The Cardinals have received trade inquiries on switch-hitting outfielder Dylan Carlson from multiple clubs, per Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, with the Blue Jays being identified as one of them.
It would appear to be a fairly logical pairing, since the Cardinals are hoping to add multiple starting pitchers and are reportedly willing to considering trading position players in order to do so, with the Yankees having interest in outfielder Alec Burleson and utility player Brendan Donovan. The Jays, meanwhile, are hoping to add multiple position players this winter. The Red Birds and Blue Birds have also been fairly regular trade partners. Last year, they lined up on three separate deals, with the Jays acquiring Génesis Cabrera, Jordan Hicks and Paul DeJong. They also made four other deals from 2017 to 2021.
Trading Carlson would be a sell-low move for the Cardinals at this point, given the results of the past two years. They used the 33rd overall pick to draft him in the 2016 draft and he became one of the club’s top prospects while in the minors, generally considered a player who was good at everything but without a standout tool, showing some good form at the plate, in the field and on the bases.
He got a brief debut in the shortened 2020 season but seemed to break out in 2021. Getting into 149 contests in that season, he walked at a solid 9.2% clip and hit 18 home runs. His .266/.343/.437 batting line translated to a wRC+ of 111, indicating he was 11% better than the league average hitter. He split his time between all three outfield positions and was considered around average on defense, leading to a tally of 2.5 wins above replacement from FanGraphs.
In 2022, there were mixed results. On the positive side, he lowered his strikeout rate from 24.6% to 19.3% while keeping his walk rate steady and his defensive grades were slightly better. But he made multiple trips to the injured list, getting sidelined by a left hamstring strain and a left thumb sprain. He was limited to 128 games and just eight home runs but still produced 2.5 fWAR thanks to his improved defense.
But 2023 was unquestionably a disappointing campaign. He suffered an ankle sprain in May and went on the injured list for almost a month. Though he returned in June, the issue didn’t go away and he eventually required surgery later in the year. While on the field, he hit just .219/.318/.333 for a wRC+ of 84, but it’s fair to speculate about the ankle causing some of those results.
Carlson still has three years of club control left, qualifying for arbitration for the first time this winter. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects a salary of $1.8MM for 2024, with two further arb years slated to follow. Moving on from a former first-round pick while he’s still young and affordable would likely be tough for the Cards, especially with his value somewhat weakened by the ankle surgery. But their desire for pitching and their position player surplus may put it on the table.
Even if Carlson were removed, the club would still have Burleson, Donovan, Tyler O’Neill, Lars Nootbaar, Jordan Walker, Tommy Edman and Richie Palacios competing for outfield jobs, with Juan Yepez, Moises Gomez and Michael Siani also on the roster. Some of those players are also capable of playing on the infield, but the club has Nolan Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Masyn Winn potentially lined up on the dirt. That may put them in a position to move one or more of these players while still fielding a strong lineup.
The Blue Jays, as mentioned, are looking to acquire some position players this winter. Carlson could perhaps bolster the Toronto outfield, which just lost Kevin Kiermaier to free agency. But whether they can provide the starting pitching that is coveted in St. Louis is an interesting question.
The Jays have four rotation spots filled by Kevin Gausman, José Berríos, Chris Bassitt and Yusei Kikuchi but a question mark for the fifth. The Cards would likely have varying degrees of interest in someone from that group, but the Jays might not want to open a second question mark in their rotation. Speculatively speaking, Alek Manoah could be an interesting fit for these talks, since he’s also a former top prospect coming off a down year.
He posted a 5.87 ERA in 2023 while getting optioned to the minors multiple times as his relationship with the club appeared to sour. He is still a year away from qualifying for arbitration but his circumstances are vaguely analogous to Carlson since both are still affordable and controllable but coming off frustration campaigns, albeit for different reasons. Toronto’s GM Ross Atkins said yesterday that Manoah should have the inside track on a rotation job, but the club also has other options like Mitch White, Bowden Francis and prospect Ricky Tiedemann, while they could also look to bolster that group in free agency.
That’s pure speculation and the clubs are likely discussing various scenarios, with the Cards fielding plenty of calls from clubs around the league. Carlson received interest from the Yankees and Orioles last year and it stands to reason those clubs would likely be interested again. This winter’s free agent class is generally considered weak on the position player side, which could position the Cards to use their many talented players to improve their pitching staff as they look to bounce back from a disappointing 2023 campaign.
Carlson for Manoah works for me. Both need a change of scenery as far as I’m concerned. Carlson won’t be getting playing time so he’s not going to raise his trade value while with the Cardinals.
Frankly, I’d be fine with Carlson and O’Neill for Manoah. He’s a nice chance to take for something you are never going to use.
Im a jays fan so im biased but i dont see it as a stright 1 for 1 manoah for carlson i thibk the cards add more but including oneil is too much aswell. I think thats the basic framwork tho with the jays adding a decent prospent and a lotto tickt type maybe
Both Onieill and Carslon arent very good. It doesnt make sense why the Jays do this. Manoah has multiple years left. There is no reason to sell low after a bad year. Hell just sign Gurriel as a FA, and you already beat the trade and keep Manoah.
Yes please do. Manoah is horrible. Cardinals are insane if they give up Anything of value for this guy. Come on Mozeliak if you can’t do better than this guy I hope you just keep Carlson and do nothing. This would be an immediate mistake and a waste of a roster spot. I would rather have the outfield of it can’t hit, but is above average on defense and plays hard.
O’Neill is great when he’s healthy. He just hasn’t been healthy much over the last two years (including times he’s played with a hurt back).
This. Trading with the Cardinals for outfielders has not really worked out for the Jays in the past.
I don’t see a 1-1 either, but also don’t see Tyler being a throw in here either. Wonder if Moises Gomez or Juan Yepez could be interesting? Both are never gonna get a shot in the majors with the Cardinals, and Gomez has hit 69 homers in the last 2 years in the minors.
The jays have no OF prospects of note above Aball and the 1 they have is elite speed CF trying to digure out the bat. The next beat thing is there 3/4 prospect Barger who has been a 3b/SS who fot RF reps tgis year to find him big league time
You forgot about Roden who surged through A and AA ball last year and should start at AAA this year. Good looking OF
If Adolis Garcia can make it after being given a chance, then Yepez and Gomez can also.
Honestly what happened to Manoah this year he was truly awful. I don’t watch enough Toronto games to have an opinion just curious what you think and is it fixable? I know there was some feeling he struggled with the pitch clock and pitched at glacial pace before but damn he was really bad this year.
It seems like conditioning is the most likely issue problem. Hopefully the terrible season will motivate him to get into shape.
too fat to perform
Falling off the edge of the Cliff in one off season is a really bad sign that there are other issues. I wouldn’t even give you Juan Yepez for him.
Thank you guys for making me laugh though with the Carlson AND O’Neil for Manoah idea. Hilarious!
this right here. Or he’s a drinker. Those are my first two thoughts when I see something like this.
Not knocking the man but it’s possible he doesn’t care all that much about pitching in the major leagues. we tend to just assume that everyone would sell their soul to play major-league ball, but it’s just not true.
Cards would be dumb to trade 2 OF, they dont have that much depth. But they’re pretty dumb and their little napoleon manager doesnt like O’Neill so yeah, throw in a decent reliever and they’d do it
They have quite a bit of OF depth. Even without O’Neill or Carlson, they still have Nootbaar and Walker to start at two spots, while either Donovan or Edman can also play the grass when needed, which could be quite a bit if they still plan to start Winn at SS and Gorman at 2B most of the time.. They also have Burleson if he can develop further, although he’s only a bench option at present.
I’m not sure I do Carlson for Manoah in a 1 for 1 tbh. Manoah looked bad vs 2A pitching. Carlson still plays good defense and kills LHP. Both guys have had good seasons. But I’d rather have Carlson. I think the Cardinals trade him, and I think they’ll regret it
No Thanks !!
If they want Manoah, Gorman and Nootbars comes our way…..Manoah still hold high value….
Cards wouldn’t move Nootbar nor Gorman for Manoah much less both. Manoah hasn’t impresssed for a while. By the way Carlson is a better defender than suggested. He can play centro.
Calson, center… no? He’ll allow to many gappers better route takers would flag easily…
Ah thanks, I needed a laugh
@to4
That’s hilarious. You don’t get Gorman or Nootbaar for Manoah one for one. Just say the Jays have absolutely no interest in trading for position players. It would have the same result.
you need to put down that special pipe.
And you need to be more direct on telling who exactly needs to put down the pipe, otherwise it’s just a piece of fortune cookie advice with FTX on the back
“And you there! Yes you! Stand still laddie!” -Rodger Waters Pink Floyd The Wall
@to4- Manoah has pretty much no value. He is extremely high risk. He can’t locate anymore, is down a MPH from 2022, can’t get batters to whiff or chase, and it’s actually surprising his HR wasn’t higher given his barrel rate and flyball rate. To top it off, he can’t stay in shape.
Bwaaaaaaa! Oh no you didn’t. A little bit of day drinking their brother? Oh, I gotta go to the other board where they were trying to trade Nolan Gorman for Bryce Miller and let them know that is by no means the dumbest thing I have heard now. Wow!
Gorman isn’t enough for Miller. Try again.
Gormans going nowhere.
What does Manoah come with his own brewery and dispensary?
“If they want Manoah, Gorman and Nootbars comes our way…..Manoah still hold high value…”
LOL!.
Ezekiel Ezekiel, where art thou now? Winning ALCS MVP instead of NLCS? Sold for 30 pieces of silver… #53 the curse of the great bombi… “both of them”
“Oh hey look a butterfly?” No, that’s no butterfly John…. it’s Tyler O’Neill and Harrison Baders projections
Blame it on Oscar Taveras…. and his drunken joyride to hell
P.S. Mike Shildt says “hi how you f-ing doing?”
The Cardinals would have been better off partnering with trans influencer Dylan Mulvany…. than to have had a clubhouse with a loose camera, loose cannon, and a boomstick for good measure? Clean 4 game sweep incoming… Mop it up
John The Baptist
I’m boycotting the Cardinals for being to broke to have a proper translator for Randy Arozarena….
#gowokegobroke
Clearly John the Baptist has lost his head. Seek therapy John, seek therapy
O’Neil is garbage.
Carlson for Manoah makes some sense but I think the Cardinals would have to throw in a little more however…. If the Jays are willing to trade Manoah that would be a huge red flag and I would run the opposite direction.
Carlson is coming off two bad years and there is no way the Jays would be willing to trade a guy who was a Top of the Rotation starter just two years ago, with more team control if they thought for one second he could regain his form.
Risk for risk is the way I see it. Manoah looked really bad last year. Carlson has never had negative WAR. Carlson had 2.0 WAR in 2022 and .5 WAR last year. Manoah had -1.1 WAR last year.
Cards trade of Carlson for P Eli Morgan of the Guardians is all but done
Dylan Carlson has plateaued and is a good change of scenery candidate.
The Guardians at “in” on Carlson
?
It’s only selling low if the guy eventually will do better. There is no guarantee that Carlson will ever be better than he is right now.
It’s selling low because he already HAS been better.
But you cannot sell him in the past. My point is that his value RIGHT NOW might be as high as it ever will be again. Yes you could have sold him higher in the past, but unless he rebounds, his trade value will never be higher than right now.
@Hiflew, it cam also be said it is selling low on Carlson. And as for Manoah his value could also be higher than it will ever be again. This applies to every single player, trades can go either way.
As for this trade, I don’t see Carlson being anywhere near enough. Manoah’s value is obviously down, but a SP who has had the success he’s had at MLB level and 4 years of team control only dip so far.
St. Louis needs pitching so I would trade either O’Neill or Carlson for Manoah and a prospect
Wait you think O’Neil or Carlson is worth more than Manoah?
Well Carlson throws the ball harder than 90 mph Manoah was topping out at. Carlson was productive against lefties and above average defense, Manoah got lit up in the lower minors and has an attitude problem or a mental deficiency for being mad at a team for sending down an almost 6 Era. The potential is definitely higher with Manoah but he’s also such a headache and purposefully drills guys. All of thats cool when he’s competing for a Cy but dang does it look bad when hes struggling.
Manoah had a prime. Carlson hasn’t.
You and Manoah are the only two people delusional enough to not realize how incredibly bad he was last year. Dude was pitching worse in A ball than he was in the show, could barely touch 90 and is like 300 pounds
Yep, he was bad. He also finished third in Cy young voting in 2022 and has multiple years of control. O’Neil has been injured or putrid outside of 2021 and has 1 year left and Carlson pretty much has played replacement level baseball for 3 years. He’s still young, so definitely would have more appeal than O’Neil. I don’t think either of them on their own would be worth Manoah. It’s probably not all that close either.
“You and Manoah are the only two people delusional enough to not realize how incredibly bad he was last year. Dude was pitching worse in A ball than he was in the show, could barely touch 90 and is like 300 pounds”
And being like 300 pounds is exactly why Manoah needs to pitch for the Cardinals. The heat and humidity of a Saint Louis summer will cause him to experience a massive weight loss.
I do. How long has it been since Manoa has shown his former self?
Braves need to be in on Carlson
no they dont lol
I think there’s a good possibility that Carlson will thrive with a change of scenery. I think both he and O’Neill are burned with the Cardinals. I like Carlson the best of the two but Marmol has soured on both of them. The Braves might be just the team to turn him around.
A good pitching prospect would definately get Carlson from the Cardinals.
No. If the Jays trade chip is a starter, then the priority is 3rd base.
2 of the jays top 5 prospects are 3b i honestly believe they fill that spot internally with 1 of those 2, have Biggio IF/OF utility and Schnider the back up infielder who get plenty of ABs. The young 3b becomes backup SS
They just prospects. Need proven known quantity at the hot corner with power. LF is easier to fill.
Carlson-Manoah kind of makes sense. Both are better than their 2023s indicated, both clubs (and fanbases) are probably a bit down on them, both might be change-of-scenery guys. And a cheap way for both clubs to tick of part of the offseason early and before they get bid up
Be interesting to see if it happens
It actually makes no sense. Manoah has actually performed at the big league level, and to a high degree. Carlson has shown nothing at the big league level, with a good amount of playing time. I think Randall Grichuk is a FA, no?
Saying that Carlson has shown “nothing” at the big league level isn’t true. Two years ago he was almost NL ROY. Even a year ago, he was a decent glove with about league average hitting. Does that translate into a 1-1 trade for Manoah? I wouldn’t do that if I were the Jays. Maybe Carlson and another piece. But he’s not useless. And who knows? Maybe he hits better indoors. Plus, Manoah isn’t guaranteed to be good again. He looked horrible this year when he was in the majors.
Cq1234, you are correct in your assessment. I think that Carlson can still be a very good player if he is in the right environment and is healthy. In addition to his injuries I believe that he lost his confidence under the current coaching group. I hope he gets another opportunity.
Catch, if you read the story, you’ll see that Carlson has performed well, prior to the 2023 season.
He hasn’t performed well since 2021. 2022 wasn’t a good year for him by any measure. He has very little value at this point.
Wrong. He had 2.5 WAR in 2022. Average offense and above average CF defense is a solid player. And he’s still only 24.
Why would he do that? Would ruin the hot take.
You have defined a quality back up player.
Hes a decent CF and every club needs 4 starter-calibre OFs. Not 4 stars but 4 starters.
Carlson and O’Neill have both been jerked around quite a bit by Marmol. Many promises were made and many promises were broken. It has to be deflating. I think both will improve with a change of scenery. San Diego should check in. They both thrived under Shildt.
Marmol is costing STL. They need to move him on before he decides to air any more of his little grievances in public.
I’m not a fan of the way Marmol destroyed the defense by moving players around the field constantly. I also hate the way he blindly follows the platoon splits without looking at the splits for the individual players. Even if a left hander has been hitting left handed pitching well, Marmol will still pinch hit a with a right handed batter who hasn’t been hitting anyone.
Hes the antishildt. All matchups and no old school instinct. Surely there are managers who operate somewhere between these extremes?
Wrong, WAR isnt everything, and will be nice once people realize this. I know the OPS+ was 99, but all of the offensive numbers spell out a well below average player, and the park adjustment just made it seem a little better tjan it wad. And good defense is nice, but he’s basically a backup at best unless he turns things around.
I don’t think it makes much sense at all from the Blue Jays’ perspective. While you could argue that Manoah’s value is that low, if you aren’t getting back someone who profiles as an everyday player or has a clear difficult to find skill set, pitching depth is too valuable to give up. Manoah might bounce back to being an above average starter, but even if he doesn’t, he has options and a major league opportunity figures to arise even if he’s only a number 6 guy. The Jays aren’t actually swimming in starting pitching depth. Unless they add in free agency in order to create a surplus, I don’t see why they would weaken their depth. There’s nothing wrong with Carlson, but if St. Louis is looking for a legitimate candidate for their rotation as the return, Toronto isn’t really a great match.
Now if someone like Nootbaar or Gorman were on the table, then you start considering trading a higher value guy like Tiedemann. You’d probably want to supplement your pitching in free agency in that case.
Blue Jays have a solid track record of acquiring Cardinals high-ceiling, low realization position players. Why not add Carlson to the list and make it an outfield trifecta with Rasmus and Grichuk?
Varsho completed the trifecta.
If I’m the Jays, I say no to Manoah for Carlson.
obviously. That said Atkins said yes for Gurriel and Moreno for Varsho so you gotta give it a shot if you are the Cards.
Dig – it’s concerning the Jays didn’t properly evaluate Moreno. That’s a big mistake – kid can play.
I cant think of a worse fit for the Jays.
The Cardinals have trade away a lot of talent lately. Including two big bats and two aces…..Alcantara, Gallen, Adolis Garcia y Randy Arozarena……what they need to do is, sign pitching and more pitching and keep their Bats….Flaherty, Giolito, Maeda seem to be some good buy low options and of course….we know the rest of the market is pretty high and deep.
Arozarena, Garcia, Walker
Arenado, Edman, Gorman, Goldschmidt, O’Neill DH, Contreras
Nootbaar, Carlson, Donovan of the bench…….that could’ve been some team !!
What the Cardinals need most is a front office that recognizes talent when they have it.
They do and that’s what scares them. They’re afraid they’ll have to pay them top dollar some day!
Carlson has had a couple fluke injuries including his wrist which sapped his power. He will be a very solid player if he can get healthy. Also plays above average defense. Whoever gets him will be smart if they can buy low. O’Neill also can’t stay healthy. One great season but nothing since. Manoah was horrible last year but were injuries the problem? If not injured, he def needs a fresh start elsewhere.
Even when he’s healthy, the real issue with Carlson has been that he hasn’t hit RHP very well for the past two years. He may even need to give up switch-hitting at some point. While a good defensive CF who kills lefties still has value, he still may never be more than a short-side platoon player for a contending team outside of that promising rookie year of 2021.
When I look at Carlson’s numbers, there’s not much impressive at all until I look at the splits and I really like his profile from the right side. With a switch hitter, how do you tell if a guy is bad vs. right handed pitching or just a bad left handed hitter? I guess there’s a reason he still chooses to bat from the left side against righties, but I don’t think a team is going to consider him as more than a weak side of the platoon option. Do you see anything more possible with him? Even with his poor performance from the left side dragging some of the performance indicators down, I’m not seeing what the real upside is. It seems he’s already making the most of his raw abilities from the right side. I guess if there was a way to break through from the left side, there’s a good major league regular there, but do you see a real path to it?
Vlad, a huge question mark, and two could-be-players for that Cards package? Zero chance Cardinals do that deal. None.
Who are there young “stars.”
that trade proposal is the only delusional thing I see here jaysfan…
The Cardinals end would bring much more elsewhere so yah, pretty delusional.
you need to put down the Playstation controller. MLBTheShow isn’t a real barometer. The ENTIRE trade is asinine.
Let’s start with Arenado, Goldschmidt, and Contreras all have hefty contracts and full no trade protection. Do they want to play in Toronto? Does Toronto want to pay aging stars?
Guerrero is a fine player who has declined as he has put on weight…at 24 years old. I still believe he has potential to be an elite player and holds tremendous value, but has only 2 years of control. If the Cardinals trade everything you are proposing, they aren’t near contention in 2 years.
Manoah was a high-end Starter 2 years ago. Last year he was terrible in A-ball and glaringly out of shape. Manoah is now a high-ceiling lottery ticket.
O’Neill is injury prone and has one year before becoming a FA. Nice player when healthy, but not a ton of value.
Gorman has the most value of anyone in this deal, based on cost, age, control and upside, that includes any Jays prospects that you want to include, not named Tiedeman.
All in all, there are so many question marks, dollars, unanswered questions that either team could make out very well or receive a dumpster fire. You make that sound like it’s an even trade then, when in reality, it means that neither team would do this in a million years. Pick literally ANY of the reasons above as to why.
Gorman and O’Neill for Manoah and Espinal.
Let me guess – Jays fan?
How about Carlson Edman Nootbaar Donovan and Walker for your batboy?
And i thought Yankees fans were delusional. But some of these Jay’s fans… wow. St Louis isn’t trading you O’Neill for this probably, let alone BOTH. OK, they MIGHT do O’Neill… but Gorman? lmaooooo
Blue Jays need Manoah more than they need Dylan Carlson. Let’s back off that trade idea. The Jays do not have SP depth to begin with in the minors.
As for Carlson himself, the Blue Jays would need a right handed bat to spell him and Varsho as both are expected to flatline against left handed pitching. It would be wise to land an outfielder who hits right handed.
Carlson has always hit better from the right side.
Jays still need a RH bat for Varsho.
Yeah, and that’s Carlson, who hits lefties but can’t hit righties, the opposite of Varsho.
Ummmm. Carlson FEASTS on LHP… but you’re right, I wouldn’t trade him him manoah, if it were up to me.
No, Carlson kills lefties but flatlines against righties. As such, he would be a great compliment for Varsho.
Manoah & Biggio for Carlson, Libertine & a prospect…
Why would the Cardinals need Biggio?
It’s hard to evaluate young Cardinals players under Marmol and company because they don’t have the people skills necessary for that age group. I think Carlson and O’Neill would thrive elsewhere.
Tyler O’Neil will be entering his 7th season, and Carlson his 5th. There isn’t much left to evaluate. I will agree that both players will thrive outside of St Louis with proper, consistent playing time. Both could be all stars with another team
Only if they stay healthy and Carlson starts hitting RHP again. Those are the only reasons they stopped getting consistent playing time in the first place.
I’m not a cardinals fan so I get very mixed up between Burleson and Carlson as far which type of player each is. Plus they seem to have a surplus of Outfielders if you count Donnovan as well.
The surplus of outfielders is made up of 3 outfielders, 3 corner infielders (Burleson, Walker and Yepez, 3 middle infielders (Edman, Donovan and Palacios). So the real surplus is on the infield.
While he’s best as a DH right now, Walker has at least been learning the OF while he’s not an infielder at all. Yepez isn’t a very good fielder anywhere, Palacios is an OF, not a MI.
Edman (excellent) and Donovan (slightly below average, but no CF) play OF defense just as well as they play MI defense, and that MI surplus is exactly why Edman and Donovan add significantly to the OF depth.
Burleson smoked AAA, but so far he’s just a bench LH OF/1B who plays poor OF defense, hits OK against righties, but can’t hit lefties.
Carlson is an excellent defensive OF at all three spots and a switch-hitter who kills lefties but hasn’t hit well against righties for the past two years.
I need to root for a team that actually tries to win.
Carlson for Manoah LOL Manoah was way overweight last year and now seems to be in the gym. Certainly wouldn’t trade him for a non hitting OF.We have Varsho for that although atleast he is exceptional at defense.
Carlson also plays excellent defense and kills lefties. He’d at least make an excellent platoon partner for Varsho.
Jays would be giving way too much for a non hitting OF that they don’t need. They need a bat 1st OF
You could always get one of those in free agency in addition to Carlson.
Meanwhile, are you willing to settle for Varsho’s pathetic offense against LHP? If not, then Carlson does provide an offensive need without any drop off on defense.
Giving up a guy 1 year removed from a cy young for a non hitting player is an over pay
Manoah for Carlson straight up would be an overpay, but as I said, Carlson is *NOT* a non-hitting player. Put him up against a left-handed pitcher, and he hits as well as almost anyone.
Manoah was good more recently just 2 years ago and better then than Carlson was in even his rookie year (but still only 3rd in Cy Young voting), but at least Carlson was a better player last year. It could still work if the Cardinals throw in a prospect or two, or perhaps the Blue Jays would rather give up a decent relief pitcher instead.
I think Brady singer for Dylan carlson straight up makes a lot of sense. Both could use a fresh start.
Manoah, Guerrero and Kirk for starters of equal weight. Jays would get a haul!
Stop saying Manoah has been bad for a long time. It was one year following a dominant year. He was dominant in college and before this year, seemed to have a good head on his shoulders. Something was up last year. You can’t say no to him and yes to Sonny Gray. Sonny Gray was terrible in New York. Manoah would take considerable more than Carlson. You may be able to get Nate Pearson because he hasn’t ever proven it like Manoah has. Toronto may have soured on him because of injuries and performance compared to draft expectations. With that said, send Carlson, O’Neil or any one else to Toronto for the best you can get. This team needs a complete overall. The Cardinals should go after the two x blue jays Teoscsr Hernandez and Lourdes Gueriel Jr. and trade off the others. The third outfield will be the last man standing. both of them are better than the outfields currently on roster.
Are you coming from a Cardinals’ fan perspective? Pearson would probably be on the table for one of the change of scenery types. I’m not sure what kind of value he really has though. Other than being a recognizable name post hype guy, he’s already in arbitration and only has a handful of major league innings pitched. He’s kind of like Jordan Hicks in a lot of ways. There’s velocity but not much swing and miss. I think he’s searching for a pitch mix that works as a reliever. In the majors this year, he shelved the changeup and slider and was trying a fastball/curveball mix that did not seem to pair well with each other. But given that the Cardinals were willing to try Hicks as a starter so late in the process, I wonder if they’d consider Pearson for the same. He’s arbitration eligible already, but he has options still because he’s mostly just been on the IL getting service time. Even if there’s a slim chance of him making it as a starter, it wouldn’t at all be shocking if he became a valuable reliever.
Yes. From a cardinals fans perspective.
Gurriel seems a great fit for that lineup. And Teoscar would be very interesting seeing him have protection of Goldy, Arenado, Gorman, and Contreas. They could DH Walker and could give Burleson some time at AAA to try and get that bat right. For 2025 Walker or Burleson could take over at 1B and other DH.
This year was probably their best chance, maybe a retool is necessary
Cardinals fans, what is it about Carlson that you think another team should be aiming to tap into? I feel like he’s a name I know more for his promise as a prospect than anything that’s translated at the major league level. I see a guy who walks a decent amount and doesn’t strike out at too high a rate. The batted ball metrics are fine but Im not seeing the upside in the bat that someone would be trying to tap into. There doesn’t look to be plus raw power. Overall a fine player but not one that is so unique that I’m trading anything that could be part of the ‘24 plans for. He certainly would have some roster utility for Toronto so a prospect or two in return sure. But what is the more to look for that would make him more than a decent part time player?
I’ve seen probably 90% of Carlsons MLB at bats and IMO it’s a lack of drive and passion to be better. And I don’t think he wants it if he has to work for it. I don’t think he takes at bats with the mentality that it’s a battle, and he’s going to win. He can’t hit from the left side. He makes soft contact but occasionally runs into one. When he does he usually slugs for another game or two. I don’t think he has it in him to be anything more than he is. Being relegated to bench player last year surely didn’t help, but he looks Ike he has no confidence and lacks the drive to be do what it takes to be better. It seems like he was able to get noticed and rise from his natural talent and stopped. But in the MLB everyone has that and the cal up to the majors is when the real work begins to succeed. That’s just what I see. He very well could work his butt off to train and get better and truely has nothing more in him.
Well that sounds like a ringing endorsement.
As a Cardinals fan, I know what you mean about Carlson’s promise. He shows flashes, but he hasn’t been able to put it together for a full season. He loses so much weight during the season. He needs to be one of those “best shape of his life” guys this spring training, no matter where it is.
I don’t know if Toronto is the best place for Carlson to finally put it together. I think he’d perform better in a place like Kansas City, Washington, Oakland, where he could get regular at-bats without worrying an 0-for-4 is going to cost him his job.
I have much more faith in Carlson than Tyler O’Neill, but the Cardinals don’t really need either of them. They need pitching more than third and fourth chances.
I think there is plenty of interest around the league in trading for and taking flyer on Carlson to try and maximize his abilities. But I don’t think teams will be willing to include any one well regarded in their organization. I think they’d be willing to deal raw ability high boom or bust guys because the team who would acquire Carlson would be willing to DFA him relatively quickly if he isn’t anything more and they have other options to try.
Carlson is more valuable than a bounce back candidate!
Palacios has about a 50/50 split in the minors between 2b and the outfield though he has been in outfield more lately. At best a have he and Donovan as the opposite sides of a coin. Donovan better on the infield Palacios better in the outfield.
Some team, please show interest in Tyler O’Neil.
“Meanwhile” has to come at the start of the sentence—it can’t be in the middle. Then why would you have “as mentioned” in the middle of the sentence, after the subject and before the verb, interrupting things? Poor writing. MLBTR needs a real editor.