Count the White Sox and Dodgers among the suitors for closer Brad Hand, per MLB Insider Jon Heyman (Twitter links). Along with the Blue Jays and Mets, Hand now has a decent cadre of clubs interested in his services.
The price point for Hand’s eventual contract figures to be of unique interest after all 30 clubs surprisingly passed on claiming his one-year, $10MM option. As MLBTR’s Connor Byrne wrote just yesterday, “…the 30-year-old is a three-time All-Star who remained one of baseball’s most effective relievers a season ago. While Hand’s average fastball did drop from 92.7 mph to 91.4, he still recorded a 2.05 ERA with a 33.7 percent strikeout rate and a 4.7 percent walk rate over 22 innings. Hand also converted all 16 of his save opportunities.”
The White Sox make for a natural suitor as they continue to wrench open their window of contention. They know Hand well from his time in their division, and incumbent closer Alex Colomé is also a free agent. Tony La Russa’s club is well-stocked in southpaws with fast-rising rookie Garrett Crochet coming off a very impressive initial Major League showing, as well as Aaron Bummer, who might be the premier wormkiller in the game. Jace Fry has also been a productive southpaw for the ChiSox with a 4.07 FIP, 29.6 percent strikeout rate, 13.7 percent walk rate, and 51.2 percent groundball rate over the past three seasons. To add Hand to that group may seem gluttonous, but slotting him in as the closer would allow Chicago to continue to use Fry and Bummer situationally while protecting Crochet’s usage.
The Dodgers have secured quite a bit of help in their bullpen recently with the signing of Tommy Kahnle and the re-signing of Blake Treinen. Of course, Kahnle is unlikely to pitch much – if at all – in 2021, and Treinen was part of the group last year. Besides, if there’s a question mark for the champs heading into the 2021 season, it centers on the longevity of incumbent closer Kenley Jansen. Hand would give the Dodgers a plethora of options in yet another facet of the ballgame.
I’d prefer the White Sox got Hendriks, even with the add’l cost, but I’d prefer Hand over Colome. Just so long as they get one of the three.
I’m inclined to agree, if only because Hendriks is right-handed and they already have Bummer, Crochet, and Fry.
Crochet will be a MiLB starter next year
I disagree. I think they let him work out of the pen like they did with Sale and bring him up to starter status late next year or early 2022. If he has another injury scare, hopefully, they’ll be smart and make him a BP arm.
At a minimum, service time manipulation is likely to lead to Crochet starting in the minors for at least a few weeks. What happens then is an open question, probably dependent as much on Crochet’s performance as on how the Sox (especially their bullpen) is doing without him.
@Oddvark
I’m not sure that service time manipulation would affect Crochet unless he stayed in MiLB into late May/early June. I suppose that’s possible, but that would borderline on blatant manipulation, and after the Bryant fiasco, I think teams might be a bit cautious about being that obvious.
Of course, Hahn was pretty blatant about Madrigal’s manipulation (at least I thought he was) and nothing’s come of it so far, so what do I know.
According to Cot’s website, he’s at 28 days of service.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say he breaks camp with the team. He was great last year, albeit in limited innings, so if the Sox think he can bolster their pen early on, I think he’ll head right to MLB. As for service time, they did that with Madrigal, but he’s more highly rated for one thing and the Sox don’t often do that. They brought up Dunning, Cease, and Kopech mid- to late-season and signed several others to extensions. Keeping him down might be the smartest thing to do, but I’m not convinced they will.
@Brixton
You couldn’t be more wrong. Garrett Crochet will continue on his ‘Chris Sale’ path with the White Sox meaning he will be a late inning bullpen force in 2021 before transitioning to their rotation in 2022. The only factors interrupting this plan would be a health issue or a poor showing in spring camp.
@hyraxwithaflamethrower
I agree, I think Crochet breaks with the team. If the Sox weren’t quite there yet, I could see them keeping him down. But since their eyes are on the prize (not saying they are WS favorites by any means), I see him up OD.
That’s why I see Vaughn up pretty quickly (early May, assuming an extension isn’t done him this Winter, a la Eloy/Robert), unless they think he’s not even close yet. And from what’s whispered, it sounds like he’s not that far away. Yes, I know, you have to take the whispers with a grain of salt, so we’ll have to wait and see.
Crochet has had exactly 0 innings in the minors, and a grand total of 6.2 innings of professional baseball experience. This is nowhere close to the Kris Bryant situation where he had proven himself for two years in the minors.
Starting Crochet in the minors makes perfect sense. Will there be any other players drafted in 2020 who won’t start 2021 in the minors? Did Crochet’s 6 innings pitched really prove that he is completely ready for extended major league action and couldn’t use more development?
@Oddvark
It’s very possible he may end up needing development in MiLB. But unless he’s horrible is ST, I’d rather have him up OD and see if he can keep the momentum going, that he can feed off his success. Worst thing is he gets a dose of reality, then they send him down so he can make the adjustments.
Not saying his and Bryant’s situations are the same, but teams are still going to be cautious regarding the time manipulation because they don’t want to be the next team to get zapped.
I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong about Crochet. That’s just the approach I would take.
But very valid points on your part.
What about Tubbs?
Breaking news! There’s 30 teams that are “INTERESTED in” Brad Hand. However, only one of them will sign him & it’s anybody’s guess which team that will be at this time. Also, as a footnote, no clue when an announcement will be made but it could be “as early as today”.
Shhh, the site will hear you discrediting it’s validity
@83sox94win05
I agree that there are merits to having Crochet on the opening day roster, and I completely understand why people want to see him firing 100MPH+ pitches as soon as possible. I want to see that, too.
I’m not even necessarily saying that I would start him in the minors, just that it is a viable course of action that the Sox might take. Thanks for your note about him having already gotten 28 days of service time in 2020. That makes me a bit less confident that they will do so (I was looking at his measly 6 IP and thinking that wouldn’t count for much), but I still suspect that they will, especially if they sign a closer and don’t have any injuries on the pitching staff heading into the season, making him more of a luxury than a need on the MLB roster.
Also, Bryant lost his case. That should make the Sox and other teams even less worried about getting “zapped”. Arguably, they might want to abuse the system less leading into the CBA negotiations, but I don’t think there is any real fear under the current rules/contract that a team will lose a grievance based on service time manipulation.
Its not blatant if the staff pitches well thru June.
@stymeedone
Actually, good point. Nicely done.
I still think he’s up OD, but that’s just my prediction. And even if he’s not up OD, I think there will be a weak spot in the pitching staff to where he’s a huge upgrade over and he needs to replace that player, but the Sox have that card you mentioned in their back pocket if they need to play it.
Remember the goofy rule about the extra year of control. It’s a point in time evaluation of a specified percentage of players in the same year. The lowest 21% get an extra year for the owning club. With what he has so far he runs a risk of not being eligible for the extra year of control if he comes up before mid May! Even that is risky. June 1 or July 1 would better assure the extra year.
What about Danks?
People called Vladdy Jr staying in the minors “manipulation” but he came up and was very mediocre and clearly needed seasoning. It doesn’t hurt to take it slow with your top talent.
i think the whole service time thing needs to be reevaluated especially now that teams aren’t really signing players 30+ to long term deals. i feel there are to many teams now messing with players clocks and taking money away from them. the whole “seasoning” reasoning is bs either your ready for the show or your not.
Vlad also got hurt in 2019 near the end of Spring Training and that put to rest the manipulation part.
Vlad Jr murdered the international league. he wasn’t going to get better playing in AAA and was always going to need to adjust to the MLB at some point.
It’s really hard to say if Vladdy Jr. needed more seasoning or simply had more pressure on him to perform off the charts than any prospect since Bryce Harper broke in. Being Vlad’s son is pressure, being the #1 prospect and the closest thing to a guaranteed star is tons of pressure beyond the name. Guys like Acuna and Soto hit the ground running so I don’t believe there is a single one size fits all approach to when an elite prospect is ready to move up..
For some reason, I thought Hand’s numbers were worse than they were. Maybe it was the drop in velocity that led to my mistaken belief.
Assuming they can strike a affordable deal with him, maybe $7MM/yr or $8MM/yr, I wouldn’t mind chasing him instead of Hendriks. I’m not going to whine at all if the Sox sign Hendriks, but I’m not expecting the same numbers pitching at GR as opposed to Oakland. Hendriks should be fine in GR, but not nearly as dominant. Of course, according to the advanced metrics, Colome should’ve been lit up every night at GR the last 2 seasons and he did fine. So much for advanced metrics (in this case anyway).
Whatever they do, outside of some monster surprise deal for a TOR, finish up the bullpen and head to ST (which P’s and C’s report in about 6 weeks, at least so far).
The Sox have been reported as interested in Hendriks, Hand, and Colome. I don’t think I’ve heard any reports about their interest in Rosenthal, but he’s the one I hope they sign. Just so long as they get one of the four.
@Oddvark
Definitely agree. Bummer might end up being a great closer, but I’d rather have an established closer (like the 4 you mentioned) from the start of the season and see how it plays out.
i think rosey would be a good fit with the cws tlr knows him well and would use in positions to succeed and he has seemed to bounce back nicely after tj.
Mets should have tried to sign him sooner. Too many teams involved now will drive up his price. Probably gets 3 years now.
Agreed. The waiver claim would have been the smart move…
I was shocked when he passed through waivers. If I were the owner of a contending team, I’d have jumped on that opportunity.
I think that at the time a lot of teams were thrown by the fact that Cleveland put him on waivers to begin with and were scared that something was wrong and didn’t want to make a $10M mistake without doing more due diligence.
@Oddvark
That’s probably more of what led to my mistaken belief that Hand’s numbers were worse than they actually were last year.
Mets have the luxury of not needing him at all. Their pen is solid, especially with the addition of May.
Do the Mets really need him? I would say he is a luxury though a fine one to have. Also, no team claimed Hand. Not Washington or Philidelphia who have worse bullpen outfits.
idk why i had him going to the rockies
I thought he might be going back to the Padres, but now I think they are going to resign Yates or Trevor Rosenthal.
or both
Rockies would be a longshot, unless they fool themselves into thinking they can contend. If they do that, though, they’re smoking more grass than is in their OF.
The waiver claim seemed to be the way to go. I wonder if he will get a contract guarantee of more than the $10mil that would have cost?
I doubt the AAV will exceed $10M, but they total guarantee, I expect it to be well over that. I’m thinking 2-yr deal with a 3rd-yr team option. Overall, maybe 2/18 with the third year at another 8-9.
If you’re willing to give him a $9m AAV over 2 or 3 years there is zero reason not to claim his 1/$10m when you have the chance.
Teams make mistakes. Also, at that time, there was less certainty about when a vaccine would be available, meaning less certainty about when fans would be allowed back. We don’t know for sure when that will happen yet, but it seems more likely now than 2 months ago that fans will be allowed back at some point, justifying higher expenses.
Nope. Should have claimed him. Cut and dried.
Not arguing they should have. Any contender should have unless they’re right up against the CBT. But they didn’t, and I believe it’s for the reasons I outlined. Guess we’ll find out in a few days/weeks what his contract actually is.
This happened a couple of times. Just a guess here, but unless you thought you could certainly sign him for $8M/1, then it is not worth waiting. Even at $9M/1, you really only saved $1M, against the risk of missing him completely.
Those reasons will be just as valid in the coming weeks, if not MORE!
Lol
Is kenley at all tradeable? What if dodgers sign hand and somehow trade kenley to clear cap space?
I think the Dodgers will let him ride his contract out to see if he rebounds and/or pay their respects for his years of solid service
If he lays on the ground you can trace around him with chalk. But no he is not tradable.
I see what you did there!
Make it happen Friedman
So what team wants the Hand job?
We have a seat at the table!
Sox could sign Hand and Colome. Colome has been too consistently good to let walk. Hand’s knowledge and experience would surely be of benefit to Bummer, Crochet, and Fry. Those two paired with Bummer, Crochet, and Fry will rival any late inning bullpen group.
Personally I don’t see Hand & Colome going to the same team. A bit redundant.
You could say that again.
It’s not likely but would be a big boost for the bullpen.
@Bill M
Not really. If you can get them both at the right price, why not? Isn’t that what the Yankees were doing the last few years to their pen, gobbling up guys that could potentially close, turning them into strong table-setters for Chapman?
Granted, what the Yankees have been doing is on a much grander scale than the Sox (or any other team) signing Hand and Colome, but the general principle is the same.
I totally agree with your statement.
Signed,
Department of redundancy department
As an Indians fan I want it to be the Dodgers. Not because I hate the White Sox, no because I want the Dodgers to sign everyone of note and be true heels. Sign Springer, sign Hand, sign Realmuto to split time, trade for Lindor and move him to 3B. I hope the next 20 titles go to the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and maybe the Mets. So maybe the small market teams will demand that they be given equal revenue sharing so that they aren’t forced to lose their best players to free agency every time.
Never gonna happen. Besides, a lot of these teams have at least partial ownership of a local channel, and that revenue doesn’t count as baseball revenue. I could do with a little more revenue sharing, but then you’d have to institute a salary floor. There’s no reason for teams like the Cubs and Yankees to be forced to give money to Pirates and Orioles teams who want to get by with as small of payrolls as they can. Maybe tie revenue sharing to salary as some percentage or have adjustments for overall W-L records over the past 5 years or something. That way teams that aren’t trying get less money than teams like the A’s who consistently are.
You know there is already revenue sharing in the MLB right? Where basically* the smaller market teams get money from the largest market teams and in normal times turn a profit before a single game is even played. Also Paul Dolan and the owners of the indians have one of the highest net worths out of all MLB owners. Below is the top richest mlb owners as of sometime in November. If the Dolans want to pay for more expensive players they are better positioned to do so than almost every other ownership group. Obviously they figured out that paying to put the best team on the field doesn’t necessarily corelate to making the most profit in their market. Or maybe the top players just don’t prefer to play in a horrible little place like Cleveland.
Steve Cohen (Mets): 14.6 Billion
Rogers Communications, Rogers Family (Blue Jays): $8.75 billion
Liberty Media Corporation, John Malone (Braves): $6.6 billion
Paul Dolan and Family (Indians): $4.6 Billion
Ted Lerner and Family (Nationals): $4.5 Billion
Charlie Johnson (Giants): $4.3 Billion
Rogers Communications, as of yesterday, was valued at around $19.2 billion in Canadian dollars. That equals over $15-billion US.
exactly. regardless of the rankings none these owners are poor by any stretch of the imagination
would love for the sox to sign him, but if they’re bidding against the dodgers it seems like another case where the sox will only be “in the mix”
Dodgers not in
Dodgers seem to have addressed their BP already. Not that Hand wouldn’t be an upgrade, but doesn’t make sense to have signed Treinen and Kahnle if Hand was the real target.
Kahnle had Tommy John surgery in August of 2020 won’t play until 2022.
This is posturing from the white sox
No, or at least I hope not. They need a closer now that Colome is a free agent. Could be that they get Hendriks or Colome instead, but I believe the interest in Hand is legit.
Mix of posturing and legit. It is easy to imagine Hahn has a strong 3yr offer to Hendricks, but tired of getting squeezed/slow played. He’ll pivot to locking up either Colome or Hand for less if out of patience. He won’t want to see those guys off the market and give Hendricks even more negotiating leverage.
The Phillies bullpen could really use a Hand
I’m really curious to see what Hand ends up with and if teams consider him a closer. His average FB velocity has dropped from 93.6 in 2018 to 91.4 in 2020. In 2019 he dealt with arm fatigue and the Indians have seemed fairly cautious on how they have used him on consecutive days ever since. He had a great 2020 season but he had a low BABIP and gave up 0 HR, despite being an extreme flyball pitcher.. doesn’t seem like that is repeatable over a full season.
I completely understand why teams are interested in him but there are a few red flags that would make me a reluctant to pursue him too hard. No doubt he put up solid numbers in 2020 and has that closer mindset though.
All three of the top closers have their red flags. Colome’s secondary numbers aren’t as good as his microscopic ERA over the past two years and, aside from 2015, Hendriks was meh before 2019. Closers are generally unreliable. Guys like Rivera and Hoffman are the exception, not the rule.
Dodgers already have the best pen in the sport. Hand would put them on another level.
If rumor is true, Dodgers must really be nervous about Jansen
Nervous? Jansen is done closing games whether he likes it or not. The only reason he is still wearing a Dodgers uniform if they came back to win the World Series after his game 4 disaster.
That makes zero sense.
How many World Series can a guy blow before you stop relying on him? That would have been 3 for Jansen if the team didn’t bail him out.
Adding him to the Dodgers bullpen would be ridiculous. Jansen, Treinan, Bustardo, Hand. Good luck coming back.
The fact that you didn’t even list any of their good relievers. Not sure if to laugh or shake my head. Maybe if you would’ve said Victor Gonzalez, Brusdar Graterol, Julio Urias, and Jansen lol.
Really stupid not to just make that waiver claim.
No it isn’t.
@CalcetinesBlancos
I agree. It would be different if they could steal him in the F/A market for $5MM, but that’s definitely not happening now.
The White Sox should prioritize Liam Hendriks. He is unquestionably the top closer in this FA class and arguably the best closer in MLB since becoming one in 2019. The White Sox have an abundance of quality left-handed arms available for late inning duty in their bullpen. Adding an elite right-handed one in Hendriks to finish off games is a no-brainer.
@Aaron Sapoznik
As I said way above, my concern with Hendriks is how is he going to fare moving from Oakland to GR. I don’t see the same numbers, though that doesn’t mean he won’t still be a good/great closer.
Hopefully my fears about him will be unfounded if the Sox do end up signing Hendriks.
Nevertheless, strengthening the pen should be their priority (at least adding to the roster). The #1 priority (for me, anyway) is extending Giolito. Madrigal would also be nice to extend, and I would have no problem whatsoever if they also extended Vaughn (a la Eloy/Robert). Once they strengthen the pen and make the extension(s), head to ST. At least that’s the way I would go about it.
Aside from his other mind-blowing metrics, Liam Hendriks has done a solid job of keeping the ball in the yard. That might be a little easier in Oakland but Hendriks does a much better job of limiting HR’s than Josh Hader (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/haderjo01.shtml) who has been the poster child for dominating numbers out of the pen since debuting with the Brewers in 2017.
I urge commenters to compare Hendriks numbers with those of Hader since 2017 and pay particular attention to the difference in their HR/9 metric. Hendriks has been even more impressive since assmuming closer duties with the A’s in 2019.
@Aaron Sapoznik
Though I may have some concerns about Hendriks if he comes to the South Side, by no means will I be disappointed in Hahn if he signs with the Sox.
I’m a little uneasy about a 4-year deal given his age, because generally when a reliever falls, he falls hard. Unfortunately closers don’t come with expiration dates, so he may fall apart in year 2 or 3 of the deal, or he may be just as dominant after year 4 as he was the last couple seasons.
That being said, if Hendriks is Hahn’s pick, I’ll embrace it despite any concerns I may have. Same would go with Hand, Colome, and Rosenthal also, though I would obviously be more excited catching the big fish in Hendriks.
Liam Hendriks asking for 4 years, according to the Dodgers rumors mill. Dodgers offered 3-year deal.
Hope the Dodgers can sign him
Of Course the Dodgers want him. They are what the Yankees used to be all in on everyone. Cashman needs to go. Why is he still a GM. Yankees on a Budget. LMAO!!!!!!
Cashman doesn’t control the budget. And it’s really important for a NYY fan to note that Hal makes ALL of his (non-investment) income from the Yankees. Unlike Cohen, or even George, Hal has no other business filling his pockets. So last year had an impact on him that it did not have on most other owners. And of course there is the CBT. Who knows if Hal would be worried so much about the CBT if he’d had another hugely profitable year in 2020?
By my count, the Dodgers now have 10 legitimate bullpen pieces. Jansen, Treinen, Graterol, Kolarek, Alexander, V. Gonzalez, Kelly, Floro, Knebel, and Tony G all for bullpen. That is pretty deep considering they have Brandon Morrow and Jimmy Nelson on minor league contracts. Some tough decisions will need to be made.
Well there is no question that Hendriks is the elite closer right now. The interest in Colome and or Hand is probably all related to the price and years that Hendriks wants. CWS are just doing due diligence knowing the potential fall back plan is a Crochet/Kopech being groomed as 2 inning closers.
Everyone should be in contact with Hands agent if it’s for less than 10m a year. His drop in velocity to me isn’t all that concerning given he was only throwing 92mph the year prior. He’s not that kind of pitcher
I’d like the Dodgers to take a flyer on Archie Bradley if they can get him at a reasonable price like 2-yrs, 8 million.. He is the type of guy the Dodger like, that throws heat in upper 90’s and just needs staff to fine tune his command and secondary pitches. I also really would like to see the Dodgers to leave the Closer Spot open to whomever pitches the best during Spring Training and based on situation as they had during the end of the season.
@ LA Ballez
Bradley won’t be going for 2/8MM when Treinan just signed for 2/18MM.
I came here to make a Hand….. Job
Joke but the mlbtraderumors wont allow it
The pitcher Hands would be the last pitcher I would want to close. Any of the other closers have fewer red flags. Most good teams need 2 closers , if you win 100 + games you will need a closer in 75=80 in the regular season. Then the postseason is more usage look at Atlanta and Tampa Bay they were said to have good bullpens but both got creamed in the playoff and world series.
I think he signs with the Angel’s, it’s a good fit for him. The Angel’s are trying to rebuild the pen. They are weak on left handed arms (although they recently added claudio) so I think it’s a good fit for both teams.
The Sox should bring Colome back AND sign Hendriks. A deep bullpen is a necessity for any would-be contender these days.
I heard that the Blue Jays may be interested in signing him as well. Ha. Haha. Ha…
I’ll show myself out.
I don’t think spending big money on a reliever is the way to go. This team already has some really good young arms to fill out a quality bullpen. They already have an excellent lineup as well. I’d rather see them lock up Giolito. Cease and Kopech are the biggest wildcards as it stands right now. If those 2 are productive this year this team is gonna win a lot of games. If one or both don’t pan out they should keep some salary free for next year to land a top starter.
Talk to the Hand