Joe Maddon is out in Anaheim, as the Angels announced Tuesday afternoon he’d been relieved of his managerial duties. Third base coach Phil Nevin will take over on an interim basis. Maddon had been in the final guaranteed season of his contract, and Bob Nightengale of USA Today writes the club will owe him a $1MM buyout on a 2023 option.
Shortly after the news broke, Maddon spoke with Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. He expressed “a lot” of surprise with the decision, conceding that the team’s recent play had been disappointing but opining there “wasn’t an issue of camaraderie or lack of leadership.” Asked point blank whether he wanted to continue managing, the 68-year-old replied “Of course I want to manage. I’m really good at it.”
The change comes as the Halos are mired in a disastrous stretch. Los Angeles is currently amidst a 12-game losing streak, one that has seen the club fall two games under .500. The Angels had started the season as one of the hottest teams in the major leagues, but their dreadful past couple of weeks has dropped them eight and a half games behind the Astros in the American League West. They enter play Tuesday tied with the White Sox for the AL’s eighth-best record overall.
A midseason dismissal is certainly not the result the Halos envisioned when they first hired Maddon during the 2019-20 offseason. Los Angeles signed him to a three-year, $12MM guarantee within days of the veteran manager’s departure from the Cubs. The Angels ousted former skipper Brad Ausmus after just one season, bringing Maddon aboard in hopes he’d be able to replicate the success he’d experienced in his previous stops.
That hiring was overseen by former general manager Billy Eppler, with owner Arte Moreno reportedly playing a significant role in the search process. The Angels dismissed Eppler just one year later, hiring Perry Minasian to oversee baseball operations. How notable it is that Minasian wasn’t involved in Maddon’s hiring isn’t clear, but the organization declined to discuss an extension last winter even as Maddon entered the final guaranteed year of his deal.
Maddon has been an MLB manager for 17 straight seasons, with his first permanent position coming at the helm of the 2006 Devil Rays. Tampa Bay scuffled through a pair of last-place finishes to start his tenure, but they reeled off six straight winning seasons between 2008-13. The Rays won the AL pennant in 2008, a season in which Maddon claimed the first of three Manager of the Year nods. After the 2014 season, Maddon and the Rays went their separate ways, and he took over an ascending team on the north side of Chicago.
Over five seasons with the Cubs, Maddon oversaw four playoff appearances. The highlight was a 103-win 2016 campaign that culminated in the franchise’s curse-snapping World Series title. While the team never reached the dynastic heights some had expected, they were consistently effective. Chicago played above .500 ball in all five of Maddon’s years at the helm, a stretch that coincided with four losing seasons for the Angels.
The Angels hoped he’d continue those winning ways in Southern California, but the team hasn’t managed to break through. Despite the presence of Mike Trout, Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon and breakout position players like Jared Walsh and Taylor Ward, the Angels lost more games than they won with Maddon at the helm. Los Angeles went just 26-34 during the shortened 2020 season, then slumped to a 77-85 finish last year. While their strong April made it seem as if 2022 might be their long-awaited breakout, the past two weeks have instead brought Maddon’s tenure in Orange County to an unceremonious end.
One can’t simply attribute the entirety of any team’s underperformance to the manager, and Maddon’s Angels are no exception. The club was dealt a massive blow last season when Trout suffered a May calf strain that ultimately proved to be season-ending. They’ve had a top-heavy roster throughout Maddon’s tenure, with the back of the rotation and bottom of the order often struggling to such an extent that MVP-caliber play from Trout and Ohtani (and Ward thus far in 2022) hasn’t been enough to get the team back to the postseason.
To some extent, the Angels have addressed the rotation woes that have been one of the organization’s recent downfalls. Los Angeles ranks 12th in rotation ERA (3.77) despite an underwhelming 20.8% strikeout rate. That’s solid enough run prevention from the starting staff, but the Halo bullpen is tied for the MLB lead with 12 blown saves.
The lineup has been effective overall, but the Angels’ somewhat curious decision not to address the middle infield this past winter has proven problematic. Tyler Wade and Andrew Velazquez have offered next to nothing offensively, and they’ve been forced into larger than expected roles by a pair of David Fletcher injured list stints. Ward and Rendon are also on the IL, and the club’s depth options haven’t performed of late. Over the past two weeks, the team is hitting a woeful .228/.287/.334.
All that said, the season certainly isn’t lost for the Halos. Their strong early work served both to illustrate the roster’s capacity for better play — particularly with Ward and Rendon healthy — and bought them enough room in the standings that they’re still right in the thick of the Wild Card race. The Angels sit just a game and a half out of the final playoff spot, and there’s still plenty of time for the club to make a push if they can break out of their current swoon.
It’ll be Nevin who’s tasked with leading those efforts. The 51-year-old just joined the organization this past offseason, signing on as third base coach. That came on the heels of a four-year run serving as third base coach in the Bronx under Aaron Boone. After the Yankees declined to renew Nevin’s contract last winter, he made the jump to Anaheim and will now get his first shot in a major league manager’s chair.
Nevin is a household name in spite of his lack of managerial experience, as he spent more than a decade as a player in the major leagues. The first overall pick in the 1992 amateur draft, he suited up with seven teams over parts of 12 big league seasons between 1995-2006. Nevin earned an All-Star nod during a 2001 campaign with the Padres in which he hit 41 home runs, and he twice earned down-ballot MVP support during his time in San Diego. All told, he collected more than 1100 hits and 200 longballs during his MLB run.
Since hanging up his spikes, Nevin has bounced between a handful of organizations during a lengthy run as a coach and minor league skipper. He managed in the Tigers’ and Diamondbacks’ farm systems for a few seasons, reaching as high as Triple-A in that role. Heading into the 2017 season, Nevin made the jump to MLB coaching as Giants’ third base coach before his stints with the Yankees and Angels. He’s drawn consideration for various managerial posts in years past — most recently interviewing with the Tigers during the 2020-21 offseason for the position that ultimately went to A.J. Hinch — but his first position will come an interim basis.
Whether Nevin is in consideration for a permanent position presumably depends on how the team fares over the coming months. The Angels join the Phillies — who replaced Joe Girardi with Rob Thomson last week — as teams going with interim skippers for the 2022 campaign.
Buster Olney of ESPN reported shortly before the team announcement that a managerial change was under consideration.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Yikes!
Wow, two managers fired in less than a week.
Two big name managers in pretty big markets to boot.
And yet for some reason David Bell is still managing in the league.
Amen to that
Not sure Bell should catch the blame for the Reds woes.
It’s hard to win games when your team is mostly triple A players. Blame the GM
Talk to the owner, it’s not all Bell’s fault.
You’re right. He should have been fired LONG before their woes of this season.
So is Mathenaloser in KC
That’s on ownership…
The reds really need to sell the team
Trout
Rendon
Ohtani
Thor
Ward
Stassi
Iglesias
Marsh
Walsh
Where are the AAA players? What team are you watching, because its not the Angels.
He’s talking about the Reds.
If those are your top 9 best players that’s a serious problem. Rendon is a bust of a signing. They’re lucky they have two of the best 5 players in baseball. But other than that, they really don’t have much at all going for them.
Not quite a bust, yet, but it will be. Rendon’s given the Angels 3.5 rWAR per 650 PA.
Owing him $155m for 2023-26, though? That’s going to be Pujols level of ugly for the last two years.
But wait, isn’t Krall supposedly a fantasy league genius?
Love the Lyman Bostck handle… Respect..RIP
Iglesias is on Colorado
… and also Tony La Russa.
I’m not sure everyone gets just how awful he is now.
Everyone hates their manager
That hilarious @Lyingman The Angels have a top 5 starting pitching staff in the AL https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31, their bullpen is middle of the pack, they have the best player in baseball in Trout, and 6 regulars on offense with a 110 or higher wRC+ and above average in OPS and OPS+. Only 6 teams in baseball can say that about their offense. Maybe actually watch the team play so you know what you are talking about.
Can’t easily fire 25 players per team.
Because ownership never fires itself.
Scapegoats for bad front office signings and poor roster construction. This is a big mistake and so was Girardi
Werent they swept by the Phillies?
Not a bad way to start your interim-manager tenure!
They got the “Joe’s” next they’re coming for the “Dave’s”, are you listening Martinez, Bell & Ross? Ahahahaha!
Ha ha. Hadn’t considered that, but yeah but firings were Joe’s.
And in further irony, the team that fired Joe Girardi swept the club managed by Joe Maddon which helped lead to his firing.
Say it ain’t so Joe, Joe
Its probably Dipoto’s fault.
Womp
Wow
When did he start pitching and hitting. Unreal.
You fire a manager to spark player performance. No one is fully blaming Madden for this losing streak, but something needs to be done to increase performance. A manager can’t allow his team to lose 10+ in a row. The Angels are a playoff contender. I think this was the right move to right the ship before it gets too bad.
Are they a contender? Or were they just hot to start the season and now they’re in a cold stretch? I would say they’re likely a fringe contender that will win 82 to 87 games, so they’re neither as bad as they are now, nor as good as they were to start the season.
Everything went wrong at once. They have some competent starting pitching for once and an upgraded bullpen – those guys will figure it out. 2 key guys are hurt (Rendon & Fletcher). That’ll fix defense and offense. When Ward is healthy he’s an All Star. I think they can beat the Stros, not sure about Yankees. I’d tend to agree about fringe contender, but they have talent to win 10 straight and will be buyers at or before deadline.
You’re not beating the Astros if you’re just a ‘fringe contender’. I can’t see them being better than HOU, NYY, TOR, TB or a fully healthy BOS & CHW.
@AshamedMethGoat That’s how it went. Overpeformed then underperformed. They’ve got two big bats and one well above average pitcher, currently. Is it Maddon’s fault Ohtani’s underperforming, or that Ward and Rendon are hurt?
Never were more than a .500 team, really. “Fringe contender” is extremely apt.
Fringe contender is exactly why you fire the manager. Hopefully you spark something. Get a few wins. Finish slightly above .500 for a playoff shot. Plenty of fringe contenders have WS rings.
You have to fire someone and Disney is not about to fire one of their own
Disney?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Germans?
Movie reference
Forget it, he’s rolling.
Forget it he’s rolling…
Yeah, that guy Goofy runs the show at Disney.
Every great organization has someone “Goofy” in charge.
@Von I agree with your assessment. There is a lot that has went wrong with the team. Ward and Rendon being out. Trout being in the longest slump of his career. The bullpen that they paid so much money for this off season has turned sour. The Angels need to do something and can’t stay in this funk. You can’t change the injuries or revamp an already revamped bullpen. The one thing you can do to shake things up is change the man at the top. I don’t know if Phill Nevin is the long term answer, but his fiery nature couldn’t be more of a contrast to Joe’s calm, easy going demeanor. This could be the change the Angels needed. With the talent on this team, there is no way this team should lose 12 in a row. Try and right the ship now and get back on track since the team is still in the running for a WC.
We have a pattern……
When a manager can work successfully with a strong / established analytic department and then switches to a weaker one, his moves are not so good.
Madden leaving the Rays for the Cubs hurt him some. Going to the Angels hurt his effectiveness a lot.
Kapler made his rep working with the Dodgers analytics department. A major reason he got the Phillies job. The kids running the Phillies operation had no clue about the analytics they were spewing out. Kepler was an awful manager. He was hired by the Giants with a great analytics department. Suddenly Kapler is smart.
AJ Hinch was smart in Houston. Not so much in Detroit……
Wow Samuel and I are finally on the same page!
DragBunt;
All teams have analytics departments and have for decades. Just like all businesses have computer departments. But the departments do things differently, and management uses them differently
Teams can win without a strong analytic department. The Braves did last year.
It appears Joe needs training wheels to ride the bicycle.
Note how Dusty Baker is suddenly making smart moves in Houston after having a screwball rep for handling pitchers and platooning in SF, Chicago, and DC.
An MLB Baseball Ops department needs compressive philosophies, strategies, and processes to succeed…..as any modern business does. Most MLB organizations don’t.
Madden leaving Tampa for Chicago HURT him some? They ended the biggest curse in sports on his watch. He could have lit himself on FIRE after 2016 and still called Chicago a success.
@Samuel Good points.
We’re now in an era where it’s less important for managers to get along with players than it is for them to get along with the analytics department, then pass that information to coaches whose job it is to find various ways to get through to various kinds of players.
I mostly agree with your assessments about the analytics department making a good manager great and a bad manager just merely good. IMO it also reflects on how strongly the dept forces the hands of the manager. Dusty looks great now because HOU analytics department pretty much runs the show behind the curtain. HOU shifts more than any team in baseball. As a lifelong Astros fan, I can tell you I hate the shift. I understand the reasons behind it but I have never liked it. As far as AJ Hinch goes, the Tigers don’t puch as much info to him as they did in HOU. He’s actually helping develop a ” stronger” dept to help the young guys understand the info being shared” is what I heard him say at the beginning of the year in spring training. That tells me that the dept isn’t as advanced as he is used to. AJ is a really good manager, Dusty is on a 1 yr deal chasing that elusive ring. I don’t think HOU resigns him after this year and Joe Espada takes over for the job he has been interviewed for from several different teams. He’s been under 2 really good managers with different styles and has a really strong analytic component to him that the players LOVE.
Samuel nailed it. Couldn’t have said it better if I tried.
Hinch wasn’t smart he just managed players who were cheaters! The Houston Cheaters.
I agree with Samuel. In fact, I believe the Cubs won IN SPITE of Maddon.
Braves have 21-24 people in their analytics department. That makes it one of the 6 largest in baseball.
The Angels have 6 people in their analytics department, 7 if you include the one guy that just watches video. They had 4 when Minasian took over. That makes it one of the smallest.
Teams with comprehensive philosophies, strategies, and processes succeed consistently. That goes for every winning MLB team. See Cardinals, Rays, Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, Milwaukee in recent years.
Angels were not a playoff contender. Sorry. The media is more into them and sees gold in players who are closer to bronze. They have Trout and Ohtani. They have some decent starting pitching. Bullpen isn’t so hot and their depth is questionable.
Too many pundits sign them on to the playoffs because of two players.
You forgot Rendon, Ward and Walsh. There starting rotation is pretty bad but better then it has been recently. But their bullpen is absolutely trash
Rendon is more name than anything at this point. Walsh isn’t that good. Ward, we’ll see if he keeps this up. Anyway, I don’t see the Angels as a very good team. Too top heavy.
You lost me at “a manager can’t allow his team to lose 10 in a row”, as if he’s slumping in a video game. They just won 7 of 8 a month ago.
A few big names doesn’t make them a great team.
I should clarify that I’m talking about a manager of a team with playoff expectations. The manager isn’t necessarily responsible for wins and losses of course, but things weren’t working. The Angels need a different voice in the clubhouse to stop the bleeding before it’s too late.
The only thing the Angels are a contender for is to finish .500 and miss the playoffs once again. It’s business as usual in Anaheim.
He would take starting pitchers out way to early, then burn the pen, and he went two weeks without pitching Iglesias then brings him in with the bases loaded. He was a terrible manage4. This streak was his fault.
The whole streak is his fault? I mean cmon.
I know it’s cool these days to blame the old white guy but geez.
I blame the old white guy and old black guy. If it ain’t working it needs fixed. Enough with trying to divide us!
No. But the Angels win a few of these games if he used his pitchers correctly.
A manager that swells his head so big he can’t fit in a locker room. Needs to go! He has always been an arrogant ass! Good ridence.
Madden has made a lot of questionable decisions. If any manager deserves to go, it’s him.
Smartest manager in Baseball… just ask him. A complete joke. When I heard about his 8675309 line up I knew his ego was out of control.
@ I speak the truth…….
Joe called Jenny?
Is he the reason the team isn’t making the playoffs or are they just not that good of a team? Seems to me they played over their heads for a month and this regression was inevitable. Maybe not as quickly as it has with the 12 straight losses, but this is a .500 team, not a team that could challenge Houston for the division.
I didn’t expect the Angels to keep up with their hot start but Syndergaard, Lorenzen, Loup, Tepera, Iglesias, Trout, and Ward all had Tremendous starts to the season. They are still very much a contender even if they don’t completely restore the amazing start
I think their tremendous start is the issue. You could throw Ohtani’s pitching early on in there as well. Bottom line, even Trout couldn’t keep up that pace let alone Taylor Ward. This team was never that good to begin with. A winning season was never a given as far as I was concerned. Not that it is a crappy team by any means. It’s just the preseason expectations by the fanbase was not real. I thought the same thing of the Mariners and the Red Sox. Time could still prove me wrong.
Let Lorenzen pinch hit some time. That dude rakes.
The Angels were on an unsustainable pace for 103 wins. I knew at some point that would end.
But this has been an absolutely brutal way for it to end.
“absolutely brutal”
I feel that. My gosh, I want us to win the division, but I really feel for you guys.
jjd002;
Don’t agree.
I liked them for a Wild Card coming out of Spring Training. They have the 2 most impactful players in MLB, and strengthened both the starters and the bullpen in the offseason.
Sticking Matt Duffy at 1B when he can’t play the position (and it cost them 2 games) was nuts. Moving players around each day when they are the sorts that need to play one position for a period of time and get a rhythm down, caused disorientation. Few players understood their role day to day. That’s on the manager.
The Angels are a very good team. They are missing Rendon, Ward, and Fletcher, and they”ve been without both catchers for significant time. But they have a .180 hitting shortstop, and Marsh is not yet an impact player. Their pitching is fine. On top of this Trout went into the worst slump of his career– there’s been no offense.
They are always missing rendon. He’s their new pujols contract
They are on average team with two stars, one player who is maybe having a breakout (need to see if he can keep it up) and Rendon. They are an average team, who played well for a month. Luckily for them, outside of Houston and New York, the AL is below average.
This team is absolutely good enough to make the playoffs. They were 10 games over .500; yes, they may not have been that good, but they were and still are definitely good enough to challenge for a wild card spot.
The problem with Maddon is that, as others have stated, he has ‘smartest man in the room’ syndrome. Constantly overthinking, over-managing, and making questionable decisions. Doing things sometimes just for the sake of doing them.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that Maddon never seemed to have any type of urgency or understanding that what was happening was not good enough. Maybe that’s a misperception, but that’s what I’ve seen. Scioscia had that same problem at the end. Losing streaks grow and grow, the record gets worse and worse, the gap grows wider and wider, and yet there’s no fire, no energy, no accountability. Just more positive vibe BS. The players obviously need someone to kick them in the a$$ every once in a while. I don’t think they’ve ever had that manager as long as I’ve been a fan.
Yep.
Welp that didn’t last long
Phillies on line one
Phillies current manager has the best win% in the MLB. They aren’t getting rid of him. (Yes. This is a joke, but also true.)
Ummmm, Dave Robert’s might disagree.
Dave Roberts got a win% over 1.000?
He’s referring to Rob Thomson.
He could disagree, but he’d be wrong. The Phillies manager has a perfect record of 3-0.
Of course they won’t get rid of him, that’s the Phillies thing to do
About time
We’ll see him in Philly soon
@yankeedave02- my thoughts exactly considering Maddon is from Philly.
he’s not
He’s from Hazleton which is in the Poconos. About an hour or less from Philly, depending on the traffic on the NE extension. Not far off saying he’s from Philly it’s definitely in the area.
Eh it’s about 2 hours but point remains. He’s ‘from the area’ more than he’s from any other MLB area… by a lot.
Would be cool to see him come to Philly and win a WS when he lost his first as a manager to them.
NYC is 2 hours from Philly as well.
Philly needs to get creative for once. Taking on other big market team’s sloppy seconds has gotten them nowhere.
You must have forgot about Gabe Kapler He was a sloppy virgin
Have fun with Maddon genius.
Wow…jump the gun a little….
I feel like this was the best time to do it if it was ever gonna get done. Some of the things he does is bonkers lol but honestly they are probably just covering for shohei having a bad start to the season.
What’s strange is when he did them in Tampa he was a genius. He just had better teams there.
jjd002;
Wrong.
He had teams that were built with players that could produce when they were moved around. The Angels are not constructed that way.
Agree with Samuel on this…plus I blamed him for a % of Bryant’s decline. Just because a guy “can” play multiple positions doesn’t mean he should. Bryant was productive until he became the second coming of Ben Zobrist.
Ohtani is responsible for 12 losses in a row?
About time. The worst handler of pitching staffs I’ve seen in five plus decades. Ask cub or tb fans.
Almost single handly lost the world Series for the Cubs in 2016.
@Dunk Dunkington- Aroldis Chapman’s favorite manager. Made him go 3 innings for a save like the old days. Knowing all along the Cubs weren’t going to be able to resign him. Lol!
I think they need there was zero chance of re-signing him.
Every once in a while I’ll see comments on other formats that.say gleyber for Chapman was a dumb trade and would rather have gleyber in the cubs lineup right now.
I sometimes don’t get fans sometimes. So many people wanted the cubs to sign baez rizzo and kb. It was ridiculous that they didn’t know how to let go. The only chance of them returning is a 1 year deal at the end of their career a farewell tour if you will.
He brought Chapman in on a NON-SAVE situation instead of resting him. That’s how he almost cost Cubs.
I was very excited when the Angels hired Maddon. I gave him a pass his first two years because he didn’t have much of a team. Then I saw him make horrible move after horrible move and then I checked my sources. Epstein and Friedman thought Maddon was a bad manager, Eppler wanted Buck S and Moreno hold Maddon in August he was going to hire him.
He’s not respected. And based on how he manages, he had to go.
Now let Perry run the team, and Moreno sign the checks. This is a good team.
H11F – fully agree with you
Friedman hand picked Maddon. He has said multiple times that he pushed for Maddon when ownership wanted an experienced manager. He kept him there for 9 years. You don’t do that if you dislike a manager. Friedman didn’t fire Maddon, Maddon exercised an opt-out clause in his contract. Friedman has never had one negative word to say about Maddon in public and has never been quoted as having said anything negative in private. So unless he is your personal friend and he told you that in confidence, then I call BS on that.
Epstein hand picked Maddon. He has said that Maddon was his only pick. After he left, Epstein said: “I love Joe. Nothing is going to get in the way of that.” He also said that ‘no one else could’ve done what Maddon did as Cubs manager and that Maddon would enjoy great success in his new job.’ Maddon was the most successful manager in the Cubs franchise history.
Eppler has never said who he wanted. There is simply no way you can know who he did or didn’t want. What we do know is that Eppler said “We are thrilled that Joe is coming back home and bringing an exciting brand of baseball to our fans. Every stop he has made throughout his managerial career he has built a culture that is focused on winning while also allowing his players to thrive. We believe Joe will be a great asset for our Club and look forward to him leading the team to another World Series Championship.” Doesn’t sound like he wasn’t his choice.
Maddon is one of the most respected managers in baseball. He has never been out of a job, not for a single season, and managers that are not respected don’t get new jobs.
The Angels are a good team. That was the only true thing you said. Not WS good, because once again Moreno blocked Minasian from signing pitchers to long term deals.
Dusty Baker would like a word
How so? He’s let the starters pitch and the relievers all have their roles. Iglesias melting down is not on Maddon. I don’t think this change means Maddon is bad, it means the team is not performing. They’re not performing due to injuries and lack of depth on the offensive side. It’s Maddon’s fault Trout went hitless for 22 at bats? Rendon is hurt again? Fletcher got injured? Adell isn’t ready? It’s his fault he’s been given a .180 hitting shortstop? That Ward keeps getting hurt?
He didn’t let starters pitch and Iglesias didn’t melt down. He didn’t pitch him in two weeks then brought him in to face Bryce Harper with the bases loaded in the 8th. That’s after taking out Sandoval after 4 and 2/3. A starter would a.low a Home Run in the 4th and Maddon would take him out of the game. Detmers didn’t allow a run and he was taken out in the 5th. He’s an idiot.
As a side note, he didn’t pitch Iglesias in 2 weeks because we never got to the point where we needed a closer in the last 2 weeks. That’s partly on Maddon.
Iglesias blew that pitch to Harper. It was right down the middle, instead of off the corner for a walk/grounder. Trout wasn’t hitting. Shohei wasn’t pitching to their best. I like Joe, but hope this move shakes things upright.
You get pitchers work. It’s hard, but you don’t sit him for two weeks then bring him in at that point in the game.
I know. It was tongue in cheek.
Thank God.
Games are not played in isolation. . He takes starters pitchers out way too early, doesn’t have set roles for his BP, and you don’t sit Iglesias for two weeks and put him in there. Whose fault is it that Iglesias didn’t pitch for two weeks?
Halo11Fan;
Wow. I did not realize that. Thanks.
It’s common practice for a manager to bring their closer into a game for an inning after maybe 3 days of inactivity. The buzzphrase is: “Just to get him some work”. Doesn’t matter if the team is winning or losing.
Joe straight up said Iglesias isn’t the type of guy who needs work just to get work earlier this season. That doesn’t look to be the case.
And I get it. A manager is in a tough spot. Let’s say Joe brings in Iglesias to pitch in a 7-1 loss just to get work then we need him three days in a row after that. He won’t be available one of those days because he pitched in a blowout.
Joe just fell out of the Loup
Hahahaha remember when he was with the rays and being touted as one of the greatest managers of all time lol now’s hes got a team with the best player in the league and one of the highest payrolls and can’t get it done lol
Well, in fairness, that has been the case with the Angels for 10 years now, and no manager has gotten it done.
Comparing payrolls that are decided by baseball ops and payrolls that are high because of medaling ownership are not really a fair comparison.
Angels have been dealing with a payroll that is weighed down by poor signings dictated by ownership since 2012.
Dumb take. The Halos are forever spending money on hitters, ignoring pitching and balance. Maddon got fired because does unorthodox things that most people don’t understand. Firing him changes nothing for the Angels.
ChiSoxCity;
Excuse me, yours is the dumb take.
The current GM HAS been spending money on pitching and balance.
Try to keep up.
Yes, but one year of Perry focusing on pitching isn’t going to undo a decade plus of Arte spending on bats and ignoring the farm.
This is the most balanced team we’ve had in a long time. But it still lacks depth due to massive contracts to guys like Rendon and Upton. Trout’s deal is huge but he’s actually worth it.
One year out of a decade+? You don’t have enough pitching, hence your team is not balanced enough to win. Why have you not figured this out yet?
It’s a different GM, dummy.
Excuse me, but he won with Tampa Bay and then won a championship with the Cubs who hadn’t won in 100 years. Not sure what more you want the man to do?
Friedman thought he was a terrible manager.
I never understood the love of Maddon. Never liked his management style & couldn’t understand the appeal to so many. He always did quirky things and made some strange, unappealing decisions, even in TB. The biggest difference, imo, is that TB had the roster to save Maddon from himself (endless BP arms, rotating positional personnel, young restocked talent).
Angels could benefit from a level-headed, experienced manager. Nevin has a lot of big-league experience, so he may actually be fine for awhile.
Who would you handpick as the next guy?
@yc me personally i think laa should try and get schlidt, he got a mediocre cards team to the playoffs. then again i still believe that we made a mistake firing him but now mo can be both pbo and manger.
Makes a lot of sense, Brodie. I had forgotten about Schildt when close soldering some possibilities for this role. I didn’t follow him closely, but he seemed to do a decent job overall. I know that’s somewhat of a debatable topic amongst the fanbase. I also know your fanbase is similar to ours in many ways (expectations, loyalty, multi-generational histories, winning culture, etc – all except the obnoxiousness… lol).
tbh mike only got fired because he wasn’t going to be mo’s yes man, i feel in today’s game mangers need to understand and use analytics but as a tool and they also be allowed to make the “gut” calls. in today’s game i feel that mangers are one way or another, and as fans we often forget that these guys are humans and not guys out of a vg like mlb the show
Well said, Brodie, I agree. I think one of the things Boone has done pretty well this year is balance out his analytics with more “gut-type” calls; he watches the performance and uses analytics *with the performance, which has yielded some good results (and I have not been a Boone fan in years past).
@yc it sounds to me that boone is growing as a manger, now this all conjecture on my part because i don’t watch a lot of nyy games (heck i barely have time to watch my own birds much less anyone else) but i think early on boone was afraid to make gutsy calls and go against the nyy fo. also the media and fan base can be pretty ruthless at times so he might of been hesitant to make calls against the numbers but now that he has some time and is no longer a rookie manger worrying that he’s going to get fired for a bad call he made i feel that now he’s more comfortable at that (or as any manger or hc can be in ny) he’s blending more gut with analytics for a more balanced approach
Wow.
Took them long enough… Maddon is one of the most overrated active manager in the game, at least for me
Sure, anyone could have broken the Cubs 100 year losing streak. He won everywhere he went– except in Anaheim. Maybe the problem is Anaheim and not Maddon. This franchise hasn’t had a .500 team in seven years, and doesn’t have a single player ranked among the top 100 MLB prospects. There are bigger issues than Maddon.
Cubs won despite Maddon not because of him.
That is really easy to say, but yours is a meaningless rant. He did win, and no one else they had prior for 100 years had won– and they haven’t won since. So, you don’t like the way he won? To say anyone else could have won makes no sense because they never did. It’s a loser argument (not saying you’re a loser), but it’s what losers say.
Yea the idea that a team wins it all in spite of the manager is ridiculous. They won 103 games and the WS. So if Madden wasn’t terrible they’d have won 120 games and a guaranteed sweep of the playoffs? It’s just a baseless claim trying to confuse the fact that he was VERY successful as a Cubs manager (and very good at it, the results speak for themselves).
Or he had a very, very talented team? Did you watch the games…I did. He wasn’t a good manager with the cubs, either.
He did have a very talented team. But the idea that he was overtly harmful to their success is a ridiculous take. They won 103 games, won it all. Doesn’t make him a genius, maybe most managers have similar success with that bunch, but winning “despite” him? Give me a break.
See ya in Philly Joe
I certainly hope not.
I don’t know. I think the Phils may keep it low key and go with a younger guy rather than bring in a “name”.
Someone like gabe kapler model perhaps
There was an interview with Sam Blum (the beat reporter) where he showed zero urgency or frustration. Id bet that did him in. He was acting like they lost 2 and not on the verge of the largest losing streak in franchise history with the two best players in franchise history.
I saw him interviewed and all he did was voice frustration, but he said he believed in the players and their talent. He said he is trying to take the pressure off the players who are pressing, trying too hard. What exactly would you like him to say? When the team was healthy they were winning. They have no depth on the offensive side. They have no position players in their minor league system ready to step in. No catchers, third basemen, first basemen, and all of their outfield prospects are years away. Their shortstop prospects are all light hitting. A few injuries and they’ve been exposed. Adell is back and he is not ready. Needs a year of development– and they know it. They have no one else to plug in.
He almost lost the Cubs the WS with his terrible decision making. He’s not a good manager idk why people think he is. Well deserved to be canned.
Whenever a manager wins a WS title, they’re immortalized forever, despite recent history. I don’t think that’s necessarily fair, but that’s why guys like Maddon and Girardi will always get jobs.
Maddon did a great job in Tampa keeping the weight off young players but he did a poor job with player development at the big league level.
I felt when he managed the Cubs, based on some of the Tampa track record also, he had a hard time managing ego… it was glaring how Bryant, rizzo, baez and some others seemed to completely ignore Maddon most of the time.
Aroldis Chapman got the Cubs to the WS, then single-handedly won it for them.
That makes zero sense.
Makes little cents
It makes sense if you watched the Cubs in the playoffs that year. They don’t get to the NLCS without him, let alone win the WS. WATCH BASEBALL. Why do you think he wanted out of there so bad. Maddon used him to death, but he had no choice. The their bullpen was absolute trash in the playoffs. The rotation stunk it up in the WS, too.
2016 WS – Chapman – 3.52 ERA Rest of bullpen – 4.96 ERA
(Grimm accounted for 4 of the 9 runs given up by the bullpen in 16 2/3 IP)
2016 NLCS – Chapman – 3.86 ERA. Rest of bullpen – 2.63 ERA
2016 NLDS – Chapman – 2.70 ERA Rest of bullpen – 3.21 ERA
(Grimm gave up 2 of the 5 runs given up by the bullpen in 14 IP)
Outside of Grimm. the rest of the Cubs bullpen was better than Chapman in the 2016 playoffs and WS. Only Grimm was trash.
Now you’re giving me era stats for relievers? F’n tool, do you even watch baseball?
Obviously you don’t. Say hello to my little friend Mute. I have no interest in even seeing the comments of people who call others tools. Insults are the opposite of being an adult.
He almost lost? But he won… right? And he won for a franchise that hadn’t won in more than 100 -years. And he won with Tampa Bay– right? And he won as bench coach for the Angels in 2002. That’s a lot of winning.
Much like players, managers should be judge on current performance, not the past. Baseball is a different game than it was even 5 years ago.
That’s fine and that’s fair, but for people to say he’s not a winner defies his long winning history and MLB lifetime rankings. The failures for the past two years have nothing to with Maddon and everything to do with personnel.
I agree mostly. Managers are hamstrung by their rosters and organization. Any one who thinks firing Maddon will magically fix things is wrong, but keep in mind, you can still fix 1 aspect of your team with a managerial change. You can’t fire the players. You can’t gut your organization. But you could light a fire under your team and give them a new voice. It’s not about blaming Maddon for everything. It’s about inspiring change.
Retire Fletch’s number and put him on the top step of the dugout. He can skip it better than anyone else
“Fletch”
“Fletch F. Fletch”
“I’m a shepherd”
Fletch for player/manager
They saw Bruce Cassidy just got fired in Boston and thought that was too good of a replacement to not be in on.
Maddon has been the most overrated manager in recent memory. He nearly (mis)managed the most talented team of the past 10 years out of a world series championship. And he wore down Ohtani admirably last season. Trout and the rest of the team, and especially the Anaheim fans deserve a better manager. Good riddance to Merlot Joe!
Uh, no. The Cubs would have, and probably should have been eliminated by SF during the playoffs in ‘16. Most of the Cubs’ pitching staff and bullpen was ineffective and unreliable (as they usually are by that time of year). Maddon rode Chapman to death because he was the only reliable arm left.
You are wrong. See my answer to that falsehood above.
Angels fans weigh in: Madden looked like he was growing increasingly frustrating with players and coaches in recent weeks. Pulling pitchers early, switching lineups around constantly, and taxing the bullpen. Anyone else agree?
Of course he was frustrated– aren’t you frustrated? He was changing lineups trying to find someone to get hot. Duffy produced and stayed in the lineup. He was switching struggling players around. They have no offensive depth– it’s a real issue.
So ever since Noah crapped on the Met’s for their fake no hitter, they go on a long losing streak, while having the best 2 players in baseball. Am I getting that right?
Fire the GMian first.
Why? He’s only been on the job for a year and a half. Is he responsible for the team not having a single prospect ranked in the top 100? He didn’t hire Maddon. He didn’t sign Rendon. He didn’t prematurely rush Adell to the majors. He did draft 20 pitchers last year that are doing exceedingly well.
I have never been a fan of Joe “I’m the smartest guy in the room” Maddon but it does seem like the roster is not constructed well at all. But at the end of the day when you have Trout and Ohtani you cant lose 12 in a row and expect to keep your job. This team has been wasting away Trouts prime for so many years its sad. They need to figure it out. Maybe Nevin can rally the troops and get something going.
Wow. What a horrible decision. Well, there goes the Angels season for sure now. Slumps come and go as do hot streaks. It’s a very long season and firing a manager because of a losing streak is the stupidest thing ever. Ok. Arte just needs to sell the team now. He is officially stupid.
there are losing streaks and then there are record or close to record losing streaks. it was time for a change. As a fan of another team, I look at the Angels and wonder why he was not replaced in the off-season.
The losing streak was the icing on the cake for Maddon. The Angels started 19-11 over their first 30 games and have gone 8-18 since. Maddon’s schtick plays on young teams and gets old quickly and it seems like that has Happened again
He’s the reason for this tailspin. He’d take out his starters at the first sign of trouble and used his relievers like they were strat-o-matic baseball cards. Not pitching Iglesias for two weeks, then having him come in with the bases loaded with Harper on deck was almost as dumb as the bases loaded intentional walk.
He did some of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen.
Spot on. Quick hooks and an overused pen are his strategy. I think he got bonuses for mound visits.
Iglesias never went more than 8 games between appearances. He was day to day with an injury after taking the loss on May 27th and didn’t appear again until June 5th against the Phillies when he melted down again. Why would you bring in anyone except your best reliever against Harper? That makes no sense at all.
Angels starters are 6th in the AL IP per start. They are also the 5th best starting pitching staff in the AL. If Maddon had an issue with his starting pitching it was leaving young starters in too long and then they gave up runs, not the opposite.
I am thinking that your reflection is ….
It’s not a horrible decision– they had to do something. But you’re right that Moreno should sell the franchise. There is a very good chance he moves this franchise to Long Beach– a very good chance.
F Joe Madden….NERD! See ya! I guess your quirky goofy “I’m smarter than everyone” routine ran its course. OVERRATED!
Why are dumb people always angry? Oh, wait…
You don’t seem angry to me.
There are no permanent genius managers in baseball. Sooner or later everyone loses.
Madden was easily the most overrated manager in the MLB. He makes consistently bad decisions, particularly with the bullpen usage. I am convinced that the Cubs won a World Series in spite of Joe Madden.
Players only meeting ring a bell?
Maddon panicked in the World Series… warmed Lester up too soon and was forced to pull Hendricks who was cruising.
Everyone before he even came into the game knew Chapman was going to cough it up (except Maddon). I don’t care how dominate a closer is, when you see him as often as the Indians saw Chapman, they were going to win that last battle. Just like the cubs did against the Indian pen.
Heavy forbid any CUBS manager should “panic in the WS”. Yet Theo’s a “genius” for doing nothing at all. Cubs fans…
Yep. All those wins that year, and the NLDS the year before and after? And turning around a Rays franchise that was awful?
Keep yapping on the boards, because you obv have no idea what you’re talking about.
Maddon has success, you…post on db’s.
@sideline
Absolutely agree with you. Complaining because he didn’t win “correctly” is a sad complaint. He won. Bottom line. Nothing else matters. Others lost. He won. He “almost” cost them the WS, is a round about way of saying he won. It didn’t work in Anaheim. That’s true too. It doesn’t take away from what he did in Chicago and TB.
I am curious, his name is literally in the TITLE of the article. How can you misspell it twice?
Ok spelling police you gonna write him a ticket or something?
John Madden was a great football head coach.
Joe Maddon was the most successful manager in the history of two different baseball franchises, the Cubs and Rays. Considering the fact that the Cubs had been around 141 years when he became their manager, that is a huge endorsement of his skills as a manager.
No team wins 103 games in spite of their manager. Neither did the Cubs.
Jordangee, you say “ Pulling pitchers early, switching lineups around constantly, and taxing the bullpen. ” been doing that his whole career. Is it no wonder Angels sign top relievers and they all under perform. It’s Joe. Historical fact
What top relievers did the Angels sign in the offseason?
Should probably go get Girardi
Perfect timing – just in time to beat the overachieving Mets.
Maddon was a nostalgia hiring for Arte trying to reclaim the Scioscia glory days, it didn’t work out.
Nevin is interesting and has interviewed for manager jobs so we’ll see how he does (for his sake hopefully he’s a better manager than 3rd Base coach). If not wonder if Giradi or (inevitably) Dave Martinez end up in Anaheim
No, Maddon has been a winner everywhere–except Anaheim. He turned around an awful Rays franchise, then led the Cubs to their first ws win in over a hundred years.
This is why you post on boards, rather than having a job in baseball. You don’t have a clue.
Next.
Rays continued to win without Maddon to be fair.
Easy buddy, that vain in your forehead is looking a little angry
Vein. But I agree with you.
Maddon signed the great young talent TB had? Maddon developed them in MiLB? What an asinine comment.
The Rays lost 91-106 games per season in their first 10 seasons in MLB. Maddon was there the last two seasons of that streak. Then they went on a streak of 6 straight seasons of 90 plus wins and 4 playoff appearances. A big part of the reason for that was Maddon.
Wow, Trout is 0 for May and June and they fire the manager
Who among us would have predicted that two managers would be fired by June 7? And who would have guessed them to be Girardi and Maddon?
I think we can all agree we thought David Bell and/or Mike Matheny would have been the first(s) to go but there in lies the difference in expectations. Phillies and Angels were expected to be contenders and haven’t, Reds and Royals weren’t expected to do anything and are performing to those expectations.
I know many here are hoping LaRussa is next out the door but i doubt Reinsdorf gets Tony out of retirement to fire him. LaRussa may not be renewed for next season but i don’t think he gets fired in-season
Cincy has been playing well since their 3-22 start.
As a Phillies fan, not at all surprised at Girardi. He’s a bad bullpen manager. The GM didn’t hire him. His contract is up next year. Combine that with a team that is terribly constructed with bad defense and a bad bullpen, and you have a firing that you could see a mile away.
Wow. Lets see.. Fires Brad Ausmus after one year to get Joe Maddon, who ends up getting fired basically two years later because of bad management? Nice work there Arte. You need to fire yourself.
Maddon only signed a 3 year contract. This was his final season
Yeah, Ive heard the rumor that he wasnt going to manage past this year, but if the team got into the playoffs, would that have changed things? Clearly that’s a moot point now
Ausmus was horrible in every way and he was horrible in Detroit. The GM didn’t fire Ausmus– Moreno did. Moreno wanted Maddon. And it was Eppler who was GM when they canned Ausmus. Perry inherited him.
So, I didn’t mention a GM. I mentioned Arte.
Angels fans everywhere agree with you about Arte.
One thing Arte does well , eat $s on bad contracts
I wonder if TLR is next on the chopping block? We seem to be in a stretch of axing the older experienced guys so why not.
My thoughts exactly about the white Sox manager. Despite the team’s disappointing start this season, I imagine last year’s regular season success bought him some time to right the ship. I think it helps also that unlike the Angels, Sox’s division has no Houston caliber teams to make them look even worse.
L12 streak, gassing the manager and further killing the clubhouse vibe might snap it. I wonder if ohtani still feels “connected” to the team LLLLLLOL
Phillies and Angels going to trade managers? Still hoping for Bobby V in Anaheim.
You are a madman. Valentine is fun in the booth, but he does some weird things in the locker room that always creates dramas.
This organization’s problems run much deeper than the manager.
Right, but that doesn’t mean you should just sit back and not try to fix the managerial issue. Firing a manager doesn’t address everything, but it can fix 1 problem.
Yes, deeper. Agreed. 7 years and counting since the Halos have had a winning season. I hear Mr Moreno is passionate about baseball. Is he too passionate?
Arte is passionate about money, not baseball.
I guess Arte felt there was a distinct lack of douchebaggery in the Manager’s office. Nevin should take care of that and be a good Moreno lackey
How much longer does this have to go on before Mike Trout finally requests a trade?
Who says they’d give it to him unless they want to unload that money? Also, how many teams can take on that contract and give up prospects for him?
Every team would take Trout’s contract. Every single one. Yes even the Rays.
Lol trash organization. Back to irrelevance.
The guy had them doing quite well earlier–a couple bad weeks and he’s out? What a joke. All those players and you still won’t make a postseason.
12 straight losses.
Wow. I really wanted the Angels to win under Maddon but this ridiculous 12 game losing streak made it harder to continue justifying his crazy lineups and constant mishandling of pitchers. Unfortunately, I think this was the right decision in order to salvage the season. The players had quit under Maddon – that was apparent.
Nevin is the opposite of Maddon. He’ll bring fire, grit and passion and hopefully have an old school approach with handling starting pitchers—they need to get back to a five-man rotation for starters. Nevin might experience a little early success. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Angels explode and immediately turn things around.
The manager is the fall guy every time, it’s not the fault of ownership, the GM who built a bad team, the players who underperform, nope… it’s the guy who never swings a bat, throws a pitch, fields a ball… he’s the reason why they lost 12 in a row, uh huh, it was all his fault, because teams never lose 12 straight unless the manager stinks, uh huh. Yep, the guy just forgot everything he knows about baseball suddenly. Or maybe they claim he lost his voice in the clubhouse, whatever that is supposed to mean. And now, the organization will go through a period of internal chaos as a result of this. New coaches will be brought in next season, each with some new idea of how they’re going to get a player to hit, pitch or field better… it’s an endless loop. And once any team gets the perfect combination of talent on the field, then it won’t matter who the manager is, he’ll look like a wizard.
Comments like this fail to see that there could be more than one problem. Of course Maddon isn’t the entire problem, but he may be a problem. You can’t fix everything at once, but you need to start somewhere. I never understand why people think mediocre managers should keep their jobs in the midst of horrible performances. It’s not all Maddon’s fault, but something drastic needed to be done to save the season.
The season is lost. Face it, the team isn’t good enough. Terrible contract to one dimensional Rendon, a cut rate starting pitching staff, too much money allocated to a single player. Trout is great, but his contract is a curse. And it’s going to get worse before it gets better. Putting all the eggs into one basket is going to cost them a decade of mediocrity, and then, when they trade Ohtani bc they can’t afford to sign him, that’s when the fans will fully realize the extent of years of horrible general management.
The season is lost? We’re not half way through yet. What are you talking about?
Starting pitching staff is top 5 in AL with an ERA a full point lower than 2021. Relievers are in the bottom 5 in the AL with an ERA that is lower than 2021. Arte can afford more than the $188 million he is spending. At the end of this season $75 million is coming off the books. $15 million more after 2023. Signing Ohtani should not be a problem.
Yep. More here than this. Heck your last winning season was 2015. The little I know of Mr. Moreno, sounds like he has a personality similar to the Os Peter Angelos. Passionate for the game but to the point they get too involved with the baseball decision making. Since Mr. Angelos has been out and his sons in, it’s a new day in Baltimore. The sons are not passionate baseball people. Translation. They are staying away from the daily operation; relying on their baseball people to make the baseball decisions. Refreshing. Question to Halos fans. Is there a general consensus that Mr. Moreno is too involved?
Mike Trout advice to extension candidates/free agents : Learn from my mistakes , always get an opt out clause
with 400 plus million,
If I am not mistaken, I believe Phil Nevin will be the first ever manager that ever went #1 overall. Fun fact. Well, not really that fun and maybe not even a fact because I am not 100% sure. But trivia nonetheless.
He should hire a coaching staff consisting only of guys that went first overall.
Otheer than Nevin, I can’t find a single #1 overall pick that is in coaching. The Dave Roberts that went #1 is not the Dodgers manager. https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?overall_pick=1&draft_type=junreg&query_type=overall_pick&from_type_jc=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0
I am wrong. Harold Baines actually managed 4 games with the ChiSox as an interim manager during a couple of Ozzie Guillen suspensions.
But I don’t know if it should count since he was just an interim.
That is being in coaching. Thanks Forgot about him. So we have Nevin’s bench coach or hitting coach in Baines.
Please bring in Darren Erstad to be the new manager. With all the young players, who the Angels need to count. Hire a manager who is to dealing with young players.
I like it.
Nevin managed in the minors. Wouldn’t that make him qualified to work with young players?
Managers are hired to be fired.
Anyone have Bochy’s number?
“The number you have dialed is no longer in service”
https://www.sportico.com/leagues/baseball/2021/bochy-still-in-play-1234640377/
Erstad, Bochy– both good ideas.
Retired
More than anything this signals to me that Perry Minasian is really in charge of the team. Joe was Arte’s hire. Arte’s buddy. Arte’s definition of a “baseball man.”
He was hired the year before Perry got here.
And Perry canned him.
Just like Perry let Arte’s toy Pujols walk, cut Upton before the season, brought in a training staff from Atlanta to replace the one we had, etc.
Really, this is the first time it has looked like a GM is really running things since Bill Stoneman left. For the last 18 years it has been Arte and Sosh.
HalosHeavenJJ;
B I N G O !
Good. He is terrible and overrated. The rays had success because of a terrific front office and the cubs had success due to a talented team and Theo. He stunted the development of most of the cubs stars and couldn’t handle a pitching staff at all. Then watched him replicate it with the angels. Good riddance to a man who has to be smartest in the room and purposely tried to be edgy and opposite to seem smart. Can’t stand him.
Also to expand on my disdain for him: Maddon is the type of manager to sit you a day after going 4-4 instead of letting you see if you can stay hot. He doesn’t allow batters to get in a rhythm at the plate or in field with constant changing. And he over relies on the bullpen and ruins starters morale. I truly believe he’s the reason Lackey didn’t return after the ws. His pitchers always look angry at him and rightfully so.
Maddon is the most successful manager in the history of both the Rays and the Cubs.
The Rays had 8 straight seasons of losing 91-106 games when he came on board and in 3 years they were in the WS.
The Cubs had been around 141 years when he came on board and he led them to 4 straight playoff appearances and a WS win.
That you don’t like him is obvious. Its also obvious that your dislike for him is standing in the way of seeing all that he has accomplished. To even try to say that he is not an incredibly good manager says volumes about your lack of judgement. It says you choose not to pay attention to the facts.
Enter Carlos Beltran!
Happy for Phil Nevin, he’s been knocking on the door for a managerial job for awhile.
Bring back Scioscia
The Bizarro Angels season continues. I’ve never seen anything like this.
Angels relievers are 14th in the majors with 2o7 innings pitched. 14th is pretty average. 12 blown saves is tied for the worst in the majors. 31 home runs allowed is tied for the 2nd worst in the majors. So did Maddon misuse the bullpen or is the bullpen just that bad? Offense looks ok even with Rendon underperforming, only the Yankees and Red Sox among AL teams have scored more runs. Not saying Maddon is a good manager, but either Nevin is a pitching guru (probably not) or the Angels need to replace the bullpen.
Maddon basically had two bullpen setups. One that went Loup, Tepera, Iglesias in games we were winning, then one that went with everyone else.
Problem is Loup and Tepera imploded and Maddon kept putting them in key spots.
I’m not sure exactly what the answer is. Herget is back and has looked good. But at some point either Loup and Tepera are going to be what we paid for or this bullpen is just going to suck.
Not actually that surprising. As a Rays fan I’ve learned that his unique style gets old. Was glad to see him and his clubhouse penguins, magicians, etc go. It grew old in Chicago and now a very good team loses 12 straight? Sure…he has his fans, I’m just not one of them.
Did anyone think this team was a contender for the division? Lose 12 in a row 5 of which by 1 run…think the Joe Maddon’s of the worlds have earned the chance to right the ship. That is unless he said screw it, I’m getting in my van and going to the dessert.
Say whatever you want about Joe Maddon but you can’t, can’t, can’t lose 12 games in a row and not make some sort of change. Maybe you fire some coaches first, but this is well within reason and Maddon certainly carries fault for these losses.
As a lifelong Angel fan, this is about as low as I’ve felt regarding this team. Every year I care less and less, and it’s not just because of the losses and disappointment and underachieving. This team has done everything it can to alienate its fans, and the only reason why it hasn’t bit them harder is because OC fans don’t really care. As long as Trout and Ohtani are there, people will pay to go. Arte knows this.
Here’s a rundown of some lowlights: Hiring a perverted creep as a coach, having a clubhouse attendant that assisted OPPOSING TEAMS in cheating, having a high-ranking club official drug addict legally responsible for the death of a player, and attempting to secure a favorable purchase of property by bribing an elected official. I can look past losses, but this stuff… I mean, Arte is the worst owner in baseball. Maybe in all of sports. I haven’t even talked about his part in prolonging the lockout and wanting to prolong it even more in the way that he voted.
This franchise is just completely lost. It has no idea how to put a consistently competitive team on the field. The only reason Maddon was even here in the first place was because he had name recognition and a connection to those early-mid 2000’s heydays and Arte figured that would help put butts in the seats. He doesn’t actually care about winning. Not sure how much longer I can truly care about this team when my return on investment is so low as to almost be nonexistent.
I literally could have written at least half this post. Some of the tell tale signs for me were the departures of Victor Rojas, Jose Mota, and Salmon/Anderson from the post game. I understand some of this is a reflection of Bally Sports, but some of the key Angels faces and voices have/are departing.
And here I am, as a Royals fan, just watching other teams can their managers because they have high expectations. Royals Ownership is bound and determined to go down with the current regime like the titanic.
Winning in KC is entirely like playing black jack in Vegas. There’s WAY too much luck involved for consistency. That 2014 team was fun…but if Oakland doesn’t flake out that’s a one season team that took almost a decade of drafting high to build.
They won the World Series in ’15
Both Ausmus and Pujols must feel vindicated.
Why? Ausmus didn’t get hired as a manager somewhere else. Pujols is hitting .207 with 4 homeruns, and his replacement Walsh is an All-star hitting .254 with 10 homers and 34 RBI. The Dodgers didn’t bother resigning him. How was Pujols vindicated?
Yea I don’t get that either
Vindicated as in the issue with the Angels wasn’t an Ausmus issue. Now – Ausmus isn’t a good manager – but the issue there wasn’t him. There’s a rotting head in Anaheim.
As for Pujols – he had a run in with Madden. Who’s working in MLB now? Not Madden.
I vote for LaRussa as the next guy to go….. hopefully sooner than later
At LaRussa’s age there is no later.
Rondon hurt AGAIN
Trout 0-26?
Ward on IL
Ohtani .220 BA .440 slug over the last two weeks
Until then they were 11 over .500
Hard to see that being a managers fault but the GM needed a scapegoat
Ward and Trout not being able to produce are the two biggest issues with the team. Its Rendon, btw, not Rondon. He wasn’t really part of much of the offense the first month, anyway.
It’s not a scapegoat situation. The Phillies fired Girardi in a similar situation and immediately won three straight. They can’t fire the players, so they are trying to shake things up and get the players to focus. I’m sure they will say nice things about Maddon. It’s not his fault Ward, Rendon and Fletcher are injured and Trout and Ohtani have slumped, or selecting a .180 hitting shortstop.
Can’t work miracles with bad signings, lack of starting pitching, and injuries.
Joe Girardi now Joe Madden?! Maybe Joe Biden should be next
Gee, you are so funny. Betting you are a fantastic person. Who is divorced and has kids that won’t talk to him.
Go troll on a political website, Russian lover.
thought police alert——you have been flagged for wrongthink——thought police alert….
NO FUN ALLOWED
typical liberal who can’t take a joke lmao are you going to go protest & burn houses and buildings down because your angry Damn tyrant!
EXACTLY
You can’t fire someone who in reality was never really hired
Aside from the facts that Trout and Ohtani are both in a flat spin, Velazquez can’t hit, Brandon Marsh has become a strikeout machine, and the organization sends Adell to AAA for the umpteenth time to find his swing only to be called back up before he actually finds his swing……oh, and the bullpen is a hot mess and really has been to a degree all season, this team’s not bad. Oh, and Anthony Rendon is on the IL for the second time this year already. Maddon doesn’t bear all the blame here, but he didn’t do himself any favors.
I thought he was a great manager with TB. With the Cubs, you could see he was trying to get too cute. And he’s still doing that, imho. But this isn’t all his fault either. They’ve had some injuries, but Velazquez, Wade, Rengifo, Mayfield, Wallach & Lagares have 23% of their PAs. That feels like a pretty fair amount of PAs given to guys that are borderline MLB players.
As I’ve said for three years, their development of Adell is malpractice. Maybe he just isn’t any good, but he still should’ve been handled better. Marsh needs to be demoted. He has some skills, but he also has a 50/6 K/W in his last 140 PAs.
OTOH, this could also be an issue of expectation management. Had he started off 0-12, and then went 27-17, he’d be a genius and getting an extension.
I just wish they had waited until after the Red Sox series. I’d prefer them not to be playing to prove anything over the next 3 games.
Next manager: Joe Girardi
Time to hire Donald Trump, make the Angels GREAT again!!
Well, it is Orange County…there’s that.
Joe Maddon is a very good to great manager. Tough loss. Hope the change bares well for the Angels.
This was inevitable. Maddon was mismanaging the line ups and the pitching staff. He got away with it in April when our schedule was light. But May and June revealed the flaws in his “strategies” when we started playing the Yanks and other good teams. I think this was a good decision. Perry is a strong GM and is able to make decisions that need to be made to turn the team around. And he apparently has the buy in of Moreno.
I’m in LA this week and plan to go to the game Wednesday. Hopefully it’s the start of a turn around for us.
Disappointing. I was trying to stay optimistic and hope things got turned around but it’s even harder to see the Angels winning with Phil Nevin at the helm. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Nevin has never managed so there is no track record to base pessimism on.
I think managerial decisions don’t have as much of an impact on games as a lot of people seem to think they do… I think he’ll probably do a passable job as far as decision making. It’s not against Phil Nevin personally it’s just the midseason switch in this manner doesn’t inspire confidence for the group as a whole making it all the way.
If you don’t think managerial decisions don’t impact games then you’ve never watched Dave Roberts manage in the playoffs
I never said they didn’t impact games, I just said I didn’t think they impacted games as much as most people think they do. Just a personal opinion though
Being the backup manager was possibly why he was hired in the first place. Perry had a plan.
Nevin managed in the minors. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed either.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Dusty Baker get canned, puts out the worst lineup cards in baseball. If an Astro hits a HR, they’re automatically given the next game off, and he refuses to move Yuli down in the lineup when he doesn’t hit a thing.
Fire the manager of the 1st place team? In what twisted logic does that make sense?
Didn’t the Phillies sweep a team when they fired their manager?
Maybe the Halos will do the same?
Well the Angels already lost game 1 of the series but I think all Angels would be ecstatic with 3 out of 4
They need Rendon to come back and be play-manager. Realistically that’s the future.
So we blame it on joe let look at the big Picture . One your Bullpen is crap and your starting pitching.is not the greatest. Now your back up player off the bench are crap too this team play way over there head mike trout hasn’t showing His great defense in the 12 game losing streak Artie Marino don’t wanna win
2 managers fired in the last week, that I’d kill to have in KC over Matheny
Maddon to KC for 12 mil is wishful thinking.
Scapegoat. Yeah, Maddon just not right for this team. But could anyone have led this team to success? I hate to admit it but we just saw what a professional team looks like – the Yankees.
The Angels are light years from that..
If you couldn’t tell hewasabad manager, you were not watching the games.
Halo,
I NEVER said he was a good or bad baseball manager.
Agree with most of your criticism on in game decisions but hindsight is 20/20.
So who would you hire Halo?
Bring back Scioscia.
No. Scioscia’s a cancer.
A lot of people in SoCal think Nevin is manager material.
Rumors in the off-season were that he’d be in contention for the Padres gig.
I don’t think Nevin even interviewed for the Padres job.
He didn’t.
He took the money + the sweet California life = being lazy and giving no heart and soul to the game anymore
Well, if thats true it happened in Chicago with his wine collection and personal branding. He has a lot of Camera Carter in him.
I don’t think fans and the organizations of the Phillies or angels have the right to demand playoffs or bust ! Sure have the right to be disappointed if they don’t compete for them but neither have close the the roster that have the right to say it’s a disgrace if they don’t even make the third wild card ! Phillies aren’t better then the giants or braves for that spot and angels aren’t better the either saux team or the guardians
Oh, I’m Sorry, I Thought This Was America
Two weeks ago the Angels were the #1 AL wild card, now they’re on the outside looking in. Gone from a game behind the Astros in the division to 8.5 games out. Just went 0-6 on a Northeast trip that featured an embarrassing sweep by Philly who just sacked their own skipper. Back home they’re hosting the Red Sox who’ve come around — and Thor’s old team the Mets are in Anaheim for the weekend.
On top of that, there’s that aborted ballpark purchase that caught Anaheim’s now-former mayor in an FBI sweep.
Don’t think the Angels will be welcome in the LBC any time soon.
Can’t believe they paid 12 million to a manager let alone that one. Best to go dirt cheap with a 1st timer who is willing to buy in to the gms vision and plan.
Had to go. Can’t have a massive losing streak. Can’t fire the players.
I’ve always thought of Maddon a lot like Tony LaRussa. Kind of the managerial cherry you put on a team that’s built for a potential world championship. I have no idea. He built a rep in Tampa. Then they ousted Renteria in Chicago for him once the Cubs turned a corner. But then it was a lot of low energy existence after 2016. Don’t know the guy, but he’s a fit for someone who needs that low key thing. I got a little tired of his shtick, but that doesn’t mean anything.
Maybe the Phillies and Angels should have just worked out a trade.
Makes me wonder how safe Scott Servais is in Seattle. He may be Dipoto’s boy, but if Joe Maddon can get fired, anybody can.
DiPoto and Servais are very tight going back to the Angels days. If anything that’d be a “reassignment”.
Most overrated manager in baseball.
That’s what I was going to say,
Extremely Overrated !!
Most successful managers are overrated as far as their contribution to team success. Their “success” is usually measured in some kind of intangible way. Which is fine. But what is a win or two worth? Not 12 Mil a season. You’re successful by developing a rep for successful players liking you and preferring to play for you. If they aren’t successful….moot point.
I thought the Angels were a little far away for that cherry type manager.
Definitely not 12 million a season. Maybe 4 million a season.
One of the all time greats. Never an illness or a rumor of infidelity. I’m sure someone in his family is named Ann and there’s probably a Robert in there as well. His glasses are cute and he seems to be an advocate of fine wine and keeping roe v wade. He was liked in Tampa, adored in Chicago and became a world icon in California. Baseball is in a stronger place now thanks to him. More Latinos are expressing interest in little league, television contracts are at an all time high and the concession stands have become eco friendly. Automatic first ballot Hall Of Fame. Trout is likely to at least sit tonight and possibly opt out the rest of the season in solidarity to his favorite manager, friend, and father figure. Joe will land on his feet again, Hopefully in a broadcast position so the rest of the nation can share him.
Haha. But Maddon’s chance to get into the HOF just went out the window. Big if, but if he had won a World Series (maybe just a pennant) with the Angels, he would have been in.
He’s a good quote. Hall voters probably love him. He’s like managerial Big Papi.
Thanks for your contribution to the site, Joe.
Never thought he was better or worse than anyone else could have done. He’s easily replaceable
Well if the team comes back then it was him if not then what?
Girardi, now Maddon. How in the name of everything upside down does David Bell still have a job in Cincinnati?
Because no one else wants it?
Bell, whose father captained some of the worst teams willingly back in the day, is made of the same stock. Somebody has to absorb those Ls when teams are swinging low, and nobody does it better than the Bells.
True. Buddy piloted some pretty awful teams in Detroit, Colorado, and Kansas City
Several things have gone wrong this year including injuries to key players – Ward, Rendon, Fletcher, Stassi, Suzuki, etc. It takes a 40 man roster to navigate a 162 game season and the Angels top-heavy roster is not there yet. If healthy, the Angels can make some noise. Running out Lagares, Adell, Wallach, Romine, Wade, Velasquez, Mayfield, etc on a daily basis will eventually catch up with a team looking to contend.
As noted in previous comments, this is clearly Perry’s team having jettisoned Albert, Justin and now Joe. Perry has Arte’s ear and confidence. As an Angels fan, that’s the best news of all. I continue to believe, we will look back in a few years and say Perry is a very good GM.
“Of course I want to manage. I’m really good at it….and I’m humble, too. Just ask me and I’ll tell you.”
If you didn’t show up to the games until the 7th inning you would have been a better manager than Maddon.
A million dollars to NOT manage a major league team in 2023. I think we’re all getting ripped off by doing this for free.
The *worst part about what you wrote is Maddon is probably going out and complaining about how much he got screwed!
I’d hope he’s a professional by now, but that’d probably shock anyone. Maybe a shock was needed. Something was going to give. 12 games causes things to happen.
The loser Phillies will hire probably mid season to bring the local guy back home.
He could be a good fit for other teams (Royals, Reds, other teams with bad managers)
He’s not a basement dwelling manager. Chicago fired Renteria after a single season just to add him as that piece. He has something strange going on. Tampa was fine letting him walk away in what was probably collusion…and Chicago moved on. This is a guy that is a good quote on a competing veteran team. A little like Stengel.
I’m pretty sure Joe would of liked for the Angels to bring in a starting shortstop, another starter and relief pitcher and a OF after cutting Upton.
I mean they knew Fletcher was hurt since last year. What if Ward just flat out never hit, and of course starters go down, although we’re doin pretty well so far with our minor league depth
I still remember Coghlan taking out Kang at 2nd base and Maddon having the nerve to crack a joke that he heard Kang had Plantar Fasciitis after Kang was taken to the hospital.
Halo,
I NEVER said he was a good or bad baseball manager.
Agree with most of your criticism on in game decisions but hindsight is 20/20.
So who would you hire Halo?
You can’t fire the owner, and that is why Angels fans are destined for disappointment for the foreseeable future.
Another front office passing the blame to the manager.. I’m pretty sure about 90% of the teams in baseball are run that way.
I didn’t catch the presser. Did someone in the FO utter the obligatory “We needed a fresh voice in the Clubhouse, so……..”
Good luck to Phil Nevins!
Halo,
No sarcasm, it’s an honest question.
Who’s Next?
I’ll guess Nevin.
Team rallies around him, keeps a job for a while..
Im putting this statement out here to calm the White Sox fan base. No. Tony La Russa will NOT be fired this season. If at all. In fact, we are so pleased with his performance of his managerial duties we are discussing a 10 year extension. Rest easy south side!
His widow will love the security.
Halo11Fan…
I want to know what you think about this move and what can the Angels do from this point forward to make the playoffs? I respect your unfiltered, unbiased and straight shooter opinion about the team I’ve loved so dearly my entire life.
i’m not him but i want darin erstad as a new manager. he took a underperforming college team and took it to the college world championship. a couple years ago interviewed for a manager position. so there is a want. and he was a captain of the world series winning angels.
They need to make at least one really clever trade. One that they really hit on. Swap a couple players for a couple players and win the deal. Have the new acquisitions get hot at the right time sort of like how it worked for the Braves last year.
now that he is gone, let’s go angels!
It’s Moreno who needs to go…
Kurt Suzuki should apply. He’s a smart guy, I’d bet Arte Moreno really likes him, he’d work well with Minasian, and 38 is a good time for a ballplayer to be thinking about his next job.
It’d be ironic if they hired Girardi behind Maddons back and then fired him Renteria style.
Who’s next, Lovullo?
Lovullo would have to be caught red-handed hosing the owner’s wife/daughter/son before that would happen. AZ believes in Tory no matter what.
There has been talk within the Diamondbacks organization about extending Lovullo so don’t see him going anywhere.
I’m not sure there is a “next” unless its Bell or Matheny, though there is probably an outside chance the Nats could fire Dave Martinez before the season is over
Matheny is a “Builder of Men” and that is HUGE in the Royals organization.
and the destroyer of young talent, and bp arms.
The Royals have destroyed young talent for a long time. Their old vaunted bullpen was built on rotation washout. I’m still awaiting the arrival of Mike Montgomery.
That’s two managers down in a week: Girardi for the struggling Phillies and Madden for the Angels
for losing to the Phillies.
Some teams just don’t have the chemistry to win no matter who is at the helm. They have some great talent but honestly the Ohtani thing just seems gimmicky to me. He is an incredible athlete no doubt but does all the attention absorb too much of the team’s energy? Was Maddon the right guy to handle all that goes with that? I don’t know, baseball is funny like that. Just have him as a hitter for a while and see what happens. Wish Nevin all the best, he is a good guy.
What a lucky guy Nevin is.
Maybe a good move but how about get rid of that stupid 6 man rotation? That’s probably hurting them more than helping when you consider a guy like Syndergaard who needs to bounce back but only pitches once every seven or eight days.
Probably not enough petting zoos or pajama party’s! That was his secret at Chicago. Baby sitting primodonnas!!
He wasn’t exceptional at it. Because they won in Chicago when they should have at first opportunity and then silence.
What a season. From great heights to a nosedive.
Perhaps a change in the managerial position will help Angels get back on track.
Maddon has been a manager that built his name off the efforts of a supremely skilled Tampa front office. He took over a Cubs team just set to be real contenders. But he hasn’t shown he can manage a team in normal times and push them over the hump. That’s not all his fault…just like it’s false praise to credit him too much with Tampa. He’s been reportedly loved kn the clubhouse. But after the Cubs tailspin…and this Angels lethargy…it’s fair to question gimmick or magic.
He needs to get HIS team again. Nit just be the Phil Jackson type topper on a championship team.
But what were they going to do? He was something like .433 in his time in Anaheim. The front office has to suspicion more in this 12 game streak than they’re letting out.
What did you expect with triple A players like Trout, Ohtani and Rendon on the team? Plus, no pitching depth.
I get that Velazquez has defensive value, but he needs to go. He’s a hole in the batting order. An automatic out and a rally killer. His defense has been subpar as a late as well. I hear he’s a defensive liability, but I believe it’s time for some Stefanic at 2nd base. Use Wade at SS.
It sounds like Maddon needs to stay and the Whole upper management needs to be fired, Along with the current owner.
Joe Maddon really got a raw deal here I don’t get it. It’s a rough spot in the schedule that is all this 13 game losing streak. New York, Toronto, and Boston are the three hottest teams in the American League nobody is beating them. The 4 losses against Philly hurt I give you that but Toronto has won 11 of 13, Yankees are off to the hottest start in 50 years and Boston is now 16 of 21. The question really should be asked is are the Angels that good?
He tried He sucked
I remember when Tampa Bay lodged a tampering complaint against the Cubs for stealing Maddon’s services. He’ll always have 2016, when the Cubbies broke the billy goat curse.
This development reminds me of what Warren Spahn said about Casey Stengel:
“I’m probably the only guy who worked for Stengel before and after he was a genius.”
Fired where- into the sun?
Yes. It was his Maddon voyage.
In a word – overrated.
13 straight now!! They’re turning me into Randy Quaid’s character “Johnny” from Major League 2.
Turn this place into a parking lot!!!
“Bring out the pooper scooper”
My prediction? The Angels will only go south from here. From 2nd down to 4th.
Most overrated manager of our lifetime
Not while Tony LaRussa is in anyone’s lifetime.
But, but, he invented the game. If only he would have had the courage to bat his pitcher 7th. I guess his plantar fasciitis finally caught up with him. Damn shame.
Manager is only as good as his players.
Like the old adage says….managers lose games but players & GMs win games. This is true for every sport.
can we plz unpin
You lose 10-15 games straight, this is what should happen.
Awful decision! You don’t treat legends that way. Quirky or not, it worked for Maddon.
More so, he was very loyal to the Angels, having spent three decades working for them before going to Tampa. He could’ve taken better jobs after the 2019 season but wanted the Angels’ job.
Rays fans, would you rather still be the losing Devil Rays? The winning started with Maddon. Even hometown kid Lou Piniella couldn’t do it.
Cubs fans, would you rather be 114 years since your last championship? Lou Piniella couldn’t do it here either.
In Nevin, it’s nice that the Angels are hiring a hometown kid, and I hope that it works out for him, but I still hate the change.
For fact he managed and contributed to wonderful success in Tampa and Chicago. It could be argued he was applying the organizational systems in both places, though.
My opinion is he’s a good manager when the roster is built to win and the fan base is happy. He engages a happy fan base very well. I don’t necessarily see him getting maximum value from his rosters, and certainly not in 6 seasons.
There’s not much that’s legendary about him besides the public relations that built him.
Maddon is the most successful manager in the history of 2 different MLB franchises. You can count the number of managers that can say that on, well, 1 finger.
2 Pennants and a WS title. 2nd best win-loss record of any manager with 1000 wins this century.
Maybe not legendary, but certainly among the best since 2000.
You don’t treat legends that way? Sure you do. Virtually no managers ever go out on their own terms. And calling Madden a legend is a bit of a stretch.
Maddon will get another shot with a world series contender. That team will win a world title…and he’ll be back to being the legend people want him to be. That’s the role he plays. He’s not the manager for the young roster that gets a team there. He’s Tony LaRussa 2.0.
You know no more about Tony Larussa’s tenure as an MLB manager as anything else.
No…I know nothing of Tony LaRussas tenure. I’ve seen every team he ever managed play going back to his west division pennant in Chicago in ’83. I’ve personally seen him manage every team he’s ever managed. And aside from that I have professional experience with both the Montreal and Colorado organizations. Have a seat, Sammy.
Joe Maddon has been either not renewed, let go, or fired three times in the last 7.5 baseball seasons. He has been deemed not worthy by 10 percent of the teams in MLB during this period of time. He’s a legend in two minds only- yours and his.
Welcome to Philadelphia Mr. Madden
Maddon* – damn autocorrect
I hate autocorrect. It’s always cord tingling words that aren’t even mods peddled.
Rumor is that Joe will be working on the development of a combination satirical/humor/informational magazine with the emphasis on baseball in particular and sports in general.
So keep your eyes peeled to the newsstands for the premier issue of:
MADDON MAGAZINE !!
Big mistake. Big, huge.
Maddon’s been under the gun for a minute and they finally found an excuse to take old yeller out back. However, won’t matter since it’s been the players that aren’t succeeding.
“Sure I’d like to manage again, I’m very good at it” LMFAO! The worst decision maker when it counts. Can’t manage a pitching staff and tinkers with the lineup card until the catcher is in center field and the set up man is in left field.. Intentionally walks someone with the bags juiced. Sure he’s very good. Good for his grandsons little league. .
Here’s a novel concept: talent wins. A manager can only screw up a team. Sparky Anderson, himself said this. People give way too much credit to analytics. The baseball statistics have stayed essentially the same over the years. For as many times I’ve seen the shift take away a hit, I’ve seen it give hits too. Of course you pay attention to statistics, but it’s a game played by humans over 150 games a year. There are way too many variables to be able to control the game and all the teams have the same info.
What has changed is the arrogance and narcissism of people who don’t have the self awareness to understand the game is not about them, so they come up with super funky lineups that really don’t make sense. You bat guys in order of what their AVERAGE is over the year. Sometimes, it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
Being different for the sake of being different is not smart, it’s narcissistic.
I think a lot of people latch on to new trends because they’re insecure and they figure it will make them look smart to pretend to understand something that’s overrated or doesn’t really make things better.
Technically speaking, more info is better in theory, but not in practice. Too many choices and over analyzing make people less happy, not more.
The game is not as fun as it used to be and Maddon had 3 of the top 10 players in baseball with the Cubs!
Analytics usually show that managerial impact is minimal. I think you’re wrong about the insecurity thing,though. Analytics DO show the math of how games are won and lost. But I agree that’s seperate from whether the game is interesting. “Interesting” is subjective, but taken on the whole…general vibe…all that. Nope…baseball isn’t as appealing. But that’s partially due to other things being MORE appealing now and a lot more options.
I’m not sure who is coming up with super funky lineups. Great players to the eye are usually ones that are great analytically too. But I’ll say if you bat a .300 hitter leadoff who also has a .300 obp…you’re going to be in trouble over 162.
More info…doesn’t matter…it’s accurate info.
But I’m over the extreme shifts and mlb should be too. In the end it’s a visual entertainment. If the game sucks on the field to watch…nothing matters.
Baseball is finding that being a little inefficient isn’t a bad thing. Theo Epstein has said as much and he has some authority in the main office.
Giving thought to what the greatest managerial season I’ve seen has been. I believe it might be Phil Garner with the 1992 Milwaukee Brewers. They took Toronto into the final weekend of the regular season and missed the pre-wild card East title by two games. That was a team that took on his scrappy personality and took some wins that maybe wouldn’t have been there. A well built and managed roster.
Seems like the best managing jobs show up when a team is in the thick of things…and neither out of it or taking things by 10 games. The times when a couple decisions, or sheer intangibles can push into play.
I was monitoring Ned Yost during the 2014. I’ll always believe he cost the Royals an outright Central title by his managerial failures in Boston series alone. He was worth -2 wins basically. That’s a lot actually. And had they not come back against Oakland in that crazy wild card game he might have needed a police escort to get out of Kauffman.
The other end is a Joe Torre who made his bones on managing personalities. That was no small feat in NY.
I was never convinced Joe was a good manager. As many in Chicago know, the Cubs won the World Series in spite of his stupid managerial decisions, especially in Game 7. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the Cubs won the WS that year, but Maddon was not the real reason why they did.