The Mets were among the biggest sellers of the deadline. Impending free agents like Tommy Pham and David Robertson seemed obvious trade targets for weeks. The Mets signaled a larger retool when they dealt Max Scherzer and Justin Verlander for prospects, moving on from players they’d envisioned as co-aces of a contending team just a few months ago.
Scherzer told The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal yesterday that Mets’ higher-ups had informed him they were shifting their focus toward 2025-26, a key reason the future Hall of Famer agreed to waive his no-trade clause. Owner Steve Cohen and general manager Billy Eppler more or less expressed similar sentiments in response to Scherzer’s comments.
Cohen met with reporters this afternoon and elaborated on the organizational plans. “Max asked me straight: ‘Are you going to be all-in on free agency next year?’ And I couldn’t give him that promise,” Cohen told the New York beat (relayed by Tim Britton and Will Sammon of the Athletic). “It doesn’t mean we’re not going to bring in free agents. It may not be to the extent that we did in the past because I’m carrying a lot of dead money.”
The owner added he wanted next year’s team to be “very competitive” but conceded the 2024 club isn’t likely to carry the same expectations as this season’s group. Philosophically, he noted it “won’t be as star-studded a team as it was, but stars don’t necessarily make for wins.”
Unsurprisingly, Cohen didn’t elaborate on what kind of spending range he anticipates for the club going into 2024. It certainly seems as if they’re preparing to scale back from this year’s MLB record levels. New York opened the season with a player payroll pushing $331MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. Their player spending was nearing half a billion dollars after factoring in their immense luxury tax bill.
Next year’s club has around $204MM on the books and a $219MM competitive balance tax figure, as calculated by Roster Resource. That’s before factoring in a $6.5MM club option for Brooks Raley or arbitration salaries — the most notable of which by far is that of Pete Alonso, who’ll be due a raise on this year’s $14.5MM tab.
The Mets don’t have many impending free agents of note at this point. Carlos Carrasco is headed to the open market after a down year. Adam Ottavino and Omar Narváez have player options they seem likely to exercise, although Ottavino could plausibly test the market. They’re going to head into the offseason projected above next year’s $237MM base luxury tax threshold, but they’d be well below this year’s spending levels.
Of course, they’ll need to tap into free agency, even if it’s not at the top of the market. A projected rotation of Kodai Senga, José Quintana, Tylor Megill, David Peterson and either Joey Lucchesi or José Butto is nowhere near sufficient. They’ll need to sort out the corner outfield after dealing Pham and Mark Canha, particularly if Starling Marte is still battling the migraine issues that have plagued him this year. They could look for an upgrade at designated hitter. Edwin Díaz’s return would be huge for the bullpen, but they’ll need to add middle inning depth.
Given that messaging, it seems those additions will be more modest than the star pursuits of the past two winters. It’s not a truly unpredictable turn of events. Cohen has spoken on a few occasions about considering the club’s recent level of spending unsustainable over the longer haul and talked about building through the farm system. Paying down huge chunks of the Scherzer and Verlander contracts to land Luisangel Acuña, Drew Gilbert and Ryan Clifford demonstrates genuine commitment to stockpiling younger talent. Yet it’s undoubtedly a sharp pivot from the organizational approach of the past couple seasons.
Even if they’re not planning to concede 2024 entirely, the acknowledgement they’ll enter the season with diminished expectations naturally leads to a question about Alonso’s future. The star first baseman is going into his final season of arbitration eligibility. If the Mets view themselves as longer shots for a playoff spot, there’s an argument to shop him this winter (particularly since the upcoming free agent class is so light on impact hitters beyond Shohei Ohtani).
Cohen declined to go into specifics on Alonso’s status but called him “an integral part of the Mets” and said he hopes they can “work things out” on a long-term contract. There’s nothing to suggest talks are ongoing or imminent, though. Cohen pointed out that the Mets re-signed Brandon Nimmo after he’d reached free agency last winter. (Díaz was also within a few days of the open market when he re-upped.) Alonso didn’t feature prominently in trade rumors this week, but concurrent speculation about both extension or trade possibilities figure to be key storylines next winter.
LOLJanowsky
Go get an LOL room you two.
They’re secret LOLvers
Cohen is the new paradigm for failure, who the heck would want to “listen” to him?
Well, you can’t get mad for the Owner to come to his senses and rebuild. Even though he doesn’t call it a rebuild.
Making a splash as a new owner, albeit the richest one in the game, sounded about right as it was going down. He even was trying to land Correa at one point. The money is no object obviously was a bluff. An ego tactic from a man with his business nature.
I can see the Mets to build upward from here. They do have the resources. And some good talent now in the minors. I do think they will continue to be aggressive with free agents. The mix of this season just wasn’t working out. It happens like that sometimes. I think the Mets could have turned it around wins wise at some point. But they got younger controllable players and have the future of a young catcher. Firstbasmen and shortstop. Major building blocks. Injuries have hurt them in the pitching dept. But I think they compete next season for a wild card. Hell, Lots of teams are competing This year. Many are only better standings wise than the Mets because their lineups are deeper. Bottom line. Mets need more players and pitchers who contribute. Not a few high priced injury prone question mark guys. Get those and you compete.
Jokes on you. He bought the Mets for the tax write off, and now.that the loss is big enough to spread over several years, he’s going to run it like a business.
LOL styme
and WILPON wasn’t using the team as a business to cover his real estate company ?????
If you’re not all in as a fan with THIS owner, go watch pickleball
We don’t need you
My Fantasy Team cratered and I can’t get up! Til 2025
You can’t get it up??? TMI Uncle Mike ewww!
They have pills for that now.
Mad Max, the used-up Fury Road version, doesn’t seems to realize that he was paid big to be a significant part of the solution. Instead he’s been part of the mediocre problem.
I agree. As a Mets fan, there was always a lot of noise coming from him. You never hear a lot of noise from guys like Goldschmidt, Freeman… or even Verlander. Just do your job, work hard and lead by example. He was pretty good with the Mets, but I’d much rather Verlander still be here than Max. Either way, it was smart to pivot and aim to be better through a different strategy.
They did get one really good year from him, until the last couple of starts. Very up and down this year.
23 starts last season. Not what the Mets were expecting from him for $43 million. Add in his complete collapse in the playoffs and its a big part of the reason he is gone now.
@pads
No doubt, but the four months he pitched were basically elite until the collapse at the very end
They got one so-so season from him. To say it was a good season he would have had to make 10 more starts in the regular season and not have a 13.50 ERA in the post season.
Sorry, no way is a 2.29 era / .90 whip and 7.21 k/bb ratio a so so season. The finish sucked, but the overall season was great.
23 starts = so-so season.
23 starts is a so-so season. He had 33-34 opportunities to help his team win and he missed more than 30% of them.
To be a good season he would have had to take the mound more often.
I get what you’re saying, but nobody had 34 starts and only four had 33. 32 is a realistic “full season,” and at his age they would have skipped him a start or two anyway. I still think the performance, even if 70% of a season, was top notch, so agree to disagree. And i cant stand him.
Scherzer was paid the most money of any player in baseball last and the expectation was he would be an Ace. To be an elite starter, an Ace, part of it is taking the ball every 5th day. He showed last season that he was not capable of that.
Yes, he was very good for a portion of the regular season. But he only made 67% of possible starts and then was terrible when the Mets needed him to be an Ace the most. Combine his lack of ability to take the ball every 5th game last season with getting caught cheating this season, making bad excuses for cheating, and all his whining about the team, and #3 type results this season and it meant he had to go now. The Mets would have received far less for him in the offseason, too.
I would not be at all surprised if the Mets actually play better the last two months of the season than they have to this point.
That is the difference between an Ace and a regular starter. An Ace is expected to be more reliable than other starters, To make 33 starts. 23 is no where near that.
If you want to get paid the big bucks, you do what others can’t and that is make ALL the starts, not get skipped a start or two or in his case, 10.
Again, overstating it with 33… thats rare.. plenty of indisputable aces every year have 31 or 32 starts. I get your point, but when he pitched, he was top tier. Basically, i dont think the mets didnt get their money’s worth w him – until he blew it at the end.
Its not rare. 4 starters did it last season. 7 the season before. 20 in 2019 including 7 that had 34 starts. 33-34 starts is what is EXPECTED of an Ace.
Pitching well for 23 starts makes him a good pitcher and means even by your logic that he is not an Ace. Pitching well for 33 starts makes a starter an Ace and worth the $43 million he was paid.
Agree about the noise especially this year starting back in ST. Players complimented his competitiveness and said he was a good teammate dnd maybe he was but he annoyed me. Not sorry to see hus personality gone.
Winners don’t make a lot of noise and they certainly don’t betray confidences by making private conversations public.
If you want to be George Steinbrenner then go all the way. Don’t spend like George then trade away your signings but not fire anyone mid-season.
If George Steinbrenner were alive and owned the Mets he would have Fired Buck after that Braves Series (The “Throw it Again” curse series).
But they are gonna Pay near 70 million dollars for Scherzer and Verlander to go away.
But I will tell you who the Mets should hire (But Won’t) to be the manager and GM. Ron Washington and you would have a manager who has passion and will light a fire under any team and for GM it should be Alex Anthopoulos but you would have to offer something to the Braves like trading them the prospects they just got and probably give 5% of the team to him and make him team president. But for obvious reasons these moves won’t happen.
Why would anyone want to be George Steinbrenner?
He was a blowhard whose teams sometimes won in spite of and not because of him.
I don’t want to be George Steinbrenner but Cohen seems to
My great uncle worked for the Yankees for 40+ years in the front office from the early 1950s through 1990s. I heard a number of stories about George and they are not alike at all.
@Braves Butt-Head: I think Cohen just wants to be Steve Cohen. People don’t always want to be someone else.
@dugmet
are you a Costanza?
Blue Baron: I agree that Cohen wants to be himself and I doubt he studied Steinbrenner’s game plan. Steinbrenner did something no one had done before. He signed as many stars as he could to buy himself a WS championship team. They won two titles and lost another one to the Reds. That’s the only time I can think of that buying big worked Even without the stars I think the Mets might do better next year because the intense pressure Cohen inadvertently put on his team will be gone. They’re not expected to win. That could lead to better results than this season.
@Braves Butthead- You kind of contradicted yourself by pointing out ways he’s not like Steinbrenner (isn’t hard-headed enough to think this team can still win this year, isn’t firing everyone mid-season, isn’t criticizing his players amidst this disappointing year, etc.).
A couple of other teams come to mind that spent big and won. 2009 Yankees for sure… Even the 1997 Marlins… 2020 Dodgers, 2018 Red Sox
I haven’t looked, but I’m guessing it’s rarer to win a WS without being a top 10 payroll.
Last year’s NL playoff field consisted of the top NL payrolls. Despite people making fun of the Mets,there’s a direct correlation to spending and success in baseball.
You want Steinbrenner’s 6 rings.
My great uncle worked for George. He made some good decisions early on – signing free agents when FA was new. Otherwise he was a terrible owner who mostly got in the way and made it hard for baseball people to do their jobs well.
I doubt at his age, Ron Washington wants the stress of being the man in charge.
Alex isn’t leaving the Braves. I know everyone has a price, but he’s got a good thing going there. Why would he want to leave?
All is not lost they will have Dan Vogelbach on next year’s roster at a modest cost.
If I owned the Mets this would be my IF:
1b Tellez
2b Burger
SS Vogelbach (Can also fill in at 3b)
C Alvarez
SP Lynn
It’s funny because they are fat!
I just wanted to say that Vin Scully was my favorite sports broadcaster of all.
He was 94 or 95, and he touched millions of people. My condolences to his family, friends and fans.
What does Scully have to do with this article? Stay on topic, please.
It was the one-year anniversary of Vin Scully’s passing, so I just wanted to give my thanks for him.
It’s still the wrong place to do so.
Has he really been gone a year. He was the best.
Longevity was his only attribute. He didn’t touch anyone. He was a mediocre broadcaster and I for one couldn’t stand listening to him.
Highway
You are just wrong. I can certainly agree that Scully is an acquired taste, and some people like strawberry better than chocolate and vice versa. But millions loved him as a broadcaster. John Wooden and Vin Scully had as big an impact on Los Angeles as any player.
His call of the ball going through Bill Buckner’s legs and the Mets winning game 6 in ‘86 was a classic, and then he brilliantly shut up and let the crowd tell the story.
One of the greatest announcers of my lifetime. Miss hearing him call a game.
Braves are so good they made the Mets and their highest ever payroll quit NEXT year too lol
I agree the Atlanta ball club is the best team in MLB, but before you crow too much remember Philly was in WS last year, not the Atlanta ball club. And with the asterisks reclaiming Kate Upton’s husband, the AL has four or five tough teams. The Mets’ trades made Atlanta’s path tougher, not easier. Good teams will stay modest until they get their World Series victory.
The Atlanta ball club? You mean the Atlanta Braves?
I’ll take getting Fried (and Minter…and potentially Wright and Jesse Chavez and Dylan Lee in September) back over the Astros getting Verlander 100 times out of 100. I don’t think enough people appreciate what the Braves have done this year without those guys, plus Harris, Arcia, d’Arnaud, Iglesias all missing a month+ in the first half of the season.
Trust me: enough people appreciate the Braves. They’re widely considered the best team in baseball. I don’t know how else they can be appreciated. Monuments? Mid-season parades?
Astros have been in the same injury situation as the Braves, all year. Very similar
#1, the Mets have not quit next season. They just got rid of under performing and expensive players.
#2, the Braves have won no postseason games this year and they were not the team in the NLCS or WS last season.
You can count on your fingers the number of teams with the best record in baseball that have won the WS. Hubris comes before the fall.
So slow your roll.
Not sure hubris on a fan blog has anything to do with how the team performs.
THAT was what you got out of my comment? Seriously?
My guy doesn’t haven have one hubri, let alone multiple.
Trade Alonso to the Phillies or nats. Get a prospect while tying down a division rival with an albatross contract.
I’m not sure you understand the situation.
I’m sure he does not.
Since when does Alonso have an albatross contract? Yes, he’s making quite a bit in arbitration, but he’s provided much more value in return.
He’s implying that the team who trades for him would sign him to an extension. Why would the Nats trade for him otherwise? So he’s saying let one of those other teams pay him “market” rates and see how quickly that contract is underwater.
There are plenty of times when teams trade for a star player with one year remaining on their contracts or under team control without a guarantee of an extension. If he/she was assuming a trade-and-sign move, he/she should have said so.
Disappointing season for Mets fans but the good news is that the owner immediately took action to regroup. Rebuilds typically take 4 or 5 years but Cohen used the power of his money to add up to 4-6 top 100 quality prospects plus a decent group of mid-tier organizational prospects virtually overnight. With draft and international amateur bonus pool limitations on signing amateur talent that’s an incredible haul. Mets have a group of ~5 decent starting pitching prospects one to two years awa but they will need to acquire a #1 or #2 starter. Cohen ruled out signing high profile FAs this winter – like Ohtani for sure – but that does not mean Mets cannot trade for one using organizational depth. He may also sign mid-tier starting pitching this winter. Eppler was scouting Yamamoto in Japan a couple of weeks ago and could Senga in the rotation.
dugmet: The problem is, Cohen spent like a mad man and all but promised a championship. Going from those expectations to a rebuild must be hard to take for some fans.
avenger65
WE WON OVER 100 GAMES LAST YEAR
He went all in on Verlander to cover the loss of DeGoat and keep the team at that level. Every other signing was a legit good deal
The team failed and we pivoted perfectly.
This franchise is headed in the right direction.
DeGoat, or DeCrepit?
I feel for the Rangers when it comes to deGrom. They were unable to insure him so they will eat this season’s salary and part of next seasons and get nothing for it.
Of course, with his injury history there is no way I would have okayed that salary if I was the owner of the Rangers.
I don’t. That was a dumb move. He was damaged goods and they had to know before they signed him that he was uninsurable.
@avengers65 Cohen put his money where his mouth is. The plan didn’t work but you can’t fault him for efforts. At least he has the foresight to realize the sunk cost and that this roster isn’t going to work. Going from an all-in to a multi-year rebuild while waiting for expiring contracts would be hard for fans to take. He’ll spend again over the winter and deal prospects, just not at the same extreme level. Mets fan should be happy with this direction and have hope once again next year for a better season.
Cohen didn’t rule out signing high profile FA. He just said they will not go all in as they did in past years with Scherzer and Verlander. None of the pitchers on the market other than Ohtani will surpass $30 million AAV and several are top of the rotation starters, so he he can still sign one and maybe two and still spend less money even with paying big chunks of Scherzer and Verlander’s contracts.
As you said, they also now have a huge number good prospects, upper and mid tier, that they can trade for a starter.
Sounds there will be one less suitor for Ohtani if you take these comments at face-value. It will be very boring if (when) he ends up with the Dodgers.
The Yankees will sign him
Ohtani won’t leave the west coast
He’s coming to Atlanta because he wants to win. He doesn’t care about the $$$$$
Ohtani is going to where ever the most money is.
I’d agree with this on ~95% of players, but he already left a ton of money on the table when he decided to come over early. I don’t think he’s all about the money.
He would have extended already if that were the case. Very rarely isn’t a player going on the open market taking the most money. He isn’t leaving fifty to a hundred million on the table. Maybe a couple million but his contract is going to be astronomical.
If the Braves were on the west coast, they would have an excellent chance to sign him. But when he came here his first choice was the Dodgers but the NL didn’t have the DH at the time. That’s why he went to an AL team.Then MLB accommodated him by changing the rule that says when a player is taken out of a game, he can’t return. When Ohtani is pulled for a RP, he can still play as a DH.
The Braves would have no shot at him. They don’t sign high end free agents. They bring in real talented young players and sign them to long term team friendly deals and supplement the core with decent free agents.
Or…he doesn’t think the Angles give a real chance to win? How do you immediately go to, If he didn’t care about the max $, he would have extended…with the team that has failed to make the playoffs every year he’s been there” This is a baseballislife level take.
It’ll be a West Coast ballclub or back to Japan for Ohtani.
Every year some FA takes less than the largest offer. I can’t find a single year in the past 10 when one of the top FA didn’t do that.
IF you have even a small understanding of the Japanese culture you would know that money will not be the biggest factor in signing Ohtani.
He makes $30 million plus off the field, so he is already raking in huge cash and he will get paid big even if he decides to return to the Angels, a very real possibility.
That’s like a MLB MVP winner choosing to play at AAA the following year. What’s there for him to accomplish in the NPB?
And the money will be with the Yankees, especially if missing the postseason this year is a real deal. Fans won’t put up with anything less.
He only told Max the team was stepping back, so he would waive his no trade. He can always change his mind, after the season of course.
I was talking about Ohtani
“Stars don’t necessarily make wins.” I think he’s finally realizing that’s true.
Yankees should also take notes, though their case isn’t as bad.
I think the Yankees are worse off. Mets at least have a ton of prospect talent now.
Bombers are still 3.5 games off the wild card places going into the Houston series — when we may see ex-Met Justin Verlander making his Astros return.
Nothing I’m seeing from the Yankees makes me feel like they’ll get that Wild Card.
Probably not, but I can’t imagine the Yankees farm system is bad. They always have talent. They’ll miss the postseason this year (most likely), but they’ll be rearing and ready for 2024.
Fg has them 25th.
Is it easier to imagine now?
Okay, maybe true. But I’ve seen the Yankees stay relevant for year after year after year and I won’t call them irrelevant until every season when they are mathematically eliminated.
While I am still here for the hot women and their ads
What the Mets were doing was NOT working.
In the clubhouse or the field
Cohen was lucky and he got to retool the team..
I think the Mets will be half decent next year, but I do wonder what Showalter and his future will hold
It is too bad he could not trade him too
Retooling?! I’ll retool you! Ahahaha!
Hahaha, re-tool me for saying the Mets are re-tooling lol
Lucky you! All I got was Hair Cuttery and Mattress Firm ads:(
Well, now I have T Mobile and the I Phone 14 on them
No more women sadly of any kind
Agreed
If Buck doesn’t like playing young guys, he’s probably shouldn’t be managing this team next year.
Yes, Showalter will have to change his ways, if he wants to continue managing the Mets
Please sign Vogelbach to a long term multi billion dollar contract!!!! He’s the best DH in the league. It only makes complete met-sense.
You’re absolutely hysterical, but Vogey’s only making a little over $1M on the option the Mets had. Next year, he’ll return to the arbitration schedule. He’s likely to be non-tendered, unless they feel he can rebound.
He can’t rebound but he sure can be round.
Round Mound of Rebound = Sir Charles
Round Mound of Be Round = Vogie
A total shift in organizational philosophy generally indicates an existing & total misread of the facts in play. The Mets are determined to remain in the wilderness.
It’s not quite a total shift. The priority was always the farm. Cohen tried to win now while building the farm. The win-now part wasn’t working, so he doubled down on building the farm. Not a huge change in his overall plan.
VPH, this is the correct, informed take.
The lolmets crowd tends to resort to hyperbole and/or ignoring certain parts of the objectives.
Cohen has, and has had two goals:
1. Build a sustainable winner (aka farm)
2. Win now
It’s usually very hard to do both… unless you break the system with unbelievable amounts of cash.
2023 was an undeniable failure of goal 2, but he’s parlayed that into achieving goal 1 ahead of schedule. Goal 2 is still attainable.
So while I’m sad that this season wasn’t more successful, I’m happy that he’s sticking with goal 1 for the long term.
maybe wait to see how some of these guys develop before proclaiming that he’s “built a sustainable winner (aka farm)”. They’ve added prospects and bettered their system, but that’s about all you can claim has happened to this point.
Fair. I worded it incorrectly. But he’s made substantial progress towards it, relative to where they were.
Well that’s the case for every team I’m every sport. No one knows what the future holds.
The core on offense is still there. He dumped the underperforming over-the-hill gang and picked up 2 top 100 prospects that are in AA and a multitude of useful prospects.
Von – granted, but I think dumping the two pitchers the Mets grossly overpaid to “win now” is an indication of a significant shift in approach. Building a “sustainable farm system” is a buzz-phrase in MLB right now – I don’t think it’s an exceptional approach. Carrot on a stick. I’ve heard Chaim Bloom use that phrase one too many times.
However, I do enjoy how Cohen is playing fantasy baseball with an actual MLB franchise. Interesting to watch.
I agree, 30. I think Cohen deserves to be bashed for creating the most expensive failure in sports history, but he also deserves some praise for showing the willingness to step back and sell when it wasn’t working.
And by paying off two gigantic short-term contracts, he converted those salaries to prospects. rather than paying them to pitch on a team that probably does not make the playoffs this season or advance in them if it does. He wouldn’t have been able to do that if he’d overpaid deGrom and another player to long-term contracts. He’s looking at the team like any other investment where he’s trying to maximize the long-term value. We’ll see if this approach works in terms of either performance or profit.
More precisely, he is looking at salvage value for a bad investment. He bought a factory, lost money, and sold it at half price.
Sold it at half price but got back siome empty lots that may be very valuable in a few years.
Over 200 million in dead money. That should be a crime, but the Mets have prospects now.
Sounds like you’re trolling and you’re better than that
Looks like I can’t play fantasy baseball in real life. Thoughts and prayers to his money.
The Yankees and Mets situations were somewhat comparable. Both thought they had playoff-contending rosters, both got subpar production out of their roster up and down. The difference is Cohen was willing to act, Cashman/Steinbrenner were not. The Yankees roster looks like 1991–youth not quite ready, older players on downside of career. Steinbrenner will see that next year, when attendance tumbles.
Big difference here though is that the Yankees did not have assets that would have netted them big returns, and they’re still in striking distance of a WC spot, if things break right, so the low returns weren’t worth it.
ie: Mets had two ace-level pitchers and were willing to eat a lot of money to restock the farm… they also a hot back-end arm on a one-year deal.
What of value did the Yankees have? Bader? IKF? Maybe Torres? Once again, I don’t think the Yankees had anything that would have gotten them a lot of value back. In 2016, they dealt away Chapman and Miller, so there is a willingness to do just what the Mets did. They just didn’t have the same level of players to trade.
Agree entirely with the lack of sellable Yankee inventory. The decline in performance among high-paid players seems to exceed their ages. A lot of players just stinking up the joint. The Yankees have ten players with 200+ plate appearances. Judge has an OPS+ of 194 (wow) and Torres is at 107. All of the remaining 8 are below 100–and that doesn’t include Donaldson.
Stop asking the owner about what he’s doing and start grilling the players about WHY he’s doing it. The team was bad and rather than stick their collective head in the ground, he chose to take action and speed up his primary objective of sustained success thru the farm.
Except that his objective isn’t sustained success. The team hasn’t won a title in nearly 40 years. He said his objective was to win a WS in short order. He tried to have it both ways and failed miserably.
They did win 101 games last year.
I think that’s going to be the Mets battle cry for awhile. “101 wins in 2022.”
It’s not nothing. Let’s not act like the last two years were complete failures. It was their second best regular season ever. Still excited for the future. I’m not an unrealistic fan that demands championships every year or it’s a failure.
It’s definitely an accomplishment, but to be fair, I think that number is completely irrelevant outside of that season. The pitchers with the most wins in 2022 weren’t even on the team in 2023. And the 2024 team is going to look very different. So as a fan, it was a fun season and something to look back on, but really the Mets are already so far removed form that.
I agree but they also aren’t that far removed from being that good again. They had an enjoyable year last year, this year failed, and the future looks promising. Will they win ten division crowns in a row? Not a chance with the Braves loaded young players and the Phillies wanting to win every year but they will be contenders almost every year moving forward.
“They did win 101 games” while choking away the NL East and then getting smoked by spendthrift “Slam Diego”.
The Braves had an over .700 winning percentage from June on. That’s not the Mets choking. The Braves were the best team in baseball.
Only player on the Mets that got smoked by the Padres was Scherzer.
And the entire Mets lineup outside of Escobar.
It was a 2-1 series and if Scherzer doesn’t give up 7 runs in 4 IP in the opener the Mets would not have been blown out. They won the 2nd game 7-3 so obviously not the entire team got smoked,
Sounds like David Stearns is already working for the Mets and the Brewers should be looking into it.
Why? We just gave them Canha for free.
Canha for Stearns. Great trade.
Cohen: My goal is to win a world series by 2040. It might not be as owner of the Mets, though.
Actually, to follow the pattern, they would be due to make the WS in 2031. I was born the day the Mets lost the 1973 World Series. They next made [and won] the WS 13 years later in 1986. The next WS appearance was 14 years after that in 2000. Their last WS appearance was 15 years after that in 2015. I’d love them to break the pattern and make it earlier, but 2031 would fit the pattern. That would be the last year of Lindor’s contract.
Mets did well getting a couple top prospects… they have some very good players… free agency could bring in a couple more. They will be in it in 2024.
They need incredible improvement or 4 FA starters…They may hover around .500. If that counts as being in it, which I suppose it does now with the 3 WCs, then sure.
They don’t need 4 free agent starters. They will need two. Senga and Quintana are penciled in. They can get by with Peterson/ Megill/ one of four quality starters at AA. They are favorite to bring in Yamamoto from Japan. Bring in a guy like Montgomery. Their starters are decent. They add bullpen arms to go with Diaz and Raley. They aren’t as good as the Braves but are competitive for wild card. Once your in anyone can win.
Is this Metsfan22’s new account?
So your plan for getting by, even after the assumption that they’re able to sign the two you mention and they perform, is hope Senga and Quintana (who’s thrown 17 innings this year) continue to be decent and able to pitch a full season and then you just expect some combination of the below to work? And you think this can perform enough to be a competitive team?
1 or more (since they’ll likely need at least 2 to get a full season of innings) of their AA pitchers is going to make the jump to MLB and be successful enough to hold a rotation spot on a playoff team.
Megil, who has a 5+ fip & ERA is going to magically perform like a pitcher on a playoff roster next year and be able to do it for a full season of innings and/or Peterson with his 5.92 era | 4.31 fip will?
Talk about rose colored glasses. You’re a huge mets homer, we get it.
Why would anyone not expect Senga not to be good next year? Quintana didn’t have arm issues.Every year teams count on players being called up to pitch. It’s nothing new or being a homer. It’s how the sport is played.
Why might Senga have issues? This is his first time facing MLB hitters, it definitely wouldn’t be the first case where teams have made adjustments to a guy after seeing him for a year. Also…he’s a pitcher, so injury. Why does it matter if Quintana’s injury was arm related? You don’t know what you’re getting with him next year. Teams do not count on multiple double A arms being called up, with 0 MLB experience, to fill out their rotation when they expect to be a contender. It’s definitely not how the sport is played. Especially not currently, with the way teams manage innings for younger pitchers.
The problem is less counting on any one of these things to go well, it’s that you are counting on all of them going well as your plan.
Every team counts on people performing and being healthy. Every team counts on young players being called up. Don’t know why you are acting like every playoff team has five aces.
Megill. If you can’t spell his name, why would anyone value your opinion of him.
You mentioned the very reason the Mets should be able to count on Peterson pitching better going forward and you don’t even realize it.
As usual, your comment is a flamingbagofpoop.
Take his opinion for what is worth. His name tells us exactly what his opinion us worth.
The Mets need 2 starters. I am far from a Mets fan and even I know that. Senga, Quintana, and then a slew of back of the rotation starters.
Look at the large group of FA starters they could add to that mix and now they have enough good prospects that they can trade from that surplus, which was not the case in years past.
Even if they don’t go after Ohtani, there are some great starters on the market. Yamamoto from Japan, Snell, Nola, Urias to name a few.
Pads Fans1 day ago
The Mets need 2 starters.
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Senga should be good, but not great. Quintana is a significant gamble. He will be 35 and had a 4.17 in the 6 years prior to 2023. And Peterson or McGill?
That doesn’t sound like even a league-average rotation. I think the SD rotation are all better than Senga, Darvish’s performance notwithstanding.
Joe, 3.25 ERA is better than good. That is top 12 in the game and makes him a number one starter this season. That is not disputable.
Quintana is a #3 starter. He has a 2.99 ERA over his last 35 starts in 2022 and 2023 and a 3.75 ERA for his career. His current 3.57 ERA may change slightly as the season progresses, but chances are he ends the season with 13 starts and a similar ERA to his career numbers.
Peterson has a 4.31 FIP, .387 BABip, 54.6 GB%, and other peripherals that point to a solid regression of his ERA towards the mean. His 3.38 ERA and 3.64 FIP last year were solid. He is definitely one of the guys that they can use as a #5 or swingman. He will get the start tonight
They have 4-5 other guys that will be competing for #5-#6 slot next season including Lucchesi, Megill, Butto, Jarvis and Vasil. I would not at all be surprised to see Scott in that mix too. .
There will be 5 or 6 guys on the FA market not named Ohtani that are solid #1 or #2 starters and none will cost more than $30 million AAV.
The Mets have long been rumored to be the favorites to land Yamamoto, who will cost $25 million AAV or less and is likely to slot in as a #1 or #2.
That definitely sounds like a rotation that with a couple of additions, one being a #1 or #2 and the other being a #3 or #4 starter that is better than league average. League average is a 4.44 ERA so far this season.
Braack. Wrong answer. But thanks for continuing to make totally uninformed posts.
Mets have Senga and Quintana returning and 4-5 guys that will be competing for the #5 and swing man spots.
All they really need is a legit #2 and an inning eating #4.
Let’s wait for more than 3-4 starts before we fully embrace Quintana as a solid piece in this rotation. He had a solid 2022 with the Cards, to be fair, but I wouldn’t call him a Mets staple yet.
The NYM are #17 in SP ERA & #20 in OPSa.
Taking out Scherzer and Verlander’s ERA, their team ERA is 5.00, good for #26. They need a fair amount of help.
It takes longer than 1-2 years to rebuild from the farm. I get these trades helped that timeline.
Unless he spends 300m again buying a ton of free agents it will be around 4 years before the Mets are back to being a contender.
Prospects don’t always work out. Even if they do a lot of them take time to adjust in the majors. Unless you have true star prospects.
It’s easy to go we will have this guy and this guy coming up so we are good. It just doesn’t work that way. Sometimes it does but sometimes it doesn’t. Just look at the royals and tigers. They had good farms with guys coming up yet they didn’t become instantly good/great players.
You can even look at the dodgers this year. A ton of high end prospects. Mixed results on their performance this year. Doesn’t mean that they won’t be good but the jump to the majors is very difficult. Dodgers can have patience because they already had a good team with legit stars on it.
I think the Mets are doing the right thing but it’s going to require patience. While he has bought himself a year or two the fans will start to become restless in that market sooner than others. We shall see if cohen sticks to the plan and waits for enough prospects to develop at the major league level before switching plans.
If he doesn’t mind continuing to pay for prospects I’d look to move Lindor this offseason as well as Alonso.
Four years from being a contender? It’s not like they sold everyone away. They still have a very talented core of players. They have the best closer in the game coming back next year. They will compete next year.
With what pitching. Unless they got out and buy a bunch of free agents they will not be.
They will add pitchers to the team this off-season. They won’t beat the Braves but they will compete for the playoffs next year and once your in it’s anyone’s for the taking.
A bunch? The Mets have two very good starters in Senga and Quintana and 4-5 guys that will be competing for the back of the rotation including a starter you should know well as Padres fan.
There is a huge group of good starters available in FA and Cohen said they would be signing FA.
After the trades of the over the hill gang, now the Mets have something they have not had in years, a surplus of good prospects. Trades are probable.
The Mets will compete in 2024 and once the majority of that dead money works its way off the payroll after 2024 Cohen can once again go all in.
The Mets have two very good starters in Senga and Quintana
==================================
From 2017-2023, Quintana has a 102 ERA+. He is going to be 35 and injury prone. He is not very good. If they get lucky, he will be league average. FG has his ROS projection to be a 4.10 FIP.
Nice cherry pick. Here is my cherry pick. Quintana has a 2.99 ERA in 35 starts since the beginning of the 2022 season, 3.57 in 3 starts this season. and a 3.75 career ERA. He is a solid #3 or better.
He had a lesion on his rib cage (a benign tumor) in ST and had surgery because of it. Outside of that fluke medical condition in 2023, he has had one full 162 game season when he was not healthy the entire year and required no visits to the IL. He is the antithesis of injury prone.
League average for starting pitchers this year is a 4.44 ERA. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&…
FG has not been within 10% on projections ever. They will admit as much if you ask them. I ask every year for how their projections the previous year worked out.
Wait, who makes up this, “very talented”, core?
You need to get to the end of the game with a lead for a closer to matter.
Francisco Alvarez, Francisco Lindor, Brandon Nimmo, Pete Alonso, Jeff McNeil, Starling Marte, Brett Baty.
That you don’t know who their core is says pretty clearly that you shouldn’t discussing their club.
Mets6986??1 day ago
Francisco Alvarez, Francisco Lindor, Brandon Nimmo, Pete Alonso, Jeff McNeil, Starling Marte, Brett Baty.
===========================
Same guys that they had this year, and they are #18 in RPG.
It might be time for a reality check. The NYMs are #22 and just got swept by KC, and lost 2 of their best pitchers. Cohen can buy his way into relevancy, but right now, the Mets stink.
Joe, Personally, I would not include Baty as part of that core. Those guys have a cumulative 111 OPS+ even with Baty.
Not sure what you think good is, but here is a reality check. That is 11% better than average. Considering McNeil has a 121 career OPS+ and Marte a 116 Career OPS+, both are likely to see a regression towards the mean. In other words play better than they have this season so far.
The entire conversation is how the Mets will be NEXT season, so how they have been so far this season is irrelevant.
“A ton of high end prospects. Mixed results on their performance this year.”
And this is why you need a good and deep system. As you mentioned, other than those 70fv type (and even they fail) prospects, expecting guys to come in and just be productive MLB players from day 1 is setting yourself up for massive disappointment.
Ideally, teams should wait until they have some type of established core in place before spending big, instead of expecting prospects to work out and back fill the holes they’ve left. That was a pretty big reason for the WS failed rebuild.
I think fangraphs did a really solid job of explaining just how uncommon it is for all the prospects to work out the way people seem to think they will
blogs.fangraphs.com/managing-prospect-expectations…
nah, they have a good core, ya hope one of the kids can step up, this years rookies should be even better, diaz! and a few new faces and, Play Ball!
Simm,
The Mets didn’t sell off much other than Scherzer and Verlander.
This offseason will have a bumper crop of FA starters and Cohen has said they will sign FA pitching.
The position players outside of Baty at 3B and McNeil at 2B are performing well. No need for major changes. Could add Marte to that list, but then Stewart and others have played well filling in for him. IF the migraines are gone, no reason to not expect a bounceback from him.
The pen has Diaz returning so they will need at least one addition and possibly two, but that is not hard to do.
The Mets now have the prospect capital to make trades even for top line players.
So pretty much everything you said is wrong.
Actually no, you aren’t paying attention or listening.
What non star pitchers are they going to get to be able to compete next year. Plus they will need position players.
They are trying to build the farm they aren’t going to turn and trade it away next year. 2025 is when they think they can be back at the top. That isn’t going to happen unless they trade away the farm or sign a boat load of people including some stars. Prospects coming up isn’t going to get them there by then.
That is a stupid take. Did you READ what Cohen said? They WILL be signing free agents, they just won’t be going ALL IN on FA. They will be combining FA signings and trades to restock the MLB squad so it doesn’t have to be non star pitchers. There is a large group of very good starting pitchers on the market this offseason including Yamamoto which the Mets are considered the favorite to sign after Eppler has made several trips to Japan to scout him. Don’t forget that it was Eppler who signed Ohtani for the Angels.
Beyond Yamamoto on the FA market there is Snell, Urias, Gray, Lorenzen, Maeda, Montgomery, Nola, Odorizzi, Rodriguez, Paxton, and Stroman. Possibly Wacha, Cobb and others. NONE of them will cost close to what Scherzer or Verlander cost.
Exactly what position players do they need that I didn’t mention? The Mets have a solid core of position players that includes catcher, 1B, 2B, SS, RF, and CF locked up. They have young position players like Baty and Vientos already on the 26-man roster. They need a LF, a backup 3B, and a MI utility player. Three of those very well could be filled internally with Mauricio, Gilbert, and Acuna. Not many teams that have that many positions locked in for 2024 already.
They aren’t trying to build the farm, they BUILT the farm. That was the entire reason behind the trades. It’s now a top ten farm system with great depth both of players close to the majors and highly talented players that are 18 and 19 years old. If it means bringing in someone to fill a position of need, they absolutely WILL trade from it and Eppler said exactly that.
The Mets are looking to contend in 2024. THEN when the dead contracts fall off the payroll after 2024 they will once again go all in to add more stars and build a sustainable long-term contending team. THAT is what Cohen and Eppler have said.
So try to keep your eye on the ball. We are not talking about the Pittsburgh Pirates when it comes to money. We are talking about the Mets who are owned by the richest man in baseball.
Do you really think most of the people on this site actually READ the article before commenting?
I don’t think Uncle Stevie as popular with Mets fans after reversing course. From hero to zero.
I have zero problems with him. He is trying. Gave us a good season last year and has me excited for the future.
Does that take into account all the LOL moments?
Like the moments on here we’re fans have exhausted the lolmets comments and are being drama queens?
Agree or disagree with method or philosophy on how to win, Cohen seems eager to win. He’s shown he’s willing to spend. After the 2022 season it made sense to go all-in. Mets have an owner that seems to be committed. Can’t say that for all 30 teams.
The contract that he gave out never made sense, no matter where your team is on a win curve.
He handed the Astros Justin Verlander at a 50% discount. Cohen is a disaster. The other teams are def not laughing out loud.
They paid with two really good prospects. If you think it’s good for the Astros long term success to save money by mortgaging the future is good , then have at it. The Astros will be tearing down the team within 2-3 years.
The Astros have been good for a decade. At some point they will have to rebuild because that’s an inevitable part of the game.
yes, since 2015… and from 2009-14 they were terrible. And people mocked their strategy then too, but it worked. Doesn’t always, but it has for them.
A 45 fv prospect is not a, “really good prospect”.
45fv is a floor
That’s a MLB starting player
You really are stretching it there
Whose ranking system are you using? MLB has Gilbert at 55 and Clifford at 50, and most publications see him as on the rise (and maybe the better upside of the two). Baseball America has both at 50. Any other publication, I personally wouldn’t give a lot of credence to when it comes to prospect rankings, especially Fangraphs.
Who’s got a 45 rating that your referring too?
@Ma4170 Fangraphs, who is known to add bias to rankings just to make certain teams look worse?
Surely they wouldn’t do that.
It’s not a floor…that’s not how fv ratings work, at all. the only stretch, is you pretending you understand prospect evaluation.
Wait, so which teams does fangraphs have a bias against and make their prospects look worse? I’d love to hear your list.
Any prospect can possibly fail until he fully established himself in the Majors. There’s no such thing as a “floor” for them unless you define it as being a complete bust.
A 55 FV prospect like Gilbert is a really good prospect.
50 FV is a MLB average player.
When MLB, BA, and BP have consistently higher rankings than FG it says clearly how little value FG rankings carry.
How do you know evaluations when you don’t even know what fangraphs has them evaluated at?
Fangraphs doesn’t even have their own scouts. They are going off of other peoples opinions.
Both these guys are solid prospects with high ceilings, but they’re both still in A ball. So ETA 2026? Fits Cohen’s new timeline if the Mets’ farm system can continue to develop them — not at all a foregone conclusion.
Point being neither is a 45, at least according to BA and MLB, who I trust more.
Gilbert is in AA. baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=gil…
@Ma – exactly. MLB has 55’s in the top 10, so there’s a wide span of prospects that could jump or fall – quickly.
Considering that over 50% of top 3 round draft picks fail to even make it to the majors…
Projection as an above-average MLB regular is a really good prospect.
77% of 1st round picks make the majors.
I thought MLB trade rumors mentioned the Astros had several top outfield prospects and could afford to trade move some.
I still don’t get why the Cubs – who kept saying they needed a lefty arm in the bullpen – couldn’t pull off a trade for Raley. I know that cheapskate Ricketts doesn’t want to go over the luxury tax line, but c’mon. Not gonna make or break the Cubs season, but if you’re going for it, I say go for it.
I don’t think the Mets really ever considered Raley as tradeable. He is a quality bullpen arm locked up through next season. The Mets only traded players on walk years and old pitchers that they realized they over paid.
I fully expect them to be in on Ohtani so I am wondering if this very public discussion is meant to take them off the radar of other Ohtani suitors.
Honestly, I think the first day of free agency the Mets hand Ohtani an offer of 8 years at $50 million per year.
I’m not sure that a $400 million contract offer for Ohtani makes the “maybe” pile.. especially for an East Coast team.
Perception: “Mets are gonna sign Ohtani!”
Reality: Ohtani will return to Japan before he ever considers signing for a ballclub on the East Coast.
I don’t see ohtani signing with the Mets either. Dodgers or Giants seem most likely imo. That said, if you ask me, ohtani will sign with an east coast club before he even considers leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table to return to NPB.
My comment back in March when Cohen spending was all the rage.
“we’ll see how good this team really is”
I take pride in knowing the Mets better than most Met fans.
As a fan I appreciate Cohen’s candor. Scherzer had to go. It was obvious that he lost something on his pitches his slider in particular,and was blaming Alvarez who is a kid. Or blaming the pitch clock. He was an explosion waiting to happen. Verlander on the other hand was in my opinion a safer option then deGrom in free agency and that proved true. I feel that he wasn’t at home in NYC. He was a hired gun at this point in his career and I don’t think he embraced that. He never wanted to leave Houston. The prospect return is a bit underwhelming considering all the money they ate but time will tell. What worries me about this pivot is how will future FA’s view the Mets after watching this. My gut tells me money will always talk but it’s gotta give you some pause as a player before signing. The difference between Steinbrener and Cohen is Cohen is a hedge fund guy so it’s more about numbers where as George let alot of emotion into his decisions. As I said at the top I love Cohen’s honesty. Don’t like the moves as a fan but I understand why he blew it up
Agree with you Chris. Max has been hanging sliders this year and watching them go yard. He became a malcontent in a hurry and would have been a clubhouse cancer. Your observation on Verlander is spot on. He never felt like a Met. As a baseball fan it was truly awesome to see 2 sure lock HOFers on the same staff, even if they were in decline. As far as future FAs, there’s always an allure to playing in NYC, so not seeing a problem, even with Cohen.
You must have forgotten the 80’s when top-tier free agents shunned the Yankees because Steinbrenner was so mercurial.
I don’t think it’ll effect FAs signing with the Mets as long as a NTC is in the deal. For every Max, there is an E-Rod who can veto a trade. Some others might but I also don’t think is Cohen going to use public-sway to force a player to lift his NTC.
It would be funny and actually completely plausible if the mid-tier and below free agents they sign this offseason wind up playing better in 2024 than the players they signed with their huge spending last offseason have here in 2023, thus allowing the 2024 Mets to finish with a winning record if not a playoff spot.
This only happened because they didn’t get Correa.
Mets are a joke lol
“…because I’m carrying a lot of dead money.”
=============================
That seems like a shot at Scherzer. The Mets are only carrying three dead contracts in 2024, and one of them is Scherzer.
Hey may be speaking about this year’s dead money too. 35.5 million to Max. 52.5 million to Verlander. 19 million to McCann. Cano at 24 million. Chris Flexen at 8 million. 4.4 million to Escobar. 3.3 million to Canha. Close to a million to Pham. 1.19 million yearly to Bonilla.
That’s a ton of dead money.
Fair enough too. I’ll take your 86m, underperform, and then go out throwing you under a bus with your fans. Boras was probably coaching him but still…..d&ck move.
Right? I hope it was a shot at Scherzer
Absolutely. I got respect for what the Mets are doing.
Huge difference between not going all in on free agents and not fielding a playoff caliber team. The Mets have no need to go all in on free agents and asking that particular question showed Scherzer had a startling lack of understanding of how to build a team.
If I was a Mets fan I would be glad to have a cheating clubhouse cancer like Scherzer off the team.
How do I know he was a cancer? Not one Mets player has said they are sorry to see him go. After how well he pitched last season you would think someone, at least one guy, would express regret that he was traded. It hasn’t happened. Their silence speaks volumes.
Pitchers, especially Max, aren’t really clubhouse cancers or boons. Max is intense and by all accounts a tough guy to be pals with, but he’s a pitcher doing his own thing most of the time. I think it’s unfair to call him a clubhouse cancer. He likely has 0 presence in the clubhouse one way or the other.
just not an ace anymore
Scherzer showed pretty clearly that he was a cancer with his parting shot of sharing a private conversation with the world. He didn’t need to say a thing. He chose to be a prlck.
I didn’t see it as a parting shot. He was going to be criticized for giving up on the Mets, so he gave his honest answer. He didn’t quit because the Mets were struggling, he left because they’re in a rebuild. Cohen and Eppler made the same comments publicly in the following few days.
Both the owner and the GM said they are NOT in a rebuild. Did you read Cohen’s interview or what Eppler said after the trade?
Scherzer did not even ASK if the team was going to try to be competitive in 2024. He asked if they were going all in on FREE AGENTS. Of course they aren’t. They have no reason to do that. The core of the team was there already and they will be getting Diaz back healthy in 2024.
He didn’t leave, he was traded away. The Mets thought so little of him that they were willing to PAY to get rid of him. Think about that.
Yes, it was meant as a parting shot. LISTEN to the interview and you will hear that clearly.
Scherzer cheated and then tried to throw the team under the bus for his own failings on the way out the door.
If a player making $43 million and expected to lead the rotation has 0 presence in the clubhouse that is an indictment of that player. Veterans are expected to lead.
Last, but not least, not one single player has said they will miss what he brought to the team. Not one. He was a cancer in the clubhouse.
He didn’t throw his team under the bus. He was told they were rebuilding. He was asked a question and answered. I don’t even like Max, but it’s ridiculous that he’s being attacked for his comments. He should be attacked for failing to show up for big games for the Mets though.
NO. He was NOT told they were rebuilding He didn’t even ASK if they were rebuilding.
READ the interview with Cohen. Scherzer asked if the Mets were “GOING ALL IN on FREE AGENTS” in the offseason. Cohen said he couldn’t promise that.
There is a HUGE difference between not going all in on free agents and starting a rebuild. Why would the Mets need to go all in on free agents? Why do you think its a rebuild when the only players that were traded were under performing, over paid, older players?
With Alvarez, Alonso, McNeil, Lindor, Nimmo, and several young players the Mets position player core is strong. When Marte returns from the Migraines healthy its even stronger. Not a lot of holes there that cannot be easily address without going all in on free agents.
The pitching staff was not good this season and Scherzer was a big part of that. They lost a great closer this season. Diaz will be back in 2024. They also lost Quintana for most of the season so far. Carrasco pitched poorly. Peterson did not get the results they saw from him last year, although his 4.31 FIP and other peripherals point to a regression to the mean. He should be just fine as a back of the rotation starter or swing man going forward. Lucchesi is throwing again and should make a rehab start today. He can be a valuable back of the rotation starter or swing man as well.
Scherzer should be attacked for many things INCLUDING sharing private information he was given after the trade. It was a punk move. Winners don’t do that.
Winners don’t go whining to the owner when they are at fault for a large part of the team’s problems. Scherzer was a cheater who was not pitching well and being paid a huge amount of money and the Mets got him off the team. The fact that the players are completely silent about him leaving says volumes. They have said they were sorry to see Verlander go, but not Scherzer. What does that tell you ?
Cohen said he WILL spend on free agents in the offseason, just MAYBE not at the same level he did in the past. The 2 middle of the rotation starters, two middle relievers, and backup infielders they stand in need of should not require going all in on free agents.
Literally everything Scherzer said was wrong. He is a jilted lover who is trying to throw Cohen and the Mets under the bus for his own failings.
Scherzer asked if the Mets were “GOING ALL IN on FREE AGENTS” in the offseason.
==============================
To be honest, it is embarrassing to even raise that question. Cohen spent $350-385M on the payroll, including making Scherzer the highest paid player in BB.
And he is asking Cohen if he is prepared to “go all-in”? If $385M is not “all-in”, then what is?
It was embarrassing for Scherzer to even ask that question.
I need to amend that, Robertson was not an under performing player, just a very old one.
Mets are at $331 million in payroll so Scherzer the genius, after costing the team wins by cheating and then pitching like a back of the rotation starter the rest of the first half, asks the owner of the team if he is “going all-in on free agents in the offseason”.
OF COURSE not you freaking moron. The team didn’t need to go all in if YOU had pitched up to what they were paying you and hadn’t cheated and got suspended.
Add Diaz’s injury and all the veterans that played like garbage this season and everyone has seen the result. What did Scherzer expect him to say? ” Yeah, I plan to take payroll over $400 million in 2024 even though the guys I paid big money for this year have all stunk”
Cohen did the right thing. He got rid of people like Scherzer that were not performing but making huge dollars. He refilled his farm system so he has prospects to fill holes or to trade, something they have not had the luxury of doing since he bought the team. Most importantly he got rid of the malcontents like Scherzer and Pham.
2024 will not be a write off season for the Mets. They have the core of the team intact. They need 2 starting pitchers. Their closer is returning. Most of the non-performing players have been shipped out for prospects including Scherzer, Escobar and Canha.
With about $100 million cleared off the books for 2024 the Mets are in a pretty good position to bring in a few good players in FA or trade and still compete in 2024 and beyond.
Are you from New York because that sounds like something a New Yorker would say. A total takedown of Scherzer and the lolmets crowd.
Also, why is it that a Padres fan understands what’s going on with the Mets better than most of the so called Mets fans on here.
Going to be an interesting offseason in NY with the Mets and Yankees both having missed the playoffs. I can’t remember too many times that happened.
Not at all. My wife and I live in Bonsall, a rural area about 45 minutes north of San Diego. I pay attention to whats going on with other teams because it effects the Padres and I love the game.
Beautiful area. Love that whole area from Bonsall to Fallbrook to Valley Center
at least cohen saw the writing on the wall. as a yankee fan i wish hal would do the same. the yankees are stuck in a not-quite-competitive-not-quite-retooling limbo and the only way out is to spend serious money to dump roster-clogging contracts, collect a few prospects, and go after the next round of free agents including ohtani
I think the Mets will be better off in short term without these guys and in the long run as well. I like what they did this week. You can call it addition by subtraction if you want I think the guys taking these spots will be better. This should work out for the Mets.
This is not a rebuild.
Breaking news: The Mets will still suck in 2025-26.
Something tells me Alonso is gone this offseason. He’s going to be a free agent at the end of the year and his production can probably be replaced at something cheaper than $15m.
Alonso is not a free agent until after 2024. Not getting 123 OPS+ and 40 HR for less than he is making in 2023.
No but he is going to make a lot more in 25. They may not trade him in the off-season but at next deadline is a real possibility
I don’t see the Mets trading Alonso. He is part of their core of players and they are going to compete in 2024.
So is the plan to tank rest of season? To do what they’re doing to their veteran players like Lindor, Alonso and McNiel is an embarrassment to the team. Fire Eppler now. Swept by the Royals
Of those three, only Alonso doesn’t deserve the humiliation. Lindor and McNeil did it to themselves.
Lindor has 4.0 WAR and is on pace for his second straight 5++ WAR season. Nothing wrong with his game
McNeil is a different story. He has been bad. 86 OPS+ combined with below average defense at 2B has resulted in a nightmare season.
No matter how you try to paint it, a player who eats up about 10% of an entire payroll should be more consistent and produce a lot more than Lindor. Yes, there is something wrong with his game.
Whynot, do you understand what a 5-6 WAR means? Right now Lindor is the 2nd best SS in baseball.
Last season he was a 5.5 WAR player and he will be a 5.5 to 6.0 WAR player this season too. That is consistently playing at a superstar level.
There is something wrong with your understanding of MLB. There is nothing wrong with Lindor’s game. He is at the top of the list of shortstops in the game.
When you sign for 10 yrs $341MM, doing what’s good for the team is a distant thought
Being the 2nd best SS in the game is not doing whats good for the team?
The Lindor contract lol
Has been good. 8.5 WAR in the first 2 season and is on pace for a 6.0 WAR in 2023. He is not a problem for the Mets and is earning his salary unlike guys like Scherzer, Escobar, and Canha.
Lindor has a 3.7 fwar which is still decent to good for him. He is not going to get to 6 but maybe 5. That’s still a pretty good season.
Think people’s issue with him is he should have a much better batting avg. his wrc+ is 116, not bad but it was 122 last year. So good but not great year for him.
It’s the length and amount: TEN years $341MM
That’s just the cost of signing good to great free agent short stops. That’s what the market is for those players. Can say it’s too much or too long but that’s the case for most of them.
Tatis, Seager, Xander, Correa, Turner Baez, that’s what you pay for short stops of his caliber specially at the time is was signed. Your other choice is to have players in their first 6 years or stop gap guys.
By fWAR, Lindor was the best SS in baseball last season and has a 3.8 fWAR this season. That means he is top 3 and in a virtual tie for #1 with Wander Franco who has a 4.0 fWAR. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&#…
By bWAR he is #2 with a 4.0 WAR behind only Franco and his 4.9 bWAR.
There is 33% of the season left. He is on pace for 6.0 bWAR and 5,7 to 5.8 fWAR.
A 5 WAR of either type is not just pretty good. 4.0 is considered All Star. So being on pace for 6.0 bWAR he is playing at 50% better than All Star level. So another EXCEPTIONAL season for Lindor.
Out of 7 full seasons in the majors, (2015 he was called up in June and 2020 was a short season because of COVID) Lindor will have had 5 seasons with a 5+ bWAR. Exceptional consistency.
On his current contract that started with the 2022 season he has produced 9.5 bWAR or about $87 million in value for the Mets so far and the 2023 season is not over.
His offense has been down. You can talk all you want about war specially bwar but he is having a below avg offensive year for him. Obviously still above avg.
A run prevented is worth the same as a run scored. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.
He is top 1-2 in the game as a shortstop. End of conversation.
He has a 3.8 fWAR
It must be nice.
“We will be competitive in ’24”, Cohen wrote. “Lots of pitching in free agency in ’24. More payroll flexibility in ’25.
Combine that with the quotes in this article from him and I have no idea where people here are getting the idea that the Mets are rebuilding, They aren’t.
They are planning on competing in 2024 by going after FA pitching which will be substantially cheaper than the two Cohen just shipped out even after paying some of their salary to get rid of them and then seeing more young players impact the team in 2025 and beyond.