4:00pm: The Brewers have now officially announced the deal.
2:06pm: The Brewers and Pirates are in agreement on an intra-division trade that’ll send first baseman Carlos Santana from Pittsburgh to Milwaukee, reports Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Twitter link). Minor league infielder Jhonny Severino is headed back to the Pirates in the deal.
Santana, 37, signed a one-year deal worth a guaranteed $6.725MM in Pittsburgh over the offseason. He’s still owed about $2.42MM of that sum between now and season’s end. Milwaukee has a need at first base with Rowdy Tellez on the injured list, and the veteran Santana has outplayed Tellez this season anyhow.
In 393 trips to the plate, the switch-hitting Santana is batting .235/.321/.412 with a dozen homers, 25 doubles and six stolen bases. He’s been almost exactly league average at the plate (99 wRC+), whereas Tellez has struggled to a .213/.285/.388 batting line in 288 trips to the plate. Santana is also one of the game’s top defensive first baseman; despite the fact that he’s never won a Gold Glove, he’s amassed 17 career Defensive Runs Saved and 20 Outs Above Average at first base — including respective marks of plus-6 and plus-2 in 2023. Tellez has graded below average (-1 DRS, -3 OAA).
Santana has been particularly productive at the plate as the season has shifted to summer. Dating back to June 1, he’s hitting .244/.319/.470 with nine of his 12 homers and 11 of his 25 doubles. He’s sporting a characteristically strong walk rate (11.5%) against a lower-than-average strikeout rate (17.6%) and has nearly identical platoon splits on the season. Brewers general manager Matt Arnold spoke this week about not wanting to subtract from the team’s defense in order to improve the lineup, and acquiring Santana gives the Crew a solid bat and improved defense at one of their weakest positions this season.
In Tellez’s absence, Milwaukee has been deploying utilityman Owen Miller at first base. The right-handed-hitting Miller has performed reasonably well, batting .266/.305/.378 with above-average defense at multiple positions. The acquisition of Santana will allow him to revert to a multi-position role, slotting in at second and third base in addition to occasional time around the outfield.
In return for the final few months of Santana’s 2023 season, the Pirates will acquire the 18-year-old Severino — one of Milwaukee’s top signings during the 2021-22 international free agency period. Severino has played in parts of two minor league seasons since signing, turning in a combined .264/.324/.432 batting line with seven homers, 13 doubles, a pair of triples and 15 stolen bases. He’s walked at a six percent clip in his young professional career and fanned in 26% of his plate appearances — most of which have come against older and more advanced competition. He opened the 2023 season with the Brewers’ affiliate in the Arizona Complex League, where he’s about two years younger than the average player.
Both Baseball America and MLB.com ranked Severino among the top 30 prospects in the 2021-22 international class, and the Brewers accordingly paid him a $1.23MM bonus at the time of his signing. BA’s Ben Badler touted the switch-hitting Severino as an offensive-minded infielder who’d likely end up moving off shortstop but has plus raw power from both sides of the dish and an advanced hit tool as a right-handed bat. MLB.com’s report on him noted his above-average arm strength and strong frame, all of which could point to a third base profile. Of course, as a teenager who’s just now getting going in Rookie ball, Severino is years away from having any sort of impact at the MLB level. He’ll add some power potential to the lower tiers of the Pirates’ farm system.
With Santana now in Milwaukee, the Bucs figure to give Ji-Man Choi and/or Connor Joe increased reps at first base — although both Choi and Joe themselves are trade candidates. Should the Pirates move one or both players, it’d open more opportunity for the Pirates to get top catching prospects Endy Rodriguez and Henry Davis into the lineup on the same day. They could also conceivably take another look at former Yankee Miguel Andujar, whom they’ve twice passed through waivers since acquiring him. Andujar isn’t currently on the 40-man roster but has obliterated Triple-A pitching, slashing .343/.405/.545 in 333 plate appearances. He can be controlled another two years if he’s added back to the roster.
Not a bad pickup.
Don’t stop there though! More bats!! MOREEEEEEEEE
Is that the guitar player they just picked ^
2009 just called…they want their joke back.
Smoooooooooth
it’s being reported that the Marlins made an offer for Santana. I wonder who they were offering in exchange?
I’m a Pirates fan and I knew this was inevitable as soon as Choi returned and has been doing well. Santana is going to be missed by Pirates fans.
okay armchair GMs here that seem to think they know everything, allow me to ask this one question
By trading Santana and perhaps Rich Hill, are the Pirates sending a message that they have given up on the current season? The season that is in year 3 of the latest rebuild? The season that was supposed to show significant improvement and instead failed miserably
This season has been over for a while. Only Keller has shown significant improvement. Many went in the other direction. If you look at what the Reds and Orioles have done you would be cleaning house again and get yourself a new GM, manager and coaches. They have failed us when we should be at least starting to compete. Another 100 loss season but we should get another high draft pick.
Keller had a phenomenal first half but has himself regressed recently.
He’s been trying to win his 10th game since before the AS break and has given up 13 runs I bet in his last 3 starts
BUT, I partially blame Shelton as he’s often too slow in taking out a starter when that pitcher is losing his stuff
Is getting another good first round pick the objective of this team?
I do agree that they will lose 100 games for the 3rd straight season
I don’t think they’ll lose 100. Simply because they’re better on the field and the Central is much weaker. 90 plus? Not going to argue that.
Santana may not have hit for a high average but he did lead the team in doubles, RBI and was 2nd in walks drawn
They won’t be able to replace that, especially with a team whose players struggle so much with just putting the bat on the pitch when thrown
You can blame the GM, the coaches, bad luck… but the only constant through decades of awfulness is the ownership.
@panj The Bucs would need to lose 43 out of their final 60 games to reach 100 losses. That level of futility seems too much, even for the Pirates.
Thus far in July they are 5-16. It’s conceivable that they could go 17-43 in their last 60 games
Well, when you put it like that…
Always-Taking away the statistical aberration month of April,they have played at a 338 winning % which,if continued,would put them at 65-97.
What impact will be shown in trading their one year rental players?
I hope that they can win 69 games but I can see them losing 100 games again which basically shows no improvement over the four year long “rebuild”.
And they also have many games with the Cubs and Brewers,two teams in their division which I do not think that they have beaten.
Hundo p
I guess there’s no point out the Orioles lost 115, 108, 95 (if a full season had been played) and 110 from 18-21. Or the Astros lost 106, 107, 111 and 92 from 11-14.
Rebuilds take time. Of course, it would go better if the Pirates had fans worthy of a good team.
Pax-What condescending outsiders like you do not realize is that except for three years we have been hearing this trash for thirty years.
And the Pirates are not guaranteed to become a very good team like the Orioles and Astros have become.
And why does it take seemingly much less time for other teams to regain competitiveness?
Because there’s no reason for ownership to spend money. Because even when he did and the team was winning, fans still didn’t buy tickets.
Sorry, but other than Oakland, and that’s for purely stadium reasons, Pittsburgh is the franchise that most needs to move to a city where the fans will buy tickets.
Pdx-That is not true.
They did buy tickets during the 2013-2015 period.Maybe not as many as some teams would have,but the stadium was a popular place during basically all of that period.
The Steelers have always been more popular,even during the 1960’s when they were losers most of the years.
The fans will buy tickets with a winning club.
What you do not understand though is that they have bad for so long that even really good fans eventually lose interest.It is only human nature.
2015. Third straight year the Pirates made the playoffs. Finished 15th in MLB in attendance. Behind two teams that lost 90+ games.
Every excuse Pirates fans come up with to “explain” their poor attendance just proves that the team needs to relocate.
Pdx-You genuinely have a passion for getting the Pirates to relocate.
They were in the upper half of both leagues during that three year period.
That’s not bad for a small market team.
The large market teams are guaranteed a place near the top.
Half the mid market teams draw well even in lesser years.
I think that you have harped on this topic before.I recall that the Brewers May have been one of the teams with over 90 losses that year.
Perhaps your expertise is such that you can apply for the commissioner’s job when Manfred is next up for selection.
Nope, not passionate about anything to do with the Pirates. Just enjoy pointing out that ownership doesn’t spend money on the team because the fans don’t buy tickets when they do.
This season home attendance at PNC Park has increased an average of 5000 fans per game over last season
Pittsburgh is a small market city and one of the reasons for the increase is the signing of Andrew McCutchen this past offseason.
He’s a fan favorite, made his professional mark here, and owns a home in the city. Each time his name is announced, the fans give him a rousing tribute
To attract on average of 20000 fans a game for a perennial loser, that’s an accomplishment
From 2013-2015, fan attendance at PNC Park set stadium records so apparently you are unaware of this fact
In addition the stadium capacity is 35000 while most of the other stadium in the league, capacity is closer to 45000
Pdx-And it has become apparent to me that you clearly do enjoy doing that,for whatever reason or reasons.
At least you realize that even though the facts say otherwise.
Stadium records only good enough for 15th (at best) in attendance. Ballpark smaller than everybody else’s.
Thank you for providing more proof that the team needs to move to another city.
I’m just tired of Pirate fans ALWAYS saying it’s the fault of ownership. When, again, there’s no reason for ownership to spend money on a team that fans won’t buy tickets to see even when that ownership does spend money.
Biggest whiny babies in the nation live in Pittsburgh.
Pbx- You are right about Yinzers complaining about ownership.
What you do not understand,and patently refuse to understand,is why they do not get more people to support bad teams.
There are reasons why they have been this bad for so long.The previous two ownerships were under severe money restraints and were poorly run,but the present one got the team out of the red and kept the team in Pittsburgh.He will spend when the extra money will do some good to aid a competitive team.If and when that happens people will start coming back to the park.
But just because Brewer fans will support bad teams does not mean that every team’s fans have to do so.
Lol, who said they were struggling to make a profit and just got out of the red? According to Forbes they were the 8th most profitable team in the league last year, slashing salaries and collecting revenue sharing funds. There’s a pretty good reason their attendance is low and many fans are demoralized… unless you enjoy cheering for artificial markets and crony capitalism.
Case- Lol,if you are referring to my post Nutting did that when and shortly after he bought the team many years ago.
His operating income last year was about 4% of the value of the franchise.
Maybe you should go back to second grade and learn to read accurately.
I’ll be sure to when and shortly go back to second grade :)(:
They aren’t going to win many games if they’re forced to depend only on a few veterans
Their pitiful offensive performance in last night’s game, only getting 5 hits while striking out over 10 times
Williams is out of his element in the majors, he swings at pitches nowhere close to the strike zone
Suwinski is 4-23 in the lead off position and Gonzalez no longer impresses me. He’s probably out of his element too
And lastly, Shelton is a horrible manager
Since when does attendance ranking became a stat that people should be so concerned about?
The owner of the Pirates isn’t, he turns a nice profit every year and there is more to revenue than the attendance
In case you weren’t aware of this fact
Milwaukee draws fans even with bad teams because during the warm months there’s really nothing else to do in that dump of a city
Wisconsin is famous for its cheese and the Packers, but for much else
Before retiring I worked at a TC Energy facility in Marshfield Wisconsin
While the people were very nice, the area was a complete bore
It was the most boring 2 weeks of my life
I can only imagine that’s how to describe any area in that state
No. This signing specifically was done with the thought of trading Santana for prospects if they were not in contention at the deadline. Very classic rebuilding move. I’m not a buccos fan, but they clearly are on the up. They are amassing as much talent to compete in the future and one way of doing that is to dip your toe into FA and trade away some useful pieces at the deadline if you aren’t ready to make your own trades to go for it. It’s a process, some teams like the Reds and Orioles just (and Brewers if you go a few seasons back) get to their end point faster.
stocking talent in a franchise whose player development is lacking doesn’t end the perpetual losses
They’ve been rebuilding for 3 years, restocking their minor leagues and for those efforts, they are once again in last place.
Every spring we’re told things will be different this year and every summer the fans realize they have again been lied to
I’ve been a Pirate fan since 1966, as many here know.
Have witnessed in person several phenomenal games, hitter accomplishments, through the good and lean years, through the drug trials of the 80’d and every year since
Personally I’ve become cynical about more potential prospects only to realize that the poor player development isn’t maturing these prospects into successful major league players
I’m 68 and retired. I want to, but probably won’t, ever see another WS championship in this city
No no no, Man3!! Keep the chin up old boy!!
I feel your pain as well and I loved those Gene Alley, Jim Pagliaroni and Bob Baily years of the mid 60’s!!
Baby steps…increments…little by little.
I see a 2026 real playoff squad studded by
Hayes, Cruz, Johnson, Reynolds, Davis, Skenes, Keller, etc….
Your 70th the year will be special!
Keller will probably be traded before 2026, by then Reynolds will be 31 and possibly past his prime, Hayes has indicated that he’s tired of the losing and could demand a trade, and while I get your positive attitude, there’s too many tangible’s that could derail any idea of a winning club
The world needs more u lol way to be positive!
Yup
I would rather trade for the grizzled corpse of Jimi Hendrix to play firstbase thank you very much…in house Star Spangled Banner every night, saves on guest singers.
Didn’t even have to trade Casey Blake to get him…what a steal.
Some cool tunes to go with cold Brew!
Ice cold beer here
GET YOUR ICE COLD BUDLIGHT
ICE COLD BEER
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GET YOUR ICE COLD BUDLIGHT
ICE COLD BEER
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Was hoping Seattle would do this
This made me look at what Ty France is doing this year …. And ouch.
Yeah, I have Ty on my fantasy team this year and he mostly just rides the pine. I can’t quite bring myself to drop him due to his track record and draft position, but I also can’t justify playing him except maybe when most teams are off that day but SEA is playing. Very disappointing season so far for him and the Mariners in general.
If the Mariners are serious about upgrading their 1B this winter, they’d non-tender France. But the Mariners are never serious, so they’ll continue to ride below league average production from their 1B because “cost-control” and France Night at the ballpark.
@reynaldo- They won’t non-tender him after one bad season. Look at how doing such a thing has come back to bite the Tigers with Candelario (although he’s cooled off substantially).
Let’s go?
Thanks for everything Carlos, you were a good leader in the Burgh.
If only the Brewers could find a way to get Lane Thomas. Love his bat
I think they’d need to overpay for Thomas though. Though thanks to the Angels giving away high prospects for rentals, probably everything will need to be an overpay this year. I think Candelario is the best fit for the Crew from the Nationals. Hits with some pop. Adds at least an improvement on his average to our lineup. And hopefully wouldn’t cost an arm and a leg. Though if they could work out a good deal for Candelario and Thomas, that wouldn’t be so bad. Because we could definitely still use 2 bat improvements in the lineup.
Yeah but angels had to overpay because they are trying to show Ohtani they can compete and try to keep him. Other teams don’t face that same dilemma, so I wouldn’t expect a lot of top prospects to be exchanged this hot stove.
The Angels should’ve been trying long before this deadline to show Ohtani how strong their commitment was to winning while they had him and Trout though. The likelihood that this trade does anything to move the needle on their chances of resigning him is slim. Honestly they’re fooling themselves if they think this does anything to help their case. I saw someone say they probably have like a 5 percent chance of resigning him? And that seems pretty accurate. Dodgers have the money, the playoff consistency and are on the west coast, which is likely what he’s looking for. Especially if they don’t even make the playoffs still, the overpay is just going to look worse and worse when he still doesn’t resign.
They actually made a lot of moves in the off-season problem is everyone got hurt.
We have no idea how long that they had been trying. It takes 2 to tango and no real moves started til the the Halos mad this deal. No one was ready to pull the trigger til now.
The Angels are poorly run, they should trade Ohtani and rebuild but they’re unrealistic about their ability to win.
We Nats fans have become enamored of both Thomas and Candelario. There is no replacement at 3B down on the farm, and Thomas is the only legit full-service outfielder we have. He’s emerged a star and has two more years of control. Hope Thomas stays. As for Candelario, he is a much better defender than I ever knew. Rock solid in the field, and has been consistently productive at the plate. Also a solid citizen. Why trade guys like that? Now, can we interest you in Dom Smith or Corey Dickerson???
Mid-waukee Brewers
Wish this would have happened before he hit all of those home runs against the Padres the last few weeks!
Ya, now he gets another 3 games against the padres.
Now Neil Shon and Greg Rollie and you have something.
Deep cut
And some guy name Jhonny was their sole sacrifice.
Neil, Greg and how about Gheddy +Neil dump that loser Alex. now we’re really jamming! sorry Alex love ya but u knew this was inevitable…..or should’ve been..ha
Thanks Carlos
While I know that Carlos Santana wasnt a hot commodity, I was kinda hoping we would get something else than an 18 year old. Is what it is either way. It was nice having a 1B that could actually field the position and hit a little.
Clearly it was a salary dump, because of the age of the player they got in return
Santana is a good leader and will be missed in the clubhouse
I suspect they will promote Andujar now to share first base duties with Choi.
I imagine Endy/Davis will also see time at 1B, more so Endy.
except that they aren’t going to play Hedges that often, Endy might play first on occasion but they brought him up to catch
There’s really no such thing as salary dumping a rental. Santana’s value probably isn’t very high to start with. He’s an older first baseman who has short-side platoon splits (only good against LHP). He has value in a platoon role to a contender, but it’s not as if he’s a rare commodity. With Santana, you just got to take the best offer possible. Like I said, I wish we got back a little more than just an 18 YO infielder, but I was not expecting much more than that either.
Santana is still owed $2 million plus and considering this kid isn’t making even a fraction of that, to me it’s a salary dump. That’s money Nutting doesn’t have to pay out
So every trade where a team is unloading any money is a salary dump? Look, Santana is a rental 1B, who is 37. There are 24 first basemen with a qualifiying number of plate appearances. Santana ranks 20th in BA and wRC+, 18th in OBP and slugging percentage, 16th in weighted on base average, 14th in isolated slugging, and 13th in fWAR. Considering that he only has two months of control left, I don’t know what you expected to get out of him.
it’s my opinion, do you often argue with everyone who has an opinion?
SMH
Compared to what the Brewers have been rolling out at first this is a great addition with no cost to the near-ready farm.
I’m not trying to start an argument, and I’m sorry if it came off that way. But I don’t agree with your stance, that is all.
“Only good vs LHP” is something the Crew has been missing. Looks like a good value pickup.
Not a salary dump at all. Santana was very much in demand. Not a platoon. He has been above league average vs lhp and rhp this year. They received a legit prospect. As Buctober said he received a bonus of over 1 million. Pirates could have got a older prospect but went with more raw upside. You wouldn’t receive this much ceiling if you went older. I never seen Severino play so reached out to someone who has. Athletic and advance bat ball. Thinks he will end up at 3b or rf.
Don’t apologize to that grumpy old man. Any time anyone gives him facts he acts like you are attacking him. If it was a total salary dump the Pirates would be attaching prospects to Santana. We actually got a lottery ticket for a player we no longer have use for.
I like Santana and thought he was a worthwhile investment. I believe he was helpful but it time to get others at bats. Mostly Trillo with Hayes coming back.
To some having a difference of opinion is an argument. I agree with you.
Not every trade is a salary dump, but every Pirates trade probably is. Forbes listed them as one of the top 5 most profitable teams in the league, not bad for decades of bad teams with almost no attempts to become competitive.
Exactly, they dont have to pay him 2.42 million. They signed VV for about that this offseason. That’s money that just increased the profit margin.
I speak the nonsense, in case you haven’t noticed, the Bucs are almost as bad offensively this season as last season
Trading for prospects with this franchise doesn’t always equate to major league success
It’s a never ending cycle of signing free agents only to trade for prospects and do it again the following season
This is year 3 of the latest rebuild and they are no better than they were last year
And Hayes reportedly isn’t happy with the perpetual losing and has inquired about a possible trade
The thing is, you’re posting on a message board, so when making a claim that is most likely not true, people will disagree. This is a fair return for Santana, who is a rental, therefore most would not categorize it how you categorized it.
@mlb1225 just curious where you can find those stats at a drop of a hat or did you have those in your head already? I think it would take me 20 minutes to gather all of that. But I’m old.
Mlb just makes those stats up. Knows everyone is too lazy to fact check them.
@Ignorant FanGraphs’ leaderboards are pretty easy to navagate. Just go to the batting leaders, and you can sort through by position, amount of plate appearances, and stats.
It wasn’t a salary dump lol. It’s trading an average player for an expiring contract for a lottery ticket. Teams do this every season. The Pirates have zero reason to keep Santana past the deadline.
Not a salary dump. Is there any Pirates fan who didn’t think that he was signed just for this? Hill is next and I’m ok with that. Gotta play the younger players. Choi will fill in fine, unless he’s next, which wouldn’t surprise me.
Of course he was signed just to be traded. They do this every year. They saved 2.4 million that they don’t have to pay him. You can call it whatever you want My problem isn’t trading him but seeming desperation to dump him 5 days before the deadline for a guy who probably wont even make the major leagues and will be at least 4-5 years before he does. I think it should have been something better than this with this timeline. Milwaukee has the immediate need,
Clearly it was a trade of a pending FA that at 37 and having his best season in several years that they would not be looking to extend as he will surely regress. There is no real salary left to dump.
$2 million dollars is money Nutting doesn’t have to pay out the rest of the year
Nutting is a tightwad
Hey, no one will disagree Bob Nutting is cheap. But shedding money is not the purpose of the trade. It’s a byproduct of it.
They will only promote Andujar if they can find a taker for Joe..
Taker or not, Joe needs to go. He’s second only to Suwinski for striking out whilst looking and Jack leads the league in that category
Jack is young and still learning major league pitching. Joe should know better
Exactly what happened. There was no reason to do it 5 days before the deadline for a 18 year old “we hope.” Milwaukee needs the 1B this season. The pirates dont need whoever he is.
When they signed the guy and other free agents the plan was to trade them at the deadline and get more young talent. Given that goal it was not a salary dump. Hopefully the young guy they got in this trade will work. I understand your frustration, and at some point we have to stop looking to the future. Next year will not be that time and they will continue to sign guys with the intent of trading them. I do think BC has done a good job of finding guys who have value at the trade deadline.
It’s not a salary dump at all. Santana is on a one year, very reasonable contract.
It’s the typical “lottery ticket” for an average rental you see at the deadline every year. Santana didn’t have much trade value, he’s a solid player, but nothing special.
I like the lottery ticket approach with a guy like that. Severino has a ton of raw power (he’s going to be a 3rd baseman most likely). Oneil Cruz was a lottery ticket once upon a time. I’d rather get someone with a ton of upside than a low ceiling AAAA player for a rental like Santana.
Can’t expect much more than a lotto ticket for a guy hitting middle of the road at age 37.
This is what I was hoping to get for him if we moved him, if we didn’t it woundnt be a bad idea for veteran presence.
And Severino isn’t just a typical lotto ticket, the Brewers signed him for $1.3 million last year. He’s got tons of raw power and was sought after by a lot of teams.
@mlb1225:
Santana wasn’t bad, but you are right- a hot commodity he is certainly not. Therefore I was quite surprised that the Pirates managed to parlay his contract into a solid prospect with upside. To me, this seems like a very good return.
Gruß,
BSHH
I don’t think beggers can be chosers.
Santana wasn’t worth much. glad they got a high upside kid for him.
if it was a AAA guy it would be someone with Rule 5 value at best
Not saying I was disspointed by the return. This was what was expected to me. Just wish we got something a little closer to MLB readiness.
Yeah, the Front Office wanted to give us a reminder of how bad first base play was in the preceding years before Carlos. Lot of Pirate pitchers going “now we’re really screwed”!
If I am being honest, this is the first time I my conceious life I can remember the Pirates having a 1B who wasn’t a terrible hitter and could field the position too.
Ya I really liked the Big Santa (under-used nickname) pickup,
but knew he was doomed to deadline dump
He’s 18 but playing really well in rookie ball and has legit upside. I’m a Brewers fan btw, I don’t think it’s a bad return.
ya I agree.
like I said, can either get a kid tearing up single A , or a guy having a really bad season at AAA with some upside
I like the first option more
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
Another shortstop, Pirates?
To the Brewers yet? That’s the best you could do with Santana?
Santana is a 37 year old 1B who has platoon splits vs LHP, and is a rental. He might not be a bad player, but he’s far from a highly sought after guy.
A shortstop that will undoubtedly end up playing at another position because the Pirates don’t believe in allowing a player to play at their best position.
and at the young age of 18, it will be 4-6 years before he makes his debut for the Pirates
By then they should be going through another rebuild
You might want to look up how baseball works. Only 1 person can play shortstop for a team in a game at a time.
That the Pirates is shifting natural shortstops around is not because “they don’t believe in allowing them to play their best position”, it’s that they’re using the player’s natural athletic ability to adapt to other positions of need. And there’s probably a better guy higher on the depth chart on who can handle the position.
There ae countless Major League infielders started their amateure career or pro career out at shortstop, and there’s a reason for that. Typically the best, most athletic infielders start as shortstops. Go back and look at MLB Pipeline’s top international prospects from the 2021-2022 off-season. Of the players who are infielders, there is one who isn’t listed as a primary shortstop, and that was Rosman Verdugo, who’s primary position as a professional has been shortstop. Pretty much every second baseman and third baseman can say they played shortstop when they were in high school, college, in their country if they didn’t go to school, and were given reps there for the first few years of their career.
Henry Davis is not a catcher
get over it
Does Severino have a better shot at play his natural position or becoming a catcher for the pirates?
How do you know that ss is his “natural position” in pro ball? I’m not going to repeat what multiple other people in the comments are saying about how org building and development work in these situations. What I’m going to add to that is that it is far from definite that this guy even ends up starting at any position in the high minors let alone the mlb level. This is a young, raw upside acquisition and the flame out rate for lottery ticket prospects is high in general. If everything goes right and this dude develops into a viable mlb ss in competition with other players for reps, which is as a general rule very improbable in this kind of situation, that so-called problem is literally several years away from being a concern.
Tell me you don’t understand org building without telling me. You trade for the best talent offered, not for depth chart compatibility.
Tell me you don’t understand my question without telling me.
I understand your question well. I hear what you say on a daily basis here in the Burgh and you are merely using the opportunity to bash the Pirates. FO.. I guess you would bash the Cardinals for doing the same thing. They have had a ton of OF for years. They continue to draft and acquire more OF,. They draft for talent and end up using the talent for trades. That model did not just happen overnight.. They build their system and keep it stocked regardless of positions. They either promote or trade them and keep restocking. If you want the Bucs to not continuously tear down and rebuild, you want them to keep acquiring young talent no matter the position and have talent on hand to promote or trade at all times. By the time this kid will be ready, Cruz and Hayes will be nearing FA. Cruz may very well want to hit the market no matter what and have no desire to extend. Pirates can’t force that. He will be traded at the 2027 deadline or the offseason of 2028 for a boat load of talent if he develops into the star we think he will be and you will need a quality replacement. Seems about the time Severino would be ready for the Show. See that how good teams do things. Hopefully the Bucs can keep things going for a wile.
When trading for a teenaged lottery pick prospect, especially one currently positioned at the top of the defensive spectrum overall positional “surplus” across the org isn’t really relevant.
@hatless, perfect breakdown for these armchair GMs, thank you.
Thx, I do what I can lol. Some of the knee-jerk , ill-informed takes I see on here are really something to behold.
If you were expecting a big return for Santana, you probably had your hopes to high. Granted, a .237 average is going to look like gold compared to most of our teams averages here in Milwaukee, but he wasn’t exactly tearing it up. Also, as the article states, he’s probably 3B bound. Plus he’s likely several years away from being MLB ready, so there’s no way you’re going to feel like he’s blocked by anybody unless that person has more than 4 years left before they’re traded.
Iffy on staying at ss. But has arm for 3b rf. Good return for Santana.
The common thought is he is going to end up at 3B probably.
Bednar next, and he should bring a nice return.
Bednar, Cutch and Keller aren’t going anywhere
Ditto. Was going to say the same thing.
Sure hope not. Pirates need more players like him, not some castoffs who can’t crack other teams lineups.
Trading off a rental piece doesn’t really sound the alarm that Bednar is anywhere near likely being moved. McCutchen it’ll likely all depend on what he tells them. If he wants to go to a contender, I’m sure he’ll let them know. But I also feel like he wants to end his career where it started. And possibly on a higher note.
Cutch has told the GM he doesn’t want traded and the owner agreed that he wouldn’t be
Who’s going to give this nice return?
Solid pickup for the Crew and cost nothing of significance
Cost them someone they thought was worth a million and change in 2022.
A very Mikwaukee move.
Cheap, but also pretty shrewd.
Santana provided excellent leadership in the Mariners clubhouse last year during the run to the playoffs. Great move by the Brew Crew.
He’s an upgrade for them, yeah, but he’s still a 1B whose offense has been almost (but not quite) exactly league average, so I can’t bring myself to call it “great,” but it’s definitely solid.
Brewers see league average as a goal..to fall short of.
Maybe since there’s only 2+ months, plus potential playoffs, they won’t have the time..or desire..to completely change his approach. But I wouldn’t put it past them to whisper in his ear before each at bat “forget everything and just swing as hard as possible. If it helps, close your eyes too.”
If they trade Bednar it is a sign that Cherington thinks that this “rebuild” can go on forever.
I was all for trading Santana and keeping Choi and bringing Andujar up but I would have thought that he could have received someone a little bit closer to the ML’s.
Someone like say a AA starting pitcher who was decent.
Cherington has a proclivity for middle infielders unless he thinks that this player can learn how to catch or pitch.
or even manage because heaven knows they need different leadership
I agree on Bednar, but nobody is giving up a decent Double-A starting pitcher for a 37 year old rental first baseman with league average hitting numbers.
Also the league average numbers are his best in several years. He was not going to bring much. I do remember the raw talented shortstop that everyone saw as a dump of Tony Watson. Who knows, this may be the next Cruz that well may replace the current Cruz as he nears FA. I think Cruz will bet on himself and choose to to extend and hit the Market prior to the 2029 off season.
Decent AA sp prospects tend to cost more than the Carlos Santanas of the world
Trading 1 reliever doesn’t mean anything. It’s a nothing move. Everyone should wish another team is dumb enough to give up real prospects for a closer.
so much for our collective hope that Andujar would take Santana’s place on the roster, Palacios is coming back up today
It’s almost like they want to lose
Sensible deal for both sides it appears. Brewers need 1b help bad. Fangraphs is doing a series called replacement level something or other I recommend reading it to learn about what teams need what.
Oye como va
And his Band too?
Nice move by the Brewers. Didn’t have to give up much as the Brewers are trying to replenish the farm while potentially winning one series in the postseason. Not a World Series threat but a team that can potentially reach the NLCS.
This is great a Mark Attanosio spending spree. Just in time for 5 county Friday.
That is So Smooth from the Brewers.Carlos is a good guy to have on your team.
Will Santana bring his plagiarized end of game win celebration from SEA -> PIT -> MIL as well? And will the Pirates continue to do it in his void?
And to think that people thought MIL had a logjam at 1B when they promoted Jon Singleton to split time with Rowdy Telez
Maria…Ma-ri-ah!
Lame salary dump. Typical pirates. There must have been no interest in him to deal him so fast.
Teams trying to transition from rebuilding to contention sign one year vet rentals like Santana every year. I have no doubt that both Santana and the Fo knew full well when they made the deal that a deadline trade was reasonably likely to happen depending on whether the pirates took a step forward this season. Even if the pirates were contenders this year its still plausible that Santana could have been dealt for a prospect or complementary mlb help for the stretch.
In order to dump salary, the pirates would need someone with a significant enough of a salary for it to be considered a dump. This is just typical baseball. An expiring contract from a non contending team being traded to a contender in return for some youth in the future.
For a salary dump you would have to send a better prospect with Santana than the one you received.
They don’t have to pay him, so they do save 2.42 million, which is significant to them. With 5 days left until the deadline, this reeked of desperation to get him off the books. I know they aren’t going to get much, but teams also know the Pirates aren’t ever going to say screw it, not enough. Milwaukee needs a 1B for now more than the Pirates need an 18 year old in rookie ball. The “window” they always talk about will be closed if he even makes it to MLB anyways.
Why not wait or try and get something else instead? Try and play poker. 2.42 million is chump change to just about every other MLB team. I don’t think the deal needed to be made today. When they traded Vogelbach last year, they got a reliever that would help right away (holderman) so that made sense doing it well before the deadline.
Vogey was a 900 ops hitter with 2 additional years of control. Santana is a 700 ops soon to be free agent. Most contenders already have a 1b. Not many bidders. You don’t want to be left without a chair when the music stops. Pirates did good.
I think the Mets were the only suitor for him last year if memory serves me correct. He’s a fat DH that played way over his head for 4 months.
The “music doesnt stop” for 5 days. If this deal got made Tuesday, I wouldn’t care as much. Milwaukee has the hole at 1B. The Pirates only could have gotten stuck holding the bag.
How many days before the deadline was Vogey traded?
Milwaukee would just move on to better bats if the Pirates asked more for Santana. There isn’t a 1b shortage. Go spin your false narrative to someone else.
The market isn’t going to drastically change for Santana over the span of five days. The only good first baseman who could get traded is Paul Goldschmidt, and that’s a big if. Comparing Daniel Vogelbach to Santana isn’t a one-for-one. The big thing is that Vogelbach had two extra years of control remaining. If the Mets want to, they can bring back Vogey for the 2024 season. 2 years vs 2 months is a big difference in value. Vogelbach is also significantly younger. He’s 30, Santana is 37.
You’re talking about two teams who wanted different things. The Mets were hoping to get a solid DH/1B option for the next two years who was both affordable, and still at a relatively young age. The Brewers are hoping to get a solid veteran 1B they can rely on for the rest of the 2023 season. They probably don’t see Santana as a guy they could slot in at first base semi-regularly to regularly for 2024 and 2025, in his age 38 and 39 seasons, like the Mets saw Vogey as someone they could slot in at DH in 2023 and 2024 in his age 30 and 31 seasons.
Within a week of the deadline is when most deadline deals get done. I don’t see 5 days from the deadline as having any significance of it being a salary dump at all. If it were all about salary, they’d of been contacting teams a month ago to take any deal they could for him to get him off the books. Yes, the Pirates are cheap. You won’t likely get any argument from anyone there. But that doesn’t mean that every single thing they do is a salary dump. They’re out of contention, it’s the biggest days of trades ahead, they made a deal to get something in return for a pending free agent. It’s what teams do when they’re out of contention.
Thanks Mr. Santana . It was fun watching you play 1st base better than anyone the bucs have had for many years . Good luck !! I’ll always be a fan
Love this trade by the Pirates.
Did not expect to get a player that talented for an average rental player. Severino signed for $1.3 million just last year. Tons of raw power, but at 18 is a lottery ticket with a lot of reward if he pans out.
The minor leaguer Pittsburgh got back in return made me think of Jhonny Peralta. Haven’t thought about him in ages!
I’ll hand it to the Brewers. At least they did something to actually help the club.
Saw Santana destroy Yu Darvish the other night when traveling on business to San Diego. Looked like he was in his twenties the way he was swinging. Darvish was looking over his shoulder so much his bobble head couldn’t even keep up.
Good+ return for Santana for sure and frees up a 40m I like watching him play.
If they call up Andujar they need to play him everyday. Even on off days he needs to be in the lineup…… .. . anyway. Yeah Everyday for a month straight. If he fails miserably with no signs of hope then git rid of him. If he does near average or better keep going though the season. If that isn’t something they want to do then call up Nunez after he gets a “few” Triple A games under his belt now that he is off the DL. If they’re not comfortable with that then call up Martin. I think Nunez is already on the 40m.
If they can get something for Choi and Joe i’d be thrilled. If all they can get is a MiLB role player for Hedges just keep him, maybe think about resigning hedges next year as a backup. I really like his defense.
Only Pirates fan that likes Hedges and wants him back.
Andujar did not get to play everyday last time so I don’t expect that will change if they recall him. Shelton never seems to stick to one lineup so guys sit and lose their edge..
Most managers platoon positions that do not have a star or good switch hitter manning the position. It is not unique to Shelton.
If Anduhar is called up, he needs to be told that it’s his last chance period. If they can get a team to pay for Hedges’ plane ride out of town they should take it. If not, DFA him, once he cleas waivers, release him. Bring him back as an interim coach if you like his leadership so much.
@Grumpofm
Its not so much his leadership it is his defense though it is a bonus. There is a reason he has played so much in his career while being sooo bad offensively. His defense is good enough to generally be a not negative impact over all. As a backup catcher it is a good fit.
@all If Andujar is not in the starting lineup everyday then they need not bother IMO go with someone else.
Here’s hoping he turns into another Cruz or develops somewhat. I appreciated Santana as a Pirates fan. One of the better first basemen they’ve had in a while, sadly. He got hot at the right time and while he wasn’t dominant, he was consistent and could field.
This might be the weirdest take, but I honestly would be open to them bringing back Choi for next season. He seems to rake vs righties and now that he’s healthy, showing quite a bit of power potential. They’d probably get him on a discount too. He wasn’t a great fit this year with DH filled and Santana at 1B.
If Cutch was healthy he would have played more outfield. Worked out well though. He should just dh next year to keep healthy.
Had the same thought about Cruz when I read the scouting report on him.
Why is it when some of these players do something like get a hit they look up to the sky and point? I’m referring to the picture of Santana.
They are pointing to the heavens and thanking God
Only buying this if Winkler gets DFA when his back twink ends!
More likely now, I’d say. Thank god.
Never argue with Yinzers who know everything about sports. Sensible Pirates fans should know better.
Santana is also one of the game’s top defensive first baseman;
I dont think I’ve ever heard that said about Santana before
The top. He was always good but took it to another level this year.
I remember him being presented an award for it in Philly.
Win win trade. Santana is a every day 1b. Best defensive 1b in baseball this year. Sure a few guys are as good or close but he has that position mastered. He hustles all the time from running into walls and nets to beating out ground balls. Can hit both rhp lhp. Pressure has zero effect on him. Milwaukee fans are going to love him.
Seems old dream was one of the only ones or the only one who liked this signing. In fact I loved it. You other guys said he was old and washed up, stunk, massive over pay. Lol. That’s why I am your dream gm. Not only did Milwaukee gladly take on his salary but they gave up a high upside international signing that cost them over a million bucks. Good return. They say it’s difficult or you can’t even teach someone to walk more but I hope they give it a try. Either way it’s some talent into the system.
Talent that this franchise’ poor player development could turn him into a mediocre one
For years I’ve heard and read that the minor league system had top tier prospects and when brought to the majors can’t hit their weight
You haven’t heard that for years, you made that up. As recent as 2019 the Pirates had one of the worst farm systems in baseball, now they have one of the best.
I’ll gladly take the scratch off lottery ticket in exchange for the last few months of Carlos Santana. He COULD be a fixture on the club in 3-5 years or he could wipe out in the same timeline. All it cost the Pirates was the money that they already paid Santana. Carlos will probably be enjoying his retirement in that time. The kid is 18 & was pd $1.23 million 2 yrs ago at 16. He’s the age of this yrs high school draft class.
Hope this is the only deal crew makes for a just above league average replacement. I know others will disagree, but we had this equivalent, or better, rotting on the farm. You know who…KH! Ask Jackson Chourio how international picks can turn out.
Let the rhythm take you!
Wrong artist, but nice move, Tellez hasn’t been good this year, and Santana isn’t too expensive as an upgrade.
Oye Como Va!
santana has reached base more than 2,800 times and has a career total of 1.5 WAR
that’s hard to do
whoops 1.5 is just for 2023
i honestly had no idea he’s been so productive for so long
He’s had a heck of a career. One of those players that people that follow baseball will talk about decades from now, but nobody else will know who he is and have to look him up lol.
Truly, in acquiring a player this young the real concern is hitting, not where he’s gonna play. If he can hit, they will find a position for him—even if they need to try him at every position except pitcher/catcher. So to hear that they think he has power potential and ball to bat skills, and he’s 18, that works for me!!
This is a good gamble for the Brewers. If they want to win in the postseason, they need offense.
Good pick up for Milwaukee. The Brewers stinks at 1b and DH production. Santana HAS to better.
He will rip off the National Anthem as a solo followed by Black Magic Woman in his first game.
I wonder if Santana would have had a HOF chance if he wasn’t a complete disaster as a catcher.
The worst part of this trade is all the lame and un-funny comments referring to the musician. Telling the same stupid jokes that have been made for over ten years.
The line is not as old as me! Still rocks!
Well, tell the Pirates to sign Alvin Lee and we’ll be telling the same jokes Ten Years After that, too!!
Good move by the Pirates. Severino looks to have an intriguing power/ speed combo. Real solid return for a guy like Santana.
This is a good piece of business all around by the Pirates. Picked Santana out of the discard pile, I certainly thought he was washed and finally done after a nice career, he instead performed nicely on the cheap and was dealt for someone who isn’t a non prospect. Good addition for Milwaukee as well but admire what Pittsburgh did here small as it is
Wow, after reading a lot of these comments, it’s like everybody just forgot about Josh Bell…
His 2019 season called, but man, that Carlos Santana..lol
Best season by a Pirates first baseman since 98-99 Kevin Young and going further back, 1982 Jason Thompson, but hot Damm, that Carlos Santana!