The Pirates have added a pair of arms to their rotation this offseason by signing Martin Perez and acquiring Marco Gonzales, and they also just completed their long-expected deal to re-sign Andrew McCutchen. During this morning’s media availability to discuss the McCutchen deal, Cherington noted that his club hopes to add more starting pitching (Twitter link via Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette).
The free-agent market still contains a bevy of veteran starters who could likely be had on relatively affordable short-term deals — James Paxton, Jakob Junis, Sean Manaea, Frankie Montas, Noah Syndergaard and Spencer Turnbull among them. However, Mackey reported yesterday that a trade for rotation help was a likelier outcome. Of even greater note, he suggests that the Bucs could change pace at this stage of the building process, looking to consolidate several young players into a trade for a rotation arm with multiple years of club control remaining.
For a Pirates team that has far more frequently been the team trading away a veteran for a package of several young players, it’s a notable departure (and, for fans, likely a breath of fresh air). In particular, the Bucs have a glut of infield options on the 40-man roster but little place to put them all — assuming Ke’Bryan Hayes and Oneil Cruz have the left side of the diamond locked down for the foreseeable future, that is.
Nick Gonzales, Jared Triolo, Liover Peguero, Alika Williams and Ji Hwan Bae could all factor into what looks like an open audition at second base, but there aren’t enough at-bats for that group to go around. The Bucs aren’t going to get a high-end starter for one of those players alone, but any of the bunch could conceivably be packaged with other young talent to bring in a more immediate starting pitching upgrade.
Much of the focus on the pitching trade market has been on one-year rental options like Shane Bieber, Corbin Burnes and the since-traded/extended Tyler Glasnow, but there are other arms with multiple years of club control who could potentially be available. Dylan Cease is the likeliest such pitcher to change hands, but each of Jesus Luzardo, Edward Cabrera, Michael Kopech, Brady Singer, Jose Urquidy and (to a lesser extent) Framber Valdez has been mentioned in trade rumors of some degree dating back to the summer deadline. The Mariners are also an oft-speculated club with pitching to spare, though president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto has downplayed the possibility of moving one of his many interesting young arms. There are surely other names being discussed throughout the league.
Regardless of how the rotation pursuit plays out, the Pirates could have multiple moves yet in store. Cherington also indicated that his club might explore the market for catching help, which is only natural after the unfortunate news that Endy Rodriguez will miss the 2024 season following Tommy John surgery. Former No. 1 overall pick Henry Davis could be in line for a full-time audition now, and the Pirates also have also signed Ali Sanchez to a big league deal. Jason Delay is on hand as a reasonably experienced backup, too. But if Davis struggles and/or there are injuries among that trio, the depth doesn’t look great.
As is the case in any given offseason, there’s no shortage of veteran free agents who could be had on a short-term deal. The trade market also bears a handful of options, ranging from change-of-scenery candidates (e.g. Joey Bart) to underwater contracts (e.g. Christian Vazquez) to out-of-options players who may not fit their current club’s Opening Day roster (e.g. Ben Rortvedt).
The bucs are honestly not having the worst offseason, but I hope they do make a splash via trade.
Pirates need to go hard. Make a dramatic trade that no one would ever see coming.
Would love to see them make a deal for Dylan Cease
I don’t know what it would cost but if I was Cherrington that’s the move I would make.. It would invigorate the fanbase & bring excitement to the city.
They have the prospect capital to do it, and it would give them an actual ace for a change. Time to step up boldly and stop screwing around with washed up journeymen.
How many years of control does Cease have before free agency because that’s what Cherington wants. Not a one year rental
@TheMan Cease isn’t a FA until 2026.
2 24 & 25
2
A trade for a mariners starter!!
While I definitely would like a splashy move I’ll remind you the last flashy move they made was trading for Archer. I know previous regime but a flashy move for flashy move sake isn’t usually a great plan.
Could just be me, but if I’m looking to add pitching, I’m not exploring the catching market.
It’s apparent that they don’t trust Davis to be a full time catcher so yes, looking for both a catcher and a pitcher makes sense
Of course I made that as a weak attempt at humor but you’re right. And while I’m not a Bucs fan, so I don’t claim to understand, I am surprised because I thought he was considered a sure-fire catcher when drafted.
As a CLE fan the Pirates are more than welcome to have Austin Hedges back. All we ask in return is a bag of trash from the men’s restroom at PNC which is WAY more useful than Hedges.
They’ve never changed the narrative that he’s a catcher. Sports writters did when they weren’t told about the injury that kept him from catching. So it could be that they want more experience in the room. That would make sense with the limited experience on the roster as well.
Davis > Sanchez > Delay > Grant Koch > Carter Bins. If the first three are on the ML roster, we all need to pray 6 times a day that none of them get hurt.
There’s no faith that all of them will remain healthy, not an indictment of Davis’ catching. Unless you think it’s smart to not plan on having depth.
I doubt the Pirates will trade for Shane Bieber or Corbin Burnes – PTSD over the Chris Archer trade.
There’s no ptsd
different front office…
I don’t’ think it makes sense for either of those guys based on the cost it would take to get them. If you’re spending prospects, you want pitchers with control beyond next season – unless you’re going all in because you’re one piece away. The Pirates are not one piece away.
Maybe I worded it wrong, but that’s kinda my point. For the last 2 seasons the free agent catchers that were signed either couldn’t hit or spent the season on the IL. This year there’s Davis, who’s caught very little at the big club and 2 backups. They’d be crazy not to look for more catching, even if it’s a minor league deal. But the lead on any catching statement, shouldn’t be that the club doesn’t think Davis can catch.
Precisely. I prefer the singles and doubles method to free agency or trades rather than pulling off one massive deal.
The core of young hitters is here. Skenes is 1-2 years away.and Keller is the best Starting Pitcher we have
They could trade for Framber Valdez
“We’re trying to win here.”
– Dana Brown
Honestly I’m in the group of people that want more control than what Cease would offer. IF they are trading someone like Terrmar Johnson I want 3-5 years of control. Give me Jesus Luzardo. If you could get Cease with out giving up Skenes or Johnson I would do it. Anyone else would be on the table.
Cherington has recently said that he only wants a pitcher who has several years of control before hitting free agency so the recommendations of a one year rental deal for a few of our prospects isn’t going to happen
I think Ben saw what happened under the previous regime when Huntington sent 3 of our highly touted prospects for Chris Archer
D I S A S T E R
Cease has 2 yrs of control
Neils job was on the line when he made that trade. If it wasn’t going to work out, he’d be gone anyway
The Archer trade was never about Archer. It was his contract and all the team options the club could use to get out of it.
Luzardo will cost you more than Cease. He’s coming off a much better season and he has more control.
I would say as much but not more
Neil’s job wasn’t on the line until after he traded for Archer.
Your never giving up Skenes
But if you have Cease as the ace by the time he is taking the money & leaving Skenes will be there to step in as an Ace & you will get a draft pick in compensation for Cease leaving.
I think depending who else White Sox would want that Johnson as a centerpiece of a deal going back would be ok. But I think with the prospect capital the Pirates have you may be able to get it done without Johnson having to be a part of the deal.
Maybe you could get edward cabrera without having to give up Johnson, and then hope the pitching coaches can get him to improve his control.
What pitching prospect would you trade? They have enough good ones to get anyone. They better know them well though. It’s painful to trade away 6 years of even a mid starter.
They have so many sp prospects and idk them well enough
I’m ok with Johnson in a trade if it is either quality with less control (Valdez) or a little rougher around the edges who’s still pre-arb.
The White Sox have a ton of leverage with buyers at the moment, the winner of the Cease sweepstakes will almost certainly send a Top 5 from their org as part of a package. The desperation level among teams like the Red Sox will hit a fever pitch when they miss out on every top name on the market.
To your point, the price on Cease is probably as high as Valdez, Valdez is the better, more consistent pitcher. If you’re shipping out Johnson, I’d rather do it for Valdez or a top pre-arb guy.
I think the Pirates add catching depth with minor league signings. I don’t see them trading for a one year catcher. Makes no sense to their philosophy and mindset (which isn’t that sharp at times) going into the 2024 season. They have Davis, Delay and the new addition of Sanchez (the most defensively talented of the bunch) slotted into the catching role. Davis will see time in RF again while Delay and Sanchez mans behind the dish. I think Pirates should add Pitching, preferably starting. I’d be interested in bring Vince back on a one year, league minimum. Then find a veteran to platoon in RF with Davis (gets some reps at catcher this year). Not saying this team is going to win the pennant, but it doesn’t need too much beyond pitchers. First base is a huge question mark with Tellez there and Triolo stepping in as needed. With McCutchen set to DH again, there is no need to sign someone else for DH and/or another position player. Again, pitching is the major weakness and concern on this club.
Many will argue that offense is a problem, but you can’t do much with a half wit hitting coach. The guy shouldn’t be coaching little league let alone the majors. But someone sees value in the guy and us fans have to suffer a poor judgment call to keep him for the 2024 season.
All in all, there won’t be much improvement from last year. I don’t see the pirates winning more than 80 games with its current roster. It’s pitiful to expect so little from such a storied franchise. When you have the cheapest owner in all of sports, you can never have high expectations. Happy Holidays everyone and be safe going into the new year
It’s funny how the pirates keep getting these cheap owners. What’s that, four in a row?
You’d think a team who’s been last in attendance over 50 years would be near the top in spending.
Have the Pirates ever been last in attendance? Last year they were between Detroit and the White Sox. And the last year they made the playoffs they were 15th in attendance. Even in their worst years there are always a handful of teams below them in attendance.
They weren’t last in attendance last year but have never been tops either
You realize that PNC Park only holds 38,000 people?
Even if every home game is sold out, their attendance still wouldn’t be 3 million for the season
Over 50 years cumulatively.
There is usually an Oakland or Montreal disaster below them.
When they won 98 games in 2015, 68 win Milwaukee outdrew them.
Second in mlb in wins, 15th in attendance. Only in Pittsburgh is that considered a success.
In 1979, they were 10th in the NL. Out of 12.
You could go for a buck. I went to a game then where you could go the next nite for free if they won. They won, and drew less the second nite. Both under 10k.
“ half wit hitting coach” and his companion who’s equally as half witted manager
Funny how they overachieve their pythag under Shelton every year.
Must be luck because the idiot fans can’t be wrong.
Even if every home game is sold out, their attendance still wouldn’t be 3 million for the season
#mathishard
1981-I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with you about Andy Haines.
I think that he would make a fine Little League hitting coach and wish that I had someone like that advising me 60 years ago.
Proud of my pirates, reds, Detroit, KC and Otani carrying this off season. Where are the big market clubs
Daulton Varsho heading to the PIrates with Alek Manoah
I wouldn’t complain about that.
Nutting wrong with that.
Not sure I would have included the Reds in your comment!
They have made several moves and are trying to get better
They spent $45 million on an .245 hitting hitting infielder who isn’t better than any of the Reds young infielders. They Spent $16 million on a relief pitcher who gives up home runs left and right who will likely be properly lit up at GABP next season. They did sign Martinez who would be a great addition to the Red’s bullpen, but of course, the Reds are going to put him in the starting rotation.
I’m not being facetious when I say the best move the Pirates have made this winter was NOT signing Jack Flaherty. He’s Detroit’s problem now. Avoiding that move does leave the door open to acquire a quality SP.
They probably offered him 1/$8M same as Perez, which I wouldn’t have minded. But $14M is a lot to give a guy who will likely not be very good.
With the market the way it is now I would be trying to work on an extension with Keller & if he isn’t interested I would be looking to move him.
Cherrington could get young MLB ready talent. Guys with control ready to step in & play right away. I would say he could get a young SP, 2 position players that would start & a SP prospect.
Then you could sign another Manaea type SP to replace Keller in the rotation.
I think the Bucs most ideal plan for the reminder of the off season is to add a SP with some control past this year that can provide some sort of stability. Probably through a trade for someone like Cabrera. There just aren’t any teams completely tearing things down that has any solid SPs they need to trade. If they sign a FA I believe they will wait to see who is left the end of the off season like a Wood, Lauer, or Hudson. Best case scenario would be Manea or my dark horse pick is the Cuban pitcher if they feel he can start
I like the mentions everyone else has been writing above, but Brad Keller or Lorenzen look pretty good for the rotation as free agent adds. As for catcher, they should just focus on AAA depth and give Bins, Sanchez, Davis, and Delay a shot for the roster. I would like to have seen Cooper or Votto at 1b for the Pirates, but Rowdy it is. As a minor league depth addition, David Dahl would be a good signing.
Who isn’t looking for a catcher?
dougdeb
The Royals are deep at catcher. They have 3 on the mlb roster counting MJ Melendez who’s playing outfield now and 2 minor league ones who are mlb ready.
How does Rortvedt not fit the Yankees opening day roster? Unless they plan on handing the reigns to Austin Wells pushing Trevino to a backup roll Rortvedt would be Trevino’s backup
Barring something unforeseen, that appears to be the Yankee plan. Trevino & Wells as the catching tandem going into the season. Wells showed more in his limited time in the bigs than Rortvert has and he has proven to be more reliable health wise.
Ben will likely be traded or exposed to waivers prior to the start of the season. Yanks have 5 catchers in their 40 man roster, which is too many.
They don’t need a catcher. Need to see if Davis can play the position, if not, tough to find a better backup than Delay even if his numbers regress. Maybe offer Stallings a minor league deal because he knows the coaching staff.
They need a starting pitcher who is more than a low upside innings eater, someone like Luzardo, Cabrera, Skubal (off limits?). I wouldn’t touch Bieber with a ten foot pole with his insane velo and strikeout drop. Cease maybe but not willing to give multiple top prospects. They can get a decent enough guy without making an Archer deal again. Plenty other teams do it.
they may not need a catcher but Cherington is looking for one and this isn’t the only publication stating as much
Joey Bart to the Bucs makes some sense, especially factoring in that he can play 1B at times too.
Adding guys like Thor and Manaea and hoping for (and receiving) a rebound may give them a chance to crack .500.
Would love see Cherrington make a move for a #2 SP. As day dream mock trades have surfaced for SP Edward Cabrera since Oct, add SP Ryan Weathers, C Will Banfield to it and trade away SS Liover Peguero, SP J.T. Brubaker, C Axiel Plaz would set the stage for 2023.