Oct. 1: Giles’ surgery was performed yesterday, tweets MLB Network’s Jon Heyman. It’s hard to imagine him pitching much in 2021 — if at all.
Sept. 21: Blue Jays closer Ken Giles, plagued by arm injuries throughout the season, is headed for Tommy John surgery that will quite likely wipe out the entirety of his 2021 campaign as well. Giles first announced the move via his wife’s Instagram account, and Toronto skipper Charlie Montoyo has confirmed as much, per ESPN’s Marly Rivera (Twitter link).
Giles’ arm problems date back to last season, when elbow issues prevented him from changing hands around the 2019 deadline in July. Giles looked like a prime candidate to move before then, as he was among the majors’ most dominant relievers. Toronto had to retain the hard-throwing right-hander as a result of his health woes, and the club could now lose him for nothing in the next couple months.
Giles logged a sterling 1.87 ERA/2.27 FIP with 14.09 K/9 and 2.89 BB/9 in 53 innings last year, and an encore could have put him in line for a qualifying offer and an expensive contract during the upcoming offseason. Instead, Giles was unable to follow up and could only throw 3 2/3 innings of four-run ball in 2020. Neither a QO nor a high-paying deal figure to be in the cards for Giles in the coming months, then.
Toronto, to its credit, has fared well this year despite few contributions from Giles. The club is 27-26 and in line for a playoff spot without Giles, who will now face an especially uncertain future as the former Phillie and Astro heads into free agency for the first time. The Jays acquired him from the Astros in a deal for fellow reliever Roberto Osuna in July 2018.
Like Verlander, should have done this months ago.
Captain Hindsight reporting for duty
he’s not wrong and many could have predicted this outcome, especially with Giles.
Doctors, patients, and employers have to adhere to a different standard than random strangers making predictions from a distance.
Congratulations on correctly hazarding a guess about something that doesn’t affect you at all?
You don’t have TJS on a prediction. You have it when the doctors advise it. He’s still missing all of 2021 if he has it now or two months back.
Would have made no difference in timeline, he still would have missed all 2021 and been fine for 22 in both instances
Chris Sale, Justin Verlander, Ken Giles, and so many others. TJ seems to be an epidemic that just keeps worsening.
MLB doesn’t seem to think this is a problem. Otherwise they would come up with a solution to help prevent this from happening as often as it does (but it will happen). TJ is the best job creator in baseball.
Players need to also recognize that the prospect of missing a full season plus a season of gradual recovery will make it harder for clubs to hand out those $20-$30 million paychecks. Contracts will get shorter, more incentive-laden, and likely at lower guaranteed levels. This is a big deal for owners and players alike.
Yes. So how do you help alleviate the problem? There are ideas that can be tossed around. Baseball has to be committed to making changes that do not “help” offense. They’ve driven the game toward catering the hitter and boosting offense. That cannot happen anymore if they want to help prolong the careers of pitchers, starting pitchers in-particular.
Bill, in baseball I’m a better “problem finder” than “problem solver.”
Here’s one idea: call strikes like they used to – knees to armpits. This would widen the strike zone over current practice and keep pitchers from having to throw perfect pitches all the time.
That is one idea I can absolutely get behind. I’d also like to see the mound raised back to 15 inches like it was before expansion.
And since hitters can wear all the padding they want, allow pitchers to wear an elbow brace if they so choose.
I’ve got a crazy idea that might work. Make it illegal to throw a pitch faster than 96 mph. Force pitchers to work on locating and changing speeds.
Will it solve everything? no, but it could help limit a lot of the tension that is destroying the arms of young men. Will people go for it? I don’t expect so.
I’m sure folks will point to the guys who throw hard and don’t go under the knife, and guys who don’t throw near that hard but still get TJS. I still hazard to believe that avoiding the push for velocity would do wonders overall.
Perhaps call a ball for every pitch over 97mph up to a limit of 5 before the pitcher will be removed? called for a balk? pitches count as two balls? it’s nuts and too radical for baseball I’m sure.
why don’t we just adopt the little league rule. so many pitches allowed and then you’re taken out. better pitch that NO NO on 100 or less
But most teams are already doing pitch count rules like that, often less than a 100 pitch limit.
Teams get such ludicrous discounts on pitchers (and hitters) who perform at star levels before hitting free agency that if they didn’t overpay veterans, players wouldn’t get nearly their share of revenue.
there is no “solution” except to stop pitching
Or if you wanted to get drastic, move to pitching machines.
The max speed or max pitch counts won’t work. We’ve watched monitoring over the last 20 years and they have not worked for the most part.
Raise the mound. Let’s see what happens. Give it 5 years then re-assess. There are more ideas but that’s the first change I’d make along with the rule book strike zone be enforced.
Raising the mound just artificially suppresses offense and, hence, fan interest. Modern fans have little interest in a steady diet of pitcher’s duels. I wouldn’t go that route at all. Frankly I don’t think there is a solution. We’re stuck with TJ surgery until medical science comes up with something else.
Mo4ever welcome back. Unfortunately we cannot correlate fan interest to high offense so you’d be incorrect. To say fans will immediately leave if scoring drops is wrong. Fans want excitement and entertainment. That is not code for “let’s help increase scoring”.
History has proven the best pitchers going toe to toe brings fans to the TV screen. The highest rated games in baseball history weren’t necessarily because of high scoring. It’s a belief that have no fact.
As one point of reference, the DH has worked. Replacing a pitcher who can’t hit with a DH who can has proven a superior approach. Now both leagues employ it. Essentially the loss of strategy which NL fans decry was deemed an acceptable loss, for most fans who couldn’t even follow the strategy, especially in the box score, vs. the increased offense with the DH. To a point, increased offense makes a better product for the average fan. Maybe not the afficionado, who maybe can appreciate a steady diet of pitcher’s duels, but definitely the average fan, who likes to see HR’s, on most nights prefers the action of a 7-5 game over a 1-0 game, where there are 200+ pitches with no offensive result. The Cinncinati-Atlanta game the other night was one of those exceptions. It WAS exciting BECAUSE it was an exception. If half the games in the postseason were 1-0 or in that territory it would be less exciting, again, for the average fan. Hence the argument against the offense-crushing 15″ mound.
The Reds/Braves game was exciting. Proving the argument of extra offense is false. Homeruns, for lack of a better word, is boring. We see bombs, strikeouts and a lot of pitching changes. The ratings do not reflect your argument as truth. Those numbers do not lie. You don’t have to be a fan of fangraphs to understand that.
Universal DH continues to be a topic because pitchers simply cannot hit, they look embarrassed at the plate the majority of time and teams don’t want to see an injury on offense.
You claim 1-0 games aren’t exciting. You know what is? The triple, double plays of any kind, close plays at bases, bunt singles, hit and run execution….actual BASEBALL PLAYS! Fans will accept a 1-0 game if plays are being made. The homerun will not go away thanks to technology, small parks and stronger hitters. My way would allow more low scoring games, QUICKER games and less injury. Triple win.
Automate the strike zone… ( Give the pitchers back the letter high strike) more strikes, more swings, faster pace, LESS pitches eventually after everyone adjusts
Raise mound 3 inches (Alleviates a little stress on arm *if proper mechanics )
– Special Dl for Sps – No need to stipulate why, just open the doors up for unlimited 5 day Dl trips for Sps – A lot of the time they just need to miss a start after a brutal high pitch high stress start before
***** A lot of this has to start at the AAU/travel ball level anyways where pitchers are toasting their arms for the coat tails of the coaches dreams…If your a parent of a good pitcher you most certainly have the right to “jump in” here whenever you deem it nessasary – Your kid shouldnt be pitching anywhere over 75 inns a year at 14/15 no matter what the level
Rain delay they definitely need to give pitchers the top of the zone. Also, if a hitter wants to crouch down and the pitch crosses the eyes but it would cross the top of the chest when standing straight up, it’s a strike. There are many curves that cross the plate over the knees and is caught below the zone. By rule, it’s a strike because it crossed the actual zone. Call that pitch. It’ll upset hitters and the sensitive media but it’s time to do the right thing by the rule and hope the injuries drop thanks to the “change”.
I do agree about the travel team stuff. These coaches have to be more responsible.
Urban legend is Chavez Ravine never dropped the mound height. If true, games have not been less exciting in that ballpark.
I think the problem is that the human arm isn’t designed to throw overhand at top speed this many times. There’s no real way to solve the problem. Guys can’t start throwing 80. Guys throwing 100 are going to get hurt. C’est la vie.
There is a way. It’s not a popular way, but there is a way. I’ll give you a hint: watch some games today, then watch a game from the 1980’s, even early 90’s. Focus on the umpires and hitters. Check the differences and you will have your answer.
But I’d lift the mound back to 15 inches like it was before 1968.
Is your answer to just shift the advantage a bit toward pitching in order to reduce the overall workload on pitchers? I’m not necessarily saying that wouldn’t make a difference, but I also wonder if it’s impossible to avoid pitching injuries when guys are throwing in the high 90s regularly, and have to in order to thrive.
Not completely. 15 inches was an MLB rule for decades which is one reason to go back to it.
I believe two big changes must be made and you will see pitchers use less velocity (in my opinion); one is the umpires do their job while avoiding overpolicing of pitchers. The other is in the clue I gave in my previous comment.
If you look at the % of pitchers who undergo Tommy John surgery, year by year, you’ll arrive at a different opinion.
Bring the facts. Better yet, narrow it down to guys having it before the age of 30 and before the age of 25. And then add the guys who have it who aren’t in the majors but play professionally in the minors.
We’ll wait.
Right!? Especially when this season is already loss.
Disappointing for Giles. He had a terrific 2019 and should have been the Jays representative at the All Star game. I hope the Blue Jays re-sign him in a similar manner other teams have signed players recovering from TJ.
2 years, $8 mil total with plenty of incentives
Yep. Add an option on-top if he hits benchmarks upon his return. If the Jays plan to contend in 2022-23 they will want Giles.
In other news water is wet. He needed this 16 months ago
Second cheater down in three days.
It’s getting old.
he was bad in the postseason? intentionally throwing?
Yeah….really old. Like it was really old 6 months ago. In other news, the White Sox were busted for throwing the 1919 World Series
Giles did hit a ton of bombs in Houston didn’t he?
Just looked up Ken Giles stats… no bombs, in fact he has 0 at-bats in his career.
That clearly clears him from being a cheater then.
It was the cheater batters who benefited from the cheaters in the dugout or bullpen or wherever they were banging on trash cans. Was a team effort.
I don’t think he was a cheater, but regardless it’s better than the abuser we traded away.
This TJ is really getting around. He should have worn an arm mask (just kidding!)..
This joke is so stupid yet I still laughed
Hate to see that happening in his FA year. Would love to see the Jays sign him to something like a 2yr 4M dollar deal to cover his recovery year and his first year back from TJ. Benefits both sides. Giles May have had issues in Houston, but, he was great with the Jays both on the field and in the club house.
So if a team traded for Giles, say, this spring, would the team he went to have done a physical and said that his UCL looked damaged, or did this come on in his recent ramp up? If the UCL damage came via the ramp up, the team he was traded to still would said he needed to heal from his previous injury. I was just wondering if he could’ve gotten the surgery sooner if he was traded earlier in the season (of course the trade would’ve been put off due to the physical).
huh?
Well, that’s quite a punch in the face…
Ugh that’s awful. He was awesome in Toronto and will go down as one of their most under appreciated players considering he was dominant in seasons it never really mattered. Hopefully he can come back strong for somebody in 2022.
It seems there is a recent tendency to put off the inevitable. To add to the list: the extremely frustrating case of Seranthony Dominguez.
Serious question, do reporters monitor players’ spouse’s IG’s?
Most likely.
It seems stupid to have wasted all the time he did trying to “rehab” the injury when it was basically clear months ago that he needed TJ surgery. Now he’s essentially cost himself not only (basically) all of this season but now ALL of next year as well. Whereas if he had just gotten the surgery when it was first clear that he most likely needed it… he’d have had the chance to come back mid-way through next year. Idk I guess if he thought there was a legitimate shot he could’ve avoided surgery all-together he felt it was worth the chance… but from everything I’ve read TJ surgery really was inevitable for months now… and instead of being several months into his rehab he’s now going to have to undergo the knife and spend the next 12+ months rehabbing. Idk but if it were me I would’ve thought I’d have wanted to get it over with as soon as I could so I could come back sooner rather than later.
After losing his velocity, Giles was still throwing 94. In the old days, he’d have just kept on pitching and shrugged off the velocity as a sign of age. Part of the problem with injuries these days is they can’t sign a good contract unless they throw 99, so they opt for surgery.
Baseball plays better at 90 than 100 though. You get contact instead of strikeouts, you can hit and run. Less walks. You can get complete games and your pitchers can stay on the field all year. It’s a shame we’ll never go back to that.
I wonder if Ken Giles health was mismanaged? It sure seemed a long time coming for TJS. Another BlueJays asset is dispatched with no return.
there is a concern with the Blue Jays. the number of elbow and forearm strain related injuries this year is amazing. yes the shutdown didn’t help pitchers but not too many teams can say they had this many common injuries
Blue Jays like to walk a lot of batters so I’d say there is no mismanagement whatsoever. Just an observation. Explains the pitching problems.
If you can’t trust management unable to fill out lineup cards or demand smart baseball, who can you trust?
He pretty much hasn’t pitched back to back games for a couple of years. How much more can you baby a guy’s arm?
Given how well he pitched when healthy and the potential that’s still there, it may be a good opportunity to find a contract here. It’d be a nice gesture to cover him while recovering and probably be able to get a couple of years at a good price thereafter. If he returns to form – and there’s every chance he can – he’d be a bargain and a big piece of the bullpen. Jays have virtually no commitments for a while yet, too, so it’s certainly doable.
Should’ve traded him last year. Once you make up your mind, get it done. Just for fun, check out how the 3 RPs the RS traded are doing. Too much performance risk and too much injury risk.
TJS is the greatest enabler of…TJS.
I’m hoping the Jays offer him a contract. They have the financial ability to do so and if he can come back from TJ surgery it could be a worthwhile signing.
Anyone not built like hulk hogan ever get the surgery?( david wells ,pedro martinez, ) theres the problem.