The retirement of franchise legend Buster Posey underscores what a transformative offseason this could be for the Giants, who have lots of available payroll, several roster needs, and an infrastructure that has already produced a 107-win season.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Brandon Crawford, SS: $32MM through 2023
- Evan Longoria, 3B: $24.5MM in 2022 (includes $5MM buyout of $13MM club option for 2023)
- Tommy La Stella, IF: $16.75MM through 2023
- Jake McGee, RP: $3MM through 2022 (includes $500K buyout of $4.5MM club option for 2023)
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projections from MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Dominic Leone – $1.5MM
- Curt Casali – $2.0MM
- Alex Dickerson – $3.0MM
- Darin Ruf – $2.6MM
- Jarlin Garcia – $1.8MM
- John Brebbia – $1.0MM
- Austin Slater – $2.0MM
- Mike Yastrzemski – $3.1MM
- Non-tender candidates: Brebbia, Dickerson
Option Decisions
- Johnny Cueto, SP: $22MM club option for 2022 (declined, Cueto received $5MM buyout)
- Wilmer Flores, IF: $3.5MM club option for 2022 ($250K buyout)
- Jose Alvarez, RP: $1.5MM club option for 2022 ($100K buyout)
Free Agents
- Cueto, Kris Bryant, Brandon Belt, Kevin Gausman, Anthony DeSclafani, Donovan Solano, Alex Wood, Tony Watson, Scott Kazmir, Jose Quintana, Reyes Moronta, Jake Jewell, Tyler Chatwood
The 2021-22 offseason has long been earmarked as the turning point of the Giants’ rebuilding phase. When Farhan Zaidi was hired as the team’s president of baseball operations in November 2018, the consensus was that Zaidi would spend three years adding younger talent and trying to unload as many unwieldy veteran contracts as possible, but since so many of those veteran contracts were up this winter, the decks would be cleared for the team to clearly focus on fielding a contender.
As it happened, the rebuild ended a year early. San Francisco didn’t even entirely bottom out in 2019 (77-85 record) or 2020 (29-31), and then shocked the baseball world by winning 107 games this past year. Of all the great teams in the Giants’ history, the 2021 edition was the first to 107 victories, breaking the old franchise mark of 106 set way back in 1904. After such a season, a first-round playoff exit has to count as a disappointment, especially since the Giants lost to the arch-rival Dodgers in a nail-biter of a five-game NLDS.
However, even though many members of that 2021 roster might not be returning next year, there is already a sense that San Francisco has turned the corner. Zaidi’s front office and the Giants’ coaching staff have done an outstanding job of acquiring lower-cost talent and working with those players to either rediscover past potential or reach new heights on the field, so the potential roster departures may not loom at large for the Giants as they would for most clubs. Now, with loads of extra payroll space to now spend on established star names or even more hidden-gem types, pretty much anything seems to be on the table for the Giants this winter.
Looking at San Francisco’s payroll picture, Roster Resource estimates the team has roughly $74.3MM on the books for 2022 and only $33MM committed beyond this season. Considering how the Giants regularly spent well over the $180MM mark and even paid the luxury tax in each of the 2015-17 seasons, it isn’t a reach to suggest that Zaidi could add around $100MM to next year’s ledger, even if some of that money isn’t spent in the winter and instead saved for another Kris Bryant-esque trade deadline addition.
Zaidi has already stated that the pitching staff if the team’s chief focus, since Kevin Gausman, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, and Johnny Cueto are all free agents. “I would be surprised if we didn’t wind up doing at least one multi-year deal for a starting pitcher,” Zaidi said, while also noting that the Giants would again be looking at less expensive one-year options to help fill these many rotation spots.
The good news is that San Francisco’s one remaining surefire starter is Logan Webb, who broke out with a tremendous 2021 season. Just about any veteran ace on the market could be a candidate to team Webb at the top of the rotation, considering how much money the Giants have available. This could translate to a reunion with Gausman, signing the likes of a Marcus Stroman or a Robbie Ray, or even luring Max Scherzer away from the Dodgers to join the other side of the longtime rivalry.
The Giants have interest in retaining any of their own free agent hurlers, Zaidi said. With his $130MM deal now up, Cueto would be the least expensive of the group, likely available on a one-year deal. Wood will require a multi-year pact but his market could be somewhat tempered by his injury history, even though he pitched quite well when healthy in 2021. Gausman will require one of the largest contracts of any free agent this winter, though there is already optimism that a new deal will be worked out, and the two sides already had some talks about a long-term contract last offseason when Gausman accepted the qualifying offer.
DeSclafani could be a QO candidate himself in the wake of his impressive 2021 season. The righty has generally pitched well over his seven MLB seasons but with some inconsistency, such as a rough 2020 campaign that allowed San Francisco to sign him to a one-year, $6MM deal last winter that proved to be a bargain. There is a possibility that DeSclafani could follow in Gausman’s footsteps by accepting the qualifying offer (one year, $18.4MM) and betting on himself for a better platform year in 2022 and larger free agent riches next offseason. Taking the QO would also allow DeSclafani to lock in a big payday now and avoid any risk of a market squeeze, or the labor uncertainty looming over baseball’s offseason due to the expiring Collective Bargaining Agreement. On the other hand, DeSclafani turns 32 in April, so he might reject the qualifying offer if he sees this winter as his best chance at a big long-term contract.
At the lower end of the free agent market, any pitcher coming off a poor season or two might as well see San Francisco as the fountain of youth, given the Giants’ success at reclamation projects in recent years. As a result, it’s safe to assume the Giants might have their pick of just about any veterans available on inexpensive one-year deals. Younger starting candidates like Sammy Long and Tyler Beede are also in the mix to compete with any of these veterans for a back-end rotation spot come Spring Training.
The Giants had one of the game’s best bullpens last year and the relief corps probably won’t be a huge target area, but at least a couple of new faces are inevitable as more pitchers cycle through on minor league contracts. If rookie breakout Camilo Doval isn’t quite ready to take over the ninth inning, the Giants might stick with their loose committee system — Jake McGee will likely again get the bulk of save chances, with Doval, Tyler Rogers, Jose Alvarez (whose club option is very likely to be exercised), Zack Littell, and others all chipping in with saves based on situations.
We’ll begin our look at the Giants’ position player mix with catcher, as Posey’s retirement marks the end of a Cooperstown-level career and in some ways a symbolic end to the era that saw the Giants capture World Series titles in 2010, 2012, and 2014. Posey might also be the perfect symbol of this Giants rebuild, as his return to All-Star status in 2021 after opting out of the 2020 season and an injury-marred 2019 mirrored the team’s own unexpected rise.
Posey’s retirement gives San Francisco even more financial room to maneuver, as the team was going to at least exercise his $22MM option, and a longer-term extension seemed like a distinct possibility. However, replacing Posey’s 2021 production is a very tall order no matter the money on hand, and it puts more pressure on Joey Bart to immediately deliver on his potential as one of baseball’s best prospects.
Bart hit .294/.358/.472 with 10 home runs over 279 plate appearances for Triple-A Sacramento this season, which represented his first exposure to Triple-A ball. Bart hasn’t done much over his 35 games and 117 PA at the big league level, but obviously that sample size isn’t representative of what the former second overall pick might have in store for the future. The Giants are likely to retain Curt Casali as a veteran backup or platoon partner with Bart in 2022, depending on whether or not the youngster is ready for a larger share of the playing time.
While the Giants aren’t going to do anything to hamper Bart’s long-term development, allowing a rookie catcher time to get his feet wet as a Major League player might not be ideal for a club that wants to win in 2022. It wouldn’t be surprising to see San Francisco acquire a veteran catcher on a one-year contract to essentially take Posey’s role as the short-term bridge to Bart in 2023, though Bart would still get his share of at-bats this coming season. Whether this scenario would potentially make Casali expendable remains to be seen, and the Giants also have two other interesting catching prospects (Patrick Bailey, Ricardo Genoves) waiting to make their debuts in the next season or two.
With Posey now retired, Brandon Crawford and Brandon Belt are the last Giants remaining from the 2014 championship team. Belt is a free agent, but we already know Crawford will be staying, as the veteran shortstop rather unexpectedly delivered the best season of his career at age 34, which resulted in a two-year, $32MM contract extension back in August.
Crawford’s extension is both a fitting reward for a long-time franchise fixture, and an interesting early signal for San Francisco’s winter plans. Since Crawford is now locked up for two more years and star shortstop prospect Marco Luciano is at most a year away from the Show, the Giants might not be inclined to take part in the star-laden free agent shortstop market. If other teams with greater shortstop needs are targeting those players, it creates an opening for the Giants to focus on prime free agents at other positions.
Or, to pivot, the Giants might look at one of those shortstops at a position other than shortstop. Marcus Semien, for instance, already spent much of 2021 playing second base for the Blue Jays, and could potentially be willing to take on that role over the longer term to play for a contender (and particularly a contender that plays in Semien’s hometown of San Francisco). Zaidi’s past job in the Dodgers’ front office has made him very familiar with Corey Seager, and since there is already some sense that Seager will to change positions eventually, it is possible Seager might be open to making the move now under the right circumstances. For what it’s worth, there hasn’t been speculation that Crawford could switch positions, and that type of move seems unlikely since Crawford continues to be one of the better defensive shortstops around.
Chris Taylor might be a particular free agent name to watch, as he is another player with past ties to Zaidi in Los Angeles, and Taylor’s ability to play multiple positions fits the Giants’ love of versatile players. Taylor wouldn’t be as expensive as any of the “big five” shortstops (Seager, Semien, Carlos Correa, Javier Baez, and Trevor Story) but he would still require a significant multi-year contract, and some draft pick compensation since he’ll be turning down the Dodgers’ qualifying offer.
Getting another super-utility type would help the Giants juggle playing time around the diamond, since the team already has a lot of available options. This is the interesting challenge facing Zaidi’s front office this winter when it comes to position player additions — the Giants have had great success in mixing and matching players throughout the lineup, but to take the next step towards a World Series ring, which reliable everyday stars are needed? And, since pretty much everyone on the roster played well in 2021, which of the productive platoon situations is the team willing to supplant with a single everyday player?
For instance, adding Taylor or the ultra-durable Semien at second base would lock down a position that already has depth, but also question marks. Wilmer Flores is likely to be retained and Thairo Estrada impressed in limited action in 2021, but Donovan Solano is a free agent and Tommy La Stella’s Opening Day readiness is in question due to Achilles surgery.
For first base, re-signing Belt would seem like an obvious move, and there is already some sense that Belt could be back for a 12th season in San Francisco. Belt also turns 34 in April and has a lengthy injury history, so Belt may not be able to match his 2020-21 numbers going forward. For as much payroll space as the Giants have on hand, they might prefer to spend those dollars at another position, and instead rely on some combination of Flores, LaMonte Wade Jr. and Darin Ruf as a first base platoon.
Or, maybe the easier solution is to just re-sign Belt and solidify the first base spot. Belt has been so good over the last two seasons (.285/.393/.595 with 38 homers over his last 560 PA) that such production is hard to replace, and the NLDS was a prime example of how the Giants lineup sorely missed Belt’s bat. With the DH likely coming to the National League in 2022, the Giants and other NL teams will be on the lookout for more offense, and having a DH spot available could help Belt stay healthy. Belt’s big numbers make him another candidate for a qualifying offer, and while it isn’t yet known if the Giants will extend such an offer to the first baseman, there would seem to be at least a chance that Belt might take such a deal. It would secure Belt another year with his longtime team, while also setting up a chance at another big payday next winter if Belt stays healthy and keeps hitting in 2022.
Evan Longoria is another veteran who is no stranger to the injured list, and a two-month absence due to a shoulder strain was the biggest reason Longoria was limited to only 81 games in 2021. Longoria hit well when he did play, and with the likes of Flores, Estrada, and La Stella all capable of playing third base, the Giants will probably stand pat at the hot corner barring something unexpected like Seager signing and then changing positions. This is purely speculation, but if the Giants did have a larger move in mind, Longoria might be an under-the-radar trade candidate since he has only one guaranteed year left on his contract (and the Rays are still paying a notable chunk of Longoria’s salary).
In the outfield, the collection of Bryant, Wade, Ruf, Mike Yastrzemski, Steven Duggar, Austin Slater, Alex Dickerson, and others all combined to give the Giants above-average production. Re-signing Bryant or a similar everyday name (i.e. Starling Marte, Mark Canha) would account for one position on a regular basis, reducing the number of platoon situations the Giants would have to monitor, and it would also allow players like Wade or Ruf to see more time in the infield. Dickerson seems like a non-tender or trade candidate, and if another outfielder is acquired, the Giants might feel they have enough of a surplus to make some other outfield names available in trade talks. Prospect Heliot Ramos didn’t have a great 2021 campaign in the minors, but he should also be available for his MLB debut next year.
Since Bryant is capable of regularly playing or at least filling in at five different positions, re-signing the former NL MVP would seem like a natural way to address San Francisco’s roster needs. There is enough of a fit that a reunion between the two sides probably can’t be ruled out until Bryant officially signs elsewhere, yet Zaidi seemed to imply that Bryant was only one of many possibilities open to the Giants, and not necessarily a priority.
It is a sign of how the Giants’ approach has evolved that San Francisco now has the luxury of waiting on talents like Bryant, since the Giants have perhaps the most overall flexibility (from both a financial standpoint and a roster standpoint) of any team. While Zaidi’s tenure has seen the Giants at least make some exploratory measures towards bigger-name acquisitions in the past, this may be the first offseason where Zaidi will have the organization’s full resources behind him, fully directed towards contending and winning. Expect a lot of rumors and headlines out of San Francisco this winter, as the Giants’ next steps could be the talk of the offseason.
I really like Mark Canha as a fit on this team.
As for pending free agents:
I don’t think the Giants will resign him but Reyes Moronta has a chance to be a steal if he proves that he’s healthy
Doubt Alex Dickerson gets tendered a contract, he’s not a bad hitter but his defense is atrocious and should be limited to DH (please don’t resign him)
Solano is a nice role-player bench bat type guy but I see him going to a team like the Mariners or Reds
Bryant is a long shot to resign
Disco and Wood should demand multi-year deals, maybe 1 of them with SF
I’d be very surprised if Gausman and Belt don’t re-sign. Farhan and co. have preached clubhouse chemistry and I think losing Posey makes retaining Belt more important, though that may sound odd to some.
They have an unlimited payroll and you think Mark Canha is the answer? In addition to losing Bryant? lol
Unlimited payroll wins you championships? He might not be the absolute best but he’s pretty dam good!
No one has ever won a WS without buying it. Signed, everyone other than Yankee or Dodger fans.
Unlimited payroll doesnt win you championships, no, I just think your bar was a little low, no disrespect to Canha lol
Which big name player did the 2010 Giants sign to “buy” their championship?
So the Nationals, Red Sox, Marlins, Cubs, and Diamondbacks all won their championships with home grown stars? Every team attempts to buy that final piece or 2 in Free agency. Also I hate to break it to you but you are about a decade behind the last time the Yankees attempted to buy a championship. DJL was the only position player starter this year that they picked up in free agency. Their rotation besides Cole was all home grown, trades or reclaims as well. I know fans like you got used to the Yankees buying every top free agent for 25 years but those days are gone. They seem to chase the top of the class about once every 5 years now. This off-season they will probably resign Rizzo and chase a Brad Miller type for SS. Maybe a reclaim starter and reliever but that’s it. Doubt they will ever have a half a billion off-season ever again. It just doesn’t work out anymore. Hasn’t for years.
But the Giants won with very few high contracts, and even out of FA they didn’t have huge contracts
The 2010 Giants beg to differ, unless you count Zito, who was “bought,” but not really the reason they won. Cheap talent from the farm made 2010 happen.
Baseball 1600 likes Canha “as a fit”. Nowhere in his post did he use the word “answer” zime. By the way, they won 107. They aren’t looking for “answers”. “fits” is actually very appropriate.
Giants didn’t even have Bryant at the start of the year and signing a Mark Canha-type guy will help them vs. lefties while giving them room to upgrade the rotation and find catching depth
Canha is a reverse splits guy. He hit righties better than lefties.
Didn’t know that to be honest. At least earlier in his career I thought he had a reputation for mashing lefties, guess I was wrong
Can we just finally say now that it is obvious Joey Bart is ready to take over as the San Francisco Giants starting catcher next season? I’ve never seen a prospect with such great offensive numbers be forced out of a role. Especially a catcher. I understand why the Giants had to do it this season. Posey was on one. You couldn’t stop him. I was surprised and disappointed Posey retired. I keep reading a bunch of comments from Giants fans saying they need to sign a starting catcher. Don’t they know when the oven is done cooking? It’s ready and piping hot. The dish is named former high first round pick Joey Bart. All he needs is a shot. He’s one of the best 2 catching prospects in all of baseball. Don’t block him with a veteran bum. Let him flourish in his new role that he probably earned last season if it weren’t for Posey turning into a great player for his last year. BTW: Posey should have stayed to make $22 million for one more year with a team that just won 107 games. 109 if you count the division series. He didn’t though. It’s Bart’s turn. No need to get another starting catcher.
Bart is probably ready to take over but what great offensive numbers are you looking at? He looks good but his numbers aren’t really that great. Nowhere near what you are implying.
Actually, I see Casali as more likely to take over as the starting catcher with Bart taking lots of reps as backup in order to ease him in a little more than last time
Why the need to ease him in? He’s a top prospect, old enough… why sit him on the bench half the time?
I think they should ease him in because of how he did in 2020 when he was thrown into the starting catcher role. He wasn’t ready. He needs someone to be the starting catcher so he can be, as I said, eased in, and then I believe he would turn out better and have more success this season
Where does it say unlimited?
Hyperbole is a tool of rhetoric
Yeah but in this case it’s just incorrect.
Calling what goes on here rhetoric is hyperbole.
Agreed that Gausman and Belt should be prioritized. I see Gausman as a #2 starter and I’m hoping that a limited free agent market for starters doesn’t over-inflate his price so that he’s overpaid. I see $75 million over 4 years as acceptable.
I would bet a Wheeler type contract at minimum
Gausman will get minimum 4 years $88 million if not more
Zaidi needs to re-sign Bryant. Not only does he provide offense, defense, versatility but team chemistry.
Signing Chris Taylor would be a bonus. Between Bryant and Taylor their versatility would give Kapler many options; especially when there are unexpected injuries.
Mike Lorenzen (Reds) could be another low budget and versatile pitcher who could start, long relief, or 1-2 innings of relief. And, in a pinch can play outfield. And, he can hit.
Dickerson’s lack of offense and defense no longer fits the Giants. The amount of money to bring him back can be better spent on other needs.
I was thinking Taylor’s versatility makes him a target for this team for sure. They def have a “type.”
Taylor fits the “next man up” mentality very well, in my opinion. He is very versatile, and can play OF, MIF, and even 3B, and that alone gets Zaidi’s attention. He can also swing the bat so I think the Giants would be ok losing a pick if it meant getting Taylor
the problem with bryant is going to be price. The thing is that he is versatile in the he can play a number of positions the downside is that he plays a lot of them with below average defense and will cost a lot more than someone like a chris taylor.
I’d say his fielding in the outfield is at least average. He has a plus arm and can make some plays
Belt on a Two year, like Crawford. I feel you kind of have too. Keep Watson on a one year if you can. Wood. Gausman. Disco. If you can keep all three. Do It. Not sure length or price right now. Bryant walks. Spend elsewhere. Until the minor league guys come up and take out field spots. And find another third basemen when Longo goes next off-season.
I think they can fill holes. Excited to see Bart take another step. Posey will come around at some point and tutor alittle bit I think. But cassali did great. And some Bart offense would be good. Another vet stashed in triple A.
– The Giants need better situational hitters. The playoffs showed that. A lot of homers get out out of things. But no Homers. You don’t score. Can’t have that. They’ll be ok.
World Series in One – Two Years.
Mark P, I now understand why you didn’t answer any of my Giants’ related questions in tonight’s chat!
This whole Disco thing is dumb. The dude doesn’t even like disco.
I’d say keep Belt on a 1 year because it’ll give him a little incentive to play harder for the next time he reaches FA, plus you can get out of the deal quicker if it doesn’t turn out. Yes on Watson, Gausman, Disco, but no Wood. He was good at the start but got a little flaky for my liking. This way you have Webb, Gausman, and Disco, and still have money for a 4th and 5th guy.
If Bryant is really intent on staying I say keep him but don’t pay $25m+(per year of course). Find a taker for Longo ASAP to get rid of him and not have another half year of him.
I agree on the situational part. Need more basehit guys. Homers are great, but they only go so far. Find some guys that will hit .290+
I think KB re-signs with the Giants. Not a huge deal but maybe 185/7
185/7 isn’t a big deal?
Not anymore
Hard pass on that. He didn’t impress that much, his numbers really aren’t WOW (and haven’t been in a couple years), and I think his outfield play is lacking. To be tied down for seven years at $26.5 million per seems outrageous. Heck, I think 5/$125 is a tough pill to swallow…
If the Giants are dishing out big money contracts I’d rather them give that money to Marcus Semien. Guy can play 2nd, back up at SS, could mix in at 3rd, and his bat is much better than Kris.
he is better but I think we have his position covered with estrada, dubon, luciano, etc in the wings.. Not saying you can’t sign a guy that plays infield but you aren’t going to sign a guy to a long term contract right now in the infield unless that guy can play in the outfield – giving you flexibility to shift things around as guys come up through the system
The new CBA is going to screw up a lot this offseason if they can’t agree by Dec 1. I can see the Giants choosing the trade route, especially for starting pitching given this uncertainty and their relatively strong prospect pool. I have my eye on the Marlins’ Alcantara and Lopez.
Let’s go!!!!
and I thought the Dodgers had a lot of work to do…
Another superlative article! Enjoyable, thought provoking, and refreshing (try reading the pap regarding MLB teams and players on the Internet).
When it’s obvious something’s going to happen……it seldom does…..as the article noted about what the consensus thinking was about the Giants “rebuild”.
Zaidi came over from the Dodgers where he worked with Friedman. Those Dodgers were built primarily with young players acquired in multiple ways, and veterans that came in and played better with the Dodgers then they ever had anywhere. But Friedman has begun to panic, and this year I saw the same tired tactic of overpaying for veterans and taking on salary in trade (letting Seager go is a step in the right direction).
I watched a number of Giants games this year. Those players played smart, hard, opportunistic, clean baseball. They were hungry to win. To spend some money to complement them is a swell strategy. But I’d hate to see the Giants go the Dodgers route (and the Padres…and the Yankees……and the Cardinals…..and the Mets…….and….).
I know the Giants have a lot going on, but this was a long read. I recommend MLBTR adopt a max 1500 word limit on articles.
Are you new to MLBTR? The length of this article is typical for the off=season assessments of every team. I don’t read all of every article, but being a Giants fan I did this one, and thought it was appropriate in length. I’m sure you’ll read every word when it’s about your team. Asking MLBTR to limit the length of articles, when you can skim, or quit reading at any point, to suit your preference, seems a bit egocentric.
I’m a Giants fan. And you must be new, this article could have easily been broken down into three, though it’s really not a big deal, relax man.
No offense dude but you’re the one who made it a big deal by commenting in the first place..
Instead of one in-depth article on the Giants off-season, you’d want it split into 3? So readers would have the same amount of info to read, but would have to go to 3 places to read it. What, besides needlessly serializing the article and fracturing discussion on the Giants off-season possibilities across 3 comment sections, is that supposed to accomplish/fix?
I know I’ll be criticized heavily for bringing this up, but the sky is a little cloudy and I hope the sun comes out later today
On the contrary. I applaud you heavily for being able to make one statement that is a non-sequitur, equivalency, and a refusal to simply explain your own idea.
‘could have easily split those ideas into 3 sentences.
Actually my recommendation was succinct and to the point, which is the point. The need to confront that in rebuttal has the equivalency of belly-button fuzz, and matters only as matter taking up space
But you do know if you split that belly-button fuzz into 3 pieces, its still the same amount of belly-button fuzz, right?
I think we’re on the same page on the splitting of belly fuzz yup (high five).
Look I don’t mind the depth of the article as a fan, and Mark did a nice job in the overview, but it reads as an opinion piece as much as a review of roster status. That seems out of the norm for MLBTR. The opinions rendered take up quite a bit of the article and could have just as easily been presented elsewhere. While I tend to agree with the opinions presented, I’d rather those be left for discussion in comments by the fans in MLBTR. For example:
“This is the interesting challenge facing Zaidi’s front office this winter when it comes to position player additions — the Giants have had great success in mixing and matching players throughout the lineup, but to take the next step towards a World Series ring, which reliable everyday stars are needed? And, since pretty much everyone on the roster played well in 2021, which of the productive platoon situations is the team willing to supplant with a single everyday player?”
Fair enough. I guess I took from the article’s title that the intention was to be more than a roster status review.
” The opinions rendered take up quite a bit of the article and could have just as easily been presented elsewhere.”
I just don’t see any utility in doing that.
“I’d rather those be left for discussion in comments by the fans in MLBTR.”
Which would be stifled approximately 0% by a writer’s opinion/conjecture/projections. Just more grist for the comment mill. Opinions. Opinions on the opinions. Like us! Now!
Honest question: is the example you provided supposed to be an example of writer’s opinion you could do without? I ask because as that passage follows discussion of the Giants possibly targeting one of the FA shortstops vs. signing Chris Taylor, and begins with (omitted from your example) “Getting another super-utility type would help the Giants juggle playing time around the diamond, since the team already has a lot of available options.” I don’t know it just reads like a summary of the Giants offensive situation this off-season (and an artful one too, using the SS FA/Chris Taylor bit as a jump-off). Let me know what I’m missing.
There’s some reality to the Baseball 1600’s comment above that I’ve “made it a big deal by commenting on it”. I don’t necessarily agree with that logic because what I suggested really wasn’t a big critique, just a suggestion. But hey, lesson learned.
I enjoyed the article, so it’s strange to be defending my comment about it’s length. My initial read of it (and I’ve been reading MLBTR articles avidly for a long time) was that it perhaps covered more (beyond a roster review) than what can be responded to in one comment session.
And I admit to getting lost on the intended breadth (or bounds) of the “review”. That said the opinions expressed that relate to the potential GM moves that lie ahead were thought-provoking. And also only a small sample of opinions regarding the many directions the team might take this off-season. I’m a little surprised how few (less than 90 so far) substantive comments have been generated.
I think a “Tank” year by the Giants is still a possibility.
Why not? Franchise Icon Buster Posey just retired. 80% of the rotation are set for free agency. Farhan is all about value, not overpaying for players. And after a season where the Giants won 107 games and came up short they can rationalize a down year to Giant fans. And another big one: attendance was way down despite all those wins.
Yes, the Giants resigned Crawford but it was only a 2 year extension. Belt should be offered a qualifying offer but they’re not breaking the bank to resign an aging and brittle first baseman (yes brittle but I love the Captain).
I want the Giants to be competitive next year and make another run. The veterans and Logan Webb deserve it. But there’s a chance they cry poor or make up any number of excuses for not spending on free agents but claim we’re trying to be competitive. Farhan, along with being a very good GM is also a talented spin doctor. Get ready for the tap dancing.
Dave,
I think not. First of all the Giants aren’t a team that employs tanking as a way to team build. They have always wanted to field a competitive team, and as a Giants fan, I’m glad they do.
Secondly, just because FZ has worked in a low-risk/cost for value sort of way, doesn’t mean that’s all that he’s about. In fact, I’m sure he’s not. I think he’s worked as he has because the roster situation dictated that approach when took over. The Dodgers situation was similar to that of the Giants when he and Friedman took over in LA, and budget constraints dictated moves, as always, during his time with the A’s.
But remember, he would have acquired Giancarlo Stanton, taking on that contract, had Stanton not nixed the trade. He also went hard after Bryce Harper, and it was reported that the Giants offered a higher AAV than the Phillies. So he will spend for what he feels is the right guy.
They aren’t going to cry poor. They never have. Not only do they have low payroll commitments for next year, they’re one of the richest teams in baseball. I think the combination of those 2 factors means they’ll not only not tank, but spend freely on the guys they think are worth it,
Tad,
If we were having this conversation in person I’d pat you on the head and say something comforting like, “It’s gonna be OK slugger”.
The Giants have cryed poor in the past, many times. The Giants were never legitimate contenders to sign Harper or acquire Stanton; spin, spin, spin. Like I said, Farhan is really good at it. By the way, he’s going to pull the same stunt with Bryant; “Oh, we did our best but came up just short”.
My point was and is a Tank year is a possibility. Don’t assume because the Giants payroll is much lower now that they will automatically spend those dollars again next year. Think of it this way, do all rich people buy Ferraris? No, some buy Hondas. Farhan likes Hondas, a lot.
Not sure why, the Braves must have been on my mind, but I wrote incorrectly that the “…Giants and Braves were in agreement on a trade”, when I meant to write the Giants and Marlins were in agreement on a trade.
There is no call for you to be condescending. I’m not some little kid, or even a young man new to the sport. I have been following baseball for decades, and I’m probably older than you. I remember watching the 1957 WS. My dad was ecstatic, being a Braves fan because he was from Massachusetts, and was a fan of the Boston Braves. I was following baseball when the Giants were still in NY.
Your assertion that the Giants weren’t in on Stanton, or Harper, is complete conjecture on your part. There is not a shred of evidence that it was simply spin. In fact, you’re dead wrong about Stanton. The Giants and Braves were in agreement on a trade, and it was only later that Stanton applied the NT clause of his contract.
Just because a team fails to acquire a player doesn’t mean their pursuit was all for show. The Dodgers also went hard for Harper also to fall short. In my memory the Giants have never cried poor. Remember Barry Bonds was not only signed, but then re-signed a couple of times. If you say they have please offer some example of when they did that.
Dave, Dave, Dave…When have the Giants cried poor? Umm…So, your hot take was rather cold…I would say fridged. I don’t think they have that much interest in signing Bryant. Starling Matte is a much better fit. He gives them something they haven’t had in decades.
Tad, I think you meant “Marlins”, not Braves. Small correction, but as usual, you’re correct here.
Speaking of the Marlins, the Giants aren’t going to tank after a winning season. That would be catastrophic in regards to appeasing their fanbase. It would also be stupid.
The Giants have a lot of work to do. They’ll have to find out if they can repeat their successes from last year, and will likely need to bring in 1-2 big name players to accommodate for potential regression. I don’t know if the Giants will win 100 games next year. Making such a prediction would be lofty. But assuming they will tank would be even loftier.
The Giants are going for it all in 2022.
Yeah, I realized my mistake after the edit time elapsed. I tried correcting it in a reply to my post, but for some reason, it showed up as a reply to davemlaw.
I also agree completely with your other thoughts. They’re a team with a zero history of tanking. Yes, a lot of work, but I believe FZ is up to it, and will field a winner. But also like you I wouldn’t predict a 100+ win season either.
Tad, I didn’t mean to offend you. I was just trying to make the point that the Giants don’t have to spend money even though they have it.
Which brings us to this: DeSclafini had a 3.9 WAR in 2021. Is that worth a QO? I think it is. But the Giants didn’t issue him a QO when Farhan said keeping the rotation intact was a priority. So why would a rich organization like the Giants not issue a QO to one of their best pitchers from 2021? Could it be they’re going to “PUNT”? May be. I’m not saying they are but it’s a very real possibility.
They can still spend a lot of money and make all us Giant fans happy but not issuing DeSclafini a QO is more than a fore shadowing. The Dodgers would have issued that QO in a heartbeat. Disco (I know he doesn’t like that nickname) and his agent are doing body shots off each other right now because they’re cashing in. The Giants just gave away all their leverage in trying to resign him to a fair contract. Now they can get in line with just about every other team looking for pitching.
On the crying poor comment….Giants almost left town for Tampa Bay in the early 90’s because Bob Lurie wouldn’t cough up any of his own money to build a stadium. If not for our patron saint Peter Magowan the Giants would be in Florida now. There are other minor examples but this is a STFU reference; there was no time table on my comment so suck it. And on Stanton and Harper…the Giants can have open discussions with their agents. Giants knew they were unattainable and never intended to acquire either of those players. Some puffery for the public doesn’t hurt anyone and makes us all feel warm and fuzzy. It doesn’t take a genius to stop, analyze all the facts and come to a logical conclusion. Or you can just believe everything you’re spoon fed.
Here’s a parting shot to chew on and it’s a good one: Buster Posey would have played in 2022 if the Giants FO had made more of an effort to win in 2021. We needed another starting pitcher at the deadline but didn’t get one. Giants put a shoe string rotation together in September and pulled off a miracle. Posey gave every last ounce of himself to win but the front office didn’t; spare me on Bryant, Giants gave up two middling prospects with low initial acquisition costs. How could he commit to one more year behind the plate when the FO didn’t have his back. I know, it’s like the end of your childhood all at once to hear this: The Giants frugal front office chased away a franchise icon. Go have a drink, it’s gonna be OK.
Once again, you are totally wrong about Stanton. It was nothing like the way you paint it, supposedly only open discussions with his agent. I guess you are completely clueless to the fact that the Giants had a trade agreement with the Marlins to acquire Stanton in place. The Giants would assume most, or all of his contract, with agreement on the players going to Miami, Suarez, Span, and Jacob Gonzalez. (Gonzalez was a 19 year old prospect that hit .339/.418/.458, .876 OPS in the Rookie League the previous season). Once Stanton was informed there was a trade agreement, he invoked his NT clause. You can easily find this with a quick search on Google. But, bottom line, not spin.
If you have to go back about 30 years, to a different era/owner to find an example of the Giants crying poor, you need to reassess. Bob Lurie crying poor is irrelevant to the current Giants. Part owner Charles Johnson is worth $6B. I couldn’t find the team value from 1991, but in 2002 it was $355M. The franchise also has a current value of $6B. Bob Lurie did not own the ‘Stick. The current ownership group owns Oracle outright, the debt service having been paid off. There is more of a similarity between the 1991 Giants and the 2021 Oakland A’s then there is with the 2021 Giants.
No, that was not a good parting shot. Not even close. It’s amazing that you think you know what Buster Posey was thinking, and his real reason for retiring. You have got to be one of the most cynical people I’ve ever encountered. No, Posey retired because he was done. He was ready to move on, spend time with his family, and was tired of getting beat up playing catcher getting concussions. Krukow, during a broadcast earlier this season, told about telling Posey how refreshed he looked after taking the 2020 season off. Posey replied, “yeah, about as refreshed as a 34 year-old catcher with 12 years behind the plate can be, I guess”. That was real foreshadowing. Not your made-up conspiracy theory, that seems to exist only in your head. I have not seen, or read, anything like that anywhere else. Your parting shot exhibits nothing more than delusion on your part.
You’re even clueless about the Bryant trade. Are you really unaware that both the Mets, and the Mariner’s went hard after Bryant, and the Cubs decided that the Giants offer was the best? No one knows, neither you, I, nor the Cubs or Giants how Canario will develop. But if you knew anything about how teams operate, you’d know that Cubs valued Canario fairly high.
You need to get out of that basement and stop believing all those conspiracy theories. Really, the Giants, and FZ, aren’t the devious , spin-meisters that you think they are, bent on fooling Giants fans, and not trying to win another title.
“Not issuing DeSclafini a QO is more than a fore shadowing”
No, it’s not. The QO is a guaranteed contract at the start of free agency. That means the Giants are taking the gamble that they want what’s behind Door #1 without knowing what’s behind Doors 2 & 3.
And what if behind Door #2 is a 3-win pitcher who is only paid $12M next year? They just overpaid by 33% in an offseason where they have to spend a lot of money.
I’m not convinced that DeSclafani is worth $18M. I think the Giants should absolutely try to bring him back (and think they will), but closer to the 10M price tag.
His lack of a QO offer speaks more to the nature of the QO. It’s a deal that has to be offered and accepted before 99% of the free agency deals materialize. The QO is a deal you’re okay with risking Carlos Correa or Brandon Belt taking. Not so much a fringy guy like Anthony DeSclafani.
It was a great decision by the Giants.
“Buster Posey would have played in 2022 if the Giants FO had made more of an effort to win in 2021.”
Dave, I typically consider you to be a thoughtful individual who contributes well to these comment threads. But this is beyond pathetic take from you. That’s not a “parting shot”, it’s a pathetically stupid hot take that has zero basis in reality. Buster Posey was extremely forthright about his reasons for retiring, more than most players were. And yes, he wasn’t going to throw the organization under the bus, but he was more than a statesman to the organization.
The Giants won 107 games with their existing rotation. If Buster actually thought that they needed another pitcher to get them over the hump (he didn’t). let us know which magical starting pitcher the Giants needed to give up legitimately talented young players to acquire?
You saw the returns for top-flight starting pitchers at the deadline. It wasn’t going to be Joey Bart and a fringe prospect heading out of San Francisco for anyone, including Max Scherzer. Such a move would hamstring the Giants farm system for some time, and thus go against all the efforts this front office has done to help rebuild it and find that next elite core of young players.
“Go have a drink, it’s gonna be OK.”
I suspect you’re about 15-20 ahead of us, Dave.
Davemlaw – You are just dead wrong on almost every point. In the past, I found your comments to be thoughtful. But these latest takes just don’t comport with the facts.
Belt doesn’t deserve to be in the same conversation as Correa.
Correa is a top 4 or 5 at his position.
Belt is not even a top 10 at his position.
Don’t let his anomaly season fool you.
I think the giants won’t win like they did in 2021. The dodgers most likely will be spending big money again and the Padres will be better the whole year.
To win like they did in 2021 the giants would have to get career years out of players that for lack of a better term looked tired in 2019 and 2020. They don’t have a young core that is emerging instead they have more of a older core that is getting older and decline is likely.
I don’t think Giants are a huge attraction to free agents with California taxes; stadium that doesn’t play well for power; a cold even in summer stadium.
The age thing is so overrated. People that don’t like the Giants always trot that out, because, without actually looking to see if it’s true, just repeat the same fallacy.
First of all, baseball is not the type of sport where athleticism is paramount. Ever notice how long it takes for draftees to learn the sport well enough to get promoted to the majors? It’s a learned game where veteran experience has value. When the Nationals won the WS they were the oldest team in MLB that year.
Yes, SF has the oldest average batting age, but that’s average. Longoria, at age 35 was the oldest guy on the team. LA had Pujols, 41 and Justin Turner, and Scherzer, both 36.
In batting age, the Rangers, Indians, Pirates, and Orioles were among the youngest teams last year. Cards, Brewers, Astros, and Dodgers were all older than league average., 4 of the 10 playoff teams were younger than league average, and 6 were older.
In pitching age it’s even more about veteran experience. The 5 youngest were Indians, Marlins, Tigers, Pirates, and Rangers. Only 2 playoff teams were younger than league average, Brewers and WSox. The RSox and Cardinals were both older than the Giants, The Astros were 1 year younger on average. The Dodgers and Rays were 0.9 years younger, the NYYs 0.4 years younger. and the WS winning Braves were 0.2 years younger than the Giants.
Overall average has the Cards with the oldest average age. 7 of the 10 oldest teams on average went to the PS. None of the 10 youngest made the playoffs. The youngest team to make the PS was the Rays, 16th youngest. It’s just lazy to repeatedly call the Giants old, like they’re geriatric or something.
Age is a huge thing; especially in sports takes longer to heal from nagging little injuries etc. skills start to slow down the ability to do motor skills on this level slows. Most athletics down have career years in mid to late 30’s.
The giants aren’t a young team with a emerging core one or two pieces away from a world championship they are a aging team that needs to get younger. So many giants had career type years in 2021 at a age where to expect that again in 2022 would be too much. Not to mention that the Dodgers and Padres both are getting better. Makes the likely hood of a multiple 100 plus win teams from same division low.
So, you really didn’t address the facts in my post. I agree age is important. But is 35 really that old for baseball? Again, the Giants are only marginally older on average. Is an average age of around 30 so old? And please tell me why the winningest teams are all older teams.
The Giants don’t have a young core? They have 23 players on the 40-man roster that’s 29 or younger. And that doesn’t include guys like Matos, Ramos, or Luciano. And if the Giants are so old, and age matters so much how did they win 107 games?
And again, it’s just about the laziest criticism I see here. Try looking deeper and see what the average age really means. Plus, it depends on the individual. When there are guys like Grienke, Verlander, Pujols, Gurriel, Gardner, Kluber, J. Turner, Morton, Wainwright, and Miller all older than any Giants plyer it’s silly that they get tagged with being old more than any other team.
This Benjamin dude literally comments the same take on how the Giants core won’t repeat in 2022 on every Giants related article… leave him be
The Padres aren’t getting better. They struggled last year.
The Padres were missing like 60% of their rotation and were without Tatis for a stretch.
They will bounce back and be much better in 2022. As will the Dodgers who are always good.
Benjamin is correct. The Giants are an aging team that had anomaly type seasons from several veterans and they struck gold on every dumpster dining signing.
None of that will happen again. Crawford and Belt if he is re-signed will not repeat their success. Posey is gone. Longoria will be injured by May.
This is an 83-88 win team. Period. They lucked out in every aspect in 2021 and that simply will not happen again.
Several NL teams have better rosters. Two of them in the same division.
Stop overhyping an anomaly type season because that is exactly what it was. They had a great year but they are from a great team.
“But is 35 really that old for baseball?”
Yes.
” Again, the Giants are only marginally older on average”
Team Average Age includes everyone who made a PA during the season and is a poor gauge because it doesn’t factor in playing time. Of the 14 Giants that w/ 200+ AB in ’21, `10 were over 30, 4 of them 34-35., That is an old lineup.
“And please tell me why the winningest teams are all older teams.”
Without doing a bunch of digging or figuring out what your criteria are for a team being an “older team”, I will say that correlation =/= causation
“The Giants don’t have a young core? They have 23 players on the 40-man roster that’s 29 or younger.”
The Dodgers have 32. The Rockies have 33. Just having some young players on the 40-man roster doesn’t mean a team has a young core. The Rockies certainly don’t. And neither do the Giants.
“And if the Giants are so old, and age matters so much how did they win 107 games?”
By scoring more runs than their opponent in each one of those games.
“Try looking deeper and see what the average age really means.”
Average age? Means almost nothing. You appear to be the one who brought it up.
“When there are guys like Grienke, Verlander, Pujols, Gurriel, Gardner, Kluber, J. Turner, Morton, Wainwright, and Miller all older than any Giants plyer it’s silly that they get tagged with being old more than any other team.”
Wait. So because there are exceptional players (some HOF-bound) who are older than a Giants player, that somehow makes the ’21 Giants not an old team?
@ Giants74 Assuming they aren’t again the most injury-riddled roster in MLB, and with a huge financial commitment from ownership, there’s reason to expect the Padres to be better in 2022.
Ha ha ha. Yep. Just like you have been predicting for the last 8 months or so.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen someone so keen to be right.
@usafcop
The Giants had the most injuries out of any team in baseball. Quit acting like the Padres had more of an excuse
OntariGro:
So the older guys like Pujols, etc, are the only exceptions? That no one on the Giants could possibly be productive in their mid-30’s?
I agree average age is flawed, but to say it is meaningless is hyperbole. It’s still the best guideline there is. Otherwise, it becomes a subjective analysis. It also smacks of you not liking what the data says, so you attack the data. If it was meaningless why would BB Ref, and others use it?
I not going to do the work for you, but if you look at team age and wins, older teams have a better record than young teams. It’s that simple.
I found this in an article from 2013:
“…the oldest teams by hitter and pitcher ages during each of the past 10 seasons were an average of 32.1 years old and 31.6 years old, respectively. Despite that, these teams averaged 89 wins per year and even went to the postseason on 12 out of 22 occasions.”
I’d point out that the ages cited, 32.1 years old and 31.6 years old, are significantly older that the 2021 Giants. Just because a team is older, doesn’t make that team old.
@Pete Rose
The talent levels of the players lost is miles apart.
The Giants were without 34-35 year old vets that were thought to be done 2 seasons ago.
Some were even considered bad contracts or DFA candidates.
The Padres lost Tatis and 60% of their rotation all of whom are equally good as Gausman.
The Dodgers lost 2 Cy Young caliber pitchers plus Dustin May and Seager and Betts.
The Braves lost Acuna and Soroka and Ozuna.
I mean the talent levels were so far apart it’s not even funny.
Those for the most part are players you cannot replace.
The Giants backups were equally good as their starters.
That said, the Giants may have lost more players but they were replaceable players.
They will fall off and win between 83-88 games next season. No way they sniff 100 wins. They shouldn’t have this season but they got lucky on every signing and by keeping their veterans who were thought to be done.
None of those players will repeat their 2021 seasons, making their 2021 season an anomaly.
“That said, the Giants may have lost more players but they were replaceable players.”
Yes, they were replaceable, to the tune of several of those guys putting up seasons well, well above replacement level.
The depth the Giants had is why they had a 107-win season. They could maximize strengths and minimize weakness. They could put a right-handed 1B option like Darin Ruf in and get over 150 wRC+ from his platoon, then place Wade/Belt and get 150 from theirs.
Why is it that the Padres couldn’t find adequate replacements to their injured players but the Giants could?
And why would you suspect that having a comical amount of depth is an “anomaly”? Is it simply because you don’t want it to be true?
The Giants will do in 2022 what they did in 2021: they’ll find guys who they can employ in specific situations and other guys to cover those weaknesses.
That might be the most sustainable method in baseball, and we’re continuing to see it with the Brewers. Rays, and even the Dodgers year after year.
Will the Giants win 107 games in 2022? Probably not. Could they win 90? I have no reason to believe otherwise at this point.
Acting like this was an anomaly is stupid, even for you, Gary Brown.
You’ve forgotten that Crawford, Longoria (who was hot all season till the injury), Yaz, their entire rotation, and others, all had injuries that kept them on the IL. I think the Padres are the only team you could say were hurt more because their rotation (which might have been superb) was decimated. But the players the Giants lost were no less important than those of the Dodgers to their team.
@Tad
Actually I believe Tony Watson is older at 40(or something around there)
Yeah, I forgot about Watson. I was thinking about the team out of ST, and the call-ups. Watson is 36 though, not 4o, but as you correctly point out, he was the oldest guy on the roster.
@JJJHS
The Giants won’t even sniff 100 wins in 2022. More like 85-88.
2021 was a complete anomaly. Career years from what half the team? Bounce back years from the other half.
They aren’t even a top 6 or 7 team in the NL.
They literally had everything go in their direction in 2021. No way does that happen again.
It smelled of an anomaly by the end of May. How you don’t see this is disturbing.
Run down the loaded Braves or Dodgers or Padres rosters. Then look at the Giants roster. It’s not even close.
Then look at the 2nd tier of teams like the Mets and Cardinals and Brewers.
Then look at the up and coming Marlins who have a young nucleus.
To think the Giants are about to start a playoff run for years is absurd. They are the 3rd best team in their own division by default because the Rockies and Diamondbacks are on the 10 year rebuild plan seemingly.
I say over the next 5 years the Giants may make it as a WC team 2 times maybe 3 times depending on their FA signings this year.
They will miss the playoffs the other 2 or 3 seasons. That is not the start of something special.
You talk about their depth yet the Dodgers lost superstars and stuck with the Giants all season.
The Braves lost Acuna, arguably a top 3 player in the NL (Tatis and Soto) being the other 2. Yet they won the WS without even deploying their ace Soroka even once.
The Giants depth wouldn’t start on any other team. They are bench players for a reason and stepped up. Don’t read too much into it.
This was a fluke nothing more. Hard gritty work yes. Career years from numerous players yes.
But not the start of a dynasty lol.
You will see that I am right.
You sound like a Russian troll Benjamin. The Giants hit 240 home runs last year, most in their 140 year history. Oracle isn’t that cold in the summer. Your idea that the Giants core is getting older is pretty vague. Two players is not a substantial part of the team.
Farhan Zaidi is a genius. Top 2 POBO/GM in the game along with David Stearns. He’s already built the infrastructure that will lead to perpetual WS contention. His forward thinking moves combined with virtually unlimited $ to spend has made this franchise a juggernaut.
The best POBO/GM’s going to the largest markets will lead to the eventual death of baseball, unless changes are made to revenue sharing between teams. 7-8 Super-monstrous juggernauts vs the rest of baseball. Stearns to the Mets, Neander to the Yankees, Bloom to the Bosox, Forst to the Angels, ? to the Phillies, Hoyer? to the Cubbies. 5 years from now after tanking is virtually banned, the small-market team will have zero chance for a WS title, lower end mid-markets, only slightly better. 70% of all fan bases will have no hope before their team plays their first game on opening day.
Benjamin – I agree that the Padres will be better. I agree that the Giants (and the Dodgers) won’t win as many games as they did in 2021. But. . . “A park that doesn’t play well for power”? “Don’t have a young core emerging”? “Aren’t a huge attraction”? I think you’re not watching the same team the rest of us are.
No team is going to intentionally “tank” after such a great season. Maybe the Marlins… tanking isn’t really a thing anyway. Teams rebuild, only fans think tanking makes any sense.
When was the last time you saw Zaidi tank? Zaidi does better than tanking and he finds overlooked rookies and vets to fill the holes so they can still compete while rebuilding.
Mark love the Guasman pic. Makes him look like a knuckleballer with how the fingers are
A lot of things went right for the Giants in 2021. No need for me to point them out. The expose above did a pretty good job of assessing 2021.
Big question for Giant fans is, “What will they do for an encore?”. Well, they ain’t gonna win 107 games again. Win totals like that only come around about once every 100 years or so. But there’s enough of a core already in place ( I am assuming FZ picks up Flores’ option.) that, even without landing a big name FA, there’s still a .500+ team at the ready.
If FZ were to ask me (He won’t!), this is what I would do in no particular order.
1. Give a QO to DiScalfani. Really, how many people can turn down a guaranteed $18.4 million? Plus that’s about three times what he made in 2021.
2. I hate any more than three-year deals for pitchers for all the obvious reasons that are backed up by heartache when something goes wrong. (Strasburg fans can chime in here.). I’d offer Gausman three years and $60 million. Should get it done.
3. Sign Andrew Knapp as a backup for Casali. He’d also be, as a seasoned veteran, a good C to have in waiting at AAA in case Bart struggles early.
4. I like Cueto on a one-year deal for about $7 or $8 million.
5. Sign Starling Marte and we solve the CF problem for the next three years.
6. Would not be averse to trading for someone like Paul DeJong if the price isn’t too high (It should not be.). He’s only 28, offers nice pop and you can play him anywhere in the infield if need be. At $6 million due in 2022, that’s a bargain for 20+ HR and defensive versatility.
Fearless Prediction Dept.
Giants win 91 games in 2022 and qualify for one of the wild-cards. Beat the Brewers in the one-and-done game and then go on to beat the Cardinals in the first round.
When the playoff smoke clears, it’s LA, off a dismantling of the Braves, vs. SF in the NLCS. Giants prevail this time and go on to beat the White Sox in the WS. Book it! It’s a lock.
Bauman will be getting much more than 3/60. That offer would be a non starter.
Dunno. There’s some mileage on that body. Plus, he wasn’t all that great in Baltimore. IMHO, it would be a big mistake on FZ’s part to pony up one of those $100+ million deals. There should be less expensive options available when all the potential free agent SP are known.
Cueto’s gone. League minimum or maybe 1-2 mil would be the only way they should bring him back, and that would make him a AAA starter/bullpen arm, with the occasional call up in an emergency, but I don’t think he should be on the 40-man at all
The Giants won’t even make the playoffs in 2022 much less win the WS.
Nothing wrong with dreams or fantasies though.
Keep on keeping on Lou.
I can see Farhan getting creative in a trade with Oakland. Maybe Manaea, Chapman, and taking on the Andrus and Piscotty dead weight contracts for Ramos, Corry, Will Wilson, Slater, Hjelle, another lower minor leaguer or two and a subsidized Longoria.
Clears off half of Oakland’s payroll, they get some of SFs top ten prospects and the Giants get to restock for another run.
Capacalhoon – No. You’re giving up too much.
No way the Giants should be giving up that much for that little. Especially when Chapman isn’t much of a hitter
Blue Jays are interested.
Wilson Contreras is on the market. Not a bad move to tutor Bart. Then flip him at the trade deadline.
He’d be a rental. And a pricey one. Not happening.
Contreras wouldn’t fit the SF clubhouse. Contreras plays for himself and wouldn’t fit the “next man up” mentality that the Giants run by
The Giants will miss Posey behind the plate. He calls a game like few other catchers. This will also impact the Giants ability to sign free agent pitchers.
Contreras needs to be Yankee after NY trades Sanchez for a bag of sunflower seeds.
I think the biggest issue with Posey retiring (which I respect) is NOT that FA pitchers will stay away, but that Bart would have been excellent trade bait for a high-end starting pitcher prospect (from the Marlins or Guardians).
If Buster had stayed, it would have given Bailey and Genoves another year of seasoning. Now, unless the Giants go with a veteran FA catcher (and it’s a lackluster bunch), they almost certainly have to give Bart a shot (at the expense of missing out on a young arm).
Better to keep Bart for the long run than to trade him for a pitcher and then need a catcher in a year or two anyway.
One of the few catchers that calls a game that well aside from Posey is Casali though so the defense won’t be too much worse, but offensively Casali doesn’t compare
“Since Crawford is now locked up for two more years and star shortstop prospect Marco Luciano is at most a year away from the Show”
That might be wishful thinking. He struggled badly in high A ball. Maybe 2024.
Yeah, lets cherry pick those 36 games in A+. He still has an .868 OPS in his 2 season MiL career. I’d question anyone’s baseball acumen that would suggest a guy is no longer a star prospect based on 36 games.
Taylor should be the number 1 priority after signing Belt. They also need La Stella to play 3B as they platoon Longoria. I have full confidence in Farhan assembling the pitching staff. Bart’s high strikeout rate is scary. In my mind, he still might be a trade candidate if Farhan is also nervous. Bieber for Bart.
Belt is not a priority by any means. They have 1 starter currently while they have at least 3 guys(not including Wilmer) that can play first
I wouldn’t call the Giants season anything other than what it was, which is outstanding. That being said, I see repeating type of success as almost impossible for next season. So much of their success was predicted upon pushing the right button, in a given big spot, and having the right guy come through. I don’t know if it’s wise to expect encore performances from some of the returning players. Some of the players they bring on will require everyday roles, which may diminish the value of other players. With all of the roster openings they have to fill, I don’t see them covering all the angels as efficiently again, but only because of how uniquely remarkable this season was for the Giants. Still think they’ll be good. But how good? Going to interesting to find out.
@ wallabee. No team should feel pressure to repeat a 107-win season as that’s just off the charts.
2022 was the year the team was targeting to make a leap to competing for a championship again, so 2021 was just a very pleasant bonus. It’s on management now to utilize the vast resources available to stay on top. By February they will have likely shed the label of being an aged team, and by then we’ll see what steps they have taken for embark on a planned long-term reign of competitiveness. It will be interesting.
3 things–1 i have been a Giants fan since the late 50s—so i have seen a lot of Giants games over the decades—2021 will not be repeated with 107 wins–you dont have to be a baseball historian to know that—2—having said that, the Giants are doing things the right way—both on and off the field –do you know the Giants FO petitioned the League to pay Posey his 3 million option, even though he technically was not due it with his retirement??-that shows class—3–as far as free agents and trades, i like all other commentators can only speculate—but from what i have seen of FZ, i have a lot of faith in him to make the right moves–will all work out??-nope–but he seems to have a plan, and it has worked so far—
@ MikeSadek. I have to agree with your confidence in FZ. And not just because of the 2021, the team has been making very smart decisions the past few years now, many of which were not thought to be so smart at the time. The definition of success in the NL west (where 3 of the top 7 or so MLB payroll teams reside) is handicapped. It’s where a 95 win season might not be rewarded with a playoff spot.
Brewer88—thanx for comment–i would love to think all of FZ moves will work out, but the reality is not there—but to give credit to where its due, he has done an admirable job so far—i was one who even as a fan, figured all the old guys would run , or should say quietly walk off into the sunset and put SF in a hole for a time—and you are doubly right that even if they can get to 90 plus wins in 22, they may not make the playoffs—i consider 2021 a gift, one i did not see coming—now the hard part—filling all the holes in the rotation–can he work magic again and pick up some tired SP who need some TLC like Wood and DeSclafani, and even Gausman, and turn them into winners??-only time will tell–one suggestion i saw earlier i like a lot–and that is go after Lorenzen–he wont be pricy, he wants to start, but if he cant, he is a decent reliever and can also pinch hit or play OF in the pinch–that type of player is right up SF alley
The answer of who the Giants should sign positionally this winter is Seiya Suzuki. Period. The Giants need to upgrade the outfield and Suzuki could be a Giant for years. Gold Glove defense. Potential big power. Walks more than he strikes out.
He’s Zaidi’s guy if you ask me.
If I were pulling the levers and giving out money, I’d bring in Semien (starts mostly at 2b, but also can spell at SS and 3b), Gausman (he’s a #2 in my book), Scherzer (if the Dogers don’t already have him zipped up) and offer DeSclafani the QO. I would not offer a QO to Belt, and I’d try to deal LaStella. I’d also make at least one deal for a stud MLB-ready starter prospect knowing that I’d have to give up a quality prospect in return.
I disagree with you on a few parts. First, I would love for Scherzer to don the orange and black by the Bay, but he had big time arm fatigue after a game in the NLCS, and I think he might be on his way out after a year, two if he’s lucky. I also disagree on dealing LaStella. Great leadoff hitter that has a history of limiting strikeouts and handling RHP very well. Also can play first, second, and third if they really need him to. I would also be careful in dealing for a stud MLB starter. I have a feeling that in order to get that done it would cost Bart(who is now needed) as well as at least one pitching prospect, and the Giants don’t have enough pitching prospects to start dealing from that area. I’d say try to knock out as many needs as possible in free agency, and try to lose as few prospects as possible
if the Cubs fail to extend Contreras, he would be a good candidate for the Giants. He has a year of refereeing left and a trade to give two mid-level prospects that may land Contreras in San Francisco.
A trade similar to the one they made for Kris Bryant may be the one necessary for a Willson Contreras year
He would not be a good candidate for the Giants at all. As I stated earlier in the comment section, he does my fit the “next man up” mentality, and therefore he won’t end up in SF
The most underrated player on the Giants and maybe all of baseball is Darin Ruf . Hope he can become the every day DH if the DH is instituted . Ruf has never had a full season as a starting player except in the KBo where he put up outstanding numbers .It is amazing how
he has been able too hit while sometimes sitting 4 or 5 days at a time with only a pinch hit at bat here and there . his numbers discounting pinch hit at bats is pretty amazing . You’ve
got to get him in the lineup every day to see what he can really do for you.