11:15 AM: At least one player has decided to chime on the conversation. Zack Britton responded (via Twitter) to Heyman’s earlier tweet with a very simple and straightforward, “This is not accurate.”
10:28 AM: The prospects of owners and players being close to an agreement has been characterized as “beyond absurd” by someone close to the players, per Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca (via Twitter). Nicholson-Smith adds that the players will need to see more than just the incremental changes to the Collective Bargaining Tax that owners were offering yesterday.
9:34 AM: Amid all the doom-and-gloom surrounding the CBA negotiation, there is at least one voice suggesting a deal could be in the offing. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reports this morning that the two sides are “within striking distance” of a deal, and the two sides could reach a suitable compromise by tomorrow night. MLBTR’s sources disagree vehemently with Heyman’s report, however, and continue to say that a deal is not close.
Most of the other scuttlebutt, including from Heyman, suggests that the players left yesterday’s session upset and unconvinced of the owners willingness to negotiate in earnest. At the same time, despite the hostility, players have not walked away yet, with another meeting scheduled between the two sides for today at noon.
Heyman suggests the difference could be a settling of the luxury tax threshold around the $230MM mark. That would more-or-less evenly split the divide between the two sides, but that’s not the way negotiations have leaned thus far. That’s to say nothing of the many other issues on which the two sides are at odds. At last reporting, the gap between the two was still at $31MM for 2022, with the players offering a $245MM luxury tax line, and the owners countering at $214MM.
Owners: You know that the season could be completely cancelled and that the country would hardly care or even notice (because baseball is culturally irrelevant) and you also know that you could easily find much better ROI’s than MLB. MLB players are already spoiled and treated great for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and you know it. Lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster, many of them receive signing bonuses (frequently major bonuses) before ever playing their first professional game, entry level salary is in the top 1% of incomes, average salary (more than $4 million!!!) is in the top 1/10th of 1% of incomes, playoff bonuses, awards bonuses, daily food allowance, luxury hotels, luxury travel accommodations, etc. Enough is enough- stop being weak and stop allowing MLBPA to make you look like chump pushovers. Hold the line! Stop giving in!! BREAK THE MLBPA UNION!!!
Heyman of the same MLB network that got rid of Rosenthal? I’m hopeful but skeptical of anything he’s putting out.
The reason things don’t work on the ‘even split’ principle is that it begs unreasonable proposals, If there is going to be an ‘even split’ based on whatever is proposed, why wouldn’t the union just propose $500MM? Instead, the clubs know where the limit is and then work in bargaining towards that.
The second thing, and the more important thing is the penalties. The owners have agreed that there will be no draft pick losses for signing a FA when you stay under the CBT threshold. The union though, wants no draft pick comp for FA’s AND no real penalties for exceeding the CBT. That won’t fly.. Not now, not in 2 months, not in 2 years, .
The limit is 30% more than it was when the last CBA was signed because that is how much revenue (and profits for the two teams that have open books) has gone up. The CBT should start at $255 million.
The union has already compromised on that one. It’s time for the owners to get real. The union is not going to agree to the increases in penalties, especially the draft pick losses and the increased international free agent pool losses.
The CBT has amounted to a hard cap because even the largest payroll teams have chosen to lower payroll every couple of years to drop back under it. Increased penalties make it more of a hard cap.
Until the owners agree to raise the CBT threshold and lower penalties there will not be a new CBA.
only 3 or 4 teams pay anywhere near the current CBT. You can raise it to a billion.. if they raise it to where the players want…maybe 3 or 4 teams will spend it, the others will stay pretty much where you are… Fun to watch Dodgers Yankees in world series for the next 50 years…
… because that’s totally how the playoffs go when you look at them, the high payroll team wins? No. With 12 or 14 playoff teams, the 3 or 4 top payroll teams aren’t going to make the world series most years.
Back in the days of the reserve clause when there were no free agents for the Yankees and Dodgers to sign, that’s when we actually had Yankees vs Dodgers every year. Competitive balance has been far, far better since free agency.
It will be done by Monday. To much for players to lose. Spring training has turned into a joke.
I’ve thought this from the beginning and was beginning to think that I was the only one. Typical negotiation stubbornness aside, 1994 wasn’t that long ago and it took years to recover and this was before social media. Too much to lose for both sides.
They’d better not take the fans for granted or there will eventually not be enough fans. Losing games serves no one.
@Best- the players will not trade free agent compensation for harder CBT penalties, and the owners are well aware of that. CBT penalties are a third rail issue, while the QO compensation is just a bargaining chip for owners that they’ve decided to agree to even in the last round of bargaining.
An average of seven players a year over the last five year agreement have been subject to a Qualifying offer, and some of those resigned with their old clubs. In the last round, owners offered to trade it for an international draft.
They have whittled the application of the QO compensation down, eliminating it for players who are traded during the season, and then players who were offered a QO previously. It’s just not significant any more, and in most cases, it’s nothing to give up for the most elite players in the game.
Harder CBT penalties are a complete 100 percent non starter. Players would much rather live with the free agent compensation, as much as it’s just another penalty for teams spending on free agent players. What they call “artificial restrictions on the free market”.
The QO draft pick loss only effects 2-3 players a year. Its not even a factor.
@keysox – Unless the owners completely cave into player demands, I don’t see them coming to an agreement by Monday. The players have dug their heels in and appear to be ready to miss a substantial number of games until they get close to what they are asking for. There is no way the owners are going to agree to a $100M+ bonus pool to be paid to the top 150 pre-arb players, especially if they end up agreeing to a substantial increase in the league minimum salaries.
In my opinion, the one thing owners should be willing to accept is a sizable increase in the CBT thresholds. This costs them nothing; they just need to show spending restraint if they don’t want to spend more than $220M on payroll. Players can’t force them to spend up to the thresholds so in theory these thresholds mean nothing to the teams or the owners. It might benefit a few big spenders like the Mets but most teams can easily stay below these artificial ‘caps’ and field a very competitive team.
Dorothy- owners don’t have to completely cave, but they do have to drop all the CBT tax increases and added draft penalties or there will be no deal. They might get that if players drop the super two cutoff change.
The other numbers, including the large gaps, can be closed.
The CBT thresholds are not irrelevant numbers. Teams have set their budgets to stay under the thresholds. Six of them over $200 million but under the $210 million de facto cap. Players have been willing to die on that hill for a few decades now, even as they’ve let the penalties creep in as a de facto salary cap.
The mid point between their two proposals is just under $230M
The current threshold with a 7% adjustment is $225M
If they settled on that and got rid of the draconian penalties, I think they would get to a deal
Even if the agreement comes down the road a week or so, it’s still worth it for both sides, financially, for the players to be paid for a full season and owners to bag that extra $100 million plus for expanded playoffs. At that point, owners would want to make up the missed games and get some bank
When done by multiple teams, “showing spending restraint” is legally called collusion. The owners have lost multiple cases for collusion. They won’t do that again.
No, getting together and COLLUDING to not pay high salaries is collusion. Individual team restraint is just that.
You got it backwards. Too much for the owners to lose. If the regular season doesn’t start on March 31st the owners will be losing $2 billion per month in revenue. About $67 million per day. Players don’t earn any money in spring training like the owners do. They start earning money in the regular season, so they can’t be losing anything until the season starts. The players earned just 38% of total revenue and they have 2 months of salaries in the bank so to speak. The players won’t be under any pressure until the end of May.
Oh, so you’re the special guy that has access to the team’s books? Where in the world are you finding these numbers?
Attendance is much lower in the early months, so the owners lose much less, if anything at all. Hence, the owners have the leverage. There’s no set amount being made, so your assertion is ridiculous. Furthermore, the owners own other businesses and profit from team valuation increases, so they have the power. If the season starts late, the players can’t make that lost money back. The amount of lost income starts to make no sense when it doesn’t exceed any gains made in a new CBA.
Get it now?
I doubt I am the only fan who is sick of the direction MLB has been going in for years and could not care less if the season was cancelled if it meant the stupid rule changes, both already implemented and discussed going forward, would disintegrate. I would welcome a new commissioner. Preferably one with a backbone. Manfred is terrible.
In light of everything else going on in the world today, these rich a-holes look even worse than they are
Prices are out of control and they want to make sure salaries match “inflation”
F off guys, both sides
If I could form a union that has the leverage to demand our pay match inflation, I absolutely would. Just because they make significantly more than me doesn’t mean they’re wrong for doing it.
Do they have the leverage to demand that?
Prices are “out of control” because we have more money and less PRODUCTION than in the past. You are paying more while companies are taking record profits instead of increasing production. That is called price gauging.
How is Heyman always so wrong?
When Boros signs a player Heyman is the first to announce it
Heyman is willing to publish things as favors to MLB and some agents. In return, they give him some breaking scoops. Some argue that compromises journalistic integrity. Boras is famous for inventing interest in his clients that doesn’t really exist.
Just cancel the season
Heyman and MLBN are mouthpieces for Manfred.
Since Rosenthal was fired by MLBN at Manfred’s order, his coverage on the Athletic has been must-read. He no longer has to delicately deliver the news.
Heyman has very good connections to Boros , just because he doesn’t go around bad mouthing MLB doesn’t mean Boros doesn’t want a mouth piece there .Don’t think for 1 sec. Boros is controlling the players side
And the CCP. Its why Atlanta missed the All star game. So proud of Atlanta for sticking it to MLB and winning it all in a year where MLB viciously tried to attack the state.
Atlanta’s voting bill had nothing to do with the CCP…
If you can’t even spell his name, why should anyone even read your opinion about him. Obviously you have not read enough to even know what his name is, let alone how he influences the game.
Heyman has very close connections to Boros and just because he doesn’t go around blasting MLB doesn’t mean Boros doesn’t need a mouth piece there. Boros has his hands all over these negotiations and I would suggest Heyman is probably more in touch than MLBTR
There’s no one named Boros. That sounds like an alien from the planet Omicron Persei 8. It’s Boras, Scott Boras. If you don’t even know the man’s name, how can your opinion be taken seriously?
Bore Ass!
The players ask for the CBT threshold to go from $210M to $245M in one year is ridiculous. But the owners proposal of it only going up $4M to $214M is also out of line with past CBAs. A more realistic starting level and increase pattern would be starting at $218M for 2022, then going up to $220M, $224M, $228M, $232M over the 5 years.
What bugs me the most about the CBT and all the negotiations on it is that it is such low impact overall.
I get the players want to bring the deal back closer to the perceived middle, but at this point dig in on things that are going to impact every player, like the min salary.
Only 4-5 teams flirt with the CBT, raising that min will still only impact 4-5 who are willing to spend. So what the dodgers or yanks will be able to 1 more 20/year player or 2 more 15/year players. But whoop. It helps but it’s not a core economic issue and all this periphery stuff is just keeping them further apart.
Really wish the PA signed off on the mediator
I think the threshold is fine, it’s the penalties that are an issue.
The CBT is the biggest issue, by far. With two teams over the threshold and another six within $10 million but not going over, that means eight of the biggest spending teams in the game are being penalized for paying players.
What was once a “Yankee tax” has become a de facto salary cap, and the proposals to more than double the taxes and add draft penalties will never, ever, ever fly with players.
Given the history of the salary cap, losing the 1994 season, court battles ensuing, the players have invested too much to just let it go. There’s no chance. And the current proposals would make the cap so hard, and the thresholds so low that it would effectively be a harder cap, without anything on the floor to make cheap owners spend. It’s not happening.
The PADRES, who are a small market, revenue sharing receiving team, passed the CBT threshold in 2021.
The Braves, who are either 8th or 9th in total revenue depending on the source you read, had $568 million in revenue in 2021. The Braves could have had a $280 million CBT payroll in 2021. They are one of 6 teams that have more than $500 million in revenue. All 6 could have surpassed $250 million in payroll.
The Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs are teams that are over $600 million in revenue, so they could have $300 million CBT payrolls.
There are 14 teams in MLB, with a 15th just $10 million behind, that can afford to surpass $214 million in payroll every season without impacting their bottom line. They would still be profitable.
There are other teams, like the small market Padres, that can afford to do ti occasionally.
Of course, there are teams like the Marlins, A’s, and Rays that have revenue that would limit their top end spending to between $125-140 million most seasons. They are the exception, not the rule.
Raising the CBT threshold and lowering penalties, especially escalating penalties for surpassing the threshold in consecutive years. is one of two issues at the very core in these negotiations.
Why would the MLBPA “sign off on” on a mediator when they have nothing to gain from doing that? They can only lose from agreeing to bring in a mediator.
Why is it ridiculous?
Revenue, and profits for the 2 teams that have open books, went up 30% over the last CBA. So why shouldn’t the CBT threshold also go up 30% from the $195 million it was at to start the last CBA?.
The answer is, it should go up to match increases in revenue.
Isn’t Heyman a Boras plant ? Heard there are ten players on the negotiating team. Seven are Boras clients.
I’ll miss fantasy baseball if the season is cancelled.
I’ve heard a few people say that when it comes together it will come together fast. I’m of that opinion as well. Yesterday it looked hopeless, so I don’t know how people can have a different opinion.
I’ve written it numerous times but will do so once more- these a-holes had the ENTIRE month of December to negotiate but decided they didn’t need it as they were confident a deal would get done. Stupid selfish aholes. BOTH sides.
Well that’s what they SAID, not necessarily what they believed. I personally believe the owners have been playing the players all along and plan to goad them into a strike, get the public to turn on the MLBPA, then get a better deal.
Meanwhile the players are steadfast in their belief that the fans will have their backs. But that only goes so far and both sides are playing a dangerous game of chicken, because if significant chunks or the entire season are lost everybody loses. This could be much worse than 1994 and in 2022 with so many other sources of entertainment the game may never get back to where it was. I really hope all of this is bluster and when it really comes down to it both sides have enough sense to hammer something out.
The owners are not going to lift the lockout and allow the players the option to strike. They will reach an agreement in order to end the lockout.
How do players go on strike if they’re being locked out? That like saying “I’m breaking up with you” and the person says “I’m breaking up with you first!”. People ultimately don’t care who is in the wrong, they just want baseball. People will come back as they always do. And the argument that baseball can’t afford this as tv contracts and upper player contracts are as high as ever. People just don’t like admitting they can’t control this situation.
Not stupid at all on the owners part as they have all the leverage. Just because you want something to happen doesn’t make people selfish – it makes you selfish when you have nothing to lose.
Jon Heyman has inside info because of Boros connections so don’t discount so easily, they are probably more accurate than yours
As someone else pointed out in response to another one of your posts, it’s Boras.
League needs to just accept the players deal, the union gave up a lot the last 2 CBAs time for the owners to give up something And stop being so cheap
What a naïve understanding of how negotiations work. Are you ~15? No adult would think that’s how these type of things go.
Cheap? Some players make 40m a year! A person who makes $100k a year which is a good salary that most people don’t make would have to work 400 years to make that much. They also would be working 12 months a year as opposed to 7. Give me a break!
There is one glimmer of hope, that is maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
Five days ago, the biggest obstacles to a deal (in terms of issues) were
– Owners insistence on one percent increase in the CBT thresholds
– Owners proposal to more than double CB tax rates
– Owners proposals to convert minimum salary to a fixed salary
– Owners proposal to have the same minimum salary for five years
AND
– Players demand for two year arbitration
– Players demand for $30 million cut in revenue sharing
Well, the players have withdrawn their proposal on revenue sharing.
Players have reduced from 100% of two year players to 35% for arbitration
Owners have proposed non fixed minimum salaries, increasing over five years
What remains is the owners proposals to make the CBT an even harder de facto salary cap
On February 12, Manfred said:
“The tax rates are status quo. They’re the same rates that are in the expired agreement.
I think one may have a five percent change. But they’re essentially status quo rates.
The only change on the non monetary side is because of the elimination of draft compensation, some of the old penalties wouldn’t work any more because they were keyed off draft compensation and there’s a substitute for what we’re giving up by the elimination of draft compensation. ”
A league spokesman quickly made a statement that the commissioner “mis-spoke”
But why would he make that comment? Did he let the cat out of the bag?
Either the owners drop their CB tax rates and additional penalties, or we are in for a long summer with no baseball, until they drop it.
If that proposal was gone, what is left?
– a gap in minimum salary of $ 775K, and $640K
-a gap in CBT threshold between $ 245 million and $214 million
– a gap in bonus pool between $115 million and $20 million
– a gap between 4 and 7 lottery picks
– a gap between 22% and 35% super two eligibility
– 12 or 14 teams in the playoffs
Those gaps can be closed, but a salary cap will never happen.
Maybe Heyman could ask Boras to buy a better hair piece for him.
Heyman works for MLBN.
They probably already had a deal in place before this all began. They just need the buzz to get people to show up for games with an end of the month “thank God they got it done.” They are just stringing us along. If they keep it up and it happens like last time they will lose so much more than compensation.
I may be in the minority, but I hope this thing drags on and they cancel the entire season.
I agree, because I think both sides have dirty hands in this, and think they should deal with some consequences.
Yes, hope so. I am planning to not watch any games this season either way.
You would not be here discussing this is you were not going to watch games once the season begins.
You have quite a bit of company. Lots of people come here to express their hatred of baseball. That’s the world we live in now, sadly.
Just goes to show that although it is a business, a very big business in fact, that first and foremost its the fans, their interest, their loyalty, their money spent on the product so both sides profit, are an extremely distant third in the process….
As they should be. Do car buyers have a seat at the table when car companies and the auto workers union negotiate?
I really hope your are being purposely obtuse—i dont mean we need a seat at the table–what i mean is that the two sides forget that we are the ones who pay for their business overall—you can argue tv contracts, endorsements, all the other sources of income for the league and its players—but if we, the fans, dont attend games, buy concessions and pay for parking, watch on tv, listen on the radio, buy souvenirs, all the ancillary forms we pay to and for the sport, then there will be no sport–if they continue to antagonize the rabid and even casual fan, there will be a loss of income for both sides–depending on how much they tick us off, it could be a minor or major loss of income–so that is why we are a distant third in the process–not a seat at the table–but the cash cow that supports the whole game
Who’s the obtuse one? Fans always come back – the amount of money circulating in the game is evidence of this. People can piss and moan all they want, but they’ll be back. Emotional arguments are often poor ones.
I really hope your are being purposely obtuse—i dont mean we need a seat at the table–what i mean is that the two sides forget that we are the ones who pay for their business overall—you can argue tv contracts, endorsements, all the other sources of income for the league and its players—but if we, the fans, dont attend games, buy concessions and pay for parking, watch on tv, listen on the radio, buy souvenirs, all the ancillary forms we pay to and for the sport, then there will be no sport–if they continue to antagonize the rabid and even casual fan, there will be a loss of income for both sides–depending on how much they tick us off, it could be a minor or major loss of income—-we dont need a seat at the table, they just need to remember who the cash cow that supports the whole game is
gbs42
Depends, I thing GM workers are a very large percentage of the their car buyers.
Owners don’t want a fair deal, they want their deal.
The same could be said for the MLBPA too. Neither side is going to get a deal that makes them 100% happy; they just need to compromise and share the pain that comes along with doing so.
The players have moved off their initial positions significantly. The owners have not.
Heyman = Manfraud puppet
He’s fine being anyone’s puppet. Manfred’s puppet for false a stories on negotiations. Boras’ puppet for free agent leaks. MLBN’s puppet for pro-MLB, anti-union spin.
lol
Lock the players and owners in a room with pizza and beer and tell them they can’t leave until a deal is done. Have espn and MLB network cover it live with interviews.
Both sides are wrong here and it would be beneficial if there wasn’t so much posturing.
Skinner and krabapple style
No, you would have to hold the pizza and beer, and add a stinky garbage can and a few cockroaches. That might motivate them to get it done and get out of there.
The owners would want 2 toppings and Miller. The players would want 4 toppings and Bud. Never gonna happen….
This is becoming quite a soap opera, and the big losers are the fans who generate the revenue for this business we used to call baseball.
I’ll trust Heyman over MLBTR
Then you made a mistake.
Booooom, L99 on the mic drop!
Okay? It’s “beyond absurd” to think the sides are close and the players “will need to see more than just the incremental changes to the Collective Bargaining Tax” which is exactly what Jon Heyman suggested to help get a deal done? I’m not a J Hey fan but this article is contradicting itself.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Heyman thinks that CBT stands for “Collective Bargaining Tax”. He’s regularly out of touch with reality.
“Collective Bargaining Tax?” What did I miss?
It’s in the article above. LOL
I know, that’s why I asked. I assume it was a brain faert for the Competitive Balance Tax, but I don’t honestly know.
It’s the next proposal’s tax to be collected & distributed to small-markets to enhance competitive balance for teams like the A’s.
Did Heyman say if a mystery team was involved?
Two mystery teams. It’s that kind of story.
Hahahahaha
Jajajajaja
That is a mystery
Ben Nicholson-Smith
@bnicholsonsmith
·
33m
Heard from a person connected to MLB players who called the sentiment that the sides are actually now within striking distance “beyond absurd.”
The voice of reason guy is obviously trolling. It’s somewhat clever but it can’t be worth all the time he’s putting into it. I hope they make a deal so he can get back to his life.
Owners already won long ago with the expanded playoff revenue and also not needing to spend as much on players to “contend.”
The delay also bought an excuse for most of them to not spend this offseason.
At this point it’s about making the PA think it won somehow.
I’ll side with the owners when they stop selling 1 light beer for the price of an entire case.
I wish the MLBPA would include a cap on beer prices in their next offer
I think everyone wants that. That’s why I pregame 2 maybe 3 beers maybe a small meal prior. Not sure if you’ve ever been to coors field but a few years ago, a vendor told my sister and I that they raise the price of a tall boy by $1 only when the cubs come to visit.
let’s write to owners telling them to negotiate in good faith or we are to boycott games.
Yes, you should do that. Explain in your letter why it is that you think they’re not negotiating in good faith. I’m sure they can all use a laugh right now.
not when millions do. of course, bootlickers don’t need to apply.
I just wanna see baseball…:-/
Today at 1:00 pm, the MLB owners and the players union will meet again in Jupiter, hoping to agree to a new CBA and end the lockout before tomorrow’s deadline, so both sides will be together and the players will be happy with the owners.
They could meet ON Jupiter and they still wouldn’t settle. But at least they’d be on Jupiter.
There is no “equality” between the MLBPA and the League.
The Teams own it all, from the entire minor league structure including the contracts with nigh all the guys trying to get to the MLBPA, the training structures, the scouting apparatus, the parks (leases), the entire development process to get the “few” from raw to accomplished.
The Teams ARE the League: they own the parks (or the leases), the selection of who gets to the League, and how long they are there — which isn’t very long for the few who do get there.
The Game is the attraction.
The Stars (100? 200? of 780 on active rosters) boost attendance with the rest hired to play the Game and showcase the Stars.
The Stars deserve Big Salaries but relatively few last more than a decade while the Game goes on.
That the supporting cast should “start” at $750,000 plus benefits for 8 or fewer months, is incredibly generous — they are the winners in the population as more than 99% of Americans make less.
The MLBPA wants a minimum salary of $895K in 2026.
50% of a roster comes and goes while your kids are in high school — do they really deserve to be set for life because they can hit or throw a baseball at a high level for a couple years?
try running a league with scabs and see how long people care to watch or attend! players are the attraction! take a look at how many fans attend orioles, pirates and dbacks!
You missed the point
There was a point? When random words are capitalized, I tend to be dismissive of whatever “point” is trying to be made.
Baseball tried this and it didn’t work. Football tried this, it didn’t work.
This truly is a symbiotic relationship. I realize this and am not pro owner or pro player. Sometimes the players are right, sometimes the owners are.
@Simple, your entire note seems to be based on your personal inferiority and jealousy.
What’s the difference between a vestibule and a portico?
Jill Goodacre met Chandler in an ATM vestibule, while a portico sound too much like a porta-poddy.
Halo, my mind immediately went to the same thing.
I took a vestibule in a portico once
You talking dirty again?
Why do the owners not want CBT at 245 million? Where does the penalty for going over go to? A 245 million CBT cap does not cost owners anything, so why do they want a 215 million cap. Cap penalty is seen to be a penalty for trying to win/ going all in.MLBPA gets 245 million owners to get 14 games play-off would be a fair trade-off.
It goes to revenue sharing, to the other team owners. The entire point of the CBT is to create a disincentive for owners to spend as much on players as they would otherwise.
Because it makes the rich, richer. That’s enough to add an impact player that puts you over top which only a small handful of teams can afford.
BREAK THE UNION!!!
Break The_Voice_Of_No_REASON
But he has a PhD from the University of Phoenix online, lol
The owner controls the baseball now, MLB owns Rawlins which makes the MLB baseball and they have changed the baseball every year since to help owners. More home runs, or fewer owners control it. In 2019 MLB(owners) deaded the baseball during playoff games without telling anyone, why.
The millionaires and billionaires need to come together to issue a statement that neither group really cares about the fan base, which is already seeing decreased numbers due to other issues with Baseball. That, despite the fans are really the ones that are the paying EVERYONE, they really do not care about having a season and are prepared to damage the game even more. They can finger point all they want, but if they wanted to get something done ‘for the good of the game’ they could do so easily.
I have never heard someone go “Well that strike was going on and is over, I gotta check out what all the fuss is about!”
MLB only has 2 or the teams in any division that will try to win in 2022. All of you can look a the division and pick the top 3 teams in each division, the rest have no chance. Some divisions have only two teams. It’s the same teams year after year over the last 10 that have sucked and will continue. Some owners only want to make a lot of money, that there plan. Some teams like the Yankees and, Dodgers make a lot win or lose maybe 1or 2 more. Most teams don’t spend to win so there are more owners that don’t care. They just want to keep costs down and now there are more teams that vote things down and refuse to negotiate with MLB player union.
There are not enough great players fir every team to have 2 or 3
And the players insisting that the tax threshold be raised will make it even worse.
Mainly due to revenue sharing. Most owners aren’t motivated to improve the product on the field because they know they will receive revenue from revenue sharing.
I don’t care if it’s the owners or players fault, can’t we band together and not give them any of our money this year?
The only thing that raising the luxury tax threshold does is guarantee that the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc continue to buy up all of the best players and the small market teams continue to fall farther behind.
Attention any company worth a billion dollars, if your cashiers or secretaries or window washers arent banking 7 figures then FU you are garbage. The union says so
Have you ever gone to a business to watch a cashier, secretary, or window washer do their job?
that’s exactly what’s wrong. those people should make more working in factories. billionaires shipped most of factories to china, hence effectively killing middle class. people need well-paying manufacturing jobs not service industries low paying jobs.
Viz, you bring up a great point here, sir.
Actually, only about 20% of those jobs were sent to other countries. Most were lost to automation and artificial intelligence. People need to make adjustments and retrain themselves for jobs like nursing or law enforcement that are in need. Wishing for the good old days to come back doesn’t change the reality of technology is not going away.
F them all. That is all.
I think the owners can put their best offer out there if there is no agreement and ask for a vote of the union membership. They are so far apart that it may be worth trying. I am pretty sure the owners are not bluffing but am not sure how strong the players are on all the pie in the sky stuff they are asking for… Isn’t the minimum wage going up substantially with the new offer ?
The players have narrowed their asks significantly, including off asks the owners would never agree too. The owners, however, have barely budged on any thing.
If you make crazy demands, then back off those crazy demands a little bit, that doesn’t make your ask reasonable. I see that it is an effective strategy by the MLBPA to convince the masses (at least on here) though, so kudos to them for using that strategy.
Keep digging that hole MLB so you fall further behind.
1. NFL
2. NBA
3. MLB
The players are employees. Minimum salary is what the fight usually is in unions these days.
New employees are paid much less than experienced employees that do basically the same thing , strike out, hit a few homers and bat 240… That used to send you to the minors now it gets you 100 million.. The owners are offering a significant increase to lowest paid players. To do that the Lindor’s of the world are going to have to accept that striking out, hit a few homers and bat 240 and still make 30 million is a pretty good deal.
I can’t imagine Amazon employees demanding that Bezos share his profits with them.
In all honesty, you also don’t pay for Amazon employees to entertain you. The ones you do, the contracted movie stars from Amazon movies, get paid an obscene amount of money as do…….every top entertainer.
You don’t pay MLB players to entertain you, either. The teams pay them. I don’t understand what point you’re even trying to make. They’re both employees that are paid to do their jobs, nothing you’ve said has anything to do with tying their pay to profits/revenue.
I’m going to reprint what you wrote to show you how naive it is:
“You don’t pay MLB players to entertain you either. The teams pay them.”
Yes, with whose money does the team pay them and how does said team make that money and why? It is precisely tied to profit and revenue and if I have to explain that to you the conversation is a non-starter because you are waaaaaay behind on this one.
Do you honestly want to double-down on not knowing the difference between sports athletes and Amazon employees getting paid from profit derived as a direct consequence of their performance? Most people aren’t buying an Amazon t-shirt with “Cindy 05” on the back of it, let’s put it that way.
Name a single successful business in which the employees make more money than the owners.
Nor do they in baseball. Nor am I advocating for them to in baseball. That would be socialism. I am ardently opposed to socialism. So, what’s your point?
But if you look at the entertainment industry as a whole, Re top stars are the highest paid individuals of all involved. Look at Hollywood as an example. Or Hockey, NBA, NFL, etc.
Greedy players are killing this game
None of the MLB players deserve the money they are making. Just to mention Lindor as an example, it is shown that they are overpaid. I can name more than 100 “stars” who are not worth the salary they are paid.
Okay, and do the owners deserve billions of dollars and to charge enough that a family has to pay $200 just to go to a game, or more? That’s the problem with judging this in terms of who “deserves” what. It’s all subjective and they deserve whatever we keep paying to watch them.
How do you know that the owners are making billions of dollars? Are you talking about gross income or earnings because they are different things?
Well, ATL just released their public ownership profits for 2021 and it was $104M – profit. That’s from a revenue of over $560. One team, one ownership. There are 29 other teams = billions easily. The NYY alone have revenue of $678M. Their profit is conservatively $250-$300M.
No player is anywhere near these numbers and never will be, gross or net.
What about Tampa, Pittsburgh, Oakland. Not everyone is the Yankees or Dodgers, or even the Braves.
What about them in terms of what? You think there are players that make more than those teams? No. Pittsburg, for example, still made approximately $273M in revenue. Tampa doesn’t even belong in the discussion because they are not a small market and their revenue is higher. But, the Pirates only spent $54M in payroll! So, it’s pretty easy to see they made a tidy profit.
Same for many other teams, but how right? Well, the Pirates were given $118M in revenue sharing, but only spent $54M, the rest goes toward their profit! That’s some good business…
I used the Pirates because they’re consistently among the lowest but they’re interchangeable with other lower income teams too. So yes, LAD & NYY are much higher, but these teams still make nice profits and to say players are making more than owners is not even close to accurate. It’s pure conjecture and hyperbole.
Should read “ consistently among the lowest [revenue]”
And to add @yankeechipper Atlanta’s tv contract is sub-par.
that is cash flow , not profit…. get an accounting 101 book…
Disappointing. For me, with the owners locking the players out and their lack of creative proposals, concessions, and overall urgency is all hubris and negligent. The players were locked out and seem to be doing all the work.
Around here some people have forgotten that MLB is a business. I challenge them to name a single successful business in which the employees make more money than the owners.
I already answered this above. You’ve obviously and conveniently ignored the very premise of entertainment in a capitalist society. Welcome to 2021.
You should maybe take a look at the Trucking industry. Not much different than a bunch of crybaby millionaire ballplayers.
College professors is another industry wherein certain teachers are paid exorbitant amounts of money, some more than their boss, like celebrity law professors. And they have tenure where they can’t be fired for anything, with very few exceptions.
How do some people know that the owners are making billions of dollars? Did the see the books? Are they talking about gross income or earnings because these are different things?
A couple of days ago, Liberty Media announced its 2021 earnings, reporting $568MM in total Braves revenue, $104MM in OIBDA (operating income before debt and amortization) and a $20MM operating income. Lindor made more than that.
and only a fool would believe financial statements of large corporations at face value. that’s why they hire multiple cpa’s and lawyers.
You say that as if franchises across the board are not appreciating in value and baseball revenues are not continuing to rise. Some teams CHOOSE to carry debt and use revenue to you know…. reinvest in their assets. Lindor making more than that is a poor argument.
Players would not be claiming “outrage” if they had trump cards to play. The negotiations are over. We’re entering the “saving face” phase & this may take a while.
There will be no movement until both sides begin to suffer significant financial losses. Until regular season games are canceled, the players have suffered no losses. Soon, costs begin to get real for the players— loss of income, no service time accruing, simply put both current and future earnings are at risk because of the cancellations and no deal. The owners will have massive leverage once regular season games are canceled. This is a labor negotiation, nothing more, nothing less. This will eventually become a simple cost benefit analysis for the negotiating parties and I have a pretty good idea who will determine the costs of no deal are too great and take whatever deal is on the table.
Regular season games should have been canceled already. Spring training needs to be at least five weeks. Then there is the delay in between a deal and spring training.. That is at least six weeks right there. If there is a deal on February 28, the season could only realistically start just before mid April. You won’t have any players complaining about how cold the weather is. I say there is no baseball until some time in May at the earliest.
Have the owners issued any more lies today through Manfred and Heyman?
Dude…RobM = ROB MANFRED.
Mind…..BLOWN
It’s my burner account where I get to show my support for the players and hate for the owners.
hurryupandfigurethisoutthefansaregettingveryannoyed
atabunchofmillionairesfightingwithbillionairesabouttheirsalaries
The battle between two greedy parties continues……..
What proposals in the MLBPA current position will inevitably crack the armor of ownership into the voting blocks of the “big-market & small-market’ teams which the union can then exploit into substantial CBA gains? Oh Im’ sorry, it appears players (& their leadership) intend to overcome a unified ownership with righteous indignation & outrage.. Good luck with that.