Bryan Reynolds has been the subject of trade rumors for quite some time, given that he’s been a strong performer on a rebuilding Pirates club. Plenty of teams around the league have reportedly expressed an interest in his services, including the Yankees, Blue Jays, Marlins, Red Sox, Braves, Rockies and Mariners. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic adds the Rangers to the list, reporting that acquiring Reynolds is one avenue they’re considering in their pursuit of outfield upgrades.
The interest of the Rangers, and all the other clubs, is perfectly understandable given how Reynolds has performed thus far in his career. He debuted in 2019, hitting 16 home runs and batting .314/.377/.503 for a wRC+ of 130. He struggled badly in the shortened 2020 season but was back in form over the past two campaigns. Over 2021 and 2022, he hit 51 homers and stole 12 bases while walking in 10.4% of his plate appearances and striking out in just 20.6% of them. He produced a slash line of .282/.368/.492 over those campaigns for a wRC+ of 133, indicating he was 33% better than the league average hitter. That mark put him in the top 25 among all qualified hitters in that stretch, as was his 9.0 wins above replacement from FanGraphs.
Despite the high amount of interest around the league, the Bucs have yet to put a deal together with many sources highlighting their asking price as being very high. Jon Heyman of The New York Post reports on the Reynolds matter today and reiterates that framing, with one source characterizing Pittsburgh’s asks as “unrealistic.” Despite the apparently sky high asking prices, Heyman reports that the Yankees are one of the teams that is “consistently” interested in Reynolds.
Of course, the Pirates are under no obligation to find a trade for Reynolds, even though he has reportedly requested one. He’s not slated to reach free agency until after the 2025 campaign and the club could plausibly return to contention in that window. If no one blows them away with a monumental offer, they can simply hang onto Reynolds as their rebuild progresses.
There’s also the possibility of an extension, though there doesn’t seem to be a lot of optimism in that department at the moment. Recent reporting had indicated that the two sides had been about $50MM apart in their negotiations, with Heyman providing some more details on those talks today. He says the club offered $75MM over six years while Reynolds and his representatives were asking for something a bit lower than the eight-year, $168MM extension Matt Olson got from Atlanta.
The Olson comparison is an interesting one, though not a perfect analogue. When Olson signed his extension in March of last year, he was two years away from free agency, one year closer than Reynolds is now. But from an on-field comparison, there’s some logic to it. Both players had a swoon in the 2020 season but had three strong campaigns around it. Olson’s four years from 2018 to 2021 resulted in a batting line of .254/.348/.501 and a wRC+ of 130. Reynolds, from 2019 to the present, had less power but a better batting average, leading to a slash line of .281/.361/.481 and a wRC+ of 126. Olson produced 12.8 fWAR against a 12.5 mark for Reynolds. Olson was about to turn 28 when his deal was signed, same as Reynolds now.
Given the similar level of production, it’s not surprising that Reynolds’ camp would set that Olson figure as a target. The one year difference in their timelines will limit Reynolds somewhat, but Heyman does report that their ask is indeed lower than that. How much lower isn’t known but it seems to be well beyond Pittsburgh’s current comfort zone. Their six-year offer would seem to take Reynolds through his age-33 season, while Reynolds seems to be trying to get another couple years and go through his age-35 season. That doesn’t mean that talks are necessarily doomed, as large gaps can sometimes be quickly overcome. Not too long ago, the Red Sox and Rafael Devers were reportedly about $100MM apart in their negotiations before the club decided to step up and meet his asking price.
For now, it seems Reynolds is destined to have his name pop up in trade rumors until a deal comes together, whether that’s a trade or an extension. The interest from the Rangers is quite sensible, since the top items on their to-do list this winter have been the rotation and the outfield. They addressed the rotation in a huge way by re-signing Martín Pérez while signing Jacob deGrom, Nathan Eovaldi, Andrew Heaney and trading for Jake Odorizzi. The outfield, however, has yet to be addressed.
As things stand now, Adolis Garcia seems to have a lock on right field while Leody Taveras can provide a glove-first option in center. Left field, however, is far less certain with Josh Smith, Bubba Thompson, Brad Miller, Ezequiel Duran and Mark Mathias some of the options. Miller, Smith and Duran have each spent more time on the infield in their careers and are coming off subpar seasons at the plate. Mathias just came over from the Brewers in the Matt Bush trade and hit well down the stretch, but he’s also more of an infielder who can play the outfield in a pinch than an everyday option on the grass.
Thompson is arguably the most straightforward solution currently on the roster. He has excellent speed, having stolen 49 bases in the minors last year and another 18 in the majors. However, he strikes out a lot, including in 30.9% of his 181 major league plate appearances so far. That led to a .265/.302/.312 slash line and a 77 wRC+ despite a .389 batting average on balls in play.
It’s possible that one member of that group could take the job and run with it but it behooves the Rangers to look for upgrades if they plan on competing in 2023. The most appealing free agent outfielders have already signed, leaving AJ Pollock and David Peralta as some of the best names still available. Rosenthal adds that those are two of the names being considered by the Rangers alongside Reynolds.
Reynolds is certainly a more attractive option than those guys, especially for a Rangers club that’s starting to get near the luxury tax. The club’s competitive balance tax figure is currently $220MM, per the calculations of Roster Resource. That puts them within striking distance of the lowest tax threshold, which is $233MM this year. Reynolds is going to be making $6.75MM this year as part of the two-year deal he signed with the Bucs last year, with two further arbitration trips to come.
Adding that kind of salary to their books would allow the Rangers to make a huge outfield upgrade while staying under the tax for now. Of course, that combination of low salary and high talent is what makes him so appealing as a trade candidate and why the Pirates are asking for the moon in return. The Rangers have shown plenty of willingness to hand out huge free agent deals over the past couple of years but whether they would have appetite for parting with premium prospects in order to upgrade the roster is another question.
Adding someone like Pollock or Peralta likely would also likely allow the Rangers to stay under the tax, as they aren’t expected to fetch huge salaries. However, their expected impact is certainly beneath that of Reynolds. Pollock, 35, hit .245/.292/.389 last year for a wRC+ of 92. Peralta, also 35, had a strong first half with the Diamondbacks but wilted after a trade to the Rays, hitting .255/.317/.335 for a wRC+ of 91.
southern lion
Make this deal happen, Chris Young!
Joe says...
They have the pitching prospects that Pitt wants for Reynolds.
TheMan 3
They aren’t looking for prospects Joe
bmcferren
Rocker, Leiter and Jung gets it done
Goku the All Knowing
definitely anything involving Leiter would be sweet
bn3411
Jung is untouchable in a situation like this. Upgrading the outfield while taking away from the big league infield makes zero sense.
southern lion
Rocker, Leiter, Josh Smith & Odorizzi for Reynolds.
StudWinfield
Leiter, Carter and Duran/Dunning. Rocker can’t be moved until after the draft.
tiredolddude
Don’t see how. They had the opportunity to draft both Leiter and Rocker and bypassed both
And Odo? Seriously?
YourDreamGM
Pirates go after high upside. No vets or back rotation.
SouthernBuc
I don’t think they bypassed Leiter and Rocker, I think they had other choices they wanted more. That certainly doesn’t mean they might not think highly of them.
bucsfan0004
No they passed on both pitchers to sign a player under slot. I think they got a more complete draft out of it but who knows.
hiflew
Rocker has been able to be traded since the season ended. They changed the one year rule after the Trea Turner trade a few years back. Now draftees cannot be PTBNL at the deadline, but they can be traded after the season ends.
SouthernBuc
I agree on Leiter (Dave under slot) but Rocker in fell to 10th past many teams and well past where Crash Davis was expected to go even if Pirates had not selected him.
But the real purpose of my original response was the post that seemed to imply Pirates wouldn’t want Rocker or Leiter because they bypassed them in the draft. I didn’t think any bypass at all meant they didn’t want them, they just made other choices. I am sure they would have love to have both in their system.
tiredolddude
I can understand your point. My post was poorly worded.
Goku the All Knowing
true, but also Henry Davis is the middle of the order bat they need.
Neither Rocker nor Leiter project as top of the line aces.
i think they got the best player and also great slot.
Now if they pass on Dollander this year we have a problem….
robluca21
Thats quite a lot. I mean boy idk . That’s a tough decision .
PiratesFan1981
Davis is middle of the order guy? Only with the Pirates maybe. Yes, it’s that bad
justinkm19
Leiter doesn’t project as an ace? Ok.
justinkm19
And Rocker and Porter who may be the best out of all of them. I’m partial to White and Porter
AllinTX
No Carter or Jung
joew
@PiratesFan
yes he is projected as a middle of the line up guy and would be on most teams. 3,4,5 is where he will likely land.
Goku the All Knowing
ya idk some of these yinzers are so hard to please.
we got the best bat in the draft 1st overall and they think we took a mid round guy because it was under slot.
same exact people who said steelers should tank for Kenny Pickett , said we coulda got him 2nd round when he slipped to 20.. same people.
rocky7
Ah, they’ve supposed stated that they want major league or high end pitching prospects to lead a package not position players which is why the Yankees aren’t considered to be a front runner for Reynolds…..exactly what high end pitching do the Rangers have to give?
YourDreamGM
They can state what they want. Time is ticking and they need to trade him. Rangers have plenty of pitching prospects to get a trade done.
Scott Kliesen
Why exactly do they “need” to trade him? 3 more years of team control. Sure he could regress or get hurt, but he also could become a 150+ WRC+ hitter this season too.
YourDreamGM
3 years team control but not 3 years to trade him. They should be a contender in 2025 if not 2024. Hard move for fans and team to trade best player. Sooner the better but within the next year is ideal.
Goku the All Knowing
they have like 3 years to trade Reynolds.
they don’t have to trade him at all.
Black_Pearl
Goku, he only gets more expensive and they already tried extending him. The longer they wait the worse the trade package becomes.
Goku the All Knowing
if they’re a contender in 2024 or 25 then why would they trade Reynolds who’s controlled through 2026?
Goku the All Knowing
imagine paying money for a good player.
Black_Pearl
He’s controlled for 23, 24 and 25. They won’t be able to afford him at that time.
YourDreamGM
Only way to sustain winning in a small market is keep bringing in talent. Best if Reynolds goes and goes now.
YourDreamGM
They could definitely and easily afford Reynolds arbitration. Any team can afford arbitration.
Black_Pearl
Let me reiterate: they can afford it but won’t pay it
Prospectnvstr
Rocky7: The Rangers have Leiter, Owen White, & Cole Winn as pretty prominent SP prospects.
sensiblepiratesfan
Leiter
Scott Kliesen
I interpreted your comment as they need to trade him this winter. I believe they should trade him this winter if they get a TOR SP who slots in to the 2025 and beyond window (like Leiter for example), but they certainly don’t need to trade him this winter.
stymeedone
Payroll will go up if contending. That may change his mind as well.
PiratesFan1981
@yourdreamgm They don’t need to trade Reynolds. Just because Reynolds and the rest of the league wants it, doesn’t mean the Pirates need to trade him. They need to stay firm with their king’s ransom for Reynolds. Selling him off just to get a trade done for peanuts and bag of balls, won’t work and will send the Pirates fan base into a huge frenzy.
Wisdom shared
Pittsburgh want a pitcher within the top fifty of MLB top hundred.
That would start with
SP: Jack Leiter ranked 45 in the top fifty.
SP: Owen White ranked 59 in the top hundred.
SP: Brock Porter ranked 89 in the top hundred
Those three would probably get Reynolds from Pittsburgh.
YourDreamGM
Those 3 would definitely get Reynolds. Texas isn’t giving up all 3. 2 top 100 guys and some quantity.
YourDreamGM
They are absolutely looking for prospects Joe.
CaptainJudge99
Yeah asking price: Jack Leiter and Kumar Rocker.
Big whiffa
No way leiter or Jung will be involved. Texas is still best match for pirates though. There system is super deep w young prospects to pick from.
Carter
White
Winn
And the big prize – A. Gutierrez
Bout as good as it’ll get for pirates- they best come to their senses
Bruin1012
I would argue the Marlins are a better match.
YourDreamGM
Marlins need to keep prospects and add more. Not give them away for Reynolds.
szielinski
The Marlins need offense. Trading prospects for Reyonlds is not gifting anything to the Pirates. The Marlins, Rangers, etc. Likely will get the best player in this trade, that being Reynolds. If the Pirates could, they would extend Reyonlds. Cherrington would not want to whiff on this trade.
Black_Pearl
I would take that and run Wiffa
iang2424
Carter besides Jung is the most untouchable in the organization unless it was in a Juan Soto trade. Texas has one of the deepest systems in baseball. Teodo anyone? Bratt? Gleider? Agree people will know Guiterrez soon. I just doubt Pirates trade him even though they should because he’s not resigning there unless they pay him what he wants and they won’t do it. They won’t be in contention either until his last year if then. Might as well trade for guys that will also be rookies around that time or upper level of the minors.
Goku the All Knowing
the pirates want to take a step forward in the standings this year.
that doesn’t happen by trading your best player.
they can hold him until next season if they don’t get a top prospect they seek.
gtownfan
Carter will not be in the package. Mark my words! Leiter, Winn and maybe two other pieces…lower level lottery tickets.
AllinTX
Agree, no Jung nor Carter.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Duran, Smith, Foscue, Winn, White, Harris, Roby, and Bratt for him? Pittsburgh can get a 3rd team involved like Oakland who wants Duran/Smith and will make a prospect for prospect trade with that Wad guy from NYY.
AllinTX
I would be happy with that or this:
White, Foscue, Winn/Otto, Duran, Huff, Zavala/Gutierrez, Morrobel, and Saggese and thow in Miller lol
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I would love that except please no Zavala. I think he is basically Carter and don’t get it. His stats are identical, Zavala is injured atm (lower value), and Harris could do. The Bucs can just take a low risk approach by taking on White as the top guy and a boat load of other guys, of whom 1 must work out.
AllinTX
The thing with Harris I like his bat and could potentially take care of 1B. But yeah I would rather trade Gutierrez than Zavala.
gtownfan
Too much
slidepiece
Perfect fit for the Rangers, but what do the Pirates get in return?
YourDreamGM
Multiple top prospects
Big whiffa
Checkout mlb pipelines top 30. They do great write ups over there. What I noticed bout rangers is they got a ton of really young prospects in their top 30. Makes em an intriguing partner where u can get 4 good prospects instead of a big name. That’s the route the pirates need to go !
I don’t see rangers trading jung or Leiter. Their ceilings are just to high and to close to mlb ready. Rocker maybe but they did just take him 3rd so doubt he’s traded either
deGromTexasRanger
Leiter is a god and will be a future HOF
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Degrom Texas Rangers = deranged Astros fan
AllinTX
White, Foscue, Winn/Otto, Duran, Huff, Zavala/Gutierrez, Morrobel, and Saggese.
ElGaupo77
For the Rangers farm system, I think the value is actually in the lower levels. I think you would definitely be buying high on Jack Leiter
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
*Low
Look at his ERA and walks last year.
Big whiffa
High is right. He’s prospect value hasn’t took a hit at all. He went straight to AA and pitched a full workload for a first year pro.
Gaup is also spot on about lower level talent
jimmyz
As a realistic Pirates fan I know the team should trade Reynolds either this offseason or at the trade deadline because the most likely scenario otherwise is to receive a weaker return in a trade the following year. But man would it be a hard pill to swallow if the return didn’t have at least one significant piece of the deal in the majors or close to ready for MLB. Bucs have some young talent in Cruz, Roansy, Hayes, Bednar, Keller, Bae and more coming in the upper minors like Henry Davis, Endy Rodriguez, Quinn Priester, Mike Burrows, Nick Gonzales and Travis Swaggerty. Gotta build around that group to become a playoff contending team first then build behind them to sustain it. Kind of makes the Rangers a perfect trade partner on Pittsburgh’s end because Texas has both near term help and further off potential stars to get a deal done.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Do you consider Foscue/Duran/White as top end? Those guys could play the outfield if needed or be traded for other prospects. Obviously, many bottom guys will go, but would you be fine with maybe just 1 of White/Rocker/Leiter/Porter and no Carter/Jung/Zavala? Idk what I would think as a Bucs fan, but I do care about top 100 lists. The 3 there are top 100 or were top 100 before reaching MLB (Duran midseason).
Macbeth
Leiter and White for Reynolds. I’d do that from a Pirates fan perspective. It’s asking a lot but that’s the going theme.
cspera77
Gonna cost more than that….Asking price is 2 top 100 prospects plus a third decent piece
Ma4170
They can ask for more but prob won’t get it. A package like white porter duran would be a substantial haul for Pitt for a good but not great OF. I don’t see TX parting w Leiter for a Reynolds level player, but who knows.
Black_Pearl
If he’s only “good but not great”’then why does every team want him?? Like most fans you want to hold on to your top prospects. I get that, but you wont land a player like Reynolds if it’s not a substantial trade package
Ma4170
I’m not a TX fan. Im being objective. Teams want him bc there’s no good talent left to sign as a FA. And clearly they’re not willing to pay the ridiculous price Pitt is asking. If a team gives two top 100s I think they’re nuts, but desperation is a big motivator.
Big Poison
Unless your definition of “objective” is – Flat out wrong, then you’re not being objective. Reynolds is far from average. Just because you’re not familiar with his body of work, doesn’t make him average, it makes your level of knowledge average.
Big Poison
That is unbelievably false.
Ma4170
Where did I say he was “average?” I said he was good, but not great. And that’s true. Believe me, I’m being objective, but for some reason, some of you are trying to treat Reynolds like he’s top tier talent, which he’s not. He’s a good player, above league average on most measures. He’s a top 10-15 OF last three years. Big deal, so is Jeff McNeil by those measures. Should he command two top 100 and another high-end prospect in a trade? No
Nimmo ranked even higher and would he bring that back in a trade? No…well, I guess he might if a team were desperate enough, but he shouldn’t
Mendoza Line 215
Ma- Top 10 outfielders are are very good proven ML players.
Letter has been bandied about.What has he proven even in the minor leagues?Second coming of Nolan Ryan?
The prospects quite often turn into suspects.
The Pirates should keep Reynolds until they get proven ML’s or ML’s to be.
I don’t get how some of you posters have favorite young players who have not proven themselves at any professional level let alone AAA.
Ma4170
Agreed, he’s a good proven player, and prospects are no guarantee. But if you can parlay him into three upside prospects, chances for success increase, and that’s a great return for a player pretty much guaranteed to walk. Idk what any of TX’s prospects will turn into, but going by what I know and have seen, I’d say Leiter’s upside is higher than Reynolds. Whether he ever reaches it is a different story, of course.
Black_Pearl
Teams have been wanting him for years. Rumors started while he was still a rookie.
Black_Pearl
McNeil has 46 career HR. Do better
Ma4170
If you’re using HR as the lone measure of a player, then that tells me all I need to know. McNeil also has a higher WRC+ and OPS+. So there, I did better.
Black_Pearl
HR just stands out the most. Also has more rbi, plays OF where McNeil plays mostly IF, and is 3 yrs younger. Guess I’m old school because I don’t know what all those letters mean. All of this while playing on a crappy team with nobody on base in front of him and nobody behind him for protection. McNeil is a fine player but he’s not like Reynolds at all.
AllinTX
Saying 2 top 100 prospects has so many variables.
If Foscue, Porter (2 top 100) plus Winn, Gutierrez it’s all it takes I’m all for it. If it’s Carter/Jung plus White/Leiter ABSOLUTELY NOT.
The top offer I would do is White/Rocker Foscue, Winn/Rocker, Gutierrez, Morrobel and Saggese.
(3 top 10, 4 top 11 plus #15 and #19)
Black_Pearl
All in the names you mentioned are too young. They want guys at or near the pro level. No teenagers.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
As a Rangers’ fan, I’d probably say yes, but would Rocker/Porter be okay instead of Leiter? White would be sold high, so I’d be happy. Ideally, it’s just White and some offense like Duran/Smith/Foscue who may play the outfield + Huff/Leody Tavares/Bubba and a few like Dustin Harris/Acuna Jr./Hauver. Even adding in Mitch Bratt or T Roby may be better imo. I would consider White top end, and the rest could be traded for top end talent. I prefer quality over quality, like NYY did in the Gallo trade.
Black_Pearl
Rocker and Porter are too far away. Bucs want 1st year MLBers or prospects that are close. White and Carter make more sense and will be MLB ready no later than next year. Possibly a lotto ticket thrown in as well.
deGromTexasRanger
Rocker could easily be pitching by end of this coming season!
Black_Pearl
He could but White has already tasted AA and could cameo in the bigs in Sept.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Trading Carter undermines the whole point of this deal. They need a long-term guy too.
Black_Pearl
They have other OF prospects for that like Harris and Zavala. It’s going to take top talent for Reynolds.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
To me, Carter = Zavala + a little age difference and some defense, so fine. I’d just say if Carter, no big 3 guy added. Only White and Carter plus others
Black_Pearl
I can see swapping out Zavala for Carter, but they probably want a few extra throw ins
deGromTexasRanger
They need some men not some little soft kids
Black_Pearl
Agreed. If Reynolds goes I’d like it to be Texas who gets him. Rangers were always my 2nd favorite team. Saw Nolan pitch once. Struck out 12 Tigers
SouthernBuc
Admitted Pirate fan but – I thought the purpose of this deal was to make sure that the Rangers best leverage their window. And isn’t that window now with an aging (who knows how they will truly age) and expensive starting rotation and 2 really expense players who should be in their prime now.
I am not saying what the Rangers should pay for Reynolds, but marking players as non-starters (Carter in your example) may undermine your taking advantage of this window whether he is used to obtain Reynolds or somebody else.
As I see it, there is gaping hole in the outfield and they need to fill it this year and to fill it properly it will cost more money or near top prospect trade capital.
SouthernBuc
Once again Pirate fan but in my recent research of Rangers prospects and the their write-ups, I just haven’t seen Carter = Zavalle plus age defense and some defense. I didn’t read a lot so I could easily be wrong, I just don’t see that as that easy of a swap to maintain the trade value.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Every team has untouchables. Carter is off limits, and the Pirates will have a hard time getting the ransom they want. Sure, the Jays went crazy with Varsho and threw away a top 10 prospect, but that was due to surplus. Texas has pitching and middle infielders. They have 6 on MLB.com’s top 100 and a bunch of former top 100s. They can try, but the point of a trade is to help both sides. Pittsburgh can wait and risk his value tanking if he repeats his 2020 season. They can rob Texas blind without even getting Carter. There are 6 top 100 guys, and they can get 4 of those and still be great. They can maybe replace a top 100 guy with few former top 100 guys. Reynolds isn’t Barry Bonds and thus won’t be valued as such.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Wow! That actually almost sounds like me! @Eegrom Texas Rangers
AllinTX
You’re not get two top 5 starter prospects for him. Just one top 5 starter Leiter/White and another top 10 starter Winn/Otto along with Foscue, Duran, Huff, Zavala/Gutierrez, and Saggese.
TheMan 3
Save if, southern lion. Cherington has been adamant about what he wants in return for Reynolds and that includes a top tier major league ready pitcher
slider32
In that case why don’t they trade him to the Marlins!
szielinski
It’s likely the Pirates want Perez for Reynolds, and the Marlins won’t do it.
troutfishing
A’s are lucky there are fewer division games next year because the AL West is going to have some tough competition.
YourDreamGM
Wouldn’t that have been good for their draft pick odds? Unlucky.
Moonlight Graham
Pittsburgh would definitely want a pitcher, so either Leiter or Rocker.
Middle infield prospects have no future in Texas, so Foscue could be had.
And Evan Carter could fill the outfield void (eventually) created by Reynolds’ departure.
That actually seems like an overpay, but it sounds like Pittsburgh might be asking for more than that.
TheMan 3
middle infield prospects have no future in Pittsburgh either
BC wants a major league ready pitcher and at least an outfielder with power
His demands are high but he has control over Reynolds’ contract for 3 more years
desertball
The Dodgers align with the Pirates perfectly
tiredolddude
You have to think that at this point, it’s outfielders and pitching or perhaps a bonafide 1st baseman
Like @YourDreamGM, I have to think that they are at least going to try to be competitive this year, given their signings. As such, you have to think that guys who are years away from ever touching an MLB field aren’t going to get it done
But it’s the Pirates. You never know
Moonlight Graham
Pittsburgh’s middle infield isn’t spoken for the way the Texas MI is. Seager and Semien are planted in concrete. Oneil Cruz is the shortstop for now, but that may or may not be his long-term home. But, for argument’s sake, let’s assume he’s staying.
Beyond Cruz, Temarr Johnson just graduated from high school, Peguero isn’t exactly a monster at the plate, and Gonzales hasn’t excelled above Single-A. Maybe Bae is a player? But. Foscue would be more formidable than any of them, at least until Johnson is ready. Or he could have a future at first, which is also taken in Texas.
tiredolddude
First off, I want to say that I watched both Leiter and Rocker pitch at Vandy in the CWS and thought both would be solid pitchers in the majors. Guess I’ll throw the question out there….what is the word on how they’ve progressed
Moonlight, Cruz didn’t set the world on fire defensively and despite a high strikeout rate and low average, has power that has produced a lot of talk here Along with Bednar and perhaps Hayes, he’s the poster child for the Bucs future. That he’s been allowed to balk at trying the outfield is worrisome and would lead you to believe he’s smart enough to understand his position right now.
You’re right about Peguero, of course, and Johnson has already been given and will get a lot of work at 2nd
They’re talking about Bae going to CF and hoping Gonzalez can find himself at the plate.
You’re likely right about Foscue, but they have a real logjam there right now and sure could use outfield depth. And you never have enough pitching
Black_Pearl
I don’t really see a difference between Gonzalez and Foscue.
Topshelf Nick
It has to start with Leiter.
Pirates have a lot of infield prospects (Peguero, Gonzalez, Johnson) and their current starters are quite young with interesting potential (Hayes and Cruz). Prospects are not a lock and their position can change but I don’t see them pursuing Foscue.
YourDreamGM
Any of the 4 best Rangers prospects could work. If they are willing to part with Carter it’s probably a done deal.
SouthernBuc
As a Pirate fan I like the thought of Carter but if they could get Carter and White and something else (maybe further away or higher risk) that seems about right. I do think with zero inside information it seems logical that the top piece or likely top 2 pieces are close to the majors so they have a successful professional track record and with continued development will reach the majors by 2024 at the latest.
YourDreamGM
That deal sounds right. Pirates should jump on it if offered. I’m not going to dig deep but Carter and any of the big 4 is the foundation to get Reynolds.
Ma4170
Carter white porter and Pitt should jump as fast as they can at that
Black_Pearl
Carter, White and Porter would absolutely get it done.
Ma4170
I’m guessing TX wouldn’t do that though from what I read
Big whiffa
It has to start w A Gutierrez.
HeedFrodo
Who are you giving up for this?? Pirates asking price is high and they want top 10 prospects.
YourDreamGM
I think 2 top 100 as headliners gets it done. I don’t think the asking price is the problem. I think it’s teams not wanting to pay for 4 and now 3 years. If the Padres wanted Reynolds and had the farm they would have had him by now.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
As a Rangers’ fan, I’d probably say yes, but would Rocker/Porter be okay instead of Leiter? White would be sold high, so I’d be happy. Ideally, it’s just White and some offense like Duran/Smith/Foscue who may play the outfield + Huff/Leody Tavares/Bubba and a few like Dustin Harris/Acuna Jr./Hauver. Even adding in Mitch Bratt or T Roby may be better imo. I would consider White top end, and the rest could be traded for top end talent. I prefer quality over quality, like NYY did in the Gallo trade.
JPopp9
Otto might be a good type to round out this kind of trade. A decent big league P who still has some upside. Something like Rocker/White/Huff/Acuna/Otto.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I wouldn’t want to give up more than 2 of Rocker/Leiter/White/Porter. Maybe, one of the big 3 can be replaced and just keep White?
JPopp9
I wouldnt love adding in more then just Rocker and White but it seems thats what PIT will require. I feel like if they were going to give Huff a legit shot he would have played a lot more then he has and Otto just seems to fit here for PIT. Acuna would be that upside prospect for them. I dont like it but I think I might pull the trigger if PIT went for it. I honestly wouldnt hate losing any of those guys.
deGromTexasRanger
Rocker is a future HOF get with it
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
*I mean more than 1
MPrck
If the Rangers do get him, you have to say they are for real, and puts a new slant on the division as well.
YourDreamGM
Astros are beast but Reynolds makes them serious wild card contender.
Led Hoyer
Rangers could be very good. I still think their best move in two years was hiring Bochy. It’s going to make a world of difference.
YourDreamGM
If their pitching stays healthy they will be interesting. Future looks good as long as they don’t trade away many elite prospects.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
But what about signing the second best pitcher of the expansion ERA? Kershaw has a 2.48 ERA and DeGrom has a 2.52. Koufax’s post-1961 ERA is lower than both, but career is much higher.
Buzz Killington
Bryan Reynolds interested in giving up Pirate life to be a Ranger.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Rangers hunt Pirates when they are on land.
Mendoza Line 215
The Pirates should continue to ask for what they want until at least the trading deadline this year.This will give them time to see how Andujar,Bae,Suwinski,and Mitchell perform.If Peguero plays well in AAA and Cruz does not field well at Shortstop that gives them another option for right field.If all these players perform as advertised the Pirates will have a glut of outfielders even without Reynolds,as Bae May be able to do well in centerfield.The Pirates can always use pitchers and should ask for the ace that they have been and others near MLready that do not yet need to take 40 man roster spots.
YourDreamGM
Trade him as soon as you get a fair offer.
Mendoza Line 215
And that fair offer would include multiple high end young pitchers including one that can start in the ML at the beginning of this year.
Prospects are just prospects.Reynolds is an all star.They do not need to trade him.And plenty of other teams are interested and would be willing to pay if they are having a good year at the trading deadline.
YourDreamGM
They aren’t getting a mlb ready pitcher and Pirates wouldn’t start season with him anyways. They would manipulate that service time.
Mendoza Line 215
Prospects aren’t getting it done for a proven all star position player.
Starting pitchers these days,unless elite,can hardly average six innings per start..
If BC is serious about competing for something in 2024 he needs to stay away from prospects and make sure that he gets pitchers who can win in the ML.Hopefully,ones who need little developing,and ones coming from pitcher rich organizations who have already taught them how to pitch.
Reynolds is the heart of the team whether he likes it or not and they have plenty of time to trade him.
BC has fanned on some of the other trades and he needs to get this one right.He won’t last as long as NH did if he blows it.
YourDreamGM
He didn’t fan on any. If he wants a front starter it’s going to be a prospect. Reynolds is a 1 time all star and isn’t a legit cf. Most are going to be disappointed with the return.
Black_Pearl
Per the norm
Mendoza Line 215
Marte,Bell,Holmes,Stallings,Rodriguez- he did well on Taillon and Musgrove.
He needs to get this one right.
YourDreamGM
Marte was the only good trade chip and fair return. Prospects don’t look as promising now but this happens more times than not. Bell is a dh. Lucky Washington wanted to teach him to play 1b. Most teams have a dh or don’t want a full time dh. His free agent contract shows what teams think of him. Bell return was possibly light but probably due to demand. Holmes would have been dfa if NY wasn’t aggressive. I didn’t see a single Pirate fan that didn’t like that trade. They seen enough of him. I like the 2 pitchers that came from that trade so not all is lost. Stallings was sold high. Odds were he would regress. I don’t know if anyone seen it happening that drastic. Solid return. Rodriguez was great return. Teams knew he was a sticky guy. Wasn’t anything special with the sticky. You either value those guys to high or think other teams are stupid.
A legit complaint is why couldn’t they develop Holmes or teach Bell how to throw?
Mendoza Line 215
The answer to your last question is it was the Pirates way.
It was embarrassing to watch Bell throw a baseball with the rubber band arm that no other major league player has ever had.
Holmes could not hit the broad side of a barn in Pittsburgh.He was also embarrassing to watch.
But Bell could hit,albeit in streaks.And Holmes has the pitches to succeed.
My point is that these were all major league players,some very good,some not so good,that ended up just being given away.
For prospects.
For who,for what,in the immortal words of Ricky Waters.
Shelton’s time should have run out by now.But Cherington needs to be on the clock too.
And you want him to trade his best player for what?
Prospects.
AllinTX
Why can’t they get a MLB ready pitcher? They can get Otto/Dunning/Odorizzi (just an example)
And of course 3 more top 10 prospects plus another 2 in the top 20.
YourDreamGM
That’s how it’s done. Not many contenders or want to be contenders have a surplus of young mlb proven players laying around that they don’t need. And the less proven the more you can get. Prospects all the way.
YourDreamGM
@AllinTX If Texas values them that low. Pirates shouldn’t target backend starters if they don’t have to.
AllinTX
Your not getting 3 aces for Reynolds. Nor 2 of the top 5 pitching prospects.
Otto and Dunning have upside. At the very least they’re #4s. Add someone like Leiter or White and another 3 top 10 and that should get something going. No way the Rangers trade 3 top 10 starters for him.
YourDreamGM
Rangers aren’t parting with all of that.
AllinTX
With all of what? I didn’t mean the all 3 (Dunning, Otto and Odorizzi)
It would be something like this:
White, Foscue, Winn/Otto, Duran, Huff, Zavala/Gutierrez, Morrobel, and Saggese.
YourDreamGM
Not all that. I wish. Would be a heck of a trade to digest. Be great to see pirates in playoffs. That’s a ton of talent to part with.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Like Texas did with Martin Perez and Matt Moore? That backfired. Look at how they overplayed their hand with Yu Darvish. That backfired too. They got nothing for Kyle Gibson and Kennedy. Sometimes, you have to take what you can get and be realistic.
C Yards Jeff
Offensively I can see the Olson comparison. But what about defensively. CF position is more valuable then 1b. Factor that in and his deal would/should be bigger than an Olson’s?
Dalton1017
it might make a difference if he was a good defender
Black_Pearl
He’s not absolutely terrible in CF but is more than adequate in LF
YourDreamGM
Reynolds isn’t a cf.
joew
yeah, he is a Left fielder who can play center just not everyday if possible.
rocky7
The Pirates have all the leverage in this situation as Reynolds is asking to be traded while he is still under control by the team…….while the Pirates are taking a chance having a very unhappy ballplayer on their hands, they are probably better suited waiting until the trade deadline to max out their return…….and by the way all you Ranger fans…position players aren’t supposedly of interest to BC….he wants multiple pitching coming back to the Pirates in any trade and last we looked at it, Heaney, Odorizzi, and Eovaldi any way you look at it don’t exactly make the Rangers a pitching powerhouse the season…..
YourDreamGM
I don’t see any leverage.
SouthernBuc
I agree Pirates don’t have ALL the leverage. But when a player has 3 years of service left and has enough demand that there can be some level of a bidding war, then that is leverage for the selling team. If Rangers want him instead of Seattle (example), then whoever loses the bidding in theory lessons their chances to win now (in the myopic view of Reynolds is the only/best option).
A team who says we can wait until he is a free agent or wait a year certainly has that right. But if you are team who is built to win now and has a hole, waiting does not increase your odds of winning now which as I see it will be the purpose of any team trading for Reynolds.
YourDreamGM
I just don’t see any leverage. Pirates can wait to they get a offer they like. Other teams can go up to their max offer and if that isn’t good enough then oh well. If another team out bids you then you hurt their prospects.
Beldar J. Conehead
Just about everybody other than Detroit would be interested in Reynolds.
CarverAndrews
Realistically, you are correct. And MLBTR is doing a great job of adding more detail and analysis every day, given the fact that so much of the Rumors Biz is already done for the season. But they could just copy and paste that headline and repeat the process for 28 other teams.
At the end of the summary, they could add “but the Pirates want the sun and the moon and the stars for this good, but not great, player and no one is going to pay their price”.
Mendoza Line 215
You may be surprised at what desperate teams would do at the trading deadline.
CarverAndrews
ML215 – probably not surprised after following the game for well over 50 years. But it is all about the supply and demand, for sure.
With three years of control left, he is at a peak value, the next deadline the value is slightly less, depending upon the pressure from multiple contenders and auction process at the moment. If things broke right for Pittsburgh, they might have two or three large market teams competing for that exact need and someone might cave in for a truly premium cost.
Some players go for a lot more during the Hots Stove when the market is competitive and theoretically more teams are in the mix. The trade deadline has its own set of circumstances, and when one is talking about relief pitchers especially they can garner a real premium. Somewhat less so for many others, unless one is in a true bull market of the moment.
Samuel
CarverAndrews & Mendoza Line 215;
Both of you gentlemen have been following MLB for a long time, as have I.
If Reynolds were a quality CF the Pirates could certainly demand a Kings Ransom. Logically he’s similar to the young Andrew Benintendi after his first few years in MLB – allowing that Reynolds is a switch hitter and has a bit more power. But realistically he’s not bringing back 3-4 top prospects (he’s not Juan Soto).
Yes, it’s always about desperation and entering this offseason the Rangers and Giants headed the list; while the Padres and Mets lapped them. Don’t count any of those 4 teams out for Reynolds in LF, and add the Yankees to the mix. The return? The Pirates have position playing prospects. It’s all about getting pitching back. It’s not clear to me the people in their organization that are heading up that area, and what they’re looking for in prospects.
But I do agree that it’s peak value trade time up to the 2023 deadline. The Pirates can roll the dice and start the year with him. He’s good – the price goes up….maybe drastically up. He’s average to bad – the price goes down.
As for Reynolds – it’s in his best interest to be traded to a contender. He’s not a star that will carry a team. He’s a nice quality complementary player that can be a big addition to get a contending team over the top.
Mendoza Line 215
Samuel-While I appreciate your post,I am not sure that you can understand this situation as many long time Pirate fans can.
Yes,Reynolds is a mediocre centerfielder who is actually a leftfielder.The Pirates recently traded away their desirable centerfielder for prospects.
What you cannot understand is that the Pirates have been touting prospects for thirty years.Many of us are tired of it.
They have been the worst team in baseball for three and a half years.
Reynolds is easily their best player.
They have several young ( four)outfielders who showed promise in the upper minor leagues and played for the Pirates last year.They need to figure out this year who can play and who cannot.They need to find that out soon if they are serious about trading Reynolds.
This bravado about having to trade him now is absurd.Absolutely no reason to do so unless they get a very good haul of young controllable pitchers.They traded Cole with two years left,but he was a pitcher who had had arm problems.
If they trade him at the deadline this year,or even next year,who cares that they do not get a Kyle Nicolas as part of the return!
This article is continually being “written” because it causes a feeding frenzy,And all of these different teams probably do have an interest.And that is why they may end up getting what they want and need.
Bryan Reynolds is the best player on a very bad team.He is the only one that the fans can embrace,even with his trade request.Right now that is all that Pirate fans have.
Samuel
Mendoza Line 215;
I understand what you’re saying. I grew up a Cleveland Indians fan. They weren’t even in a pennant race from 1960 to 1992. (By then I’d long since left.)
They finally started to win when a new ownership and administration came in. They had a plan – strong hitters from 1-8 in the order; strong D at C, SS and CF; a strong bullpen with decent starters.
They went about finding young prospects that fit those requirements, acquired them and coached them up.
This is what throws me about the Pirates. I don’t know what the plan is. It should be coming clear by now. The truth is this……
The situation is not under control. The manager doesn’t appear in any sense to have a handle on what he’s doing. A DH that might play the OF is insistent on pretending to play SS when he lacks the physical dexterity and the baseball instincts / IQ to do so, and doesn’t take control of the position. Yet the organization says he can learn SS if he gets reps…..because he rejected moving off the position while the PR department is selling him to the fans so no one will stand up to him. The pitching I don’t understand at all – is Cherington in control of it? Someone else? What’s their organizational pitching philosophy? What sort of people are they looking for?
What I see today is a bad ML team, but in a rebuild that’s understandable. The Guardians and Orioles are sorting through people. But they both have lots of OF’s, young catchers they believe will take the job for years, middle infielders, and corner infielders. Most of the prospects they acquired in the rebuild are either on the ML roster or in the high minors. They have been trained in baseball fundamentals, and understand that the organization expects them to play that way. Their coaches in the minors and majors are in sync and control their departments. The manager is in control of the ML team, and the ML players know what’s expected of them – they grew up in the system.
Sorry to be brutal – I believe that it’s not the money for Reynolds. He’ll get his money. He’s going to be in MLB for the next 10 years….even if he’s injured and broken teams will take a chance on him. I think he sees a clusterfug around him and realizes that at best it’s going to take years to even begin to square things away. He’s not really a leader-type, and even if he was – who’s he leading? He’s got parts of 4 years in MLB; is in his prime at 27 years-old and wants to play with a legitimate major league team. It’s not his fault that he doesn’t know who’ll be playing what position other than 3B during the 2023 Pirates season.
Yes, now is the time to trade him. If they can get some quality arms, that’s great. I have no idea how the organization will bring them along, but pitching prospects are always in demand. Reynolds is in a bad situation, and it’s not going to get any better in the next few years for him. He’s a legitimate above average ML player on a team with only one other guy that is at that point. With all due respect to Pirates fans, one player will not make that situation work. There is the very real possibility that he gets a bad attitude and messes up enough to where his value vaporizes.
Mendoza Line 215
Samuel-You are doing what others do on here and understate Reynolds’ value because he is not a center fielder.He is a very good switch hitter in the PRIME of his career.He has a OBP of 842 and averages 24 home runs a year with I think a 281 batting average..He has three full years of control left.His high value will not vaporize anytime soon.He is too smart and has high character so he will not start tanking.
The Pirates situation is not as dire as you think it is.The manager and hitting coach should have been fired last year.He is going to limit how good the team can become at this point.
Cherington is good in some respects but mediocre in others.He is the opposite of Huntington in that he is good at drafting players.The coaching systems of both leave something to be desired though.
The Pirates fielders are not fundamentally sound.
They seem to have made progress with Keller and there is hope for others.BC made three good trades in Taillon,Musgrove,and Quintana but failed in the others.He has done a decent job in signing FA’s.
He works within the confines of Nutting which is not easy.
This organization and ownership has a problem in getting good coaches and managers at this point.
The Pirates need pitchers the most.You can’t have too many.The problem with pitching prospects is that half do not amount to much and half of the rest get serious arm problems.They are unnatural motions in throwing and gripping the baseball.
Cherington is doing the right thing for now and he should wait until the trading deadline to seriously consider any deal as no one wants to pony up what Reynolds is worth at this point.
And I do remember Johnny Romano and Max Alvis along with the Pittsburgh boy Sudden Sam McDowell.
tiredolddude
Pretty obvious now that Cherington has mimicked the Tampa and Cleveland “smaller market approach “ by stocking the minors with solid prospects while making it clear that the kids will come up, mature, hopefully develop and compete, and then be sent off when their financial desires become untenable
Then re-load with the next kid or kids
I get it and can live with it, even if the word “competing” can equate to being a .500 team
I guess what I don’t get is the Pirates view of 2023
If the signings they’ve made indicate confidence that they are ready to start tracking towards competing, you have to wonder if trading Reynolds makes any sense. That is, wouldn’t trading your one true all-star, your home run, rbi and batting average guy, completely destroy the master plan, or at least delay the launch of being “the competitive Pirates?”
Just where do they make up the run production without this guy? Just how do you compete?
Please note, I’m not pro or con where trading Reynolds is concerned. If he brings a haul of prospects as discussed here, I understand.
I’m just wondering where the starting point is. Another 2-3 years of 90-100 losses, just in time to trade a Hayes or Cruz for prospects again?
Mendoza Line 215
Tired-Please erase this post.
It makes too much sense.
The Pirates had two years of mediocre baseball,three of very fine,3 1/2 years of mediocre,and 3 1/2 years of awful baseball.
Their goal of good baseball and getting hot in the playoffs died with the lack of a good farm system.
They won 51 equivalent in 2020,61,in 2021,and 62 in 2022 when I was hoping for another ten game swing upward.
Their goal is to get back to the 2013-2015 level,not 500.
They need to find out what their other outfielders can do before the trade deadline,and if they are good then it is time to trade Reynolds.They want blue chip pitchers and they should settle for no less than three.He is a very good full time player,and we all know how dependable pitchers and prospects are.
knolln
all for unloading prospects, rangers have way too many mid-tier to keep them all around, but this is a package I’d be really scared to see. add in they want near mlb front line starter i’m afraid would be owen white, and yuck. i’d do leiter, dunning/ragans/otto (decent innings) acuna, duran, zavala type deal i think, but id have a hard time stomaching another top end guy
Rubble44
Sure thing….Leiter and Carter for Reynolds.
knolln
and that’s what i’m scared of. i see carter being the kyle tucker we should have taken originally and I don’t want to trade him, like at all. I like reynolds numbers and control, i don’t think i’ve watched him personally enough to be over the moon for him. of course he’s a known commodity where carter isn’t, but i’d rather give them a good pitching prospect, a young 4-5 type mlb starter, and middle infielders ala duran foscue acuna smith
YourDreamGM
Likely takes Carter and elite pitching prospect or 2 elite pitching prospects. Maybe a ss. If it’s a 2b or 3b they will have to pay more because Pittsburgh doesn’t need those.
knolln
I’m high on leiter still but good with him headlining. We’re going to need good cheap carter’s though to supplement the hefty vet salaries sooner rather than later. Not saying Pitt is wrong in demanding him, just why I’m not really keen to jump into this sweepstakes. If he were a legit good CF I would maybe think otherwise, but as a LFer I’d steer clear if Carter is included in anyway.
YourDreamGM
Texas has a lot of talent. They can go quantity and still get a deal down. Carter shouldn’t be necessary but if he is they won’t need to include Leiter.
SouthernBuc
This is where my brain has been regarding Leiter/Carter. It just feels like it should (Pirate fan) take one of them and other likely strong prospect(s) to make it happen.
I am not as sold on the quantity approach, while Rangers have depth, I am putting Reynolds at the value level that I hope would require more than just quantity.
YourDreamGM
I value him as a 800 ops lf. Rocker Porter could be a nice package. If the rumor of asking for Julio plus is true well BC is ridiculous and needs to go. If you can get more than 2 years of value for Reynolds you need to consider it.
AllinTX
They don’t need to have a need. If they’re valuable they can trade with someone else.
sensiblepiratesfan
Oneil Cruz says hi, They don’t need a SS either.
YourDreamGM
Can never have enough ss. Not that Cruz has proven he should have ss locked down for the next 5 10 years.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Trade Reynolds to the Pirates.
Dalton1017
I think a realistic deal would be the Pirates get Dunning Otto Leiter Foscue and Owen White.
knolln
i’d do that with ragans instead of white. otherwise that’s a huge gut punch to both high end pitching and pitching depth. maybe still too much pitching with ragans. but that may be what it takes. we could give the pirates better players if they spread that around some, and while I know they specifically asked for high end pitching, i think they still have enough holes to be keen on good position players even though hayes and cruz look good
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Replace Leiter for Duran or Acuna + Harris.
AllinTX
Not getting 3 quality starters for him much less 4.
If it’s White, Winn and Odorizzi then yes, plus Foscue, Zavala/Gutierrez and Saggese.
Black_Pearl
Why would they want Odorizzi and his $12.5m salary? You won’t be able to get around all of your top 5 prospects and instead throw in 4-6 low level players that haven’t or likely not contribute:
Dunning and Otto – been in the bigs multiple yrs and not impressive
Ragans – near 5 era in bigs and not overly impressive in minors
Winn – 6.5 era in AAA, get out of here! every time his name is typed his era goes up
AllinTX
Atlanta would is paying most of Odorizzi’s salary. What you mean by “getting around all of the top 5 prospects”???
White and Foscue are #3 and #5
Otto might not have Ace potential like White but he could be a serviceable #3 #4
What 4-6 low level players are in my offer?
You’re clueless. And no you’re not getting Jung nor Carter. MAYBE Leiter but that’s a big maybe.
AllinTX
And I never mentioned Dunning either. It’s either Leiter/White/Dunning no way they give two of those starters in a package for Reynolds.
AllinTX
FYI, They would only be paying Odorizzi $2.5M at most.
Roper
I’m sure that the Rangers did inquire, which is all this article suggested. A fair offer in my opinion would be Cole Winn, Cole Ragans, Justin Foscue, and Glenn Otto. Three first round picks of which one has big league pitching experience. And another controllable pitcher with big league experience. If the Bucs balk at that, I pass if I’m Chris Young.
Black_Pearl
You pass then. That’s not going to get it done.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Maybe add Duran and Acuna and replace one of those pitchers with Dunning and that may be a slight underpay. Currently, this deal seems very light.
LosPobres1904
Would be a great move for them
holecamels35
I would hate to see him moved, but it’s likely and this is the best fit for getting the Pirates what they need in return. Leiter or Jung would have to come back, and I think Jung is a hard no. I just hope Leiter is ok. That’s who I wanted the Pirates to draft but he looks rough so far. Like all these pitchers, I’m sure a surgery is imminent, but the Pirates have to hit on a frontline starter eventually.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I wish guys like you were negotiating. If it’s just 1 Leoter and then guys like Focsue, Duran, Acuna, Harris, Otto, etc. And Leiter is the only one of Jung, Carter, Zavala, and Porter/Rocker/White, I would be ecstatic. Pittsburgh can have a lot but just not those at week positions.
arthur3 2
Like Mecum auctioning off a much revered premium vehicle, Ben Cherrington has a recent all-star player up for auction. He can proceed at his own personal pace and wait for all the offers to come in. He has set a high reserve price to make the trade, and has the bidders for Reynolds’ services competitively raising their offers. No GM wants to make the Cashman/Yankees error of seeing a competitor swoop in to acquire this premium player for a handful of unproven prospects and watch a team like the Astros win a World Series with said player excelling, as did Gerritt Cole.
Roper
Bucs can forget Jung, Leiter, Rocker, White, and Carter. Just can’t see any of those guys moving. I will have to look up that website that assigns numbers values in potential trades. Can’t imagine Winn, Ragans, Foscue, and Otto not getting it done if the Bucs are looking for young pitching with upside. Three first round picks. Otto and Ragans have promising big league experience. Rotation ready and controllable for years. Rangers just splurged on more experienced starters. Winn and Foscue are in Triple A. Foscue is moving to left field, and is projected to post Reynolds-like numbers. Just hard for me to get a grasp on this MLB trade market, and I suppose that’s why no deals are getting done!
SouthernBuc
First, I don’t think that gets it done and now a minor pet peeve of mine. Sorry to inflict my feelings here. Once the draft is over being a first round pick means nothing other than at some time they were chosen at that point. Most first rounders don’t make it and that draft position no longer has an impact on value. Now a caveat, if they are from the previous years draft, much of their value is still tied to being drafted in the first round.
Roper
Great point….but I believe that you have to separate that from first round picks that are college kids versus first round picks that are high school kids. Teams have to push their college picks through the minors because those kids are 3-4 years older in most cases. But the first round 17-18 year old high school picks really need 3-5 years to develop in the minors. The high school first round draft picks that I suggested in this trade proposal are right on schedule!
Bruin1012
Roper sounds like a lot of other teams fans when it comes to Reynolds “ You can’t have any of our top prospects but you should be happy with these other guys it’s a fair trade”. Cherington has already said what he wants and he wants to be blown away. Cherington holds all the cards and if a team wants Reynolds it’s going to cost he will just hold him otherwise. My guess nothing gets done and that’s fine but this drivel about multiple prospects being off limits is funny.
Roper
Agreed Bruin. Nothing gets done. That’s why I mentioned early on that the Rangers inquired, and that’s all that this article suggested. Interesting that the article received this many comments! Rangers do have a deep farm system that’s ranked 6th (I believe). That’s why they can still make a veey solid offer without dipping into their top prospects. As I recall, Foscue and Winn are top ten in their system. And Otto and Ragans pitched in MLB with some success last year. Controllable and ready. So, I have to stick with what I believe is a very solid offer. Completely respect your opinion though. That’s what makes the banter back and forth fun!
Bruin1012
Honestly Roper I have been pretty impressed with a lot of the Ranger fans on this thread the offers that they were coming up with were much more realistic then most teams fans. I just think Pittsburgh is in the drivers seat here they simply aren’t trading him for anything a big return. If they go prospect which they should the Rangers have pieces they would like Leiter, Carter and another lesser say 15 to 20 org prospect gets it done from Pittsburgh’s end. I also understand why Texas is reluctant to move that kind of package. If Texas is really serious though no prospect except Jung should be off limits.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I somewhat agree, but you seem a bit unrealistic too. Foscue, Duran, and Winn are all available and are or were top 100 prospects. The Pirates can approach this as a draft and go for better talent over position. They don’t hold all the cards. He can perform like he did in 2020 and tank his value. Then, the Pirates are screwed. I used to think teams had all the leverage in the world when marketing stars, but seeing Texas go through rebuilding made me more realistic. Teams can just wait it out or sign free agents. Thr Cards just signed Contreras, and the As got fleeced for Murphy. Selling isn’t always idea. Some of those guys are untouchable. Others can be moved, but not more than 1 or 2 of them. Negotiations are 2 sided.
Bruin1012
DeGrom, honestly if you put the shoe on the other foot and Texas had and was trading Reynolds would you honestly take Winn, Foscue, and Duran for Reynolds? Be honest with yourself no you wouldn’t it doesn’t even move the needle. If a team wants Reynolds it’s going to cost and it’s going to hurt. Reynolds started a little slow last year but he was excellent in the second half and that’s with very little protection in the lineup for him. This is why he isn’t getting traded until at least the trade deadline imo unless someone overwhelms Cherington with an offer he can’t refuse.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I’m pretty sure most offers I have mentioned included several other top 30 guys. I honestly preferred what the Yanks gave up for Gallo vs what the Pads would have given and vs the Spencer Howard package since it’s lower risk. Obviously, those guys don’t get it done, but several of Dunning, Harris, Bratt, Roby, Acuna, Chase Lee, etc. have to be worth something. I’d take that top it lf it comes with 5 or so more guys.
szielinski
Wayne Gretzky (GOAT) was traded Anyone can be traded. It depends on the players and the context.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
If that were the price, I’d jump all over that deal. It may be a slight underpayment, but what I would love is they keep the big 3 and White plus Carter. Maybe add Duran/Smith?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Bauer is officially a free man! He can start pounding that glove on the corner at 90+ MPH now. Someone could use a real man in the dugout.
fox471 Dave
What a nothing story.
MLB-1971
I remember the Pirates World Series teams in the late 1970s (now 40+ years ago). They have practically turned into a AAA farm team for the rest of the MLB……very sad for Pirate fans…
They have only finished at .500 or better 4 times in the last 30 years.
They have won 5 WS from 1909 to 1979 though.
cwalla24
If they can get Carter (OF), White (SP), and Porter (SP) then GMBC has to make that deal. An Outfielder with strong defense and great strike zone awareness and two pitchers with three plus pitches and strong command/throw strikes… that’s the type of return we need to make it worth the trade, otherwise hold on to him
Dalton1017
he is actually a terrible CF.
Black_Pearl
He’ll play LF for TX
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Carter won a MiLB gold glove. He is great at defense.
dcahen
Dalton – explain with facts, stats, something; why you think he is a terrible CF.
showfeet
Bauer and Reynolds to the Braves! Sell the farm and Grissom for Reynolds. Then, getting a top 15 pitcher for league minimum to round out the rotation? AA has made a career out of screwing people, so he should have no issue with Bauer’s history.
CarverAndrews
Hate to break it to you, but the Braves already sold the farm to the Athletics for Olson and Murphy. Barn door is open, and nothing but org filler wandering the fields. I keed, Braves fans, but yeah they did sell off the top of the system rather thoroughly.
Bauer is affordable however, if they are ready for a show of discipline…
showfeet
They could potentially center a package around Grissom. Agree the farm isn’t strong but enough ancillary pieces along with Grissom to get a deal done.
thats it fort pitt
Leiter, Rocker, and a couple LHP (organizational top 30) prospects should get it done.
Edward Reilly
Leiter Kelly an mortobell that seems like a fair trade 1 top pitching prospect 1 pitcheing prospect with potential an a young lottery ticket outfielder
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
It seems a bit small number-wise. Replace Leiter with White, Dunning, Winn, Ragans, and Otto/Howard. Perhaps Hauver can be the outfielder. I think the Bucs have to consider that.
Black_Pearl
That’s laughable
DUDDUS
Nah CY. Let Thompson have LF til the All star break. If he falters then Let’s think about making the trade, depending on the standings ofc. We have great depth in minor league pitching and not too mention Evan Carter not too far away. We can afford to wait.
Silver Boot Series Enjoyer
Give Mathias a chance please. The dude absolutely rakes when he’s on. No need to bleed your farm system for production you can source from within.
baseballteam
“Rangers interested in malcontent who wants a fat contract so he can coast.”
Giant Willy
The Pirates would probably want Bruce Bochy in return
honalieh
Pirates: Reynolds is probably among the top 25 or so offensive players in the game with 3 more years of club control. They are probably better off keeping him, even if they can’t extend him. The next 3 years should count for something.
Rangers: Have a question mark (Jung) at 3B, and need more in the outfield. They should be in win now mode with the signings they’ve made.
If the Pirates were to trade Reynolds (very questionable), and want pitching in return, the Rangers may match up well (the Mariners match up best if they are willing to give up Kirby + legit prospects).
Pirates: Reynolds.
Rangers: Leiter, Porter, Carter.
That seems relatively even based on values. The problem is that it puts all the risk on the Pirates. Porter has never pitched above high school level. Leiter had 1 good year in college, and a bad first year at the pro level. Carter seems a little safer bet, but he hasn’t made it to AA yet.
To help make this trade a little more palatable to the Pirates, I put Owen White (potential back-end starter) or Kumar Rocker on the table. But, not without getting something else back. Pirates will have to give up Rodolfo Castro (actually younger than Jung, and a switch hitter to boot). Don’t want to bank on Jung, with his 40% K rate being the answer at 3B. If Pirates object to Castro, look to Nick Gonzales, or Jared Triolo (Triolo probably better-even though not ranked as high). I’d probably even take Triolo over Castro due to his Gold Glove defense.
Fans of both teams will object. Pirates fans because of what they are giving up. Rangers fans because of what the players they are giving up may someday become.
Black_Pearl
This would get it done, without adding White. I see your reasoning adding White and then needing someone else from Pitt, but I think TX would want Bednar if adding White. That’s a lot of top prospects to deal.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
This is why you should replace Carter with Zavala and certainly some of the 3 of the big 4 with lower rated quantity guys like Winn, Howard (both former top 100 guys), Ragana, Dunning, Roby, Bratt, Teodo, etc. Maybe 1 of those pitchers goes and perhaps even 2, but 3 is impossible. Also, there is no way both go along with Carter. Two of those big 4 pitchers/Carter and no more seems reasonable. Most deals do have depth to reduce that risk you mentioned for the Bucs.
DUDDUS
No just no. Keep Reynolds, Carter will be ready mid season anyways.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Quite optimistic of a take, in my opinion – I do agree Carter and more is way too much to give up, though I doubt Carter is ready by the middle of the season. I mean, if only White goes and you keep Zavala, Carter, and the big 3 by just doing a quantity deal like the Gallo one, it really doesn’t hurt much. Besides, the Rangers currently have 6 very good hitters (infield, catcher, and center field) and a half DH with Heim/Garver plus 2 holes in the outfield. Even with Carter, Reynolds is a big improvement. They can also go lower with Kepler, McCarthy, Mullins, or Santander.
DUDDUS
yeah I was a bit in over my head. BUT it isn’t crazy to think, if the rangers go with the OF as is, that Carter will be called up at some point next season.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Sadly, that’s probably more of a negative thing about the current outfield than a positive thing about Carter.
Black_Pearl
If you swap Carter for Zavala you’ll have to include someone else in the top 5. They won’t do just White and then several lower end guys.
joew
First. 8/165 isn’t out of this world ask. make it 7/140 + 8th option with a decently sized buy out with a opt out vesting on team performance after year 4/5. slightly front loaded. seems like a good compramise for bryan. Pirates may not go for it. If i were them i’d wait a few months into the season. see if they get 2021 bryan or or 2020 brian. 2022 wasn’t that bad at all. he would also need to know that as soon as the pirates get a real CF hes moving to left.
As far as trade, the Rangers have the pieces but may not want to give up what the pirates may ask.
Lets be very clear here. The rangers have no prospects one should consider ‘Elite’ Given that the return of quantity of quality will be higher. Lets also be clear, Reynolds can play center but he is more of a Left fielder.
Pirates Targets probably should be Leiter, White, Winn, Harris as priority as they are quality near term.
Rocker Zavala, Gutierrez as decent longer term options. I value these lower than others due to the timeline the pirates have.
Vanasco, Kent, Church, Weems as they are nearer term pitching prospects that are most likely pen arms
To the Rangers Reynolds and a surplus decent middle infielder with a fair ceiling of being a better than average 25man guy but probably not an everyday starter. Bae for example. or a projected pen arm with a fair shot of being a back end starter Mlodzinski for example
If I was the Pirates I would ask for a package like Leiter, Winn, Harris. I think that would fit the pirates higher asking price. Two likely MLB starters that might be high rotation. and an OF the pirates need as the system is fairly thin there.
Personally I would take Leiter or White, Harris, Vanasco and Kent. A Likely MLB starter with a shot at being high rotation, the OF the pirates need and likely pen arms.
This is assuming the pirates add a second player to the deal and maybe some other piece like a lower end MiLB player, Cash or maybe the pirates 2nd round comp pick.
I believe these types of deals fit both teams needs?
Of course thats just like my opinion man.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
This isn’t too bad. I just suspect more hitters get added and Winn isn’t as valuable as White anymore due to recenr performance. They were both top 100 prospects, but not anymore. Rocker is basically as developed as Leiter, so he is in the same category. Maybe, he is a year behind. I would be thrilled to keep 3 of the big 4 arms and Carter + Zavala. I’d even throw in Roby/Vanesco/Roby and Hauver + Duran or Smith.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
He will likely make 20-25 million over the 3 years of arb, given his agreed-upon salary next year. This means a 6 year deal is really just 3 years and 50 million. That is reasonable. If Reynolds is looking at 50 million more (as reported) over just 6 years, he is delusional. No team would ever extend that early for such a high price. Now, 125 million over say 8 years or more or maybe 7 years with a team option and a buyout making up the difference is more realistic. I really don’t think total value matters at all. It’s really about AAV to me, and he wouldn’t get much more than 25 million on the open market. Consider the leverage the Bucs have over him, and he should maybe push for 1 more year (7) and go for perhaps 25 million more (7 years 100 million) and readjust his expectations. Teams are focusing more on defense, and really the only thing he can do it hit. His plate discipline last year was a fluke, as evidenced by 2022, and he doesn’t steal many bases or cover much ground to be a good fielder. He’s more of a LF/DH type who can really hit but really not much more. Any AAV over 20 million is an absurd overpay. Now, I wouldn’t mind giving out more “AAV” via team option buyouts, but I don’t know what the Pirates would think about that.
Black_Pearl
He’s a slightly above average LF, not a DH type. LF in Pittsburgh is a lot of real estate and he covers it w/o issue.
Mendoza Line 215
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