December 4: Scott Merkin of MLB.com reports that the deal has become official. Clevinger will earn $8MM in 2023, with a $12MM mutual option for the 2024 season that has a $4MM buyout. The White Sox 40-man roster is now at 36.
November 28: Jim Bowden of The Athletic reports that the guarantee is $12MM.
November 27: The White Sox have agreed to a one-year deal with right-hander Mike Clevinger, and the contract will become official once Clevinger passes a physical. Clevinger, represented by ACES, will earn over $8MM in guaranteed money.
After undergoing a Tommy John surgery that sidelined him for the entirety of the 2021 season, Clevinger returned to the Padres in May. He experienced a noticeable drop in velocity, with his fastball averaging 93.5 MPH compared to 95 MPH during the 2019 and 2020 seasons — this likely contributed to a decreased strikeout rate (18.8% in 2022 compared to 27.5% in 2020 and 22.6% in 2019). Nevertheless, Clevinger was able to pitch 114 1/3 regular season innings of 4.33 ERA ball, with a 7.2% walk rate, and 35.2% groundball rate. He also started a pair of playoff games, allowing seven earned runs in 2 2/3 innings.
The White Sox now have a projected staff of Dylan Cease, Lance Lynn, Lucas Giolito, and Michael Kopech, though Kopech is recovering from a left knee strain and right shoulder inflammation. The addition of Clevinger likely closes the book on a potential Johnny Cueto return. Cueto proved invaluable after signing a minor league deal with the Sox, posting a 3.35 ERA in 158 1/3 frames.
Though Clevinger’s post-Tommy John work was uninspiring, some teams may hope further distance from the surgery and/or tweaks to his repertoire may aid him in rediscovering his 2017-2019 form, where the righty pitched 447 2/3 innings with a 2.96 ERA, 28.3% strikeout rate, 9.1% walk rate, and 40.2% groundball rate.
The Padres acquired Clevinger from the Indians in a nine-player trade at the 2020 trade deadline. It’s worth noting that the White Sox were also in the mix for the pitcher they knew so well from the AL Central, though Ken Rosenthal reported at the time that the Sox felt they were something of a “stalking horse,” as Cleveland never intended to move the righty to a division rival. Clevinger made four starts after the deal, but was then scratched for what was at the time called biceps tightness and later revised to an elbow sprain. The Padres brought him back for Game 1 of the NLDS that year, but he was pulled from the start and was on the operating table facing Tommy John surgery the following month.
At the time of the TJ announcement, the Padres also bought out Clevinger’s final two arbitration years for a total of $11.5MM, effectively paying him that amount for what he could contribute in ’22. Though Clevinger remarked in March, “I feel healthier than I have in my entire career,” he sprained his knee shortly thereafter, leading to a May 4th season debut. He hit the IL again after three starts due to a triceps strain.
Over his first ten games, Clevinger was able to miss bats at an above average 24.7% clip. Over his last 11 starts, however, Clevinger punched out only 13.5% of opposing batters. Clevinger’s fastball had a pronounced decline as the season wore on, occasionally working at 95+MPH in some of his earlier starts versus a few sub-93 MPH games in the dog days of summer. Although, this was the first time he had pitched over 42 innings in a season since 2019 and some fatigue was expected.
With a cast of unproven hurlers vying for the fifth starting spot and Kopech recovering from knee surgery, starting pitching was certainly on GM Rick Hahn’s to-do list heading into the offseason. However, Hahn said earlier this month that the team was somewhat limited financially, and the Sox weren’t going beyond the roughly $193MM payroll (a club record) spent last season. Other reports suggested that number might be closer to $180MM, and depending on just how much over $8MM Clevinger is receiving, Roster Resource estimates that the White Sox are already close to that $180MM figure.
As it happens, that $8MM-ish payday for Clevinger comes close to the $8MM that AJ Pollock left on the table by declining his player option for the 2023 season. Pollock wasn’t expected to decline his option, so in that sense, Clevinger’s signing might almost be found money for the front office — and he’ll become an even bigger bargain if he returned to his pre-Tommy John form. MLBTR ranked Clevinger 49th on our list of the winter’s top 50 free agents, and projected him for a one-year, $10MM.
The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal was the first to report that Clevinger and the White Sox had agreed to a deal. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (Twitter links) reported the terms and length of the contract.
29 teams just dodged a bullet!
Just ask the Guardians….they know when to dump and I mean dump a SP
Also, at the time they dumped him, Clevinger was at the height of his career. It paid off for the Indians but they dodged a bullet.
His delivery is violent and puts a lot of strain on the elbow and shoulder. Similar to Kevin Appier.
This is such an extremely ignorant comment it’s almost unreal it was even said. How could signing a pitcher to a one year deal when you need pitching ever be bad? A guy who will actually be healthy to start the season at that. What a wild take and even wilder that 22 people actually agree with you. Cubs suck.
Let’s hope this works!
I am certain Clevinger can also provide leadership to any young Sox pitchers coming up from the minors !
Mushrooms?
Leadership!? How about his “leadership” during the height of the Covid crisis?
And his leadership when he was out on the town with Z Plesac, when they came to Chicago.
@Didlz – I completely agree. Plus, almost everyone I’ve ever heard that talks about coming back from TJ talks about how you really don’t get the feel for your pitches until that second year away from surgery.
I would have LOVED for the Braves to sign him for 8mil on a 1yr deal. You’d have to be truly ignorant not to want to sign that deal.
Plus, it isn’t like the White Sox even need him to be back to his old self, they just need him to be a reliable back of the rotation pitcher that’s going to give them a chance to win each start out, and I fully believe Clevinger can easily do that for Chicago.
You aren’t going to get a better value for that 8mil, the stupidity of some people baffles me.
Worst case scenario he gets hurt again, or he doesn’t pitch well, either way it’s only a ONE YEAR DEAL!!
The ONLY argument that can be made against signing this deal is if you found a better way to spend that 8mil. For the upside that Clevinger brings, you aren’t finding that. 8mil is chump change on the SP market, especially for a 1yr deal.
Plus, you might say, “well so and so ending up getting a 3yr 24 mil deal, they could have signed him.” Again, that player signed a three year deal, they weren’t signing a 1yr deal, and if they were they would have demanded more money…
This is a great deal for the White Sox, and Clevinger is going to be fully motivated to prove they made a great decision..
I swear, I honestly don’t think some people even think before they spew out such ignorant things. Honestly, he’s likely just a troll, and doesn’t even believe what he wrote..
The worst part of it all is the other 30 morons that agreed with him…Clowns..
This is a win-win deal for the White Sox. Afterall, there is a reason the following quote exists, “there is no such thing as a bad one year deal.”
Congrats White Sox fans, you guys just got an excellent deal..
Should of used that money on Abreu instead of a broken pitcher.
Excellent deal? We will see. It should be an upgrade over Johnny Cueto and potentially a very good signing
Actually I agree with much of this. I might not go all the way out on the Excellent limb, but he’s been OK, he seems as healthy as he gets at this age, and most importantly he wasn’t signed to be anywhere near the top of the rotation. This is a far better deal than, say, Archer and Bundy in MIN last year. It just costs money, it’s not a long term commitment and he only has to Not Suck for this to meet expectations. Not a lot to hate.
Hey now, I’m a Cubs fan who doesn’t hate on or artificially bash the White Sox. I actually thought this was a really smart move by the WS. Clevenger may or may not get his 2019 form back, but for 1 year at this $ – it’s a more than worthy gamble.
I kind of thought Clevinger would end up on the North Side due to his connection with the Cubs front office and Yan Gomes.
I’m not sure if the Cubs had interest in Clevinger or not, if they did not, it would speak volumes of how Carter Hawkins felt about how things ended between Clevinger and Cleveland.
I wish he would have gone to the north side He’d fit in fine with a rebuilding team. I’ve noticed the cubs have been releasing players right andeft the last two seasons. They could easily show clevinger the door if he doesn’t work out instead of holding onto past-it players like grandal.
$8m-1 year of Clevinger is a dodged bullet? And you’re a cubs fan??
Check back during October when Sox are in the World Series!
Let’s not be presumptuous, my fellow sox fan.
Doing what? Checking coats?
Redsoxs?
If the White Sox are in the World Series, it just means they all bought tickets
I watched a lot of Padres games and my opinion on Clevinger stands.
I have nothing against the White Sox and imagine they will be in the race to win the division in 2023 along with Cleveland and Minnesota. I would have said this of any other team had signed Clevinger, too.
That’s a pretty interesting take on Clevinger. The guy clearly isn’t a number 2 anymore (at least at the moment), but an $8M inning-eating, back-end SP is not a bad signing–especially one who could hypothetically return to his previous form with a full offseason to get healthy.
@myaccount2 – One of the more intelligent takes on here, thank you.
I don’t know; he smells like a number 2 to me.
Preller, the “rock star GM,” has proven to not how to assemble a roster. This is why every year he has to scramble to make dramatic moves, rebooting his lineup.
He’s the crummy outfielder that due to his substandard acumen, has to attempt a diving catch all the time.
Manny, you are right. The 2nd Tommy John makes it as close to certain as you can get that Clevinger will never again be a solid starter.
Add to the near 100% failure of pitchers to be a solid starter after their 2nd Tommy John the fact that Clevinger is going to have to totally retool his mechanics with the pitch clock in 2023 and its like watching a train wreck.
Been to the playoffs 2 of the past 3 years. Yeah, overrated
also a padres fan and not only was he still so close to his 2nd tj but his knee was clearly bothering him most of the year and costing him some velo and comfort on the hill. I really expect a solid bounce back season with good health and being further away from the TJ. he may not get back to pre 2019 levels but I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he performs more like a mid rotation arm than the solid back end arm he was last year. if\when that happens he’ll be among the very best bargain signings of the off-season. I usually enjoy \agree with your takes, Manny but that’s a bad take
What makes you think he’s going to be an innings eater?
I think the implication is the necessity of Clevinger pitching at a high level for the White Sox versus the small likelihood of that outcome given both proven regression and an inability to stay healthy.
The White Sox needed to go out and get a top line starter. And once again they’re overspending on a lottery ticket.
They should’ve signed Cueto. He not only saved their botts more than one time this season, he usually pitched into the eighth inning. He also stepped in on only two or three days rest when one of the other sp was taken out in the second or third inning. A good pitcher and an even better teammate.
Cueto appears to have a good season followed by a bad one in his recent history, which is why its likely the Sox are moving away from him. Clevenger would be a good deal for any team that is rebuilding or on the bubble in terms of being competitive (and therefore being a trade chip in the middle of the season if they do well), not supposed to be a ‘hope’ for a team wanting to ‘win it all’ that has a lot of ‘hopes’, ‘but’, and ‘what ifs’ already.
Halos need Cueto!!!
I say it’ll be $8 mil for less than a year. He’ll just get paid as if he played the entire season.
Did you see him pitch in the NLCS? That’s how he pitched the few times he started. Just giving you heads up.
wrong
This is the same team that traded Fernando tatis Jr for James Shields right?
His entire tenure with the Padres was bad. Not sure why Preller signed him to a 2 year deal after they knew he was having TJ surgery. Not a single one of those type of deals has worked out. This one certainly didn’t. $11.5 million for 22 starts at a 4.33 ERA is not good value for your money.
The elephant in the room is that Clevinger has now had 2 Tommy John surgeries. Only 2 starting pitchers have returned to being even close to as effective as they were before the 2nd Tommy John. Other than those 2, not one starter has returned and put up a season with an ERA better than 4.
I wish him all the best. I just don’t think that best will be very good.
Clevinger has been such a good pitcher for a very long time. Just needs to recover from injury. Love this signing.
It is a really good signing. Not gonna be a long term commitment. Upside with a respectable floor in case he doesn’t improve. Could be a #2-ish starter if he gets back to old form. Proved he was healthy. It’s not long term and has upside. That’s what I want personally in a free agent signing. If they are out of it he could be traded at deadline.
He is definitely a #2 on Sox staff.
He’s definitely number two, if you catch my drift.
“Clevinger has been such a good pitcher for a very long time.”
Rangers29;
Clevinger was a very good pitcher for 3 years (2017-19).
Cleveland got rid of him at the right time. While he may pitch better than he has the past 3 years, I doubt Cleveland being in the Sox’s division are particularly scared of facing him.
P.S. Cleveland got back Cal Quantrill back for him – who’s pitched better than Clevinger. They also got back catcher Austin Hedges, 1B Josh Naylor, and infielders Gabriel Arias and Owen Miller that just came up this past year.
Baseball fans in Cleveland love A.J. Preller!
as well what’s annual mm? how can you judge with out knowing what they are paying? he has/had a high ceiling, maybe he turns it around, it’s 50/50 for me. so a lottery ticket.
All this talk about clevinger “maybe”turning things around. The people who posted that sound like uneducated cubs fans. This is another example of the Sox getting a player on the cheap instead of a pit her that could help them be a contender again. Maybe Hahn got him because he fits in with the rest of the team with all of his injuries. They should have signed Cueto and left clevinger on an ice flow with grandal. Terrible acquisition.
Ice “floe.”
Carry on.
It’s not just about turning it around with him. He’s had 2 TJS, there is a real question about whether or not he’s physically able to pitch effectively at this point.
Giolito is as good as gone. Likely headed to S Calif. The CWS could fill a hole at 2B by flipping him along with one of their excess DH or 1B types.
@Dogbone- Yeah Gleyber Torres and Aaron Hicks for Lucas Giolito, definitely makes a lot of sense for both teams.
@99. Wrong coast. But that’s an interesting idea since it plugs a couple of needs the CWS have.
@Dogbone
Who’s replacing “good as gone” Lucas Giolito in the White Sox rotation? ‘Gio’ is projected for a $10.8M salary this season in his final arbitration year. Many fans here are suggesting that Mike Clevenger was a value signing at $8M. Giolito’s value figures to be much higher with his more recent success along with the fact he is entering his walk year.
If the White Sox entertain any thoughts of trading Giolito they are going to need another potential top of the rotation SP to replace him. Simply signing Clevenger and then trading Giolito leaves the White Sox rotation in a worse spot. They won’t find a comparable SP in free agency for $10.8M. The front office would either need a pitcher back in a multi-player blockbuster featuring Giolito (the Dodgers or Padres make some sense) or they will need to find a seperate trading partner to acquire another SP.
The Dodgers make the most sense if Hahn can pry Gavin Lux away in a mega trade that also includes an arm coming back to the ChiSox. The Dodgers might also be interested in one of the White backend relievers. The White Sox are desperate for an impact lefty bat to help balance out a lineup that has struggled versus RHP for what seems like forever. Lux would plug two holes as a second baseman. I could also envision a potential Padres deal if the White Sox target their future core catcher and a SP with Giolito as a centerpiece.
*White Sox backend end relievers. lol
Chicago has two ‘closers’ in Liam Hendriks and Kendall Graveman, one of whom might interest the Dodgers in a blockbuster featuring Giolito and others. If Rick Hahn and Andrew Friedman really wanted to pull off a blockbuster perhaps SS Tim Anderson’s name could also be discussed?
If not Lux, then a deal for Kirk catcher and Merrifield 2B and LF from Blue Jays would work. Multi player deal, if lucky throw in TA and get Bichette.
The Blue Jays trio of young starting catchers and the A’s with Sean Murphy make sense if the White Sox prioritize their future core catcher in a trade. Only Toronto would have interest in Lucas Giolito with the White Sox also potentially enticed with Merrifield and/or Bichette. Chicago would still need to replace Giolito in their rotation. Aside from rotation help, the Blue Jays and White Sox also share a common need for more impact left-handed hitters to balance out their right-handed leaning lineups making a potential blockbuster trade between the two more problematic.
Friedman won’t play Anderson at SS. Maybe he’d play him in the outfield.
Giolito’s ‘Recent’ success? What, becoming a typical pitcher.. Have Sox fans set the bar THAT low now?! And before you start saying.. “but he has a no hitter”.. My response to that is: Phil Humber has a perfecto, where is he at these days?
Giolito was awful last year, and that was after the guy turned down an extension (one would think you would pitch your very best to ‘prove the team wrong’, not prove them right). Gio also is NOT a top of the rotation guy, I think on his best days he is a 3rd guy in the rotation at this point and I doubt anyone is giving a top or even good prospect in their org for such a player. AS for a lefty bat, The Sox are better off ‘hoping’ that Colas can hit anywhere close to how he does in the minors and put him in an OF corner and finding a top notch FA for the other side, but we all know the Sox will not do that, they’ll spend the absolutely least time, energy, and most importantly, money, to build this supposedly ‘win now’ team.
Lets face it, the only GM that would fleece themselves out of good players for Gio is the one that currently has GIO now.
Then get another starter by moving Hendricks and ? for Flexen, and Brash or Kirby. Maybe Seattle will take Lopez in the mix. Swapping Moncada for Suarez, or France adds more power. There’s enough there to mix and match.. Raleigh their catcher too. Merrifield career .985 fielding pct. can play anywhere and still hit .270 low cost contract.
TA won’t play OF thats why Sox have to be rid of him.
fastball dropped 2-3 mph on avg
I’m not schooled in history of tommy John recovery but presumably if the ligament is healthy the further he gets away from it the better it might get. I know Verlander and guys came right back to greatness tho. But it could just take changing up his arm exercise regimen. Who knows
But yea. I noticed the Ks were way down. Still could learn to pitch that way but likely not gonna return to being as good as he was without an uptick or some reinventing of himself. At the very least maybe one day he will be a bullpen arm and have the velocity in smaller sessions.
YOU HOPE IT WORKS OUT
The history for people after #2 isn’t great.
Its Clevinger’s 2nd Tommy John. Only 2 starters have ever posted an ERA under 4.00 after a 2nd Tommy John.
AJ Preller has made some bad trades. Bet he wishes he had that 1 year of Justin Upton for Max Fried (and 3 other dudes…Jace Peterson, etc) trade back.
They likely only got rid of him because they are cheap and saw a good deal available (did I meantion they are cheap?). He had arbitration raises coming presumably. I’m retrospect he got hurt and they either got a bit lucky, scouted very well, or a bit of both.
*in* retrospect
Rishi;
Yes, Cleveland works on a budget (did I mention that they’re one of the best FO’s in MLB for years now – and currently have a team chock full of quality young players with even more in the high minors?).
Cleveland got rid of him because they were starting a rebuild on the fly, and knew he was headed downhill, so they looked for what they thought was the best deal. Around that time they traded Cory Kluber and sent him to the Rangers for so-so CF Delino DeShields Jr. and some young kid that they thought could pitch in the bullpen after they worked with him named Emmanuel Clase.
But your insights are correct – they ‘re just cheap and were probably lucky…after all, look how they got fleeced on that Lindor trade.
Good info. Yea, they clearly have a great front office to be so good on their budget. My problem is I checked out of baseball for 3 years and lost track of some of what went on between 2018-2020.
Rishi;
Oh. So all the good small market MLB teams compete every single year? (I noticed you popped over 2016 when the went to the WS).
Yes, one can tell how good a team and FO is by how much money they spend. Have to be a real smart, experienced fan to recognize that.
How many weeks have you been following MLB?
Who cares if he has arbitration raises coming? They didn’t have to pay those until AFTER 2020. Not before. Rebuilding on the fly NEVER works. Ever. You have to pick a direction and go all in on that direction.
You know you can write more than one paragraph in a post right? You don’t have to reply 4 times it can all be said in one post
Nah.
What does going all in even mean?
The Braves won a WS without Ronald Acuna.
The teams that go “all in” usually end up looking like the Padres or the Phils & have short contention windows. Cleveland can’t stay as competitive for them for long but they could conceivably find themselves in a WS next year without going stupid and unloading the controllable talent.
You have to be a little lucky to be good.
I doubt Cleveland knew Clevinger was about to break down physically. They took a package they liked and do a phenomenal job developing arms. Turned into an absolute robbery.
Though if Cal Q is in San Diego—he may never develop into the #3 starter he is today. Credit to CLE.
@BStrowman Name one team in this century that traded a core player in-season and won the WS that year. One.
Heck. Name one team in this century that traded a core player in-season and MADE IT to the World Series that year.
@BStrowman Now that they have Ruben Niebla he would have.
I don’t know RE: Niebla
We shall see. The padres haven’t developed their own starting pitching in some time.
They’ve traded away a lot of guys who other teams ended up developing. Mackenzie Gore will be an interesting case since he got to work with Niebla.
Semantically losing Ronald Acuna is the equivalent of trading your most important player away.
J-Ram and Lindor were far more important than Bauer or Cleve. It certainly didn’t improve their chances that year but you truly never know.
The pitching was still really good without those 3. They’re in an infinitely better position now with Quantrill/Naylor/Clase + prospects.
No one gets ‘fleeced’ on a deal, unless they fail to due their diligence on the trade.. Teams have armies of people on their staff working on trades (or should). No team fleeces another team in trades, end of story. If they were to try (say knowing something health wise about a player that the other team did not and they cover it up) I’m sure that’s a violation of the MLB rules.
“Semantically losing Ronald Acuna is the equivalent of trading your most important player away.”
They didn’t trade him. Nice try tho!
“J-Ram and Lindor were far more important than Bauer or Cleve. It certainly didn’t improve their chances that year but you truly never know.”
Clevinger was a core player, they traded him and they failed to win or even make the WS. That is all that matters.
“They’re in an infinitely better position now with Quantrill/Naylor/Clase + prospects.”
For one, Clase wasn’t in the Clevinger trade. For two, it was a win-later trade so it makes sense that Cleveland is now in a better position because of it. But why would you EVER make a win-later trade when you are trying to contend for a championship?
I was talking about both their deals there. Kluber included.
But CLEVE had made 4 starts and had a 5.66 FIP when they dealt him away. Hardly made him a huge key core contributor. He was their #3. Carrasco, Plesac and Bieber all out pitched him in Cleveland that year so really that could be considered generous.
You’ve got your stance on this and that’s fine. But losing a key core piece like Acuna is really no different than trading one away. They won a WS in spite of that. Cleveland could’ve ended up winning a WS with that rotation.
They didn’t though. & honestly I think they were fed up with Clevinger for going out during COVID. That very easily could’ve caused a rift in the clubhouse and perhaps he wasn’t much of an asset in that clubhouse at the time.
I don’t think Cleveland wins that WS with or without Clevinger. He was getting expensive and had just violated team rules so it was quite the opportunity to deal him. He pitched a total of 19 solid innings in San Diego before getting hurt and then just being bad.
Exactly. No one who is serious about contending trades their #3 starter. No one. The trade was always going to look good for them from a long-term surplus value perspective and it did but that was the type of trade a rebuilding team makes. Not a team that is supposedly trying to win the WS. Similarly, if the Padres had made the Joe Musgrove trade I floated last June it would have looked very good for them 2 years from now, especially if they brought Musgrove back as a FA. So why do you think the Padres didn’t do that?
Well The padres don’t develop pitchers.
Cleveland believes they can turn what they have into another Clevinger. & they do that.
Hell, even Quantrill gave them 14.2 innings of 1.84 ERA ball in 2020. Clevinger gave SDP 19 innings of 2.84 ball.
Hurt way less than you’re saying here. It wasn’t popular when they dealt Kluber in the off-season either. But both moves were correct ones.
Buying is almost always popular. Selling never is.
Clevinger wasn’t the reason they didn’t win a World Series.That deal might be part of the reason why they win their next one though.
They went “all in” & bought Hand and Miller before and that didn’t work out. But you leave yourself open for criticism when you decide to sell someone. That’s just the way the media and general fan base will run. But Cleveland knows what they’re doing.
I’d be fine if they traded Cal Quantrill at the trade deadline for a similar package to Clevinger. I trust that front office to find talent & they’ve let a lot of guys go at the right time.
Cleveland could open the wallet up a little more at times though. Certainly true. You can be a great organization and still be cheap at times. I’d like to see them add another LH starter this off-season.
We will never know if Cleveland would have won the WS in 2020 with Clevinger. We DO know they failed without him.
Whether or not trading those dudes were “correct moves” depends what the goal is. Is their goal to win a WS or is it to maximize surplus value from contracts even at the expense of potentially their first title since 1948? When you trade one guy for six, some of whom have no service time yet, it’s basically always going to end up a plus down the road. But if that was all that mattered then the Yankees would have traded Aaron Judge and the Astros would have traded Justin Verlander at the 2022 trade deadline, for instance. Why do you think those teams didn’t make those trades?
Selling can be very popular. Remember when the Yankees added a consensus top 10 prospect and some other dudes for 2 months of a reliever? Their fans were ecstatic.
You leave yourself open for criticism when you buy too. Just look at A. J. Preller. The Soto trade will likely cost him his job if the Padres don’t win one of the next 2 WS’s and they are unable to extend Soto, for instance.
No one is trading them something that will help them now for Quantrill. If they would rather kick the can down the road then that’s fine but given their current position and how weak the rest of their division is I think now is the time to “go for it.”
Red Sox, 2004, Nomahhhh!
Selling when in contention***
Selling typically isn’t popular in any media market though. I don’t think New Yorkers were stoked the day after they traded Chapman.
Clevinger was very briefly good (19 innings). Which is basically a worthless sample so Cleveland may have already seen something that just wasn’t right there.
& you’re using other organizations. Other small market organizations don’t just pump out great pitching like Cleveland.
& you bring up the Yankees. The bright organization that traded Jordan Montgomery so they could make room for Frankie Montas.
The cardinals made Monty better. The guardians make pitchers better. These organizations will have more opportunities for success than others because they develop.
I personally believe Quantrill has reached his ceiling. If some team was willing to give up a Mackenzie Gore or other type young pitcher they could work with like the Rays did with Glasnow. I’d jump all over it.
Not totally impossible. Teams that develop win ball games.
& the padres have not done well with all the assets Preller accumulated. I would never argue with that. He hasn’t built an organization that develops their own young talent.
Actually Yankees fans were thrilled about getting Gleyber Torres for a guy they were just going to bring back in 3 months.
The Guardians did not have 5 pitchers that were better than Clevinger when they traded him. If they knew something was wrong with him and didn’t tell A. J. Preller then he probably has a good case to get the trade nixed. Or at least get Cantillo and Arias back or something.
The Guardians are not trading Quantrill and making their team better for 2023-25. That would mean the other team is making themselves worse in both the short and long term… why would they do that?
Except Quantrill was more effective than Clevinger.
Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows and now Shane Baz are more useful than Chris Archer.
The guardians develop players. That is entirely possible. Buying low and selling high is a very real thing.
teams like the padres simply pay sticker price for players. If those players decline you get an Eric Hosmer, Will Myers, or Mike Clevinger & a bloated payroll.
It’s pretty simple.
team Y has a player who is pitching to a 3.25 ERA but you believe he’s been fortunate to do so. Team Y’s data says he’s more of a 4.5 ERA guy.
Team X believes in his actual numbers and will pay you a premium for that. Team X has a guy with talent who they haven’t developed. He has a 5.50 ERA and they can’t fix him. Based on your data— you believe you can easily turn this guy into a 3 ERA starter. They’ll give you him + prospects for your 3.25 ERA guy.
This kind of thing happen because player valuation is not uniform. & development sure as hell isn’t.
You don’t ever want to take anything off the ML roster. Ok, that’s fine. But there’s actual scenarios where teams get rid of guys they believe are overvalued relative to production and get a more valuable asset. Can happen immediately too.
Cleveland gets slammed for getting rid of Kluber and gets better production EVERY single season from Clase. Because they find and develop their talent. pretty darn good and knowing when it’s time to move on:
Nice try. The Guardians didn’t know Mike Clevinger would need TJ. And if they did and didn’t tell Preller before trading him then Preller probably has a legitimate case to have the trade nixed.
You never trade off the major league roster in-season when you are trying to contend. Never. Under no circumstances. There is a reason Cleveland hasn’t won the WS since 1948 and except for 2016 always gets bounced in the ALDS. It’s because rebuilding on the fly DOES. NOT. WORK!
@thelegendaryharambe
Ah, I see…if a team has a chance to win a World Series, they should never make a trade that immediately makes them a better team..
Got it.
@thelegendaryharambe
Teams with comparatively smaller recurring revenues who “go for it” invariably find themselves buried with no chance at competing at all. It’s nonsensical thinking “going for it” does anything more than increase your possibilities to win marginally at the risk of decreasing your chances over the long run significantly.
At the start of the playoffs this year, the juggernaut Dodgers had a mere 16% chance of winning it all. And of course we saw what happened to them. And yet, folks like you tut-tut teams who carefully and prudently run excellent organizations designed for consistent competitiveness knowing that more bites at the apple are better than one.
Please, stop with your big market lectures and small market prescriptions. It’s all nonsense.
@Avory The Clevinger trade didn’t immediately make the Guardians a better team. If it did then the Padres never would have made it. It was a win now trade for San Diego and a win later trade for Cleveland.
@Avory So we’re clear, you are saying that prospects are more important than championships? Is that where the disconnect is?
San Diego wasn’t interested in prospects. Cleveland made Quantrill better immediately and got a starting catcher immediately.
On top of that they also got Josh Naylor, a now productive 1B. + Gabriel Arias + Cantillo. That’s not even part of the argument though.
The kind of thing happens all the time when the other front office is better.
Stupid teams throw all their chips in for a short contention window. AJ Preller is now there. Hope they win a series this year. But this also has nothing to do w/ the argument.
Cleveland didn’t win anything that year because their entire outfield was absolutely awful. They didn’t have a major leaguer starter out there.
their net loss was 4.1 innings from Clevinger v. What Quantrill gave them in 2020.
You’re simply not accepting player development as part of the equation. The Yankees thought Frankie Montas was better than their prospect Ken Waldichuk (& Jordan Montgomery v. Harrison Bader) check the numbers after the deal.
Some teams make guys better. Naylor was also part of the equation because they immediately plugged him into their horrible OF. He wasn’t especially good right away but they even got him there eventually. Hedges was immediately playing at Catcher too.
Cleveland should’ve added a real outfielder or 2 and still made that trade 100/100 times
For the hundredth time, Cleveland didn’t know Mike Clevinger would get hurt and if they did then Preller has a legitimate case to have the trade nixed. If Cal Quantrill was obviously better than Clevinger on the day the trade was made SD wouldn’t have traded him.
By your logic the Yankees should have traded Aaron Judge at the 2020 trade deadline and the Astros should have traded Justin Verlander. Because now prospects are more valuable than championships.
I was the biggest believer in Josh Naylor’s bat when he was here but the dude has no business playing in the outfield.
that’s not how this works.
Mike Clevinger does not put you in the World Series. His injury is irrelevant because Cleveland turned Quantrill into him.
He wasn’t hurt in 2020. Cal Quantrill filled in just fine and produced in 2020. 2021 Quantrill was a sub 3 ERA starter. That’s really just it.
Josh Naylor was actually their best hitter in the postseason too if you’re really trying to dig in. I’ve exhausted everything I have to say on this.
Cleveland should’ve acquired an outfield. I was on here years ago talking about how god awful that decision was. But trading Clevinger did not prevent that from occurring & improved the roster from day 1.
No, trading Clevinger did not improve the Cleveland roster from day one. If that were true it would mean it made the Padres’ roster worse from day one. Why would the Padres want to make their roster worse if they are trading 3 prospects, 2 post-prospects and one major leaguer with the same amount of club control remaining as Clevinger? How does that make sense?
I will ask it again. If everything you said is true why didn’t the Yankees trade Aaron Judge at the deadline? How about the Astros and Justin Verlander? You apparently think prospects are more important than championships so why didn’t they do that?
He was very good in 2020, as well, so that’s 4 seasons of being a very good number 2 starter. Could easily return to his previous form with a fully healthy offseason.
How many pitchers in MLB history have had a sub-4 ERA as a starter after a 2nd TJ surgery?
No one ever said Cleveland didn’t make a good deal.
Why are you even bringing that up, or what does that even have anything to do with the White Sox signing him to a one year deal??
Clevinger has had more injury-plagued seasons than good ones at this point. Not a bad guy to take a flyer on though.
I’m actually surprised he went for a contract that the White Sox could afford. The hope is, with this being his 2nd TJ, that he just needs more time to get back to full strength. Doesn’t leave much for other improvements unless the budget goes up. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the direction they are going.
I stand corrected. He signed for a contract the White Sox really couldn’t afford.
Decent upside. Gonna be valuable at the back end of rotation at the very least.
Yeah…that’s certainly not the, “very least”. He could be a barely above replacement level pitcher (like he was in 2022), or hurt.
29 teams just dropped the ball!
Slide Piece, if you are adding up KBO and NPB teams then perhaps.
He couldn’t crack Seattle or Houston’s starting rotations. Not a chance.
I saw him pitch a few times this season and he always got rocked. He’s another Keuchel, who must have set the record for being dfa’d the most times in a single season. No wonder the Sox cancelled their fanfest. They couldn’t explain acquisitions like this and a number of other screw-ups.
GET SOME %&#@ing offense!!!
Tony the Russian was offensive enough.
Was Tony the Russian the guy that killed Apollo Creed?
No. His drunker brother.
Ivan Drago! Yeah, excellent movie reference. And, he used Ring Worm cream before it had a name….and its utility was through injection only.
Dumpster divin’ Ricky!
I seem to recall something about a potential HoF young SS for a stick a fork in him reliever….. did that count as something?
Padres just got 5x better!
Right city wrong team.
Another one for the prediction contest lfg
Attaboy Fletch!
Good job.
I had him going to the Angels. Ugh.
Don’t talk like that Ham!!!
Him to LAA before they signed Anderson and switched to him going to ATL.
If you have two right so far you’re likely leading everyone by at least two.
They must have money to burn.
This White Sox FO is legendary for moves like this.
I realize you hate the white Sox but they’ve been better than average at working with SP’s.
He may completely flop but they managed to make Jonny Cueto a competent starting pitcher again.
Plenty of other things to knock them for…
BStrowman;
I don’t “hate” the White Sox.
I do believe that the organization is terribly misrun, acquires and coddles players that don’t respect the game of baseball or their opponents, and are always looking for shortcuts to win rather then play the game correctly.
That’s totally fair.
SP is the one area where they haven’t been bad. I was basically just making that point. May not have came across that way.
The Sox lucked out with Cueto, he had a good season, However, it will be more likely that next season Cueto will not be good. If the Sox are in ‘Win now’ mode, you do not fill your rotation with a bunch of 1 year prove it guys. Though, judging by overall performance over the past few years I have little confidence in a guy like Katz as well, this team has consistently under performed against top talented teams. It appears they never adjust to what a team is doing to them too. Katz is too busy looking at his clipboard to see his vaunted pitchers getting shelled out there by competent hitters.
BStrowman;
$12 million dollars ???!???!???!???
Sox are going to rework him?
Did you know that last year the Padres pitching coach that worked with him also worked with him in Cleveland?
Niebla wasn’t terribly impressive last season though, to be fair.
You’re signing an old name here that you think could be reworked though. 12MM is not cheap. The orioles will probably find a guy for a fraction of that and he’ll be way better
BStrowman;
Niebla did quite well with a number of their pitchers as the year went along. Blake Snell and Nick Martinez in particular surprised me.
Now let’s play guess the price… I’ll go 6m – 1 yr. Prove it deal.
So very close.
Cueto is better. Clevinger looked terrible last year.
So did cueto after his injury in sf.
Another player made of glass to add to the Sox’s MASH unit. WHAT ARE WE DOING HAHN?!
Why you so mad? Can’t find any Cubs article to troll on?
My guy, you know how hard it is to troll a team that NEVER does anything?
Bro slept through 2016.
And that was it.
Hahn is aiming for the middle as usual… I mean he’ll tell everyone they are in ‘win now’ mode, all the while building the team as if they are still rebuilding it.
2/$24 with 2nd year a player option-
Guessing game lol
I think that’s a good guess
Cleveland traded him because they were concerned on the affects of his delivery long term and injuries if his time in San Diego in is any indication, they were correct.
Pretty good fit for both sides, ChiSox needed a starter but didn’t have much money to spend so they went with an interesting bounceback candidate and Clevinger needed someone desperate enough to give him a guaranteed rotation spot to give him a chance to bounce back.
Could’ve traded for Flexen or Marco Gonzalez. Both would have been better than Clevinger.
Flexen probably has a higher floor, but Clevinger has a higher ceiling. I would probably take Clevinger over Marco though.
Either way, I believe CWS don’t have a super deep farm to trade from atm so that may have also worked in Clevinger’s favor.
Marco would give up 900 home runs in that ballpark. So I would gladly do the deal but I don’t think he’s an upgrade over Clev for the White Sox.
Declining strikeouts, declining ground balls, increasing fly balls and increasing exit velocity against…going to one of the worst defensive outfields in a homer prone ballpark.
What could go wrong…
I must correct you. They had the absolute worst defensive OF in bb last season.
Significant drop in his K rate. Still recovering? A sticky-stuff guy? If 2022 was his recovery year and he gets back to 95% of his peak form, it will be a good signing.
johnny Cueto 2.0
Cueto signed a minor league contract with an invite. This signing was a little pricier
Eastbound and Down…good luck on the Southside, Flama Blanca!!!
Interesting signing. Looked pretty good early last year then fell apart.
If it was fatigue, the Sox scored.
It wasn’t fatigue. Go back and read the article. The two tj slowed him down and then he got a boo-boo on his knee. He had plenty of time to rest.
This is some kind of a one year deal with an option, clearly. Basically a bargain basement one year with a near market value 2nd year or multi year commitment attached if the first year is a nice bounce back.
Specifically I am convinced it’s a complex Los base high incentives, etc type of deal:
1 year/$4M w/ a $1M buyout base salaries with incentives that can take it up to 1 year/$8M w/ a $2M buyout on a pair of combined option years that would start at $10M each and could raise to $17.5M each or something.
So, guarantee of 1 year/$5M, as much as 1 year/$10M, or 3 years/$24M or 3 years/$43M.
TrillionaireTeamOperator;
Have you thought about waiting 10-15 minutes until the facts are in?
LOL
Those numbers seem reasonable, but the fact that this happened early in the offseason, along with several teams probably willing to sign him for those numbers, makes me believe you might be low.
It just seems to be a trend over the last season or two for high ceiling reclamation projects- a very cheap for the team but still relatively lucrative for the player single season guarantee with a pair of combined club options that start at a still low but higher than the first year rate and can go up based on how healthy the player stays-largely attached to pitchers.
I’m getting dizzy just reading your post.
Do people around here dislike me and want me to stop commenting?
I’m just a baseball nerd speculating on contracts in the comments section. Lots of people make long winded comments around here.
If Clevinger can stay healthy this will be a smart move, but I feel like he is constantly getting injured, he has the stuff to be a pretty good pitcher, let’s see if he can stay healthy.
Had. Current version of Mike Clevinger looks like he belongs in Japan.
And the other 29 teams fans rejoice
I’d give this a C+ grade. He can slot in at 5th and even long reliever if we get another SP or bring Cueto back.
I think the pigtails look was where it all went bad for him. Good luck Sox.
A two-year deal with an AAV of $9.5 M, that could go as high as $13M in ’23 with bonuses. Player option for the third year is $15M, or $9M player buyout.
This is what I expect the deal to look like.
Got him for less AAV and shorter commitment. Big win!
The shorter the better.
This didn’t age well.
He will be great for when the Sox are up or down by 6 or so runs and don’t want to waste a good pitcher on those innings.
I would have went with another season of Johnny Cueto
but at 1yr and 8M, its a nice sign for the Southsiders, need Abreu back and lets go!
Means nothing if he doesn’t make it through spring training, they should put that clause in. Is it guaranteed ! A trade is still needed.
Giolito maybe !!
All baseball contracts are guaranteed.
Yes! 5th spot solidified and with real upside.
Club needs a southpaw starter. Is it possible that Clevinger has been acquired to replace Gio or Lynn who could/ should be traded this offseason as neither will be a Sox beyond 2023? That would open a spot in the SR for a lefty.
Now bring Cuento back, too and we are good to go regarding SP -with a backup plan.
Cuento meh, not sure I’m familiar with his work. Cueto would be great tho.
Would like the Mets to sign Cueto!!!
You must hate the Mets
Glad the Orioles didn’t get him. Can’t stand his little windup before he pitches. I feel like he does that just to be like “it’s just what I have to do to get in rhythm” because him and Bauer think they are the best pitchers on the planet and know everything related to baseball
This is the White Sox “window”. They should be in on Verlander or deGrom. Instead they ‘re allocating a large part of their FA budget “taking a flyer” on a guy that is one pitch away from his 3rd Tommy John surgery. Rick Hahn’s philosophy is one part flux capacitor, two parts hopes and prayers.
This is the type of pitcher they can fit in their budget…Verlander and deGrom are not.
If you think Jerry “cheapscate” Reinsdorf is going to pry open his wallet and actually pay to get a top or even second tier player, you haven’t been following the wsox.
Clevinger will start more games than deGrom in 2023. Obviously JV is the cream of the free agent SP crop this season. However for a back of rotation arm that leaves money for a couple bats this is a decent signing.
22 to 21 starts with deGrom sporting a 1.94 ERA and Clevinger a 4.94
SupremeZeus;
The White Sox window closed 2 years ago.
The fact that they (and their fans) won’t admit it and take the necessary actions assure that they’ll wind up being bottom dwellers for years starting within the next 3 years.
@Samuel They did a grreat job getting the rebuild started with some great trades… Giolito, Lopez, Dunning (later swapped for Lynn) for Eaton, Eloy and Cease for Quintana, although Moncada/Kopech for Sale hasn’t really worked out. But overall they did a good job getting value for what they could trade. And since then they’ve just made the most pitiful moves. Grandal, who was never great, and then very little after that. No other big or even medium name free agent signings.
You are right, the rebuild peaked two years ago. This team is worse than they were in 2020 when they lost to an unspectacular A’s team, and they are not even headed in the right direction. Because they owner won’t allow them to sign anybody good enough to actually make this team more than slightly better.
“Because the owner won’t allow them to sign anybody good enough to actually make this team more than slightly better.”
Augusto Barojas;
Mr. Reinsdorf is the cliché: “Loyal To A Fault” with his employees.
In 2022 the White Sox had the 7th highest payroll in MLB. First off, the Sox are not a “major market team” – the Cubs are. The Sox don’t generate anywhere near the revenue the north siders do. They are a mid-market team, and nowhere near the top of that sector. What I’m saying is that the spending the Sox FO has done the past few seasons has been above their means; and they haven’t gotten back a quality team. This is primarily due to the fact that the players brought in don’t play decent fundamental baseball. They can bully their way around the also ran’s, but come up short against the good teams as they can only outhomer their mistakes on the field every so often.
Putting this into perspective….
The Sox were beat by the Guardians soundly in the September stretch run. They just gave Clevinger $8m for 2023 in hopes he’ll rehab himself and be a #5 starter. Cleveland will have two players making more than $8m in 2023 – Jose Rameriz and Shane Bieber. That’s it.
It’s not that Cleveland is “cheap” – it’s that their FO understands the way salaries work in MLB and work to sign, develop, and maintain good young hungry players. Last year they had the youngest team in MLB and was one game away from going to the AL Championship series. The Sox FO has their team payroll totally out of whack in relationship to their roster.
This is one Sox fan who admits the window closed two years ago when they fired the very capable Ricky Renteria.
I didn’t get that move at all. I don’t know that much about Renteria, but the team made a pretty big move forward going from .383 to .447 to .583 in a couple of years.
FWIW, I think the WS have a lot of talent. TA, Moncada, Robert, Eloy, and Vaughn are real players. The rotation and BP are good. They could use some defense and a little more depth, but I think they could win 90.
They do have talent put the players don’t put it to good use. Moncada is an excellent 3b but he can’t hit with RISP. Tim’s defense hasn’t been as sharp the last two seasons. Robert is a very good hitter but he’s afraid of the wall. He’d rather turn around and wait for the ball off the wall than run all the way to the wall and make the cat h. They finally put Eloy in the cleanup spot instead of Abreu and he produced. And Vaughn is only going to get better hitting-wise. The bullpen has problems. Graveman and Diekeman are fighting to become average and Lambert is unreliable. The only ones you can count on are Hendriks and Bummer, who seemed like his old self after returning from another injury last season. 90 wins?I don’t see it.
No way all 5 starters make it to June 1st off the DL.. You need another one that doesn’t mind time in the pen. Besides Sox can’t field the ball in the infield. You have to fix that first.
Need second base and a left fielder. Eloy is the new DH. Suspect Tyler Naquin will be the right fielder sharing time with a rookie. A desperately needed left handed batter. He will sit when a lefty starts. It will be a challenge to find a second baseman that can hit. Defense should be not great but passable.
The guy has had 2 TJ’s already, and with his violent delivery? Is Hahn trying to win the Injured List or a division title?
Would have preferred Cueto but all this tells me is that Cueto probably wants a 2-3 year contract which I wouldn’t have done. 1 year, yes.
1 year at $8 million doesn’t bother me too much.
Now go get a 2B, corner OF and catcher. Please.
I thought that Clev’s market was higher than Cueto’s, and am a little surprised that Clevinger didnt command more, Kudos to Clevinger for getting a deal done quickly, he is chomping to get back.
If Clevinger pitches anything like his old self, Hahn looks like a genius. If if it’s another mediocre season they can always trade him. As for Cueto, I’d like to see him come back but I can’t help but wonder if him being critical of the team in the media hurt someone’s feelings.
Low risk high reward. If he doesn’t do the job, just let him walk next winter or DFA him near the deadline to open a roster spot
This is one of the most over-used phrases on this site.
He’s going to have to rework his windup with the pitch clock. Those 10-12 baby steps before each pitch will cost him.
A lot of morons in the comments here. There is nothing wrong with this signing for him to be the #5 starter. The idiots calling out Hahn for dumpster diving don’t realize he did the same thing with Cueto last year and that worked out fine. They aren’t a 200M+ payroll team so it was this guy or Davis Martin. Martin still has minor league options and Charlotte has nothing to add. Good signing, now go get a left handed hitter/LF
J-Hey is available at min-cost, so your team can get that LH Bat for Left…
Cueto AND Andrus! I would take that kind of dumpster diving any day.
Right. Cueto worked out just fine. So why didn’t Hahn keep him? And don’t give me any bs about his age. The guy can pitch.
Avenger, maybe Cueto is looking to parlay last seasons success into a 3 year deal. Who knows? Like you said, his age shouldn’t be an issue
How many times have the Sox done this over the last 30 years? Sign a potential “bargain deal” type who just may be good vs spending to get someone who is actually likely to be good.
This would be a “low risk high reward” type if the Sox had the core they needed, but when you are spending all of your payroll on players like this it is just high risk. .
pmc, Clevinger is not going to be the reason the Sox don’t reach their potential. He’s literally just a 5th starter. And they aren’t spending all their payroll on guys like this. Joe K might be like this? They spent their payroll paying guys way in advance and have been burned. Stuck with Moncada, etc
I like this deal. 1 year 8 mil hoping that Clev figures it out.
Sunshine on the South Side of the Windy City.
Dark clouds gathering…
Checking his 2022 splits, I notice that his strikeout rate declined every month and his opponents’ batting average increased every month. His hard-hit ball percentage was twice as high in September/October as it was in May. Not what I’d call encouraging signs.
Good luck to him.
Again, perfectly fine for 5th spot. Now trade Hendriks to land a decent 2B or lefty OF bat. The rebuild needs a reconstructed roster.
Worst trade of the Padres’ current window. Even worse than Nola.
Yeah, both of those trades were really awful. Preller may be the biggest wildcard of all GMs when it comes to trading. His trades range from brilliant to horrific.
The White Sox won’t be any better with Clevinger than they were with Cueto. They are clearing just trying to tread water with these signings. The Sox have more than enough pitching. You really only need three quality starters, an average bullpen, average defense, and an ABOVE average offense to make the playoffs. The Sox refuse to sign high quality position players to improve run production and defense, so expect more mediocre performance. Below .500 by the trade deadline, and another selloff/tear down of the roster. Boycott this bum #ss team until hell freezes over.
Maybe the Sox front office can kind of build pitching staff but not an offense.
Jerry Angelo, the ex-GM of the Bears quite a few years ago, could build a defense but not an offense. Come to think of it, NO GM of the Bears could build an offense! Hopefully Poles is the guy.
The Sox have more than enough pitching. You really only need three quality starters,
==================================
This is not one size fits all, but last I looked, you need 5 quality starters. You have 4 pretty good pitchers, but then what? And two of those 4 pretty good pitchers are risky with the under/over on Lynn & Kopech being maybe 50.
So by my count, you are missing about 44 starts. Who are they going to come from, if not Clevinger?
I like this signing a lot for the WS.
Dude, what are you even talking about? You don’t need 5 quality starter to win 90+ games. Most teams run scrubs out every fifth start because you’re not worried about losing 60-70 games.
They won 81 games because they can’t hit and play horrible defense. I don’t care who you have on the mound; you can’t win like that.
They finished 5th in the league in scoring in 2021. They finished 9th last year because they missed 283 games from Robert, Eloy, TA & Moncada.
I agree on the bad defense, but missing 147 games from your CF and SS didn’t exactly help.
But I’d bet real money that the WS score at above-average in 2023.
That’s because they started scoring more runs late in the season. If you actually watch them play, they’re not a good hitting team. They simply don’t slug enough. They’re rank near the bottom in HRs, and strike out way too much. Against decent pitching, their lineup is useless.
They hit better once they were eliminated from any race. The pressure was off. Happens every year. That’s not cpeting. They didn’t do the little things you need to do to be a winning team, simple things like going from first to third, not station to station. I’m sure there is some useless analytic for that, but you only have to watch teams in the POs to see the difference between a contender and a team that will never do anything to get to the post season.
$8MM to an injury prone 5th starter is a steal? lolol
Unfortunately in today’s baseball world that is becoming so with idiot large market teams driving up salaries.
Clevinger has a pitching motion that screams injury. His few good years are behind him.
Damn, wish the braves would have signed him for that price. He’s a great bounce back candidate who has been great every year except last.
I went back and studied the 9 player trade between the Indians/Padres where SD got Clevinger. Wow, did the Padres get shafted on that deal! Good for Cleveland.
I got at least one right for the contest aside from the freebies that were given to us.
What is wrong with Rick Hahn? The Sox need left-handed pitching. As a matter of fact, they need left-handers in everything- the starting lineup, the bench, the rotation and especially the bullpen.
AND A SECOND BASEMAN!!!!
Well, the contract is on the high end of my expectations, but I have found I tend to underestimate the value of free agent pitchers- particularly pitchers who were maybe mediocre to atrocious before signing their deals…
Like that Andrew Heaney 1 year/$8.5M deal with the Dodgers last year when he’d been okay and then atrocious in 2021- a deal that he kind of lived up to but not really…. his ERA was actually pretty good, the number of starts he made was okay, yet his total innings pitched was atrociously low, indicating he wasn’t durable…
Anyway I view Clevinger similarly.
But hey, who knows- maybe Clevinger is the pitching version of Adrian Beltre, with an $8M comeback campaign translating into an $18M+ AAV on a long term pact from 2023 on.
Win/Win. Show, low money contract. All in his hands, literally.
Who cares about the money? You guys act like this the stock market. It’s baseball. Bargain hunting when you’re supposed to be in “win” mode gets you no nowhere. The Sox didn’t need Clevinger, they need a slugger in RF, and a solid big league infielder who can move Anderson over 2B where he belongs.
Who cares about money? The owners. The ones that set the budget for the team. This idea some fans have of, “who cares about the money”, is just so ignorant. Your team spending stupid money is why they’re in the position they’re in, that’s why people care about the money…they know that teams don’t have infinity money to work with.
Mike Clevinger is a steal at $8 million dollars. A lot of you guys are asleep right now (as were a few MLB managers it seems).
Not the same since the tack ban. Avoid.
Not surprising given how violent and unwieldy his delivery style is. Every time I watched him pitch it bothered me how he’d basically fall off the mound and have to catch himself- every single pitch. I am surprised he didn’t need TJ. surgery earlier than he got it and I am not surprised he isn’t quite the same pitcher since returning from TJ surgery and rehabilitation- he can’t sustainably pitch the way he pitched before and so that changes the kind of pitcher he is and the violent delivery he had was what made him effective- without that he’s quite mediocre at best.
He could have a perfectly cromulent career as a 4th or 5th starter or swing man or even an opener, or a set up man or closer, etc. but he will never be the top of the rotation expensive work horse he appeared he’d be before the TJ surgery.
I think he could convert himself into a $15-20M a year relief pitcher, but I doubt he’ll ever be a $25-35M starter and may wind up a $10M-ish a year bonus starter on clubs looking to shore things up but not actually rely on him.
This is not a low risk signing – Sox are needing him to be much better than his cost to seriously compete. Reinsdorf would rather sign 5-6 probable bust types at a bargain price than sign one or two guys who would most likely actually help. Has worked once in the last 40 years; maybe this year is number two?
Nothing wrong with this signing at all. 1 year deal for cheap.. he can do good things
Cheap this, cheap that. HOW DOES HE MAKE THEM BETTER?
I expect Mike Clevinger to improve after more time to heal from TJ.
Thank you AJ Pollock
I like this signing. Obviously, not the all-in Rodon signing some Sox fans had pipe dreams about, but a lot of #5 SP’s get about this much, yet few have Clevinger’s upside. Worse comes to worst, they waste $8M and have to rely on Martin and Lambert. Best case, Katz fixes his form (still plenty of time to start work on that in the offseason) like he did with Rodon, taking the stress points out of his delivery to allow for more durability and Clevinger gets back to being one of the league’s better pitchers. I have to imagine Katz was consulted on this move before it was made and believes he can fix him. Hopefully, this leaves enough money to address at least one of the holes at 2B and OF.
To me, the downside is a #4 SP, and the upside is a #2.. That’s basically what he was up until September. And I don’t think he missed a start after 6/17. And as several people have mentioned, some players recover more the 2nd year back from TJS.
I’d have been fine with my RS grabbing him for $8M.
Few pitchers really get back after TJS #2. If the downside is as a #4, then your rotation is awful 2022 Clevinger was not a 4 on a team that’s looking to legitimately compete.
Not many starters that have had two Tommy John surgeries that have ever broken a 4 ERA. Two total.
Downside is he is what he showed with Padres in the 2nd half. A 5 ERA guy.
Upside is that he is able to repeat what he did for the Padres. A 4.33 ERA in 22 starts. Maybe a little better. A #5 starter.
Y’all might remember a few months ago before the Padres extended Joe Musgrove I floated a trade proposal of him and Wil Myers to the Mets for Matt Allan and Alex Ramirez. That would have been the exact same thing for the Padres that the Clevinger trade was for the Guardians. Would have been a win from a value-for-value perspective but also would have been a win-later move when the Padres’ position at the time suggested they should be doing the opposite.
MLB starting pitching has changed dramatically over the years. Now once you get to your 3rd-5th starters your looking for 5 to top 6 innings and you have built a bullpen that can handle the last 3-4 innings. The CWS have done that with Lopez, Graveman and Hendriks not to mention if Bummer, Kelly and Diekman rebound. I have to believe there were others willing to do the $8M guaranteed and he chose the CWS because of some connection to the coaching staff etc.
Or the extra $4m on top of that 8.
I love all of the optimism in the comments but its misplaced. See this as what it is.. Another ‘Hope’, ‘but’, or ‘what if’ for the team supposedly built to ‘win it all’….
A one year prove deal with a guy hurt an awful lot lately, should not be made for a team who ‘is in a competitive window’ to win. Heck whats next a 6 year guaranteed deal with Rodon as well?
A team built to win it all does so, you go for the best players on the market (with a recent proven track record, devoid of injuries), damn the expense.. If they then fail, that’s on the player as well, but at least the GM tried.
Aiming for the middle while telling everyone that this team is built to win now is insulting to the fans (at least the ones that know better).
Hey, the Sox could do moves like this and win it all, stranger things have occurred in baseball, but the likelihood on this is low low low. and its just another ‘what if’ on the piles of such qualifiers when they should not exist if a team is built to ‘win it all’.
Last time I checked the Yankees are built to win it all every year but it’s been since 2009…”win to built it all” takes some luck and good health to achieve.
Cueto>Washed Clevinger
No money to spend and a horrible farm system. This was the best they could hope for although I’d try and re-sign Cueto before investing in a washed has been.
Thanks for your advice
Hey its Dogbones other handle. Nice going troll
pot…kettle.
“Over $8M” to $12M is a weirdly massive jump in reporting.
Might as well reported “over $1M” and then confirmed “$1 trillion”.
I so see if it was initially reported as $8M and was actually $12M or if it’s an $8M base w/ a $4M buyout on an option?
Yeah I’m confused about that too. I think Jon Morosi just randomly tweeted that the guarantee was “more than $8M”, which is technically true but also kind of misleading, because for a day everyone just assumed that he was making like slightly over $8M.
I almost wonder if whoever gave him that info did it intentionally to spin the narrative around the signing in favor of CWS. Clev for $8M sounds way better than $12M and there’s a lot of people who have probably made up their mind about whether they like the deal or not based on the earlier lower number.
Turns out trillionaire was spot on. Your attention to detail is why you have mega moolah.
The cutesy contract language is meant to keep the AAV low for CBT purposes. Clevinger gets 8m in 2023, and if the 12m mutual option in 2024 isn’t agreed (it rarely is) he gets a 4m buyout. 12m minimum in short.
Hah ! Abreu going to Astros for 3 years. Quality guy going to a quality team.
Bulletin: White Sox sign non Cuban player!
I’ve always like Clevenger when he was in Cleveland, if he gets his health back he can be a nasty pitcher. This is a good move by the Sox, they got him for 50 cents on the dollar.
Jah 8 mill w a 12 mill option is a square deal
Does he still get the buyout if he opts out of the Mutual option?
Yes
He’ll be traded before the deadline when Sox are five games below .500. I am so sick of this crap!
Nope
The Hippie has such an “annoying” delivery that hopefully the pitch clock will straighten it out.
At what’s effectively 1/12m, the Mets could have used Clevinger in something like the Trevor Williams role. Or they could just re-sign Williams, I suppose, then two more starters capable of pitching in the postseason .
They’re going to need a ton of innings, even if they sign Rodon and Bassitt,. Scherzer’s not a projectable 150 inning guy at this point.