The Kyle Schwarber journey has been a rollercoaster over the past couple of years. It was fairly steady from 2017 to 2019, as he was in a groove as the Cubs’ regular left fielder, playing at least 129 games and hitting at least 26 home runs each year. His wRC+ was between 103 and 119 in each of those three campaigns. 2020, however, went in a completely different direction. Over 59 games in the shortened season, Schwarber’s slash line was a meager .188/.308/.393, producing a wRC+ of just 89. There was reason to think it was a fluke, however, as his BABIP on the season was .219, well below his previous campaigns. Nonetheless, the Cubs decided to move on from Schwarber by declining to tender him a contract for his final year of arbitration control, sending the lefty away from the organization that selected him fourth overall in the 2014 draft.
He then went on to have arguably the best season of his career in 2021, between Washington and Boston. He slashed .266/.374/.554, en route to a wRC+ of 145, easily a personal best. His 3.1 fWAR was just slightly below the 3.2 he produced in 2018, though he played 24 more games that season compared to 2021. Based on that excellent campaign, Schwarber is sure to decline his half of the $11MM mutual option for 2022 that was part of his deal with the Nationals, taking the $3MM buyout instead and heading to the open market in search of a big payday.
But could the Red Sox sign him and bring him back? Schwarber tells Alex Speier of The Boston Globe that he’s open to it. “It’d be pretty stupid not to think about [returning],” said Schwarber. “My team here has been unbelievable. … If they feel like they would like to talk about [a new deal], I’d be all ears. I just think it would be stupid to ‘X’ someone off for no reason. Especially for a place like this, I’d be all ears.”
As Schwarber astutely points out, it would be silly for a free agent to eliminate any potential bidders for their services, especially publicly. So, it’s not terribly surprising for him to say he’s interested in returning. However, it would make for a potentially awkward fit. Schwarber was moved from his usual corner outfield position to first base with Boston, due to the Red Sox already having Enrique Hernandez, Alex Verdugo, Hunter Renfroe and J.D. Martinez on hand as outfield options. The switch wasn’t without hiccups, as Schwarber made a few obvious flubs in his time at first, and defensive metrics seemed aligned in their disapproval of his initial attempts at the position.
Although there is the designated hitter slot to think of, Speier’s piece says that Martinez is unlikely to opt out of the final year of his contract, meaning that bringing Schwarber back would give the club two bat-first players with defensive limitations. With Hernandez, Verdugo and Renfroe also coming back for 2022, it will still be difficult to make all the puzzle pieces fit. Schwarber will be one of the premier corner outfield options in this winter’s free agent market, meaning he should get plenty of interest without having to continue the first base experiment.
The Red Sox, for their part, could also turn to more-seasoned options at first, with Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo and Brandon Belt being the top names available. They could also let Bobby Dalbec have the position for now, as he’s been productive in his major league time so far. There’s also Triston Casas to think about. He’s considered a top-20 prospect in all of baseball, according to FanGraphs, Baseball America and MLB Pipeline. He finished 2021 in Triple-A and could soon force his way onto the big league roster. But a reunion between Schwarber and the Red Sox can’t be ruled out, as the slugger himself adds, “This is definitely a clubhouse that I could see myself wanting to stay in. These guys are amazing,” he said. “This is a World Series clubhouse, and I would love to hopefully see if that opportunity comes back.”
The Red Sox could have room for Schwarber from a financial standpoint as their current payroll for 2022 sits just under $160MM, per Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. Their opening day payroll in 2021 was just north of $180MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. However, the Red Sox could use their resources to address things besides first base, such as a pitching staff that is seeing Eduardo Rodriguez, Adam Ottavino and Hansel Robles head into free agency.
Sorry, other teams. If you need an outfielder this off-season, scratch Eddie Rosario off your options.
Good point. I heard he was hanging up his spikes to chase his life long dream of deep sea bass fishing
Of course Schwarber is saying he’d like to return, it’s part of negotiating for a free agent contract. Even if he hated being in Boston, he would still use the Red Sox to try and get them into a bidding war.
Has there EVER been an instance when a free agent MLB player said he DIDN’T want to return?
Mookie Betts pretty much as well as Jon Papelbon.
I specified any free agent player, which means PRIOR to his departure. None of the players I’ve seen mentioned here ruled out re-signing with the same team.
Mookie was traded, he never said he didnt want to stay with Boston prior to being traded.
Same thing with Clemens, Boggs, Vaughn … they wanted to stay, but for their price. Boggs wasn’t wanted because he had a horrible final season in Boston and the Sox had what they thought was a suitable replacement.
Actually the only Red Sox player I can recall that wanted to leave was Manny, but he wasn’t a free agent … he wanted to be traded.
Mookie said on multiple occasions he would never resign with Boston, which is why they traded him. Were you hiding under a rock during all this time? He also said he would 100% test free agency “no matter what” and as soon as he was traded, he did not test free agency…he signed a long term deal with the Dodgers.
Plain and simply, he wanted out bad and made it perfectly clear he wanted out. Just sayin’.
Mookie did not want to stay in Boston. He never said he didn’t want to be in Boston, but he never said he wanted to stay. Thats just smart negotiating. What he did say while in Boston, was he would not negotiate until he hit FA. As soon as he got to LA, and before FA, he negotiated and signed a long-term deal. Actions speak louder than words. As to his intentions, while in Boston, his silence was deafening.
popgun – Show me even just ONE DIRECT QUOTE of Mookie saying that prior to when he was traded.
Meanwhile, I’ll put the ridiculous Mookie-hates-Boston rumors to bed really quick.
Here’s an article about 7 months prior to Mookie being traded:
masslive.com/redsox/2019/07/mookie-betts-boston-re…
Rumors persisted Betts did not want to sign an extension with Boston because he didn’t want to play here. But the superstar told MassLive.com last July that any assertions he didn’t like it in Boston or didn’t want to be in Boston were inaccurate.
“It’s completely wrong,” Betts said. “I’ve loved it here. I love the front office, my teammates, coaches. Everybody. It’s been nothing but amazing here. Just because you go to free agency doesn’t mean you don’t want to be somewhere. It’s just a part of the business.”
whyhayzee – I’m gonna drop some knowledge that most people here, maybe even everyone here, doesn’t know: Mookie had a number in mind that he absolutely wanted, $30M/yr for at least 12 years. If the Sox had offered that to him, he would have stayed in Boston.
How do I know that?
In January 2019 the Sox offered $300M/10 years
The annual salary was satisfactory to him, but he wanted at least 2 more years..
So he countered with $420M/12 years
What is the difference? $120M
And if you split the difference, something that is common in negotiations?
$360M over 12 years
And how much did he get from the Dodgers?
$365M over 12 years
So there ya go. If the Sox had split the difference, Mookie would have signed for $5M less than what he got from LA.
So let’s please put all this “Mookie hates the Red Sox” BS rumors to rest, which were probably started by people with ulterior motives.
Generally speaking, my sales guys sign the contracts these days. But over the years, I have signed thousands of them.
In all those “specific” instances, I have never had a negotiation follow that template. Neither in exactness or generalities, @FPGuy. Now, I’m merely signing building deals – not baseball one’s. But – in my experience – most deals are not nearly that linear. Even little 5 figure one’s, man. Let alone contracts of that magnitude.
Fwiw.
so what. Since the trade Verdugo has been pretty much his equal in production for a MUCH longer figure not to mention the other 2 scrubs the Dodgers tossed in.
Mookie is a class act, of course he’s not going publicly bash the organization. Especially while he was still playing for them. He was classy enough not do so so when the Sox low balled him $3mm in his arbitration case. But I’m sure that had nothing to do with him not wanting to stay in Boston. The dude is adamant about testing free agency while with the Sox, gets traded out of Boston and then signs an extension with LA before he becomes a free agent.
Ducky – So you’re saying the buyer doesn’t start out offering less than what he’s willing to pay, while the seller doesn’t start out with a price that’s higher than what he’s willing to accept? Followed by each moving closer toward common ground?
Ohhhh …. you must be a government contractor. Got it ;O)
Dickie – You started out great, especially bringing up the bitter arbitration battle he had with the team. But then you lost me.
Saying that he wants to test free agency was a negotiation ploy, nothing more.
Because logically, he wouldn’t have engaged in negotiations with the Sox back in 2019 … negotiations in which he gave a counteroffer.
If Mookie truly had no desire to sign any contract prior to free agency, he wouldn’t have responded to the Sox offer with a counteroffer.
I really think the Red Sox fans who are now Mookie haters need to come to grips with reality.
And reality is, the Sox weren’t willing to go beyond 10 years … and Mookie wasn’t willing to accept less than 12 years.
Can’t blame either side. Each did what they should have done, and Mookie made the right decision because he ultimately got what he wanted.
Time will tell if the Red Sox made the right decision.
For sure it’s a process.
There was just a lot of inference & assumption with how you arrived at that exact specific number. I can’t recall a single instance of landing at an exact midway point. On specific points? Sure. In totality? Nah. Never.
It seemed you were implying rather certainly that he left $5 mil on the table.
Nope.
We don’t have a union company. I wouldn’t want one. Hate those guys & I build circles around them. Anyway: no guaranteed contracts of any type for us, man. Gotta go get our jobs. & then we have to live up to our side fully.
Considering it was a year earlier, it would have made sense for him to take the $360M instead of $365M. He could have gotten injured in 2019 or had a terrible season.
Also could consider it a hometeam discount. It’s not much when you consider the total contract amount, but enough to compensate for familiarity with the area/teammates/front office and not having to uproot and move the family cross country where everything would be unfamiliar.
Mookie said the right words but his actions always showed he had no desire to stay long term. That said, I don’t blame him for signing once the Dodgers offered him more than what any other team would likely have. Yes it was during the season but the world being in the middle of a pandemic changed everything. There simply was not one player if put in his position who wouldn’t have signed that guaranteed deal.
Fever. Mookie was always a smart negotiator. When asked, he always answered with $$ in mind. To have taken Boston out of the equation made no sense even if most of us knew the team was tax wise not in a position to have matched the Dodgers.
Imagine the Sox roster this past year if Mookie and Price took about $40m of it.
Mookie likely paid for health insurance. Fever, remember Mookie bet on himself every year forcing the team to roll the dice in arbitration where a player like Mookie gets paid regardless of the most prior year. He had an amazing 2018 but 2017 and 19 were superior in the field but not as good at the plate. Mookie as a Red Sox before the pandemic was 100% sure going to test free agency in part because he planned it years earlier and in part because Boston was simply not in a position after 2020 to pay him. The team knew he would not take any offer they made so they saved face by supposedly offering $300m. Go back and read the blogs herrin after the 2018 series was won. Many fans said it and many others knew it but didn’t want to acknowledge that he was gone once he made it to free agency. If the team was going to seriously try to ink him again, they would have made roster moves to free up money.
dewey – Mookie’s contract wasn’t signed during the season, it was signed right before the season.
His actions always reflected one thing – get paid as much as possible. He would have done the exact same things if he came up with any other organization.
When others before him like Harper and Machado signed their monster contracts, Mookie said they should have gotten more. That’s just his mentality.
Considering how much money was wasted on other players who clearly didn’t deserve it (ie: Panda, Hanley) can you blame him for wanting top dollar when he was arguably the second-best position player in MLB?
Signing the largest position player contract in history during an unprecidented period of uncertaintly does not necessarily reflect any particular disposition toward his previous team. Saying it does says a lot more about the lengths you will go to contort facts to fit your narrative than it does about Mookies thoughts.
I loved Mookie in Boston but he’s overrated as good as he is. I’m not a metrics guy. Using my eyes,JDM was my 18 MVP. Contract was signed in July. You are correct due to the delayed start but you get the idea. He never tested free agency. Lastly, your simply wrong in my opinion when you say others left money on the table. From whom? Harper took extras years that lowered the AAV and MM is a knucklehead who was is overpaid as it is. Bogaerts accepted less for his reasons but the opt out changes things. With the tax system in place if you want to win, sometimes you look at a bigger picture. Personally, I don’t consider 2020 a real championship. If LA wins another, people will forget the 60 game season. if that’s Mookie’s only title, it will always be remembered. just my belief.
Mookie said he would test the free agent market no matter what. He never said he would never sign in Boston. He played hard ball on the negotiations. Boston called his bluff and dealt him. There were a few articles about this after he was dealt because he was pissed they dealt him and didn’t offer him a contract. The Sox look really smart now. 12 years and $365 million for a guy with these numbers:
baseball-reference.com/players/b/bettsmo01.shtml
He has only 4 HRs and a .272 BA for 51 post season games.
FPG – I believe DD signs him if ownership doesn’t balk at the money and there is another ring by now. Oh well, can’t change the past and with Bloom you can’t fix the future until he’s gone.
ONE minor correction on your Mookie deal. $360M for 12 I believe would have gotten him but the timing of the money is huge from a Net Present Value perspective. The $65M in 2020 significantly improves the NPV of his deal in LA. No reason the rich owners of the Red Sox couldn’t have done something similar but they didn’t.
Mookie has a savvy financial guy in his corner. Much more savvy than anything the Red Sox have.
Good job on the numbers.
Fever Pitch: This negotiation is your painting is utter BS. You say “how do I know this” then proceed to ZERO information on how you would know that. Because you dont. You make stuff up just to sound like a person in the know, but its make believe.
kD, we don’t normally see eye to eye. If DD signed him, the team would have not beenn able to resign others. They spent that money believing Mookie was not interested in staying unless he got every last penny. Team is better off as a whole this way. Remember, the Dodgers hadn’t won in a long time and had the payroll flexibility Boston didn’t have.
denny – If I can somehow, someway come up with a link to a source that proves both amounts I provided – $300M/10 Red Sox offer to Mookie, and his $420/12 counteroffer – will you agree to disappear from here until the 2023 regular season begins?
Please say yes, for the benefit of all.
Dewey – Mookie’s incremental cost was $9M per year at most. The $48M paid to LAD in the Price portion of the deal would have covered over 5 years of Mookie’s incremental cost so obviously they had the money to pay Mookie. Not to mention DD’s plan saw the payroll drop significantly in 2022 and then even more in 2023. The only tight year was 2020 after that there was to be tons of money to build around Mookie.
The team is not better off without Betts. The talent level is depleted significantly. Boston had the financial flexibility to keep Mookie but chose not to. $10M in luxury tax in 2020 would have been the max amount they paid to keep Mookie. That amount is a pittance compared to their annual profits.
The Dodgers and Yankees are constantly working above the luxury tax line due to their huge profits. Boston’s profits are less but are still close to a third of a billion per year. There is no money shortage in baseball and Boston as a large market team can exceed the luxury tax yearly and still make 100s of millions of profits. That’s why the luxury tax doesn’t work!! LAD and NYY have already proven that it is not a detterent to spending and all the other large market teams should do the same to stay competitive. A hard cap is needed but until it happens the big market teams have a choice of letting the owners take maximized profits or the team being able to compete for a ring. Boston for 20 years tried to win rings now they are simply maximizing ownership profits.
Having the players play way over their heads fuels ownership’s desire for great profits rather than rings because 2021 proved with a lot of luck you can maximize profits and keep the fan base happy. Except for those who want to win rings and recognize the talent level is too low to win rings. I am going to complain until the talent level is restored to the 2018 level or greater. Why? Because without that restoration there are no rings in the future.
And just as I thought, Denny ran off without responding. He knows he was a damn fool to accuse me of “making stuff up” but he won’t man-up and admit it so he hightailed his way outta here. Can’t stand the type of person who shoots off their mouth and then runs.
Schwarber is a local guy from Waltham, of course he’s happy
Schwarber is from Middletown, Ohio. He was born there and graduated from high school there.
Mick – There’s a story behind the Waltham thing, Google it.
No he’s from Waltham. His nickname is literally “Kyle from Waltham.” Read a book!
The first Google result on a search for “Kyle from Waltham” is an article that literally says verbatim that he “is from Ohio.”
There’s an entire book on this?
Ohio is in Waltham, Massachusetts. It’s forbidden knowledge, not something you Americans would learn in public school
Yes there is a book and it’s called “My Name is Kyle Schwarber and I Was Born and Raised in Waltham, Massachusetts”
iknoweverything – You must be using Google Alt, the censored version.
The uncensored version of Google comes up with all the same headlines. Kyle bought a ton of food for the Waltham FD & PD, and the name he used when ordering was “Kyle from Waltham”..
I’m from Waltham. Schwarber is not from Waltham. The Celtics used to practice in Waltham until they got a new facility in Brighton.
Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, and Mo Vaughn. Not singling-out the RS but these were high-profile guys that had a riff with the front office and took out local full-page memos to thank fans after they departed.
YBC – Exactly! In all three instances the front office didn’t value them as much as they should have. But none of them said they wanted to leave. Same with Damon, Ellsbury, etc
Vaughn I agree but Clemons seemed done until he found PEDS. I too was not high on paying Lester and admit I was wrong but Els and Damon? The Sox had replacements ready or soon to be and didn’t think either was worth the bucks. No one can argue about Els and he was the one who replaced Damon. Biggs was the big mistake. Even though he was aging, he should have only played for one team. That supposed replacement was Scott Cooper not that other PED guy (Bagwell). He
Also: Matt Holiday & Oakland.
Remember his one team no-trade clause with the Yanks?
I remember Griffey Jr. saying he wouldn’t play for the Yankees.
Brian Wilson did too.
He’s the go-to (read: only) example of how the Yanks grooming policy ever was an issue signing free agents. Whatever. Dude looked like a hobo.
But Holiday is the only guy I remember saying pretty much, “well anywhere but here” about his current team. For whatever reason, he hated it there. When we signed him, he insisted on a NTC of one team: the A’s.
Yankees dodged a bullet on Wilson.
I do remember David Price saying he wouldn’t shave but he was still like a year away from free agency.
Yup.
My bad. Price made a big deal about it too.
George kicked him out of the clubhouse when his dad played. Jr. holds a grudge longer than my wife!!
Of course Price wouldn’t shave.
With his thin skin, he’d be bleeding all over the place from all the nicks.
Unfortunately Springer told the Astros he was not resigning with them.
I thought Springer indicated he wanted to play up north but I thought it was a face saving move after the team signed Bregman and Altuve. No one expected they could re-sign each of their core four.
dewey – All I’ve seen is “Springer has kept his desires under wraps”.
While the thought of playing close to his home state of CT was appealing to him, he never said he refused to consider returning to Houston.
It’s amazing how so many people take rumors and unsupported claims from writers etc as gospel. Unless I see a direct quote from George that he refused to play for the Astros anymore, I won’t believe anything else.
He either mentioned moving closer to home or had his agent do it. That was out there. I don’t feel he wanted to end up in Toronto especially with them then not having a home and no idea then when Toronto would be allowed to host games but he limited suiters. I believe if Houston was in the mix, he would have stayed.
Orlando Cabrera with the White Sox comes to mind. Most recently in the NFL Le’Veon Bell said he would never play for Andy Reid or the Chiefs.
But generally speaking you are correct, most players aren’t going to burn their bridges before making it across. I hope Schwarber stays. We need another power bat and there are plenty of AB’s to be had between LF/1B/DH even if J.D. Martinez stays
Long time now but Darryl strawberry said he was only playing for dodgers while still playing with Mets.
“Has there EVER been an instance when a free agent MLB player said he DIDN’T want to return?”
Are you joking? yes.
Whether we can all agree or not, @FPG started a great conversation. This is what I come to MLBTR’s comments for.
YBC – Thank you, I appreciate it.
Maaaaaaaaaaan Eddie Rosario was this past off-season’s best pickup. I was shocked he was non-tendered. He’s always been pretty good smh
These stories get ridiculous. Of course any free agent is going to say he’s open to any team for obvious negotiation reasons
I guess a casual fan appreciates the sentiment of “wow Schwarber really likes us”
Please complain about free articles
After hearing “player x is open to team x” over and over, I fail to see the point of even bothering, except for maybe giving the casual fan a feel good moment
The post is expanding on an article in the Boston Globe, a paper i don’t read and don’t have access to. Mlbtr is just reporting on an article in a major newspaper. Now the author of the original piece may be giving his opinion more than anything, but all this site is doing is expanding/regurgitating that info into a new post for us to read.
I think the point is these topics (whether here or somewhere else) are pointless. What? Is the player going to say, “I don’t want to come back to [blank]?”
They are all platitudes and automatic comments.
He did.
So if it’s free it’s a no complaint zone? Can we still complain about the weather? What a maroon. Ahahahahaha!
Funny how these players are always open to huge market teams with unlimited money.
True, but I’d rather have an article like this to read over no article at all. This piece isn’t just about a free agent’s willingness to resign with a team, it is an assessment of his production and value over the past few seasons as he enters the market.
The “Correa open to talks with Dodgers” stories/tweets will be good for a laugh
Unfortunately Springer told the Astros he was not resigning with them.
Astros fan here, I think Correa signs with the Yankees or Rangers for 10 years 350 million. Just north of what Lindor signed for (10 year 341 million).
Gives us something to BS about while we watch football too.
I think Gerrit Cole was the exception. He wasn’t returning to the Astros. There was only 1 destination for him that obviously was the Yankees. Who broke the bank for him.
Freeman ain’t going nowhere but ATL unless LAA offers him a ton of $$$$$ as that is where he grew up and might have a desire to play for childhood team.
I’m starting to think California for Freddie but SD and LA seem blocked and LAA have huge contracts. So SF?
That would be a mighty swing for SF, but they do have availability at 1B
“Freeman ain’t going nowhere”
======================================
I hate articles where they mention things that are theoretically possible, but have almost a -0- chance of happening.
The chances of Bloom signing a 1B to a multi-year $15-20M/year contract, when he has Dalbec, Devers, and Casas on the horizon, is about 0%.
Joe – I fully agree. Like when the articles in July said the Red Sox are “in the mix” for Scherzer. There was zero chance.
Erod and Schwarber i want back. Id like to see upgrades over ottavino who I like and Robles who I can’t stand
Ottavino was the most puzzling to me. Dude was fantastic for a long while, going 3 days short of a year without giving up a dinger, then he gives up six in just sixteen games.
I’m wondering if it’s because of the way he was used. He could be one of those guys who needs regular work to stay sharp. He faced only 15 batters over the final 3 weeks of the season, how can that NOT affect his game?
The Red Sox kind of pulled a yankees. They probably overused their reliable guys. Eventually they run out of steam. Eovaldi, Houck and Whitlock, Pivetta and Erod, they were all hands on deck at the end. Some good performances, some not so good. I was surprised at how Barnes fell off the cliff but there might be a reason we don’t know about. Ottovino as well.
There’s nothing wrong with Barnes except location, which I assume is mechanics based. Velocity, spin rate, all those types of things have not changed. There is nothing stopping him from being the pitcher he was the first half of 2021 except his head and some work — that is not to say he is going to get there, but it would not be a surprise if he returned to form.
I think it was a combination of Covid and getting part of his thumb cut off that prevented Barnes from getting back into form. I think and hope he’ll be fine next year.
whyhayzee
The Red Sox kind of pulled a yankees. They probably overused their reliable guys.
=====================================
Yup, and the fact that all we had in Aug/Sept were guys that were ‘reliable’. We obviously had no closer, but we also didn’t have a setup guy. All we had at the end was a lefty, a righty to clean up anything left over by the lefty, Whitlock or Houck for an inning or two, and then we had to wing it.
That good enough to consistently win, but not good enough against a team like Houston.
At this point, Ottavino needs to kind of be protected. That slider can be doom on certain types of RH bats. But he can get absolutely destroyed relatively quickly if you are not judicious with his use/quick with the hook when he’s hangin’ ’em or can’t get them over the plate.
He’s a good 4th-6th guy in a ‘pen.
But counting on more from him when he was a Yankee became untenable. Honestly, I’d be good with seeing him back & used like O’day was. Nothing more than that though.
I would also like to see ERod and Schwarber back, but for how many years and at what AAV? That is the tricky question. I think Bloom will at least make them 2-3 year offers.
I don’t see the Red Sox and Schwarber lining up on the number of years. If JD doesn’t opt out, that certainly seals Schwarber’s departure. If JD does opt out–because he’ll stand a better chance at a multi-year contract at age 35 rather than 36–then Schwarber becomes a half-time DH possibility (1B and maybe some LF the rest of the time). But the path must be clear for Casas at 1B starting late 2022.
Why? JD has one more year so they could still sign Schwarber on a multi year deal and use him between 1st, DH, and Left before slotting him into a mostly DH role after JDMs contract ends.
Good point about Casas.
Because every team has a limited amount of money to play with (like 55 mil before capping for the Red Sox), If you are going to sign as big a contract as Schwarber will command, why not sign Marcus Semien who would likely match Schwarber’s offensive output but would fill the one real ? in the 2022 Red Sox position players. (Personally, I think Arroyo could man 2B full time, but he is a definite question mark). The bonus is that Semien could slide to shortstop if Xander opts out after 2022, which to me is a lot harder hole to fill than JD’s. Only way they sign Schwarber is if JD opts out.
And, to those suggesting the Red Sox sign Freddie Freeman or any other 1st baseman, it is not happening. The combination of Dalbec and Casas at 1B has its own question marks, but is one that Bloom or any smart GM will roll the dice with every time.
I have a feeling both will be gone next year. ERod is still pitcher who shows an immense upside but can’t consistently show the upside. In other words, high risk and my guess is there will be a handful of teams that will outbid Boston in money and years.
Schwarber is likely tied to Martinez’s decision and my guess is Martinez takes the bird in the hand.
JD had a very bad experience with free agency the last time! Add the CBA negotiation to free agency, and I can see JD opting in unless the CBA is settled very quickly.
The White Sox could certainly use a high OBP/SLG left-handed potential free agent bat like Kyle Schwarber or Joc Pederson in their predominantly right-handed hitting lineup. They could also slot either into a corner OF spot, likely RF, and/or as their primary DH versus RHP. The ChiSox do have other internal options for those same positions but only Gavin Sheets bats left-handed.
If the White Sox do explore the trade market this offseason to add an impacting second baseman like Ketel Marte or some additional pitching depth they will likely move some of that young internal surplus, perhaps considering the inclusion of a bat first but defensively challenged player like Andrew Vaughn or even Eloy Jimenez into such a package.
Don’t see them moving Eloy. He signed an extension so he’s locked up for a long time and showed improved defense after his lengthy DL stay. Vaughn improved at the plate as the season went on and played an average left field. A big surprise given that he was a first baseman by trade. I could see him being moved as he really has no fit on the roster the way it’s currently constructed. The idea was for Jose to be the primary DH with Vaughn at first. Does not appear to be that Jose likes to ride the pines. Eloy as well would rather prove him self worthy as a left fielder than DH.
The White Sox won’t trade a potential generational hitting talent like Eloy Jimenez or even Andrew Vaughn unless they were involved in a deal for another impacting controllable type player at a position of need. This is why I brought up the name of Ketel Marte who could slot into one of the two positions the White Sox have an opening at, 2B or RF.
My preference would be to hang on to both Jimenez and Vaughn and pursue free agent options like Marcus Semien for 2B and the two corner OF options I mentioned in the first comment. There will still come a point in time in the very near future where the front office will have to move some of their internal surplus at the corner INF and OF positions for lack of lineup and roster space. These names in addition to Jimenez and Vaughn would include young MLB talent like Gavin Sheets and Jake Burger to say nothing of a couple of advanced AAA prospects who are currently taking up 40-man roster spots and are running out of option years.
You can’t call Joc high OBP
Joc Pederson and Kyle Schwarber each have comparably high OBP’s in relation to their generally low career BA’s. Joc has a .232/.332/.462 triple slash while ‘Schwarbs’ sits at .237/.343/.493. Increases in their BA’s in individual seasons have also come (naturally) with a corresponding spike in their OBP’s. Schwarber has generated a bit more power in his career while Pederson offers better defensive flexibility with a more proven defensive track record in RF along with his ability to play CF if needed. Both have had success in the postseason which is something the White Sox need going forward.
OK, didn’t the White Sox just lose a playoff series because they didn’t run the bases, can’t hit cutoff men, stop the other teams baserunners, prevent wild pitches, and all the little things that win games?????
Kyle Schwarber and Joc Pederson are exact duplications of exactly what is wrong with the team.
A team with eight DHs, no defensive catcher and an overall low baseball IQ is fun to watch from April to September……_but incredibly tough to watch in October for only a few games.
It’s fairly evident from my comments that the White Sox would need to subtract from their current glut of “eight DHs” in order to bring on one of the lefty bats. The only 2B I mentioned, FA Marcus Semien and Diamondback Ketel Marte (also a RF) would certainly improve the athletic profile of a White Sox team that already features CF Luis Robert, SS Tim Anderson and 3B Yoan Moncada among it’s regulars.
Your statement about the White Sox having “no defensive catcher and an overall low baseball IQ” is silly. Yasmani Grandal is among the top-3 catchers in MLB and is certainly no slouch behind the dish per most any traditional or advanced analytic measure. Baseball IQ generally increases with experience and has been evident with the likes of Jose Abreu and TA7 who have spent their entire professional careers with the White Sox. The team also features a cadre of Cubans, each of whom have played baseball as a sport almost exclusively since they began walking. It’s akin to Canadiens learning to skate and play hockey as children.
The article goes beyond Schwarber’s saying he’s open to returning. The main thrust is that the Red Sox will probably look elsewhere either to pitching or a more accomplished first basemen. Brandon Belt would thrive in Fenway.
BOS is actually perfect for Belt since Dalbec will still get his 200-300 ABs while Belt inevitably lands on the IL.
No thank you. Belt is a guy who lives on the IL.
Schwarber’s potential return is likely tied to if JD Martinez decides to stay or leave. I don’t see them paying for both.
Exactly, if JD opts out than Schwarber is considerable, if not than unlikely. I could see a situation where you trade Dalbec/Verdugo/Renfroe and sign Schwarber with the intention to shift him to DH after JD leaves and Casas arrives, but not sure how likely that is.
No chance Verdugo is traded. Dude is so solid, can play all 3 outfield positions, and is cheap. He’s part of the long term solution.
I think it’s gonna be really hard to predict what happens with Schwarber and the Red Sox, because there’s way too many factors.
If JD opts out and signs elsewhere.
If Renfroe or Verdugo is traded.
If Dalbec is given a chance to take over 1B or if he gets traded.
If Devers gets moved to 1B.
If the Red Sox still project Schwarber as a 1B.
Way too many “ifs”. to make predictions.
Hafta say, Schwarber’s performance in the ALCS was disappointing. Other than the grand salami, he did basically nothing at the plate. And his fielding at 1B was not good, to put it nicely.
No chance Renfroe or Verdugo get traded. I could see Bloom try to flip Dalbec or Duran though
Very much agree that both Dalbec and Duran are strong trade possibilities this offseason. It’s time for a little churn. They desperately need a RH bat who can pound lefties and get this team out of its being regularly stymied by undistinguished LH starters.
Renfroe/Verdugo/Dalbec traded? The three guys that give the most production without costing much, just to sign Schwarber. The three of them combined will cost less than what it will take to re=sign Schwarber. I know your only talking aboutr one of them, but fact is, Red Sox should hold onto cheap assets. That money should be put toward pitching.
Fletcher – if the Sox decide to stick with Duran, they will likely need to leave LF available for either JD or Schwarber or some other external player. And who knows, maybe they’ll want to keep Hernandez in CF.
One way to replenish the farm is to trade talented ML players for prospects, and then sign free agents to replace them. Renfroe had a career year, he could bring back some talent. Dugie regressed this year, didn’t play the field up to expectations, was awful on the basepaths and seemed to be too distracted to work on his game. He’s 26 next season so he’s at a point where they evaluate him and project whether or not there’s the possibility of improvement.
I know both players are very popular, but tough decisions will have to be made.
I don’t think Dalbec or Verdugo or Renfroe are in the mix to be traded at all. One thing that seems clear about Bloom in his short time as GM is that he likes lots of low-cost options. Casas is not a sure thing though he looks very promising. The combination of Dalbec and possibly calling up Casas seems the perfect combo for Chaim. As is the mix of outfielders we have. I think he’d take the substantial 55mil he has to play with this offseason to sign a 2B somewhere between Jose Iglesias and Marcus Semien (sliding Arroyo to full-time infield utility), one high level reliever like Yasiel Iglesias and a bunch of low-cost relief pitchers with potential.
Fever-Almost no chance that either Renfroe or Verdugo get moved.
1-It wasn’t a career year for Renfroe. He was better in 2018 & 2019.
2-I’m not sure Verdugo regressed. Most of the peripherals were okay. His HR/FB decline probably accounted for his OPS decline.
3-Most importantly, we are short on outfielders. In particular, we have no corner OFs on the near horizon. And Bloom is not going to replace an outfielder with control, with an expensive FA.
The one are I see no change in is the OF. It will be Verdugo-Hernandez-Renfroe, with Duran getting some ABs against righties, assuming he isn’t traded.
Were you really surprised about Schwarber hitting in critical situations and his fielding performance?
In the postseason, how far you can hit the ball, is far outweighed by how often you can hit the ball, and as far as his defense, he should give the cow its hide back…..mistake hitter who really can’t play even league average defense wherever you play him.
What one bad series and he’s a terrible Post-Season hitter? Lets take a look:
Career Post-Season: OPS – .899, 110ab, 9hr.
2021 against Yankees: OPS -1.833
2021 against Rays: OPS – .889
2021 against Astros: OPS – .465
Against the Stros was the first series in his career, he’s had an OPS below .760. He can play on my Post-Season roster anytime.
dennyd – I agree. Schwarber’s hitting isn’t the problem. It’s his defense. The Red Sox can’t afford so many sub par fielders.
They must figure a way to put Devers at DH. Otherwise, the FIPs will continue to tell the story of why the Red Sox pitching does so poorly.
I can’t imagine the Red Sox trading Dalbec since his start is faster than Devers’ start and he can field. Unfortunately, I said the same thing about Mookie and Benny as two guys they would never trade early on in their careers so anything is possible.
If the Red Sox didn’t have Devers it would make sense to keep Schwarber as the DH. He’s perfect for Fenway. Two DHs make no sense and living with two dozen errors that count and another dozen or two that never get recorded at 3B is too great a price and has significantly contributed to the Red Sox struggles since 2019. In a tough AL East you can’t have the worst 3B in baseball defensively starting 150 games at 3B.
I also think we are in agreement that ANYONE can have a bad series without being considered a bad post season player. Likewise, ANYONE can have an incredibly hot series and not be considered a far superior player to his normal season numbers. Schwarber is a far superior hitter to Kiki regardless of what may have happened in a very small window.
Let me put things into perspective when it comes to evaluating people based on a small sample size. Kiki is a .250 hitter for the year and his career and he hit .408 in 49 at bats in the post season. The Red Sox trade Andrew Benintendi for having a bad 2020 season which included 39 at bats. Yes, he was shipped out after a full season that totaled 10 less at bats than Kiki got in the 2021 post season.
It was an ill advised move and clearly not based on performance.
Since we tend to disagree most of the time I wanted to point out that we agree on Schwarber.
Is Kike willing to start, but split time between 2B and CF again? This team needs Arroyo insurance in case being injury prone is a long term feature of the player, and ideally, he’d be more of a platoon player who you don’t mind starting if pressed to.
The Red Sox lineup remains very right handed. It’s not the cleanest looking fit, but I don’t agree that there isn’t a potentially good one.
RHP: Schwarber LF, Verdugo CF, Kike 2B —> Arroyo as defensive platoon with Schwarber
LHP: Verdugo/Schwarber LF, or a glove first RH bench OF, Kike CF, Arroyo 2B
I don’t see how you bury Dalbec on the depth chart after his second half. I’d roll with him. Your top prospect plays the same position and is your insurance there.
Come home to Cincinnati.
Well of course, players entering free agency are all about maximizing money so why say no now to any team. He won’t end up in Boston. Most likely Texas
This is a guy we should definitely think about keeping.
Kyle from Waltham
Blue Jays wanted him at the deadline .. I hope they sign him in the offseason, and possibly move off from Gurriel in LF. Would be a great addition imo.
He gone
Schwarber has a good Agents:
Schwarber: “I think I’ll decline the option, and go get more money somewhere. Now give me my 3 million, for declining”.
Baseball has the best Union for its players.
Again, the source for the article is The Boston Globe, an ‘in house” newspaper; it’s owned by the Red Sox. ‘Nuff said. Stories like this serve only to keep the Sox, an especially boring team this year. in the spotlight.
IF JD stays, Schwarber’s probably gone. Meh; he has as many minuses as pluses. No great loss.
Other than pointing out that the Globe is owned by Henry, whats your point? Is there some kind of mislead youre implying because a player says he’s “open to a reunion”. Where’s the conspiracy? Nuff said.
Schwarber had a great 1/2 season with Red Sox, but I see no reason to bring him back. Sox already have too many DH types. Even if JD leaves, I’d like to see Devers inherit DH position and find a 3B with a good glove. Also, pitching, both starting and relief, should be their chief priority. At midseason, Its easy to find a Schwarber or Rizzo, but very expensive to find a starting pitcher.
Devers is a streaky defender, not a bad one. He looked really good there in the playoffs imho.
Even if you disagree, how many 25yo’s are going to respond well to getting moved to DH that early in their careers? That could cost a player of his caliber nine figures down the line.
The Sox need to be smart this offseason. 2023 is the season where they really free up salary and can make some big moves. It really pains me that Boston will still need to pay David Price $16M in 2022. I think Boston will still measure their spending a bit in 2022, with an eye on 2024 when Casas, Downs, Mata & Seabold should all be low-cost contributing members of the team, allowing them to spend more or free agent acquisitions.
What does a contract for him look like? 4/$60?
More like 3/$39 with an opt-out after two years (12/12/15).
I think he goes to Philadelphia to reunite with Kevin Long. High probability of the NL getting the DH if not in 22 then 23, and McCutchen is coming to the end of the road. So a LF/DH/occasional 1B role would be a fit for them, and from afar it looks like the Phillies could use his leadership ability.
I can’t think of a single player in history who has more to gain or lose based on his unions ability to negotiate an agreement.
Defensive liability. You only bring him in as main DH.
Davro – He’s adequate as a corner outfielder. Not his fault Cora kept playing him at 1B.
Below average but his bat makes up for it. Also, a full off-season and spring training dedicated to 1B will serve Schwaber well.
It’s a rare occasion a player is going to say “no, i’m not coming back’. There are only 32 teams out there, and reducing by 1 reduces leverage.
32 teams? Ummm … okay.
Including the Bad News Bears and Coors Silver Bullets?
So what are the Nats, chopped liver?
I guess so.
I don’t see the Red Sox signing Schwarber unless Martinez ops out. They have Dalbec and Casas. They need to focus on the rotation and pen with any savings they are getting back.
This season was a MIRACLE. E-Rod, Pivetta, Perez and Richards as your 2 through 4. Eovaldi was over 175 innings for ONLY the second time in his 10 year career.
They need to start building up behind Sale and Eovaldi. and hopefully find an upgrade for them in the next couple of years.
Goose – AMEN!!! A young high upside left-handed starter to slot between Eovaldi and Houck would be nice!!.
Here is my take on the keepers and those that need to be traded or released
Sale – Keep at $25.6M
Bogaerts – Keep at $20M
JD – Sign and Trade at $22M
Eovaldi – Keep at $17M
Schwarber – Trade at $10M (low number makes him a good value)
Devers – Move to DH at $10.75M
Richards – Release at $10M
Barnes – Trade at $9.375M
Renfroe – Keep at $7.5M
Hernandez – Keep at $7M
Vazquez – Keep at $7M
Perez – Release at $5M
Andriese – Keep at $2.1M
Pivetta – Keep at $3M
Verdugo – Keep at $3M
Plawecki – Keep at $2M
Brasier – Keep at $1.75M
Sawamura – Keep at $1.5M
Arroyo – Keep at $1M
Total $109.2M
Add to these numbers the Bloom mistake on Price of $16M
If JD Barnes and Schwarber can be dealt here is the depth chart:
C – Vazquez and Plawecki
1B – Dalbec
2B – Hernandez
SS – Bogaerts
3B – VACANT
LF – Renfroe
CF – Duran
RF – Verdugo
DH – Devers
SP1 – Sale
SP2 – Eovaldi
SP3 – OPEN
SP4 – Houck
SP5 – Pivetta
SP6 – TBD
SP7 – TBD
CL – TBD
Set-up – Andriese, Sawamora, Brasier
Bench Hitters – Arroyo
Boston will have roughly $65M if they can trade JD, Schwarber and Barnes in hopes of filling gaps above or getting prospects.
A Talent boost in pitching is most needed along with Devers going to DH.
Hope he stays too. Red Sox need a top tier 1B. Haven’t had one since Adrian Gonzalez.
Bradthebluefish – They have one in Dalbec. Are you aware that Dalbec has out hit Devers based on comparing their first 500 at bats in the majors? Everyone keeps complaining about the brightest hitting star in the Red Sox organization.
They need to play Dalbec at 1B or 3B but they need to keep him and play him so he can improve and learn how to adjust to MLB pitchers just like Devers and Mookie did during their first two seasons. Dalbec projects to be as good or better than AGON. Not as high an average but many more home runs. Dalbec is a modern day Tony C. He just needs playing time to learn and improve.
why would the Red Sox sign a 1B when Dalbec had a great year, especially the second half. they should spend on pitching.
“As Schwarber astutely points out, it would be silly for a free agent to eliminate any potential bidders for their services, especially publicly.”
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If you want to have an article on Schwarber, fine. But please, never, ever have another article headlined by ‘XXX open to staying’. As Schwarber himself said, it would be stupid not to be open to staying.
That said, Schwarber is gone. Even if JD opted out, we’d be better off with Devers or Dalbec at DH, and moving Bogaerts to 3rd.
And great trade and all, but the recency factor is overrating Schwarber. He was a career .816 before this year, and got non-tendered by the Cubs. The .816 is a decent number, but not impressive as a DH.
Past that, we have other competing needs.
Joe – Kevin Long totally re-did Schwarber’s batting stance prior to this season. He used to be very upright in the box, now he’s back to squatting down, low crouch with bat on his shoulders, like he did in the early part of his career.
Also depending on how the offseason goes, I think if Xander moves it will be to 2nd base. Years ago they had moved him to 3B for 50 games and it didn’t end well. Dalbec can handle 3B with Devers at 1B.
But really any speculation at this point is kinda futile, way too many things can happen between now and ST.
I like Arroyo at 2nd, and based on Dalbec’s performance at 1st, I wouldn’t be comfortable giving him the 3B position. Bogaerts had almost no experience at 3B when he took over. He’s generally reliable with his hands and throws. He lacks range, but that is really more of a SS issue.
I like Arroyo too, but I need to see him play a full season.
True, but you can’t see him play a full season unless you give him the starting job.
Part of my personal life involves minor gambles/investments in memorabilia. If you wait until you’re sure, then you are likely to be on the wrong side of the curve.
In Arroyo’s case, I’d prefer to stick with what we have, not including Schwarber. To me, that’s:
Verdugo-Hernandez-Renfroe
Dalbec-Arroyo-Bogaerts-Devers.
Vazquez-JDM
If we add Schwarber to that group, it adds a little stability, since neither Dalbec nor Arroyo are sure things.
But that also costs maybe $18M that could be spent on the rotation or BP.. IMO, you’d be trading possible risk in the starting lineup, to almost certain risk in the BP, and likely risk in the rotation.
We have more flexibility than we’ve had in years, but a closer and an SP (ERod or otherwise) will eat up that flexibility really quick.
Well I definitely would not pay big money for a closer, because Barnes has to be given an opportunity to win the job back.
I think whether or not the Sox sign a free agent SP (ERod or someone else) would heavily depend on Whitlock. If he becomes a starter along with Houck, Pivetta, Sale and Eovaldi then that should be a decent rotation. They could always trade for a SP midseason if need be. Personally I wouldn’t bring back Richards or Perez, but I have a feeling one of them will return.
We need more than 5 SPs. Giving both Houck and Whitlock a chance at the rotation is the ‘fair’ thing to do. But the safer thing would be to re-sign ERod, or gamble on Syndergaard, and use Whitlock as the #6/2-inning specialist.
That said, if we use Whitlock in a manner detrimental to his future, hopefully we are more generous than minimum wage.
Joe – I think Seabold will get a very long look next season, perhaps as the #6/2-inning specialist.
He will be 26 next January, they gotta see what they have with him.
I think Seabold will get a look, along with Winckowski.
SP
Sale
Eovaldi
Pivetta
ERod or Syndergaard
Houck
RP
Iglesias
Barnes
Sawamura
Taylor
Hernandez
Whitlock
Brasier
Seabold
Winckowski (if they keep 9 RPs)
Cashman has had a man crush on Schwarber since his rookie year. The Yankees love oft injured OFs. Look for Cashman to give him a $100m contract. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
thecoffinnail – After being embarrassed this past season I think Cashman may go for a more athletic team going forward. That’s not good news for the other teams in the AL East. The four other teams bank of Cashman making blockhead moves and spending too much on non athletic power OFers and too much for lots of relievers but not starters. With all the money available to Cashman if he ever figures out how to acquire good, reliable talent they would own the AL East once again. Until then, the K-Mart special Rays will dominate with a fast charging Toronto Blue Jays team closing the gap quickly. Once Toronto arrives, lookout AL East, a new sheriff will be in town!!
The Red Sox miracle season is over so setting expectations back to where they belong based on talent is necessary. My hope lies in a disastrous 2022 where Baltimore finishes ahead of them, they earn a top 3 draft pick, they fire Cora, they fire Bloom and they hire a proven big market GM to convince ownership to reinvest in their ball club to bring back sustained winning like under DD.