Orioles left-hander John Means left tonight’s start against the Brewers after four innings, with the team announcing he’d experienced some forearm tightness. That’s always an ominous-sounding development, given how often forearm tightness can be a precursor to serious elbow issues, yet neither Means nor O’s manager Brandon Hyde sounded overly concerned.
Hyde called the early exit “precautionary” when speaking with reporters after the game (via Dan Connolly of the Athletic). The southpaw began feeling tightness in the third inning, according to the skipper, before raising the attention of the trainers after the fourth. Means said it was the second consecutive start in which he’d had some discomfort (via Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com) but indicated he wasn’t particularly worried and hoped to resume throwing within a few days.
The team will know more about the issue after receiving the MRI results, although it’s a bit of a relief to hear both Means and Hyde express optimism in the immediate aftermath. Means missed more than six weeks last season after straining his shoulder. At the time he landed on the shelf, he owned a 2.28 ERA/4.20 FIP; after returning in July, he pitched to a 4.88 ERA/5.01 FIP.
It’s too simplistic to attribute Means’ second-half struggles solely to the shoulder issue, but it seemed as if the injury were having some amount of deleterious effect. Obviously, it’s not clear his current forearm discomfort is tied at all to his prior shoulder issues, but it’s at least moderately alarming to hear of Means again dealing with arm troubles.
If healthy, the 28-year-old (29 later this month) could be one of the top arms available on the midseason trade market. Means is controllable through 2024 via arbitration, but the O’s are still firmly amidst a rebuild and reportedly floated him in discussions with other clubs over the winter.
His 2022 salary is still yet to be determined, as he and the Orioles are likely headed to an arbitration hearing after he filed for $3.1MM versus the team’s offer of $2.7MM. The MRI results won’t have any bearing on that hearing, which will be a backwards-looking process based on his pre-2022 body of work.
Oh the Orioles making a top story again on MLB TR
For all the wrong reasons, but at least they are #1
Fever Pitch Guy
That’s kinda been the case for the past 24 years, no?
Albert Belle, Brady Anderson, Tejada, Palmeiro, Machado
An All-Star Team of infamous players.
Next year Carlos Correa
Good night nurse! Does this mean what I think it Means? I mean come on, the orioles don’t have the means to replace Means. Ahahahaha!
Come on Clip, I’m just playing
What I mean is I didn’t mean any harm. Ahahaha
John Means no hitter
What no I think he meens he got injured did u read the article Or jus posting to get likes or sumthing dude still doesn’t have a contract cuz it is arbitration and have not decide jus sayin
Dumpster Divin Theo
Uh O’s. Spaghetti Oh’s.
Hopefully, it’s not as serious as forearm tightness can indicate. I was looking forward to seeing how Camden’s new dimensions played out for Means season. Maybe it’s still in the cards.
Os should have traded him for more prospects before he got hurt.
Crushing to the O’s if he has serious issue and would need surgery as that removes a hugh trade item for the O’s pushing any real hope for dealing him to 2024. Hope he is ok and can resume in a couple of weeks.
Oh oh. I know what that Means for John.
John Means, meet Tommy John.
The lockout and the shorter spring training could set back the careers of dozens of pitchers who otherwise would have been healthy. Nice work, Manfred.
It takes two. The MLBPA are just as much to blame.
Players could have ramped up their training on their own at any time.
Hello tommy John my old friend.
I’ve come to talk with you again.
Surgical knife comes creeping in,
Ligament attached to you again
Will my spin rate, in these 2 years that I train,
Or will their bats, do violence.
Against the fence I throw alone.
Cursing out my elbow bone.
I am on the 60-Day IL,
My starts are taken by Jordan Lyles,
Or perhaps, they will trot out Cionel,
Just as well.
Since from the stands, comes silence.
Dang, well done
Always precautionary until it’s cautionary, until it’s surgery… “Nothing to see her folks, everything is fine.”
As my realtor once said, “Everything’s fine until it isn’t fine.”
Well there go our playoff chances
Ya but your chance for the #1 in 2023 just went up exponentially. Might as well trade Cedrick et al and “start” a rebuild.
Without means could be 110 losses instead of 105
Only 156 more games!!!
Shame on the Orioles for not bolstering the worst pitching staff in the league over the winter. There was no reason that Lyles should be the only acquisition, basically to replace Harvey. Oh and now they have Harvey on a minor league deal. Joy.
Anyone with half a brain knows that every team has pitching injuries, and the Orioles were relying too heavily on everything lining up perfectly to make it through the season. There was always going to be injuries, and ineffectiveness from the younger players, so now we get retreads like Harvey and AAAA types like Watkins.
Here they are again, two pitchers hurt, rolling out non-MLB caliber players, and doing so on one of the lowest payrolls in the league. This could have been a year to see some improvement in the record and they could have done so without breaking the bank, without setting back the rebuild, and while still having PLENTY of innings available for trying out the youngsters.
But nope. Another year of historically dreadful pitching looms, with 5000 fans in the stands each night. The teams front office doesn’t care, so why should the fans.
Sophie – exactly. They insist on “growing the arms” and not doing much with starting pitching, but they need only look into their own past to see why they should.
From 1991 to 1992 the Orioles improved from 67 to 95 wins. Same manager, basically same offense. The offense did improve slightly, up 4 OPS+. Relief pitching, which was decent in 1991 was even better in 1992. But 80-90% of the improvement was due to the starters. From 5 below average guys taking most of the starts in 1991, they had:
1. Mike Mussina, who came up late in 1991, was a stud #1 in 1992. 32 starts, 241 IP.
2. Ben McDonald was subpar in 1991 and nearly league average in 1992 and pitched 227 innings.
3. They got Rick Sutcliffe, who added 237 innings of 89 ERA+
4. The other guys in aggregate improved slightly but really they only had 3 guaranteed starters and a rotation of 4 and 5 starters.
The Orioles think everyone they bring up is going to do what Mussina did when in reality they haven’t had ANYONE do since Mussina. Occasionally you would expect someone like an Erik Bedard. But the Orioles haven’t shown it from their minors nor will they go out and get someone who will (I’m not talking about Jordan Lyles and his 6 ERA). Anything the bullpen can do to help alleviate bad starting pitching is squashed when they are tasked with 4 and 5 innings every night because the starters never get past the 5th.
John Means is the ONLY starter they have right now another team would put into their rotation, and by the end of July he might BE on another team. Which leaves the Orioles with a hot mess and 100 losses again.
C Yards Jeff
Peter A was not the owner in 91 & 92. And he has not been in control for a couple of years now. First evidence of this? Brady Anderson out as a team executive. Most recent example of this. I can think of 2. Left field fence alteration and Jordan Lyles signing. No way these two transactions happen if he is in control. His sons, unlike their dad, are hands off concerning the day to day management of the team. Outside of the ugly salary cap imposed by them and their consultants, they are letting the baseball people in the organization make the baseball decisions. Finally! Do I like everything Elias and company do? Nope, but at least the sons are keeping their distance. Whether the Angelos family sells or plans to stay, a healthy management model is being established. And in fairness to Elias, what a lousy time for a team rebuild with covid and ownership/union squabbles delaying activity. In my humble opinion, at least a year lost to what looks like a 5 year plan. Yes? No? Let’s go Os!
Jeff – but if Peter A has not been in control for a couple years now, where are the significant veteran signings, especially SP? No team builds completely from within, even TB. Like I said, a 67 win team in 1991 still went out and got Rick Sutcliffe (a year after the disastrous Glenn Davis trade, which was to make up for the nearly as disastrous Eddie Murray trade – the combo of which likely prevented playoff berths in 1989 and 1992). This team is still not selling anything that’s not tied down. With this story on Means the team reaction is not “oh no, he’s our best pitcher, we need him to perform” its “I hope he’s not hurt, we have to trade him in July”. There is no rebuild, that’s all spin. It is a bare-bones, trade all assets and keep things as cheap as possible. Its now 2022, I don’t see that changing this year or next.
Ed "The Mythical One"
It is like I am Nostradamus or something.
What have I said about this team? They aren’t really rebuilding. The “foundation pieces” of Mountcastle, Mullins, Hayes, Santander, Means, and the other young arms are either one year wonders at best so far with NO track record of MLB success, never weres like Mountcastle, or have injury concerns like Santander and Means.
People say that Peter Angelos is no longer in control. That’s true. The last move he personally made was Chris Davis. The last moves he approved were Cashner and Cobb. His sons are now in charge, and they are most definitely sticking their nose in. They have a track record of doing this.
Saw one dude say, “Lyles signing would never happen under Angelos.” Are you kidding? Of course he would. They paid bargain basement price for “established” major league starting pitching. And it was the ONLY major league deal they signed for starting pitching. Oh, and they “only” put on a super restrictive spending budget. That’s all. Elias is just a pencil pusher at this point. He has no control at all other than perhaps the draft.
This is a tanking team being masked as a “rebuilding” team. They aren’t building for anything right now until the unfortunate passing of Peter Angelos and a team sale. I don’t know how people can’t see this or refuse to believe what is staring right in their face and slapping them while they do so.
If you seriously think that the Orioles “aren’t building anything right now,” you need to take a look at some recent news. #1 farm system, two consensus top 10 prospects, and tons of depth in the system. Improvement doesn’t happen overnight. They are building something, open your eyes
AdleyMVP – I’ll break out my quote again of give me a dollar in one hand and 100 prospects in the other, I’ll take the dollar. We’ve heard the prospect thing before. The last bona-fide SP who is home grown and succeeded for the Orioles was Mike Mussina.
But at the MLB level, let’s go backwards and find on-the-cheap, warm body type, dumpster dive/reclamation project SP’s at the MLB level: Alex Cobb, Tommy Milone, Andrew Cashner, Bud Norris, Wei-Yin Chen (he was good, but this was a deliberate on the cheap strategy because Japanese talent was much cheaper back then), Tommy Hunter, Kevin Millwood, Steve Trachsel (2x!), Bruce Chen, Anna Benson-I mean, Kris Benson, Pat Hentgen, Rick Helling, Omar Daal, Pat Rapp, Doug Drabek.
Meanwhile, the spin was WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THESE PROSPECTS IN THE MAJORS!: Brian Matusz (my Exhibit A), Adam Loewen, Sidney Ponson, Daniel “the Orioles don’t need Randy Johnson because they have his Dominican prototype in their own system” Cabrera, Radhames Liz, Garrett Olson.
Probably missing several in both lists. Nothing personal against Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall, but I will need to see success at the MLB level before I believe something has changed since the late 90s.
Ed "The Mythical One"
I have been paying attention and I seriously more than think, I know they aren’t building anything. How many more decades am I supposed to wait? I don’t care what some people think about their farm system. The farm has produced nothing substantial since the 90’s.
The same hype train over the flying Rutschman were saying even more about Matt Wieters. Wieters was a solid MLB catcher, but hardly what he was supposed to be.
We have a track record of getting these amazing arms that all they can do is throw fastballs and then blow out their arms.
“tons of depth in the system”
Except for where it mattes, the MLB level.
They are NOT building right now. They are just going through the motions until the ownership situation becomes more clear. Until then, they are keeping the payroll to a bare minimum. Does an anvil have to fall down from the sky or something? What more do you need other than to see what this organization has been doing for years now?