Justin Verlander is back in Houston. The Astros re-acquired the defending Cy Young winner and cash for outfield prospects Drew Gilbert and Ryan Clifford. Houston designated infielder Joe Perez for assignment in a corresponding 40-man move.
The Mets are paying a combined $35MM of Verlander’s 2023-24 salary. They’d pay half of his $35MM salary in 2025 if his option vests. In all, they’re paying as much as $52.5MM of the nearly $93MM that could still be paid out on his deal, pending that option.
Verlander, 40, was with the Astros from 2017-22 and departed as a free agent this offseason to sign for a record-tying annual value in Queens. His two-year, $86.666MM contract tied his former Tigers teammate Max Scherzer’s $43.333MM AAV on a three-year deal with the Mets, but the reunion between the two future Hall of Famers will only prove to last a few months before being spun into a rivalry. The Mets shipped Scherzer to the Rangers on Saturday and will now send Verlander to Texas’ top division rival.
The 2023 season began on a sour note for Verlander, who missed the first five weeks of the year after suffering a strained teres major near the end of spring training. He’s in the midst of yet another strong season, though his performance in 2023 isn’t to the same level as it was in 2022, when he stunned the baseball world by capturing his third Cy Young Award as a 39-year-old in his first season back from Tommy John surgery. Verlander logged a ridiculous 1.75 ERA with a 27.8% strikeout rate and 4.4% walk rate in 175 innings last season. He’s pitched to a 3.15 ERA with a 21% strikeout rate and 8% walk rate in 96 innings this year, and seen slight steps back in his average fastball (from 95.1 mph to 94.6mph), swinging-strike rate (11.6% to 10%) and opponents’ chase rate (36.9% to 35%).
That said, even if Verlander’s overall season numbers aren’t quite as dominant as in 2022, there’s little doubt that he’s a major upgrade to an Astros staff that has lost right-handers Lance McCullers Jr. and Luis Garcia for the season. Righty Cristian Javier also hit a wall recently and has been struggling, and the ’Stros lost right-hander Jose Urquidy for three months due to shoulder troubles. Verlander’s return will add one of the most talented arms of the entire generation back to the front of a staff, where he’ll join Cy Young candidate Framber Valdez, standout rookie Hunter Brown, Javier and rookie J.P. France. When Urquidy returns in the near future, it’s possible the Astros will go to a six-man rotation to help monitor the workloads of Brown and France.
For the Mets, Verlander becomes the fourth notable veteran they’ve shipped out in the past week, joining Scherzer, David Robertson and Mark Canha. The Mets have picked up a strong package of prospects in doing so but also waved a white flag on a season in which their $350MM+ payroll was expected to make them legitimate World Series contenders. They’ve also completely wiped out their rotation, which now consists of Jose Quintana (a trade candidate himself), Carlos Carrasco, Kodai Senga and David Peterson. Tylor Megill and Joey Lucchesi are candidates to step back into the starting staff.
The only near-term pitching prospect the Mets added in that slate of deals was righty Justin Jarvis, who came over from the Brewers and had been ranked near the back of their top 30 prospects on most publications. Given Carrasco’s status as a pending free agent and the unproven nature of Peterson, Megill and Lucchesi, they’ll head into the offseason with an enormous amount of work to do in rounding out the rotation. It’s a deep crop of free agents, headlined by names like Shohei Ohtani, Lucas Giolito, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Julio Urias, Sonny Gray, Jordan Montgomery, Marcus Stroman and NPB ace Yoshinobu Yamamoto. If the Mets plan to compete in 2024 — hardly a sure thing in the wake of their deadline activity — they’ll need to aggressively pursue rotation additions via either that free-agent market or the trade market.
The acquisition of Gilbert and Clifford could both help if the Mets choose the latter. While it’s certainly possible that both newly acquired outfielders fit into the long-term puzzle, that’s no sure thing — particularly for a team so willing to splash around in free agency. Brandon Nimmo is already signed for another seven years, so there are only two real long-term vacancies in the outfield anyhow.
Gilbert, 22, is the more advanced of the two prospects and the one who’s garnered more national fanfare. The Astros’ top pick in the 2022 draft, he’s already ascended to the Double-A level in his first full season of pro ball. The University of Tennessee standout laid waste to High-A pitching early in the season, slashing .360/.421/.686 in 95 plate appearances before an aggressive promotion to Double-A. He’s been a bit below average in terms of his overall output there, batting .241/.342/.371 in 264 plate appearances. However, Gilbert has also shown an advanced approach, walking in 12.5% of his Double-A plate appearances against a lower-than-average 17.5% strikeout rate.
MLB.com ranks Gilbert as the game’s No. 68 overall prospect, and FanGraphs has him at No. 49 on their list. Both reports give Gilbert a chance to be in the big leagues by next season, touting his plus speed, plus arm, great approach at the plate and growing power. He has a chance to stick in center field, perhaps pushing Nimmo to a corner if the veteran’s defense slips as he ages into his mid-30s. If not, Gilbert projects as a plus defender in an outfield corner. Both FanGraphs and MLB.com make note of his fiery personality, which could win over hometown fans while grating on opponents.
As for Clifford, he was taken ten rounds later in the same 2022 draft not for lack of talent but for a strong commitment to Vanderbilt University. The Mets convinced him to sign rather than attend college, offering him a huge $1.25MM bonus in the 11th round after most teams had passed assuming he’d head to school.
Jim Callis of MLB.com tweets that Gilbert and Clifford would’ve been his No. 1 and No. 2 Astros prospects, respectively, on the reranking of their system he’s set to publish following the deadline. Clifford hit just .247 but posted a .426 OBP in 101 plate appearances during his pro debut last year, and his rate stats in 2023 are outstanding: .291/.399/.520 in 371 plate appearances between Class-A and High-A. He’s slugged 18 home runs and 16 doubles, walking at a hearty 12.4% clip against a 24% strikeout rate.
FanGraphs had already bumped Clifford to the Astros’ No. 2 prospect — he’s now eighth in the Mets’ system on their rankings — crediting him with the potential to grow into 70-grade raw power. He’s a corner outfielder/first baseman with below-average speed and above-average arm strength. So long as his bat and overall offensive approach continue on their current trajectories, he could be in an outfield corner with occasional first base and DH time for the Mets at some point in 2025.
The Mets have done a nice job adding to their system, acquiring at least a pair of top-100-caliber prospects (Acuna, Gilbert) and another (Clifford) who could get there before long. They’ve paid a steep price to do so, however, gutting their 2023 roster and paying down close to $71MM on the Scherzer and Verlander deals alone. They’ve also saved just over $86MM on the pair of trades, including both salary and luxury tax penalties. In the event Verlander’s option vests and he exercises it, those savings would jump to more than $119MM (while the dead money they’d paid down would rise to more than $86MM).
The Mets are so far into the fourth and final tier of luxury penalization, that short of getting a team to take on the entirety of the Verlander and Scherzer contracts, there was no real way of ducking back underneath that line. The Astros, meanwhile, have received enough cash from the Mets that they’ll likely come in under the luxury line. Roster Resource had them exceeding the $233MM first-tier threshold by only a margin of $1.7MM even when assuming the full freight of Verlander’s remaining money; that clearly won’t be the case now. That would’ve been the first time Houston had crossed into luxury territory, but they’ll now have Verlander for a total of $22.777MM for the remainder of this season and next — plus an additional $17.5MM in 2025 if that option vests and he picks it up.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported the Astros were acquiring Verlander for two prospects. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com first reported Gilbert’s inclusion, while Nightengale was first on Clifford. Joel Sherman of the New York Post was first with the specific financial breakdown.
This sparks joy!
Love the moves my Rangers made but man, this is depressing
For the sake of the rivalry I love the fact both of us are going hard!
TWSS.
The Houston Astros are going to the World Series!!
“In all, they’re paying as much as $52.5MM of the nearly $93MM that could still be paid out on his deal”.
So basically the Astros just signed Justin Verlander for $40M for 2.3 seasons.
Yes, 2 prospects are going the other way, but WTF is Steve Cohen doing. Every rival club should be irate, esp those in the AL West. Astros just got JV for a 50% discount.
Nah no worries. Isn’t Verlander 50 years old now? Let’s Go Rangers!
Hey if the Yankees can’t win why not jump on the next bandwagon right? Haha still remember when you tried convincing people you were Aaron Judge. Stuff like that just follows you around.
Isn’t max 50 years old as well lmfao like just NO ….that was a fail bro
When you have Kate Upton at home you have a veritable fountain of youth…
Nah she’ll be staying at home in NY for a while, with a better man(me)
I’m not Aaron Judge?
Cincy had better prospects but Kate doesn’t like Skyline Chili…
Are you for real? Who doesn’t like Skyline
Biggest disappointment when I visited Cincinnati was Skyline.
I like(d) Frisch’s.
3 way with oyster crackers. You can’t go wrong bud
Chili from north of the Red River is suspect.
Nothing better then a good 3-way
Frisch’s Big Boy was all right.
It’s all in the preparation.
5 way chili bowl here. Lots of hot sauce.
Big time on the 5-way.
Make sure that bathroom Nutone fan is in proper working order.
It sucks bro
I’m sure it’s either an acquired taste like Krystal or you’re just born into liking it.
Agreed @tcs. Told my friend that it was neat seeing the trade given his history in Houston and “Oh C#@p” given the Astros can possibly take the division lead tonight.
This is the Mets sticking it to the Braves by giving a power arm to each of the Braves’ likely World Series opponents.
But did they really?
Max could not answer the bell two years ago when he sat out the Dodgers getting spanked by the Braves in the NLCS. Justin is liable to have his arm fall off by October
Curly Was The Smart Stooge;
Mr. Cohen is paying somewhere between $52.5MM and nearly $93MM to get 2 prospects. Now….
THAT’S funny!
LOL
He’s just going to write it off his taxes somehow.
So the Braves could even the score and land Alcantara. He’s younger, healthier, goes 7 or 8 innings and costs half as much. Two top pitching prospects and a middle infielder ought to do it.
So total Mr. Cohen is spending between $88MM and $123.5MM for 3 prospects.
The man is amazing.
“Uncle Stevie’s beautiful money”!
Putting the $ in Met$.
Tell him I’ll fly in and sweep the floor in his office for a measly $125,000.
Only if you do it naked, Samuel.
How about a Met$ jersey and no pants?
From all the games I’ve watched, the Braves typically hit Scherzer really well.
Actually, they normally hit some of the best pitchers really well. Oddly enough, it is the rookies that they tend to have trouble hitting.
Even in the playoffs, I would much rather the Braves face Scherzer than a guy like Chase Silseth…lol
Idk if it is a lack of a scouting report, no one being able to provide any insight because no one has faced him before, or what..
Whatever the reason, the first time through the order they make rookies look like Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux.
They get a little better the second time through the order, but even still they have a hard time putting together quality at-bats..
Now, if the manager is dumb enough to leave them in the game for their lineup to face that pitcher for a third time, then they finally begin to hit him and hit him hard, but usually during the 2nd time through the order the manager sees the Braves making adjustments, sees then making louder contact more often, and realizes pretty quickly that the Braves are beginning to figure his pitcher out..
Still though, 4-5 scoreless or one run innings in the playoffs is a manager’s dream, especially facing an offense like the Braves…
Idk, it is just weird, you’d think the rookie would be intimidated, really nervous, or you’d think his adrenaline might be pumping extremely high causing him to miss his spots, but for whatever reason rookie pitchers have shown they typically hold the advantage over the Braves.
They have always struggled against rookie pitchers, and their pitchers have seemingly always struggled against defensive first, backup catchers…lol They crush Braves pitching somehow, idk, but more often than not, they do really well against Atlanta…!?!?
I am happy that the Braves did not get him.
indeed
The Braves were never going to get him
Look who V had his worst outing against. 🙂
Like the Braves have anything to offer.
Agreed @Still in talks, a team that is in 1st place by 11 games has nothing to offer.
In reality, the Braves should have traded baseball acumen and advice alone for Verlander & the Mets would have come up on top…
You think the Braves would trade from the roster? Hahahah. Learn something new everyday.
The Braves could easily acquire alot of the available starters, but they aren’t so short sighted.
They aren’t trading away several years of control of a solid hitting 2B, in Vaughn Grissom nor several years of control of a 20yr old top100 prospect in AJ Smith-Shawver just for a one year or one and a half year rental, and especially not for one that isn’t even all that great.
Of course it’s all a moot point, the Mets would never make a trade with the Braves unless they were going to clearly win the trade, and AA isn’t that stupid…
Anyways, the point is, as hard as it is for you to believe, regardless of how many quality players they’ve called up, the Braves STILL have a few big trade chips left that they could use as the centerpieces of most “big” deals…
That’s not to say they couldn’t be outbid, but to act like Grissom and AJSS are nothing just shows that you’re either just extremely biased, or you just aren’t educated on the Braves system…Either way, you’re clearly wrong…
The fact that they only have two coveted pieces just proves my point that they don’t have the capital to land a Verlander.
It has nothing to do with being short sighted, the Braves operate with a philosophy of “win at all costs.” That philosophy is what got them to to win the WS when AA took over.
You now nothing about the Braves organization. So just shut your trap and stop exposing your ignorance.
I am happy that the Braves did not get him.
======================
That’s a little sad. It’s like resenting a former g/f or b/f who doesn’t even remember you.
Because nobody wants one of the two reigning cy young winners
Astros’ window slams shut in 2025. Numbers 1 and 4 prospects guarantees this
Is Click having a good laugh right now?
Astros now have one of the worst farm systems in the majors. Of course missing out the top2 picks of the 2020 and 2021 drafts as a punishment of the sign stealing scandal is showing now but also years of drafting low and buying every deadline.
But I wouldn’t write them off, their player dev is very good and they might find some guys again soon
We gave up 2 marquee talents but our system while lousy is deepest in ofers.
The Astros 2021 Draft is on pace to be one of the most productive the last decade for the Team.
Productive for…the Mets? Lol
It’s only a “fair” trade if Houston wins it all again. Sheesh. What a dinosaur they got back…but lol at NYM for paying half
Good thing rankings don’t matter when the Astros just keep turning out mlb players. Where was urquidy on these rankings? How about Garcia? Stros have one of the best front offices their window will extend past 2030
You say that like urquidy has been good in recent years… and garcia was terrible before the injury this year
A year they made him change his stance. Let’s just forget he finished in Roy voting
He’s a good sp, but no more than a number 3 on most teams… which is fine, just not what some make him out to be on here.
And many before the year were anointing javier a sure fire ace, and we see thats not happening yet either. Probably some day, but not yet.
Javier hit a bump for sure but he still has an ace profile
Agree, I’m still high on him longer term, i just thought some jumped the gun on him being elite already.
Who cares if they get back to the WS. That would be 7 straight ALCS’S. Prospects are just that.
That dino is pitching 1.75 the last 7 games.
y’all keep hoping that, but dude that was our 21st ranked coming into this season, a 14th round draft pick, is now 7-3 with a 2.85 ERA in 91 innings for us.
Flags fly forever
If they win it all. If they don’t, then yes I agree you are right, but I’d rather someone go for it
What if its a White Flag? Cohen is still paying over 50% of the salaries he traded away (plus the penalties). Maybe they will make it an event, and sell tickets to its hoisting.
Right. Our entire starting rotation except JV is under 30, and Alvarez/Tucker are 26. McCormick and Peña are just as young. Diaz is a great young catcher. You really sure about that?
Stroh, people talk out their rear ends when they criticize the Astros’ system. OF Luis Baez has the most upside of any OF in the Astros system (including the players traded today). Mets wanted him over OF Ryan Clifford. Both Clifford and Gilbert project as corner OFers in the big leagues.
At AA, slick fielding CF Kenedy Corona played more games at CF than Gilbert.
Clifford’s probably going to end up at 1B (he played most of his games there this season).
Astros #28th ranked prospect SS Shay Whitcomb is on 30+/100 RBI pace at AAA.
Perhaps the best all around prospect in the Astros system is OF/IF Joey Loperfido – he is a 20 HR/20 SB player. Great defensively at ALL IF/OF positions.
Astros acquired both JV and Graveman without giving up any of their top pitching prospects. Astros traded 3 prospects at positions where the Astros have the most organizational depth.
The fact that the Astros held onto their pitching prospects and best true CF prospects while acquiring both JV and Graveman is phenomenal.
Bring back Cespedes!!! DFA Vogelbach!!!
Get little Cespedes from the Sox. You can trade Vogue for him.
Prefer the OG but… Yoelkis also > than Vogelbach
The Mets next year are better off just signing everyone to a 1 year contract at way way higher AAV than their worth. That way when they have to trade them away next July it’s only for the year not multiple years.
The Houston Astros are going to the World Series!!
I hope so, Lou
Hopefully he can leave Kate in NY, all 4 me!!!
lol mets
Why exactly? They signed him for just money then traded him for two prospects.
lol mets
lol mets
I think hes insulting the Mets as a whole and not the individual signing. having Max and Justin and selling off in 3 months makes them more of a joke than if they never had them in the first place. Like a lower level Trout/Ohtani/LAA
How exactly? They failed as a team this year, sure, but they turned Scherzer and Verlander into top prospects. I don’t understand how it would’ve been better for them to not sign either. This benefits them in the long run.
@Sahmrock
I think perspective is key, people see things the way they want to see it. It’s hard to fight ignorance.
I don’t understand how it would’ve been better for them to not sign either.
==============================
If money doesn’t matter, then prospects don’t matter. If the NYMs continue to spend $385M, that’s like 18 $20M players, plus fringes. If you sign 18 $20M players, 1-2 fringy top-100 prospects makes no difference.
Not only is your assessment of their payroll distribution incorrect (they have ten guys making $1M or less), but for some reason adding young, controllable talent is a bad thing? That’s illogical. If either Acuna or Gilbert can be an everyday regular, they can spend money elsewhere. It’s never bad to have more young talent.
Basically the Mets BOUGHT the PROSPECTS and the Astros & Rangers are SIGNING Max and JV for 1+ yrs at a reduced (for the acquiring team) cost.
It’s not a bad thing, so long as you do not run out of money. But if you never run out of money, then prospects are superfluous.
They will have paid like $100m for the prospects they got back from Texas and Houston. So even claiming “they got prospects” is categorically crazy.
Didn’t the Mets GM or baseball ops president come from the Angels? The guys track record seems like he is probably more fit for bagging groceries or working a fast food drive thru? How do these front office guys keep brainwashing owners?
Exactly
But Acuna and Gilbert are already costing the Mets 90M over this season and the next 2. So it’s not like they are low cost players
Mets paid over $45MM for MS and JV to play for the competition, and could be more in the future should JV’s option vest. That money could have been used so much better. I don’t care what prospects came back. This was a mistake of massive proportion.
Prospects are absolutely necessary at the trade deadline. It would be a very very rare occurrence for any team to win it all with the exact same guys they started with on opening day. Injuries and underperformance happen to every team. Pretty much always have to add a player or two to get there. Can’t do that if you have no prospects.
I bet they did make some money though off those names before the season really started
Say what you will but the Mets are in a much better place moving forward than they were last week. I applaud what they just pulled off, 3 good to great prospects for 2 pitchers over 40 who wouldn’t bring in a World Series this year. Well done Mets
Please layout how you would’ve handled this trade deadline in you ran the Mets. Cohen money isn’t normal money he doesn’t care about paying the tax money. He just bought 3 top 100 prospects and flipped 2 40 year old pitchers. That’s called good roster management when money isn’t a factor
And then when they’re actually contributing they’ll each cost under $1M and NYM can sign new free agents to supplement them.
I think the “lolMets” move would have been to do just what Scherzer suggested. To dump more money next off season in free agents. I think what the Mets are doing now is the right approach.
Next year, trade Alonzo if they can’t resign him long term, trade McNeil and Nimmo even if you have to eat some of their contract.
Start ’25 with Acuna and Gilbert and maybe Clifford at 1B if Alonzo is gone.
They signed him to win a championship. They traded him after 4 months.
They got Luisangel Acuna and Drew Gilbert out of it. They failed to win, but both trades were great.
Gilbert is a fiery kid. Mets fans will love him when he joins the big club. I agree with your assessment. Max became a malcontent in a hurry, and would have been a clubhouse cancer, as well as the HRs given up so frequently this year. The Mets truthfully wouldn’t have contended for the WC this year.
Let’s not forget Ryan Clifford who’s no slouch
Exactly. Money is no object to Cohen and if the Mets are out this year, may as well buy some prospects.
I think this is the correct take. Two high upside prospects for a 40 year old and cash is better than holding a rental (Stroman/Bellinger) for a 20% chance at the playoffs and one supplemental pick at 35.
I can still hear some of the more extreme Met fans pounding their chests before the season began, like King Kong. “I told you so” has no effect. Sitting in front of my computer with a beer watching as the Mets disintergrate on MLBTR should teach a lesson to someone. Back your team but refrain from denigrating comments about others. If something stinks in the room, check yourself first, think of the shame when you find out its you.
20% playoff chances > 0%. And a healthy severing of disappointment that comes with the shortest competitive window slamming shut. After all that anticipation… Bam!!! Everything must go.
Lolmets
Until we know how much money went back and the prospects they got, no way to judge the deal.
This will be interesting to see how the money plays out. I can’t recall a trade deadline other than 1976 when the financial issues were this impactful. It’s funny to me how back then it was bad for baseball and Bowie Kuhn stuck Charlie Finley and even forced the A’s to play short handed. Now it’s just Monopoly money for some.
I find it even funnier that you don’t see the comedy in the lolmets right now.
I wish my team had an owner who went out and signed top FAs that could be flipped for top prospects if the team failed. I have more faith in them to win a title sooner than the M’s, who I root for.
This is exactly my feeling as a Giants fan. An owner spending their money, then being able to pull the rip cord and make value of that money is a good thing. The haters will hate because the team they root for isn’t doing it and they don’t understand, but I get it
You are on a one man mission to absolve the Mets of failing to “Buy a Championship.” keep at it sir
The Mets are doing what every losing team does. They are selling off assets.
Meanwhile, what are you doing for 2024 without a rotation?
How much are ticket prices going up next year?
What’s hard to understand? By trading away Scherzer and Verlander they are not only giving up on this year, they don’t have a rotation for next year either. Prospects are never guaranteed, Could be multiple years of sucking with the highest payroll. The mets are not very good at developing pitching after Sandy, and that’s not something you can simply fix by mindless spending because SP will be old and expensive when they reach FA. Even Cohen has a limit, he has mentioned multiple times that the goal is consistent success and building a good farm like the dodgers. Will they ever get there.
KS, they’ve sucked while having the highest payroll exactly once, this year. They’re shedding a ton of payroll, albeit at Cohen’s expense so who cares? Senga is a solid 2/3 and Quintana a solid 3. They can sign Yamamoto and Snell and have a pretty good starting 4, and both could be had for close to what JV was owed. The kids they got in both trades look like they’ll be ready by AS break, latest, next year. Yes, this year was a disaster but with an owner willing to spend (sometimes like a drunken sailor), and eat money when he wakes up from what he did, provides some level of solace to Mets fans.
Except they won’t be signing high profile guys this FA and are basically entering rebuild. Eppler said the Mets will be on smaller deals and the realistic outlook is 2026. They were also open to trade Alonso, Quintana and Brooks Raley, that’s not tanking for just one year. It’s great to have an owner willing to spend, but everyone has a limit, especially Cohen gets more in touch with reality now, not to mention that going over luxury tax year after year affects draft picks and bonus pool.
That Cubs win 108 is once in 108 years? The Mets at least won it twice and made it three other times since 1962, so I’d hold off on the LOLs.
lol mets
LOLCubsWin
The last 108 years makes no difference, The Mets are a absolute joke right now.
“The Mets are a absolute joke right now.”
They won 101 games last year, now have one of the best farm systems in the game, and have an owner willing to spend whatever it takes to build a winner (and who also isn’t so stubborn that he can’t admit when he’s wrong). What exactly is an ‘absolute joke’ about that? As a fan, I’m excited. Way more excited than if the Wilpons were still running the team.
More exciting than the Wilpons is a rather low bar.
One way of building a team down, one million more to go!
They just paid 53 million for prospects, majority of which won’t turn into players with the Mets since they prefer to overpay veterans for past seasons performance. Team aren’t winning these days by spending 400 million dollars, so watching this blow up as almost any fan of baseball saw coming makes them a joke right now, idc what comes of the prospects, or the cubs 108 years. RIGHT NOW…the Mets are a joke lol
“They won 101 games last year” while choking away the NL East and then getting smoked in the Wild Card round. Now it’s LOL moment after LOL moment, so much that even British sports sites know the meaning of LOLmets.
I’m sorry to say this but the Cubs are to White Sox as the Yankees are to Mets.. Cubs are pitiful, but Mets/Sox are the baseball step dads of their respective cities.
Every LOL moment keeps the spotlight in New York off the Yankees’ own collapse (and the Bombers are about to go down again to the devil-may-care Rays).
It’s both lol Mets and “Dang, wish my owner could spin a bad season into multiple top prospects because $$$ no object.”
@AlistairC: Yours is the correct take, imo. They tried and failed, but they at least have the ability to admit they failed. They’ve turned a mediocre farm system into a top 10 (maybe higher) system and all it cost was a few million out of their billionaire owner’s pocket. And they can spend again this offseason.
I’m disappointed that the season is going down the tubes. I’m not sure how many games I can stomach this year watching Peterson, McGill, Carassco and I’m guessing Lucheesi will start. But, this year’s Mets were going nowhere fast. This is the smart move.
@AlistaitrC – It didn’t cost them anything. That money was already spent. It’s a sunk cost. Let’s say they kept Scherzer. He was owed $15 million for the rest of the year and he will make $43 million next year when he excercised his player option to stay. The trade netted them a top prospect, and recouped money that can be spent on the open market next year for another pitcher like Nola or Urias.
lol mets
Nah, it’s just LOL Mets until one year they might get lucky with one of the sprees.
LOLCubsWinEver
Meanwhile, the Cubs foolishly believe they can suddenly compete and they’ll lose Stroman and Bellinger for absolutely nothing.
Lolcubs
Knowing how the Mets operate lately, they will take that top 10 farm system, and the prospects they acquire, and trade them for high priced vets on bad contracts.
Cohen’s Mets have not done that yet, Jusajaysfan. What makes you think they will now?
Have you ever heard of the White Flag trade? That’s the situation the Cubs are in.
Sounds like jealousy to me. Don’t you wish the Cubs had someone to trade to get this kind of return? Hmmnn … of course, of course you do.
You mean like PCA..
Yep. You had it then, we have it now. No doubt PCA will be very good for you. I hope he is!
LOL Cubs.
What was the return on Cody Bellinger?
::crickets::
LOL!
Maybe that’s because the Cubs are still competing and the NYMs have thrown in the towel?
Competing for what? Kings of Mediocrity? Do you really think they have a chance against ANY contender?
The Cubs are a feel good .500 team that were predicted to keep the Pirates warm at the bottom of the division. Don’t get delusional and think a parade is coming to Hipsterville anytime soon.
FYI…. look at the Wild Card Standings…. Cubs are 3.5 back, Mets are 6 back. Perspective…..
Such an odd reaction. The Cubs are taking a chance they can make the playoffs, while the Mets are waving the white flag, and you think the Cubs are the ones with the problem?
Realistic expectations are not an odd reaction.
lol mets
Wow a real shocker!
The deal includes his own personal trash can
Yessssss stay mad. You know he doesn’t hit right? Even in the NL…
Lol. It’s a joke. Didn’t mean to trigger you. He’s the one hitting the trash can.
Lol that’s funny. Good retort
Jokes are supposed to be funny…
They have trash cans that make different notes depending on the signs.
RENT FREE
You think it’s gonna stop, because it’s not. They’re cheaters & that’s what they’ll ALWAYS be remembered as. Put that in your juice box & suck it. Ahahaha!
Juice box full of championship rings sorry.
Yep. Cheating winners aren’t winners at all. Toss those ‘ships in the trashcan they were made from.
You’re just sore that your trash team hasn’t won anything in 60 years of futility
Bang-Bang
Rather lose honestly than win dishonestly.
And people like you who keep it going 6 years later (and counting) just show what pitiful lives you have.
In case you missed it the Astros just won another championship last year. As in defending champions
Kudos to the legit ‘ships. Respect is earned, and well earned when the it’s done right.
RENT FREE
Wow! Sucks as a Mariners Fan
Didn’t you destroy JV in the playoffs?
Mariners actually have done some dammage against JV
Fair points, but was enjoying their bleak rotation with all the injuries. This will probably be a beneficial move that will allow their staff more rest and recovery.
Good for them all
Tough ticket to be had , Max vs JV. Division series on the line
Game 7 both pitchers pitched game 5. Both of them come in to try to close out the game. The Tejas Rangers prevail and win the game on a swinging bunt over JVs head.
Scherzer has looked bad in big games the last 2 years.
Yup…hang that slider Max, watch it go yard.
Yes he has , but the networks will play it up. Probably ensure Sunday night matchup
Look forward to hearing how they figured their way through that poison-pill 3rd year…..
the third year is not a problem, I think – but I sure want 15 million back to offset next year.
Houston, we have a huge luxury tax problem here.
As I’ve said over and over , when an mlb owner wants to spend , tax not an issue.
but the problem is, that it IS an issue, always – going over causes all kinds of terrible, cascading problems for sustained winning
but yeah, Crane’s handprints are all over this deal – check out this GREAT article on how things went down in the Grienke deal
si.com/mlb/2019/10/01/houston-astros-zack-greinke-…
I know what you’re saying AHT , but doesn’t it only become an issue for sustained winning when the owner stops spending , or his fellow owners shoot him for causing salaries to go up 🙂
It is just like national deficits are never a problem, until they are a problem. Or bank leverage is never a problem, until it is a problem.
Even you spend $385M, you will always (should) be a competitor. The addition of 1-2 prospects are the deck chairs of the Queen Mary.
Stupid
WOW…………..THE TRADE OF THE DEADLINE……..
Confused. Why not just sign him in the first place?
They weren’t and aren’t willing to pay that amount.
Kinda sounds like they are
They probably didn’t want to spend the cash, but their rotation has been pretty banged up this year. I also thought it was kinda funny he’s back
Probably because they preferred to just wait a half season and let the Mets pay half his salary.
“Probably because they preferred to just wait a half season and let the Mets pay half his salary.”
Bold and stupid move, if you ask me, considering it just cost them two of their best prospects when it could have just cost them money. The owners are wealthy. Would have made more sense to just pay Verlander and keep the prospects.
That depends on the money. Scherzer cost the NYMs maybe $34,000,000. You think a #100 prospect is worth $34 large?
It’s not my money or yours, so who are you to judge?
Those prospects likely aren’t worth the 40 million the Astros can spend in free agency or apply towards resigning Tucker, ect.. Plus the championship window with the current roster remains open..
On the other hand, if you trade for a top pitcher it’s pretty likely he’ll be healthy on August 1st.
If the conversation is about whether to pay Verlander $43M, or pay Verlander $16M and a couple of prospects, I’d prefer the Verlander $16M edition.
Whose money it is makes no difference to me. IMO, the Astros won this easily.
It’s not a question of one team or another “winning” when both accomplish their objectives.
In a vacuum the Astros won it but there’s potential for Gilbert and Clifford to both become above average mlb players. Just as much potential to fizzle out before they even make it, as with all prospects still don’t think the Mets could’ve done better with max and verlander
Drat!
Oh well, I guess Verlander was home sick
Anyway, I want
1.) Dylan Cease
2,.) Jake Burger, Power Bat from the Sox
they would help the O’s!
Thats just what the Orioles need…. a right handed power hitting thirdbaseman that strikes out a ton to hit homers at Camden yards… sarcasm
Despite the Sarcasm
It would not hurt to add a power bat such as Burger’s to the O’s lineup
@Lefty_Orioles_Fan: And you got Jack Flaherty. Oh well.
He was meant to stay an Astro
Astros needed to make a SP move, obviously. Grass ain’t always greener JV! Welcome back lol
Wawaweewa
The focus is on who to credit more than who is going to NY? Lol journalists
lol
Run it back like it’s 2017 (maybe without the aid of some trash receptacle)
RENT FREE
Not really; low-key was hoping they’d win it last season because I wanted to stop hearing about how they were completley fradulant and couldn’t hit without the can when they were very clearly an elite team, with or without it.
And they did yet you make the same old jokes. At least come up with new material
Wasnt really trying to make a joke. I don’t like controversy in baseball, and hope that we can get a good World Series without it.
Welcome back to the juice box Mr. Upton
Please Cease or Eduardo to LA
Uh…where did the Mets starting rotation go? It was here just a minute ago…
It did the Texas two step
WOW! That was good! Bravo!
Much obliged
Good stuff. Now the Dodgers can send a package to the Tigers for Erod and stop holding things up dreaming on Verlander.
T H I S.
Sooooo close to happening too
dude.
Says who?
Honestly I respect the fact the Mets brass was willing to blow up 2023 instead of making a half-cocked attempt at a WC spot
“But he came back”
I think he goes to the HOF as an Astro.
Tiger
My money is on the Boggs route: Tampa Bay Devil Ray.
The Astros’ announcers danced around this deal for the whole game last night. You could hear the hopeful anticipation in their voices. Astros are now armed to run down Texas.
They were taking them down without Verlander. They are much better than Texas.
Based on what ? I’m an Astros fan but take the homer glasses off for a second. Offense the rangers are better. Pitching probably slightly favors the Astros after they get verlander
I hope he didn’t sell his house.
Effectively just traded prospects for money and half a season without Verlander.
Not surprising
Mets fire sale everything must go! Lol
Buy 2 Mets pitchers get a 3rd one free! Don’t delay!
There’s really only 1 pitcher left.
Senga but not an ace and no high end SP in their minors either.
All right Dodgers, plan B.
Could have just signed him in the off-season…
Both Texas teams benefit from Mets self- destruction. Astros had to keep up with Rangers.
They’re a half game out with 3/5 of their starting rotation injured
HOU running circles around NYY. HOU doesn’t even have top MLB prospects
BOOOOOH‼️I hate the Astros‼️
RENT FREE
CRY
BANG A TRASH CAN
Bigger than the defeat at Stalingrad, the Mets fans staggered by this throw in the towel moment, fire the G.M. the cries ring out. He’s the guy that saddled the Angels with Rondon.
10 years from now, JV will be a 4% answer on Immaculate Grid
The Astros top 4 prospects are all lefty hitting outfielders. Would make sense if one of them were involved.
Hell yeah. First time I ever got one of these guesses correct.
Imagine losing him in FA and then having to give up prospects just to get him back…
Imagine getting the current cy young at half price
For 2 and half years at 50% off, and it only costs 2 prospects that were probably never gonna play for you anyway
What a massively disappointing season.it will all feel better when Ohtani goes to Queens
Ohtani wants to play for a consistent winner, and he greatly prefers the West Coast. You’d probably have an easier time convincing him the Mets are located on the West Coast than convincing him the Mets are a winning ball club. No chance he comes to the Mets.
The West coast is overrated,he is probably tired of California.East coast and the Midwest have the best fans
Right because everyone knows those battery throwing Yankee fans are top notch people
$340,000,000+ in payroll and they couldn’t break .500. I think they should invest effort in developing players rather than dollars in free agency.
I guess by the 25th of August your feelings won’t hurt as much
Maybe Dodgers or Angels can talk the White Sox out of Dylan Cease❓
I’m an Astros fan and I cannot get behind this especially if it includes Chas McCormick.
Or JP France/Hunter Brown. France lacks the experience, but he might be better right now than Verlander as far as regular season goes. I’ve been really impressed with what he’s done this season. Thankfully, I’m sure he’s not going back because he’s not considered a top prospect.
I highly doubt Brown would be available in any way.
Whitley and Gilbert?
Turns out I’m good with this move. They’re basically getting JV for about 16 million a year. They didn’t give up anybody that was major league ready.
How much does Verlander save on taxes?
About 9%
Keeping up with the Joneses
I thought it would be funny going from teammates to bitter rivals. And now it’s happening.
Drew Gilbert
Pack your bags, Kate!
Mets playing checkers .. Astros playing chess
Astros could have just signed him for money last offseason. Instead they had to pay one of their top prospects to get him. How is that “chess”?
I would reverse that. Stros gave up huge pieces instead of just paying the cash.
But now paying a lot less than it would have taken in the off season.
Astros vs Braves Round 2 Ding!
Who’s going to pitch next year?
Whoever is willing to take millions to be disappointing.
2 minor leaguers was all saw to start. If that was all why did it not go last night. I was thinking more. But probably is
Not a rebuild
I hope Gilbert is in the package
He is
4 month chumps. Cue Timmy Trumpet. Sad trombone (trumpet).
Two prospects means a good amount of money is going with JV.
I hate to admit it but Mets doing exactly what the Yankees should be doing
I’m happy the Cardinals are stocking the farm by selling players with expiring contracts. Some of those prospects will work out even though most of them won’t work out.
Listening to Heyman is really rough. He’s literally wrong on everything
He reminds me of Ben Stine
Next July they trade Alonso ?
outta trade him now while his value is high IMO.
Agreed
Why would you trade him when his value is so low? He’s having the worst year of his career
218/314/506. All would be new career lows
Edit okay not slugging it was .490 in 2020 but you get my point
Looks like the Battle of Texas is starting to heat up in the AL West
The Mets have to be the biggest clown franchise in all of sports
Except this was smart.
Ohtani can take him off the Mets list there going to rebuild that team
They can afford to sign more pitching next year.
Who are they going to sign that are better than Scherzer & Verlander?
There are many free agents just as good at this point. Scherzer has been league average so far this year. Kudos to Verlander for his Ryan/Johnson like ability to stave off age related decline so far.
Ohtani will never sign with the Mets, Yankees, or Phillies. He will stay on the West Coast
I’m going to be very surprised if he doesn’t sign with the Dodgers. They can afford him and it’s a perfect match.
The Mets (or Yankees for that matter) were never on Ohtani’s list.
The list is short, in no particular order Anaheim, LA, Seattle, San Diego.
It’s been interesting season for the Mets, really curious what they’re going to do in the offseason. They still have a core of players to build around to contend in 2024.
The problem is they have no pitching, especially now. It’s Senga, Quintana, and garbage. And aside from Diaz, the bullpen is wide open as well.
From what I can see, the NYMs 2024 is about $218M plus whatever they pick up in salary on the Verlander trade (let’s call it $240M). They are 20th in offense, and need two outfielders and a DH. And now they probably need 4 SPs.
They now have only four players with a bWAR > 1.3. They need to spend at least $100M more to be competitive. They could be at the point where there are not enough FAs next year to make them a playoff team.
“They need to spend at least $100M more to be competitive.”
They likely will. But who cares how much money it is? We’re fans. It’s Cohen’s money and he’s willing to spend it. Whether it’s $100 million or $500 million, why should I as a fan care?
Because the way you spend money counts. What are the NYMs going to do to make up for the loss of Scherzer & Verlander? Think about it from a different perspective.
Their record is #21,
They just traded probably their two best pitchers.
Explain the new path to relevancy.
Scherzer has not been anywhere near their second best starter. Senga is right there with Verlander as their best pitcher. Scherzer is far behind.
And just like that the Astros are the AL heavyweights again.
Jim Crane is laughing his butt off right now. Not only did he end up getting Verlander for the most important part of the season…..the Mets are paying for it!!
Paying money? Sure. Paying in prospects/your future? Also yes.
And do you remember any of the “prospects” the Astros traded the first time to get him? Did they really damage their future by trading D. Cameron, Franklin Perez, and Jake Rogers? Hmm maybe winning a World Series by trading those three prospects was worth it in retrospect. And perhaps they did not trade away their future as they shoot for another WS championship and 4th WS appearance over the last five years.
which would be 5th World Series in 7 years – VERY few teams have EVER done that, in the long and august history of baseball
I dont think you understand how this works
I’m very interested to see how much payroll the Mets purge at the deadline.
And this purge should knock them down a tier or two on the luxury tax scale.
except, the offset money they send to Rangers & Astros counts toward Mets luxury tax calculation, Halo
Yeah. The offset was more than I expected on Verlander.
I am now SO STOKED!!!!! Astros avoiding lux tax ….. and getting JV for 2 prospects and annual salary clocking in around 20 million
As you should be.
It will help, but I believe that they are substantially above the top level.
So, the Mets get the top Minor leaguer in the Houston Astros minor league system, but where does he rate overall.
He rates really low. One of the worst players to ever put on a uniform. Rumor has it, he got fired from Cosco for assaulting a child with a peach
68 lol, but hey Mets don’t get any pitching prospects, dummies lol
68 in mlb, 4 for the Mets
As much as i like verlander, i hate they gave up Clifford and Gilbert
Their top 4 prospects were all lefty hitting outfielders. They only have so many spots in the big league outfield. Good use of prospects as capital.
That is true. Plus with Tucker and McCormick they will only need one of them. But man i thought Gilbert would be good
Yeah it could bite them if only 1-2 of the 4 work out and it turns out to be one they traded. But those are the gambles in life. If prospects were guaranteed, no one would ever trade them.
Good riddance JV. You couldn’t cut it in NY. Go back to being a red neck and Astro. That’s where you belong.
Sounds like a trash Yankee fan that would kill for him to start in the Bronx. Speaking for Queens, Verlander was more than fine for us.
He couldn’t cut it? He’s been pitching great.
I said he did pretty good
What about PITCHERS damn it lol maybe trade Vientos, Mauricio and a minor league SS for Dylan Cease lol
I think the problem is that teams are very reluctant to give up pitching prospects and young pitchers because there’s such a demand for them and they free agent costs are so high.
and their attrition rate is astronomical.
All I heard is how bad Houstons farm is. Yet the make all the key trades they need to contend every year.
And they rarely lose on trades. It happens every once in a while, but how many people can name the players that Detroit got for Verlander?
Wow, seems like the Astros paid a steep price for Verlander, their. #1 and #4 prospects. I wonder if that means that the Mets ate a lot of the contract.
For sure. They didn’t want him for over 30 million after cy young world series. Definitely don’t want him for 43 and possibly another 2 years.
Overall Gilbert is the 68th top prospect in the MLB pipeline and Clifford is not in the the top 100. Gilbert exected to be in the show in 2025 and Clifford in 2027.
@mlbdodgerfan2015 Thing is, the Astros had probably the worst farm system of all 30 teams, so their #1 and 4 weren’t anything like, say, the Cubs #1 and 4.
Drew Clifford and Ryan Gilbert translate on a more objective scale to FV (Future Value) 50 and 45 players, respectively. Clifford could be an impact regular, but Gilbert’s best projection is probably as the strong side (he’ll hit against RHP) of a RF platoon. A nice player to have, but probably nowhere near a star.
The Mets’ farm system is ordinary enough and is particularly lacking in high-end prospects that Clifford is now (barely) their #1 prospect, though you could make the case that spot belongs instead to any one of Acuna, Ramirez, and Mauricio.
Gilbert might even be up in 2024. I’d figure on a cup of coffee in September if all goes well, but a chaotically run team like the Mets could conceivably decide to flood Citi with prospects in 2024 with an eye to fending off criticism during a collapse / rebuilding year. Considering, too, service time manipulation they might just hold him out until May or June 2025. It’s the Mets so, who knows, really?
@JackStrawb Yeah but that’s still way too much to trade away given Verlander’s remaining contract, especially if Verlander vests for 2025. Also, risk given his age. Looks like the Mets are eating up to $54mm if accurate.
Do we know how much salary the Mets are eating? It’s the Astros, so we know it’s “some, probably a lot,” but I haven’t seen a dollar figure anywhere.
Mets paying $52.5mm of $93mm outstanding (assuming 2025 vests). Article updated. That’s quite a bit and why the Mets are getting the haul that they’re getting.
THESE are the type of moves that scare me as a braves fan. None of the stuff the Mets did in the off-season really phased me much but dumping overpriced veterans to acquire young controllable top prospects is the way to truly build an organization.
I have been wondering this same thing. Did Cohen just decide to buy a farm system? Pay down a significant amount of veteran’s contract and get back the controllable prospects instead of tearing it all down and starting over bc I would assume next year’s offseason is going to buying top talent again.
I don’t know if it was meant to happen but it has. Pay two veteran pitchers lots of money in hopes of competing. If they don’t, pay off some of the salary and grab top prospects. I know Mets fans are bummed they aren’t winning this season, but the long play that turned out as a result is cunning and right decision. Bully on the Mets FO of knowing when to call it a season and capitalize!
Think Cohen will try to off load Lindor’s remaining 8 years/$272.8M next?
You mean Mr. Hit into a double play with RISP? Great Gucci glove, not so great clutch bat.
Given the deals handed out last offseason he could probably find a taker even at that price (or by sending along a couple of decent prospects to ease the acquirer’s pain), but the Mets don’t actually have a SS waiting in the minors (Mauricio is the answer to very few questions), which would be embarrassing.
Keep Lindor and Alonso and people will probably keep coming to Citi even though 2024 is likely to be an ugly year. I think given the return (the lack of a prospect likely to become a solid MLB regular), even trading Verlander was a mistake. If they could have gotten a single FV 55 or 60 player instead of a 50 and 45, it would have been a move worth making, but Eppler correctly does not trust his own judgment, so like most weak talent evaluators he thinks that getting two guys instead of one improves his chances at snatching the brass ring.
How good are the prodpects going to the Mets? Being a top prospect in a light Astros farm system doesnt mean that someone ia a great talent.
Gilbert is a consensus top-50 prospect in the game. It’s an outrageous fleecing by the Mets
@The_Porcupine Drew Gilbert’s pretty good. He might stick in CF and he’s an impressive hitter, though he’s struggling now in AA—but that’s not a surprise given he still only has about 400 PA in pro ball. By struggling, I mean his OPS is .713, not .550. Put him in the bucket with Vientos and Mauricio. He’s also in the wrong organization to figure out what needs figuring out. Consider that the Mets had Baty, Vientos, and Mauricio for a combined 15 years and couldn’t figure out how to teach ANY of them to field 3B.
Ryan Clifford’s… respectable. He’s the kind of prospect you want 10 of, in case one or two pan out. His peak projection is probably as the strong side of a platoon in RF, but there’s a small chance he’ll be better than that, maybe the Mets starting 1Bman in 2028.
I don’t know how a big a mystery the Mets offseason will be. Theyll overpay a bunch of really old players who will underperform and the team will suck. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Ryan Clifford will step in for Pete before 2025
And Clifford is actually a nice guy, unlike Alonso who is a jerk
Doubt it but should try.
Mets fans are getting screwed. No one talks about the loyal fan base that’s there day in and day out. As I have said before, I went through this many in Oakland and never gets easier, this why we can have free agent fans as well, as hard as it is.
Ryan Clifford also going to the Mets according to MLB Network
How much dough is going with Verlander to Houston?
The Mets really bent over in the last week, giving away Scherzer and Verlander. This is a huge amount of money. $54 million going with Verlander to Houston. Sheesh, so much for valuing Verlander differently than Scherzer.
Astros did very well unless that prospect becomes an all star for years, good trade for them.
Bigger disaster:
The Titanic or the 2023 New York Mets?
Yankees
The Mets aren’t going anywhere and they get 2 decent OF prospects, not to mention some overpaid salary relief. I wouldn’t complain if I was a Mets fan….other than about the season of course.
You wouldn’t complain about a chaotic front office that’s fundamentally clueless and can’t hire anything resembling solid FO talent? Jeez. That’s not baseball, hombre.
I think a temporary 6-man rotation will help Valdez and Javier even more than Brown and France. Those guys (not to mention most of the pen) look pretty gassed and could use a reprieve prior to ramping up for the playoffs.
Terrible trade. Eppler gets fleeced once again. The sharks smell blood and are circling the waters
Lol what
That’s your take on every mets trade. Everyone
Such immature people here who wanna troll and not talk baseball
One of Cohen and Eppler’s many shortcomings are that, since they’re terrible talent evaluators (see their total inability to build an adequate bullpen despite having the largest payroll in the game, by far) rather than aim for the best prospect they can get for elite talent, they tend to get two weaker prospects and hope one pans out. That’s a terrible strategy given talent in baseball is a very steep pyramid.
They did this with Robertson (and a dozen clubs were interested, so they had their pick of packages), and they’re doing it again with Verlander, though given JV’s NTC it’s hard to know whether there was an FV 55 in LA to be gotten for Verlander. Still, it’s how they conduct business. Cohen can’t move on to a competent FO too soon.
Should have got more for Verlander than two chase rate/obp outfielders without much power. They should have had Andrew Taylor added in
If we were gonna sell the farm, could it have at least been for Dylan Cease
What an abysmal, awful trade for the Astros. Gonna go down as one of the worst trades in franchise history. I suppose the fans won’t care if they win another World Series, but that won’t make it anything other than an awful trade.
I was thinking somewhat of the same. I think the Mets did well on this trade.
Terrible trade for the Mets. Neither of these guys is likely to be a big league regular ever. Astros better be paying the whole contract if the return is this light
I think they weren’t gong to get much out of Verlander. Guess we will see.
They weren’t going to ‘get much’ from last year’s Cy Young winner who currently has a 3.15 ERA, with a 1.46 ERA in his last 6 games? His ERA+ in 2023 even with the rocky start sits at 131, or a little more than a rock solid HOFer’s ERA+, career, would be.
Not this year. Hey, prove me wrong Verlander!
2 great outfield prospects. Should have went rental. Painful prospect cost.
I suppose the fans won’t care if they win another World Series,
=======================
Yeah, that’s, you know, kind of the purpose of the whole thing.
purpose of the whole thing is to win multiple World Series, or at least get there more often than not, year after year after year after year.
I’m an Astros fan, and i’ve gotten pleasingly used to this 🙂
So…who’s pitching for the Mets next year????
What’s your fastball like?
Cy Young candidate Framber?
8th in ERA
12th in Wins
14th in WHIP
He’s gonna have to go on a crazy run to win the Cy.
Ryan Clifford is a great prospect. I have seen him play in the minors several times. He is a hoss for sure. He could be launching rockets out of Citi Field in a couple of years
Great move for the Astros. Red Sox’s hope of a wild card diminishes the less they get involved.
True dat. I was hoping to catch one or the other. If I had to find a silver lining it’s that a) they can both beat up on Seattle who is still in it, and b) they can both beat up on each other.
Watched Drew Gilbert mash an absolute no doubter this season in A+ ball in Asheville. Mets got a stud.
Well ..was I ever wrong! NY fans being NY fans. Still thinking that they had a chance this year. Really?
If you told me on Opening Day that both Max and JV would be shipped out by the Mets by the trade deadline, I would’ve called you crazy. Baseball is so fun to watch!
Has anyone credible (not Nightengale or Gomez) reported how much of Verlander’s contract the Mets are paying?
Mets fans say hello to shohei 10 years 550 million
Mets should of demanded Forest Whitley in the deal if not tried for Bobby Miller on the Dodgers
So the Mets have a real dilemma here. They need to replace 3 starters now and will push hard for one of those to be Ohtani. Negotiations will be long and they may miss out on other top free agents as a result, in which case they might have to trade some of those prospects for pitching. It may work out but they’ve painted themselves into a corner with this move
Ohtani and Yamamoto to Mets is already basically a done deal. That’s what Eppler is here for
@Greet The Mets Given they didn’t get anyone special in the trade, I have to agree. It smells (reeks) very much like they (a) know they’re not getting Ohtani, and (b) they’re going to punt 2024 though Eppler will continue to lie to us about how this wasn’t a fire sale, and so forth.
Presumably they won’t trade prospects for pitching unless it’s from surplus, but as long as they don’t panic, it’s reasonable to back off and wait until the 2024-25 offseason to reload. If they can sign a young ace for 2024 and figure he’ll still be in his prime when the Mets are contenders again, they might go that route. So, pay through the nose for a young ace, add a Quintana-like SP for the #4 slot, fake a #5 (again), maybe bring in someone of the Trevor Williams or Seth Lugo tier in order to keep David Peterson off the mound.
Then hope Diaz comes 90% of the way back, hope their new front office can build a bullpen, play the position player prospects and find out which ones will make the 26-man roster in 2025 while finding out if Marte and McNeil have to be replaced.
Dealing Verlander gives them an excuse to punt 2024. It wasn’t the worst idea given they weren’t likely to contend in any case.
Nice analysis. I’m surprised that so many Mets’ fans are okay with punting 2024.
Not sure which is more embarrassing to read: Astros fans claiming this trade is a big win, or anyone who’s claiming that Eppler got fleeced. What an absolute slaying by the Mets here
@jason marbach Pretty sure the most embarrassing part of this is the Mets front office posting under a nom de plume and patting themselves on the back.
Claiming that getting a 45 and a 50 FV prospect for the best SP on the market (so basically Mark Vientos and Mike Vasil) at the deadline is “an absolute slaying” is an evaluation so grotesque only someone being paid, someone born without the shame gene, could possibly post it.
Shoo.
This is not a rebuild.
Correct. It’s a rebuild being set on fire. A fire sale rebuild.
—It’s not a bad strategy, really. The Mets failed utterly in 2023, and instead of a payroll approaching $400m in 2024 just to contend, by dealing Verlander they’re giving themselves every excuse to pause, play upper level prospects, see if McNeil and Marte are truly toast, and go from there.
Do the Mets KNOW this is their strategy? Impossible to say. They’re so chaotic they may simply be continuing this reeling from pillar to post out of reflex. Still, it opens up a few more possibilities that wouldn’t have been present had they hung onto JV.
Good luck to him in Houston. He’d been a lot of fun to watch pitching with the Mets in his last 6-8 starts.
As the dog returns to his vomit…
Empirically, demonstrably wrong and ignorant. You’ve got a 40 year old pitcher with health issues whose peripherals are very clear about his steep decline curve, versus a consensus top 50 prospect in Gilbert (who you clearly need to actually learn something about) and another very good prospect in Clifford. If the deal was structured around Clifford as a centerpiece, most people who actually know ball look at this trade and say “okay, sure, pretty good deal for both teams.” As it is, this a full blown, outrageous overpay by the Astros, and an incredible fleecing by Eppler and the Mets.
This comment was supposed to be a response to the unserious clown called “showman”
Hahah. You prob thought the same when we traded Cameron, Perez, and Franklin for Verlander the first time. I am stunned at how many fans fail to realize that prospects are a commodity. Sometimes it makes sense to hold it and sometimes it makes sense to sell one commodity for another one. A good GM is not married to prospects out of the sake of loyalty.
Horrible trade keeps getting worse. Mets paying half the contract or more and getting mid prospects
How are the Astros #1 and #4 prospects, mid?
Weak system, neither guy seems likely to be a big league regular.
Ignore him, he’s just a troll who isn’t even pretending to know ball
This comment was supposed to be a response to the unserious clown called “showman”
This was much better that anyone realistically thought they could get for Verlander.
The Braves were wasting their time on the phone about Verlander, when AA could have been in other negotiations However, the Mets paid $54M for the 2 Astros prospects. That is how much they sent along with Verlander to get 2 prospects! 54 million dollars. Robison Cano is also waiting on a Mets payday
It’s a sunk cost. That money was gone the minute Verlander signed his contract. The Mets traded an asset they no longer needed for two prospects who if they pan out, come with six years of control at minimal additional cost. Not to mention the $54 million you cited is if he vests next year. If not, the price is lower.
when AA could have been in other negotiations
=============================
Like the Braves only have one phone line, and nobody else in the FO that can pick up the phone and say “please wait”?
The Astros now have Verlander for $17m a year…craziness.
Plus whatever value they gave up in the prospect.s
The prospects arecertainly a cost, but $17 mil a year for 2 1/3 years of a championship window is huge.
Screamer has nailed the greatest aspect of this ^^^^^
Republican Texas conspiracy to keep NYC in the crapper lol
NYC doesn’t need any help, they do just fine on their own
This is really interesting, by spending a shitload of money the Mets have really retooled their farm system.
@R.D.
Shhhh don’t say it too loud, most people don’t get that part. They can’t even get past lolmets LMAO.
It doesn’t look like a genius move when you spend what could amount to well over $70 million to buy 2 prospects. Don’t try to sell it like its anything but waiving the white flag
@Rsox
Don’t know how much whiter the flag has gotta be to deem it obvious. If you can’t see what just transpired here then there’s really no point in explaining. Time is your best friend, you’ll figure it out soon enough.
@R,D, – perhaps they are making the best of a really terrible situation, agreed… but they are still in a really terrible situation though.
Between Verlander and Scherzer, the Mets could be spending more than $120 million (including the luxury tax penalties) to obtain these three prospects.. That is a huge sum to pay for prospects. For reference.. That’s more than the combined signing bonuses for the top 20 selections in the 2023 draft. That’s more than a third of the total bonus pool for all 30 MLB teams – combined.
On top of that, the money they are paying to Scherzer and Verlander will also hurt their future draft positioning, assuming they continue to be over the luxury tax threshold.
Preach it brother! I do not like Eppler at all. Gilbert will be a Citifield fave,and Clifford can mash. Mets farm system is deplete of bats. Look at the Mets this year- one of the big issues is that very few times anyone has hit in the clutch with RISP. I haven’t heard of any money involved so if it’s truly Verlander for Gilbert/Clifford, the Astros gave up alot! Eppler did a fleecing.
I’ll take JV for $17 mil a year. Doesn’t seem like a fleece
Ridiculous to pay down that much. They should have kept him if they planned to compete next year.
The Mets thought the $52.5 million (potentially) was better spent on Gilbert and Clifford than on Verlander.
I might agree.
2 top outfield prospects. Dumped $. Minimize risk. Probably some billionaire write off I don’t know about.
I wouldn’t want to part with these 2. Rather got a rental. Maybe Houston knows they aren’t going to be anything great and found the perfect taker.
Hahahaha. Houston only paying 29 million for 2 and 1/3 seasons for Verlander. Bahahahaha. Mets paying around 57 million. That’s a lot of coin for 2 prospects outside the MLB top 100.
Well, the Astros are paying $40.5 million (potentially) for Verlander.
PLUS the value of the two prospects.
As I just commented, I wouldn’t have made the deal from the buying Verlander side.
MLB top 100 is asleep.
The pay down on this… wow. Just WOW
oof.
Better the Astros than my team
Verlander has very average numbers this year. Below average K rate (94 K+). A bit better than average BB rate. (93 BB+). He gives up a lot of fly balls (114 FB+) which leads to a league average xFIP (99).
Generously, let’s give him 1 WAR this season, 3 WAR next season and 2 WAR in 2025. That’s 6 WAR. Say that’s worth (6 X 8) $48 million (ignoring and Present Value adjustments). The Astros are paying, potentially, , $40.5 million. That leaves $7.5 million in surplus value.
The value of the two prospects well exceeds that.
Astros must think Verlander is better than I do. or the prospects aren’t likely to produce much.
Astros and Rangers playing chess at this trade deadline. Angels are playing checkers. Angel fans say goodbye to Ohtani.
What?
The Astros think Verlander is better than you do. But hey , who’s kidding who ?, what do they know compared to you. ?
Sure.
Verlander is MUCH better than you think he is – I will add “IMO” here, because you never know with arms – but Verlander is the guy most likely to still be a top ten ACE at 44 years old. There are few things I’m more of a student of than the careers of 200+ win pitchers. Verlander is like a Randy Johnson arm with a Greg Maddux brain.
Why do you believe that?
What in his performance this year makes you think that?
I listed my reasons why I think he’s not that great, why do you think he is?
Because he is Justin Verlander – he’s built differently than lesser pitchers, including Scherzer. He is ANY of the 300 game winners since Warren Spahn. I’ve watched him pitch innumerable times, I’ve listened to him talk a ton. He wants to get to 300, he wants chanpionship rings, he wants to climb up the other leader charts, he wants to pitch until he is at least 45, he is smart, he is dogged, he is determined, and he’ll find a way, so long as his arm doesn’t fall off.
He has character, in the baseball sense. He NEVER quits. He Wins.
That’s why.
A true bulldog. Hof pitcher. Hopes he gets to 300
So, no actual reason. Got it
actually, those are reasons that smart front offices weigh VERY heavily, and not-smart front offices dismiss as fairy dust
however, here are his last 7 starts – how many pitchers have been this good since June 26?
Jun 26 to Jul 30, 2023 NYM 7 7 0 0 5-2 W-L:4-1 42.1 27 9 7 18 37 1 1 1.49 3.18 171 .178 .269 .230 .499 .228 705 64%
He’s pitching very well right now. Exactly what you want.
Those are a bunch of numbers. Thank you for sharing them.
fili, you’re gonna wind up taking the L on this – stop with the blowhard stuff.
In EVERY Verlander thread for last 4 days, I have been proven correct in my assessments – go read ’em if you want; several were in response to you. About this thing, I know what I’m talking about.
What is one example of you being “proven correct in your assessments”?
One?
I mean, I’d rather have a player who pitched well all season, not just the last few games.
everything I said about Astros having sufficient farm to get anybody
everything I said about the cash offset we’d need, though that came in WAY over my expectations
everything I said about no Chas, no France, no Brown going back to Mets
that’s all what wound up happening.
Because I’m very careful about my comments, I’ve studied Astros methods for years, and sometimes I can kinda think the way they think (though usually they’re WAY above my paygrade)
I’m also right about Elias & the Orioles, because, they are, basically, Astros Jr.
I’m sorry, fili, but I prefer the front office we have, to you.
A-ht
“everything I said about Astros having sufficient farm to get anybody”
I mean, you weren’t proven correct in that. Logically, that would be impossible. The Astros didn’t get, say, Ohtani or Acuna, so you can’t logically say that you had the ability to get them.
“everything I said about the cash offset we’d need, though that came in WAY over my expectations”
What did you say? Not exactly going out on a limb to say “the Mets will eat some of Verlander’s contract to move him”. Pretty much everyone knew that.
“everything I said about no Chas, no France, no Brown going back to Mets”
Ok. Could that because, I dunno, Verlander isn’t that good. Could Verlander not being as good as you think be the reason that the Mets paid down more of his salary than you anticipated?
Looks like I’m being proven correct. The Verlander wasn’t worth the best prospects and the Mets had to eat tons of salary to move him. Thanks for pointing that out.
never mind