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Cardinals Sign Kyle Gibson To One-Year Deal

By Darragh McDonald | November 21, 2023 at 11:59pm CDT

The Cardinals announced the signing of Kyle Gibson to a one-year deal with a club option for 2025. The veteran right-hander will reportedly be guaranteed $12MM; the option value is still unreported. Gibson is a client of Rowley Sports Management.

Gibson, 36, spent 2023 with the Orioles on a one-year, $10MM deal. He took the ball 33 times for the O’s and logged 192 innings with an earned run average of 4.73. It’s possible that he deserved better results than that, as his 69.7% strand rate was a bit below average. He struck out just 19.5% of batters faced but limited walks to a 6.8% clip and kept 48.9% of balls in play on the ground. His 4.13 FIP and 4.40 SIERA paint a slightly more flattering portrait than his ERA.

Since as far back as August, Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak has been open about the club’s desire to add three starters to the rotation. That was in order to replace the departures of Adam Wainwright, who is now retired, and Jack Flaherty and Jordan Montgomery, who were traded at the deadline and are now free agents. There’s also some uncertainty with the in-house options, as Steven Matz has dealt with injuries and inconsistency of late while depth option Dakota Hudson was non-tendered last week when the club failed to find a trade for him. All that left Miles Mikolas and a heap of questions as the on-paper rotation.

But that was prior to this week. The Cards added another veteran innings eater yesterday, agreeing with Lance Lynn on a one-year deal. Between Lynn and now Gibson, it seems the club is starting out by building a foundation of reliability, more floor than ceiling. In each of the past nine full seasons, Gibson has made at least 25 starts, with 2016 being the only one of those seasons where he didn’t get to 29. He also made 12 starts in the shortened 2020 campaign. He’s only been on the injured list three times since his major league debut, dealing with a right shoulder strain in 2016, ulcerative colitis in 2019 and then a right groin strain in 2021. It’s a fairly similar situation with Lynn. He had knee surgery in 2022 and was limited to 21 starts, but apart from that, he’s made at least 28 starts in each full season dating back to 2012.

Lynn is coming off a down year, having allowed 44 home runs, leading to an ERA of 5.73. However, it’s possible that was a one-year blip, as he had a mark of 3.99 the year before, 2.69 in 2021 and 3.74 for his career. Gibson’s career ERA is 4.54 and he’s never been better than 3.62 in a single season, but as mentioned, his ability to take the mound every five days is quite strong. His 1,645 innings pitched dating back to 2014 are the fourth-most in baseball, trailing only Max Scherzer, Gerrit Cole and Zack Greinke.

Since the offseason began, the Cards have been connected to some of the top free agent arms available, such as Aaron Nola, Sonny Gray and Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Some fans may be disappointed by the additions of Lynn and Gibson on one-year deals but there’s nothing to indicate the door to a blockbuster has been closed by these moves. Gray and Yamamoto are still out there, as are plenty of other impactful starters. The Cards, meanwhile, should still have the money and opportunity for another pitcher.

The 2024 payroll is now set to be about $170MM, per Roster Resource, though some trades could perhaps drop that down a bit. The club is expected to look into moving a position player such as Tyler O’Neill, who has a projected salary of $5.5MM, or perhaps Dylan Carlson and his $1.8MM projection. Their franchise high payroll was last year’s $177MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but it’s possible they will give themselves a bit more wiggle room in order to get over their lackluster 2023 season.

Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported that Gibson was signing with the Cardinals on a one-year deal with a 2025 club option. Jesse Rogers of ESPN was first with the $12MM guarantee.

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Newsstand St. Louis Cardinals Transactions Kyle Gibson

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365 Comments

  1. Bnickles127

    2 years ago

    Rotation shaping up

    6
    Reply
    • Francys01

      2 years ago

      Wow, I thought the other day that the Cardinals could sign Gibson to be the fifth starter and today the Cardinals sign Gibson. Welcome to the Cardinals.

      7
      Reply
      • Joel P

        2 years ago

        Team needs an ace and a number 2 not another 5th starter. This is stupid.

        47
        Reply
        • Big Hurt

          2 years ago

          They do have quite a few “5th starters”.

          16
          Reply
        • MoneyBallJustWorks

          2 years ago

          the one year deals seem to indicate they are piecing together a rotation that might be ok for competing, but could also be dealt if out of playoff contention. far from “going for it” it would seem

          10
          Reply
        • Francys01

          2 years ago

          Joel P- I agree with you, but the ownership doesn’t want to spend much in starting pitchers. Maybe the Cardinals signed Lynn and Gibson to be able to sign Yamamoto or Snell.

          8
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          You don’t have to “go for it” to build a good team. Take a chance on Montas or Bauer. Trade for Glasnow or Bieber. Old innings eaters are not any good for anything.

          This sucks. I haven’t been this mad since the Leake signing. This is terrible.

          11
          Reply
        • Big Hurt

          2 years ago

          Francys01, your optimism is refreshing.

          5
          Reply
        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          @ Francys01 or Johnny Cueto and call the off-season a success? Other than $$ why would a top tier pitcher want sign in STL? TO be a 15 game winner on another 70 win team? This sucks.

          5
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          I don’t think there is enough money to sign Yamamoto or Snell evwn if we could convince them to sign here.

          22 million dollars on back end starters. This is bad.

          8
          Reply
        • mlb fan

          2 years ago

          “This is bad”…It’s only bad if they stop here. You need backend starters too. Let the off-season be more than a few days old before you go panning the early signjngs.

          11
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          The team doesn’t need backend starters.

          Mikolas
          Matz
          Liberatore
          Thompson

          And then in AAA

          Graceffo
          Mcgreevy
          Kloffenstein
          Robberse
          Rom

          That’s actually a pretty good AAA rotation. Those guys are going to need a place to play at least some of them. And they won’t have it because old bums like Lynn and Gibson.

          The team has no ace. No number 2. And we aren’t getting both of those guys now.

          This sucks.

          9
          Reply
        • Ol’ Uncle Charlie

          2 years ago

          Bauer will not be a Cardinal.

          6
          Reply
        • asdfgh

          2 years ago

          There is buddy especially after Lynn and Gibson. I would also rather have Yamamoto over any other FA or trade

          2
          Reply
        • Shady mapleworth

          2 years ago

          Dexter Fowler says hello

          Reply
        • RobblyDobs

          2 years ago

          I think you have summarised why the Cards are doing what they are doing, signing one year deals to avoid blocking talent like Hence and Roby when they are ready. I’m not saying I agree with it, but its what you would do if 2024 is a bridge year, not an ‘all in’ year.

          Think there is every chance they trade for Glasnow to complete the process of kicking the can 12 months down the road. Again some logic to signing workhorses to mitigate the risk Glasnow doesnt get past 100 innings.

          But wholly agree with you that this is not what any Cards fan was hoping for.

          6
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Are you Ronnie Dobbs on cardstalk?

          Reply
        • Degaz

          2 years ago

          …and $22M less to spend. Makes Zero sense..

          3
          Reply
        • RobblyDobs

          2 years ago

          Lol no. Dont know who he is! Just a regular Cards fan.

          Reply
        • Shady mapleworth

          2 years ago

          there is enough money they just won’t spend it wisely

          2
          Reply
        • Eovaldismemes

          2 years ago

          if you look on paper they’re more than a 70 win team, they have the stars on offense now they need stars on pitching, i have 85+ if they get good pitching this offseason

          1
          Reply
        • RobblyDobs

          2 years ago

          Yeah i dont think any of us feels like partying right now, but its really good if the young core of Noot, Gorman, Donny (and Walker and Winn) arent going anywhere

          2
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          But this isn’t good pitching

          9
          Reply
        • Charlie'sSinging

          2 years ago

          When is this good pitching coming? 4 out of 5 starting spots now filled. 🙁

          5
          Reply
        • wifflemeister

          2 years ago

          Neither will Cueto

          1
          Reply
        • CityofChampions

          2 years ago

          Liberatore isn’t a SP lock. He might go into camp as a full time reliever. I don’t see anything about him that suggests he’ll be anymore than that.

          Thompson might be a #5 but the Cards definitely needed some rotation depth. A TOR guy is obviously lacking still. Off-season isn’t over though. Definitely not the start fans are going to love.

          2
          Reply
        • kremer

          2 years ago

          Even at that I would argue they are hardly better than at the start of last season. Last year they started with Flaherty and Montgomery and Waino on top of the returning Mikolas and Matz.

          Now they are looking at 3 starters age 35+ with coming off seasons with 4.7+ eras. Then you have the brittle Matz. Even with Yamamoto or Snell they are still way short and arguably not as talented as last season (which ended really badly, mostly because they relied on an old SP and Matz).

          2
          Reply
        • kremer

          2 years ago

          Agreed. Could have tried to go after Giolito even who throws innings, is younger and has upside. Plus the cardinals are going to need to do this all over again next offseason needing more pitching because everyone is only guaranteed 1 year. I don’t trust McGreevy or Hjerpe or Graceffo. Maybe Roby can develop into a SP…

          1
          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Liberatore is a talented pitcher. He has as good of a shot to be good in 2024 than Lynn does.

          This isn’t what the team needs. The team needs high risk high reward pitching not old innings eaters.

          1
          Reply
        • CityofChampions

          2 years ago

          Yeah I don’t see it with Liberatore. Big leaguers absolutely barrel him and his stuff isn’t very special. I’d be surprised if he’s a big league starter. Maybe he can tick up out of the pen and find a home there. Lefties will get every opp.

          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Rom is a bum. But Liberatore has talent he will figure it out.

          Reply
        • Candlestoked

          2 years ago

          Is that cards talk or card stalk?

          1
          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @Joel P: However, unlike the guys you listed, Gibson and Lynn can actually get MLB hitters out.

          Reply
        • RobblyDobs

          2 years ago

          His FB doesn’t have movement. If he changed that, he’s a great prospect but right now he doesn’t miss bats.

          1
          Reply
        • THEY LIVE!!!

          2 years ago

          @Joel
          I feel your pain. Looks like Mo is aiming at finishing 3rd or 81 wins.

          1
          Reply
        • Razz

          2 years ago

          This all points to sell off and rebuild this year. Cards are resetting and aren’t going for it. Nolan A. & Goldy have to be pissed. They’re good as gone now think about it 1 yr deals? Youth movement is coming this yr. Its not a horrible strategy for a team not wanting to speed that is young, if you think about it. They can reset at the trade deadline by trading Gibson, Lynn, Mikolas, Goldy, Edman & Nolan A. Load up on a ton of prospects and go with youth movement in 2025.. Sucks for this year but Cards are yanking the fans chains with these moves. These are rebuild moves not go for it moves writing is on the wall folks! All we can do as fans is support them or get back and hit them where it hurts and not spend or go to the games! This really sucks no other way to spin it.

          3
          Reply
        • Razz

          2 years ago

          I agree Glasnow is the next plan unless they want to add a Yamamoto because he’s young and would fit their youth movement. But we aren’t getting Snell or Gray people can forget that! They’ll go for Glasnow now so they can trade him at deadline or Shoot for a Yamamoto because he’s young and fits their timeline better. I do think theres a chance Yamamoto comes to St Louis and St louis has the money to sign him after these moves. But it one or the other either they got deal in place for Glasnow or know something about Yamamoto. But folks either way Cards aren’t going for it this year these are not go for it moves PERIOD!

          1
          Reply
        • RobblyDobs

          2 years ago

          Disagree. They are moves to survive 2024 and compete 2025-2030.

          1) one year contracts for pitchers so Roby, Hence, Hjerpe, Graceffo, Thompson, Liberatore and others arent blocked

          2) none of Gorman, Noot, Donovan, Walker, Winn traded. Long term hitting core retained.

          All indicates 2024 is a bridge year.

          4
          Reply
        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          Exactly!!!! Couldn’t agree with you more!!!

          Reply
        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          BUT THEY ONLY NEEDED ONE BACK-END SP…..not TWO!!!!!

          Reply
        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          Mo needs for it to be an “all-in year” though or he’s gone…….period!

          1
          Reply
        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          Could’ve used that $22 M on an ACTUAL No. 2 SP like an Ed. Rodriguez! 🙁

          1
          Reply
        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          One key to competing 25-30 is
          John Mozeliak’s contract is up at the end of 25.

          5
          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          Razz – Rays fan here and I don’t think Glas is coming your way. The price would probably be Hence and I don’t think the Cardinals are going to want to give him up. Rays don’t need/want guys like O’Neill and Burleson.

          1
          Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          It will also be good if that young core gets to take BP off them. Boost their confidence level!

          1
          Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          @Joel P
          I would have understood signing one of them, for the innings, but both guarantees they’re not making the playoffs.

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          Not last year they didn’t.

          Reply
        • Kruk it

          2 years ago

          Time to get away from the clearance bin

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          If a top tier pitcher signed for St. Louis, it would then probably BE at least a contending team again alongside the additions of Lynn and Gibson, as long as good enough additions are also made to the bullpen.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          They need both innings and high reward talent. (Although, you can argue that Lynn is both.) I just don’t see the logic in getting two veteran innings eaters coming off mediocre or worse seasons, especially when they already had one of those guys in Mikolas.

          1
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Even if they were to sell off again next year, they wouldn’t sell guys like Arenado and Mikolas who have multiple years left on their contracts.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          If they do get Yamamoto, he would be the ace they need and prove that they’re still going for it next year.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Would the Rays take either Edman or Donovan as a headliner? What about Carlson, given how much your team likes platoons?

          Reply
        • Jrnomo100

          2 years ago

          But they needed inning s from someone

          Reply
        • Zk83

          2 years ago

          It’s November dude…at least let the off season play out before you claim the sky is falling. “BFiB” are giving up and whining in record time this offseason.

          2
          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          2 years ago

          Right now, I have 71.

          Reply
        • Deleted Userr

          2 years ago

          If not from him then where are the Cardinals going to find pitching?

          Reply
        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          2 years ago

          There’s not a shadows chance in H-E-L-L that Yamomoto is going to St. Louis. First of all he prefers West Coast, but if he goes somewhere else it’s to one of the big market clubs on the eastern seaboard.

          2
          Reply
        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          2 years ago

          They’re going to trade Goldschmidt now to the Mariners for Woo or Miller.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @Ignorant Son-of-a-b: A declining 36yo with a big contract for a young, promising arm? No way.

          2
          Reply
        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          2 years ago

          @Baron you make a valid point, but the Mariners are desperate for some thunder in that lineup. And I don’t think it will come from acquiring Ohtani or Soto.

          1
          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          But Goldschmidt isn’t worth one of those pitchers.

          1
          Reply
        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          2 years ago

          @Baron How about Goldschmidt & Donovan then? I’m just desperate for offense and willing to overpay I guess. But you’re right, it’s not a sound logical move.

          1
          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          If I’m the Mariners, maybe Donovan to play 2B if the Cardinals add cash to cover a chunk of Goldschmidt’s contract.

          But I have no idea how many years and how much remains.

          1
          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          @Baron, Goldy is only under contract for 2024 @ $24M. It’s really not all that big of a contract. STL could also eat a bit of it to boost return even more.

          1
          Reply
        • kremer

          2 years ago

          IDK. You think they can get a top 50 prospect for 1 year of Glasnow at market rate with his injury history? Not saying you’re wrong but that feels steep.

          1
          Reply
        • kremer

          2 years ago

          I would think they are into Edman (contact + switch hitter and plays CF/SS) and potentially Burleson (they want LH contact) I would give up hence as well for the right mariners pitcher.

          Reply
        • User 3044878754

          2 years ago

          Old innings eaters….spot on. The Cards traded Corey Kluber away when he was young.
          How about developing some PATIENCE????

          1
          Reply
        • GO1962

          2 years ago

          The one year contracts for Gibson and Lynn also provide the Cardinals with the option to move them to the bullpen or to release them in the event young pitchers such as Liberatore, Roby, McGreevy, and Thompson live up to their full potential during 2024 and force management to use them in the rotation. Keep in mind that there were several players in recent years with long term contracts who underperformed, and who were factors in better players being blocked. Cardinals history over the past decade has shown that several young players were traded or sold to other teams because they were blocked in the Cardinals system, and those players today are all-stars for other teams.

          Reply
        • GO1962

          2 years ago

          Looking at 2024 as a bridge year is realistic, whereas expecting a World Championship the year after a 71-91 season is unrealistic and delusional.

          1
          Reply
        • Deleted Userr

          2 years ago

          @OIC2021 The Cards never traded Corey Kluber Einstein!

          Reply
        • Deleted Userr

          2 years ago

          The time to trade Goldy was last July.

          Reply
        • GO1962

          2 years ago

          November 2024 is a repeat of November 2023.. In November 2023 there were numerous loud whines about the Cardinals not pursuing deGrom or Rodon.

          Reply
        • mikejoann6

          2 years ago

          Kluber was never in the Cardinals organization.

          Reply
        • SalaryCapMyth

          2 years ago

          What they don’t have are quite a few 5th starters going nearly 200 innings.

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          2 years ago

          People are clueless as to what constitutes 5th starters.

          Well, and 3rd starters. And aces.

          And forget 2’s. And 4’s.

          Last week someone referred to Jordan Montgomery as “as third starter. With some upside.” If he’s your third starter you’re headed for the World Series.

          1
          Reply
        • Eatdust666

          2 years ago

          Exactly, the Padres did it, who received Ryan Ludwick from the Cardinals, who received Jake Westbrook from the Indians.

          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          Edman might interest the Rays if they don’t think Franco will play this year, but I doubt they trade for him in December if that’s the case. Donovan is unlikely to interest the Rays in my opinion, as it doesn’t appear he can play SS at a high level.. Carlson wouldn’t headline a Glasnow trade, but he’s an interesting 2nd or 3rd piece as a 4th outfielder. Ultimately, I think the demand for Glasnow is going to be high enough that Hence may have to headline a trade. If not Hence, then Graceffo for sure. O’Neill and Burleson won’t be wanted, even as secondary pieces.

          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Nobody is giving up anything legit for Glasnow and his 25 million dollar salary. Wait and see.

          1
          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          Glas’ injury history is basically a series of arm issues that all led to the TJS he got in 2021. He’s now healthy and pitched the most innings of his career in 2023, in his first year back from TJS. I’m expecting 175ish innings from him next year. As for market rates, a 1 year contract for a top pitcher is in the $40MM range, not the $25MM AAV on long term deals. Plus, Glasnow comes with a QO draft pick if the team doesn’t extend him. I kind of expect the Rays to want a 2-3 player package headlined by someone less exciting than Hence, but if the Rays want the highest quality player possible, I think Glasnow has the market value to pull Hence if that’s what the Rays want.

          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          He’s never pitched more than 120 innings and you expect him to pitch 175?

          Lol OK

          Hence is simply not available at all

          1
          Reply
        • Shady mapleworth

          2 years ago

          hey joel cranny keeps saying lynn and gibson are great signings

          Reply
        • THEY LIVE!!!

          2 years ago

          Probably right about Bauer.

          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          Joel – I know you think Glas is injury prone, but you do realize that every year he was injured with the Rays it was the same injury, right?. Arm fatigue or a slight strain that he would rehab by resting his arm for a good part of the year and then return for the post-season when the Rays needed him. EVERYONE knew he was destined for TJS and he eventually underwent the procedure in 2021. In 2023, his first year back from TJS, he rewarded the Rays with the most IP of his career. Why wouldn’t he be able to pitch 175 IP next year when he’s no longer under an IP limit?

          Reply
    • MLB Top 100 Commenter

      2 years ago

      As a Cubs fan, Gibson and Lynn to the dirty birds is A-ok with me

      16
      Reply
      • asdfgh

        2 years ago

        lol oh how you forget we are in a pitchers ballpark. And yes we will be going for Yamamoto. As a cardinals fan I enjoyed seeing the cubs not make the playoffs

        2
        Reply
        • FunkyButtLovin

          2 years ago

          And I throughly enjoyed the Cards bringing up the rear in the Central all year.

          6
          Reply
        • cnazimm

          2 years ago

          Most of the year. They pulled out for a couple of weeks.

          Reply
        • jade 2

          2 years ago

          And on the road? And the wizard staff handler of Willson Contreas? I’ve enjoyed watching the Cardinals become really dumb over the past couple years. One of the better run teams for the past 40+ years. The gonna have to fire the entire FO.

          1
          Reply
    • Four4fore

      2 years ago

      By June we may be missing Hudson and Woodford.

      1
      Reply
    • BaseballisLife

      2 years ago

      They have now signed two of the 4 lowest ERA starters with a qualifying number of innings pitched to add to Mikolas that was in the bottom 5 also.

      Now sign Giolito and trade for Corbin and they can have all the bottom 5 in one rotation.

      3
      Reply
      • BaseballisLife

        2 years ago

        Shoot I messed up. Jordan Lyles was worse. The Cardinals can’t lock up the market for crappy starters.

        1
        Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          I’m sure the Rivals don’t consider Lyle’s to be untouchable. Make an offer. Any offer!

          1
          Reply
        • BaseballisLife

          2 years ago

          Lol. A bag of stale peanuts and a yard of fertlizer.

          Reply
        • Steve12345

          2 years ago

          As a Royals fan, the fertilizer will be fine. You can keep the stale peanuts. In fact, you can keep the fertilizer too just don’t make us pay any of his salary to take him.

          1
          Reply
    • Robertguyette

      2 years ago

      The issue the Cards had was not their pitching last year, but their defense. They have built their teams based soley on their offensive numbers, and have no regard to run prevention. They don’t have a bad roster of individual players, but the mix of players and where they have to play them to get them on the field is not a good mix. Contreras got the bulk of the blame, but it was almost the entire team.
      Zone rating isn’t perfect.. but the Cardinals top 15 players in innings played had a combined -58. By comparison the Brewers top 15 had a +71. So the Brewers pitchers gave up 129 less runs due to defense behind them compared to the Cardinals defense. The Cardinal pitchers faced 383 more hitters throughout the year, despite pitching 15 less innings.

      Spending big money on pitching will not help this team, reworking the roster make up to be well rounded, will help this team.

      5
      Reply
      • Lanidrac

        2 years ago

        The defense should be quite a bit better than it was last year, and even then it wasn’t terrible.

        Arenado had a strange defensive slump in the first half, but he broke out of it and is still one of the best defensive 3B in MLB. Walker’s defense has improved, and it’ll either continue to get better, or he’ll be playing DH more often. Yepez was non-tendered. Burleson will either be traded or won’t get as much playing time next year. Gorman’s 2B defense was about average last year and may develop even further. If O’Neill stays relatively healthy and isn’t traded, their LF defense will be much better. Finally, Winn is projected to be a really good defender at SS, perhaps even better than DeJong.

        2
        Reply
        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          Lanidrac so Edman, Burleson and Matz for Cease? Works for me but I don’t think the Sox go for it.

          1
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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @Four4fore: Lots of luck trying to pawn off Matz for anything.

          Reply
        • BaseballisLife

          2 years ago

          The Cardinals defense was pretty bad. -7 DRS and -5 OAA.

          1
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        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          @ Blue Baron: I know it’s ugly but most sarcasm is.

          1
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        • GO1962

          2 years ago

          The White Sox appear to be in a full rebuild. I suspect they would want only players who are top 30 type prospects who will not be eligible for free agency until after the 2029 season. I don’t believe the Sox would have any interest in Matz, and likely would have little to no interest in Edman because he is eligible for free agency after 2025.

          Reply
    • Bart Harley Jarvis

      2 years ago

      Kyle Gibson has shown himself to be a reliable MLB starter for any team that scores on average six runs per game.

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      • Four4fore

        2 years ago

        6 runs a game appears to be the plan.

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      • Lanidrac

        2 years ago

        Almost no team is that good, but at least the Cardinals shouldn’t be far from the very good 4.44 runs per game they scored this past season. Actually, they should be even better considering how the lineup was gutted by injuries (and Winn’s inability to hit in his first taste of the Majors) in September.

        1
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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          Why not? Goldschmidt showed signs of decline and he’s 36, so that will continue.

          1
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        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          So his decline continues so that he’s only a very good 3 WAR player. Meanwhile, Walker will probably more than make up for that deficit on his own, along with further development from some of their other young position players.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          But decline and susceptibility to injury accelerate as the player ages, and he hits 37 next year.

          Keith Hernandez was 5.5 and a world champion at 32, 3.4 at 33, 2.2 and injured for a significant portion of the season at 34, -0.2 at 35, -0.7 and hanging on in Cleveland at 36, and out of baseball at 37.

          Would you be happy with a 2.0 WAR or worse player anchoring the lineup at 1B?

          1
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        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Yet Goldschmidt didn’t even start his decline until September of 2022, just before he turned 35, so he’s on a much different aging path than Hernandez was. Goldy was also a much better hitter in his prime in the first place.

          Besides, Goldschmidt no longer needs to anchor the lineup now that they have Arenado, Contreras, Gorman, Walker, and (if healthy and not traded) O’Neill.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          But he dropped from 7.8 to 3.4 in one season. That’s quite precipitous. Good thing for the Cardinals he only has one year remaining on his contract.

          And you don’t know what you have with Gorman, Walker, and O’Neill. O’Neill is the only one to produce any positive value at the MLB level, and he hasn’t done so since 2021.

          You certainly look at everything about the Cardinals through rose-tinted lenses.

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        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          I think Walker is Goldschmidt’s replacement after 2024.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          Assuming he proves he can hit MLB pitching. He hasn’t yet.

          1
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        • JackStrawb

          2 years ago

          @Lanidrac 4.44 RPG isn’t ‘very good’, just so you know. It’s below average. It sums to 719 runs over a full season. The MLB average was 748 runs per team over the 2023 season. —The Birds were 20th of 30 in runs per game.

          1
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        • SimbaHOF2019

          2 years ago

          I love Keith but he didnt take care of himself like Goldy does. he smoked and did other things players did in the 80s. pre steroids.

          1
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        • Eatdust666

          2 years ago

          Yet it’s still better than the Yankees and their 219 home runs had, scoring only 673 runs. People want to blame it on Aaron Judge being out for a while due to tearing a ligament in his big toe, but I don’t buy it, because Gleyber Torres, who had his own share of cold spells was pretty much the only guy that consistently hit well in his absence.

          Reply
        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          Keith Hernandez did other things, hmmm.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          So did a lot of folks in the 80s, so what’s the big whoop?

          When I was in college in the early 80s, a fraternity openly publicized a “Champagne, Cheese, and Cocaine” party.

          Reply
    • WillieS

      2 years ago

      Two middle aged mediocre pitchers that are well past their prime will only work if they sign at least one major elite starter! Just being realistic

      Reply
  2. RunDMC

    2 years ago

    If AA is cooking.
    Mo is microwaving.

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    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      I remember back in 2006 when the Cardinals had just opened a new stadium and had the best player on the planet and also a bunch of other guys on team friendly deals.

      What were the Braves doing in 2006? I don’t recall.

      Reply
      • iverbure

        2 years ago

        Just ending a run of winning like 25 straight division titles not sure why anything from
        2006 is relevant though. Oh right it isn’t.

        5
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        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Division titles? Well that’s something.

          I am not sure why the Braves are relevant in a post about the Cardinals signing Gibson. That’s what I am not sure about.

          4
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        • RunDMC

          2 years ago

          Look on the bright side, Mo now has 3 of the top 5 pitchers to give up the most hits in MLB in 2023:

          1) Miles Mikolas
          4) Kyle Gibson
          5) Lance Lynn (also, most HR)

          He wants Goldy/Arenado to earn those GGs. Mo puttin’ together his own Murderer’s Row of a rotation.

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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @iverbure: Actually 14 straight. Still impressive, but nothing “like 25 straight.”

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          2 years ago

          @RunDMC You can squint and sort of see the outline of a plan here. Not saying it’s necessarily a great plan, but it’s a plan. Keep the ball away from guys who put up a 5.75 ERA in 12 starts (assuming, in Lynn’s case). before you have to send them down. Keep the team in games.

          B/t Wainwright, Woodford, and Rom the Cards in 2023 gave almost a 1/4 of their starts to guys who combined for an ERA roughly 7.00. Now, with studly #4-5 guys like Lynn and Gibson that (probably) isn’t a risk and they can get down to the business of assembling a team with a shot in a weak division–assuming the Brewers drop down a notch.

          There’s a lot to be said for keeping terrible pitchers off the mound. Well, pitchers as bad as Wainwright. Could this backfire? Sure, horribly so. But they have to give those innings to someone and it looks like they aren’t sending payroll to $250 million.

          Reply
        • SimbaHOF2019

          2 years ago

          They werent great but hits come with innings pitched there are some cy young candidates on the most hits of 23 top 10.

          Reply
      • Asmongold

        2 years ago

        Funny you bring up 2006. The rotation outside of Carpenter was straight trash. Are you suggesting they can replicate that?

        Reply
  3. Vince Coleman'sTarpMachine

    2 years ago

    Another scrap heap addition

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    • Rantucky

      2 years ago

      Mo, a dumpster diver in a bowtie

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  4. VonPurpleHayes

    2 years ago

    Gibby is solid, but Cards clearly shopping at the discount store this offseason.

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    • Garywally57

      2 years ago

      That’s the Cardinal way. It’s about putting at least 3 million people in the stands every year, but most importantly, profits for billionaire Bill Dewallet.

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    • stymeedone

      2 years ago

      $22MM for those two doesn’t sound like a discount to me. Doubt they expected offers while real options were still on the market.

      1
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    • JackStrawb

      2 years ago

      @VonPurpleHayes Probably so, but in a transitional year, one in which they need bulk innings even more than the Mets do, aiming to round out the back of the rotation with 40 starts with an ERA around 4.50-4.75 rather than 7.00 as in 2023 and declining to spend big and waste a year off the front of a #1-2 starter’s deal, is a sensible plan. Payroll almost starts over in 2025. Goldy’s gone then. It’ll be Mikolas and Matz’s last year. If they don’t think they’ll be serious contenders for the postseason in 2024, and with just a middling farm system, this is a respectable approach. I’m just not so sure they’ll get from Lynn a pitcher similar in results to Gibson, that’s to say a solid #4. It wouldn’t be all that surprising to see both pitchers turn out to be unplayable in 2024. The O’s defense was very good in ’23 but Gibson’s ERA was still 4.73.

      Reply
  5. Nacho Cheese

    2 years ago

    Should have seen this coming. Are they saving for a big splash?

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    • Bnickles127

      2 years ago

      Doubtful, best bet is trade for cease, Bieber or Glasnow

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      • TheStevilEmpire1

        2 years ago

        @Bnickles127

        More like Wacha, Giolito, Clevinger. I said this when everybody had Nola walking through that door.

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        • Eovaldismemes

          2 years ago

          all three can be great when healthy, Wacha we’ve seen this for the past two years, Giolito when he was on a competing ChiSox team & Clevinger had a whole haul for him and Greg Allen a few years back showing he does have some value, which he can be good if has the right tools.

          Reply
        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          I NEVER wanted Nola though. No. 4 SP caliber stats. in 2 of last 3 seasons so commit “Ace” $ to him for 7 YEARS?!?!?!?! No thanks. I’d’ve been ANGRIER at that deal than these. At least these are LIKELY to only be 1-year deals.

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        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          Had some value two years ago.

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          2 years ago

          @krhuff Nola, a #4? 6 to 1 K BB ratio, 1.077 H/9. You don’t actually follow the game, do you?

          1
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  6. Captain Dunsel

    2 years ago

    Veeerrry interesting.

    Reply
  7. Alkie

    2 years ago

    From “Sonny Gray and Jordan Montgomery” to “Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson” in less than a week.

    Oof.

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    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      I try not to be an entitled fan but this is lame. These are not the guys the team needed.

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      • VonPurpleHayes

        2 years ago

        Makes you wonder why they didn’t trade Goldy. This feels like a retool.

        2
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        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          A retool is fine but get good players not old washed up guys. Gibson and Lynn are innings eaters and that’s simply not what the team needs at all. The team sucked with Montgomery and Flaherty it’s not going to get better with Lynn and Gibson. And now there is room for only 1 more starter.

          This is stupid.

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        • PoisonedPens

          2 years ago

          Competitive teams are generally going 6-7 deep in proven MLB starters before they hit the promotion guys. Just look at last year’s Dodgers or Yankees to see why… Standing at five, innings eaters or not, is a recipe for disaster.

          1
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        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          I could actually see signing ONE of them…..actually makes sense.

          Both is just Frikkin’ MORONIC!!!

          1
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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @…AND PRINT IT: America’s first baseman? What does that even mean?

          Freddie Freeman, Yandy Diaz, Matt Olson, Bryce Harper, Josh Naylor, Christian Walker, Pete Alonso, and Josh Bell all posted superior OPS last year, so Goldschmidt isn’t even all that elite anymore, and he’s on the downside of his career at 36.

          At his age and salary, you certainly can’t trade that for much of anything.

          1
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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          I wonder who thought that up.

          It’s presumptuous at best and stupid at worst IMO.

          1
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        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @Joel P: Joining old, washed up guys like Goldschmidt.

          Reply
      • JoeBrady

        2 years ago

        I can’t disagree. Lynn was a low-end #5 innings eater. And so is Gibson. IMHO, these are guys you add when you have a strong 1-4, and don’t want to spend much on a #5.

        Between these two, plus Matz and Mikolas, you have four slots locked up that likely will be worse than average collectively. Even if they signed Snell, I am not sure they will have a league-average rotation.

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        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Exactly Joe. This basically guarantees the pitching isn’t going to he good enough unless Lynn and Mikolas pitch their best in years. Which probably isn’t happening now that Molina is gone and the pitching coach is a nobody.

          This sucks. Why jump the market early like this to get back end starters??? Even if you sign these bums do it in February after the good pitchers are gone.

          1
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        • CityofChampions

          2 years ago

          I think you need 3 guys that you want to start in October. Gibson or Lynn can do the trick as #4 and 5’s. Assuming Lynn isn’t the 2023 version.

          The problem is that Mikolas and Matz aren’t exactly TOR guys. They’re all kind of #4’s. Maybe 1 #3 if you squint hard.

          1
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        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          From 5/25 to 8/12 (before injured and summarily out for the season), Matz was looking more like no worse than a No. 2:

          14 Gms., 6 GS, 48.2 IP, 35 H’s, 14 R’s, 13 ER’s, 3 HR’s, 12 BB’s, 53 SO’s, (4-1) w/ a 2.40 ERA & an 0.97 WHIP………..

          I’m sorry…..actually more like “Ace”-like Numbers. But he’s been hurt EVERY YEAR that he’s been a Cardinal.

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        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          …which is two out of two years. Getting injured for a significant period two years in a row happens all the time to pitchers without them necessarily being considered injury prone.

          Reply
        • diggin4three

          2 years ago

          The writing was on the wall when Mo & Co stated it has less than $50mil (approx) to spend to accomplish its long list of goals. We should have known at that point the organization would not be willing to pursue the quality of talent most fans were probably hoping for. It is what it is, more business as usual.

          Reply
        • SimbaHOF2019

          2 years ago

          They wont be there in February. starters of any ilk aren’t going to last unless they are unreasonable in there demands. Top starters wont sign till later so get support pitchers now.

          Reply
      • TheStevilEmpire1

        2 years ago

        Joel P.

        Honestly I expected this from go. They have too many holes to fill. They might address the other starter with Wacha, Giolito, Clevinger type. They still have to get relief help through sign or trade. It is what it is.

        Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Why fill holes with marginal upgrades and spend real money doing it? Why??? This doesn’t make the team better. And the team needs to get better.

          1
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        • TheStevilEmpire1

          2 years ago

          @Joel P.

          So I have a theory to what they’re doing. I’ll start by saying I’m not for or against this particular strategy, just my thoughts at what they MIGHT be thinking.

          Best case scenario:

          Lynn, Mikolas, Matz, Gibson return to form and become a formidable rotation for a playoff contender next year. Is it possible? Certainly. Is it probable? I’m not holding my breath. If we had Dave Duncan taking on these reclamation projects then I would be far more confident, but I will reserve judgement…for now.

          Worst case scenario:

          Things start off terrible next year, Marmol is fired before Memorial day, Arenado and Goldscmidt will request trades, and Mozeliak will oblige. They’ll trade them for a lot of pitching prospects and move Walker to first, Donavan to second and Gorman to third, presumably if they’re still on the team.

          As long as Lynn and Gibson pitch to an ERA under 5 and a WHIP under 1.40, somebody will take them. Will it happen? It’s too early to know. So much of an upcoming season depends on how their off-season goes now.

          This is just a theory though.

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        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          It does seem like the team is almost planning for this to fail and to sell at the deadline in 2024.

          What form are these guys returning to? Lynn was good once. Gibson has never actually been good. Matz has never actually been good. Mikolas maybe but him and Lynn sucked last year.

          This just sucks. These are bad moves.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Eh, it still makes them quite a bit better than relying on guys like Thompson, Liberatore, and Rom to fill out the rotation. Maybe Thompson is better, but if he is he’s going to need to prove it.

          I just don’t see the wisdom in investing in both of them given their other pitching needs.

          Reply
      • Ol’ Uncle Charlie

        2 years ago

        We need one of these guys (Lynn OR Gibson), but TWO $10m, one-year reclamation deals? That leaves $35m to spend (by the estimates from the talking heads), so a frontline starter and two solid relievers are still possible.

        Just not sure why we need TWO reclamation projects/5th starters.

        Is Gibson going to be a setup man/spot starter with that big sweeping slider?

        I have questions.

        1
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      • Eovaldismemes

        2 years ago

        Gibson is a Quality Starter, Lynn doesn’t make much sense but i am happy Mo is actually trying to get pitching this offseason, both if on their A-Game can be Cy Young Contenders.

        Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          2 years ago

          I’m going to have to stop you right there. Gibson is not a Cy Young contender on any planet. Lance Lynn is a long ways away from that as well.

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        • Charlie'sSinging

          2 years ago

          In what year?

          Reply
        • n2thecards

          2 years ago

          if we get the absolute best out of both Lynn and Gibson, we’re looking at 12-15 wins max. of course, wins don’t matter as much as long as they provide quality starts giving the bats a chance. if they do win that many each, they would both have outperformed last year’s #1-2 pitchers

          1
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      • Zk83

        2 years ago

        It’s also November and all the big names, save Nola, are still available. You might need to see a therapist dude.

        Reply
    • Degaz

      2 years ago

      and $22M spent to boot….ugh

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      • krhuff

        2 years ago

        Agreed………….supposedly, the two combined deals were a good $4 – 5 M Combined ABOVE market-value!!! WTF!!!

        Reply
    • Card66

      2 years ago

      Did you really think MO would get a top tier pitcher , hell the Cards never even spoke to Nola.

      1
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      • Joel P

        2 years ago

        Nola went back with his old team that’s fine. But 22 million for a couple bums isn’t.

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  8. Bnickles127

    2 years ago

    Who needs front line starters when you can add Gibson and Lynn

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    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      lmfao

      Reply
  9. King Floch

    2 years ago

    Adios and good luck from Birdland, Kyle.

    Reply
    • JimtheEsquire

      2 years ago

      We also have a bird as a mascot.

      Reply
      • King Floch

        2 years ago

        But you don’t have multiple professional sports teams with bird names/mascots like we do here in Birdland 😉

        Reply
        • JimtheEsquire

          2 years ago

          We’ve got the BattleHawks and the Cardinals. The damn Hawks left us for Atlanta.

          Reply
    • Eovaldismemes

      2 years ago

      St Louis Browns to St Louis Cardinals

      Reply
      • n2thecards

        2 years ago

        that’s true!

        Reply
  10. DarkSide830

    2 years ago

    lol

    3
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    • Cedric.p.nelson

      2 years ago

      Haha that’s what mo does best get the bargain bin pitchers expect them to be great

      1
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      • Eovaldismemes

        2 years ago

        Gibson isn’t really a “Bargain Bin” Type of pitcher, he has the fuel for more and can be great, its what we need at the moment and is veteran leadership for the younger guys

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        • Charlie'sSinging

          2 years ago

          Kyle Gibson? The guy who has been pitching in MLB for 11 years and has a 4.54 career ERA? The guy who has an ERA over 4.70 each of the last three years, and an ERA over 5,00 two of those three years? The guy who has had an ERA over 5.00 six times and an ERA under 4.00 only three times? Are we talking about the same guy?

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        • VonPurpleHayes

          2 years ago

          Sorry, friend. I’m a huge Kyle Gibson fan. Great teammate. Solid innings eater. You’re trying to hype him into something he isn’t. He’s a solid #4. That’s all he is.

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        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          4 of his last 8 seasons he’s had ERAs over 5!!!

          Reply
  11. showmebb

    2 years ago

    This wasn’t how I expected him to rebuild this rotation. Gibson and Lynn? Yuck.

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  12. Saint Nick

    2 years ago

    Cards loading up on #6 starters.

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  13. lucas0622

    2 years ago

    Cards GM said they wanted to add three starters, but he never said “good” starters

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    • Bnickles127

      2 years ago

      Truth!

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    • Bnickles127

      2 years ago

      This is as pitiful as my Mariners optimism to add impact hitters.. I feel for you cardinals fans

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    • TAKERDBACKS

      2 years ago

      good innings eaters between him and Lynn. but a very average team. Looking like the angels more and more

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      • Eovaldismemes

        2 years ago

        we have the angels pitching but not the angels offense

        Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Yeah, assuming Ohtani leaves, at least the Cardinals’ offense is quite a bit better than the Angels’. While the Angels still have Trout (until he gets hurt again), unless Rendon suddenly turns back the clock a few years, the rest of their offense is nothing special right now.

          Meanwhile, the Cardinals have a playoff-caliber offense right now and more good position players than places to play them.

          1
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    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      That popped into my head as well.

      Knowing Mo, the 3rd and final SP that he’ll add will be Jack Flaherty

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  14. cah011381

    2 years ago

    Typical Mo dumpster diving. This is turning into a joke.

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  15. Joel P

    2 years ago

    Gross

    These are not the kind of pitchers the team needs. This is garbage. Yes he’s been solid the last couple years but the team needs upside not old innings eaters.

    5
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    • iverbure

      2 years ago

      Lol get wrecked Joel P

      2
      Reply
  16. ih8tepaperstraws

    2 years ago

    Another good signing by Mo as long as it’s no more than a two year deal. Hopefully it’s only one guaranteed. Next year is a much better starting pitching free agent class. Team is in a rebuild and will lose 95+ games this year. These are just innings guys to get through the year.

    2
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    • JimtheEsquire

      2 years ago

      The team is not in a rebuild. The Cardinals historically don’t do that and the roster isn’t in a rebuild. If they were in a true rebuild they’d be trading away Goldy, Arenado, Edman, basically everyone but Wynn and Walker.

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      • Joel P

        2 years ago

        Yeah the team isn’t rebuilding at all. If it was why sign these old guys like Lynn and Gibson? There is a really good chance Liberatore and Thompson are both better than these bums right now.

        I hate both these signings. This is awful.

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        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          Thompson, maybe, but not the Liberatore we saw pitch this past season.

          Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      I’m not sure that’s a good strategy. This is an aging core, with Arenado and Goldy both already past their prime, Contreras not being a kid, and they’ll have increasing contracts with Edman and Donovan set to make some bank in arbitration and Contreras’ salary increasing. Cards just aren’t going to spend on major long term contracts, so betting that suddenly they’re going to spend money on several free agent pitchers next year is a fool’s bet. This year’s class has Yamamoto, Snell, Nola (already signed, but he was in the class), Gray, Montgomery, Rodriguez, Imanaga, Giolito, and Stroman, all of whom could serve as 1-2 guys. Add to that Cease, Bieber, and Glasnow who could be gotten in trades, and there were a ton of options to win now. Next year has about eight guys who would slot as 1-2 at this point in their career, and the bidding will be high. Waiting was not really an option.

      Reply
      • Eovaldismemes

        2 years ago

        saying nolan is past his prime is funny, goldy i get but both still can produce like prior years…

        Reply
        • Charlie'sSinging

          2 years ago

          You realize “past his prime” and “not good” are two very different things, don’t you? He’ll be 33 in April and just had the worst full year of his career. That would be the definition of “past his prime”. They’re very good players, but their prime years are definitely done. Prime is peak. Peak is something they are no longer at.

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      • ih8tepaperstraws

        2 years ago

        Glasnow a free agent next year as is Bieber. Also available next year is Cole, Fried, Burnes, Wheeler, Ray, Freddy Peralta, Buehler, potentially Woodruff and probably another Japanese pitcher. Next year is a much better pool and the depth allows the Cardinals a shot to get one or two. Nola was never leaving Philly, Snell and Gray are bad fits, and they have no shot at Yamamoto. This team is in a rebuild, they won’t say it though because holiday ticket plans are on sale. Goldschmidt and Arenado will most likely be traded as will a few other pieces. We knew this team was going to be bad going into last year and 2024 was going to be worse. But at least they are making the right moves to not screw up the rebuild process. Their minors are empty except Chase Davis. It needs rebuilt via trades and with the high draft picks they will get for ‘23, ‘24, and ‘25. Hopefully 25 will be in the teens rather than top 5 though.

        Reply
        • BrewCrewFan'

          2 years ago

          Peralta is not available next year btw

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        • krhuff

          2 years ago

          Unknown if “better pool”…………some teams DO resign their SPs before they get that chance to be a Free Agent after next season.

          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          I’m not a Cardinals fan, but I agree with this sentiment and the sentiment that Joel P. and others have expressed on the quality of the Lynn/Gibson signings.. The Cardinals rotation is not looking good for next year, but maybe that’s ok. As a Rays fan, I can tell you that a solid rotation is at least 7 deep, and most teams don’t have that. If either Lynn or Gibson have good seasons in 2024, the Cardinals will be able to flip them for a couple goodish prospects (not a top guy of course). It’s a wise strategy for replenishing the Farm if they don’t lose their nerve of treating next year like a reset year, if that’s what they’re doing.

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        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          @paper straws
          It doesn’t matter how many FA starting pitchers there are. There is always a shortage. Everyone that becomes a FA creates a hole in some teams rotation, causing a need.

          Reply
        • ih8tepaperstraws

          2 years ago

          The club has an 8 million dollar option. With Burnes and Woodruff gone, I’m not sure they pick that up.

          Reply
  17. Charlie'sSinging

    2 years ago

    Glad people are seeing that this is just what the Cards are going to do instead of the bizarre optimism yesterday. Welcome to our ownership and front office’s way of pretending they’re trying to be competitive. One SP slot left. Even if they fill it with an ace, they aren’t competitive with the rest of the staff they’ll have. Sad.

    3
    Reply
  18. RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame

    2 years ago

    Yikes. Was really thinking they were gonna go after at least 1 top tier guy.

    Who’s the 3rd starter gonna be? Severino? Maeda?

    Reply
    • bighiggy

      2 years ago

      My guess is maeda. Another if to join their whole rotation of if’s. Honestly they could put Thompson as the number 5, and liberatore in the bullpen. Libby did well there. Unless they trade libby or Thompson, there’s only room for one more starter and I’m betting its not cease or beiber.

      Reply
    • cah011381

      2 years ago

      Wacha, lol

      1
      Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      No – both too young and not White.

      Probably be Syndergaard.

      Reply
  19. Jiggs

    2 years ago

    Cardinals cleaning house on FA SP. I bet Gibson wins 25 next year.

    Reply
  20. mlb1225

    2 years ago

    Chad innings eater

    Reply
  21. JimtheEsquire

    2 years ago

    Hoping it still leaves $35-40M left to spend. At that point as long as Mikolas doesn’t get hurt in the preseason, Matz and Liberatore actually show up, Lynn and Gibson can eat innings, and we sign an actual ace the rotation isn’t all that bad.

    1
    Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      That’s a whole lot of “if’s”.

      3
      Reply
      • JimtheEsquire

        2 years ago

        Baseball is a lot of “if’s” as are all the other sports.

        1
        Reply
        • Charlie'sSinging

          2 years ago

          Too many if’s are almost never a recipe for success in any sport.

          Reply
  22. hiflew

    2 years ago

    I just looked at his stats. Gibson actually has double digit wins in 8 of past 9 full seasons. You would have won a drink off me with that bar bet.

    1
    Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      You want to win your money back? He had an ERA above 4.70 each of the last three years and above 5.00 two of the last three. That’s easy money!

      1
      Reply
      • iverbure

        2 years ago

        Why on earth would anyone be looking at pitcher win totals?

        Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          Because for starting pitchers, wins matter. It means he pitched more than 5 innings on his 100 pitch limit for every win. It means he out pitched his opponent. It means he made his starts and wasn’t injured for lengthy periods. Look at the 15 win starters over the last five years. The ones that reach that total are the ones you want in your rotation.

          2
          Reply
  23. PhilliePhan

    2 years ago

    As a Phillies fan I’m frustrated for Cardinal fans. It’s still early in the off-season, keep the faith Cards fans.

    8
    Reply
    • CJ81

      2 years ago

      thank you. they can still make a big move. im hoping the front office is viewing these arms as insurance.

      1
      Reply
  24. wvsteve

    2 years ago

    Would love to play poker against Mo

    3
    Reply
  25. drasco036

    2 years ago

    More great news for Cubs fans!

    2
    Reply
    • Unclemike1525

      2 years ago

      drascoo- Not really scaring anyone so far. Like I said, When they said they needed 3 starters I assumed they meant good ones. They let Kninzer go and now Contreras is catching these guys? That’s not going to be pretty.

      2
      Reply
      • drasco036

        2 years ago

        I kind of figured that with Arenado and Goldie, they would have nabbed some decent pitching, Stroman, ed-rod, Giolito, maybe not top tier guys but guys that slot great into a three spot.
        The Cardinals got two five hole pitchers to throw to Contreras who isn’t exactly known for getting the most of a pitcher.
        For the Cardinals market size and typical spending, Lynn, Gibson and tendering O’Neil didn’t make one lick of sense to me.

        Reply
  26. JerseyShoreScore

    2 years ago

    Cardinals are cornering the market on back end number 5/6 type starters…

    These are the type of starters you sign in late January or February when you realize you did not get any good starting pitchers…

    2
    Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      Couldn’t agree more. These are the guys that get signed for half price in February. But why pay half price later when you can pay double today!

      1
      Reply
    • cah011381

      2 years ago

      They already know they’re not getting any good ones so they’re getting these guys before they’re gone.

      3
      Reply
      • stymeedone

        2 years ago

        The Cards likely had no competition. These players were not expecting to have meaningful conversations with teams until much closer to Spring Training.

        1
        Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      Or trying to fetch lightning in a bottle like Mo actually did for a while w/ Lester and J.A. Happ trades. Problem being “lightning in a bottle” doesn’t last entire seasons.

      1
      Reply
  27. Buzzz Killington

    2 years ago

    Next they’ll trade for Jordan Lyles and say they’re off-season is complete.

    2
    Reply
    • Buzzz Killington

      2 years ago

      *their

      Reply
  28. AL B DAMNED

    2 years ago

    I quit drinking years ago, but if Kyle Gibson wins 25 games next year, I will have a drink with Jiggs and hiflew over the cookoos nest!

    3
    Reply
    • Buzzz Killington

      2 years ago

      Lol how about if he somehow wins 15 again? Gotta be something somewhat possible.

      1
      Reply
  29. getrealgone2

    2 years ago

    Merge to form Junk Rotation.

    2
    Reply
  30. Orioles Legend Andy Van Slyke

    2 years ago

    Perhaps I’m reading too much into this but hopefully, this is a sign that John Angelos is going to crack open the checkbook and let Elias make a big starting pitcher signing.

    Reply
    • CityofChampions

      2 years ago

      I think Gibson wasn’t really high on the priority list. I don’t think this really says anything unfortunately.

      We could cobble together a rotation without Gibson next year.

      Kremer, Bradish, Wells, G-Rod, and Means is 5 guys.
      Irvin and Povich are the depth arms.

      I hope we do get an impact arm though.

      1
      Reply
      • krhuff

        2 years ago

        Cards’ fan here, but I’ll jump in on the O’s. I had their one big move this offseason being signing Eduardo Rodriguez. Seems like a good fit.

        Reply
  31. gojira15

    2 years ago

    Wow. So it’s basically the same team as last year, which flopped hard, only they don’t have Montgomery. I think Lynn and Gibson can approximate Flaherty and Wainwright.

    3
    Reply
  32. AgentF

    2 years ago

    Cardinals aren’t wasting any time. They’ll face a lot of the same decisions next year, though.

    2
    Reply
  33. DonOsbourne

    2 years ago

    Like I said yesterday, as a Cardinals fan, there is nothing to say or do here. Just have to wait this out.

    1.) Don’t buy tickets for next season.

    2.) Cancel my cable subscription.

    3) Follow Skip Schumacher and the “should be” Cardinals in Miami.

    5
    Reply
  34. Devlsh

    2 years ago

    Fun Fact: Gibby 2.0 led the AL in allowing 198 hits last year, the same number Gibby 1.0 allowed in 1968….while throwing an additional 112 innings!

    In other words, that’s over 12 nine inning no-hitters on top of Kyle’s 2023.

    Reply
    • Orioles Legend Andy Van Slyke

      2 years ago

      Fun Fact: Despite Gibson 2.0 leading the league in hits allowed in 2023, he had a lower WHIP than the entire Cardinals pitching staff.

      In other words, mediocrity is an upgrade.

      Reply
  35. spudchukar

    2 years ago

    Unless the Red Bird management feels strongly they have a real shot at Yamamota or perhaps Snell this is disappointing bigtime. If they don’t make a splash signing I recommend Arenado and Goldy ask for a trade!

    3
    Reply
    • stymeedone

      2 years ago

      Yamamota and Snell are already reconsidering whether to answer the phone when it rings.

      Reply
  36. TJW

    2 years ago

    Good Lord…. first a 37 year old Lynn, now a 36 year old Gibson. I guess we’ll son a “youngster” like Wacha next and call it a day.

    4
    Reply
    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      I wouldn’t be shocked if Wacha was next. I really wouldn’t.

      This is pathetic.

      2
      Reply
  37. steve2345 2

    2 years ago

    not sure why people are surprised. this is the Cardinal’s M.O.

    3
    Reply
  38. SupremeZeus

    2 years ago

    Everything’s coming up MOhouse!

    2
    Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      I’ll thumbs up any Milhouse reference.

      Reply
    • getrealgone2

      2 years ago

      “Can I borrow a starter?”

      Hahha and that’s your picture on the front!

      1
      Reply
  39. hoof hearted

    2 years ago

    Not what I thought of when they said they wanted to add acouple SP..
    I thought they would aim alittle higher

    Reply
    • stymeedone

      2 years ago

      I just thought they would aim.

      Reply
  40. Seamaholic

    2 years ago

    On the bright side that’s a couple warm (if a bit old) bodies for not a ton of money. If they can make a trade now for a higher end arm like Glasnow or Cease, it could be considered a success. But they won’t get either for O’Neill or Carlson.

    Reply
    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      Glasnow is not that valuable. You gotta pay Glasnow and I dont think the Cardinals will want to do that anyways.

      I would take Bieber but this is not good no matter what at this point.

      Reply
      • krhuff

        2 years ago

        ALL EXPERTS rate Glasnow >>>>>>> Bieber now. Glasnow’s “stuff’ is just flat-out way better when consdering the two and where they’re at in their careers. Glasnow’s problem is he gets hurt way too often. Matz 2.0.

        Reply
      • mp2891

        2 years ago

        Oh you…. Glasnow is winning the Cy Young in 2024 (not really kidding, as I think he’ll be in the race).

        LOL Bieber. Is he still that much better than Gibson and Lynn?

        Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          Don’t Cy Young winners have to pitch a full healthy season?

          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          And why can’t Glasnow pitch a full season next year? All his injuries prior to 2023 were arm related that required TJS to fix. He put it off for several years, but he finally got it done in 2021 and pitched fine in 2023.

          Reply
        • Joel P

          2 years ago

          He’s never pitched a full season in his life. Sure it’s possible but teams won’t assume it’s going to happen.

          Reply
        • mp2891

          2 years ago

          We will see. I’d rather take the risk on 1 year of Glasnow at $25MM than lock myself in to 4/$100MM of Sonny Gray.

          Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      Not a ton of $?!?!?!? websites that specialize in market-rate had BOTH of them for SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than what the Cardinals signed them for. If you took the market rates, they SHOULD HAVE been able to sign BOTH for a combined $18.5 – $19 M……………..they signed them for a combined $23 M!!!!! That’s $4.5 – $5 Mil. WASTED!!!!!

      Reply
  41. TrillionaireTeamOperator

    2 years ago

    Another solid one year deal on a somewhat reliable veteran that is cheap by today’s standards.

    Cards are very good at this. The Cardinals and the Braves are the best at spreading their budget around and paying guys well, but rarely if ever overpaying.

    Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      LMFAO!!!! They’re NOT Overpaying these two?!?!?!!? ALL SITES that give Market-rates have them overpaying BOTH of them by a good $2 – $2.5 Mil. EACH!!!!!! Add that overage together and that’s one VERY GOOD ‘pen arm that could’ve been had, had they just signed them to the projected market-rate!!!!!

      Reply
  42. ba$eba||F@n21

    2 years ago

    Cards fans whining about Gibson yet I’m pretty sure he was better than Jack last year. I know he was definitely better than him when both were on the O’s, so I’d consider that an improvement over what you had last season.

    1
    Reply
    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      He’s not what the team needs. The team needs high upside risky pitchers to have a shot to be a legit contender not old innings eaters. Gibson would be a solid pickup for some teams but not the Cardinals.

      Reply
      • krhuff

        2 years ago

        He’d’ve been a better pick-up than L. Lynn to be the No. 5 SP.

        Picking BOTH OF THEM up was just MORONIC!!!

        Reply
      • ba$eba||F@n21

        2 years ago

        Gibson is a solid pick up for the Cards as a back end rotation piece. Clearly he can stabilize the back end of the rotation, along with Lynn. In that regard he’s a solid pickup. He wasn’t signed to slot into the front of the rotation. At least I’d hope that isn’t the plan for them. I am sure they are gunning for multiple other pitchers, will just need to see how it all shakes out.

        Reply
    • bighiggy

      2 years ago

      Minor improvements don’t help them make up like 25 games in the standings. They might be closer to 500 this year than 20 below.

      1
      Reply
      • Joel P

        2 years ago

        Exactly we needed high risk high reward types not Lynn and Gibson. This sucks.

        Reply
        • bighiggy

          2 years ago

          I wouldn’t be surprised if they trade for patrick Corbin or Jake odirizzi lol. Corner the market on pitchers who “eat” innings but lead the league in hits given up

          Reply
    • kremer

      2 years ago

      Idea is to not replicate last season….

      Reply
    • Charlie'sSinging

      2 years ago

      Actually incorrect from the Cardinals perspective. Jack was better in his time with the Cardinals than Gibson was last season. And if we’re looking to improve, what matters is whether we’re improving over the team we had last year, not the team someone else had.

      1
      Reply
      • ba$eba||F@n21

        2 years ago

        If you compare the 2023 season Kyle Gibson had to the 2023 season Jack had, Kyle would be an upgrade over Jack – that’s the gist of what I was saying. I didn’t make the comment to compare who did what with a specific team, the point was over the entire season, Kyle was the better pitcher and thus should be an upgrade over Jack for the Cards.

        Reply
  43. Card66

    2 years ago

    Just what we needed another old pitcher, keep saving the money MO.

    1
    Reply
  44. Charlie'sSinging

    2 years ago

    If they use all the money they’re saving to make a run for Ohtani to have his bat this year and bat and arm next year, I’ll be ok with this. They won’t, and Ohtani would turn them down if they did, but I’d be ok with that magical hypothetical scenario.

    Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      ONLY acquisition that I’d be ok with that would explain why they’re doing what they’re doing is Yamamoto.

      But if that’s what they were preparing for, then they should’ve paid Lynn & Gibson at their market rates…..not a Good $2M more than what they should’ve gotten each!!!

      Reply
  45. Four4fore

    2 years ago

    On the bright side neither of these signing have negatively effect my Top 50 scorecard which is still at 0 for 2.

    2
    Reply
  46. Charlie'sSinging

    2 years ago

    Wow, spend $23 million on these guys, or spend $25 million on a top tier guy and fill in the 5 spot with someone like Thompson. That shouldn’t have been a hard choice…but apparently it was.

    4
    Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      Exactly….98% of G.M.s OR would-be G.M.s would go the route you describe………….then there’s Mo.

      1
      Reply
  47. bvl1028

    2 years ago

    Good thing for Gibson is he will be traded to a contender by August 1st.

    Reply
  48. Daryl Pauley

    2 years ago

    Somebody on a Board predicted this would happen and he was laughed at.
    Look what just happened. and I ain’t laughing.

    Why even bother to announce a signing of this caliber.?

    1
    Reply
  49. n2thecards

    2 years ago

    if they sign Sonny Gray and trade for Cease, that’s still a respectable rotation.

    Reply
    • Joel P

      2 years ago

      At best there were going to be 3 new additions to the rotation. So at best we are talking 1 more pitcher. Can’t trade Mikolas he’s making too much. Matz is the only lefty and again makes a lot of money.

      This sucks.

      Reply
      • n2thecards

        2 years ago

        what if Matz gets hurt again? he’s not exactly been reliable for more than 15-20 starts. if there’s room on the 40 man, I am okay with this. definitely don’t need Naile, Kennedy or Siani on the 40 man come spring

        1
        Reply
        • kremer

          2 years ago

          What if? Try “When”. He has never thrown for more than 160 innings in a season. When he does throw it’s 5 Innings, max. He’s Blake Snell that isn’t any good.

          Reply
  50. themustache

    2 years ago

    I like the cut of your jib.

    Reply
  51. Daryl Pauley

    2 years ago

    I still think the impending doom of losing streaming rights is behind these lesser signings.

    1
    Reply
  52. JoeBrady

    2 years ago

    This makes no sense.

    From a payroll perspective, they are now $8M below last year’s budget.

    From a talent perspective, they replaced Monty & Flaherty with Lynn & Gibson. That has to be a downgrade to a team that only finished with 71 wins.

    I have no idea where they are going with this.

    1
    Reply
    • FrontOfficeStan

      2 years ago

      They replaced Waino and Flaherty with 2 pitchers that outperformed them last year. Monty replacement should still be coming.

      1
      Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      Hey, I’m ripping this all apart like everyone else, BUT I would say that they replaced Waino & Flaherty…………NOT Monty & Flaherty.

      Reply
  53. Degaz

    2 years ago

    Yikes! $22M for Lynn and Gibson??

    2
    Reply
  54. Shady mapleworth

    2 years ago

    mo has got to be stoned out of his mind

    2
    Reply
  55. wvsteve

    2 years ago

    I just don’t see one of the top SP free agents landing in StL. Their best bet is to make a trade with one of their young position players with with either Sea or WSox

    Reply
  56. deeds

    2 years ago

    The Cardinal Way is to hire pitching nobody else wants. Need new ownership and management.

    3
    Reply
  57. Bounty Hunters IA

    2 years ago

    The batters from the other 4 NL central teams have to be excited by the 2 duds the cesspool east missouri franchise has signed. A team with 4-5 #5 starters is going to be so bad and that is so good for the rest of the league! The decline continues

    Reply
  58. msqboxer

    2 years ago

    The only way this works is if STL GM Mozielak has the framework in place to trade for a front end starter that is under salary control. Some kind of multi player package of a Carlson, Herrea, Donovan, Scott, Liberatore, O’Neill, Gracefo or dare say Gorman depending how how that starter might be.

    1
    Reply
    • drasco036

      2 years ago

      I love delusional fans, “here take any number of these crappy players for an Ace with team control”.

      An Ace with team control, you’re giving up Walker, Gorman and probably Winn or Hence to get the conversation started.

      No team dealing an Ace wants Liberatore, O’Neil or Carlson. Donovan, Herrera aren’t headling any package but would be acceptable additions.

      2
      Reply
  59. FrontOfficeStan

    2 years ago

    Should be more upset over Lynn than Gibby. Both signings are fine, but I expect Snell to be added too. If that does not happen, or a trade involving a top starter, then I will echo the pessimistic sentiment. Until then, I will remain optimistic.

    2
    Reply
  60. dano62

    2 years ago

    How many No. 4-5 starters can a team collect? This is not the answer -it’s not cheap either… I’m thinking of cancelling my annual St Loo trip & just catch them somewhere on the road. Terrible.

    Reply
  61. Pads Fans

    2 years ago

    I would be really ticked if this was the best my favorite team could do when they needed two TOR starters.

    Reply
  62. jazzy

    2 years ago

    Same old story

    1
    Reply
  63. Rantucky

    2 years ago

    Cards should just do like Miami and start the aaa starters even though they’re not ready. Take their lumps and learn from them while the team finishes last and gets better draft picks. Also, put Chaim Bloom in charge.

    1
    Reply
  64. Rsox

    2 years ago

    Cardinals have won with lesser rotations it’s not the big “sexy” deals fans hope for but ask yourself if you really want to be hancuffed to long-term big money deals?

    1
    Reply
    • drasco036

      2 years ago

      I doubt that.

      Reply
      • Rsox

        2 years ago

        The ’06 team won with the like of Jason Marquis, Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver and Sidney Ponson. The ’11 team won with Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, Edwin Jackson and Kyle McClellan

        This group isn’t any worse than those groups

        1
        Reply
  65. jazzy

    2 years ago

    Same old story wow

    Reply
  66. Cha Cha Cha

    2 years ago

    I guess me and the wife won’t be going to our usual 12 games this year. Lied to again !!!!

    Reply
  67. Never Remember

    2 years ago

    I guess Cardinals really are playing to finish at .500. What a cheapskate organization.

    Reply
  68. Logjammer D"Baggagecling

    2 years ago

    So he’s going from a playoff team to a team that might finish 3rd or 4th.

    Reply
  69. Deerslayer1

    2 years ago

    I guess the Cardinals forgot they hit four consecutive first inning home runs against Kyle Gibson in 2022 when he was with the Phillies. That’s Bad man

    Reply
    • mikejoann6

      2 years ago

      And Lynn gave up four home runs in one inning in the playoffs. Cards must love guys like that.

      1
      Reply
  70. Four4fore

    2 years ago

    That’s got something to do with it, but let’s be real about this when has Mo gone out and actually signed top tier pitching?

    Reply
  71. swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123

    2 years ago

    please keep these comments up, they make me laugh every time

    2
    Reply
    • Cardsfan21

      2 years ago

      Me too. Especially since the person he identifies is most certainly not me. But it does make me giggle to think that some random stranger may be getting threats from an unhinged dude online who just sucks at talking trash. My bad, an “expert”.

      Reply
      • swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123

        2 years ago

        my comment was supposed to be positive. buddy i don’t mean to be rude or anything but it was a joke. maybe try to lighten your mood a bit since his whole comment was a joke? even if no one laughed at it i thought it was funny

        Reply
      • Cardsfan21

        2 years ago

        Oh I’m not upset in the slightest. I will say I am genuinely curious as to who would find his rant funny and how, but no worries here.

        Reply
  72. krhuff

    2 years ago

    Seeing a Lynn Signing………..not bad for a No. 5 SP.

    Seeing a K. Gibson Signing…..even better for a No. 5 SP.

    Seeing both on back-to-back Days when seemingly ALL 30 TEAMS KNEW how badly St. L needed Starting Pitching and they were in the Bottom 3 – 4 in the ENTIRE LEAGUE w/ the stats. of their rotation a year ago and when they’d publicized that they would acquire 3 New SPs, NEITHER is arguably better than a No. 4 SP?!?!!?!?!

    To think, they COULD HAVE combined what they’re giving those two ($23M for 1-year) and signed an ACTUALLY GOOD No. 2 SP type. Heck, an Eduardo Rodriguez, for example, is being projected to sign a 5-year, $110 M deal (that’s only $22M / yr.). They’d still have spent the same $ they have now and their 4 & 5 would’ve been Mikolas & Z. Thompson in lieu of K. Gibson & L. Lynn. In this exercise, I’m slotting Matz in as the No. 3. Only w/ what they’ve ACTUALLY DONE, EITHER he OR Mikolas would ACTUALLY HAVE TO Slot in as the No. 2 now!!!!

    This Signing is actually DAMAGING to the team and what SUPPOSEDLY this offseason was supposed to be about w/ improving the Pitching Staff.

    Some are saying that possibly, Matz with the recurring injuries might be switched back to the ‘pen and there may actually be as many as FOUR NEW SPs from last year to this…….1 more Signing and one more Trade. Or that Matz might even be traded. Dude had something like a 1.93 ERA his last 13 starts before going on the Inj. List to end his season last season.

    But if you’re a non-Cardinals’ fan, this Signing is WAY WORSE than what we got w/ the Lynn News!!!! 🙁

    Reply
  73. good vibes only

    2 years ago

    Mozeliak is wasting his payroll with bad arms the way Dipoto does with bad bats

    Reply
    • barkinghumans77

      2 years ago

      I still think with this group that Thompson gets a shot. Trying to stay hopeful because there is a long ways til spring

      Reply
  74. BaseballisLife

    2 years ago

    I am so sorry Cardinals fans. Is a trade for Patrick Corbin or a signing of Lucas Giolito next?

    Have to lock of the bottom of this list after all.

    fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&st…

    Reply
  75. good vibes only

    2 years ago

    No way do they blow past their high payroll mark to add an ace to this roster as constructed. They’ll try to address it by trade if they can.

    Reply
    • barkinghumans77

      2 years ago

      And that’s fine as long as they add one. I could see signing one and still making trades to relieve the payroll. Sign Yoshinobu and trade for prospects? Along those lines

      Reply
  76. YourDreamGM

    2 years ago

    Their rotation isn’t going to scare anyone. They are paying full $ for meh guys. If their bats perform it could be enough to get in playoffs and likely out fast. More can go wrong with these older arms than likely hood of upside.

    Reply
  77. panj341

    2 years ago

    Well it looks like the Cards will finish back ahead of the Pirates again. Can’t see Nutting paying this much for a couple of back end starters that they need desperately.

    Reply
  78. jerseystrongsports

    2 years ago

    Not bad signing, eats innings and keeps in the game.

    1
    Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      lmfao

      Reply
  79. freeland1787

    2 years ago

    Kyle Gibson is your quintessential No. 5 starter. Eats innings, mediocre run prevention, very little downside on that deal.

    Reply
  80. Tdat1979

    2 years ago

    Cards now have a #3 (Mikolas) and 3 #5s (Lynn, Gibson, and Matz). I guess they’re hoping 2 of their rookies become aces this year.

    Reply
    • krhuff

      2 years ago

      COME ON!!!!! Matz is no worse than a 3 and was WAY BETTER than Mikolas last season!!!! 2.40 ERA, 0.97 WHIP from May 25th – Aug. 12th?!?!?!?!

      Dude has major talent, it’s just……can he stay healthy!!!!

      Mikolas had a period of looking like a “2” whereas he’s been trending down to looking more like a “4”.. Ironically, had he stayed healthy, Matz looked like he was trending the exact opposite way.

      2
      Reply
  81. CardsFan57

    2 years ago

    This had better be followed with trading Goldschmidt and Arenado. They absolutely are not competing this year. Go full rebuild if you aren’t going to compete.

    3
    Reply
  82. octavian8

    2 years ago

    As a Reds fan I am surprised at the Lynn and Gibson signings. I kept hearing Nola or Gray but Card’s GM went cheap. He better hope they work out or the pitchforks will come if they aren’t already.

    1
    Reply
  83. Jesse Chavez enthusiast

    2 years ago

    I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I do see a value in guys Gibson who can eat up innings. Sure he’s nothing spectacular, but getting through 180 innings has value today. Hopefully for Cardinals fans they have room for a top end starter.

    Reply
    • barkinghumans77

      2 years ago

      I don’t particularly care for the signings but as long as they follow through on what they are saying it’s fine. Mo acknowledged yesterday there is still work to be done.

      Reply
  84. baked mcbride

    2 years ago

    Gibby’s a real pro. Cards are better off with him. After his playing career is over he really should think about a career in Western motion pictures. Tall lanky fella always reminded me of a gunslinger.

    Reply
  85. its_happening

    2 years ago

    Cards fans have every right to call for the GM’s job. Not rebuilding, not looking to contend, pure smoke and mirror signings pretending to do something.

    2
    Reply
  86. meangreandancingmachine

    2 years ago

    I guess I’ll hold my tongue until we see what the final rotation will be. Clearly, as of now, this team needs a No. 1 and No. 2. Neither exist on this team as it is right now. I can see Gibson as a No. 3, Mikolas as a No. 4 and Lynn as a No. 5. If I could look into the future and see that Mo and company are planning on bringing in a NO. 1 and No. 2, then Gibson/Mikolas/Lynn on the back-end is perfectly fine. If, however, they plan on bringing in just one “ace,” then that means Gibson is No. 2, Mikolas No. 3, Lynn No. 4 and Matz or Thompson as No. 5. That’s not much of an improvement over last year.

    What worries me is iwth $21 million wasted on Lynn and Gibson, there isn’t enough cash left over to bring in a Sonny Gray or someone better. So – that means the “ace” will come from a trade. And unless they are willing to deal one or both of Gorman and Nootbaar, Cards ain’t getting that “ace”.

    Strange…

    3
    Reply
  87. Edub23

    2 years ago

    Thought the Cards should have gone after Lugo and Maeda instead of Lynn and Gibson.

    1
    Reply
  88. comptoncardinal

    2 years ago

    22 million spent on two #5 pitchers. That could have went towards one top of the rotation arm. Cool. Not getting a dime of my money this year. Last game I went to had 6k at the gate. Get used to that. Sad that we wasted Arenado’s prime.

    1
    Reply
  89. Gumby82

    2 years ago

    $12 million for a 36 year old pitcher who had an ERA of almost 5? I really should have practiced harder when I was a kid

    2
    Reply
  90. Andrew-UK

    2 years ago

    These signings make sense IF the next signing is Blake Snell. Gibson and Lynn are aging, yes, but both are historically healthy, and both will pitch 150+ innings. Snell is injury prone, but is almost highest of high ceilings. To take a chance on Snell you have to also have the cheaper bulk innings guys to balance.

    Reply
  91. Daryl Pauley

    2 years ago

    Bernie Miklasz wrote 2 columns today discussing the moves the Cardinals made today. Google “Bern Baby Bern” and see what this long time Cardinal writer has to say. I trust this pundit not to feed us fans a lot of BS.
    Bern Baby Bern, check it out you won’t feel as bad.

    2
    Reply
  92. Daryl Pauley

    2 years ago

    Gibson is a Mizzou alumni. That counts for something.
    I mean I went there for a semester and look how I turned out. Never mind.

    1
    Reply
    • Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher

      2 years ago

      Mikolas, Lynn and Gibson! Not exactly Nola, Snell and Yamamoto. Looks like the Cardinals are shopping in the bargain basement. Sorry, I’m not impressed.

      1
      Reply
      • mikejoann6

        2 years ago

        Mo is famous for his low hanging fruit free agents over the last decade.

        1
        Reply
  93. msqboxer

    2 years ago

    Need pitchers with “swing and miss stuff” is all you heard last year. I heard Rich Hill and Zach Grienke just landed their planes at the airport.

    1
    Reply
  94. snakebyte32

    2 years ago

    I may be wrong, but I think replacing Jack and Jordan with Kyle and Lance is a net negative in a department we were told would be a focus of management. The offseason is early and maybe there is a plan for a trade, but I don’t see them spending a draft pick in the early rounds on one of the better FA pitchers available or ponying up the big bucks for a fancy new Japanese import. If they spend more money this offseason I expect it will be on early extensions or a relief pitcher and they will need to get any rotation improvement via trade. I am not sure why I am still somehow disappointed when this is essentially what I was expecting, but here I sit…

    1
    Reply
  95. norcalblue

    2 years ago

    Spending $12m on a 36 year-old fifth starter who will put up below league average performance is an indictment of this organization’s player development system. Sheeesh…..

    1
    Reply
  96. donl

    2 years ago

    These 2 signings were not great, but definitely an improvement in that they basically replaced Wainwright & Flaherty, who were not only bad but couldn’t be counted on due to injuries. And don’t forget the salaries -Wainwright made $17M, and these 2 guys are being paid $22M. Sounds like a good deal for the Cards to me. I do believe there will be a big-name pitcher still to come. Hopefully, whoever they sign won’t be for more than 4 years, which is probably 2 years more than it should be for any pitcher.

    Reply
    • rynoresumes

      2 years ago

      I’d love to workout a deal for manoah from Toronto. Top of the rotation pitcher. Had a bad year. Hits everything we could want.

      Reply
      • mp2891

        2 years ago

        Disagree. Elite professional players don’t fall apart like Manoah did outside injury. I’d stay away from the guy.

        Reply
  97. BashBroJoe

    2 years ago

    I know this is crazy but as an Orioles fan I actually felt good when Gibson took the bump. I also strongly felt he should have got the start over Kremer in Game 3 against Texas. Not that it mattered. Anyway congrats to Gibby. Great guy.

    Reply
  98. rynoresumes

    2 years ago

    I dont see this as an absolutely terrible move. I mean, yea mo is dumpster diving. But he is probably also playing hardball on some deals with teams. So he’s making other’s seem like they are losing a bidder. cat and mouse. But this move reminds me of a Jeff suppan type of guy. #4 or #5. He pitched in Phil in a hitters park. I think we could see high high 3s like 3.98 or a 4.3 Era or so. he does give up Homer’s, but he keeps batters off the path via walks. And the cardinals like ground ball pitchers. This is another one. The cards try to pride themselves on defense. So, Mozeliaks MO has been ground ball pitchers. I see this as a 12-13 wins year. eats innings. I honestly feel the cardinals are poking the whole starting market for trades, including cease and so forth from the whitesox. the blow Jay’s are also open to monah, and if he can turn things around, could be that Jack Flaherty we expected based on how well he started out. I think there’s a ton of potential in him and he could really headline the starting staff. If im MO, I’m open to anyone in the mid infield like edman, Gorman, r Donavan. We have replacements for them already. We don’t have a #1 guy yet. Libertore was supposed to be this but has been f-in around and finding out. I woudnt trade all 3 in a deal, but I’d part with one and maybe another asset. But this dude could really be good.

    Reply
  99. rynoresumes

    2 years ago

    if I were the cardinals I’d stay away from TB on the Glasnow deal. TB only trades guys they know something is wrong with. They fleece every team in MLB. plus Glasnow has never thrown a full season injury free. Just too costly and we could bring back waino to pitch 10 games next year for what we’d get out of glasnow. in my mind, if a pitcher is like glasnow or degrom you realize they have so much potential do exceptional when they pitch, but it’s never consistent. Monaoh would be a good pitcher I’d be focused on. We have a history of trading with the blow Jay’s anyways.

    Reply
  100. rynoresumes

    2 years ago

    although I like sonny gray, I don’t like the compensation attached to him. I think we can find some young, and talented starters via trade. Like a Wayne Gretzky for the blues type of move, but a younger pitcher. I think the A’s wouldn’t mind getting fleeced again. I’m sure the nationals or even going after woodruff who was just designated. good reclamation project for 25.

    Reply
  101. Gator50

    2 years ago

    LOVE where this off season is going for the Cards. Reclamation projects at best, with significant dumpster fire risk.

    Reply
  102. Steve Adams Is A Hack

    2 years ago

    “Meanwhile” has to come at the start of the sentence; it can’t come in the middle. I don’t understand how EVERY writer for MLBTR doesn’t know this.

    Reply
  103. Philly

    2 years ago

    Cardinals starting pitchers lost 64 games in 2023 with a 5.08ERA, 1.49WHIP, allowed 250 barreled balls, struck out 6.92 per nine innings and had the second worst overall “stuff” in the National League according to fangraphs

    Gibson was 15-9 with a 4.13FIP, 33 starts, 192 innings, 157 strike outs, a good 49.7% ground ball rate, better than average walk rate and solid .200WOBA allowed against 816 breaking pitches thrown. Gibson finished with a 2.45ERA over his last five starts and had a 0.667WHIP in three post season innings.

    However, Gibson’s 4.73ERA ranked just 79th among qualified big league pitchers. He allowed a 44% hard hit rate, 589 batted balls (4th most in baseball) and 1.318WHIP while finishing with just 0.9bWAR.

    The Cardinals may have been one of the best fielding teams in terms of percentage, were one of the worst teams in converting batted balls into outs. So the Gibson signing really doesn’t impress me. Especially when you pair him with Mikolas who led the National League in hits allowed.

    Reply

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