Following one of the wildest deadlines in recent memory — and, perhaps, the most significant deadline trade in living memory — even die-hard baseball fans could be forgiven for losing track of all the action. To get you caught up, here’s a recap of the weird, the wild, and the wacky over the last few days.
San Diego: It’s highly unlikely that anyone reading this post is unaware of the sport-shaking mega-deal that sent Juan Soto to San Diego, and there isn’t much to say about it that hasn’t already been said by MLBTR’s Anthony Franco. Though they’ll almost certainly have to run the three-game Wild-Card-series gauntlet this year, hyper-aggressive president of baseball operations A.J. Preller — who also acquired top-line closer Josh Hader in a deal with the Brewers and free-agent-to-be Brandon Drury from the Reds — has pushed all of his chips into the center of the table, effectively giving his club three seasons to win a World Series. Soto is under control through 2024, and Hader will be a free agent at the conclusion of the 2023 season.
Given the size of the package Preller sent to Washington — and the caliber of players therein — anything less than at least one title will feel like a bust. That said, that no opposing pitcher will relish the prospect of facing Soto, Manny Machado, and Fernando Tatis Jr. (currently nearing a rehab assignment) in order is a massive understatement, and the Friars will be a force to be reckoned with come October. In San Diego, the future is now.
Atlanta: While one of the league’s hottest teams could have been forgiven for more-or-less standing pat — particularly after locking up third baseman and MVP candidate Austin Riley to a ten-year, $212MM extension — the defending champs were once again active. President of baseball ops Alex Anthopoulos added a major piece to an already strong bullpen, acquiring Raisel Iglesias, in a last-minute deal with the Angels. The Braves also revamped the back half of their roster, acquiring Jake Odorizzi, Robbie Grossman, and Ehire Adrianza to shore up their rotation, outfield mix, and bench, respectively.
Oddly, they also subtracted a bit, sending former closer Will Smith to the Astros in the Odorizzi deal and back-end bullpen stalwart Jesse Chavez to the Angels in the Iglesias deal, but there’s little doubt that the team is stronger after the moves than it was before. Odorizzi provides depth to a rotation that includes a struggling Ian Anderson and rookie sensation Spencer Strider, who may be on an innings limit. The switch-hitting Grossman is a strong righty bat who can share time with the left-handed Eddie Rosario following Adam Duvall’s season-ending surgery. Adrianza offers cover at several positions, including second base, where Ozzie Albies’ timeline on a return from injury remains murky. Iglesias both strengthens and balances a previously lefty-heavy bullpen that, in addition to Smith, had given a great many high-leverage innings to A.J. Minter and Tyler Matzek.
Milwaukee: In one of the stranger — if, perhaps, shrewder — moves of the deadline period, the first-place Brewers subtracted a pretty major piece, sending all-world closer Josh Hader to the Padres in exchange for a ready-made high-leverage replacement in Taylor Rogers, the oft-injured but wildly talented Dinelson Lamet, and a pair of prospects. It’s an on-its-face odd move for a serious contender to trade away its most dominant player, but it’s also the sort of tough decision small-market teams (a la the Rays) have had to make to keep a contention window open for as long as possible.
The addition of Rogers softens the blow considerably, and one day after dealing Hader, Milwaukee followed by acquiring righties Matt Bush and Trevor Rosenthal, further back-filling the ’pen to account for the loss of Hader. Trading Hader — who’ll be a free agent following the 2023 season and could top $15MM in salary next year– now rather than in the offseason gave the Padres two playoff runs with the superstar closer but also maximized the Brewers’ return. Outfielder Esteury Ruiz, in particular, is a largely MLB-ready addition. Devin Williams, Rogers, Bush and eventually Rosenthal give the Brewers plenty of late-inning options.
New York: To the surprise of just about everyone, the Mets — who held a three-game division lead over the Braves entering play Tuesday — didn’t make any major moves. They did add a pair of potential contributors in Darin Ruf (exchanged for J.D. Davis, Thomas Szapucki, and a pair of low-minors pitchers to share DH duties with fellow recent arrival Daniel Vogelbach) and reliever Mychal Givens. They’d been linked to Josh Bell (sent to the Padres as part of the Juan Soto deal) and Trey Mancini (to the Astros) as well as Willson Contreras and Ian Happ (both among the only significant pieces not to move). Ultimately, general manager Billy Eppler didn’t pull the trigger on a move of the scale that had been expected of a first-place team owned by Steve Cohen.
While Givens, who’s had an excellent year with the Cubs, should strengthen an already strong bullpen and Ruf will likely improve surprisingly anemic DH production, manager Buck Showalter will have to largely get by with in-house options the rest of the way.
Los Angeles: The Dodgers entered the deadline period as co-favorites to land Juan Soto and reportedly attempted to at least engage the Angels on Shohei Ohtani. Despite these lofty aspirations, the owners of the NL’s best record had a comparatively quiet deadline, with no move remotely rivaling the Max Scherzer/Trea Turner blockbuster of a year ago.
Instead, the Andrew Friedman-led front office kept things relatively cool (at least by their recent standards), acquiring reliever Chris Martin from the Cubs for utility-man Zach McKinstry and struggling outfielder/DH Joey Gallo from the Yankees for pitching prospect Clayton Beeter. Nothing the Dodgers could have done would have changed much in the regular season — even with Juan Soto and Josh Hader headed to San Diego, L.A. is all but a lock to win the NL West and a first-round bye. Manager Dave Roberts will have largely have to make do with what he’s got as the Dodgers attempt to get back to the World Series following 2021’s disappointing NLCS loss to the Braves.
St. Louis: Though they came up short in the Juan Soto bidding and watched rumored target Frankie Montas head to the Bronx, the Cardinals — who sat 2.5 games back of the Brewers in the NL Central and a game behind the Phillies for the final NL Wild Card spot entering play Tuesday — hardly stood pat. The Cards added left-handed starter Jose Quintana and right-handed reliever Chris Stratton in a deal with the Pirates, as well as southpaw Jordan Montgomery from the Yankees. Though the latter move came at the cost of currently injured but broadly productive outfielder Harrison Bader, there’s little doubt that the Cards emerge from the deadline with a much stronger pitching staff for the final ride of Adam Wainwright, Albert Pujols, and Yadier Molina than they had before.
The Cards entered the deadline with little stability in rotation beyond Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, and Dakota Hudson. With offseason signee Steven Matz still on the shelf (and ineffective when he’s been on the field), Quintana and Montgomery should immediately solidify the rotation and give the St. Louis faithful a real shot to send their aging legends into the sunset with a playoff appearance — if not a division title.
Philadelphia: Though only on the periphery of the NL East race, the Phils added several pieces at the deadline, headlined by starter Noah Syndergaard. Thor isn’t the dominant force of his first several Mets years, but he has had a solid bounce-back season with the Angels and will solidify the back end of an already solid rotation — and, perhaps, take the ball in the decisive third game in the Wild Card round.
President of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski also added young outfielder Brandon Marsh to an outfield mix that badly needed a plus defender of this type. Veteran reliever David Robertson strengthens a middle-of-the-pack bullpen and takes the place of struggling veteran Jeurys Familia, who was designated for assignment. The Phils also picked up infielder Edmundo Sosa in a small deal with the Cardinals, adding a standout, versatile defender — albeit one with a light bat.
Washington: The departure of generational talent Juan Soto from a team that went from a World Series title to cellar-dwelling in a flash makes yesterday a sour day for Nats fans, but the haul Mike Rizzo pulled back in return for Soto (and first baseman Josh Bell) could portend much sweeter days ahead. The Nats all but emptied out the top ranks of the Padres’t farm system, adding a coterie of high-caliber prospects in left-hander MacKenzie Gore, shortstop C.J. Abrams, outfielders Robert Hassell III and James Wood, and righty Jarlin Susana alongside make-weight first baseman Luke Voit. In a smaller deal, the Nats also picked up minor league outfielder Trey Harris in a swap sending Ehire Adrianza to the Braves.
Time will tell if Rizzo’s return matches the value of perhaps the best pure hitter since Barry Bonds, but with his club unlikely to contend anytime soon and Soto making clear he had no interest in the best extension offer the Nats were willing to give him, he may not have had much of a choice. They may no longer have Soto, but Washington fans will have more than their fair share of young talent on display for at least the next half-decade.
Cincinnati: The Reds, mired in mediocrity, continued a payroll-driven sell-off. Cincinnati held several of the more intriguing pieces of the deadline period in starters Luis Castillo and Tyler Mahle and versatile infielder Brandon Drury. The team broke the deadline logjam, sending Castillo to the Mariners late last week for a quartet of prospects headlined by infielders Noelvi Marte and Edwin Arroyo. They hardly stopped there, however, shipping off Mahle to the Twins for three prospects, Drury to the Padres for one, and outfielder Tommy Pham to the Red Sox for a player to be named later.
How long it will take for them to return to contention remains to be seen, but the substantial prospect haul brought back in the last few days should help speed things along. For the time being, though, the product on the field is going to be underwhelming.
Chicago: One of the more confusing teams to read in the offseason, the Cubs had several substantial pieces — including Willson Contreras and Ian Happ — rumored to be on their way out. Instead, they’ll remain on Chicago’s north side for at least the remainder of the season. Happ has a year of control remaining, but the decision by the Cubs/ front office to hang on to Contreras, one of the better bats (non-Soto division) available at the deadline and a free agent at season’s end, is perhaps the most vexing non-move of a deadline in which trades came fast and heavy.
The team did make several deals, however, effectively emptying out the top half of their bullpen. Chris Martin is now a Dodger (in exchange for utility-man Zach McKinstry), and Scott Effross, David Robertson, and Mychal Givens were shipped out to Yankees, Phillies, and Mets, respectively, each in exchange for a minor-league arm. Whether they seek to either hold on to Contreras long-term or simply receive draft pick compensation by issuing him a qualifying offer at season’s end remains to be seen.
Miami: The Marlins — owners of perhaps the most impressive reserve of young, controllable arms in the big leagues — entered the deadline period on the far periphery of the NL Wild Card race. This is something of a disappointment for a team that shelled out real money to add pop to their lineup (they signed Avisail Garcia ahead of the lockout and Jorge Soler after it) with little to show for it, leading to speculation that the club might trade one of its many controllable arms (per the rumor mill, Pablo Lopez) for a controllable bat.
No such deal came to fruition, but GM Kim Ng did send relievers Zach Pop and Anthony Bass to the Blue Jays for 2018 first-rounder Jordan Groshans. The shortstop, who’s also seen time at third and in the outfield, has an intriguing profile and has consistently gotten on base at all levels of the minors, but his power output has fallen off a cliff in his first taste of Triple-A.
San Francisco: Despite listening to offers on impending free agents Carlos Rodon and Joc Pederson in the midst of career years, the disappointing Giants — currently hovering around both .500 and the periphery of the NL Wild Card race but well shy of last year’s torrid pace — largely stood pat at the deadline, making only a handful of minor moves. They acquired infielder Dixon Machado (from the Cubs) and catcher/infielder Ford Proctor (from the Rays) before swapping Darin Ruf for J.D. Davis, pitcher Thomas Szapucki, and a pair of minor-league arms. They also traded away a handful of more minor pieces, including catcher Curt Casali and left-hander Matthew Boyd (to the Mariners for a pair of minor leaguers), and rehabbing right-hander Trevor Rosenthal (to the Brewers for another minor leaguer).
Pittsburgh: With several members of the Pirates’ loaded farm system making their way to the bigs this season, things may finally be starting to look up for the long-suffering Pittsburgh faithful. While 2022 won’t be the year that ends the club’s seven-season playoff drought, the Bucs entered the deadline as clear sellers. They made only a single significant move, sending reclamation project Jose Quintana (signed in the offseason for only $2MM) and reliever Chris Stratton to the division-rival Cardinals for a young arm with some big-league experience in Johan Oviedo and third base prospect Malcom Nunez.
Arizona: A team on the rise but with little to offer in the way of attractive rental talent, the Diamondbacks had one of the quieter deadlines across the majors. They did make a pair of moves, however, shipping David Peralta to the Rays for low-minors catcher Christian Cerda and righty Luke Weaver to the Royals for 26-year-old corner infielder Emmanuel Rivera, who hasn’t hit much in parts of two big-league seasons but showed real pop in the minors.
Colorado: The Rockies gave the rumor mill a bit of grist, with starter Chad Kuhl and reliever Carlos Estevez both reportedly drawing interest, but they ended the day the only team in the majors not to make a trade in the deadline period. They did shell out a bit of money, signing 37-year-old closer Daniel Bard to a two-year, $19MM extension on Saturday — a move that perplexed many onlookers given Bard’s age and status as an otherwise prototypical trade candidate.
Robrock30
Mets FO is embarrassing as long as Sandy Alderson remains as a Wilpon holdover. Trading JD Davis along with 3 pitching prospects for a 36 yo journeyman who can only hit LHP. Giants took advantage of their desperation for a RH DH. No Catching upgrade, RH Power Bat, and no LH RP. This is not how a Team takes advantage of their window and goes all in. Need to take lessons from the Padres. The pieces that they needed were available LOL
Other teams competing with them for the postseason improved. See Padres, Braves, & Phillies. Massive FAIL!
Camden453
Dude, give me a break. Getting rid of Davis is major addition by subtraction. If there’s any weak link it will eventually be exposed
The game has a way of putting the weakest link in the most important spot of the season, the spot the entire season hinges. For example, Beltran in game 6
The more you eliminate all those weak spots the better your chances
Camden453
The Giants didn’t even want Davis. The Mets were begging them to take him. They had to add in prospects just so they would do it
VonPurpleHayes
@Robrock30 How spoiled can you be? The Mets spent at a historic rate this offseason, more than the Yankees ever did in a single offseason. You’re not NY’s little brother anymore. These moves helped them to be nearly 30 games over .500 on August 3rd and that’s with their two best SPs being injured for the majority of the season. The front office made incremental improvements at the deadline. They didn’t make a splash because the splash was already made before the season started. They are already built to win.
Robrock30
VonPurpleHayes,
I watch 99% of Mets Games and I have watched them since mid 60’s enjoying the Miracle Mets of ’69 and ’73 and returning to NYC to experience the ’86 WS Championship. I know the difference between Frank Cashen and the current FO. The Mets will fall out of 1st Place to the Braves and the Phillies will now be in the Hunt with the additions of Brandon Marsh, Thor, & Robertson. Congratulations on a great deadline. Not winning the Division means that you will have to face the Padres and good luck with that. Mets FO FAILED here. I remember Ruf with the Phils and he wasn’t special as a Player. JD Davis and 3 pitching prospects for a 36 yo who can only hit LHP. LMAO
VonPurpleHayes
@Robrock30 The Phillies are not catching the Mets. The Braves might, but the Braves might have even if the Mets went crazy at the deadline. They’re the defending WS champs and have played great ball for much of the year. Braves have been on the Mets tail for a long while. The Mets losing the division to them doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with deadline moves.
Samuel
Robrock30;
1. Sandy Alderson has less to do with player moves than Stephan Cohen does.
2. There’s a very good chance that David Stearns will be working for the Mets starting this offseason.
3. Mr. Cohen is smart enough to know that he cannot continue to spend like a drunken sailor. MLB bylaw penalties will undercut that. He knows full well that a strong farm system and coaching staff is mandatory for where he wants the organization to go in the future. The Mets were not about to trade decent prospects to strengthen areas for a playoff run. They’re paying a lot of players a lot of money to play this season. Those players need to produce.
4. JD Davis was not in demand from any other team in MLB, nor is Dominic Smith. Great guys, but MLB is a business.
Robrock30
I think the Phils will make the wild card and then they might beat the Mets in the postseason because Mets didn’t go all in at the deadline. No LH RP to pitch to Harper & Schwarber or Brandon Marsh. A platoon DH doesn’t really work as RP can be switched out. Mets team has no Power besides Alonso and Lindor so they can be pitched around. Thor & Wheeler have chips on their shoulders to stick it to Mets.
Robrock30
Samuel,
Sandy is in Cohen’s ear and he is too conservative and has a long history of doing nothing and is a poor talent evaluator. Most GM’s detest him trying to win every trade and he needs to button his mouth. Insulting the Cubs GM for fleecing the Mets last trading deadline with the PCA trade for Baez. He is arrogant. Hans Christian Alderson the Emperor’s New Clothes. LOL
raisinsss
Your opinions are tired and reek of loud and ignorant sports radio.
Vogelbach and Ruf are collectively another Pete Alonso. Naquin is a capable 4th OF (though personally I’d have wanted Peralta). Givens is a very good veteran option that cost nothing.
They’ve got a 3 game division lead and just made (BY FAR) the most impactful deadline acquisition in getting jdg back. With May, Megill, Peterson, and one starter (Carrasco?) slotted for bullpen work as needed.
And they did it without compromising the present or the future, having 5 prospects in the FG top 100, and the consensus #1 in MLB.
Stop. Whining.
Go be a padres fan if you’re into the splashy moves.
A Seal
The Mets do NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, have “the consensus #1 [prospect] in MLB.”
Canosucks
@Robrock30 “The Mets will fall out of 1st Place to the Braves and the Phillies will now be in the Hunt” Dude you are absolutely right! Eppler did an awful job and if you don’t believe your “lying eyes” just read any recap on the trades today.
I still have my Met baseball cards from 1969; just ignore and don’t respond to these guys who are not Mets fans and are not invested like us. They still say 3 game lead when it is not because people like raisinsss don’t even follow the Mets
MyCommentIsBetter
They traded for a guy who can only hit LHP because they brought in a guy (vogelbach) to platoon with who… shocker when you learn this…. only hits RHP……
Canosucks
@raisinsss You reek as a know it all; you know more than professional sports writers and sports talk professionals including everyone on this board which is designed for opinions. You don’t even follow the Mets as you state 3 game lead when it is 2.5; any real fan follows their team daily.
Robrock30
Ed Kranepool attended my Little League banquet along with Roy White of the Yankees. I met Ron Swoboda and chewed his ear off. He is a very nice man. I watched the Mets beat the Braves and then the Orioles from my Junior High School in the afternoon Games.
I lived at Shea between 1987 – 1993 with full season tix and met several of the ’86 Players socially in Manhattan.
I know the differences between those Met Teams and this mediocrity.
raisinsss
Stretch harder, boo.
phenomenalajs
They didn’t fail. They knew all along the best additions post-deadline were going to be from within – deGrom, May, McCann and Megill. There was no reason to gut the top of the farm for anyone not named Ohtani or Soto.
MyCommentIsBetter
Having your Mets card from 1969 doesn’t make you right, it makes you old.
Robrock30
Canosucks,
Unfortunately my Baseball Card Collection disappeared while I was away at University and my Parents moved. Shame I had all the Mets and Cardinals cards and all the top Players.
Would be worth a small fortune now.
Regarding Cano, I remember the Yankees offered him to the D’backs in the Randy Johnson trade and they turned him down maybe took Ian Kennedy instead. Cashman got lucky there. LOL
JackStrawb
@robrock30 Apparently you’re supposed to shut up because the owner who stole hundreds of millions of dollars in his career and paid record fines for doing so, misspent a huge amount of payroll last offseason and still can’t hire adequate FO talent.
It would be laughable if the OP weren’t so serious.
Pads Fans
MLB Pipeline has Alvarez #1.
BP has him #2 with Henderson #1.
BA has him #6 with NONE of the top 3 on MLB or BP in their top 3.
No one is listed in top 10 for all 3 mid season lists. Alvarez is #1, #2, #6 in the midseason lists. No one else comes close. Not sure what you consider consensus #1,
Robrock30
JackStrawb,
I have been a fan of yours for a long time and read your posts which are excellent. Nice to see you Brother, post more!
Robrock30 ( Rob which is my Name, Lou Brock my Favorite all time Player, and 30 Rockefeller Center my Favorite NYC Building )
thecoffinnail
@Jason Kendall
Pretty sure he was complaining about the cost of a DH that only hits lefties seeing as Vogelbach will get the majority of DH time. (Since he hits righties). I would have to agree. Even 3 lottery tickets seems excessive for the return.
MyCommentIsBetter
Only Mets fans cry for a player to be traded for an upgrade, and then cry they shouldn’t of traded him…
raisinsss
100%
It’s a joke. Maybe we/they just like spreading misery.
rct
@JasonKendall: Exactly. A few weeks ago, old timers like RobRock and CanoSucks were complaining about how worthless JD Davis and Thomas Szupucki were and how the FO is a joke for even trying to get value for them. Fast forward to today and they’re complaining about the return they got for both players. All while they Mets are in 1st and getting deGrom back. They’re morons.
MyCommentIsBetter
@rct : It blows my mind. They think because they were around in the 80’s that means they know everything. The game has evolved so much over the 50 years. I can’t fathom how someone like RobRock doesn’t understand the Ruf move. They brought in Vogelbach to DH, he can only hit RHP. Ruf is better against RHP, perfect platoon. It makes literally so much sense it hurts to think how someone can’t see it. I’m the farthest thing from a Mets fan, but I also unbiasedly can say it wasn’t the worst moves. Look at the Braves last year, picked up some guys that didn’t seem to move the needle. And look what happened. The Mets still get DeGrom and Megill back this year, that’s 2 good reinforcements too. They’re so simple minded, Mets fans that is. As a Pirates fan, I would give my left nut to watch an ownership and GM bring some guys in when it’s a contending season.
MyCommentIsBetter
I meant Ruf is better v LHP
Big whiffa
@ rob- what moves u think they shoulda made ?
stymeedone
@robrock30
Need to take lessons from the Padres?
While its all feel good today, we won’t know the lesson the Padres and Preller taught us for 3 years. Emptying the farm sounds great if you win now. What if you dont? If Soto leaves, and Machado leaves and the farm is barren, you are looking at a long term rebuild. Nats should be quite entertaining in 3 years.
stymeedone
I only posted once. Not my fault.
Cosmo2
Mets are in a good position right now but I gotta agree with Robrock on this. An awful lot of effort and the biggest thing they accomplished was giving up on Davis for nothing very useful.
VonPurpleHayes
Davis was nothing very useful. They got a dude who can crush lefties and a dude who can crush righties. I think that platoon will be much better than Davis.
Robrock30
VonPurpleHayes,
OK if Ruf is so good why is it that the Phillies parted with him?
I don’t know what happened then, please enlighten us.
TonyGwynnSD19
The San Francisco Giants.LOL
We added Big. Now with us and LAD the sorryasss Giants are finished for the next 3-4 years . Irrelevant. Middling boring Franchise
Balk
@Tony…With still three rings since your 88’ ring for the Doyers, and never had a championship pads. Your comments and hate towards one franchise tells me your a band wagon fan. What did you do your whole life being a fan of a team that’s never won in your lifetime? Stayed in the basement? Ha
raisinsss
Let’s be real here.
You’re just out to be argumentative. If you were actually interested in merits of the trade you’d look up recent performance instead of just falling back on the events of SEVEN YEARS AGO.
Javia135
@Tony…As much as I think Balk may just be a troll he is right about 1 thing: you don’t brag until you have actually won. The Padres have put themselves in a great position to compete for their first World Series title. We should be, and are, extremely excited. Nobody has won the 2022 title yet. Whatever team does, hopefully they will not run their mouths and be classless about it. Let’s try to stay classy San Diego.
Balk
@raisiness, I’m being argumentative? This Tony dude does nothing but chime in with snarky side busting comments on every Giants article. I don’t think I’m doing anything but pointing out the obvious.
Balk
@Javia…ummmm no, I’m no troll. This dude Tony is a three time removed account. Believe he started as rightyspecialist, and has a few other accounts as well. He’s a Dodger fan and not even a true Padres fan. I have and am supportive of the friars and think they have done a great job as of late trying to compete. Picked up great pieces to smash the Dodgers with.
gfan
How much to cross your bridge troll ?
You forgot to thumb up your own post. Pretty sure nobody else will.
raisinsss
@Balk.
Nope, was talking to rob. The commenting system here is awful.
VonPurpleHayes
I didn’t say he was so good. Just an improvement on what the Mets had. The Phillies have a bad track record at developing young talent. Ruf blossomed in South Korea and later San Fran.
Cosmo2
Davis’ potential was more useful in my opinion than acquiring yet another player who provides little else other than decent offense if they have the platoon advantage. It’s this weird obsession Alderson has with players that contribute nothing with the glove or their legs.
JackStrawb
@Robrock30 The lack of intelligent player evaluation was evident the moment the Mets who, if anything, will struggle in the postseason due to their bullpen, dumped off Holderman—with SIX more years of control— for a platoon DH who has been barely replacement level for his career.
Unbelievable.
Holderman with his six years of control after 2022 is the kind of reliever, doing well in his first go-round, solid upside, whom you deal for JD Martinez given the latter’s salary. Martinez, who even at 34 can carry a team for 2-3 weeks when he gets hot. I’d aim higher, but that’s your floor, really.
And the Eppler-Alderson Mets went out and got themselves Vogelbach. It’s not going to end, is it, until the Mets get rid of the entire Alderson-related FO.
Pads Fans
Holderman has a decidedly MEH career 3.85 ERA in the minors and 18 IP in the majors.
While he is still considered a prospect in terms of games plated in the majors, Holderman is not in the Pirates top 30 prospects. He was not in the Mets top 30 prospects.
Vogelbach has a 120 OPS+
This was a no brainer trade. You shore up your offense by trading away a reliever that has little long term value to the team.
Robrock30
Jack Strawb,
You are preaching to the choir now and I love it.
Alderson let Dan Murphy leave to a rival after carrying the Team heroically to the WS in 2015, non tendered Justin Turner and then the Mets had nobody to play 3B for years while David Wright was a no show. He just did the same with Brandon Drury who was with the Mets last year and now was traded to the Padres and hit a HR yesterday.
Remember Jay Bruce the one dimensional Player who he acquired twice and who bombed, and the all time Great running his mouth about signing Michael Cuddyer ( aka Cadaver ) while on the Twins Roster. They then QO him the Mets sign him and the Mets lose their 1st Round Draft Choice. Amazing Believe it or Not
Topped off by his FO recruiting skills hiring Mickey Callaway as manager and then Porter as GM ( two deviants now banned ) and an alcoholic DUI who has been relieved.
Why is this man still working in the Mets organization? What a track record of incompetence.
Robrock30
Jack Strawb,
Make that a Grand Slam for Brandon Drury yesterday. I love the Padres now and that they went all in even though they may have sacrificed the years down the Road.
Even the clueless Wilpons kicked Alderson to the curb deservedly. Shocked that Steve Cohen actually rehired him but not shocked at the results despite their current 1st Place Standing. The Mets are not a well constructed roster with deep holes which will be exposed in the postseason. Such a poor allocation of payroll.
raisinsss
Commenting on a Drury grand slam as if it means something while ignoring Vogelbachs grand slam is all we need to know.
Arbitrary hate.
Feel better, bud!
Robrock30
Raisin,
Vogelbach has looked better ( not physically ) and performed well as he replaces Dom Smith. I just don’t believe that the platoon DH will work in the postseason with better pitching and LH RP forcing bad splits. They needed better.
My comment regarding Brandon Drury is another example in a long line of Alderson not evaluating talent. He was on the Mets roster last year and was productive similar to Justin Turner and they released him and now he will perform with the Padres. You need to read my comments in entirety to follow my drift.
Robrock30
Raisin,
Gil Hodges in ’69 used platoons effectively and it worked great as did Davey Johnson with the ’86 Mets but their rosters were loaded with talent.
These Mets have too many deep holes that will be exploited in the postseason unfortunately. The Mets needed to go all in at the deadline, and they danced around the margins and didn’t do what they needed to do.
I stand by this and we shall see how this works out.
Robrock30
Raisin,
On a positive note, I have great respect for Buck Showalter and platooning is one of his strengths. He will push the right buttons to match up and maximize the lineup. It’s the FO that is the problem ( Alderson & Son ).
GarryHarris
The Mets also picked up OF Tyler Naquin from the Reds. Not so bad 4th OF. The Mets have a team, not a bunch of big name individuals.
kgcubs
As a Cub fan, I was so surprised that Contreras and Happ are still around. Was everything predicated upon a trade with San Diego? Look forward to hearing from Hoyer about why especially, Willy is still with the team. Mahalo
gocincy
Jed Hoyer got caught flat-footed. When Juan Soto became a trade target, he should have moved quickly to secure deals for Contreras and Happ. Instead, he waited too long and a bidding war never developed for Contreras. Now, he’ll only get a compensatory draft pick for Contreras. He should have been able to get something more valuable for Contreras than a comp pick.
crise
Eh, maybe. Hoyer screwed up certainly. But he could have moved a good hitting catcher regardless of when and where Soto ended up and he did not. The issue is he over-played his hand and was left with unsold merchandise. I’m with kgcubs and want to hear what story he has to tell.
Deleted Userr
Idk what was offered but you’d think SOMEONE offered more than a 2nd/3rd round sandwich pick for the catcher who just started the ASG for the NL in a seller’s market.
rondon
You don’t know that Hoyer “screwed up” anything. I think the Padres changed everything when they emptied their farm for Hader and Soto. And the Mets? Who knows what the heck game they were playing. Why would Hoyer give up Contreras or Happ for anything less than his perceived value of them. This thread would be full of whining if he’d traded them for less.
Deleted Userr
“Why would Hoyer give up Contreras or Happ for anything less than his perceived value of them?”
At least on Contreras, because he is about to lose him for absolutely nothing is the answer to that question.
mike127
gocincy—-I guess that getting something more valuable than a comp pick is debatable–BUT THERE IS NO WAY THEY ARE GETTING A COMP PICK…
In order to get a comp pick, Contreras has to be offered the qualifying offer AND sign with another team.
That qualifying offer will be somewhere in the $17-19 MILLION range and there is absolutely no way he turns that down for one year. (someone can come up with a more exact figure)
I am going to suspect that the best he is going to get (probably from the Cubs if pressured) is 3/36 or so being a 31+ catcher at that point.
I don’t see a team going 4-5 years for him and the AAV is not going to be upwards of $15M, so he’s gonna take the QO and the Cubs get him at $18+ next season and do the whole thing again next July with the team on the other end have a much higher prorated end of the season.
OR—the Cubs don’t give him the QO and get nothing although Jed said the comp pick would probably be better than what was offered yesterday, implying as of 8/2/22 they have no choice but to extend the QO.
Samuel
Contreras was crying the other day about leaving the Cubs.
MLB is not Rotisserie League. It’s real human beings: in FO’s, managing, coaching, scouting, and playing.
We’re talking about getting a prospect that may be 2 years away from doing anything at the big league level vs. a generational team player.
In the long run it may well be that this Contreras / Cubs contract situation is simply a bump in the road.
Deleted Userr
Contreras will 100% receive the QO and he will 100% reject it.
Holy Cow!
Contreras can easily get 4 years, $60 million with the QO tag. That’s what the Mets offered Grandal before the 2019 season. I’m guessing the Mets will be looking to upgrade the catcher position next season. That’s one team that should be in on Willson.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Contreras will easily beat your 3/36m projection, Mike. I think the absolute floor for him is 3/45m, but with the NL DH and lack of quality catching options, I expect he’ll get a lot more.
He’d be crazy to take the QO at that position. Aside from Pitcher, that may be the most important spot on the diamond to get that long-term security. Plus this’ll be his last major FA deal, and negotiating that at 31 is more advantageous than negotiating it at 32
RunDMC
I’d imagine he can beat 3/45M. I can’t see him getting less than 50M. He’s having his most productive offensive season pulling part-time DH duty that will preserve him long-term. Now with all teams with DH, a team can solidify their C with premium talent, along with DH. The days of one primary catcher are long gone.
badguyswon86
The Mets still have McCan’t under contract for two years. They’re not going to add another catcher on a multi-year contract with #1 prospect Francisco Alvarez knocking on the door.
Holy Cow!
I forgot about Alvarez.
Lanidrac
Maybe he takes the QO, but I think you’re dead wrong about his free agent market. I could absolutely see him signing for 4-5 years at 15M+ per year.
Bill M
Mets are stuck with McCann’s contract. If they are able to trade him off season, they’ll probably have to eat the remainder of it
carlos15
So
joebourgeois
The Mets have the #1 prospect in baseball as their future catcher in AAA, and the sunk cost of James McCann holding the position for them till he arrives.
bhambrave
Maybe Chicago just didn’t get any good offers for Contreras. They’ll offer the QO and if he accepts, then they can try this again next year. If he refuses, they get a draft pick.
rondon
They absolutely got lame offers. The Padres were in it til they emptied the farm for Hader and Soto. The Mets? Who the heck knows. And he didn’t let himself get fleeced by the Rays who
needed a catcher. Just because we don’t know the details get get our info from the BS media doesn’t mean Hoyer didn’t do his job well.
Cosmo2
Right, that draft pick could be more valuable to them than trading Contreras, who didn’t seem to want to leave and you can’t discount that human factor.
Deleted Userrr
Sure you can discount the human factor. This is a business. Not a charity.
Cosmo2
You CAN discount the human factor but it’s not gonna help your team when the reputation factor pops up.
Deleted Userrr
There is no reputation factor. Free agents sign with the highest bidder. Full stop. And I’m not sure how letting Contreras finish out his contract year playing for a legit contender, giving him the opportunity to boost his stock by shining in the postseason and win another ring for himself, would have a negative impact on your reputation.
Cosmo2
Not every player is a big name free agent. Reputation factor counts when you’re in competition with other teams for vets on minimum or minor league contracts. You gotta think a bit more deeply about this. Most free agents aren’t big names and things besides the actual dollar amount done into play in the majority of cases. You just only HEAR and REMEMBER the big names where $$$$ is all that matters.
Deleted Userrr
Are you seriously trying to argue that Contreras or other players would choose not to sign with the Cubs specifically because they traded Contreras, all other things equal?
And why would it make a difference with guys who aren’t big name players? They like money too.
Cosmo2
You’re right about Contreras, I got a bit off track there. Still, the point is what their treatment towards him says to future players. And lesser players often don’t get multiple offers of varying money which is my point. In any case, a difference of a smaller amount can certainly get offset by personal factors like moving the family, taxes, school districts, whatever. So no, your idea that every player always takes the more money down to the penny is simply inaccurate. Consider that some players are in positions where they don’t get guarantees, and have to meet criteria to get paid. In such cases, a teams rep for looking out for players (not cutting them right before a guarantee kicks in, for example) can be big factors.
Deleted Userrr
Their treatment of him? You mean sticking him with the qualifying offer? And not letting him finish out his platform year with a team that actually has a chance of winning something?
And nothing you said means the Cubs can’t pay those lesser players a little bit more if they have to to get them signed.
CALgoldenBears
Probably same scenario for Giants’ Farhan. Should have traded Rodon. Most likely got better prospect than a comp pick. Played a bad poker hand with pocket Kings
rememberthecoop
While it was reported that Happ was a fall-back option for the Pads, I think the real reason that Willie is still a Cub is Houston. I believe they were counting on the Astros, but Click was smart and instead went for Christian Vazquez. He is having a terrific offensive season, and he’s a better defensive catcher overall than Contreras. That was a slick move but it screwed up Jed Hoyer’s plans more than the Soto deal. Again, it’s speculation, but that’s my take.
Chemo850
The guy plays the same position and has similar production if not better than Realmuto at a similar age. And Realmuto got 100 million. You’re on hardcore drugs if you actually believe he’s accepting a one year deal or is gonna make less than 80 million in his next contract.
Pads Fans
Realmuto plays exceptional defense. Contreras plays bad defense.
Chemo850
Yeah, so does the guy from the White Sox and he still got like 80 million.
Balk
I think the Giants did well to stay on pace with their plan. Last year was unexpected and great to watch but a little premature. I like how they try to stay competitive while trying to bring in a solid core to build around. Good prospects they received in return for mediocre players.
scottn59c
I don’t know, Balk, I’m pretty bummed about this deadline. I’m shocked Rodon wasn’t moved; he was one of (if not the best) pitchers to become available. No one offered anything greater than the value of a comp pick? It will be interesting to learn what offers were made and rejected if the info gets out.
Good haul for Ruf, but I am wondering what the plan is for catcher going forward. I thought trading Casali meant a move for a more reliable everyday catcher than Bart was imminent. But it never came. This team has looked like hell since the all-star break. I think they should have cashed in what they could.
Redwolves3
FIRE ZAIDI, HARRIS AND KAPLER!!!
Jean Matrac
Scott,
I was bummed as well, but only that I wanted FZ to acquire Soto. But, seeing what the Padres gave up, I can understand why FZ didn’t.
I was a little surprised Rodon wasn’t moved. But I also see that Contreras wasn’t moved either. I think that shows other GMs were being a somewhat stingy in their offers for rentals.
Some people who are so upset that Rodon wasn’t traded, would probably be complaining just as loud had FZ taken the best offer and they saw how little he brought back.
scottn59c
Good takes, Tad. The Pads were in a much better position to go all in. The Giants were better off waiting for Judge in the offseason, whom they have plenty of money to sign if they want to ink a generational player to a massive contract.
I trust Z’s ability to gauge whether an offer received is greater than a comp pick. But for all of the hooptie-do about Montas and Castillo, I figured teams would jump all over Rodon if he became available.
raisinsss
I really think JD will turn it around for you. He is one of the most unlucky hitters in mlb as measured by xwoba-woba and has very good exit velos. He also strikes me as a good teammate.
I understand why he was moved, but I think we’ll regret it in the long term.
Balk
@Scott..I was bummed too but there’s a ton of money coming off books and a chance to sign young talent to fill the void. In the next two years you’ll see a competitive team arise.
Lanidrac
Apparently the Cardinals tried to get Rodon, but they switched to Montgomery instead.
Jean Matrac
Lanidrac:
I agree. I don’t think Bader was enough to get Rodon, and they probably couldn’t find a good piece going back.
NewYorkSoxFan
Red Sox in the same boat as the Giants. I think it was a smart move for both to hold the core together and keep focused on the long term.
Camden453
Note to GMs: adding an MVP or star player to your lineup doesn’t really do much to improve your team
Phillies are .547 with Harper, .525 without him. That’s 2 more wins per 100 games
The data and history consistently shows that adding even the top bat in the league does not make much difference
Similarly with ace pitchers. It does not move the needle much
What wins is having a deep system to sustain injuries and having a strong overall lineup and pitching staff
If there are any weak links in the chain, a few holes in the lineup, adding a star doesnt do much to improve the team
Multiple good players that aren’t mega stars filling holes at 3 spots does much more than adding a mega star player
Similarly with the pitching staff. Adding 3 or 4 solid pitchers, when the staff is thin, is better than adding a top pitcher
crise
Yup: fill holes, then build mountains.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I read the first sentence and immediately paused, waiting for the canned laughter. I thought that was the start of a comedy bit, then I realized you were serious.
All I can say is you should probably recheck your data and reevaluate your opinions.
raisinsss
That’s not exactly the lesson. Great players make teams better.
And you can’t compare the two versions of the Phillies and pin that on Harper in any way. The current iteration is defensively defective with an awful bullpen.
The lesson is that no matter how good your best 2,3, or 4 players are, you won’t win anything without a very good supporting cast.
See Phillies, Nats, Angels, etc.
kje76
Can we toss the awful bullpen narrative for the Phillies?
With the exception of one-off games like last night, the Phillies bullpen has been pretty darn good since Thomson took over … and they just picked up Robertson.
The defense is mediocre, granted, though it will improve with Marsh taking half the time in CF and with Segura – 2B and Stott – SS.
VonPurpleHayes
@raisinsss I have to interject as the Phillies bullpen has been among the best since June. The “awful bullpen” stigmata is left over from the last few years and to be quite honest, Girardi deserves some of that blame, but the Phillies pen is nowhere near awful these days. They’ve been very very good.
raisinsss
Please do interject.
The conversation was comparing the pre and post Harper eras in Philly. As you’ve stated, the bullpen has been bad the last few years.
Coinciding with Bryce Harpers arrival.
So I’m glad you agree.
Javia135
@VonPurpleHayes
If your bullpen is suffering from stigmata, that is probably the problem in itself. It is hard to be an effective relief pitcher with holes in your hands and feet.
VonPurpleHayes
@Javia Haha. That was a typo and a half, huh? Obviously I meant stigma, but I like the idea of the Phillies bullpen going through some supernatural religious symbolism.
VonPurpleHayes
@raisinsss Fair enough, but I was responding to this comment ” The current iteration is defensively defective with an awful bullpen.” And the current version of the Phillies has a very strong bullpen.
Bill M
They came in to the season with an excellent bullpen on paper, with some nice off season acquisitions but they got off to a bad start. Currently, they’re far from awful
Lanidrac
Gaining 2 wins over the final 2 months in a tight playoff race is absolutely worth it!
Pads Fans
Harper has been worth 3 wins over a 162 game season and tens of millions more than he is being paid.
No team added just one superstar this trade deadline. The Padres added 3. Two batters with an OPS+ over 150 and the most dominant reliever of the past 4 seasons.
Not only that, but they will have a 160 career OPS+ player coming back from injury in a few days.
That is why betting lines have increased the Padres O/U by 5 games. That is the difference between sitting home in October and a team good enough to make a deep run in the playoffs.
Pads Fans
Harper has been worth 3 wins MORE over a 162 game season than the team without him.
Padres O/U increased by 3 wins, not 5.
A'sfaninUK
The Soto deal is very similar to the Miguel Cabrera trade when you think about it.
Lanidrac
Except Josh Bell is no Dontrelle Willis.
Faith in the Padres
Preller went all in cause he knows that he will most likely be getting QO picks for Clevinger and possibly Manaea in 2023 plus comp balance picks in 23 and 24. By the time Soto is a free agent they’ll have restocked the farm with drafts and ifa signings in 2022 (this years) 2023, 2024.
People seem to forget how quickly he restocked the farm from 2016.
Looking forward to seeing Machado Tatis Jr and Soto in the same lineup. Bell is no slouch either. Going August 18th on Joe Musgrove no hitter bobble head day.
Deleted Userr
Difference is he had top 10 draft picks to work with the first time.
Faith in the Padres
Well good thing
Wood
Campusano
Lauer
Lucchessi
Edwards
Miller
France
Maton
Wingenter
And others were all drafted outside the top 10 over the course of Prellers tenure.
Youre not going to hit on them all but they’ll find new talent in the 2022 2023 2024 drafts and ifas
Deleted Userr
Lucchesi, Maton and Wingenternaren’t exactly helping your argument there.
Faith in the Padres
Maton has given Astros good production this year esp as a 20th round draft pick and secondary metrics say hes pitched better than what shows. Idk how much you’re expecting out of a 20th rounder, but hes certainly exceeded draft expectations. Wingenter was a 17th round pick and looked like a viable pen option before getting injured requiring TJS.
Lucchessi has more than enough ability to be a back end starter when healthy. Not elite, but certainly has value in its own right.
raisinsss
Hoping he comes back as a very good lefty reliever for the postseason. Churve is nasty against lefties.
Henry Silvestre
We also have Ethan Salas C #1 Intl signing C and top 5 Intl spec coming in… the recent draft provided 3 top 10 (before the trade) projected specs..and we kept Merrill + Campusano and Rosario 3 of our top 5…also low key picked up RedSox (reclamation Gore like struggles) #11 Groome… AJP needs 1 more draft and this Intl draft to get us back to #13 (where we were at the deadline)
Just saw a tweet that AJP has traded SIXTY SIX (66) Prospects in the last 33 months… and one last thing to remember (see Profar/Mazara/Nick Martinez/Alfaro) all prior top specs in baseball associated with AJP (Ranger days).. He keeps tabs on his guys and finds ways to “reunite” with them..
bravesallrhe way
Padres don’t have the pitching that wins a world series, they will not win a world series, braves, Mets, dodgers will win the world series, or Houston. I’m hoping it’s my braves.
baseballanalytics
Except the Padres have the 6th best pitching in the MLB (4th in the NL). Ranked higher than the Mets, by the way. Nice attempt though!
kje76
Big asterisk with the Mets is that if DeGrom is fully back their rotation is much improved.
scottn59c
Padres look a lot scarier after this deadline. The matchups with the Dodgers are going to be some good ones!
Lanidrac
You don’t necessarily need elite pitching to win a World Series. It definitely helps a lot, but it’s not a requirement. The 2006 Cardinals are the best example.
Flyby
yeah definitely not elite pitching because the reigning cy young winner and number 3 in the cy young that year is definitely not elite pitcher or having the pitching whisperer dave duncan as your pitching coach is definitely the best examples.
DonOsbourne
That whole season is an outlier. Cards won 83 games and the World Series. Anthony Reyes shut the Tigers down in Game 1. No one saw any of that coming.
Pads Fans
Love to see the Padres extend Sunshine and Bell. 3/36 to a max of 3/45 should get it done for both.
Deleted Userr
“… but it’s also the sort of tough decision small-market teams (a la the Rays) have had to make to keep a contention window open for as long as possible.”
It’s the type of move that never ever works! No team has ever traded Josh Hader or someone like him in-season and won the World Series that year.
And Taylor Rogers and Dinelson Lamet don’t help keep their window open.
Lanidrac
I agree it lowers their chances this season, but if Lamet can regain both his health and previous form (albeit a big if), he would indeed be helpful in the future, plus they got 2 prospects in the deal.
Deleted Userr
1. The Brewers are (or at least should be) worried about winning now, not later.
2. They just DFA’d Lamet.
3. HOW do prospects help them win now?
Flyby
didnt Chapman get traded to the Cubs the year they won the world series? He didnt do anything with the cubs but before the trade he was along the lines of a hader.
DonOsbourne
The Cubs used Chapman like a rented mule. They should have given him two World Series Rings. He earned them.
Deleted Userr
The Yankees didn’t win the WS in 2016…
And Chapman was great for the Cubs in 2016 minus WS game 7.
Samuel
Syndergaard. is there to function as a back-end starter. He’s no longer the innings eating, blow ’em down Syndergaard. He will not be the 3rd starter in the playoffs if the Phillies get there.
Saw a scary statistic yesterday. Syndergaard has something like 24 of 25 base stealing attempts on him this year were successful.
VonPurpleHayes
@Samuel Syndergaard and deGrom could never hold runners on base. deGrom doesn’t give up many hits so it’s not as bad, but getting a single against these guys is almost an automatic runner in scoring position.
I do think Syndergaard still slots in as the 3rd pitcher in a playoff game for the Phils unless Suarez continues to really perform well, but to your point, Phillies are using him for backend depth, not as a frontline starter.
inkstainedscribe
Anthopoulos has said there’s no innings limit on Strider (who said a couple weeks ago he threw at least 150 innings between the minors and MLB last season). A six-man rotation would t surprise me, especially if Anderson and Morton continue scuffling and Odorizzi is passable.
YaySports
Strider threw 94 innings last year pen and rotation combined.
riffraff
could be why he stipulated “between the minors and the majors” and not “between bullpen and rotation”
YaySports
LoL you mean the big ole 2 innings he threw in the majors….. He didn’t come anywhere close to 150 no matter what you want to combine.
Flyby
he threw 2.1 inning in the majors and 94.0 innings between all the minor leagues according to baseball reference for 2021. so he pitched 96.1 innings all last year
Pads Fans
Between the minors and majors Spencer Strider threw 96.1 innings in 2021. 94 in the minors and 2.1 in the majors.
Camden453
I hope fans realize that most GMs don’t think like sabermetric people
Fans have been coached by sabermetric people to think things like “RBIs are team dependent”, and that raw objective data matters and nothing else
But GMs don’t actually think like that. Cashman is dealing Montgomery because he knows it’s a liability in the playoffs
Similarly many trades happen where one guy looks better on paper, but there’s an intangible problem
All the people here who think they’re being more clever by following the sabermetric ideology are really not being that clever. GMs in general do not think like that
JimmyForum
Winners-
obviously San Diego.
Philadelphia
Cincinnati
Losers-
cardinals as usual
PaulSimon
What’s so losers about the cardinals
Winners: Toronto, NYY, WSH
Loser: You
VonPurpleHayes
Cards got two SPs which they desperately needed.
mrperkins
Cards solidified their rotation and DIDN’T give away Carlson, Walker, Wynn and more for 2 1/2 years of Soto. That’s a huge win.
PaulSimon
I laugh at this hicks guy
Camden453
The only mistake the Mets made was not dealing Vientos for something. But maybe nobody wanted him
That’s a prospect you want to get rid of because the downside outweighs the upside
raisinsss
Baty has emerged as the better player and he’s now (Vientos) a little bit redundant.
But I don’t think you lose too much by waiting until the off-season for better value if that’s how it happens. Might not have been any takers for him.
There weren’t really and deals involving top 20/30 prospects where I’d have preferred vientos be moved over someone else.
yankeemanuno23
Yankees vs Padres in the World Series … that’s a great match up. Make some bets.
Canosucks
Loser Mets Just read any recap in any media
rct
Loser You Just read any of your troll posts
BigFred
You have to admire the Dodgers trade deadline plan of “Let’s ship out some productive role players and then go get Joey Gallo”. That’ll stick it to the Pads.
bassmaster
yeah they went in to full panic mode. best record, OBP and ERA w guys like CT, May, Buehler, Treinen etc. almost back will do that. Max making solid contact and kids like Outman and Vargas on the verge and contributing are just icing. Dodgers are going to be good for a very long time and will win the division.
bykoric
Folks blasting the Cubs for not giving Contreras away to the Mets (or any team) need to remember that since his debut in 2016 Wilson Contreras is (according to Fangraphs):
-4th in games played (708)
-3rd in OPS (.810)
-4th in wRC+ (117) [ahead of Posey & Relamuto]
-2nd in wOBA (.349) behind only Will Smith
-4th in fWAR (14.7)
That’s a valuable bat to have. And when pitch-framing goes away next with the robo umps, his one problem area becomes a non-issue.
You want an all-star starting catcher, you pay a premium.
raisinsss
Not sure how ABS is relevant to the 2022 trade deadline.
And he’ll be putting his exceptional skills to work keeping the Cubs out of last place.
Enjoy!
PaulSimon
You’re exactly right
Jean Matrac
bykoric:
You make good points, but Contreras is no Buster Posey. You’re comparing Contreras’ first 7 years to Posey’s career. Posey had a couple of down years later in his career due to injury. You should compare Contreras’ 117 wRC+, to Posey over his first 7 years, when he had a 136 wRC+.
Otherwise I agree with you, Contreras is very valuable with the bat. As in past years, GMs just weren’t willing to give up value for a rental, which is why Rodon wasn’t traded either.
Had the Cubs accepted the best offer for Contreras, those same fans blasting the Cubs for not trading him, would be blasting them for the return.
Pads Fans
Apparently not. No one was willing to give up what the Cubs wanted for a catcher that is bat only. A great bat, but not a good catcher.
Deleted Userrr
If they could have gotten more value than a 2nd/3rd round sandwich pick they needed to take it. That is what Contreras represents to the Cubs at this point.
Obviously neither of us knows exactly what was offered but it was a pretty major seller’s market this year.
Lanidrac
Soto is great, especially for his age, but since when is he a better pure hitter than Albert Pujols (in his prime)? Even such comparisons to Miguel Cabrera, Mike Trout, and Paul Goldschmidt are questionable at this point in Soto’s career.
Jean Matrac
I don’t think anyone is saying he’s better than Pujols was. But, how about almost as good? And, had Pujols been traded in his 5th year, the talk would have been just as extreme for him as it is now for Soto.
Compare Soto to the guys you named over their first 5 full seasons:
Soto 160 OPS+, 155 wRC+
Pujols 167 OPS+, 166 wRC+
Cabrera 144 OPS+, 140 wRC+
Trout 173 OPS+, 170 wRC+
Goldschmidt 149 OPS+, 146 wRC+
Clearly, Soto is comparable to the guys you listed.
Lanidrac
The article claims Soto is the best pure hitter since Barry Bonds. That implies he’s better than Pujols, which is absolutely not true.
We’re not talking about their first 5 seasons (aside from Soto himself) but the kind of hitters they were in their primes. Also, we’re talking about how good of “pure hitters” they are, and Soto is at a disadvantage compared to all the names I listed except maybe Trout in contact hitting ability.
Jean Matrac
Where does it say that? I apparently missed it in my initial read, but still couldn’t find that claim when I went back over it?
Even if one writer said that, I don’t believe that’s anywhere close to a consensus opinion.
Pads Fans
So lets come back in 4 or 5 years and revisit this when Soto is in his prime. He is 23 now.
Cosmo2
This is Soto’s prime right now. The idea that a player can’t park at his age is a ridiculous myth, plenty of players do. He’s not going to continue to get better and better, this is his prime.
Deleted Userrr
I mean, anything can happen, but generally speaking position players don’t start to decline until they hit 30.
Cosmo2
You are dead wrong about that. Most players have a maximum of a five year peak, no matter when the peak starts. And I’m not even predicting decline here. I’m just saying this is his peak. The idea that he’s expected to get better over the next few years is absurd. TONS of players peak in their early twenties. Look at Lindor; still very good but his PEAK was back when.
Deleted Userrr
No data to back that up. He won’t be the Padres’ problem 3 years from now anyway.
DonOsbourne
Overall I give the Cardinals a B for this deadline.
I’m happy they didn’t empty the farm for Soto.
I’m happy they acquired two starting pitchers and I’m happy with who those pitchers turned out to be.
Getting Allen from the A’s could be sneaky great value.
Not thrilled with giving up Bader and Oviedo. I think the exchanged value was appropriate, but I hate trading a CF when they are so hard to come by. And I would have offered any of or some combination of Hicks, Reyes, Gallegos, and /or Woodford before trading Oviedo.
vamosrojos
Yankees probably should have paid up for Castillo.
JackStrawb
Interesting, that the Padres gave up 30 years of player control for (primarily) a 5-6 win DH who, if you actually look at their numbers, is nowhere near Ted Williams.
Soto is Bryce Harper if you consider Harper since the end of the 2015 season; so not including his MVP year. Add 20 walks a year and subtract a little defense. That’s Juan Soto and that’s the correct interpretation of his numbers in a contemporary context.
Acc to fg, their moves have increased the Padres chances of winning the WS by 3.5%. It will also improve a little in 2023-24, but factor in the gross decline in their chances in 2025-2028 and it doesn’t look like a positive deadline, never mind the absurd and obvious overpay.
Pads Fans
RF.
Similar Batters through age 22
Mike Trout (956.3)
Frank Robinson (955.8)
Bryce Harper (944.3)
Miguel Cabrera (943.8)
Mickey Mantle (927.9)
2 HOF and 3 Future HOF. Pretty good company.
Adding Soto, Bell, and Hader increased Padres O/U by 3 wins with 56 games to go. That is a HUGE difference.
WTH do the Padres care about 2025-2028 when their window to win was only through 2023 before getting Soto. With Soto you can expect them to continue to go all in for just one more season before having to reload.
JackStrawb
DeRosa’s bafflement on MLB dot et cetera nails the Mets deadline foolishness. Darin Ruf for JD Davis, two legitimate prospects, and Szapucki? Are you kidding me? Davis is having a lousy year but from 2019-2021 he outhit guys like Bryant and Donaldson. The idea that you’d have to throw in 3 prospects to get a 35 y0 antique like Ruf having a below replacement level season is surreal.
Teams are salivating at the idea of dealing with the Mets this offseason. Everyone the Mets picked up was a marginal talent (the best was Givens, who isn’t as good as Holderman but who had a freak ERA–otherwise it was platoon DHs and the like), typically available for nothing but money, nothing but salary relief, but they gave away actual prospects and a legitimate reliever. Incredible. Well, we know Cohen doesn’t know any better. And now we know Eppler learned nothing from being one of the worst GMs in the game, and from his resulting firing.
raisinsss
If we’re calling the two low level nobodies the Mets gave up for Ruf “legitimate prospects,” whatever that means, how many “legitimate prospects” are in the Mets organization right now? 100? 150?
Where did these two legitimate prospects rank among all the legitimate prospects?
Do you even know their names without looking at the trade again?
Jal179
Big mistake by Zaidi to not deal Rodon.
Parkside12345
And SD getting Soto, bell , Hader and that other dude think it was Drury but all I kept hearing is how SD just leveled the field then got swept out scored 20 / 4 dodgers are just to good