5:54PM: “All signs point to a two-team race” between the Dodgers and Padres for Betts, the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier writes, and “Major League sources believe that it’s likelier than not that Betts gets traded, potentially in the very near future.” Price might yet be involved in a potential Dodgers deal, though adding Price alongside Betts “might compromise the prospect return for the Sox,” since Los Angeles doesn’t want to absorb much of Price’s contract. On the Padres’ side, they “seem open on just about any other outfielder” than Tommy Pham or Trent Grisham in trade talks. The Diamondbacks were another team linked to Betts in trade rumors, though Speier hears from a source that there was “no real traction” between Boston and Arizona even before the D’Backs acquired Starling Marte, so Arizona seems to be out of the Betts hunt.
7:30AM: With camp fast approaching, teams weighing major trades are surely beginning to feel the pressure. The Dodgers are keeping their cool as they continue to pursue Red Sox star Mookie Betts, Andy McCullough of The Athletic writes (subscription link). But they’re also possibly nearing a decision.
Talks between the coastal giants could well be reaching an inflection point, it seems. McCullough writes that the teams have “approached a resolution” in their talks “in recent days.”
Details of the packages under consideration are limited; as McCullough notes, it’s possible to imagine rather a wide variety of permutations. But the talks — at least, in some variations — do involve high-priced Boston hurler David Price. (Shades of another major trade between these teams?)
As we discussed recently in a poll on the subject, there’s no shortage of pressure on the team to make strides. And the goal is obviously to find a major new performer. But the team also has reason to remain comfortable with its existing talent. No surprise, then, that McCullough indicates the organization isn’t really interested in stretching too far to make a deal.
It’s worth noting, too, that holding back assets for mid-season trades represents a viable alternative strategy. Betts himself could be available then, if he’s not poached first by another club (such as the division-rival Padres). The Dodgers can’t assume they’ll coast to another title, particularly now that the Diamondbacks have compiled such an interesting roster, but there’s some conceptual merit to waiting for mid-season roster holes to open before acting.
Speaking of that aforementioned poll … the results were interesting. Respondents were fairly evenly split as to whether the Dodgers would pull off a blockbuster. Among those that foresee a deal, about half think Betts will indeed land to L.A.
Why are people writing off the Red Sox to the point of talking about them selling midseason before ST even starts? This team is like 90+% the team that won the WS a couple of years ago. Baseball fans (and writers apparently) have the shortest memories and the most what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentalities ever.
Because the Yanks are better at almost every position, the Rays are great, and the Blue Jays are much improved. The Red Sox pitching is a big problem. When you have two 30 million dollar arms and an 18 million dollar a year starter you can’t rely on to stay healthy, you might be in trouble.
Yanks are better and the Redsox can’t steal the Yankees signs anymore because Cora got canned. Red sox are doomed!
I love how the Yankees spend, spend and spend every year and still haven’t won a WS in 11 years! Keep spending yanks!
I love how per the article, “The Dodgers are keeping their cool as they continue to pursue Red Sox star Mookie Betts.” They’re not keeping their cool, they’re too cheap to spend on high-price stars. I love how they bring in re-cycled projects and then wonder why they don’t win the WS. peterdipersioo6 loves “…how the Yankees spend, spend and spend and still haven’t won a WS in 11 years!” The Dodgers haven’t won in 32 years despite $4.25B in TV revenue even before the regular season revenues start. The mighty Yankees have been baseball’s WS Champions 27 times. The lowly, names ever-changing Bridegrooms, Streetcars of Desire and Dodgers, not so much—6-132 record since 1883. Ouch!!!
Imagine being such a dbag that your username is “Padreshave32yearstobestdodger1stwswin”
The Padres suck now and pretty much have forever. When was the last time they were relevant? You belong with the Mariners and Pirates as far as teams no one else’s fan base even thinks about.
LA is cheap? They offered Harper 45 million a year on a short term deal. They offered Cole 300 million. The Kershaw contract is far from cheap. I have no idea what you’re talking about
Padres are still a few years away, IMO. They’ve got some good young players. Tatis is phenomenal if he can stay healthy. Paddack, Gore and Patiño (assuming they all perform to expectations and remain injury free) will anchor that rotation for a long time.
They still have some very obvious holes and aren’t nearly as good as LA or the Diamondbacks. Third place and a .500 season is probably their best hope Betts or no Betts.
Son, aren’t you up a little past your bedtime?
BTW, that comment was made for the little feller…Iknowmorebaseball.
When was the last time the Dodgers won it all? 1988.
How long did it take the Bums to win their first WS? From 1883 to 1955.
The Bums have a history of winning the pennant but blowing it.
Padres first year was 1969. They have quite a few years to go before they have suffered as many years of frustration as the 72 years Dodgers fans did.
Being a dbag is also calling out people that are obviously more informed about the team you cheer for than you are.
Oh yeah, those were tough years for all of us Dodgers fans. I particularly struggled back in 1901. Dealing with the McKinley assassination on top of the Dodgers not winning the series was just awful.
That whooshing sound is my post going right over your head.
So glad you can use google though.
Not sure what you think went over my head. How is a New York team that rode horses to their games relevant to a discussion about Mookie Betts and the Dodgers?
And actually, I used wikipedia and I had to because no one remembers what was going on in 1901. Obviously you don’t since the WS didn’t even start until 1903.
I’m pretty sure you’re the same person as padreshave83years or whatever that other user’s name is. I’m surprised you haven’t come down yet dude. You gotta take a break and detox once in a while.
The Dodgers franchise that started in 1883 won league championships in 1889, 1890, 1899, and 1900.
If you’re going to count the 20 years before the modern World Series, you need to count the championships that existed in this years. An earlier “World Series” existed for short time, and the Dodgers franchise lost one and split another with the Louisville Colonels.
Now, if you’re going to skip those years, the Padres lose out. I guess that’s why they’re included, then.
The hallmark sign of a clueless (and possibly disturbed) poster: someone who uses multiple user names and responds to/backs up his own posts.
There are millions of Dodger fans who have witnessed at least one of their WS titles. There is not a single Padre fan alive who has that experience.
The Dodgers franchise beat the Pittsburgh Pirates in a postseason series in 1900, after winning their respective leagues. So 17 years after forming, 3 years before the modern World Series, the Dodgers won their league championship and beat a rival league champion in the postseason.
Weird, I don’t see the Padres having anything like that in their history, and I don’t see any World Series trophies yet. Better hurry up.
Imagine being so mean to people and thinking that that’s ok.
Well if it wasn’t for the cheating Astros and Red Sox maybe we would’ve had one. Watch both of those teams rot away without their cameras
Lol. Padres have never won anything ever. They are the equivalent of a AAA team. You are obviously trying to compensate for your losing team.
The Yankees are arguably better on paper.
The season is long. The Sox could compete and beat the Yankees. We’ll see.
Don’t have to imagine, it is my user name. Yeah, 1998 and nope—am a Padres man. Hey Patches—bet Perdue didn’t let you in. Can’t contaminate the pool. Tell your pappies 200 lbs. of aluminum cans are not enough of a bribe to get you in.
Yeah Patches, but how many pushups can you do?
Hey Marius— Arthur and his Knights should’ve let the frozen lake-crossing barbarians have your candiass. Your cupcakes paid Harper $0. Cole got $00. Kershaw’s the only guy that got $90M but our lousy Myers just about matched that. Plus, they both are a sorry excuse for a player. Of course you have no idea what I’m talking about—you’re a slowpoke.
It does not matter what he talks about. Every day when he gets out of Middle school somewhere in San Diego, he starts shooting his mouth about the Dodgers.
Come on.
I’m in agreement with you DrDan75.
Actually, the WS started a couple of years after the McKinley assassination.
Hey Jack Russell Terrier: Doyers early on were Bridegrooms, Draft Dodgers and Dodgers. Now they’re just the Chokers. Have been since 1883. Heard they only had 5 teams per league and they still couldn’ win it all. You say the WS started in 1903. They didn’t come in first before that qand not from 1903-1954. What you got to challenge them apples, dummy? We’re not the same person but you keep that thought bouncing around in that size 6 & 1/8th cap of yours. Get back on the conspiracy theory medication.,
I’m a Padres fan lol. Even I know the dodgers aren’t cheap, but I do know you’re a troll
Vegas has the Padres right now at 82W’s for 2020 when the bookies pick the W and L there usually very accurate. There definitely on their way up to playoff spots in a year
The Red Sox can trade Betts and still be a contender, it all depends on their pitching.
I would say it also depends on whether Bogaerts and Devers can repeat their 2019 performances. Benintendi would also have to step up. But you’re right, it’s doable.
That pitching needs to make up 12 wins for the Red Sox to tie for the 2nd Wild Card. 18 wins if they trade Betts. That’s just not going to happen.
The big problem with the Padres is that… they’re the Padres. They are the embodiment of mediocrity. They are RC cola and Jack in the box. They can’t complete with the best but they are never quite the worst either. They win between 70 and 80 games a year… EVERY year.
Other small market teams make a run at it and then rebuild because they don’t want to pay their best players. The Royals won the WS in 2015. Right now they are a second division team, but they will be back. The Padres are always the same. And that, to me, is the most frustrating thing about being a Padres fan.
Yeah because the World Series existed in 1883. You trolls suck at this
Thanks for mentioning the Louisville Colonels. Used to go to the minor league version’s games with my dad before they left for Pawtucket.
Not over-paying is literally them keeping their cool. It’s why they’ve won the west for years and will continue to do so for years.
I would argue that the main reason the Dodgers have had trouble winning the WS is Andrew Friedman’s insistence on micro-managing in-game decisions and not trusting Roberts or anyone else to manage the team.
Friedman is extraordinarily good at almost every aspect of his job. How about letting your manager manage, Friedman?
I’d hate the dodgers too if I were a Padres fan! Have a nice 1/2 season above .500!
padresblahblahblah, In that case, you guys should hang out. You seem like you’d be good friends.
Pretty sure you are wrong. Goes to show how little you know about sports that you had to go to Google to find information on Wiki.
Also sure you are Patches O’Houlihan.
AND the reason they have not won the WS even though they have spent $1.5 billion in the last 6 years on payroll
The problem with the Padres is that they are a small revenue team. Bottom third in baseball. The Dodgers are #2 in revenue with $300 million more in revenue more than the Padres and the ability to spend $200 million plus on payroll without blinking an eye while the Padres are maxed out at $140 million.
Their GM has made some questionable moves in an attempt to buy a winning team. 1st in 2015 and then with the Myers extension, the Hosmer signing, and finally with the Machado signing. Not the right strategy for a team that simply cannot spend with the likes of the Dodgers and Giants..
The problem with the Dodgers is they have a gun shy President of Operations that has not made the kind of deal that would put them over the top from also rans to winners. If you spend $1.5 billion in 6 years, you have got to come home with a ring. He has none.
Either the owners of the Dodgers have put a kibosh on spending, something they deny, or Friedman has tiny marbles.
Doesn’t that depend on who they get in return for Betts. Verdugo, May, and a couple of prospects would be a 5-6 WAR return.
Haha typical Yankees fan remark.
Asinine as each of your comments have been, I’ve enjoyed brushing up on what I had remembered was a pretty successful several years preceding the first World Series for Brooklyn:
1st of 8 teams (1900)
1st of 12 (1899)
2nd of 8 (1902)
3rd of 8 (1901)
337-221 with 12 ties, for a .604 winning percentage over four full seasons.
Better than any four-year stretch of consecutive Padres seasons that I can recall. And while I would prefer Tony Gwynn on my all-time greats team, Brooklyn had a Hall of Famer with an almost equally deadly batting eye in Willie Keeler.
All the foregoing just a few clicks away, on the same website that each MLBTR player link leads.
*Directed primarily at the gentleman from San Diego, bless his heart.
Yankee is better. The reason the Evil Empire lost each yr is cuz the teams pitching was so good it shut them down. It had nothing to do with cheating. But I do feel badly for all the fans of baseball having to go through this horrible time. I’m sure Cora is regretting all his bad decisions, as he should be. As AJ goes, he’s too busy throwing everyone under the bus HE drove to think bout anything. The fans will finally forget n forgive, n every played n personal involve should think bout the fans n not just themselves. The ALL need to own it n move on.
A closer might help too.
Yankees have the same bad contract issues coming soon. Think Judge, Torres don’t want to get paid.
Whole lot of money tied up in strikeouts & can’t stay healthy. Good arms wear out and Cole will opt in just like Price. Hope they can get that ring without Beltran as a special advisor.
@Padresdumbasshandle Perdue is chicken company. It’s sad the Chargers leaving made you this crazy.
Big time spenders! They rake in the cash what nonsense! Plus 7 straight division titles soon to be 8 why pay more?
Verdugo, May and a couple prospects for one season of Betts? Lol
I’m pretty sure Betts would already be in LA If the Dodgers were willing to include May at all. Let alone May, Verdugo and others
Weren’t they cheaters in that world series year?
If the problem was the hitting, you might have a point. But the problem last year was the rotation.
No it was the hitting
The RS pitchers were HORRIFIC, good hitting was last yr.
Yes, they cheated. Period.
Riiiiiiight!! You have no clue. You are just a hater. Must be a Yankee fan with sour grapes.
stop crying because the Yankees cheated the Phillies out of a world series with all their ped players.
The Red Sox need to sell high on Betts and try to land 2 really elite pitching prospects and then they will probably grab one of the many arms that are going to be available next year and be right back in it in a difficult division.
shut up about the cheating. They’ve all done it since baseball was invented just like the Patriots do it in the NFL. All you Boston fans do well is cry!
Um…. speaking of PEDs, Manny, Big Poopy…. you live in a glass house!
Papi? You mean how it was later revealed he didn’t fail a test
Really? Has the Commissioner told you something the rest of the universe isn’t privy to?
Except for all the reports about MLB Not being able to find any evidence of the Red Sox cheating. But don’t let that distract you from being an ignoramus.
PID and centerfield cameras win championships
Alex Rodriguez! King of the PED’s
Bonds never failed a test either so what’s your point
And of course you have evidence?
Fox471 what are you going to say when the MLB investigation comes back and says we have no evidence of electronic sign stealing in 2018 and 2019? I’m almost possible that is what is going to happen.
The league made an example out of the Astros because they were so blatant and I’m guessing some of the corporate culture with the Astros. They just wanted to shut them down.
I’m guessing that the league will exonerate the Red Sox and so no evidence. Then send a memo basically saying we know that everyone were using electronic devices to steal signs and if you are caught doing it from here on out the punishment the Astros got is going to look like a walk in the park.
I could be wrong but this is just my guess at this point I’m not saying it’s right but they don’t want to penalize the entire league, yes your favorite team was doing some sort of electronic sign stealing as well, they just don’t won’t to open Pandora’s box.
@redsoxsuk1 in 2003 I believe 109 players tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. We still have no idea what they tested for those players could of been tested positive for over the counter supplements at that time we don’t know yes Ortiz name was leaked but after that he was tested many times and never tested positive. He was never implemented in the BALCO or Biogenesis. He was constantly tested and was never positive. The other thing is while Arod, Bonds, Clemens, Palmero etc… will probably not get in the Hall David Ortiz will. Nobody on the 2003 random test will be held out of the hall for that because we have no idea what the substances were if really any.
Now Manny Ramirez is a different story he was caught using many times and if you want to bring him up in the same light as Bonds, Clemens then you are right no defense for Ramirez. Just so know there were quite a few Yankees on that 2003 list as well.
Wrong
I’m almost possible?
And WIN
Thanks for the long post defending the Red Sox,,,I think. Nodded off for a bit. Anyhey, i was talking about the Astros cheating, which has been verified. I also mentioned in another post that the RS were superior in 2018. The Astros were not in 2017. If it is proven that the RS cheated in 2018, then I will revise my estimate of the RS.
If you are talking to me Ted, I am a Dodger fan. The Astros cheated. Period!
Xactly McMillan. The RS have not retired Rockets number cuz Peds even though he never used it in Boston, Ortiz was retired. I want Clemens number retired in Boston
You have no clue.
They didn’t in the playoffs. This has been reported. They still mopped up NYY, Hou and LA
Let’s see what gets released. MLB wants this swept under the rug as soon as possible. My guess is the firing of Cora beforehand will limit what they release. Such thought is based on how they quickly shot down the Altuve allegation. Hopefully, it’s a smoke screen and they are fully investigating 2019 as well. If the Sox did wrong, they should pay. That said, I believe the cheating was deeper that Houston and Boston.
Oh here we go. Giving yourself an excuse to push your narrative regardless of what’s found. How cowardly.
What MLB “wants” is to expose everything they can so people have confidence in the product.
I believe Altuve is guilty as sin. He said there was no buzzer but never said he was not cheating. He was receiving the pitches , how is what I would like to know.
How cowardly? Just the opposite. They should be investigating all alleged incidents which is why I’m hoping they are still investigating 2019 but my gut tells me they want to move on as fast as possible. The problem is coverups are worse that the incidents once exposed. Hopefully they learned from the past and are still investigating. Like PED use, some players got rewarded for cheating at the expense of others.
Riiighht?
Just like padres did all regular season
Yeah cause cheaters have such a good moral compass to stop when the games mean the most
If you believe that, let me sell you an oceanfront house in Montana. Beautiful scenery
Buzzer, of course. Come on. Altuve said, “ no buzzer.” So let me get this straight because a Known Cheater says, “no buzzer.” That clears it up for you? Really?
And Betts was on that team, if he got traded to the Dodgers if you were a player (after you gained his trust) you’d be asking the question, “what was going on over there?”.
Yeah, they were. Still got whupped!!!
Dodgers started as Atlantic, Grooms, Bridegrooms (just to clarify their earlier “Grooms” (of what?) name, the Superbas (did they forget the “r”?), the Robins and the Trolley Dodgers. Is that the proud tradition you Dodger fans keep bragging about, 6-132ers?
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, “what?”
They will surprise everyone this year. Loads of talent on that team still, and coming off a down year for almost everyone except Bogaerts, Erod, and Devers.
Who’s everyone who had a down year?
Oh I don’t know the entire pitching staff not names Eduardo Rodriguez. Yup that could of had something to do with the Red Sox poor performance last year. If the staff is healthy, that is a big if, the Red Sox will compete for the division. I’m not saying they will win it but they will be a nasty team to face. If there starters are not healthy and don’t pitch well this team will be exactly what they were last year a good offensive team that can’t pitch. Everything starts with that staff if healthy the bullpen is used less and thus more effective it all trickles down.
Couldn’t that be said about any team in mlb?
They still don’t have a pen or a closer and infield defense is still on the weaker side. If the starters stay healthy they’ll be better than last year but still not better than the Yankees or rays.
I appreciate your loyalty to the Red Sox, regardless of how delusional. Let us just wait for the MLB investigation of the Sox to conclude. Hopefully, All will be well. If not, let us make a pact that Bruin and the other Red Sox apologists will take a couple of months off this site and get the psychiatric help they need. Deal?
Hey Fox I am the first one to say when I am wrong so if I am I won’t take time off I will say I’m wrong and move on.
Agreed, Bruin. Got a little carried away and I apologize. Just a little steamed over the Astro cheating and maybe the RS. Jury is still out in Boston.
The RS bullpen was used so much their arms almost fell off. Any idea what players said the RS cheated? And why aren’t they speaking out li oh e Fiers did? He is to be commended.
Dude, they’re projected to win 90+ games. You can’t surprise people by being good when you’re supposed to be good. Of course they’re going to be good
I think no small part of the dismissive attitude stems from 3 things:
1) was 2018, or 2019, a truer picture of the performance ability sans replay room pitch sign education? Now, in the postseason the team cruised. But those 108 wins are, to some degree, tainted by that replay room. In 2019 they, by accounts, were NOT using the replay room, but also had injury issues to guys who were healthier in 2018.
So which was the real deal? I think somewhere inbetween, but, even in between was no lock on a wild card in 2019.
2) you got the whole cheating allegation thing that will have the potential to serve as a distraction for, at least the early going. As 2019 showed, a poor start can cripple you. Put aside the abysmal start to 2019 and make the team .500 in its first 30 games, you’re probaby in the postseason.
Guys may be distracted, OR, they may try to compensate and ‘prove them wrong’ about production in ’18 being aided by replay room. Know what happens when you try too hard? You lengthen you swing. You lose discipline and swing at garbage. You, in short, lose production.
3) nobody knows who the manager will be, and, mlb going slow on the investigation means even bench coaches under Cora are at risk of losing jobs during ST or the regular season. Nobody knows what the 2018 penalty would be, if any, but I for one assume its at least 50/50 Cora isn’t the only one implicated.
Those three things, combined with other teams closing the gap talent wise to push for wild cards, mean it’s much harder for boston with a yankees team that improved this offseason and a rays team that didn’t really weaken.
IRT #1, the only hitters that had interesting variances were Betts & Benni, to a lesser degree. Everyone else was well within the limits of normal variation.
And it’s also worth pointing out Betts was still excellent, just not on-another-planet excellent. Benny bulked up and tried to be more of a power hitter, which didn’t work for him last year – as evidenced by weaker results in K%, BB%, ISO, and SLG without a deterioration of his BABIP or major changes in his batted ball profile. He swung and chased a lot more trying to send more balls over the fence, and the added muscle he put on to try and help with that also made him a slower, worse base runner.
Word around town has been Benny Biceps has focused on slimming down this winter and aims to get back to his pre-2019 style of play, so I expect a big rebound from Benny with the good hair this season.
Hope you’re right DW04. I’ve been suggesting he should be traded since his value will never get higher. He will soon warrant big $$ if he has a rebound year.
Idk about trading him. If we can only keep 1 of him or Mookie, the obvious choice to me is keep Mookie and trade Benny. However if Mookie leaves, or especially if he gets traded, I’d like to see them keep Benny. He’s a fun guy to have on the team
Lolol! Are baseball fans really complaining about using the replay room to decode signs? GTFOH. Yankees were doing that from 2015-2017 and it was no doubt ubiquitous throughout the league as soon as video replay and dugout monitors became commonplace. Such utter ignorance, naïveté, and incredible disrespect from “fans” toward players…y’all really think these dudes are only good because they try to steal signs using the replay room rather than using a guy at 2nd base? Insane takes.
They are also 90% of the team that won 84 games and came in 3rd place.
Before 2019, all the pundits were glorifying your cheating team and hyping a potential back to back. Look how that turned out. I’ll take the yanks and rays over the garbage red sux who are hoping that price and Eovaldi don’t regress further and that mookie’s 10 war season wasn’t his career year
It’s not necessarily that the Sox are selling….they are trying to cut down the tax liability, also deal Betts for as much value as possible since he reportedly wants a contract in the range of Trout’s
The Red Sox have made it quite obvious they dont intend to sign Betts as a free agent so what does keeping him get you??? They are trying to sucker someone into taking Price and try to save that potential dual salaries of $60 mill this year and next….
How do you figure, when he’s not a FA? Blows my mind how you come up with that assessment.
Red Sox continued claims of wanting to get under the cap, the fact they fired their gm right after winning a ws, the fact mookie says he wants to test free agency. He has a lot of reasons to say that
Because they’ve written themselves off. Case in point the additions made or lack there of. An atrocious bullpen last year and nothing added. A starting rotation that was even worse and nothing added. In fact in order to add the bums they did they got rid of two young pitchers who did well in the minors and showed at least some promise. But they did add Mitchy 2 Bags. Hooray
I think people are simply going off what’s been said by John Henry and their fairly obvious willingness to listen to offers on a player like Betts. Personally I’m with you in the sense that this is largely the same RS team that sprinted to a WS title two years ago. But Henry has made it clear he wants to reset the tax and with Mookie they could lose payroll knowing 2020 is his last possible year in a Sox uniform. Personally I’d rather lose Price and his deal and significantly lessen the return just to shed that payroll. He needs out of Boston more than Gray needed out of NY. I’m not a fan of either team but it seems to me that guys either thrive there or implode their. The Red Sox are still good enough to contend this year without them and will be in a much better spot to compete going forward
A lot of them had career years when they one the series. Last year was more the norm.
Im with you 100% on people absurdly counting out this team but we cant ignore the narrative they want to get under this tax and re-set-
As is ,I surely think this team could win 90+ with good health- We shall see though after the trades –
If they get Mlb ready players back via trade like Joc Pollock/Mookie …..Maeda Stripling/Price I wouldnt count them out as well
Times are changing,though before we thought it was gracious to never trade your stars,now its looked at as a missed opportunity –
Not to mention boston wants to cut payroll
Not to mention boston wants to cut payroll
Because the Red Sox are being investigated for cheating on their WS run and looked horrible last year for large stretches of time.
you have no pitching, no manager, no sign stealing gimmick, no money and are about to trade your best player.
i wonder wether or not such a trade could be built around Verdugo. i know they are said to value him a lot, but their signing of Pollack and now being interested in Betts makes me really question how much faith they have in him. he’s looked ready for some time now, but they seem to continue to limit him.
I would think Verdugo is very likely to be included. Gonsolin would be a moveable piece as would Ruiz or Downs with the Dodgers strength in the minors being pitching, catching, and middle infield depth.
As a RS fan, I like all three guys. However, Verdugo’s injuries are concerning.
I would not trade Downs- kid is going to be a star.
Darkside. Verdugo was a starter until he got injured. He was only limited due to injury.
Very likely, AJ Pollock gets included if a deal happened to offset some of David Price’s salary. I can also see Joc Pederson being included along with a couple prospects not named Lux or May.
As a Dodger fan, I’d rather see the team do a deal with the Indians for Lindor and possibly Clevinger than take on a rental in Betts who they could just sign after the 2020 season if they wanted.
Cleveland has no reason to trade Clevinger as he has 3 years of control and is priced cheaply for 2020. The Dodgers have been unwilling to pay Cleveland’s price for Lindor so that is not likely to happen either.
Red Sox wouldn’t want Joc Pederson. They’d only want controllable players which Joc is not.
Because 3 team deals never happen
They will still compete. Their motivations lie in getting under the threshold.
No if they trade Betts his production just has to be replaced. Doing that will cost a lot more than the money they save by trading him.
Verdugo put up a 3.1 bWAR in only 343 non platoon AB’s last yr before he got hurt. It was his age 23 rookie season and he has 5 yrs of control left.
I love the idea of adding Betts to the dodger OF but the dodgers would be absolute fools to trade 5 yrs of Verdugo for 1 yr of Betts.
Because Verdugo is that good.
Spoiler, la has been trying to trade Verdugo for years
No, actually, the Dodgers have refused to trade Verdugo. Two years ago, every possible trading partner wanted Verdugo. Still a Dodger.
You couldn’t be more wrong. La has wanted to get rid of him for years but attitude questions and lack of power made teams wary.
Stop making stuff up
@Csense
Do you honestly think the dodgers want to trade 5 years of Verdugo for 1 year of Betts?
They’d do it straight up in a heartbeat
It’s money, prices deal, the young pitcher(s) going back. It’s not verdugo holding this up. They have wanted him gone for years and no one would take him in a big deal. He’s still talented. But FO aren’t his fan imo
I disagree. I think the dodgers were willing to move Verdugo last offseason for the right type of return. I think that’s changed after the season he just put up. I also think the attitude stuff was overblown and that the team was more than happy with his attitude this past season.
All of that aside…I think it would be terribly shortsighted to trade 5 yrs of Verdugo for 1yr of Betts and I think it’s not a Friedman type of move.
They’ve been trying to trade Verdugo since the Camelback incident, think that was 2017
Then they kept him in AAA for an entire year when he was ready in 18, and only in 19 when it was impossible to justify AAA did he make the roster.
He’s very talented. And young, and cheap. But he wasn’t drafted by this FO and they would deal him- but they also know he’s valuable and won’t give him away
I think it’s quite likely he’s been a constant name in trade talks this offseason for Bryant, Lindor, Betts etc
I like Verdugo. I feel like he could be the pure contact leadoff hitter the Dodgers have lacked since Dee Gordon or even farther back, Brett Butler. However all signs have pointed to Verdugo’s back being in worse shape than initially thought since he is unable to do “baseball activities.”
If he needs to be part of a Betts trade, I’d reluctantly do it. Kershaw isn’t getting any younger, this may be Turner’s last year in Dodger blue, Kenley is coming off a down year and may be not be able to take the season work load of close games which will extend into the playoffs and the rotation is going to have to rely on rookies in 2020. It’s hard to wait for Verdugo to get healthy when Pollock, who was signed to be a starter, is already a liability in this area.
Betts will theoretically augment the offense to hopefully take pressure off Kenley and the bullpen. If he does what he’s supposed to do, Friedman & Nerd Co. will offer him something in the neighborhood of what he’s seeking and if it’s not acceptable, the Dodgers FO will start plotting draft pick compensation.
Just imagine a lineup with Betts, Bellinger, Muncy, Seager and Turner. It would only be for a guaranteed year, but it would provide them with a better shot.
I’m not against trading for Betts. Im all for it. I’m just against using Verdugo to do it. I just can’t get behind trading 5 yrs of him for 1 yr of Betts when we have so many other ways to pay for a Betts trade.
Now, you said to imagine the lineup with Betts in it. I say imagine the dodger OF with Bellinger, Betts and Verdugo in it. That would easily be the best defensive OF in baseball and if last yr wasn’t a fluke by Verdugo then I’d go so far as to say it would be the best overall OF baseball.
Interesting. Baseball Trade Values says Betts + Price for an org filler favors the Red Sox. Not sure I agree but I do think that if the Dodgers want to take Price’s contract off Boston’s hands they can probably get Betts without giving up anything major.
Verdugo is a productive player. I like him. I just worry about his back They are better with him in the lineup but, how long can the Dodgers wait for him to get healthy?
@Neuro
The dodgers have plenty of depth to wait for Verdugo to get healthy. Especially if they trade for Betts. I actually think a big reason to keep Verdugo is because of his 5 yrs of control. Pederson, Betts & Kike are all free agents after this year and resigning Betts is certainly not a guarantee.
They do have a good history about trades, Mookie may love it in t he below key baseball atmosphere unlike us rabid Boston baseball fans. LA has the money to pay Mookie n they would have a terrific star on their team. I have faith Bloom will get a good pkg back for him n good riddance Price who will do well possibly taking LA over the top in baseball! It’s gonna be a sad n happy day in RS nation.
Pasha don’t feel bad. LA isn’t going to trade away top quality AND take on Price’s awful contract.
Guarantee they do if this actually goes through. Yes, Price’s contract is bad but he’s still a decent mid rotation arm who can be benefited getting out of the AL East. Not to mention, Mookie is one of the best players in the game. Ruiz, Goose and Pollack for Mookie and Price – Done deal.
He’s a long relief arm and barely a starter at this point
Hey Now ! Add Joc and thats exactly what I came up with yesterday
Betts can handle the Boston fans just fine. That has nothing to do with his desires. He is big money hunting pure and simple.
Nobody knows what Betts is thinking, he may have another destination in mind.
The destination he wants, by his own admission, is a bidding war in free agency. So, yeah, he’s big money hunting.
Red Sox offered 10/300 and he countered with 12/420. He wants the money. It’s not about where it’s about how much.
Maybe because they shouldn’t know what pitch is coming this year?
Betts has been consistently great for about half a decade now. he was mashing well before Cora came to Boston.
He did have a noticeable dropoff from ’18 (10.9 WAR) to ’19 (6.8 WAR). That’s a 4.1 WAR drop. Hard to ignore, unless you’re biased.
Yeah, seems like he’s about a 7 WAR guy now and 18 was an outlier, cheating or not. Even 2016’s 8.3 is partially carried by a ridiculous 2.9 dWAR which is more of an example that the analytics people are still figuring out how to value defense than anything else.
Of course, 7 WAR is still great.
Really just makes 18 look like a blip, because he’s been closer to a 6-7 win guy most of his time..
Now is that why he had the drop off? I can’t say
I’m in the show me camp. I don’t believe Boston will be able to trade Price and Betts and get high value pieces back. Boston wants value back and salary relief. I don’t see that happening.
I agree
Nobody is taking on Price, he will have to show he is healthy, as for Betts now is the time to get the best return for him.
Yeah because bad contracts are never traded in baseball!
Oh wait
I still think Boston should keep Betts and trade Price, JDM, or even Sale. Jmo
Its about the return Bob. Trading Price gets Boston next to nothing.. unless they will eat $50M or more. Sale with the injury concerns circling him right now, is a risky proposition for other teams to consider. JDM is limited to AL teams at this age – Plus his option to opt out if he does have a good year… and ability to stay and collect if he has a bad one means his worth really isn’t great as well.
You assume those guys have much value… they don’t
Still not sure what the overall benefit is for a one year rental? Betts is a truly gifted player and would look great in Dodger Blue. But do the Dodgers need another outfielder? No, not for one year and some valuable prospects.
The last time that the Dodgers won a World Series, Ronald Reagan was president and Donald Trump was excited to host a Mike Tyson (34-0) – Michael Spinks (31-0) fight.
If Betts/Price help lead the Dodgers to a title, are you going to be upset that they traded Verdugo, Ruiz or Downs and a pitching prospect? The Dodgers have duplicate prospects at all of those positions and some of them will very likely be busts.
The Sox will pay down some of the Price contract ($5-$10 MM per year) and the Dodgers will (very likely) keep Lux and May.
The Red Sox traded Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Alex Basabe and Victor Diaz for 3 years of a cheap Chris Sale contract. The Red Sox won the World Series and I don’t regret the Sox making that trade one bit.
It’s not about “another outfielder” it’s about acquiring a star.
For ONE year! Will not happen, Puig.
Verdugo, Ruiz or Downs and a pitching prospect will most likely also include AJ Pollock and very likely Joe Pederson in order to offset some of the Betts/Price salary.
Pretty much agree with your analysis surefire, with the exception of Verdugo. Dodgers have 5 more years of control with Verdugo and he is every bit as good as people say. Remember, one year of Betts. One! Not happening with Verdugo.
That’s the perfect asset for Boston to covet and la to give up………..
I’d rather keep the farm and win 100 games every year.
@surefire
I don’t think the dodgers would trade 5 yrs of Verdugo straight up for 1 yr of Betts but you think the dodgers should trade Verdugo, Downs or Ruiz, a pitching prospect and take price at a well above market rate? That’s the price for 2 yrs of Betts. Not one.
IMO…adding Price to the deal at 22m per would reduce the return for Betts but at the very least it certainly wouldn’t add to it.
Im well aware that the sox will not give Betts away for free but Verdugo is projected to provide way too much future value to trade away for 1 yr of Betts.
Dodgers fan here. We have tremendous depth, but it will only take us so far. The Front Office has spent years putting us in a position to do just this. We can get Betts and take on Price because of their room under the luxury tax OR we could give up prospect depth for Mookie. We can do both and still be in a situation all other 29 teams would envy. This is the type of move we have to make, supplementing a great roster with great depth by adding a superstar player.
Where’s the poll: “does LA ask Boston to include the 2018 WS trophy in a trade?”
Serious? Nah… but it’d be a pretty funny ask if done with humor/a laugh and not exactly insulting to bloom since he wasn’t there for it all.
On the serious side, There seems to be a bit of a groundswell for removing the Astros as WS winners in 2017. League cannot just give the championship to the Dodgers and, by all accounts, they want to win on the field. Probably or definitely, nothing will come of it. The RS are a different issue. They appeared to be a superior team in 2018 and the league is still investigating.
The Dodgers are too smart to trade quality prospects AND take on that awful Price contract. If this trade happens Boston will likely receive lesser prospects. Or Polluck and one top prospect.
I don’t think pollack would be in, that doesn’t get Boston under the threshold. If they’re not trying to get under the tax then why would they even trade betts. Just hold and trade at the deadline if they’re out of it, the return won’t be that much less
Betts and Price for Pollock and prospects easily gets Boston under the threshold.
Oh I see, you mean a trade of betts and price for pollack and prospects. Thought it was just betts for pollack and prospects
Price aav 32 and Betts 27 = 59 million off the current payroll of 221 million would make 2020 team salary 262 million. Would make 46 million under the cap then and probably 12 million cash to Dodgers so 30 million under the cap.
I’d rather keep Price than add Pollock into the equation. He’s pretty much a LF now, which doesn’t fit our current alignment. And he can’t stay on the field, which is the bigger concern. His contract is also heavily backloaded, making it a $51M/3. His contract, at this point, might be more under-water than Price.
I heard yesterday in here Pollock was one of the best Of’ers in the game !!
Thanks Joe
@Joe
Recheck that source on his contract. According to spotrac he’s owed 47m cash over 4 years.
His original deal was 5 yrs 60m
His CBT number is 12m per
2019 12m signing bonus and 1m base
2020 12m
2021 15m
2022 10m(player option)
2023 10m(player option)
*One site had his numbers wrong because they didn’t realize his signing bonus was paid all up front.
As for his contract being more underwater than price…it’s not even close.
If 1 WAR is worth 9.5m then pollock would only have to produce 5 WAR over the next 4 yrs to pay for the 48m left on his contract. Those 4 yrs cover his age 32-35 seasons.
Price on the other hand would need to produce 10.1 WAR in just 3 seasons to cover the 96m left on his contract
Those 3 seasons would be his age 34-36 seasons.
I’ll take pollock’s contract at 4 yr 12m per over price’s at 3 yr 32m per all day long.
Pollock should not start over Joc, Bellinger or Verdugo. At least Price would be in a rotation. Pollock is an expensive 4th OF on a very good team. THAT is why his contract is underwater.
I thought his named was spelled “Pullikk.”
Agreed, the Dodgers are not trading for Price, he is damaged goods. Now Betts that’s another story, the Dodgers need him to put them over the top.
If Betts goes to LA in a deal involving Verdugo… who plays CF for the Dodgers?
I would say Pollack and Pedersen in a platoon
Pederson can no longer play CF
Did I miss something? What have you seen or heard that suggests Pederson can no longer play CF?
You even got this fella named Bellinger that can play CF also.
Either Betts or Bellinger can play CF. Betts certainly has the range, and would likely be playing CF for the RS except for JBJ,
Bellinger will stick there no matter what.
puigpower… Hope so. He looked terrific in both RF & CF. Prefer he play CF.
Bellinger or Betts can both play CF at the gold glove level. Dodger could then win gold glove in RF and CF.
Betts plays CF
Betts is an elite RF, but I think Bellinger would be a better CF.
Bellinger or Betts plays CF.
The Dodgers have 7 players they use in the outfield they can part with 2 and still be in a better spot than 80% of the teams….
Dodgers are best team in college basketball. They make the final 4 every year
Like 2019?
The inflection point? So the second derivative is approaching zero. Oh the calculus.
Everybody has their limits.
Price and Betts would put dodgers way over cap unless Boston ate like 1/2 of price salary which makes sense to do. Price at 1/2 his salary is good value for a playoff contender.
So Betts/price and 1/2 price salary for verdugo Ruiz and Urías ? Red Sox will jump all over that but that’s a steep price to pay
If I leave now, I can be in Boston in 4 hours, and can get Betts & Price into LA 40 hours, with some pharmaceutical assistance. And a Mustang.
And, while it sounds real steep, if you want a rational, Verdugo is hurt, Ruiz had an off year, and Urias already has had one TJS. So there are question marks, but also an immense amount of talent.
Urias also has a domestic violence issue this past season.
LA is at just over $178 million this year. If they take on Betts they will be just over $205 million. I kinda doubt they will take on Price and go $29 million+ over the cap. Boston taking on half of Price’s salary does not come close to keeping LA under the cap.
1/2 of Price and taking Pollock gets them under.
Dodgers seem to be okay going over the luxury tax this year if the deal is right. Betts is a good one year rental. Problem is that they may need to still find a #2 pitcher mid season. The three biggest needs for the Dodgers right now are a #2 starter, additional bullpen arm, and an elite bat that boosts the starting lineup offense. They have the best depth in baseball right now but may need to eat into that to get the best 25 man roster for the playoffs.
Dodgers need a #2 pitcher? Cannot wait to hear the reasoning behind that comment.
I guess you don’t watch playoff baseball. It’s all about your top 3 starting pitchers, not your five man rotation. You need a good five man rotation to get you to the playoffs but Washington’s top 3 SPs were better than the Dodgers and so not surprising that they won the series and WS. You think Clayton Kershaw is a #2? My guess he will be an above average #3 this year possibly average #3.
Wondering how the Chaim Bloom/Andrew Friedman dynamic come into play.
I’d guess helpful. They know how each other thinks, and what they value. I doubt Bloom asks for any players that are in the LAD short-term future, and Friedman can calculate the RS payroll issues.
It’s one of the reasons why SD might be a better target. Preller might be a bit jumpier.
Good thought.
If Boston eats half of Price’s deal, then his salary becomes fair given the current market. I still wouldn’t give up top prospects for one year of a guy determined to test free agency, though, not when I can just buy him next year at the cost of a draft pick and cash.
Boston take back AJ Pollock and his $12M AAV, and either Joe Kelly ($8.3M), or Kiké Hernandez ($5.9M), or Maeda ($3M + incentives) and they will not have to pay any of Price’s contract..
Now you are in the ballpark
Pollack/Hernandez/Ruiz/AA starter and Boston is clear Betts and Price
Boy I was getting killed yesterday for suggesting this….. guess when the site backs you you get a little cred…..my bad for being early to the party-
I think this makes a whole lot of sense for LAD – They use money as the ultimate FLEX here-
Joc Pollock def leave in this sitch – Mookie Price back those are the main bones
Doubtful on Pollock, Kelly. Maybe Hernandez (but I hope not). Pederson, more likely, and Maeda even more likely. Maeda’s contract has significant surplus value (with bonuses) and would easily negate any return in prospects unless Boston kicked in a bunch of cash. I’m thinking Pederson, Maeda, plus a solid prospect (Downs, Ruiz?) for Betts, Price, and cash.
Maeda isn’t going anywhere. His contract is a dream for the Dodgers. He’s on a great deal and often his incentives don’t get reached because the Dodgers use him in the bullpen later in the season.
Gonsolin or May can step into the rotation, replace Maeda at league minimum, and the Dodgers don’t skip a beat. Won’t matter how great his contract is if he’s not good enough to start a game in October.
Which the player has already said he dislikes not so much because it costs him (though that has to be a factor) but also because he sees himself as a starter. With the recent signings and the kids coming up, his position in the rotation is even more tenuous than before. That “dream contract” could turn into a nightmare if the player is openly unhappy about how he’s being used, but it’s also a very nice trade chip.
It doesn’t matter what Maeda thinks. He has been spotty as a starter and the only reason why he’s effective in the post-season is that Roberts gets him in ideal righty versus righty matchups to throw the slider and the short relief stints allows him to throw harder.. Until he improves as a starter/against lefties he’s always a fringe #6 starter. Good option to have when someone goes down though.
If the Sox don’t take Pollock they’ll have to kick back a lot of cash and/or take a lot less back in return. Price is not worth close to the $32mm per year for the next three years. They still have to pay Kersh $31mm plus for the next two years. I don’t see this deal getting done unless Sox take back Pollock and/or cash to pay Price. I don’t think Maeda is worht as much as you think. Yes, team friendly contract, but until he proves that he’s more effective as a starter all he is a good deal. Unless the Sox are specifically asking for Joc, I would keep him. He has been very productive and you’re not likely going to get much trade value out of him.
It’s easy as a fan to say what a player thinks doesn’t matter, but it sure does matter to both the player and the organization. Maeda is who he is as a pitcher, he isn’t going to change suddenly because someone thinks he ought to change. Someone who can pitch to a 3.71 FIP and a 1.15 WHIP over four seasons isn’t fringe, he’d be right in the middle of most rotations, which is exactly where he’s been with the Dodgers over that time. The problem is the Dodgers have made that a very crowded place, even more so this year than before. If the Dodgers end up with Price, Maeda is the clear odd man out. Fortunately his contract is highly marketable.
Also, the purpose of including Pederson in a trade that includes Price is salary offset, and not because Pederson isn’t useful, but because he is useful. Again, a marketable asset with substantial excess contract value. And again, you are assuming Pollock’s contract is deeply under water. It really isn’t. But I do agree that if the Dodgers take Price in a trade they’d need to see a pretty significant amount of cash. That contract is deeply under water.
The. Red. Sox. Don’t. Want. Joc. Pederson.
Salary offset means the player is negative value. If Pederson were negative value he would have been non-tendered. The Dodgers will not be including him in any trade as a “salary offset” and the Red Sox have no use for him if they trade Mookie.
No, it doesn’t mean that at all. It means the Dodgers have to dispose of some salary in any deal if they want to stay under the CBT. I thought that was already obvious. Now it is.
A 3.71 FIP is above average, which for a good team’s rotation that equates to a #4 starter at best and more likely a #5 starter. There are a lot of guys on the Dodgers who could do that, plus provide you with more upside. So yeah, I would consider him a #6 starter on the Dodgers. Fringe. I wouldn’t mind dealing Maeda except that he can be more effective out of the pen in the playoffs and yes the contract is friendly.
If the Red Sox are not going to compete for a WS in 2020 what is the point of getting Pederson? Sure, to prevent a complete collapse but they’re better off getting more youngsters. If they want an MLB asset they should try to get one that gives them at least 2 years of control.
If they wanted to dispose of Joc’s salary they would have non-tendered him.
If the Red Sox trade Mookie then Joc is a negative for them.
MLB average was a 4.51 FIP. 3.71 is substantially better than average. Average is a #3 starter.
The Dodgers don’t have to “dispose” of any salary to stay under the luxury tax. They are at $174 million according to Cots Baseball Contracts.
Add $27 million for Betts and they are still well under $208 million.
Lmfao. Winning teams don’t non tender a corner OF with a 850 OPS and 36 bombs in 550 at bats
No wonder Boston sucks with that logic
Lmfao. Winning teams don’t non tender a corner OF with a 850 OPS and 36 bombs in 550 at bats
No wonder Boston sucks with that logic
Not a Red Sox fan and my comment was in response to BlueSkies_LA saying that the Dodgers have to trade Joc to stay under the luxury tax threshold. If they were that desperate to get rid of him (which they are not) then non-tendering him was the simple solution. In any event the Red Sox have zero use for him if they trade Betts.
I know you don’t like this but:
Betts 2019: 6.8 bwar
Verdugo+ Joc 2019? 6.4
It’s a negligible gap and would be further closed with young mlb ready pitching going into bos rotation
They can trade Betts and be in a similar spot. Their pitching it going to decide the year not Betts
O. K. Thanks. For. Letting. Us. Know. Always. Good. To. Talk. To. Someone. In. The. Know.
Of course you have sources, Cupcake.
@Commonsenseslapsyou…
If trading Verdugo + Joc for Betts wouldn’t make the Red Sox any worse in 2020 (and by extension, wouldn’t make the Dodgers any better in 2020), would put both teams in a similar spot for 2020 as you say and would cost the Dodgers more money, not to mention Verdugo being controlled through 2024 and any other prospects the Red Sox get being controlled even longer than that, why would the Dodgers even consider making that trade? When you make a trade, you want to either make the team better now or make the team better later. By your logic the Dodgers should make their team worse both now AND later.
Are you this dense or just like to be annoying?
Clearly, Betts is the better individual player. He’s also making 27M this year
Joc/Verdugo, combined, we a similar value on the field, for 1/3 the cost for 2020(Joc ~9M, Verdugo 500k)
Then, Boston adds Prices 32M a year. And LA adds additional prospects, likely young pitching
It’s really not hard. Dustin May can put up a 4.20 era that price put up in 2020 for 500K. LA doesn’t need Price. But Boston doesn’t want to pay him to be a mediocre 30M player
LA is lowering the cost of talent by eating money, in David price.
It doesn’t mean Betts isn’t better than either Verdugo or Joc Separately- of course he is. but together, the value is similar, the cost is 1/3, and they’re clearing 30M for the next 2 additional years….. maybe to sign Betts again next year. That’s what big market clubs do
ATM, they’d be stuck with Price and watch Betts leave. Maybe a one year separation opens up the door for a 6 year reunion
Still gonna complain? Prolly, that’s all you do here
Again, you are asking the Dodgers to make their team worse and more expensive both in 2020 and for the next several years after that. Why would they do that?
First comment got flagged. Sorry mods. Will remove swear word but want to keep convo going. Eventually this will be a double comment sorry
____
Worse in 2020? You’re missing the point not me
The dodgers are at a position of roster building that they are looking to improve individual roster spots. The fact they can (in theory) get Verdugo+Joc production for one spot instead of 2 spots on the 26 man roster. Then, they essentially gain 2 spots from last years 25 man. The new 26th, plus the idea of condensing Verdugo/Joc into Betts
They’re willing to be worse in 2021 because they aren’t worried about 2021. They could resign Betts. There also a possibility by then Lux is established and they’re not worse off in total. We have 6 or more competent MLB OFers and more in the minors.
La is dealing from a depth position. But that doesn’t mean the players aren’t valuable. Again, Boston gains 4 more years of Verdugo control, plus 60M gone this year to reset tax.. then 30M more the next 2… plus whatever prospect value as well. And not have wil Myers for 3 years
They very well could be trading Mookie and Price this year to resign Betts next year. Plus Get Verdugo, young pitching for 6 years per player, prolly another prospect, and a 35 HR RH bat for 2020. Boston isn’t in a spot where every roster spot is priceless. They can afford to spread the value of Betts on 2 spots, and then gain all that surplus value+ freed up money in the future. There’s value in all of that. There’s wins for both sides here. You’re just ignoring them
@koamalu: If Price is part of the deal then yes the Dodgers would have to subtract somewhere unless the Red Sox were willing to eat around $80M. And that seems pretty unlikely to me.
@jimthegoat. Sometimes a team doesn’t get everything they could possibly want in a trade. Almost never in fact. So if the Red Sox want to erase around $125M off their books they might just have to do something that isn’t exactly their heart’s desire. Also, non-tendering Pederson makes zero sense. You don’t do that with a player with surplus value, which Pederson definitely has. What you do is tender and work to capture some of that surplus value in a trade.
@BlueSkies_LA…
“Sometimes a team doesn’t get everything they could possibly want in a trade. Almost never in fact. So if the Red Sox want to erase around $125M off their books they might just have to do something that isn’t exactly their heart’s desire.”
Has absolutely nothing to do with my comment.
“Also, non-tendering Pederson makes zero sense. You don’t do that with a player with surplus value, which Pederson definitely has.”
If that’s the case then why would the Dodgers insist on Boston taking him in a Betts trade? The Red Sox would have no need for Pederson if they trade Betts so they aren’t going to take him in lieu of more/better prospects.
“What you do is tender and work to capture some of that surplus value in a trade.”
Yeah, with someone who is trying to contend in 2020 and could actually use a rental outfielder who mashes righties (ie: not the Red Sox)
Sorry, this is just getting too weird.
@Commonsenseslapsyou…
“First comment got flagged. Sorry mods. Will remove swear word but want to keep convo going. Eventually this will be a double comment sorry”
Pending comments never ever get approved on this site.
“Worse in 2020? You’re missing the point not me”
Yeah. You said that trading Betts for Verdugo, Pederson and major league ready pitching will make the Red Sox better in 2020. By extension, that means it would make the Dodgers worse in 2020.
“The dodgers are at a position of roster building that they are looking to improve individual roster spots. The fact they can (in theory) get Verdugo+Joc production for one spot instead of 2 spots on the 26 man roster. Then, they essentially gain 2 spots from last years 25 man. The new 26th, plus the idea of condensing Verdugo/Joc into Betts”
The point is that the Dodgers would be trading a bunch of prospects and adding a bunch of $ for no net gain because Verdugo and Pederson could have produced the same number of wins as Betts if they had just kept them. By your logic, it would make more sense to just roll with Verdugo and Pederson. And that doesn’t even take into account the remaining years of control that Verdugo and their pitching prospects have and the fact that by not adding Price, they can spend their money elsewhere for the next 3 seasons.
So by not making the trade the Dodgers would win the same # of games in 2020 and would be better set up for all the years after that.
“Boston isn’t in a spot where every roster spot is priceless.”
Au contraire every roster spot is MORE important to them than it is to LA. They have more ground to make up if they want to make the playoffs than LA does. So dividing Betts’ production up into two roster spots robs them of that new 26 spots that everyone else will be using to add more WAR instead of the same amount. So no, this trade will not help the Red Sox contend at all. And consequently, they have no use for Joc Pederson.
“There’s wins for both sides here.”
Nope. There is no way this trade can be an immediate win for both teams. It can only help one of their chances of contending in 2020, not both. If it doesn’t help the Dodgers’ chances of contending, why would they make it? If it doesn’t help the Red Sox’s chances of contending, then all adding Pederson does is cost money and hurt their draft position.
And as far as 2021 and beyond go, it is clearly a win for the Red Sox and the Red Sox alone.
Lmfao. You’re so stuck on your opinion you won’t listen to basic logic
Talking WAR in 19: Joc+Verdugo= ~Betts
So Betts+ extra spot= more than just Joc/Verdugo. That’s the dodgers gain. That extra spot of value. If it’s a 3 win player, it’s 10 wins in 2 spots, not ~6 from Joc+Verdugo
You quoted my whole post but ignored that point. Solid job bud
They don’t care about 2021 value in this trade. Stop bringing it up. It’s not the point
The dodgers gain in 2020 by having Betts+ another player’s value, instead of Verdugo and Joc in those 2 spots
Boston maintains a similar war range, if the pitching is good they’d compete. If it’s not, they have a July trade piece. And again, they gain flexibility to possibly resign Betts in FA that they otherwise didn’t have with Price still in town
I also think it’s fully possible Joc is flipped as part of a 3 way, but also easily plausible Boston tries to compete while getting under the line. If it works, great. If not, they got under the line and gained multiple young pieces
Dodgers will forgo long term value for short term gain. Joc nor Verdugo will likely be a 7 win player Betts is, alone. So they gain that second spot value. Otherwise, those 3 extra wins are stuck at AAA
A deal I’d expect one rendition Joc, Verdugo, 1-2 young MLB ready Pitchers, May or Gonsolin is one fersure, maybe another top 100 prospect (LA has 7 per mlb.com..)
For Betts and Price.
The more money Boston sends, the Better those 3 prospects are
Try to read the whole post before shaking your head and screaming never. It’s multi faceted, but can be successful, because LA is trading talent for cash. All can win when you have both moving
“Lmfao. You’re so stuck on your opinion you won’t listen to basic logic”
Funny. We were part of the same conversation yet view the outcome differently.
“Talking WAR in 19: Joc+Verdugo= ~Betts”
Correct
“So Betts+ extra spot= more than just Joc/Verdugo. That’s the dodgers gain. That extra spot of value. If it’s a 3 win player, it’s 10 wins in 2 spots, not ~6 from Joc+Verdugo”
Yes and that is also what the Red Sox lose. They lose that new 26th roster spot that they could have used to add someone of value. Meanwhile, all the other teams, including teams that they would theoretically be competing with for a Wild Card spot, use that roster spot to make their teams better while the Red Sox, who already finished 12 games back of the 2nd wild card in 2019, use it to run in place.
“They don’t care about 2021 value in this trade. Stop bringing it up. It’s not the point”
I know that but they aren’t going to give up future value unless they get back immediate value which means the Red Sox are losing immediate value.
“The dodgers gain in 2020 by having Betts+ another player’s value, instead of Verdugo and Joc in those 2 spots ”
And the Red Sox lose in 2020 by having Verdugo + Joc in those two spots rather than Betts + another player’s value.
“Boston maintains a similar war range,”
While all the teams around them improve.
“if the pitching is good they’d compete.”
The pitching would have to be 12 extra WAR good for that to happen. Not likely.
If it’s not, they have a July trade piece.”
Who won’t have nearly as much value as he does now because 2/3 of his remaining control will be flushed down the drain and he can’t be QO’d.
“And again, they gain flexibility to possibly resign Betts in FA that they otherwise didn’t have with Price still in town”
That doesn’t help them in 2020.
“I also think it’s fully possible Joc is flipped as part of a 3 way”
That’s the only way it makes sense.
“but also easily plausible Boston tries to compete while getting under the line.”
Narrator: It won’t work
“Dodgers will forgo long term value for short term gain.”
Yes but their short term win doesn’t come without another team incurring a short term loss. That team is the Red Sox, who don’t have a strong enough roster to withstand that loss and still contend.
It’s hard to take you seriously when you talk out of both sides of your mouth. First you try to argue that trading Betts for Pederson and Verdugo won’t hurt the Red Sox’s immediate chances of contending because they combined for about the same amount of WAR as Betts. But then when I bring up that by your logic, it won’t help the Dodgers’ immediate chances of contending either, you backpedal and bring up the extra roster spot.
In the end, no matter how you try to cut it, slice it, dice it, bop it, pull it, twist it, spin it or flick it, there is no way for Boston to trade Betts and make themselves better in 2020. And certainly not while trading with a smart general manager like Andrew Friedman. So if the Red Sox are punting on 2020 by trading Betts, why half-ace it by also trading for another rental player in Pederson?
1. Boston doesn’t have a 3 WAR player in aaa like La does. Boston is drowning in overpriced vets and the system stalling is why they are in this position of needing/wanting to clear money. La has the depth Boston doesn’t. Joc or Verdugo are better than anyone on the 2019 Boston bench
“
I know that but they aren’t going to give up future value unless they get back immediate value which means the Red Sox are losing immediate value“
Here is your logical split from me. Just because Boston is gaining value from a trade doesn’t mean la is losing value. Look, price may be better in LA than he’d ever be in Boston. But Boston is trading the 2 war pitcher Price is for them. If he’s a 4 WAR pitcher in LA, you can’t say Boston lost 2 potential war. They were never going to get it
And again it goes back to the first point. Boston doesn’t have 26 guys better than Joc or Verdugo. So they make Boston better as a roster.
You are saying Boston is losing something they can’t create from their own system. They aren’t losing the 26th man when both Joc and Verdugo are better than said 26th man.
Funny you insult me at the end because you’re too stubborn to view all impacts of a trade. BS I’m talking out both sides. Everyone but 4 of you special posters agree with me!
Boston can’t match up with LA 26 deep, so how the trade impacts each team.. and subsequently adds value to the 2020 product, and beyond, is different
It’s plausible Joc, Verdugo, Gonsolin, Ruiz, another pitcher have more 2020 WAR than Betts and Price. Unlikely I’d say, but possible. But LA wasn’t going to use 4 or even all 5 of those guys in 2020. We have better options. Boston is playing for 2020 but also to figure out the future. You’re just stubborn
If la adds 15 WAR to Boston among 5 players, and gains 12 WAR from just 2 slots, both teams can come out ahead. La improve the per roster spot ratio, Boston improves its depth of quality big leaguers
You refuse to acknowledge the rest of the rosters around these players. Compared to LA, Boston needs a lot of work. They can add 5 MLB pieces, and gain more value than Price and Betts
“Boston doesn’t have a 3 WAR player in aaa like La does. Boston is drowning in overpriced vets and the system stalling is why they are in this position of needing/wanting to clear money. La has the depth Boston doesn’t. Joc or Verdugo are better than anyone on the 2019 Boston bench”
The point is they would be using their new 26th roster spot to run in place while everyone else (including teams that they will have to leapfrog to get a Wild Card spot) use it to add value. That helps the Red Sox… how?
“Here is your logical split from me. Just because Boston is gaining value from a trade doesn’t mean la is losing value.”
Course it does. Every bit of value you get from a trade is a bit of value that the other team doesn’t get.
“Look, price may be better in LA than he’d ever be in Boston. But Boston is trading the 2 war pitcher Price is for them. If he’s a 4 WAR pitcher in LA, you can’t say Boston lost 2 potential war. They were never going to get it”
That’s all a hypothetical and irrelevant to the topic at hand.
“And again it goes back to the first point. Boston doesn’t have 26 guys better than Joc or Verdugo. So they make Boston better as a roster.”
No, they make Boston the same as a roster while all the other teams get better.
“You are saying Boston is losing something they can’t create from their own system. They aren’t losing the 26th man when both Joc and Verdugo are better than said 26th man.”
But Betts and said 26th man are better than Joc and Verdugo.
“Funny you insult me at the end because you’re too stubborn to view all impacts of a trade. BS I’m talking out both sides. Everyone but 4 of you special posters agree with me!”
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You try to rationalize the trade that it doesn’t hurt Boston’s odds of contending but then when I point out that that means it doesn’t help LA you backpedal and start explaining why it actually does benefit LA, a benefit that Boston now no longer receives.
“Boston can’t match up with LA 26 deep, so how the trade impacts each team.. and subsequently adds value to the 2020 product, and beyond, is different”
They don’t have to match up with LA 26 deep. There is still no way to trade Betts and make the team better for 2020. All the seasons after, sure. But not 2020.
“It’s plausible Joc, Verdugo, Gonsolin, Ruiz, another pitcher have more 2020 WAR than Betts and Price. Unlikely I’d say, but possible. But LA wasn’t going to use 4 or even all 5 of those guys in 2020. We have better options.”
Again, if that is the case, why would a smart GM like Andrew Friedman trade all of that for Betts and Price? He’d be making his team worse both now and later. That’s a good way to get yourself fired as a GM.
“Boston is playing for 2020 but also to figure out the future.”
Bull. A team that is playing for 2020 wouldn’t trade Mookie Betts. They wouldn’t DARE!
“You’re just stubborn”
You misspelled “informed.”
“If la adds 15 WAR to Boston among 5 players, and gains 12 WAR ”
No, LA is not going to trade a package that will put up 15 WAR in 2020 for a package that will put up 12 WAR in 2020 with one player being a one-year rental and the other being an underwater contract. Dave Stewart is not the GM in LA.
“Compared to LA, Boston needs a lot of work.”
Agreed. They need Betts a lot more than LA does if they seriously intend to compete this year.
“A deal I’d expect one rendition Joc, Verdugo, 1-2 young MLB ready Pitchers, May or Gonsolin is one fersure, maybe another top 100 prospect (LA has 7 per mlb.com..)
“For Betts and Price.
The more money Boston sends, the Better those 3 prospects are”
Just saw that now. You must have edited it in after I was done typing my reply. Baseball Trade Values says that Betts for Verdugo straight up is about even. With that in mind, even if you think they overvalue Verdugo and undervalue Betts (which, is probably true to some extent), why would the Dodgers also add Joc, May or Gonsolin, another young MLB ready pitcher, another top 100 prospect and take any of Price’s contract?
I think I see where the disconnect is now. You are banking on LA overpaying.
@mlbdodger
His career era is 3.83 in 590 innings. He’s far better than a “fringe 6”. He’s a 3 or an above avg 4 in most rotations. The dodgers are one of the few clubs where he’d be viewed as expendable.
Blueskies is right. His contract is a steal and his value at that cheap rate is what provides the surplus value.
Fringe 6 for the Dodgers. More like a #4 for most teams, and #5 for a good rotation. I think you have a lot of issues if he’s a #3 on your team. He has a good contract. But no team is going to target Maeda as the difference maker. I’d think if you’re the Red Sox you’re taking younger, higher ceiling prospects.
Red Sox are over the tax and must pay 50%. Next year if there over they will pay close to 75%. They have to get under the tax. And there going to get hammered by Manfred for cheating in2018
Betts is going to be a Padre.. I have sources..
No you don’t
My source is history and history says the padres will never part with their top prospects. Terribly ran organization. They love coming in 3rd every year !
They are what the French called les incompétent.
I don’t know, Lloyd, the French are asshoIes.
The Doyers are what the world calls les impotent. They say you can put a hump or two humps on a camel all the time—same with any Dodger WS team every time.
They just parted with Urias. And they parted with Turner.
This comment was pretty alarming until I realized you are talking about the Padres.
Dodgers love getting whupped by everyone in the WS. How’s it feel to have your team thrashed to kingdom come in front of a worldwide audience? How about on your home field? No wonder 70% of your town wants to see the Dodgers on local TV anymore.
You’re a sick, sad little man.
I remember when they had a moderating policy here. It’s turned into trollsville.
3rd would be an improvement for the Padres. I think they would be thrilled with 3rd.
Price will pitch really well for the Dodgers, maybe not worth the salary, but really well. They are a better team with him. Obviously, Betts is great. If the Red Sox can get back a player and a reliable arm, it’s worth it. San Diego is dishonest and should not be dealt with at all. Stealing signs (which everybody does) versus lying about the health of your players? No contest.
“Stealing signs (which everybody does)”
With technology? Prove it or shut up.
The Dodgers aren’t trading for Price!!!
The dodgers should go after Kris Bryant. Move Turner to short stop or first base
Shortstop?????
Um….they have this guy named “Seager”….who’s pretty darn good (and Turner is 34……)
1B is a logical landing spot, but that pushes Muncy to 2B and Lux back to the minors all year.
The Dodgers have been working Lux out in the outfield in case of a roster crunch scenario like this occurs.
Yes! And stay away from Betts because it may come out that the the 2018 world championship was a sign stealing team and most importantly the same cheaters had their guy win the mvp on the same year, much like and resembling a Altuve-Astro 2017. Imagine Betts a Dodger and major league baseball finds that Betts cheated with sign stealing against the Dodgers in 2018. I would love to see that PR nightmare
Exactly. Keep Betts out of LA unless and until he’s somehow cleared of cheating.
No MLB players will be penalized. So Boston players will get the same deal Houston got, that’s why Cora eas let go.
Shortstop? Justin Turner?
I’d like to see the Sox stay pat or try to add and compete with the Yanks. Can’t really see any good reason that a pretty talented team 2 years off a title in a massive market can’t manage to try to compete.
NL looks way more exciting this year with 3-4 teams from each division trying to compete.
Spankees are taking that division, open your eyes.
Better to reload now rather than let the covered go completly bare and be in the tank for years.
Betts isn’t signing and he wants 35 mil a year so he doesn’t have the same value.
Price may completly suck and just become untradable.
Trade them both and take the hit next year, get a couple prospects and get rid of price before its too late.
Don’t sell out 22,23,24 and 25 because you want an outside shot at the WC the next 2 years.
PID and centerfield cameras win championships
PID? Now I want brisket.
To all these people who are like why assume the Red Sox are gonna be selling…in this instance record is irrelevant they have so much money sunk into old starting pitching that they can’t afford to give Betts the contract he deserves they opted to extend Bogaerts instead essentially..So the record is irrelevant because if they don’t trade him he just walks and they get nothing and I don’t want to hear about compensation picks which we all know are lottery tickets.. makes more sense to trade him for something.. the longer they wait though the less that something will be
What do you consider a “contract he deserves” to be?
If he has a down year, like 2019 compared to 2018, would you still think the same value is there?
Don’t pay for past performances, he’s already made that money for those stats.
This would lead to believe that players and money are agreed to and its down to LA deciding if they want to do the deal but maybe I’m understanding it wrong.
I’m not high on David Price but I do think he’d be a good addition to that rotation. Do Price and Betts put them over the top? Probably. It’s not like they have far to go so I say take the chance and add a piece closer to trade deadline if needed. The financial cost is a little steep but if they win the WS it would be money well spent.
The Dodgers have the depth so the can shut down Price until he right. I think the Dodgers have 8 starting pitchers right now before the trade.
Price would probably be used as a swingman. That’s why I think if this deal happens it includes Maeda. He’s been vocal about not wanting to pitch out of the pen. He dislikes it even if it’s only in September and the postseason, and it looks like that role could come even earlier this season.
If they take on Price the Red Sox will need to take on Pollock’s contract and throw back some cash to help pay for Price’s terrible contract. Plus the Dodgers should be able to give less for taking on the Price contract. No way that Price is worth close to the $32mm/year he will be getting next three years.
You seem to assume that Pollock’s contract is deeply underwater. It isn’t really.
Pollock helps offset the cost of price. If the Dodgers are taking on most of Price’s contract they’d like to shed some payroll. Again, Pollock is not necessary for this Dodgers team if they have Betts along with Bellinger, Verdugo, Hernandez and Taylor. Even Beaty.
Not as much Price’s contract but definitely under water. I believe he’s owed $56mm over the next 4 years. He’s an injury risk. He can’t play CF any more and his numbers are heavily skewed towards being much better against lefties. Some of the most horrific at bats I’ve seen in the playoffs. He’s a platoon player at this point with injury risk earning $14mm a year for the next 4 years. If that’s not under water I don’t know what under water is.
I agree he has negative value versus the contract unless he somehow bounces back to 2015 levels or close to it. Slim to none on that though. He is great as a really expensive platoon partner for Joc though. A Joc/AJ platoon might even put up similar offensive numbers to Betts if AJ can stay healthy.
If you don’t mind exaggerating then every contract is under water, and that’s exactly what you did. Start with the “injury risk.” You do know how many broken bones Pollock has suffered? A player can play an entire career and never break a bone once. He’s had three. That’s bad luck, not an “injury risk.” So unless you have some medical theory to explain why he’s broken so many bones, then you are just looking at numbers and not understanding what they represent. Last year he missed time to an infection in his surgically-repaired elbow. Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary heath-wise. Nothing at all.
As for CF, apparently the Dodgers don’t agree that he can’t play it, because that’s what they had him do in 62 of the 86 games in which he appeared last year. And here’s his batting line from last season, even with the layoff and a bad start: .266/.327/.468/.795. For that he is owed $17M/year for three years if bought out $14M per over four if not. He doesn’t have to bounce back to his All-Star year to be worth that much in this player market. Castellanos just got almost exactly the same for almost carbon-copy career stats and below-average defense. So yeah maybe you don’t what under water is.
You’re joking. The guy hasn’t played over 113 games in a season since 2015. He’s only had more than 500 at bats once in 8 seasons. That is enough of a sample size to know that this guy gets hurt. None of us will be surprised if he’s hurt again this season. You can spin it however you want to.
As for CF, they finally realized that he’s not any good at it. He took a big decline last year He was a negative dWAR last year. Bellinger is hands down the better CF. You do realize that a 0.795 OPS is essentially average for OFs, right? And Castellanos is almost exactly the same? You’re joking. Not only is he 4 years younger than Pollock but a much better player. In the last 4 years, Pollock has played 323 games and averaged below an 0.800 OPS. Castellanos has played 575 games and averaged an OPS of about 0.840. His glove is not as good as Pollock’s but his bat is much better. Not a single GM would want Pollock over Castellanos and it’s not close. Stop making up stuff.
You can start your AJ Pollock fan club but not a lot of tears will be shed by Dodger fans once he’s gone. Hopefully sooner than later if we get Betts.
Yes, I was joking about the three broken bones. Except it’s somehow completely true. You could look it up.
Yes, I was joking about Castellanos having almost identical offensive numbers. Except it’s somehow completely true. You could look it up.
All that true stuff, completely made up.
None of which has anything to do with my being a fan. None of which has anything to do with Bellinger. Etc.
Sheesh.
Except that it’s not true.
Pollock has been injured a lot. 320 missed days in last four seasons.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/a.j.-pollock-10693/injuries/
Dead wrong on Castellanos having almost identical offensive numbers. Castellanos oWAR is 11.2 for last 4 seasons. Pollock’s is 5.7. Also, Pollock is no longer going to play CF. His oWAR numbers benefit from being evaluated as a CF versus corner OFs who typically put up better numbers. Castellanos is much better than Pollock if you analyze going forward as a corner OF.
He’s not durable. Doesn’t play good CF defense anymore. Has only put up 1.5 seasons of very good numbers. Those days are long gone, and does not justify his contract.
WAR, the Stat That Rules Them All! End of discussion! Not.
Pollock: .279/.337/.467/.804
Castellanos: 277/.326/.471/.797
Wow, that’s like… totally… different. I see the light now! How could I have been so blind?
And except that it is completely true. I notice you can’t argue three broken bones as being some sort of weird chronic medical condition (I know you can’t, it would be silly), so you just pretend like it wasn’t mentioned. Nice technique. BTW you also ignore the purpose of making the comparison. If you are forgetting try rereading. It’s all there.
Apples to oranges man. Talk about twisting facts. Pollock is more than 4 years removed from his best stats. Take the last four year or 3 years or 2 years, and its not close. What Pollock did in 2015 is ancient history. We all know he’s not going to do that again. Are you this dumb or just like to twist facts to make you look smart, which you’re not doing by the way.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/polloaj01.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/casteni01.shtml
My point in bringing up WAR is that it is now skewed as Pollock will not be playing CF, which has a lower average OPS versus corner OFs.
Do a 3 team deal Angel’s, Dodgers, Redsox. Price goes to Angel’s. Betts to Dodgers
Who do the Red Sox get? Mike Trout?
After the Sox trade Betts to the Dodgers then they will approach the Padres about a trade for JBJ.
Lets see, Sox logic…
Padres take all of JBJs contract for Patino, Morejon, Abrams,Baez and Weathers
Yeah that should do it.
But hey Padres fans we should be honored to make a trade with the Sox.
Padres take all of JBJs contract for Patino, Morejon, Abrams,Baez and Weathers
——————————————————————-
You actually signed in in order to make that comment?
Keep dreamin Gore and Patino combined will W 35 games in 2021, you’ll never seen anyone of those two on the Sox. The only team for those two will be the Padres..
Howz about Dodgers send Lux, Muncy, Maeda, your C Smith and Verdugo to Padres / Red Sox send LA one 1 year of Betts, $96M of Price and 25 lbs. of pinto beans to Dodgers / Padres & Dodgers send, respectively, Naylor, Margot and Wingenter plus Turner, Seager and May to LA?
Betts, Price and $5-mil dollars in 2021 and 2022 ($2.5 per year) to LA for Pederson, Pollack and Maeda.
My guess is that the Red Sox are looking to pick up a couple prospects if they’re taking back Pederson and Pollock. Maeda doesn’t make any sense for the Dodgers to trade. They need starting pitching after losing Ryu and Hill.
Buehler, Kershaw, Price, Urias, Wood, Gonsolin/May. Getting rid of Price and adding the 3 Dodgers mentioned above gives them one more shot in 2020. Dodgers pitching can be added midseason if guys falter.
I think your base is right but we would have to add 2 more prospects – Strip /Ruiz maybe Ruiz/Rios – As complex as it seems its really a straight forward trade at its roots
If that’s the case then Boston better kick in at least $10-mil. Taking Price’s contract and eating a lot of it is the favor by LA.
Boston would have no interest in Pederson. Negative interest even.
An OF of Pederson/Pollock/Benintendi along with JBJ to replace Pollock when he’s injured would keep the Red Sox in-contention. If taking on Pederson means getting rid of Price without having to kick in big money, you do it. Shedding $64-mil of Price in 2021-22 for one year of Pederson is worth it.
WTF are you talking about???? Getting Pederson in the trade would make the Red Sox LESS able to shed Price’s salary! Not more! The Dodgers don’t see losing him as a good thing and if they did, they would have non-tendered him.
And no, the Red Sox’s 2020 season is sunk if they trade Mookie. And they know it.
So what you’re saying is you failed basic math? Good stuff. Let’s do this again.
Dodgers ask for Betts, Red Sox ask for prospects, Dodgers ask for some salary relief from their OFs because they are swamped with OFs, Red Sox ask if they’d be interested in Price, Dodgers would need more salary relief and offload a pitcher, Red Sox would welcome a starting pitcher, Dodgers ask if they’d be interested in Pederson, Red Sox ask if they can give the Dodgers less money (for Price and Betts) to facilitate that move, Dodgers say yes (or no).
So you say the Red Sox are LESS able to shed Price’s salary because of Pederson? You are wrong, right on-cue. You have failed basic math and logic.
Pederson has surplus value. So no, the Dodgers are not going to agree to pay more of Price’s contract in exchange for them losing Pederson. What they would do is keep paying less of Price’s contract and either keep Pederson or, if they really want to shed his salary, trade him to a third team for a prospect.
And if Pederson didn’t have surplus value, he would have been non-tendered.
And no, the Red Sox would not be interested in Pederson. He’s a rental and their season is sunk if they trade Betts.
Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.
It’s hilarious you keep insisting Mookie Betts determines Boston’s competing
Why didn’t they compete in 2019 then? BECAUSE OF THE REST OF THE ROSTER
they aren’t winning with Mookie unless Eovaldi and Sale are pitching 175 innings
They can replace Mookie 2020 projected value, gain 2021 and beyond flexibility, and additional players they didn’t have before
I’m not talking out both sides. You just don’t want to acknowledge basic facts
You just want to sit here and scream MOOKIE OR BOSTON SUCKS. You keep complaining they don’t gain the 26th man. Bro they don’t have a 26th man more valuable than the pieces they add from LA. But you’re just shaking your head in the sand. Hahahaha unbelievable. Keep doing you
Multiple people have explained the math. You’re the problem
No, it’s the pitching. They can get the same value from their Of
“It’s hilarious you keep insisting Mookie Betts determines Boston’s competing”
It’s the truth
“Why didn’t they compete in 2019 then? BECAUSE OF THE REST OF THE ROSTER”
And that will still be the case in 2020. ESPECIALLY if they trade Mookie.
“they aren’t winning with Mookie unless Eovaldi and Sale are pitching 175 innings”
And they’ll have to pitch even more innings if Mookie is traded to make up for that loss in production.
“They can replace Mookie 2020 projected value, gain 2021 and beyond flexibility, and additional players they didn’t have before”
No they can not. They must pick one or the other. Why would any team take on Price’s underwater contract and give the Sox good, young controllable players if they aren’t making their team better now? (which by your admittance, they wouldn’t be)
“I’m not talking out both sides. You just don’t want to acknowledge basic facts”
Yes you are. You brought up Pederson and Verdugo’s 2019 WAR to try and say that trading Mookie for them won’t hurt the Red Sox’s chances of contending. But then when I said that it also wouldn’t help the Dodgers’ chances of contending because they’d be sending out as much WAR as they are taking in, you brought up the extra roster spot to say that it would help the Dodgers. But on the other side of that coin, it would also hurt the Red Sox by taking up one of their own roster spots. Bottom line, if the Red Sox already have to make up 12 wins to play in the AL Wild Card game on the road, their competition is using that extra roster spot to add more wins and they are using it to run in place, they are NOT going to make the playoffs in 2020.
“You just want to sit here and scream MOOKIE OR BOSTON SUCKS. You keep complaining they don’t gain the 26th man. Bro they don’t have a 26th man more valuable than the pieces they add from LA. ”
Well then they better go get one without trading Betts because there’s no way they contend otherwise.
“But you’re just shaking your head in the sand. Hahahaha unbelievable. Keep doing you”
And you are projecting
“Multiple people have explained the math. You’re the problem”
Unbelievable how when someone gives you plausible reasons to dispute your opinion, you double down on that. You don’t want to consider anything else. You just want to listen to yourself argue.
“No, it’s the pitching. They can get the same value from their Of”
NOBODY is trading equal 2020 value + more for one year of Mookie Betts. There is no reason for them to do that.
Pederson in a walk year with an OF full of Betts, Bellinger, Verdugo, Hernandez,Taylor and Beaty is expendable. And he can’t hit lefties. The part of Price’s contract is filled by Pollock and Maeda’s contracts plus the few million Boston kicks in the final two seasons. That is the part you do not seem to grasp. Please do not bring up logic. You do not have the slightest clue what logic means. Surplus value….excellent joke.
It doesn’t matter if Joc is in a walk year. It doesn’t matter if he is expendable. LA isn’t going to ask Boston to take him in a trade just to get rid of him unless it means Boston is willing to take him in lieu of more/better prospects or pay more of Price’s contract in exchange for getting Joc. Boston isn’t going to do that because if they trade Betts their season is sunk and as such they would have no use for a rental OF like Pederson.
If Pederson didn’t have surplus value, LA would have non-tendered him. He clearly does have surplus value. If they want to shed his salary to make room for Price and Bett, they can trade Pederson to someone else for a prospect. And that someone else will be someone who is actively trying to contend for a championship in 2020.
Betts, Price and $51 million towards Price’s contract for Gonsolin, Ruiz and Wong. Who hangs up?
Red Sox. After laughing hysterically.
RS hang up.
RSox finish third in 2020 with or without Betts, cry me a river
If I’m the Red Sox and a large market team like the Dodgers want Betts….the price would be significantly higher than say a team like the Padres. Especially when the Dodgers have a stacked farm system
The price for Betts is one thing. But the price for Betts and Price is another matter..
So if the Padres offered 70 cents on the dollar and the Dodgers offered 90 cents on the dollar, so you think the Red Sox should just take the lesser offer from the Padres?
Not sure how that is in the best interest of the Red Sox.
Padres checks don’t bounce, so yeah.
Why? How does Betts spending 2020 with the Padres over the Dodgers benefit the Red Sox? I guess I could see it if the Red Sox didn’t want to have to face Betts in the postseason but they aren’t making the postseason in 2020 without Betts so…
There not making post season with Betts either
@nowheretogobutup maybe, but without Betts they have no chance at all.
That’s asinine. First of all the farm system of the Padres is as good if not better than the Dodger farm system. The Padres will need to give up more prospects to get Betts as they won’t be able to take Price and may have to send back Wil Myers. The Dodgers can take on Price’s bad contract but I hope will send back Pollock’s bad contract and less prospects than the Padres would have had to. I would offer Pollock, one MLB bench player like Beaty or Kike, and a couple of high but not elite prospects for Betts, Price and some cash.
Dodgers have better position player prospects than the Padres and as much high upside pitching.
Not close on pitching. Paddack. Gore. Patino vs May, Gray, and Gonsolin. .No contest there.
No young player or prospect for the Dodgers is as good as Tatis. Lux might be good, but not 4.2 WAR in 84 games good. Verdugo sure wasn’t. Campusano is more highly rated than Ruiz who is no longer considered a sure thing. Abrams is a higher rated player than Downs. Abrams hit .400 in his first taste of pro ball at 18. Trammell has better tools than Verdugo and is rated higher than anyone else in the Dodgers system.
Dodgers sure have some good position player prospects, but it’s not quite what the Padres have. As an Angels fan I envy both farm systems, but Billy is getting us there.
Here is the thing though, the Dodgers are ready to win now and Betts puts them over the top. Betts makes the Padres an 87-88 win team.
Betts is a great fit in LA, not in SD.
Paddack isn’t a prospect.
Agree though that I’d prefer Gore/Patino over May/Gray
Smith, Ruiz, Cartaya and Wong give the Dodgers better depth at C. Lux and Downs is much safer to pan out than Abrams. Trammell got outmatched at AA and Verdugo was a 3 win player last year so thats flat out ridiculous to even act like TT is a better young asset. Verdugo was in the bigs 3 years after being drafted. Trammell is in year 4 now and he will be lucky to get drafted. Hoese and Busch are better than any of the Padres postion player prospects not in the top 100.
Tatis had a 400 BABIP. Slow your roll on him repeating that
80 games is no where near long enough for that to normalize
If Paddack is considered part of the “farm system,” then Urias is too. MLB career essentially put on pause because of his injury but still only 23 and was as highly regarded as Gore is at the same age. 184 MLB innings compared to Paddack’s 140 and a year younger
Less than a full year of MLB = prospect. I don’t go by the 50 IP eligibility for a rookie in determining if someone is still a prospect.
Yes, Gore and Patino is better than May/Gray.
The Red Sox are rumored to be asking for Patino, Lucchesi, Naylor, another prospect, and for the Padres to pay 75% of Myers contract for Betts. Remember, the Red sox are taking on Myers who is owed $61 million and has been about replacement level in that deal.
The Dodgers are not getting Betts for the often injured Pollock and scraps.
The rumors are that the Red Sox are asking for Verdugo, May, Santana, and a 4th prospect (an 18 year old catcher named Cartaya?) for Betts, That is completely fair ask for an 8-10 WAR player. Even for one year.
David Price is no longer in the discussions.
Price is no longer being discussed? My little birdie beat up your little birdie on the playground at recess.
I think Price is still involved i Think they are looking at 2 scenarios-
Joc + prospects for just Mookie
and the bigger package of Mookie + price ….which would actually cost less prospect capital
My Q to you Koamalu though– Would your Angels be interested in Price if say his contract was cut in half to 16 mill per fopr 3 more yrs?
Why hasnt anypitcher needy team tryed this? Sox could get under with dealing off 16 mill of Price and just JBJ….I wonder why they dont try and explore that more?>>>
Joc Pederson will not be involved in a Betts trade. He’s a rental just like Betts.
Joc Pederson is not in the discussions for Betts alone. He has one year of control and makes $8.625 million in 2020. The Red Sox are looking to get under the CBT threshold so the absolute most they can add in any trade for Betts is $5 million. If its multiple players come back they have to add up to a maximum of $5 million.
Verdugo, May, Santana or another young controllable reliever, and that catcher is the asking price for Betts.
We really don’t have the prospects to get Price and Betts without giving up Adell and Billy is not going to do that. If Price’s cost to the Angels was under $15 million annually then I think that would be something to think about, but its prospects that the Angels would have to give up for Price is the biggest hangup. He is still a 2 WAR pitcher, so $15 million does not leave much surplus value. That is probably why no one has approached them about that trade.
They can ask all they want but they’re not getting that. I don’t see the Dodgers doing this deal unless Price is in it to lower the cost of acquisition.
This is truly the crux, do they put their money where their mouth is?
Do You truly covet holding onto your chosen prospects?
Do you truly want to bring in high end talent?
Will you truly spend the money we have put in your pockets year in year out?
An opportunity has presented itself here at the right time, right place, thats not always a given, what shall ya say, one way or another this prolly gets resolved a couple days after the Super Bowl………. I can read the headlines now ….Mookie To SD!
koamalu
Last year Betts was not an 8-10 WAR player as you suggest. He was 6.8. Precipitously down 4.1 WAR from his 10.9 peak in 2018.
Peak years are 26-30. He is far from done and he has two 8-10 WAR seasons in the last 4.
It may happen without Patino and Padres pay 1/2 of Myers salary plus the others you named
Please help a veteran in need. Emergency situation. Sorry to beg.
gofundme.com/1vuvgfy7dc
If they trade for Mookie now, they get a draft pick at the end of the year when they give him a qualifying offer. Not a great one in the Dodgers case, but a draft pick. They also get 4 more months of a game changer in the lineup.
If they wait until mid-season they give up much the same prospects to get him and get nothing at the end of the season.
If you are going to give up all the players it will take to get Mookie, do it now,
The only problem with this logic is: what happens if Kershaw or Buehler or maybe an infielder, for example, goes down in May? Now you’ve used up some of your trade resources for a “nice to have” and you’ve got a hole in your roster that’s going to be tougher to fix than it otherwise would have been.
What if? You have to take risks to win it all. The Dodgers are going to have to make the call. Continue with what they have when the rest of their division is getting better and the leading teams in the Central and East are making huge strides, or take a risk to win it all.
If Buehler goes down the Dodgers are hosed. If Kershaw goes down not so much. They can go out and get someone to fill his shoes like they did the last couple of times he was hurt. Lux is coming so no problem if an infielder goes down.
It’s on the Dodgers brass now. If they have any.
Kasten stepped in when Friedman wanted to hire Kapler as manager and made him sign Roberts instead. It’s time for him to intervene again. Quite frankly, Kasten should have stepped in permanently a while ago,
Delusional angels fan. I have spent a considerable amount of time defending the angels but your delusion is at an all time high @koamalu.
First outside of tatis (white sox prospect) who has developed from within the padres organization to become a talent in the majors? They on paper always have a top 10 farm and yet still find themselves in last place or maybe 3rd depending on year. Dodgers have developed bellinger,seager, puig, matt kemp, andre either, walker buehler, kershaw, mike piazza, verdugo, eric karos To name a few all in house in the last 30 years. Id rather have prospects from dodgers than padres quiet frankly….
Secondly your packages make little to no sense from dodgers perspective. They will not be trading verdugo or anyone in top 4/5 prospects for price and 1 year of mookie. Again if just mookie 1 elite talent will be involved outside of that dodgers have shown no willingness to trade young assets. Padres if meyers is included will be forced to traded quiet a few top prospects even if price is involved. Red sox want to get below the tax threshold not stay above it with wil meyers.
Koamalu isn’t an Angels fan. He’s “Pads Fans” pretending to be someone else.
“quite”
What does the Dodgers trading for Betts have to do with the Padres developing talent? What does it have to do with the Angels? So who is delusional?
Whether the packages are to the Dodgers liking or not, it’s not up to them. It’s up to the Red Sox. That is what they are asking for.
Dodgers have already said they offered Verdugo. Its Lux they are not willing to part with. They will give up not only Verdugo, but at least one of their top 5 prospects, and more to get Betts. Why? Start with last years trade for Goldschmidt, the Dodgers trade for 2 months of Machado and Yu, and the Cubs trade for 2 months of Chapman. Those set the market and all are lower level talents than Betts is.
The Dodgers are not taking on both Price and Betts because it will take them over the CBT threshold. Just Betts. He is all they need.
The Red Sox have said that the Padres will have to eat all but $5 million per year of Myers contract in any deal. The only reason for making a trade of Betts and taking the huge PR hit is to get under the CBT.
Development of prospects does not devalue the prospects. It says the MLB coaching personnel is not that good. I bet though that I could find just as long of a list of successful MLB players that went through the Padres system.
The Dodgers are so deep in major league players and prospects that it’s hard to imagine them facing a hole in the lineup that they couldn’t fill.
Get Mookie now. It’s time to go for it!
Yup, the Dodgers are deep in it. Can you ‘mell it?!?!?
Dodgers will sleepwalk to the 2020 NLW title, regardless of if Buehler or Kershaw gets injured.
Yup—and they’ll get violated in their sleep in the WS.
Not even close to a sleepwalk. They Dodgers did not improve.in the offseason. In fact, as of today they are a 98 win team. If Buehler is out for an extended time, the Diamondbacks are poised to take the West. They won 85 games last season and made huge strides in the 2nd half last season going 39.32. Then they added Bumgarner, Marte, Calhoun and 2 relievers in the offseason. Moving Ketel Marte back to his natural position will make that infield one of the best. If you are writing them off you are sadly mistaken.
STFU Ryan. Grow up.
Lmao triggered
The bones of this trade money wise will be
Joc Pollock- Mookie Price as Ive said all week; no money etheir way
From there Sox chose the prospects
Dodgers go over cap using money as a flex to decrease prospect capital
Sox get under, reset, save 15 mill from Price to Pollock 2021/2022 and get 3/4 pretty good prospects (none of Verdugo May Lux)
Only thing left is filling in the prospects- My guess Ruiz Gonzo Maeda Edwin Rios type package
Even with such a complicated deal I think the Bread crumbs are all right there
I don’t see why the Red Sox would want Joc. Doesn’t seem like they would be in contention this year so why bother taking Joc on for one year. The Dodgers can use his production and at this point he doesn’t have much trade value. Better off keeping him. Pollock makes the most sense from a dollars and overcrowded outfield for the Dodgers. His contract is bad but not as bad as Price’s. Pollock and two or three very solid prospects and maybe one MLB reserve player like Beaty or Kike. for Betts and Price. Makes too much sense.
Joc is basically just a money filler but I wouldnt count out the Sox if they got back ready guys with control like Maeda Strip Joc and Pollock in the package for both – With a healthy Sale and Eovaldi and the dodger contributions from Pitching they could still land a Wc –
Agree we coulda gotten more from the White Sox 2 months ago for Joc but part of it is there just isnt much room if you bring in Mookie at this point-
Your dream scenario would be Belli Mookie and a healthy fan fav Verdugo most nights – Then theres the money too, Mookie Price is 59 mill we have to displace some of it – They could circle over to Kiki instead whoes only 2.7 mill less but its really the Red Sox call at that point and Im assuming they’d want Joc and Im assuming looking at their own roster they’d feel they could def compete 2020-
I have a hard time seeing Mookie being traded with Price and here’s why.
The Red Sox are looking to reset the lux tax but also add significant talent/prospects. Betts does that for them and Price reduces that for them.
If the Red Sox do trade Betts then they are probably just a cut of JBJ, since his money isn’t guaranteed, to get under the lux tax. This way they could trot Price out there and show he is healthy and if he pitches well will regain a lot of his value.
If the Red Sox are out of it at the Trade deadline they might even be able to move Price for a prospect or two. It’s a gamble but a calculated one in that even if they are stuck with Price they will almost assuredly still go below the lux line. I think they take the gamble that Price is well and pitches his ass off to get out of Boston.
JBJ’s money is guaranteed.
I don’t think it is. I am pretty sure they can cut him and only pay the prorated amount and he immediately becomes a free agent.
It’s only completely guaranteed if he is on the 25 man rooster when the season starts. If they dfa him before the season starts he will be entitled to 45 days termination pay and becomes a free agent.
Price has $48 million negative value. Betts has $27 million surplus value. Do you think the Sox are going to walk away with premium prospects after the Dodgers are already taking on $21 million in negative value? How does that work?
I thought the Sox fans were bad but this article the Dodgers fans have proved they are just as insane. The Dodgers are NOT going to get Betts or a package with Price for a song.
It is obvious May and Lux are not going to be part of this deal.
Verdugo and Gonsolin are most likely part of this deal.
It is a question of how the money is handled. Do the Sox take Kelly back and how much contract is eaten. The Sox are going to have to eat about half of Price’s contract.
There will be no deal.
The dodgers and bailing out the Red Sox from sticky financial situations, name a more iconic duo
Except that this is not Ned Colletti. If it were this deal would have been done by now and the Dodgers would have lost either Lux or May, and probably fully paying for Price as well. Friedman is a “little bit” smarter than that.
It’s not like they are getting bailed out for free. I’d say the Dodgers see this as an opportunity. We all have our own intuitions on this but I we should probably reserve judgement until we see a trade confirmed and detailes fleshed out.
And the Red Sox keep bailing the Dodgers out by giving them talent for cheap
How did that Pedro Martinez trade work out for you.
Padres need this move to take the next step but will likely hurt their future bad. Dodgers don’t need this but it would significantly make them better, AND it likely doesn’t hurt their future. Seems like a no brainer for the dodgers… assuming the sox are willing to pull the trigger.
Why when the Mets will offer more when it’s time?
Not too sure why a team who won the WS 2 years ago is looking to unload 2 superstars. I get the Price salary dump.. but if he goes to LA and thrives it’s gonna be bad. Betts fits real well in dodger lineup. Or any lineup for that matter. If you make this deal.. better pick up Puig he could fill a spot for 15 mil less than betta
Red Sox know that they will lose Betts after this year. And they want to go below luxury tax. They’re not competing for a WS in 2020. Makes sense to me. Even if the Dodgers get Betts I doubt they re-sign him. He’s going to make way too much $. Unless you’re the Yankees, you can’t sign a player like that without it significantly hurting your ability to field good players in other positions. You need very good cheap players elsewhere.
They need to dump Price to get below luxury tax.
Yankees will be dreading years 5 through 9 of the Cole Contract and when he has to have TJ Surgery after trying to over compensate for the massive contract it will make things worse…. not saying that Cole was not a good signing for them, just saying 9 years is way to much for any player and especially for a pitcher. I said it before…. Sox should make 1 last effort to sign Mookie…. offer him 7 years @ 37 1/2 mill per season…. show him the respect he is looking for by being paid more per year then Trout…. If he wants more years and doesn’t sign….. then see ya
Not too sure why a team who won the WS 2 years ago is looking to unload 2 superstars
———————————————————–
What happened two years ago doesn’t matter in 2020. The Betts decision will be made based on how much the prospects will contribute v how much Betts will contribute.
And Price is no longer close to a superstar. Still good, but superstar?
would be cool to see Betts & Price traded to LA…
2020 World Series, Yankees sweep the Dodgers. Theeee Yankees win
Good thing games are played on the field and not paper.
For real. Idiots need to stop pushing Joc Pederson in a Betts trade. If the Red Sox trade Betts they are done for 2020 and so they would only want controllable players coming back in the trade. Adding Pederson does nothing for them.
So let’s remember the same guy who signs Alex Spier’s paycheck also signs Mookie’s.
Henry/Warner love to control the news as much as King George used to love to, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they announce a deal Sunday night, about 8PM (i.e. halftime). Might even be 2 deals; Betts to LA, Price to SD (for Myers and stuff). And let’s not delude ourselves that Bloom is going to have a final say in either deal; he might not even have any say at all. Like the Schilling deal so long ago, Henry’s dealin’ the cards,, the GM is just sittin’ and kibitizin’……John Henry likes to pretend he’s just an observer; sure, just like any corporate mogul when they’re throwing millions of dollars around.
For the record, I don’t want to see Betts traded.
Is it just me or does it feel like the Dodgers front office is pushing for this (unnecessary) trade to go through only to push the Padres organization deeper into a hole and keep them there? If the Padres can’t swing this deal, they are stuck being an, at best, 4th place team for many years. This means Preller is out and more uncertainty, along with an even longer rebuild including the FO. This would inevitably waste a few great years of service time from guys like Tatis jr. Great strategy on the Dodgers part. I don’t think they are worried that Betts will make the Padres true contenders. They are thinking long term.
Am I alone in thinking this?
How exactly does the Padres not getting one year of Betts push them to a 4th place team for many years?
How does not making this trade mean the Padres are stuck being a 4th place team for many years? They’d only be getting Betts for one year if they trade for him. If anything, not making this trade means the Padres are less likely to be stuck being a 4th place team after 2020 than they would be with the trade.
I guess you didn’t read it right. The idea, on the Dodgers part, is to crush the Padres FO. Everyone knows that without a successful season, Prellar is gone. Betts only being a 1 year rental is irrelevant. Prellar only has 1 year to turn things around anyway. “Heads will spin” was the phrase ownership used.
Actually the phrase he used was “heads will roll.” And how does the Padres ousting an incompetent general manager make them less likely to contend in the next few years? Heck, people said the same thing about the Diamondbacks 3 years ago but then they brought in a GM who actually knew what he was doing and they made the playoffs the following season.
SWINGnMISS
Do you really think the Dodgers are motivated to the tune of tens of millions of dollars to oust Prellar? Is that what you’re saying?
Dodgers could care less about the Padres FO. They’re trying to make a better playoff team. They are not going to overpay but they are interested in making the playoff team better even if that means taking on more payroll, losing some depth and parting with some high quality (not elite) prospects. The right move I think. They probably need a #2 starter more than an elite bat, but no question that with Betts they have a better lineup.
Peeler staying put may be an even better scenario for the Dodgers, depending on the circumstances.
I do agree that the Dodgers may be playing a bit of hot-stove chicken with SD in order to drive up the price on Betts (and possibly Price).
*Preller
SWINGnMISS…. I think there is some logic in what you are saying.
The Padres need to worry about the DBacks and their evolution into a great organization before they even think about challenging the Dodgers
They’re trying to add superstars to a 106 win team
There aren’t many players that qualify as an upgrade that are available. Betts is one of the few. SD is a worry in 3 years if everything goes right. La is trying to win in 2020
Buster Olney, MLB network and the rest of the media really really don’t want the Padres to get Mookie. Haha.
Betts, Jackie Bradley Jr., and David Price for Wil Myers, Josh Naylor, Adrian Morejon and Tirso Ornelas. Red Sox send 20 million in cash for 2020 to offset Price’s and JBJ salary. So for 2020, Padres incoming 30-35 million (which would be the price they’d get Betts on the open market) and Red Sox get rid of about that same amount. Get’s Red Sox under the tax line or close to it. Myers can serve as a their RF, or some sort of UT player for Sox as they look to sort of retool their team. They get Naylor, who can DH or play 1B, where he would be better than LF, maybe play out there occasionally. Anyways young power bat. They get Ornelas, young talented prospect OF player and Morejon who can slot in to Price’s rotation spot. A guy with No 2 starter potential.
For Pads, they get Betts to play RF, JBJ as a 4th OF, and Price as a rotation workhorse (as well as a move to the NL which may do him well and rejuvenate him). Myers contract goes bye bye (albeit at the expense of Price’s contract) but at least they get a solid No 2/3 rotation arm in exchange for Myers who has not been very good in SD. JBJ comes off the books after the season as does Betts so long term, it would just be Price’s contract on the books unless they can resign Betts.
A Dodgers trade I would have to imagine would work for Betts would be Betts for Tony Gonsolin, Michael Busch and DJ Peters.
“Get’s Red Sox under the tax line or close to it.”
Red Sox aren’t going to do a deal of this magnitude and not get under the tax line with a few million to spare. I don’t see how the Sox swallow Price/JBJ money ($20MM) AND take on Myers’ salary. This makes no sense.
Stretch123…. there is absolutely no way in hell the Red Sox would do that trade… ZERO chance.
Betts $27 million
Price $31 million
JBJ $12 million
That is $70 million
– $20 million is $50 million.
Myers is making $20 million.
That is adding $30 million to Padres payroll for 2020.
In 2021 and 2022 they take on $31 million and get $20 million per year in salary relief from Myers deal.
$11 million for Price is not a bad deal. If healthy he is a solid #3 starter. Even if he is not healthy he will put up 2 WAR.
That might just work. It also gives the Red Sox about $63 million in CBT payroll relief putting them around $165 million. That frees up $40 million they could spend in picking up other players.
I do think the Red Sox would need someone to play CF coming back though. Maybe Margot and Myers plus the rest?
That is a really interesting take.
Got to love the guy that not only thinks of himself as interesting, but feels the need to tell everyone about it like it is a given. When I pat you on the head and say “awww, so cute,” are you more interesting, less interesting or does nothing change?
Huge pass as a Red Sox fan not even close.
I’ll be very surprised if the Dodgers make this trade.
If a deal can get done without Wil Myers attached that would be best, however that’s probably not likely. Margot, Cordero, Naylor, and Trammell are the only other OF’s not named Pham or Grisham so not sure what the Padres are really offering.
Dodgers will not part with any of their prospects and Betts for Pederson straight up is not going to happen so I dont know why Friedman and Kasten keep stringing everyone along. If they were willing to part with young players they would have Lindor already.
I don’t like Price for the Dodgers. If LA does and can negotiate a package deal that includes Pollock and one or more decent pitching prospects, Betts/Price to the Dodgers may happen.
They don’t have Lindor because they were unwilling to part with Lux. A deal for Betts would be headlined by Verdugo.
Betts & Price to the Dodgers for Pederson, May, Stripling, Beaty
Not May.
If the Sox trade Price along with Betts, they need to get a major league ready starter back to take Price’s spot in the rotation. I’d be happy to see Boston take on Pollock’s contract, along with Maeda and two good prospects (Ruiz & ???). While I’d hate to see Mookie leave, the Boston FO has to believe there is no possible way they can resign him so why not trade him now and get some decent value in return…and reset the luxury tax too. Even if Boston stands pat this year, they will struggle to beat out NY (loaded) so as much as I love Mookie, I fully understand why the team feels like they need to move him now. If they can somehow pry Verdugo away from LA, that would be a major boon. Hopefully Boston pulls the trigger with LA and not SD; Wil Myers is awful and Boston fans will eat him alive if he comes in and tanks like he did last season.
It will be hilarious if a trade get announced between the Red Sox and Padres and its JBJ and Price for Myers and Morejohn…. all contracts in full assumed by team receiving player….. then Sox ride with Mookie until Deadline…. Not going to happen/highly unlikely…. but I would just to love the mud in face of the media talking heads being so wrong about all their speculation.
““All signs point to a two-team race” between the Dodgers and Padres for Betts, the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier writes”
It was always pretty much the Padres and Dodgers. Anyone could’ve stepped up, and still can, but those two teams have the deepest farms.
Padres are willing to deal crap major leaguers and lower tier prospects, Dodgers arent willing to deal period. It’s a two horse race with neither one leaving the stable.
Nope, they are legit major leaguers and real prospects.
Now I am hearing that the Brewers are involved. I think that Betts is definitely getting traded.
If the Brewers are involved it means someone doesnt have the players the Sox want and are trying to involve a third team.
The Brewers are not involved on Mookie
Would be a huge get for the Padres. They won’t get him. They only spend money on players who don’t make sense. Like to get over rated and over pay them. As they fail to make the playoffs again their fans can brag how great the farm is. Can’t wait to get trammel up aka a slower Billy Hamilton. We are strapped can’t get Mookie unless you take Myers. Even though Mookie is basically free. The excitement, pr, and extra tickets he will sell are well worth his 1 year of salary. Enjoy the one year and the comp pick. But knowing Padres it probably won’t happen.
You’re the only besides me that has mentioned this. My guess is that Betts is worth 200,000 more tickets sold. That and the ratings will pay Betts’ salary.
Like Phillies have yet to pay Harper. On baseball only he is overrated overpaid. But looking at it as a business with pr and marketing included Harper was a bargain. Just a big personality star power guy. Padres sign hosmer nobody really cares. Machdo you care, got a big name but no Harper as far as being interesting or captivated. Mookie would fit that bill. Even more so would be Lindor with that big smile and lovable personality. Padres need someone exciting and marketable to get some excitement going for this year. Still won’t make playoffs but will be in mix and good for attendance. Next year maybe the prospects can hit and they could be playoff contender.
…Acuna Jr….?
He would fit the bill for the Padres but he is not a free agent and I haven’t heard anything about him being on the trade block.
He’s locked up for years and untouchable. Why in the world would ATL trade their best player while being WS contenders and favorites to win 3rd straight NL East title?
lol he’s going to padres …… Dodgers aren’t trading any prospects
Friedman’s backup plan will be signing a 38 year old journeyman with bad knees and a .220 BA for cheap.
Hopefully Verdugo is the main piece. He comes off as a clown to me and I don’t think he’s going to be as good as people think.
Well, we shall see, but to me he seems like a talented, smart player. I’d hate to see him go. He was off to a great start but slowed down, possibly due to injury, That injury may be the reason he isn’t traded. It could be chronic.
Mr. Dreifort thinks every Dodger is a clown. Boring.
Verdugo is a talented player and far from a “clown.” He has been unfortunately injury-prone, though. I like his energy in the clubhouse and I think he has a bright future in MLB.
Dodgers trade Verdugo, May & Ruiz
Padres trade Gore, Myers, Abrams and Baez
Red Sox Trade Betts, Price and Groome
Dodgers get Betts
Padres get Price (full contract), Verdugo and Groome
Red Sox Get Myers (full contract) Gore, May, Abrams, Ruiz and Baez……. Sox save 37 mill and get under the Luxury Tax and get a reset.
Dodgers get their Guy
Padres get out from Myers contract, but pick up Price’s who provides them a Veteran Pitcher to help Mentor their young staff and has a great year getting out of AL East and pitching in a Pitcher friendly park…. They get Vergugo and his solid skill set to be a potential All Star and get Groome who is not as “sure of thing” as Gore, but has potential to be a top of the Rotation Starter….. Preller gets to save his job… for now.
So, the Red Sox get 4 top 100 prospects, a possible mid-season top 100 prospect, save $37M and give up a non-top 100 prospect, a high priced rental, and an underwater contract… And, on top of all that, you’re allowing the other 2 GMs to keep their jobs?? How thoughtful.
YEP… Dodgers get there Guy and Padres get out from the bad Contract of Myers… a potential All Star Outfielder, a pitcher that can mentor staff and with a good season still win 17 games… and huge potential with Groome who before the TJ was a top 100 prospect.. and he is already back pitching. Its a win for all 3 teams involved.
Price is being under valued as a Pitcher because of his contract still owed… Take away the nagging injuries he has had the past year …he still is really good and was basically the MVP of the WS in 18 vs the Dodgers who the Padres play 19 times a year…. If the Padres want to compete this year…. this trade puts them in position to do so.
1. Dodgers – they give up 3 top 100 prospects for a rental (compare to Goldschmidt trade), and take on $28M (putting their tax to about $236M).
2. Padres – give up the best pitching prospect in baseball, don’t get Mookie, do get price and his full K to “mentor” a staff that now no longer includes its most valuable asset to be mentored, also give up another top 100 prospect. Price is not well-liked in Boston and crumpled under that pressure, he’s shown no signs of mentoring abilities. By taking his full K, dropping Myers still ADDS to their payroll. Oh and they get a recent TJ pitcher.
3. Sox – give up a player that they know wants to test FA, get out from Price’s K, reset the tax, AND get pretty much 5 top 100 prospects.
If you like Groome’s potential (especially compared to Gore’s) that much, why don’t you just keep Groome, take out Gore and call that a “fair” deal?
Wait, so you’re *seriously* trying to tell me that everyone else is “undervaluing” Price because of his contract, recent injuries, and overall underperformance? If so, people are undervaluing Cano, for example, so, following this logic, why wouldn’t the Sox trade Benny and Devers for him, y’all need a second baseman right?
Cooperdupper. That is one of the most ridiculous trade proposals of all time.
Cooper,
This is an awful trade. If the Dodgers are giving up Verdugo, May, and Ruiz, you better swap out Betts for Devers. And I’m not sure why the Padres would do that deal at all. If you think they want Price, then Price for Myers straight up is about fair if no one is sending cash.
Nice fairy tale trade. Sheesh, these Red Sox fans are unbelievable. Let’s get back to the real world.
Gore is the one prospect I think Preller won’t trade
Brain dead proposal
“Price is not well-liked in Boston and crumpled under that pressure”, Really….. sure didn’t look that way when he put the team on his back and was the main reason why they Won the WS in 2018.. I understand the Gore/ Groome statement… I do like Groome but I feel he is probably a year behind Gore in getting to the Show….. I also see another person’s thought on Sox receiving too much in regards to the amount of Prospects… maybe you take Ruiz out from Dodgers give and insert another prospect that goes to Padres instead. My point is all three teams can get better with this deal… and from a Dogers standpoint … you do this only if you are going to allocate your resources to sign Betts long term.
Sure, his 2018 performance salvaged how he is looked at, but most of the Sox fans I talk to still do not see him as a leader in any way, and nearly every Sox fan still wants him gone, clearly including you. Sure, now take out Ruiz (the lowest rated prospect in the deal) and assume Betts signs and extension, which all reports say he will not, and this maybe makes it a bit more palatable for the Dodgers (even though they still lose Ruiz too). This does not change the Padres giving up Gore and NOT getting Betts. You see benefit, but you are completely missing the facts indicating that Betts very likely isn’t resigning and the Padres (close to 100%) will not give up Gore under any circumstance, and especially not in one where they don’t receive a superstar AND take on $65+M. Though I can squint and see benefit to all respective teams, I cannot unsee the clarity that the Red Sox have the least amount of risk in this deal and receive a windfall, scratch that, an absolute avalanche of benefits.
Never going to happen.
On the SD side, I like Price better than Myers, but the contract make them close. And SD is not going to swap the best pitching prospect in the majors, plus last year’s #1, and a high-ceiling RP for the Price/Myers flip, plus a very good prospect in Verdugo, plus a > 100 prospect in Groome.
LAD won’t trade May straight-up for Betts, let alone throwing in Verdugo & Ruiz.
Friedman has yet to give out a $100mm+ contract with the Dodgers. What makes you think he’s going to shell out $350mm+ to Betts or however much he’ll get? He was willing to supposedly to give out a $300mm+ to Cole, but something tells me Betts is a rental, like Machado was. Large contracts not Friedman’s M.O.
I think the Padres make more sense for Betts and something like this seems fair to me:
Padres give: Lucchesi, Campusano, and Morejon along with Myers and 10 Million per year for his deal
Red Sox give: Betts.
then a separate trade with the Dodgers where:
Dodgers give: Gonsolin and Peters
Red Sox give: Rodriquez
All teams benefit. Boston gets their new top prospect in Campusano and a replacement for Rodriguez in Lucchesi and a potential replacement for Betts in Peters while also getting under the CBT for the year. Padres get Betts and get out of some of Myers deal without losing anyone in their top 3 prospects. And the Dodgers get a solid starter that rounds out their rotation.
The Dodgers just got Alex Wood and Jimmy Nelson, they don’t need and probably don’t want Rodriguez, especially at $8M. I don’t think it makes any sense for the Padres to be in on Betts, what are they trying to do with him? Sell a couple more tickets and jerseys? Betts isn’t going to turn San Diego into a contender, they’re better off waiting a year and signing him in the offseason.
Also LA has a rotation of Kershaw/Buehler/Maeda/Urias/May/Gonsolin/Strippling they have depth for days! So taking Price in a Betts deal is just releaving BOS of a heavy contract.
“a replacement for Rodriguez in Lucchesi and a potential replacement for Betts in Peters ”
Neither of these equate.
Are you talking about Joc Pederson when you say Peters ?
DJ Peters
anyone who thinks LA is going to trade Pederson and verdugo for Betts needs their head examined.
How about a three team trade?
Dodgers get Mookie Betts
Padres get Robinson Ortiz
Red Sox get Wil Myers, Alex Verdugo, Francisco Mejia, Adrian Morejon, Hudson Potts and the Padres pay $2.5m of Myers’ contract per year for the remainder of his contract + the buyout of his club option for 2023
And the Red Sox achieve how much salary savings ?
Whatever Betts is making plus $2.5m minus whatever Myers is making