The Blue Jays have had discussions with the Guardians about trades involvingĀ Jose Ramirez, with the idea of using him as a second baseman, tweets Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. In a subsequent tweet, Rosenthal adds that it’s unclear if Toronto’s acquisition of Matt Chapman will alter these discussions, hypothesizing that the Jays don’t want to continue depleting their prospect stock with yet another huge deal.
The fact that the Jays are interested in Ramirez is not surprising for multiple reasons. The team’s president and general manager, Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins, were both with Cleveland from the time of Ramirez’s signing through his first few MLB seasons. There’s also the fact that Ramirez is incredibly talented and affordable. Over the past six seasons, he’s hit 155 home runs, stolen 134 bases and hit .286/.364/.531, for a wRC+ of 135 and 32.7 fWAR. He’ll make $11MM this season and has a $13MM club option for next season. He’s also a switch-hitter, which would benefit a Blue Jays lineup that skews heavily right-handed. Furthermore, it has been previously reported that the Jays unsuccessfully tried to acquire Ramirez at last year’s trade deadline.
While Ramirez would certainly be an offensive upgrade over the Cavan Biggio–Santiago Espinal pairing the Jays currently have projected at second base, the plan would come with some complications. For one, Ramirez’s experience at second base is limited. He played there sporadically in the first few years of his career until 2017, when he got into 71 games at the keystone. That dropped to 16 games in 2018 and he hasn’t played there since.
There’s also the fact that the Guardians don’t really have the financial motivation to move Ramirez. They’re currently projected for an Opening Day payroll of just $52MM, per Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. Even for a typically low-spending team like them, that’s incredibly low, giving them little incentive to subtract the $11MM owed to Ramirez.
Also, there’s the question of whether Cleveland would want to do this from a public relations standpoint. The fanbase already had to endure a trade of a face-of-the-franchise player one year ago when Francisco Lindor was dealt to the Mets. That was followed up by the team abandoning the nickname they had used for over a century, a move that was clearly quite unpopular with certain sections of the club’s diehards. To turn around and trade the team’s best player yet again would only do further damage to the relationship between the franchise and their customers.
Finally, there’s also the fact that Cleveland can still compete in the AL Central. Despite a litany of injuries to their starting rotation last season, the team still finished 80-82. Even with marginally better luck on the health front, they should be able to push themselves back over .500 and into a playoff race, especially with an extra playoff spot being available this year. Given their incredibly low payroll commitments, they should be able to add to their roster rather than subtract, particularly in the outfield.
48-team MLB
*SPIDERS
junkmale
Haha. Never let it die (I am in agreement with you, they should’ve reverted back to Spiders)
Our Tribe
They were never the Spiders, different franchise
rememberthecoop
The Cleveland Rocks.
dixoncayne
Do you still whine to that the Dodgers left Brooklyn?
Chin Music
Yes I do!
thebluemeanie
*still a loser
For Love of the Game
Trade Ramirez and the Guardians will be in a lot more 2-1 nailbiters!
Digdugler
As a Jays fan this seems highly unlikely after Chapman trade. However, I would be very surprised if Ramirez wasnt traded somewhere given its the Clevelands.
Greg Searles
The Cleveland Show/
vbcbpt
Could Chapman be traded to Cleveland?
Avory
Heck no. Would undermine what Ramirez would bring back. They’d want Chapman from three years ago, not Chapman today.
Jose’s n0t going anywhere, as this post basically says. It’s a complete non-story, a waste of time.
Rangers29
THEY TRADED NOTHING FOR CHAPMAN HOLY CRAP THIS TRADE IS ACTUALLY GONNA GO DOWN
48-team MLB
1992 rematch?
rememberthecoop
Stop shouting. And take a benzo.
Shatner
Hoglund appears to be a pretty good prospect, the other guys are suspects. Good trade for Toronto.
Milwaukee-2208
Blue jays gotta chill. They playing on *accept all trades mode*
Hello, Newman
Yolo Canadian lifestyle
In nurse follars
No. Toronto would need to give up controllable major league talent. The 40 is stacked so a prospect trove deal cannot work. Guard still needs to clear 2 or 3 roster spots without a trade. Also, for a team that struggles to score, where does ramirezā run production come from? How is this team improved? No.
jdgoat
If Cleveland is having roster issues, they can throw Bieber and Clase in the deal to help reduce the 40 man headache.
Avory
@ In nurse follars
This is the aspect about transactions that people just can’t grasp when it comes to the Tribe. Cleveland is completely disinterested in trading Jose. What they ARE interested in is trading some guys off their cluttered roster for major league ready guys at positions of need. A Ramirez trade makes little sense in so many ways, but in terms of roster construction, it makes no sense at all.
DarkSide830
little late on this it would seem
stymeedone
Guessing these “talks” occurred before the Chapman trade.
Edp007
Pearson Hatch Biggio and Kirk for Jram
vtadave
Cleveland passes.
DarkSide830
i bet they do, but should they?
rememberthecoop
I think they can do better.
hockeyjohn
Nothing in that package helps the Guardians. Pearson at best this year with his injury history is a reliever. Cleveland values defense at catcher so Kirk doesn’t fit. Cleveland is loaded with middle infielders so Biggio not a fit. Cleveland easily says no. They are not trading Ramirez.
In nurse follars
How do they make Cleveland better?
sufferforsnakes
Gasoline and matches?
Digdugler
Probably more like Martinez, Pearson Biggio Kirk. but this doesnt seem necessary from a Toronto standpoint to try and convert him to a 2B for 2 years.
jensan
How about trading Pearson , Jansen + Biggio for Marte
roiste
What was the point of getting Chapman if you’re gonna get Ramirez – they both can only play third, and their defense is a huge part of their value, so it seems a waste to DH one of them
kidbryant
That’s a decent offer right there … Guardians would take that deal.
Mario93
Biggio, Pearson, Groshans, might get the talks going. Add Olervis Martinez whatever his name is, might have something. A pitcher or two, and probably would have a deal. Thatās a lot of bodies that would be going to Cleveland.
In nurse follars
Guard has no room on the 40. Theyād want Kirk, Groshans, Gurtiel, and Pearson at least. Theyād have to give Toronto some roster dead weight.
Richard Head
Toronto would be giving up too much with this trade. While Moreno is probably the only untouchable right now, Orelvis is encroaching in that territory. I think Biggio, Pearson and Groshans + one more B prospect would be more than fair.
Mario93
Probably agree, itās just that Cleveland is asking for the moon.
Richard Head
Hard to blame them I suppose…
Prospectnvstr
Mario93: The CLEVELAN-DIANS should be asking for the moon in return for Ramirez. They have no incentive to accept anything other than an aggressive trade package for him.
hockeyjohn
Not from the Cleveland perspective. Cleveland is loaded with infield prospects so Groshans and Biggio do not fill a need. Cleveland is not trading Ramirez..
BigFootsFart
Jesus. This team would be stupid good. It wouldn’t be fair. Mets need to go after Jose. Jays get him and it’s GGGGGGGG
hoags1137
They want manoah, Moreno to start. No way the jays give that up for jram
NoRegretzkys
As much as Iād love Jram, if costs are similar, Iād prefer the Jays to go for Marte.
Digdugler
lol “to start”
I agree this trade isnt happening which is why the tweet was so random.
In nurse follars
Plus. That alone does not get him. They need major league talent. Add gurriel and someone else and maybe.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Now that Neil Huntington is with the Guardians, I can picture a trade of Jose Ramirez, F Reyes, and their top three prospects for Julian Merryweather.
hockeyjohn
Huntington has nothing to do with the front office and trades. His primary focus will the restructuring of Progressive Field.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yikes.
Blue Jay’s going to score a lot of runs, man. Add Ramirez & they just might cross home plate a thousand times.
roiste
Where’s he gonna play though
rememberthecoop
3B when Chapman is injured, which he will be, 2B and DH the rest of the time.
DanielDannyDano
Hypothetical…… It would probably cost Lourdes Gurriel, jr, Alejandro Kirk, Cavan Biggio and pick one, Gabe Moreno or, heaven forbid, Alek Manoah.. Toronto will never agree to Cleveland’s demands, and the Guardians aren’t giving JRam up for cheap.
NoRegretzkys
Then they can lose with him for the next 2 years before they get even less for him at the 2024 deadline.
Avory
That’s just it: with him, Cleveland is a winner. That’s what YOU don’t get. And in these next two years he’ll be a monster.
mrnotsoniceguy
Heāll be a Giant
mattynokes
Unless they’re absolutely blow away, this is just Cleveland doing due diligence and keeping line of communication open.
emax
Shi Davidi of Sports Net said the Jays would be sending a package of Biggio, Kirk, Moreno, Groshans and two additional prospects to get the deal done. He said the Jays donāt want to trade Moreno and are trying to add Pearson to the deal instead. Ramirez would play second and likely bay in the 2 spot.
Mario93
Yeah, if they want Moreno, the Jays should probably hang up. Cleveland is being greedy at that point. Biggio, Pearson, Kirk, Groshans, is a really solid package, they want another nice prospect take it. But no to Moreno.
hockeyjohn
What you forget Marlo is a trade has to meet the needs of both teams. Your package does not do that. Why trade Ramirez and not get players that meet your needs.
BuJoBi
What Mario is saying, is if they need Moreno “hang up” or try to add someone else.
I would do the same, Moreno is gonna be a beast
hockeyjohn
Justasy, and what I am saying is that Cleveland has no reason to trade Ramirez now. To get Cleveland to trade him will cost what Cleveland wants, not necessarily what the Jays want to give up.
stugots
AL playoff teams be the Jays Rays Yankees Wsox Astors and āāļø twins mariners Red Sox Tigers fighting for last spot
StPeteStingRays
With the new playoff format, could we see 4 teams from the AL East in the postseason? Crazy
Dorothy_Mantooth
Thereās no way the Twins are competing for a wild card this year as currently constructed. They have absolute garbage on the pitcherās mound. Theyāll have to acquire another 2 impact starters for them to have a remote chance of making the playoffs. It sounds like they are looking into one of the Aās starters (which would be a great start) but theyād still have some issues with starters and in the bullpen too.
Shoguneye
Jram, FF and I’d say its a wrap, lol
"Sixth City" Guards
As a Cleveland fan, I think it be best to sell high right now. We prob not going compete this year (Not saying it couldn’t happen) but our offense is horrible We need to make some other moves for this to happen but we could get a haul for him. I start with Gurriel and add from there though. We could use him more than anyone Tor got.
tuna411
cleveland has strong pitching in a weak division…they absolutely can contend
Old York
They should get this done. I think they got Chapman to flip to another team.
Edp007
Feel sorry for Charlie , I f they get Jram , play second , but how do u stack the lineup ?
Springer
Bo
Jram
Vladdy
Teo
Lourdes
Chapstick
Grich
Danny/McG
Mario93
I donāt think you touch Vladdy in the 3 hole. Imo you keep him there. Probably bats 4th behind Vladdy, then teo. It would be a beautiful lineup definitely.
Edp007
Ya lol aināt it a beaut
Dustyslambchops23
Why grichuk and McGuire and no Kirk? Heās a better hitter than both of them
TheRickestRick
Because heās probably traded to get JRam
brucenewton
Jays going ā99 Indians with 1000 runs scored this year.
Oh Boy Here We Go
Jose Ramirez has a 1 year 12 mill deal this year and 1 year 14 mill club next year.
So 2 years 26 mill.
If Jays are serious Pearson, Groshans, Espinal, Kirk, Samad Taylor or Otto Lopez as the final piece should get it done. A lot for the Jays to give up but if you’re going for it. Go for it.
Edp007
Do it. Cleveland could throw in Naylor for the 4th of to share time with grichuk. Done deal. Press conference in an hour.
In nurse follars
How do they replace run production and fit on the 40? Volume does not help. They need major league ready talent.
Oh Boy Here We Go
I’d trade Logan Allen, same with Sam Hentges, for some lotto tickets, 17 18 year olds, who are years away from 40 man protection worries.
Release Austin Hedges as Kirk becomes the catcher. Id release Anthony Gose. Nice story of a position player converting to a pitcher but if you’re worried about 40 man stuff.
They have a lot of INF depth they could deal. Owen Miller. Ahmed Rosario. Andres Gimenez. Id release Ernie Clement to make room.
So trade Allen and Hentges, Release Hedges. Release Gose. Release Clement. Trade 1 of Miller Rosario or Gimenez. So thats 6 spots opened up.
"Sixth City" Guards
I agree. People on here acting like they can’t trim down the 40. Owen Miller, Zimmer, Mercado. They all are expendable to me. With the emergence Of Quantrill, you could even entertain trading Plesac..
hockeyjohn
Cleveland values defense, especially at catcher so I don’t see Kirk as their catcher because he is not good defensively. It would be a radical change from their philosophy which has helped developed their pitching successes.
Dustyslambchops23
As fun as this would be, itās probably one last check in to see if hoglund, Biggio and Kirk would have got the deal done before moving on to Chapman.
I think Cleve holds on to him for now and maybe moves him at the deadline or next offseason. Fun to dream though!
Ted
Surprisingly Jose Ramirez is only 2.5 years older than Cavan Biggio. Feels like he should be far older than that.
rememberthecoop
For the Jays, I wonder how good Springer is going to be. Will he be healthy and even if so, will he produce to the level of his AAV?
sufferforsnakes
*Tribe
Edp007
Feels like George Steinbrenner resurrected and bought the Jays. Mind u Rogers Corp probably wealthier than Cohen. All good on Jays land. No cheap pockets here.
What I like when Shatkins were criticized , they said they had a plan were gonna rebuild and spend when the team was ready. No one believed them. Full faith in jays management here.
Foxxfire
Amen to that, been saying it whenever i can, this management has reached tbr levels. Casual fans are such ignorant loudmouths that think grichuk can get you a jose ramirez no problem!, why don’t those stupid lifetime trained shatkins types listen to the fans! its so easy! well, as is the style at the time
Foxxfire
Also I want soto, what do you think, joe biagini?
TheRickestRick
You sound like Davidi today on the tv and radio saying the same thing.
StPeteStingRays
Backoff, blue birds. If Ramirez comes to the AL East, it’ll be Tampa Bay or Boston. Freeman or Ramirez will land with the Rays. We definitely have the prospect capital to pull off a trade with Cleveland.
Digdugler
but you are the Rays.
StPeteStingRays
Very observant. Please continue to underestimate. It plays into our favor
Dustyslambchops23
I mean, it would be great for the Rays to do something bold like that but when have they ever?
I canāt think of a situation where they traded top prospects for a player with 2 years of control left. Rays should be doing this stuff, but they donāt
StPeteStingRays
I understand your point, but we’ve also never been this ready to move all-in. We’re a playoff team as is, but a couple more significant pieces could make a serious WS push
Dustyslambchops23
How is the position youāre in now any different that most of the last decade ?
The rays have been one the most consistently good teams over the last 10 years and never once made a move like Freeman, or Jram.
Even as a jays fan I would love to see it, but itās hard to expect it
StPeteStingRays
Easy, we’re stacked with organizational depth and prospect capital like never before. The Rays have zero glaring holes coming off a 100 win season. We are in need of an impact bat, ideally a RHB, and we also need another arm for the rotation like Montas. We’ve never been in this position, never.
Foxxfire
@Digdugler The smartest, most ahead of the curve team I’ve ever seen in sports. Those Rays? The Rays that continue to be elite playoff threats despite having their payroll counted on an abacus.
Those Rays? You’d think the now decades of underestimation would go noticed.
Oh Boy Here We Go
Should the Rays sign Freeman and trade for Jose Ramirez? Yes.
But will the Rays is the question.
StPeteStingRays
We’ve made a legitimate offer to Freeman, so we’ll see. Acquiring both would be of epic proportions for Tampa Bay. I’d be highly surprised if we land both, along with everyone else.
bbfansince81
Like I posted in another section, I donāt know if I should laugh or feel bad for you as a TB fan.
Still in talks
Why would he play 2nd if it occured before the Chapman trade?
tomyo10
If they trade Josey without a long-term contract offer, fans will revolt even more. They have great young arms and tons of young talent almost here, but Josey is on a different level. And he is definitely the most popular guy on that team.
The Dolans will see the effects of the name change and awful logo in the attendance this year. You can’t do dollar dogs and fireworks every night.
basquiat
“…the team (Guardians) still finished 80-82. Even with marginally better luck on the health front, they should be able to push themselves back over .500 and into a playoff race…”
Well, that’s setting the bar to the lowest possible threshold for the season. Winners say ‘we plan to win the World Series, nothing less.’ If you don’t set high goals, who will follow you? Paul Dolan’s business plan is alive and well. Hope to be competitive every 5 years. Pathetic.
MikeD26
Ketel marte for Groshans,kirk and Biggio, maybe another Lower level prospect and get a BP arm back from the Dbacks.
jensan
Groshans + Biggio + Lopez + Kloffenstien + Robberse for Ketel Marte
Foxxfire
kirk and pearson im staying away from trading unless the other team doesn’t try to buy low. That wouldn’t make them much of a GM though. I think kirk could triple his trade value in half a season but yeah, we have 4 catchers.
TalkSomeSense
I agree, Kirk could easily be forth much more at the Deadline. I think Biggio healthy and back at 2nd will bounce back as well. Likewise Pearson . So I would not be in a hurry to sell low on any of these 3.
smuzqwpdmx
I agree on Kirk, and I think Biggio can bounce back too. But if Pearson hasn’t been healthy in any of his first 6 professional seasons, it’s wishful thinking to pretend the 7th will be any different. Even Julian Merryweather has a better medical record.
Indianfan
Blue Jays: Hey, is Ramirez possibly available? Guardians: Are you kidding? Some conversation. Quit making things up.
uvmfiji
Where are they getting the money. Are they making the city pay for the new stadium
BeenThereDoneIt
What new stadium?
BuJoBi
Roger’s owns the Jays and the stadium. They have money. The entire city pays for the team through our cable subscription