The Mets had a Major League record payroll of close to $357MM on Opening Day, as they followed up their 101-win season in 2022 with an incredibly aggressive offseason. However, just as the Mets broke new ground in building their roster, they have also been as aggressive in pivoting in the wake of a very disappointing four months.
With just a 50-55 record entering today’s action, the Mets have been one of the trade deadline’s busiest teams, unloading both major and minor names, rental players and some players controlled beyond the 2023 season. The long list of players departing Queens in the last six weeks includes Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, David Robertson, Tommy Pham, Mark Canha, Dominic Leone, and Eduardo Escobar, as the Mets have pursued a strategy of absorbing most of the salaries of those departed players in order to obtain more young talent in return.
As Scherzer told The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal, the Mets’ plan apparently extends to rebuilding not for the 2024 season, but for future seasons. Scherzer had to waive his no-trade protection in order to be dealt to the Rangers, and before making his decision, the ace first spoke with GM Billy Eppler and the Amazins’ longer-term plans.
According to Scherzer, “I was like, ’OK, are we reloading for 2024?’ [Eppler] goes, ’No, we’re not. Basically our vision now is for 2025-2026, ’25 at the earliest, more like ’26. We’re going to be making trades around that.’ I was like, ’So the team is not going to be pursuing free agents this offseason or assemble a team that can compete for a World Series next year?’ He said, ’No, we’re not going to be signing the upper-echelon guys. We’re going to be on the smaller deals within free agency. ‘24 is now looking to be more of a kind of transitory year.’ ”
A follow-up chat between Scherzer and Mets owner Steve Cohen took the same tack, which inspired Scherzer to waive his no-trade clause and approve the deal to the Rangers. “That’s basically what Steve said: ’I never thought in a million years we’d be in this situation, being at the deadline and we’re actually selling. But the math is the math. And the math says this organization needs to retool.’ That was Steve saying that. I said, ’I get it. I’m not here to say you’re wrong.’ It is what it is. I understand from Steve’s perspective that’s the direction he wants to take the team based on where everyone is at within their contracts, arbitration, free agency. That was the new vision for the Mets.”
However, Scherzer also noted that “if they had said, ‘We’re going to hold on to all the ‘24 pieces,’ that would have been a different story.”
“But they were saying no, we’re going to be moving players that are under contract for 2024 before the deadline. We walked through some players I had in mind who would be that. It turned out it was much more extensive than that. The players we ended up talking about who are free agents after ‘24, they were more substantial names. Any player who was a free agent after 2024 at the right price could be moved right now at the deadline. That’s a completely different vision from what everybody had in the clubhouse. All the players had a vision of, we reload for 2024. That was no longer the case.”
Scherzer (who had an opt-out clause), Canha ($11.5MM club option for 2024), and Verlander were the only players controlled beyond 2023 who ended up being moved, as the likes of Jose Quintana and other club-option players like Brooks Raley, Omar Narvaez, and Adam Ottavino are all still with New York. Still, obviously moving two cornerstone aces like Scherzer and Verlander marked a severe change in direction for the Mets’ plans, as trading either pitcher in a deadline deal would’ve seem far-fetched given the hefty investment made in both future Hall-of-Famers over the last two winters. Verlander was signed to a two-year, $86.67MM with a conditional player option for 2025, while Scherzer came to Queens in the 2021-22 offseason on a three-year, $130MM pact.
In the wake of Scherzer’s trade, Eppler stated to reporters that “I do want to be clear that it’s not a rebuild. It’s not a fire sale. It’s not a liquidation. This is just a repurposing of Steve’s investment in the club, and kind of shifting that investment from the team into the organization.” Talking with media (including SNY’s John Flanigan) today, Eppler didn’t comment on Scherzer’s statements to Rosenthal, but expanded on his previous statement and reiterated that the Mets weren’t going to tank.
“One of the goals here is to expedite the longer-term goal. We’re trying to restock and reload the farm system,” Eppler said. “You have to go through a little pain to get where we want to go, but I feel like the organization is making strides towards a better future…..Going into 2024 we don’t see ourselves having the same odds that we did in 2022 and 2023, but we will field a competitive team.”
Cohen made similar remarks in a text to Jon Heyman of the New York Post, saying “We will be competitive in ’24 but I think 25-26 is when our young talent makes an impact. Lots of pitching in free agency in ’24. More payroll flexibility in ’25. Got a lot of dead money in ’24.”
Since buying the Mets in November 2020, Cohen has been quite open about his bigger-picture dream for the club — citing the Dodgers as the model, Cohen wanted to field a consistent contender with the resources to acquire premium free agents or trade targets, but largely fueled by star talent developed by the Mets’ own farm system. Cohen didn’t want to wait for that prospect base to be fully built before the Mets started winning, however, and said that he would spend heavily to make the team a contender in the interim.
As it has turned out, this initial plan might just result in one winning season in Cohen’s first three years running the club. The Mets were 77-85 in 2021, are on pace for a losing record this year, and even the 101-win performance last year was muted when the Padres ousted them in the wild card series. Rather than splurge again to restock a flawed roster for 2024, it makes sense that Cohen and Eppler might view taking a step back in order to hopefully two steps forward in 2025 or 2026, rather than continue to tread water in a competitive NL East. The Braves look like surefire contenders for years to come, the Phillies won the NL pennant last year, and the Marlins have also gotten themselves back into the playoff race.
The new direction opens a wealth of new possibilities for the Mets this coming offseason. It can be assumed that highly-touted youngsters Francisco Alvarez and Brett Baty aren’t going anywhere, if New York wants to expand its young core. Players recently signed to longer-term contracts or extensions (i.e. Francisco Lindor, Kodai Senga, Jeff McNeil, Brandon Nimmo, Edwin Diaz) aren’t likely to be moved either, since this group will all still be around during the Mets’ new timeline for contention.
Beyond that core, it’s fair to wonder if any other Mets player might be on the trade market this winter. That includes Jose Quintana (signed through 2024) and Starling Marte (signed through 2025), as while neither has amassed much of a track record in 2023, the Mets have shown that they’re more than willing to eat money to accommodate trades. The biggest question mark might hang over Pete Alonso, as the slugger has one final arbitration-eligible year remaining before he enters free agency following the 2024 campaign.
Roster Resource projects that New York has roughly $204.2MM on the books for 2024 already, but a step back from contention might also logically mean a desire for the team to reset its luxury tax status. The Mets obviously blew past the highest tax levels in both 2022 and 2023, but getting out of tax territory entirely ($237MM is the lowest threshold level in 2024) would both reduce the team’s financial penalty, and more importantly the asset-related penalties attached with tax overages. For instance, the Mets would be able to sign qualifying-offer free agents for a lesser cost of draft picks, while also netting a higher draft return for any of their own free agents who reject a QO and sign elsewhere. In other punishment for incurring such a high tax bill in 2022, the Mets also had their first pick in the 2023 draft pushed back by ten slots, and their international signing pool was reduced.
If the Amazins aren’t planning to be big spenders this winter, that naturally has a big impact on this offseason’s free agent class, given how Cohen’s largesse has driven the market over the last two years. Given the relatively thin nature of the 2023-24 class, the Mets front office might be planning to capitalize by using some of their roster as trade chips, as rival clubs might not find what they’re looking for in free agency. As Cohen noted, there are plenty of interesting pitchers available following the 2024 season if the Mets do intend only a one-year step back, such as Scherzer again, Max Fried, Zack Wheeler, Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff, and many others.
Speaking Burnes and Woodruff, it would remiss if we didn’t mention the persistent rumors that the Mets will pursue David Stearns as the next president of baseball operations, as Cohen said last month that he is still looking to install a new executive above Eppler on the decision-making pyramid. Stearns’ contract with the Brewers is up after the season, and if the speculation is true and he does head to New York for his next job, it might make sense if Stearns eventually pursues some of his old Milwaukee players. That said, whether Stearns or someone else is the new president, it would make sense that the Mets gives the new hire at least a year to fully assess the organization, before turning back towards contending in 2025 or 2026.
Milwaukee-2208
In other words “we are not only punting on 2023, we are also punting on 2024 before the season begins, so bare with us”
getrealgone2
Technical difficulties.
nukeg
The downstream effects of Cohens / Epplers mismanagement are huge.
They just handed the Rangers and the Astros two gift baskets – including Justin Verlander at a 50% discount (Astros paying $40M for 2.3 seasons).
These clowns need to get the eff out of baseball. This season should go down as one of the worst ever managed 4 months in MLB history.
HEFFERNAN
It was a MASTERCLASS on short selling assets and investing in the teams future. Cohen used his money smartly !!!! Epp and Uncle Steve correctly admitted they would not be favorites next year, THAT DOESN’T MEAN THEY WERE NOT GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE.
The only clowns are the people who can’t see that.
padam
Fail fast. In the end, it could be the wisest of decisions. If the two kids they acquired turn out to be stars, all it did was cost the team cash, which they have plenty of.
4Quarters
What’s that rotation, led by Senga, looking like next season?
Andy Dufresne
lmao, shhhhh, adults are speaking
MrMet1979 2
I don’t know if you know Billy Eppier’s track record but he’s never been a masterclass at anything.Just ask the Anaheim Angels.They’re paying 70 mil for two guys to pitch somewhere else. That’s the definition of bad business. Mets fans could care less about mediocre prospects after going 38 years without a championship. And yes they’re not going to be competitive in 2024 considering they have 4 slots in the rotation to fill now. Don’t be one of those naive Met fans that thinks every move this team makes is a smart one. The Astros and other GMs are laughing as us right now
MrMet1979 2
Yeah but it’s the Mets so most likely those two prospects will suck. They’re a dysfunctional franchise. Houston also has a very weak farm system. You don’t pay Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer to pitch for other teams.That’s beyond stupid.
JoeBrady
HEFFERNAN
It was a MASTERCLASS on short selling assets and investing in the teams future.
==========================
Maybe that’s the difference between the Mets and Yankees. Most Yankee fans are incensed with their .514 record and not acquiring anyone. The NYMs, with the biggest payroll in history, are giddy with excitement over having tanking 2023 & 2024.
JoeBrady
That’s my view. They obviously overpaid for both, as well as everyone else they signed. But just like with SD, what’s the point of quitting at this point?
For all the talk about ‘it’s only money’, okay, why not just keep both overpriced pitchers for next year and try to compete?
iverbure
Mrmet how do you know Eppler signed those deals? If the owner tells you go get Verlander and you say he’s old coming off an injury I only want to sign him for 1 year but he wants two? Who wins the owner. I’m not saying he’s a good gm but the worst contracts like mad maxs and verlanders probably won’t his doing. Similar to the josh Hamilton deal with the angels that was the owner.
MrMet1979 2
I actually thought signing Starling Marte for 4 years was the worst deal. That guy gets hurt walking out of his house. This team was poorly constructed from the beginning. Too many players on the downside of their careers
MrMet1979 2
I can’t agree with you more. There is a losers mentality that is embedded within a lot of die hard Met fans. Yesterday they traded away 6 CY Young awards for mediocre prospects in addition to paying the majority of the contracts for their new teams while telling their fanbase they’re going to suck for the next two years and you have Met fans on here insisting that the organization took a huge step forward smh.
flamingbagofpoop
The organization probably did take a step forward. Trading JV and MS wasn’t really the problem, signing them (and most of their other FAs) to the contracts they signed them too, is the problem. They tried to buy a competitive team, it didn’t work. Throwing more money at it isn’t smart.
MrMet1979 2
They didn’t have to throw more money at the problem. But if you make the decision to bring in Scherzer and Verlander at least see it through until 2024 when Diaz comes back healthy. If it doesn’t work that’s fine but at least they tried. You don’t forfeit a chance at contention for next season for mediocre prospects. And you definitely don’t pay two CY Young winners to pitch for other teams. That’s not smart either. If you want prospects and a good farm system you draft for it.
HEFFERNAN
I’ll take Cohen’s view on money over yours !! The way the deals were set up, the Mets can wiggle out of tax hell a lot faster..
It was obvious we weren’t winning anything this year. This winter, there’s a huge FA pitching class.so losing two 40 year olds is not the end of the world.
If you don’t agree adding talent to a farm system is better than not doing it, you should pick a different sport to watch.
HEFFERNAN
We didn’t tank this year, it was a losing season so we sold our trade chips and retooling for next year. The Mets will be in on everyone this winter. Epp’s 2024 comments are correct, we will not be favorites in 2024, but we will be competitive. They are not tanking.
RunDMC
Senga, Quintana — there’s quite a few decent FA options that won’t get record money (Ohtani notwithstanding).
Julio Urias
Eduardo Rodriguez (opt out)
Marcus Stroman (opt out) — former Met
Aaron Nola
Sonny Gray — aversion to pitching in NY?
Lucas Giolito
Jordan Montgomery
Michael Lorenzen
MrMet1979 2
Quintana has been washed up for 5 years. All of those options are mid level rotation guys that are going to want big money to pitch here. That’s not going to help us against the Braves. Verlander and Scherzer are better than every pitcher on that list. Even in the latter stage of their careers.
RunDMC
Everyone of these guys have better 2023 numbers than Scherzer. Considering Scherzer’s missed considerable postseason time (esp with LAD the season they traded for him at the Deadline), there’s reason for pause. You can get a few more years out of most of those guys for the same amount you were paying for 1-2 years (with options) of 40-year old legends in the twilight of their careers. While I don’t think Urias will be worth his taken, many of those others could be have much more value. You need quality innings eaters so you’re not so reliant on a bullpen that needs many pieces, again.
While Quintana is not a front of rotation option, he typically will eat innings and put up decent numbers, giving you a shot for the offense to come through — but will they?
MrMet1979 2
You can’t name one pitcher on that FA list that’s a better option than Verlander or Scherzer. If you want to add talent to a farm system there’s something called the draft and international pool that’s available to everyone. I’m quite sure they didn’t have to pay another team for that. Would you pay one of your employees to go work somewhere else? I think the majority of Mets fans want to win a championship and can care less about mediocre prospects. By the time these guys are ready Lindor,Nimmo and Alonso will be in decline. The money was already spent at least see it through till next year with a healthy Edwin Diaz.Keep being a homer and believing everything this organization tells you.
MrMet1979 2
The only pitcher I trust on that list is Stroman because we know he can pitch here. Most of those guys are mid and are going to want 25-30 mil per season Look at Quintana’s last 5 years and then tell me how good he’s been. He’s sucked ever since he left the White Sox. He’s finished. Verlander and Scherzer weren’t the problem. We didn’t get anything from the 4-5 starters all season. Lorenzen would be a guy to take a serious look at.
kidfavre4
I believe he was coming off a Cy Young, not an injury.
Astros Hot Takes
Mets are on the tax hook for all the cash they sent to Astros & Rangers – so, NO tax advantage this year, but pretty good for ’24 & ’25,
EXCEPT
If they go sign a bunch of FAs this offseason, they’re right back where they were, or worse.
drasco036
Your views are seriously flawed.
First, the Mets thought Verlander and Scherzer were worth 43.3 million per season when they signed them, keep that in mind.
The Mets are half both their contracts, so they are paying 50 million to watch them play for other teams.
So basically, the financial cost of each of those prospects is 50 million per. If you’re paying 100 million for prospects, you better get more than 3 okay prospects.
If Verlander and/or Scherzer were worth their contracts, they could have moved the contracts and gotten quality prospects in return so having to pay any money is a huge fail. They financially failed and they failed on the field, being a losing team. They were forced to make trades from the weakest of negotiating spots. This is bev Dutton season 1 first episode coming in chopping the Mets off at the knees, being forced to make a ridiculous trade while everyone points and laughs at the most expensive team ever
MrMet1979 2
The Mets weren’t challenging the Braves anytime soon so I didn’t see any reason to give up on 2024 with Diaz coming back healthy. Scherzer is 9-4 with a 4ERA and a WAR of 2.0. Those seven pitchers you mentioned actually don’t have better stats than him. More importantly Houston’s farm system is weak so you really don’t know if the prospects are legit because unless you’re the Atlanta Braves prospects are usually a hit or miss. Also fun fact Billy Eppier is bad at his job and has already failed in Anaheim.
RunDMC
Rebuild 101: Bad teams don’t need good/expensive closers (i.e. Diaz). NYM can justify him as a marketing asset and they’re not going full rebuild. Why put all that money into one person when they need to overhaul the BP again — and now the rotation? And if they don’t get good enough SP, they won’t need a decent bullpen/closer.
Scherzer: 2.0 bWAR, 4.01 ERA
Montgomery: 2.2 bWAR, 3.42 ERA
Lorenzen: 2.0 bWAR, 3.58 ERA
Stroman 1.9 bWAR, 3.85 ERA
Nola: 1.3 bWAR, 4.43 ERA — *you’re right on him*
Rodriguez: 2.4 bWAR, 2.95 ERA
Gray: 3.0 bWAR, 3.22 ERA
Giolito: 2.6 bWAR, 3.85 ERA
I was wrong about Nola, as I have forgotten he hasn’t righted the ship this year, but everyone else beats Scherzer’s ERA all but Stroman & Lorenzen (tie) beat his bWAR. Not sure what you’re arguing here.
MrMet1979 2
Well Gray shouldn’t even be on the list since he’s already said that he would never pitch in NY again. Rodriguez has been terrible since he’s came back from injury. He recently got lit up by the A’s. Giolito is inconsistent AF and not worth what he’s going to command in the open market. Stroman can pitch here but he’s a prominent jerk and wasn’t liked in the clubhouse and the media. His personality wouldn’t go well with Buck Showalter who’s also a jerk. So the only realistic options would be Montgomery and Lorenzen. Meh.
JoeBrady
Good for 24 & 25, only to the extent that HOU and TX pick up the salary. The NYMs are on the tax hook for the salaries they chose to keep.
Astros Hot Takes
correct Joe, but on the assumption that they’re still in the 90% (or 105%!!!!!!!) brackets, then the tax savings for those two years, for Verlander alone, might be north of 36 million, right? btw, I have always appreciated your rational accountancy mind around her
JoeBrady
but everyone else beats Scherzer’s ERA
========================
It depends on your expectations. Scherzer’s had a huge stretch of great seasons. If he continues his 4.01, then he might not even be worth his paid down salary. If he reverts to his 2022 season, then he is worth twice that.
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
You complain more than a room full of ex wives and mothers-in-law.
Perhaps if you took a more realistic approach to your fandom, the success and failures of the Mets wouldn’t cause such over the top reactions.
The “loser’s mentality” only exists in the minds of irrational fans. The rest of us see baseball as a game played by competing franchises, where success wavers between 3 – 10% a year. If you can’t handle the fact that the Mets, and every other franchise, fail 90% of their existence, then perhaps find a sport with better odds for success.
JoeBrady
I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.
But the tax savings issue, while completely understandable from a business perspective, runs afoul of the Mets’ fan philosophy of ‘money doesn’t count’. Ideally, if he can save $8M this year, then he saves $8M in tax. Good. But then he has to find the equivalent SPs for the same price, or else he has no savings.
And it could be done. But, and I don’t hate the NYMs as much as I find them entertaining, my instinct tells me that they will repeat the same mistakes in order to make for those mistakes. Much like the NYY & SDP.
flamingbagofpoop
It seems like you have a very warped view of how good JV and MS actually are.
flamingbagofpoop
If they were worth their contract, they’d be able to move them for no return and eat no money. If they were worth more than their contract, they could get a return without throwing in money.
websoulsurfer
The Mets season was already over. Too top heavy with non performing players like Scherzer.
Offseason is coming up with at least 4 top of the rotation type starters led by Ohtani. Cohen has lots of cash he can spend now and has greatly increased his prospect capital for trades. He could add Nola or Snell plus another TOR starter in trade and still spend less than Scherzer would have cost.
Mets will get younger and better while still spending less money than they would have in 2024. That has been Cohen’s plan all along. What he has is money. What he didn’t have when he bought the team was anything in that farm system. Now he has both. It’s an enviable position to be in.
MrMet1979 2
You can miss me with all of the disrespectful comments. This is the internet keep your insults for a guy on the street. I’ve been to about 150-200 Met games over the years and I can definitely say that most of our fanbase consists of mindless homers that will essentially rationalize or support every move this team makes whether its good or bad. And if someone objects they’ll immediately resort to an insult or say something corny like go root for another team. You have your opinion on the situation and I have mine. It’s ok to disagree. At the end of the day we both want the best for our squad. But I’m deeply sorry that you’re so comfortable with losing
MrMet1979 2
Well they’re weren’t pitching like aces anymore but still very productive pitchers. You can’t deny that as much as you want to. The problem was the Mets not getting anything from the 4-5 starters combined with Diaz getting hurt, Marte taking a step back untimely injuries etc. I don’t put much stock in prospects. That’s what the draft and international pool is for. It’s a crap shoot. I guess that’s the risk you take when you sign numerous players on the downside of their careers. It’s just not a good look to pay big money for a guy to pay somewhere else.
flamingbagofpoop
No, it’s certainly not a good look. I’m not a mets fan, but if it were a team I was rooting for, I’d rather have them realize their mistake and just swallow the pill.
Diaz isn’t going to make the Mets a contender, they need so much to go right for them and/or spend a ton more money on FA upgrades to be a legitimate team. It’s an old, flawed roster, they were going to need to shake this up at some point. Personally I think it’s better to do it sooner rather than later and get what you can now. Another year and they may regress more.
websoulsurfer
Arte Moreno and his refusal to allow the GM to do his job is what happened in Anaheim.
When you constantly override your GM to invest in aging position players like Pujols, Upton and Rendon but will not allow any investment in pitchers beyond a 3 year deal you cannot expect to win. The Angels didn’t win, but they did put butts in the seats which was Moreno’s goal.
Eppler has carried out a plan in Flushing to spend heavily early to rebuild the baseball operations infrastructure and personnel, the fan base, and the stock of good prospects in the farm system. He has succeeded.
And don’t forget the Mets won 101 games last season. It’s not Eppler’s fault Max got caught cheating AND has stunk this season and a large number of veterans (McNeil, Canha, Vogelbach, Escobar, Marte) massively underperformed this season after playing so well last season.
He got rid of many of those underperforming players and now can rebuild with great young players in the system and strategic FA signings and trade acquisitions.
Then he has this offseason to address the rotation among one of the largest groups of quality starters we have seen in years.
websoulsurfer
Who exactly did the Mets trade away that gives any indication that they are tanking in 2024?
That is still a really good team that is missing 2 pitchers and not much else that is not easily replaceable in FA, trade, or from within.
Please don’t tell me you believe anything that Scherzer has said.
raisinsss
What’s the value of expressing really bad and uninformed opinions very strongly?
Asking for a friend.
websoulsurfer
Who are you talking to? Certainly not me because my comments are informed and correct.
websoulsurfer
Scherzer talking out of school about a private conversation says all we need to know about how much of a cancer he was in the organization. Add a cheating suspension, lying about cheating, and just plain mediocre pitching and he needed to go. Cohen was willing to pay to excise that tumor from the Mets and got a top 50 prospect in return.
websoulsurfer
Quintana – 2.99 ERA over 35 starts in 2022-2023. Sounds totally washed up to me.
Urias has a top 10 ERA in MLB over the past 3 seasons.
Snell has the 24th best ERA over the past 3 seasons and is #1 this season
There are 30 teams. That means BOTH of those are a #1 starter on most teams.
You really have no clue about baseball, do you?
websoulsurfer
You missed Snell who will also be a FA. He is the best starter in baseball this season.
websoulsurfer
With the crackdown on sticky stuff, do you really think cheating Max will ever be that good again?
websoulsurfer
Its LESS of a crapshoot to add a top 50 prospect in AA through trade than to pick up a 16 year old in the international draft or a player with no professional experience in the draft. You do realize that fact, right?
raisinsss
Sorry @ web.
It was mrmet. I realize his awareness of players is about 3-5 years in the past. That’s the only way anything makes sense.
KennyF’nPowers
I’m surprised with all the guru’s on here someone didn’t mention Yoshinobu Yamamoto. The best FA pitcher available. Eppler has been to Japan to scout him along with other Mets scouts. 25 years old and is said to be better than Darvish and Senga and could get a 200 M deal. Cohen will probably pass on Ohtani sweepstakes even though he’s great and outbid everyone for Yamamoto. There is also a very good Korean OF Jung Hoo Lee (who I also believe Cohen may go after) in 2024 FA. The Mets have to sign 2 starters as Senga and Quintana are the only 2 in the rotation. Cookie and his 6+ ERA is gone and maybe Peterson gets the 5th slot. Megill has an arm but doesn’t know how to pitch. No one in the Minors is ready for the 24 rotation. Mets have to be active as they have holes to fill it just won’t be Ohtani.
Ma4170
Definitely… I’ve mentioned Yamamoto a lot, and I’ve seen a few others too. I wasn’t aware of Lee.
websoulsurfer
$7.6 million this year and $36 million next year including their savings on CBT taxes.
websoulsurfer
It has nothing to do with expectations and everything to do with performance. Add Snell to that list and even Wacha and Lugo. They all have been better than Scherzer this season.
Buckner
“So, Max, if we *say* we are NOT re-loading for 2024, you WILL waive your no-trade provision, right?
Here is your boarding pass LGA to Dallas. Take your bloated ERA and all your home runs allowed with you. Bye!”
i like al conin
Looks like there will now be one less big market suitor for Ohtani.
thecoffinnail
Ohtani will stay on the West Coast. The Dodgers can match any East Coast offer he gets. The Yankees could be the one East Coast team (still doubt it) that could theoretically sign him but Cashman made sure to handcuff them with 2 huge contracts last off-season. Signing Rodon put an end to the Ohtani pursuit before it even began. The Yankees have half the luxury tax tied up in 4 players. 3 of them spend more time on the IL than active. Hal has shown repeatedly that giving a few million to the less fortunate teams at the end of year scares him. Expect to see the Yankees dumpster diving until they can shake a couple of their expensive contracts which Cashman said he would avoid after his half billion giveaway in 2014 failed. Everyone knew Cohen’s shopping spree would fail. It always does when a new executive comes in and tries to buy a championship. Remember the Padres in Prellers first year at the helm? The Dodgers when they got out from under McCourt and took on all of that salary from Boston just to get AGon? At least Cohen is selling at the deadline.
Paleobros
The Yankees eternally disadvantage themselves by ruling out players by their outdated corporate clean-cut hair policy. It sounds like a hot take to say it’s a loser policy, but it is living in a past that just doesn’t exist anymore to say the least.
dave frost nhlpa
The Yankees are hoping their AAA talent pushes thru. It could. Their AAA pitching is phenomenal.Position players,not so much.
They need to be smarter with their contracts for position players.
Paleobros
LFGMets nice call you nailed it
OnlineFeatures
Just has nothing to do with this conversation but thanks for your opinion on something completely irrelevant to the topic
Samuel
thecoffinnail;
Believe Ohtani will stay with the Angels.
1. Even the Mets FO believes he loves his situation in SoCal and that signing him is not a matter of money.
2. Everyone says the Dodgers. OK. But understand that Dodger Stadium is not really “Up The Freeway”. Even at 2am in the middle of the week LA’s main freeways are bumper to bumper. It’s a terribly overcrowded area. The trip in miles is irrelevant – going from his house in Newport Beach to Dodger Stadium will be a 1-1/2 to 2 hour trip….each way. Obviously he can buy a place in LA County, but that’s going to change his lifestyle and the people he interacts with 6 months of the year during the season – and many friends and family have moved from Japan up to Orange Country.
3. It’s not a matter of money as kids here think. The man is the most popular professional athlete in the world – any sport. His endorsements in the US, Japan, and other countries are bring him in who knows how much revenue. Doubt he’ll change his lifestyle for another 10 or 20% in money that in his lifetime he won’t come close to spending. There’s only 24 hours in a day.
ElysianPark
First, there is not constant bumper to bumper traffic at 2 a.m., even on weekdays. That is a wild exaggeration.
Yes, there is overcrowding but it isn’t like you paint a picture.
Two, what makes you think he wouldn’t move to another area where he can have a nice house? There are tons of those all over Southern California. He will go where he feels a team has a long, sustainable plan and structure to win.
Samuel
“First, there is not constant bumper to bumper traffic at 2 a.m., even on weekdays. That is a wild exaggeration.”
ElysianPark;
1. Excuse me, I lived there for 24 years and traveled that freeway.
2. You didn’t grasp what I said, I’ll try again but doubt you have any reading comprehension……
Mr. Ohtani is a grown man with a girlfriend relatives and friends that moved to the area and that he’s made in the Newport Beach area. That’s how human beings live. He’s not a figure on a computer baseball screen, or an entry on a Rotisserie League application.
We moved around LA county and between work and the horrendous traffic when we had free time we lost contact with a lot of people because we were no longer in proximity. That’s a way of life in Southern California.
If Mr. Ohtani signs with the Dodgers he’ll have to move to the LA area for the baseball season, because commuting daily from Newport Beach is untenable (Kobe Bryant was killed in a helicopter crash around Calabasas simply going to his daughters softball game because the traffic is so bad). If he does that he’s going to lose contact with the people – and family – he sees in Newport Beach 6-7 months of the year when the season is on.
3. From everyone that seems to know Mr. Ohtani he seems to be a class individual that puts a high priority on both his personal relationships and privacy. He’s happy where he is. Yes, the media says he’ll leave to play on a contender. What does the media know? They start narratives and keep floating them until they believe them along with the public.
4. Mr. Ohtani could well go to the Dodgers. But let’s understand something about that – the Dodgers have been in WS’ as recently as 2017, 18 and 20 (winning in 2020). They have been a “contender” in a weak NL West. The fact is (like the Cardinals) their fans are living in the past. The vaulted Dodgers farm system has been great about developing Catchers. But with all the pub about developing pitchers, the fact is that like the Rays (where Friedman came from) they burn out their pitchers. For all the young pitchers that had in the pipeline the past 5 years, few have had more than 2 good years in a row. They had to acquire 87 year-old Lance Lynn at the deadline and thought they had Eduardo Rodriguez but he elected to stay back east. I thought the Dodgers were swimming in quality pitching?!?!?.
5. The reality is that there is far more parity in MLB than people think – as players, especially pitchers, are being burned out. The sustainable contenders today are the Astros and Braves, with the Orioles about to move into that category. If the Angels owner will spend money like the Dodgers do in the next 5 years, Mr. Ohtani is just as well staying where he is (and the Angles have created a pipeline of young pitchers that will be moving up to the high minors beginning next year….who knows how that will turn out).
deepseamonster32
Ohtani is going to San Francisco. Giants need an attraction for any A’s fans that are gettable. I know many won’t be switching sides, but some will and Ohtani in black and orange should be just the ticket. This is a most unique opportunity for the Giants.
If Ohtani was so committed to the neighborhood blah blah blah, he’d still be playing in Japan.
mlbdodgerfan2015
So, many family and friends moved from Japan to Orange County, and you don’t think that they could commute or move to LA County, which is one hour drive north? Please tell me what the flaw is in this thought process.
Bottom line is if he’s a competitor, which most elite baseball players are, he’ll want to go to a team that will put him in a good position to win a WS. Is that the Angels? I don’t think so.
Not saying that the Dodgers will get him, but if they really want him they likely have the best shot at him. I’m not all that sure that the Dodgers want him for market price. We’ll see how it goes down.
BRICKHARDMEAT220
Ohtani is getting big big money which means that only teams with big money will be in on him so all 4 California teams( A’s don’t count) both New Yorkers, Boston, and cubs/Phillies. All the other teams are afraid to swim in the deep end. I don’t think ohtani leaves the west coast ( because it’s closer to China). So now we’re down to 4 teams.
Angels- ohtani knows and likes the team. The team will spend big think pujols trout and rendon. Draws well in attendance. Team has been better this year might snag a wild card. Cons-the team has been cheeks all ohtani career
Padres- big money spenders in recent years very little success to show for it,tho. The appeal of being with fellow country men han song Kim and yu darvish might play a factor. Cons- Fernando Tatis could let him borrow some ring worm remover and ruin ohtani rep
Dodgers- are big money ballers and the definition of success ( talk all the trash about only 1 ws title). Thriving Vietnamese community. Big ball park. Plus I hear ohtani has a crush on freedie freeman. Cons- very far from Hong Kong.
San Francisco- Barry bonds>ohtani
Conclusion-ohtani follows his idol Trevor Bauer back to the KBO
Your welcome
websoulsurfer
Ohtani is from Japan.
Biggest Japanese communities in the US where there are MLB teams are in the Bay Area, Seattle, and New York city.
websoulsurfer
Why? Did Cohen say he was out of the running? Did Eppler say they were not going to pursue him? You think they would tell Scherzer? Give me a break.
LordD99
It’s also possible he wanted Scherzer to believe that so he’d agree to the deal, but Cohen fully intends to go all in on some free agents for 2024.
braves25
@LordD99
Except Lindor said he was also told them same thing. I think Verlander was even told the same. So it wasn’t just about Scherzer.
If Cohen is fully intending on going all in for 2024, why trade Verlander too? Not just trade him, but also pay a significant amount of money for him to play for the Astros?
Teamspirit
Verlander wanted to go.
websoulsurfer
Can’t find anything where Lindor said that. Do you have a link?
Cohen saved money even after paying big chunks to get rid of them.
websoulsurfer
Since you didn’t answer, I will assume you were talking out your behind and Lindor never said anything close to that.
yetipro
I love it! New Mets same as the old Mets! The Nationals finally have some hope
WiffleBall
Finally? Didn’t the Nats just win the WS a few years ago?
Fever Pitch Guy
Milwaukee – I’m modest, so I’m not baring anything with any MLB team.
drasco036
Where are all the people who disagreed with me when I said, “the Mets are spending a lot of money to get worse”?
Ma4170
Some interesting takes both ways here. I look at it as they cleared $45M from next year’s luxury tax payroll, and traded two declining SP for two top 100 prospects. And i haven’t heard or read any expert refer to acuna as just some “okay” prospect, instead hes been moving up rankings. Gilbert idk as well, but even clifford seems to have some limited upside.
If they traded them away and didn’t pay any salary, they wouldn’t have received value back. And paying them $86m to be mediocre next year would be worse.
MrMet1979 2
Yeah it’s much better to pay 70 mil for them to pitch for other teams. Verlander was far from mediocre this season. Clearly they were pitching well enough to have multiple suitors. I think they waived the white flag too early. At least wait for 2024 when Diaz comes back. If they wanted prospects it’s Eppier’s job to draft properly and use the international bonus pool money that’s available to all GMs.I know a lot of die hard Met fans that are in their 70s and 80s that won’t be around for this rebuild. They deserve much better.
Ma4170
Yeah, I’m in my 50s so I’ve lived through the pain, but Verlander was terrible but has been on a recent run. His peripherals suck to be honest. To think he and Max could come back next year and command much value I think is wishful thinking, but we’ll see, I could be wrong. Sell high if you can, even though they clearly weren’t selling high if they had to pay as much of the salary as they did. I’ll be optimistic and think that the prospects will either become productive players, or free up to trade prospects to bring back players in trades at some point.
drasco036
Mets fans are great, “they traded two declining pitchers”.. they signed two pitchers to the largest aavs ever given out, one of those pitchers was THIS SEASON!
Talk about trying to put lip stick on a pig…
flamingbagofpoop
Both of those things can be true.
websoulsurfer
“I do want to be clear that it’s not a rebuild,” Eppler said. “It’s not a fire sale. It’s not a liquidation. This is just a repurposing of [owner] Steve [Cohen’s] investment in the club.”
So you are willing to believe whiny Max instead of the GM of the club? Interesting.
MrMet1979 2
Yes I do because Eppier has a track record of being a bad GM. He failed in Anaheim. They’re forfeiting the next two seasons so that kind of a rebuild. But I also understand that guys like Mauricio and Vientos need reps too. I don’t know who’s going to pitch for them next year
websoulsurfer
No, he doesn’t. 101 wins last season because of Eppler.
They are NOT forfeiting the next two seasons. Cohen has money to spend, a good ballclub that is now free from the slackers, a need for two starters in an offseason with one of the largest groups of FA TOR starting pitchers in recent years, and a great farm system to make trades from. The Met are in a great position today to compete in 2024 and beyond.
I am NOT a Mets fan and I can see that. Why can’t you.
Wait. I know. You have a history of making inane comments not backed by any data or even based in reality though, so I can understand how you might have that delusion.
raisinsss
Yes, I see you’ve come to the same conclusion on Mrmet.
Kenmajor
I’m my opinion, they did a smart thing trading away their old hall of fame pitchers. They basically received prospects and trade assets in exchange for money. If money is really no issue for the owner then they set themselves up for a better future. They can always get more free agents pitchers and this time they won’t be 40 years old.
They chose wisely when they let Degrom walk and now the rangers are stuck with his contract. The Mets turned their free agent signings into other teams prospects. Sure, they preferred winning but they recognized that their window was short with two old ass pitchers and pivoted at the right moment.
YourDreamGM
I fully support your transition.
Ham Fighter
Don’t worry Mets fans the team will be ready to win by 2030
LFGMets (Metsin7) #InEpplerIsGone!!!!
Give me 400 million dollars and my team would lose maybe 50 games all year. I was the only one who said the Mets weren’t going to do anything this year. It all starts at the top and then falls right to the bottom. The organization is ran by morons like Billy Eppler. Steve Cohen should of never of hired his 10th choice, instead he should of waited by hiring guys on one year deals till he found his guy
Milwaukee-2208
Cohen isn’t running a team, he thinks he’s playing MLB the show on easy with force trades/force free agency turned on
MarlinsFanBase
I’ve noticed the same thing and have said something similar.
I see it as him using his team as his own MLB the Show with the Mets having no budget while everyne else does.
StreakingBlue
He more thinks of it as a stock
ACK
Agreed. But you can buy Apple stock any day just depending on the price. you are willing to pay. There are a limited number of MLB players available and even fewer worth paying for at any price.
Cohen is in over his head. If you are a FA signing with the Mets you better ask for a full NTC.
cleonswoboda
no,Cohen is a long time Mets fan and the only difference between him and other Met fans is he has around 20 billion to throw around.
SocoComfort
Umm yea Diamond Dynasty is where it’s at. Best mode in the game.
Cam
You’re not the only one who thought the Mets were going to fall short this year – it just seems like it when you’re having conversations with yourself in a padded room.
YourDreamGM
$ spent on players who won’t be playing for them could cover payroll of other teams.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
For a supposed baseball fan of many years, Steve Cohen sure doesn’t seem to know anything about baseball. Like many people here have said, you give a smart fan $350 billion and he/she would have done markedly better than Uncle Steve. Sad.
JoeBrady
In his defense, I don’t think they were under the illusion that this was a $350M team. I think they knew they overpaid, but looked at it as a long-term investment to buy fans and ratings.
It really should’ve worked out better.
websoulsurfer
Mets attendance and ratings are up this season. Attendance is nearly double 2021 and 3k more than 2019. I think he succeeded in that part of the equation pretty well. The farm system is the strongest it’s been in a long while and it was atrocious when he bought the team in late 2020. At the start of his first full season as owner the Mets were a top heavy system with just 3 good prospects, a barren baseball operations group, and bereft of good analytical minds. It’s turned a complete 180 in just 2 years.
raisinsss
I have a policy to not take seriously anyone who says “should have” instead of “should have.”
I’ll make an exception to note that you also insisted that the Mets sign Zack Britton based on the fact that he held a workout and was good many years ago. Note that nobody has since signed him.
For clarification, do you now believe that your skills at armchair GMing are better than every actual GM?
raisinsss
See, even iPhone autocorrect will stop you from saying “should of” as it did it my previous post.
prov356
Saying “should of” is one of my pet peeves too. I noticed he also said “…is ran by…” instead of “is run by”. English is hard.
fw-
could of.. would of.. should of youtube.com/watch?v=yKhyj5Szmks
JoeBrady
You shoudda edited your post.
gbs42
Cohen and Eppler probably aren’t moronic enough to use “is ran,” “should of,” and “never of.”
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Congrats on using commas and periods correctly inside the quotes. You are great at a meaningless skill.
MrMet1979 2
You just stated nothing but facts. The Mets will suck for years to come if Eppier continues to run this team. This team was poorly constructed from the beginning signing players who were on the downside of their careers.
toshiro
No a lot of teams that spend big money do not win. Yankees, Angels, Rangers, Red Sox. Spending big money is no guarantee. The players in MLB are all very competitive.
Ma4170
Agree that spending big doesn’t necessarily equal winning, but it can help. Seems like people forget they did actually win 101 games last year w degrom and scherzer making only 33 starts between them. So they did buy a successful team for a year, just not a sustainable one, that’s for sure.
toshiro
It’s the pitching. Every pitcher in 2022 had an era less than 4. Only 2 guys less than 4 this year.
Year to year, the hitting is pretty consistent.
JackStrawb
@toshiro 159 of 162 starts came from pitchers with FIPs under 3.89.
Even Carlos Carrasco and David Peterson were around league average by ERA in 48 starts, with FIPs better than ERA!
It was nearly miraculous.
getrealgone2
Cohen and Tony Khan should be buddies.
Braves&Chargers
They Mets are the reverse of MJF. They’re worse than you and they know it
VonPurpleHayes
I think Tony Khan actually did a fantastic job despite some baffling booking decisions.
nottinghamforest13
Let’s get Jim Cornette’s take on the situation.
VonPurpleHayes
Jim Cornette is a very intelligent fella, but he’s just playing a character these days. His critique has gotten ridiculous. He’s just hating for ratings.
nottinghamforest13
His content would be stronger – even if his schtick didn’t change – if he had a better wingman than Brian Last. All Brian does is stroke Jim off the entire time because he’s the ultimate fanboy. Someone who would challenge Jim on occasion or at least not come off like a complete simp would be an upgrade.
VonPurpleHayes
100% agreed!
SocoComfort
@Von I have a feeling Cornette has been in character since the early 80s. Dude is so old school, he is always in character lol especially on his podcast.
VonPurpleHayes
Yeah. I can definitely see that. The man is a treasure, but you can’t take him seriously.
El Duderino
I’ve just been enjoying hearing Cornette go old school angry with Colin Thomson and Kast. It’s like he’s breaking in a new tennis racket!
Cam
Gotta give the Mets some credit – they pivoted before the mess got worse. Only have to look at Preller and the Padres, to see what doubling down can lead to.
YourDreamGM
I like Padres chances though. And if they get some home playoff games it will be more than worth it. Wouldn’t recommend it for everyone but was fun to see and can see why they did it.
vivalosdoyers
Can’t wait to see your response when they miss the playoffs, get nothing in return for their pending FAs, all while trading off more assets.
theo2016
They totally should have moved Alonso. Looking at what the Marlins gave for Bell. They could have even been a third team and just taken Segura and bell for a solid haul. Especially with that Marlins young pitching.
JoeBrady
That’s the puzzler. If they process is to skip 2024, then why save Alonso?
raisinsss
That was the process, as communicated to Max Scherzer, in a meeting to determine if he’d waive his NTC. Turns out, this conversation was enough for him to waive the NTC.
Important context.
Sunday Lasagna
Maybe they said what they said to Max just to get him to approve the trade. Maybe Max got played. There is no crying in baseball, but no-one said there is no lying,
braves25
@Raisinsss and WanpumWalloper
Except for they said the same things to Lindor, Verlander, and others.
So it wasn’t just a message to Max to get him to waive his NTC. it was a message to the current roster along with the FA class to be. I think the Mets shot themselves in the foot if they intend to go “all in” for 2024.
Pads Fans
No Brave. No they didn’t. Lindor has never said that they did. Not sure where you are getting that misinformation.
braves25
@Pads Fans
Actually Lindor did say he was told virtually the same thing as Scherzer. He said they were “reallocating resources” to look at the future of the team. Likely setting the team up better for 2025 and beyond. He also said he was onboard with this decision and was excited about the future.
I believe it was the New York post. I read it on bleacherreport.com
websoulsurfer
Yet you can produce NOTHING where they said anything of the sort to Lindor. That is because Lindor never said that at any point.
Verlander has not spoken to the media since the trade about any conversations with Cohen, so that is an out and out lie. Verlander has some class. Scherzer has none.
websoulsurfer
Braves,
Just searched every post on bleacherreport.com that even mentions Lindor. Nothing there. bleacherreport.com/francisco-lindor
Here is what he said in the NY Post.
“It’s a repositioning of players and assets in the organization, and we’re trying to build a sustainable system,” Francisco Lindor said before the Mets’ 7-6, 10-inning loss to the Royals. “It is, I will call it … relocating the assets that we have — moving some players and trying to allocate some players that are going to help us maybe late this year, next year and in the years to come.”
Lindor, whose contract runs through 2031, said he’s onboard with the philosophical shift and he remains optimistic about the near future.
nypost.com/2023/08/02/what-pete-alonso-francisco-l…
Why lie when it’s so easy to do a search for it?
braves25
@websoulsurfer
I didn’t lie about anything. What Lindor said essentially lines up with what Scherzer said, doesn’t it?
None of the guys the Mets got will be ready to be extremely competitive until 2025.
Cohen has even suggested the same thing by saying expectations will not be as high next year. That is because they will need these young players to finish developing.
Look at how Baby has struggled this season! Acuna will be up in 2024 and the other guys they got in these trades will be mid 24 or 2025 before they reach the majors.
websoulsurfer
You lied. I called you on it. Man up and say you were wrong.
braves25
I didn’t lie. He was told basically the same thing Max was told. Which is what I said. They traded major league pieces for minor league pieces. They are paying a lot of money the next 2 seasons for Scherzer and Verlander to pitch somewhere else.
Cohen has even said the expectations will not be as high. They aren’t “punting” on 2024 but it is more likely that 2025 and beyond.
Pads Fans
Braves, he posted the actual article you said you read in the Post and Lindor nor any other Mets player says anything close to your claims. Why double down after you have been shown to be absolutely wrong? Plus there was no article in Bleacher Report as you claimed.
Cohen said both that they will sign free agents this offseason and that they will compete in 2024.
JackStrawb
It’s funny how indifferent Americans will be regarding their reputations if they can snag a few bucks with a lie.
The Mets as of this late date, November 2023, have a payroll for LT purposes of over $270 million. At the usual FA prices, it will take the Mets a payroll in 2024 of around $400 million (pre-tax!) just to aim for around 85 wins.
I’d do it if I had Cohen’s money, especially if I could lock up Yamamoto early in the offseason, but I wouldn’t expect him to. He’ll be afraid of looking (even more) ridiculous after his abject failure in 2023.
SocoComfort
They saved Alonso in the hopes of re signing him and being a key piece moving forward. The Braves did the same thing with Freeman in 2014 kind of. They resigned Freeman before the rebuild and built around him. The Mets maybe looking to do a similar thing but they need to resign Alonso.
JackStrawb
@SocoComfort Not if they have a brain cell. Alonso is NOT a guy you build around. Freeman’s going to be voted into the Hall of Fame, probably on the first ballot. Alonso will always have to buy a ticket.
Freeman turned 27 when his extension kicked in. His most recent season he racked up 6.3 rWAR.
Alonso turns 30 when his next deal starts. That’s three prime seasons missing. His most recent season was a paltry 3.2 rWAR, or half FF;s last year.
There’s no comparison.
yetipro
Maybe Alonso will lose 75 pounds & be in the shape of his life in 2026?
Ella B
Just when you think the conversation can’t get any dumber, someone like yeti posts. Yeti keeping it real…real dumb.
Pads Fans
Because they are not going to skip 2024. They were shopping Scherzer, so why in the world would they tell him what they plan to do.
10centBeerNight
We will know in about 8 months what’s what. They certainly reloaded their system. NYM fans can take solace in that
YourDreamGM
I remember most Mets fans loving these moves. You guys are just jealous your owner doesn’t spend. Now they have to live with the consequences. But yeah farm got a huge boost.
raisinsss
Nobody signed this off-season really disappointed. Pham, senga, Verlander all good to great. Narvaez injured then OBE Alvarez (who just homered in the 10th, btw). Quintana injury, but looking great in Sss since return.
Not too hard to find the reasons for the bad 2/3 season… Marte, Vogelbach, and McNeil collapsed. Diaz / Quintana were lost, Pete was merely good. No LH DH. Baty not good, bullpen iffy after the top few, lindor and Scherzer down a few notches from last year.
VonPurpleHayes
Alvarez’s 10th inning homer was immediately nullified. Rough day for Mets fans despite soms nice prospect hauls.
raisinsss
Oh, and your 4 and 5 starters for a while, Peterson and Megill provided negative value.
MrMet1979 2
Those prospects were mediocre AF.
raisinsss
Your opinions are awful. Please stop.
Samuel
They got what – 7-8 guys and “reloaded their system”?
Did you know that getting the rights to players that will perform in your minor league system is simply step one. The next step is to coach them up and prepare them for playing at the major league level. To do that a franchise must have numbers of quality coaches that are working within a philosophy of coaching up the different positions so that as the player moves up to the major leagues he fits in with what the ML team is doing. Do you know anything about the quality of the people working in the Mets organization at the minor league level? Have you seen some success from them? Did you know that most prospects fail….overwhelmingly…..which is why Cohen started out overpaying for established players?
The joke is on Lindor. His agents got him his money and years. But now he’s stuck on that team unless his agents can convince another team to trade for him while Cohen will pay $150m of his salary…..the problem being that the other team will still be liable for another $150m and he’s simply not worth it.
Hurricane Sandy
Accruing a bunch of High end prospects is more than just about expecting them all to join your major league roster, it’s also about having prospects to deal for other impact players. The Mets Strategy in recent years has been to take the best player available, regardless of positional need. In future years, when teams are looking to sell off valuable assets like the Mets are now, they will be sure to call the Mets regarding said prospects. And the Mets can then be in on big names via the trade market and not just waiting for the high end players to hit free agency if they have any chance of acquiring them. That’s what all of this “emulate the Dodgers (and Braves)” organization-building is all about.
Hurricane Sandy
There’s no “joke on Lindor”. Any savvy baseball player can see that the Mets are a team that A) Is willing to pay top dollar for the best talent in free agency B) Is willing to use financial assets to acquire the best players/prospects and C) Is smart enough to know that a strong farm system is the best way to ensure continued and sustained success. The fact that Cohen was able to realize where this season is going and was willing to pivot so quickly is a testament to his intelligence and what a great owner he will be in years to come. Lindor knows this. The Mets will be competing for championships in one to two years – Lindor knows he will still be in the middle of all that.
yetipro
@Hurricane – Ahaha. Please, I implore you to find the nearest stage & microphone & charge for admission. People would love this routine! They have lost for how many years while having a high payroll & actually, it was all a part of the genius plan! Please tell us more!!!
Hurricane Sandy
No silly.. after winning 101 games last year, they tried their best to win with an older roster by adding free agents because they have no high end upper-level pitching and it didn’t work, so now they’re trading win-now assets that are useless to them to restock their organization. I’m not even very smart.. this is just typical baseball stuff.
Avory
Riiight. Lindor is already declining. HIs prime is long since past. He got paid, but now he gets what he deserves: baseball purgatory.
Samuel
“Accruing a bunch of High end prospects is more than just about expecting them all to join your major league roster, it’s also about having prospects to deal for other impact players.”
Hurricane Sandy;
LOL
So you say they’re go to go in circles…..
The last few years they went for it. Now they’re going to take a step back and build-up their minor league prospect numbers within a year or two, so that they can trade multiple prospects for individual established veteran players (that’s how it works).
Did you read Scherzer quotes? That’s not remotely what he was told.
Hurricane Sandy
You guys are funny. So what is it you are proposing the Mets are supposed to be doing right now where they’re at? Keep underperforming 40 year old pitchers and keep “trying”? This is how you return to relevancy. I’m pretty sure I’m just talking to Mets haters but correct me if I’m wrong.
JoeBrady
I don’t hate the Mets. As a confirmed Yankee hater, I would prefer the Mets take over the city. For me, if you can afford the $385M, then it seems almost impossible to be rebuilding. Perhaps I’m a bit delusional, but I cannot believe that if someone handed me $350M for salaries, that I couldn’t build a 90-win team.
Pretend as if they didn’t trade Scherzer & Verlander. Their 2024 payroll would be $287M. With a budget of $350M, I’d have $63M to spend. That’s Yamamoto, a good but not great OF, DH, and RP.
That should be a 90-win team.
toshiro
Youch! He’s doing as well as he did last year and is on pace for 100 runs/rbi. Don’t think you can blame him for this year.
Hurricane Sandy
I’m actually not in disagreement with you at all. I’ve been completely mystified as what exactly on this team is costing us close to $400 million, especially when you consider the only guy that really deserves to be paid (Pete) hasn’t even been paid yet. But this leads to why I think the Mets need to drop the dead weight and acquire more cost controlled assets. They’re spending a fortune on going nowhere (much like the Yankees continue to do). I’d rather spend money on trying to dig my way out of the mess.
yetipro
Alonso is terrible, & an awful teammate. He cries every single time he thinks he hasn’t gotten his way. He looks like he is about to spontaneously combust at least once per game. All while straddling the Mendoza line & hitting a few long home runs with no one on base
Hurricane Sandy
It’s useless to me to continue this conversation lol. Alonso has a knack for big moments for the record.
Ella B
Yeti seems to have a really weird obsession with Alonso. Did he hurt you with a homerun ball?
raisinsss
In other words, what do I need to say to Max Scherzer right now to get him to waive his no-trade clause?
VonPurpleHayes
I think Scherzer had no problems waiving it to play on any contender. I sadly think there was a lot of truth to what Eppler told him. Trading Verlander confirms it. Why wouldn’t the Mets keep one of the two if they hope to compete next year? This a rebuild.
raisinsss
1. Scherzer wasn’t really good this year and I’m surprised at the return. Money saved would be better spent elsewhere; prospect is just a bonus.
2. Money saved and prospect haul for Verlander, after conceding this year, along with risk of decline next year probably made the decision in his case.
I mean… in the chat, Eppler also said that some other much bigger names might be moved for the 2025 window. None were.
I fully expect them to reload SP. I don’t think they’ll be as aggressive, but they’ll be competitive.
Astros Hot Takes
the poor Mets fans, after all they’ve been through
Samuel
Astros Hot Takes;
It’s going to get worse. Far worse.
You know following the Astros that quality organizations must build up their infrastructures to succeed in order to (constantly) acquire and develop players they have under contract…at all levels of the minor leagues as well as the majors. That takes years and years. Teams like the current Padres did great signing prospects – but they couldn’t develop most, and those that made the major leagues never amounted to much. Teams such as the Astros, Braves and now Orioles do the acquisition part, but they also do the development part…..and that takes years.
Start with the fact that few of value wanted to work for Cohen’s Mets in the first place. Then consider people that want long-term successful careers in MLB organizations. Based on Cohen’s extremes IN JUST ONE YEAR (going all in….whoops….we’re building the farm up) how many quality, talented people looking for a long-term career want to get involved with an organization like this?
So the Mets are going through a “A Kind Of Transitory Year”? Tell me, did the Astros build up in a year? The Braves? The Orioles?
This is total nonsense. It buys the owner a year or two. Then they’ll be back to overpaying for old, name free agents again. Running in circles – like the Yankees do.
Again, MLB is not Rotisserie League or computer baseball. It’s about human beings. And not just those that wear the uniform.
kodiak920
What you say makes sense. The only thing is we are talking about New York. The Mets and especially the Yankees, can’t field 50 win teams for 4 or 5 years. Also, the new draft rules are heavily tilted against teams that don’t receive revenue sharing.
MrMet1979 2
That was very well said and a realistic prospective. I hope other Met fans read your comments. As a life long Mets fan I’m embarrassed at what transpired yesterday.
Astros Hot Takes
@Samuel – did you see the video of Framber going straight to Maldonado for the big hug & grin fest after the no-no yesterday? Maldonado is to Framber as McCarver was to Carlton, except maybe even moreso. There is NO WAY to quantify how many ACTUAL wins for this club that Maldonado has been instrumental toward, but given his work with the pitching staff, and his BRILLIANT and time-consuming pre-game prep, I would venture to suggest that Astros have 40+ more wins over last few years than they would have had without him.
And that raises the Cardinal question : I contend that Cards would have way more wins this year, if Yadi had stuck around for this season.
ACK
The Mets are a mess. They are paying Scherzer up to $35 mill to pitch for Texas and Verlander up to $50 mill to pitch for the Astros. Now they have 2 open SP spots that apparently they are NOT going to replace in 2024 FA market. WHy not just keep Scherzer & Verlander? You are already still paying over half of their remaining salary.
If you are going all in, than for better or worse you see it thru to the end even if it doesn’t work. I would much rather stay the course as the Padres are doing than waive the white flag for the next 2 years as the Mets are doing with 2 months left in the season. The money has already been spent.
getrealgone2
Cohen is pretty much paying for prospects because their farm was pretty weak.
raisinsss
In fairness, 90% of farms would be weak after graduating Alvarez, baty, and even vientos. They’re probably top 5-9 or so at this point, depending on what you value.
With Diaz coming back and some $ off the books next year, will likely take advantage of a pitcher-heavy FA class.
VonPurpleHayes
Is a lot of money off the books next year? I don’t mean that with any sarcasm. I’m genuinely curious. I know they’re still on the hook for a lot of salary. Are they still over the 4th tier of the lux tax in 2024?
raisinsss
Not sure of the exact number, but just looking at the $ paid by the Astros and rangers is significant. Getting just a portion of their salaries moved will go a long way.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Graduating two regulars and Vientos shouldn’t make their system weak, but it did. Stop being an apologist.
Chris G.
Their cap for next year drops down to $204 mil, so they’ll be about $33 mil under the lowest threshold. The only significant arb-eligible player they have is Pete.
Contracts for Cano, Escobar, Canha, Carrasco, Robertson, Pham, Ruf are all off the books. Plus the portions of Max and JV that they’re not responsible for. So they’re shedding a decent amount of salary, that’s $108 million just from those players.
VonPurpleHayes
Thanks Chris G. Apologies for my laziness in doing the research.
Atloriolesfan
I know you may have been thinking of the Os as in the 10%, not the 90%, but they graduated Henderson, Rutschman and Grayson Rodriguez, not Baty, Vientos and Alvarez and still have Holliday, Mayo, Kjerstad, Ortiz, Norby coming. Maurico might be very good and I like their pickups, but they still don’t have a farm system that will deliver contender talent by 2025. The core issue is Eppler and he gifted the Os a good part of their MILB pitching talent. So Eppler is going to make them competitive by 2025? No.
raisinsss
Wat?
Losing prospects ranked 13, 23, and 39 (fg) would severely weaken any farm system in terms of rankings. Are you disagreeing with this or just being argumentative for its own sake?
I feel like this is a very common sense sort of situation here.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Maybe those are the team rankings, Vientos was not ranked in the top 40.
CleaverGreene
I believe they are at 175M for 2024. Cano is off the books!
MrMet1979 2
Outside of Snell next year’s pitching FA are very weak. And what makes you think players would want to come here after this?
Ella B
Ummm, money. Pretty simple.
raisinsss
“Maybe” if you were legitimately interested in the conversation you’d do just a tiny bit of research on your own instead of sharing your really strong feelings about how righteously judgmental you deserve to be.
Pads Fans
If they pick up all remaining options, the Mets have $249 million on the books for next season and just Cookie as a FA. If they don’t pick up the options for Narvaez, Ottavino, and Voit then they have just $219 million in the books. That includes estimated arbitration raises.
For CBT purposes, if they don’t pick up the options they are at about $243 million. About $6 million over the first level. If they do pick up the options that adds $30 million to the total.
Pads Fans
After these trades the Mets farm system is top 9 or 10. They have 5 players in the top 100 and 18 players in the top 250. That is a good and deep system today.
rct
“The Mets are a mess.”
They now have one of the best farm systems in baseball and an owner who is willing to spend whatever it takes to win. So…. no. They’re not a mess at all. They’re a mess only to clueless morons who don’t follow the Mets. It’s crazy the number of people who don’t know anything about the Mets who spout off about them.
yetipro
@rct – Spending more than any American professional sports team in history by a large margin & within months having to not only wave the white flag on the current season but ALSO the next TWO SEASONS: “the Mets finally have ’em where they want ’em! Genius!”
VonPurpleHayes
It’s tough, but you can’t judge Cohen by how much he’s spending. It’s a financial disaster. A major league baseball team from NY is actually barely making a profit this year, but Cohen has more money than most. He’s okay eating the cost to develop a farm. If you ignore the insane amount of money spent and just look at the prospects acquired, the Mets are doing ok.
MrMet1979 2
I’ve been a Mets fan for over 35 years and they’re definitely a mess. You don’t pay Max Scherzer and Justin Verlander to pitch somewhere else. All of this for mediocre prospects? Get ready to be spanked by the Braves for another decade. Enjoy.
VonPurpleHayes
To be fair, the Mets were going to be spanked by the Braves regardless of the rebuild or not. They were close to 20 games back at one point before selling anyone. This wasn’t going to work. A change in strategy was needed.
Ella B
Lol, “mediocre prospects”? You should maybe try this thing called the internet and look up who they got back. Acuna will be the starting 2nd baseman by mid-2024 and Gilbert will push Nimmo to left in 2025. Big holes to fill in the rotation but quality returns on both deals.
VonPurpleHayes
@Ella B This misses the fundamental issue with good prospects, they need good development. The Mets haven’t been able to develop good talent for some time now. It doesn’t matter how much potential a prospect has, it’s up to the organization to develop him properly. It remains to be seen if the Mets will do that for Acuna.
Pads Fans
The Mets developed Alvarez recently. That is a huge win for their player development. If you want to go back further there are several more that are still on the team.
According to Cohen the Mets have spent more than $45 million on personnel and infrastructure for player development since he bought the team. That is a season of Scherzer.
The Wilpons had gutted player development and scouting. 50 people lost their jobs or were relegated to watching video instead of seeing players in person. The Mets owned none of the newest player development technology when Cohen took over. Their spring training facility was not equipped with a Trackman, Rapsodo or Hawkeye unit. No Blast Motion or Diamond Kinetics. No 4D Motion or K-Motion. No GameSense, F5, or Motus. No Edgertronic cameras. In short, none of the advanced tech nearly every other team in baseball utilizes in player development.
Like building back up the farm and the team that takes time or money. Cohen chose to spend money and its paying off.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s too early to say Alvarez is a stud, but he has tremendous power. I think he’ll be the real deal, but time will tell. Just like it’s too early to call Baty a bust.
I don’t think we’re seeing any payoff from Cohen’s “improved” team yet. These things usually take 2-3 years before seeing any impact. Again, time will tell.
Pads Fans
114 OPS+ with 21 HR and good defense in his rookie season. A BABip and other peripherals that point to upwards regression. I am going to go out on a very sturdy limb and say he is at the very least a MLB average catcher going forward.
Eppler has had 2 drafts and 1 International free agent period to build that farm. Cohen decided to spend to supplement building it and they succeeded. Its my understanding that the Mets will have 7 top 100 prospects on the next update by MLB Pipeline and BA already has them with 7. That’s a very good system.
101 wins in year 2. I would say that is seeing something.
This years team had a large number of veterans that were either injured or underperformed or both. Diaz. Scherzer. Verlander. Carrasco. Escobar. McNeil. Canha. Marte. Vogelbach.
Scherzer, Verlander, Escobar, Canha, Carrasco, and Vogelbach are gone or will be gone at season’s end.
Diaz will be back in 2024. Quintana is pitching well now and will be back. Lucchesi will be back. McNeil and Marte have never had a season as bad as we have seen so far in 2023 so we can expect a bounce back in 2024.
The core is there. They will definitely need some FA signings and trades to be made in the offseason to fill 2 SP, 1 RP, and DH in order to compete, but Cohen will have a payroll nearly $100 million less in 2024 and a huge stockpile of prospects to trade from. They are in a good place. .
We will see one of the largest groups of quality starters on the FA market ever even if you don’t include Ohtani. It’s important to remember that Eppler recruited Ohtani to come to the Angels. Not saying he will sign there, but it should not be discounted as a possibility. Eppler is also why they are considered the front runners to sign Yamamoto if he is posted by his NPB team.
flamingbagofpoop
Apparently he is not willing to spend whatever it takes to win, shown by the fact that he is tearing the current team down…
Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope though.
Pads Fans
That may be the dumbest take I have seen on this site yet. Cohen just spent the largest amount ever in the history of the game, even adjusted for inflation.
But then your name tells us exactly what your opinion is worth.
MPrck
Houston really blasted off tonight. It doesn’t get any better than today other than winning the world series.
Astros Hot Takes
@MP they certainly did!!!!!!!! They are FEELING it.
VonPurpleHayes
What’s interesting is, the Stros could have just paid Verlander. Now they wasted 2 big prospects to get him back. I get the immediate excitement, but it seems like a dumb move, unless of course, they bring home another ring because of Verlander, which is possible.
flamingbagofpoop
The Mets are paying $35-$50m of his deal. For a team that’s trying to win right now, having that much money to spend is more impactful than the 50 & 45 FV prospects they traded.
VonPurpleHayes
My point is, they were already win-now. How much better are they with Verlander? Definitely improved, but if they get knocked out in the first or second round, was giving up those picks really worth it? I actually like the trade more for the Mets.
flamingbagofpoop
If that was your point, the wording was very odd.
I think you could say, “if they get knocked out early, was it worth it?” for basically every trade deadline deal ever.
VonPurpleHayes
Right, but in this unique case the Astros could have just had Verlander for money, which I think they would have been better off doing. Sure, the Mets are paying a chunk of his salary, but the Stros lost some of their best prospects. They could have easily afforded Verlander with just cash.
flamingbagofpoop
The Astros couldn’t have just had him for the amount of money they’re paying now. You say they could have easily afforded him, what do you base this on? Could they have afforded him + the other free agents they signed? MLB teams operate on budgets, regardless of what people on here want to believe.
JoeBrady
MLB teams operate on budgets, regardless of what people on here want to believe.
============================
I’m not sure how many of these people have practical experience in the outside world. Apple could afford to pay me $1B to do their financials, but that’s not happening.
And that happens on a personal level as well. Most of us could afford $600 to sit behind the plate for a game, but almost none of do.
flamingbagofpoop
Yes, you can definitely tell the ones that have little to no real world experience and even worse, the ones that took an econ 101 class and think they’re smart.
VPH is not usually one of them, so that’s odd.
Samuel
Von;
I think your’ missing something….
The Astros could not have just paid Verlander the salary they’re paying him now. Cohen and the Mets are covering a good portion of his contract.
It cost the Astros a few prospects, but they’re no paying Verlander what they initially offered him.
MrMet1979 2
Those prospects are average. Their farm system is ranked at the bottom. Why pay Verlander when you can have the Mets do it for them?
VonPurpleHayes
Fair take, but the Stros have plenty of money. They have 0 farm now. Astros are the cream of the crop now, but we aren’t too far away removed from years of tanking, and if the farm is empty, we may be getting that again soon. All worth it for a ring of course. I just don’t think they needed Verlander for a ring.
Samuel
Von;
The Astros brought in Dana Brown this past offseason to run Baseball Ops. He came from the Braves where he was known for heading up their drafting areas (among other things).
The owner knows the Astros situation and is addressing it…and getting blistered for it….. as James Click rode the horse to victory but didn’t feed it for the next race.
Pads Fans
Acuna is a top 50 prospect in baseball and is in AA at age 21. Gilbert is ranked 68th and also in AA. Both are graded out as a 55 or 60 by MLB and BA. That is a far cry from average.
Clifford grades out as a 50 and has a .919 OPS with 18 HR this season in A and A+ ball at age 20.
Maybe try actually looking up the facts before commenting.
Pads Fans
He hasn’t pitched well in the playoff the last 3 or 4 times he has been there, so it will be in spite of him if they win the WS again.
Dustyslambchops23
Lol master manipulation to get him to waive his NTC
BombFlorida
“I spoke with Steve and he basically said, are you a huge moron, max? We are paying you and Justin like 100 million/year and you are both taking a huge dump on the linens. How can you expect us to contend next year? Stop acting like you actually care about this stuff, shut your dumb mouth, and sign off on this trade”.
Pads Fans
This ^^^ Great post Bomb.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Lol Mets
Their 43.3 million caveman (now a Ranger) basically called them a rebuilding club with no hopes this season or the next.
Mikenmn
At least they have ownership with a vision of the future and a direction to their moves. Maybe they won’t work, but there’s a plan. Compare and contrast that with “my” team, the hapless, Cashman-led Yankees. There’s a team with no direction and no clue. Yankees moved no one–and that tells you not only about Cashman’s lack of imagination, but the incredible paucity of productive players on their team. There was activity this trading deadline, and no buying team as interested enough in anyone on the Yankees roster to bother. Judge is a remarkable talent, Cole is very good….and then, the abyss opens.. Mets may be building for 2025. Yankees will be bad for several years. They’ve been picked clean by previous bad trades, and left with old, infirm, and past-their prime. roster, and a handful of kids that haven’t quite stepped up. Brutal to watch.
Samuel
Actually Mikenmn, the Mets are just like the Yankees, only 3-4 years behind them.
The Yankees under Hal Cashman have spent years lunging from one theory to another. The difference is that Hal Cashman failed in all and are now stumped on what to do next. The Mets have just started their lunging.
MLB today is about organizations. It means empowering people throughout the organization to make decisions and to help one another in sharing information to make better decisions….including on the field of play. The Yankees and now the Mets both have old line baseball management practices in which one or two people at the top tell everyone below them what to do – then it’s “My Way Or The Highway” or “When I say ‘Jump’, you reply ‘How High’? MLB doesn’t work like that anymore. A franchise has hundreds of people under contract not counting the players. Those people supposedly have talent and want to develop it. There aren’t enough hours in the day for one or two people at the top to keep track of all the things that have to be done. MLB franchises can no longer be run like a Mom-and-Pop operation.
rct
Is Samuel the least informed poster on this site? What a pile of idiotic garbage.
raisinsss
Mr met giving him a run for his money.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I am not here for Max Schezer, I am here for the hot women and their ads
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
See… This is what happens when you let a bunch of middle-aged men run a company. It’s quite interesting that they still pretend to care so much about women with their hit pieces on certain guys (Sano, Bauer, Ozuna, Chapman, etc), but it’s all really just an excuse to put inappropriate ads on here. I didn’t realize MLB TR uses these types of ads to gain $ until you mentioned it.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Hahaha
I am not sure if I would have mentioned it, but since Mlbtraderumors mentioned about being ad free, but you would miss all the hot women if you gonac free
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The ads that are shown are brought to you based on the websites you interact with. MLBTR does not pick the ads that get displayed. Right now my ads on MLBTR are for FUBO TV and baseball jerseys.
raisinsss
I assure you, there’s no reason I would be shown a John Deere gator xuv ad if even the most basic tracking/analytics were performed.
Could pihole a home network and VPN in 😉
Sid Bream Speed Demon
You could always pay the tiny subscription cost and not deal with ads at all. ♂️
VonPurpleHayes
This is pretty upsetting for Mets fans, but I get it. Part of me wondered if they’d just be buying a rotation in the offseason, but it seems like that won’t be the case.
rct
Eh. I’m not too upset. You have to remember, we’re all used to the Wilpons running things with guys like Steve Phillips at the helm. If anything, this is refreshing. *If* you believe Scherzer, of course. I personally don’t think Cohen will be able to help himself and he’ll spend this offseason and try to win next year.
Ma4170
I think they’ll absolutely go for a FA if he is younger and they feel he has long-term value, and I’m pretty sure they were telling Max what he needed to hear to accept the trade. I’ll be truly shocked if they’re not in on Yamamoto or any other younger FA they like. I’m hoping they’re done with bringing in the 2-3 year aging vet to try and compete for the short-term.
JoeBrady
There is some logic to that, but it doesn’t feel right that Scherzer is disclosing the NYM strategy. Mets fans seem pretty happy with this turn of events, so there is always that.
Pads Fans
So do Mets players. 11 players quoted in interviews. None say they are going to miss Scherzer.
sufferforsnakes
$$$$$$HAHAHAHAHA$$$$$$HAHAHAHAHA$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Citizen1
Should have made Scherzer the gm and released eppler.
Longtimecoming
I don’t think I see any other posts that suggests this but let me just pitch this: “hey, what do we need to say to Max to get him to waive?” “Maybe we should tell him we aren’t going to compete next year?” “Yeah, they should work.”
Not a Mets fan and don’t care just saying it could be playing the man.
neurogame
I wonder just how “productive” star players like Francisco Lindor and Jeff McNeil will be in three years timeline when the Mets can think about being competitive. Perhaps the offensive development of Alvarez, Baty and other prospects brought up can help mitigate their decline.
Usually, organizations like to draft and graduate players within their system as they are cost controlled, cheap talent. It got me thinking about how much the Mets valued the young, high ranking prospects in other organizations verses how much they are actually paid.
Assuming Verlander opts into 2025 and Scherzer doesn’t do something unexpected like retire, the Mets are paying $87.5M combined to Houston & Texas. If the assumption is that next year the prospects they received go up one level, the salaries these three players make is just under $94k in total. I’m not making a statement or anything but, it’s a strange and unfair scenario that the business values it’s workers so much to a tune of nearly $88M, yet the actual payment of its employees is 0.1% of what was exchanged to acquire them.
brooklyn62
“This is just a repurposing of Steve’s investment in the club, and kind of shifting that investment from the team into the organization.”
Lord how I despise CorpSpeak! An investment? Really? Never have I witnessed such squandering of financial resources the way that Cohen/Eppler did with Scherzer and Verlander,first with their enormous salaries then trading them away with fat $$ to cover for their new “employers”(CorpSpeak).
At least the Mets grabbed the headlines from this Trade Deadline. One could look at that publicity as an “investment “.
10centBeerNight
NYM did the right thing and got some solid prospects. I doubt they will sit out FA – just be more measured.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I am just here to breathe in all of the wonderful copium from LOLMets fans. The Braves beat them into a 2 year rebuild before August. Every obnoxious Mets fan on here has suddenly ended up on the back of a milk carton. Where is Put it in the Books at?
YankeesBleacherCreature
To use my poor poker analogy: Cohen sat down at poker table full of professionals. Bought in with an amount covering all of other players chips. Thought he could simply steamroll everyone. Pushed all-in on a hand and got called by a better hand. Cohen now realizes he was the whale and is going to play less-skilled players at lower stakes at a different table.
i like al conin
I don’t think this is fair. It was done with the full work of the professionals in the front office. He didn’t operate alone.
cleonswoboda
if the Mets really wanted the best person to be president of baseball operations they should throw a boatload of money at Miami’s Kim Ng. she put down the blueprint for the Dodgers that they’re still following and now she’s gotten some respectability back for the mess that the Marlins were for a few years.
foppert1
The P&L might been worse than Steve anticipated.
Good on him. Had a crack at an expensive shortcu. Looking like an unwise strategy. Pulled the pin. Diverting the rivers of payroll cash into development in an attempt to catch up fast in that area. Sounds reasonable to me. Respect to Steve.
jakec77
I’ll believe it when I see it.
One, I can’t believe the Mets won’t try to be in on Ohtani (which isn’t to say he will be interested in them).
Two- all of the Mets prospects are hitters. Their biggest weakness going into next year as of right now is their starting rotation. There is a fairly strong free agent class of starting pitchers this off season. You telling me the Mets aren’t going to go after at least a couple of those pitchers? Because, if they don’t, there is no guarantee that any of the guys listed as becoming available after 2024 will actually do so, since they can get locked up before then.
Reyordonézfanclub
As a fan I’m glad he talked…..as an owner I’d be pissed that they can’t spin championship aspirations to the fans
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Over/Under 65% he returns to the Mets in ’25?
Rsox
I’ll take the under. Scherzer’s tank is almost empty, if he gets another ring or at least to another World Series in the next couple of years in Texas he probably retires after ’24
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
You’re probably right. It would be cool for him to come full circle and end his career where it started. With the DBacks.
I remember watching dbacks and cubs game. It was probably early april because you could tell it was cold as balls at Wrigley. Anyway. He went 7 scoreless. The bullpen immediately gave up the lead cause a ND for him.
I don’t know who Arz has on the books. Maybe Bumgarner after they released this back in April.
Pads Fans
0%. He burned his bridge by sharing a private conversation about the plans of the team publicly.
I also think that 2024 will be his last year. No team will be willing to sign him after that stunt even if he pitches decently in Texas and I don’t think he will do any better there than he did in NY this season.
braves fan 138
LOL METS
Paleobros
Thank you. This is good, knowledgeable narrative coverage. I’m a Braves fan but I can respect both sides on the Mets equation here of sometimes it’s time to hold em sometimes it’s time to fold em and keep it moving.
Rsox
Spend like drunken sailors on shore leave, watch as it fails miserably, trade off everyone and the kitchen sink while absorbing the vast majority of the salaries and then tell everyone we are eyeing 2 or 3 years from now?
Mets are gonna Mets…
bjhaas1977
Mouricio not being in left field tonight is an insult to the fan base.
toshiro
I did’t see much mention of Mauricio in this thread. Who plays in Pham’s slot? McNeil is decent in corner OF if they don’t see Mauricio in OF. Then Ronny can play at 2nd.
case
Spending 20+ million dollars and pitchers that even without the money could net you quality prospects seems a bit ridiculous. I’m not convinced the ownership/GM are good at baseball.
bjhaas1977
I feel that this was said to get his okay to move him.
BlueSkies_LA
Transitory means impermanent. Since a year can’t be that, presumably he meant transitional. Obviously Mr. Scherzer is better at throwing baseballs than at making sentences.
TSTEAK
I really don’t see it as a failure. The failure would have been to not acquire value for the pieces they bought. I’ve thought of this as a giants fan. If the giants were 5 games back at every trade deadline for the last 5 years w the exception of 21 where could they be. There’s maybe 15 players that could have been moved. Even at at a 25% MLP rate they would either be 1 in a better position today which leads to chasing a DT or same spot stand pat and let the kids take you as far as they can. The Mets have deep enough pockets why not spend on good 1 to 2 year deals and see where you’re at next deadline and have the ability to flip them for more there will certainty be those types of players available next offseason.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s an absolute failure. The most expensive failure in the history of baseball, but to your point, Cohen and co. had enough courage and foresight to pivot to Plan B and salvage what they could. No other owner could have done this because it’s so much sunk cost, but the Mets have a farm now. That doesn’t help impatient fans or currently rostered stars who want to win now, but it does give the Mets future hope. I think a lot of fans are going to be annoyed when they aren’t that great next year either.
Rsox
Luisangel Acuna and Drew Gilbert and it only cost what could amount to $74 million…
VonPurpleHayes
Haha. Exactly. $74 million on lotto tickets who may never work out. It’s insanity, but this is the Cohen-era. He has no problem throwing $74 million out the window for a gamble that may work out.
ButCanHePitch
It’s not a fire sale only because they didn’t trade Lindor or Alonso. This team fell and fell hard. The last team I recall doing this was the 2012(?) Marlins. Had a payroll north of $100M and they traded everyone.
bigalcathey
So if the Mets trade a player and agree to pay half his salary for 2024, they cut the acquiring team a check, but for luxury taxes purposes 100% of the salary counts against the acquiring team? Is that correct?
VonPurpleHayes
From my understanding that’s not correct. The Mets portion goes against them.
Pads Fans
The portion the Mets are paying in each season still counts against them. It does cut the AAV of the deals though, so its a huge amount of money coming off the Mets CBT payroll.
According to Cots Baseball Contracts, the best resource in payroll matters, in the 4 trades they made the Mets dropped approximately $66 million in salaries and penalties off their payroll this year and a smaller amount next season.
Their 2024 payroll including arbitration raises and all options is under $250 million.
uvmfiji
Has there ever been an executive with as much money at his disposal as Eppler? Would love to see what this guy could do in Pittsburgh.
jswanny41
Part of me says LOLMets but part of me thinks Scherzer got gmspoke into waiving his no trade clause
10centBeerNight
I give the org credit for reading the situation. They know there would be brutal blowback from the Long Island contingent who are glued to sports radio 24/7. It’s absolutely stupefying why the Yankees, who are going nowhere and are just as old as the Mets were last week, stood pat. Cole ain’t getting younger. Maybe Cohen isn’t afraid of bad press if it’s the right thing to do, but Cashman/Steinbrenner are? Dunno but it’s bizarre.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Why does Scherzer care? He gone.
branderson925
Classic loser franchise. You love to see it.
BCleveland3381
This just sounds like stuff a GM says to get a player to waive his no trade clause. They may not have a 350 million dollar payroll but I doubt the Mets aren’t spending to fill needs this offseason.
Say Hey Now Kid
This is how Cohen should have approached the team from the get-go but thought his money could get him anything. Lesson learned I hope.
Unfortunately they’ve painted themselves in a corner and only have a few options for a retool. I hate to say it but I think they have to trade Alonso instead of extending and go from there.
They should still pursue Ohtani but I doubt he wants near this mess
Simm
I think this is the right direction to go for the Mets. Though if they stay the course which I’m not sure they will then they won’t be ready to contend in 25.
It’s easy to go we will have this guy and this guy coming up but they are prospects and prospects fail more often then they succeed.
If the Mets really want to speed up this rebuild then I think that cohen is going to need to spend more money on selling players. They should trade Alonso, pay and trade Linder and others.
Other wise they will be an aging team again with the players they have in two years. Maybe they fill a spot or two in the process from minor leaguers.
They won’t have a single pitcher outside of senga. So they will be out buying an entire new pitching staff. Plus another 3-4 bats. It takes awhile to build a team through the farm. They have some pieces perhaps but not nearly enough coming to turn it back around in 25 without spending another 350m.
So they should keep trading and buy guys down to get more prospects.
kodion
Just curious: Where would the Mets’ “dead money” rank as a team payroll?
snakebyte32
Oh I have one for the conspiracy theorists out there. What if Scherzer was asked to deliver this message to the media and told something else in private. Like “Listen bud we know you are having a bit of a rough year to your standards but why not take this trade and then opt out in the offseason and we will pay you what we owe you and tack on one more year.” Then they would only be paying this years salaries, haul in some prospects and be a better team next year when he comes back. It would be like paying cash for prospects that would not be available for cash alone. Yeah probably not what is going to happen and MLB would need to look into this if it happens, but it could happen couldn’t it?
SDBraves
I believe one of the stipulations to the trade was that Scherzer had to already opt in to the next year.
waldfee
Quote: “… Cohen wanted to field a consistent contender with the resources to acquire premium free agents or trade targets, but largely fueled by star talent developed by the Mets’ own farm system.”
In plain English: Cohen intends to run a big market team with a cheap small market philosophy, fleece gullible fans and net the difference.
Maximum profit has always been these oligarchs’ only objective in the billionaires’ welfare enterprise, called MLB.
JoeBrady
In plain English: Cohen intends to run a big market team with a cheap small market philosophy
=============================
Nothing personal, but that is pure idiocy. Cohen spent more on payroll than any sports owner in history. You sound like one of those idiotic RS fans that think we have a small payroll.
raisinsss
@wald
All of this is wrong. Please stop
dankyank
A retool won’t work. The Mets have been stuck in a middle ground for years of attempting high profile trades and signings to compliment a homegrown core. This year’s crop of youngsters has failed to backup the rotation or provide offense off the bench.
Two years just gives Cohen enough time to import a handful of prospects ahead of the next round of veteran acquisitions. In other words, they get to circumvent the hard work of organizational development.
All this does is further lock the team into the boom and bust cycle that has been their defining characteristic since the late ’90s.
Pads Fans
They already got those prospects in the trades this season.
CO Guardening
I could be wrong, but given the state of the team and their future, spending 34mil a year on Lindor seems like a huge mistake. Would he have gotten even close to 30$mil from anyone else?
flamingbagofpoop
You are not wrong.
Pads Fans
You are wrong. Yes, he would have gotten more than $30 million. He had the highest WAR last season and is in the top 3 this season among SS. As we have seen, top shortstops get paid and paid big.
BaseballisLife
Scherzer is the cancer the Mets should be glad they excised.
metman
have any of the players said that
Robrock30
Lol Mets,
Where’s the pitching in the Organization? All of these moves and no pitching acquired.
The Mets have no development infrastructure either. Except for Alvarez their ML positional prospects ( looking at you Baty, Vientos & Mauricio ) can’t play their positions.
With the exception of Seth Lugo who they let go they haven’t developed any pitching. Dave Peterson, Tylor Megill, Jose Butto come on down lol. Mets fans come watch this mess and Dan Vogelbach who wasn’t traded and pay $ 50 for parking LMAO.
Pads Fans
Cohen has spent more on player development personnel and infrastructure in the last 2 years than he did on Scherzer.
Baty’s biggest issue so far is not playing 3B. Its hitting MLB pitching. He hasn’t gotten enough playing time to even see how good or bad his defense will be. The sample size is too small.
Mauricio has no shot at playing SS in the majors for a very long time with Lindor there and that is why the Mets have him playing 2B and LF more often than not this season. If you can hit, and he can, the team will find you a sot on the field. That spot will likely be LF and DH this coming season with Vogelbach gone in FA.
What exactly do you think the Mets could get for Vogelbach in trade? Saying he should have been traded is a pretty stupid take when he has no trade value.
mrpadre19
So they are NOT in on Ohtani then this offseason.
Good too now.
Robrock30
Strange but True the 2023 Mets are the largest disaster in MLB History based on Payroll and Bloated Expectations wasting a ton of $ and everyone’s time and no one has been fired. Maybe the circus is more popular than I realized.
Can’t make this stuff up lol
Doral Silverthorn
lolMets
norcalblue
Max has every right I suppose to disclose this private conversation he had with Eppler. That said, what’s the point? Does throwing Cohen, Eppler and the Mets under the bus like this somehow justify his openness to a trade? Is he angry because the Mets didn’t double down, trade even more prospects for available, trade deadline, targets and try and make a run at a playoff spot this year? Is he just annoyed because he hast to move his family to Texas?
The bottom line, is that he and other players on the team this year did not perform as expected and difficult decisions have to be made. Financial decisions as well as strategic player, personnel, decisions. I guess as a player he feels he has no responsibility to respect that it’s just all about him. Always is and always will be.
I am not a Mets fan and I’m not really impacted by their difficulties. Still, I do have some sympathy for their well-intentioned, but unfortunate plight.
I have great respect for Max as a player. He is a warrior, but he is also really incapable of seeing how he is a part of some thing bigger.
What goes around comes around on someday someone will probably reveal a conversation that max has shared that may not be flattering for his legacy.
websoulsurfer
Does anyone seriously believe “Sour Grapes” Scherzer? “It was only rosin”. “I swear on my children.” He doesn’t ever lie. Only every time he opens his mouth.
Everything is always about Max and never about the good of the team. Remember when he couldn’t take the ball for the Dodgers because his arm was tired?
This guy was such a blight on the Mets clubhouse that Cohen PAID to have him gone. Having him and Pham gone makes them a better team.
Cohen paid money for him and Verlander to go away and saved money in the end run because of the CBT tax savings.
Watch what the Mets do this coming offseason when there will be multiple younger, better, AND cheaper FA starters on the market.
yankeemanuno23
I give the Mets front office & owners some credit for making the moves NOW vs waiting & keeping. Getting better w youth, unlike the dumb Yankees Mgmt who have dead wood and nothing to offer outside of Judge, Cole, Volpe. As a lifelong NYY fan it’s a tough swallow.
PSUMetsFan
Slightly different topic, but I don’t know if I trust our minor league talent development people in the organization. Maybe these prospects we’re accumulating are great, but the Mets seem to have a bad recent track record of developing our blue chip prospects, and this has been the case across multiple owners, general managers, and managers:
For example, since 2003 the Mets have drafted 25 players in the 1st round. Of those, only 3 of them have a career WAR of 10 or more: Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo, and Michael Fulmer (who never played in the majors for us).
– 3 of them the jury is still out on but they are trending down (Brett Baty, David Peterson, Jarred Kelenic)
– 3 of them never made the Majors (Nathan Vineyard, Bradley Holt, Reece Havens)
– 4 of them never panned out in a big way with any team (Eddie Kunz, Kevin Plawecki, Gavin Cecchini, Dominic Smith)
– 4 of them were trade bait to other teams but never really developed (Lastings Milledge, Phillip Humber, Anthony Kay, Justin Dunn)
– 2 of them were decent but never really lived up to their 1st round potential (Mike Pelfrey, Ike Davis)
– 1 of them had bad luck and injuries really sapped them of their talent (Matt Harvey)
I haven’t done a deep dive into other teams enough to know whether the Mets are better or worse than the average team at turning their 1st round picks into good players, but this seems like a pretty low rate.
Pads Fans
How many of those were drafted or developed from 2021 to today?
JackStrawb
Keep in mind Pete Crow-Armstrong, dealt away for the pleasure of two months of Javy (Thumbs Down) Baez’s company. PCA is now #28 among MLB prospects.
For the Cubs.
MarlinsFanBase
2025? I guess certain Mets fans won’t be returning until the 2024-25 offseason.
Have a nice vacation to you all…especially @CanoSucks. See you all in a year and a half.
Pads Fans
We will see them all in the offseason when Eppler signs several cheaper FA like Yamamoto and one of the other FA starting pitchers and makes some trades from his prospect depth to fill the 2 or 3 spots he has to fill like DH and LF.
carllafong
Eppler is a horrible GM and worse at assessing talent. He has never accomplished even a .500 winning season. And this ensures that tradition continues next season. It’s preposterous.
raisinsss
Great point!
Would you might crunching the win % numbers for 2022? Let’s see if you’re right about the “winning season” statement.
Pads Fans
The Mets won 101 games last season. That is better than .500
JackStrawb
Aside from the .500 season error, yes
But that Cohen somehow wants him here next year doesn’t mean a serious PBOPs won’t reduce Eppler’s role to managing paperwork and the like.
JackStrawb
“That said, whether Stearns or someone else is the new president, it would make sense that the Mets gives the new hire at least a year to fully assess the organization,”
—That’s not how it works. A PBOPs or GM will come in knowing a great deal about the talent in the organization in management, coaching, and analytics, in addition to players at every level, and he’ll know he’s been a target for a while before he’s hired, during which time he wasn’t catching up on back issues of Road and Track.
If your top hires need a year to ‘fully assess the organization,’ you hired the wrong guys. Do you really think, say, Stearns or any other solid candidate is going to not be able to figure out October’s decisions in October, November’s in November…. not be able to figure out where the organization’s going to go after an initial meeting with ownership? Or that a week after being signed and going back and forth with ownership and what the options are he’s going to be mystified wrt which FAs to go after?