Even after Bryan Reynolds requested a trade from the Pirates, the team has given no indication of plans to shop him. General manager Ben Cherington called Reynolds’ request “disappointing” but immediately added that the request could have “zero impact” on the team’s approach to its All-Star center fielder. That appears to be the case, as while several clubs have inquired on Reynolds in the days since his trade, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic writes that the asking price is still through the roof — so much so that execs with three other clubs cast strong doubt on the chances of him actually being moved, per the report.
High asking prices are nothing new for the Pirates when it comes to Reynolds, though many onlookers might’ve wondered whether Reynolds’ request for a trade would grease the wheels on a transaction finally coming to fruition. It only ever takes one team to budge on the right prospect and/or make an unexpectedly strong offer, so situations such as this one can change quickly if circumstance dictate.
As it stands, however, Bucs seem intent on holding to the sky-high asking prices they’ve set on Reynolds in the past. The Seattle Times reported last year that Pittsburgh’s asking price for Reynolds when the Mariners asked at the 2021 trade deadline began with then-prospect Julio Rodriguez. The Miami Herald indicated last spring that Pittsburgh asked the Marlins for 2021 first-rounder Kahlil Watson, 2020 first-rounder Max Meyer and additional pieces. Both Watson and Meyer were consensus top-75 prospects in all of baseball at that point.
The calculus has inherently changed at least slightly since those reported asking prices, if only because Reynolds has inched closer to free agency. That said, he’s still under Pirates control for another three seasons, set to earn $6.75MM in 2023 before a pair of arbitration raises in 2024 and 2025. He’s also fresh off yet another strong season in which he slashed .262/.345/.461 (125 wRC+) with a career-high 27 home runs. Reynolds’ rate stats are down a bit from his brilliant 2021 season, though that’s at least partially due to a sluggish start in 2022; he finished the year quite strongly.
In all likelihood, Reynolds will continue to serve as one of the most oft-speculated and simultaneously least-attainable names on the trade market. It’s old hat for the 27-year-old by now, as he’s been the focus of trade pursuits for the bulk of his big league career. Such is the life of a young star on a rebuilding Pirates team, as both Reynolds and teammate David Bednar can attest. However, while Reynolds has at least looked to engineer his own exit from the perennial deluge of trade rumblings, Bednar has done no such thing. As Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writes, Bednar didn’t outwardly clamor for a long-term deal when asked about signing an extension but strongly implied he hopes to stay:
“I think you guys know how I feel about Pittsburgh. I love this place more than anything. But that’s the business part of it. I’m not worried about that. I’m just worried about getting outs for the whole season.”
It’s only natural that Bednar’s response would be one of affection for the city of Pittsburgh. He was, after all, born in Pittsburgh and raised in the area, attending nearby Mars Area High School before going to college in Easton — closer to Philadelphia. His family still lives in the Pittsburgh area.
Acquired from the Padres in the trade that sent Joe Musgrove to San Diego, Bednar has quickly emerged as one of the National League’s best relievers, pitching to a combined 2.40 ERA (2.57 FIP, 2.73 SIERA) with a huge 32.7% strikeout rate against a strong 7.8% walk rate in 112 1/3 innings with the Pirates. He moved into the closer’s role in 2022, saving a career-best 19 games, and has averaged just shy of 97 mph on his heater since being acquired by his hometown club. He comes with even more team control than Reynolds, as he’s not scheduled to become a free agent until the 2026-27 offseason. Teams have understandably placed plenty of inquiries, but the Pirates have (also understandably) set a lofty asking price on Bednar, just as with Reynolds.
While fans of baseball’s other 29 teams might be focused on who the Pirates might trade away, be it this offseason or next summer, Pittsburgh fans are more keenly focused on just how the Bucs might continue adding pieces this winter. The Pirates have already signed Carlos Santana, Vince Velasquez and Jarlin Garcia to one-year contracts as they look to improve their 2023 roster, and they’ll surely need to factor a catcher (or multiple catchers) into that equation.
Rob Biertempfel of The Athletic suggested recently that the Pirates plan to not only add a new starting catcher but also a backup in the weeks ahead. Top prospect Endy Rodriguez is the only catcher on the 40-man roster at the moment, and well-regarded as the 22-year-old switch-hitter may be, he’s played in all of 37 games above A-ball.
In 2022, the Pirates leaned on a combination of Jason Delay, Roberto Perez, Tyler Heineman, Andrew Knapp and Michael Perez behind the plate, creating a revolving-door effect that the team likely wishes to avoid in the future. Part of that was due to a May hamstring injury for Perez, which required surgery and ended the two-time Gold Glove winner’s season far earlier than anticipated. There’s been some mutual interest in the Bucs re-signing Perez, but Pittsburgh also reportedly has shown interest in former division rival Tucker Barnhart.
There are myriad options available in free agency, in addition to a few high-profile names on the trade market (e.g. Sean Murphy, Danny Jansen). However, with Rodriguez and 2021 No. 1 overall pick Henry Davis rising through the system, the Pirates are likely content to add some stopgap options while a pair of potential catchers of the future continue to develop in the upper minors.
There’s still a franchise in Pittsburgh?
Yes, obviously, they’re called the Steelers.
Their rivalry with the Lehigh Valley Ironpigs is legendary.
Actually the Pirate franchise appeared in the very first World Series in 1901
1903
Appeared in, and lost, to the Boston Americans aka Red Sox.
Hahaha Yeah…they got uniforms and everything!
The Penguins
Who are owned by the Fenway Group.
The Pirates control Reynolds through 2025. Unless they change the system, they get to keep him. If anyone wants a switch-hitting, All-Star outfielder, with 3 more years of control, make your best offer. Serious applicants only need apply.
Which is precisely why the Pirates can and will ask for the world in return and expect to get it. Realistically though Reynolds probably doesn’t go anywhere until the ’24 trade deadline at the earliest
Exactly! I’d rather keep him until the trade deadline in 2025 and have 2.67 more years of his skillset and take the best offer for him at that point, than I would get rid of him now, lose his skillset forever, and get a bunch more kids who may or may not ever be worth a damn. Of course, If somebody offers a #3 starter and a major league ready outfielder, maybe the Bucs consider it.
One more point for a bit of perspective. Keeping Reynolds through 7/31/25 means the Pirates will have had him through most of his prime years. Let the high rollers pay him through the nose then for his declining years.
plus he won’t deliberately tank, knowing his potential trade value will itself tank and he’ll never leave Pittsburgh
One other note, my belief is if he’s not traded next year, at his next arbitration hearing, he’ll receive a salary increase that might give the franchise reason to give him the contract he wants
Yeah, they have uniforms and everything 🙂
Its always funny to see the “asking price” for players. Usually they are so absurd you wonder if the GMs say it as a joke but then there is that 1% of the time someone accepts it like the Archer trade.
More often than not, the team trading for the established player wins the trade in the long run.
As for the Archer trade, it turned out a lot less one sided. Meadows and Archer were constantly hurt and Baz just had TJ. The Rays ended up with very little. The Bucs just got nothing.
You forgot Glasnow who’s becoming the Ray’s ace. He was included in the Archer trade
The best ability is availability.
38 games in 4 years. Not an Ace in my book.
Yes but Glasnow is hurt more often than not too. Amazing talent who’s great when he plays, but the most starts he’s made in a season for them is 14.
you conveniently forgot to mention he had TJ surgery
And that makes him MORE valuable to you? It means he has to recover for a while and his 6 year clock keeps rolling.
Meadows was not constantly hurt. His production alone made that trade one sided. 2019 and 2021 were solid years. Glasnow’s limited playing time has been disappointing, but they may finally get their dividends this year. Baz’s injury is also unfortunate, but they may still benefit from him too (I think he could be even better than Glasnow and McClanahan). In exchange, the Pirates got 1.5 really bad years of Archer. Maybe not as one sided as it is hyped, but still a pretty bad trade for the Pirates.
In 2019 Meadows had a 4 WAR. That makes him an all star and wins the Rays the trade (no argument about that). But 2021? A 2 WAR season is a success?
You think Glasnow is past his injuries? Good luck with that.
Baz could be something and he has a high ceiling but my guess is he turns into a solid #3.
The fact is, this trade is only talked about because the next year Archer was a 0 WAR player while Glasnow and Meadows were a combined 7 WAR. The three years since? They’re a combined 4 WAR.
One sided, absolutely. But not any more one sided than the Aramis Ramirez trade or Jose Bautista.
@Lost I did concede that it isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. I think we pretty much agree that it was a bad trade, but not epically bad. With that said, the trade does have potential to look a lot worse if (I concede that it is a big if) Glasnow and Baz can log a few good seasons, whereas there is no potential for the trade to get better on the Pirates end.
100% agreed. If Glasnow recovers fully and looks dominant and if Baz lives up to his potential. THEN it would be EXTREMELY one sided. I’m just saying it’s not there yet.
I think we mostly agree.
It’s funny to read justifications for this trade. My friend @MendozaLine has made valid points and I can understand the thinking. But talking about the three Pirates who were traded in past tense is ridiculous. None of the three is done. Archer on the other hand was DOA when he got here
Fair. It was a bad trade but people talk about it like Ruth to the Yankees. In retrospect it was not that one sided. Do you think the Pirates would get the same Glasnow as the Rays? I don’t.
Tired-Thank you for the complement.Us old guys have to stick together!
I do not think that there is any way that the Archer trade can be considered anything but a bad trade.Each one of the three young players have provided more than Archer provided,largely due to his injuries.The only reservation that I had about it was including Baz and I think that NH had a moment of desperation there.
What I always resented from unknowledgeable posters was that this trade was representative of NH’s trades.Also,that it was “the worst trade of all time”I am glad to see more moderation of those thoughts in recent posts.
Different conversation, of course
While Ray Searage resurrected the careers of AJ Burnett, Frankie Liriano, Edison Volquez and Jason Grilli, he failed miserably with other guys like Glasnow. And let’s face it, Cole and Morton became real pitchers when they left town
Yeah it’s not this amazing trade it looked like a couple of years ago. Meadows was so bad by the end of 2021 he was in a platoon and they couldn’t wait to get rid of him, and Glasnow can’t pitch a full season.
Right. It was a bad trade but not the worst. It looked like the worst in 2019 when Meadows and Glasnow looked great but their careers (unfortunately) have been derailed by injury and ineffectiveness.
Isn’t Meadows playing in Detroit now? I feel like Rays traded him to some team in the AL Central
Yeah, and he’s trying to overcome what I perceive to be anxiety issues.
You list the Ramirez and Joey Bats trades as being on a par, and that’s patently ridiculous. In the case of the latter, he was nothing here. And beyond that, there was nothing suggesting he’d become a star or power hitter as he did in Toronto
I was never a Ramirez fan as he was the prototypical power hitter of that time i.e. he’d either homer or strike out. Like Josh Bell a generation later, he put up some numbers but ok, for argument’s sake we’ll say the Pirates got nothing in that trade
But to compare either to arguably the worst trade in recent Pirates history is folly and any amount of hindsight that casts the three kids as being done or injury prone is illogical
The bottom line remains that Archer was a so-so pitcher, at best. The trade was made to perhaps get 5 or 6 wins out of him to get to a wildcard berth. In doing so, they sacrificed a promising outfielder who did in fact have a couple solid years that led to MANY MORE wins and a big arm that became the Rays big arm in their playoff run
The worst?
That’s up for perception
Horribly misguided? Sure
Tired-I think that with Cole and Morton it was a number of factors-
1 better health
2 mediocre coaching by Searage
3 very good coaching by subsequent pitching coaches
4 added maturity of both
@Mendoza Yeah I was okay with the trade at the time until the PTBNL was Baz then i flipped my lid.
in other words, they’ll dumpster dive by inviting non roster attendees that no other team wants to compete for a starting spot
They’ll never trade for or sign a big name player from Free Agency
Bob Nutting, the owner, worth approximately $1.5 billion is too cheap. He’s the most hated sports associated person in Pittsburgh and with good reason
Then you need to do what expos fans did and stop giving the owner your money and force him to sell.
Sadly it resulted in the expos also being moved, and a false reputation they wouldn’t support a major league team.
I have been a Pirate fan since 1966 and was a season ticket holder for 30 years
After Nutting bought the team and began dumping salaries and good players, I’ve vowed never go to another home game as long as he’s the owner
Thirty years of being a Pirates season ticket holder is some series dedication considering there was a twenty-one year losing streak for a better part (if not all) of those thirty years.
That being said, PNC Park is an amazing place to see a baseball game. Further, the Pirates issue is *not* talent identification as evidenced by the insanely high number of their former first round picks performing well on other teams.
The issue with the Pirates has been, and especially now is (as @TheMan 3 points out), stingy ownership groups who don’t seem to mind that their names are associated with losing.
I wouldn’t say I refuse to go to a home game, but on the flipside, there are only so many dollar hot dog nights and free t-shirt fridays that would give me a reason to go.
She’ll ….Too-I think that the attendance would spike every time that the Pirates would have a wet T- shirt night instead of a free T- shirt one.
Now that would draw a lot of attention,
fireworks night or scheduled perogi races always bring out a crowd
I go to games in Pittsburgh because there’s very few better ways to spend any day than going to see a MLB game. PNC Park is great and I usually try to pick games where I want to see the visiting team or a specific player on the visiting team (side note: Angels really need to come to Pittsburgh so I can see Trout before he retires) but mostly it’s just because I love baseball. Hope yinz can find that joy again regardless of Nutting. Cheers
Really, there’s no other ways to spend money during the summer in Pittsburgh?
Ever been to Carnegie Museum? Carnegie Science Center? Buhl Planetarium?
Kennywood? Ohiopyle?
There’s a vast range of activities in and around Pittsburgh to spend one’s time during any time of year
Agreed and I’ve been to all of those and plenty more but for me baseball is better. Spending an hour or two in Riverview Park in the afternoon then walking down Perrysville/Federal Street for about an hour and a half to hit a bar near PNC Park for dinner and a couple beers before a night game is the perfect day in my book.
It doesn’t work that way. Why are so many baseball fans confused?
Owners like Bob Nutting make huge profits thanks to revenue share, national TV and local TV contracts. As has been reported in our local newspaper, the Pirates payroll is paid for via ticket/gate receipts, merchandise sales and parking
Even Mark Cuban has said that attendance means as much to Nutting as fielding a competitive team
There is no cavalry on the horizon. There is no impetus for Nutting to sell the franchise as long as MLB’s financial framework stays intact, and since they refuse to open their books—and thereby add to the erroneous attendance conjecture—it’s a given that nothing is going to change
Tired, I have always believed that because the taxpayers funded the construction costs of PNC Park, the state should have the authority to audit the Nutting ownership of the franchise since the stadium is predominantly used for major league baseball
Tired-Yours is a consistent take on Nutting,and seemingly very reasonably representative of the vast majority of Pirate fans takes on him.
I have a more moderate one on him,but realize that I could be wrong in my assessment,especially due to the propensity of negativity surrounding him.
What I realize is that Nutting is a businessman first and foremost.
He is no Steve Cohen nor Mike Ilitch,and most assuredly never will be.
The question boils down to how much of an owner’s personal money,if any,should be spent on the team.
Arguements have been made that he should spend some if the stadium was publicly financed,and that the annual public cost is more than brought in by taxes.I am not knowledgeable about that in this situation so I cannot comment.
What I will say is based on several posts put together a couple of weeks ago it seems to me that Nutting nets $40-45M per year,and his team ownership has appreciated $40-45M per year and the former is based on a total salary of about $50-60 M per year.
Let’s say he makes $15-20 M more when the Pirates have a really good team like they did during 2013-2015.
If these things are all true,then what it says is that he does not make a huge amount on his investment every year,but he is obligated to spend some of his past team $ appreciation on players when they do have a good team in order to compete.
What most posters do not realize is that the Pirates nose dived half way through 2019 and Nutting came to realize that the only way to compete as a small market team in a large market world is to have a fine farm system like the better richer teams have.
I give Nutting credit for one big thing that very few do-he saved the Pirates for Pittsburgh.The Galbreaths were great owners in my opinion,and their name brings back my youth.But the subsequent mass Pittsburgh ownership team was a place holder to maintain the team there,and McClatchy did not have the money to really even own a ML team,and you saw the outcome.There are no longer rumors of moving the team,and for that I am grateful.
@TheMan 3, Not a bad idea, and there is some precedent for it.
For the four stadiums that were approved to be built in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia in 1998, the teams *did* agree to reimburse the Commonwealth if a certain amount of new tax revenue failed to be generated within ten years.
I researched it and found that the Pirates Organization never repaid their promised debt to the Commonwealth and they have been fighting the Sports Exihibition Authority over maintenance costs of the stadium
The Commonwealth tried to audit the franchise but lost in court because Nutting is a private citizen and company
@MendozaLine, I appreciate you bringing up the Galbreaths in the conversation. I wonder how they would conduct business in this era, as I do Joe L Brown, who I thought was a fine GM
A couple points about your argument here:
-I generally think most fans think like Jaysfan does, above. That is, attendance is a huge factor in ownership’s profit margins and decision making. In reality, I think it is a non factor in both areas as explained. That Nutting makes comments exhorting fans to come out and he’ll build a competitive franchise is not only self serving but infuriating and dishonest
-My disdain for Nutting comes via his purchase of the team and his apparent view that “deals” made in the building of PNC Park do not apply to him since he wasn’t here at that time. Imagine buying a home and disregarding protective covenants surrounding your property. His place of business was built with taxpayer dollars, during public rancor that resulted in assurances about the franchise staying here but moreover, acting as a boon to local restaurants, bars and shops that built around his ballpark. No civic responsibility, no sense of pride for an old franchise, no allegiance to local businesses who suffer with a losing team
My friend, you can call him a shrewd businessman. I call him a carpetbagger
Tired- I admit to be completely ignorant of what went on since 1998 regarding the stadium.You and Paul and others are way more knowledgeable of that aspect than I am.
It seems that McClatchy was the owner then but that any original contract stipulations to build the stadium would be legally transferred to the next owner.
If so,it seems to me that the State or City should proceed with getting these payments form him as the current owner.If somehow they were not legally transferred,then McClatchy should be on the hook for them.
If all of this is true then I understand your disdain for Bob Nutting.,especially since the team’s value has appreciated substantially since he purchased the team.
Politics. It all comes down to wink and nod politics. Assurances. Promises. How many restaurants and bars have come along the Federal Street corridor in the time since PNC opened? How many other shops?
The discourse over funding the erection of the new ballpark went on for months and finally, assurances, handshakes and a lot of PR got the thing built
You write of legalities here when it is doubtful to me that any such wording existed in contractual form, instead being akin to campaign promises that never see the light of day
McClatchy and everyone in politics from the Mayor to the state level played their role. But the problem with these types of promises is that they involved livelihoods. Of business owners who rely on people coming into the corridor. Of their employees
Civic responsibility. This “businessman” doesn’t know the meaning, and understanding the pride a city has for its ballclubs_especially a city like ours—has been given short shrift
I’m beating a dead horse here and I apologize. Nothing is going to change
Mendoza, Nutting has always owned a piece of the Bucs when McClatchey bought the team. Nutting invested in the original purchase, albeit a small portion of the purchase
When he bought out McClatchey he paid $97 million for the remainder of the purchase
Now the franchise on paper is worth $1.2 billion.
You mentioned yesterday that Nutting is a businessman. That holds true of every baseball owner, difference being, the other owners want to win, Nutting only wants money.
Expos gots stripped and moved by the MLB. Nothing to do with fans/owner relations. From my understanding, Expos ownership did some shady stuff for the MLB to step in and strip Montreal of their trip. Some sort of illegal activity by the owners. It was so long ago, I can’t remember exact reason why MLB moved Expos to Washington and changed their name.
The ownership group of the Expos could not threaten the city of Montreal into building a new ball field and incredibly, simply abandoned the franchise to buy the Florida Marlins, a new franchise. Along the way, they scuttled the ship, getting rid of their players and making numerous bad business decisions
Since MLB has a rule that no one can own TWO franchises, MLB took control of the Expos and themselves moved the franchise to DC after dissolving the old Expos
Lots of side stories about the owners and their failed attempts to build a new stadium—they even had to play a number of games in San Juan in their last season because Olympic Stadium did in fact need renovation
But it’s hilariously ironic to hear the MLB idea to split Rays games between Tampa and Montreal as a future possibility.
Another stadium issue in Tampa these days, and the team Montreal’s owners bolted for to begin with. (I believe there is new ownership in Tampa)
Bob Castellini would like to discuss this
Yankees supposedly working on a bigger deal than Rodon. Obviously not a Correa signing. My money is on a (ultimately futile) Bryan Reynolds trade. Maybe Bednar thrown in as part of a massive three-team gig.
Bednar won’t be included in any trade involving Reynolds
Bednar in under control for 5 years and from local sports media, the Pirates want at least one major league ready outfielder in return for any trade for Reynolds
“Yankees supposedly working on a bigger deal than Rodon”
Signing Rodon would be a “bigger deal” in everyway over trading for Reynolds.
What’s a bigger deal than Rodon then (not my words, Michael Kay’s via his “source”)? It’s obviously not Correa. I’m all ears.
That rumor started with Buster Olney. Michael Kay was just repeating it and trying to guess what it was.
Besides that, my prediction was the unlikely Reynolds+Bednar trade. I do think that’s bigger than simply Rodon by himself (who I’m a huge fan of).
Mudy-It might be,and if they give him seven years it will be,and if so it would be a colossal mistake that would kill a small market team.
Pirates already have Andujar, what’s left for the Yankees to give…
They’ll trade em’ Florial and he’ll become an instant star on that AAA team they got in Pittsburgh.
Maybe Frazier, now that he’s going by Jackson instead of Clint. That’ll fool em…
Is he around Adam Frazier’s size? That way Nutting wouldn’t have to spend on new jerseys for him
Have to thank Yankees fans for reminding us why it’s impossible to root for their team, as illustrated in these threads
Congrats. You have a big market team with deep pocket owners. And you still manage to lose in the playoffs.
Yeah, the AAA team here in our shanty town Pittsburgh should just hand guys like Reynolds and Bednar over to the Yankees for guys who’d likely never make the bigs to begin with.
Hilarious
Tired-I admit I as an old guy I sometimes pine for the past,especially as a lifelong Pirates fan.
And as a small market team fan we have to endure the arrogance of some large market fans,
But we will always have 1960.
That will never change.
We will also always have
Clemente
Wagner-Bednar will not be a “throw in” to anyone.
He is an all star on his own accord.
If he maintains his health he will be one of the finest closers in the league,and a fair return in himself for the fine pitcher Musgrove.
The question may become whether it is worth it to give an extension like they gave Hayes to a relief pitcher who is obviously more valuable to a good team.
Dodged a bullet on that Marlins ask. Kahlil Watson last made news by threatening a minor league ump with a bat after one of his signature strikeouts. He’s a loser.
I read somewhere that the Pirates want a Juan Soto type deal for Reynolds. That’s a nonstarter. Guy isn’t even 1/10th of Juan Soto.
Old York – I would love to trade 1/10th of Juan Soto for Bryan Reynolds any day. That’s exactly how the wild deals go down and a team finds value. George Steinbrenner lived the 1980s that way. He packed out a pretty decent all star team in bad deals.
No, I’m saying, the Pirates are asking for a similar deal that Washington got for Juan Soto. You’re not trading a guy in your farm system that is 1/1oth of Soto for Reynolds. I’m saying that Reynolds is not even close to being 1/10th of what Soto is. So, if you want to trade the farm for Reynolds, go ahead. I just don’t see the value in Reynolds and the Pirates, according to reports, want the same trade that got Soto. Are you going to deliver that?
Old York-To say that Reynolds is 1/10 th of Soto is ridiculous hyperbole.
Of course he is not nearly as good as Soto,and would not get nearly as much in return.
But prospects are not proven major league players,many do not pan out,and the Pirates are justified in askiing for three very fine young players in return.
Agreed. Remember when the Yankees wouldn’t give up two of their best prospects for Cole? Those prospects were Clint Fraiser and Andujar. How’d that work out for them?
While I agree, Old York, depending on how Reynolds plays in 2023, come the trade deadline, it’s possible a team gives the Pirates what they are asking for
Desperate team are known for giving away the farm to reach the World Series
If so then come August second he might be a Padre
and he might be a Brave, Dodger, Yankee or any other team in the playoff race
These type of scenarios never make any sense, Reynolds doesn’t wanna play for Pit, nearly zero chance (probably less than zero) he resigns with PIT. His return won’t get better and probably only get worse while his years of control go down and his salary goes up. Why not just take the highest offer now? Or at least at the trade deadline, if Pit holds him for all of 23 what’s the point? Makes no sense!
Or, aggressively add to the team showing him you care about winning and then sign him to a long term extension…that’s not happening though.
“Why not just take the highest offer now?”
Because, Pitt can get a much better deal the longer they wait. Spring Training or mid-season, when players begin to go down with injuries, he would be a much better trading chip.
I clearly said before next year but reading is hard apparently!
Why would Pitt want a malcontent playing for their team? Does this help his value? His stock is high now. His displeasure might lessen his value. Trade him now.
Reynolds has said he won’t allow his request to affect his playing ability
He’s not that kind of person
Instead of whining, Reynolds can simply play his way out of Pittsburgh by having a good and productive 1st half of 2023. Could be a win-win for everyone.
Reynolds is under control for 3 years, that’s the point
There’s no reason to take a package now that will still be there next offseason, except for the risk of injury/poor performance.
For a team that cares about $ obviously it is in their best interest to trade sooner than later! And how do you know his value will go up or not? Plus the sooner they trade him the sooner the prospects they can back can be traded (you know they will)…. They want a sky high package instead of a great package, they will still get great next year but saved 6 million
This isn’t the Neil Huntington regime, who traded high end players for over the hill Chris Archer
Ben Cherington is a shrewd GM, he’s not going to trade Reynolds until next year when playoff potential teams are in need of his services or their own players become injured.
Let me know when Cherington makes a trade as shrewd as the one Huntingdon made to get Reynolds.
66-Amen.
Huntington was GM for 9 years, this is only Cherington’s 3rd, so there’s not a fair comparison
OK…
Let me know when Cherington makes a deal as good as the McLouth for Morton, Locke and Hernandez deal.
A future star pitcher, a future innings eater who peaked at a fluke All Star appearance and a useful bench player for a soon to quickly decline player.
Morton was never a star pitcher here. Or in Philly. He learned to pitch in Houston. Period. You call Locke “an innings eater” but that’s more reflective of the era. He often pitched like he was going to pee his pants
I’ll grant you that Huntington made some good trades but let’s not overdo it
As long as salaries keep escalating, younger guys like Reynolds will play for their next contract.
Look, he’s played for a bad team since he’s been here, and after having watched the past train wreck of a season, it can’t get worse. He’s smart enough to know the system now
Misconception here
Reynolds never said he didn’t want to play for the Pirates, he said he wants traded so he can receive the contract he deserves
Berger-That is what they did with Gerrit Cole and have gotten ridiculed for it for years.
Musgrove was basically the key to the return,and Moran was a placeholder.
Do you think that Reynolds will no longer try to do a good job?
They will get plenty for him in a year and a half meanwhile having him help to make this at least a competitive team that has taken shape and they will know what they will need to get better.
In retrospect, Miami should’ve taken that deal in a heartbeat. Meyer looks like a back end bullpen arm as opposed to a starter in scouts eyes. Watson has well documented attitude issues. Marlins would’ve done well in that trade.
Sure, with the injury to Meyer, a deal of Meyer, Watson and even adding in Sixto for Reynolds seems good.
You play Reynolds in 2023 and 2024, and you trade him in mid-2025 to get one good prospect back if you are not in WC race.
The flip side of the coin is that with mega-teams like LA, SD, Mets, Atlanta and Philadelphia, Reynolds is probably not enough to make the playoffs unless they are expanded pasty six teams.
Maybe better to just pick-up a stopgap like Adam Duvall or Will Myers on a 1-2 year deal rather than trading prospects away if you can’t make the post-season.
Well someone has to win the Central 🙂
Stretch-Many of the posters here are in love with “prospects”
I do not have a problem if you get at least three for one and they are high level who are or almost ML ready..I think that BC is now looking for that type as opposed to the lower level ones that he needed to build the farm system up from mediocrity.
He needs to keep Reynolds for the fans and to try to escape the three and a half year record of awful baseball.
I agree. Use him until you get what you want or trade him later after he produces for a year or more.
Marlins will bend on Eury, Meyer, Sixto and Stallings for Reynolds
You are insane, we’d never do that!
You’re living in fantasyland, bmcferren, it’s doubtful the Marlins offered those players and equally doubtful Cherington would accept them
He’s on record saying he wants at least one major league ready outfielder
you underestimate the risk from Rickety and Crickety (Meyer and Sixto)
he never said that
links or it never happened
Lol Eury is not going anywhere
Jason Bay had 10 WAR combined in his 26/27 year old seasons. He only had one more season in his career like those. Bryan Reynolds has 10.8 WAR the past 2 years in his 26/27 year old seasons, wonder how many more he will have
Comeon jays give moreno + orelvis+dasan brown for reynolds both sides are happy. But trade will never happy and jays are not trading teiderman but stranger things have happened( see nick frasso trade)
No.
1st, that’s way too much.
2nd, Pittsburgh doesnt want another C, I believe they have 2 coming and one is rated as highly as Moreno
3rd. Orelvis is probably replacing Bo when we trade him for a SP
This is all on Chaim Bloom embarrassing them with the Chris Archer trade lol
How was the Archer trade an embarrassment (in retrospect)?
Baz is still in the minors and just had TJ
Meadows couldn’t stay healthy and was traded
Glasnow has pitched a total of 38 games in 4 years.
At the time the archer trade was praised by everyone in the local media and fans. I know they gave up a lot. Shame archer was a bust. But the players the pirates gave up..meadows problems with his psych. Glad now is injury prone and the other has Tommy John surgery. No trade is guaranteed
Yeah, no it wasn’t. Might’ve been praised by yinzer idiots and media puppets, but that’s about it. Any intelligent fan knew the Bucs were only on a hot streak and weren’t an Archer away from contention
Agreed, admiral. My thinking was that you were trading 3 promising prospects for a so-so pitcher (at best) as you tried to pursue…..a wild card berth?
Tired- That was their goal to make the playoffs after two years of mediocrity.
Some people and many posters think that it is then a crapshoot.
I think that the best team quite often wins and you have to have three stud pitchers and a couple of superstars or lucky hitters to come out on top.
As good as the Pirates were for three years look what it got them.
It was their goal, but they still weren’t an Archer away from achieving that. Nutting thought that adding the name would put more fans in seats, but a lot of people knew that Archer had been significantly declining and, more importantly to Nutting, had affordable controllable years. Optimists may have viewed the trade as even… Until Baz was the PTBNL
Admiral-I think that Nutting told NH that he wanted to get to the wild card game and NH figured that this would be the best way to do it.Meadows was stymied by the outfield regulars with Dickerson replacing Cutch and having Marte and Polanco playing well and having Reynolds near ready.Glasnow had had three years of ML chances with absolutely no improvement.Current posters either don’t know nor recall or ignore what was going on.
The addition of Baz it seemed to me at the time was a big mistake and probably not even necessary.
We’re on the same page here, Mendoza. Glasnow was never going to make it with the Pirates, based on the philosophy that the pitching coaches were forcing upon him. You could see he was a deer in the headlights out there and was unable to utilize his dynamic stuff, as he was being pigeon holed into utilizing only the bottom 3rd of the zone. Hard to get guys out when they know where the pitches are going to be, which resulted in TG overthrowing instead of pitching. Meadows was redundant at the time.
I heard the Pirates wanted the Red Sox to time warp back to 1919 and give them some pitcher named Ruth.
I heard Ruth was overrated. Probably best if the Pirates keep what they have.
You heard he was a hot dog instead of the fact that he ATE a lot of hot dogs.
Natural mistake lol
In 1901 the Pirates had a little known player named Honus Wagner
Sounds like someone who won’t do much in the league. Probably best to trade him to the Baltimore Orioles or Brooklyn Superbas.
If it would throw off the trajectory of the Yankees and therefore reduce the arrogance of their fans who claim title to tens of championships they’ve never seen, I’m all for it. Get Doc that flux capacitor, ASAP.
The Mariners were smart to reject that absurd deal. They are very happy due to it, and the other prospects would only be part of the package, so the ones that aren’t quite that valuable now wouldn’t have been an underpay for Reynolds necessarily. Just seeing that they could have had Rodriguez makes me laugh. I have contempt for those who have delusional asking prices for stars and then don’t even resign them. I mean, these guys sell seats, but they aren’t going to help if they hit free agency. They don’t seem interested in signing him. They should sell him before he ends up with another 0.600 ish OPS season, at which point they would be lucky to get any top 100 prospect.
Second time I’m responding as apparently the first didn’t make the cut.
You write about your contempt for those who have delusional asking prices….
Here in Pittsburgh and I suspect many small market fan bases, we have contempt for GM’s from big market teams—and their fans—who believe giving peanuts in return for a star player is appropriate
@66TheNumber…lays it out pretty well below. Teams like the Pirates only have themselves to blame for setting the precedent of accepting low ball offers
But MLB is a facade now, in actuality. It’s a large market driven league, more reminiscent of the old barnstorming days of the ‘20’s and ‘30’s—when teams would travel by train to the Midwest and west to play teams from smaller teams—to drum up support for the game. In essence, that’s all we have now, if you think about it
DBacks fan here, can confirm we also hate it when large markets seem to think that they’re more deserving of the talent than small markets who sat through all the lean years for potentially the hope of seeing a good product on the field; as far as I’m concerned it’s disrespectful.
It’s getting old telling people who legitimately believe trades like Gleybar Torres for Daulton Varsho are equal value, or think that their team deserves a discount because the DBacks have so many CFs that they won’t miss one, that they’re out of their minds.
Fortunately the DBacks are in a good place talent/leverage wise; I hope Pitt could see some similar results soon in spite of their owner.
The Rangers have been a small market team for the majority of their existence. Also, they have dealt a boatload of prospects over time. I can say it really annoyed me as a Rangers’ fan when they didn’t trade Perez or Moore for whatever the could get. Now, Moore is a free agent looking to get overpaid, and Perez is the most overpaid pitcher in MLB besides Patrick Corbin. I am glad they made deals and didn’t let their egos get the best of them in many cases, but the absurdity of keeping Perez to give him a QO is beyond comprehension. Also, Varsho is hardly the superstar Bref seems to show him to be. Most of his value is from defense, which Bref greatly overvalues compared to other sites. Ben Zobrist was better in 2011 than Miguel Cabrera, Jose Bautista, and many others according to this defense-first site. It’s one thing for teams to feel “entitled” to a king’s ransom; it’s quite another thing to be living in another universe. If the Rangers asked for a few top 100 prospects for Gallo, that would be the latter. I do understand the pain of rebuilding. Trust me. It’s just that facts should take precedence over feelings and spite.
Texas has actually been a small market team for a long time. It is only recently that they have started spending money. They had a bottom 3 payroll in 2010 with their world series team. Here is my thing: Texas has traded a few guys while contending for prospects (Keone Kela and some others I can’t remember), and they have traded even more while not contending, but the thing is that they at least decided to trade their guys when they should have to rebuild the farm and help the team in the long run. They dealt Darvish, Lynn, Minor, Hamels, Gallo, Gibson, and Bush since they knew they weren’t resigning them or had no use (though Gibson and Bush may have been useful in upcoming seasons). Also, they did get a top 100 guy for Darvish who didn’t turn out well, but Lynn was a very solid guy with innings pitched and ERA+. who was top Cy Young finisher, and he really only got Dane Dunning. Gibson had 1.5 years of control, and Bush had some left, and both got non top 100 prospects. Gallo got 0 top 100 prospects at the time (though Duran was top 100 midseason). My point is that Reynolds may have 3 years vs 1 or 1.33 years of control, but he isn’t that much better than guys who have been dealt, and the arrogance annoys me. I don’t expect teams to extend all their superstars, but they should be realistic about contention and shouldn’t hold onto a player out of spite towards other teams to say. “Na na, we have him and you don’t..” Trades in general are meant to create wealth by dealing from an area of relative strength to fill an area of weakness, and guys like this are just pitying everyone. Given the guys I have listed, nobody is giving peanuts for superstars. They just aren’t giving a king’s random. I saw an article that said the Pirates were looking for a Soto-like return. What do you think about asking for 3 or 4 of MLB’s top 100 prospects for someone like this? The Rangers went from having one of the worst farms to having a 6th ranked farm before even considering the Porter/Rocker situation and how they are getting the 4th pick this season. This is how and why you rebuild (minus giving an average Jon Gray 14 mil and giving a glove only Semien 25 mil).
DeGrom, you make a great many salient points and your insights are appreciated. I guess my only thoughts would be that while you describe both the standard rebuild process and extension of stars thoroughly, you apparently have not been privy to how things have been done with the Pirates over the past number of years
Yes, the rebuild process *should* entail all you have noted. Here, it’s been a case of trade, get prospects who are middling at best, draft , “develop” and mysteriously trade away as part of deals OR if the Pirates are in sniffing range of a wild card berth
The scattershot approach of the last couple of years of the last regime was almost certainly dictated by an ultra frugal owner:
-get rid of vets with big contracts
-get rid of budding stars
-get rid of top prospects
The rebuild process here has been a case of start, stop midstream, abandon, start again
The scouting here has been suspect, and player development has largely been a joke. It almost seems like something out of The Natural at times, as ownership hamstrings its own on field management
You talk about Reynolds here and you’re right, he’s not a superstar. He’s not Soto and not deserving of a similar haul in return. Where most of us would disagree with you is on the usage of the term “arrogance”
Most Pirates fans are tired of watching their team getting poached. Most are sick of a team that loses on the field and acquiesces so completely to the bigger clubs. Again, @66 detailed the scenario quite nicely when he said opposing GM’s even expect it
I look at Cherington asking for so much as refreshing whether they extend the guy or not. And I hope isn’t just blather for public consumption
Lastly, I could devote an entire thread as to how and why Pirate ownership is unlike the Rangers but will spare you. All it would take is for you to read through literally any Pirates thread. This isn’t an owner who cares about building or re-building, or being marginally competitive
DeGrom-Rodriguez seems like a superstar but only time will tell.
And why shouldn’t the Pirates have asked for him.It was the Mariners who made the first phone call.
Sooner or later teams and fans are going to realize realize that Bryan belongs in LF and can play CF for a few games if his teams CF needs a day off or has a minor injury. He doesn’t especially run the bases well, nor does he come off as having anything more than an average Baseball IQ.
But he’s the best ML player currently on the Pirates so people think he’s some sort of superstar in the making.
His bWAR and fWAR in 2022 was 2.9, and he wasn’t injured for a period of time.
A nice player to have, but hardly someone that’s worth all the pub he’s been getting nor worth anywhere near the reported Pirates asking price.
A team would be better off with Andrew Benintendi.
Your numbers are correct but you’re missing a bit of logic.
How is Reynolds better? $$$$
Very good player, with 3 control years left, but not quite a star.
Samuel- The Pirates are asking for a lot because they realize that prospects are just prospects and Reynolds is a fine player who is,yes,a left fielder.
They also do not want to trade him yet.
BC is correct in not undervaluing him as his current value to the Pirates is very high.
Cherington is smart to set a high price and stick to it.
Teams KNOW they can pick the Pirates’ bones clean like vultures because Nutting is cheap and they make terrible offers for Pirate players.
Ex.: People acted like they ignored a bunch of great offers from other teams to take the Astros package for Gerritt Cole.
No. Teams offered junk knowing the Pirates would have take one of their lowball offers eventually.
At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand so other teams will deal in even semi-good faith.
66- Amen again.
PLEASE, Pirates, sign Austin Hedges TODAY to prevent CLE from making the incredibly stupid decision to bring him back. They prioritized Sean Murphy who ATL just landed.
Solaris- That would be a good thing for the Pirates to do assuming that he is a free agent.
Trading Reynolds??? We are taking about a star (not super star) level player that is coming into his prime years. In 2022, his numbers dropped from the high expectations he had established, but he was playing on a team built through waiver wire claims (no protection in the batting order).
The Pirates greatest weakness (among many) is their offense. Pitching is too volatile, and doesn’t help if you can’t score runs. So, it would be foolish to trade for pitching.
Yankees: Anthony Volpes/Jasson Dominguez + (Gleyber Torres/Spencer Jones)?
Blue Jays: Gabriel Moreno. Unfortunately, not much after that near MLB ready.
Braves: Not much to offer that would help.
Marlins. Pitching prospects. Pass on that. With them in the same division as the Mets, Phillies, and Braves, they shouldn’t be trading prospects at this time.
Phillies. They have Abel and Painter. But where would the offense come from?
Dodgers: Gavin Lux/Miguel Vargas/Bobby Miller/Dustin May?
Orioles/DBacks:: Have the prospects, but need to look to the future with them.
Twins: Brooks Lee/Alex Kirilloff. (Royce Lewis/Connor Prielipp). Kirilloff is from Pittsburgh. This is where I could see value going both ways (with Pittsburgh adding from a group consisting of: Rodolpho Castro, Diego Castillo, Liover Peguero, Nick Gonzales). If the Twins are able to re-sign Correa, this could be a difference maker in their division. I think Correa’s status impacts whether this would be a good idea for the Twins.
Notice how Bednar is not showing interest in staying . He’s waiting for Reynolds to go then he can follow suit.
I haven’t noticed that at all
The Bednars still live in Mars, PA
The kid is quoted as loving Pittsburgh
But he also notes he understands it’s a business.
Whether he wants to stay or not, as a stud reliever he’ll be a commodity at deadline time and we already know the allegiance to Pittsburgh Nutting has when it comes to guys who live here like Neil Walker or Cutch
A bit over stated…
Nutting generally stays out of the decisions unless they are situations like Cutch who at the time was a franchise player. In fact the front office had to persuade Nutting to trade Cutch. Nutting didn’t want to let him go.
There also was a strong effort to keep Walker (according the the front office at the time) and it didn’t work out.
I’m glad walker and the fort are back.
Thanks for that note. Almost makes me see Nutting as a mensch. Almost
Pissed the Mariners didn’t pull the trigger on the JRod for Reynolds package. My Mariners always a day late and a dollar short lol. Oh well.
I hope Bednar does get extended.. hopefully he’ll take a bit of a discount to do so… I also hope the front office doesn’t exploit the home town too much.
With the moves the pirates are making it almost seems that they’re hoping for a turn around this season. Some of these signings do well and the young guys step up a bit (pitching especially) then .500 looks like a realistic end point.
Yeah there are some IFs there, but it is many fewer IFs than the past couple years.
Still, i’d be throwing money at Reynolds to add on a couple years. If the pirates can make some other moves to bring in stronger more of a ‘sure thing’ talent it would show him and us that the pirates don’t want to just roll over much longer.
Joe, .500 is a bit of a pipe dream, no? To me, if they win 75, you give Shelton the key to the city and a lifetime pass at Golden Corral
I like the Bednar story although teams started to catch on to him before his injury. Could be a tired arm. Hope so
Yeah, I like the progress Keller made. I see promise in Contreras and Oviedo. But their pitching last year had this love affair with throwing pitches dead red
Defensively they were bad. Offensively they were worse. And their manager was all over the map where “strategies” were concerned
I dunno
They’ve added a few castoffs again at 1st and on the mound. Not sure how this will bring 20 more wins, but who knows?
@tired
If 1b works out with Santana / Choi both which have had 100 or more OPS+ much of their careers with Santana as a 3rd catcher and Choi also an OF…
Andujar, Reynolds in the OF
Bae, Cruz up the middle with Pegeuro and Gonzalez at some point.
Hayes at third.
Moving Cruz out of the INF would be an instant boost in defense in my opinion. I’d like to see him at first because of his size and flexibility but that would be a huge waste of his arm. I think he could be one of the best defensive outfielders in the league with his speed and arm.
They need a pitchers catcher until they call up Edny and pitchers to perform
Keller continues his work, Contrreras, Ortiz, Brubaker, Oviedo (maybe a reliever) has a fair chance of being in the middle of the pack in the league over all from the rotation.
There are a lot of Ifs but many fewer than the past few years. IMO at worst a 70 Game winner. at best 82 as it stands right now with no other moves and few injuries.
Shelton was throwing crap at the wall to see what would stick… I give him a little slack… but I don’t think he is a solution when prospects really start pouring in. He’s a warm body
It is near impossible, but if they could get someone like Cueto to fill out the rotation that could be pretty amazing. He performed well enough to get on a team that has more of a contender position though.