me. Trade ray. You have 26 million to spend. Get mookie Betts in center. Trade a few of our top prospects for betts. Especially duplantier. Then yasmany contract comes off the books next year. We can afford mookie. Hazen has history with boston. Makes alot of sense. Imagine mookie in arizona
Sell or compete.
Don’t be the Phillies going nowhere and picking in the middle. You lock yourself into going nowhere.
That’s the way the rules have it set up.
Arizona has been doing that for ten years, 1 steep forward 2 steep. They have a plan and then they change the next season. They wanted out of Greinke’s contract after one year and there other.
If they had kept Zac G., keep Ray and got MadBum they would be able to possibly overtake the Doyers.
They wouldn’t have signed Bumgarner if they still had Greinke.
I don’t really understand a Robbie Ray trade, or why the Yankees would give anyone of value for him. Why? Consider, he’s an older Matthew Boyd. Their numbers are almost identical but Boyd is 1/3 the price. If the Yankees were going to get one, I’d rather have them get Boyd, honestly. But, I don’t really think they need either, nor do I think they should trade for either one because both teams’ asking price is too high.
You think Boyd is had at a lower prospect value? Seems like he’s higher for those reasons. I think you’re making the opposite point you’re trying to make by arguing he’s better.
Nope, I said nothing of prospect value. I think the demand for a return on Boyd will be higher too. So I agree with you. There are several statements on here about which one is a more effective pitcher and many say Boyd sucks. My only point was that statistically they are quite similar.
And in the beginning I started with saying in don’t understand why anyone would give anyone of real value for Ray. In think because of the reasons stated, Boyd is the better option, as I started in the last sentence.
I’m not sure where you got Boyd has a lower prospect value but I didn’t mean to imply that.
Are you David Stewart?
Mookie Betts would be a nice mid-season trade, but his contract would cripple the Dbacks. You’ve got wishful thinking, but your thinking like a Dodger fan. The Dbacks have to be the best at money ball, especially since the Dodgers and Giants have more money and also brains behind their organizations. Friedman won’t as easily part with his prospects. What does that tell you about how he views assets.
Bum will be traded eventually. They cant compete with the Dodgers.
Yes they can. The Dodgers are not some unbeatable force and their rotation wi take a big hit without Ryu.
trust me, i want them to be better than LA, just dont see it
They aren’t competing with LA. I don’t think anyone truly believes that. They’re competing with Philly, Milwaukee, STL, Cincy, Mets and every other wild card contender. I think most people think they can compete with that level of team. There’s only so many playoff spots to go around. And obviously some teams will drop out. If AZ doesn’t want to drop out of the race in December; I’m not going to blame them. Hazen put a much better team on the field last year than I would’ve ever expected possible.
LA will get a pitcher if they need another one. I count that they have 11 starters on 40 man roster. Urai will replace Ryu and will win more games than Ryu did.
Wins are a useless stat.. Go away. I highly doubt Urias will have a 2.32 ERA and finish 2nd in the Cy Young voting.
What good is a low ERA if you don’t W at least 15 games or more for your team, that low ERA means nothing
Ray seems like he’d be a fit for the Cubbies, but Arizona would probably ask for Bryant in return, and there’s no way they’d trade him within the division especially to a team they’re still chasing (I.E Dodgers) so getting any of their vaunted prospects is out of the question.
Realistically, what teams need pitching this late in the offseason? Cubs, Angels, Astros (maybe?), Phillies, Twins, Reds and maybe the White Sox? Arizona seems pretty limited at this point, assuming they won’t trade him within the NL West, and they’re probably going to have to hold him until the deadline next year when contenders and fringe teams are grasping at straws to find an arm to put them over the top.
I know I said in another comment or two that you can’t assume he’ll have value above that of a comp pick in July, but unlless one of the above teams makes a mindblowing offer I don’t see Arizona having the ability to pivot to a better deal like they might midseason.
I doubt Arizona asks for Bryant. It’d be more likely they’d ask for a near ML ready prospect like a Nico Hoerner. Though I don’t think that those two teams line up at all here.
why sign Madbum if they want to deal Ray — they need pieces to become a better team now not later — they seem to be a confused organization as to what direction they want to take
They are doing exactly what they said they will do. Building a good foundation of sustainability while remaining competitive.
What’s the rush to trade him now. Wait to see if you are out of the race by the trade deadline. Either way you are getting a top 100 player and throws ins. Maybe even a little more because you only owe half his salary then.
The Diamondbacks never have to trade him. They get a solid pick back that pairs with their free pick and gives them a huge spending pool for the draft.
The Red Sox however will get nothing for Mookie Betts.
If Ray stays with the DBacks and is just average or below avg., they won’t give him a QO and he’ll walk – no comp pick. He actually has to be worth the ~17.8m QO.
Mookie will almost certainly get a QO if he’s still with BOS at seasons end, and BOS would get comp pick.
Sorry, the signing teams pick. Not the comp*
Regardless of what I personally believe, why should Ray accept a QO if he could accept a multi-year offer that nets him more in total? If Wheeler can get $100MM on the market, Ray should at least be able to net the half of that. Unless you think no one would pay him more than, let’s say $8-10MM AAV which really does not apply here. If that would be the case, I am pretty sure he would have already signed an extension.
And save he gets injured in 2020 or has a horrible season that sees him removed from the rotation.
Boston would get a comp pick after the 4th round if Betts rejects the QO and Red Sox stay over luxury tax. If they get under the tax they will get a pick after the comp b round. No one gets the signing teams pick under the new guidelines
The Red Sox will get 3-4 prospects including 2-3 in the top 100 for Betts when they trade him.
2-3 in the top 100 for 1 year of a 30 million dollar outfielder? The orioles got one for half a season of Machado. The Rangers got 1 for Darvish. And these were back half of the top 100 guys. There’s absolutely no chance that Betts brings back 3. There’s not enough surplus value on that contract. Not even close. It’s a year
Spare Tire Dixon
At least start the season with him. There is no point in signing Bumgarner for 4 years– and adding to the offense–if you’re not going for it in 2020. They can always re-assess at the trade deadline and shake down a team that is desperate for SP
Spare Tire Dixon
The Angels should be kicking their tires. They still need SP.
Yeah. This will likely cost them Marsh + though. With nearly 700 million bucks owed to Rendon and Trout; they will need to plug other holes with cheap talent down the line.
They’re not trading Marsh for a rental. Period.
Too bad for the Angels that Dave Stewart isn’t still the AZ GM. He’d trade Ray,plus 8 prospects and $3 million in international signing money for … OK, I was going to say Tyler Skaggs but even I can’t make that joke, at least not at Christmas time.
I agree that they shouldn’t trade Marsh for a rental. But other teams are going to be in on Ray and realistically it’s going to cost a prospect in that range to get him. I don’t think Ray to LAA is a good fit for that reason. The Angels have a ton of money on their payroll to 4 players the next 2 years. Then a ton of money on two players for the next 5 years…. They’ll need to be able to fill other spots cheaply. The Angels will have to rely on guys like Marsh to be able to come in and produce.
I’m really curious how much Marsh moves up the prospect rankings this year. He tore up the Arizona Fall League, which is a tough league, and was one of the younger players on the leader board.
I really hope the Angels keep him.
The Angels aren’t in any tough spot financially or tax wise. You make it sound like they need to shop at the dollar store. Many team rosters (NYY, BOS, LAD, WAS, HOU, PHI and a few others) are constructed the same way, 1-4 high salary players (25m-38m), 5-10 mid-low salary players (5m-24m), and a bunch of 500k-5m players. The Angels have roughly 20m-23m available as of today before they hit the tax.
The Angels owe $128 million to 5 guys. You act like I’m trashing the team here. It takes 26 guys to fill out the roster. How much does that leave for the rest of the guys? Not a whole hell of a lot. They absolutely will need cheap production from guys like Marsh and Adell in the future. They can’t afford to give out many more deals to position players. Simmons is a FA at seasons end also so that will have to be addressed.
Ohtani goes into arbitration next year. Heaney, Bundy, and Robles will all be due another arb raise next season. The Angels will absolutely need minor leaguers to step up.
Next season you owe 118 million to four players before those arbitration raises. You’ll have a gigantic hole at SS that will need to be filled. There’s no catcher as of today and the I’m certain they’ll need bullpen help.
Things certainly get better after 2 seasons when Pujols and Upton are off the books. If Arte will swallow the tax bill before that; you’ll be in better shape. But they certainly don’t have a nice clean balance sheet.
Also I see you put 24 million bucks into the “mid salary” bin. I’m going to have to strongly disagree with that assessment. Anything over the qualifying offer is certainly not going to be a mid salary.
@jbigz12. Fair enough…
tier 2 high salaries 16m-24m
Are you sure about Ohtani and arbitration? I think he signed a 5 year deal from Japan, why would he get arbitration after year 3?
Nvm, just checked cots and it does show A1,A2,A3 for Ohtani starting in 2021.
Yes. And he’s the first two way player to enter the system. I have no idea what that arb payout may look like.
Lol 700m bucks (entire contract terms) is NOT how teams look at it and build rosters each year, they look at it as annual salaries 36m and 35m for the given year and how it relates to the teams revenues and mlb luxury tax levels.
Honestly in 2020/21/22 the Angels have more salaries coming off the books and will have plenty of options to fill the roster.
The Angels aren’t going anywhere so why would they need Robbie Ray?
On October 1st Mike Trout is flying back east to watch his Eagles for the winter. He has season tickets.
Right, because you are a genius and know who is going to pitch well in 2020.
You know Minor, Lynn and Kluber will pitch well. You know that Luzardo and Puk, will hit the floor running. You know that Ohtani and Canning wont. You know that Manaea who struck out 6 men per nine is going to be great and Heaney who struck out over 11 is going to stink. You know that a PED user who was never good until the year he was caught taking PEDs is going carry over his success into next year.
I’ve been interviewed on fantasy baseball XM radio, played in prestigious stat leagues, study pitching (which is why I win), and I don’t have nearly the knowledge or confidence that you have.
I wait for your next brilliant post in anticipation.
” fantasy baseball ”
You sound like it.
Mac you’re really giving him what he wants with that kind of reply. If you’re that easy to rile up; people are going to keep going. His post had no content—other than trying to get a response like the one you served up.
Right, because fantasy baseball players don’t know the players.
You know who don’t know the players? People who don’t play competitive fantasy baseball and only follow a couple of teams.
But please tell me, who is going to be good in 2020. I need a laugh.
I’m really hoping these people aren’t idiots and can back up what they say with content. Sometimes when you challenge them it works. Sometimes they even have reasonable takes and sometimes they dig a hole so deep that a mountain climber couldn’t get out. Either way it makes it more interesting.
Most of the time they are just idiots. But occasionally you find someone who has a clue.
Macstruts, you have got to be the most thinned skinned, no backbone, all bark and no bite Halo Clown. If one does not agree with you, you lose all control of yourself and it shows.
And now are sucking that tummy in and push that chest out… your a “Fantasy” guy… I think I can speak for a lot of us. We are real proud of you being a “Fantasy” guy, but we live in reality. Continue on in your “Fantasy” world Halo Clown.
I actually thought of you when I wrote about posters digging a hole. The only take that you have had is “The Angels should have opened a spot for Thaiss”.
It let me know that you are clueless and that you have nothing to offer.
Angels have no need for Ray. He is a back of the rotation starter and they have added two of those already.
Yet, he’s elite when he’s not walking people because of his low hit and high K rates, and he’s had stretches of that in his career.
To the Astros …
dynamite drop in monty
Smoke that skin wagon!
Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed?
Great Movie watch it all the time,
He played for the Angels. Their Bend minor league affiliate.
dynamite drop in monty
Is that a Tombstone reference?? LOL
Yes. For Mike Trout they should definitely trade him.
What a great poll question!
How long before diamondbacks trade madbum I take under 3 .
dynamite drop in monty
Trade Ray to the Twins for Larnach + another prospect. Then acquire Michael A Taylor from the Nationals for a prospect.
There’s no way you get a top 5 prospect from a deep farm system for at best a #3 starter especially when he’s potentially a rental
Look at it like this. Right now, a buying team is hoping to contend, knows they get him one year to try, but, thats it. They may even feel their 1-5 are pretty solid as-is.
At the end of June that win-now team could be 2 games up in the division, and their #2 goes down with TJ.
Is he worth more to that buying team then in the midseason than he is now?
Fans tend to be too obsessed with Opening Day rosters. The season is organic, not static; stuff happens. Injuries, under-performance, sometimes even over-performance. Opening day is 1/162 of the season.
The D-Backs have a legit claim to Wild Card contender status. Hazen will see how it all plays out, and react; like Sterns in Milwaukee and Neander in Tampa, he does it as well as anyone around. And Arizona has more money than the other two.
Whatever decision he makes, it’s probably going to be the right one. IMHO, if he does move Ray, it won’t be til July.
Another reason Ray’s trade value is so high is that teams can trade for him and extend him, much like St. Louis did with Goldschmidt. Ray will make about $10.8M in his last trip through arbitration. Plus, he has never indicated that he is committed to testing Free Agency. He has a very reasonable contract now, and could be extended at another reasonable rate.
How would teams do that, threaten him with being unemployed in May if he doesn’t sign an extension?
If Ray is feeling healthy he shouldn’t sign an extension for less than Zack Wheeler just signed for.
I think a MadBum-like deal of about $17M per year is more realistic than a Wheeler-like deal. Right now many people are questioning whether or not Ray should be offered a QO next year, for fear the Dbacks would be stuck with Ray for 1 year, $18M. So $17M is probably more realistic than $20M+.
I’m a Dbacks fan and I want him traded. Ray has all the left-handed talent in the world but the guy is a headcase that will never take it to the next level.. I’m sick and tired of watching him pitch 4 2/3 with over 100 pitches. Get what you can for him and move on, please.
All those are reasons to not sign him to another contract, but not reasons to fail at maximizing trade value. That said, I agree with your underlying point to trade him during the off season if they get anything remotely close to what they envision as a good deal because of his tendency to walk too many batters.
Dbacks have over $55M coming off the books next year (Ray $10.8M, Yasmany Tomas $17M, Nick Ahmed $9M, Peralta $9M, Lamb $4.5M, RP Andrew Chafin $4.5M, and Matt Andreas $2M), so they don’t Have to trade Ray to sign others this off-season. They are working on a 2 year plan, as evidenced by Bumgarner’s and Calhoun’s contracts which only cost $6M each this year. Of course, that 2 year plan also includes the need to sign a SS, RF and multiple bullpen arms. So, they have the ability to take on a big contract ahead of time this year if they chose that path. The Calhoun signing indicates they expect their prospect rich farm system to start producing major leaguers in 2 years, especially OF and SS, so they are most interested in 2 or 3 year contracts, not 4 or 5 year contracts. That’s why they signed Calhoun rather than Ozuna or Castellanos. I think they continue to follow that path for position player signings.
Yes, They have a short and long game, evidenced by winning 85 games while trading your franchise icon. No they won’t “take on big contracts.” Madbum is about as big as it gets, but that was rather team friendly for his caliber. Think Oakland and Tampa when you think Mike Hazen. He’s not at all like his predecessors, who handcuffed him a year or two removed from competing for a championship. He wants to prove that he can Influence an organization to field a championship team. He has two brilliant right hand men who want to stay with him, although they’ve been offered more money and position in other organizations. He graduated from Princeton and he grew up in the game around smart people. He doesn’t think like dumb, traditional people who ruin small market teams, causing fans to endure a decade of losing at their insane casino odds approach.
That way they seem to be in the same position each year. Every 2 years all your FA signing turn over, If they do good they sign with other teams. Arizona needs a 7,5, 3 and 2-year plan.
Larry, the 3, 5 and 7 year plans include the infusion of top notch prospects from their farm system along with high priced veteran talent. The young guys at minimum wage for 5 years keeps payroll from getting out of hand and forcing unwanted sell-offs of talent for financial reasons.
Deben cambiarlo ahora que hay equipos con interés para adquirirlo, así consiguen prospectos pq realmente no es un buen lanzador y ganará mucho dinero pq está en el 3er. Año de arbitraje previo a la agencia libre.
With the rumor of Houston wanting to trade Correa, why not a trade involving the two?
What rumor is that? Nothing here about Correa.
AZ has no need for Correa. Ahmed is the best defensive SS in baseball and is an extension candidate for them.
Ahmed is your answer? Lol Id take Correa over Ahmed anyday.
Would you take Correa for 60% of the time or Ahmed for 90% of the time? That’s the reality.
And the price difference. Correa is going to get a massive deal. Ahmed should be relatively cheap.
See where you are as the deadline approaches, may be able to get more for him then anyway
Definitely keep him, unless blown away because Madbum only taking 6 million this year goes a long way to have money on other key additions. They should sign another veteran starter and convert to the bullpen.
Here’s a deal that helps two teams:
Yanks get Rob Ray
Diamondbacks get left handed Jordan Montgomery, Thairo Estrada, and Yanks top pitching prospect Albert Abreu. Diamondbacks also take on Happ contract and Yanks pay 7-10 mil of it.
Thoughts Yankee and Diamondback fans? Thoughts????
The D’backs aren’t taking anything on J.A. Happ’s deal for that package. Thairo is a utility infielder at best. Monty is in arbitration and Abreu can’t throw strikes consistently.
Yanks could be a Trade partner for someone like Frazier and a young pitcher.
No way they take on Happ’s contract, not even part of it. Besides, that offer is clearly an offer from the Yankees to offload a bad contract on their part. They’d have to give up some proven talent for that and not injury plagued.
Here come the Yankee fans thinking anyone wants Happ lol
Or Frazier. Lol.
When you say, “Yanks top pitching prospect Albert Abreu,” did you mean “Yanks not top pitching prospect Albert Abreu”?
dynamite drop in monty
MVP Baseball 2005 computer generated minor leaguer Albert Abreu?
Dbacks front office is one of the best in the game. If they deal him, it’s going to end up being a big W for the team.
May not be a Big W but it will be a W, Ray has a terrible WHIP and walks too many hitters, he is nothing special and I’d say for two good prospects move him.
“Dbacks front office is one of the best in the game” …. now THAT is how you troll in a comment section!
He’s a snake until July 29 unless they are contending.
I don’t really see a need to trade him. His value would have been higher last year. Got to be concerned a little about the regress in #’s.
Keep Ray and better the chances of making a serious playoff run this year.
Bumgarner, Ray, Gallen, Leake, Kelly would hold up well in a playoff series.
Just a guess but I think there’s a decent chance that knowing if they got Bumgarner it would do nothing, but help Ray’s value by removing a pitcher from the market from the pitching needy teams. I’d imagine they’d love to deal him for a good return, but we’ll have to see if a team would do that.
Nobody wants Odubel Herrera, I get that. But hear me out on this one:
D’backs are in the market for a CF, and a place like Arizona would be an ideal spot for him to rebound from all the adversity and not get slaughtered by the press like he would in a market like NY or Boston. D’back move Ketal to 2B full time as they desire. Odubel’s contract balances out the swap to where the Phillies will stay just under the luxury tax threshold, yet still land there much needed left handed starter to slot in between Wheeler and Arrieta. The Phillies also get a back end reliever and a left handed 3B to compliment the RH Scott Kingery. This would also allow Kingery to bounce around and play other positions, if needed. As far as the D’backs, they’ve filled their CF vacancy and added depth in the corner OF, another area they were looking to address even after the Calhoun signing. Nick the stick has a chip on his shoulder and he’s a very good hitter but he has to put behind his brother’s death and stay focused. Again, this would be a good market for him to get going. They also receive their 3B of the future, a MLB ready lefty to replace Ray and a couple of intriguing top 20 organizational arms in Llovera and Romero. Money makes sense for both teams and both teams fill areas of need.
Ok, the onslaught may commence from commentors now haha
dynamite drop in monty
Good thinking, although I think Arizona and their Red Sox connection make a deal eventually for JBJ
I think people overestimated the trade market for Ray this year. With the abundance of free agent pitchers I think it actually makes it less likely teams are willing to part with players the Dbacks think are a value to them. Kluber is a good example. He has an extra year of control than Ray (grantees, more money too), but for the Dbacks right now Ray is more valuable than someone like Mazzara, unless they were able to get a couple more pieces that could contribute now.
I am a big Dodgers and baseball fan. I lead with that to tell you that if the rosters for both teams stay this way, I’ll be concerned about AZ. The organization is run by former Dodger management, and has always made their priority to beat the Dodgers. The team is made up of Dodger killers and opponents that rise up when they see the Blue. They play a very aggressive style that LA has a hard time with. If AZ stays healthy, they could make a run for the top spot, and I say that with confidence and with the setup of our current roster.
Ray is worth two prospects and the DBacks should take it,
If they keep him who moves to the bullpen? If they’re all healthy. Ray could be a nice set up guy but he’s never come out of the pen before.
If they keep him, I see the rotation as Bumgarner, Ray, Leake, Gallen, Kelly to start out. Weaver should be eased back in after his injury (maybe bullpen). Young and Duplantier probably makes sense as bullpen pieces as well in the short term. Clarke is a depth piece and not much more. Widener probably starts in AAA to see if he can rebound from the disaster 2019 he had there. I see Young as the next man up if Ray is traded or in case of injury.
Really Robbie Ray??? Outside of 2017 when has he been a trully above average pitcher? Is he worth any more than what Kluber was dealt for?
Yes , because he’s cheaper and healthier than Kluber right now. CK is no sure bet to be a cy Young candidate again, and Ray oozes potential if he can just be more efficient
You may be right but you ay be wrong…..Kluber has a proven success pedigree, and has pitched in the post season while admittedly having a regrettable 2019.
Regrettably, oozing potential doesn’t mean anything beyond almost being as good as the best!
Texas didn’t trade for Kluber’s past achievements though. They gave up what they felt was appropriate for what he can be expected to contribute in 2020. Most people would agree that Ray is more of a sure thing than Kluber for this year, irregardless of past performance
85 wins last year and now they have added Bumgarner and Calhoun. They needed 5 more wins to make the WC last season.
Bumgarner, Ray, Leake, Gallen, Kelly, Weaver, and Young is a pretty deep rotation. Add the rest of the depth pieces they mention in this article and even if there are injuries the Diamondbacks rotation will be solid.
Keep him and if they are not contending in July then make a decision about what to do. .
Agreed…you never, never have enough pitching!
And for those that need pitching, the talent you might get in return in July by contending clubs far outweighs what you might get right now while kicking him to the curb while trying to convince somebody else that he’s valuable and worth top compensation.
If the DBacks feel they can get a nice return for Ray they should do it. They have decent depth of arms in Bumgarner, Weaver, Kelly, Leake, Gallen, Young with Duplantier, Clarke and Widener in the wings. Not too shabby.
Beyond Bum and Ray, not one of those guys have ever thrown 100 innings let alone a full starters season between 175-200 innings……trading Ray now might sound good but you’re banking on unproven talent for the most part that hasn’t proven anything as yet, especially if the D-Backs are planning on contending this coming season.
Ray’s return would be far less today than what you think.
Leake threw 197 innings last year and Merrill Kelly threw 183. Weaver threw 136 in 2018 and would’ve thrown more last year if he hadn’t been injured. Even Gallen threw 170 last year if you count his AAA innings. Add in Duplantier, Young, Clarke, Widener, and Martin to mix and match for a 5th spot or bullpen roles. They have plenty of depth without Ray, especially if they get a player in return that can help them in either the ‘pen or outfield
Rocky doesn’t like facts. Mike Leake is the definition of an innings eater. Gallen pitched a combined 171 innings in AAA and the majors last season. And of course Kelly pitched 183. I really don’t understand how you can keep writing this crap. You legitimately could not have been more wrong if you wanted to be.
AZ has been building a nice team. Given that, I am skeptical of Escobar as a middle of the order run producer. I think last season was an outlier and even though I like the guy he shouldn’t be counted on to repeat. So I think AZ still needs another productive bat. Trading Ray might fetch one. Or there are a couple of FA options left. I think some offers should be fielded for Ray to find a ready bat and maybe a lottery ticket arm. If AZ is rocking at midseason, they could shop for a short term arm in the summer.
Trade Ray for some outfield help. He’s not re signing with them next year and the Dbacks rotation will still be solid without him
The trade to make would be the Cardinals Carlos Martinez for Robbie Ray. Benefits both teams!!!