The blockbuster trade between the Mets and Cubs on deadline day was almost even bigger, as The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal writes that Kris Bryant was also part of talks between the two clubs. The actual trade saw Javier Baez and Trevor Williams go to New York in exchange for top prospect Pete Crow-Armstrong, but Rosenthal reports that the larger version of the swap would’ve also seen the Mets land Bryant and another player off of Chicago’s big league roster. In exchange, the Cubs would have received not only Crow-Armstrong, but also “a prospect they regarded even more highly and a major leaguer under multi-year club control.”
However, the Mets learned of Jacob deGrom’s injury setback on deadline day, which likely made the team wary of making too big of an all-in move. Given how the Cubs were very busy in reshaping their team at the deadline, it’s possible the mystery player could have been any of the players instead dealt elsewhere (i.e. Craig Kimbrel, Jake Marisnick) or possibly someone who is still in a Cubs uniform today. It’s probably safe to guess that one of Francisco Alvarez, Brett Baty, Ronny Mauricio, Matthew Allan, or J.T. Ginn was the blue-chip Mets prospect in question, unless the Cubs were intrigued by someone outside of the upper tier of New York’s prospect rankings.
More from around the National League…
- The Mets could have a new middle infield as soon as tomorrow, as manager Luis Rojas told Newsday’s Tim Healey and other reporters that one or both of Baez and Francisco Lindor could be activated off the 10-day injured list. Sunday marks Baez’s first eligible day to return after being (retroactively) placed on the IL August 12 due to back spasms, while Lindor has been sidelined since July 17 due to a right oblique strain. The Mets have Monday off before beginning a series at home against the Giants on Tuesday, so it is possible the Mets could hold Lindor and/or Baez back to give them another two full recovery days before returning them to the active roster. Baez, at least, seems likely to return by Tuesday at the latest.
- Evan Longoria is day-to-day after being hit on one of his right fingers by a pitch in Wednesday’s game. The third baseman has missed the Giants’ last two contests and manager Gabe Kapler told reporters (including Susan Slusser of The San Francisco Chronicle) that Longoria also wouldn’t play on Sunday. Combined with the Giants’ off-days on Monday and last Thursday, that would give Longoria at least five full days of recovery time. On the plus side, Kapler said that an MRI showed no signs of a fracture in Longoria’s finger. Longoria returned only a week ago from a 60-day injured list stint due to a sprained shoulder, and this finger injury serves as the latest interruption in a very strong comeback season (.289/.382/.526 in 199 PA) for the 35-year-old veteran.
MLBTR’s TC Zencka also contributed to this post
” the larger version of the swap would’ve also seen the Mets land Bryant and another player off of Chicago’s big league roster. In exchange, the Cubs would have received not only Crow-Armstrong, but also “a prospect they regarded even more highly and a major leaguer under multi-year club control.””
Nimmo – Free agent after 2022.
Dom Smith – Free agent after 2024
McNeil – Free agent after 2024
Assuming they mean two players, I would guess Smith and Vientos or Baty.
Realistically has to be Smith or McNeil unless I’m missing something. But…..neither meet the above definition of “prospect”.. Confusing.
The major leaguer under multi year club control was probably JD Davis. I imagine based on the rumors that were flying it would have been PCA, Mauricio, and Davis for Bryant, Baez, and Kimbrel.
They’re Not Trading MAURICIO or any of the Top 6 prospects for 2 month rentals:
Brodie’s NOT HERE ANYMORE….
They already traded PCA for a rental and another guy with one extra year of arb (so a mortgage maybe)
Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery.
They view PCA as damaged goods since as soon as he started playing in the minors he injured his shoulder which might adversely affect his career. It’s a shame because I watched him in ST and he looked very good and is a plus CF.
I’m a Yankee fan and that kid could be better than all the top prospects that have made it to NY in ten years.
THEY DIDN’T MAKE THE TRADE MAN!
Where’s Metsfan22? I would have figured he’d be all over this comment talking about how the Mets should have won it all because of some stat he made up called “Missed WAR.” Oh, wait. Sorry. It’s a real and very accurate statistic. He knows because he heard some guy on ESPN say it.
Missed WAR is a very real statistic. It’s more or less useless, and purely speculative and theoretical, but that doesn’t make it imaginary.
Yeah. I know. That’s why I said he heard it on ESPN. I was really kind of joking about the made up part. It’s just ridiculous how seriously he takes the stat. He acts like it’s incredibly accurate or something and he even counts it for middle relievers that have been injured. That’s pretty ridiculous because middle relievers WAR can change drastically year to year and you can’t count on it for that. He also counts it like every single injured player was certain to have a positive WAR which would never happen. The other problem with missed WAR is sometimes it’s double counted. Like if you have a starter and he gets injured and replaced by someone. Then his replacement gets injured. Missed WAR frequently counts both of those players missed WAR even though if they were both healthy obviously only one of them would be playing the position at a time. I don’t know if that’s what he’s doing but it’s just hysterical how seriously he takes it and believes it to be accurate. I could see maybe taking it with a grain of salt when it comes to the very top super star players in the league (like Acuna or Trout) but even that wouldn’t be accurate. Counting it for players below that level is wildly inaccurate and many of those players frequently end up with negative WAR. There’s one pitcher who was injured but has pitched horribly when healthy and has an ERA of around 9.00. He’s counting him as if he would be guaranteed to bring noticeable positive WAR for the games he missed earlier in the season. It’s kind of sad really. I think he has lost faith in his team and is now just trying to make excuses for them so he can pretend they’re better than they actually are.
Careful. Say his name 3 times and he appears
Heh, yea I know. I was joking too. As a proponent of analytics I hate when statistics like WAR get twisted and misused as if they don’t need tons of context, or that some fans think the theoretical can be piled upon the theoretical and still produce accurate, predictive results.
Yes, but…
You must admit that that “purely speculative and theoretical” is imaginary’s cousin. Fairy tales are real books, but that doesn’t make them true stories.
I thought metsfan22 was really Chris Christie..
hiflew,
You are correct. The swap would have been JD Davis for Bryant but Davis can’t play 3B well and he apparently can’t hit Fastballs either choking and striking out with bases loaded repeatedly. I presume the other prospect Mets offered was Ginn but he hasn’t been looking too good in minors or damaged Allan. (TJS)
If Baez AND Bryant were coming to NY, McNeil would likely have been out of a job. He may STILL be relegated to the bench with Lindor and Baez both returning. At the very least, he’ll be in a platoon with Davis or even sent down if he has options left.
I still say McNeil is better than Baez. Don’t see why he’s out of a job but Smith would be starting in left.
absolutely
McNeil is better than Baez. Baez has power but his OBP is below .280. That is really terrible. He strikes out a tone, too. Only one player in the whole league even comes close to striking out as much as Baez and that guy is a catcher on a terrible team. As a Braves fan I really deGrom had stayed healthy 1 day longer so the Mets made this deal. I’m pretty certain they would have lost the division anyway and it would have cost them their future just to rent a few guys who weren’t going to push them over the top anyway.
McNeil is a better hitter than Baez, and that’s only sans power numbers. In every other way, Baez is a far superior baseball player. I’ve had the pleasure to see a lot of him – he’s an amazing baseball player who does things that change games. If anyone ever teaches him patience at the plate? Watch out. Nonetheless, IMO Baez > McNeil all day, any day.
McNeil’s BA and OBP #s crush Baez and he has power. Any player that gets on base less than 30% of the time is a detriment. And if you could teach Baez plate discipline you could just teach it to every other player, that’s just fantasy. His K rates are amongst the worst in the league.
Agree to disagree. Baez has an x factor. I know that’s subjective.
I would pay money to watch Javy Baez play. Jeff McNeil, not so much.
And as bad as he can look, he still hits a lot of clutch home runs and knocks in a lot of clutch runs. That matters.
Not everything (to me) is black and white. I’m not a Met fan, but I am a baseball fan, and a Lindor/Baez dp duo will be absolutely electric. Maybe chemisty and electricity are what the Mets need. I don’t know.
Baez is not the type of player anyone pays to see. Most offensive players aren’t guys you pay for.
You can’t say anyone, bc I would…so that’s at least one. I love the energy with which he plays. He plays incredible defense, and also runs the bases with panache. But, as always, it’s just my opinion.
The reports included Kimbrel to the Mets as well. Baez, Bryant, Kimbrel, and Williams.
Any smart GM dont deal more than 2 solid players let alone 3 in the same trade.. Thats just dumb thinking.. You spread everyone out bc you get more in return.. Iff you sent Javvy KB Kimbrel all to NYM you are getting 2 of there top 3 guys plus another top 8 guy soo 3 top 10s.. With Kimbrel numbers alone he was worth 2 top 10s.. Soo what Hoyer did alone was smart.. I think The Nats screwed up shouldve split Turner and Scherzer in seperate moves but not often you get the top 2 guys in a loaded farm system..
Coulda woulda shoulda
I love how Cohen came in and said they need to invest in young talent. Then they go out and deal their 2020 1st round pick for a free swinging rental and we’re willing to give up even more to get another rental in the deal. Most overhyped ownership change in MLB history. They are the same old Mets.
Also amusing that so many Mets fans crowned that team the champs immediately after the change in ownership. That team was never a contender to win it all.
Certainly not moi. As soon as I heard Alderson was in charge with Cohen, I knew that it would be the Same Old Mets with a deeper pocketed Owner.
Oh what a horrible first year with Cohen and so many with high expectations totally crushed. I always knew how this would end.
Not the same old Mets at all. Cohen signed Lindor. A bad move, but bad in a different way. But perhaps I’m just nit-picking.
Cohen’s issue so far is that he seems to listen too much to media and the fans. Focusing on the splashier moves instead of the smart ones. Compare the Mets and Braves trade deadline moves.
That being said, this is year one, and it’s a bit premature to be judging him or to be comparing him to the Wilpons in anyway other than that they all seem like horrible human beings. But then again, that’s probably true of most owners.
Cohen’s problem is that he purchased a failing organization and not only did he not clean house of the toxic culture and deadwood, he embraced it by rehiring Alderson and retaining Luis Rojas. An entire organizational fumigation and rebuild is what is required but that will take many years.
He needed to reach out to Theo Epstein and make him an offer he can’t refuse and poach Tampa FO talent with promotions and salary increases. This will require a massive investment and years of sustained financial losses. Look at their minor teams records all massive losing records.
1st step is to kick Alderson and Rojas to the curb and don’t stop there. The country club atmosphere needs to be demolished before any winning can be realized.
So the awful moves are just amplified. Lindor is not a 340 million dollar player.
Yeah. The Lindor/Cookie deal was terrible too. Extending Lindor to THAT BIG of a contract was idiotic too. Why pay Lindor coming off a disappointing season $341 million when you can get a much better shortstop for far less money off the free agent market in just a few months. I don’t know why people expected Lindor to actually hit this year. This is exactly what he did last season. The ball isn’t juiced anymore. This is the real Lindor and for some reason Cohen thought this was worth $341 million worth of payroll space.
I don’t have a crystal ball but I’m pretty sure the Mets are gonna sign Baez and keep the middle infield intact for a few more years. That being said…..it’ll be sad if they don’t address their horrible approach to hitting. They score just enough to lose.
Certainly hope they don’t re-sign Baez. That K machine isn’t gonna help their hitting at all. What they need is higher batting averages, ie, guys that strikeout less.
The only hitter in baseball who strikes out more than Baez is Salvador Perez and he barely strikes out more. His OBP is higher, too. The 3rd most strikeout prone hitter is strikes out nowhere near as much as Baez. He and Perez are taking strikeouts to a new level. The next Mark Reynolds except he costs a lot more and will never hit 40 homers.
@cosmo2…I agree that less strikeouts would be a good starting point. But this roster also needs more team speed and better fundamental skills. Bunting, sacrificing at-bats to move runners up, hitting away from (instead of into) the shift are all skills that can manufacture runs. But you have to put the bat on the ball. A perfect example of this attribute in addition to team speed was in the 1st inning of Friday’s game – Trea Turners speed turns a single into a double, he takes third on a routine fly out and scores on a routine grounder. One run, zero strikeouts. How many times have the Mets scored a run that way this year? You could probably count it on one mitten.
You have to wonder what’s the Mets development strategy in the minor leagues because their major leaguers certainly aren’t arriving as complete players.
And the same can (and should) be said about a lot of teams. Situational baseball…what we used to call “smart baseball” is growing more and more rare.
Agreed! There is a lot of selfish/stupid baseball being played these days. Unfortunately, until the FO’s and organizations change their philosophies it will only continue.
Sacrifice bunts are terrible plays. Giving up an out is NEVER a good strategy. This has been all but empirically proven. Speed on the base paths is also overrated. They don’t need “small ball”, they need better players. Although, yes, some speed as opposed to none would be an improvement. But relying on sac bunts would put them behind everyone else, not ahead. They just need better players.
Teams are not relying on so called situational baseball because they have experts that study this who figured out some time around 1996 that it just doesn’t work. Fans can think what they want, but experts will disagree.
You say “small ball” like it’s a dirty word. Obviously better players would get better results but the ability to use these basic fundamentals as an option makes for a more diversified team. I used the Dodgers as an example because they are not primarily a small ball team, but when the situation presents itself they can do it.
…and fans can and will disagree with “so-called” experts.
I never said sacrifice bunts or even small ball. I said smart baseball.
There are situations where the sac bunt still makes sense to me, especially in the NL with pitchers batting and men on first and second. Of course, ability to bunt is also required.
If by small ball you mean putting the ball in play rather than swinging for the fence every single at bat regardless of situation? Then I guess I am for small ball. But that wasn’t/isn’t really what I was going for with the comment.
Anthony Rizzo chokes up with two strikes bc doing so gives him a slightly better chance of putting the ball in play in a defensive count. I think that’s smart baseball. You don’t need to be a scientist to know that more things can happen from a ball in play than the alternative (striking out.)
Analysts analyze – good for them. They can also choose the stats upon which to base their findings. Baseball is not 100% objective. In my opinion.
@Sherm623. Absolutely. It’s funny how every frustrated fan has the same complaints about their team, but it’s really a baseball-wide issue. It’s frustrating seeing 3 straight hitters popping up trying to hit a homer with a runner in scoring position instead of just getting the runner over, but that’s modern baseball everywhere.
@VPH I am not a fan of the three true outcome strategy, despite what analysts might spew. Since when is a line drive double not an outcome? SMH
There was zero chance Alvarez was talked about in any trades with the Cubs for those rental players. Unlikely it was Mauricio or Baty either. I’d guess possibly Vientos.
I’m kind of surprised Alvarez isn’t up already. Are Mazeika and Sisco both better than he is today?
He’s too young and green. No reason to rush him now.
Wow. He has one year in Rookie ball under his belt. For catchers it’s not just the bat, more importantly calling a game and handling a pitching staff on the field. A lot of development needed in that area as well.
For What? Mets season is done! That huge flushing sound you hear coming from appropriately enough Flushing, NY is the Same Old Mets season going down. LOL
@ bklynny67 I don’t have a crystal ball but I’m pretty sure the Mets are gonna sign Baez and keep the middle infield intact for a few more years. That being said…..it’ll be sad if they don’t address their horrible approach to hitting. They score just enough to lose.
What does the term “top prospect” mean exactly? Based on the article I’m guessing it’s top 5-10 for the team but it’s not clear. Take the two words definitions “top” and “prospect” combined you might come to the conclusion it meant number one prospect. Based off this article however I’d have to assume in baseball terms “top prospect” is a broader term?
Yes, generally the term means more like “amongst the top” rather than the actual top prospect.
I was hoping Yankees were able to get Hendricks in the package for Rizzo. Is Hendricks the only player off limits on the Cubs roster? After Mets traded away Kelenic I was surprised they got rid of PCA. Is PCA not as highly regarded as Kelenic?
PCA is damaged goods after injuring his shoulder and his future career is very much adversely affected now.
No one is off limits, but I recall Hoyer saying that they weren’t actively shopping Hendricks. I hope the Cubs hang on to him; he will probably age well with his pitching style.
PCA was nowhere near as highly regarded as Kelenic even before the injury. Still an awful trade. Baez adds nothing and he’s gone at the end of the year anyway.
You keep saying he’s damaged goods. He has a torn labrum on his non throwing arm.
It’s not an injury that has been shown to negatively affect hitters after surgery, and again, it’s his non throwing arm.
He’s temporarily damaged as he recovers from surgery, yes. But 3-4 years down the road no one is even going to remember he had this
The problem is I don’t believe Baez will be gone. He was brought in to be Lindor’s BFF and Cohen will open up his wallet for him since he is now Lindor’s B***ch. LOL
The Mets are not going to give Baez his desired 8+ years at 200 million or more
The whole idea that the Mets are going to tie up more than 550+ million to 2 average hitting SS is frankly dumb, and I am shocked anyone even entertains it
I keep hearing PCA is damaged. Just rumors really but there’s gotta be a reason they gave him up for virtually nothing.
So instead of trying to mitigate the impending issue with DeGrom the Mets front office made a lesser deal to pacify the fan base. Interesting. In conclusion, the Mets front office did not believe in the team without Jacob, but wanted to keep the fan base happy enough to keep buying tickets.
YES and to make Lindor Happy since Team Chemistry is most important at the Country Club.
@Robrock30
What does “Country Club” entail/mean?
Grey Matter,
The Mets since Wilpons became 50% Owners right after ’86 WS Championship started weeding out the bad guys ( Kevin Mitchell, Dykstra, McDowell, Ray Knight ) and to them it was the choir boys that they wanted ( David Wright ) or bland guys ( Kevin McReynolds ). There is no accountability as long as the Team makes $ and the Players are good for PR. Good chemistry is rewarded while performance is secondary.
@Robrock30
I can’t remember who coined this phrase but
“Give me 24 @ssholes and I’ll give you a championship team”
Does anyone think there is a chance the Mets could get back in the race? Their losses have been very close and maybe Lindor/Baez put them over the edge? Just curious what people think
@No big deal
It’s tough to think that the way they’ve failed hitting with RISP would change with those two in the line-up. Sure there would be a lot more energy which could result in a few more wins but it also will not diminish ATL/Phil winning their games.
There needs to be a change in both hitting AND pitching approach.
I still hope for the best but time is just too short…..
The other problem is strength of schedule
As of the 16th, this is the number of games the 3 teams had against the worst teams in the game
Mets – 8
Braves – 14
Phillies- 24
The Mets had an easier schedule early and are now facing their hard portion. During the easier schedule, the Mets pitching over performed. Now that they’ve gotten into their harder stretch, the pitching has crashed back to reality. Meanwhile the two teams ahead of them are both entering much easier stretches.
This collapse isn’t even really one, the team merely appeared to be better than they were because of circumstances and a bit of luck. It was only a matter of time until the other teams started facing easier competition and took the lead
Side note, Lindor has always been a much worse hitter with Men On & RISP (career 832 OPS empty, 803 runners on, 768 RISP) so it is unlikely he would fix the teams biggest issue there. Baez is extremely neutral splits (772, 777, 773) but not a good hitter overall. Neither should be expected to produce more than a roughly 100 OPS+, which will not be that much of an upgrade over the McNeil/Villar tandem that has been filling the spots during their injuries
Mets and Phillies are both done. Barring more terrible injuries to the Braves, this division is in the bag. Mets will win some games against the Nats and Marlins, but I don’t think the gap closes all that much. Phillies will get better once Hoskins and Eflin comeback, but again, they aren’t deep enough to close this gap. Stats were telling us this was coming all year. Even when the Mets were in first, run differential and records against winning team pointed to the Mets being worse than their record showed, and the Braves being better. Hot teams can steal a wildcard, but in 162 games, the team who is supposed to win the division always does.
Mets are done but Phils have a very easy schedule so I think they still have a chance.
Phillies tend to play down to their opponent. For example they have a winning record against the Braves and a losing record against the Pirates and Diamondbacks.
It makes me wonder why they traded for Baez, if they knew that DeGrom was not returning.