The Cardinals have won their arbitration hearing with outfielder Tyler O’Neill, reports Mark Feinsand of MLB.com (on Twitter). He’ll take home a $3.4MM salary in 2022; O’Neill had filed at $4.15MM.
This was O’Neill’s first of three trips trough the arbitration process. He’s on track to reach free agency after the 2024 campaign. Future arbitration salaries are based on the platforms established in previous years, so the slugger will be working from a lower baseline than if he’d won the hearing. The Cards and his representatives at the Boras Corporation had been discussing a potential long-term deal that could’ve avoided the process entirely, but the sides obviously didn’t come to an agreement. With the hearing now in the rearview mirror, it seems talks about a multi-year pact will be put on hold — at least until next offseason.
O’Neill told Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch last week the process was “definitely something that I am ready to have completed” but denied that its lingering into the season was having any effect on his performance. The 26-year-old is off to a rough start, hitting .198/.267/.317 with just a pair of home runs in his first 116 plate appearances.
Arbitration hearings are typically conducted over the offseason, but the unresolved cases were pushed into the season after the lockout halted winter dealings for more than three months. Arbitrators’ decisions are to be based solely off a player’s body of work up through 2021, so O’Neill’s slow start should not have been a factor in the result.
“DEFEAT!”
I found that an odd word choice
Today the Cardinals defeated themselves by beating their own player at his own game
Pay the man!
No.
I’m glad they didn’t sign O’Neal to a long term contract!! Reason being— It Seems as though O’Neal is on a duplicate path as Paul DeJong. O’Neal is extremely talented!! Especially in the field. But he’s always struck out too much!!
2022 was a great season for O’Neal.
2023 has been a disaster for him!!! Even by just standing in the batters box—- he looks completely lost as compared to his batting stance he had success with last season.
30 something HR’s 80 rbi & hit 286 last year and they can’t pay the guy a little over 4 million.
It’s not about now. The pay increases exponentially through the 3 levels of arbitration, the savings now dramatically impact year 3 costs.
I’m not saying the system is a good one, but there is a reason teams risk pissing off players to save a small amount of money now.
THANK YOU!
This is what I was saying in the Bryan Reynolds threads when everyone else was saying that the Pirates are too cheap to pay a couple extra hundred grand now (not to say that the Pirates aren’t cheap, but this is just how the arb game works)
People don’t understand the long-term implications of these deals and it’s easier to jump on the meme of the day wagon
The economics of the game requre teams to do just what the Cardinals have done here. Though a extension contract was probably offered to him to pay for his arbitration years, his agent Boras would not go with it. The Cardinals have a reputation to not change the initial offer unless an extension is tied to the contract. If players were paid based on last year’s results, players like Tyler would be paid more. However many other players are currently being overpaid respectively. I see Tyler moving on someday when Boras works his magic .
“Boras would not go for it”
Boras works for his clients. He advises them, but the final decision is theirs.
What magic does Boras work? When has he ever gotten a client demonstrably more than what they were expected to get anyway?
Cosmo2, being on the outside, we’ll never really know.
True, but if players were getting considerably more than expected with Boras we’d notice that.
Um, A-Rod, twice!
We have noticed that, which is why Boras is the most (in)famous agent in the game.
Why have fans here still not figured out how the arb system works. The vein diagram of every ignorant fan here who doesn’t understand the arb system and people who run themselves over in their own car is a perfect circle.
No wonder he has been in a hitting slump, can’t blame him for having no motivation at all. Slump started about a week ago, right around when the hearing probably started.
Slump started when 2022 started. I think the adult baseball players ego is just fine. Don’t think he’s throwing a tantrum and attempting to flush aways future hundreds of millions to let the cards know he’s sad.
If your not motivated to play this game making 3.4 mil and with future earnings looking bright. I would not want them on my team.
Dendee that might have been the dumbest post of the day. That’s like getting paid on a Friday and not showing up to work on Monday because you’ve already got paid.
Some players do that, but it’s not because there not trying
winning and losing arbitration hearing should be called something else. defeat is a terrible option. there’s no winning or losing. it’s an arbitrated outcome
100,000 grand per homer last year? Seems like a nice even place to set the bar…
Seems extremely low when you put it that way
It’s the only option
“Cards prevail…”
“Cards come out on top…”
“Arb ruling favors…”
Cards DOMINATE!
Cards DESTROY!
Cards STEAMROLL!
Just a few alternate options….
“Cards embarrass Tyler O’Neill in front of attorney and later family after reading about defeat”
Hey Anthony Franco. Read the room. Looks like the MLBTR mob have slayed you in public!
Is Anthony Franco like the Nikki Avalon of baseball?
Does that mean the Cardinals get an extra point the W column for the season?
Should have traded him while his value was high. He’ll never repeat last season.
Which year in the future are you from?
.366 BABIP, 32% K, 7% BB, 32% swing out of zone. Doesn’t exactly scream long term consistency. Looks way more like Hunter Renfro, not a consistent every day middle of the order bat. His ISO, BABIP, hart hit % are all back this season to where they were previously in his career. I’d be willing to say 2021 is going to be an outlier season and he may have hot streaks, but he’s not a consistently reliable bat.
2nd fastest sprint speed to first and a two year GG. Slugging is only part of his game!
Do they measure sprint speed from the batters box to the dugout after strike outs?
Where are you getting your stats from, cards667?
Statcast puts his K% at 29.3% and his BB% at 9.5%.
Oneill’s stats last year were a result of a torrid second half. Oneill and several other Cardinals started hitting at rates well above their career numbers after a blow up between Mike Shildt and Jeff Albert. I don’t know who won the fight, but Shildt got fired and the lineup has regressed to previous results. I’m not saying Jeff Albert is the whole problem. I’M LOUDLY SAYING JEFF ALBERT IS MOST OF THE PROBLEM.
JimmyForum: Dude, thank you for that. I needed the laugh…lol.
This season. That was last seasons numbers. His K% and BB% are slightly better thus year. But BABIP, ISO, hard hit % are all worse and back in line with his inconsistent and struggling first 3 years.
Cards667: What you write makes complete sense. It’s the difference between those who believe players should be paid for what they’ve done historically v what their overall value is. He had one good year, and you’re right.
While I don’t agree with every decision the Cardinals FO makes, over the long haul it’s hard to argue with the results. It seems apparent that you are correct on Albert but how have the results not resulted in enlightenment? I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of their meetings to understand.
Mo can’t be wrong. EVER. He has personal pride invested in Albert and that’s what matters. After everything that happened with Shildt, Mo would probably lose his job before he fires Albert and let’s Shildt say “I told you so.”
The reason O’Neill’s BABIP is so high and makes up for his mediocre plate discipline is because he hits the cover off the ball whenever he does make contact.
It may never be quite that high again, but his elite contact quality is a repeatable skill that he’s shown throughout his career, and last year he was able to improve his plate discipline from dreadful to merely mediocre (another repeatable skill) to combine with his contact and power skills to fuel his breakout.
Agreed. Very well said.
In the year 2000. In the year 2000.
sure, and I suppose you were saying the same thing about DeJong a few years ago. Oops…
Yepez is in LF today. O’Neill will be joining DeJong in AAA soon. I was never a huge believer in DeJong, didn’t agree when they gave him the extension they did, but I didn’t think he’d be as bad as he’s been at the plate, and he’s better defensively at SS than I ever thought he’d be.
If you can’t defeat the Orioles, defeat your own players.
The New Cardinal Way.
Ironically, I have predicted a Cardinals/Orioles World Series in 2031.
Orioles are actually semi legit. By semi legit I mean a .500 team would be a miracle, but they have some batters who are establishing themselves and a few new pitchers that have been good somehow.
They deserve to succeed. As a baseball fan, I’m rooting for them. They would be .500 if they played in a different division for sure.. They should move to the NL Central. They’d have a dynasty.
What was his projected salary?
YES! Flawless victory!
I would like to be defeated for $3.4 million.
I’ll defeat you for less than that if you want.
How much are legal fees for this type of stuff?
O’Neill has a career year and LOSES in arbitration. Nutz.
No, he just won less of a raise than he’d hoped for.
Seems awkward declaring DEFEAT!
But it gets me to click on the article a whole lot faster – brilliant!
The difference of $750K (essentially the league minimum) is what the team went to arbitration with the player over.. Thinking O’Neill might remember that going forward.
That’s a huge gap in your first arb filing. That’s millions of dollars down the line based on raises.
He may want to think about getting over the mendoza and hitting a couple jimmy jacks than 750K he lost out on.
So are players going through arbitration in the middle of the season playing on a league minimum salary until the contract is settled and then they get back pay once it is? That seems the obvious answer but I don’t remember if it was specified anywhere
They are getting the team’s proposal and getting back pay if they win their hearing.
Dang, the argument Cardinals presented that a top-8 MVP candidate Gold Glover didn’t deserve just over $4 million must’ve been a pretty good one! Whether or not he repeats is one thing, but the dude put up excellent numbers and wasn’t unreasonable with his demands.
They stood in front of the arbitrator and said “don’t worry our hitting coach could turn Ted Williams into late career Matt Carpenter. We have tons of proof.” The arbitrator couldn’t disagree.
These fools are making crazy money saving 1 million on him may make him bitter and play worse
Fact they couldn’t come to a midpoint agreement and avoid arbitration, doesn’t bode well regarding relationship here.
Almost always hard feelings after an arb loss.
Didn’t O’Neil hit something like 30HR and win a hood
Glove last year? That’s not worth 4.15 mil or whatever he asked for?