Dec. 16: The Phillies have announced the signing.
Dec. 6: One day after landing Trea Turner on a stunning 11-year contract, the Phillies have bolstered their rotation by agreeing to a four-year deal with free-agent right-hander Taijuan Walker, Jon Heyman of the New York Post reports (Twitter links). MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo adds that Walker, a client of the Boras Corporation, will be guaranteed $72MM on the deal.
Walker, 30, steps into a deep and talented rotation headlined by co-aces Zack Wheeler and Aaron Nola. He’ll join lefty Ranger Suarez in the third and fourth spots of a rotation whose fifth starter has yet to be determined. Philadelphia president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski said earlier this offseason that he aimed to sign one veteran starter and leave a starting job open for one of the Phillies’ many in-house options — a list that currently includes left-hander Bailey Falter and top prospects Andrew Painter, Mick Abel and Griff McGarry.
The Phils could yet add some further depth, but based on Dombrowski’s earlier comments and the fact that they’ve committed a combined $372MM to Turner and Walker in the past day, it seems unlikely that another high-profile addition is in store. In the wake of agreeing to terms with Turner, Dombrowski voiced a desire to add a mid-rotation arm and to add a back-end reliever — ideally without signing a free agent who’d turned down a qualifying offer. The terms of Walker’s four-year deal have exceeded even the most bullish of expectations, but he nevertheless checks the former of those two boxes, ostensibly setting the stage for the Phillies to shift their sights to the bullpen market.
Walker, a once-elite pitching prospect who pitched just 14 innings from 2017-18 due to shoulder surgery and Tommy John surgery, has quickly shaken the “injury-prone” label once associated with his name. Since signing a one-year deal to return to the Mariners in advance of the 2020 season, the 6’4″, 235-pound righty has made a nearly full slate of starts: 11 games in the 60-game 2020 season followed by consecutive seasons of 29 starts with the Mets in 2021-22.
Along the way, Walker has pitched to a 3.80 ERA with a 21.5% strikeout rate, a 7.8% walk rate and 43.4% ground-ball rate in a total of 369 2/3 innings. While he’s hardly a flamethrower, Walker sits 93-94 mph with his four-seamer and complements that heater with a four-pitch mix of secondary offerings: splitter, sinker, slider and a more seldom-used curveball. He’s only averaged a bit more than 5 1/3 innings per start in recent years, but some of that could well be a function of the Mets preferring to keep him healthy.
While many teams are reluctant to allow starters to turn a lineup over three times, Walker’s third-time-through-the-order splits are actually fairly strong. Since 2020, when facing an opponent for the third time in a game, Walker has yielded only a .232/.303/.391 batting line. That translates to a .303 wOBA that’s tied with one of his new rotation-mates, Nola, for 37th among 132 starting pitchers in that three-year period.
Solid as Walker’s past few seasons have been, the $72MM guarantee he secured on his new contract remains a fairly eye-popping number. It’s been a bull market for starting pitchers thus far, to say the least, but an $18MM annual value over a four-year term represents a seismic step forward in the market for mid-rotation arms. Walker undoubtedly benefited from his relative youth and a lack of a qualifying offer, but guarantees of this size for a pitcher of this caliber, while not unprecedented, are quite rare. Moreover, while we’ve seen starters of this ilk land guarantees in this range in the past — the Royals signed Ian Kennedy for $70MM, and the Marlins inked Wei-Yin Chen for $80MM — they’ve typically been spread out over a five-year term. Precedent for an AAV of this magnitude, over a relatively long-term deal, for this caliber of pitcher is scarce.
None of that is a knock on Walker, who’s pitched well in his three years since returning from that pair of seasons lost to injury. And, if Walker can continue to pitch at a pace commensurate with his 2022 output in particular, he’ll end up justifying the deal. That said, he’s reached 150 innings only four times in his Major League career and only twice logged a sub-4.00 ERA in a 162-game campaign, so expecting a replica of his 2022 output — particularly in light of a shaky batted-ball profile — would be quite optimistic.
The Phillies, however, needed some stability with Kyle Gibson, Zach Eflin and Noah Syndergaard all reaching free agency, and the prices for arms this winter have been strong. Eflin, for instance, landed a $13.33MM AAV in a three-year deal with the low-budget Rays of all teams, and did so on the heels of a season in which he pitched just 75 2/3 innings. Gibson, who turned 35 in October and yielded a 5.05 ERA in 31 starts for the Phillies, still secured a $10MM guarantee on a one-year deal in Baltimore. The price of average-or-better innings — and the price for pitchers who can reliably provide those innings — looks to have increased in the early stages of the newly brokered 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement.
From a payroll vantage point, adding Walker will boost the Phillies to a projected $223.5MM in bottom-line payroll next year, per Roster Resource (assuming an even distribution of the salaries). Moreover, Walker’s $18MM AAV will push the Phillies into luxury-tax territory for what’ll now be a second straight season. They currently project at $235MM, just $2MM north of the $233MM barrier, but it seems fair to expect further additions will be on the horizon — in the bullpen at the very least. As a second-time offender, the Phils will pay a 30% overage on the first $20MM by which they exceed that $233MM line, and they’ll be on the hook for a 42.5% penalty for any overages between $20-40MM.
That seems to matter little to owner John Middleton, who just saw his Phillies fall to the World Series champion Astros in a competitive six-game affair. With Nola set to become a free agent next winter, the 2023 campaign could be the last time he and Wheeler comprise the dynamic one-two punch atop the Philadelphia rotation. Wheeler’s contract is up after the 2024 season, and J.T. Realmuto will turn 32 before Opening Day 2023. The time to win in Philadelphia is now, and in very on-brand fashion, their aggressive owner and similarly aggressive president of baseball operations are making high-priced, straightforward upgrades via the free-agent market to bolster the franchise’s hopes while this elite core is still together and still in its prime.
Francys01
Great signing by the Phillies.
Bk11235 2
Why? You are paying 18 mill a year for 4 years for a guy that has half a good season
LosPobres1904
Yeah
Brixton
Hes pitched in 10 seasons and has an ERA under 4 for his career lol. Hes not gonna carry them to the World Series himself, but they paid like 20M between Eflin, Gibson, and Snydergaard to be alright last year. This is an upgrade, plus no QO means no picks given up
mikemcsaudi
Who cares any the picks. The Phillies draft like I shoot dates
Poster formerly known as . . .
Shoot dates?
Catuli Carl
Craigslist killer ^^^
richardc
Like you shoot dates!?!
Sooo, this is the platform that you chose to confess your sins to??
Wtf is wrong with people these days…(That is rhetorical, I’m aware the answer is a heck of alot)
Buuba ho tep
He means the dates that you eat
Buuba ho tep
He means the eatable fruit dates
This one belongs to the Reds
At these prices I could give them an inning or two a year for the minimum.
YourDreamGM
Other teams will likely find similar production for less money. Phillies gave up another chance to stay under tax.
Dustyslambchops23
What other similar production are you getting for less ?
OIC2021
In 10 years , he’s won 54 games and lost 50 games.
$25 hot dogs and $40 beers are coming.
Welcome to where Santa got booed
Shameful
Walk Off IBB
Are you seriously, in the year two thousand and twenty-two, using pitcher wins/losses as if they’re a meaningful stat?
And by the way, Santa deserved it.
YourDreamGM
Anderson Eflin Boyd are good bets and my favorites so far. Heaney is interesting. Gibson wasn’t one of my favs but an option. I am interested in what the Pirates do with Velasquez. Many options still available.
NWYanksfan
The tax. Who cares about the tax? For me, it’s the draft picks.
Prospectnvstr
Pitcher wins are still relevant. The said pitcher pitched well enough to give his team a good chance of winning. Whether the offense scored enough to win or if the bullpen did their job is another matter.
lemonlyman
Who as a fan is rooting to stay under the luxury tax instead of signing someone and going over? Hilarious how many people are calling this an overpay, then turn around and say $68MM over 4 for Taillon a good deal. The market decides the price, and I’ll take Walker over the other mid tier arms who are riddled with injury history.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“Why? You are paying 18 mill a year for 4 years for a guy that has half a good season”
From the article above:
“Since signing a one-year deal to return to the Mariners in advance of the 2020 season, the 6’4″, 235-pound righty has made a nearly full slate of starts: 11 games in the 60-game 2020 season followed by consecutive seasons of 29 starts with the Mets in 2021-22.
“Along the way, Walker has pitched to a 3.80 ERA with a 21.5% strikeout rate, a 7.8% walk rate and 43.4% ground-ball rate in a total of 369 2/3 innings. . . .
“While many teams are reluctant to allow starters to turn a lineup over three times, Walker’s third-time-through-the-order splits are actually quite strong. Since 2020, when facing an opponent for a third time in a game, Walker has yielded only a .232/.303/.391 batting line. That translates to a .303 wOBA that’s tied with one of his new rotation-mates, Nola, for 37th among 132 starting pitchers in that three-year period.”
bryan c
He means that Walker has mightily struggled in the second half of the last two years. Last year better than 2021 where his second half ERA was north of 7. He is a fly ball pitcher now in a bandbox with a propensity to lose stamina throughout the year. Amazingly good April to June and then falls off a cliff after the break. Sometimes just eyeballing stats doesn’t tell the whole tale
lemonlyman
I have a feeling the Phillies front office didn’t just eyeball him and decide hey there are other similar pitchers on the market so let’s overpay this one just because. They’ve clearly identified what they think his issues have been and feel that Caleb Cotham and crew can fix what went wrong.
bryan c
Ok. That’s the Phillies MO. No one. Literally no one was connected to him and they paid him more than Taillon. This is too darn funny. Enjoy!
reflect
A second half decline is normal for a player returning from a major injury. Stamina doesn’t come back overnight.
It’s unlikely he keeps repeating those declines.
David Kupsick
They know more than we do
Deadguy
It’s a good signing simply because they are taking away further from the Mets rotation that has only added Verlander thus far and lost Degrom and now Walker, and Bassett might follow? Plus with 3 of there own pitchers reaching free agency Walker is an upgrade over any of those three?
YourDreamGM
@Hippyripper For 72 million can the Mets not find similar production? They could have had him for 1 year 20 million. This hasn’t taken anything away from them.
bryan c
So you think the Mets are done adding? LOL. Walker was awful in the second half of each of the last two years and is a fly ball pitcher in a little league park now. Not sure the Mets are quaking over this one. There is a reason they weren’t even linked to him
User 4245925809
Walker has had few bigger fans than I his entire career, but 18m aav and 4y total is just to much.
GoogleMe
I agree. He has been pretty average for his career. A deal closer to Tyler Anderson’s deal seems more inline.
fre5hwind
Definitely one of the more low-key under the radar type player.
FSF
I agree with you. If he’s turned the corner, then this will be not only a huge bargain but a pivotal arm in that starting rotation. If not, as long as he stays generally healthy, you have a reliable middle of the rotation young starter. Nothing wrong with that and you can never have too many.,
ham77
Great signing but even more important is I got this pick correct in the FA contest
norcalblue
Absurd signing
Edp007
I posted this on Price thread few minutes ago lol
Great staff , great off-season for Phillies
Yankee Clipper
Nice job Phillies. As long as this isn’t another spasm by Heyman.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The salaries players are signing for this offseason are insane! I could see a one year deal at $18M but 4 years at $18M per year for Taijuan Walker…are you serious? I was thinking his ceiling was 3/$45M. What a great year for players to be hitting free agency, especially pitchers. I wonder if Tyler Anderson already regrets his 3/$39M deal with the Angels. If Walker can get $72M, you’d think Anderson could have pulled in at least $50M himself. Boras strikes again! Right now, the Anderson deal seems to be the best value of the entire offseason.
Surly_03
Real inflation is approximately 18%? Misery index?
Now imagine if it continues around that rate for several more years or longer.
myaccount2
Great signing. Gonna slot in nicely behind Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez.
AndyMeyer
Solid
Joe It All
They add to their rotation and subtract an arm from the Mets. Win win for the Phillies.
WonderBoy
Win win for the Mets…he is added to the Phillies rotation and subtracted from the Mets
meckert
Tai was okay. Not an ace or even a number two but he augments their rotation very nicely.
phillies give me depression
i’ll take it
This one belongs to the Reds
Do they give you depression anymore?
OIC2021
Dumbrowski. Enough said.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Walker could get a very nice deal, especially in this off season’s market.
2 years/$35M? 4 years/$75M?
Bill Kane
Now get some bullpen help
88dodgers
Phillies having a strong offseason
Simm
As a padres fan, phillies are looking scary good.
VonPurpleHayes
I’m not huge on Walker as he tends to have bad 2nd halfs, but this is our 4th starter. I’ll take it. I still hope they sign another veteran starter, but this may be it.
Samuel
VonPurpleHayes;
He often can dominate early, but tends to fade a lot as games go on.
It seems he’d be best if they pull him after 5 if he lasts that long.
Gonna need a deep bullpen to do that.
Let’s see what the Phillies pitching coaches can do….not that the Mets were bad.
TheDogDays
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of this guy but he’s definitely capable of being solid.
PhanaticDuck26
yea was hoping/expecting that they’d aim a bit higher and go for Taillon, but I like this move. I was on the Walker hype train last time around but the Mets got to him first.
Ma4170
Agree, but gives some nice rotation depth which is important. Upgrade over Eflin, at least in my view.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If Harper recovers by mid-season, Walker just has to go 5 innings with 3 or fewer runs.
luclusciano
Seems expensive for a 4th
Samuel
luclusciano;
It’s a market. The players that teams are high on they have to pay up to sign them for the first 4-5 days.
After that will come a lot of signings of players, many of which will have just as good years for far less money. Many successful teams let the market come to them.
JackStrawb
Doesn’t seem so. More that the successful teams identify their weaknesses and cure them. AA moves early. Houston moves early. The Dodgers target guys and get them.
That means going after specific players, and since successful teams don’t have many holes, it doesn’t make sense that they’d wait around.
sailor7175
They will probably slot Painter as the #5.
rennick
I love me the Phillies, but I’m sensing a trend :P.
Realmuto, Wheeler, Harper, Turner, and now Walker. I’m guessing the scouting department just goes to the division games and tries to figure out which guy to poach. Hahaha. I kid.
ham77
When Painter arrives, Walker will end up being the 5th starter. Pretty solid.
BStrowman
I hope the Phil’s win a title because they’re heading down Red Sox/Tiger road afterwards.
VonPurpleHayes
How? They haven’t traded away any of their prospects. That’s the big difference. The one prospect they traded was for a young controllable player a year removed from being a prospect himself.
BStrowman
When money turns into dead money you have to spend or have a ton of young controllable talent to make the team better.
Nola and Wheeler will walk or need big extensions to keep around. (With likely dead money on the backend of their deals)
The Phil’s have a couple prospects but it’s not a particularly deep system. If DD can keep building depth maybe they will escape the downfall but that’s a lot of guaranteed cash on the books.
longines64
Did they see something more in him than Syndegard? I agree he’s slightly more than an opener. The market is way overpriced.
I can only think that teams aren’t fully sold on their farm systems and player development.
DarkSide830
MY BOI!!!
MarlinsFanBase
I wonder what is the selling point by the Phillies to all these former Mets.
“Hey, you want a real chance to win and never have to worry about being bashed for not being as good as delusional fans expected you to be because they said you’d be what amounts to 50% better than you have ever been?”
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
That’s coming from a Marlins fan. Smooth deal
DarkSide830
Philly fans don’t pulverize their players???
MarlinsFanBase
@DarkSide830
That’s what makes it funnier that they leave the Mets to join the Phillies.
User 401527550
Then why did Bohm say he hated it there because of the fans?
Bart Harley Jarvis
Have you asked Bohm for a recent opinion of the fans, or is it more convenient to stick with this old chestnut?
This one belongs to the Reds
I’d say both fan bases are pretty brutal.
Blue Baron
Like when they got Realmuto. What’s the Marlins’ excuse?
MarlinsFanBase
@Blue Baron
FYI – The Marlins traded Realmuto there. Do keep up.
Blue Baron
Because he wanted out. And you’re a Marlins fan. Do keep up, although you obviously can’t.
MarlinsFanBase
How’s that similar to what I said about the Mets? Do you have a reading comprehension issue?
User 401527550
Your bragging about trading star players to division rivals? What fun to be a Marlins fan.
MarlinsFanBase
Um, where am I bragging? Wow, those schools in NY don’t teach reading very well…or social cues.
Joe It All
Philadelphia fans threw snowballs at Santa Claus
VonPurpleHayes
Before most people here were born. But let’s keep bringing it up.
flyingblindsquirrel
Says the guy whose screen name is a reference to a mediocre player from the 80s.
VonPurpleHayes
Right, and the Santa Claus booing was in the 60s, way before I was alive and before Von Hayes was in the majors.
PhanaticDuck26
’twas all in the joyous holiday spirit.
MarlinsFanBase
@Joe It All
Based on these transactions, it seems that they enjoy throwing snowballs at Mr. Mets more. They even brought back the pitcher that was messing with Mrs. Mets. I’m sure the Philly Phanatic was asking Thor all about that.
Blue Baron
It’s Mr and Mrs MET. But I know Florida has a low literacy rate.
MarlinsFanBase
No matter if it has the ‘s’ or not, Thor had some of the Mrs. part.
davidm
Eagles fans did that. They’re generally drunker.
cpdpoet
It was in 1968 and he was an inebriated fan…….not a paid performer. Such a lame, lazy and tired take….and that is the nicest assessment of your offering….
*
*Note to Astros fans, “jokers” like this will be tossing out trashcan jokes well into the 2070’s apparently…….
TheDayMILBDied
Old news. That happen in 1968.
libertybell444
Do you even know the background on that. Most people weren’t born but those who were know that it all started when the Eagles took a guy off the street who was a drunk, gave him a couple of bucks and paraded him around the stadium letting him throw candy into the lower level stands. Here’s the story: masslive.com/patriots/2019/11/yes-philadelphia-eag…
What type of great things have the fans of your team ever done? Anyone ever get in a fight at a game? Is it ok to boo if a player isn’t busting his butt? Do you ridicule 49 and raider fans for basically killing each other? How about NY Fans any of them ever do anything not to your liking? What do marlin fans do other than not come to games and watch stars traded to real teams like the Phillies and Yankees? If the marlins folded tomorrow most of Florida could care less. The rays too in my opinion. Baseball in Florida is for spring training.
Bart Harley Jarvis
It was 1968 and, believe it or not, it wasn’t the real Santa Claus. And it’s okay to believe, if you still do. Innocence is a wonderful thing.
rct
lmao, you are hilarious. Always there to bash the Mets because the Marlins have nothing interesting to talk about.
How’s that rebuild going, btw? Will the Marlins be competitive by 2030?
MarlinsFanBase
@rct
Not as long as we have an Ambassador for Baseball in the position of GM for us. I’ve come to terms that we’re going nowhere until Ng either does her job or is gone.
rct
Well, good luck. That division is going to be tough!
MarlinsFanBase
I’ll be just watching for the love for the game until the Marlins give me something to look forward to. That’s all I can do when I know we’ll be leading many games through the first 7 innings, before our garbage bullpen comes in to show who can implode worse in that personal competition they’ve had over the last couple of seasons. And I truly can’t wait to see how many blown saves Floro has in April before they pass the job to the next guy in May. Yay for me!
Marlins marketing campaign for 2023: Marlins Baseball – Take a nap for the first seven innings of a low-scoring game, then wake up in the eighth because our bullpen can blow anything!
Samuel
MarlinsFanBase;
You can root for the Red Sox in the AL.
You’re coming off like their fans do.
This one belongs to the Reds
Ng has been running them for about five minutes. Sure your objection isn’t because of something else?
MarlinsFanBase
@This one belongs to the Reds
Two years is not 5 minutes. How many years does it take for a GM to show something? I don’t want to go through another run like we did with Mike Hill.
MarlinsFanBase
@Samuel
How so?
This one belongs to the Reds
Unfortunately it depends on their resources and I think your team’s is about the same as my team.
MarlinsFanBase
That I agree with. However, Ng looked really bad when she failed to move players at the deadline that we needed to move to make room for younger players. She only pulled one deal off and nothing else. Since then, she released Aguilar for nothing….several weeks after the deadline to give him a chance to play somewhere else after 1B was congested with Lewin Diaz needing to play and show his ability; Garrett Cooper declined from his highest trade value; Steve Okert declined from his highest trade value; She’s gambling on Berti dropping from his highest trade value; She’s let Wendle and Rojas get older to drop their value more.
These are items just in the last several months prior to her failures in both offseasons with her attempts at adding bullpen and hitting.
This is where I’m coming from that she needs to show something. She’s had a lot of misses and very few hits. She seems more focused on being an ambassador for baseball instead of being the Marlins GM. I feel that if she isn’t going to do the job she was hired to do, then she should just go work for the MLB League office to promote the game’s equality and diversity instead of keeping the Marlins GM job from someone who may want it and actually do the job.
BetterMuppet:JUDGEorKERMIT?
I’m hope the jays front office is at least getting a nice tan.
Edp007
So Verlander Scherzer and pray for rain for the Mets or am I forgetting someone?
DarkSide830
Stale Cookie, David Peterson, and…Megill? They probably bring back Bass still, but who knows.
SteveC
Carrasco?
Edp007
Forgot about Carrasco. Veteran threesome for sure lol
VonPurpleHayes
Mets are going to throw a ton at Senga and Taillon. Which to be honest, isn’t the worst move at this point.
PhanaticDuck26
yea I really wanted the Phils to pull a surprise move and go for Senga. It could still happen. Senga has said he wants to win, so at least that knocks the Mets out of the running.
rct
They have Carrasco but they’re definitely not done. That said, Walker was a good 4/5 starter for them.
VonPurpleHayes
Absolutely agree, rct. Mets are going to get another SP. Keep in mind Scherzer and Verlander pretty much need to pitch in a 6-man rotation at this point. Cohen will get his targets. I’m more concerned about the Mets bullpen. It’s pretty lacking outside of an elite closer. I think the Mets will make a splash there as well.
RunDMC
There’s not much to solidify that ‘pen. I was thinking they’d go after Chafin and possibly Fulmer. Having 2 elders at the front of that rotation — they need some decent mid-RP.
User 401527550
I think they will be in the trade market for pitchers. My biggest concern is the bullpen. Phillies in my book are the favorites for the division right now but still plenty of off-season to go. Braves haven’t done anything yet.
VonPurpleHayes
Braves made a lot of moves during the season. I think they’ll bring Dansby back. If the Mets bring back Bassit or get Senga. their rotation is pretty sick. This division is just tough. I still have the Braves on top until someone brats them.
User 401527550
I think Swanson is gone. The market is going to high for the Braves.
This one belongs to the Reds
The market is going too high for most teams.
RunDMC
Haven’t done anything yet? They extended 3 guys in 71 days before FA ever started to not have to worry about these ridiculous prices. That’s not including taking on Rasiel Iglesias’ contract at the Deadline to let Jansen walk, avoiding needing a closer. Jansen just signed for 2/$36M with BOS. They took over Iglesias’ (3/$48M remaining), not including the $10M ATL paid for rest of 2022 season. All things considered, I’m much more content with Iglesias than Jansen.
bryan c
I mean I love watching the Phillies fans drop the ball at the one yard line a la Desean Jackson. It’s far from over. It’s day 2 of the winter meetings. For your information, Carrasco was far better than Walker last year and Megill was lights out before his injury and never given another shot to start. Senga and Taillon on the radar.
I will absolutely take Mad Max and JV over Nola and Wheeler and Cookie and Megill already cancel out Suarez and Walker. And there will be another addition.
Be happy. Walker is a decent pick up. Turner is awesome. But the signings aren’t yet complete. I mean Megill no hit the Phil’s last year (combo) and Peterson shuts em down every time.
All that said, the Braves outclass us both by a long shot with a solid rotation, strong bullpen and youthful lineup that can score with anyone.
Super2
Jesus when did the Phillies go full Yankees
MLB Top 100 Commenter
When did the Yankees go full Pirates?
(Sorry, Pirates fans – Stargell was a favorite but it has been a while)
User 401527550
When they saw the Mets spend and didn’t want to be perennial third place team. Cohen is making everyone spend or be left behind.
VonPurpleHayes
Phillies started spending before Cohen was even an owner, but I agree, the competition makes everyone better.
benhen77
Dave Dombrowski
put it in the books
Walkers good until the second half when he implodes
User 401527550
He imploded last year when the Mets kept pitching him because everyone else was hurt. He was coming off a major injury and needed rest and he didn’t get it. He didn’t implode this year.
Astros2017&22Champs
Are they gonna re-up Nola? This is the last year of his deal I believe. Either way the Phillies are killing it
Sunday Lasagna
With the pitching market this year, no reason to think Nola next year as a 31 year old will not get a 6 year $180M deal. Phillies should act now and get him extended.
User 401527550
Why would Nola not go to free agency at this point. He would be giving up tons of money.
VonPurpleHayes
Depends if the Phillies offer him a ton and he likes it there. We will have to wait and see.
x_jesp
Wow
put it in the books
For $18m per year that’s a bad deal.
Brixton
Matt Boyd got 10M after throwing like 10 good innings the last half decade. 18M is fine for Walker
put it in the books
For 4 years? It’s not gonna age well
Brixton
is there any analysis behind that though? He just had the best year of his career and its not like hes 33 already. 4 years for 30 year old SP MOTR guys has been the standard for like the last decade.
Edwin Jackson, Matt Garza, Steve Matz, Ricky Nolasco, Nate Eovaldi, etc.
User 401527550
He’s not old.
JackStrawb
100 inning guy, really, who got very lucky on fly balls in 2022. In Philly he’s going to have some awful, early exits.
Look at his numbers away from NY in 2021. That’s who you’re getting:
.258/.325/.461/.786 against.
flamingbagofpoop
18m for 4 years…apples and oranges.
VonPurpleHayes
Fangraphs has him projected at 20m per year. So technically this would be a good deal in this market, but I’m not huge on Walker.
User 401527550
You will be next year. Hes a solid pitcher.
David Kupsick
Better than Noah/Gibson
jvent
For $18 per, I’d rather have Senga or Taillon or both as a Met or even Manaea
VonPurpleHayes
Taillon is going to get a lot more than 18 per, but I agree about him and Senga. Not sure about Manaea. He got crushed this year.
Ma4170
And that’s crazy – taillon getting more than 18 per, that is
JackStrawb
Taillon defines mediocrity.
rememberthecoop
Very solid signing by the Phillies. 18M AAV is a good deal for a guy like Walker. This is exactly the kind of pitcher my Cubs need, but as usual, Jed sits on the sidelines and waits until the bargain basement opens for business.
Simm
18m is on the high side for 4 years.
Then again prices are insane right now.
VonPurpleHayes
Yea. In this market, 18m is on the low end for Walker. I don’t love this move. I don’t hate it. It’s fine.
PhanaticDuck26
I was pretty shocked to see 18/72 mil as well, but then again I thought Trea was “only” going to go for about 260 total, so I guess I’m kind of forgetting how much money there is to go around.
coloredpaper
@rememberthecoop They did overpay for Bellinger, so he’s not just window shopping rn haha
Fooque2
They got Tallion for less…..
User 3663041837
Lotta money for 4.2 Walker.
Rsox
Nice get for the Phils
Sunday Lasagna
Bassitt’s price, and I wrote this after the Eflin deal is $100M in this market.
getrealgone2
Excellent. Braves usually handle him fine.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s a bit of a shame that the NLE is the best it’s ever been and our teams hardly play each other anymore because of the balanced schedule.
libertybell444
Braves need help.
PhanaticDuck26
I had Taijuan to the Braves in the contest, if that helps!
libertybell444
Cubs will sign Matt Moore
davidm
I like the 4 years. Adds some stability along side Suarez and (hopefully) Painter, moving forward. Who knows whether we can keep Nola. And Wheeler’s probably gone in 2 years. The price was a little high, but all these deals are going to look better and better as future salaries for key positions keep rising.
PhanaticDuck26
yea it wasn’t that long ago that Wheeler’s 118 contract was lambasted by many…dang, in this market, after we see what Rodon gets, Zack could probably be getting like 6/180 at least.
Ma4170
Wheeler is an ace, he’d get more than that
VonPurpleHayes
During that offseason, on these very boards, I proclaimed Wheeler to have ace potential and most argued with me, calling him a #4 at best. Now here we are and he has been more productive than deGrom over that timespan.
Ma4170
Yeah and they had no clue what they were talking about, and called that out on Mets boards too. His 2018 second half was almost better than degroms, and his 2019 was decent, but you could see it was all coming together post his lost surgery years. He really brought it all together w you guys. I hated losing him, and was pissed at the wilpons for that one.
rct
Good for them, but boy, that’s a lot of money for someone as inconsistent as Walker. His 3rd time through the lineup stats (like beyond 70 pitches) are not good. Good luck to him.
Bassitt has to be smiling. If Walker can get 4/$72 million, Bassitt might clear $100 million.
VonPurpleHayes
Yup. This market is nuts. Bassitt will clear 100 for sure.
rct
@Von: in this market, who would you take? Bassitt at 5/$100 (or maybe $110 at this rate) or Walker at 4/$72?
VonPurpleHayes
I absolutely hate going 5 years for Bassitt, but over the next 2 years, I think Bassitt is the much better pitcher.
VonPurpleHayes
Ohh and Bassitt costs you picks…hmmm. Now it’s actually a tougher choice than I thought.
Ma4170
I do wonder if the guys w comp picks attached will get shorter contracts w lower AAV?
rct
haha, I actually forgot about Bassitt having a comp pick attached! Personally, I would take Bassitt, but it’s funny to look at the Mets 2022 rotation and see what it will end up costing in 2023.
Cohens_Wallet
Spot on!
DepressedDodgerFan
Phillies are spendin
RunDMC
…stupid money. It’s en vogue all over again. Welcome back Dombrowski.
fred-3
What are people smoking in this thread? This is too much money to give to a 4 starter.
VonPurpleHayes
Have you not seen the market?
fred-3
I understand, but a 4th starter shouldn’t cost this much. The Dodgers got Tyler Anderson last year for $8 million. I’m sure there’s someone out there like that.
VonPurpleHayes
Yea. I don’t love the deal, I’m not going to lie.
Plugnplay
And Tyler Anderson’s 3/39m is looking like a bargain this off-season. These prices are getting CRAZY!
RunDMC
This is what I thought with Walker’s deal…and then the Taillon deal happened. Whew! A lot to pay for a 3.5-4.0 ERA. Better have some decent D to back them up.
David Kupsick
Tyler Anderson?
Gibson 10M
Thor 13M
Walker is better than all of these
J leathal86
What a over pay wow
hoof hearted
So 150ish inning will get you $72 m deal
Stupid spending x2
Cohens_Wallet
Definitely a good signing by the Phills. A bit more than I thought he would ever get but then again that’s every pitcher in baseball not named Kershaw.
MPrck
Houston you may have a problem, D.D is a man on a mission. Where will Houston upgrade next in response ? Will the Met’s go get Judge to keep up, 10 400 or over an out ? Waku waku as Anya would say, D.D has brought the hot stove with him. Stay tuned !
Samuel
MPrck;
Rosters are not frozen on opening day.
MPrck
( shocked emoji ), are you sure ?
wright1970
MPrck, the Mets definitely need a Judge type bat to even come close to the Braves and Phillies offensive lineups. Mets are lagging behind in the NL East this upcoming year……
MPrck
It’s going to be a fun season there, a whole lot of stories.
stroh
Stros added Jose Abreu as an upgrade at 1B and are shopping for OF and C, far from done. No need to add pitching. Stros will be in ALCS again and good chance they go to WS again. Others are trying hard to catch up. That said, I like the Phillies moves the most of any team in NL East.
MPrck
The Astros pitching an hitting is good enough to be in the W.S. next year, but they’ll add more bats most likely. D.D, what more needs to said there. Houston versus ? If Judge wants to be in the spotlight he’ll avoid the west coast. N.Y. is the place to be. Mets hopefully.
vaderzim
Hopefully Walker goes the path of Wheeler, another injury riddled pitcher who began to dominate after the Phillies signed him from the Mets.
10centBeerNight
Solid – having watched a lot of NL East last year, he’s similar to Gibson. Can stymie and offense in stretches, but goes through some bad stretches. That’s classic 4th starter
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I don’t quite understand this, but I think his age increased his AAV, not just years. At this age, why not just offer 5 years 82.5 or something instead?
jvent
The Mets have a lot of $$ coming off the books in not resigning deGrom,Bassitt,Walker,Nimmo and those relief pitchers , they signed Verlander but still need a very good SP or 2 , an OF and a DH, I propose, Senga, Manaea, either resign Nimmo or sign Conforto and sign Voit or JD Mart to DH. Trade McCann for whatever.
DanzigInTheDark
“whatever” is probably too much for McCann tbh
wright1970
jvent, Mets lineup sorely lacking in comparison to Braves and Phillies, even with Nimmo and whoever they bring in for dh. DD is a way better GM than Eppler….
JackStrawb
@jvent The Mets are already at $287m for CBT purposes.
They need two postseason-capable SPs, an entire bullpen, and a starting CF. They won’t catch Philly, let alone the Braves.
Cohen inherited a cheap, 40 WAR core, but his last two very poor offseasons, in terms of planning, at all, have buried the Mets. They won’t be in Philly’s class even with a $330 million payroll in 2023.
Robrock30
JackStrawb,
The Mets are delusional. They lack a Farm System and can only spend their way to a WildCard in the Division. They don’t have a solid plan they just keep winging it. They never extend their Players prime example being Nimmo and the SPs lost and now they are expensive and in high demand. Everything rests on their 40 yo SPs now and the Rookies at C, 3B and DH.
DanzigInTheDark
Find someone who loves you as much as the Phillies seem to love collecting ex-Mets arms.
VonPurpleHayes
So far Wheeler has been amazing and Thor was a decent piece last year. Familia was a disaster, as expected. Hopefully Walker works out. Not to confident about it.
whocaresaboutRBI
Meh
cpdpoet
Hmm, would have been an overpay before FA started, but now a solid signing. TY Middleton & DD.
Once this off-season is over, I do wonder how the Nola negotiations will begin….He has quite a few detractors out there, but when you pull his bbalref page…he is going to get paid…..
And that’s a convo for another time…..onto a couple of bullpen pieces…..now…..
angt222
Thought they overpaid for Wheeler who at the time he joined Philly was an oft-injured pitcher who appeared to lose gas in the second half of seasons. Perhaps Taijuan can prove haters wrong too.
bumpy93
Love you DAVE! I love this signing of Walker. I would be lying it I didn’t say that is a lot of $$$$$ for him, but you have to pay skyrocketing pitcher salaries. let’s go for broke and get Kenley Jansen and call it a winter break
CarverAndrews
Not the ideal 3 / 4 starting option available, but still an upgrade from last year. The deal is clearly influenced by a red hot marketplace, but is not worth losing any sleep over…it is fine under the circumstances. Keep him healthy and he is going to help this team. They are also staggering the terms of their current SP…Nola one more year / Wheeler 2 / Taj now 4 years / Ranger last year pre-arb. Gotta’ try to extend Nola, and they will probably take a swing at Ranger as well.
bjhaas1977
He’s going to get bombed in that bandbox.
YourDreamGM
It’s a ok enough contract in this market. I would have gone cheaper. Or stepped it up and went for Rodon. Just don’t want to be in the middle. Go big or go cheap.
meandean
I was hoping for Bassett but Walker fits
meandean
I was hoping for Bassett but Walker will suffice
DTD/ATL1313
Another good signing and another bad contract.
ASapsFables
The Phillies continue making a statement in the tough NL East this offseason. The Mets are also busy. The Braves are on the clock….tick,tick,tick.
muskie73
Compare the stats over the past two seasons for righthanders Jameson Taillon, Taijuan Walker and Chris Flexen:
JT 321.2 IP, 4.08 ERA, 100 ERA+, 4.2 fWAR, 3.5 bWAR
TW 316.2 IP, 3.98 ERA, 99 ERA+, 3.9 fWAR, 3.1 bWAR
CF 317.2 IP, 3.66 ERA, 108 ERA+, 3.7 fWAR, 4.7 bWAR
The Seattle Mariners reportedly are shopping Flexen, who is two years younger than Walker and two-and-a-half years younger than Taillon. Flexen lost some luster in August when Luis Castillo bumped Flexen from the Seattle rotation. Despite the demotion Flexen matched Taillon’s 2022 bWAR of 1.3.
Many will point to Flexen’s drop in fWAR from 3.0 in 2021 to 0.7 in 2022. However, Walker has never posted an fWAR above 2.5 and Taillon has not exceeded 2.3 fWAR since 2018.
MLB Trade Rumors projected Taillon and Walker with four-year contracts in free agency, Taillon at $56 million and Walker at $52 million.
Flexen is guaranteed a 2023 salary of $8 million in what MLB Trade Rumors reports is his final year of team control (despite Flexen currently sitting on two years and 107 days of MLB service).
JackStrawb
Mets should have pounced on Flexen before this seller’s market matured.
They needed at least two starters after they signed one of JV, JG, or Rodon. What are they thinking? They have two saleable prospects in Mauricio and Vientos and need to move them before other teams realize they’re not MLB-caliber ballplayers except for Vientos, maybe, at DH.
BStrowman
Flexen has value with FA prices looking like this.
Really any controllable starter with decent results has value now.
Plesac from Cleveland is much more attractive than I would’ve thought. Marco Gonzales isn’t a straight salary dump anymore.
Jabronie23
This is a laughably bad deal lol. He’s had exactly two good years in his entire career and projects for only 1.4fWAR. It looks even worse considering it’ll make it tougher to address other needs on Philly’s roster. Right now, Fangraphs depth charts projects a .524 winning %, good for 12th in baseball, and that’s not accounting for all the big upgrades other teams will make around the league yet. Phils need a platoon partner for Marsh, a RF until Harper’s back, and at least a couple of relievers.
Fooque2
What did thses stats say last year when the Phillies went to the World Series?
David Kupsick
He’ll win 15 games, pitch 180 innings
Mike9559
He averaged 5.5 innings and his analytics say he is strong the third time around. Sounds good to me.
padam
Probably because the first two times around he got whacked. Finally figured them out later before getting pulled. Who knows…
wright1970
Taillon and Senga will get over 20 million per season so i would go for Rodon if i was the Mets..This is not the time for Cohen to cheap out
padam
When I saw $72M I was like “wow, he got 6 years.”
mookie1
The Mets really misread the market for Walker. Why would they think he might accept the one year QO, coming off two healthy seasons with Boras as his agent?
JackStrawb
@mookie1 Because after you threw back a few at the bar with Eppler, as you helped him back to his room, he’d be muttering, “You know (hic), I’ve never really understoomd pitching. Me. A major league GM…”
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Hire the Superfife.
I need a good job, with good boss.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I won’t even call you Dumbrowski anymore…just The DOM
🙁
JackStrawb
Terrible writeup. Walker was great in 94 innings in 2021, then was clearly pitching hurts.
Mets being Mets, of course, kept sending him out anyway. His post ASB ERA had to have been over 6.00.
And a foolish signing. I know it’s silly money season again in MLB, but for 72m you should be getting a guy you actually WANT to pitch in October.
VonPurpleHayes
He also needed to be a workhorse because deGrom and Scherzer were gone. Ideally, he’d get more rest in Philly. Still think this is a bit of an overpay, but that’s the market.
Robrock30
Having watched alot of Walker with the Mets, the Phillies made a good signing. Bottom line is I like Walker as a mid rotation SP. Why the Mets FO didn’t QO him is the question. Mistake which benefits the Phillies who don’t have to lose draft choices. Lol Mets
Fooque2
4 years ouch, 3yrs at 20 would have been a better choice
slider32
Good job Phillies, they had a sniff of the championship and are taking advantage of their window. Anybody notice the contracts after signing the new CBA. Teams are spending like a kid in a candy store! Makes pitchers like Castillo and Montas look like real bargains!
getrealgone2
Braves usually knock him around. Excellent signing
Troutahni
Great signing by the Phillies. If he is your #3 or #4 starter, with their Offense coupled with Trea Turner at SS, I could see Walker reaching 15 to 20 wins in the 2023 Season.
Expensive contract signing Tijuana. That’s at least a million separate contacts coming to a total cost of 72 Trillion Dollars. Convertion to Pesos?
DadsInDaniaBeach
Each and every time a team signs a free agent, you can guarantee the pessimists will come out of the woodwork and say how typical of (team name here) to do this. Way over pay, he’s a bum, no one wants to play in ( city name here).
The one thing for sure, is that non of us could be a GM. For me as a Phan, I do not know if Walker will be *The Guy*. I do know that Dave Dombrowski is a whole lot smarter than I am.
I’ll root…boo..cheer..like most.
I do know one thing. Just like last year, this team will rake..I love it! Go Phillies!
Phanatic420
Phillies paid fair market value for a 2/3 who’s our #4. When they signed Wheeler I didn’t understand that at first. I think both have had so many injuries now healthy, Walker could be a similar SP as Wheeler but at worst hes still better than any other Phillies SP not named Nola/Wheeler/Suarez. Let’s get a closer!