The Cardinals’ hole in left field has many fans focused on top prospect Dylan Carlson, and Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch explores the 21-year-old’s potential timeline to the big leagues. The Cards, Goold notes, don’t have a history of service time manipulation — in part because they’re aggressive in trying to lock up key young players on long-term contracts that buy out the seventh year that would be gained by holding a prospect down in the minors. That said, Carlson has limited exposure in Triple-A and several competitors he’ll have to outplay in decisive fashion this spring in order to be considered for the Opening Day roster. Tyler O’Neill, Lane Thomas, Justin Williams and waiver claim Austin Dean are all in the mix for at-bats in the outfield. Goold spoke with president of baseball ops John Mozeliak, manager Mike Schildt, teammate Jack Flaherty and Carlson himself about what it’d take to complete the former No. 33 overall pick’s ascent to the Majors. Mozeliak wouldn’t expressly rule out an Opening Day nod for Carlson, indicating that the club would use Spring Training “to figure out exactly what we have.” Barring injury, it’d be a surprise if Carlson didn’t play in the Majors at some point in 2020.
More notes on some of the game’s most promising young talent…
- The Dodgers plan to utilize newly acquired flamethrower Brusdar Graterol as a reliever in 2020, writes Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times. That’s the same plan that the Twins had for the highly touted righty, making it all the more perplexing that the Red Sox claim to have backed away from the three-team iteration of the Mookie Betts blockbuster upon deciding that Graterol was best suited for the ’pen in the short-term. Dodgers skipper Dave Roberts tells Castillo that his understanding of Graterol’s medical review is that he’s “asymptomatic,” and the right-hander has impressed officials with his new club right out of the gate in camp. “A guy with his stuff, it’s just a different look for our bullpen,” pitching coach Mark Prior says. “The ability to bring that kind of raw power, impact into the game is only a good thing for us.” The state of limbo in which Graterol found himself after the Red Sox backed off the initial trade iteration wasn’t easy on the righty, who felt like he “had a weight on top of” him while awaiting resolution.
- White Sox righty Dane Dunning is slated to throw his first live batting practice of the spring next week, writes MLB.com’s Scott Merkin. That’ll be Dunning’s first time facing hitters since undergoing Tommy John surgery in 2019. Dunning, 25, was a consensus top 100 prospect heading into the 2019 season but didn’t throw a pitch during the season due to that surgery. Dunning, whom the White Sox acquired from the Nationals in the Adam Eaton trade, acknowledged that he’ll likely be on an innings limit in 2020. There’s no indication as to the organization’s target for him, but Dunning has never tossed more than the 144 frames he logged back in 2017 — be it in college or in pro ball.
- A knee injury shortened the 2019 season for Giants outfield prospect Heliot Ramos, but president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi believes that the 2017 first-rounder can “absolutely” ascend to the Majors in 2020, writes Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle. Ramos wasn’t invited to Major League Spring Training and has only played 25 games in Double-A, where he’ll likely open the 2020 campaign. But the Giants have a fairly wide-open outfield at the moment, with veteran Hunter Pence returning to join Steven Duggar and a pair of corner options with limited track records (Mike Yastrzemski and Alex Dickerson). Ramos, who hit .290/.369/.481 in 444 plate appearances between Class-A Advanced and Double-A when healthy in 2019, remains the organization’s top outfield prospect and won’t turn 21 until this September.
How is it Sox backing out of the deal involving Graterol perplexing? They were looking for someone who had a chance of being a starting pitcher as part of the deal, not topping out as a reliever. Nothing in how LA is planning on using him changes that view.
The idea is that it was well known that Minnesota planned on using him in relief, so it’s surprising the Sox didn’t take that into account
Not really, since as the previous posted stated, they were looking for a starter in the deal… instead they got a guy who’s a glorified reliever with some sort of injury concern. They must have been lead to believe initially that he was on track to be a starter.
If Boston wanted a starter why didn’t they as for Strippling or other Dodgers pitching prospect? Dodgers have 8 starters on MLB roster and 5 or more in top level minors.
Lol the whole industry thinks Graterol has reliever risk and the Red Sox got surprised by it? That’s a terrible look for an organization
They probably ask for May or Gray
Ever heard of reading medical reports, or even so much as using this thing called “google” to check out a guy prior to agreeing to a trade? Because the entire baseball world (minus the redsox brain trust) knew he wasnt a starter.
But what do I know…..
Boston wanted to acquire a high-ceiling prospect as a starter. Not a 29 year old swingman who has yet to log 130 IP in a single professional season.
Not a bad problem to have.
Turns out Bloom has “heard of reading medical reports,” which are typically exchanged only after the framework of a deal has been announced (and often after trade rumors have begun circulating).
Looks like what you don’t know is that the Red Sox FO decided upon reviewing medical records not to move forward with a Graterol acquisition.
They were looking for a starter but ended up with Verdugo and Downs. Hmmm
I suspect Henry made the call based on the negative response. To think Bloom didn’t know is not prudent. Maybe Henry was worried about the Southies.
using this thing called “google” to check out a guy prior to agreeing to a trade?
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I agree. Why actually look at MRIs? All you have to do is to Google Graterol, and Google will tell you the exact condition of his arm, and shoulder, and provide with a prognosis on whether he is likely to need TOS, or a second TJS.
That’s what I do now. Instead of going to the doctor about my elbow, I take a picture with my phone, and text it to him.
Henry made the call based on the negative response.
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1-Yeah, because he never thought there would be a negative response to trading our best player?
2-Because the negative response to acquiring Downs would be better than the negative response to acquiring Downs?
3-And because the RS run their organization based on what the writers feel?
Verdugo has a strong arm. Maybe the Sox think he can pitch.
That’s lame. It’s their job to know the players and their potential. Why did they agree to the deal and then change their mind??? Because everyone was criticizing them for the trade as a salary dump and they needed to suddenly ask for a bigger return.
Exactly! This is why trades are contingent on medical records being exchanged
Try again Zeppy. It is not lame. Trades are contingent upon medical record approval
it clearly didnt seem that intuitive. maybe within Minnesota circles it was, but I dont think everyone expected the move to be permanent.
I get not wanting a guy who you think will be just a reliever….but Sox got 0 pitching in the Betts deal.
You’d think if they said nope to Gaterol they’d ask for 2 lesser ranked arms from the twins like Smeltzer Thorpe Dobnak Littell or someone on the farm in addition to a pitcher from the dodgers like Josiah Gray by including more money for Price.
The flaw in that idea is the baseball history is littered with pitchers who were “tweeners”. For any given tweener, some scouts/teams are 100% confident that he is a future reliever, some 100% confident that he can handle being a starter, and many fall in between.
In addition, planning to use a pitcher in relief does not directly speak to a team’s long-term plan for a pitcher. For example, the White Sox planned (and executed) using Chris Sale for TWO FULL YEARS out of the bullpen to start his MLB career, never intending on that sticking, and then when they felt he was ready they moved him to the rotation.
So perhaps the Twins felt confident that Graterol’s future was bullpen only (and Boston disagreed, until it saw the medicals), perhaps the Twins felt Graterol would be wasted starting in the minors while the MLB team wanted to make a push and felt it would help more in the short term to use him in the MLB bullpen to start, or perhaps something else.
The real strange thing is that baseball fans know all this very well already…and yet, somehow, that knowledge has been cast aside when doing so conveniently allows for some nice schadenfreude of a team. I wonder what that says about the motivations of people…or, perhaps, about the ever-devolving integrity of the sports media (which in the past would have clearly noted all the things I just did here, from the start) in the clickbait era.
Anything to lead to a poor-intentioned laugh, I guess.
Even if Graterol turns out not to be a starter, he would have addressed SOME BoSox pitching need. They wound up addressing NO pitching need.
Well it was known that Minnesota saw graterol as a reliever and the Dodgers agreeing reinforces that belief. So the perplexing part is why they thought he would be a starter until it seems like public reaction to the deal changed their minds
Did the Red Sox brass truly not know that Graterol was headed for the bullpen? Or is that how reporters are spinning it? #FakeNews the deal was pending a physical, which Graterol did not pass. The Dodgers agreed to accept damaged goods because he sits 100 mph with tilt.
Do we know Graterol did not pass his physical? And, to echo another poster, why not ask for Stripling?
The only reason this guy is a relief pitcher is because he has arm problems. Otherwise he would be a starting pitcher. Why except a guy with arm problems? Easy to see why the Red Sox drooled at his potential at first, then passed on this deal.
Graterol did pass his physical lmao. He passed it in MN, passed in in BOS, and passed it in LA. If he didn’t pass BOS wouldn’t have vetoed the trade- not kept it in limbo. They still wanted Graterol, they just wanted an additional piece because of the backlash they received for such a bad trade. They still wanted Graterol, because he passed his physical, they were just poor sports, and everyone outside of BOS views this the same way.
dylla, don’t be a turd and make things up. There is zero evidence that Boston went looking for more based on a reaction to the trade. Likewise, Graterol passing a physical only means he was good to go to pitch…it has NOTHING to do with how well he’ll hold up medically in the future, particularly under a starter’s workload, and THAT is what Boston saw and didn’t like (it isn’t something a physical aims to evaluate).
It’s the same as an NFL player who has congenital spinal stenosis – it isn’t an injury or lack of health that causes a failed physical, but it is a VERY worrisome medical condition that threatens how healthy a player will remain over the long term.
Boston saw something of that nature in Graterol’s physical that made the team doubt that he would ever hold up as a starter, and thus he value to the team immediately dropped. Less value meant a weaker trade return, and thus the team sought more pieces or different pieces.
Only biased and/or uninformed folks who want to see something negative in the trade proceedings see it the way you framed it. In reality, it’s perfectly understandable. They weren’t “poor sports”…but you appear to be a troll.
He passed his physical. Hey, he is in spring training with the Dodgers!! LOL.
“Only biased and/or uninformed folk”
The literal consensus (outside of Boston) is what I stated. I haven’t commented on this topic yet but to see Red Sox fans continuing to live in delusion is ridiculous. Every major outlet has said the same thing. Boston has differed but the question still stands on how you can continue hanging onto a wrong opinion when everyone else held the same belief that Graterol was fine and Boston proved it by still wanting him in the trade? I’m sorry I just can’t continue on in this lecture if you’re bringing up baseless opinions.
Boston has differed but the question still stands on how you can continue hanging onto a wrong opinion when everyone else held the same belief that Graterol was fine and Boston proved it by still wanting him in the trade?
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Try talking to any Astros fan dylla.
That being said, Boston wanted a starter. They certainly need a starter.
Minnesota saw graterol as a reliever
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I never read that. I read that they were going to break him in as an RP, but I don’t know that their l/t plans were to keep him in the BP.. His last game start came in August, so it is not like they had him coming out of the BP for a long time.
Even if Graterol turns out not to be a starter, he would have addressed SOME BoSox pitching need. They wound up addressing NO pitching need.
Exactly!
Because he’s a two-pitch pitcher, and two-pitch pitchers rarely start. Any medical concerns aside, it’s far more perplexing how the Red Sox could be unaware of his limited arsenal. Unless he can develop a respectable change he’s going to be a reliever.
“Any medical concerns aside, it’s far more perplexing how the Red Sox could be unaware of his limited arsenal.”
Exactly.
Mo4ever, this trade was not completed ever at any time with this Minnesota pitcher. It’s the media who reports that it’s a deal. I’m sure these types of agreements happen all the time. A team will say, “what about this guy” and the receiving team will say,” okay let me think about that.”
The media reported as a done deal trade… it basically never got to that point. Boston thought about it, said no, we don’t like this guy, we need somebody else. It’s the media not the Red Sox jerking around here.
two-pitch pitchers rarely start…unless they are named Koufax…
I am impressed with Graterol stuff in that he throws 100 with easy and throws strikes. He could be in bullpen in 2020 then moved to aa starter. Future starters of Buehler, May and Graterol RH pitchers, with Price, Urais and Kershaw LH pitchers. Where is Graterol better at or more valuable at. Time will tell but Dodgers’ pitcher future look really good.
As a Dodgers fan I love the possibility of an upgrade to the bullpen.
And Boston should have as well. Even if they wanted a starter they need bullpen help badly too. They ended up getting neither. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Sox FO. I just don’t understand the Graterol pivot.
Mo4ever, what is it you don’t understand? The only reason this guy is not a starter is because he has arm issues. Why accept a guy with arm issues?
So the Dodgers did it.., they’d do whatever to get Mookie Betts. They’d take a dead guy !!
No, the reason he’s not a starter is because he’s stuck with two pitches. From what I read, that much everyone knew. He’s pitching fine for the Dodgers.
Okay then I guess we are reading two different reports. I’ve heard of the two pitches, but I also read about the arm issues.
Not to be harsh, but do MLBTR authors read each others’ posts? This post has content and quotes that’s EXACTLY the same about Graterol as the previous post! Talk about taking aggregation to the next level….
“hole” isnt the word id use. O’Neill is hardlt a push-over as an incumbent
lol rumored he’s “dropped some bulk” in ST. also everybody “is in the best shape” of their lives
odd he’d drop weight given he is the son of a body-builder. seems like he’d mostly have good weight.
Are the cardinals cheap skates or are they just rebuilding?? I can’t figure them out. It’s almost like they are pretending to compete to try to appease fans
Are you a Cardinals fan or are you just pretending to be one? You always comment about them negatively because they don’t do exactly what you want them to do with their money. Seems like they have a better track record of being right than you.
@mrperkins…the fact that Les thinks the cardinals are rebuilding should let you know that he doesn’t have a clue to what he is talking about….they just made the NLCS last year but he continues to ensue that the cardinals are rebuilding…he is as dumb as they come…cheap skates? top ten payroll…
He is a Reds fan.
He constantly talks crap on the Cards, you learn to ignore him.
I’d better see Ramos while he is still in Richmond. He may not be there long.
I feel like we drafted him 14 years ago. Shocked that it was only 2017. Lots of talk about him for a long time, need to give him a shot.
He’s 20. No need to rush it.
The only thing perplexing about Graterol and Boston’s thought of him being a starter is that anyone finds the idea perplexing. I thought baseball fans were knowledgeable about their own sport – how about thinking of past examples such as Chris Sale (spent two full seasons as an MLB RP before shifting to the rotation) and Johan Santana (used out of the bullpen for parts of four seasons before becoming a full-time starter) to see that just because a pitcher gets bullpen use doesn’t mean he can’t/won’t eventually become a dedicated starter?
It is not clear whether the Twins had him slated for the bullpen because they 1) thought he would be better served going the Sale route, facing MLB hitters out of the ‘pen before eventually becoming a starter, 2) doubted that he had the repertoire to be a starter, or 3) doubted that he could physically hold up as a starter medically. If 1 or 2, it’s EXTREMELY REASONABLE that another team such as Boston would disagree. Heck, perhaps the Twins simply didn’t think he was ready to contribute as a starter at the MLB level and, wanting to contend, felt bullpen use was the best way to use him in 2020, whereas Boston could stand to let Graterol start full time in the upper minors and be patient with him.
What is apparent is that Boston saw starter potential/makeup in Graterol on “tape”, but when it got a close look at his medicals – a close look that wasn’t available to the team prior to reaching a trade agreement – some red flag tripped that changed the team’s mind and led it to feel that he has little to no chance of ever holding up as a starter.
Boston didn’t do anything wrong, in that case – it couldn’t have known his medicals beforehand, nor was it foolish to think without those medicals that Graterol might end up as a starter. Likewise, it’s highly doubtful that Minnesota did anything wrong either – it’s possible the Twins unintentionally didn’t think to share some aspect of his medicals during the talks, but more likely the item that was a red flag to the Red Sox was something even the Twins hadn’t thought about/noticed or something that they didn’t think would matter and thus didn’t share.
I don’t get why people seem to want to create a villain here. Agreed-upon trades always come with the asterisk “pending medicals”, and just because medicals rarely hold a deal up doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, nor does it mean anyone did anything wrong leading to the medicals becoming an issue. The three sides in the deal went back to the drawing board, reached a deal that worked for everyone, and that’s all there is to it.
And the answer to why the MN were looking at Graterol as a RP IS:
2) (they) doubted that he had the repertoire to be a starter
Graterol’s an advanced two pitch prospect who has shown no signs of developing a successful third pitch. Yeah he could someday do it and become a starter, perhaps, but in the meantime he’s definitely a RP. From what I’ve read that much is OBVIOUS, with or without medical reports.
By all accounts, the Dodgers are going to do just fine with Graterol and the Boston FO will likely forever cause people to scratch their heads on this one and conclude that they succumbed to public pressure and pivoted to ask for more. I like the Boston FO but this was a real puzzler.
Mo4ever, your anti RedSox takes on this subject are tiresome to say the very least.
If you seriously think the Red Sox front office is going to change their mind on a baseball trade because of public opinion from guys like you and me, then I really question your path to logical conclusions. That reasoning doesn’t make sense. It really doesn’t.
Mo Vaughn sucks. (Yes I know. Don’t say it.)
Basically Robert’s is stating that Graterol is awesome and he doesn’t understand why was he rolled to the dumpster. And Cards are known to be real thrifty! Cardinal fans won’t admit to this, they are known to be baseball’s most arrogant fans. I will agree that the Cards are among the best in the business on making great decisions like avoiding the Pujol 10 year commitment. They are great at the philosophy of staying with their crop if prospects and most importantly developing them. And lastly don’t forget that they are do a well job on getting scrubs and developing them into good ball players for a season or two and then before anyone catches on that they’re becoming scrubs again they sell them off and get something out of them.
Well jobs are scary. Just as likely to find a skeleton down there as loose change tossed in for wishes.
Red Sox might wish they took Graterol after all is said and done. They look more and more like a July fire sale.
Well I think that could be by Design actually. This is evidently a lame-duck year. They’re resetting the tax line and trying to get young guys for their crappy Farm.
I can see trading away half their Bullpen and some of these name guys if they are performing well for more youth at the deadline.
I dont understand all the flack the Red Sox front office has received for refusing Graterol. All teams go through medical records and perform their own team physicals and make the decision after the fact. Why would they accept someone whom the dont deem fit. It doesn’t matter that the Twins have stated he was suited for the bullpen.
It was known he was set in stone as a relief pitcher. He’s currently set in stone as a two pitch pitcher. He’s an advanced prospect and he’s failed to develop a successful third pitch. That doesn’t compute for a SP. It may change in the future but for now ANYONE who evaluates and/or uses him HAS TO look at him as a RP. From what I’ve read that much was (and still is) OBVIOUS when the RS did the deal. And the RS need RP. They got neither a SP or a RP.
Those young guys mentioned should be competing with Carlson for two spots, LF and RF. Fowler should be fourth OF at best, barring injuries.
Good news on Dunning. I think he’s one of the White Sox’ most overlooked prospects. How strong he comes back from TJS will be huge, of course, but he could definitely be a #3 or #4 guy in their rotation, after Giolito and Kopech.
@hyraxwithaflamethrower
Take it for what it is, but the thought is if Dunning were to reach his potential, he could be the best of the bunch, and that’s saying a lot when you consider Kopech, Cease, Lopez, and Giolito in that bunch. Of course that was said before his TJS, so who knows what you’ll get from him at this point. Plus the obvious, he’s a prospect, there’s so much hype that goes with any highly rated prospect. I’ll be curious to see if he will be close to the same pitcher after TJS.
It would certainly be a step in the right direction if Dunning could start off in the bullpen later this season after getting some AA/AAA work. Compete for rotation 2021 Spring Training.
It almost drives me crazy that the birds sold Garcia, and traded Arozarena to clear a “logjam” of outfielders and then claim Austin Dean off waivers… I’m willing to bet Garcia and Arozarena out perform O’Neill, and Dean.
I’m a big Giants fan, and I don’t care really if anyone likes or doesn’t like what I have to say. But I think it’s garbage that the one guy who help the Giants win a ring (Huff) isn’t allowed to come to a reunion because of his political preference. What a crock a crap for the Giants to insert political games into baseball! Like what the dude says on Twitter or don’t follow it. It’s his business. Damn Giants think there the political police now. Smh
You have Bonds use steroids and who knows what the Giants knew about that all those years he used, and he gets invited back to the park anytime. Larry Baer gets suspended for his conduct with his wife, he’s back in the org. But Huff has different views then them and because it he can’t go be with his teammates and celebrate? Nuts to me!