Prior to the trade deadline, the Marlins were looking for outfield help, and explored what would have been a pair of major deals. Barry Jackson and Craig Mish of The Miami Herald report that the Marlins checked in with the Pirates about All-Star center fielder Bryan Reynolds, and also discussed a fascinating deal with the Angels that would have seen Miami acquire outfielder Brandon Marsh in exchange for Max Meyer, the third overall pick of the 2020 draft.
It’s probably safe to assume that almost every team in baseball at least asked the Pirates about Reynolds, who has delivered great results in two of his three MLB seasons. Reynolds has rebounded from a sophomore slump to hit .309/.388/.525 with 18 homers over 425 plate appearances this season, with an .385 xwOBA that ranks among the league’s best.
Reynolds turns 27 in January and is controlled through the 2025 season, making him one of the few assets that the rebuilding Pirates weren’t looking to move in general, and certainly not for anything short of a huge return. “Pittsburgh wanted more than the Marlins were willing to consider,” Jackson/Mish write, so talks ultimately didn’t pan out.
As for the negotiations with the Angels, other players may have been involved in the proposed deal, so it wouldn’t have been only a straight Marsh-for-Meyer swap. Such major trades of top prospects are rare, though this particular move would have addressed needs for both clubs. It isn’t any secret that the Angels are looking to add young arms, as evidenced by their two deadline day trades that netted five minor league pitchers, or their 20-player draft class consisting of nothing but hurlers.
Meyer might already be pretty close to the majors, after throwing three years of college ball and making his pro debut this year at Double-A. The right-hander has a 1.93 ERA over 70 innings for Double-A Pensacola and ranks 38th on Baseball America’s midseason top 100 prospects list.
As impressive as Meyer has been, he is only one of several impressive pitchers at both the MLB and minor league levels of Miami’s organization. With this surplus in mind, Jackson/Mish write that the Marlins are looking to deal a pitcher for “a front-line offensive prospect” like Marsh, who made his Major League debut earlier this month.
Marsh had an even higher placement on BA’s midseason list, ranking as the 26th-best prospect in all of baseball. His first taste of Triple-A ball was limited to 24 games due to shoulder inflammation, but he hit well over that limited playing time and earned his first look at the MLB level. Seen as a center fielder of the future, Marsh would be a natural replacement for Starling Marte up the middle in Miami, and the Angels might be willing to move such a player for premium pitching talent since L.A. has another big outfield prospect in Jo Adell.
Between Marte, Adam Duvall, and Corey Dickerson, the Marlins have traded three veteran outfielders in a little over a month’s time, making the position a target area for the offseason. Jesus Sanchez and the newly-acquired Bryan De La Cruz will be in the mix as potential starters, though Jackson/Mish write that Lewis Brinson and Monte Harrison aren’t seen as long-term options. For Harrison, “his future with the organization is uncertain” after an internal matter that reportedly involved Harrison having to be restrained after an argument with Marte.
Come on, Miami. You couldn’t have coughed up some young pitching for Reynolds?
According to Jon Heyman, the Pirates asked for the Marlins’ top 3 prospects (twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1421524898225266691). Those being Max Meyer, Sixto Sanchez, and Edward Cabrera per FanGraphs. Top 3 per MLB Pipeline were Sanchez, JJ Bleday, and Meyer. Rarely do you ever see a team give up their top, high end prospect, let alone all three and all three ranking as top 50 prospects, or in the case of MLB Pipeline, all three being top 20 prospects. So it seems the Pirates weren’t willing to trade Reynolds for nothing less than a once-in-a-life-time offer, or massive, massive, massive overpay.
Reynolds isn’t anywhere near as good a fit as Marsh is, timeline-wise, and Meyer-Marsh should have happened if the Angels GM had any kind of a clue about building a team when you already have the 2 best players.
Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus both ranked Marsh a better prospect and since Marsh isn’t a pitcher, he’s a safer prospect.
I’d rather have a CF.
Using the Trade Simulator app, the following produces a slight Pirates overpayment for the Marlins players:
Marlins Get
Reynolds
Stallings (the Marlins asked about him as well)
The Pirates Get
Meyer
Bleday
Cabrera
Eder
As I said, the Simulator considers this trade to be an overpayment by the Pirates. I can understand the Marlins reluctance to make a trade of this magnitude. But what did they expect to pay for these players? I would have removed one of Eder and Cabrera as well as Bleday had the Marlins traded Watson as a PTBNL.
Im glad Marlins did not pull the tigger on sending 4 top 100 prospects for Reynolds and Stallings.
I’m glad the Pirates did not trade a budding superstar and the player with the most walk offs in the last five years for prospects,because that is all they are until and if they become good ML players.
I don’t think a slight overpay would have been enough. I think the Pirates had no interest in moving Reynolds for anything less than a significant overpay.
I’m all about fair trades but you really should expect to overpay to pry away someone a team isn’t really interested in trading.
Besides, Pirates don’t need to do such deals given how healthy the minors pipeline is now.
Actually, the Pirates would have overpaid for the Marlins prospects. Whether this trade makes sense for the Pirates depends on where they are in the rebuild process. Reyonlds might be at the end of his peak and arbitration years when the Pirates become contenders. If that’s the case, then trading Reyonlds for the trade presented above makes sense for them. The Marlins, on the other hand, made the playoffs in 2020 but do not appear to be on the cusp of their window opening. But the Marlins are closer than the Pirates. So, acquiring Reyonlds makes sense for the Marlins but only if the team greatly underpays for Reyonlds. The Marlins need those players very much and trading them for a player like Reynolds would be counterproductive.
Reynolds is Arb Eligible after this season and therefore is too expensive for the Marlins.
Seems like the Marlins think their window is within the next three seasons if they’re asking for him but that Pirates’ ask is way too high.
The Pirates ask meant they would not trade Reynolds.Period.He is much too good and the face of the franchise.
Then they should’ve stated so and not waste anyone’s time. Cherington isn’t an idiot.
How do you know that the Marlins did not initiate it?The Pirates certainly aren’t shopping him.BC just gave them a quick reply knowing what the result would be.Just a few minutes is not much of a waste of time.
Could also be b/c everyone knows the Marlins get run over in every single trade they make, and could actually say yes. It would make sense, considering Jeter said they got more calls about their farm system than ever, and that it was a significant amount of people calling them
BC statedReynolds and Hayes would not be traded. They are the face of the franchise. Some gms will make a statement like that until you make an offer they can’t refuse.
King-I think that you risk your integrity if you did trade either one.Pirate fans would be furious.Look at what the Marlins got,or did not get,for Yelich.
These prospects do not do you any good until they become good ML players which is often not the case.
BC did not have any choice but to do what he is doing.NH did.They used to get ML ready players in trades,and other than the Archer trade,were fairly good at it.These rebuilds take years,and their is no guarantee that it is going to work to make the playoffs let alone get a WS win..
Someone brought up the potential marsh/Meyer swap earlier and he got hate for it for some reason
Brinson for Reynolds take it or leave it
Leave it.
Take it.
Take it quick if you are the Marlins. Leave it as soon as you are don laughing if you are the Bucs.
By the time the MLBTR article was posted stating the Dodgers were going to not only get Max, but Trea as well – after reading a gazillion posts about how brilliant AJ Peller was in getting just Max – I’d already felt like I’d eaten far too much fudge.
From there it was as if people were prying my mouth open and forcing more fudge down….fudge made with far too much butter and sugar. I had a day to drink 7 gallons of Alka Seltzer to wash down 3 boxes of Pepcid, and now it’s starting again! Yikes!!!!
Hopefully this will pass and I can look forward to a steady diet of daily injury updates.
I will lose my mind if the Marlins trade Meyer. Dudes basically already MLB ready when he was drafted. Yes I know we have many young pitchers and can spare a few but neither of these guys will be what it takes to push ours into the competitive atmosphere we are trying to get to. Would’ve been nice to add either KG25Baseball2 them but it’s too early to ditch your round one third overall prospect from one year ago
Marsh is a better fit, and its the exact same level of talent/ceilings. Don’t get precious with prospects, its not worth it. Fit is the best move here if the talent is the same.
Love the Meyer/Marsh challenge trade idea, Kim Ng is already looking like the best GM choice. That’s a trade that helps both teams equally and Angels are cowards for saying no, the fact that their FO hates pitching so much that they will continue to pee away the entire careers of two of the greatest talents we have ever seen, just refusing to budge at all. Straight up negligent ownership.
Where does it say which team said no?
In Craig Mish’s report (which he did several the easiest one to find is on the Miami Herald) he says the Angels backed out.
Got it. Thank you. Would be great to see more prospect for prospect trades.
It would be so much simpler if they would just relocate from the sea to the swamp already.
The Everglades Athletics! I like it.
Incorrect. We’re talking about the New Orleans Gators (formerly known as the Miami Marlins).
New Orleans couldn’t keep the Zephyrs going, why do you think it would be different with a MLB club?
Miami doesn’t draw fans. Why do you think New Orleans would be any worse?
We get it; you dont understand how agreements work where a team is locked into not moving for another 25 years…does it have to be something we revisit every time the Marlins are mentioned?
The Marlins staying in Miami for another 25 years is not good for the sport. The two Florida teams do not draw fans. There are tons of cities that are more deserving. New Orleans may not be near the top of the list but I guarantee it would get more fan support than Miami or Tampa Bay.
All of these cities are more deserving than any Florida city…
Charlotte
Nashville
Buffalo
Indianapolis
Memphis
Raleigh
Columbus
Louisville
Las Vegas
Portland
Vancouver
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
Austin
New Orleans
Sacramento
Mexico City
Monterrey
Again…they are literally contractually obligated. How hard is it to understand?
Contracts are broken all the time. Miami is not a baseball city. There were Marlins “fans” who did not even want to make the playoffs because they were more concerned with not ruining their “perfect postseason record” than with having a consistently competitive franchise. They would make more money somewhere else and they could pay off the city of Miami to get themselves in a better situation. It’s an absolute joke when I’m watching the Braves play the Marlins down in Miami and the attendance is announced at 7,000.
There is also one other thing that you’re completely ignoring. They could simply fold as a franchise. Then an expansion franchise could be created somewhere else. That makes your “contractual obligation” irrelevant.
Marsh for Meyer would have been a horrific swap for Miami.
You mean vise-versa, it’s all relative. See you in 5 years when we all forgot about this. I don’t know why they do these, should of, could of, would of blogs.
I prefer to keep Marsh. The Angels should keep all their top prospects.
Bottom line, I agree with you.
There’s an issue with Marsh… where does the man who carries baseball on his shoulders play? Do you shift trout to left once Marsh is ready and Upton is gone? Adell in RF once ready (if he ever is)? Not to take a dig on trout but as he ages he won’t be able to man CF like he used to so starting to use him in left might be the move once he comes back off the IL
Yes, it’s been clear that Trout would be moved to LF in ‘22 or ‘23 in favor of Marsh or Adell, to better preserve Trout’s legs. The team has him under contract for many more years, and both sides would benefit from keeping Trout off the IL by reducing his workload.
@tstats The Angels have a hole in RF. Ideally, either Marsh or Adell will take the position starting next year. Upton will be the RF until his contract expires at the end of next year. The other prospect should be able to fill the other hole at that time. Trout will probably stay in Center when he returns. He will probably be moved to left field within the next 3 years. Trout is familiar with the process since Torii Hunter had to move to RF when Trout and Bourjos came up. Trout would also play a corner OF spot when Bourjos played.
For 2022, Except for one thing, I don’t know what the Angels will do. That one thing will be release Upton if he’s not helping the team.
For the next couple of years, I expect Trout in CF, Marsh in right and Adell in left. If the Angels go two for two with Marsh and Adell, then they will trade Adams for pitching. If they go one for two, Adams will take over CF and Trout will move to left. If they go three for three, Adell will traded.
How refreshing that there is someone who is “the face of the franchise” in Pittsburgh. Of course, with this ownership it doesn’t mean much. The idea here is to call it a rebuild, then trade away guys who really should have been part of it, only to call it a rebuild once again, albeit with new, younger faces. Dear God, why does Pittsburgh even have a team?
He definitely is the face of the Pirates. I’m a lifelong Dodger fan but I actually bought a Reynolds shirt when I flew to Pittsburgh to see the Dodgers play them.
They literally extended Andrew past his prime and Walker the last 2 faces of the franchise. Add Marte Gregory Liarino and signing Martin that was a big push for 3 years. Hayes is the new face he turned down an extension
Pittsburgh still has a team because of history and PNC Park. End of list.
I agree with your first sentence,and to some extent much of what you say.Nutting sees some of these mega contracts and how few return much Look at the Nationals and Strasburg.Sure they won their first WS,but they have money to burn.
The Pirates really only lost Frazier of any significance in the recent deals.I think the return for him was less than mediocre.They do seem to have a fairly good farm system now though.
One small market team WS winner in the last 29 years.Therein lies the fact.At this rate each will win one within the next 220 years.
Spending doesn’t equal winning. If that was the case the dodgers and Yankees would have met in the World Series every year for the last what 15 years?
I’d have to disagree. Spending does equal winning. These teams that blow over the tax line tend to win there division. That’s winning to me. Only 1 team can win it all, and It’s just not that easy to win 3 short series, against 3 good teams.but entering the playoffs, I’ll take the field against the best team or best record, every time!
The Marlins have two World Series championships in the past 29 years. The Royals have one championship in the past 29 years. There has more different teams make the WS over the past 30 years than teams that have made a SB appearance in 30 years
Fan-That may be true about football versus baseball but only one of the small market teams has won the WS.The Marlins are near the bottom of the mid market teams.The large and mid market teams have dominated.The small market teams have virtually no chance unless theiir three year window corresponds with a lack of dominant teams.
In the case of the Pirates three year window they had the second best record in the ML for that time period.The first was in their own division and they ran up against Baumgarner and Arrieta in the wild card games.
Football has been absolutely dominated by about four or five teams over the last 20 years.It is by far the better run league because every team can clearly get better the next year because of the equal salary structure.This is one of the reasons that it has d9minated as far as popularity.No team has to go through four year rebuilds just to have a chance at the playoffs..Only the poorest run teams are ending up near the bottom on any sort of consistent basis,
The Rays end of debate.
Who is the small market team you are referring to? I consider both the DBacks and the Royals small market teams.
Phoenix is a top ten media market. KC is #32.
Royals.Also,mostly central division teams.Pirates,Brewers,Reds,Indians,Twins,A’s,Rays.
DBacks are not a small market team.
Well stated and agree completely. I guess what annoys me most about the Nutting group are the contradictory statements that seek to assure long suffering fans. You’ve sent established stars away in favor of “bonafide” up and comers, and then you’ve ended up sending them away too
It’s a never-ending cycle of rebuilding that will only reach conclusion in a WC run and then start all over
From a purely business standpoint, it appears that they have perfected a strategy that provides a huge windfall within the MLB framework while providing fans the minimum and nothing more
Man every single one of those prospects from the Yelich trade turned out to be a bust. Brinson, Harrison, Diaz, and Yamamoto. 0 for 4. Of course Yelich has been replacement level or less for 2 years now and has an massively underwater long term contract, but he did have 2 MVP level seasons for 4 guys who did nothing. You just never know with prospects…Brandon Marsh could be the next Lewis Brinson for all we know
No…you could know on that one. Go back to the articles here about it and see me hard complaining about getting nothing for a Christian Yleoch at 25 years old and a bargain contract that didnt need to be traded. At the futures game in Miami the prior year, I was sitting next to Keith Law, and Brinson had a couple of hits, and I made a joke the Marlins were going to trade Yelich for him…I wish I could say I didnt believe it…
Except it was Yelich who wanted to be traded. Just like JTR
That’s what the front office told me a couple of years ago, but that shouldnt matter when you have the guy signed for 5 years
I remember the Jays were apparently the runner up for Yelich.
Rumours were that the Marlins asked for Vlad straight up but Jays balked. And the Jays offered Bichette straight up but Marlins wanted another piece.
Wow in hindsight if he had to be traded you think they would accept the Bo trade now?
Straight up would be incredibly stupid, but obviously if you know what you know now, it’s at least better than what they did getting multiple super raw low floor guys, a guy with half a good season in A ball that was never heralded, and a potential back of the rotation starter
Yeah with hindsight Bichette would have been a better choice for them. But I get it at the time.
Marlins were just starting their rebuild so getting multiple pieces with different ETAs in the majors made sense. The chances of them all busting is pretty low… but unfortunately it looks like that’s what happened.
No the chances for those guys was pretty high, but if those 2 offers are the only ones at the time…but that is just hard to believe…they’ve targeted other low floor, high ceiling types, so they obviously liked it. Maybe they watched that future’s game I was talking about lol. Brinson always struggled at every level for a 1.5-2 years before figuring it out, when he started in Texas’ system, and Monte Harrison was highly regarded in his draft as a monster athlete, but he only ever put it together for like a year, and had multiple injuries. I even said at the time I would bet on his brother in the NBA over him. Which by the way, someone please give Shaq Harrison a roster spot lol
Braves priority this off-season (if available) – Reynolds, Buxton, or Marte.
Unless another interesting name pops up, it is do or bust!
Reynolds for the Braves top 5 prospects
Marlins can take their pick of Jo Adell and or Brandon Marsh as long as they send any 2 from the list of Meyer, Edward Cabrera, Pablo López, or Rogers.
Rofl
Now that’s what I call overvaluing your prospects lmfao
The Reynolds trade didn’t happen and wasn’t going to happen so all this speculation is a waste of time. Get on with your life.
It’s for the best. Meyer is better than Marsh.
Zero teams in baseball more pathetic than the Pirates. If there was a franchise which needed new ownership or a move, it’s Pittsburgh. The ultimate AAAA farm team for the rest of MLB. Never spend, almost never competitive. They haven’t won their division in 30 years.
Last World Series, 1979 (only Seattle, an expasion team in 1977 has a longer drought)
Last Championship Series, 1992
Cmon dude, we’ve all heard this schtick countless times. If that’s all you’re ever gonna say either shut up or find a new team. Not even relevant to the topic.
Put in a salary cap or there will be more teams like the Pirates. 125 million minimum and 175 million max but it should be a 150 million max.
If any small market teams can’t afford the minimum sell or move the team.
I think a luxury tax could be two way. I’m not sure the exact cutoffs, but maybe under $100MM a tax, under $80MM loss of next competitive balance pick, draft penalty, under $60MM loss of next 1st round and competitive balance draft pick.
As far as the comment above for “find a new team” I’m not a Pirates fan and never have been. Just saying the team is an embarrassment to MLB. It’s a bummer we keep hearing about Oakland and Tampa moving when the Pirates are arguably far less competitive and cheaper.
The Angels have three prospect outfielders right now in Jordyn Adams, Jo Adell, and Brandon Marsh. I expect one of them to be in a package for a pitcher this off-season.
Adams has not been good this year.
He was ranked 90th best prospect at the beginning of the season, and he’s still only be 22 in October. He absolutely has value.
Watson,Mack and Mayer for Reynolds
Kim Yang is proving to be an awful GM
I really am not a fan of what could’ve happened because it didn’t.
Of course everyone would ask about Reynolds.. i mean pirates are offloading.. dumb not to ask about everyone you might need.
I’m not surprised the Marlins or anyone else wouldn’t get near an asking price. I heard they where looking at Stallings too… in the same trade it would practically wipe out a teams farm. a projection of an 7-9 fWAR type seasons between them two …
No way I’d want them to go but the talent they’d bring in would make any GM drool…. if you could find a buyer.
Both could be fitting the 2023 timeline.. if there is no hope for 2023 at the 22 deadline.. then we might see some more serious talks if buyers are around.