After 12 Major League seasons, Buster Posey has called it a career. Alongside his wife Kristen, the longtime Giants catcher announced his retirement in a press conference Thursday afternoon.
Going into the offseason, the only question surrounding Posey seemed to be whether the Giants would simply exercise their $22MM club option on the catcher for next season, or if the two sides would work out a longer-term extension. Posey hit .304/.390/.499 with 18 home runs in 454 plate appearances in 2021, rebounding to prime form after opting out of the 2020 season, and struggling through a 2019 season in the aftermath of hip surgery.
Instead, Posey will now hang up his cleats, ending an outstanding run as a Bay Area icon. Drafted with the fifth overall pick of the 2008 draft, Posey made his big league debut in 2009 and then won Rookie Of The Year honors in 2010, helping lead the Giants to their first World Series title since 1954.
That was the first of three championship rings for Posey, as he became the face of this era of Giants baseball. Posey’s long list of achievements includes the 2012 NL MVP Award, seven All-Star selections, four Silver Slugger Awards, and a Gold Glove in 2016. He retires with 158 home runs and a career slash line of .302/.372/.460 over 5607 plate appearances, and is likely heading for a Hall Of Fame induction in five years’ time.
While Posey’s outstanding 2021 leaves the impression that he has plenty left in the tank, it shouldn’t be ignored that at this time last year, a retirement following the 2021 campaign seemed quite plausible, or even likely. The hip surgery was the latest in a series of notable injuries for Posey throughout his career, including leg and ankle injuries suffered in a collision with Scott Cousins in 2011 (the impetus for MLB changing its rules about baserunners can make contact with catchers while trying to score). Most troubling, Posey also suffered multiple concussions over the course of his 12 years, and there was long speculation that the Giants would eventually move him over to a semi-permanent first base role.
Posey is only 34 years old, but with all of his accumulated wear-and-tear, it could be that he simply preferred to leave on the high note of a great personal season and the Giants’ 107-win campaign. Posey and his wife are also the parents of four children, including adopted twin girls born prematurely last summer (which Posey said factored into his decision to opt out of the 2020 season). There is certainly nothing left to prove for Posey, and he can now enjoy a well-deserved retirement and more time with his family.
While Posey’s role in Giants history can’t truly be replaced, the team hopes it already has a worthy heir apparent in Joey Bart, the second overall pick of the 2018 draft. Posey’s return to form created some questions about how exactly San Francisco would juggle playing time behind the plate, yet now the catching situation looks like it will consist of Bart and incumbent veteran Curt Casali. The Giants could quite possibly target another veteran to compete with Casali in Spring Training and provide more backing in case Bart (who has played in only 35 Major League games) needs more time to get acclimated.
San Francisco also now has at least $22MM in extra payroll space next season, not that the team didn’t already have plenty of spending capacity. The Giants’ surprising 107-win year has left the team well ahead of schedule in their rebuild, and the focus will squarely be on contending for a World Series title in 2022. While truly big expenditures haven’t been part of the strategy thus far for president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi, he will have every avenue open to him this winter, whether it be major free agent signings, big-ticket trade acquisitions, re-signing notable in-house free agents like Brandon Belt, or all of the above.
Andrew Baggarly of the Athletic first reported Posey’s decision to retire.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Well that came out of nowhere. Congrats on a hall of fame career!
Holy crap. Good thing the Giants didn’t trade Joey Bart. Posey is really turning down $22 million to play one year for a championship caliber team? I figured he would give it one more year at least.
Giants now in need for a catcher; should work out a trade with the Yankees for Sanchez…would probably cost nothing more than Posey’s used jock strap…wait that’s an overpayment…
This is getting a bit old. I think you need some new lines.
Maybe when he was out with his family in 2020, he realized it was more important to be with family than on the road making 22 million (or whatever it is). For whatever reason, a courageous move by Posey. I hope it all works out for him.
I tried. Taking the criticism in stride.
Quite a step down from Posey to Sanchez. They may look elsewhere for someone better,
I thumbed this up. But at the same time…he has the rest of his life to hang with his family and spend his money. Retiring now might literally be the difference between an admirable career and the HOF.
A definite NO on Sanchez. Sanchez definitely not in same league as Posey offensively or defensively. Sanchez will never be a leader, have the character like Posey, or be a Hall of Fame player.
Just a thought, but for $22 million he could bring his family (& extended family) with him on the road, buy new clothes in every town, bring full-time tutors for the kids, stay in luxurious suites, hire a full time traveling chef, make significant donations to charities, invest in the futures of his kids and grandkids and neighborhood kids, and then have $15 million to do whatever he wants with. I’d say playing 1 more year is not a bad option.
@hope, I see it like you, but that notion (playing for one more year for a mere $22MM) is seen thru our eyes, not Buster’s. I am not ready to have a Giants team without that dude behind the dish, but it ain’t about me. I trust Buster is doing exactly what he wants and I wish he and his family nothing but the very best in his retirement. What a Giant!!!! You will be missed Mr. Posey!!!
He’s a Red Sox fan. I wouldn’t expect much.
@Curly, I suspect you’re right. When one considers how hard catching is on the knees and ankles, he may see being able to take a knee to play with his child far more important than continuing his playing career. He’s already won 2 WS. What’s left? Keep playing while the family life takes a hit?
Leaving on a high note is underrated, as Constanta reminds us.
Err 3 WS, my So Cal bias likely lead to that typo.
Coatanza*
Costanza*
He would tattoo NL west pitching.
They have Bart waiting in the wings. I am not sure the Yankees will ever give up on Sanchez, even though the guy can’t hit or catch at an average level.
not really, if you have kids you know that formative years with them, you don’t get those back if you give them up. he has 2 sets of twins, one that they adopted as premature births just in 2019, has already had an illustrative career and he wants to be there for his kids while they are young – I am gonna miss him on the field but I also understand where he is coming from. I don’t think that it will in any way ding him for HOF, I mean if he doesn’t get in no catcher in this era deserves to go in.
Late in the season, i saw him take a line drive off the face-mask and shards of plastic went everywhere. How many more years could he be expected to catch given his history of concussions? High character guy to leave money on the table and retire.
@Redwolves3 Not defending Sanchez but if you’re expecting them to replace Posey with someone who fits all that criteria, you’re in for a long winter.
can you really say the 2022 Giants are guaranteed or anything close to a lock to be a championship caliber team?
Depends on the development of Bart and how free agency treats them. They’re a well
run organization, I’m sure they’ll be giving my Dodgers hell for years to come
They won 107 games in 2021, have 100 million to spend in free agency this year, and have a top tier farm system that’s starting to graduate it’s players. So yeah, they’re probably a championship caliber team.
107 wins is Championship Caliber. Nothing is a lock or guaranteed.
No, the Giants do not look like a 100 win team next year. But to me they looked like an 87 win team at the start of 2021 and they did so much better. So yes I think the Dodgers will win the division in 2022 but I think the Giants will be back in the playoffs, at least more likely than the Padres, Phillies, Mets or Reds. I thought Posey would play one more year especially with a possible DH, but good for him if he is happy.
No team is a lock to win championship, but the Giants are a lock to be underestimated by Dodger fans again in 22
@Brewer88 I underestimated them like most people did. I’ll try not to do that again while trying not to play up Zaidi’s smarts too much.
But part of LAD-SFG and to lesser extent LAD-SDP rivalry is for the smaller markets to hate LA and for the big market teams to see the smaller siblings as lesser than they are.
No one ever chants “Beat SF, or beat SD, or beat Boston!”
It’s the weight the big spenders always have to bear in the David vs Goliath trope of the sports world.
Perhaps true Paddy, but I was replying to McCourt’s delusional dissing of the Giants on the heels of their divisional championship season. I guess there’s bitterness.
Brewer88….I think you’re right. I try to avoid people who think being a fan of their team means zealously hating all opponents and being a fanatic for their own team.
I understand it when the person is 13 years old, but for adults to be like that is troubling. Before McCourt does fit this description. For their sake, I hope they are 13 years old.
They don’t chant those things because they won’t get off their damn phones!
Signed a Giants Fan.
#BeatLA #Posey4Pres2024
By championship caliber team, are they trading him to the braves?
That was a really clever way to shoehorn something about the Braves into the comments for an article that has nothing to do with them. I’m impressed.
And before you go there- Yes. I know the Braves are a much better team than the Phillies.
WTF does that even mean
Not sure the giants are a championship team lots of holes to fill and not much of a young core. Think we will see this year more of a fluke than a reality if they don’t make some big signings
They’ve got 100m to spend in free agency. They’ll make some signings and fill those holes. Most teams have major holes right now. The Giants could win 15 less games next year and still be a “championship caliber team”
They need to trade Bart regardless of Posey. One player should NOT change their off-season plans. They knew this was a possibility. Especially with a universal DH coming up, it makes sense to try and trade Bart for a starting pitcher and even if caselli and another scrappy FA catcher is our backstop, that bat isn’t replacing posey, the defense is. That bat is replacing the pitcher’s spot.
I’d go for Corey Seager. Seager has the offensive career most like Buster Posey’s, a .290-.305 guy with 17-25HR power. And you shore up 3B.
I’d like Marte as well, and Robbie Ray and Chris Taylor for 2B/OF. Marte can play CF year one.
Gotta think about where the depth is. Do you want La Stella/Wilmer Flores/Longoria getting AB’s? Or Seager, Marte, Seager, Wade and Ruf? A Webb/Ray/Sandy Alcantra(Bart trade)/Wood is a good start to a solid Rotation.
Andy,
I could not disagree more. I root against the Giants but they have been smart to keep Bart.
They have enough money available to acquire FA pitchers.
Why are people down on Bart? Because his cup of coffee at 25 years old went cold? So what? Posey’s first taste of MLB didn’t go that great either.
Time to see what Bart can do.
Giants aren’t getting Alcantara for Bart straight up.
Alcantara has ace stuff. Bart has been up already and showed very little so far. Just saying.
Good point Scott. Posey hit I believe .117(?) in 2009
He may have informed the Giants during the season he was considering retirement. Even if he wasn’t sure, that would have caused them to hesitate trading Bart.
This not a championship caliber team. This season was an anomaly. Even with Posey they were looking at 83-88 wins next season.
Still only 34 and could have played another season at 22 million. Great career but I think he just wants to have family time now.
The $22 million isn’t a player option. It’s. Team option that was probably gonna get declined in favor of a cheaper extension.
Actually, the Giants were prepared to exercise the option if he wanted to play next season
Really?
hof? not
Actually, a reasonable possibility for Cooperstown, but likely NOT first year of voting.. But, reasonable possibility, and reasonable possibility of BBWAA vote, not veterans committee. https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
Yea he has HoF career numbers before you take into account his accolades. They measure HoF likelihood on baseball reference based on stats, and he’d be the 14/16 HoF catchers, before taking into account his 2x Comeback PotY, couple GG’s, couple SS’s, 3 World Series rings, and at least 3 no hitter’s caught.
That all factors in ON Top of the stats that already rank him better than 2 catchers that are already In the HoF.
Add in his being a good guy/“played the game the right way” Jazz, and he’s a shoe in, 1st ballot.
It’s not the hall of “best numbers”, otherwise Bonds and Clemons would be in. It’s a fraternity and Buster’s .304 and counting stats/7-year peak/WAR are taken into account as the 14th catcher out of 16 HoF’ers at the position BEFORE you add in his 3 Rings/7 AS’s/4x SS/3x GG/RotY/2x CPotY/Batting Title/MVP/being known as a top 2 defensive catcher of his time, top 2 offensive catcher of his time, as well as being a media darling/fan favorite/face of a franchise that won titles at his peak.
All of those are factors. He’s easily getting in, and there’s a higher chance he goes in on the 1st ballot than there is of him not making it at all. Alan Trammell got in the Hall. I don’t think Buster Posey will have a problem getting in bro♂️
Bro, back!
Don’t forget that Simmons needed the veterans to vote him in. Don’t forget that non-NY writers couldn’t see Munson’s value enough …
Also, it took the MUCH better Gary Carter six ballots, and Pizza Man needed four, among other modern inductees.
So, no, not “easily” getting in.
(I’ll be updating my blog with the additional info.)
Second response, plus note that I’m taking names of homers for a follow-up post.
EXACTLY TWO catchers have gotten in, EVER, on the first ballot. Buster Posey is neither one of them.
I don’t think he’s got the numbers. just didn’t play quite enough games. borderline at best.
@Socratic:
You are coming across as a pompous ahole. Just saying. I don’t think I’ll be reading your blog.
By the way, my name is Bhambrave.
Take into account how Posada was treated, his and Posey’s careers are similars in numbers with the difference being that Jorge played at the same time when there were a lot of exceptional catchers and Posey played in a time when Yadier is being considered one of the best catchers.
The offensive numbers of Posey and Posada are similar career-wise, Posey won an MVP and a few GG, Posada came in at 6th in the MVP in his best season which is VERY similar to Posey’s MVP season:
Posey:
0.336 AVG / 0.408 OBP / 0.526 SLG / 0.957 OPS / 171 OPS+ / 7.3 offense WAR
Posada:
0.338 AVG / 0.426 OBP / 0.543 SLG / 0.970 OPS / 153 OPS+ / 6.6 offense WAR
Fielding is where Posey was a better at blocking potential passed balls and nailing baserunners, being 6% better than league average while Posada was more or less average every year (had seasons of 40% and 37% caught stealing and finished 2% below average).
BUT here’s the thing: non-Yankee players usually get more love from voters so it is quite possible that he makes the HoF in his first or second try while Jorge didn’t even sniff it.
@mikhelb just look at the OPS+ numbers you posted. That stat is adjusted for the eras they played in. Posey was almost 20% better than him compared to the competition in those respective seasons. Posada played during the “steroid” era and unfortunately for the clean guys that cloud will hover over everyone’s stats from that time. Posada was a fantastic hitting catcher, this coming from a lifelong Mets fan. Posey is certainly a Hall of Famer in my eyes. Anyone know who may be on the ballot on his first year? If he doesn’t get in his first year the ballot could get crazy after that.. Pujols, Verlander, Greinke, etc. depending on who retires when. But I think especially the newer younger more stat oriented voters will put Posey in on the first ballot and the crusty old timers love his “intangibles.”
This will certainly be an interesting test of the supposed “Rule of 2000.” Posey only wound up with exactly 1,500 hits, which is a huge issue in his Hall candidacy.
The voting criteria specifically prohibit any such quantitative rules. So where you get this, who the hell knows?
Umm…It has been talked about for months. His year off with the new kids probably influenced his decision.
R.I.P. Giants catcher guy. I’ll never forget that time Roy Hobbs struck you out in back of the carnival tent by the railroad tracks. I hope now you’ll stop using your telepathic powers to get me to build useless junk that just sits around the house. My wife does not appreciate it. And you never came over despite saying you would.
Getting out before the Giants cheating scandal comes to light this offseason.
if you think the giants cheated you didn’t watch any giants games.
shut up dummy you have no proof of any cheating clown. stop talking and better yet stop posting.
Dodgers fan here. I really, really, really hate it when the Giants do well, but I respect their performance in 2021. They didn’t cheat.
Wow
Does he have the accolades to make the HOF? The numbers obviously aren’t there but MVP, gold gloves, all star games, silver sluggers….plus lost a year with covid….had he made 2000 hits I think he’s a sure fire….but he’s 500 hits short of that. I’m guessing just short?
Are you kidding me?
That’s laugh out loud funny.
Posey likely gets in at some point. All the old dinosaurs will be dead in 15-20 years and younger voters will remember the 3 WS titles and other awards instead of the counting stats.
There’s some people on here that don’t think Yadi is a HOF either. He’s getting in first ballot.
@iverbure Hate the Giants with every cell in my body but yeah. Posey belongs in the HOF. And I never understood the concept behind a “first ballot Hall of Famer.” For me, you either belong in the Hall of Fame or you don’t. If I think you belong in the Hall, I’m not going to make you wait a few years to get in because “reasons.” Similarly, if I don’t think you belong in the Hall, I’m not going to change my mind no matter how long you wait unless you show up to my kid’s birthday party or something.
again, Bench and Pudge were the only 1st ballot catchers. Yadi is nowhere near either of those two, nor is Posey.
The concept of first ballot has a lot to do with who else is on the ballot that year. Posey gets in, if not on the first ballot, then a year or two later. He’s been too good for too long to not be in the HOF.
With all the debate about numbers, the actual criteria for election are usually ignored. So here they are: “Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
Posey gets in, and you shouldn’t have to be a fan of any one team to understand why.
I think it might be more likely that the older voters give more weight to WS titles and other awards, while younger voters focus on “counting stats” like WAR, OPS, etc.
HA! If Posey is a HOF worthy so is Posada & as Casey Stengel used to say, “If you don’t believe me you can look it up.”
posey has accumulated more WAR in what will be 7 less years of play than Yadi so anyone that thinks yadi is a sure thing but posey doesn’t deserve it needs to revisit what they think the qualifying factors should be for the HOF
And if they do either one, they would be ignoring the actual voting criteria. Just like everyone is doing here, I guess.
HOF usually likes length numbers over a few outstanding seasons. I think he will come up a little short 2,000 hits would looked great. Endless he announces that he is retiring because of injuries like concussions etc could be a different story.
Wrong.. Posada is not only less likely, and less deserving, than Posey, he’s also less likely, and a little less deserving, than Molina.
https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
The hof is just a guess no comparable. You can argue achievement and longevity and be right either way. If a short career player gets in catcher is a good position.
Very well said @Blue Skies. I’d like Kershaw and Buster to be in the same class of inductees. Imagine how good of pals those two would be if they had been on the same team??
NEITHER Posey NOR Molina gets in on the first ballot. Or close.
As I work on a follow-up to today’s post? https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
EXACTLY TWO catchers have gotten in on the first ballot. And, if you’re being a Cards homer like Andy High Roller for Posey? Stop. It’s embarrassing. Big time Cards fan here. Was at old Busch when Glenn Brummer stole home. Yadi’s not a first=ballot HOFer and not a guaranteed HOFer period.
Posey and MadBum are complex decisions.
Posey and Jason Heyward have the same number of homers and Posey is only 5 career WAR ahead of Heyward.
1500 hits and a 0.302 average with good defense over a short career. I would vote Posey in but I would not quarrel with anyone who disagrees. Who is more deserving and active if their careers ended today? Pujols, Cabrera, scherzer, verlander, Kershaw, Greinke, trout, Freeman?, Molina?, altuve?, not too many, certainly not enough at bats for Harper, Machado, Betts, Judge, Soto, Acuna, deGrom, Ohtani, Bieber, steroids knock out Nelson Cruz and Robinson Cano.
Freddy Lindstrom had 1742 hits and one website says that is the least hits in hof and Posey has 1500. So it is not a shoe-in but three flags sure helps.
Comparing a catcher to an OF is a non-starter.
What is Jason Kendall was on Giants and Posey on Pirates. Kendall had 660 hits more than Posey. But the biggest comparisons will be to Yadi and Thurman Munson. Close call for sure but three championships and being liked by media helps.
I liked Kendall. He was a great hitter (no power though) and played good defense. Good speed. He was more like a second baseman playing catcher. He played longer than Posey has. He never quite reached the ceiling that Posey did, but he was good.
Offensively Yadier doesn’t belong to the HoF just as Posada doesn’t belong because of his defense. Deffensively Yadier does belong in the HoF. It all comes down to how a player is viewed by voters.
Posada and Posey have very similar non-quantifiable stats career-wise (normalized stats, advance metrics created to give some stats more weight, etc.) although in quantifiable stats (“classic” stats) both are separate because of Jorge’s 5 extra years playing: 500 more hits, 100 more homeruns, 400 more walks (also 700 more K’s), 300 more RBI, 300 more runs, 600 more total bases, etc.
Of course! My point is that if that site is accurate, Posey will literally have the least hits of any position player in the hall of fame. Not among the least, the VERY least hits. I still think that he may get in, but it is partly because of public and media bias liking his reasons for not playing more, e.g., the pandemic, concussions and being a good Dad. Plus there is this huge bias toward players on winning teams and three championships is impressive. But does that mean that MadBum also gets in?
Mike helb: I disagree with your assessment and here’s why – Although you correctly cite Posada’s D was weaker than his offense, and vice versa for Yadi; I postulate that if any DH gets in the HOF, you cannot prohibit a catcher for being outstanding in one side, while average on the other.
In short, DH is only good on offense, so average defense shouldn’t be prohibitive. I believe all 3 are HOF-worthy, particularly if you are only looking at stats. Posey has 54 or 58 BWAR & FWAR , respectively. For examples, both Mickey Cochran and Bill Dickey are HOF catchers and have lower WAR.
…and the lack of counting numbers (while being very good defensively but not elite) means he falls short on the matter of “player’s record.” Whether his peak ability, contributions to the Giants, and other intangibles are enough to make up for that and eventually get in is anyone’s guess at this point.
@bhambrave That should be obvious. Defensive spectrum on line 2!
Well, sometimes the snobs who vote focus on numbers, sometimes they don’t. Great career, arguably HOF…depends upon how one views HOF. In the nba, heck they’d put the entire 2014 squad in there. Prob best catcher of his time, which says something.
But heck, if you are a pro athlete, every day is an award. It’s like boss’ day: every day is boss’ day lol.
nah, he’s making it for sure
At some point we need to get off this numbers thing. Buster Posey is absolutely a hall of fame player.
Philliesfans215; we’re a numbers driven and we want hall of fame elite players over a time. Not even 2,000 hits if he gets in have time adjust the thinking for everyone else.
Some like Dale Murphy had a much better career mvp all star selections; number wise and hasn’t made it in.
If only the downvote button were still here. This isn’t “Ms. Congeniality.’ Whether by old counting numbers or new sabermetric numbers, numbers determine whether you’re in Cooperstown or not.
Even after citing the voting criteria that verbatim completely disproves the argument that numbers are all that matter, some will continue insist that numbers are all that matter. It’s the strange and sad world we live in now where facts are irrelevant if you don’t want to believe in them.
Blue Skies LA: It’s a great point, I believe folks are only looking at stats because they have definitive comparable metrics. They cannot quantify the attributes listed in the criteria because of bias, subjectivity, etc, so they don’t bring it up.
I also think the statistical overdrive in today’s game changes the emphasis to a stats-only perspective. Nonetheless, you’re right and he will get in because of the criteria you referenced.
@Yankee Clipper. As much as it seems to endlessly frustrate the stat-heads, the voting criteria are designed to be non-quantitative. They even state that nobody should be voted in strictly for having achieved a top stat. How much clearer could that be? The HoF is designed to admit players who not only perform individually, but also contribute to their teams in qualitative ways, and (perhaps the most subjective one) over the course of their careers typify the character that MLB wants to see a ballplayer. So this is the answer to the question “what about Steve Garvey?” (and “why not Pete Rose?”). But we can point that out all day long and generate not much interest in this reality of how players are elected to the HoF.
Look at Curt Schilling and Jeff Kent and don’t tell me that personality doesn’t matter.
@philliesfan215 exactly! Pedro and Koufax didn’t have nearly as many wins (garbage stat) as most HOF pitchers but they may be the 2 best pitchers of all time!
While not a perfect comparison, I think Joe Mauer is the test case. I think Mauer will make it but that will take some time, if not a veterans committee decision (hopefully it won’t take that long).
Rings is a huge difference between Posey and Mauer and I think that it matters even more at the catcher position. A great catcher makes an entire pitching staff a lot better.
But Mauer was better in his prime, some would arguably say much better. And both were good behind the dish at calling games. Anecdotally, Mauer at least caught one Cy Young win (Santana in 2006) while Posey caught none.
Umm I guess Tim Lincecum didn’t win 2 Cy Young’s…
Not when Posey was catching. Lincecum won his last in 2009 and Posey played 7 games that year (incidentally Mauer played 35 games in 2004 when Santana won his first Cy Young). Bengie Molina caught both of Lincecum’s Cy Young seasons. Lincecum’s WAR under 3 seasons of Molina: 17 1/2. Under Posey, about 2. It’s only correlation and certainly not causation but I brought it up to be provocative.
Correction: under six years of Posey, it was a little under 4.0. I originally included his last disastrous season with the Angels.
gold gloves? try one in 2016
as in, not plural
Derp
Reasonably possible … but not first year.
As a sensible-minded Cards fan, still a higher possibility than Yadi.
My take here: https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
Are you kidding? Posey retired now instead of having to face Yadi again in five years
Yadi isn’t going in on the first ballot either, but he’s got a FAR better case than Posey.
Ridiculous. Posey played half the number seasons as Yadi, and is still worth more (WAR/JAWs) over his career.
He’s easily a 1st ballot HoF. Remember, if stats mattered so much, Bonds would be in. He checks every box on the “plays the game right” list, as well as being Top 2 at his position his entire career. The only reason he doesn’t have a GG/SS every year is because the other guy in that Top 2 was in the same league.
Baseball reference HoF tracker takes into account ONLY counting stats, and he’s the 14th out of 16 HoF C’s BEFORE you factor in 7x AS, 4x SS, 3x GG, 2x CPotY, RotY, MVP, Batting Title, 3+ no-hitters caught, AND 3 World Series rings.
Alan Trammel didn’t have a 1/6 of those accolades.
Posey is an EASY vote for these guys because it’s already difficult being an average offensive player while squatting for 9 innings a day, but being an elite 2-way player? Being known as one of the best pitch framers in the game? All of this factors in. They aren’t given a black and white list of just names and numbers, it’s the guy’s MLB career overall. If Posey played 1B his entire career, he’s probably not a HoF, but he didn’t. He played catcher, and his numbers alone place him as better than 3 catchers that ARE ALREADY IN THE HALL, before you add in his accolades and awards.
It’s a no brainer and it’s kinda silly to even make it an argument. If it was about numbers like 3,000 hits, then why doesn’t 762HR just automatically get a guy in? Or why isn’t the guy with the MOST ALL TIME hits in? Because numbers are only a part of it, and how you were viewed by the media/clubhouse/other players is another huge part of it. Buster’s rap sheet is cleaner than a newborn baby’s. He’s never been involved in anything negative off the field and has been known for always having the time to sign a ball or give an interview.
He steps up in the playoffs and when he was healthy, his team was winning. When he wasn’t, they weren’t. Folks forget Buster had hip surgery but didn’t want to miss out Bochy’s final year. Having 2020 off was both the rest he needed to play effectively and the time off that showed him he wants to watch his children grow up.
There isn’t a single voter that doesn’t want a Buster Hug.
Buster is literally part of why Bochy is going to make the HoF. Buster’s catching was crucial for the success of the Giant’s rotations and bullpens and was part of why they didn’t have a prob signing FA pitchers. First thing they’d say when introduced as Giants is “I’ve always wanted to throw to Buster.”
All of that, those are all factors.
But without all of that, he is still 14 out of the 16 HoF catchers, on black and white numbers ALONE.
Sorry Andy, but Posey will not be a first-ballot hall of famer. I would be willing to bet ten grand on that if you care to take me up on that offer. The rings, MVP, all stars, silver slugger awards, career with one team, etc. all help a somewhat borderline candidate. Those shiny trophies will push him into the Hall eventually. But it will take some time. Keep your eyes on Mauer when he enters the voting process. Mauer had a better and longer career, a better prime, a few more trophies, but lacks the rings of Posey. I think Ted Simmons getting voted in by the Veterans Committee also shows a more enlightened approach in voting in more catchers. I would not be shocked if it came down to the Veteran’s Committee to elect Buster Posey. I don’t think it will come to that for Mauer but I could be wrong.
NOT “easily,” per what I wrote above. Carter needed six ballots, PIazza needed four. Both had much bigger WARs. Both played in the Big Apple at least part of their careers, for better or for worse.
In? Yes.
Easy? No.
Might want to tone down the Giants homerism just a touch.
That said, he is NOT Steve Garvey.
Note the number of ballots Carter and Piazza needed! Gotta disagree with you on Mauer, and not because lack of rings. More WAR as a catcher, but as many games 1B/DH combined as catcher, but without the normal power, etc. for those positions. That was noted at the time he was moved to 1B.
The only times stats don’t matter is when other issues keep players OUT of the Hall of Fame (the Black Sox, Pete Rose, the PED guys, and Curt Schilling). It doesn’t work the same way in reverse.
Posey will of course also get credit for his awards and superb offensive rate stats and will likely get in eventually (by the Era Committee if not the BBWAA), but overall his stats and accolades combined only make him a borderline case at best. (Also, he may have won a couple more Gold Gloves had he not had to compete for them against Yadier Molina his entire career, but by no means was he such an elite defender that he would’ve had an entire shelf of them without Yadi around.)
Even the argument that he was better than 2 of the catchers already in the Hall doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll get it and further supports the idea that he’s a borderline candidate. Those 2 guys were probably controversial picks themselves, and you can’t just lower the Hall’s standards to the lowest common denominator of the worst selections, otherwise we’d be letting in almost everyone who had a better career than Lloyd Waner.
WHAT THE ^&:$
The rigors of catching. I’m not that surprised.
see yadi
Yadi’s refusal to retire has hurt his HOF perception if anything…. If he retired after 2018 he’d seem like less of a Vizquel and more of an actual superstar (which he was during his prime)
Yadi is a finalist for the GG and made the all-star team this year?
Have you seen Yadi’s OPS+ the last 3 seasons?
Yadi has still posted seasons of 2+ WAR a year (or the prorated equivalent in 2020) recently. Him continuing to play hasn’t hurt his Hall perception at all. Even his recent offensive numbers are still average or better for a starting catcher.
Wait what….
Hmm, he did opt out of 2020, but he’s leaving a lot of cheddar on the table even at 34….No last call or long kiss good-bye? From what I have heard, he’s well respected around the league as well..
…wish him well….
So long, sweet prince.
Wait what?!
Wtf
HOLY CRAP
Sad but in line with giants retiring early for family. Thanks for everything buster I’ll never forget being at game 5 of the World Series in 2014!
I’m a bit stunned. As I’m sure the entire baseball world will be with this news. As a Dodgers fan, he was a pain for the last decade and I’m quite happy that he’s retiring.
As a baseball fan, he was an absolute class act and an all around, amazing player to watch. Congrats on the fantastic career and enjoy retirement.
With the MVP, 3 World Series Rings, and ROY, I think he’s Canton bound. Thoughts?
I don’t think he had enough receptions or sacks to get into Canton….But I think he’s a Hall-of-Famer….
That’s what I get for fixing my fantasy football line-up as I read baseball news. Sorry about that everyone, my mistake.
Props to you for acknowledging it, man! :0)
For the HOF, the awards and championships obviously help, and being the face of a franchise for the past decade means a lot. On the other hand, his overall stats are maybe just short, which might surprise some people. He’s behind the average HOF catcher in career numbers, which will not be helped by an early retirement at age 34. If he makes it, I think it will be because of the rings, the awards, the “fame”, and maybe a general discount given on his stats just because he’s a catcher.
He’s two WAR ahead of Molina, and had a longer peak. In terms of WAR, Molina only had two outstanding years. The rest were merely good to very good.
I think its going to be hard. veru few catchers in the hall overall, especially at his career length. he’s probbaly got a better case than Munson, but how much so? I think he does have a good shot down the line, but in BBWAA voting he might not have enough.
Munson and Posey are remarkably similar, and Munson never came close (15% voting in his first year of eligibility, below 10% for the other 14) to making the HoF.
Posey: 12 years, 44.9 WAR, ROY, one MVP, three rings, .302/.372/.460, 129 OPS+, one Gold Glove, 1500 hits, 158 HR, 729 RBI, 663 runs
Munson: 11 years, 46.1 WAR, ROY, one MVP, two rings, .292/.346/.410, 116 OPS+, three Gold Gloves, 1558 hits, 113 HR, 701 RBI, 696 runs
I don’t see Posey making it, especially when far more deserving players (Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Dwight Evans, etc) are not in.
I generally agree. He won’t get in the first year, or the second …
Down the road? Possibly, but not guaranteed. And, the same things for Yadi. OTOH, cuz Yankees writers hated him, none of that helped Thurman Munson, who IMO is even more deserving. https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
But … Munson was hated by Yankee writers and so got screwed by the BBWAA. I don’t know why the veterans committee has overlooked him.
You ignore that Munson didn’t “retire.” He was killed at just age 32 with years of productivity left. Likely would have hit 55 WAR.
To be fair, Munson, while he was killed as an active player, seemed to have been on a downward trajectory, at least as far as power went. But he was still a decent hitter and would have played another two, three, maybe four more seasons. I certainly would not be opposed to him being in the Hall, nor Posey.
@SocraticGadlfy: I can’t tell if you’re talking to me because of the why these comments are nested, but I didn’t forget that Munson died. imo, his premature death bolsters his HoF case and makes it stronger than Posey’s. And because Munson never came close to getting voted in, I don’t see how Posey comes close, either.
“Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
When they put Garvey in they can then consider putting Posey in.
@leftcoaster: you’re kidding, right?
No
Garvey holds the NL record for consecutive games played with 1,207, played in 10 all star games, won the all star mvp twice, won the NL MVP, won 4 gold gloves, won the NLCS MVP twice, and won a World Series. He hit .294, 2599 hits, 272 hr’s with 1,308 rbi. Posey hit .303, 1,500 hits, 158 hr’s, with 729 rbi. Of course Posey played catcher and should be expected to have weaker stats than a first baseman but come on man the numbers are nearly double. Plus Posey played smack dab in the middle of baseball’s offensive era.
Garvey’s numbers and resume are pretty impressive, he’s not out of pocket here for making that suggestion
Garvey is meh. Hall of Very Good.
And Garvey played at 1B, not catcher. Those are puny numbers for a first baseman. Don’t respond and make yourself even more laughable. Not even 40WAR. 51st in 1B JAWS
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garvest01.shtml
Garvey’s numbers blow Posey’s away. Hence, don’t consider Posey until Garvey gets in.
Garvey had 38 career WAR. Left Coaster is WAY out of pocket. Please don’t encourage him, or leave your own judgment open to scrutiny.
Steve Garvey wasn’t even a good first baseman. He only got into at least half of his all-star games because he was a Dodger, or because his manager named him as a backup.
You must not have seen him play.
You can’t compare 1B to catcher, They’re vastly different. Garvey’s numbers probably blow away most of the catchers in the HoF. There’s a reason that the HoF threshold for hitting is much lower for catchers. Comparing 1B and catcher for induction to the HoF exposes a serious lack of understanding of the different facets of the game.
Garvey was a bonafide star who earned all those all-star appearances through fan voting. He was chosen by fans to start the 1974 game as a write-in. Hall of Fame, I’m not sure though I tend to side with a bigger Hall (so few players are in its ridiculous). These days, people claim Garvey is overrated because he didn’t walk much, which wasn’t a big deal in those days. He was one of his era’s elite players, just like Maury Wills was a decade earlier. I believe both belong in Cooperstown, as does Reggie Smith and, among non-Dodgers, Bill Freehan.
Keep in mind that those Dodger teams went to the World Series three times in the 70s during the heart of the Big Red Machine era, yet have only one Hall of Famer player in Don Sutton. The Reds have three in Bench, Morgan, and Perez, and would have a fourth if not for Rose’s transgressions. So maybe the Dodgers should have another player or two from that era in Cooperstown.
Interestingly, there are anti-Garvey people who feel Dave Concepcion and his OPS+ of 88 belongs. There are also people who claim Sutton doesn’t belong, which is asinine. There is more than one way to get in and that great pitcher found his. Sutton, yes. Concepcion, no way. Garvey, quite possibly.
Garvey hurt his own case by having a very messy personal life.
He got appointed by the manager three or four times. He was voted for over Keith Hernandez at least two or three times when Hernandez was clearly the better player.
All-Star appearances are a bad metric for HOF consideration.
Just out of curiosity Gadfly, what is your own personal playing experience as a baseball player?
And he won the MVP two of those years.
Sorry, my dad I have not yet met is never making the hall. Unless they Harold Baines him in.
Garvey is in the Forearm Hair Hall of Fame tho
Lol Canton.
kind of surprised
Giants have a boat load of money to spend. As for catcher , time for Bart and eventually Bailey
This also could be good for Casali. I imagine he sticks around for at least another year so odds are he will probably get a decent amount of playing time. We’ll have to see how far along Bailey is in his development and how Bart has managed his developed since his stint in 2020
Wow! Certainly didn’t see that coming. Enjoy your retirement, Buster.
Guess he wanted to go out on a high-note. 7x all-star, 3 rings, 4 silver sluggers, a Rookie Of The Year, Gold Glove, and the only Giants to ever have a higher fWAR were Bonds, Mays, Ott, and McCovey. Plus he made over $150 million (ovbisously not all because of tax), but great career, Buster. Have a happy retirement.
Still surprised by it. Figured he’d at least give it one more go.
An all-around good guy…. best wishes in retirement
Wow no way!
Will his career be hall of fame now that it’s only 12 years and less than 6,000 abs? Was the case for Jim Edmonds
Think he falls under that category that stats don’t give the entire picture. Where you saw the player and just said hall of fame. Mattingly, molina, Keith hernandez.
FYI, none of those players you mentioned are in the HOF.
Oddly enough, that still doesn’t contradict the OP’s thought.
What I was trying to say is they should be like posey. People judge hall of fame candidacy on brref page rather then what they did on the field. You look at poseys page I say no. You saw what he did for his team on the field then yes.
You forgot Brad Radke.
Sure I am missing a bunch. One I did. Why is lou Whitaker not in the hall. Has to be race because no other reason.
Race? Really? How about the fact that Whitaker was on the ballot when traditional stats were the norm and Whitaker was not that strong with the big numbers? I grew up during Whitaker’s era and always thought he was just a good, not really great, player. Kind of like Tony Fernandez or Ozzie Guillen or Tom Herr. Lou Whitaker was never thought of by most as a potential Hall of Famer during his career and it reflected in him just getting a handful of votes in his only year on the ballot.
Bringing up racism here only shows your ignorance.
Lee Mazzilli for HOF8 hours ago
Why is lou Whitaker not in the hall. Has to be race because no other reason.
======================================
While I think Lou deserves it, he is not close to as good as Grich was,
They should contact me about being the new catcher. I would bring a World Series to San Francisco
Couldn’t have gone out with a stronger performance. Only thing he was missing was the swan song WS. Congrats to Posey on a wonderful career.
It was fun to see the old Giants core go nuts one more time in 2021. It’s disappointing that that’s it for Posey, but he’s had a hell of a career and he’s retiring as an all-time great catcher.
Goddamnit
So Yadi lasted a season longer and played way more years.
@ajrodz: What’s your point?
Posey would make the hall of fame in the 1800’s not 2027 or whatever.
And was worse
Offensively sure, but if you base how good a player is only on offense, you’re a doofus
Andruw Jones had a better career than Yadi, and should be in yet Yadi will get more love on the ballot.
Buster is a first ballot HOF. Molina wont be.
You’re biased.
Posey isn’t a first ballot HOF. He’ll get in, as will yadi for different reasons.
Despite being one of Posey’s biggest fans, I would have to agree. Posey will be in the HOF I would imagine, although I’m not sure he’ll be a first ballot(even though I would love if he was). Yadi will not be a first ballot either, despite being such a consistent catcher for so long. Yadi will make it though
only two catchers were 1st ballot, and Pudge barely got in. I’d be shocked if Posey was 1st ballot.
This is recency bias at its finest. If Posey gets in–and I don’t think he will–it won’t be for a number of years. Which, imo, actually hurts his case. The further we’re removed from the non-statistical stuff, the less of a chance he’ll have.
Bummer he’s going out so “early”, but I always like seeing guys have outstanding exit years like this!
Jimmy, I will bet you a thousand dollars Posey is not a first ballot hall of famer. I’ll go as high as ten grand.
I’m sure collecting on that bet wouldn’t be a problem at all.
NOT a first-ballot HOFer, Giants homer or whoever you are.
Gary Carter needed six ballots. Pizza Man needed four. Both much better. https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2021/11/buster-posey-beating-yadier-molina-to.html
Less is more.
wow, sad but what a great career for Posey
More surprising given the state of the Giants. But the reality is there are more important things than baseball and money. Great career.
Posey is a great example of your statement “there are more important things than baseball and money”. He made a good amount of money that every single person that comments on this site would be more than happy with, and he could’ve cashed in for another $22m this season if he wanted. Great family guy
IMHO SFG have known for 2 years, it explains the P. Bailey draft pick.
But they have Joey Bart…
what have they known for 2 years? That Posey wasn’t gonna play forever?
Even if he was to stay, I doubt he would have played C with the possibility of the DH coming to the NL.
Posey retiring is totally irrelevant to SF drafting Bailey. Teams do not draft for need.
Tell that to the 2021 Angels lol
Just waiting for the Yankee fans to flood the comments with preposterous trade proposals, Crawford and Joey Bart for Gary Sanchez.
Hope you are prepared for a helluva long wait, @deuce. Yankee haters post that stuff. Not us. Was hoping you guys would step up your Yankee trolling game this winter. It’s just so damm boring, heavy handed, mundane, & overwhelmingly predictable.
Looks like I am in for a long wait too.
I wish him well. First class guy.
So he’s gonna be the next Padres manager then?
Mets.
Melvin??
Wow, that’s crazy. Especially after such a tremendous bounceback season.
I’m a Dodgers fan and he was a helluva good player who killed us for 12 years.
Incredible career. Among the best of all time. A sure fire HOF’er.
Enjoy the well earned rest.
Dodger fan here. He was a great player and will be missed. Truly a joy to watch a real professional play the game.
Wonder if the Reds knew of Posey’s retirement before they traded Barnhart to the Tigers for a minor leaguer who’s probably not hitting his weight?
how does that facor in?
I mean it’s pretty early in the offseason but I suppose in theory, having one more team in the market for a catcher could’ve driven the price up slightly.
Congrats!
Going out at the top if your game, well done Mr. Posey! It was a treat to see you play.
Congrats on the great career, Gerald. Hope you get to enjoy more time with the kids now.
Congratulations Mr. Posey on a great career!! Wish you nothing but the best in your future endeavors!!
That’s to bad. Great catcher, far superior to the neck tattoo guy who will not go away.
Posey will soon get a call from the Mets now that he retired from playing
Noooooo. He was my best fantasy pick in two leagues this past year. Wish him all the best.
Yikes man… wasn’t ready for this
I kept telling myself it was coming soon, but it still hit me like a truck
Time for top prospect and potential superstar Joey Bart to man up. Let’s see what he is really made of. Wishing him the best!
One of the best catchers I got the privilege to watch. 100% hall of fame bound. Good luck as you ride into the sunset Posey!
As an outsider looking in, I was surprised by the great years that several older players on the Giants had. I was figuring with their rotation going free agent, and the older players unlikely to repeat these career years, SFG would have a hard time doing this again next year. After Buster spent a year with his family, I wonder if he didn’t feel the same way and decide going out on a high note was the best option.
Surprising, definitely didn’t see that coming. I thought he was going to retire after 2022 while spending time as a catcher with Joey Bart as his understudy and the rest splitting time at 1B with Darin Ruf.
What a career, what a fun player to watch. He’ll get his number retired in a few years and have a nice comfy second career as a ‘special assistant’.
All the best, Buster. Go enjoy time with that wife and kids. You did San Francisco proud!
I think for a lot of guys it’s better in their minds to burn out than to fade away, so they will feel that due to wear and tear, if they continue to play through the following season, they’ll see their numbers decline or dip in some way that’s almost certainly due to age and they’ll have either a bad season or a lost season and if they already had that and came back strong in the final year of the largest contract and AAV of their career, they may know they won’t get nearly the same kind of money and may not want to play for less money or become an albatross on a similar-ish deal going forward where they then see their numbers actually crater due to age and wear and tear and maybe they also just don’t feel like they need the additional money or to prove anything else.
David Ortiz retired under similar circumstances.
Posey was almost certainly going to be bought out for the $3M and may have made an extra $10-15M, but also would have had to play again after a regular off season, versus getting to rest, recuperate and rehab whatever was bothering him during the full year he opted out, so his numbers this season were a result of that long layoff, something he can’t do every other year and he’s only getting older.
Plus he’s a catcher and those knees get tore up.
He was not going to be bought out. Zaidi was asked about it sometime in October and he said he was prepared to exercise Buster’s option
Actually, and also per another commenter, not only was Zaidi prepared to buy the option, but they were looking at, say, a two-year, maybe three, extension, probably for around that $15M per year.
Walking away from $22MM and whatever the actual sum was for 2020, for his family. Not to many like him.
Love you Buster, thanks for the memories and those rings. Hope to see you in the future in some capacity with SF.
He’s already made $168M in his career, Though $22M is a lofty sum, he can afford to walk away.
Agreed, he is a rare breed. Thumbs up for a class guy.
Very rare for an athlete to retire so early at the top of his game. He’s probably worth at least $60-80M for the next 3-4 yrs. Truly shocking but not when you consider being away from family for so long. Family first, Much respect to Posey family.
It’s nice to end on a high note but still shocking. I would have thought the NL dh would have given him a bit of a break physically and let him last a few more years.
Anyways, good luck in retirement!
Whether or not the guy is a HOFer is a question for another day. For what it is worth, the Bill James HOF monitor has him falling short by quite a bit. His “most similar batter” is Victor Martinez and I don’t think anyone considers him even a potential HOFer.
But that aside, today is a day to celebrate a good career regardless of whether or not he makes it to Cooperstown.
Victor Martinez’s HoF case is very underrated. would be fully deserving in my mind if he didnt have to give up catching.
I too believe Victor Martinez was very underrated for his career. He was a very good player, but didn’t have the WS titles to boost his name like Posey. I don’t think Posey was nearly as good as Joe Mauer, let alone guys like Bench and I-Rod and Berra.
VMart was a bat-first guy, and not close to Posey at playing the position. VMart might have been the most similar, but HoFer Carlton Fisk was 3rd most similar through age 34, along with HoFer Barry Larkin 5th most similar. He’s also ranked similar to HoFer Roy Campanella.
If the mets call, he’ll report to camp.
Your trolling skills seem to be growing year by year. I commend you for it .
parody account…
Not overly surprised. Dad duties were calling. The man is all class.
Takes a lot to retire when you still have a bit left in the tank, but better now than when you have nothing left. Pure class. Hell of a final season. Nice to see him back in peak form, which no one expected.
I had a feeling this would happen
Talk about going out on a high note! Congrats on a great career Buster!
We approve of this message.
Love, Dodger fans everywhere.
I wonder if it had ANYTHING to do with his contract. He might not wanted to play for $22M for example. Or I wonder if he wanted to get traded to Braves to be closer to his family…..
Anyways, always Mr. Classy Posey!
No, he was just physically done. The only reason he played in 2021 was to prove to himself that he could still play
What a career Buster. Enjoy retirement
No HOF for Posey. He had several good years, especially playing C position, but he’s not HOF level. BR agrees, he’s not close on any of the HOF monikers. Nice career, he got his money, he went out on top rather than hanging on for too long.
Yikes…
He did better than several good years. Looking at WAR over the 7 best seasons, Posey ranks 7th all-time among catchers, better than 10 HoF catchers including Berra, Campanella, and Simmons.
IF you look at Posey’s WAR over his best 5 consecutive seasons he ranks 5th all time, better than 11 HoF catchers, including Fisk.
What hurts Posey is the 12 year career. The numbers are there for 12 seasons, but unlike most HoFers, he’s not going to add on a bunch of mediocre seasons to pad his stats.
For instance, look at Gary Carter. Posey has slightly better numbers over their first 12 seasons. Carter finished his career with 70.1 WAR, almost 26 points better than Posey. But in Carter’s final 7 seasons he posted .238/.307/.381, .688 OPS, and a 93 OPS+.
If the writers look into the numbers better than you Posey will go in.
“HOF monikers”?
I suggest you look up both the word “moniker” and Posey’s career stats. Start by looking at his WAR and compare that to catchers who are in Cooperstown.
Posey will be inducted into the HOF by 2029.
I take it the Marlins won’t be trading for Joey Bart now
Unless Trevor Rogers is included I would imagine you are correct lol
Classy Guy! Enjoy chapter 2 BP!
WOW
The news on this Catcher came out of Left Field.
I would guess that the retirement has it’s roots in 4 factors:
He’s earned more than enough money
He loves his family and spending time with them
His body has taken a considerable toll over the years
Concern over the long term effect of multiple concussions
That rule change kind of ruined baseball, but he was a great player and I also respect him immensely for adopting children. It’s always better to go out on a high note.
Sure would have been nice to hear it from Posey first, instead of from this other guy.
Terrific player….how many have that kind of a triple slash line? Walking away after such an excellent season, leaving a boatload of money on the table, I don’t know if he will make the HOF (JAWS isn’t that optimistic) but wouldn’t bother me at all to see it happen.
Sad day for us giants fans. His return this year was BY FAR the most important reason for the team’s turnaround. There is no replacing him.
Buster will definitely be in the HOF. He is giant of his era and easily one of the classiest people in the game.
I think Posey should be considered for MVP for 2021. When you think about where the Giants were last season(2020), without Posey, versus where they were this season(2021), with Posey, it makes sense. Posey had quite a year and even helped the Giants outdo the Dodgers. Now, obviously, he didn’t play as much as he probably could’ve, but when he was on the field, he and the team were pretty successful.
Great ballplayer, great career.
Re the HOF, every player has a different Hall of Fame story and the narrative of who gets in, or not is evolving, I mean if 300 wins as a bar for starters that never changes then is any starting pitcher ever getting in again? Posey will have a strong case and his story is a blend of old and new school. Old school hardware including WS rings + new school offensive and defensive metrics show him to be an elite player. Injury interrupted some of his counting stats but the manner that he’s exiting, when the local discussion was not only the team going to pick up his option, was he going to get a 2yr deal.
If I could bet I would say he gets in, Crazy stat from this past season’s NLDS, the Giants game 3 win 1-0 was the 14th playoff shutout he caught in his career. 2nd Yadi, 8, 3rd Yogi Berra with 7
Fyi, neither Kershaw (185) and Scherzer (190) have even 200 wins entering their age 34 and 38 year seasons.
Your take on HOF is well considered. Posey may not be a GOAT, but he’s a cut above all of the best catchers of his generation. He probably has meant more to his team and to baseball than any player since Jeter. His short career is a strike against him, but his excellence lasted just long enough to justify induction, IMO.
Too bad. A few more good seasons and he could make a HOF case.
Thank you Buster. You will be missed. All the best to the Posey family.
Only player I’ve ever seen snubbed by his teammates (several of them, if not all) while high fives were being exchanged following a win.
I thought he’d play at least one year at 1B. With their young catchers ready to step in, and their championship caliber team.
Looking at the Stats alone do not support HOF case.
.302 career hitter in 12 seasons?
.302 career hitter because he’s retiring at age 34. We won’t see what would have been his decline years.
Most voters like to see both a high peak and longevity. Exceptions have been made, such as Koufax, but he had extenuating circumstances (forced to retire to injury), plus he was unquestionably the best pitcher in baseball at the time. Posey has been a nice player, but nowhere near that kind of elite, once-in-a-generation talent.
Posey, if elected, would hardly be the worst player in the hall. But he’s hardly a first-ballot, slam-dunk candidate like so many commenters here seem to think.
I’d have to question what the difference is between him and Freehan. Posey is definitely the better hitter, but Freehan was still a good hitter. But Freehan won 5 GGs, and made the AS team 10 straight times, 11 in total.
.302 hitter with 1500 hits, an MVP, a ROY, 3 World Series titles(all which he was the backbone of), 2x comeback player of the year, 7x all-star, gold glove, WBC champ, batting title, 4x silver slugger, and he has the most postseason hits for a Giant. We actually did see some down years that you could argue were decline years until he found his stride this season. 2019 was not a good year for him because he had 7 homers while hitting .257, and 2018 he had 5 homers but hit .284 in 105 games. We’ve also seen him hit .300+ in 6 seasons, and .310+ in 4. In his MVP season he hit .336 coming off of his plate collision the year before
Not to mention, he has caught the most postseason shutouts in MLB postseason history
Stats do support his HoF case if you compare them to other HoF catchers.
Only if you compare him to the worst of the HoF catchers, which no one should ever do.
Sometimes the voters (usually the veteran’s committee) sends an undeserving candidate to the Hall (think Harold Baines). That does *not* mean we have to judge every potential HoF candidate by that low standard.
Do you consider Gary Carter one of the worst? He has the 2nd highest WAR for any catcher. Carter, like other HoF catchers, had similar numbers to Posey, over their first 12 years.
Posey: .302/.372/.460, .831 OPS, 129 OPS+
Carter: .273/.347/.463. .810 OPS, 125 OPS+
Berra: .290/.354/.492, .846 OPS, 129 OPS+
Bench: .268/.343/.484, .827 OPS, 130 OPS+
But players with longer careers aren’t putting up HoF numbers as they age, they only pad their stats.
Carter’s next 7 seasons: .238/.307/.381, .688 OPS, 93 OPS+
Berra’s next 7 seasons: .270/.332/.455, .787 OPS, 116 OPS+
Bench’s next 5 seasons: .266/.337.448, .785 OPS, 115 OPS+
By my account, Posey was just as good as Berra, Bench and Carter over their first 12 years. Posey, by retiring early is only forgoing the opportunity to pad his stats, as the others did with good, but not great numbers.
Tad,
Bench
75 WAR, 2 MVPs, 1 WS MVP. 14 AS Games, 389 HRs, 10 PS HRs
Posey
45 WAR, 1 MVP, 0 WS MVP, 7 AS Games, 158 HRs, 5 PS HRs
Posey may make it in, but Bench is markedly superior
Wrong. What numbers are you looking at?
One of my favorite players in the game. What a stand-up decision for his family. I don’t blame him, but selfishly would’ve liked to see him ride out this recent Giants’ retooling. What a phenomenal final season too!
HOF or not, he’s one of the best contemporary catchers in the game.
Not too many players, of any sport, would leave $22M on the table while being guaranteed a final year with a solid, winning team.
The pessimist in me says theres more to the story here (did he battle with coaching?) but the optimist says who cares and wish him the best.
Congrats Buster – now go take care of that family and don’t look back.
See you in Cooperstown Buster.
Posey was a cut above every other catcher of his generation. He deserves a HOF nod.
Sad for us he was kind of player make me watch a giants game just to see him
Just became a Pusey fan a few months back. Sorry to see him go
Sorry meant Posey not Pusey
My phone tried to auto-correct to Pusey as well. Weird.
Of all the changes in the past decade to the way baseball is played, this rule change is the least consequential. Not once have I thought, “man, this game would have been better if the catcher had been plowed into the ground at least once.”
His retirement will cost SF butts in seats. Should be packed when his number is retired….
Good for this dude. Made plenty of money, got hurt a lot, won his rings, and gets to go be a family man at still a young age.
I’m bummed out as I figured the Marlins and Giants matched up well for a Bart trade. They need starters which we have in spades and we need a catcher badly. Seemed like the perfect scenario.
Oh well good luck to him.
Wishing Buster all the best in his future endeavors.
He could’ve had a monster season as a DH should that rule be included in the next CBA.
Hopefully, his family is well and he is making this decision on his own terms for whatever reason.
Congrats to a great catcher.
Congratulations on a great career Buster. A great player and a gentleman going out on top of his game and not chasing an extra year of what to most would have been an extraordinary salary. Says a lot about the man and his priorities.
This guy was a hero. As soon as he arrived in SF to stay, they started to win. After being called up in 2010, he immediately went on a hitting streak. The team won its first championship in half a century. When he got hurt, they lost. When he recovered, they won another championship. He was an incredible leader in the clubhouse and on the field. He played the game the right way, didn’t fight with umpires, and was respected across the league.
Thank you, Buster.
One of the best catchers to ever play the game. Hall of famer no doubt.
Nope.. Putting him with Berra bench and pudge? Wake the f up. Good yes legendary not so much
22 million freed up? That looks like Robbie Ray money to me.
I had always hoped he (or Hunter Pence) might bring back the player/manager concept. I’m pleased with what the Giants did this year, but still haven’t warmed to Kapler. I do wonder if Posey has it in him to manage, as he always a leader with a quiet equanimity and confidence.
so the back story is the Giants didn’t go for Scherzer or another high profile rental because they wanted to keep Joey Bart
which led me to believe at the time that they might’ve had a good feeling that Posey wasn’t coming back
Or maybe they just value their #2 prospect (or whatever) more than they valued a rental for a few weeks?
Congratulations on a fine career Buster. Three championships in twelve seasons all with the same team is something to be truly proud of.
Not to mention his MVP, ROY, Gold Glove, 7 all-star selections, 4 silver sluggers, and a 2x comeback player of the year. He’s also a huge family guy who now gets to watch his kids grow up. Congrats Buster. Enjoy retirement
A slam-dunk Hall of Famer. I admire players who go out on their own terms despite there being something left in the tank. It’s not the best lifestyle, even with all the money. Posey’s decision reminds me of Mike Mussina, who retired after his lone 20-win season that gave him 270 wins for his career. Some people were screaming he should stick around to win 300, but Mussina saw his life differently and was ready to move on. Those are happy stories, in my opinion. These guys are more than just jocks.
@Cey Hey: Well said.
Moose played 20 years not 12.. hof players have to be the best of the generation. 12 years is not enough
@FG-3: Sandy Koufax begs to differ.
Sandy Koufax was the greatest pitcher anyone had seen for 30 years, and retired due to injury, not by choice. It’s not a valid comparison.
12 years is 12 years. FG-3 set the bar, not me.
You can compare Posey to Sandy Koufax now? Have you ever watched baseball?? I mean really? That’s just asinine
You said 12 years. That’s the cutoff, right?
“12 years is not enough”
-FG-3
Slam dunk?? Like Jordan?? Posey was the best catcher for 2 years. Put him up against Fisk.. Bench.. piazza . Berra . Pudge. Molina. He’s good. And I’m sure a nice guy. Not a hall of gamer
Based on WAR he’s better than Molina. and he’s played six fewer years. Molina had 4+ WAR twice. Posey had 4+ WAR six times.
I’m a Cardinals die hard, so I am biased. Having said that, WAR is a useful stat but sometimes the eye is useful too. IMO, Molina and Posey are both Hall worthy. Sometimes stats fail us. How many games have the Cards won because of something Yadi did that doesn’t add to WAR? Calling a certain pitch, calming a young pitcher down. Eliminating the running game, etc.
Brandon, I don’t disagree with you, but FG-3 is pretending there’s a huge gulf between Posey and those other guys (including Molina). IMO, Posey and Molina are in the same stratum. Neither one is a Bench or a Berra. They are both Hall-worthy.
Something tells me there were underlying concussion issues involved in his decision. I’m bummed but he really leaves the game on a high note. Greatest catcher in the Giants 140 year franchise history hands down. Time to step up Joey boy.
Posey was a really good catcher. A part of 3 Championship teams. But… Bench Fisk Berra Pudge not quite. A fair assessment.. posada and his numbers are better he didn’t sniff the hall. Posey makes it I call White Privilege! He’s good not great
White Privilege? Really?
Yea really… he won 3 titles. Posada 5 275 hr 1000 rbi. Never sniffed hall.
Posey was good. You would put him up against Berra Bench piazza? Pudge that’s a joke
White Privilege? You’re unhinged.
Posada was a good player on a team stacked with stars year after year. Posey was one of the stars on his championship teams. Posey was an MVP, Posada may have gotten a few down ballot MVP votes. Big difference.
Piazza? The steroid user? Haha
White privilege? What a moronic statement. The Baseball Writers Association of America is a racist organization founded to keep minorities down? Stupid. Idiotic.
You had a relevant argument with Posada’s numbers, then you trashed it playing a useless race card. Glad there’s a mute so I dont have to see your trash any more…
Oh I forgot… Piazza! Best hitting catcher of all time? Putting posey next to him. Are y’all serious
Piazza was a steroid user too, so yeah, I’d stack Posey up next to him.
If he’s not a hall of famer, there isn’t one
There are 235 hall of famers who were MLB players, most of them with statistically greater careers than Buster Posey. He was a great player with a nice career. You don’t have to say something silly just because it’s over
How does he rate among catchers in the Hall and not in the Hall? That’s the only question that matters.
Bench, Berra, Fisk, Campanella, Gary Carter, Piazza* and Rodriguez* are the only catchers I feel were better than Posey and there’s heavy suspicions Piazza and Rodriguez juiced. Safe to say Posey is a top ten catcher all time…are you really saying someone who was top ten at a position shouldn’t get in the HOF?
How many catchers are in the Hall in the approximate 150 years of MLB? 14? 15? It’s an underrepresented position considering it’s importance. He should receive strong consideration.
@lordd99 There are 18 catchers in the hall of fame but only six have played a game in the past 50 years (Bench, Fisk, Carter, Piazza, Simmons and Rodriguez).
And now I feel old. Posey was at Florida State my freshman year of college. Was such a privilege to watch him play there, and cheered for him his entire career. Congrats on an amazing career Buster!
Congrats from a Dodgers fan for a great career. As a fellow dad of two sets of twins myself, if my earnings at age 34 were even a fraction of his $168 million, I’d retire as well.
This is shocking to me. He seemed to have many more years left in the tank with a lot of money still left on the table. Transition to 1st or DH somewhere. Too good, but respect his career. His choice at the end of the day, right? Made his money, enjoy retirement
i muted a know-it-all
The youngest Giants manager to be born in a few years.
Buster Posey invested 5-6 million in Body Armor when it first started. It was just sold for 5.6 billion! Kobe invested 6 mil, and his estate got $400 million when it got bought it.
I don’t think he needs to play ball anymore.
I don’t think he’s needed to play for years. He played because he wanted to. Mike Trout was also an investor. I doubt he’ll be announcing his retirement.
Only 34. Seems like he’d have at least 2 maybe 3 years left. His knee injury I’m guessing really took a toll on him. He came back strong but knee injuries are the worst for catchers. Unfortunately Kyle Schwarber knows all about that.
Posey was so highly thought of that America’s past time was forever changed. Rip Ray Fosse
This is a bit of a surprise. I wonder if the nagging injuries have just piled up and he said F it. It is weird to see a player walk away from that much money but good for him if that is his decision.
Good for him. Seems he’s been around longer than that. Quite a career.
One of the many great picks by John Barr, the unsung hero of the Giants success (and other teams as well). If only the Mets would get him. That’s where he started.
Good to see him go out on top. Great player who led successful teams. All the best to him
::Slow Clap::
Great career but not a HOF career.
Great career.
Buster Posey is a great player. Congrats on a fine career.
Is he a Hall of Famer? I dont think so, but I believe a lot of Hall of Famers dont deserve to be there.
1 batting title… 1 mvp… roy… 1500 hits… are all great, but I would think he would need either a longer career or more awards.
Enjoy retirement.
Posey may not be first ballot, but he’ll be in the Hall no doubt. Roy, 3 titles, silver slugger awards, mvp, gold glove lifetime .300 hitter….yeah, HOF all day
And boom goes the dynamite
I’d like to have seen one more season for HOF purposes, but he likely gets in anyway. Not as good as Freehan, but just as worthy.
Past that, I have a lot of respect for guys choosing to walk away on their own terms. Whether the SFG were going to pick up the option or not, he’d have still pulled down a substantial paycheck.
thumbs up for the bill freehan love
solidly above-average hitter for his era (122 ops+ from 1967-1974) and elite defender
Nice, this means we get to see collisions at home plate again!
And here I thought Z was going to have to extend Posey for 3 more years. It will be strange NOT seeing Posey in the lineup any more. As a Dodger fan, I can say that Buster is the real deal. Hated how many times he came up big against us. The rivalry takes a hit with this.
Thank you, Buster, for being a worthy and respectful opponent. I wish you and your family only the best.
Wow, huge loss for the Giants. Joey Bart will not be good.
He can’t even hit home runs. Damn this guy is irreplaceable.
Great player, hall of fame bound. Will be missed.
I used to call him Poser lol. Hope they can at least re-sign Belt and bring in a big hitter.
We’ll see with Bart, his entry in 2020 was last minute and out of necessity and he went from A ball to the majors with no development so what you saw in 2020 was essentially his AA performance against major leaguers. He may not pan out but I am not going to judge what he did in 2020as indicating how he will play out when he comes up next year.
I believe Posey will be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. With all the cheats I doubt there will be much of a class of HOF players entering at the same time as him.
And he’s turned down the Mets GM offer.
Now veteran Curt Casali will return possibly sharing starting duties with Bart…many fans will get to hear more of the best walk up music of today’s rock. GVF
he’s my all-time favorite player so i’m biased, but you can make a hall of fame argument for jorge posada. defensively he’s not in the same league as posey, but his offensive production is close and posada wasn’t a full-time player until his age 29 season which somewhat offsets posey’s early retirement
I’m a RS fan, and I liked Posada plenty darn well. That said, he’s in the star category, not the HOF category.
a red sox fan who doesn’t despise posada is rare. fwiw i loved watching pedro pitch, even when he made my team look silly
Once they work remotely, it’s hard to get people to come back to the office.
Posey execelled at the plate and in tne field,has 3 WS rings, won MVP and closed out his career with a very strong season. He is a HOF player and as much as I liked Simmmons and especially Carter IMHO there is no comparison. Simmons was a greaf hitter but not great behind plate and Carter was exceptional behind the plate, great power but wasn’t the hitter Posey was.
Thank you for the contribution to the game, wishing you a happy retirement!
Side note.. do hope he becomes a MLB manager later on when/if he is ready and if he wants to do it. I think he could be a great one if it is anything like his playing career. Super high baseball IQ.
Mike Scioscia, Bruce Bochy, Bob Melvin… Yeah. It will work.
Shattered! But what a career, I raise my cap to him for doing what’s right himself and his family. Suddenly makes the Giants catching ranks a little more pressing. Big off-season coming up. Happy retirement
Character is part of the hall..he is locked in. It’s just the stats that don’t add up. Kirby Puckett was injured. Koufax was injured. A 12 year career and the numbers just don’t add up. His span doesn’t add up to Bench. Piazza, Fisk or even pudge. Maybe my standards are too high
It’s going to be quality v quantity argument. Posey is ahead of Molina in fWAR, and Molina has 2,677 more PAs. Unfortunately, the defensive component of WAR, for catchers, is unreliable. But Posey generally grades out pretty well.
He also has some peripherals that voters like. ROY, MVP and 3 WS rings.
All the more reason the Giants now have to go out and sign a first basemen that can play without numerous trips to the IL.
I think the upset here is that the Giants never offloaded Brandon Belt to move Posey to first to save his knees. It certainly didn’t help this oft-mentioned prognostication’s chances that Belt really started hitting the last few years, and of course Posey opted out in 2020 as well.
If the Dodgers don’t re-sign Corey “Moving to 3B Eventually” Seager, two NL West “inevitable position change” narratives will have died before coming to pass. In both cases, it’s possible that neither organization felt a move was needed, either. And I feel like maybe I heard Posey himself wanted to catch?
This Dodger fan won’t miss Posey seemingly going 3-4 every damn game against LA though. And I say that as a compliment to Posey’s career.
Buster Pusey was my favorite right handed catcher in the national league west.
A legendary Giant and a giant of baseball.
Respect.
he’ll be lucky to sniff to hof in 10 years
Sign Austin Hedges.
MVP 3 rings and ROY but a first ballot HOF highly unlikely. He will get in at some point but no way on first chance
Don’t get this, even if the injuries have piled up, move to the American League and become a full-time DH.
Posey isn’t like that. He isn’t one to jump around on teams. If he were to leave it would’ve been to Atlanta to play for the team he rooted for growing up
Could of been one of the best but was always injured and missed a ton of time.To young to retire.He will take a year off and return most likely Atlanta.
He won’t play again. He said it best in his press conference. Baseball is merely the vessel that has provided him with the opportunity to live a good life. Listening to a man that has perspective in relation to the game was very refreshing.