The Yankees announced yesterday that they’ll retire Paul O’Neill’s No. 21 this season on Aug. 21. “The Warrior” won four World Series rings in the Bronx, manning right field and serving as a formidable force in the heart of many stacked Yankees lineups throughout their most recent run of dominance in the American League. O’Neill spent nine seasons as a Yankee, spanning 1993 to 2001, batting a combined .303/.373/.492 with 185 home runs. A four-time Yankees All-Star who garnered MVP votes in each of those four seasons, O’Neill also thrived in the postseason with the Yankees — evidenced by a .282/.355/.459 output and 26 extra-base hits in 304 plate appearances.
A couple more notes out of the Bronx…
- Kristie Ackert of the New York Daily News takes a look at the Yankees’ unsettled infield mix, noting that Gleyber Torres’ regression both at shortstop and with the bat leave the team with a good bit of uncertainty. DJ LeMahieu tells Ackert he’s comfortable playing at any of first base, second base or third base, but his bat best fits at second if LeMahieu’s own regression at the dish cannot be fully recovered from. Torres did post a .300/.372/.443 line in 19 games after the Yankees finally cut the cord on his time at shortstop late last season, though opinions surely vary on whether that was correlation or causation. Regardless, the downturns at the plate for both Torres and LeMahieu are troubling for a team that still needs to address its need at shortstop and is also trying to figure out who’ll man first base for the 2022 season.
- Right-hander Brendan Beck, the Yankees’ second-round pick from the 2021 draft, will miss most (if not all) of the 2022 season after quietly undergoing Tommy John surgery last summer, ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel reports (Twitter link). The Stanford product had been gearing up for his pro debut in A-ball when he incurred the injury. Beck, 23, notched a 3.15 ERA with a 32.6% strikeout rate and 5.9% walk rate in 108 2/3 frames in his final season with Stanford. Baseball America ranked him 12th among Yankees farmhands on their midseason prospect rankings last summer, but his pro debut will now likely be on hold until the 2023 season, at which point he’ll be 24 years old. While that hardly makes it too late for him to develop as expected, it’s a considerably older starting point than most prospects get on their pro careers.
Luke Voit, Gleyber Torres, and Austin Wells for Matt Olson and Elvis Andrus?
Imagine the A’s would hang up quickly.
@vtadave- Imagine the Yankees never making the call with the A’s. So no reason to ever having to hang up. Good luck trying to trade Elvis Andrus. Not happening.
Torres is a young 2nd baseman with potential star ability and Wells is our best offensive prospect and is pretty close already with the bat if not already ready. I’m not sure what Oakland would expect but I think it’s actually not a bad proposal. The Yanks most likely would have to throw in another top ten pitching prospect but losing Wells and Torres who is coming off one bad season but has shown he can be a star 2nd baseman is allot already and I would rather pass on Olsen to be honest based on asking price.
Torres isn’t young anymore, and the whole point is cost-certainty, not taking on Voit and his contract. They would hang up, them immediately block your number if that was the proposal. 15 teams can beat that one.
Torres is an average player all around. One of the worst infielders I’ve ever seen and a slightly above average hitter who strikes out too much. He had one really good season. He reminds me of Gary Sanchez kind if
Wow, that is a great comparison, Torres really is like an IF version of Sanchez. Love it.
It really depends on if the A’s want any of those guys, regardless it’s just not enough to land Olson. I think if the A’s liked Dominguez then maybe swap out Wells for Dominguez and that might work. The real problem is the amount of competition there is going to be so I’m guessing someone will blow the A’s away and walk away with Olson. I also highly doubt Oakland attaches a bad contract to Olson highly doubt that happens.
Ran that one through the Trade Simulator on BTV. Olson and Andrus had a surplus value of $41.1 mill. Torres, Voit and Wells had a surplus value of $22.2 mill. In order to make this trade equal using their system, the Yankees would need to include Jason Dominguez.
The Trade Simulator is fun to waste time with, but it’s also crap.
I’m not really sure what two years of a 1B’man is worth. Olson is quite good, but at the same time, it’s only two years at a position that has come to be viewed as a bit fungible. Good hitting is expected, and it’s not that hard to find someone to play there. For example, Voit has a 137 OPS+ with the Yankees, and a HR title, with three more years of control, yet his value is quite low. Injuries contribute to that, but it’s also how 1B is viewed.
No way the Yankees would trade Torres, Wells and Dominguez, while tossing in Voit, for two years of Olson. It’s a deal that wouldn’t make sense for either side, but I’m sure the A’s will find a solid return from some team.
@Ketch- nobody wants the A’s trash in Elvis Andrus. Olson will likely be traded to the Braves if Freddie Freeman leaves via free agency. Dominguez is going nowhere. Nice try though.
I don’t think A’s would do that, not because of Gleyber’s value, but moreso because his arb status. They would likely want Peraza or Dominguez & young, controllable, top pitching (think Luis Gil-type). My useless opinion is:
Peraza
Wells
Luis Gil
Periera
They may be able to get away with three of these four but Oakland would certainly ask for them.
@YC, that’s not a bad package, but the A’s are always an interesting team to deal with. They are very adept at rebuilding, but they want MLB ready players today. Peraza absolutely has the glove to be a plus defender in 2022, but he may need another year, or at least half a season, in AAA. Gil could help immediately. Wells’s bat supposedly will play in the majors, but is probably also a year off. The A’s likely would move him to 1B. It’s a good package, but I wonder if there’s enough MLB-ready talent to help them in 2022?
Yeah, RobM, excellent points. I’m not sure if that would even get it done. As of right now Cashman says he wouldn’t let Peraza, Domingo, or Volpe go. I don’t really see them lining up for a trade based on what you said, and especially based on what Cashman said.
Sadly, Yankee Clipper, the fact he won’t move Peraza or Volpe indicates they really have no intention of signing someone like Story. They’re going to hold their SS depth. Of course, he could be misleading, but I don’t think he is here. Here’s the problem though. If the Yankees aren’t going to sign a top SS, and they won’t move one of their top SS prospects, then they can’t trade for Olson. Something is not quite adding up.
Right? So, since Cashman is always strategizing, it could mean a few things. One, of course, is that he’s confident he will land Freeman & then pick up a stopgap guy like Iglesias. It’s also plausible, he’s planning on Rizzo & a stopgap which would be cheapest & make Hal jump for joy. Or, as you said, he’s playing hard to get and pull fast one.
It’s just hard for me to envision Cashman giving up the necessary prospects for an Olson trade because it’ll hurt. Freeman, yeah, I could see Cashman going old school and pulling a rabbit out of a hat. But, as much as I want Story, I think Cashman is more inclined to get a 1B & stopgap SS. I then pray we address pitching ….
I’m going to go devils advocate on Paul. He was a good player with Cincinnati but got traded right during the peak of the PED area to New York. Went from good to great and all while 30+ years old. Seems suspicious to me.
Fred: Who knows? But O’Neill has always been in good shape. Even today he looks like he works out constantly. Nonetheless, there’s no accusations or indications so I’d suggest he didn’t. It’s not like he played until he was 40-years-old and had a great season at 40 with no knees left & 60 lbs overweight (hello, David Ortiz!).
Then again, would evidence of almost any player using PEDs from that era being uncovered surprise me? Probably not.
As noted down below, O’Neill when he arrived on the Yankees decided to stop pulling the ball (I know, counterintuitive as a left-handed hitter at Yankee Stadium) and watched and began to emulate Mattingly’s, all-field approach. Made him a much better hitter. He never considered himself a HR hitter, but he insisted the Reds, and particularly Lou Pineilla, tried to make him the type of hitter he wasn’t. There was always tension between O’Neill and Pinella, and O’Neill to his credit used to torch the Mariners when they were managed by Lou. It was personal, but I believe they actually also respected each other. It’s interesting in they both have very similar personalties. I remember the first time I watched O’Neill on the Yankees. It was Lou all over again.
I agree Clipper. Especially on Ortiz. Just throwing it out there. I don’t really have any beef with Paul. I knew Ortiz would get in 1st ballot just because he was a “likeable guy”.
@RobM, yes. I remember Paul discussing how he worked with the coaches to not pull the ball, as tempting as it was. It’s easier said than done. I was skeptical, but he pulled it off just enough to keep the defenses honest.
I never heard of any rift between Lou Piniella and Paul O’Neill. It doesn’t mean there wasn’t. I just never heard of it.
Compared to Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle, O’Neill’s career seems a little weak. Reggie Jackson played only 4-2/3 seasons in NYY so I guess.
Idk, those Braves pitching staffs, Chipper, that’s a group I ponder: in a world without PED’s are we looking at a team who’d be considered head & shoulders above their peers with a few more rings to boot?
Fred – Well it’s not like Paul showed roid rage all the time, he was always so chill …. ahh, wait a minute …. I was thinking of Troy O’Leary …. nevermind.
@McGriff –
Gotta love a 38 year old ballplayer putting up a 20/20 season. Actually…there’s an argument *for* PEDs right there, man.
I’m just asking a legitimate question because maybe Yankee fans feel a certain way, but does Paul O’Neill really qualify as a type of player to get his number retired with the likes of the players whose numbers they have already retired? Is he on that level all-time? Just asking
I was thinking the same thing.
If anything the Reds should retire his number for kicking the ball back to the infield. It was all downhill after that.
Dodgers only retire the numbers of HOFers. Not saying all organizations should do the same, but retiring O’Neill’s number is laughable.
Sorry the Dodgers didn’t win multiple championships with any of their players. Maybe if they had they’d think about retiring some more numbers.
The Dodgers did have one great run. They won the 1955 World Series in Brooklyn and then won in 1959, 1963 and 1965 in Los Angeles. Four titles in 11 years is very impressive. Otherwise it’s just been one legitimate championship though (1988). 1981 gets an asterisk due to a significantly shortened season (108 games) but mostly due to the split-season format (Reds and Cardinals missed postseason despite best overall records in their divisions) and 2020 gets an asterisk due to playing only a 60-game season against only their own division (and AL counterpart) and playing the postseason at neutral sites with no fans.
There are no asterisks in the official MLB record book. Your opinion on the subject doesn’t matter even a little.
They didn’t go through the same grind that other World Series champions have. It would be like having the postseason start in June.
Legit question: are there are footnotes, ledger notes or similarly asterisk like things surrounding World Series won during the ww2 draft era? Seems the nature and face of competition must’ve been impacted vastly then as well…
They retired Mattingly and Bernie. They retire really good franchise players regardless of whether the HOF considers them worthy. More teams should do the same, there’s limitless numbers.
I’m wondering why the Yankees decided to retire his number 20 years after he retired. Something must have changed in their thinking.
Probably because they are running out of numbers and want to make sure that a player is deserving. It has been talked about regularly in Yankee Nation since he hung up his spikes. And I’ve not come across one Yankee fan who feels his number shouldn’t be retired.
YES (no pun intended). This is a long time coming as a hardcore Yankee fan.
Yep to most educated Yankee fans he definitely is!
BTW, anyone who understands anything about player numbers being retired will see that Paul O’Neill stacks up perfectly fine against most player numbers that have been retired across the league. He had a 125+ OPS in over 5,000 plate appearances with the Yankees. I can’t see which team wouldn’t retire the number under those circumstances. He may look a bit weak if you want to compare him to the Yankee greats but that is by no means the standard or should it be. If we only retired the Mantles, the Mays, the Chipper Jones, etc., your average team would only have like 1 number retired.
As a Yankees fan I love Pauly. He does not deserve to have his number retired. He is also not the only one undeserving to having his number retired by the Yankees. Posada, Maris and Bernie Williams shouldn’t have their numbers retired either.
You’re obviously setting a HoFer standard for a number being retired which is fine and your opinion. But it has never been the standard for a team’s practice of retiring numbers. How many baseball fans today know these players that also have had their numbers retired:
Jim Umbricht
Mike Scott
Jimmy Wynn
Don Wilson
Larry Dierker
Jose Cruz
And that’s just from ONE team.
I wouldn’t necessarily say HOF, but it would have to be close. Howard, Munson, Guidry and Mattingly are not in the HOF but are deserving IMO.
Yes, but until Biggio and Bagwell that team didn’t have a Hall of Famer so these guys were probably the closest they had! I guess you could also credit the “Stros partially for Nolan Ryan.
I think Paul is deserving, his combination of performance and longevity makes him qualified for a number retirement.
If any team deserves mocking, it’s the Rays.
The ONLY guy who played for the Rays and had his number retired by them?
Wade Boggs, who played all of 213 games and put up a whopping .750 OPS
I challenge anyone to come up with a more embarrassing retired number for a player.
Naaaaah… you got no challengers for that one…
@FPG Marlins retired number 5 because the team’s first president’s favorite player was Joe DiMaggio. That’s probably dumber than retiring Wade Boggs.
I personally like the Rays retiring Boggs’ number. I like to think it’s a subtle joke on the Redsox and Yankees. Now they just need to retire McGriff’s number.
Beans – Thanks, I didn’t know the story about the Marlins and #5. It’s even more funny learning that they “unretired” the number because Logan Morrison’s dad liked George Brett. That’s an odd organization, to say the least. I do think retiring Fernandez’s 16 would be appropriate though.
As for the Rays, they are a Florida team … ‘nuf ced.
Not a Yankees fan but I have to disagree. O’Neill was the heart of the batting order for FOUR championship teams. He may not be a Hall of Famer, but for a team that doesn’t have that as a requirement to retire a number, he’s a perfect fit.
Check Bernie Williams numbers versus HOF Kirby Puckett. You’ll be surprised how close they are.
Mad Hatter: Yeah, Bernie is often underrated imo. And retiring numbers that are “borderline” HOF could get tricky, but I still think he should get a plaque. I do believe with the current stat-based system Bernie is HOF-worthy, and if he gets in, yes, retire the number. Until then, un-retire him, Posada, and everyone else that was a courtesy retirement. I think it should be reserved for a select few, but that’s just me.
Paul is one of my favorite players from the 90’s dynasty. His personality is very similar to mine when competing. His battles with Mr. Gatorade were epic!
That said, no, it should not be retired. This is strategic, to appease Yankees fans who are pissed at the Yankees lack of roster-building. It’s…sad
Retired numbers should be for HOF players or those who had significant organizational impacts, ie, Thurman Munson & Elston Howard.
@YC, this will be my point to note that both Munson and Elston have arguments for the HOF, certainly the former. Munson played during what is regarded as the Golden Age of catchers. He led the AL in WAR for the entire 1970s. All the other catchers are in but Munson. A very underrepresented position in the Hall. Elston is a more nuanced argument. He played initially in the Negro Leagues, the Yankees held him back a bit, and then he had military service, and then arrived on the Yankees while being blocked by the second or third greatest catcher in the game’s history. In his case, he might have been a HOFer if he was drafted by another team. I do feel strongly that Munson should be in the Hall.
RobM, as usual, we see eye-to-eye here. Munson, imo, is a HOF player. I know his career was cut short, but I think he’s a HOF guy with his numbers already, given his position. But, I acknowledge, when it comes to Munson particularly, I’m pretty biased.
Highest WAR of any AL catcher in the 1970s, rookie of the year, MVP, captain of his team. It was a rich time for catchers, which is why it is referred to as the Golden Age of catchers. All his peers are in, yet the guy who was the #1 catcher in the league for that decade isn’t. I actually used to believe he fell short because of his early death, but additional time to review his stats and see where he ranked during the time he played and historically had me switch from borderline to a clear HOFer.
Only a handful of players have worn 21 since O’Neill retired and I believe it was during spring training. I recall one player being booed because he was wearing it. (I think a pitcher). It’s almost moot at this point. Yankees retire a lot of numbers, but this one has kinda been “retired” since Paul left.
@Joeyrocafella, for another team, it probably wouldn’t be questioned, when you’re a team like the Yankees, with more HOFers than any other team (I think), it probably gives pause. Thing is, retirement of numbers is not just about greatness, but popularity. It’s a way for a team to market itself. Fans outside of NY may not realize just how popular and beloved O’Neill is in NY. Frankly, I’m at a loss to think of a non-home-grown Yankee (i.e. Jeter, Rivera, Munson, Mattingly, Pettitte, Guidry etc.) who is as popular as O’Neill. Maybe CC? Even Reggie, while popular, does have his detractors. It was always a bit of love-hate with Reggie.
The Yankees love to count their rings, so any player who contributed to as many rings as O’Neill, was a key player in a legitimate dynasty, will get consideration. Being good, winning rings, and being popular is a strong path in Yankeedom to getting a retired number.
That aside, I do think this is an “accidental” retirement. I don’t believe this was the Yankees goal. They simply didn’t put his number back in circulation immediately as they did, for example, with A-Rod. Then Yankee fans got annoyed when they did attempt to give it out, so they simply mothballed it. So now they’re faced with waiting for O’Neill to exit this earth (which, btw, he seems ageless looking about three years older than when he retired 21 years ago), or they can make something of it and retire the number of a popular player, adding to the mystique of a recent dynasty. It’s all marketing.
For those fans worried about running out of numbers, remember it was the Yankees who first wore numbers. They will one day be the first team to have a player wear number 100, 101, etc. If I was a player, I’d want to be that first one, but it’s not allowed…yet. The lowness of a number doesn’t define the player; it’s what the player does while wearing that number that defines it. #99 in RF is showing that now.
How about Tino? Wasn’t he just as loved by Yankee fans as O’Neill?
Glad to see O’Neill get his due. He was the heart of those Yankee teams. If you were fortunate enough to be in NYC during the 90’s, you got to see possibly the last great dynasty in MLB. It was fun to watch, whether you were a Yankee fan or not. Nothing can compare to the vibe in the city after Charlie Hayes caught that final out in ’96. It was incredible.
The Giants won three titles in five years.
They did What does that have to do with O’Neill?
The Giants certainly should honor the key players on those championships, and one day I’m sure they will. Posey’s an easy number to retire. Madison Bumgarner, like O’Neill, will never make Cooperstown, unless he has a career resurgence, but I doubt any Giants fan would question his number being retired.
His point was those Giant teams were the closest thing to a dynasty in the last 25 years. Something that certainly cannot be discounted.
The 2010-2014 Giants had one of the more successful five-year runs in the Divisional Era along with the 1996-2000 Yankees and 1971-1975 A’s but the one thing the Giants didn’t accomplish that those other two teams did was winning consecutive championships.
The Red Sox have entered the chat
And I wouldn’t discount that. For some reason, I missed the reference to dynasty in the OP’s note initially; otherwise, I would have connected the dots.
Of course, now I’m going to annoy Giants fans. (BTW The Giants are my second favorite team. and I consider myself a fan of the team). That was a great and historic run, but it does NOT meet my standard of a dynasty, which granted is very high and specific. Not only does a team need to win the titles, but upfront they have to be viewed the team equivalent of “the man,” the team going in people expect to win and then does it. They need to dominate. That was never the Giants. Their winning percentages those years were .543, .580, .568. Their first championship they didn’t even win their division, slipping in as a Wild Card. The year after the won their first title, the finished 16 games back. That’s not a dynasty. That’s a good to very good team that had some randomness work their in their favor.
I’ve seen a few dynasties in sports during my lifetime, and recognize ones prior to my watching sports. Obviously, in baseball, the 1996-2003 Yankees were one of them. Six Al pennants, four championships, three back to back, and at their peak had one of the greatest teams ever in 1998. The Montreal Canadians of the 1970s. The Boston Celtics had an absurd run that started before I was born, winning 11 of 13 titles. The NY Islanders of the late ’70s and early ’80s winning four straight Cups. The Oakland A’s of the 1970s, with five straight division titles and three straight championships. Upfront, they were all viewed as the team to win, and they did. Meanwhile, I DON’T consider the Yankees of ’76-’81 a dynasty, even though they won four AL titles and back-to-back championships.
Fans of teams absolutely want to have their teams considered as dynasties. Fans and media try to declare emerging dyansties up front, like they thought the Cubs would be. They almost always fail. Maybe my hubris as a Yankee fan. I have high standards for the word dynasty.
Historically a dynasty is an unbroken line of succession, which implies that a title must be successfully defended, which the Giants never did.
@RobM
You have your years mixed up. The Giants won their division in both 2010 and 2012. They were a Wild Card in 2014. They were also a Wild Card in 2016 but they lost to the Cubs in the NLDS that year.
I put the 1976-1981 Yankees, 1970-1976 Reds and 1966-1971 Orioles all in the same group. They all won four pennants and two World Series titles. I know the Orioles didn’t win back-to-back but all three of these teams go in the borderline dynasty category. They aren’t indisputable dynasties but they won more than once and they were getting to the World Series year after year. They definitely deserve a place in history.
@48-team, you’re correct. I did a quick look at the numbers, and then worked off memory. Always dangerous!
I stick by my overall view on dynasties. It’s a very high bar for me, but everyone has their own view, similar to HOF voting.
A lot of people miss the last three years of the Yankees dynasty though. And realistically, it started in ‘95 too. They were still a great team, they just didn’t win the WS. 2004 it was definitely over because they were overcome in the historical 3-0 lead by Boston… end of dynasty.
Dare I add in ’94? I think we were heading toward a Yankees-Expos World Series. I do sort of begin the Yankees dynasty in ’96, because Torre took over as manager, Jeter arrived at SS, Rivera was in the bullpen. All the core pieces were in place. Credit to Buck Showalter, who really helped build that group along with Gene Michael. He even had Jeter sitting on the bench for the ’95 playoffs even though he wasn’t on the roster yet to let him experience the postseason. Kind of humorous looking back that Jeter would need “seasoning” for the postseason, a time of the year he’d live in for next 20 years. Also, I questioned Showalter putting Rivera on the roster. To this day, he’ll say he didn’t know what he had in Rivera, but he saw enough to think he’d be useful in the series.
Yeah, very true. Torre & the full core four is a great marker for the start of the dynasty.
I like tht his player profile page mentions that he bats, throws, and kicks left.
That’s hilarious! Good catch.
Man.
Ya know, I thought Kelly for O’Neill was a bad trade. Ooops. 21 has been unofficially retired for years now. Nice to see the formality though. Good hitter. Good player. Exceptional competitor. Exceptional Yankee.
Loved Paul. If we could only have 9 O’Neill’s right now, right?
Honestly, that might actually be too much intensity in the dugout. Sure would light a fire under Le Booner’s ass though.
Wouldn’t even need Boone at that point. We need a Warrior back, man. Paulie for manager!!! Imagine him punching the Gatorade when Sanchez strikes out or Torres bobbles a grounder?!
Hey, did you & Joe see the nj.com article with Goose? He slammed Cashman for his analytics & said Hal should sell the team because he doesn’t really want to be there. I agree with Goose on the latter for sure.
I don’t always disagree with Goose but he rants so much I don’t pay much attention to him.
I guess it would depend on who would buy the Yankees. The CBS years didn’t go so well.
100 percent, Joe. He goes off the deep end often. I would want someone who is competitive and wants to win. I think Derek Jeter would’ve been a really good personality to own the Yankees, but who knows.
I’m not in any rush to have the Steinbrenners sell the Yankees. Falls under the “be careful what you wish for” category. Hal may lack the brash and impulsive nature of his father, but he runs a tight ship. The Yankees are good year in and year out. The Yankees have been good for so long that fans don’t realize how having a bad owner is totally soul crushing. Hal may not exude the passionate owner vibe of his father, but he’s not a bad owner at all. He makes sure they’re in contention yearly. He spends a lot of money on the MLB roster and on the farm. If you had to rank all 30 owners, he’s probably in the top five or six.
Goose has turned into the angry old man. Loved him though as a player. High intensity. Wasn’t afraid to tell anyone off, including Martin.
Trade Aaron. Profiles to age terribly and has already shown a major lack of durability despite not even reaching 30 yet, and he is going to expect a ridiculous contract on top of that. Signing him long term would be crazy. Trade him now.
Retired numbers are getting to be like the HOF, which has become the HODP; the Hall of Decent Players. No one doubts that O’Neil had impact during his Yankee years, but really, give him the same honor usually reserved for the Mantle and Ruth?
It’s not a big deal, but it’s kind of superfluous.
At this pace, in another 50 years, all low numbers for the Yankees will be retired and they will all have to wear numbers like 64, 75, and 93…
As long as the championships flow in,who cares.
Adding about $45 mil to payroll would go a long way towards fixing our infield, lineup, & bench for ’22.
Re-sign Rizzo. Sign Story. Sign Chirinos to replace Higashioka. Trade Voit to the Brewers for Cousins & Cain. That keeps our prospects intact, while improving us from a painfully ugly defensive team to a good one, adds some real (& much needed) speed, & gives us a much deeper (& balanced) lineup.
Don’t sign Rizzo. Don’t continue the post-2000 Yankees ‘tradition’ of signing has-beens who contribute virtually nothing to the team.
I’ve been an advocate of signing Rizzo and Story since the season ended. The defensive upgrade (over a full season) is under appreciated. Plus you avoid the long term risks that the 1A options at those positions have. Forcing Torres to hit his way into the lineup over DJ and Gio might be the best thing for him.
Rizzo is a 0-2 war level player at this point. Complete waste.
I got there when the lockout began, @Winfield.
I watch the Yanks & Big Blue. Always have & always will. But, before the deadline we were really hard to watch, man. I spent as much time painting decoys & tying flies as I did actually witnessing us play. Absent the juicyball, all of our shortcomings (defense, speed, balance, high K%) were highlighted. Awful ” style” of baseball aesthetically.
I would honestly be content with an offseason in which we “only” came away with Rizzo & Story. Obviously, I am greedy & would love more. But that would be enough to keep us relevant at least.
It was an amazingly boring team. It’s a problem when watching Nestor Cortes pitch was a highlight.
@StudWinfield-as much as we want Story to sign with the Yankees it is unlikely to happen, except if it’s a 1 year deal and he hits the market again next season. I think there’s a much better chance of the Yankees resigning Rizzo, especially if Freeman stays with the Braves.
Ducky, you know I’m a huge Story fan already so I’m good with that. And, if we get Story, we are fine with Rizzo’s bat. I would consider a trade with Gleyber, depending on the return. Not that I’m down on him because I’m not. I think he’s got incredible value. But, we may be able to capitalize on a trade that nets us a key piece to move forward in the division and the playoff run. Then pick up a Villar-type for bench role.
We could also go with Hosmer at 1B if we get Story and they include Campusano. It’ll solve our future catching problem. Just a thought.
Speaking of which, saw an awesome catching article on SSTN that ranked catchers based on 16 different metrics, called “The Determinator”. Good stuff, man. Of course, it’s no surprise that Realmuto is the #1 catcher, yet again.
Yeah, you sold me on Story, @Clipper.
I am completely opposed to Hosmer. Left a post for you on the Olsen thread in re to why. I could do Meyers instead of Hosmer – lineup balance be dammed.
@YC- @DBF- Yeah guys I like Story also. But let’s face it Ca$hman will sign a stopgap like Jose Iglesias for a year till Peraza is able to man shortstop later in 2022, assuming there is a 2022 season. Remains to be seen. Would you guys trade Judge and Voit for Soto? Lmk
Interesting, never thought about Hoz going to the Yanks. He’s played in some laid back cities, would he be able to handle NYC? Despite all the dislikes, I still believe Hosmer is an above average player, would like to see him return to KC but that contract…. yikes!
The contract is the issue. The Padres would have to incentivize the Yankees to take that on, such as including a top prospect, but that wouldn’t be smart on their part. Never really can tell what Preller will do. He makes very smart moves, but also some very questionable ones too.
Yep Hoz’s contract is the issue, however the contract is declining in it’s later years. At the time I thought SDP overpaid for Hosmer, but you know he’s not going to say no I’m not worth that. SDP have received a decent, everyday 1st baseman in it’s return. I don’t see Hoz going to the Yanks, just staying put in SD but who am I. 🙂
No.
His play is the issue, @RobM. He is now a below average defensive first baseman, trending towards a Voit comp. His grounder heavy approach would be abysmal in The Stadium. He would not reap any reward from the short porch.
Indeed with the way the RF is involved with shifting, his offensive “performance” would be worse than it is in SD. He is the rare lefty bat who would be hampered by our park. Think of Brian McCann but with less power.
You’re right, Hoz’s ground ball tendency with limited power is not a fit in NY.
Not sure in agreement with defense going down, Hoz’s fielding percentage and other defense metrics are somewhat in line with his past performances.
Let’s not get carried away there, Ducky, comparing Hosmer’s glove to Voit’s. : -)
I don’t disagree at all. Hosmer has regressed. I still might take him on even for a league average bat if they could get the right prospect back. Not going to happen though. If the Pads want to move Hosmer, they’re better off paying down his contract and holding their prospects.
2 OAA since ’20. He is now average at best defensively.
Yeah, Clip would too.
You guys tend to look farther down the road than I do.
I’m concerned with mostly nothing past ’22. As such, Eric Hosmer is a direct impediment to fielding a better ballclub. Meyers might not be. But Hosmer actively hurts us & our hopes of postseason, pennant, etc.
Don’t get me going on defensive metrics, especially at 1B. I do recognize he’s going in the wrong direction, but Voit is a horrible defensive 1B’man. No worries. Hosmer will not be on the Yankees. There is still a non-zero chance (quite better, actually) that Voit remains the Yankees 1B’man. They should be looking to improve, but plopping Voit and his 130 wRC+ bat back over there won’t be a problem as long as he can stay healthy. I want some lefty/righty balance, but they also shouldn’t do anything crazy just to put a lefty bat there. I still have a hard time seeing Freeman not signing with the Braves, but if the Braves leave the door open, welcome aboard, Freddie.
Ducky, that’s not bad but as more time goes by, I’m getting excited by the possibility of Freeman. Also I wouldn’t mind a deal that moves Voit for Kiermaier. It would take a third team to get involved as Tampa won’t trade directly with the Yankees and Voit wouldn’t be the only piece moved but it wouldn’t take any of our top prospects either.
JoeSays: I know, I thought it was a definitive, “No!” for Freddie. But the more articles written, the more it seems he’s a legitimate possibility. And, if Cashman does have a man-crush on him, he will get him.
I do think a Freeman acquisition will mean Judge goes elsewhere though. Just my opinion.
Well, Freeman + Story > Rizzo + Story, @Joe.
But it looks like the AAV for Freeman won’t be much less than Rizzo & Story combined. Which is the Big Reason I lean towards Rizzo.
I’d prefer Kiermaier too.
But there has been continued smoke around Voit for Cain. & as you note it’s a much more straightforward process. & I am also trying to add one of those righty extreme slider guys to our ‘pen. Thus: Cousins.
Imagine Freeman & Story? I wouldn’t even ….I would publicly apologize to Cashman for my repeated accusations that he isn’t capable of building the roster properly & take back my comments about Hal’s ownership (temporarily).
Man.
How about a straight up King George style free agent binge? Freeman, Story…Suzuki…&…some big name, quite possibly washed up starter. Say Johnny Cueto. Like that.
Wouldn’t be the first time the Yanks gave up on a 1B type and moved him to St. Pete….
June 17, 2021. The New York Yankees traded Mike Ford to the Tampa Bay Rays for a player to be named later and cash. The Tampa Bay Rays sent Aldenis Sanchez (minors) (July 1, 2021) to the New York Yankees to complete the trade.
Adding 45 million would go a long way for most teams.
Oh, for sure, @schellis.
Good thing the Yanks are a team capable of such a splurge, uh?
The White Sox need a second baseman and the Yankees need a first baseman, preferably one who hits left-handed. How about a trade centering on D.J. LeMahieu going to New York and Gavin Sheets headed to the Bronx? The White Sox get a veteran 2B to replace much of the hit tool they lost with last summer’s Nick Madrigal trade. New York not only gets Sheets left-handed power but also can take the salary they would owe LeMahieu and use it on a nice downpayment for either Trevor Story or Carlos Correa and solve their SS dilemma in a big way.
If the Yankees prefer keeping LeMahieu over Gleyber Torres as their second baseman, I’m certain the ChiSox would also have interest in a trade revolving around the latter and Sheets.
O’Neill also once hit two home runs (technically, a homer and a triple w/ an error) in a game for a sick kid that Kramer made a deal with to get Steinbrenner’s birthday card back.
Paul O’Neill couldn’t even hit 2 home runs in a game to lift the spirits of a kid in the hospital.
Def doesn’t deserve to have his number up there
LeMahieu at first. Torres at 2nd. Trade Voit for a shortstop with 1-2 years of control left.
I’m willing to bet CC’s number 52 is coming soon as well.
Then Steinbrenner will retire number 0 for himself – the amount he likes to spend.
I’m sure a Hal Steinbrenner appreciation day will go over really well!!
The attendance would be like a 2020 game! Cardboard cutouts everywhere….
Seems like they’re getting out of hand with the retiring of numbers. Would like to see them un-retire the numbers of Roger Maris, Billy Martin, Phil Rizzuto, Ron Guidry & Reggie Jackson as well.
There are several they could reasonably un-retire. The plaque is honor enough, imo. #6?
I would like to see them go the route of the UNC Tarheels. For them, they have retired numbers and honored numbers. Getting a number retired requires a National Player of the Year award. But to have a number honored, it just requires being a great player. The Yankees should do something similar.
Yeah, honored numbers! Perfect. Plaque with a jersey and memorialize it that way, but someone can still wear that number in the future. That’s a great way to do it!
If I were a championship contending team I’d sign Paul O’Neill as a lefty Off the bench
When the Yankees traded for Paul O’Neill (sending the Reds Roberto Kelly) Bill James panned it. Thought Kelly would be a rising star, and O’Neill was already 30. But Kelly had already peaked (had 13.2 BWAR with NYY, finished with 20.5 for 6 more teams) and O’Neill thrived.
The analytic types (and I’m one of them) didn’t like trading an athletic CF type for what they viewed as a past-prime RFer. I was fine with the trade though. Gene Michael knew more than a thing about analytics and indeed pushed the Yankee team toward more high OBP player. He knew what they had in Bernie and wanted to add a lefty bat.
O’Neill was always being pushed to be a power hitter as a Reds player. Oddly, when O’Neill arrived on the Yankees, the concern was he’d try to pull the ball into the short porch. Instead, he emulated Mattingly and began to use the entire field. His BA went up as did his value.
L99: I recall O’Neill doing an interview and talking on that point about being pushed to be a lower bat. He said he felt so much better in NY just being able to drive the ball instead of trying to hit it out all the time. Makes sense & obviously worked.
@Yankee Clipper, yup. He also felt less pressure getting away from Cincinnati. Unusual. Players often feel more pressure coming to NY. Paul experienced the opposite.
Lord, echoed above. (Sounds almost religious.)
I’d like to see the Yankees trade their top stars for stud prospects to build around kids like Anthony Volpe, Lee Harvey Perazza and Jason Dominguez the next couple of years. They keep throwing deadweight like Joey Gallo upon deadweight like Anthony Rizzo. They need to field a team from the bottom up instead of the top down. Imagine the prospect return for Garrett Cole or Aaron Judge.
A full rebuild is not in the Yankees DNA. They will always build their team around high priced stars. What they need to do is get back to developing their future stars themselves like they did so well in the 90’s. This means showing restraint at the trade deadline unless they are truly 1-2 pieces away from a championship caliber team.
@Dorothy, you’re correct. They don’t do full rebuilds, meaning they don’t collapse, but they do a very good job of juggling their prospect talent and high-priced talent. This is a team that hasn’t had losing season since the early 90s. They pulled off a complete rebuild about five years back without ever collapsing. It just didn’t go quite as well as they hoped, but adding in Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Bird, Andujar and Montgomery was an excellent infusion of young and cheap talent. The issue is Bird and Andujar both had significant labrum surgeries (and Bird other issues) they basically never fully recovered from. Severino gave them three excellent years, then was lost several years to injuries, including TJS. Montgomery lost almost two years with TJS. Sanchez is a failed development story. Started strong, then regressed. My point is they were building a core from within with good success, but it lost traction. It’s baseball. It happens. To their credit, they’ve been able to keep it together.
Lost during the pandemic overhang is the Yankees had one of the top 10 farm system in mid-2021 according to Fangraphs. They then traded a chunk of talent to bring in Rizzo and Gallo and other pieces simply because they couldn’t hold all the players. Too many lower-end prospects for too few 40-man spots, so they moved players further off to avoid another Whitlock situation. They were able to hold their top-end talent, and cashed in the A-ball prospects knowing there’s another wave of young players who are going fill the lower minors this year.
The Yankees do a much better job than most realize with their farm and talent based on where they draft. Not losing for almost 30 years is almost impossible in baseball no matter how much money you spend, as the Red Sox know themselves. Well, unless you’re the Dodgers. They spend Yankee money with Rays smarts. They somehow have the #1 ranked system in the game despite winning every year. There needs to be an investigation!
I think you’re both correct. Imo, if they don’t secure Judge on an extension post-lockout, they need to trade him and build their farm with some key players.
Dorothy, you’re dead-on and that’s why they should not have traded prospects at last trade deadline simply to make the playoffs. It was not a wise move. Although, as a fan of course I liked the fact it got them to the postseason, but long-term, not a good practice.
Paul O’Neill played with the Nasty Boys in Cincinnati under former Yankee Lou Pinella – – that helped give him the character he brought to the Yankees – Jeter was the best player, Mariano Rivera was the soul, but O’Neill was the heart
Remember the rap song they all did during the ‘90(?) playoffs? Lol, Paul was not a rapper…..
Paul O’Neil was one of my favorite players back when he was with the Reds. The man had a Howitzer for an arm!
…and amazing accuracy with his left leg.
The way the Yankees are handing out retired numbers, fifty years from now (if MLB is still around), they will have to start giving players triple digit numbers.
For an organization as storied as the Yankees, Paul O’Neill does not deserve to have his number retired. Jeter: yes, Mo Rivera : yes. Posada, Bernie & O’Neill : no. That honor should be reserved for the best of the best, and on that I will rest.
Willie Randolph should have his number retired before the Warrior. I love Paulie but retiring his number is a bit much.
Whose number won’t they retire? This one is ridiculous.
Refsnyder
Paul O’neill had a great career. But when I think “Yankees” his name is way down the list. In fact, when I think of that great run in the 90s/early 2000’s his name is also way down the list.
Good for him, but I’m a little surprised.
Good for O’Neil. The Yankees had de facto retired his #21 essentially anyway. Might as well do it for real.
If the Yankees were to retire numbers of players as deserving as O’Neill, then they would have to start giving out 3-digit numbers.
Yankees more deserving than O’Neill to have their numbers retired:
Red Ruffing, Willie Randolph, Roy White, Tony Lazzeri, Earl Combs, Graig Nettles, Mel Stottlemyre, Charlie Keller, Gil McDougal, Ricky Henderson, Bobby Murcer, Dave Winfield, Waite Hoyt, Mike Mussina, CC.
Does smashing a water cooler after you strike out make you a warrior? A person in need of anger management makes one a warrior?
What about Lefty Gomez ? Spent his whole Hall of Fame career with the Yankees and gets absolutely no recognition
You’re right. Although he is in the baseball Hall of Fame, he certainly contributed to the Yankees greatness more than Paul O’Neill. Gomez’ number 11 should definitely be retired.