Headlines

  • Braves Designate Craig Kimbrel For Assignment
  • Corbin Burnes To Undergo Tommy John Surgery
  • Braves Select Craig Kimbrel
  • Jerry Reinsdorf, Justin Ishbia Reach Agreement For Ishbia To Obtain Future Majority Stake In White Sox
  • White Sox To Promote Kyle Teel
  • Sign Up For Trade Rumors Front Office Now And Lock In Savings!
  • Previous
  • Next
Register
Login
  • Hoops Rumors
  • Pro Football Rumors
  • Pro Hockey Rumors

MLB Trade Rumors

Remove Ads
  • Home
  • Teams
    • AL East
      • Baltimore Orioles
      • Boston Red Sox
      • New York Yankees
      • Tampa Bay Rays
      • Toronto Blue Jays
    • AL Central
      • Chicago White Sox
      • Cleveland Guardians
      • Detroit Tigers
      • Kansas City Royals
      • Minnesota Twins
    • AL West
      • Houston Astros
      • Los Angeles Angels
      • Oakland Athletics
      • Seattle Mariners
      • Texas Rangers
    • NL East
      • Atlanta Braves
      • Miami Marlins
      • New York Mets
      • Philadelphia Phillies
      • Washington Nationals
    • NL Central
      • Chicago Cubs
      • Cincinnati Reds
      • Milwaukee Brewers
      • Pittsburgh Pirates
      • St. Louis Cardinals
    • NL West
      • Arizona Diamondbacks
      • Colorado Rockies
      • Los Angeles Dodgers
      • San Diego Padres
      • San Francisco Giants
  • About
    • MLB Trade Rumors
    • Tim Dierkes
    • Writing team
    • Advertise
    • Archives
  • Contact
  • Tools
    • 2024-25 MLB Free Agent List
    • 2025-26 MLB Free Agent List
    • 2024-25 Top 50 MLB Free Agents With Predictions
    • Projected Arbitration Salaries For 2025
    • Free Agent Contest Leaderboard
    • Contract Tracker
    • Transaction Tracker
    • Agency Database
  • NBA/NFL/NHL
    • Hoops Rumors
    • Pro Football Rumors
    • Pro Hockey Rumors
  • App
  • Chats
Go To Pro Hockey Rumors
Go To Hoops Rumors

Phillies Acquire Kyle Gibson, Ian Kennedy For Package Including Spencer Howard

By Anthony Franco | July 30, 2021 at 3:34pm CDT

The Phillies struck a deadline deal to add a pair of quality arms — one each for the rotation and the bullpen. Philadelphia acquired starter Kyle Gibson and reliever Ian Kennedy from the Rangers, along with pitching prospect Hans Crouse. In return, the Phils are sending three players, including young righty Spencer Howard. Texas also added pitching prospects Kevin Gowdy and Josh Gessner.

After Max Scherzer and José Berríos were dealt, Gibson was perhaps the top remaining starter on the market. The Phils were known to be targeting pitching help, and they struck big with a package deal to address the middle of the rotation and the back end of the bullpen.

Gibson signed a three-year, $28MM deal with Texas over the 2019-20 offseason. It started inauspiciously, as he tossed 67 1/3 innings of 5.35 ERA ball during last year’s shortened season. However, the veteran righty flipped the script this season. After a rough Opening Day, Gibson got on a roll and eventually pitched his way to his first career All-Star selection with a fantastic first half. He’s hit a rough patch recently, but his overall line remains impressive.

The 33-year-old has worked 113 innings across 19 starts, pitching to a 2.87 ERA/4.46 SIERA. His run prevention numbers have been aided by opponents’ .267 batting average on balls in play and an elevated 79.7% strand rate. That said, Gibson has a long track record of inducing grounders, and he’s continued to do so this season. He’s a generally durable hurler who throws strikes at a decent rate and has had success limiting damaging contact.

Gibson’s not the top-of-the-rotation starter his ERA and All-Star nod might suggest at first glance. But he’s a dependable arm who can be counted on to log average or slightly better production. That’s an upgrade over the inconsistency that has plagued the back of the Philly rotations for the past few years.

Speaking of longstanding troubles in Philadelphia, the bullpen has again been a problem for the Phils. They’ll try to shore that up with Kennedy, who has made good on an offseason minor league deal. The veteran righty gave the Rangers 32 1/3 innings of 2.51 ERA ball, striking out a strong 27.8% of opposing hitters against a 5.6% walk rate. The deal turned out exactly as the rebuilding club had hoped, with Kennedy performing well enough to be flipped midseason to a contender.

Gibson is playing out the season on a $10MM salary (about $3.5MM of which remains to be paid out). He’s controllable affordably for 2022 at $7MM as part of a backloaded arrangement. Kennedy, meanwhile, locked in a $2.15MM base salary when he made the Rangers’ Opening Day roster and is due about $750K for the stretch run before hitting free agency at the end of the year.

The Rangers are reportedly including around $4MM in salary, which was critical for the Phillies as they looked to stay below the $210MM luxury tax threshold. Philadelphia’s luxury mark sits at around $204MM, in the estimation of Jason Martinez of Roster Resource, so the front office successfully stayed below the figure in pulling off their big midseason additions.

Doing so will require parting ways with Howard, who has long been one of the organization’s (and league’s) top pitching prospects. Baseball America ranked the righty among MLB’s top thirty prospects entering both the 2020 and 2021 seasons. He’s bounced on and off the big league roster over the past couple years, tossing 52 2/3 innings of 5.81 ERA/4.81 SIERA ball.

Clearly, Howard has yet to find consistent major league success. But the 24-year-old is a well-regarded stating pitching prospect with a strong minor league track record. He’s performed very well over six starts at Triple-A Lehigh Valley this season and is a quality young arm around whom the Rangers can build as they continue their organizational retooling effort. Howard is controllable through at least the 2026 season, and future optional assignments could push back that trajectory.

Texas also adds a pair of pitchers who haven’t yet gotten to the big leagues. Gowdy is a former second-round draft choice, but the righty has yet to get out of the low minors. The 23-year-old has performed fairly well in High-A, though, tossing 61 innings of 4.43 ERA ball with strong strikeout and walk numbers (24.0% and 5.7%, respectively). Gessner, a former international signee out of Australia, has yet to advance beyond the complex level.

In a final twist, the Phillies add a prospect of their own. Crouse was a 2017 second-round draftee, and he’s spent the season in Double-A. The righty has tossed 51 innings with a 3.35 ERA at that level, punching out 27.7% of batters faced while walking 9.7% of opponents. Eric Logenhagen of FanGraphs wrote over the winter that Crouse’s injury history and atypical mechanics seem likely to push him to the bullpen, but noted that his repertoire depth could be good enough to give him a chance to stick as a starter. He’ll need to be added to the 40-man roster this winter or exposed to the Rule 5 draft.

Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic first reported the Phillies were acquiring Gibson and Kennedy. Jeff Passan of ESPN was first to report that Howard was included as part of the deal. Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News reported Gowdy’s and Gessner’s inclusions. Jeff Wilson reported the Rangers were including a prospect, whom Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia reported to be Crouse. Todd Zolecki of MLB.com reported the Rangers were including approximately $4MM in cash considerations.

Share 0 Retweet 2 Send via email0

Newsstand Philadelphia Phillies Texas Rangers Transactions Hans Crouse Ian Kennedy Josh Gessner Kevin Gowdy Kyle Gibson Spencer Howard

Braves To Acquire Richard Rodriguez
Main
Giants To Acquire Kris Bryant
View Comments (170)
Post a Comment

170 Comments

  1. DarkSide830

    4 years ago

    oh boy

    Reply
    • lemonlyman

      4 years ago

      Howard gone?

      2
      Reply
    • Dalton1017

      4 years ago

      Gibby has been really good last game there was a lot of issues with the ump

      Reply
    • Francys01

      4 years ago

      Hopefully, Gibson pitches well for the Phillies. Not my favorite acquisition when Kenta Maeda is still available. But let’s see.

      2
      Reply
      • Tatsumaki

        4 years ago

        I will say this much ranger pitching coach needs a huge raise. Dude works wonders with multiple reclamation project to get strong returns for rangers. Lock him up if you can!

        2
        Reply
        • DarkSide830

          4 years ago

          yeah, hoping Gibson has actually turned a corner a la Lynn.

          Reply
  2. VonPurpleHayes

    4 years ago

    Meh

    Reply
    • Samuel

      4 years ago

      Too little….too late.

      Dombroski really has nothing to trade.

      5
      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        4 years ago

        Right. So sell. Don’t give up Spencer Howard for this.

        1
        Reply
        • htbnm57

          4 years ago

          3 inning wonder

          1
          Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          They literally just did a full tear down less than a decade ago that just ended in 2019. They completely screwed it up. Now you think they should do that again?

          Reply
      • DarkSide830

        4 years ago

        except the guys they are trading?

        Reply
        • JayPhilsFan

          4 years ago

          Howard is a reliever long term

          Reply
      • PhanaticDuck26

        4 years ago

        “nothing to trade” is a weak argument; they could decide to go past the luxury tax threshold in order to improve the team. Offer two good prospects to the Twins in exchange for Donaldson and Berrios, with the Phils paying down a good portion of JDs contract.

        Reply
        • andymeyer

          4 years ago

          Go over the luxury tax and completely level what little farm they have. No offense, but thank goodness you’re not a GM
          Phillies had nothing close to get Berríos

          2
          Reply
        • iverbure

          4 years ago

          Gotta love the just over the tax fans on all the teams. These are the people you need to mute. Just so out of touch with reality.

          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          4 years ago

          How do you go over the tax if you have nothing of value to trade for the players you want to pay?

          Reply
        • phillyballers

          4 years ago

          “Two good prospects” lol this guy almost spit out my beer

          Reply
  3. phillies012tg

    4 years ago

    Bye SpencerHoward

    2
    Reply
  4. nmendoza7

    4 years ago

    Horny time

    1
    Reply
  5. Comment Section Mod

    4 years ago

    No top prospect is safe this year.

    Reply
    • damascusj

      4 years ago

      Unless you’re a prospect in the Padres system

      1
      Reply
  6. tstats

    4 years ago

    Dang wanted him in Dodger Blue

    Reply
    • lemonlyman

      4 years ago

      I’m sure everyone feels terrible for them lol

      8
      Reply
  7. Bill Kane

    4 years ago

    Wish they could go get Bryant now. Harper would love that. Trade Hoskins to the Cubs as part of the package.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      That’s insane. Hoskins for 2 months of Bryant? No way.

      2
      Reply
      • Phillies Phan

        4 years ago

        This I agree with.

        Reply
    • Samuel

      4 years ago

      After the season……

      Reply
    • Audrey

      4 years ago

      What are the Cubs going to do with Hoskins?

      Reply
      • Eatdust666

        4 years ago

        They would have him fill the void at first base.

        1
        Reply
        • Audrey

          4 years ago

          They’ll probably have Wisdom play first, who is basically Hoskins but he can also play third.

          Reply
  8. TaylorLH

    4 years ago

    Spencer Howard is a big get for Texas. May not be an ace but 5yrs of him is a solid return

    2
    Reply
    • stevetampa

      4 years ago

      Probably not SHoward. Stott perhaps, and a few others

      Reply
      • TaylorLH

        4 years ago

        Nope Howard + 2 more lol

        2
        Reply
      • Phillies Phan

        4 years ago

        No way would we have traded Stott for anything less than an elite player.

        Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      trust me, he’s a project. possibly more than Allard was when dealt for.

      2
      Reply
      • TaylorLH

        4 years ago

        It’s not like he has to be be rock solid in the rotation this year or next. He can work it out if he’s ready by 2023 we’re good.

        The stockpile of young arms is really starting to get there.

        Howard, Allard, Dunning, Lieter, Winn, Crouse, Otto, Rodriquez, Alexy plus if any of the guys like Palumbo, Burke, Phillips, etc can turn it around there’s plenty of chances

        Reply
        • justinkm19

          4 years ago

          Crouse was included

          1
          Reply
    • edcl54

      4 years ago

      Spencer Howard is an injury waiting to happen

      Reply
      • iverbure

        4 years ago

        You can say that about any pitcher, ever.

        Reply
  9. ♪

    4 years ago

    Phillies panicked and ended up making a stupid trade..

    4
    Reply
    • MiddleIn

      4 years ago

      Why because they can’t find a guy to pitch 3 innings like Spencer Howard?

      2
      Reply
      • Joel Peterson

        4 years ago

        Young players get better…..

        Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      Disagree. Howard was losing value with each outing. Getting a reliable #3/4 was their only chance at the playoffs, and they did it.

      They also picked up a guy who is in AA along with Gibson and Kennedy. That for two players who have yet to get out of A ball and a guy who can’t keep his velocity for more than a few innings. Yes they might all be great one day but there’s still multiple levels for them to pass before they even make it to the majors. Plus look at how badly the Phillies have screwed up almost every young pitcher they’ve had since Cole Hamels.

      Reply
  10. philsphan1979

    4 years ago

    Phillies are BUMS

    Reply
  11. Ancient Pistol

    4 years ago

    Things are moving so fast I can’t keep up.

    1
    Reply
    • dbdmack

      4 years ago

      Hit refresh

      2
      Reply
  12. philsphan1979

    4 years ago

    Out of all the trades to make they make possibly the WORST of them all out of 29 teams. When are they going to quit acquiring these old washed up players? I’m not watching another single game this season

    2
    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      This is really bad. They should have sold. They gave up too much for this. 3rd place team.

      4
      Reply
      • htbnm57

        4 years ago

        I’m actually pretty impressed that DD got a good pitching prospect and $ in this deal. I’m not sold on Howard ever being a starter, he projects better as a possible closer.

        2
        Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          Hard to see that even given his heavy fastball and control/velocity issues.

          Reply
      • Phillies Phan

        4 years ago

        What are you even talking about? The only player they gave up who is anywhere close to the majors is Howard.

        I’m the first one to hate on the Phillies getting washed up guys for our best prospects but Howard has been terrible, and the other players involved are in A ball. We also just drafted literally nothing but pitchers and outfielders (other than one pick) and signed the first 11 players we drafted.

        Gibson is a solid pitcher who is 33 and has an option for next season. Kennedy imo is just a throw in but is still a solid acquisition.

        Sell? They’re barely getting fans back in the stands as it is. If the Phillies sold, they could have looked forward to a near empty stadium for years to come. Not to mention all of our best players are in their prime with nobody to replace them on the horizon. Cutch is gone after this year. We have legitimate replacements for our stopgap guys for the first time in years. You don’t sell. You ride the wave until the off-season then decide who you want to bring back.

        Reply
    • tstats

      4 years ago

      Aggressive response, I like it.

      1
      Reply
  13. raef715

    4 years ago

    i dont think Howard may ever be able to be a consistent starter in the big leagues, could be a good reliever, but still not a fan as i dont believe they have a chance to win this year, so you gave him up for 1 year of Gibson. ugh.

    1
    Reply
  14. BrianBrian

    4 years ago

    LOVE this. Great guy in Gibson who’s having a fabulous year, plus great for the locker room. Same thing with Kennedy who could be used in multiple roles well. Howard couldn’t even throw 4 innings anyways. Hopefully they hold onto Marchan

    5
    Reply
  15. JayPhilsFan

    4 years ago

    Nice move Dave, for who?

    Reply
  16. JayPhilsFan

    4 years ago

    Nice move Dave, for who?

    Reply
  17. VonPurpleHayes

    4 years ago

    Howard and prospects for this??? Wow. I hate this franchise.

    3
    Reply
    • philsphan1979

      4 years ago

      Agreed , but looking at it…they almost HAVE to make more noise than this otherwise this trade was pointless . Who knows? Buxton-Donaldson trade coming next

      2
      Reply
  18. JayPhilsFan

    4 years ago

    Nice move Dave, for who?

    Reply
  19. kreckert

    4 years ago

    Well… meh.

    But I’m not going to miss Spencer Howard. I honestly don’t think he’s ever going to be more than serviceable and I don’t think he’s worth the effort to get him there.

    4
    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      Watch Howard in 3 years

      Reply
      • Rsk3228

        4 years ago

        In three years he will be a middle relief pitcher. For all the hype Howard has not impressed me consistently. He can be lights out for 2 innings and then fall apart. Reminds me of Pivetta with less stamina.

        3
        Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          4 years ago

          Howard is not even supposed to be in the majors yet. So I’m not judging him by his current level,but by his potential. Gibson has red flags galore. Kennedy is meh. This move doesn’t get the Phillies above .500. They should’ve sold for more prospects instead of trading 3 potential talents away for mediocre pitchers.

          Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          Pivetta was way better than Howard. Howard reminds me of Alec Asher.

          Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          And wasted more of Nola’s prime?

          At some point you have to stop selling.

          Reply
  20. thughand

    4 years ago

    I mean, I honestly don’t really get it from the Phil’s perspective. You’re giving up a kid who may still have some potential for a couple guys who don’t really move the needle. Still a .500 team.

    1
    Reply
    • Garett

      4 years ago

      Gibson starting instead of Vince or Moore is already a 4 WAR gain plus the Phillies have him next year. If it’s howard and throw ins as the return I’m fine. It’s going to depend who these other two prospects are.

      4
      Reply
      • phantomofdb

        4 years ago

        I don’t know how you pay anything other than Rental price for Gibson. This year is a major anomaly on his career. You can bet on him having figured something out, but it’s more likely that this is an outlier year.

        Reply
        • bucketbrew35

          4 years ago

          Rangers fixed Lance Lynn and Mike Minor, why not Kyle Gibson? I personally don’t understand the hate or the outrage. Gibson will make an excellent 5th starter next year. I feel like this helps the team immensely. Gowdy and Gessner will not be missed. Best case scenario for Spencer Howard is him having a similar career to Ryan Madsen.

          3
          Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          I’d be amazed if he’s anywhere near as good as Madson.

          Reply
        • Phillies Phan

          4 years ago

          He’s been a 4th/5th starter at worst his whole career, which is exactly what the Phillies needed.

          I don’t get the hate.

          Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      This is a huge gut punch. Complete opposite of what they should have done. I’m floored by it.

      2
      Reply
      • Samuel

        4 years ago

        @ VonPurpleHayes;

        I don’t think you realizer how awful that rebuild was.

        Have been unimpressed with Howard. They got 2 decent ML pitchers to get them through the season. Then we’ll see. I expect McCutchen’s salary comes off the books, Hoskins is traded before Boras gets him $20M a year. Didi goes (with the Phillies paying part of his salary). Bryant comes to play LF with his buddy. JT goes to 1B before he falls apart from catching full time. Knapp becomes the C. And the pitching staff is radically overhauled.

        1
        Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      We literally didn’t have a single 4th or 5th starter who could repeat their mechanics consistently let alone hit their spots.

      This is a huge move.

      Reply
  21. CrikesAlready

    4 years ago

    Hahahahaha. AJ Preller is either floating disinformation or he’s a victim of his greed.

    Reply
    • Samuel

      4 years ago

      MLB GM’s are so used watching Preller radically overpay on trades, that they won’t deal with him unless he does.

      Reply
  22. Camden453

    4 years ago

    Omg they got rid of Howard. They mismanaged then traded one of the best pitching prospects in the league. But as a Mets fan, great news

    Reply
    • Bill M

      4 years ago

      They may have just received the 2 pitchers that will put them past the Mets in the NL Least. Meanwhile, the Mets have done nothing.

      1
      Reply
      • Ducky Buckin Fent

        4 years ago

        ^ this is exactly how I see it too, @Bill M.

        2
        Reply
  23. panj341

    4 years ago

    They finally found someone to take Howard off their hands ?

    Reply
  24. Bob333

    4 years ago

    Bad move par for the course should have been selling.Howard no great loss lets see who else.

    Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      Selling isn’t always the solution. It’s seriously all some of you ever suggest no matter the sport. Chill.

      Reply
  25. Audrey

    4 years ago

    Time will tell who wins this trade. Howard is great but he falls apart 2nd time thru the order, kind of like Velazquez always does. He has time for improvement, but I guess the Phillies are impatient.

    3
    Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      I really wouldn’t compare the two. Vince is a guy who could maybe be a solid #4/5 on a team with elite defense if he repeated his mechanics enough to be a ground-ball pitcher like he should be. His problems are minor and could possibly be cleaned up by a dedicated team.

      Howard is an Ethan Martin type except he can’t even keep his velocity for more than an inning or two.

      Reply
  26. Dalton1017

    4 years ago

    Kevin Gowdy and josh gessner to the Rangers

    Reply
    • Dalton1017

      4 years ago

      Phil’s win they got Hans Crouse

      1
      Reply
    • Bob333

      4 years ago

      no great loss

      Reply
  27. Sideline Redwine

    4 years ago

    And the Rays FO appears to just sit on its hands…how disappointing. Sure, Cruz helps the offense, but he made the defense worse (Meadows in OF), and we traded our best starter and closer away w minimal returns (even if Chargois is a wash w Castillo). Needed pitching, did not get it. Division will belong to the sox, hopefully we hold on to wc and can win that game (maybe Wacha will start lol).

    Reply
  28. Basballfanno1

    4 years ago

    Garbage trade

    Reply
  29. DannyQ3913

    4 years ago

    Howard is overrated, bye bye.

    2
    Reply
  30. Never Remember

    4 years ago

    Horrible deal for Phillies. No point to it. Dombrowski sucks.

    Reply
  31. Orel Saxhiser

    4 years ago

    The Nationals should scratch Juan Soto from tonight’s starting lineup just to shake everyone up.

    2
    Reply
  32. jdgoat

    4 years ago

    Phillies getting Crouse is pretty big. What an interesting move, basically just downgrading a little bit of prospect hype from Howard.

    2
    Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      Honestly, Crouse may be a risk, but this is a huge win I feel for us.

      3
      Reply
      • User 1104686089

        4 years ago

        I mean he is a AA pitcher having a decent year. I bet he is a bullpen guy in the end.

        Reply
        • htbnm57

          4 years ago

          He’s still only 20

          Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          Crouse is 23. But this is true, no idea at the moment and probably won’t know for awhile. He does throw gas and has a pretty good breaking ball. It just usually happens that guys like this end up in the bullpen.

          Reply
  33. Bob333

    4 years ago

    Just a deal to say they tried.Dombrowski is a DOPE

    Reply
  34. Tcsbaseball

    4 years ago

    The rangers are so stupid, why would they send their best pitching prospect over in the deal? Being a fan of theirs is the worst. So stupid

    1
    Reply
    • User 1104686089

      4 years ago

      You think Hans Crouse was our best pitching prospect? He’s an interesting guy no doubt but there is no way in the world he is better than Cole Winn

      1
      Reply
      • justinkm19

        4 years ago

        Or Leiter

        Reply
    • Dalton1017

      4 years ago

      not our best pitching prospect. but still very good

      1
      Reply
      • User 1104686089

        4 years ago

        Maybe? Spencer Howard has a much higher ceiling and it isn’t close. Almost every report I have read on Crouse suggests a move to the bullpen and the Frisco games I have seen this year haven’t taught me anything different. He could be very useful, but I doubt he is an ace and he may move to the bullpen, as is the way with power fastball/ slider guys. Maybe I am eating my words someday.

        Reply
  35. rangers92

    4 years ago

    Why the Fk did the Rangers include their #9 Hans Crouse?? They’re trying to add prospects not get rid of them. Rangers front office at it again.
    Fking Garbage

    1
    Reply
  36. Joe It All

    4 years ago

    At least it was only Hans Crouse and they kept that Hans Gruber kid.

    1
    Reply
  37. TDM

    4 years ago

    Terrible. Terrible. Phillies should have SOLD. Giving up Howard for a 36 y/o rental and a 33 y/o with one year left on his contract. I have no more words other than I have been calling for the Phillies to SELL for the last month or so.

    I know nothing about the Rangers’ prospect so speaking of Terrible, I hope I’m Terribly wrong about parting with Howard.

    Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      have you seen Howard? Crouse is arguably a better risk to take on.

      Reply
      • jett

        4 years ago

        I don’t think the issue is giving up Howard but giving him up for said package. He has his warts but a player like him will still have some appeal to him. It also weakens any potential offer for another player.

        I know Buxton is a big risk due to health, but I would’ve felt better about dealing Howard in a package for Buxton. He wouldn’t be the headliner but a good serviceable second piece. This is why the winter is so important. The Phillies could’ve had Gibson 2 years ago but didn’t prioritize that roster spot and then gave guaranteed deals to Anderson & Moore with no real backing stats to support them. Ugh

        Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      They literally just ended a failed rebuild a year or two ago.

      Is selling always your answer or something?

      Reply
  38. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    Howard looks awesome for two or three innings but implodes every time after that. I thought they should have moved him to the BP and moved Suarez to a SP. Howard, Velasquez, Moore and Anderson have been absolutely horrible as starters and have killed the BP putting the team in a huge hole by the 3rd inning every time. That said these new guys can’t be worse than what we’ve seen( although I said that about the BP acquisitions last year and they were biblically bad).

    1
    Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      i like them to keep a good thing going here with Suarez out of the pen.

      2
      Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      We wouldn’t even be at .500 if not for Anderson and Vince being our only good starters not named Wheeler at different points in the season.

      Howard would’ve been even worse in the bullpen just like every single failed starter we tried to make a bullpen arm.

      No way Ranger should be in the rotation. He’s the first potential legit closer we’ve had since idiotically trading away Giles for no reason. He should be the setup man.

      Reply
  39. Rsk3228

    4 years ago

    Has Crouse been any good. From what I have read he has some injury concerns. Does he change the complexion of the deal? At first I thought Howard for just Gibson and Kennedy was light, but now I am not sure.

    Reply
    • User 1104686089

      4 years ago

      Nope no injury concerns. Most of the concern is that he is a two pitch guy who will never develop a third pitch. If he doesn’t he could be a useful bullpen guy. If he does than he is propably a starter, though probably not a front end guy. Useful player down the line I suspect.

      1
      Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      Surely the best prospect? Gowdy and Gessner are lotto tickets. former is R5 and later is very green.

      Reply
      • User 1104686089

        4 years ago

        the best prospect over Howard? Howard is like a FV 50 guy. Crouse is like a FV 40+ – 45 guy. Crouse might be useful but this isn’t a can’t miss prospect and there is no publication that would rank Crouse above Howard. If Howard figures it out, he’s a backend starter as his floor. I kind of like this risk for Texas.

        Reply
  40. PinstripedPride

    4 years ago

    Not a bad move, by any means. The Phils needed to improve their pitching and they did that. Good job DD

    2
    Reply
  41. Timothy Salahi

    4 years ago

    How stupid the rangers are you got nothing back In this trade and gave up one of are best pitching prospect just unbelievable

    Reply
    • stevetampa

      4 years ago

      Timothy – Howard is better than Crouse. And you pick up two fliers for a starter who will be lucky to pitch sub 4-FIP. Howard still figuring things out. Still has SP2 / SP3 upside. Crouse doesn’t have that.

      Reply
      • TaylorLH

        4 years ago

        Crouse has a 3.35ERA in AA before turning 23 with a 9.5 K/9 throwing high upper 90s and a wipeout slider. He’s an average change up away from being a pretty easy back end starter and if he finds a 3rd pitch he might end up as effective as Howard if Howard doesn’t put it together.

        It’s risky it’s just kinda like how did they get to adding a high upside arm to 2 players and cash to land Howard because the fliers were there to even out sending Crouse

        Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          Honestly the coolest thing about Crouse is his mustache and his funny leg shimmies that he throws in haha! He might be a fun closer actually.

          Reply
  42. TDM

    4 years ago

    The fact that it seems most Phillies fans and most Rangers fans on this thread do not like this deal from their respective views tells me maybe its a “push” and somewhat of a blah this really doesn’t matter type deal. At least hopefully the Phillies will not have to see VV or MM start another game this year.

    1
    Reply
    • TaylorLH

      4 years ago

      I think Howard’s definitely the better end of the deal if he irons it out at all, it’s just the idea you’re already trading 2 pieces and paying for one of them for 1 solid arm and a couple lottos. Did you really need to give up a high upside arm on top of it all to get this done.

      He’s not nothing he was a Top100 prospect in 2019 and he’s got a 3.35 ERA in 13 starts in AA at 23Yr old

      Reply
    • User 1104686089

      4 years ago

      Most Rangers fans have no idea who Hans Crouse is and they don’t watch Frisco. He is just number 9 in a middling farm system to them. The reality is that we have a ton of “might be decent” bigleague type arms around and we have 2 impact/ starter prospects now with Jack Leiter and Cole Winn, Howard gives you a shot at a third. Here’s hoping two of those three don’t suck.

      Reply
      • TaylorLH

        4 years ago

        The problem giving up Crouse is the high upside stuff. He’s a 3rd pitch away from having real shot at being a middle rotation arm. And if he didn’t he would be able to go into a big back of bullpen power arm.

        I mean there’s more saying Howard might end up clicking being a solid mid rotation guy and Crouse ends up as a power arm in the back of a bullpen but if he finds that 3rd pitch he has as much upside as Howard.

        Still I do agree Howard Winn Lieter all have top notch stuff. The idea of those 3 with Otto Allard Dunning and you could see a solid rotation of guys all well under 30

        Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          They Rangers always seem to have two pitch power sliders and fastball guys, or we just randomly find one from Japan or something. Finding those guys is actually something we are weirdly good at. Crouse could be much more than that, but weird mechanics and average changeups usually end up in the pen, it just works out that way alot.

          I like the idea of trying our luck with a guy like Howard who already has 3 possibly 4 plus pitches and trying to help him figure it out. I just think we are hurting for high upside guys, and Howard could be one of those guys.

          Reply
        • TaylorLH

          4 years ago

          I mean I still would take the deal. Howard is close to ready and has a better shot sticking at SP2/SP3. Crouse isn’t Winn.

          Heck one could argue Yerry Rodriquez is the better SP prospect in frisco over Crouse. That’ll be the guy who comes out of nowhere next year

          Reply
    • DarkSide830

      4 years ago

      sadly both will while Eflin is on the IL.

      Reply
  43. dudeman40

    4 years ago

    We gave up Crouse AND money!! SMH

    2
    Reply
  44. Ezpkns34

    4 years ago

    Phils got the best prospect in the deal too. What is Texas doing?

    2
    Reply
    • tsc32

      4 years ago

      Howard is easily the best prospect. But I’m still not a fan of us giving up Crouse.

      Reply
  45. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    Freddy Galvis coming back to Phillies, should improve SS defense

    Reply
    • Samuel

      4 years ago

      Didi’s play is awful.

      Reply
      • Phillies Phan

        4 years ago

        Did you ever think that maybe that’s because Girardi keeps sitting him and playing Torreyes over him after over a month of Didi not playing? How exactly is Didi supposed to get comfortable that way?

        Reply
  46. slugger82685

    4 years ago

    why the F*** are the RANGERS always having to send back prospects in trades where the other team is acquiring the major pieces????? this becomes an absolute crap trade with the inclusion of Crouse…….do they not realize their pitching is always garbage and they need as much talent as they can get and keep???

    4
    Reply
    • Guyerbassist

      4 years ago

      Yep exactly this team pisses me off so much

      4
      Reply
  47. VonPurpleHayes

    4 years ago

    A little better now that I see the Phillies got 1 prospect back. Still too much for too little. 3rd place team IMO.

    Reply
    • kje76

      4 years ago

      Probably, but hard to say this year. Mets and Braves have both had injury issues and aren’t pulling away, the Nationals traded half their roster, and the Marlins struggle against teams that don’t wear red pinstripes.

      Reply
    • andymeyer

      4 years ago

      The Mets schedule is absolutely brutal the rest of the way. If the Phillies can go on a run, who knows.

      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        4 years ago

        Phillies can’t go on a run. Haven’t all year. Got murdered by the Pirates tonight.

        Reply
  48. TaylorLH

    4 years ago

    Trade went from an A+ for Texas, to still an A with the money to a B maybe B- throwing in Crouse.

    I mean I’m still thinking Howard’s worth it, but even if Crouse ends up in the BP as a back end power pitcher idk why you’re sending 2 mlb needs, paying for Gibson, and still throwing in a top 10-20 prospect to land one guy and a couple lottos.

    I’m still thinking Howard ends up being a starter and it’s worth it, but if Crouse ends up sticking as a starter and Howard doesn’t turn into a SP2/SP3 you gave them Gibson and Kennedy for free.

    Phillies gotta feel a lot better about this trade after the money and Crouse

    2
    Reply
    • User 1104686089

      4 years ago

      I agree, but you gotta give something to get something. I think these are the types of moves that a rebuilding club like the Rangers should make. There is risk, but in all likelyhood we have a few other guys in the system that are going to end up being what Crouse will be, we are pretty deep. We do not have a ton of high impact guys with high ceilings right now, Howard has a high ceiling.

      Reply
      • TaylorLH

        4 years ago

        Oh no doubt that Howard Lieter and Winn cool like a solid young group of arms and all it takes is Allard Otto Dunning to come around and you have a solid group of guys in their mid 20s

        It’s just a high upside arm which hurts

        Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          it does, he has had a nice year.

          Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          Don’t forget Ragans. People sleep on that guy because he got hurt,

          Reply
      • tsc32

        4 years ago

        We gave up an all star starter, a high performing closer, and cash. That’s quite a lot of something’s for one prospect (let’s be honest. The two flyers barely factor in). Crouse was unnecessary.

        1
        Reply
        • User 1104686089

          4 years ago

          It’s Gibson, he’s had a nice year true. But guys he’s a backend starter on a good day most years. I doubt very much that he has a strong second half as he benefited a bunch from a good defense. We had to give up something to get a good prospect, it just works that way.

          Reply
  49. Steviefigs

    4 years ago

    The Rangers cant deal period. They would screw up a wet dream. We lose every trade throwing in extra money and giving to much.

    3
    Reply
    • User 1104686089

      4 years ago

      I am always curious what makes people decide this stuff. Which trades have we lost? If you take JD’s record as a whole he is pretty fair at trades. The Ranger’s problem is scouting and player development, not trades. The Phillies actually know this very, very well.

      Reply
    • jdgoat

      4 years ago

      Jon Daniels isn’t very good at his job

      3
      Reply
      • User 1104686089

        4 years ago

        Haha a very deep and thoughtful take. He is ok, he built a really nice winner once when I was a kid, and he did it through some really nice trades, because even back then our player development stunk. I am not singing his praises from the rooftops, but he tends to do better at trading than his player development guys do at drafting and scouting.

        Reply
  50. Matt Ragusa

    4 years ago

    Not a bad move. Gibson actually has a higher WAR than Nola and Eflin this season so he should fit in nicely. Kennedy is OK but I was really hoping for Richard Rodriguez. I guess there really is some bad blood with the Pirates after the Tyler Anderson deal fell through.

    Reply
  51. HardensBeardHasFleas

    4 years ago

    The Phillies gave up nothing, Howard is still several years away and not a top prospect. A number 4 starter was needed as was a respectable closer they got both.Lots of money off the books next year.

    Reply
    • Audrey

      4 years ago

      Howard WAS a top prospect. He loses prospect status when he achieved rookie status. Doesn’t make him any less valuable.

      Reply
  52. Cora the Destroya

    4 years ago

    Still a .500 team

    Reply
    • bucketbrew35

      4 years ago

      And if they add Hamels?

      Reply
      • Cora the Destroya

        4 years ago

        If they add Hamels, still a .500 team.

        Reply
  53. hoof hearted

    4 years ago

    With Gallo and Gibson gone; the M’s better not screw up this series.

    Reply
  54. JGarcia

    4 years ago

    Not happy with JD giving up crouse I’ve seen him pitch in Frisco he looks very promising and he can pump it I would’ve much rather preferred JD to give up a infield prospect or outfield prospect you don’t give up promising pitching prospects you keep them because you never when you might strike gold with one all in all not pleased at all with this

    1
    Reply
  55. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    Can we please release Velasquez. Any AAAA arm off waivers can do better.

    Reply
  56. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    And then ….another totally embarrassing loss by the Phillies.

    Reply
  57. Peart of the game

    4 years ago

    Good move for both sides, Gibson is cheap rotation help for the Phillies and Kennedy can close for them while Howard will get more chances to start as a Ranger.

    Reply
  58. Whiskey and leather balls

    4 years ago

    I wouldnt have given Crouse and 4 million for the three of those guys combined yet Philly fans are complaining about idiot JD adding Gibson and Kenedy as well? Real smart

    Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      Yeah it’s really annoying. This was a solid trade by my Phillies. Gibson is exactly what we needed, and Kennedy helps.

      Howard was going to keep losing value the more he was put out there thanks to our idiotic analytics run organization. There’s a reason players do better after leaving us.

      Reply
  59. Virginiaphilliesfan

    4 years ago

    Howard simply another in a looooong line of young players that never get fully developed by the Phillies – joins Kingery, Moniak, Sixto Sanchez – anxious to see how they screw up Bohm, Maton and Williams

    Reply
    • Phillies Phan

      4 years ago

      Don’t forget turning Rhys into a dead pull hitter with that “launch angle” nonsense.

      Reply
  60. Bob333

    4 years ago

    This is still a 500 team bad chemistry and now to hear McFailure and Klentak are still involved I see why.

    Reply
  61. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    Ian Kennedy is not off to a good start in Philly. What is it that good relievers come to the Phillies and implode ?

    Reply
  62. htbnm57

    4 years ago

    Kennedy reminds me a bit of Wild Thing by making every outing a stressful adventure but Ranger Suarez is a revelation. Allowing him to start is such a help to this team down the stretch.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Please login to leave a reply.

Log in Register

ad: 300x250_1_MLB

    Top Stories

    Braves Designate Craig Kimbrel For Assignment

    Corbin Burnes To Undergo Tommy John Surgery

    Braves Select Craig Kimbrel

    Jerry Reinsdorf, Justin Ishbia Reach Agreement For Ishbia To Obtain Future Majority Stake In White Sox

    White Sox To Promote Kyle Teel

    Sign Up For Trade Rumors Front Office Now And Lock In Savings!

    Pablo Lopez To Miss Multiple Months With Teres Major Strain

    MLB To Propose Automatic Ball-Strike Challenge System For 2026

    Giants Designate LaMonte Wade Jr., Sign Dominic Smith

    Reds Sign Wade Miley, Place Hunter Greene On Injured List

    Padres Interested In Jarren Duran

    Royals Promote Jac Caglianone

    Mariners Promote Cole Young, Activate Bryce Miller

    2025-26 MLB Free Agent Power Rankings: May Edition

    Evan Phillips To Undergo Tommy John Surgery

    AJ Smith-Shawver Diagnosed With Torn UCL

    Reds Trade Alexis Díaz To Dodgers

    Rockies Sign Orlando Arcia

    Ronel Blanco To Undergo Tommy John Surgery

    Joc Pederson Suffers Right Hand Fracture

    Recent

    Blue Jays Recall Spencer Turnbull For Season Debut

    Orioles Notes: Westburg, Mullins, O’Neill

    Tigers Notes: Vierling, Olson, Urquidy, Boyd

    Twins Place Zebby Matthews On 15-Day IL, Reinstate Danny Coulombe

    Yankees Claim CJ Alexander

    Phillies Claim Ryan Cusick, Designate Kyle Tyler

    Brewers Claim Drew Avans

    White Sox Sign Tyler Alexander, Place Jared Shuster On 15-Day IL

    Orioles Designate Matt Bowman For Assignment

    Diamondbacks Select Kyle Backhus, Designate Aramis Garcia

    ad: 300x250_5_side_mlb

    MLBTR Newsletter - Hot stove highlights in your inbox, five days a week

    Latest Rumors & News

    Latest Rumors & News

    • 2024-25 Top 50 MLB Free Agents With Predictions
    • Nolan Arenado Rumors
    • Dylan Cease Rumors
    • Luis Robert Rumors
    • Marcus Stroman Rumors

     

    Trade Rumors App for iOS and Android

    MLBTR Features

    MLBTR Features

    • Remove Ads, Support Our Writers
    • Front Office Originals
    • Front Office Fantasy Baseball
    • MLBTR Podcast
    • 2024-25 Offseason Outlook Series
    • 2025 Arbitration Projections
    • 2024-25 MLB Free Agent List
    • 2025-26 MLB Free Agent List
    • Contract Tracker
    • Transaction Tracker
    • Extension Tracker
    • Agency Database
    • MLBTR On Twitter
    • MLBTR On Facebook
    • Team Facebook Pages
    • How To Set Up Notifications For Breaking News
    • Hoops Rumors
    • Pro Football Rumors
    • Pro Hockey Rumors

    Rumors By Team

    • Angels Rumors
    • Astros Rumors
    • Athletics Rumors
    • Blue Jays Rumors
    • Braves Rumors
    • Brewers Rumors
    • Cardinals Rumors
    • Cubs Rumors
    • Diamondbacks Rumors
    • Dodgers Rumors
    • Giants Rumors
    • Guardians Rumors
    • Mariners Rumors
    • Marlins Rumors
    • Mets Rumors
    • Nationals Rumors
    • Orioles Rumors
    • Padres Rumors
    • Phillies Rumors
    • Pirates Rumors
    • Rangers Rumors
    • Rays Rumors
    • Red Sox Rumors
    • Reds Rumors
    • Rockies Rumors
    • Royals Rumors
    • Tigers Rumors
    • Twins Rumors
    • White Sox Rumors
    • Yankees Rumors

    ad: 160x600_MLB

    Navigation

    • Sitemap
    • Archives
    • RSS/Twitter Feeds By Team

    MLBTR INFO

    • Advertise
    • About
    • Commenting Policy
    • Privacy Policy

    Connect

    • Contact Us
    • Twitter
    • Facebook
    • RSS Feed

    MLB Trade Rumors is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, MLB or MLB.com

    hide arrows scroll to top

    Register

    Desktop Version | Switch To Mobile Version