George Springer is one of the most prominent of the many free agents the Blue Jays are reportedly exploring this offseason, though the Jays’ initial interest in Springer seems to be developing. According to Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi, the Jays have “progressed beyond just talking” with Springer, which would seem to indicate that Toronto has issued at least one offer to the former World Series MVP.
Such a step doesn’t necessarily indicate that a deal could be close, or even that Springer is the Blue Jays’ top free agent target. However, the Jays already made one early signing in bringing Robbie Ray back to the club on a one-year contract, and the wide net Toronto is seemingly casting over so many free agents could indicate that the Blue Jays are looking to strike while many other teams are still figuring out their payrolls or (along those same lines) planning to wait to make moves later in the offseason in order to find bargains. Davidi opines that the Jays first seem to be looking at position players in order to “nail down their lineup adds, figure out what’s staying, and then trade to get pitching help.”
From Springer’s perspective, there are pros and cons to signing early (with the Jays or any other team). Signing a deal now would allow him to avoid any prolonged uncertainty on the open market and allow him to entirely focus on the 2021 season with his new team. If the Blue Jays are one of relatively few teams who reportedly have money to spend this winter, signing would ensure that Springer can get top dollar rather than see Toronto spend its payroll on other players and then leaving Springer short a major suitor.
On the other hand, while the expected free agent crunch should impact players in the middle and lower tiers of the market, Springer and the other top-tier free agent names can safely assume they’ll still find an appropriately big payday. MLBTR ranked Springer third on our list of the offseason’s top 50 free agents and projected a hefty five-year, $125MM deal for the outfielder, even as he enters his age-31 season. As such, Springer faces no real rush to sign immediately since he knows a big contract awaits somewhere.
Springer might also want to wait for his market to fully reveal itself, once more teams do get their budgets finalized and more offers emerge. For instance, the Mets don’t seem to be fully diving into offseason moves until they figure out their front office situation, and loom as a potential bidder for just about anyone. “While the Blue Jays may be willing to set the market, agents will probably want to wait for the Mets to drop the gauntlet,” Davidi writes.
I wouldn’t sign a cheater IMO.
Blah blah. What a dumb post when I’m assuming you’re referring to the sign stealing stuff. It’s not like he had a PED issue. Wow!!
stealing signs is much worse especially by the team top to bottom.
He didn’t exactly set the system up. Most young guys in the league would have went gotten in on it if the vets were doing it
I didn’t invent the gun but that doesn’t give me the right
To shoot people
Literally every team is loaded with cheaters lmao
Agreed. He’ll always be nothing but a pathetic cheater to me.
Isn’t Troy Tulowitzki at his 20 million a year the highest the Blue Jays have ever paid a player? I just don’t see them getting Springer he seems out of their price range.
No. It was Donaldson at 23M
The team has run out high priced payrolls for their respective times. I think Tulo is the biggest overall commitment at about $105m. That was a previous front office. This front office has mostly overseen a rebuild, so we don’t know how they will spend while seeking contention. They set the bar at Ryu’s $80m last offseason.
I think the organization is more to blame than individual players.
Springer from everything I’ve ever seen seems like someone you want your kids looking up to. Put 2017 on the back burner and look at Springer as a person you’d never know he was a part of a team that stole signs. How much of that was nessicarly his idea? I thought Beltran, Cora, and Hinch were more to blame than your everyday players who benefited from the signs being stolen. Springer has hit the same even after the scandal so how much did it really help him? I think evidence suggested he hit worse with the bangs than he did without them. At the end of the day Springer seems like a selfless player who would be a great teammate to have. Possible mentor and leader, something the blue jays would want around the young core.
This post is dumb.
As a Jays fan…
(squints)
(thinks)
(wonders)
…
yeah i would pass
Why? He’d be a massive upgrade in center field over Grichuk. And he’s shown he can still hit without cheating. The only players on Houston I would consider “undesirable” are Altuve and Correa.
Perhaps 14 wants other needs addressed first?
I like Springer. I think he has 1-2 more good years in CF which will be enough until Martin arrives. But I understand some Jays fans would rather see a big name pitcher or an infielder as better use of their money.
I just feel like long-term it’s not the best move. He’s already 31 and presuming he gets a 5-year deal by the end of it he’ll probably be dead weight blocking Martin. He could shift to an outfield corner, but I feel like his best days are already behind him. My preferred focus would be (I wonder…) pitching. Paxton, Walker, etc; are all options I would look into.
I agree 14. Two SP and an INF before I’d look at CF. Jays can probably get by with Grichuk for one more year. If Grichuk can be traded though, I’m on-board with Springer.
Walker should be signed yes.
I’m curious to know how you think he’s not an upgrade on Grichuk’s defence in CF…..and with an actual almost MVP level bat that JBJ doesn’t have. cF is a clear need for upgrade. The last year or two may be tough to swallow defensively – but that’s how FA works…..4-7 WAR players aren’t a dime a dozen. he’s a top 20 talent with the bat – the defence (and ability to play a premium position) is a bonus.
I never said he wasn’t an upgrade. It’s merely a game of “would you rather” and at what cost. Springer is an upgrade over Grichuk in every facet of the game.
But that doesn’t HAVE to be how free agency works. The notion that he’s great now, so you must overpay him for his twilight years is arbitrary. Just don’t do it! Sign someone you’re more likely to get dollar for dollar value. Or just offer 2 years, 80 million and save yourself 45 million instead of giving him 125 for 5 years when you know he’s likely to only be great for two (if that). Overpaying free agents well past their usefulness is what unimaginative front offices do. It’s not a requirement.
That is the way our current collective bargaining agreement works. If you like a player you pay for post prime years for what they did during arbitration years and end up ripped off by the end of the contract. Theres always the intangibles though that go beyond just box score or statistics. Like club house personality ECT ECT. There has to be a better way to some out money to performing players.
I agree with both of you, just leave Paxton alone. He’s gonna hurt you as much as he helps. Depth can be had without signing that guy. He just can’t stay healthy, why waste your money on him?
It’s the way it works cuz it’s the way it’s done. It doesn’t have to be done that way. Don’t do it that way and it won’t be done that way.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving Paxton a big contract until he can stay healthy. His overall numbers in 2019 look ok, but I remember him being far from a sure thing every 5th day iirc
I don’t think you can look at him that way. He’s getting into Rich Hill territory.
Teams hoping for ~ 140 innings of a very good second starter are the ones that will be interested. I think he’ll get paid as such.
Fwiw, he was good for the Yankees in the postseason, too. That ,also, might help him get paid.
Altuve was one of the few that you could actually price was good even before the trash cans.
Lol, one of the only ones not to use the system
As a jays fan… I think you are crazy
While I think Springer is a good player, I think his contract will be the second coming of Jayson Werth 2.0.
So he’s Jayson Werth 3.0?
Let’s move on from the past,,,,,,the early years of baseball had their versions of how to cheat,,,,,now our era has technology to detect cheating,,,,,,,who the ——
knows what’s gonna be seen 20 yrs from know.
Until the league and the union kick out cheaters, we have a right to talk about it. It’s our game. Without fans there is no baseball. The beat down MLB took financially this past year proved that. Just because there were cheaters in the past doesn’t mean such has to be accepted. I keep harping on the marriage with legalized gambling. Unless there’s a true zero tolerance policy, eventually the league will become impacted financially due to class action suits. By faking discipline and being ignorant could translate into inferred acceptance and potential liability to those that were financially harmed from the cheating.
I didn’t even read the article. Fans don’t always know best but, this time they do. The Jays need pitching everywhere; George Springer is the wrong move and the wrong message. Pass!!!!!
If it’s 5yrs or less and under $100 million total, get this done! The OF needs desperate help in Centre
It won’t be under $100M total if it’s 5 years.
Signing Springer means Vlad is moving to 3B IF the Jays can’t move Grichuk. They might set their sites on dealing Tellez which they should not.
Guerrero is reportedly getting into shape to move back to 3B, he wasn’t happy to move across the diamond and i can’t imagine player or team were very happy with his lack of conditioning when summer camp resumed. Signing Springer has no bearing on where Guerrero will play
Vlad can be unhappy all he wants. He was fat and out of shape. He’s not entitled to 3B since his hands need work. Two years in a row he’s been fat.
Signing Springer gives the team 4 starting OFs with Grichuk, Gurriel and Hernandez. Grichuk slides to RF, Teoscar to DH and that leaves Tellez at 1B, thus moving Vlad to 3B.
Unless there is a trade, Springer’s signing will have a temporary ripple effect so yes, it will have that bearing you claim they won’t have. Nobody is lining up to take on Grichuk’s contract.
Tellez won’t net the Blue Jays much of a return at all if he were made available via trade. Probably a minor league bullpen pitcher with promise is the most they could hope as a return.
This is correct. But Tellez should not be traded as he continues to improve.
What do you think his ceiling is? His minor league numbers are right in the middle, good, but not consistently great. He had a pretty bad offensive season in ‘19 but looked good in ‘20 in a small sample size.
I would say Tellez ceiling would be as high as the consistency of his contact and plate approach would take him. As a first basemen anyways. He could be a poor mans David Ortiz or a modern day Chris Davis it depends on his consistency
Thanks. I’ve known the name but never really knew what scouts and local fans thought of him.
I don’t think you worry about Tellez. At least not to the point where you are not signing a player who makes your team better. He’s fine as a part time 1B/DH bench bat if Vlad ends up at first. If he hits, he’ll get at bats. But I can’t imagine not signing a top tier talent because you want to guarantee Tellez an everyday role.
Tellez at a much smaller salary trumps Grichuk. Then add a $20+ million dollar player to the mix. All to give up on a guy who’d produce more than Grichuk?
Nobody believed me when I said the Grichuk extension was awful. Now the focus is on Tellez because Vlad can’t play 3B. Tellez should be guaranteed an everyday spot on this roster because he has earned it. Can’t fill the roster with tens of millions everywhere on the field so yes I want Tellez playing every day.
He did well last year in about a months worth of play and that would make me keep the options open. He could earn his way to an everyday role if he hits. But how likely is that? He was awful in the only full season he got regular playing time. He did well enough in a bench role this year, but maybe that’s just the best use for him. He didn’t cut his chase rate down and still doesn’t walk because of that. His hard hit % actually went down. His contact % in the zone was way up but I wonder how sustainable that is. Especially if he is a guy pitchers start to consider not just challenging in the zone. He might make the proper adjustments, I just don’t see the sustainable developments like I saw with Teoscar. I wouldn’t rule Tellez out and he’d get opportunities. The Jays want to be like other competitive teams who don’t fall off in quality after their starting nine. A guy who might not be a major leaguer like Tellez needs to be pushed out of the top nine if you are going to consider yourself successful at moving towards being a competitive team this offseason. That doesn’t mean he has to be blocked from fairly regular playing time, but guaranteeing it doesn’t exactly give them a fallback. Vlad is the issue more than Grichuk is. Are they really going to let him try to take back 3B? If so, then Tellez is the guy at 1B. If not, then there really isn’t a role for Tellez unless they want a dedicated DH which is something I think they’ve tried to avoid.
If Grichuk is not the issue then why are we even discussing the acquisition of George Springer? Especially with other needs around the diamond? This is the point I was driving home and you want to run this in circles.
Considering Tellez has been a better hitter than Grichuk over the last two years you can stop with the rhetoric over him potentially not being a major leaguer. You have bought into the hate on Tellez, and he doesn’t deserve. Look at the numbers the last two years. He is a more dangerous hitter than Grichuk. Do not tell me Grichuk is not the problem when he’s making 8-figures to be nothing more than a 7-hole hitter on this Jays team. Grichuk, and Teoscar’s lack of defensive ability is why Springer is a target in the first place. Who’s getting the shaft? Tellez.
No hate for Tellez here. But he is not established as a big leaguer. In ’19 he received regular playing time over the course of a full season and put up a 91 wRC+. If the only position you can play is 1B and you are not particularly good at it, you can’t put up a 91 wRC+. He struck out 28% of the time that year because he had no idea how to control the strike zone. He looked completely overwhelmed and hopeless. It was hard to see how down on himself he looked after each noncompetitive at bat. His results were much better this year and I think he deserves a roster spot because of it. But not a starting role on paper. He has to still earn that and should receive the requisite time to show that.
The difference between Grichuk and Tellez is that you need four outfielders and they currently only have 3 major league quality outfielders. As a fourth outfielder, you can fill in for 3 other players and DH and will play a lot. As a backup 1B only, you can DH and that’s it. And most teams are disinclined to gum up the DH. In that way, if Vlad is seen by the organization as a 1B, Tellez becomes an awkward fit as he can’t play anywhere else. Tellez can force the issue by keeping up last year’s results and lay claim to an everyday DH role for now. But I don’t see them wanting to stick with that model for the long term. If he’s good enough to be a regular, he’ll likely be on the move. So yeah, it’s not so much about Grichuk, it’s about Vlad. The only way for Tellez to be penciled in to longer term plans for the Jays is for Vlad to be seen as a legitimate option at 3B going forward. In the short term, I’m happy for a little healthy competition between him and Grichuk for at bats.
Tellez still has some upside. I want to see him on the team. Trouble us the Jays gave 3 1B/DH types in Tellez, Hernandez and Vlad Jr.
Jimmer we’ve been talking about that for over a year. Kam wants to claim Tellez is not an established major leaguer. His logic is flawed because if Tellez is not “established” then neither is Bo Bichette.
Nobody would say that because the media hype machine is up on Bo and not on Tellez, thus the perspective Kam and others have on Tellez. He was second in OPS to Teoscar last year. He’s the starting 1B in my mind with Vlad at DH.
I also do not buy 4 OFs. You need 3 starting OFs and your bench OF needs to be a speedy defender (Davis) and/or a RH bat to spell the lefty who cannot hit lefties. Jays don’t have that, so signing Springer means they need to deal a current OF, Tellez or Vlad. Stupid to put Tellez in Buffalo with BIGGER needs (SP and SP.
If Tellez can give you over .800 OPS making under a million you take that every single time.
Guests, I don’t think you are reading my comments objectively. I guess I hit a nerve as you are assuming I’m saying Rowdy is no good and all I am saying is that I’m not sure what is more real: the full season ’19 Rowdy or the limited look ’20 Rowdy. His good showing more recently suggests he might be improving and deserves more look, but given that he was not good in the only full season sample size, I don’t think it’s a good move to cut off your possibilities to get better because of him. Plus, like it or not, if Vlad is a 1B and the organizational philosophy is to keep the DH spot open to rotate guys through and have a more flexible roster, that kind of makes Rowdy an awkward fit.
Personally, I like him. I think there’s more than most people expect of him. If he’s the gap to gap version of himself that we’ve seen in small stints instead of the pull power version he sometimes buys into, he can have some success. But help me out because I’m on the fence: What is it that you see that suggests the raw number production from ’20 is sustainable rather than trending back to the previous year’s performance?
It wasn’t a nerve. I pointed out your flawed logic and acknowledged your perspective is skewed by the Sportsnet media, exposing the holes pointed out.
We can play the silly game of “can _____ sustain that production” for every player. Why didn’t you mention it for Grichuk? Or Bichette when you factor his minor league numbers? He’s had barely a half season in the majors. You want to send him to Buffalo with Tellez?
Bichette has a smaller sample size yet you are targeting Tellez. Tellez is a better hitter than Grichuk, and Grichuk had his best season in 2020 yet no small sample size argument for him. Still haven’t solved the starting pitching or 3B problem which will not improve the lineup by eliminating Tellez, small sample included.
Bichette has just as big a sample size of good production as Tellez. What Bichette doesn’t have that Tellez does is a full awful season in between his good partial seasons which is the thing you seem to be ignoring. I like recency when looking at young players, but Tellez has more than twice as much bad sample as he does good sample. What I’m asking for because I’m here to learn is why you see the production in ’20 as sustainable. I really don’t know and I’m asking for a real answer. An answer that is not just “because I like him and I think he’s good”. Are the metrics behind the ’20 numbers sustainable and do they mean anything in as small a sample as it was?
To me, the K rates were cut by a lot. Like a huge jump. But the alarming thing is that the chase rates didn’t really change. What changed was that he made more contact both in and out of the zone. Is that a reliable metric in that sample? I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking for your help in interpreting it. His hard hit % went down from his bad season. Is that bad? Hard hit % is often talked about as an underlying number that suggest there is more in a player than his counting numbers would indicate. If his hard hit % went down from his bad season, that’s not a good indicator is it? But on the other hand, his soft contact % went up by a lot and I’m not sure it’s a bad thing. Just maybe he’s a more complete hitter. His curveball runs above average and changeup runs above average went from below average to well above average. Coupled with the increase in soft hit %, maybe that means he was staying on offspeed stuff longer and keeping his bat in the zone longer. Plunking down and away offspeed stuff into left field. That would boost his batting average. If that is an approach change that he can continue, then maybe he is an everyday 1B. I’m not advocating for not having him on the team, just that he shouldn’t stand in the way of adding good players.
Say they did move Tellez in a package for pitching because they make the decision now that they don’t want a full time DH and another team sees some value in Tellez. Then Vlad shows he’s a full time option at 3B. How hard would it be to replace Tellez? Mitch Moreland had a $3m option declined after a similar ’20 season as Tellez. 1B only types have to have elite bats to have a lot of value.
Bichette starts his career on a historic XBH pace.
No comparison.
Dive a little deeper into Rowdy Tellez before dismissing him.
His 2019 started out a little rough, got worse, then he was sent down, mashed AAA, came back up and hit pretty well.
This carried over into 2020.
When Bichette and Teoscar both went down, it was Tellez that stepped up to carry the team. Then he got hurt as well.
Tellez is a couple months behind Teoscar’s progress at the plate. That last time sent down was a kick in the pants for those 2 as well as Gurriel.
Most teams have a cheap, young 1B option in the system so I don’t think Tellez has much value in a trade package. He’d get claimed if released, but return a similar crapshoot in trade. Knowing what we’ve seen with Rowdy compared to what the overall stats would say, suggests that he is capable of providing a minimum salary, full time bat to the lineup at this point in his career.
Moreland 2020 Boston was unreal, 2020 SD was poor. 2019 more likely. And Rowdy can provide that.
Nothing promised of course, look at someone like Aguilar or Hosmer.
Mainly my gut feel from watching Rowdy progress is that he truly has progressed.
Even with no fat in him, Vlad jr can’t play 3B in the big leagues.
You love to see it
i swear if he signs with them after I talked myself into predicting him to go to Boston instead…
Boston is not signing Springer or anyone else who carries a QO. They would have to give up the 4th pick of the second round of the draft to do so and the Red Sox ‘worked hard’ to get that draft position in 2020. Their goal is to rebuild their farm system while staying competitive and you can’t do that by forfeiting high draft picks and international free agency money.
this upcoming draft is going to be a carpshoot with the lack of a 2020 season. outside of the top handful its going to be rough.
What did the poor carp do to deserve to be shot lol
While I can never personally guess what Boston is going to do you made an excellent point about the draft.
It is going to be a total guess. The lack of playing will definitely increase the risk level of handing out large signing bonuses.
George should resign with the Astros and stay with Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Tucker, etc …
Still confused at why they extended Grichuk.
Lol I’m still confused that the jays wanted him from the cards
Adding Springer early in the off-season gives the Jays some flexibility in future moves. It also solidifies an already solid lineup and allows them to concentrate on pitching the rest of the offseason. I wonder if a 3 yr 75m contract with 2 option years at 20m each is a possibility?
I doubt Springer would be up for that. For one thing, I expect other clubs to make him better offers. Even if the money were the same, having those years guaranteed makes that a better deal, security-wise, but I expect more money for him, too. Second, while the Jays have a great foundation of young talent, there are other teams that might have a better chance of winning. The AL East is a bit tough already with the Yankees and Rays and I doubt the Red Sox will be down for all that long. Adding him to the Jays gives the Jays a good shot at the playoffs, but it’s no guarantee. Adding him to a team like the White Sox makes them true contenders (whether he wants to play for La Russa, of course, would factor in).
Regardless of any of this, I don’t expect him to sign until he’s gathered offers from the Mets, Red Sox (if they even give him one), and White Sox. The down year shouldn’t significantly impact his market. The Mets want to make a splash, the White Sox need him the most, and the Red Sox might want to return to relevance. Any of those teams could beat your proposed offer.
The true value of any of these free agents depends on whether or not fans are going to be able to attend these games on opening day. That’s where the money is and Nobody knows that yet. It’s a gamble.
Smart agents are signing their clients early while there is still hope that the Covid is under control by then. Not guaranteed at all
The term “former World Series MVP” only applies to the bizarro world inhabited by people in denial thinking the Astros 2017 World Series win was real or means anything.
I does mean something. They won. We all saw it. Thinking they didn’t really win requires a denial of reality. Accepting that they win merely requires an acknowledgement of reality. You can put an asterisk (which I think is dumb) or dock their playoff pay but saying they didn’t win requires delusion. They won, and I think pretending otherwise is childish and accomplishes nothing.
Well, its not childish to say that they cheated when they cheated and the hitters clearly benefitted.
I don’t deny that. (Although I’m not certain about “clearly benefitted. I think that’s debatable.)I just refuse to pretend they didn’t win, or that their cheating nullifies literally every accomplishment every player achieved.
Cheating does nullify everything; the uncertainty makes the outcomes questionable. Can you quantify what stats were accomplished with and without cheating? There are plenty of videos where bangs led to positive outcomes, maybe others where they sucked when bangs happened. The baseball season is a notorious grind. They cheated most of season in 2017. To think that they would have accomplished what they did without cheating is to be in denial. The fact that they cheated makes their so called accomplishments doubtful and moot. The outcome of the 2017 World Series is doubtful and moot. Hence, using the term World Series mvp is specious.
If you don’t think knowing what pitch is coming is helpful when someone throws 100 and 85 and back to 100, you’re an idiot
Well, making something uncertain isn’t nullification. What’s certain is who won the most games at the end of the series. What’s not certain my ability to quantify the accomplishments of others, and neither can you do so. I’m not being naive, you’re correct that cheating isn’t only clearly immoral (although we may disagree on the extent) but leads to the likely hypothesis, and perhaps even absolute fact that they wouldn’t have won without cheating. But the fact remains, they did and they did.
When you take one fork of the road there is absolutely no way to know what the other road would have been like.
Nope it means nothing. They cheated all the way until the end of 2017 and probably even through 2019. They are filthy pathetic cheaters. You have a right to root for the Astros and the rest of us have a right to call your “championship” what it is… a completely meaningless farce. Astros current ownership, front office, and team are disgusting hypocrites , wife beaters, and cheaters. Baseball fans outside Houston all hate your current team and always will hate the 2017 players. Best get used to it.
I’m a Mets fan but thanks for the advice. And I think hate is a bit strong of a word to use in this context.
Glass houses are made of glass. But you know everything, so you knew that.
Enrico, What the hell are you talking about? You’re not even a real umpire.!!! You’re Detective Frank Dreblin of Police Squad. Reggie should of killed you when he had the chance.
Yes, they won. Yes, they cheated and thus much of their accomplishment is tainted. See? You’re both right!
Yep. That’s it exactly.
I’d like the Mets to consider him but at that price and his age it’s risky
Whoever gets him will probably get 2 excellent years, 2 good ones, and 1 where he’s about average as a ballplayer. Since it’s only a 5-year deal (seems to be the consensus length target), a team entering their contention window would find that just about perfect anyway, as they’d drop him right as their window closes. For the length of the contract, I think he’s worth it, but only if a team is ready to contend next year. For any team a year or two away, it makes no sense.
That’s a very bad move for Toronto. It’s going to change the way fans look at the team. all the Astros need to stay on the Astros to finish out their careers.
Fans can look at him no different than when the Jays signed Melky Cabrera after PED suspension. Guys trying to gain an edge no matter the rule. Happens in all sports.
That would be awesome
Like when the Dodgers acquired Manny Ramirez and were more than happy to accept his home runs while blatantly violating the rules on PEDs?
That’s the kind of talk I like. Pick up a real CFer, veteran bat, who has won in the past and is still quality. I hope that they BlueJays sign Springer, but not at the expense of elite pitching.
It is a both situation, sign Springer and sign/acquire elite starting pitching too.
Springer to a 5 year deal isn’t bad. He would be playing his last year at 36 years old. He can handle RF at that age and probably still be a solid offensive player. And $25 mil… that’s not that bad. Miggy Trout, Albert are in the 30’s.
But Miggy and Pujols are amongst the worst, dumbest contracts ever… why would you use them as examples of what you SHOULD do? That’s exactly what you want to avoid… plus, very few players are viable at anything at all much past 32 or 33. Unlikely Springer provides any value at age 36.
Too expensive for that long of a contract. They don’t need a lead off batter. Pass
Get it done. 5yrs, $100-110M.
“Progressed beyond just talking”. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
lol. Nice reference. In seriousness, though, all negotiations are just talking, aren’t they? Progressing beyond that is signing a contract, which they obviously haven’t done yet.
If Toronto offers 5/125- he’ll jump on that in a 1/2 a heartbeat. No way he gets more than a 100 mil contract. All of his value comes from his ability to play center and lead off. As he ages- that value will diminish. He’s a great grab over next couple years but 5 years is way to long ! Nobody’s gonna offer that; regardless of covid.
I think you’ll be surprised, Bot. Springer will at least get a 4 year deal valued at $100M and most likely a 5th year option with a $10M buyout. So that equates to a 4/$110M guarantee. Love him or hate him, the guy is a stud and he shows no signs of slowing down. The $100M+ is definitely out there for him.
I agree with your assessment of his possible value but “shows no signs of slowing down?” Very often players don’t. They go from great to meh to bleh in only 2 or 3 seasons quite often at that age. Purely an anecdotal point I’m about to make, but for example check out the Blue Jays from the 80’s… Moseby, Upshaw, Bell, Barfield. Guys can go south in a hurry.
A lot has changed since the 80’s in terms of conditioning and medical knowledge. I don’t disagree that guys *can* go south in a hurry, but I don’t feel it happens as often or as early now, especially if the guy keeps himself in great shape.
Someone will offer 5 years, but I fully agree with you, it’s a bad long-term investment. But this is MLB, that’s just what owners/GMs do.
Id like the jays to sign kim. No guarantees with him but he wont way the jays down $$$ wise. If he pans out move biggio to center or trade to fill center. Rotation should be addressed this year and the final infield peice next year
Mix in 30-40 games as a DH per year and maybe Springer can hit well all 5 years.
Bluejays have a hard time signing top end free agents. So if they can get one of the top guys signed you go for it,whether its a need or not. Yes they need pitching but if you can get a guy like Springer you go for it. Then get pitching some other way
Springer is a beast no doubt. I just don’t see him going to the Jay’s. I think the Jay’s will end up with a cheaper option.
Springer to Jays
JTR stays on philly
Bauer to Angels
I have Springer to White Sox, JTR and Bauer going to Mets.
Mets need to get into the game here.
He good, no one would argue that. The Jays got surprisingly good production out of the OF last year though (offensively) and seem to have more glaring needs in the IF and rotation. 20-25m/yr seems like a lot to add to a relative strength.
Would anybody consider Pillar as 4th outfielder? In over 200 Abs he was .288/.336/.462. Maybe a minor league deal with an invite.
Definitely on a minor league deal… but those stats are a bit better than his career… he’s due for regression
Pillar would be a defensive upgrade to what the Jays have now and can bat okay against lefties. Cut Fisher, sign Pillar.
Pillar still probably lands a major league contract.
Any grudges from FO about any fires they had to put out due to his 2017 suspension?
I often wondered if that was the beginning of the end for Kevin.
They could’ve afforded to keep him around during arb years, but unless he’s cheap enough to provide surplus value, I don’t see the Jays looking his way again.
As much as he tried to atone and performed many good deeds in his career to outweigh his outspoken moments, I think the Jays would rather try dozens of other options first.
White Sox, White Sox, White Sox. Give him 5/125 and don’t worry that he’s not going to produce in year 5. He is absolutely the piece you need on offense/defense. Make this happen.
I agree with you. In 2025, he’ll almost certainly be overpaid, but RF is, IMO, their biggest area of need. My dream (plausible) offseason for them would be: sign Springer, Tanaka, and Hand, though, depending on the price, trading for Snell might be better than signing Tanaka.
No brad hand he’s garbage
Since 2016 when he figured it out, his ERA is 2.70 and his WHIP is 1.066. What metrics are you using to say he’s garbage?
Time to get over cheating, teams and players have cheated since the start of baseball. There is a lot of fake news out there. I would say amphetamines use increased the batting averages more than any other PED, and pine tar and gator substance are increasing the spin rate of a lot of pitchers. Trevor Bauer has documented it. The spit ball, grease ball, corked bat, and buzzer use by Altuve all are examples. Only a naive person would think that the Astros were the only ones doing it. Time to move on!
Some are saying pass on Springer. The team has said defense is a priority. Usually, that means shoring up the middle. They are okay in the other up the middle positions and Biggio and Bichette and the young catching are likely to improve. So for me CF seems to be the obvious upgradable position. Springer will age to a corner likely, but that’s okay if you think he can stay in CF for a couple of years.
For those opposed, do you see other options? Bradley? He’s going to age off the position too but doesn’t hit enough for a corner.
Trade? I like Ketel Marte as a possibility, but I don’t know if the system is strong enough for multiple impact trades and it looks like they might need to trade for the pitching help they need. Any other CF trade targets?
What about internal options? Sign Kim, LeMahieu, Wong or one of the decent SS and then Biggio moves to CF? This one will get me in trouble, but Teoscar? By the metrics, he’s better in CF than RF and actually better than Grichuk in CF, though the advanced metrics aren’t a full picture in small samples. He’s made improvements in his outfield defense, but his mistakes are so glaring it overshadows that progress.
Bradley wouldn’t be around by the time he has aged off the position is probable?
1 or 2 year deal is a larger part of his appeal to me.
A few standout CF that may be priced higher than their teams want to commit: Kiermaier, Buxton, LCain.
I’m not in support but I think we might see our next Colby Grichuk from the Cards if the trade path is pursued. Carlson probably steals a job from Hader or O’Neill. Fowler kinda handcuffs them.
Buy low- Oscar Mercado maybe? Nick Senzel?
Rather see Jonathan Davis get a chance but some intriguing potential exists.
CF seems less urgent when you look around the league. Similar to C. Not a lot of players that bring the glove and the bat. Springer makes that immediate difference for sure.
Internal options, I’d rather see Lourdes in CF than Teoscar.
He may be worse, but I’d enjoy seeing it for a bit.
Wish he could get more space to roam like when Pillar got shifted after some electric plays in LF.
Biggio seems like he’d have better success than the rest of the current options.
Fast track Martin as a CF and use Grichuk/Davis for 2/3 of a season would be acceptable as well.
Nice suggestions Filthy. Buxton is interesting. Twins have young outfielders ready or close it seems. Great glove and provides offensive value despite not getting on base a lot. Not overly pricey. Is there more there? He seems kind of like a more defensively capable Grichuk type. Senzel is another interesting idea as an upside play. Can he still play the infield too.? That’s a nice bench piece if he can play CF and 2B/SS. Then if he starts to realize some of the potential he’s been thought to have, you’ve struck gold. The reason I like Marte is because he’s a good defender in CF and 2B and could probably act as a backup SS too. It gives you so many options for lineup configuration. If you think Senzel could turn into that, it’s worth exploring.
The thing with Buxton is that he is fragile.
When healthy, he can do it all. It has been just been so rare.
Best glove you’ll find in CF when he’s available.
Reckless though. Like a fast Pillar. (Crashing into walls so often either takes you out of the lineup or hampers your abilities while you stay in the lineup for a couple days.)
Had a stretch of 7HR in 31 AB this Sept, so I really don’t think the Twins would move him unless they really start slow.
If the Rays get a haul for Kiermaier, the Twins may consider shopping Buxton? Or if he gets banged up again, but then would we really want to see the Jays trade for him?
Ketel is interesting to me as well. His contract is nice so he wouldn’t be very cheap.
Senzel is still pre-arb with options, so also wouldn’t be very cheap. A rough short season doesn’t cancel out his pedigree or his rookie showing. The Reds would probably try to throw in a prospect to flip Shogo into the deal instead hahah.
Maybe just pay up for Laureano? Take Khris Davis with him to get the A’s listening?
Maybe Votto/Senzel for Rowdy/Grichuk. Reds might do it. Votto veto?
You make some great points about taking on some money in trade. If free agents won’t take the Jays’ money, why not take on some money to facilitate a trade for a controllable piece.
Springer will wait to see what the Mets offer. Cohen has turned the team into a desirable landing place.
He’ll also probably get an offer from the White Sox and maybe from the Red Sox. I don’t expect the Red Sox to be down long and the White Sox have shown they’re very close to being legitimate WS contenders. A lot of people are expecting Springer to the Mets, but I’m guessing they get Bauer and JTR, then fall short on Springer. Bigger need for those two for one thing, but also the top competition for JTR’s services seems to be the Phillies and I’d bet they’re keen to get him away from a division rival.
He’s 31 I’m not giving him 5 years. 3/60 take it or leave it.
He’d leave it because other teams will give him at least 4 years, probably 5, and at a higher AAV.
I think George proved he doesn’t need someone playing the drums on a trash can.
I’d still rather see them sign Trevor Bauer to have an excellent 1-2 combination in the rotation. With any luck Nate will be a great number 3.
Hopefully Randal continues to see the value of hitting to all fields.