July 28: Catcher Austin Hedges has also drawn trade interest, Heyman tweets. While the veteran backstop provides nothing on the offensive side of the game — Hedges is a career .189/.246/.323 hitter who’s batting .181/.234/.231 this year — he’s long been regarded as a premier defender at a critical position. A club looking to add a defensive-minded backup could perhaps have interest in Hedges, who’s earning $5MM this season and still has about $1.77MM of that sum still to be paid out.
Moving Hedges makes sense for a Pirates club with two of the sport’s top catching prospects, Henry Davis and Endy Rodriguez, both ready for a legitimate audition in the Majors. Both are already on the big league roster, and Davis has seen some action in right field to get his bat in the lineup. A Hedges trade would clear out more playing time for each youngster. Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette spoke with Hedges yesterday about the possibility of a trade and his shift toward a mentor role for the younger Davis and Rodriguez. Both young backstops lauded Hedges for his eagerness to take them under his wing as they continue their development.
July 27: The Pirates have received some trade interest in starter Rich Hill and setup man Colin Holderman, tweets Jon Heyman of the New York Post. Hill, in particular, seems a good bet to move within the next few days.
Pittsburgh signed the 43-year-old southpaw to a one-year, $8MM free agent contract last offseason. Hill has continued to offer the kind of back-of-the-rotation production not far off that of his past few seasons. He owns a 4.82 ERA over 21 starts and 114 innings. His 19.1% strikeout rate is a bit below average, while he’s issuing walks at a roughly average 8.7% clip.
It’s not overwhelming production, but teams have valued Hill’s general stability at the back of a staff and veteran clubhouse presence. He’s been on six teams within the past five seasons, generally working at the end of a contending rotation.
For a while, the Bucs seemed as if they’d stick in the postseason picture. They’ve gone cold of late and fallen out of the mix, setting the stage for at least a moderate sell-off. Veteran first baseman Carlos Santana was shipped off to the Brewers this afternoon. Hill is in the same spot as an impending free agent who could have modest appeal to a contender. He’s due around $2.67MM from here forward.
The Pirates can set a loftier ask on Holderman. Acquired from the Mets for Daniel Vogelbach at last summer’s deadline, the right-hander has somewhat quietly developed into a quality reliever for the Bucs. He struggled down the stretch last summer but has solid numbers across the board this year.
Holderman, 27, owns a 3.71 ERA through 34 innings. His 23.3% strikeout rate is fairly typical, while he has above-average control and a quality 51.5% grounder percentage. He’s handling hitters from both sides of the plate, mixes three pitches and has picked up 15 holds in a leverage role for Pittsburgh.
That’s valuable production, and Holderman’s affordability only adds to the appeal. He surpassed one year of MLB service this season. He won’t be eligible for arbitration until after next year and is controllable through the 2028 campaign. Every contender could fit him on the books and into the middle innings, but the Bucs also have zero urgency to deal him for a suboptimal return.
Of course, the Bucs’ top potential trade candidates would be mid-rotation starter Mitch Keller and All-Star closer David Bednar. Heyman reported earlier this week the Pirates were willing to consider offers on those players. Both are under arbitration control for multiple seasons beyond this one (Keller through ’25, Bednar past ’26). The ask on each will be very high as a result, and deals seem significant long shots. Robert Murray of FanSided wrote yesterday that a Keller or Bednar trade was very unlikely, characterizing the openness to offers as standard due diligence for GM Ben Cherington and his staff.
Red Sox should get Hill back. He won’t be great, but he will eat some innings and save the bullpen, and best of all he probably won’t cost much. I hope we don’t go after any high-end rentals after seeing what that Angels gave up for Giolito
Redsoxx – Considering how many bad mop-up pitchers Bloom has run in and out of the Red Sox pitching staff this year, the last thing they need is to trade any type of prospect for yet another one.
I mean seriously, in the second half Hill has a 5.06 ERA and 1.688 WHIP. Might as well bring back Faria for nothing.
Thing is with Cora’s bullpen management and having to do two bullpen games every time through the rotation, they really don’t have the roster space for a mopup guy. Cora needs as many pitchers as he can get his hands on.
second half of the season…? three games? I don’t know the situation with the Red Sox if this would be an improvement but three games. judge buy a few more games Going back to the start of june it isn’t much better but about 50/50 for QS. For a back end 5/6 starter, you could do worse.
joew – I’m glad you asked, I’d be happy to explain.
Hill is 43 years old.
Most players that age wear down as the season progresses.
Hill has a history of needing time off in the second half to recover from the grind of the regular season.
He missed the entire month of July last year, and started only 4 games in August including pitching on 7 days rest and 9 days rest.
His most recent starts (ie: 2nd half) are the most critical in judging what direction his performance is going.
If the Rays had done the same with Nelson, when he was awful prior to being traded to Tampa, then they could have avoided his disastrous performance in a Ray uniform.
Sorry but when it comes to pitchers in their 40’s there is a LOT more weight placed on recent performance, and rightfully so.
@fever
Will not dispute what you say, i just do not want to look it up.
I still stand by… 3 starts in the second half is not enough to judge. If you take the previous month into account, he is still one you consider as a backend 5/6th guy on many teams that wouldn’t take much to get.
Would also like to site his August on performance in his 19 year career is much better than his mid season performance actually quite a bit better. Not counting his age of course.
Sox are my favorite. Reports are they wanted him as a free agent. He is healthy and recently added a splitter. No reason not to want him now if they want a 5th starter.
Wait a second, weren’t Hedges, Hill, and Holderman also the names of the Watergate burglars?
What did the Angels really give up for Giloito (and Lopez)? A bat first catcher who lacks catching skill and a pitcher who lost most of his control because he had switch arm angles?
For those Pirates fans who were hoping Andujar would take Santana’s place on the roster, apparently management has decided to promote Palacios instead
And if Hedges is traded, I see them bringing Delay back so Davis can continue honing his skills in right field
It’s becoming clear that they are looking to get the #1 draft pick in 2024 and only losing the majority of the remaining games can do just that
Not that Hedges would be a huge offensive loss, it’s their other decisions that suggest their intent
Andujar earned another promotion
You know worst record doesn’t guarantee you the number one pick anymore right? Literally, what the pirates are doing, is what every team (except normally the Rockies who are delusional) does when they are out of contention. Trade expiring contracts for prospects. It’s not new. Even the Cardinals are looking into it since they’re out of contention this year. A salary dump is when they basically get nothing back in return. Even though the prospect they got back for Santana is years away from MLB readiness, he still has high upside, meaning it was still a better return than they’d get from a salary dump.
If your Mitch Keller up for Arb 2 this year, do you want to be throwing to a rookie or a gold gloveer that creates all kinds of extra strikes?
I get what they’re doing, my point was more about who they’re bringing up to replace Santana
Andujar has been tearing the cover off the ball at Indy and deserves a promotion
Palacios isn’t and doesn’t
And the GM has been clear, Henry Davis is being groomed to be the regular right fielder and won’t catch anymore so they will have to promote Delay or find another catcher to replace Hedges
Paul- I am hoping that BC is not that stupid.
He was shrewd enough to give Andujar a decent salary which is what has kept him in the system.That tells me that he has not yet given up on a player with a 990 OPS in AAA.
He may be waiting to see if he can trade Choi.Even keeping Choi Andujar should have been brought up now.
BC will have to making decisions on CSN,Mitchell,and Palacios this year as they will need room on their roster once the season ends.
of course BC is that stupid, he hired Shelton and gave him an extension this year
Paul- Shelton was given another year during the euphoria of April when even you saw the glass half full.
He was a lame duck manager which is not a good thing.
Maybe BC is stupid enough though to go down with the ship because he is keeping a bad manager for whatever reason.
You’re correct, Mendoza, April was a Pirate fan dream come true, until May arrived and the realization hit.
A long awaited dream turned into the reality of the annual failure to which we have come to expect under this management
Another base running blunder by Suwinski for allowing himself to be doubled up on a shallow fly ball
Reynolds was 0 for 9 straight Nola prior to tonight’s game including 6 strikeouts. He’s struck out two more times against Nola so far; so my question is why Shelton would bat Reynolds further down in the order or sit him in favor of Palacios?
And I’m tired of hearing Shelton defend Andy Haines
The Bucs are back to their normal form, Keller gives up a two run homer and the Bucs bats have struck out 4 times in their first 6 ABs
Holderman is this years clay Holmes.. someone will trade for him and he will become a dominant reliever while the pirates will give him away for 2 non factor prospects
More control and they know how to get production from Holderman. They will get a good return if someone is willing to pay it.
Holderman has already done 10x better than Clay Holmes ever did for the Pirates. I don’t fully blame the Pirates for giving up on Holmes. He had probably the best sinker/slider combination I had ever seen, but just zero command, and it’s not as if the Pirates gave him zero chances. For every pitcher with great stuff who eventually figures it out like Holmes, there are dozens of other names you don’t hear about because they flame out.
Holderman on the other hand has been really good this year. He struggled some in June, but some of that could probably be chalked up to his injury. If you eliminate the month of June from his numbers, which only makes up all of 4 innings, he has a 2.40 ERA, 2.69 FIP, and 1.10 WHIP.
He’s an all star!!!!
Terrible comp. Holmes did nothing in Pitt. Holderman has been solid and has a bright future
Urban legend has it, that the ageless junkballer, Rich Hill, once struck Jesus out on a curveball in the dirt.
You’re trying to say Jesus Christ can’t hit a curveball?
Well played!
Jesus has all the answers of time, space and the universe my friend; that being said, he was never able to hit a Major League curveball. It always bedeviled him.
How about a little crisco?
Jesus was a carpenter so he had good wood.
Just ship the ageless wonder back to Boston, where he belongs.
So glad the Mets traded Holderman for the amazing athlete that is Vogelbach. Ridiculous.
And that was one of the Mets smarter moves!
Holderman has a 0.2 WAR since the trade compared with Vogey’s 0.8. So nowhere near the disaster uninformed fans seem to think it is. Holderman is nothing special.
Holderman has been a lockdown set-up man for most of the season. Only time he struggled was in June, and that was just four innings and before he was placed on the IL for a week and a half. I don’t know about you, but I’ll gladly take Holderman 10x out of 10 over Vogelbach, as fun as Vogelbach was to watch with the Pirates.
@mlb1225: Not saying Vogelbach is anything great, but neither is Holderman. Classifying the trade as a loss for either team is a mistake. Mets needed a lefty DH and they got one. Pirates needed a lefty reliever and got one. Calling the trade ‘ridiculous’ from the Mets perspective makes little sense as Vogelbach has been worth more than Holderman.
Also, numbers are numbers. You don’t get to set aside Holderman’s struggles and injuries and declare him the better player. I could toss out a month of Vogelbach’s stats and do the same.
Well one, it wasn’t just a month’s worth, it was 4 innings worth of playing time. It’s not like he pitched 10-15 innings and struggled in all of them. Equivilant of that is like a week of playing time for a position player. I don’t think I can only take a week or two from Vogelbach’s season and make his numbers look good.
The only way you could possibly do that is to ignore both May and June, which is a total of 121 and 56.3% of his plate appearances this season. Holderman’s 4-inning June makes up less 13.3% of his total innings this year.
Vogelbach has not been nearly as effective as a hitter this season than Holderman has been as a pitcher. Using WAR for a reliever is not a good barometer. WAR in general is not the be all end all. Also, consider the fact Vogelbach has a negative WAR this season.
Saying Vogelbach is worth more than Holderman is only true in a WAR sense, and using WAR to compare pitchers to position players (and especially RPs to position players), it’s not a one-for-one translation, far from it. 2.0 WAR as a shortstop means something completley different as 2.0 WAR as a first baseman. 0.8 WAR as a DH is completely different as 0.2 WAR as a relief pitcher.
Holderman has been great in high leverage this year, which has been his primary job. Vogelbach’s primary job as a DH is to provide some thump. He did in the home stretch of last season, but has a .707 OPS. Among DHs with 200+ plate appearances this year, Vogey doesn’t crack the top 20 in OPS, wOBA, wRC+, isolated slugging, or slugging. Only rate statistics he is 20th or better in is OBP and walk rate.
Vogey is awesome. Mets fans absolutely love him.
Eat a dong, rct.
Dan Vogelbach is very fat
Vogey’s selling point has always been OBP & homeruns; this year he’s not hitting homeruns and if he gets on 1b, it takes about 3 hits to score him, which means he rarely scores. In summation, Vogey is very fat, slow, ambushes post game spreads and is virtually useless.
Vogelbach and Monaoh on a seesaw would be a sight.
Holderman is the perfect name for a setup man. Lol
Put him right between Starterman and Saverman.
Teams are interested in rich hill tells you how good a sellers market this is. He is sooo bad.
Perfect as a 5th starter on a team that has 3 playoff arms. Hey can go 5 6 innings 100 pitches 4 runs or less most the time.
4 runs in 5 innings isn’t good…hate to tell you
It is when you have a good lineup, need a starter and don’t want to part with any real prospects in a sellers market.
Well, even Noah Syndergaard got a change-of-scenery trade.
Good ole Dick Mountain.
Rich Hill would help settle down the Dodgers rotation. And he’s had success there before.
It’s a seller’s market. Sell anyone you get fair value for. Load up the farm for the rest of the decade.
Not surprisingly the Pirates are shipping all their good veterans out. I wonder if Reynolds is regretting signing that extension already? It seemed like the team fell apart after losing their big shortstop to injury for the season.
The Pirates lost Cruz after the first week of the seaoson. They were a good team for about another month after they lost Cruz. The rest of the team was playing so far over their heads, their play was reaching the stratosphere. I don’t believe they’re as bad as they’ve been playing, and I don’t believe they were as good as they were in April. If Reynolds is regretting the extension because the Pirates decided to trade Carlos Santana and are thinking about trading Rich Hill, then so be it. I get those guys are clubhouse leaders, and I agree that’s valuable, but only to a certain degree. The former hasn’t had an OPS+ above 100 since 2019, and the ladder might even retire next season, and he currently has the worst ERA of his career in any season where he started at least 15 games.
Nah they’re shipping out one year rentals. This is a bog standard approach for teams in the type of position the pirates are currently in. It was widely expected going into the season that the pirates would be dealing one year vet acquisitions at the deadline if they weren’t in contention.
I am sure he is regretting getting paid over 100 million. He was probably looking forward to hitting the market as a under 800 ops 31 year old left fielder.
Santana and Hill are both on expiring contracts and were never viewed as permanent solutions. Stocking the farm system is exactly what a rebuilding team should be doing.
they’ve been stocking the farm system since 2015 and they aren’t any better now as a result
And because the player development is so horrible, injuries such as the one that sidelined Cruz, there’s no one capable of making up for his loss
Teams like LA and the Braves have injuries, but their player development is so good that they can make up for the loss of key players
And rumors have it that Hayes is tired of the losing and might be asking for a trade this winter
Again, you made that up. The Pirates were still buying as recent as 2018. The farm system was one of the worst in baseball in 2019 with very little high end talent. The rebuild didn’t start until 2020.
the rebuild activity started in 2018, I hit the wrong number in my previous post
But whatever I’m not going to argue with you about it
The Pirates were buyers at the deadline in 2018, and then projected to compete for the postseason in 2019 before the wheels fell off that year. That’s why Huntington and co. were fired after the season. The MLB roster was mediocre and the farm system gutted from being buyers most of the previous 8 years.
Just say you were mixed up and move on, it’s not hard.
Whatever Buctober but the bottom line is they live in perpetual rebuild mode
Which should include management and coaches
They regressed this year offensively, fielding is mediocre with the exception of a few players and their base running skills are questionable
And no amount of prospects will help this franchise without first changing the player development team and starting over with another manager
how about instead putting me on mute. No one tells me to move on without me responding back
They’ve been rebuilding since 2020. Last time they did a full scale rebuild it was successful, maintaining the farm system is where the previous group failed. Jury is still out on everything still with this group. Having a top 3 farm system (#1 on Fangraphs) for the first time in decades is a good start, the previous group never had a farm system this good.
I don’t mute anyone, not even internet tough guys hahaha.
They didn’t really ‘rebuild’ in 2018. More like they tried to retool. If you remember, the same off-season they traded both Cole and McCutchen, they acquired Corey Dickerson, who was coming off an all-star season and had two more years of control remaining. They also went out and got Chris Archer and Keone Kela at the trade deadline. These are not moves that a team who is rebuilding makes.
Rebuilding is more of a complete teardown. If the Pirates were rebuilding in 2018, then instead of acquiring an all-star outfielder, and two major league pitchers, they would have traded guys like Josh Harrison, Jordy Mercer, and Francisco Cervelli, as all three whom were on the last (or next to last) guarenteed year of their deals, and probably would have traded Gregory Polanco given his strong 2018, as well as Starling Marte,
Reynolds did not sign a long term extension because he was thinking about being part of a team fronted by Rich Hill and Carlos Santana. They were temp measures to add some veteran bulk to a very young team. They did that. Neither would have been back next season, so trading for prospects is what you do.
I didn’t try to make a pun initially but is name should he Holdmybreath because that’s how I felt every time he was coming in this year. Nice velocity and K rates but was serving longballs left and right, and seemed to have a lot of rough outings. I wouldn’t trade him though because he could be good with a few tweaks.
He has been good this year. June was the only time where Holderman had trouble, and that’s right before he was put on the IL. Aside from the 4 innings he pitched in June, he has an ERA and FIP below 3.00.
I actually thought Holderman was better last year and certainly for the first month this year.
He is too good to trade though.
The Pirates need to keep the good young controllable players that they have.This guy has promise but is not going to bring such a haul to consider trading him.
Rich Hill was originally drafted in 1999 by the Cincinnati Reds.
He’s the last active MLB player to be drafted in the 20th century.
His career has spanned over 5 U S presidents.
Tom Brady was gearing up for his senior season at Michigan when Rich Hill was selected.
Rich Hill is old. That is all.
So if the Bucs trade Hill, they’ll literally be “Over the Hill!”.
Holderman meh. Not unless it’s part of a package with Erlichman, Mitchell and Dean
Holderman, bendar and Keller should not be on the trading block. They have years of control left. The pirates stupid management should be fired along with the owner. I don’t even know why people like the pirates. Heck, bob has the whole city brainwashed so he can have a cheap team and pocket the funds.
They’re not on the trading block. Other Teams showing interest in good players on a rebuilding team is going to happen. They might be willing to listen to offers, but that doesn’t mean they’re willing to trade them. It’s been said it would be extremely difficult to get the Pirates to trade Bednar or Keller.
I assume if the Pirates were listening on Bendar or Holderman, their starting asking price would be what the Yankees got for Aroldis Champan in 2016, if not more considering Chapman was a rental and both Bednar and Holderman aren’t even in arbitration yet. Put it like this: the last time a top closing pitcher in the league with 2+ years of control remaining was in 2018 when the Blue Jays traded Roberto Osuna. Of course, comparring Osuna to Bednar isn’t a one-for-one. The Jays were wanting to get rid of Osuna because of his off-field issues without just giving him up for free.
Everyone should be on the trading block. I collect cars and every single one of them is available for the right price or trade. Pirates management isn’t stupid compared to other teams. I don’t think they will trade them unless it’s something of more value. Keller only has 2 more seasons left. If he doesn’t want to extend then he has 1 more season left. Relievers are the easiest thing to replace and are volatile. You always trade them when you aren’t contending and someone gives you starters. Spending $ doesn’t mean success. Look at SD NY etc. Want Bob to spend 30 40 50 60 million on a 1b when Santana for 7 is better just to spend $ ? I know you won’t change your opinion. I just love to tell the hard truth and piss off pirates fans. Most know I speak the truth they would just rather yell their fake narrative and be miserable and complain.
Not saying the Buc should trade Bednar, but he’ll command a big return if he is traded.
The D-Backs have a solid farm system that’s heavy with OF prospects. Bucs have lots of INF prospects but their cup isn’t running over in the outfield. Right now, D-Backs, firmly in the playoff hunt, are trying out their fourth closer (Ginkel) after the others failed.
An all-star closer is a luxury for a losing team. As Dream GM stated above, every asset is for sale at the right price. Besides, a team can always groom a closer from within (Contreras ?) are buy a veteran set up guy and move him up a notch.
Bednar and Keller to AZ for Drew Jones and Lawler!
This is the right move.
I Agee with the above content.
Gee I wonder what team has interest in him…
Real Pirate fans want the team to win.They are not concerned about this perpetual rebuild and storing good young players in the minors.
I have serious doubts as to whether Nutting wants to win.He May be tired and looking to sell.Cherington is obviously unwilling to make the major changes necessary to make this team fundamentally sound.
Any great team,and even the very good teams,have continuity in players and management.This happens even in this period of free agency.When they do not win either or both are jettisoned.
The Pirates signed both Reynolds and Hayes in part to maintain some semblance of continuity.Trading proven players for several minor leaguers is like paying top dollar free agents-taking a big chance.
The Pirates are getting fringe free agents partly because no one wants to play for a continually losing team,It was part of the reason why Machado was hesitant to sign with San Diego.I think it part of the reason why Keller may not be receptive here to sign an extended offer.
Trading Bednar,who is a local celebrity with fire on the mound,would be a huge loss,and a failure to commit to winning.Anyone who thinks that a closer on a losing team with three years of control is not a very important player is content with losing forever.
And they are not real fans of the team.
Hill, see ya. Holderman, makes no sense to trade him now since his current value is lower than what it can be given some recent struggles.
I think it’s safe to say the bucs would accommodate any team who throws their hat in the hedges sweepstakes. Could be a throw in with hill too
Batter-It is easy to cap on a 177 hitter but Hedges has been a real help with the pitching staff.The Pirates were smart in getting Cutch,Hill,and Hedges to help with the young players.That is the reason why they will keep Hedges,to help Endy and perhaps Davis,unless someone offers them a reasonably good young player for him.
Don’t forget to include the recently departed Santana among that group. High praise on his end for helping clubhouse morale especially
Batter- I purposely left him off and knew that you would respond accordingly.
I was against signing him especially for that much money as they could gotten another decent starter for it.They got Choi before his signing and I thought that Choi was a decent player.
They signed Cutch at the last minute so BC May have thinking along your lines in getting Santana.
I do think that Santana was a plus but in the end another Rich Hill type starter would have given them more depth that they obviously do not have now
K
LOL, sure they are.
I think the Pirates would be smart to move either Davis or Rodriguez for help at another position, most likely pitching. Keeping both does nothing but diminish the value of both. Moving a catcher to right field takes away most of his value because his bat is usually not even as good as the average right fielder and his defensive value is all behind the plate. Look at how Kansas City has all but ruined MJ Melendez with the same tactic. There are teams out there (Cubs, Yankees, Marlins) that would pay a high price for a young catching prospect and I think the Pirates ought to strike while the iron is hot.
And the best part is that when trading prospect for prospect, all 29 teams come into play, not just “buyers” or “sellers.”
Both Davis and Rodriguez have bats that play elsewhere. They don’t just hit well “for a catcher”, they just hit well in general.
Rodriguez will mostly catch as he is the superior defensive catcher, but Davis’s bat plays in RF, at 1B, and at DH. He’ll still catch a couple days a week anyways.
The Pirates are doing the right thing, you don’t trade a good hitting prospect just because he plays the same position as another one. You simply move one of them to another position like they’re doing. Plus, catchers are injured regularly, so you can never have enough depth (Pirates fans know this better than most).
Well good luck to you then.
Trade away either of their two top new catchers just up??
Good God.
I’m not God, I just play him on TV.
I know Hedges is extremely frustrating to watch hit, and I’ve definitley seen Pirates pitchers with a better ability to hit. But I do commend the work he’s done with the pitching staff, and all the pitchers love him. Plus you can really tell a difference between someone who is as good as he is behind the plate compared to like Jason Delay, or last year with Andrew Knapp.
Just how bad would your catching situation need to be to trade FOR Hedges?
Hiflew-I was surprised that they do not seem to think that Davis is a ML catcher but they may have put him in right field to see how well he hits.They had a gigantic hole at catcher and that is the main reason why he was drafted number one.If he hits like an all star they may want to leave him in RF because catching is such a physically demanding position.
The Pirates need starting pitching and I think that Skenes will be a star if physically able.BC will get another scrap heap starter who pitches reasonably well but this is where Nutting needs to bite the bullet and sign someone like Sonny Gray.
With a new manager and several new coaches and farm director this team could contend next year in this weak division as long a BC does not do anything stupid.
I think that Davis will be the second or third catcher if Endy works out reasonably well.The Pirates need depth in order to actually compete.
I just do not have the confidence that this management team and owner really want to win,have fallen in love with the rebuild,and will not take the necessary steps that are needed to make this a winning team that can finally compete for the division title.
Once Hill is traded the focus will be on finding a taker for McCutchen. Possibly Philly or Oakland
You again.
They’re not trading Cutch. Give it a rest.
And Oakland? Really?
Yeah, this dude enjoys riling up the fanbase but I could actually see Cutch okaying a return to Philly. Don’t think it would happen but geographically it’s not a bad move and one last chance to be involved in a wild card run? Who could blame him?
Welcome back young man.
Not much to add these days, my friend but hey, this is the most wonderful time of year for Pirates fans.
Pillow-Slider just likes to get his digs in.
He is harmless.
Sometimes he has funny ones,but I have to believe that they are all in jest.
Lol Mets,
Maybe the Mets can trade them back Vogelbach for Holderman.
Who tf wants hedges?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Rays as we are getting very little defensively from the catcher position!! He may not hit over 150 but he will save us some runs!!
Teams are asking about a catcher that can’t hit even close to the Mendoza line?
I remember when he was on the Padres and him hitting 8th was like having two pitchers hit back to back.
James as I mentioned it would be for his defense and saving runs
Teams want Hedges for his D.
Trade them all, but if Keller gets dealt I’ll lose all faith
I’m in complete agreement now. Build around Davis, Endy, Cruz and Suwinski. Anyone else can go
I’ve lost all faith
As for Keller, I’m amazed at how many people are willing to overlook his past few starts which have featured him returning to those lovely days of throwing pitches dead red. It’s beyond troubling and hopefully just a mid-season blip
I just don’t see how they can build a functional rotation without him
if they won’t pay competent starting pitchers to stick around , there’s no point
He looked better last night, thankfully
Yes, and I’d agree again. He’s the only consistent starter that they currently have and likely will have for the next year or two.
They bent over backwards to sign Hayes and Reynolds, two dubious signings in retrospect. But if a signing was ever pressing, it’s this one
while I agree the extensions havent looked great, I’d say it’s a lot less dubious than the typical alternative options aka 38 year olds or AAAA guys
Go-While the Hayes and Reynolds extensions have not really provided big dividends,they were important messages that said that Nutting wanted to invest in the team.
I think that both players are tired of all the losing,which is understandable.
I also think that both have been adversely affected by their back tightness.
Both of these guys are good players but are limited as far as being consistent all stars.I do think that both will play better in the future and hopefully prove that the signings were not in error.
agreed. they’re long term extensions so have them when they have great seasons too.
Not going to be over critical of short term results in a longterm plan, even tho in not preferable
and although the Hayes contract has Mr a little worried of a Gregory Polanco situation,
They’re 2 completely different players.. Both have injury prone tags, but Gregory was an uber athletic guy with all the potential to be a star but lacked certain fundamentals.
Hayes is a guy who’s very skilled at 3B , and tho may never be an overwhelming talent, he’s shown the ability to produce some power and speed on the basepaths.
Hayes is a safer bet to live up to the contract, where as Polanco was a wildcard to either vastly out-play his earnings or bust as a raw talent that never reached potential.
Who would be checking in on Hedges? The orioles? Giants? Why?
SD-Nobody would want him because his real talent is working with young pitchers and a trade now would not give him enough time to get acquainted with a new pitching staff.
Is Connor Joe losing playing time now that Davis is up, or does he still have a clear path to playing time? How available would he be? It seems a few teams are looking for right handed platoon bats.
Yeah, he is getting a spot start every once in awhile but I’d say Davis being in RF and looking like the real deal has limited his opportunities. Clear path? No
I’d have to think he’d be available to any team looking for that right handed bat
Kid-Joe is not playing because he is not a particularly good player.He was insurance for first base and a right handed hitting outfielder.They have young players now who need the playing time.
He is one player who I would take anything in return.
Hill and Hedges should not be traded unless they get someone close to what was received for Santana.
Hedges is a mentor for both Endy and Davis.Hill is an innings eater on a bad team with less than paper thin depth in starting pitching.
I’m going to predict Hill, Joe and Choi all go in the grand Pirates fashion. The only reason I don’t list Hedges is I’m not sure there’s any real market for him
Mendoza, I think there’s a market for a guy like that who is really good against left handed pitching. He’s got a 138 wRC+ against lefties and it looks to be supported by the peripheral numbers. Lane Thomas is a popular name right now but it sounds like Washington might really like him and want to keep him. O’Neill or Carlson are other names but it’s not clear how likely they are to be moved. I think Joe looks like a guy you could argue is as good a bet as those guys to help a roster looking for situationally useful players. I’m coming from a Toronto perspective where we’ve been treated to a 77 wRC+ performance left vs left this year. I think the Phillies and Dodgers are also looking for right handed bats.
Kid, you’re right, of course. A guy like Joe or a few others might flourish given the right team and different mindset as to what he is supposed to do
Here, his failures are magnified as being a part of an ultra anemic offense that seemingly has few answers game in and game out. Last night is a good example, as a good start by Keller was wasted once again.
Kid- You may very well be correct on this opinion.The Pirates’ manager did not seem to want to platoon at several positions where it could have been beneficial.Joe indeed seems to be able to hit left handed pitchers well.Inasmuch as he is much younger than Santana and controllable perhaps they should at least get a player like the one that Santana was traded for.Maybe they can showcase him to the Phillies in the current series!
I agree that Shelton was reluctant to platoon. But I chalked that up to it was more important for the big picture of our organization to see what exactly Joe (and Castro) could and couldn’t do, than it was to maximize the game to game effectiveness during a season in which we weren’t realistically gonna compete for the playoffs. It was super frustrating to watch especially as teams like the giants make platooning work. But….now we know that we can have both leave the org without a high risk of ex post facto regret.
Touch-I will have to respectfully disagree.
This is just another area where Shelton is not a ML manager.
If both these players can hit lefthanders reasonably well but not righthanders,play them against lefthanders only.It also frees up time for other players.
If you find better players ,fine,but at least you will get a decent player in return when you inevitably trade them.
The Pirates are not nearly good enough to not maximize their resources.Plus it gives the team a better chance to actually win games,which,by now,should very well be a prime priority.
But it is not.
On the broadcast yesterday the Booth said Ben said that Davis will be catching after the deadline. Decent clue that they have some promising interest in Hedges.
Joe-Maybe.I am of the unpopular opinion though that they should keep both him and Hill because they will not get anything for either and they both serve purposes.Hill,because their starting pitching is paper thin,and Hedges to act as a mentor to the two young catchers.
I am working the phones late tonight. By 6pm Tuesday I got Hedges going to Tampa or NY. Hill Boston or Arizona.
Bob wants that $. Hedges mentored enough and they want Davis to get reps and Delay spent all that time with Hedges so he should know something. Alldred has been sitting at AAA all year. Ortiz will need another look. Lots of guys getting dfa to pick up.
Hope Choi is traded. Seattle is perfect fit.
Don’t see teams paying for our non rentals but can dream on some team going crazy.
Can’t believe you all are still going at it. Get that Hill trade down so you can move over there.