The Mariners are in active trade discussions as today’s 5pm CT deadline to set rosters prior to next month’s Rule 5 Draft looms, and they’re showing a willingness to move left fielder/designated hitter Jesse Winker, reports Jon Morosi of MLB.com (via Twitter). As has been expected for some time now, the M’s have also discussed potential trades involving fifth starter candidates Chris Flexen and Marco Gonzales, Morosi further adds, though the team has not yet engaged in a scenario where Winker and one of those pitchers would be moved in the same package.
Moving on from Winker would be selling low on a player whom the Mariners acquired last offseason, hoping at the time that Winker could be a key middle-of-the-lineup fixture. In the two seasons prior to that trade, Winker was one of the game’s three best hitters against right-handed pitching, trailing only Juan Soto and Bryce Harper in terms of wRC+. He posted a Herculean .321/.417/.619 batting line in 509 plate appearances against right-handed pitching, and while his production against fellow lefties was nowhere near that level, he still walked at a 12% clip against them, resulting in a .314 OBP. His .199 average and .338 slugging against lefties were dismal, but at the very least, Winker could get on base at a near-average clip in when in disadvantageous platoon matchups.
What followed in 2022, however, was the worst season of Winker’s career by nearly any measure. He did walk at a career-best 15.4% clip as a Mariner, but the 29-year-old’s .219/.344/.344 batting line was generally underwhelming — especially considering he was acquired in hopes of providing some left-handed power to the lineup. Winker’s .125 ISO (slugging percentage minus batting average) was the lowest mark of his career. And, while he’s never been considered a plus defender in the outfield, Winker’s defensive ratings across the board in 2022 were career-worsts (-16 Defensive Runs Saved, -7.2 Ultimate Zone Rating, -10 Outs Above Average).
Poor 2022 season notwithstanding, Winker has a strong track record at the plate and could be viewed by other clubs as a decent candidate to rebound. In his five seasons with the Reds, dating back to his 2017 debut, Winker turned in a collective .288/.385/.504 batting line — about 32% better than the average hitter after weighting for his home park and league.
Winker is also rather affordable. He’s entering what would have been his final arbitration season but is already signed for $8.25MM, having agreed to a two-year, $14.5MM contract with the Mariners just last season. If he’s able to approach anything close to his Reds form in 2023, that’ll be an eminently reasonable price to pay.
It bears mentioning that there could be other factors at play as the Mariners field interest in Winker. In an October appearance on 710 AM Seattle Sports’ Brock and Salk Show, Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times laid out, in detail, the manner in which Winker fell out of favor within the Mariners clubhouse over the course of the season. (Mike Axisa of CBS Sports transcribed the meat of Divish’s segment, for those interested in the full scope of the comments.) Add in the fact that president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto has already spoken publicly about his desire to add at least one, if not two outfielders to his team this winter, and there’s plenty of reason to believe the Mariners’ outfield mix will look different in 2023 (though AL Rookie of the Year Julio Rodriguez is an obvious lock to return).
Of course, the trade that brought Winker to Seattle wasn’t all bad — far from it. In order to acquire Winker, Seattle gave up pitching prospect Brandon Williamson, outfielder Jake Fraley and righty Justin Dunn and took on a notable portion of a contract the Reds were seeking to escape … that of Eugenio Suarez. It’s a move the Mariners may not have made had they believed Suarez was beyond hope after a rough 2020-21 showing in Cincinnati, but he bounced back to an even greater extent than most optimists could’ve forecast.
After hitting .199 /.293/.440 with the Reds in 2020-21, Suarez logged a resurgent .236/.332/.459 batting line with 31 home runs, 24 doubles, a pair of triples and roughly average defense at the hot corner. Both Baseball-Reference and FanGraphs pegged his 2022 season around four wins above replacement, and Suarez remains signed for another two years and $24MM (plus a club option for the 2025 campaign).
Trade him back to the Reds for Moustakas!
This isn’t a bad idea actually.
It is for the Mariners. Where would the M’s play Moustakas and why would they want to take on his salary? We have no room for him and Dipoto has already expressed a desire to have a rotating DH rather than a dedicated one. Plus, Winker still has five times the value Moustakas does.
Winker has zero times the value of anyone, if the rest of the team wants him gone.
Other local reporters suggested Divish’s report was overblown. I got the sense that, yeah, they were annoyed with him but it wasn’t the end of the world. Most of it had to do with him not putting in a ton of work in the gym or on the field before games, not so much that he is a bad guy or a clubhouse distraction. It’s also been said that lack of putting in work was related to nagging injuries he had all season.
No way the Dodgers do that. They might pass out from laughing though.
From the Mariners standpoint, that’s a terrible idea.
100%
Yes, it is a bad idea, actually.
In fact, it’s ridiculous from a Mariner perspective.
Winker is gonna produce this year they ought to keep him.
He already had his salary locked in last year. He showed his hand to every other MLB team though. You don’t want this guy on anything other than a 1 year deal.
Reds should trade a very low level prospect for Winker. Ms not taken’ Moose.
Absolutely
Got get him Tigers. Need to get some players on base
Yankees get him
Fraham,
His defense is a disaster. Can’t see him patrolling the spacious left field at Yankee Stadium.
I’m hearing Myles Straw and Zach Plesac for Todd Winker and Matt Pesto
Maybe a rebuilding team can get him like the Cubs, or Tigers.
Cubs don’t need OF help. Their system is stockpiled with capable OFers
If the team is rebuilding,why would they trade for a one-year player?
1. Taking on salary clears salary for Mariners to sign someone else. Mariners would send someone along for taking his salary. Something like 8 mill.
2. 1 year gamble he turns into his old self and they can sell him at trade deadline.
Someone of Winker’s talents should definitely be a target for rebuilding teams. Not only do you get prospects for taking his 8 mill salary but if he rebounds you get to trade him for more.
Dipoto has already stated they wouldn’t just give Winker away and I believe him. Winker signed the extension mid-season. I sincerely doubt things got so bad from July to October that we would now add a prospect to get out from under a 1 year deal.
Then keep him
He doesn’t have a lot of value as it stands right now.
Teams aren’t just going to help the Mariners out by taking a dude who floundered last season and give up something of value to do so.
Unless someone wants to take a gamble on Winker then they don’t have to send anybody with him. But his trade value is very low. Worth the risk for some franchises with his track record. Especially teams that still play in a band box with a short RF porch.
Sure, if the Cubs are getting prospects PLUS Winker, then he is probably worth $8.5M. But that’s not what Freshwind implied.
I wouldn’t expect teams to pay big and I don’t think I’ve really seen it suggested that they would do so. Keeping him is my preference. I fully expect a better season from him. I only want to trade him if they have a clear upgrade lined up.
Hopefully, the White Sox set their sights higher and grab a star OF or two.
This is a Rick Hahn kinda move though.
I’m sure they’ll set their sights higher but there are no star OFs in free agency, unless you consider Nimmo a star, and I doubt the Sox have the prospects to acquire one via trade.
Conforto?
I guess if you consider him a star but he’s a giant question mark and was always more “good” than “great” to me. I think his placement on the top 50 list is accurate and signifies how much shine he’s lost after a down year and then an entire season missed.
He shouldn’t even be in the top 50
Red Sox need OBP players like Winker and Nimmo very badly
Looks like someone the Braves would be interested in, if they didn’t already have two defensively challenged offensively flawed left fielders.
no value!
Gonzales seems pretty serviceable…why shop him Mariners fans?
Lack of strikeouts leaves him prone to getting shelled more frequently than you’d like. He’s the most frustrating 6 innings you’ll ever watch.
He’s just not that good and there’s no reason to write his name down in Sharpie when he’s nothing more than a 5th starter.
M’s have a lot of pitching depth. Currently have 6 SP, with at 2 highly touted prospect that will be ready this year in Hancock and Dollard.
Because the M’s are going after Sengal and have a LONNNNG list of youngsters on the verge of graduating to the show. Loved Marco and what he’s brought to this team through the “step back” process, but there are potential higher quality arms available. M’s have a chance to have one of the best rotations in all of baseball, If not THE BEST!
Cardinals? Maybe oneill and liberatore for winker and flexen?
I’d rather keep O’Neill. He seems injury-prone, but he’s a much better defender. Winker is probably a DH at this point, which St. Louis doesn’t totally need. Winker could be a solid LH power bat though, if he bounces back.
Cards should do that.
lol please please Cardinals don’t do that.
Ok, just Winker for Liberatore then..haha.
Cards are looking to reduce their number of OFs. Getting crowded.
He’d essentially be a DH only. Emergency OF in case of injury.
Cardinals ditch guys with attitude problems; they aren’t going to add a DH only type who’ll disrupt the clubhouse.
oneill and liberatore for winker and flexen?
=============================
Not close.
My thought is winker could dh, 4th outfielder, probable bounce back candidate who mashes righties when right. Flexen has good stuff as a 4th or 5th starter. Oneill, who is a better fielder and probably better hitter than winker, just csnt stay healthy and the cards seem like they are ready to move on, give burelson or even walker a chance. I’ve seen liberatore pitch both in the bigs and in the minors and he has excellent potential but just has not put it together. I think it would be a pretty even trade for both. Could it end up being lopsided for either team, sure. But seeing how the cards are looking to trade oneill and could use a viable proven starter(flexen) and the Mariners could use a power hitting outfielder, they line up pretty well
@bighiggy…problem is that the cardinals rotation is full and actually overflowing with pitchers just like Flexen…the cardinals need a top tier pitcher
O’Neill, imo, is way more valuable than Winker. O’Neill had a bWAR of 6.3 in 2021, which is more than Winker’s career WAR. and he has two years left, and is $4M cheaper than Winker.
Why not just trade O’Neill for Gonzo and reverse the original trade?
Well, fans from seven teams want Winker and Jerry hasn’t made a trade recently. Seems like a done deal.
Preller and Mariners are old trading partners. Padres need LF (unless Profar returns) and could use a 5th starter even so the needs and prior trade history match up with Padres.
I don’t know that I’m excited about Winker in LF after 2022 though.
Padres do need a DH and Winker can start occasionally in LF against RHP.
Must be the White Sox calling offer sheets.
Could see Rangers with minor interest as a DH part time OF? Salary is not too bad and would not hamper pitching pursuits.
Winker, Flexen and Crawford to the Dodgers for Lux and May.
Dodgers would never do this. Lux’s value is too high. He’s a legitimate starter and is cheaper than Crawford.
Not remotely close.
Winker for Kolten Wong
But Kolten Wong actually has value. How does this trade benefit MIL in any way?
Wong is expensive for what he provides and Milwaukee was reported to be on the fence about exercising his option. It was stated that if they did so, they would be open to moving him.
Since Wong had his option picked up by MKE, does that mean they’re on the hook for the $2 mil they would have owed if they bought him out, or would the entire $10 mil go to Seattle (assuming it’s a straight up deal with no cash being included)?
If they have to pay the $2 mil, I’m not sure MKE does it. They’d technically be adding to the payroll, for a player who plays the same spots as Yelich.
I believe the $2M is void since it was a buyout fee. I believe it’s just a straight up $10M salary.
I’m down for that. Makes sense for both sides, I feel like.
Tigers get him for Willi Castro and clemens
Guarantee the M’s have no interest in either Castro or Clemens
Send him to Rockies for CJ Cron, move Ty to 2nd base. Done and done. Rockies desperately need lefties who can hit RHP and some OBP, Mariners need another power source in that lineup. Same exact salary.
Ty has gained too much weight to play 2B anymore.
Especially with the shift changes this year. No way he should be at 2B. Besides, he’s a very good defender at 1B.
If the idea would be to use Cron as the DH most of the time, I’m all for that deal.
Winker for a non roster player(s). Why else would he be the topic this time of year, unless they need the 40 man spot.
Apparently he didn’t fit in the clubhouse very well, and they need to get rid of him (of course, he didn’t play well either). They likely will try and fill one of their needs (a corner OF, maybe a 2B) with a trade. His salary isn’t enough to pay for a significant free agent.
I think there is more to Jesse Winker than we have seen so far.
I am still of the opinion that a number of players will bounce back for a good year in 2023. Julio’s ROY will help inspire and motivate the whole team.
And I won’t care if they don’t come up with any new high-priced hitters at all this off-season.
And as far as Winker being in bad with the rest of the clubhouse, I don’t believe every snarky rumor I hear, regardless of who may have “reported” it.
Winker looked bad last year but with his track record and going into his final season before free agency, I think he’s a good bet to rebound. For them to sell low right now leads me to believe that there’s “something” that went on behind the scenes that frustrated them. How minor or major that thing was remains to be seen.
Just because they’re shopping him around doesn’t mean they’re trading him, Mekia. It’s pretty much already been confirmed what the issues were and to what level. I doubt they’ll just sell low on him, I think they need a legitimate return to move him. If nobody wants to gamble on him, they’ll likely keep him.
Doesn’t Dipoto have a direct line to Farhan? Im sure the Giants need Winkler
I could see ATL/AA on this, buying low on a COF bat that would be a presumed upgrade over Rosario/Ozuna (lol) in LF, hitting RHP well (team does really well vs. LHP), and hoping he could find that offense he had at Great American Ballpark that plays similarly to Truist.
Only way that would happen in my opinion is if Ozuna were to go back to the Mariners. In my opinion the Braves have to move Ozuna in order to add an outfield bat. If not than their budget money etc. is all going have to be used to fill the shortstop position.
I don’t think anyway with Atlanta strong core of players that they don’t spend or trade for a solid both sides of the ball shortstop.
This has Padres written all over it. I can see the Padres pulling a trade for Winkler and one of the two starters mentioned above.
Mariners won’t want prospects. They’ll want established major league players, either corner OF (of which the Padres have none to spare) or a 2B. I could see the Mariners being all over Cronenberg, although obviously Winker wouldn’t be near enough in that case.
No, they would probably want prospects. They are trying to clear 40 man roster spots right now. I don’t think they are expecting to get their starting mid infielder or corner OF in a Winker trade. They need 40 man roster space prior to rule 5 draft to protect Perez, Marlowe, and probably Kuhn.
bounce back DH at $8.5M? cant think of anyone who would want this.
Thanks. I’ve been reading all the Seattle fans (ridiculous) trade proposals, and all I could think was that Winker might not even be tradable. He had a horrible DRS of -16, in only 972 IPs, a .688 OPS, pretty much can’t hit lefties, and earns a decent salary.
If this was fantasy BB, maybe I’d roll with a 20th round pick. But in a league where fielding and salary counts, I wouldn’t pick him off of waivers at $8.5M.
Aj Preller line 1
Seems unlikely most contenders would pursue a guy with a rep like that. I bet he ends up on a more desperate team like the Marlins, Tigers, Reds (again!), Rockies, Royals, etc.
Yeah this is gonna be a “trade for him, hope he rebounds, then flip him at the deadline” type deal.
Pls trade Winker
I’d rather have Winker over Yaz in SF, defense be damned.
With Winker’s size he can also play some first base where Yaz at 5’10” isn’t a good fit there.
Given Winker’s history of success at the plate one down year on a new team and league can be expected. He’s a great buy low candidate and the Mariners should have no problem finding a taker.
Padres send Tirso Ornelas and Matt Waldron for Winker in a buy low move.
I like him for the padres alot. if he bounces back halfway between his reds years and last year and Sea throws in flexen
I like him for the padres alot. if he bounces back halfway between his reds years and last year and Jr comes back and is Jr, that SD lineup is suddenly very deep and very good. Sea throws in Flexen or even gonzo and I would be willing to part with campy. preller doesn’t seem to be sold on campy anyway. might have to figure out how to shed some salary somewhere though.
Put him in front of that giant wall in Boston. Great low pressure place for Winker to rebound
I think that is very good idea
Great low pressure place
======================
Yup, that’s Boston for you. Very low-key, low-pressure place to play.
People need to keep in mind that the Mariners are trying to clear 40 man roster spots with trades like this. They are going to be asking for prospects that do not need to be added to the 40 man this offseason.
You also have to keep in mind that with his bad season with the bat combined with defense that was plain awful, Winker is not worth much. Some team will be taking a flyer on him as a platoon DH hoping he can rebound with the bat against RHP.
I count 36 currently on the Mariners 40 man. Mariners do NOT want low level prospects.
They still need to add probably 3 players to protect from rule 5. I assume Perez, Marlowe and Kuhn get added..
@Padsfans
Did you not realize that you completely contradicted yourself by offering 2 padres prospects that have to be on the 40 man?
Crazy that our outfield was so promising and now we need Depth and pieces!!
Going into the season last year it felt like the strength of the team now we look to Upgrade it!
Could they trade him to TBR if they eat some of the money?
I believe acquiring Winker last offseason was wishful thinking, as management didn’t expect him to struggle to overcome the park’s right field wall. Including the deadening balls into the situation, the margins for success slimmed when Winker battled injuries.
I agree that a trade would be in everyone’s interest. His price, I’m less certain of the reality. As for why other teams should consider Winker: the cost shouldn’t be restrictively weighed to potential gains.
Finding a ballpark that allows Winker to utilize his pull power is most important to reviving his once-bright career. I’m unaware of all the parks that boost lefty power figures, besides Yankee Field. I suspect Tropicana may only lean towards lefties as their left field is unfair. I suspect an NL team would be best.
Terrible defender, Poor work ethic. Doesn’t care. Looks like its the White Sox. (Joel Goodson Voice)
Blue Jays need a lefty bat. Winker is a good risk for a rebound. Several teams will be in on him…
For those that have watched him regularly, is his defense really as bad as it looks on paper?
what if the M’s throw in an autographed Ichiro bat with that bag o’balls?
Dom Smith for Jessie Winker straight up. I really think Winker is a National League player. Mariners need a 1st baseman (can move Ty France to a different position)
Now that the DH position is in both Leagues- he is equally an AL and NL player.
The Mariners NEED a 2B not a 1B. INF defense will be a priority now that the shift rules are changing. It doesn’t make a bit of sense to ask Ty France to play 2B or 3B especially this year. Not when they can simply fill the need at 2B via trade or FA.
Tbh imo his (Winker) best fit is on the team that just traded him to Seattle! GA Ball Park is the most hitter friendly park in MLB. If Winker could play a PT role in the OF next year its the Reds park. Maybe the dimensions at Petco will cover up his deficiencies? But….
In Seattle his routes were terrible, he looked oafish, clumsy and almost un-athletic at times. He didn’t have a particularly strong arm and I can’t remember another OF who ‘lost a ball’ in the air as many times as he did. ……..DH it is!!!
I know that this article is focusing on Winker’s past and future relationship with Seattle but since Eugenio Suarez’s name was also mentioned I want to focus on him instead. Besides I’m bored of the Winker debate! That’s so 4 weeks ago!
I know the defensive stats say Eugenio Suarez had an “average year” defensively but the majority of Mariners fans will tell you he was anything but average at the hot corner. His defense was
I know that this article is focusing on Winker’s past and future relationship with Seattle but since Eugenio Suarez’s name was also mentioned I want to focus on him instead. Besides I’m bored of the Winker debate! That’s so 4 weeks ago!
I know the defensive stats say Eugenio Suarez had an “average year” defensively but the majority of Mariners fans will tell you his glove was anything but average at the hot corner. Most will tell you he was really good at 3B and that he was better than expected in 2022. He put in the extra defensive work every day with infield guru Perry Hill and it absolutely paid off.
He was a rock on the field playing almost every day up until his finger injury. He carried our lineup for long stretches of the season including being the teams best hitter in the playoffs. He had a .350 BA, a HR, 4 XBH, 5 RBI’s, 5 Runs scored and 7 Hits over the 5 games vs TOR and HOU. He faced Manoah, Gausman, Verlander, F Valdez and McCullers. Despite fracturing his right middle finger on Sept 17!
I have zero firsthand knowledge of his clubhouse chemistry but from what I’ve read (and seen) he quickly became a much beloved team leader inside the clubhouse. I cannot wait to see what he does in an improved 2023 lineup.
This has AJ Preller written all over it..
I think the Ms should approach Colorado with the following deal: Chris Flexen plus one of the AA stud pitchers (preferably Bryce Miller) plus one of the LH hitting OF prospects like Jonatan Clase, for Brendan Rodgers and Ryan Rolison or PJ Poulin. Then include Winker if they’ll send both pitching prospects. Winker will get a fresh start on a team that needs LH power, and the Ms get a 2B and lottery ticket(s) to LH bullpen help. Flexen should be a solid add to the Rockies staff, with a solid prospect very close to helping a ML staff as well.
Padres can take on him for John Taylor, and his contract paid in full by M’s.
Winker has had two off season surgeries. He’s probably not going anywhere till people see him in spring training to make sure he’s good to go. Winker did appear to learn/fine tune the art of taking a walk last year. He really is worth taking a flyer on. If his bat returns, it could be a great year for him!! % is, he’s a trade deadline deal waiting to happen.