7:19pm: The Cardinals will promote Carlson this weekend, Goold tweets.
8:42am: The Cardinals are in quite the pickle at the moment as they wait and hope to resume play this weekend. When the light turns green, the club will have to scramble to make up for missing roster members who’ll be sidelined indefinitely due to COVID-19 infections.
One significant potential move under consideration is the promotion of top prospect Dylan Carlson, according to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Indeed, Goold indicates that the club is setting the stage for a near-term call-up.
It’s something of an odd time to consider major organizational decisions, but the Cards are also still trying to compete and now have a clear opening. With a few outfielders among those to come down with the coronavirus, there’s an opportunity for regular playing time and a need for some upside.
Carlson is already in the 60-man player pool, but would require a 40-man roster spot. The Cardinals don’t need to worry about service time consideration much at this point, unless they’re inclined to wait until early 2021 to bring Carlson up. He won’t be able to accrue a full year of service, so can’t qualify for free agency before 2027 regardless of whether he’s promoted now or later in the 2020 season. Potential early arbitration qualification as a Super Two is possible, but that’s not nearly as compelling a concern.
Carlson, the 33rd overall pick of the 2016 draft, entered the present season ranked as one of the twenty best prospects in all of baseball. The switch-hitter raked in the upper minors last year, turning in a cumulative .292/.372/.542 slash with 26 home runs in 562 plate appearances.
Would be a decent gesture to their fans, considering what a trainwreck this season has been for the franchise so far.
why the heck not at this point
Cardinals should consider getting back on the field.
Unfortunately—- The Cardinals front office and Owners could care less about their team actually getting back on the field. That is, as long as there is “no penalty from MLB” to field a healthy team and isolate your sick all
Teams should be required to field a healthy team each day or forfeit that days game. That was the original intent of the 60 man
Expansion. So there would be enough
Healthy players to field a team each day.
If they didn’t promote him the first time around, then why now? Lane Thomas has had 3 at bats and Austin Dean has had 0. There is still no opening for playing time without removing a starter.
Lane Thomas and Austin Dean were both players who tested positive. We still don’t have the full list, so it’s possible there will be gaps in the outfield depth chart when they resume play.
Promote Justin Williams, play the service time game and promote Carlson mid-April 2021.
Article literally says they don’t have to worry about service time issues with Carlson now
For this year they don’t, but they can do the whole thing again in 2021 to control him another year longer.
They could also hold him down until 2023 to keep him longer too, but what would be the point? The history of Cardinals outfield prospects basically says that he will be gone via trade (or otherwise if he can’t cut it) by the time that service time elapses anyway..
Ms fans are dying to see our top hitting and pitching prospects Jarred Kelenic and Logan Gilbert, if we brought them up now we control them till 2026 or wait nearly 9 months & its thru 2027. Unlike your Cards we have zero to play for except the 1st pick of the 2021 draft. Your decision on DC is much tougher, at least he has a chance to help you on your journey to the post-season.
Our current 1B Evan White skipped AAA- he’s been struggling so badly (leads MLB in K/O’s,) because of that most of our fan base are content with keeping the rest of our prospects in the satellite camp. Btw- I’ve always admired the St Louis farm system, I don’t know how you do it but it seems like you’re able to develop ML talent year in year out. Must be nice haha
Lot of people don’t consider this to be a legitimate season, the Cardinals weren’t necessarily expected to compete for the WS this year, and there is also no guarantee that the season gets completed. It’s not crazy to think about waiting 9 months to gain an extra year of a “normal” 162 game year that would also be further into his prime.
Who cares what “lots of people” think? Besides, they are wrong anyway. The winner of this year’s World Series will get the exact same trophy as every other winner. They will listed in the record book as World Series champions of the 2020 season alongside the champs from 2019, 2009, 1969, 1909, and all the rest. Eventually people won’t even remember the plight of the 2020 season, All problems fade into obscurity eventually. All future fans will know is that Team X was the champ of this year. How is that not legitimate?
I never said it wouldn’t be legitimate. I actually believe this year will be harder to win, so any team that does overcome all the variables should certainly be celebrated. My point is that the Cardinals need to believe that they can win it all, which a lot of people did not believe was realistic prior to the season beginning, otherwise having the extra year of Carlson prime is probably worth waiting for from the business perspective.
This is 2020 kids aren’t in school or shouldn’t be due to irresponsible world leaders and Coronavirus so nobody should be expected to know how to read….
At this point, they’ll sign Jim Edmunds before they call up Carlson this year.
this comment aged well;)
You can say that again.
Jimmy baseball is signed, works as an announcer with Dan. They didn’t want him on the field back in 07 so they traded him, but I’m sure he’d be flattered by this comment ;p
Carlson needs real at bats to mature as a hitter.. Why would you not bring him up. Any player not playing real games at this point is stuck in a rut so to speak.
Why worry about service time now? Teams can always send guys back down to the minors if they want to stop the clock at a later time. Most players get sent back down after their initial promotion, so it wouldn’t even look weird. It is ridiculous to not bring people up when you have half your team gone.
If he comes up and performs well, he might have a chance to win a potential grievance, unlike guys who started the year in the minors. Obviously that would be good for the Cardinals, but they would lose a year of him.
Not unless he is consistently MVP-level good because they could easily say that he was just there as an injury replacement regardless of how he performs. Plus, every prospect has had slumps in which the big league team could get away with optioning them to “get their head together” in the minors. Even Bryant and Acuna had bad weeks. It’s really not that hard to justify. And it doesn’t look as obvious as holding off until mid-April or whenever.
Bryant had the best chance there and proved that doesn’t work. there was no clear rule broken. those grievances are unwinnable.
“2016 to 2018 Carlson was not performing up to expectations. Then 2019 he had a breakout season. We felt he needed a little more time in AAA as he played in AA for most of 2019. We also wanted to make sure the 2019 season was not an anomaly and not rush him too soon.”
Case closed, Cardinals win any grievance. Carlson could be the next Pujols and he’d still lose a grievance.
True. If any player this season has a argument for the grievance it’s Pearson. Gets called up to start literally the day he passes the service time threshold. The starters don’t even have to miss a start to do so. No reason he shouldn’t have been on the opening day roster other than service time.
Yep. The Jays will say, “we had an active offseason and did not foresee Pearson coming up this soon. Had we had a full season he would have been given more time in AAA, blah blah blah.”
Jays would also argue Pearson needed a little more fine tuning in AAA. But he was good enough to be a starter in that rotation.
The Cardinals don’t need to add two OFs . Justin Williams will do fine as a backup.
I’m still trying to get over the fact that he could have been Oscar Mercado…. Why did the Cardinals sign Dexter Fowler and trade Alcantara to Miami again..?…??? At least they didn’t trade Flaherty for Donaldson!
Heck, the Cards are only five games into the season. How about we give them a little time to fully understand what they have? They should reach double digit games by real Spring Training and have everything evaluated by then.
You have 938 ABs on Bader and in the last 419, he has a .201/.311/.360 slash. He is a 4th OFer due to great defense. Dexter Fowler is 34 and has been a barely league average bat for 3 years now with abysmal defense. Two of your 3 OF positions are pretty much wide open. No reason Carlson can’t be playing for one of them
What’s the point? They just had another game postponed.
Who was the last cardinals outfield prospect that stuck for a while and did well? Ray Langford?
Was he considered a prospect?
Pujols played left for a bit lol
Not counting those who died in auto accidents yes you are correct, Lankford and he put up the record for the most HR at Busch stadium. Think the cardinals could use his offense.
“Unbelievable depth” -Cards81
I don’t really think that comparing depth under the circumstances of a normal season with losing a third of your roster due to a pandemic is really fair. lol
If its unbelievable, meaning beyond ability to comprehend, then, I think it is relevant.
Hey Clepto remember when you where trying to tell me about the cardinals farm system and you didn’t know that they even traded for Libertore…good times…but yet you still come back to look like a fool….yea having a Covid outbreak and still putting together a good roster means that they have unbelievable depth…plus they can do it without bringing up their top prospect…which would be dumb to do at this point…but thanks come again…one more thing…stop obsessing about me…it’s getting kinda weird…do you dream about me and your next response about me lol
All anyone has to do is read the verbal diarrhea you just typed, and it isnt hard figure out that couldnt possibly make a salient point, and obviously, still believe they have “unbelievable depth”. Nice try fan boy. Nice try. Sorry, but it is that obvious.
Lol are you trying to tell me about the cardinals farm again…you crack me up Clepto…keep me in your thoughts I obviously am living rent free in your head…STOP OBSESSING OVER ME! No means no Clepto
According to Tard81:
2-3 record = “unbelievable depth”
He is here all weekend, everyone. Get your tickets early. Masks not needed.
Lol this can’t be for real…you are saying that the cardinals who haven’t played hardly at all and trying to compare their record to the depth they have?…am I getting this right? Pathetic…but hey that’s Clepto…you literally are obsessed about an adjective I used to describe the cardinals farm system loooooooooooooooooooooool but yet you don’t know anything about their farm considering t you didn’t even know they traded for Libertore…you are a pathetic looser dude…get a life please…it must suck I live in your mind this much …over an adjective…loooooooooool
I get it Clepto you’re still mad I made you look like an idiot about the Libetore trade…my best advice for you is to get over it we all make mistakes
“Unbelievable depth” -Tards81.
4th place, 2-3 record, middling ranked farm system. All stone cold facts.
“Unbelievable depth” You said it, loser, not me.
Damn someone had a bad day and took it out on some poor fool they don’t even know via the internet, wish I was that cool
Meh. Don’t pretend this is the first time or the last time.
Must kill you Clepto that the cardinals have a winning record now…according to you they are the best team in baseball…my little B;+€£
I’d rather have him play everyday over Bader
To address the “see what we got” narrative, here is a skeleton of a potential week of lineups for a healthy Cardinals team with Carlson up that will give everyone 4 out of 5 games.
Game 1
C Wieters
1B Goldschmidt
2B Wong
3B Carpenter
SS DeJong
LF O’Neill
CF Bader
RF Carlson
DH Fowler
Bench – Knitzler, Edman, Thomas
Game 2
C Wieters
1B Goldschmidt
2B Wong
3B Carpenter
SS Edman
LF Thomas
CF Bader
RF Carlson
DH O’Neill
Bench – Knitzler, DeJong, Fowler
Game 3
C Knitzler
1B Goldschmidt
2B Edman
3B Carpenter
SS DeJong
LF O’Neill
CF Thomas
RF Fowler
DH Carlson
Bench – Wieters, Wong, Bader
Game 4
C Wieters
1B Goldschmidt
2B Wong
3B Edman
SS DeJong
LF Thomas
CF Bader
RF Carlson
DH Fowler
Bench – Knitzler, Carpenter, O’Neill
Game 5
C Knitzler
1B Carpenter
2B Wong
3B Edman
SS Dejong
LF O’Neill
CF Bader
RF Thomas
DH Fowler
Bench – Wieters, Goldschmidt, Carlson
If the Cardinals wanted Carlson up, he would be up.
Edman started all 5 of the previous games at 3b, so he’s pretty clearly passed Carpenter, who is likely to continue DH and maybe fill in at 1b or 3b, but it’s close enough that we get the idea. Assuming everyone is healthy, MAYBE that team competes for the playoffs, but no one is picking that for a World Series. If they can’t win it all, there are a lot of financial reasons to wait 9 months and then call him up with an extra full 162 games in his prime and with fans in attendance. It’s not crazy.
It’s all going to matter which of the first 7 to hit the COVID IL are able to come back. I think as it sits right now they are probably looking at
1. Wong 2B
2. Edman SS
3. Goldschmidt 1B
4. Carpenter DH
5. O’Neill LF
6. Miller 3B
7. Carlson CF
8. Wieters C
9. Fowler RF
Schrock, ???, Bader, Knizner on the bench. Probably Carlson in LF, Carpenter at 3B, O’Neill at DH, and Bader in CF vs LHP.
Once those first 7 are back, which could be really soon, obviously things change a lot with Knizner and Sosa probably to the taxi squad, Schrock back to alt site, and Ravelo taking the other bench spot with Miller being the utility guy off the bench , Wieters going back to the back up C, and Edman shifting back to 3B.
The pitching is the really thin spot right now with 5 pitcher on the COVID IL, another 2 out for the year with injury, Hicks opting out, and nothing to call upon on the 60 man pool with 2 empty spots in the pen as it sits right now. Those initial 7 can’t come back soon enough….assuming the Cardinals actually get on the field Saturday.
This is a slam dunk decision. Bring the kid up and let him get a taste of the majors. If he succeeds, then the Cardinals will be thrilled. If he struggles, he’ll have gained some MLB experience and know what he needs to work on in order to make it back and stick with the ball club. With the service time issue out of the way, there is nothing but upside for the Cards and Carlson by promoting him.
The Cardinals could extract even more upside if they wait until next year. Additional revenue from actual fans, jersey sales, another full season of his prime. It’s not so clear cut.
They will make more money if he comes up and rakes this year. Fans will be dying to see him play in person.
They can’t see him in person this year. But moot now. Welcome to the big leagues kid.
I don’t think it’s a slam dunk…obviously the cardinals are going to have to do a lot to compete or for that matter complete the season…playing 14 innings all the time is not going help them out any…so why waste service time on a rookie when you could just wait for next year…I do agree that it would help him to get at bats in the MLB but is that really worth an extra year of service time?
owners are greedy bastards
Clouds over California
Can he opt out now and get credit for the service time? ;)
Call him up, and for the love of all that is good, can we somehow trade Fowler and bench Bader. Would rather see oneill, carlson thomas outfield with Williams as 4th outfielder
We can’t do that, the team might actually win and that would make Mozeliak look like he’s a fool spending all that damn money and trading good talent for rentals and question marks.
The b ref link takes you to a different Dylan Carlson
I recently watched a perfect game all-american game from a few years ago, that had tons of good high school senor prospects playing. Carlson hit a MOONSHOT in that game, and it reminded me of how special some of these prospects really are. (Oh and btw Kumar Rocker started the game… what a dude).
Maybe if Red Birds win next 11 straight AND Cubs stop playing for a week they’ll have a chance to be relevant again.
I have no idea of the reasoning of some of these comments. However—- It’s got to be John Mozeliak’s fault!!! Everything else is.
Everyone seems to think DC is the next Albert Pujols! What if he’s the next Harrison Bader? Let him play and see what he has! What’s the harm? This year will Not count towards a year of service time. So let’s see what he can do!
Drl, you’re only thinking from the fan perspective. There is a significantly greater business benefit if they waited until 15 days into a (hopefully) normal season next year.
Kris Bryant was pretty obviously manipulated, but unless they explicitly say “we are holding Dylan Carlson down to manipulate service time” precedent shows that the service time would not be an issue by waiting. He would then be looking at a similar 150-ish games for his first season instead of “see what he can do” during the theoretical remaining 55 possible left in this current weird season. There is already speculation that they won’t be able to get them all in, so assuming he plays every game of whatever they can fit in, that’s maybe 50 games? So already that’s 1/3 of the value of the non-service year, which some would consider a harm, or at least less than optimal.
If they win the World Series, then sure it’s worth that trade-off. But not many people expected a title prior to the season and now their team is not able to field their optimal lineup for at least a few of these now even more shortened games. By waiting, the entire career timeline pushes back a year, so the same “not counting toward service time” argument would effectively trade this weird season for almost a full regular season and the overall team control would then be ending one year further into Carlson’s prime. Even if he’s more Bader-like, that is still more valuable of an asset.
Again it’s probably moot now that he’s up, but from a business perspective, it was not and still is not crazy to think about waiting.