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Astros Hold Press Conference On Sign-Stealing Scandal

By Jeff Todd | February 13, 2020 at 9:21am CDT

In the latest confounding development out of the Astros organization, the club held a curious press conference today regarding the team’s still-boiling sign-stealing scandal. Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle is among the reporters covering the event on his Twitter feed.

In a long-awaited moment, star players Jose Altuve and Alex Bregman offered only cursory statements on a matter that has sparked outrage from many quarters. Team owner Jim Crane had new manager Dusty Baker ask for forgiveness on behalf of a team he only just joined. And Crane continued his attempt to confine a controversy that has morphed into a broadening crisis, offering what came off as a dismissive take on the matter.

Bregman stated that he is “really sorry” and added that he “hope[s] to regain the trust of baseball fans.” Altuve expresed “remorse” and said that “the whole organization feels bad about what happened in 2017.” That was all for now.

Crane also brought out Baker, who replaced the uniformed leadership (A.J. Hinch) from the periods during which the Astros engaged in a longstanding, widely suspected and ultimately discovered effort to steal signs utilizing technology and then convey those signals to batters in real time. The widely respected Baker asked for forgiveness on behalf of the players. Suffice to say, it was curious to ask him to do so.

Baker said the players “showed tremendous remorse, sorrow, and embarrassment” in a private team meeting last night. Perhaps we’ll hear more of that when the Astros open their clubhouse to reporters, but it was not quite on display in the initial comments.

Most of the talking was done by team owner Jim Crane, who continued to try to separate himself and the team’s players from the fiasco. He pinned the blame on Hinch and GM Jeff Luhnow, both of whom Crane canned in the aftermath of the release of the findings of MLB commissioner Rob Manfred.

Crane says that he agrees with commissioner Rob Manfred’s decision not to punish the players involved in the scandal. The organization’s “leaders enabled, condoned, and did not stop” the sign-stealing effort. Crane called the players “a great group of guys” who merely lacked “proper guidance from our leaders.” It’s quite a contrast to Manfred’s report, which specifically described a “player-driven effort.”

Crane not only sought absolution for the players he’s still paying to perform on the field. He also left no doubt as to his views on his role in the situation — namely, that he had nothing to do with it. While he panned Hinch and Luhnow for their failure of leadership, Crane evidently feels no similar responsibility.

Per Crane:

“Clearly the report states that I didn’t know about it. Had I known about it, I’d have done something about it.”

And what of his accountability, as the organization control person?

“No, I don’t think I should be held accountable.”

Crane’s rather craven approach to the matter continued as he addressed several other notable points. He acknowledged that the organization “broke the rules,” but maintained that he does not believe the sign-stealing effort had any “impact” on the team’s World Series win — leaving unaddressed the question why so much effort was put into the scheme. Frankly, no further proof beyond the concerted scheme is needed for the proposition that the people in uniform felt it improved their chances of winning.

Crane addressed the question of whether the team engaged in more recent, somewhat different cheating efforts: “I truly believe there were no buzzers ever.” Whether or not he’s sincere in that, the possibility of 2019 sign-stealing schemes is a matter that seems sure to be explored further.

Crane also noted there’ll “be some changes” in the team’s baseball operations department. He had originally maintained that the overall culture was not a problem, disputing Manfred’s report in that regard. But recent reporting has exposed the role of the baseball ops staff in originating and perpetuating the sign-stealing scheme. Several current employees were implicated clearly in a way that was not documented in the report.

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498 Comments

  1. bigdaddyt

    5 years ago

    Don’t see this going well

    18
    Reply
    • mistry gm

      5 years ago

      He knew. ALL the players knew. If they get by with this without being thrown out of baseball then Manfred needs to apologize to the 1919 White sox, admit Joe Jackson to the hall of fame, legalize steroids and RESIGN! …What a mess.

      17
      Reply
      • Emilia

        5 years ago

        Amen!!!

        2
        Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          If crane really had nothing to do with it then he should be just as furious. He paid these clowns based on their numbers which were inflated due to knowing which pitch was coming. He knew wtf they were doing.,I hope altuve gets beaned repeatedly until he charges the mound then gets put in the icu after the beating he receives

          7
          Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          It’s gonna get uglier once they get on the field with the way they’ve ( mlb and astros) handled this. Believe that

          8
          Reply
        • toptekjon

          5 years ago

          I don’t want to see anyone get physically hurt, but I’d be shocked if there are not multiple fights involving Astros this year.

          I would also be worried about what happens when they go into Yankee stadium. Yankee fans are beyond angry, and it could get ugly. Really ugly.

          7
          Reply
        • The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

          5 years ago

          Could you imagine Puig facing them on an opposing team? It would look like a Royal Rumble.

          3
          Reply
        • RunDMC

          5 years ago

          Him knowing is really beyond the point. He’s guilty by association. He’s the owner — ALL OF THIS reflects on him, his family and his brand, like it or not. You can scream until your death that you didn’t know, or you could accept responsibility, acknowledge the errors, right the wrongs and allow MLB to decide your ultimate fate, which, I believe, is what has happened. But P.R. Mistake 101 is deflecting any responsibility as the owner and degrading your position and responsibility. It’s not like this operation was done in secret using highly-intelligent means. If nothing else, by forgoing any knowledge you only make your role with the brand appear frivolous. Classless to allow a seasoned manager like Dusty Baker be your puppet and apologize for something he had no role in whatsoever. Starting out this relationship on a bad foot – can’t see this having a happy marriage. That’s the equivalent of asking your wife to publicly apologize for your affair.

          Do you think any of this will change by bringing in Crane Jr. to help learn the family business and run the operation? Good luck, Stros. I’ll be part of the boos at nationwide ballparks.

          4
          Reply
        • sambino

          5 years ago

          Imagine they play at dodger stadium as well!

          3
          Reply
        • MrAngelFan

          5 years ago

          If I was the owner of the opposing team, I would be ready petty about it. I would have a player hit the trashcan prior to every pitch. I would have mini bat and mini trashcan give away every time the Astros came to town. I would have the manager ask the umpires to pat down every hitter that came up every game. This would mess with their heads. The arrogance and lack of remorse bothers me and I am sure it bothers others as well.

          6
          Reply
        • andymeyer

          5 years ago

          Shawn hemp
          Regardless of how’s this makes this feel, wishing harm done to someone is pretty pathetic

          Reply
        • MrAngelFan

          5 years ago

          really petty*

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          I recommend everyone watching the interview and following it up with WWE Top Ten Championship Celebrations gone wrong.

          Reply
        • AllRiseForTheJudge

          5 years ago

          If CC hadn’t retired, you KNOW he’d drill Altuve in the eyes with a fastball the first time he faced him this year. Then he’d probably yell obscenities.

          CC was the man on the field.

          3
          Reply
        • AngelDiceClay

          5 years ago

          Puig is too busy flirting with his batting coach. He’s a lover not a fighter.

          1
          Reply
        • SashaBanksFan

          5 years ago

          Just did!

          Reply
        • realsox

          5 years ago

          I can see fans showing up in Yankee Stadium and elsewhere around the country with miniature garbage can lids and kiddie bats to bang them with every time a visiting Astros’ player steps into the box.

          1
          Reply
        • WAR_OVERRATED

          5 years ago

          They should know about:
          Vicarious Responsibility.

          1
          Reply
        • Redleg Roy

          5 years ago

          Like a lot of people I surmise, I planned to bring a trash can to games to beat on. Alas they aren’t on the Reds schedule. But I guarantee that’s a thing.

          Reply
        • takeitback

          5 years ago

          You realize that of all the players on the Astros, that Altuve was proven to have used the sign stealing the least, right? In fact, the data actually suggests that he may not have used it at all.

          So you look like a clown wishing that another human get physically abused when his involvement is questionable at best. Actually you look like a clown wishing someone gets abused over a baseball game, period! But, hey maybe you work for the circus.

          Reply
        • BobbyDynamite

          5 years ago

          they’ve been doing that in Oakland for years

          Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          If everyone was doing it where are all the videos of trash cans being banged from other teams huh? There’s a lot of video of astros hitters at bat and trash cans being banged giving hitters heads up of what’s coming. Yes when the team has someone on second and they can signal the batter to what’s coming then that’s fine but using video feeds and trash cans and buzzers that crossing a line. Idk why astros fans don’t get that

          1
          Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          Ok bud. Go suck altuve off then

          1
          Reply
        • Allen Adams

          5 years ago

          I say make Puig a bench player on the Astros to charge the mound when a player gets beaned… May as well hire Mike Tyson too…

          2
          Reply
        • isa408

          5 years ago

          Best comment I’ve read about this whole mess.

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          Awww we have a defender!

          Congrats, he only cheated a little. F you

          Reply
        • FearInnoculum

          5 years ago

          It’s funny, the Yankees hired Carlos Beltran as an advisor to the team last season, one of the main architects of the cheating scandal, yet the fans and the MLB refuse to even glance in their direction…that’s like hiring Herman Goering or Goebbels to help run your government after World War 2 but then claiming your replete of any Nazi ideology at all, period…Cora hinted towards the Yankees, so did other MLB players…Yankees and their fans, the MLB are a bunch of hypocrite jokes

          Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          Astros and their delusional fans point the finger everywhere but at themselves. No class. I’m sure Beltran came to the Yankees and made them implement trash can banging as a practice. Yet no video do u ever hear a banging on a trash can. But have hours of video of the astros banging on em. It’s a joke these fans and organization in Houston

          1
          Reply
        • thickiedon

          5 years ago

          Who signed Puig?

          Reply
        • VermonsterSD

          5 years ago

          I was always taught 2 wrongs don’t make a right. But their fans all seem to use the excuse that “everyone else is doing it”…..LOL

          Not to mention trying to say that they didn’t gain any advantage from it…… Sure, so why do it????

          Reply
      • Vin Scully

        5 years ago

        And reinstate Pete Rose and put him in the Hall Of Fame.

        9
        Reply
        • amazing larry

          5 years ago

          No no no no no no no

          Reply
        • toptekjon

          5 years ago

          He has paid his dues and belongs in the HOF. If Rose only ever bet on his own team winning, I say let him in already!

          8
          Reply
        • toptekjon

          5 years ago

          Betting on your own team to win in this case, points more to arrogance and ignorance. Not intentional cheating in any way.

          2
          Reply
        • Tha Dilla

          5 years ago

          Rose will never be in the HOF cause of relations with a 14 year old when he was 34.

          1
          Reply
        • RunDMC

          5 years ago

          …or Pete Rose can be the official spokeperson for MLB for FanDuel and rake in millions (if they haven’t already approached him).

          Reply
        • Tiger_diesel92

          5 years ago

          Pete rose continues denying the claims he did bet on games as a manager and player. Stop lying and be stuck up in his ego. That’s what these players do every time they lied about everything only to know when they get caught breaking the rules they deny those claims when’s there proof.

          2
          Reply
        • jakeabbey05

          5 years ago

          What seems to be forgotten in all of this Pete Rose garbage is when Bart Giamatti banned him Rose signed a document agreeing to the lifetime ban.
          He’s a slimeball.

          1
          Reply
        • Vin Scully

          5 years ago

          So what. Many of your sports heroes are slimeballs. Rose was one of the best who ever played the game. He deserves to be in.

          4
          Reply
        • Vin Scully

          5 years ago

          yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

          Reply
        • TradeUp

          5 years ago

          I agree 100% Rose should be in the hall.

          4
          Reply
        • tiredolddude

          5 years ago

          That’s a new one. When? Where? Sounds like National Enquirer material. Or Felipe Vasquez material. Never heard this about Rose

          Reply
        • Manfredsajoke

          5 years ago

          @ tiger. He did admit to betting on his team to win. Pete Rose might not be the best human but he’s the all time hits leader. He’s been banned for 30 years. It’s beyond time to let him back. Lots of people have done less time convicted of murder by a jury.

          4
          Reply
        • jb10000lakes

          5 years ago

          Because if he only bet on his team winning, one would have to surmise that he, as the manager, would pull out all the stops to win that one game, to the detriment of the others. How? Line up your ace pitcher and keep all your best relievers well rested before that particular game; Use your full “A” team lineup instead of inserting your role players intermittently into games to keep them fresh. Doing these things affect the other games played around them.

          Reply
        • claude raymond

          5 years ago

          31 years, 116 days and counting

          Reply
        • Redleg Roy

          5 years ago

          It’s not the hall of morality. It’s the place to recognize the best in the game. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, but Pete is one of the top 10 players to ever play the game.

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          He a pedo. This isn’t about Pete rose. Stop bringing it up

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          HE F***d’d KIDS. WHY DO YOU IDIOTS WANT TO IGNORE HE FKD KIDS. MY GOD

          PETE ROSE DESERVES NOTHING

          Reply
      • wordonthestreet

        5 years ago

        Right on Mistry

        Reply
      • Halo11Fan

        5 years ago

        Landis did not have to deal with Unions. Manfred can’t do anything to the players without the Union’s consent, which they will never give.

        Reply
      • dajohnston330

        5 years ago

        it’s a different time period than 1919. there won’t be any one thrown out of baseball. punishment in all sports has changed. remember smu got the death penalty for paying players. the bush issue at usc where they got what scholarships taken away and bowl bans. the worst and I mean worst was penn state where those in charge knew of child abuse and endangerment and did nothing. what punishment did they get? loss of scholarships and bowl bans. if you’re not going to kill a program or blacklist them forever then no astro player or anyone from any team that “steals signs” should get the same. that is my opinion

        Reply
        • Amp

          5 years ago

          Mich.St was just as bad because that was an actual cover up. And they got nothing as bad as PSU.

          Reply
      • bentkarnes

        5 years ago

        Yep…..and let Pete Rose in!

        1
        Reply
      • 55bums

        5 years ago

        All this proved is that the owner is as clueless and classless as his players

        1
        Reply
        • compassrose

          5 years ago

          On FOX Sports they showed part of the interview with the owner. He said the sign stealing had no affect on the game. Later he was asked about that again. He said he never said that when he clearly did.

          When you lie it is always harder to keep things straight and you get caught in the lie. When you tell the truth your story stays the same. It is easy to keep things straight. If this guy can’t keep things straight in the same interview what does that say? Like others I believe being the owner of the team deserved some punishment besides the fine.

          1
          Reply
      • genre99

        5 years ago

        Right on brother!

        Reply
      • Tobert

        5 years ago

        Agree 1000%

        Reply
    • ElysianPark

      5 years ago

      I am SO glad they apologized to the Astro fans and to no one else. Poor Astro fans were forced to witness their team’s victory parade. How unfair! Yep, suffering Astro fans.
      Let’s all scurry to sweep this under the rug and “move forward.” I love that one. No apologies needed to the teams the Astros fleeced! No apologies to their fans. Get over it!

      7
      Reply
  2. marrtho

    5 years ago

    They have to take away the title. That was an absolute train wreck. Goodness.

    25
    Reply
    • prov356

      5 years ago

      That can’t and won’t happen. It’s impossible to quantify the specific impact it had on their record.

      5
      Reply
      • fsrasmd

        5 years ago

        That doesn’t matter. We know they cheated in 2017. They won the World Series in 2017. That means their World Series victory is tainted. It also sends a clear message to all of the other players, both present and future, that cheaters will not prosper.

        23
        Reply
        • prov356

          5 years ago

          That’s my point. There’s no way to know that they would have lost the World Series but for the cheating.

          2
          Reply
        • empirejim

          5 years ago

          You don’t take the title away because you believe the cheating won them the title, you take the title BECAUSE they cheated.

          32
          Reply
        • marrtho

          5 years ago

          Well in that case, every team should do it if the repercussions are this soft. It is an unprecedented scandal that should warrant unprecedented punishment.

          8
          Reply
        • Astros44

          5 years ago

          please explain how this different than the steroid scandal other than the evidence suggests theres only 1 team implementing this strategy (bc they’re the only ones investigated?). We know half the roster was on steroids with the yankees 20 years ago. Shouldn’t they have set the precedent back then? Any team caught cheating throughout an organization gets their titles revoked. The steroid scandal was top-down organized cheating just like sign stealing using illegal technology. Both should be penalized but why does 1 warrant taking a title away but one we give everyone involved a free pass?

          5
          Reply
        • Big Hurt

          5 years ago

          Don’t be a homer, bro.

          7
          Reply
        • kwolf68

          5 years ago

          Outstanding point

          Reply
        • Astros44

          5 years ago

          I get that the astros are under the spotlight so they would be an obvious target to make an example but if Manfred wants to really clean up the sport, shouldn’t he begin a mlb-wide investigation to find other teams that use similar strategies? Also implementing direct electronic communication between the dugout, pitcher, and catcher would immediately fix the sign stealing issue guaranteed

          3
          Reply
        • Halo11Fan

          5 years ago

          I don’t think it is amazingly different.

          The Union protects the players at the expense of the sport.

          2
          Reply
        • fox471 Dave

          5 years ago

          It is different my special friend because the decision to cheat with steroids is an individual thing. The Astros cheating was an organizational thing.

          6
          Reply
        • Big Hurt

          5 years ago

          Put down the shovel and step away from the hole. “My team cheated but I bet others did too!” is really not better than your first take. We have no reason, right now, to believe that other teams did anything even close to what the Astros did. Counter and using your steroid argument, the head size of 4-5 guys on every team grew larger as we watched back in the 90s, so yeah, every team was implicated back then.

          5
          Reply
        • luckyh

          5 years ago

          Evidence doesn’t suggest that. There’s only been one whistleblower so far.

          Reply
        • cxjxfx

          5 years ago

          Are you serious? LMAO, blind by your fandom. 29 teams and 29 teams fans know and believe the 2017 WS is tainted and was not earned. Keep your fanboy perception of this and live in that Astro bubble.

          7
          Reply
        • Vin Scully

          5 years ago

          Astros44 must be a Democrat. Lets investigate everyone for everything because my team was caught.

          10
          Reply
        • Emilia

          5 years ago

          To Vin: EXACTLY!!!

          5
          Reply
        • arc89

          5 years ago

          Steroids were not illegal until the late 90s. Just like sign stealing wasn’t illegal until after technology advanced. The difference is with the Astros is they knew it was illegal and still did it just like when steroids became illegal in baseball and people still did it. Because of steroids many players that would be a shoo in to the hall of fame is standing outside so there was punishment.

          3
          Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          The Mitchell Report proved steroids were not just individual. How do you think they spread in the first place? All these guys individually picked up juice dealers?

          1
          Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          Juice in baseball was banned after 91, don’t be misleading. They knew it was not allowed.

          3
          Reply
        • VinScullysSon

          5 years ago

          So you complain about Astros44 generalizing and then do it yourself with your “Democrat” reference. Nice.

          6
          Reply
        • Dodger Dogg

          5 years ago

          Jamie McCrook is our current ambassador to France & Monaco after she and Frank took the Dodgers to the brink of bankruptcy. She divorced him and got over $100Mil, stating in her divorce papers that she needed all this money because she got used to a rich lifestyle. It’s all public record. I guess any slimy crook can buy an ambassadorship with this current administration.

          1
          Reply
        • burtgummer

          5 years ago

          As ignorant as most of Vins posts are he got this one right

          1
          Reply
        • KnicksFanCavsFan

          5 years ago

          Half the roster? Petite was a Astro when he used. Arod was the only other. And no manager, coach or other team member aided any player who used. Try again.

          2
          Reply
        • KnicksFanCavsFan

          5 years ago

          There’s no evidence or accusations on any other team doing what the astros did, to that extent. Not sure exactly what the Red Sox “may” have done.

          1
          Reply
        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          And we all know that you are destined for sainthood due to your superior standards. I’m pretty sure that your closet has ABSOLUTELY no skeletons in it.

          Reply
        • Halo11Fan

          5 years ago

          Arc.. That’s not accurate. Steroids were illegal drugs therefore illegal. Vincent Spelled that out in a memo in the early 90s. He was powerless to do anything about it because the Union was so strong and it had to be in the CBA.

          Just like now, the CBA protects the players and Manfred is powerless to do anything about it.

          Reply
        • Steven Juris

          5 years ago

          That’s their job. Manfred protects the owners not the sport

          Reply
        • Halo11Fan

          5 years ago

          Steven Juris

          That’s right, but Manfred tries to protect the sport, because it’s in his self interest to protect the sport. The Union only cares about protecting their employees. Which for good or bad, is the same for all Unions.

          I’m really surprised that Manfred is getting so attacked when the players Union holds the power.

          1
          Reply
        • bobby clementhay

          5 years ago

          KnicksFanCavsFan: “Arod was the only other.” What planet are you living on? The list from the Mitchell Report: Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte (injected by YANKEES trainer Brian McNamee), Alex Rodriguez, Mike Stanton, Denny Neagle, Jason Grimsley, Jim Leyritz, Jason Giambi, Chuck Knoblauch, Randy Velarde, Jose Canseco, Glenallen Hill, and David Justice. Manager Joe Torre and GM Brian Cashman may not have “aided any player who used” but they certainly didn’t “put a stop to things”, which is precisely why Hinch and Luhnow were suspended and later fired. No supposedly “clean” Yankee tried to do anything about it, either (i.e. Derek Jeter).

          Reply
        • Cuso

          5 years ago

          Yeah, because guys like Bagwell and Caminiti weren’t using steroids then, right?

          2
          Reply
        • SLL

          5 years ago

          I can’t imagine Vin Scully dragging politics into a baseball discussion.

          2
          Reply
        • haq31907

          5 years ago

          Because with the steroids era, EVERYONE was doing it not just a particular team of two who won a world series off of it like the Astros and Red Sox.

          2
          Reply
        • Just_a_thought

          5 years ago

          Astrosfan44

          I get where you are coming from, but you should be the one pointing out the stark similarities between the 2. If you read half of the comments, you’ll see fans of 29 teams mapping out the differences. Make a good argument and actually show why they are the same.
          My take is that, in substance, these scandals aren’t vastly different, we have players making the choice to violate the rules after being put on notice that it is a violation. The key difference here is the approach the MLB took. Here, the players got immunity and the focus was to punish the Astros as an organization. For the steroids scandal, the method was to individually get the players to stop using. That was a bottom up approach (steroid) v. a top down (Astros). I see why you’d liken the scandals, but the point of the current scandal is to reprimand the TEAM, the fact that people think cheating of this magnitude should include an asterisk or taking the title away go directly to punishing team to the greatest extent possible.

          Reply
        • Halo11Fan

          5 years ago

          bobby clementhay

          I find it amazing that the manager of the of the most documented cheating team of all time, the 2002 Giants, was named manger of the Astros.

          Reply
        • haq31907

          5 years ago

          Because with the steroids era, EVERYONE was doing it not just a particular team of two who won a world series off of it like the Astros and Red Sox. You’re out of your mind to mention Yankee players from the 80’s and early 90’s to make your steroid point.. and some of your list didn’t use steroids, they used HGH or other things.. not to mention almost the entire mlb was using one or the other, including the red Sox with David Ortiz and Manny as well as that hothead Youkilis and Varitek. You can’t compare the steroids and HGH era to this. You’d still have to have hand/eye coordination and using real time technology along with strength and hand/eye coordination to know exactly what pitch is coming and how fast the pitcher usually throws, helps tremendously. Look at Marwin Gonzalez from the Astros.. he’s a career bum besides whhen he hit like 27 homeruns in 2017.

          1
          Reply
        • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

          5 years ago

          so just say Manfred should
          be accountable!

          Reply
        • billysbballz

          5 years ago

          Actually Derek Jeter and Mariano were scorned by the Mlb union head for publicly stating that they were in favor of blood tests. Now what you did there with your post was name players who were Yankees at one point in time but neglecting to add every other team these players played for and the fact that every team had large contingency’s of players using!
          One last note, major league pitchers to a fault will all state that they would much rather face a player using steroids then a player who knows what pitch is coming! These are facts!

          1
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        • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

          5 years ago

          no only certain PEDS were! not the new organic juice!

          Reply
        • empirejim

          5 years ago

          @ Astros44 The best you can do is say, “We’re no worse than the steroid guys”? And didn’t the Astros players get a free pass from the Commish? Tired of Astros fans trying to justify their TAINTED TITLE. They cheated all of us and shouldn’t keep those Rings.

          Reply
        • pojack

          5 years ago

          You think Canseco started using when he was on the Yankees? Giambi?Ever heard of the Oakland A’s? And Brian McNamee was Clemens trainer before and hired to asssist Clemens, he was never in charge of their strength and conditioning program.yankee. Half those players on the Mitchell report ( a report that somehow ignored the Reggie Jefferson connections) barely played for the Yankees. all teams had guys juicing, so far nobody is close to doing what the stros did.

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        • kzw

          5 years ago

          Both are penalized, just differently. 20 years ago, half of the players on all MLB teams were using steroids. It was a league wide problem, not a single team issue. Basically, team vs team, it was a level field. If we go stripping titles because of steroid use, all titles from the 80’s to the mid 2000’s would be stripped. It obviously wasn’t a level playing field between users and non users, thus individual suspensions are being handed out for those who test positive for performance enhancing drugs. If every team was illegally stealing signs, then again, it’s a league wide problem and the punishment would reflect that. This is not a league wide problem, it’s an Astros problem.

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        • claude raymond

          5 years ago

          31 years, 116 days and counting

          Reply
        • goastros123

          5 years ago

          In 2002, Pettite used something that would become banned later in 2005 but that’s beside the point.

          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          5 years ago

          Absolutely, but first he should punish the Astros players who were caught. This idea that everyone was doing it seems a bit false when so many players from other teams seem outraged by this whole thing. Sign stealing is of course commonplace, but it seems that the majority of baseball thinks the Astros went above and beyond the norm.

          Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        5 years ago

        I agreed with you for months, but more and more I’m thinking the only way to salvage this is to strip the organization of something. Maybe forbid them to display the 2017 flags in their stadium. Taking away the title seems harsh, but like you said it’s impossible to quantify the specific impact on their record. That goes both ways.

        1
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        • fox471 Dave

          5 years ago

          Their WS title needs to be vacated.

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        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          They were “stripped of something “. They were stripped of (1) their GM, (2) their field manager, (3) their 1st & 2nd round draft picks for the next two years. They were also stripped of their positive reputations,individually and as a team and as an organization. The latter was their own doing.

          2
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        • VonPurpleHayes

          5 years ago

          Every team would get rid of a GM, field manager and draft picks for a WS. None of the players who actually cheated were punished.

          5
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      • fox471 Dave

        5 years ago

        I hope you are kidding. The “impact” was that a team chested to get to the WS and cheated to win the WS. The “impact” was that players of every other team that the Astros played in 2017, 2018 and 2019 were cheated from having a level playing field for their series with the Astros.
        Should be pretty simple for folks that insist there is no way to measure the “impact” of the blatant cheating.

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        • fox471 Dave

          5 years ago

          Cheated not chested. Sheesh!

          Reply
        • bxcrunner

          5 years ago

          I’ve chested my way to many titles….no one really minded.

          3
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      • B-Minus21

        5 years ago

        Lol if cheaters are allowed to win and keep their winnings, cheating will never stop. If cheaters are stripped of titles, punished heavily and actually deterred from cheating again, cheating will still probably happen, but others might be less willing to help cover it up, hopefully making it less likely. Innocent players would also be stripped of a title, encouraging them to not just ignore and avoid it in the future.

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        • its_happening

          5 years ago

          Did gambling stop after the 1919 White Sox?

          Cheating will continue in any way, shape or form. Astros cheated better and were caught. Teams are always finding ways to gain an edge. Another team will come along and be caught doing something. Let’s stop pretending the Astros are the only team in the league doing something completely unethical to the game of baseball.

          2
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        • Big Hurt

          5 years ago

          Werealljustguestshere – are you suggesting that teams have intentionally thrown WS games since 1919? If so – let’s hear about it. Simply ‘gambling’ is not why they were punished so harshly.

          1
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        • B-Minus21

          5 years ago

          That’s such a lame excuse that people keep using. Have you kept up with this stuff? The entire league has been talking about the Astros for years. Not other teams, the Astros. This has been a widely known issue for at least 3 seasons. There are zero other teams in the same boat as the Astros. And if others do come out down the road, punish the hell out of them too. Lol not let’s just condone it bc you just assume everyone is as crappy as your team is.

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        • eddiemathews

          5 years ago

          There’s ‘gambling’, and then there’s throwing the WS gambling.

          Reply
        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          You’re absolutely positively correct. Now let’s take all of the HOF players who “cheated” &/or morally corrupt out of the HOF. Good bye Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Phil Niekro etc, etc.

          Reply
        • Steven Juris

          5 years ago

          How do you throw a WS by hitting .420?

          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          5 years ago

          This logic is silly to me. Since the Astros were caught there should be some repercussions for the players involved. Otherwise, why not do this again? Who cares if you lose your GM? You need to set a precedent.

          Will it stop cheating altogether? Of course not. Does arresting someone for a crime stop crime? No, but they should still face the penalties.

          Reply
        • its_happening

          5 years ago

          Big Hurt – I said gambling, you said throwing a WS. To answer your question that is not my suggestion. However, it would not shock me if players have thrown games for money and were never caught. But, the Black Sox scandal did not stop Pete Rose from gambling. Rose set the record straight in his second book after lying in his first book. So we really can’t take Pete at his word.

          Placing bets with money would be one of the definitions of gambling. Not sure what your angst is here except that you do not want to believe sports athletes are willing to do bad things. They are human and will get caught up in something they shouldn’t.

          Reply
        • kzw

          5 years ago

          The Black Sox scandal didn’t stop Rose from gambling because they were just banned because of gambling. They were banned because they were throwing games. Not just a regular season game, they threw the World Series. I’m sorry, but Rose and the Black Sox are two completely different circumstances.

          Reply
        • Eatdust666

          5 years ago

          It was the team that threw the 1919 World Series, not Shoeless Joe Jackson.

          Reply
      • bigdaddyhacks

        5 years ago

        You do know there are literally stacks of data that prove the effect of this right?

        The title has been stripped already basically, I would like to see multi year suspensions for players at this point.

        1
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        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          Everyone “knows” that the Patriots cheated but they still have their Lombardi Trophy’s.

          Reply
      • toptekjon

        5 years ago

        I think the trophy should be taken away, no banners should be allowed in their stadium, and official records should get an asterisk, at a minimum.

        We can’t guarantee who WOULD have won, but we know for certain that Houston didn’t earn it.

        4
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      • B-Minus21

        5 years ago

        So then cheating is condoned. There can literally never be punishment for cheating if you take this approach, so why have any consequence ever? If it had zero effect on the outcome of their season, there’d be no reason for them to cheat, and continue to cheat. Would they have won without it? When you cheat, you forfeit the privilege of defending that argument. Strip it.

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      • stan lee the manly

        5 years ago

        What a horrible argument. By your logic, if I was in school taking an exam and had the answers written on my hand, the teacher can’t possibly fail me because they can’t know how many of the answers I actually cheated on. If I’m a politician and my team is caught registering deceased people as voters, you can’t take away their election victory because you can’t know how much it affected the election. If I’m an employee for a company and I bribe, threaten, and blackmail possible customers into contracting my company, you can’t hold me accountable because you don’t know how much that actually affected their decision.

        This is a ludicrous take.

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        • B-Minus21

          5 years ago

          @stan lee it’s impossible to know who’s comment you’re replying to at this point, but yes we are in agreement.

          Reply
      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        They cheated

        It’s Illegitimate. You think they bombed Kershaw, Darvish and Morrow at the top of their game, always within 4-5 hitters. Gtfo.

        Believing anything less, you’re an Astros defender of cheating the most nefarious way in the last 100 years. Choose.

        Reply
        • prov356

          5 years ago

          Slaps – You don’t get to decide the choices and their meaning. If someone, like me for example, doesn’t believe the Astros should be stripped of their World Series trophy, it doesn’t mean that I support their cheating. That’s a tired tactic used by people to force others to think just like they do or suffer their consequences.

          Reply
    • lowtalker1

      5 years ago

      Nah baseball fans all around are happy that the dodgers lost twice so this is good

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      • fox471 Dave

        5 years ago

        It must be scary to be you, an actual human clown shoe.

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      • fox471 Dave

        5 years ago

        Clown!

        1
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      • VinScullysSon

        5 years ago

        I will never understand why people rejoice in a team losing. Isn’t it good enough to just rejoice in the wins and let the losing teams suffer a loss in peace? I’m a lifelong Dodger fan but I don’t want other teams to lose or to suck. I just want to watch great baseball.

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        • skyyalpha

          5 years ago

          @VinScullysSon totally agree with you, except I always want the Giants to go 0-162.

          Reply
        • claude raymond

          5 years ago

          31 years, 116 days, 16 hrs, 45 minutes…and counting

          Reply
      • Dutch Vander Linde

        5 years ago

        By next year is gonna be three.

        Reply
    • Hard to walk with four balls

      5 years ago

      Those players should be banned for life from the game just like Pete Rose.

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      • socalblake

        5 years ago

        and if they are not, then should Pete Rose be inducted into the HOF?

        Reply
        • eddiemathews

          5 years ago

          Yes. Pete did nothing to attack the integrity of the game. He was just stupid.

          Reply
        • Geebs

          5 years ago

          lol Pete Rose did nothing to attack the integrity of the game? HE BET ON BASEBALL GAMES HE PLAYED IN.

          Reply
        • AngelDiceClay

          5 years ago

          Abight Pete Rose bet on games he managed.

          Reply
        • its_happening

          5 years ago

          Roger Kahn would disagree.

          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          5 years ago

          Which is arguably worse. He had a direct impact on things like spread or the over/under. If he only wanted his team to score 3 runs, he made decisions to impact that.

          I’m a Rose fan, and I want him in the Hall, but to say “he just bet on his team to win” is missing the bigger picture. His managerial decisions were likely affected by his bets. It’s complicated.

          That being said, the fact that Pete was punished and guys like Bergman and Altuve are not really bothers me.

          Reply
    • wordonthestreet

      5 years ago

      Yes they must strip the Title!

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    • ElysianPark

      5 years ago

      The players had “no guidance” on what they were doing! Yeah, right….as if they didn’t know what was right or wrong. They cooked it up!

      They weren’t in kindergarten. They didn’t need guidance. They all are guilty.

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  3. bxcrunner

    5 years ago

    Bregman’s and Altuve’s comments will be taken as a joke. Too short, too little said.

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    • rondon

      5 years ago

      The players getting a total walk is what really looks bad. Fines and suspensions of players would have been a REAL statement.

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    • skyyalpha

      5 years ago

      They really shouldn’t have said anything at all. There’s nothing they could say, short or long, to change the fact that they knowingly and willingly cheated to win.

      Reply
      • Clayton Russell

        5 years ago

        They could have said, “here, take the rings back, we didn’t really earn them.”

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        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          You on the other hand have “EARNED” every single thing in your life, right? You have NEVER taken a short cut in all of your life. It’s really interesting, for the lack of a different term, reading all this judgemental stuff on here. Just be grateful that due to Jesus dying (& rising)for “All of (our) sins” that we are NOT going to be JUDGED the way that WE SHOULD.

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        • Clayton Russell

          5 years ago

          Cheating isn’t the same thing as a short cut. If someone steals something and gets caught, they don’t get to keep what they stole. And no, I’m not a cheater, how is that so novel? The only cheating I’ve done is against the AI in video games and guess what, I knew I didn’t really win when I did it.

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        • retire21

          5 years ago

          Jesus thinks the Asterisks are scumbags.

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        • goastros123

          5 years ago

          No, he doesn’t. Lol.

          Reply
    • wordonthestreet

      5 years ago

      I have lost all respect for Bregman and Altuve

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      • The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

        5 years ago

        You respected either of them before? All Altuve ever says is “We won and will do it again” and Bregman is just a pompous fool whose homeruns are lucky to clear the fence by more than 3 feet to begin with.

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        • Prospectnvstr

          5 years ago

          Ghost: I’m curious, how much success do you think you’d have against MLB pitchers? I think I’ll take Bregman’s barely clearing homeruns over what your stats would look like. Just saying…

          Reply
      • Prospectnvstr

        5 years ago

        And they are so depressed now that they have lost YOUR respect.

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        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          Just keep defending the bigger joke of a team in 100 years. Good hill to die on

          Reply
    • VinScullysSon

      5 years ago

      Ha. Altuve…too short. I see what you did there.

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  4. bad bruce

    5 years ago

    They should have had a South Park-esq, BP oil spill apology. If so I would honestly be ok with what they did in 2017.

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  5. Android Dawesome

    5 years ago

    The more they say, the worse it gets.

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    • VonPurpleHayes

      5 years ago

      You’re right. I’m baffled as to how a team’s PR can be this bad.

      Completely apologize and express remorse for 2017 and throw in a statement that we will gain back trust and prove how good we are by winning in 2020. Simple. All you need to say. No more passing the buck.

      4
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    • ElysianPark

      5 years ago

      Yes…utterly shameless

      They are only sorry they got caught.

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  6. oleosmirf

    5 years ago

    And to think I thought it was impossible to find an owner more out of touch than the Wilpons.

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    • tjettman

      5 years ago

      I read that too fast. On first glance, I thought you said “Tampons” lol

      2
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      • rememberthecoop

        5 years ago

        Well, at least they could stop the bleeding!

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        • clrrogers 2

          5 years ago

          Ha! Good one! 🙂

          Reply
      • Knucksie

        5 years ago

        Nah, you read it right.

        3
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  7. fsrasmd

    5 years ago

    I love how Crane blames a lack of leadership for this problem but then says his lack of leadership does not matter and that he should not be held accountable. How is this guy not a politician?

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    • tomjoadsghost

      5 years ago

      Exactly. Then he rolls out poor Dusty. The arrogance and tone deafness is astounding.

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  8. anthonyd4412

    5 years ago

    They ‘lacked proper guidance from their leaders’? These are 20-30 something year old men! I think they know it’s wrong to cheat.

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  9. grizz

    5 years ago

    Owner is responsible for his staff. He needs to be punished and the players do as well. The punishments handed down by the MLB so far have been complete and utter joke.

    6
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    • eddiemathews

      5 years ago

      Owner to employee (read Crane to Manfred): No, really…you should punish me.

      Reply
  10. fsrasmd

    5 years ago

    Oh, also, screw the Astros.

    7
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  11. puddles

    5 years ago

    Weak

    1
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  12. empirejim

    5 years ago

    So the organization that crapped on the game also craps on their mea culpa. No real remorse, no personal integrity.
    I have ZERO respect for the players

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  13. Halo11Fan

    5 years ago

    Who cares?

    They cheated, they are thieves, they are not being punished, they are not coming clean and the only fans they can convince of their sincerity are Astro fans who can’t defend their actions but point fingers at other teams.

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  14. All American Johnsonville Dogs

    5 years ago

    They’re only sorry they got caught. Not sorry they did it.

    Do first ask forgiveness later.

    It’s a travesty that Manfred knew about this and did nothing until a player went public. He needs to be removed as commish immediately.

    NFL has conduct detrimental to the league. Idk if MLB has similar rules but all Manfred does seems to be conduct detrimental to the league.

    Players should of been suspended minimum 80 games. You get caught cheating with PEDs its what 50 first time 100 second time? Pitiful that players weren’t held accountable.

    Wanna rule change Manfred? New rule: any form of cheating will result in fines, loss of draft picks, and player suspensions for 40 80 120 games depending on severity, involvement, and type of cheating.

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    • Halo11Fan

      5 years ago

      Why do you blame Manfred? Did you want him to go public that the 2017 World Series was a farce.? Don’t ever run a business run by unions because you don’t know what you are doing.

      September 15, 2017 he sent out an edict saying managers and and GMs would be held accountable. The players didn’t care. He couldn’t punish them.

      Manfred’s biggest crime is he thought he would be taken seriously, but the players knew their Union made that impossible.

      Blame the Union. Vincent sent out an edict about PEDs in the early 90s. The Union spit in his face. The players knew Vincent was powerless to stop them just like they knew Manfred was powerless to stop them.

      You need the players to say the sport is a farce. Thankfully they did.

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      • tomjoadsghost

        5 years ago

        Speaking for myself, I blame him for thinking slaps on the wrist makes this go away. The scandal is still expanding. This is worse than Black Sox and Pete Rose.

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      • All American Johnsonville Dogs

        5 years ago

        The NFL also has a union. Yet Goodell was able to suspend Brady during deflategate and suspend Jonathan Vilma during bounty gate, albeit tagliabue overturned the saints suspensions on appeal.

        This scandal dwarfs deflategate and bountygate which had circumstantial evidence, at best. Those scandals hinted at something wrong happening….but you couldn’t really “prove” anything.

        It’s not impossible to go after players guarded by the union.

        What’s the union going to do? Fight a battle they’d lose in the public eye? “Hey we are unhappy you’re suspending players who cheated”…. fans would be in an uproar moreso if the union tried to shield them from punishment. Plus other members of the union, Yankees Athletics Dodgers (those players) wouldn’t back the union defending the Astro players, guarantee it. If the players saw the union backing them I guarantee majority of the league would disapprove of the union doing so.

        1
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      • arc89

        5 years ago

        problem is they have not just did it in 2017. It started in 2016 and went through until 2019. There is no remorse from Altuve or Bergman but excuses. You want to show remorse open up how you were able to cheat so no other player will do it again. Just saying i feel bad is what you say when caught so it looks good for you.

        1
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      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        I blame manfred wbchase he’s part of the coverip. He’s lying to fans and thinking we’re dumb enough to believe it

        And the HOUSTON ASTRO FANS are the ones doing the dirty work and proving their own team cheated (some, clearly not the ones who comment here)

        Manfred should have said this is a bad issue with the Astros. He tried to hide it to protect his empire. Now it looks 100x worse

        If he said “they cheated from 17-19, started in 2016 blah blah blah… then these 2nd reports aren’t stunners. They’re just confirmation what he already said

        Instead? We get shock and anger with each new development, knowing damn well the Commish knew these facts and choose to not disclose them. We pay money to know we’re seeing a real game.

        What if you spent 1,500 a seat to game 7 of the World Series in 17? Don’t you feel like you deserve the truth?

        Reply
      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        Lmfao blaming the union

        Did the union stop PED suspensions? Banning? The results of the Cardinals or Braves scandals?

        NO. BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL CHEATERS. Union ain’t gonna defend the cheaters of the game With this type of evidence…

        Reply
  15. ziggydoc

    5 years ago

    That was a dog and pony show, they just want it to go away rather than just come out and say “we f….d up”
    With all the talk about it in 2019 the owner should have addressed it right away rather than turning a blind eye.

    Reply
    • eddiemathews

      5 years ago

      Man, if you want it to go away you don’t address it. What a ridiculously stupid thing to do.

      Reply
  16. ArianaGrandSlam

    5 years ago

    Jim doesn’t get how serious the situation is. The players can and will get a life-threatening hit-by-pitch EVERY time they go at bat probably until they give up the championship. I mean what kind of school says “Yes the student admits he cheated on the exam but we’re still keeping his score”?

    1
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  17. thunderroad19

    5 years ago

    The more they say (and don’t say) the madder opposing players will get. This is a real mess. At the very least Houston needs to offer to vacate the title. The only remorse that seems anywhere near sincere is what former players are offering to their new teammates…and that situation in itself has to be pretty awkward for all involved.
    Manfred’s too busy working on the TV deal for his playoff selection show to really care about the game.

    Reply
  18. VonPurpleHayes

    5 years ago

    Bregman, a player I like, is really losing a lot of credit with me. He has come off as nothing, but arrogant during this whole thing and has not once accepted any responsibility or remorse. They really need to hire better PR people to salvage this thing. This is going to be the most hated team in baseball unless there’s some more accountability.

    3
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    • grizz

      5 years ago

      Bregman is a dbag

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      • ncaachampillini

        5 years ago

        Amen brother. Or sister. Even before all this he was one of the biggest, most pompously arrogant dbags in the entire sport. Now he’s even more despicable. .

        6
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  19. TJECK109

    5 years ago

    Wonder if Antonio Brown is running their PR department

    7
    Reply
  20. mstrchef13

    5 years ago

    Wow. He really is detached from reality. I can really see him afterwards thinking “Ok, that went well. Moving on.”, and then not understanding why people keep bringing it up.

    2
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  21. empirejim

    5 years ago

    And the Commissioner has botched this every bit as bad as the Astros…….

    4
    Reply
    • hockeyjohn

      5 years ago

      Manfred is ruining the game. The cheating scandals happened under his watch. The new rules, some of which are ridiculous, happened under his watch. The new playoff idea with is terrible is happening under his watch.
      The imbalance between the larger and small market teams remains under his watch. I am very scared about the future of major league baseball under the watch of Rob Manfred.

      2
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  22. calrippen

    5 years ago

    dusty is used to managing cheaters

    Reply
  23. californiaangels

    5 years ago

    “oH I’m SoRrY” give me a break . better see some teams send some messages this year

    1
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  24. MiltonMan 2

    5 years ago

    This will not end well. If Houston isn’t more severely punished, all of baseball will be punished. It diminishes the sport. How widespread is cheating in baseball. What are we really watching. Some scripted entertainment?

    Reply
  25. 30 Parks

    5 years ago

    “Uniformed leadership” of Hinch is a stretch. The inmates were running the prison, that is Hinch’s fault.

    Reply
  26. gus911

    5 years ago

    I can’t believe that they are allowed to put out this BS. I’ve lost faith in the integrity of the game. Guess I won’t be supporting MLB anymore. If enough fans did this then maybe something would happen.

    3
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  27. antibelt

    5 years ago

    Back in the day, if you were caught cheating you were banned for life

    1
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    • VonPurpleHayes

      5 years ago

      Unfortunately this isn’t always true. Baseball has a long history of cheating, and even embracing minor forms of cheating. I think there was a chance to clean things up, but the fact that no players were punished in any way is ridiculous. Beltran will probably lose his HOF bid (which is a shame), but none of the other Astros suffered in any way.

      Reply
    • robertp

      5 years ago

      There’s nothing in the rulebook that says signs are a part of the game or that your team has a guaranteed right to protect it, enforceable by the MLB Commissioner playing supercop to do so. This “cheating” nonsense is overblown. EVERYONE steals signs and has been with wide varieties of methods dating back to the beginning of the game. The players acting all sanctimonious about it very likely participated in another version of it that might have seemed less egregious or brazen but still involved stealing signs.

      Even recently, everyone is acting like the technology bit is new except there are reports that the Sox and Yankees were stealing signs via electronic methods in 2017 as well and the Dodgers AND Brewers were called out for possibly doing it during 2018’s postseason. EVERY. TEAM. IS. DOING. IT. And this isn’t taking drugs or gambling… this is ruffling another of the unwritten rules of the game that keep making the game look amateurish whenever people start chirping about them.

      In Football, coaches have been putting play cards up to their mouths for YEARS. Why? Because teams hired LIP READERS to figure out what they were saying and signal back. Even doing so via what they saw on television broadcasts. It’s a part of sports. Just because one team was more sophisticated doing it, no team is owed the sanctimony of their signs. If they were, teams themselves wouldn’t be coming up with the tons of code switching they do to throw teams off.

      The more people complain about this and try to make a bigger deal of it than it is to cover for the fact that YES, your teams lost their games all on their own, the more they drag the sport through the public relations mud and help weaken it’s appeal to future generations. Yes, YOUR complaining about these kinds of thing actually does more to kill the sport you supposedly love than the actual sign stealing because sign stealing is a perpetual evolving thing that will not stop here and is as much of a part of the game as the actual sign creation is. It’s strategy in a reverse engineering type of way. It’s not truly going away even if Manfred thinks slapping some teams down might help. And dragging the sport through the mud by constantly whining about this is more harmful to the sport than anything the players do on the field to decode the signs teams have come up with.

      2
      Reply
      • marrtho

        5 years ago

        Not every team is doing. There is no substantial evidence against any team but the Astros. No one said you can’t steal signs, but using technology to steal signs is flat out cheating. Also, work on your grammar.

        4
        Reply
      • Geebs

        5 years ago

        Your entire sanctimonious speech is very off base, yes sign stealing isn’t against the rules but the use of electronics and the help of off field personal is what makes it against the rules. Also you mention 4 teams and then use that as proof that everyone is doing it.

        5
        Reply
      • phenomenalajs

        5 years ago

        Well said. I think the rules should clearly address what is allowed and what isn’t, then, if MLB and MLBPA sign off on it, the parties need to agree upon appropriate sanctions and enforce them.
        However, sign stealing doesn’t involve a direct physical change to the game. The players are not using PEDs as part of it nor are they physically altering equipment, such as baseballs, bats, bases, mound rubbers, gloves, etc. It’s a strategy. Unfair? Yes, but if the parties agree to either allow it or ban it, that decision needs to be done enforced accordingly.

        Reply
        • Geebs

          5 years ago

          The rules do clearly address the issue, sign stealing is not illegal, using electronics to do it is illegal, what isn’t clearly stated is the punishment.

          1
          Reply
      • eddiemathews

        5 years ago

        Yes, the Rockies’ pitching coach said that the Brewers were cheating. They were hitting sliders way better than they should have. Except statistical analysis finds that this is absolutely not true. It was sour grapes.

        Reply
        • Geebs

          5 years ago

          nothing you said is evidence, its anecdotal at best.

          1
          Reply
        • robertp

          5 years ago

          If reporters decide to dig in, you should be completely terrified of what they would actually find. They only bothered to dig with the Astros because Fiers played whistleblower to the press. They didn’t bother to dig on their own. Hence the only way you even know about Houston is a former player opened his mouth – something that is nearly unthinkable in the culture of unwritten rules.

          Also people to say I mentioned no evidence, Google is your friend on the Dodgers and Brewers accusations as well as the Yankees and Sox prior punishment. And we heard about Tony LaRussa’s White Sox scheme which, do you honestly think he never continued that going forward? Are you naïve enough to think that if Beltran truly was the muscle behind the cheating he wasn’t doing similar schemes as a Yankees player or on any of his previous teams?

          Opening up pandora’s box SINKS MLB because of the attitudes of fans and members of the media who are truly the sanctimonious ones here. The “CHEATER CHEATER” refrain paints the entire sport in a corner where the whole thing will crush fan interest the way the 1994 strike did or post-PED timeframe did for a while. However it’s worse now as the fanbase is considerably older and young kids aren’t coming to the game like they did a couple generations back. This nonsense is going to seriously damage the game and over what? Teams figuring out a way to read signs easier?

          I think many of you need to get a serious grip on reality. Any player can go back to their hotel, pop on MLB.TV streams and see every single Catcher’s signs. For every single game. It’s super easy to do and available nightly after the game ends. So if you play a 3 or 4 game series, you have the signs after night one. Then all you need to do on the field and find the opportune time to share the signs as you receive them since the decode work was already done.

          Stealing signs is going to be a part of the game as long as teams use signs. No matter how the information is transmitted. And yes, the signs are not sacrosanct. Baseball rules weren’t written to protect signs in perpetuity from interception.

          The answers here are easy:
          1. Move the replay room to the announcer’s booths at the top of stadiums and away from the dugouts.
          2. Allow teams to utilize electronic wristbands where signals for pitch calls and fielding positions can be quickly relayed to one another on a closed signal that is monitored at each game. No more hand signals and even the people watching at home don’t know what’s coming.

          1
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        • BobbyDynamite

          5 years ago

          I generally agree with your take — the current rules have regularly been disregarded for many years — decades, even — and public ire is being directed at the Astros mainly because Manfred has subjected them to more scrutiny than other teams.

          Because technology – not only cameras, but even devices that could intercept opposing teams’ wireless signals that are sent between dugout, pitcher, and catcher – are only going to get smaller and harder to police, I think the game needs to seriously consider decriminalizing “live electronic sign stealing” altogether.

          If all technological approaches to intercepting and decoding opponents’ signs are condoned as ethical behavior, suddenly enforcement of the rules becomes easy and the playing field is levelled. If the current rules are kept, enforcement is only going to get harder as the tech progresses and more than likely, enforcement efforts will be spotty and directed at certain teams more than others.

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          Robert Poole, you’re forgetting the most important part. Teams who cheat are lying to their fans, shattering the boundaries which separate a gentleman’s competitive, rule-enforced game with the wild west and garbage non-heroes.

          Ensuing evolution based upon false pretense places the sport, the players and organizations, the sponsors, and the fans in an ever swirling toilet heading straight down the pipe.

          1
          Reply
      • Col. Taylor

        5 years ago

        wow, just… wow

        Reply
      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        You ignore the Crux of the argument so you can write an essay defending the Astros

        Go away

        Reply
      • VermonsterSD

        5 years ago

        LOL…… A runner on second stealing the signs and relaying them to the catcher has always been part of the game. If the runner can decipher the signs that quickly, then more power to him. But, also part of the game was that if you got caught, you might catch a fastball in the ribcage next time up.

        But using an entire sophisticated spreadsheet, cameras, off field personnel, and a trash can, go way, way, way beyond that. It’s hysterical that people try to argue it’s on the same level……

        Reply
  28. Toksoon

    5 years ago

    They need to take away altuves batting title during that time frame aswell

    5
    Reply
    • VermonsterSD

      5 years ago

      Funny enough, if you saw the breakdown that one writer did where he reviewed over 8,000 pitches at Minute Maid park in that season, the trash can was banged only 2.3% of the time for Altuve. So not sure how much help he got. But many guys on the team were in the mid-teens, and someone was almost 25% of the time they were tipped. Crazy……

      Reply
  29. rr670612

    5 years ago

    The only time that I pay attention to crap is when I step in it.

    Reply
  30. HalosHeavenJJ

    5 years ago

    Yeah, we cheated but it didn’t help. We’d have won anyway.

    Crane is now ever single Patriots fan in the world.

    2
    Reply
  31. LordD99

    5 years ago

    Well, that went about as poorly as expected.

    2
    Reply
    • HalosHeavenJJ

      5 years ago

      Yep. Every single thing they’ve done since Taubman yelled at reporters has some how made them look worse than they already did. Which is something considering they look so bad already.

      2
      Reply
  32. thatdudetg

    5 years ago

    Crane is such a joke.

    You’re the owner. This is YOUR team. YOU take responsibility for all actions underneath you.

    2
    Reply
  33. gatewaytothebest

    5 years ago

    They are so sorry…….they got caught.

    4
    Reply
  34. windmill_noise_causes_cancer

    5 years ago

    *

    2
    Reply
  35. thatdudetg

    5 years ago

    As for the players… you’ll never regain the trust of fans outside the Astros organization.

    1
    Reply
  36. Jordan 5

    5 years ago

    Would they be remorseful if they didn’t get caught? NO. The only reason they are doing these “I’m so sorry tour” is management is forcing them to do it to save face for the organization. Players should be banned. Altuve is in the center of this thing and it seems like they are all pissed they even have to address this.

    2
    Reply
  37. Aj5258

    5 years ago

    To dismiss the players accountability and letting them completely slide on this is like a 20-30 year old criminal getting off because Mom didn’t give them “proper guidance” and let them do it. They knew exactly what they were doing was wrong and against the rules.

    2
    Reply
  38. GiantsX3

    5 years ago

    The Astros should relinquish the title on their own rather than waiting for MLB to take it if they really want to take responsibility.

    3
    Reply
  39. WonderdogLids

    5 years ago

    Hey Jose, the next pitch is a fastball….high and way inside.

    2
    Reply
  40. trianalife

    5 years ago

    If Pete rose gets banned for betting on his team to win, then these players need to get banned for cheating to win 100%. Vacate the championship along with stats and move on MLB. This team will lead the league with hit batsman this year no doubt along with on field delays. Just a trash organization if they don’t do anything but ask for forgiveness

    4
    Reply
    • number1dodger

      5 years ago

      Dude that’s what I thought.

      Reply
    • Rudy Zolteck

      5 years ago

      No proof he only bet to win. That’s the story he gave after he signed off on a ban and after years of denying it outright. Apples and oranges.

      Reply
      • DTD_ATL

        5 years ago

        You honestly think Rose would bet to lose as competitive as he is? Think about how he played the game. If you think he would bet to lose, which essentially means he threw games too, you’re out of your mind.

        1
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        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          He did it as a manager so how he played doesn’t really matter. You act like other major leaguers didn’t play to win. And quite frankly yes if you take his partying and coke and hooker habits into account. You’re basing your testimony off feelings. He had one story for years, signed off on a ban, then changed it. That doesn’t strike you as weird?

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          More like he would fk under age girls and MLB knew about it but didn’t want to make their all time hit leader be a pedo, so they agreed to the story he bet on games and buried the rest

          Amazing how you rose fans are ignorant to what happened

          Reply
    • Garmo87

      5 years ago

      Banishment was already an established punishment for gambling on games your involved in. Rose knew the consequences of his actions and has not accepted them.

      1
      Reply
  41. racosun

    5 years ago

    Dusty took two outta three in Houston in ‘17. Lost to Fiers.

    Reply
  42. MLBTRS

    5 years ago

    Now, the focus of the scandal should shift from the Astros to MLB officials who are making a lame attempt to cast the players as a bunch of adolescents who are exempt from adult punishment; just say you’re sorry and you’ll be able to go outside and play with your friends again. The team wouldn’t be engaging in this nonsense if they didn’t have full support of the MLB office.

    4
    Reply
  43. number1dodger

    5 years ago

    I say they still need to be a target with a high inside fastball. Every time they step into the batters box. They need to feel very uncomfortable. Is this the day I’m going to get hit. I would not be surprised if you see the Astros wearing extra padding.

    2
    Reply
    • MLBTRS

      5 years ago

      The days of baseball policing itself is rapidly diminishing but I’m not certain that the other teams look with much disdain on the Astros – they just got caught.

      Reply
      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        Go read the other MLBTR post

        Reply
  44. lavey

    5 years ago

    I don’t see how everybody thinks they are going to win the division in 2020. No one really knows how good these hitters are. There is a huge difference between knowing what is coming and just guessing. If Trout knew every pitch sent his way he would hit .380 with 80 HRs.

    5
    Reply
  45. puigpower

    5 years ago

    When you are caught there is no other solution than to take a public bath. Get the whole team out there and answer questions for an hour. Say sorry. Take responsibility. These guys are going to suffer for a long, long time.

    1
    Reply
    • Garmo87

      5 years ago

      Man up!

      Reply
    • Rallyshirt

      5 years ago

      Sorry Twins fans, you should be asking Marwin Gonzales to step up and apologize too.

      Reply
      • JustCheckingIn

        5 years ago

        He did? Much better than these clowns too

        Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          That’s good. I didn’t know. My bad.

          Reply
  46. astros_fan_84

    5 years ago

    Flags Fly Forever!!!

    Minor leaguers get cheated of a living wage…no one cares.

    A bunch of teams use technology to cheat…no one cares.

    The best team in baseball uses technology and wins…they are evil.

    The Astros will be punished with sold out games. Such a horrible fate.

    1
    Reply
    • MLBTRS

      5 years ago

      $50k and meal money for playing sub-standard is hardly short of a “living wage” (whatever that means).

      Reply
      • bobby clementhay

        5 years ago

        @lysander: MOST minor league players do not make anywhere near $50,000/year…

        1
        Reply
        • MLBTRS

          5 years ago

          All jobs have entry level positions and related pay scales, and it’s absurd to claim or even imply that a player is underpaid, simply because you believe it to be so. AAA Average is about $83K. When they get that far, they’re a lot more experienced and logically should be paid accordingly. If a 20 yr old A or AA player thinks he’s underpaid, he has the freedom to get another job or choose a different profession. It’s called the Free Market.

          Reply
    • bkbkbkbk

      5 years ago

      Y’all are going to see a 20% drop in Ops across the board. I don’t think you truly realize how bad this is going to get.

      Reply
      • Rudy Zolteck

        5 years ago

        Not really. They had Murderers Row numbers on the road in 2017 and kept it up in 2019. Their home/away split in the postseason in 17 wasn’t even as bad as the Yankees, so if that’s your standard of evidence you should investigate them too.

        Reply
        • bkbk

          5 years ago

          Just no.

          12up.com/posts/astros-home-vs-road-splits-from-201…

          Reply
        • Diggydugler

          5 years ago

          well thats because Yankee Stadium is a joke

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          WE ALREADY KNOW THEY CHEATED ON THE ROAD

          But numbers are the same so no way that happens! God your dumb

          Reply
      • realgone2

        5 years ago

        Just ignore him. Yet another troll on this site. It’s getting tedious.

        1
        Reply
    • Bashing Weiss

      5 years ago

      It’s gonna be a brutal season to be an Astros fan or Astros player. I wouldn’t be surprised if team is dismantled or players are asking to leave by the all Star break.

      Reply
      • Rallyshirt

        5 years ago

        Will also be a brutal season for Astros legal team.

        1
        Reply
    • Col. Taylor

      5 years ago

      *

      Reply
    • Javia

      5 years ago

      Who cheats? Winners don’t cheat because they don’t have to cheat to win. That makes cheaters LOSERS! It’s just like the man who stuffs a cucumber in his pants to make up for what he DOESN’T have. The Astros did not have the talent to win, so they cheated. Houston fans can all walk around swinging their cucumber stuffed pants around and feel like they are impressing everyone all they want. Trust me, everyone knows it’s a cucumber and you are just embarrassing yourself.

      1
      Reply
  47. youcannnnnputitontheboard

    5 years ago

    New drinking game idea: take a shot every time Jim Crane references the commissioner’s report.

    1
    Reply
  48. Dodger Dogg

    5 years ago

    HA! What a joke of an apology by Crane! Have Dusty Baker ask for forgiveness and throw Hinch & Lunhow under the bus while reminding everyone that he didn’t know anything about the cheating! This is a joke!

    Astros players, you knew what you were doing was against MLB policy!

    BOOOOO!!!!

    2
    Reply
  49. skyyalpha

    5 years ago

    Keep digging, Crane. Your grave will be six feet deep soon enough.

    Reply
  50. htxstunna

    5 years ago

    nobody was going to accept the apology so lets be honest. But right after that press conference the players were open to the media. Now they are showing accountability which is more than any apology. Even with them showing remorse and accountable people still won’t be statisfied. it’s a start in the right direction. Now they have to go out and win.

    Reply
    • Rallyshirt

      5 years ago

      A step in the right direction is MLB Network bringing Alex Bregman on to talk about his swing and what he does at the plate. Then, the center field wall opens and out comes Jim Thome with a bat.

      Reply
      • AtlSoxFan

        5 years ago

        Can we just have bregman dress up as a telephone pretending it’s for a mascot race and just let David Ortiz come from behind the wall?

        Reply
  51. Coal tender

    5 years ago

    I disagree, the players should be punished! Why send Dusty Baker out to apologize on behalf of the players – he had nothing (out of sight out of mind) whatsoever to do with this scandal. I think MLB should do a player dispersal of the current Astro roster right now! The NCAA destroyed the Southern Methodist University football program in the early 90’s on account of recruiting scandals, and the program suffered terribly for two decades.

    Reply
  52. ysmfbtd

    5 years ago

    I love that people say “this player has really fallen out of favor with me” as if any of the people saying that matter in the slightest. You fat ugly losers.

    1
    Reply
    • weezer17

      5 years ago

      Fat ugly losers? You must be an Astros fan to post such trash.

      2
      Reply
    • GOP Lizards

      5 years ago

      You are trash.

      1
      Reply
    • rondon

      5 years ago

      Are you in study hall right now?

      Reply
    • JustCheckingIn

      5 years ago

      That must be the metal bat the Astros used, sticking out of your a**

      Reply
  53. weezer17

    5 years ago

    Altuve knew what pitch was coming, and he won the game with a 2 run homer. The Yankees should have won that game and advanced to the World Series. If Manfred doesnt strip the Astros of their title and place a 2 year playoff ban on them, he should be removed from his position immediately.

    2
    Reply
    • Rudy Zolteck

      5 years ago

      That was not a hard pitch to hit haha why do Yankees fans still deny that

      1
      Reply
      • chino31

        5 years ago

        Then why aren’t you in spring training getting ready for the season. instead commenting on a baseball blog??

        1
        Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          I’m grading on a curve genius. I meant relative to other pitches. That was a hanger and Altuve could easily see that he should sit offspeed with how Reddick went down on sliders and Springer walked on wild fastballs.

          1
          Reply
  54. Garmo87

    5 years ago

    It speaks volumes of the Astros as people and as an organization. Why would any little league team choose to be Astros? The lack of character displayed in the penitence is louder than any token team statement.

    3
    Reply
  55. CardsFan77

    5 years ago

    How about a 1 game playoff.. Current rosters… LAD vs Astros… And no, they cant play it in Houston… I jist think it would be comical

    1
    Reply
  56. Garmo87

    5 years ago

    When compared to steroids, it’s not apples to apples, however cheating has had an effect on Hall of Fame voting. What happens if Altuve gets to 3000 hits? His legacy is already tainted and it is his decision.

    1
    Reply
    • Rudy Zolteck

      5 years ago

      OPS 50 points better on the road in 2017. He is a great hitter either way.

      Reply
      • fred-3

        5 years ago

        The Astros were cheating on the road

        6
        Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          You have as much proof for that as you have for any other team cheating on the road.

          Reply
        • fred-3

          5 years ago

          There’s a WSJ article that says they cheated on the road as well as cheated well into 2018. The only reason they lost in 2018 was due to Cora knowing their BS.

          2
          Reply
        • fred-3

          5 years ago

          Here it is
          wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-da…

          2
          Reply
        • rondon

          5 years ago

          Why would anyone ever think the Astros cheated on the road? Because of their high moral standards?

          1
          Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          Sox were still good in 2018. This also doesn’t explain how they replicated those numbers in 2019.

          Reply
        • fred-3

          5 years ago

          double post

          Reply
        • fred-3

          5 years ago

          Lol, you also think they stopped cheating in 2019? Why would they? They were never caught or punished until after this off season. Also, everyone under the sun were telling the Nats that the Astros were up to some shady ish. Hence why the Nats beat them and the Astros bats were silenced for much of the series

          1
          Reply
        • shawn hemp

          5 years ago

          Buzzers u mf idiot

          1
          Reply
        • Rudy Zolteck

          5 years ago

          If home/road splits are something you want to use as evidence then by default you have to investigate the Yankees, who got choked out even worse on the road in 17. And your sample size is 7 games. It’s not crazy to think that maybe the Nats were just better by their own merit and the Astros didn’t show up. They were the only team with starting pitching as good as the Astros going into the postseason, essentially, other than probably the Dodgers.

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          It’s been reported multiple times. F off you defender of people ruining the game, because they’re your team!

          Reply
        • JustCheckingIn

          5 years ago

          The nationals used twelve, brand new sign setups, only for the World Series

          That’s why Houston sucked. They COULDNT cheat

          Reply
      • mistry gm

        5 years ago

        Wrong. Re-read the stats.

        Reply
  57. soxzilla

    5 years ago

    Strip the title already, including the Red Sox championship, and I’m a Sox fan. NCAA strips championships when wrong doing is found, and this is the professional level.

    3
    Reply
    • AtlSoxFan

      5 years ago

      Wouldn’t you like to wait for some report or list of findings what-so-ever with regard to the red sox?

      Reply
  58. GOP Lizards

    5 years ago

    Absolutely no forgiveness. Quite a deal the players got. They get immunity, get the keep the status of WS champions, and the money that goes with it and don’t have to suffer the consequences other than public outcry. High hard fastballs all season.

    2
    Reply
    • htxstunna

      5 years ago

      The media is meeting with the players now. They sound more forgiving and taking accountability.

      1
      Reply
      • GOP Lizards

        5 years ago

        After they’ve been counseled. What penalties have they suffered? None!

        3
        Reply
        • htxstunna

          5 years ago

          MLB granted them immunity to get to the bottom of this. They could have been suspend for 50 games each and it still wouldn’t be enough.

          Reply
        • htxstunna

          5 years ago

          they weren’t counseled on their replies at their lockers. I would suggest to look up their replies instead of jumping to conculsions.

          1
          Reply
  59. Dodger Dogg

    5 years ago

    If The Players Union agreed not to step in on behalf of the Astros players, Crane would start the season with a Triple-A team!

    BOOO Astros!! BOOO!!

    1
    Reply
  60. Gogiants

    5 years ago

    Dude, if you truly understand how wrongful your actions were, cheating the game, THEN the next thing out of your mouth can’t be: “I hope to re-gain the trust of baseball fans.”

    The moment you got busted, your legacy got tarnished and there’s nothing you can do to regain that trust. What that means is things will never be the same Alex. These guys still don’t truly get it. They can’t seriously think people will sweep this scandal under the rug over time.

    When you hit a HR, the first thing people are gonna think is that you stole signs again. If you win the world series, the first thing people are gonna think is the Astros stole signs again.

    The numbers you put up from here on out don’t matter dude. Once a cheater, always a cheater. You and your Astros are done.

    4
    Reply
  61. Vin Scully

    5 years ago

    The Astros are cheaters that spit in the face of their fellow union members. How many millions of dollars wrongly changed hands on bets in Las Vegas? How many careers were artificially inflated due to cheating? Marwin Gonzalez is a prime example. Should the Twins sue for false representation of facts?

    1
    Reply
    • Rudy Zolteck

      5 years ago

      Not really, his 2018 was not good and on par with his production now, basically. And you still can’t prove they would have lost if they didn’t do this, or that they were the only team guilty of it.

      Reply
    • wordonthestreet

      5 years ago

      No the Twins should not sue …. get real

      Reply
    • VermonsterSD

      5 years ago

      Not just the careers that were inflated, but what about the careers that were DEflated? What about a rookie, who might have his shot at pitching in the bigs, gets thumped by the Astros. Subsequently, he’s sent down, never to be called up again? Can’t remember who it was exactly, but one opposing player referenced a case just like that maybe a month or 2 ago.

      Or, what about player contracts from the Dodgers, Yankees, or whoever else they played and cheated against? How many of them got bonuses for reaching or winning the World series? Just think of how many millions of dollars could have been affected.

      Reply
  62. rognog

    5 years ago

    These guys are scum.

    1
    Reply
  63. Lloyd Emerson

    5 years ago

    I cannot wait to see how the players on other teams handle this, between the lines, on the diamond. As a fan of the sport, everything about this makes me sick.

    1
    Reply
  64. mistry gm

    5 years ago

    Fans (real fans) want three things out of this. 1) Astros sold. 2) All players suspended. 3) Manfred must STOP the new rules and RESIGN.

    1
    Reply
  65. Aoe3

    5 years ago

    Will this affect Verlanders HoF chances? Hes one of the leaders of this team and didnt have any integrity to say this is wrong and we must do something.

    1
    Reply
    • The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

      5 years ago

      It should. Trevor Bauer has pointed out spin rate data that shows the Asterisks pitchers were using some sort of to-be-discovered substance on the ball to significantly increase their spin rate.

      They are an organization built on cheating in every facet.

      2
      Reply
      • AtlSoxFan

        5 years ago

        So can we expect Fiers to be a whistleblower on this claim too?

        Nah, he’d be implicated/guilty of wrongdoing himself on that one. He only would have interest in throwing others under the bus. He’s innocent.

        Reply
      • VermonsterSD

        5 years ago

        I didn’t see anything about a foreign substance, but rather that they used an uncalibrated machine type thingy to over inflate their spin rate on their pitchers to make them look better in potential trades, intimidate others, etc. Not sure how it worked, but just heard that a couple hours ago.

        Reply
  66. TrueOutcomeFan

    5 years ago

    “I should not be held accountable” is all you need to hear from Jim Crane.

    Reply
  67. whyhayzee

    5 years ago

    The amazing thing about this press conference was that the Astros knew the reporters’ questions before they were even asked.

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  68. sufferforsnakes

    5 years ago

    Crane called the players “a great group of guys” who merely lacked “proper guidance from our leaders.”

    Seriously? They’re friggin’ grown men, not kids. Stop making excuses. Stop lying.

    RELINQUISH THE TROPHY!! YOU DON’T DESERVE IT!!

    4
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    • wordonthestreet

      5 years ago

      Yea what a great bunch of cheaters .. oh I mean guys. Those poor players. Crane basically absolves them from responsibility. This is the press conference they called to do that.

      1
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  69. The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

    5 years ago

    Time for Altuve to go back to being a slap singles hitter that steals bases, rather than a 5′ 6″ guy who knows every pitch that’s coming and smashing them over the fence.

    Time for Bregman (and his punchable face and demeanor) to just go away.

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  70. dodger1968

    5 years ago

    Kershaw, Jenson, Darvish and other pitchers have to live with this ‘mark’ on their record. While this won’t impact Kershaw getting into the HOF, it still is an unfair mark on his record. Shouldn’t the violating players get some kind of discipline for the effect they had on these guys and others.

    1
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    • VermonsterSD

      5 years ago

      I wonder how many of them had bonuses in their contracts if they won the world series. How many players had something like that in the Astros’ cheating path, and how many millions of $$$$ was lost…..

      Reply
  71. Cubfan Mike

    5 years ago

    Other teams catchers need to put down 10 fingers and then plunk the batter. Then when 10 fingers get put down and the batter moves out of the way before the pitch is thrown we got them cheaters. Lol

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  72. dbrooks22

    5 years ago

    Just get this over with before spring training ends. I think that the players should suffer as well with suspensions. Manfred stop making new rules and finish this investigation.

    1
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  73. rondon

    5 years ago

    This is how a union can lose credibility. It’s one thing to ban together to overcome unfair labor practices and to get rightfully compensated for services rendered. It’s another to blindly defend members who have been proven beyond a doubt to have cheated at the very profession they’re being paid for. You can’t credibly have it both ways.

    1
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    • retire21

      5 years ago

      As a union member in my current job and a former job as well, remember that these sports player associations bear precious little resemblance to a common laborer’s union.

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      • rondon

        5 years ago

        I am as well. But my union has taken some stands in my name, that I thought benefited the union leaders, not me.

        Reply
  74. kenphelps44

    5 years ago

    The Houston Asterisks new logo *

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  75. Judge_Smails45

    5 years ago

    Astros will break the record of most fights this year. They all deserve to be punch or thrown at.

    1
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    • Frisco500

      5 years ago

      I still believe Cheating garbage like them probably had a way for their pitchers to cheat as well. Steroids or who knows what. (Think Roger Clemens) Look at the turn around Verlander had in Hou. Cole becoming so dominant. Charlie Morton, etc…

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      • VermonsterSD

        5 years ago

        Be interesting to see Cole’s numbers this year……

        Reply
  76. Vizionaire

    5 years ago

    you call that apologies? what about ’16, ’18 and ’19?

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  77. The_Porcupine

    5 years ago

    As a die-hard Astros fan, I have to say that was a lame response. While I maintain that sign stealing and technology driven spying on clubs is more widespread than is being mentioned, the Astros were just too arrogant and brazen in their attempts. And this response does nothing to change that arrogance. I don’t feel the title should be stripped, the same way individual stats and awards from the PED era weren’t. The PED users have suffered years of backlash and ostracization with no real end in sight. I expect that the Astros will be receiving that same punishment for the rest of their times in the league and beyond. The damage their legacy will be worse than anything Manfred could do. I would have a hard time seeing any player from that time period ever sniffing an award or hall of fame recognition ever again.

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    • goastros123

      5 years ago

      Agreed.

      Reply
  78. ScottCFA

    5 years ago

    This lack of contrition from Crane and the players is disconcerting to say the least. MLB should appoint former FBI director Louis Freeh to investigate all of MLB, including the Astros and Red Sox. Make his report public without filtering through Manfred, the owners, or MLBPA. Allow Freeh to recommend punishment, including of players. Stripping Houston of its 2017 championship and clawing back the resulting player bonuses would probably be only the beginning.

    1
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    • chesteraarthur

      5 years ago

      Wait, who is, “MLB” if you’re excluding all of those parties?

      Reply
  79. amjr

    5 years ago

    Feeling remorseful? Then auction your 2017 World Series rings and sell them to the highest bidder and donate all the proceeds to a charity of your choice.

    1
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    • Vizionaire

      5 years ago

      $3.00 reserve?

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  80. sufferforsnakes

    5 years ago

    I’m going to post this question on this thread, too:

    Do you think the first Astroisks regular who comes up to bat in the first spring training game gets plunked?

    Reply
    • The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

      5 years ago

      I doubt it. A ton of guys in Spring camp are just A and AA guys trying to make the big show. Now when the regular season starts, Bregman and Altuve better be wearing Barry Bonds-like body armor on every exposed inch of skin.

      Reply
  81. Frisco500

    5 years ago

    Relinquish your titles you bunch of phonies. Only rings you should have is in your ears from all the garbage can abuse. Crane, the players, as well as their name and logo, are just an eyesore at this point. I wish they all would just go away.

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  82. Rangers29

    5 years ago

    Being a Rangers fan… I love this… The Houston Astros are burning down their organization in every way. Bad pr, terribly run FO, and arrogant players all combine for a perfect storm of terribleness. The Silver Boot Series between the Astros and Rangers next year is gonna be on fire with a new stadium and a new controversy.

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    • Randy_Watson

      5 years ago

      LMAO even despite all this, the Rangers will still lick the Astros silver boot for quite some time! A new stadium won’t change that lmao

      Reply
      • clk93085

        5 years ago

        Yeah Randy I’d rather root for a team that has integrity then to root for trash. But I guess garbage recognizes garbage eh?

        Reply
  83. 66TheNumberOfTheBest

    5 years ago

    They SHOULD strip the title, but they won’t.

    They SHOULD punish the players, but they won’t.

    They never will.

    What SHOULD happen, though, is for the asterisk to be official, for all time…

    2015- Kansas City Royals
    2016- Chicago Cubs
    2017- Houston Astros*

    *Caught cheating.

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  84. BlueSkies_LA

    5 years ago

    More crocodile tears from the Astros. Crane is being allowed to skate on his responsibilities to run a clean organization because the other owners have his back, for now at least. They collectively want this scandal to just go away, same as they hoped the PEDs scandals would just go away. And how did that work out? MLB has only six more weeks to get ahead of this scandal. When the season starts and the fans get to raise their voices collectively everywhere the Astros play this year, it will get a lot uglier. Then, maybe, MLB will take serious action to sanction the people at the top of the organization who let this happen. It sure seems like they aren’t going to do it before.

    Reply
  85. chesteraarthur

    5 years ago

    Sorry, most people aren’t dumb enough to buy that this was all Lunhow & Hinch and everyone else was clueless or just following directions.

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  86. 2001morecowbell2001

    5 years ago

    Ohhhhh man are there gonna be some batteries thrown in Yankees stadium. You think the LA parking lots were dangerous before? Good job MLB. Vigilante justice will be the only way they get punished unfortunately.

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  87. Donald225

    5 years ago

    Let me preface my comments by saying that I am a lifelong Astros fan. I probably watch 130 games a year and have for over thirty years. I drive five hours two or three times a year so I can watch them in person (I don’t live in Texas). So I understand that my opinion may not matter to you guys because I’m “one of them”. And I get that and respect it. I’d probably discount your opinion too if the situation was reversed.

    That said, I believe the Astros are wrong and deserve the punishment that MLB gave them. To be honest, even though the penalty was harsh, I’m not sure it was enough. I don’t think you can undo the past and I personally think the Astros win the 2017 series even if they hadn’t cheated. But we’ll never know. As much as it kills me to say it, I think the Astros, in addition to the loss of two years of 1st and 2nd round draft picks, should have received two years of playoff disqualification as well.

    The cheating has to be stopped and MLB banning them from playoff contention would have been devastating. That’s how you really get a teams attention – by making them play for a couple of years – with nothing to play for. It would have killed attendance, killed revenue, killed morale, and honestly would have given most players no reason to sign with the Astros for those two years. I can’t think of anything that would have been more serious.

    The “press conference” this morning, as a fan, was embarrassing. Crane took no responsibility and Bregman and Altuve both looked like they were reading a team issued script right off the page. There was nothing believable about this. I watched Bregs play his college ball here at LSU. He wouldn’t remember, but I’ve actually met him once before. Altuve has been my favorite player for years. I’ve always loved his hustle and the way he hasn’t let his size dictate his play. He’s always impressed me, always been humble, always been a great teammate. You guys wouldn’t know that because you don’t have the opportunity to see him play every night, don’t see all of the post game interviews, don’t see his community involvement – but he’s always been a favorite of mine. But this morning, that was a joke. And it makes me sick. It’s hard to be an Astros fan right now.

    One last thing though. I don’t think for a second that this is isolated to the Astros. I toured a facility here in town two weeks ago that is one of the largest producers of products for MLB. I won’t mention names, but you guys can do the math. The guy giving us the tour (which was amazing) talked about the cheating stuff and he said that anyone on the “inside” of MLB circles know that this is a league wide issue. The Astros got caught. The Red Sox were caught a couple of years ago and we’re going to find out more about them soon with Cora. The Yankees were investigated for sign stealing. The Cardinals broke into computer systems and stole player info. The Braves were busted for breaking other rules. The bottom line is that all teams are cheating in whatever ways they think they can get away with. MLB covers as much of it up as they can because this isn’t a game – it’s a business and anyone who doesn’t believe that is just kidding themselves. Do any of you honestly believe that MLB itself isn’t tampering with the game constantly? Do you really not believe that those baseballs we’re juiced last season? We all know they were.
    So yeah, the Astros cheated, and it’s stinks. And they 100% deserve whatever MLB gives them. But as a fan, please don’t be so naive to believe that most of the other teams aren’t doing their own cheating. I’m tired of people laughing at me because of who my favorite team is – but I’m even more tired of the rest of baseball’s self-righteous nonsense. Baseball is a business and every team out there is pushing the lines to see how they can gain and edge and how far they can push without being caught. And MLB themselves are doing the same thing.

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    • The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla

      5 years ago

      Just to make it clear Astros fan, no one has any issue with you being a fan of the team. It’s actually sad what the team did to their fans by invalidating everything that they accomplished. It would suck to have to explain to a kid living in Houston that his heroes Jose Altuve and Alex Bregman are nothing but lousy frauds.

      But those players are terrible, sad excuses for “professionals”. If they get jeered, thrown at, and their lives made miserable all season at other parks, they deserve all of that and more.

      1
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    • Frisco500

      5 years ago

      Sorry they put good fans like you through this. Altuve used to be my sons favorite player. Living in SF I took him across the bay to see Hou every time they played in Oakland. He feels so let down. This became a life lesson for the kid. Is Altuve even a Christian? Or was that just another lie?

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    • chesteraarthur

      5 years ago

      MLB covers as much of it up as they can “because this isn’t a game – it’s a business and anyone who doesn’t believe that is just kidding themselves”

      This is what a lot of the people screeching in these comment sections need to realize.

      Reply
      • Halo11Fan

        5 years ago

        Of course they cover it up, this stuff tarnishes the sport. But there isn’t much they can do to punish the perpetrators.

        Do you want them to scream their that fair play is an illusion? As long as the Union wont allow the cleaning of the sport, we’ll have owners protecting their product.

        Reply
        • chesteraarthur

          5 years ago

          What?

          Reply
    • Mollysdad

      5 years ago

      You are the only Astros fan I’ve actually seen that doesn’t defend what they did, You get my respect for that. But you lose me when you mention it’s the same all over. The Cardinal’s incident was one person stealing information, he was banned for life and did jail time, The Brave’s GM got banned for life……do you really want to compare? People see the Astros situation as a team wide thing that wasn’t taken to the highest possible level, everybody cheats? probably, but not to the extent of what the Astros did

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    • 2001morecowbell2001

      5 years ago

      Oh give me a break with this “everyone does it” BS. Your teams a bunch of cheaters and you’re an enabler. No one cares about your “oh look at me I’m a lifer” drivel. Poop sandwich du jour.

      Reply
  88. CrookedAsstros

    5 years ago

    Complete scumbag organization through and through.

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  89. Bartman

    5 years ago

    Truth is every player knew about the cheating scam. I believe Crane is a liar and knew about it also. Beltran set it up with his buddy Cora and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. They cheated in 2017 and 2018 banging garbage cans. And in 2019 they used buzzers. Those are the facts and the reason I thought the entire team should be suspended without pay for 1 year and Crane forced to sell the team.

    Remember, MLB is a group of owners earning incredible amounts of money off each other. Far be it for them to throw one of their own out of the group.

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  90. DarkSide830

    5 years ago

    i can look past what the players said for the reason of liability and whatnot related to how they are still with the team and under contract with them, but Crane needs to own up. im not going to say he approved of it or even knew, but it’s at best gross incompetence if he didnt. he should pay more attention.

    Reply
  91. chound

    5 years ago

    That was way to smug of a press confress. Punish wasn’t enough in retrospect.

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  92. JaysForDays

    5 years ago

    Jesus. Enough already. Im so tired of hearing about this. They cheated, got caught, were punished. Let’s move on and drop it. Mlb isn’t going to strip titles or levy more punishment. Spring training is here. Stop beating a dead horse.

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  93. alanofla

    5 years ago

    It’s incredible that we are all expected to understand that the players, all of whom are adult men, merely lacked “proper guidance from team leaders.” If they are truly this immature, how are they ever going to handle the constant booing from road fans, the likely big increase in brushback and hit-by-pitches they’ll endure in 2020, or the fact that everyone who is not an Astros fan wants the 2017 WS title vacated?

    The worst thing I saw this morning was when a few of the players already seemed tired of having to apologize. 2017 Astros, you ain’t seen nothing yet!

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  94. julyn82001

    5 years ago

    Crane sounds like Ken L Lay, late ex Enron’s main Chief, who constantly denied he knew nothing about what was going on inside the energy company. Dare to believe, Mr. Crane. He might as well be good selling the Astros and move on…

    1
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    • sambino

      5 years ago

      Who in their right mind would want to buy them now?

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      • JaysForDays

        5 years ago

        Someone that wants to make 100s of millions of dollars… this isn’t going to cost them anything substantial

        Reply
  95. One Bite Hotdog

    5 years ago

    “The organization’s “leaders enabled, condoned, and did not stop” the sign-stealing effort”

    Clearly a line has been drawn as to what defines a leader. We often hear the term “leader” associated with certain players in teams clubhouse. Certainly one would find it difficult to argue/dismiss the role said ‘clubhouse leaders’ played in the sign-stealing effort. They too “did not stop” matters.

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  96. dimelotitony

    5 years ago

    Wow great way to kick a man when down in A.J. Hinch of course Crane knew he wanted that elusive championship and glory that comes with winning the CHIP and the millions upon millions of money he made in regards to merchandise, appearances, commercials and more. What a load of crap of an owner shoot he just made George Steinbrenner look like a Saint.

    To say the guys are remorseful is the same sorry state of I’m sorry that all ballplayers when they get caught whether its steriods, cheating or what not and then to state they are a great group of guys that leadership did not guide them or led them ummm you are the top of that leadership you knew exactly what was happening.

    Altuve such a feel good story back then and this is where he is going to have to prove his mettle that he is really good and not aided by buzzers no matter what he says that he is shy his work is cut out for him.

    Look cheating will happen the problem is that numerous teams have complained to Manfred about the Astros going above and beyond trying to gain an edge and the fact that Manfred just brushed it off is why it is rubbing off on the media, players, fans and others because they were out of control and Manfred did not take action until Mike Fiers came out publicly otherwise would have been swept under the rug.

    Houston Astros affected a lot of ballplayers and cities with their actions think about had they not cheated Dodgers could have been the one’s to reap the rewards of that World Series Shares for their ball players, they would have financially made more money selling their merchandise, the players themselves would have gained commercial endorsements and employees like ushers and vendors would probably have gotten a little bonus plus L.A. as a whole would have prosper same if it was for the Yankees and list goes on that is why Manfred failed as a commissioner he stated in order to get deeper he had to grant immunity to the players ummm he could have instead just stated whomever talks to me first i will grant you immunity all those others involved suspensions are at hand and this would have forced these players to try and get that deal.

    Reply
  97. bigjonliljon

    5 years ago

    What bull crap. I’m watching the the coverage on MLB network now. They are not taking any responsibility for there actions. Fake apologies, not answering any real questions- Canned responses of its in the past and we just want to move forward crap. Ridiculous

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    • Varmit

      5 years ago

      Nicely done Sir Jon!

      Reply
  98. astrosbangbang

    5 years ago

    sounds legit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Reply
  99. fisk72

    5 years ago

    Excellent summary Jeff, clear and concise.

    Reply
  100. BlueBleeder

    5 years ago

    Perhaps the reason they are not fully admitting guilt and details is the fact that there are several lawsuits that have been filed, or will soon be filed, against the Astros organization. Mike Bolsinger is suing for them ruining his career. The legacies and future contract $ of other players were impacted. Even gamblers who were wronged are lawyering up. DraftKings is being sued since it is partly owned by MLB who knew this was going on. It is only the beginning and the more they admit to, the more can be used against them in court.

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  101. Mollysdad

    5 years ago

    When this all first came out I felt bad for Crane, now I’m realizing he may be the problem. It’s everybody’s fault except the players, they didn’t get proper guidance……they are paid millions of dollars and they need somebody to hold their hand saying “don’t do that?”He’s an enabler trying to protect his investment, he is blinded at the damage this has caused this sport.
    Until this organization spills it on everything and lays it all out on the table this will only get worse, if thats possible

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  102. jb19

    5 years ago

    I’m an Astros fan and at this point I don’t care what other team’s fan bases think. Many other teams weren’t punished nearly as severe as the Astros were. The mlb won’t investigate any other teams. You’re naive to think it was only the Astros. You are naive to think Beltran “only cheated” in 2017 w the Astros and not with the Yankees from 2014 to 2016 and again in 2018 and 2019. The buzzer nonsense is just that. I’m ready for baseball and the Astros will, once again, knock the Yankees out of the postseason. If anyone throws at the Astros batter I hope the Astros pitchers throws right back at the opposing team. No apology or other action will ever be enough for these beta male East and west coast teams. So hopefully the Astros stop trying to appease them. Let’s play ball.

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    • Frisco500

      5 years ago

      Fanboy.

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    • alanofla

      5 years ago

      You never heard the old saying that “two wrongs don’t make a right?” The Astros cheated and got caught. Whatever you might think has happened elsewhere has not been reported, let alone proven.

      You want to know what will be enough? Admit all of the wrongdoing, completely answer the buzzer rumors, and vacate the 2017 WS title. The Yankees and Dodgers should have been in the 2017 World Series. If the Dodgers win Game 5 against your cheating team, which they likely would have without the banging trash cans, they would have won the World Series. The Dodgers don’t want and should not be awarded the 2017 WS title, but the Astros don’t deserve it. If nothing else, there should be a big orange asterisk next to it in the record books.

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    • Col. Taylor

      5 years ago

      *

      Reply
    • coachbrad

      5 years ago

      NOBODY won the 2017 World Series.

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  103. Vin Scully

    5 years ago

    To the fanboys who say “There is no way to tell if it helped them win or not” I say this simple fact. If it didn’t help them then why did they spend countless hours and money to do it for years? The answer.. Because it worked.

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  104. Scrap1ron

    5 years ago

    The devil made me do it. If they believe that the s***storm is behind them now, then they are deluding themselves. It didn’t have to be this way. They are a talented group of athletes that didn’t have to resort to what they knew was wrong to win. Now their reputations are ruined. They may not be banned, but they will not go unpunished. They’ll be heckled everywhere by fans & peers, media will get their licks in to. Oh, and kiss those lucrative endorsements good bye as well.

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    • Rallyshirt

      5 years ago

      Let’s not forget all the living legends of baseball HOF and their statements against the ASTRO players.

      Reply
    • hyraxwithaflamethrower

      5 years ago

      Here’s the thing: people are livid now, and I totally get why. As a fan of the game, so am I. But when the news broke about Clemens and Bonds and others, people were livid then, too. Now the majority of HOF voters want to see some of the steroid-era poster boys enshrined. It was cheating on their part, every bit as much as the Astros cheated. My point is that people have a way of getting over anything given time. They’ll be hated and heckled this year and rightfully so, but I don’t think this keeps any of them from the Hall, for better or worse, especially since the degree of guilt for the individual players is difficult to determine.

      Reply
      • alanofla

        5 years ago

        If I was a Hall voter, the steroid boys would never get my vote. None of them should ever get in, and nethier should Pete Rose. From the first day of rookie ball, there is a sign in every clubhouse warning against betting. Rose knew it full well and did it anyway. Also, Rose also nearly destroyed Ray Fosse’s career in the 1970 All Star Game for no good reason.

        Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, etc. all knew they were cheating. It’s sad for Bonds and Clemens because they had the credentials for enshrinement before they started using, but once they did, it erased their pasts.

        Yes, every one is human and makes mistakes. However, before someone can be forgiven, he or she must truly be remorseful and actually show it. Not pretend to be sorry for the cameras, but actually mean it. Rose and the steroid boys are only sorry they were caught. This is how many of the Astros are currently acting as well. These guys need to look in the mirror, stop blaming others, stop accusing others, admit what they did and really be sorry. If not, whatever they may do in the future wil be questioned, and one day, maybe their own HOF vote may be hard to obtain.

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        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          Agree. Playing devil’s advocate for a minute, perhaps the Astros apologies are weaker now because there’s more to be sorry for later, but they can’t apologize for that other stuff now, so it seems weak?

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        • BlueSkies_LA

          5 years ago

          Maybe but the real issue here is the person at the top of the organization is still pleading ignorance (as if ignorance is a defense when you’re supposed to be in charge). More will no doubt come out but I’d be shocked if MLB’s approach changes short the other owners demanding that Crane takes responsibility for what happened either right under his nose or with his approval.

          Reply
        • MLBTRS

          5 years ago

          The scandal has now officially been transferred to the MLB hierarchy, which is obviously the plan. The obscure execs will gladly take whatever heat they get, so long as the focus is no longer on the players.

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          Yes from what I’ve heard, GM Luhnow receives a message warning teams to not participate in electronic schemes, Hinch doesn’t get the memo from Luhnow and Crane knows nothing about it until after the investigation files its first report.

          Anyone in their right mind knows this is a total cover up. And why stop there? In April 2018 Danny Farquhar has a brain aneuyrism and nearly dies and who happens to be in town? The Houston Astros. Look at the bang chart from the ASTRO fan in 2017 and you’ll see the banging stopped right after the game with Farquhar. Next time they see him (2018) he’s rushed to the hospital mid game.

          Reply
        • BlueSkies_LA

          5 years ago

          I am not getting the Danny Farquhar angle. Can you explain the connection?

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          @Blueskies Let’s say you have two choices of what to believe.

          1. Danny Farquhar has some completely random, never medically assessed by his previous organizations as a potential severe or life threatening injury case. It came “out of nowhere” nobody knew anything and everyone was shocked. It’s a miracle he’s still alive, tried coming back to pitch and retires, hired by White Sox as a minor league coach.

          2. Fiers story could be buried and discredited with ease, but not Farquhar because he caught it. Astros stop their banging after Farquhar catches the Astros cheating strategy (no one else did). The next time they see him is before Fiers, they drug him somehow and nearly kill Farquhar.

          Now assuming anyone reading this has a capacity for sinister plots and the necessity to amplify such plots if ever exposed. The Astros have a lot to gain if Farquhar is incapacitated. And not being an expert on hiring an assassin, I would think the price for such a service would be considerably less than $5MM.

          Reply
        • ThePeople'sElbow

          5 years ago

          are you suggesting a hit be placed on someone’s head?

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          Logic suggests it may have happened already in spring of 2018.

          Reply
        • neurogame

          5 years ago

          This is why the Mike Bolsinger case is so important. Some may glance at it, then look at his stats and say, “but he wasn’t good anyways!” but the importance of his case moving to the discovery level can’t be over-stated. Manfred’s initial investigations , though half a**, couldn’t uncover any sordid plans by the Astros but let’s see what happens when outside attorneys are employed for the task.

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          Neurogame, 100% agree

          Reply
        • BlueSkies_LA

          5 years ago

          I have a lot more choices in what to believe than your two version of the same conspiracy theory. What happened here was bad enough without introducing the “you can’t prove it didn’t happen so it must have happened” thinking. But I know it’s virtually impossible to argue against conspiracy theories. They are always their own reward.

          Reply
        • Rallyshirt

          5 years ago

          @Blueskies, You’re right, I presented the point poorly. But the point has some weight. I’ll try to present better.

          I can’t prove anything. It just sounds fishy, to me. If Farquhar had this unfortunate experience while playing against a different team, then yeah it’s more far-fetched. But it was while he played against the Astros (at the soonest opportunity), before any official investigation was set.

          The person who tipped the Athletic sent information to the authors keying on data built from the 2017 Farquhar statement as a starting point. From what I understand, the later Mike Fiers statement gave the Athletic the final push to run with their report publicly.

          If someone knew about the Athletic report in its pre-Fiers statement phase, and that was brought to someone in the Astros camp, it’s entirely logical Farquhar could be targeted as a threat.

          Now, let’s just say (purely for the sake of a discussion) if Farquhar died, then the Fiers statement could be buried with what Astros could reveal or even manufacture to dismiss Fiers credibility. The entire narrative could be different then what we have today.

          But Farquhar lived. Astros have nothing they can do to discredit his part, and there is no way to avoid the issue even if they tried to spin Fiers around to look like a bad guy, which they might have done anyway. And they can’t try to go after Farquhar again because that would be even more incriminating.

          All I’m saying is it’s fishy. I’ve held back from sharing this because the whole idea is so much bigger than what’s already a HUGE deal for baseball. But, what the heck, I like mysteries. If Farquhar’s medicals from the time he was rushed to the hospital during the game show anything like a foreign agent which could’ve caused it, that would be the nuclear bomb. And I find it highly unusual a team wouldn’t know that about his health issues prior, which could suggest an agent was used.

          Reply
        • neurogame

          5 years ago

          @Rallyshirt – now you’re talking about hypotheticals in the extreme of people dying? This is even worse.

          Reply
    • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

      5 years ago

      sorry I have a drinking problem..Blame it on the alcohol!

      1
      Reply
    • ThePeople'sElbow

      5 years ago

      no it was Frank the bunny who told them to do it.

      Reply
  105. jwr0223

    5 years ago

    Absolutely the title should be stripped away. They cheated and that’s the bottom line.
    Now if Crane is saying that knowing what pitch is coming didn’t change the results then why not have his pitchers let every batter they face this year know what pitch is about to be thrown. Then let’s see how that works out.

    5
    Reply
  106. neals

    5 years ago

    I can’t believe Crane had no idea about the cheating.

    1
    Reply
    • hyraxwithaflamethrower

      5 years ago

      Even if he somehow didn’t, it’s still negligence on his part that it could go on that long without him knowing. It’s not like some guy in the minors got busted for PED use. This was something the whole team knew about and he claims he didn’t. Was he ever around the team?

      Reply
  107. AtlSoxFan

    5 years ago

    This whole thing is another failed stunt. Maybe there’s sponsor issues. You know it comes down to money somehow.

    If anything at all I believe the players are sorry they got caught, and thats about it. Maybe they’re sorry they have to experience the backlash.

    True remorse doesn’t happen only in private late night closed door meetings. You also don’t go from no contrition or apology the entire time this has been brewing, including previous conferences and interviews, and all of a sudden experience a come to jesus type moment and instantly have gut wrenching remorse.

    A player that sits down, opens the book on what he did and when, maybe says he got caught up in the moment and doesn’t know where it went wrong, how once things got rolling it was too easy not to stop… thats a good start.

    Give me a guy taking accountability and being open about what he did, how, and when? Thats a start at redemption. Have him tell me he was caught in the moment and the consequences to others just weren’t registering at the time? That now that he looks back and thinks about it, he sees how much bigger the negative impacts were that someone just not getting the WS trophy or the pennant?

    A guy does that and ends by saying he’s truly sorry, knows that doesn’t fix things, but he can just try to be a better player and teammate going forward, looks for a chance to hopefully redeem and prove himself over time?

    Then I believe him. All this was a poorly orchestrated dog and pony show that wasn’t even entertaining

    4
    Reply
    • Daver520

      5 years ago

      No way anybody is reading all of your winded post especially since your first sentence makes no sense …

      Reply
      • ThePeople'sElbow

        5 years ago

        so you’re just dumb then?

        1
        Reply
    • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

      5 years ago

      pffft! dumb….

      Reply
    • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

      5 years ago

      so gotta have 2 baseball teams in the username! box checked!

      Reply
  108. sergefunction

    5 years ago

    WHERE IS VERLANDER AND HIS ALWAYS-ENTITLED BIG MOUTH?

    And, yes, I’m yelling about at. If you can’t vote for Clemens and Bonds, and you believe Verlander needed a postseason resurgence to get in (ask Tiger fans about his October work), then you can’t vote for him either.

    He routinely railed against his perceived injustices, now it’s crickets with him. Despicable.

    4
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  109. TomL

    5 years ago

    Getting so tired of Altuve and others comments on the buzzers being false (even if they weren’t using them). These guys are liars and cheaters! Why do they expect to have any credibility and trust on this? Even if it’s fALSE be CONTRITE and admit you guys have no credibility and no trust when you say claim the buzzer story is not true. Even Crane defending this is wrong.

    That alone makes me question their “remorse” on the sign stealing. I just hope Dusty really laid into them in his private speech yesterday.

    4
    Reply
    • a911resqr2

      5 years ago

      Remorse that they got caught, not that they were cheating.

      2
      Reply
      • TomL

        5 years ago

        Agreed, that’s the perception it gives. I’m just presuming there has to be somebody in there that’s genuine.

        2
        Reply
  110. tommyl

    5 years ago

    MLB should take away the Astros’ world championship and have remorse and feel really sorry and bad about it. MLB should state that it believes having no champion in 2017 would have no “impact” on baseball

    1
    Reply
  111. 3Men&ABibee

    5 years ago

    It’s funny how when you are POS –Red Sox And Astros- you want to move on and just forget about. Good try. It’s not that easy. It will NEVER be the same for the team or the players, so move on from that you chumps.

    3
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    • hyraxwithaflamethrower

      5 years ago

      TBH, I think that depends in part on how many other teams are found guilty in further investigations. If it stops here or includes just one other team, yeah, it will be a while before they live it down (though I think they eventually will, just like Bonds and Clemens may get to the HOF). If it’s six or seven more teams, then it’s an epidemic and fans will have a choice of no longer being fans or forgive everyone if their team is one of the ones that cheated.

      Reply
  112. a911resqr2

    5 years ago

    The owners comments about the players make them sound like a bunch of kindergartens. They didn’t know better because they lacked leadership? My son’s 12U team would no that cheating is wrong.

    3
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  113. Zkirton

    5 years ago

    After how Atlanta was crucified for signing young players (something everyone does) I really hope an example is made of Houston. The bs punishment they received wasnt near enough.

    1
    Reply
  114. HubcapDiamondStarHalo

    5 years ago

    My gut reaction is this sounds like a very standard 21st Century non-apology, ala “the ends justify the means.” Can’t really see where the Astros did themselves much of a favor with this presser.

    1
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  115. Chasingamymatt123

    5 years ago

    I’m honestly struggling to see how MLB can sort out this sorry mess. Let’s take a huge leap and say Astros only cheated in their world series winning season. Do gamblers sue them as they didn’t “really win” Do players get penalised for any arbitration awards on the back of that season, individual awards that were won…what happens? Draft pick order? World series shares across organisations? Not just players but usually these go right down to scouts. Free agent contacts signed off back of that season? It’s the worst mess ever in baseball. I don’t need to hear about all teams do it. Quite possibly but this team won. Imagine the carnage if they had beat nationals this year. I feel sorry for Astros fans as they were such a good team and as a yankee fan they kicked us and looked legit doing it but we will never know what was talent or what had help.. such a mess. And the commissioner hasn’t helped

    1
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  116. bigdonkey44adam_dunn

    5 years ago

    So can TR do a poll on Manfred being fired or stepping down? Then the Owners will see how we feel!

    4
    Reply
  117. depressedtribefan

    5 years ago

    astros will lead the league in hbp this year

    3
    Reply
    • bigdonkey44adam_dunn

      5 years ago

      hopefully the lose 100 and worst record in baseball!

      1
      Reply
      • depressedtribefan

        5 years ago

        I doubt that’ll happen. but we can hope lol

        Reply
  118. jcraft21

    5 years ago

    Not sorry that it happened

    Sorry they were caught!

    2
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  119. Rallyshirt

    5 years ago

    Houston fans and their sponsors, please accept this bullsh*t.

    Reply
  120. tiredolddude

    5 years ago

    I didn’t think it was possible for anything to get me rooting for the Yankees in the AL, but the smug, “They forced me to be here” appearances of Bergman and Altuve today locked it all down. The only thing these clowns were sorry for was being caught
    And they can say what they like but in watching their playoff game against the Rays and Glasnow last year, something is amiss, and it’s not the lame story of a pitcher “tipping” his pitches

    1
    Reply
  121. K R Stemen

    5 years ago

    The internal finger pointing will never stop. The fact is that “If there is a skunk in the house, the whole family knows it’s there”

    Reply
  122. Dodgerfan34

    5 years ago

    Sorry they got caught! Apology is hallow but the Astros fans will be happy. Now they can pretend that their championship means something.

    3
    Reply
  123. empirejim

    5 years ago

    It’s hard to imagine a more pathetic “apology” press conference. Crane thinks he’s clean and that his players were poor dupes, really just innocent boys that deserve our forgiveness and acceptance. It’s easy to see that integrity is not something that is valued in the Astros organization from the top down. If MLB had a commissioner worth his salt the Astros would have been stripped of their title and the rest of the league would know the high price of crossing the line. The way the commish handled it, there was no punishment for the players and so no reason not to do it again. Plain and simple, it’s gotta hurt or it will continue.

    3
    Reply
  124. vtadave

    5 years ago

    Just realize this: if you are really, really bad at your job, just know that you’re still doing a better job than the Astros’ PR department.

    5
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  125. StPeteStingRays

    5 years ago

    So what happens when we find out about cheating in 2018 & 2019??
    This is going to blow up in their faces.

    1
    Reply
  126. BobbyDynamite

    5 years ago

    I’d like to see the Bolsinger lawuit move forward and cause more of Manfred’s investigation to be entered into the court record. Having more of the information that Manfred conveniently omitted from his report would probably put to rest many of the disagreements in this comment section.

    The 2017 Astros won’t look like angels as more information on other teams comes out, but their actions will be seen in a more accurate context and baseballs fans will not likely view the team as negatively as they do now.

    1
    Reply
  127. hogansgoat

    5 years ago

    You can punish the team, the players, and the owner by simply limiting the team to a $100 million dollar payroll for the next 5 years. Let them all wallow at the bottom.

    1
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  128. A'sFan4ver

    5 years ago

    I’m Houston fan from Cali. Admired Biggio, Ryan, and the TM growing up but now I feel embarrassed and disappointed. I’m shocked players didnt get suspended. When you Cheat/Steal in life even if its petty you get penalized. In this case like your parents take the fall for you stealing from your friends. They pay back and as a parent you say I’ll punish them..well guess that didnt happen either. Just a meeting and a remorse. Ya I’m sorry too as a Astro’s fan. It’s easier to say sorry when no penalties, like a toddler learning to say I’m sorry dont do it again. Cheating/stealing is cheating and they should have got penalized. Blaming other teams doing same thing is like telling the cop why you pull me over, the 2 cars in front of me were was speeding faster..I caught you first.

    2
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  129. 55bums

    5 years ago

    Well that resolved everything
    But in our new America we can just say we are sorry and get away with anything
    We don’t have to mean it

    Reply
    • andymeyer

      5 years ago

      That’s always been America

      1
      Reply
  130. infractor

    5 years ago

    A fish rots from the head down.

    1
    Reply
    • cnseekatz

      5 years ago

      False…

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_rot

      1
      Reply
  131. extreme113

    5 years ago

    Manfred works for the owners and the only one he exonerated was Crane – hmmmmm.

    1
    Reply
  132. cleve1969

    5 years ago

    What a bunch of spoiled crybabies … the incident was completely investigated, persons were suspended (and fired), the team was fined the maximum allowed by MLB and the team lost multiple draft choices. The Commissioner did his job … dry your tears and get ready for the new season that is only a few weeks away.

    Reply
  133. rognog

    5 years ago

    Let’s not forget the racist crap against Darvish (mocking a guy because they knew what he was going to throw), running up to female reporters to taunt them about Osuna and stonewalling that one too.

    This is systemic, rewarded and expected behavior. House should have been cleared, the title revoked.

    2
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    • bradthebluefish

      5 years ago

      Right!? Great points.

      2
      Reply
  134. em650r

    5 years ago

    I suggest the players involved should be suspended or fined for the wrong doing.
    Fined even if they had already Retired

    2
    Reply
  135. bradthebluefish

    5 years ago

    Dumb. Just give a one-time scripted, public apology and tell everyone to shut the heck up about it all. Constantly talking about it and not getting punished more harshly for it is a bad images

    Reply
  136. Yankeelove

    5 years ago

    What Astros should being is ‘we want win a untainted world series championship ’cause this team is delusional IF they think 2017 was won legit and the owner is A clown players were given immunity so they could go unpunished and snitch on each other there shouldn’t be no champion for 2017 not the Dodgers or Yankees

    2
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  137. ThePeople'sElbow

    5 years ago

    no contrition whatsoever from the guilty parties and we’re all supposed to believe they’re sorry. They’re sorry they got caught. They’re sorry they’re the only ones being punished. They’re sorry they have to deal with all the public backlash. They’re sorry they’re going to lose out on endorsements and such. But these millionaires DGAF about us the regular folks or their credibility or integrity. Crane is a joke throwing Hinch and Lunhow under the bus. This guy is a billionaire and he’s going to feign ignorance – hahaha ok sure.

    What a joke! But then again this whole scandal perfectly encapsulates what America is all about. Lie. Cheat. Steal. Until you’re sitting alone on the top of the hill.

    Home of the hypocrite, land of the slave.

    1
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  138. samlumalo

    5 years ago

    Asstro fans saying ” other teams do it why are we getting punished” is the most idiotic thing I have read. So it’s ok to cheat right? Cause you cheated your way through your life so that’s why it’s ok to protect cheaters? Give me a break. When you found out someone else was cheating, you get red hot and angry at that team or person. Nice to be contradicting right? Being double standard and all that. Admit it, you hate cheaters and you don’t want to be part of it, but once your team is found to be in it you have nothing else but to blame others and accuse others of doing same act. You are being pathetic to yourself. That’s what you teach your kids? If your kid cheated on whatever; do you tell them, “It’s ok you got caught, you’re not the only one who cheated. Heck your punishment is too harsh. Other kids are doing it so why not investigate them?”

    What a great parenting right? I thought it’s basic, you cheat on anything you get punished. I thought that’s life lesson 101.
    Maybe you should stop watching baseball and retake ethic class from mommy and daddy.

    1
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  139. Gmaddox3/4

    5 years ago

    They are only sorry because they got caught. There was no contrion at all.

    Reply
  140. cooperx

    5 years ago

    The only thing the Astros feel bad about is getting caught. Not convincing whatsoever.

    Reply
  141. CKinSTL

    5 years ago

    Current AL record for Hit By Pitch is 103, held by the 2008 Cleveland Indians.. The 2020 Astros should have no problem clearing that.

    While the commish did not issue any penalties to the players involved.. the opposing teams and the umpires certainly can.

    1
    Reply
    • BobbyDynamite

      5 years ago

      Other than Clevinger and one or two others, I really don’t see AL pitchers chomping at the bit to bean the Astros. It’s not like they would do that just because a twitter mob wants them to.

      A few pitchers might try it, but… how many times till they feel they’ve made their point? How many of their teammates are they willing to see beaned in retaliation? How many suspensions are they willing to serve, how much are they willing to pay in fines? How much do they care about run prevention?

      Those are the questions potential vigilantes will have to answer.

      Reply
  142. Gwynning's Anal Lover

    5 years ago

    It’s only going to get uglier. I’m talking about my manager, not anything about baseball.

    Reply
  143. 2012orioles

    5 years ago

    What a disaster

    Reply
  144. driftcat28 2

    5 years ago

    This is all such BS. The players aren’t remorseful. They don’t care one bit about what they did. They’re sorry they got caught, if anything

    1
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  145. mjones650

    5 years ago

    This makes me even more impressed with Trout’s performances the last few years, competing with Altuve and Bregman who now clearly have tainted numbers. If they were really sorry, they would give up their accolades.
    As a Giants fan, I recall when Melky cheated in 2012, he relinquished his batting title to Posey which was the right move.

    2
    Reply
  146. andymeyer

    5 years ago

    Who cares. It’s just baseball. Entertainment.
    People get cheated out of their livelihoods everyday. Some more serious than others.
    People cheat their way into jobs, schools, etc.
    You probably scammed a grocery store in the self check out line because you didn’t want to pay for the organic produce so you rang in the conventional code

    It’s a new season so let’s play some ball

    1
    Reply
    • Clayton Russell

      5 years ago

      No, WWE is just entertainment. I like to think MLB is different than WWE. Astros should forfeit the title and be made ineligible for the playoffs for some reasonable number of years (maybe 2 or 3). Ideally, they would be suspended as a team, but that would be basically impossible with scheduling.

      Reply
      • MLBTRS

        5 years ago

        Good point. Pro Wrestling used to be a sport and no sport is exempt from regressing to the level of “just entertainment”. If the “entertainment” aspect is the total focus and the usual suspects who care for nothing but that, it’s a slippery slope to a decadent society of Bread and Circus.

        Reply
        • JaysForDays

          5 years ago

          Pro wrestling was a sport? Lol ok…..

          Reply
    • MoRivera 1999

      5 years ago

      Actually, many of us don’t cheat. You just assume we do because you do. AndyMeyer reading your comment, you’re not a person I would want to know. You say “people get cheated out of their livelihood every day” like it’s an ok thing we should just accept and “get over.” No. Just no.

      2
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      • JaysForDays

        5 years ago

        You accept it every day of your life… school, work, govt, sport, entertainment…. don’t be so naive…

        Reply
      • andymeyer

        5 years ago

        Mo4ever
        You want to call me a cheater, that’s fine. I don’t know you and could care less. It’s pretty naive that you think that I think it’s an “ok thing”. It’s not. Next time read context and not just words
        It’s just interesting to me how everyone is freaking out. They made their bed, let them sleep in it and move on with your life

        Reply
  147. empirejim

    5 years ago

    Not sorry they did it, Not even sorry they got caught. Only sorry that they have to show up for pressers where everyone isn’t fawning over them…………

    Pathetic organization from the top down.

    Disgrace to baseball.

    Reply
  148. AllinTX

    5 years ago

    Then IMMUNITY to Bonds, Clemmens, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire, Rose, Jackson, Ramirez, Rodriguez. EVERY-SINGLE-ONE!

    1
    Reply
  149. AllinTX

    5 years ago

    Imagine the feeling of some of the Dodgers. Losing back to back years to cheaters? Unreal.

    1
    Reply
  150. Juice19

    5 years ago

    I hope the Astros are booed relentlessly and shamed every single game this year. I really do. I feel like this was the biggest cheating scam in baseball history. It was an organizational effort to cheat the game and they got a WS out of it.

    3
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  151. Luke Strong

    5 years ago

    Manfred screwed up big on this. The investigation was not transparent, and appropriate punishments were not levied. Crane made dirty money from all of this. He should have been forced to sell the team, and in the meanwhile, not permitted to be involved with the club. Hinch and Luhnow should have been banned from MLB, along with Beltran and Cora. And if it’s ever proven Altuve, Bregman or any other player wore an electronic device, they should be given a lifetime ban as well. There was an opportunity here to convey a very significant message, that the use of technology to cheat will be punished by a lifetime ban, but that is not the message which was sent.

    1
    Reply
  152. heater

    5 years ago

    Opposing players should police this matter themselves.

    1
    Reply
  153. Col. Taylor

    5 years ago

    Might have to renew my MLBtv just to watch Asterisks road games.

    Reply
  154. Slam Diego

    5 years ago

    Baker said the players “showed tremendous remorse, sorrow, and embarrassment” – but will they give back their World Series rings? I doubt it.

    1
    Reply
  155. radar

    5 years ago

    Astros at Angels are selling like hotcakes…….. many Dodger Fans planning to go in their Dodger Blue and are going to mercilessly BOO them for 9 innings!

    1
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    • Dodger Dogg

      5 years ago

      I heard Yankees fans are buying tix as well. Going to be must-see TV. With the disconnect Crane and the players showed this morning, my guess is that the Astros players don’t know what they’re in for.

      Reply
  156. robb5215

    5 years ago

    TO ALL MLB PLAYERS: Commissioner is ok with players cheating. No need to worry about getting caught. He does not believe in punishing the player. Now that he has set the standard law suits galore when he or another Commish tries to reign it in. Poor choice for a leader. Owners want it that way.

    Reply
  157. Slam Diego

    5 years ago

    Proper punishment would be to make Astros pitchers announce what they are throwing before each pitch every game for the next 5 years.

    2
    Reply
    • MoRivera 1999

      5 years ago

      Since “it doesn’t affect the results,” it shouldn’t matter to Astros fans, players or ownership.

      1
      Reply
  158. JustCheckingIn

    5 years ago

    These idiots are worse than the Senate GOP at lying

    We feel really bad we got millions in bonuses. Excuse us for getting caught

    2
    Reply
  159. raginbull17

    5 years ago

    If I was the opposing pitcher on opening day I would beam every Astro until I got kicked out of the game. Best two pitches I would throw of my life.

    Reply
  160. case

    5 years ago

    The Astros’ punishment may be severe by American professional sports standards… but at the corporate level it’s still going to be considered negligible when compared with the millions of dollars upper management made from all of these playoff runs.

    Reply
  161. case

    5 years ago

    The Astros’ punishment may be severe by American professional sports standards… but at the management level it’s still going to be considered negligible when compared with the millions of dollars upper management made from all of these playoff runs.

    Reply
  162. Dodger Dogg

    5 years ago

    I wonder if Houston’s PR people are fired yet? Crane’s words were chosen poorly and revealed a disconnect from the situation. A decent leader would take some responsibility instead of throwing his ex-managers under the bus. Crane should have asked for forgiveness, not Dusty. From top to bottom, we now know why there’s a lack of moral fiber in this organization.

    1
    Reply
    • MWeller77

      5 years ago

      Totally agree. Crane sounded totally insincere. Bregman didn’t sound terribly earnest, either.

      1
      Reply
  163. kelticknotz

    5 years ago

    Crane apologizes some players apologize because the owner (who signs their cheques) said they would. Once the investigations are complete it will be interesting to see if Hinch, Cora and Luhnow apologize, Beltan sort of apologized. But none of the managers.
    Onto MLB you created this mess you started allowing electronics and camera to be used. Maybe not for what was done, but given a chance anyone will try to gain an edge.
    MLB investigations take way to long. As a former police officer , no investigation takes time time MLB Their DV investigation take forever. If you don’t have it already hire a half dozen good retired police investigators and get it done.

    Reply
  164. discoguy

    5 years ago

    Buck Weaver was suspended from baseball for knowing teammates were cheating in the World Series. He faced a lifetime ban he fought until the day he died because Buck Weaver did not cheat in the 1919 World Series, Buck Weaver was suspended for simply knowing cheating was happening, a crime numerous Astros players were also guilty of, yet while MLB continues to uphold the suspension of Buck Weaver, numerous MLB players guilty of the exact same crime are getting away with their cheating while Buck Weaver is being held to a different standard. This brings up Joe Jackson as well who was implicated as a cheater yet his stats showed otherwise. MLB cannot uphold different standards for the same crime. You either have to stop the absurd suspension of Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson and see them as you see the Astros or enforce lifetime bans on all Astros players involved in the cheating as the eight 1919 Chicago White Sox players suffered. You can’t have it both ways.

    Reply
  165. Sid Bream

    5 years ago

    Altuve knew what was coming down the can from Chapman, a curve ball that he hit out of the park.

    I don’t see how anyone can absolve the players involved in this, they’re as much guilty & responsible for this cheating as Hinch.

    Reply
  166. jonesadoug

    5 years ago

    suspend all players involved for a year. strip the WS title. ANYTHING less is a slap in the face to all other MLB teams players and fans!!!!!!

    Reply
  167. shanefalco50

    5 years ago

    This is a very simple situation to handle. And it would and should devastate the Astros. All players who participated in the sign stealing, all players and coaches who knew of the sign stealing and did not stop it or come forward and tell MLB what was going on, should be thrown out of baseball. This is not hard. THEY WILLINGLY CHEATED, KNEW THEY WERE CHEATING, AND KEPT DOING IT FOR 3 YEARS. Get rid of them all. If the Astros have to pull up their AAA team to take the field, then so be it. If MLB does not ban these guys, then there will be more cheating by others in the future. All OF THEM MUST BE PUNISHED AND THROWN OUT OF BASEBALL to save the integrity of the game. BS apologies and sorrys won’t cut it for these offenses. They have forfeited their chance to play MLB…..let them get a job in a semi-pro league somewhere.

    Reply
    • estesi

      5 years ago

      Not that simple owners hire staff to cheat players cheat to compete or they wont make it in baseball or any other sports in the planet. Thats how entertainment goes if not it would be boring and no fans to fill the ball parks or to watch tv ads. The only fools to believe this story from mlb is the loyal fan. The rest dont even care.

      Dont forget the yankees and re sox were caught cheating also the same year. I really believe every team cheats. They have ever since baseball was invented.

      Reply
  168. MannyPineappleExpress9

    5 years ago

    So the adult players aren’t responsible or accountable because their older adults coaches and manager didn’t stop them?
    At what age, or point in life are we ever going to hold an individual accountable for their own actions, and not pawn off blame onto literally ANYONE else just because they’re easier to punish, terminate, or buy off?

    1
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  169. HighHardOne

    5 years ago

    It is hard to believe that they could make this situation any worse than it was. But they did just that with perhaps the most inept performance imaginable.

    Reply
  170. Rsox

    5 years ago

    The apologies are hollow, they are being forced and unfortunately there is no real remorse other than being sorry they got caught.

    Before the 29 other teams start taking the sanctimonious high ground though they better make sure their houses are in order. MLB provided the technology used in this fiasco and unfortunately we have heard the rumblings of other teams stealing signs before.
    Any technology can and usually will be perverted to some end. After all, the internet was not originally created for online gambling and viewing copious amounts of porn. But gambling and porn are two of the most popular things on the internet.

    The Astros only proved that putting technology that is meant to help improve player performance into stadiums was a terrible idea in hindsight that will likely force MLB to place baby sitters in replay rooms because the teams cant neccesarily be trusted.

    Reply
  171. ryanw-2

    5 years ago

    If these people are arrogant (narcissistic) enough to keep doing what they were doing, after AJ Hinch smashed the monitors they were using, then I wouldn’t expect a genuine apology from them. There’s more to being a good organization than just winning on the field.

    Reply
  172. hbk1976

    5 years ago

    I can’t wait to see the Astros first game at the Bronx! The players should be all punished. Crane should get out of baseball, and the trophy should be taken away, disgrace to baseball!

    Reply
  173. Eatdust666

    5 years ago

    Altuve and Bregman are liars as well is the entire cheating team and no, they are NOT sorry!

    Reply
  174. Eatdust666

    5 years ago

    Vacate the title and Altuve’s MVP.

    Reply
  175. Amp

    5 years ago

    Too bad Vin Scully retired. I’d love to hear him call theAltuve AB when he catches one in the grill! “That’s gonna leave a mark”

    Reply
  176. chisoxjuan

    5 years ago

    The 1919 Black (White) Sox & Pete Rose are similar cases. Shoeless Joe Jackson
    was banned because he knew players on the team were playing to lose & said nothing to his coaches or the owner. He might have been the best player in the league at the time. The controversy lies with Buck Weaver. He claimed back then & his family claims today that he approached the front office with a list of names that were playing to lose. He claimed he represented a group of players that included SJJ that wanted the front office to know. If the family ever wins their battle we can assume SJJ would be exonerated as well.
    The problem they have faced all along is that the White Sox in every era refuse
    to make clear whether the front office guys Weaver named ever met with him.
    They won’t say they did or didn’t meet with him & that suggests some in the front office knew and may have been profiting from the scandal as well.

    Similarly the Reds won’t confirm or deny what Rose has said about their knowledge
    of his betting. Betting is all about odds & if Rose is betting on the Reds to win he’s
    going to pick the games where the odds are against them. To combat those odds
    he has to juggle his pitchers in a way that might compromise the ability to compete
    in other games. If he’s doing this often enough then a pattern develops that attracts
    criminally minded bettors. That’s what happened in 1919 when it became obvious
    by their play who was playing to lose for the White Sox. When the manager broke
    the pattern with a pitching change some of those bought players wanted to give the money back plus interest so they could go for the wins.

    The 1919 Black (White) Sox & Pete Rose are similar cases. Initially it’s unlikely even a Capo was involved in these scandals but once a pattern emerged it drew the big bosses in. In the case of Black Sox it was the obvious play of the bought players early. Soon there after the money went large against the Sox.
    The manager made a rotation change to break a string of losses & that convinced some bought players to go for wins. They were even willing to pay the money back plus interest. It was too late & the mafia threatened their very lives to insure the losses.

    Rose stating he only bet on the Reds to win doesn’t help his cause because the only way to win big is to bet on the games where the odds are against the Reds. As a player he might use amps or other drugs to increase his play short term. As a manager he can make a rotation change or stretch a great reliever.
    If he does it often it creates a pattern & that will draw the big mafia bosses in. Only Rose knows, but if that happened he may have been betting on games he didn’t want to &that also means making choices on games he knows the mafia is betting on.

    The other part that makes them similar is that Landis banned players & coaches that were aware of a potential scandal & didn’t notify their teams. Both Rose & Buck Weaver claim they notifed their team’s front offices.
    Rose claims the Reds gave “implicit” approval & Weaver claims the Sox said “don’t worry about it.”
    The main reason why the bans remain is that both the Sox & Reds refuse to address those claims. They will neither confirm or deny those meeting happened suggesting both teams knew & somehow profited on it. In Weaver’s case he claimed he represented a group of players including Shoeless Joe Jackson when he met with the Sox front office. If the Sox were to confirm that meeting then SJJ would be exonerated as well. SJJ may have been the best player in the league at the time. His impact on that team was greater than Mike Trout’s has been for the Angels.

    Personally, I think these bans should be lifted regardless of whether the teams ever acknowledge those meetings. Betting is so specialized now that bets are placed on how many hits Mike Trout might get in a given game. MLB seems to be encouraging those bets now so maintaining the life time bans seems like hypocrisy.
    It doesn’t help MLB either that both the Red Sox & Cubs may have laid down
    in two WS of that decade because players were unhappy with their pay.

    In the case of the Astros, a steroid analogy makes more sense. All of the evidence vs Sosa is circumstantial. He was never caught using or even possessing a steroid. The evidence is the money he paid for a brown paper bag of something at a hotel & his quick body mass build up. The dramatic change in his body in a short period
    of time resembles a roid user. It doesn’t help that he was caught using a corked bat in games to improve his bat speed as well. In both cases the actions help the team win by breaking rules of competition. It doesn’t warrant a lifetime ban but it does put a permanent stain on the player. I don’t think any roider will get into the HOF & I don’t think any member of the winning Astros will either.

    Bonds still holds the single season HR record but the roids taint that. Similarly 5-time of team 48 has more wins than any current driver in NASCAR but Knaus’ cheating ways taint his career. It doesn’t help that after the two separated 5-time’s talent has greatly diminished. Fans will never hold him in esteem the way they do other drivers that have a lot less wins.

    Lastly the big gain with sign stealing is laying off pitches you might otherwise swing at. Whether it helped the Astros or not can easily be measured by their OBP in the questionable games. It doesn’t help you in SLG because the vast majority of pitches thrown are fastballs. A hitter just assumes a fastball is coming until they see something that suggests otherwise. Knowing that a FB is coming doesn’t help you with it’s location but knowing a curve is coming helps because location is limited. Altuve might also know for instance that a certain pitcher only throws a curve for a strike 30% of the time. There is no way a hitter is going to ignore
    that kind of information once they detect it. Not only does it help to draw a walk
    but also to foul off pitches until you can put a ball in play.

    Reply
  177. chisoxjuan

    5 years ago

    JJ of NASCAR is a 7-time champ tying Petty & Earnhardt. They are treated like Gods by the fans whereas JJ is treated like a beneficiary of Knaus’ cheating ways.
    There is a large enough group of fans that believe his driving skill is just above average
    for NASCAR. He has won far more than Jeff Gordon has yet Gordon is considered the more skilled driver & his legacy has a much bigger fan base.
    NASCAR has never treated cheating like MLB has. It’s more a slap on the wrist & a go back 2 spaces kind of thing with them. So it’s not a surprise that they promote JJ wherever they can. They don’t remind fans of how often Knaus (the crew chief that engineered his 7 title rings) was caught cheating in JJ’s career.

    I think Brady’s carreer with the Pats is a similar situation. The Pats have had more scandals than any other team in that span & that does tarnish both the player’s & team’s legacy. Brady is probably the winnest QB in NFL history but he is not the
    the most beloved. He isn’t even top 5 on that list.

    Why are the Astros facing greater fallout over this than the Red Sox? Both are
    recent champs that cheated. What about the champions during the roid eras? How many roiders did they have? I don’t think any one is going to say sign stealing is a bigger advantage than roid/perf enhancers or amp users. How many WS champs
    in the 1970’s were doing amps? How many ampers did those teams have? The roiders impact started to be felt in the late 80’s.

    Maybe they weren’t illegal subtances at the time but MLB was well aware of their impact on the game & chose to hide their eyes from 1970 to nearly 2010. Dating back to 1908 they seem to ignore the transgressions of some teams & punish others.

    1
    Reply
  178. shoghi

    5 years ago

    The more we hear and read about the sign stealing scandal the more damning it gets. If MLB executives don’t severely punish the Astro players and management it will open the door for other teams to cheat. If I attend a game in which the Astros are playing I’ll be yelling cheaters until they escort me out. What they did is unforgivable. Pete Rose and Joe Jackson were suspended for life for crimes which pale in comparison to the Astros crime. Run them out of the league and send a strong message.

    Reply
  179. JackStrawb

    5 years ago

    Agree that Crane sounds “craven,” and it was interesting to see MLBTradeRumors go that far. Many outlets try to avoid that sort of thing even when it’s fully warranted, as here. Thanks for your solid coverage of this scandal.

    Reply
  180. Dodger Dogg

    5 years ago

    How can the Astros say, “We earned the championship” when they were found guilty of cheating?

    Reply
    • Slam Diego

      5 years ago

      Exactly – if they feel they are deserving of the championship, then why did they feel the need to cheat? The Astros “apology” is not accepted.

      Reply

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