The Giants announced that they have signed a four-year, $44MM contract with free agent right-hander Jordan Hicks. The righty will get a one-time signing bonus of $2MM, a $6MM salary in 2024, followed by a $12MM salary in the three subsequent years. Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported the deal and added that the Giants plan to utilize Hicks as a starter rather than a reliever. Hicks, who is represented by the Ballengee Group, can also earn an additional $2MM of annual incentives based on innings pitched, reports Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle. Those incentives begin kicking in at the 100-inning mark, she adds.
A move back to the rotation is surprising, but it won’t be an entirely unfamiliar role for the flamethrowing 27-year-old. Hicks worked as a starter in the minors before debuting in the Cardinals’ bullpen during the 2018 season, and St. Louis briefly experimented with a move back to the rotation early in the 2022 campaign. That didn’t pan out — he yielded 16 runs in 24 2/3 innings before moving back to a relief role — but the Giants will try their hand at maximizing Hicks’ explosive arsenal out of their own rotation. The Giants have indeed shown a knack for helping pitchers break out — Kevin Gausman chief among them — and Hicks clearly has the type of raw stuff to intrigue clubs in a larger role.
Few pitchers can rival Hicks in terms of sheer velocity. He’s averaged 100.8 mph on his four-seamer and 100.2 mph on his two-seamer to this point in his career and has topped out at borderline comical 105 mph. The former third-round pick couples that blistering velocity with a slider that sits at 86.5 mph, and he’s thrown very occasional “changeups” in the past (never higher than at a 4% clip) — sitting 91.8 mph on that pitch overall.
Given the uncommonly young age at which he reached the open market and the overpowering nature of his raw arsenal, Hicks has long felt like a pitcher who’d command substantial interest despite a more modest track record. MLBTR ranked him 21st on our Top 50 Free Agent list, predicting a four-year, $40MM contract from a club believing it could unlock another gear in the righty.
As one might expect for a pitcher with this type of superhuman velocity, durability has been an issue. Hicks has never pitched more than 105 innings between the big leagues and minors combined in any season of his career. He underwent Tommy John surgery in 2019, had a 60-day IL stint due to inflammation in that same elbow in 2021, and missed more than a month of the 2022 season due to a flexor strain. Hicks returned from that injury in early July and was placed back on the injured list in mid-September due to arm fatigue.
Of course, when he’s healthy and at his best, Hicks can be flat-out overpowering. He sports a career 3.85 ERA, but that’s skewed by 10 ugly innings prior to his UCL tear in 2019 and by his rough work as a starter in 2022. In 2023, Hicks turned in a 3.29 ERA with a 28.4% strikeout rate, 11.2% walk rate and a 58.3% ground-ball rate in 65 1/3 innings between the Cardinals and the Blue Jays, who acquired him from St. Louis at the trade deadline in exchange for minor league pitchers Adam Kloffenstein and Sem Robberse. That ground-ball rate is nothing new; Hicks boasts a sensational 60.4% grounder rate in his career. Unfortunately, last year’s command troubles aren’t new either. He’s issued a free pass to an unsightly 12.8% of his opponents in the Majors.
Given last year’s innings count — and totals of 66 1/3 and 13 frames in the two preceding seasons — it’s difficult to imagine Hicks simply stepping into a rotation and firing off 30-plus starts, even if he’s able to remain healthy. The Giants figure to place him on some kind of innings limit in 2024, whether that means capping him at five innings per start, using him to piggyback with another starter, or simply giving him some occasional spells in the bullpen to keep his arm fresh.
An ideal setting might see Hicks move to the bullpen late in the season right as recent trade acquisition Robbie Ray returns from Tommy John surgery, though a lot needs to go right before that’s a legitimate consideration. If Hicks is able to both remain healthy and pitch effectively as a starter this coming season, the team could give him a larger workload come 2025. At that point, plugging Hicks and Ray into the rotation behind ace Logan Webb could give San Francisco a formidable trio. That’s a major “if,” but the upside is intriguing.
For the time being, Hicks will add another question mark to a rotation that’s teeming with uncertainty behind Webb, a 2023 Cy Young Award finalist. Webb led the Majors with 216 innings pitched last year, but Alex Cobb and Sean Manaea were the only other Giants pitchers to reach even 100 innings. Manaea has since signed with the Mets in free agency, and Cobb will open the 2024 season on the injured list while he recovers from hip surgery.
Hicks joins veteran swingman Ross Stripling, top prospect Kyle Harrison and young righties Keaton Winn and Tristan Beck as candidates to fill out the rotation behind Webb. Twenty-five-year-old righty Kai-Wei Teng, who walked nearly 14% of his opponents in Triple-A last year, is the only other starting pitcher on the 40-man roster. Top prospect Carson Whisenhunt is surely viewed as a potential rotation mainstay by Giants brass, but he’s pitched just 19 2/3 innings above A-ball and in all likelihood won’t be an option until the 2025 campaign.
It seems fair to envision the Giants making further additions to their rotation, given all that instability, although with both Cobb and Ray on the mend, there will be veteran reinforcements filtering in as the season wears on. Still, the Giants entered the offseason with question marks on the pitching staff and throughout the lineup, and many of those needs remain unaddressed. Adding a more established arm — be it a mid-tier arm in the Mike Clevinger/Michael Lorenzen/Hyun Jin Ryu vein or a top-tier starter like Blake Snell or Jordan Montgomery — still seems both prudent and well within the Giants’ budgetary capacity.
As it stands, the Giants’ payroll currently projects to about $167MM, per Roster Resource, while their luxury-tax ledger sits nearly $30MM shy of the $237MM first-tier threshold. San Francisco opened the 2023 season with a $188MM payroll and has previously put forth a $200MM roster in the past, so there ought to be considerable room for further augmentation on the free agent and/or trade markets.
FanOfTheUmpires
Arguably the most underrated stadium in all of sports.
Cardsfan21
Inarguably the most annoying commenter on these threads
FanOfTheUmpires
Plaschke, Rome, Rosenthal, Verducci, Axisa, etc.
Cardsfan21
Trolls gonna troll.
FanOfTheUmpires
Law, Stark, Blum, etc.
Unclemike1525
Too rich for my blood. They better hope he has better health. He’ll be back in the pen by the end of ST.
steven st croix
Farhan will be fired mid season
good vibes only
touch grass bruh
Nothingman94
One can only hope
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
FanofUmpires reminds me of the Christopher Guest character in the movie “Best In Show” who spends a whole scene just “naming nuts”: “Peanut, Hazelnut, Cashew Nut, Macadamia Nut, Pine Nut, Pistachio Nut, Red Pistacio Nut…” He would drive his mother crazy when he was a kid because he wouldn’t stop naming nuts.
RShore05
@marlinsfanbase
That literally made me laugh out loud while I was dropping a duece.
Jean Matrac
steven st croix, Don’t hold your breath.
Ska0_Kmbappe1
The giants are like the Padres,
MarlinsFanBase
@RShore05
I’m guessing you laughed because you know what I said is true about Mike Axisa’s writing on the Yankees versus how he writes about every other team.
My favorite is when he talks about Judge, especially the period of time when he’d constantly talk about Judge’s “massive, broad” shoulders. Classic, but disturbing stuff by Axisa.
Dear gosh, if the Yankees win a championship before Axisa’s writing career comes to an end, I imagine he’ll be shoving through to get to the locker room first so he can be there to get every bit of all the players squirting that champagne rain all over so he can feel it splattering all over his face.
FanOfTheUmpires
Axisa will be in the Hall of Fame. (You don’t have to be a player to be in the hall of fame)
MarlinsFanBase
Of course he will. He’s done everything he’s needed to the same way may actresses without acting talent did what they had to do to get big roles – of course the difference is those untalented actresses did it literally where Axisa has done it metaphorically for the Yankees. Or did he? One never knows.
richardc
Plaschke is the old “get off my lawn” guy, and is just a blowhard.
He has some weird vendetta against the Braves, and just makes himself look more and more ignorant everytime he opens his knobgobbler. Lol
JCL10
I’ll name a nut: FanOfTheUmpires
Wrian Washman
@Cardsfan I don’t know filihok and fever pitch are pretty up there.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Filihok is one of the most condescending posters ever , and thinks he knows more about baseball than the rest of us put together. He either sincerely thinks that, or it’s just his little permformative game he plays to get a rise of people, which then would make him the most insincere poster on this board. (He used to go by Samuel, who believe it or not was even more insufferable & socially retrograde than even his filihok character.)
BaseballisLife
103 comments are hidden because you muted the comment authors
You named a few.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Why do you think Samuel and filihok are the same person? I recall Samuel was much more long-winded. Other than that, I have no idea.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Manny you’re right filihok is a lot more concise than Samuel ever was…but the condescending attitude is just as preposterous as the long form version. There was a time when both names were being used at the same time, and I noted the shared language, and the way they both MUTED people (in a flash) who might someday contradict them, show them up, or call them on their ridiculous schtick. If they aren’t the same dude, then filihok must have picked up many of Samuel’s quirks as his understudy or they are both similarly placed on the exact same spot on the (irritation) spectrum.
LordD99
Seems likely they’re the same person.
YourDreamGM
As the person who actually does know more than all the rest of you combined, I obviously know filihok other user name. Not Samuel. Will gladly tell you who it is but if you guess the next 1 or 2 most annoying members you will have your answer
I don’t really get annoyed. Don’t care for time wasters though like trolls, political talkers, deferrals. The people that mute me I find to be the dumbest members. Samuel Fever for sure. I add De grom Kershaw to that list. Filihok and other name never muted me. They are so crazy I almost find them entertaining
filihok
ISoaB
“and thinks he knows more about baseball than the rest of us put together.”
Speaking of knowing more than you do
“([filihok] used to go by Samuel, who believe it or not was even more insufferable & socially retrograde than even his filihok character.)”
User name checks out
I don’t think I know more about baseball than everyone on this board put together. Not even sure what that means.
I do think I know more more about certain aspects of baseball than most commenters here. I’m hardly alone on that, I don’t think
And others certainly know more about certain aspects than I do.
One thing I think I know more about than most posters here is what I don’t know. A lot of ignorant blowhards here making proclamations about things that they couldn’t possibly know.
pileofsandwich
Just hit that little mute button.
LordD99
Sadly, the mute button still doesn’t “stick” on the app.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Overpay and injury risk. Jordan Hicks is a marvel to watch, he throws the ball faster than almost everyone. But at the MLB level, speed alone does not make you a good starter (or even reliever) and he has an injury track-record. I can’t blame the Giants for a bold move in a division where they are probably only the fourth best team. And they have the best track record of recent World Series victories. But I still have to conclude that this won’t end pretty.
Bryzzo2016
Yeah, feels like a desperate overpay by a team that kept missing on their other targets.
seth3120
I like this deal for the Giants for sure. He was coming into his own the second half of last season maybe he can do that across more innings as a starter but at worst you sign a late inning reliever(closer for that matter) for 11m a year in his prime years. My concerns are strictly health related
seth3120
If he’s successful as a starter and remains relatively healthy this is a steal
stymeedone
Yeah. $1MM more than predicted. A massive overpay.
unpaidobserver
It can’t be that much of an overpay in a world of $13M for Lance Lynn.
Rishi
Since when is a prediction on MLBTR the go to as to whether it’s an overpay? They seem to be wrong by a lot much of the time. It’s the kind of deal this team should be making tho. They have the money. It has upside. He’s very young. Idk about him as a starter. Seems risky enough as is. When I saw him vs Atlanta this season he was the nastiest pitcher I saw all season probably. Giants are good with pitchers too
MLB Top 100 Commenter
It is an overpay, but I agree that the Lance Lynn signing might be the worst by any time in this off-season
JCL10
Arguably the worst stadium in all of sports.
FanOfTheUmpires
Slusser, Jaff, Kahrl, etc.
JCL10
What in the world does naming random sports writers do for your argument? You are quickly making a case for yourself as the worst commentor in MLBTR history
FanOfTheUmpires
More like the best. You can ask anybody. Adams, Franco, Deeds, etc.
Didlz
@JCL10
Passen, Goold, Snyder, Etc.
SoCalHardBall
In the dumpiest city in the country
FanOfTheUmpires
Right. Verducci, Blum, Axisa, Slusser, Jaffe, Rosenthal, Kahrl, etc.
Candlestoked
@SoCal Travel much? SF is gorgeous.
Truthteller#1
Orange County in SoCal the best place to live in California by a long shot.
Candlestoked
@Truth sure you’re right.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I will raise you Malibu and Yosemite, LOL
Still in talks
You obviously haven’t been to Detroit.
giantsphan12
@Socal, so you get to downtown LA much?
drasco036
Not even in the top 50 per enjoy travels ranking of 59 most visited cities.
Jean Matrac
drasco036, According to Conde Nast, SF ranks 5th most visited in the US.
cntraveler.com/story/most-visited-american-cities
drasco036
You know what’s cool? Reading fundamentals and comprehension… it’s in big bold letters for you “IN THE WORLD”
I know a lot of Americans get confused and don’t know what “the world” is but pull up a globe, all those spots that are not blue, that’s different countries and those countries help make up “the world”
You’re welcome, I was a marine so I’m used to dumbing it down for people. Probably the most used skill I learned. I’m pretty happy I didn’t have to break a crayon… at least not yet
Jean Matrac
I saw, “in the world” (no reason to shout). Comparing the most visited cities in the world to American or MLB cities when that is the context, is so illogical that I ignored it. You only cited world cities because the ranking for SF works out lower that way. But you’re so much smarter than everyone else that nobody is going to notice that, right?
thegiantshark
brilliantmaps.com/top-100-tourist-destinations/
THE WORLD
Moonlight Graham
Um, Enjoytravel.com has it as the 10th most visited city in North America. It’s sixth among US cities, according to this list. Most lists rank it fifth.
Moonlight Graham
It’s not as easy for the global population centers to reach San Francisco as it is to reach, say, European or Asian countries. So, that’s why it’s not push for the spot.
That said, in a world of 8 billion people, being just outside the top 50 most visited places isn’t bad. And being a top-5 in the largest economy of the world—also not bad.
O'sSayCanYouSee
Dowey, Suehim, & Howe LLP.
(Click & Clack reference)
FanOfTheUmpires
Dirks, MacDonald, etc.
RunDMC
Man, the mute button not working?
good vibes only
Thats what Im wondering. I know I muted this turd lol
HalosHeavenJJ
I love that ballpark, especially for day games. Sitting up on the second deck gives a great view of the Bay between innings.
deGrom/Langford Texas Ranger
Wow! And they say Hader is asking for a lot lol! Hader is definitely worth > 2x as much. 29 other teams likely viewed him as a reliever.
just_thinkin
Whoa! Good for SF.
Liberalsteve
Where are the conservative haters on the city now?
prov356
Huh?
Simm
Overpay
Buzzz Killington
Deficating on a toilet not on the street.
Buzzz Killington
*Defecating *pooping *#2
oldgfan
Clarification of crap ?
JoeBoe
If by toilet you mean the walls of the USA capitol building
Cardsfan21
I mean, they hired him to pitch, not clean the human feces off the sidewalks down town or help fight crime. Weird take or weak joke.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I get why he made that comment. A couple weeks ago everyone was claiming that free agents were turning turn equal money from SF to go to other teams. My take was that with strong teams from the Dodgers, Padres and Diamondbacks, position players would be less likely to want to join the Giants, which is also a pitchers’ park to some extent. And millionaire baseball players are likely to live in the beautiful suburbs just outside of the city, so the fact that a few square blocks of the city have issues is unlikely to be the decisive factor for them. Even taxes are not a big deal when you make that kind of money, you go for whatever location is fun for you and your family and what team gives you the chance to succeed and prosper, and be in the mix for a pennant/flag/ring.
prov356
I agree Manny. But I think that everyone likes to enjoy the city even when they live near it. But in SF, that’s hard to do, especially with kids. From my own family, my mom lives in Geneva and loves downtown Chicago but she hasn’t been in years because of the crime issues.
But to your point, if I’m a baseball player, that will be low on my decision making priorities. First would be how well positioned the team is to win.
bag o ballz
it isn’t that it is a few square blocks – which it is but there has been for decades a dislike by right wing information sources of SF that has pushed a negative narrative – in the 80s/90s there was the rumor that SF had rampant satanism followed by the fear of being raped by homosexuals and now it is poop on the street and violence – it isn’t the truth of the city it is the perceived notion. It doesn’t help that often players when visiting the city are too scared to leave their hotel rooms when they visit due to all of the swirling stories even though they are all false. Affeldt talked about it in a long piece he wrote in the 2010s and how players would tell each other these things and often they would never venture into the city when they were in town due to fear. He also debunks all of the crap that they are fed.
Not a clever name
Manny, I’m usually on the other side of this argument working close to the city and living a little bit further myself, but I have to say you make a sensible point. The perspective of 3 really good teams to compete with to win a division does likely play a role in the Giants ability to sign marquee talent.
tstats
It stems from posey admitting players have told him they think the city is a dump
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Every big city has nice areas and scary areas.
I am just not buying that players go to Detroit, Cleveland, New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Los Angeles and Atlanta, and say evenything is clean and nice here, but San Francisco is scary. Everyone of those other cities, like SF, has some really nice areas and some bad areas as well.
Walk around the Marina district where they are ten million dollar homes and it is beautiful, or Presidio Heights, Seacliff, Pacific Heights, Go to Sausalito, Marin County, Atherton, Menlo Park. Ball players can afford a $5 to $10 million dollar home. Now if you make under $200K a year, I can see why you would not want to live in San Francisco. But we are talking about what influences high priced free agents, not ordinary working folks – this conversation is about baseball not politics.
bag o ballz
you can’t separate the 2 though. Free agents eg seiya suzuki as a recent example have completely written the team off due to word of mouth and negative news reports. As a free agent who had literally never been to the city he unequivocally said that he wouldn’t even entertain an offer because the city is too dangerous. There are a lot of right leaning american players as well that get their information from right wing media about the city and it influences their decisions – not to even mention what agents may be telling them. the fact of the matter is yes, all of your examples are actually more dangerous cities than SF but if you turn on right wing media it is all railing against SF for political reasons and it does eek into the sport.
GoGiantsGo
Never been to Memphis, New Orleans, South Central LA..( BY INGLEWOOD AND A PRETTY SHADY PLACE TO BE ALONE AT NIGHT)
So don’t go on trying to tear San Francisco
down.
I’ve lived a piece North of the City for over 50 years. I’ve never had any issues at any hour of the day, or night.
And I’m already planning on the 4th, and Memorial weekend if availble.
Pete'sView
And San Francisco suburbs are gorgeous! Most parts of the city ain’t bad either.
Pete'sView
Studies on violence show LA and Seattle—for instance—far more violent than SF.
JoeBoe
Chicago isn’t even in the top 20 cities for violent crime, which is dominated by cities in red states.
JoeBoe
And none of those three are anywhere near the top of the list of cities for violent crime.
The list of cities by violent crime is dominated by cities in red states. St. Louis is often at the top.
prov356
joeboe – “The list of cities by violent crime is dominated by cities in red states.”
That’s a very deceptive statement but a typical liberal talking point.
Here are the facts: While some of the states that house violent and lawless cities tend to vote conservatively at the state level, the violent and lawless cities within them are run by liberal local governments. It has nothing to do with the states’ politics. For example, Memphis is a crap hole of crime and violence and is situated in Tennessee, which tends to vote conservatively at the state level. Memphis city government is extremely liberal.
St. Louis, the city you mentioned being in a red state, has Tishaura Jones as their City Mayor, a self proclaimed liberal progressive. Black Lives Matter championed her campaign stating that if she wins the mayoral race, BLM will have an ally in City Hall. She has moved for making St. Louis a sanctuary city. She is for making prostitution legal and supports the “defund the police” movement…and so on…you get the point. All of those facts about Jones are easily researchable so I’m surprised you missed it.
I can’t think of a single medium to large city that is run by a conservative local government that has issues with violent crime and lawlessness.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
My only advice is to stay away from the 24-Hour Golden Corral in Paducah, Kentucky. (especially after midnight on Fri & Sat).(Just take my word for it.)
JoeBoe
4 of the top 5 cities with the most violent crime are in red states, and 7 of the top 10.
It’s reality, which is always the opposite of what fox propaganda network tells it’s audience.
disadvantage
@iggy
Now I want nothing more than to check out that Golden Corral, so thank you for that.
its_happening
JoeBoe be specific. Crime, or crime per capita. Big difference.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Not meant to prove any points, but found this data interesting nonetheless:
TOTAL HOMICIDES 2023:
Chicago 617
Houston 339
St.Louis 158
Dallas 246
Los Angeles 327
(LA traffic deaths 330)
Atlanta 135
Miami 31
San Francisco 53
Memphis 398
Seattle 70
NYC 386
Boston 37
Melchez17
There are many reasons to hate san fran… Earthquakes, high taxes, crime, homeless, dirty city, people are crazy, too many hills, city is built on a landfill, weather, free crack pipes… Sorry, not interested. There’s a reason people that are able are moving away.
JoeBrady
MannyBeingMVP19 hours ago
Every big city has nice areas and scary areas.
====================
Spot-on correct. People that play in The Bronx don’t live in The Bronx (though they could). YS is a 10-minute car service to $10M high-rise apartments, and 25 minutes to $5M estates.
BlueSkies_LA
For the maybe two or three here who might be interested, anti-urban biases in the U.S. aren’t anything new, and in fact it go all the way back to the Founders. A classic book was published on this subject in 1962, “The Intellectual Versus the City.” Of course today’s anti-city talk has nothing to do with intellectuals and everything to do with the destructive ideologies that are taking over everything we talk about. Even our beloved game of baseball isn’t immune. Everything has to feed the nastiness vortex. Baseball used to be a refuge. No longer. This is so very deeply saddening.
SJG
You’d be amazed what California deems “non-violent”. I’m sure it does wonders for stats like that.
Oldhalo
I commented about how bad Oakland was and a commenter pushed back that I was wrong. This revolved around Oakland moving to Las Vegas. I literally got robbed at 1030 in the morning at a Chevron gas station outside of the Oakland airport on Thursday. A security guard was in front of the store and 2 police cars parked less than 100 yards away. They did nothing but did advise me to go to a different airport if possible in the future. They said that the crime is more than they can keep up with. The robber grabbed my stuff and got into an SUV. Happened in less than 5 seconds and it was clear that it wasnt the first time. Luckily, I had my wallet. When I went through the security check the agent asked me how my day was… I told him that it was going terrible. He asked if I got robbed… I said yes. Then he said, at the Chevron? And I said yes. He said that its been going on for a couple of months and told me that I was lucky. Some people lost everything and couldn’t board the plane. As far as San Francisco is concerned, I completed a project in down town about 9 months ago and have had to send crews out there 4 times to replace the doors to to damaged caused by thieves pushing their way in to steal merchandise. Yes, their are some good parts but what is happening up there is unprecedented and isn’t being published enough to the public. I wouldn’t move there and it is exactly the reason why I moved myself and family out of California 2 years ago. This is an on going issue that isn’t being addressed. I can completely understand why the Giants can’t sign anyone. Many parts of NorCal have become unsafe.
prov356
Oldhalo – That’s a crazy story but unfortunately not unique for the Bay Area and other poorly run cities. They have to keep it quiet and use the “nothing to see here” tactic because if they admit there’s a problem, they have to admit they caused the problem. The best way to reduce your crime rate is to decriminalize crime. Then they boast about how crime has gone down when people like you are victimized every day.
BaseballisLife
Once you tried to call facts a political talking point everything else you said became suspect.
BaseballisLife
What he is talking about is per capita. Chicago is near the top in total but with 9 million population they are not in top 30 in per capita.
BaseballisLife
Joe, Exactly. Yankees #1 player, Gerrit Cole lives in Connecticut just 40 minutes away. An hour on the train.
Pete'sView
Yeah, don’t let the facts blind you or the people that live and visit there. Best to stay locked in your “safe” place.
Pete'sView
Oldhalo — So sorry but you chose THE WORST SPOT in all Oakland. That Chevron was my go-to spot for gas before taking back my rental car.
That all changed about 2-3 years ago. It’s known to locals as a disaster area. I don’t know how it continues but I guess that cop summed it up for you. Sorry that happened to you.
Pete'sView
prov356 — BS. That’s one spot (see my comments above). You’re just pushing the old narrative.
its_happening
Reality is Oakland is losing their team. Spin it any way you want. Whatever narrow narrative you want to carry is the wrong one.
richardc
Staying away from every 24 hour restaraunt is a good idea these days…
Unless you work nightshift, predominantly it is just trouble, drunks, and users are out at that time of the night…
Like my Dad always told me growing up, unless you’re getting laid or fishing nothing good happens after midnight.
bag o ballz
You do realize that they’re were 2 major earthquakes in the last 100 years in SF – vs how many natural disasters in other major cities- also the city is not built in landfill, a portion of the waterfront in downtown is which is a tiny portion of the city
JCL10
Still can’t seem to grasp that liberal cities, run by liberal people, are the problem, not that they are in red states…
JCL10
Know what else helps make crime go “down”. Eliminating the police force. San Fran and other liberal cities completely destroy the police budget, and then expects that crime will just magically disappear or go down.
BlueSkies_LA
Blah, blah, blah, blah…. I’ve seen more coherent arguments made with refrigerator magnets.
bag o ballz
Dan Francisco actually increased the police budget but you know who reduced funding to California police, the feds under Trump.
Cardsfan21
I’m from STL and couldn’t agree more. No one likes being downtown anymore at all.
Cardsfan21
You do realize that those cities are islands in a red state and are absolutely DOMINATED by “blue” politics right? Every single one of them is Dem run.
So, oddly enough, using your own logic, red areas are significantly less violent.
Cardsfan21
100% agree. One of the best things about being truly independent is the ability to see nonsense on either side. Joe’s post is sheer liberal nonsense.
(The other side does it all the time as well)
Cardsfan21
And trust me, St Louis is bluer than the Caribbean waters my friend.
Cardsfan21
Yeah but make this per capita and I bet we kick Chicagos ass too
User 401527550
You argue with your refrigerator magnets? Makes a lot of sense now.
Pete'sView
I’d check those gun deaths per capita.
Highwaymenace
You either don’t live anywhere near the Bay Area, or you are so wealthy that your opinion doesn’t matter. Real people who have to deal with the liberal policies on a daily basis know the truth. San Francisco is a more dangerous city than Detroit. Enough said.
DanUgglasRing
St. Louis is the violent crime capital of the nation and they seem to be able to sign people. Baltimore and Chicago are signing people hell even LA and NY don’t have an issue signing guys yet they all have the same big city problems. It’s almost as if this is hysterical horse dung blown out of proportion by the 55 and over crowd that watches network news all day.
Fred Lingenfelser
Most people comment based on the news or based on their financial situation. Every city has its bad areas, and some cities have more bad areas than others. But for an athlete making millions, they only see the nice ballparks and the fancy suburbs of those cities. They don’t live amongst the crime. California has some beautiful areas within miles of the poopy SF streets. If anything deters baseball players, it’s the taxes, so perhaps those places need to offer more $$ or an extra year or two for some athletes. 4 years for a flame throwing reliever is job security. Most relievers don’t get long-term deals.
Not a clever name
With as much as many of these athletes Donate to charity I don’t know that taxes are even that much of an issue with the right cpa. For me living in California and paying 13% it’s pretty burdensome, but if I made FU money and could donate FU type money to my favorite causes I don’t know it would be the same issue. I still watch network news and hate gov Newsolinni, but you have a point that my problems are not the same as those playing pro ball making 8 figures.
Cardsfan21
Are we back up to #1 again? Bout time we won something!
Hurricane Sandy
Good good, must we have this conversation after every signing? All of these teams play in or near crappy urban areas and also near nice suburbs or more uppety metropolitan areas if they prefer to live in a city. “Liberal policies” matter to ordinary people, which rich baseball players are not. Some people prefer big cities, some prefer rural or suburban areas… some want to be in warm weather.. some don’t care (baseball is mostly a spring/summer game, so I’m not sure why people even cite this as if it matters much)… you say tomato, I say tom-o-to. Blah blah blah.. enough already! Everyone acts like these athletes all were all raised on a farm in Montana. They’re only playing a few years anyway.
prov356
Sandy – I believe the sensitivity with SF specifically is based on the fact that it used to be such a beautiful and safe city. It’s political leaders have allowed it to be destroyed through liberal policies and woke ideologies. That’s why SF is usually the butt of so many jokes, more so than Detroit, Cleveland, etc., where you expect such an environment.
THEY LIVE!!!
Mark Twain once asserted “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”
Snopes says it’s falsely attributed to Mark Twain but Snopes leans left so who really knows??
Hurricane Sandy
Well, I assume you know better than I do. I was in San Francisco as a young man 24 years ago, and I remember I actually loved the city and how it was surrounded by water and serene nature.
I’ve heard about its demise and everything, but I’ve lived in New York most of my life and I’ve seen it’s gentrification and decline and its ebbs and flows through the years, but for most people, it really doesn’t change much. It’s all just sensationalized nonsense on TV. My family and I went to the city a month ago around Christmas time near Rockefeller Center and I didn’t see even one homeless person or random collection of migrants, yet my mother-in-law was scared for our lives lol.
Not that there’s not anything to it, I have become more conservative as I’ve gotten older, and I do see it’s not quite as safe as it was 10 years ago, but if you like the city and you want to stay here you’re probably not leaving based on this or that temporary crisis. Most of the people commenting on how crappy San Francisco is have probably never been there, and I doubt that athletes prioritize that over whether the team is ready to win or not.
prov356
Completely agree, Sandy.
disadvantage
@prov (and all you other troglodytes using recycled conservative starter kit talking points that are getting tired)
Stop playing dumb, or listening to people playing dumb.
SF is a gem of a city, that is just as popular a tourist destination as ever, with a massive population of transplants and a phenomenal place to spend any amount of time (it has natural beauty, rich history, wonderful people, and enough dining, sightseeing, and entertainment to keep you busy for the rest of your life).
SF was also hit hard by the pandemic and has its fair share of problems, but you know what? So has every single other big city. SF is arguably the most liberal city in the country, and as such has been used as a proxy for national media (especially Fox News) for all liberal cities. And then it trickles down to uninformed people like you. Stop pretending like all the fear that you have been told to have about SF isn’t something you would be wary of in any other big city.
prov356
disadvantage:
“…all you other troglodytes using recycled conservative starter kit talking points that are getting tired”
Yet you and seamaholic use the standard “Fox News” liberal talking point mantra in an attempt to insult conservatives. As I told him in another comment, most conservatives ditched Fox News years ago, just FYI.
“SF was also hit hard by the pandemic…”
Cities that were “hit hard” by the pandemic did so by choice because of liberal leaders creating fear and chaos. In contrast, my County Mayor came out during the pandemic and told his constituents that he bothered to read the US Constitution and nowhere in it gave him the authority to mandate lock downs, masks, and all of the other unnecessary crap that liberal leaders and media lied about. And then he had the audacity to talk about some old fashioned concept known as personal responsibility. How crazy. Oh, he’s a US Congressman now because of his leadership.
“…uninformed people like you.”
Since you don’t know me or what my career has been for three decades, I will just acknowledge that you embody your screen name – you’re at a disadvantage.
Liberalsteve
Agreed. We liberals get the right facts from our media.
disadvantage
@prov
What does your career have anything to do with me being able to read your posts? You could have a PhD for all I care, but that doesn’t make you any less informed.
I also find it interesting you’re talking up your county and mayor, but not providing names. Why is that? Also, what major city does it contain? Because I’m certain you wouldn’t waste my time comparing a podunk county to a major city. Right??
It’s true I said Fox News was one of the perpetuators of SF misinformation, but never accused you of watching Fox News. I can say this with confidence because the quote you pulled from me doesn’t say anything about you watching Fox News, so you are fighting a straw man.
Then again, that’s the kind of dishonesty I can expect from someone arguing from feelings like you, when you use talking points like “liberal leaders creating fear and chaos” and not that the pandemic really screwed up supply chains and affected the economy across the board. Maybe provide me with some facts and numbers on how much SF is failing, and not fear mongering.
It’s also funny you chose the words liberal leaders “creating fear and chaos”, when you consume media that does exactly that about SF.
Actually, on second thought, please keep consuming that media. It will mean that people like you will not get in our way while we enjoy our city.
THEY LIVE!!!
@Prov356
Excellent post. Two Bakersfield doctors came out early to inform the public that lock-downs were harming people and there was no upside to the authoritarian and non-scientific approach being crammed down our throats. They were banned on Youtube and threatened with loss of their licenses for merely speaking the truth and common sense.
prov356
They Live – Thanks. Truth gets in the way of a good agenda.
disadvantage
@prov
When, exactly did “liberal policies and woke ideologies” “destroy” San Francisco (a city that has been majority liberal in our lifetimes), Mr. “Truth gets in the way of a good agenda”?
Jean Matrac
THEY LIVE!!!, Wow, should I adopt your POV because all of two Bakersfield doctors said that. So how many doctors are there in Bakersfield? If the answer is three or four then I’d be impressed. But I tend to think that number is somewhat greater.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Prov
That is on the then-President. He should have opposed forced vaccinations and masks- except at hospitals and nursing homes- but urged everyone as decent and Patriotic Americans to follow his lead and get vaccinated and wear masks as a choice. Urged everyone to do it to protect elderly Veterans, grandmas and the infirm especially at the start when ICUs were overloaded. If the president had been a leader, mandates would have been unneeded. We did not need to shut everything down, maybe just bars and restaurants for a couple weeks.
its_happening
City hit hard by pandemic. Wow. Shocking!
JCL10
@disadvantage, what have liberal policies ever done for the common man other than drive gas and food prices through the roof and tax the hell out of you?
Pete'sView
JCL10 — How old are you and what is your education?
Seamaholic
Nope. You watch too much Fox News. Crime is way down in the Bay Area. It’s an amazing place. Travel there frequently.
prov356
seamaholic – where does your frequent “Fox News” comment come from? You do realize that most conservatives ditched Fox News years ago, right?
User 401527550
Crimes way down because nobody gets arrested or prosecuted for anything but you can come back with your naive Fox News comment.
its_happening
Crime is down because either nobody is being arrested or charged, and/or people are leaving the city, and/or people aren’t leaving their home as often as they did before. The fact that SF needed an App in the first place to find poop on the streets is a huge red flag.
JoeBoe
Spoken like someone who has never looked at a list of cities by violent crime rate.
JCL10
Let me guess, all of them are liberal cities run by liberals?
Melchez17
Detroit has dropped in crime rate because fewer people live there and there’s less to steal. I lived in Detroit… There are many empty homes.
SupremeBacon
For what it’s worth, I’ve lived in the Bay Area my whole life. Showed my friend who grew up in Detroit, and lives here now, your comment and he started coughing he laughed so hard. Huge L
Pete'sView
Most dangerous cities: roughmaps.com/destinations/the-most-dangerous-u-s-…
teddyj
SF still stinks and so do the Giants, had to over pay/promise to get him to hop over the turds
Balk
Teddyyj….every club has to overpay, have you been paying attention lately?
JCL10
Yeah san fran sucks. When the prize of the offseason is jordan hicks thats not great. That they lost out on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others signals that no players want to play in that dump of a city.
Balk
Try again kid…Los Angeles is no better of a citi then the Bay. Your comments show you’ve never been to San Francisco. Beautiful city, problems with crime and homelessness is really a small part of the Bay. Come up with a different perspective of why a player won’t sign there. It isn’t because of the city
its_happening
San Fran isn’t serious about winning and players aren’t serious about signing there.
Pick one or the other, Balk. It’s either your city is a mess or your team is.
Balk
You should listen to what Yamamoto said, if it wasn’t for the Dodgers pursuit, he would’ve went to San Francisco. Name one player that said they wouldn’t sign with the Giants because of the cities problems. You can’t because it never happened. You can have an argument about weather the team is a mess, but it isn’t because of the city. By the way…I don’t live there. Grew up in California, moved after 40 years. Seen and worked in the Bay for years. I think you’re the one that should pick a different narrative on this topic
JCL10
Never said that LA isn’t a dump. It is. Only difference is that there is a team in LA that actually wins, compared to the mediocre giants.
JCL10
@ Balk Seiya suzuki. Pretty good player.
Pete'sView
So one player? After both Ohtani and Yamamoto both publicly said San Francisco was the second on their list, but LA had the better chance of winning.
its_happening
San Fran second on the list can be found in the fiction section.
disadvantage
@jcl
Yes, because LA is some crime free utopia where the homeless simply don’t defecate, and is a beacon of cleanliness. Right?
BlueSkies_LA
Oh goodie, the culture war comes to baseball. I’m sure that will do wonders in improving it.
dubtastic
off season is not even over yet..don’t jump to conclusions so soon..you’re making yourself sound dumb..
User 401527550
If you constantly have to defend how crappy your city is then you’ve already lost.
pohle
seems like a disaster waiting to happen, good for hicks on getting an opportunity to start though
showmebb
Over/Under at 4.5 walks per nine?
omahamadness
easy, over
cah011381
Which is higher, walks per nine or innings per start?
User 401527550
Walks per nine. He will be in the bullpen again by May.
5TUNT1N
Is it still less than Snell bb/9. This guys gonna be opener doesn’t need to go deep in games, they’ll use him kinda like brebbia last year. Hicks is a cheaper version of snell, much like Lee is the cheaper version of bellinger.
Buzzz Killington
Could become a top 5 reliever in the game. The stuff is there. Not bad if there are no opt outs. Currently doesn’t say.
Buzzz Killington
Starter? That’s stupid! Like why?
sarunas
Hello? Hicks obviously told them he wanted to start otherwise he wouldn’t have agreed to a deal. And Giants obviously agreed with the idea. Relievers get more stressful wear on their arms. So maybe Hicks felt that his arm responded better to him starting. His first 2 pro seasons he had excellent numbers as a starter.
cah011381
He only made 8 starts in 2022 with St. Louis and he was awful which is why he was back in the bullpen.
cah011381
Actually, no, I was wrong, he got hurt, didn’t pitch for a month, then went back to the bullpen.
dubtastic
and if, out of the small chance, he succeeds as an SP, you’ll eat crow right?
User 401527550
And by the big chance he fails as a starter then you will eat your crow right?
dubtastic
I happily will, and will do so baked over grilled
Fred Lingenfelser
They probably told him they’d let him start to entice him to sign there. But this seems like a Zach Britton type of thing. As an Orioles fan, so many times it was said Zach Britton could go back to being a starter, but ultimately, it’s tough to imagine.
thethrill
But he was a starter in the minors, with good numbers.
2016 6-2 2.97era 12GS 1.434whip 0.1hr/9 4.3bb/9 6.2so/9
2017 8-3 2.74era 19GS 1.343whip 0.3hr/9 3.9bb/9 8.1so/9
Not saying he will be a good starter but he clearly wants to try it again.
rememberthecoop
Not if he’s going to start.
Lanidrac
If they expect him to be a reliever for the majority of the contract, then they heavily overpaid.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
There goes any chance the cubs to have Jordan Wicks and Jordan Hicks.
They would’ve had Wieck,Wicks and Hicks
acoss13
Looks like Hicks wanted to be a starter, that’s probably what stopped the Cubs then.
Curious why the Yankees didn’t try this move with Hicks. They were doing this King, perhaps they didn’t promise him a guaranteed spot in the rotation more of a possible swingman role…
rememberthecoop
No. The Cubs were never interested in Hicks.
acoss13
That’s just me wishing that had been the scenario.
Logjammer makes a good point, a lot of those cheap minor league signings worked out, but Hoyer needs to add a quality bullpen arm from free agency. As you mentioned this is what hurt their playoff chances in 2023. 11 million per year for Hicks, who’s 27 years old, definitely should have been on the table for Hoyer.
Devlsh
I suspect the hope is that the bullpen will be vastly improved by Counsell’s usage of it. He made plenty of anonymous hurlers successful in Milwaukee.
Hoyer probably said, “OK Craig, we can pay you that extra three million a year you’re asking for but you’ll have to earn it by making do with bargain basement relievers.”
luclusciano
They tried this with Jobba Chamberlain, and maybe actually learned a lesson.
rememberthecoop
Funny, but truthfully, even though the Cubs desperately need bullpen help, Hoyer doesn’t believe in spending big for the pen. They need high leverage help, but you watch – there will only be minor league and cheap pick-ups. And then, when the Cubs continue to blow late leads, it will be a repeat of 2023.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Some of those cheap deals worked out great. From Merriweather to Mark Leiter Jr. Javier Assad was solid as a spot starter and long relief guy. Although he was already in their system.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I really like Adbert Alzolay, I would choose him over Jordan Hicks without hesitation. If Adbert is healthy, he should close. Justin and Shota are a fine 1-2 starting punch. If out of Kyle and Jameson one can have a great season then Cubs will be ok. Then out of Smyly, Assad and Wicks you have a number 5 starter and two middle relievers. Ben Brown could join bullpen. Horton will start in 2025. Cubs should pass on Hader and go for Belli and Hoskins.
DarkSide830
As a starter? Boy gonna be injured by the ASB.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
He’ll be back in the bullpen by June. I hope not. I hope he doesn’t get hurt.
oldgfan
SFG will have Cobb & Ray later on so this is really worth a try. If he sticks in the rotation fine, but won’t have to.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Your comment actually makes some sense if it is the Giants’ plan. Only use him as a 4-5 inning starter for a few months and then move him back to bullpen. But I am not sure he can do ten 4-5 inning starts without getting injured.
oldgfan
He does and that’s half the battle. Looks to be a real solid pen this year already, even better with Hicks !
scottn59c
@oldgfan: I, too, think that’s the plan. If he struggles as a starter, he can do swingman duty like Manaea last season. Hopefully he can hold his own, but if not, maybe he can help pave the way to Cobb and Ray, provided they come back well from their convalescence.
Balk
Probably use him as an opener, maybe 2-3 innings. If it doesn’t pan out then bounce him back to the pen.
luclusciano
I’m not sure that’s true. Why set up an incentive, and then not provide the opportunity to reach it each year? Unless they intend to use him as a long receiver long term, this is a head scratcher
Balk
Maybe not at first, but eventually it’s going to have to be. Unless the Giants help him reinvent the wheel, there’s no way a starter can flame throw for 6 innings or more. The incentive is there in case he succeeds as a starter.
ALuepke12
As a starter? He has started what, 8 games in his career? All in 2022 and probably all 2 innings or less?
llokokokok
They think because the padres did it with Lugo they can do it to Hicks. They don’t have Niebla this is probably not going to work out.
joebourgeois
Difference is that Lugo proved himself as a viable though not great starter before the Mets moved him to the pen.
PattheBat
Niebla lmao. Imagine thinking that obese dwarf matters
llokokokok
Not sure you know who Niebla is. That description doesn’t sound like him at all.
99socalfrc
Lugo was also on a one year deal with an option, Giving Hicks 4 years is cringeworthy
drasco036
Lugo bet on himself, and wasn’t it a two year deal with an opt out after the first?
thethrill
Nobody on here is looking at his past, he was a starter in the minors with good numbers.
2016 6-2 2.97era 12GS 1.434whip 0.1hr/9 4.3bb/9 6.2so/9
2017 8-3 2.74era 19GS 1.343whip 0.3hr/9 3.9bb/9 8.1so/9
Not saying he will be a good starter but clearly he wants to try again and I can’t blame him for that.
rondon
If this guy can stay healthy and cut down on the walks, he’s gonna be a right handed Hader. (Good Hader)
omahamadness
Neither of which he has been able to do in his career thus far. I wish him well, he’s just been frustrating as a Cards fan.
baseballpun
Yeah, Cards fan here. This is going to be a disaster for the Giants.
rondon
This is the same team that nixed the Correa deal for health reasons last season.. I think if the Giants are willing to pay that much, at least physically, they must believe he’s fully healthy.
1984wasntamanual
for now.
WillieMcGee51
Cards fan also, he would be unhittable for a few batters then couldn’t find the zone at all or get shelled.
Simm
As a starter, good luck keeping him healthy
sarunas
uh, relievers have more arm problems. plus, he started first 2 pro seasons and excelled. All you skeptics, obviously Hicks wants this and who knows his arm better than him.
99socalfrc
Hicks wants this? If by “this” you mean he wants to be paid like a starter and not a reliever with a horrible injury history then yeah, he wants this. Unreal that he found a sucker, but good for him.
sarunas
4/44 is not starter pay 99iq
johnrealtime
If he gets injured then you move him back to the pen. He has the right to request this, and this is likely why he signed with the Giants instead of somewhere else
Best case scenario, he acclimates to the SP role and you have someone with ace quality stuff in your rotation on a cheap contract.
Seems like a gamble worth taking for both sides
sarunas
My apology 99, I did not know someone other than hicks asked to start. My bad to assume he wanted this.
thegiantshark
SoCalFrC- $11 per year is not starter money. If you’re use the “smartest dude in the room” tone at least have a sense of the market.
mlbnyyfan
IMO Yankees needed Hicks more than Stroman. However the Hicks on NY was horrible
Lanidrac
It’s also not reliever pay for a guy who has been decent at best throughout his career.
baseballpun
You must not have watched him for the last six years.
Datashark
Keeping healthy? heck they are hoping he does not give up 4 runs in the first inning of games.
foppert2
Giants have a great track record with injury plagued pitchers. I suppose fans are just going to ignore that though. Rather than look at the history they will just go with the easy criticism of an opposition team.
oldgfan
Most of it is straight jealousy.
Hicks was wanted by a lot of teams and fans. Now they talk crap. Meanwhile at worst SFG has an awesome pen.
I like the incentives for him to strive to start and eat innings.
baseballpun
As a Cards fan, I never trusted him when he WAS healthy. I think most Cards fans would agree. He never put it together consistently in the pen or the rotation.
He has good stretches. He would be an asset in probably anyone’s pen. He’s not a starter or a reliable full-time closer.
drasco036
They were able to keep Rodon healthy! That’s a feat in itself.
I don’t hate the move for the Giants, not like they have to keep him in the rotation if he fails, he just gets the opportunity.
Yankee Clipper
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I really like this move for the Giants at $44MM. Worst case (or perhaps likeliest case?) scenario is that their bullpen has Doval and Hicks at the end of games. Their staff has down really well with pitching and I really wanted Hicks for the Yankees (well, this Hicks).
However, the only reservation I had was that some of the Cards fans on here said Hicks was a bit of a head case, which I was not aware of.
Regardless, for the relatively small amount of money, this is definitely a shot worth taking. I could see him performing very, very well in SF. But if he stays healthy and succeeds as a starter, this will be one of the best signings of the year.
Sugster21
My thoughts exactly. Could easily be one of the best team friendly deals and even if it blows up completely it’s not crippling the franchise. He’s 27 and I’d say that’s a risk worth taking.
Lanidrac
Hicks at the end of games is a pretty lousy worst case scenario, just as it was for the Cardinals last year while Helsley was hurt and Gallegos was somewhat ineffective up until Hicks was traded. While Hicks did pitch decently during that stretch as the closer, he was still giving up too many baserunners and still blew some saves.
If Hicks does get pushed back to the bullpen, you still wouldn’t want him as any more important than a 7th inning guy if you (hopefully) have better options for the 8th and 9th.
BoldyMinnesota
Even if he doesn’t pan out as a starter 11 million isn’t too bad for a back end of the bullpen arm.
99socalfrc
Drew Pomeranz contract version 2.0
Hicks is certainly worth while when he is out there, it’s the “when he is out there” part that is problematic.
baseballpun
Even when he’s out there he walks too many and gives up a lot of contact for a guy who throws 103 mph. He can be very good for stretches but it never lasts.
sarunas
So pun, you made a comment about me not seeing his last 6 years. Which include excellent numbers as a starter coming up before cards put him in bullpen. And you must have watched him to say he gives up a lot of contact. Last 6 years, His avg exit velocity allowed is in the mid 80’s and his hard contact % is mid 30’s. Those numbers are practically identical to what Snell has allowed last 6 years. But like I’ve said, Hicks wanted this and 4/44 is a damn good rate these days
sarunas
And those numbers I gave mirror scherzer and better than Cole and Ohtanis numbers. And 99, if you’re there, the contract of 4/44 are reliever numbers and he’s betting on himself. If he does well as a starter then in 4 years that’s when you’ll see a starter salary. But like you said 99, this not his idea.
baseballpun
If you think Hicks is as good as Snell or Cole or Ohtani or Scherzer I truly don’t know what to tell you. He’s not. Not close.
Yeah he’s only 27 but he’s been in the league for six years. Hoping a guy is going to find a new level after he hits free agency is not a good idea. Pitchers can sometimes find something new as they age, but I wouldn’t bet on a flamethrower who’s always had control issues to suddenly become someone else.
Lanidrac
That’s the problem. He’s NOT a good back end of the bullpen arm. He’s a decent middle reliever, but that’s it.
prov356
Good for Frisco. With this one signing they’ve done more than the Angels have to improve pitching.
TrumboRedux
Arte gave us CJ Wilson 12 years ago. Let’s not be greedy Prov.
prov356
Thanks for bringing me back from that dark place of disappointment and sadness, Trumbo. I need to be more grateful.
SeibuLionsNPB
It’s also worth noting that the Rays just signed the “other” Japanese pitcher posted to a minor league deal. You telling me the Angels couldn’t have offered him a MLB deal and he wouldn’t have accepted it. Hell the Angels struck out on a guy that chose a different coast to play on than them. I guess if all you get is minor league offers you pick the team that might win more. Cause the Angels could have used him.
Ann Porkins
First thought: oooo, the Giants are spending some money on a guy with upside.
Sees he’ll be a starter: oof, I’ve got mixed feelings to say the least.
I believe in the Giants’ ability to get surplus value from pitchers. They’ve done this a bunch in recent years. So if they like Hicks’ chances to succeed as a starter, I’m willing to give it a shot.
But if this takes them out of the running for any other starting pitchers, I’m not so enthused. They’ll have Cobb and eventually Ray joining the rotation, and their absences give Stripling a chance to earn a spot after his rough 2023… but this team needs some reliable innings behind Logan Webb. They’ve got a bunch of interesting young guys, but none of them have thrown more than 130-150 innings in a professional season… not the kind of workloads to hope for 30 starts apiece.
So I’m open to this (especially because the Giants have money to spend), but I’m worried about the ripple effects on the rest of the roster
llokokokok
Can see what happened to them last year in the 2nd half. Felt like every other day was a bullpen day.
ElectricJ
Out of the box line of thought to get a potential starter on the cheap… not a bad risk or move by the Giants.
1984wasntamanual
Except he’s not a starter and this isn’t cheap for an inconsistent reliever. This is like teams that sign a DH and claim they’re gonna try him in the field.
thethrill
But he was a starter in the minors, with good numbers.
2016 6-2 2.97era 12GS 1.434whip 0.1hr/9 4.3bb/9 6.2so/9
2017 8-3 2.74era 19GS 1.343whip 0.3hr/9 3.9bb/9 8.1so/9
Not saying he will be a good starter but he has the potential.
Lanidrac
Starting in the minors is far different from starting in the Majors, and even in those minors stats are some pretty lousy WHIP and BB/9 numbers.
JoeBoe
I think it’s worth a shot.
Course, I’d have given a stronger deal to Imanaga (so?) than he got from the cubs.
acoss13
Especially for a guy that is 27 years old, that’s pretty good.
TAKERDBACKS
Nice!
Mustard Tiger
A career 1.6 WAR gets you 44 million. The obsession with velocity continues.
This one belongs to the Reds
Funny thing is, he won’t have the same velocity as a starter as a reliever.
m34josh
He was throwing 99 in the 5th inning…against the Giants
baseballpun
“four year, $44 million contract”
Woof, good luck with that. He’s too inconsistent to be worth that kind of money as a reliever.
“Passan adds that the Giants plan to utilize Hicks as a starter rather than a reliever.”
Oh my god, San Fran, what the hell are you doing?
– Sincerely, a Cardinals fan
bobsugar84
This man should be a reliever. Two Rogers, him, and Doval would be a solid 7th, 8th, and 9th. They got Luke Jackson as well. With his injury history it seems like an easy call but maybe that’s one of the reasons he agreed to sign there.
Datashark
Dont forget about Ryan Walker he seems pretty good – but was pushed into opener role
foppert2
Walkers efforts were so under the radar last year it was ridiculous. Got lost in the noise.
Balk
Walker was great!
THEY LIVE!!!
If Stripling is the opener this could work…
Datashark
They will be down by 4 runs without any run producers to get them back into the game
oldgfan
They are not done yet either so…
Frank_TananaDaquri
He won’t be a starter for long.
Datashark
well they have no other options til after all-star break
thecrocusesareinbloom
Not sure how this helps them when they’re never gonna have any leads to preserve with that rotation but go off I guess
thecrocusesareinbloom
Oops, did not read beyond the headline. But that’s even sillier!
JayRyder
Starter, They mean Opener. More of this BS. Farhan – Can’t change a Zebras Stripes. Can’t even sign a freaking Staring Pitcher.
foppert2
Rather than listening to your hate, try listening to what he says.
rct
Crazy amount of years and dollars if you’re going to experiment with him. Hasn’t been a regular starter in six years and that was in the minors. And as the article points out, he wasn’t effective in eight starts the last time someone experimented with him as a starter. Maybe it’ll work out but yikes.
Datashark
Farhan – instead of getting a true Starter he goes after a reliever to be a starter.
I assume he is just looking at scrapping together something until Ray and Cobb come mid-season.
I do not like that plan while teams around him gear up – he goes goodwill shopping
Champs64
This will not end well. Cut to the chase and use Jordan to save your wins. Was hoping the Cardinals could bring him home but at this price they closed the book.
spudchukar
He will have to work on a 3rd pitch. His breaking ball is excellent but his changes is still a work in progress.
thegiantshark
Spud- one of the only constructive comments on here. I agree, he will need to reduce velocity to improve control and work on a way to keep hitters off balance with a change piece. Likely means he will average 4-5 IPs in many starts, but that’s not a huge deviation from what Giant SPs have been doing (minus Webb) and he comes at a decent discount vs what mid rotation guys are signing for this season. Stroman just got $18.5 per year.
Mustard Tiger
“Passan adds that the Giants plan to utilize Hicks as a starter rather than a reliever.”
My prediction is that he will be having TJS before the end of the season.
Digdugler
I am not sure if someone so wild can be an effective starter, but he can always fall back to closer.
luclusciano
Unless his confidence gets destroyed, not sure it is that simple to just “fall back” to being a closer
10centBeerNight
Excellent move by SFG. They need to do even more
Datashark
Farhan better get a plan to get players that are clutch run producers because they will be shut out a lot more games this season than last.
Just curious where does Farhan think the runs will come from they lack true power hitters and clutch performers. They don’t draw many walks to have runners on the board for big innings — where does he think its going to come from?
Batters 1-9 are made up of secondary pieces.
Super2
Why can’t the Giants just be normal??
THEY LIVE!!!
@Super2
Why can’t the Giants just be normal??
LOL!!!
CardsFan57
I’m happy the Cardinals passed if being a starter was the requirement. They already tried that and it went badly.
thegiantshark
They tried it mid season for like 8 starts. I’m not convinced it will work, but I’m not sure the last attempt in STL counts as a viable sample size.
CardsFan57
The plan going into 2022 was to use Jordan Hicks as a starter mostly because he was insisting on it. He prepared to be a starter the entire offseason. He was used exclusively as a starter through May. He was injured all of June. He got one more unsuccessful start in July.
I’ll accept in being a small sample size. It was not attempted mid season. It was planned from the end of the prior season.
thegiantshark
I know he asked to start essentially his whole career, but in ‘22 Spring Training the plan was still a RP. He had 3 IP in 3 appearances. He won the opportunity to start mostly based on Cardinal injuries, but he was being stretched out in the majors, not in the spring.
Again, not sure this works but there have never been earnest attempts to make him a SP
thegiantshark
Just reread what I wrote, I shouldn’t have said mid season, it made my point confusing to read.
Dodger Dog
Starter = Opener
ACamp42755
Darn…..I thought he would have been a good pick up for the Yankees..
DanUgglasRing
What.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Great Googly Moogly
Datashark
Webb, Stripling, Hicks, Harrison, Winn
(before all-star break)
Ugh that is going to be insanely awful – they might be eliminated from contention by the time Cobb and Ray come back
Datashark
Am sure he can wrestle up some livestock for them.
Gwynning
2 Spencer’s for yer livestocking- Steer and Turnbull.
AIMLB
Spencer Turnbull.
foppert2
Maybe Webb, Harrison and any 3 of Hicks, Stripling, Beck, Winn, Black, Whisenhunt.
Cheating the System
So cheap and incompetent they’re trying to have a guy, who couldn’t stay healthy as a reliever, become a starter. (“Hey, the Rays did it with Brebia”!)
spliffTONE
@Cheating the System: Brebbia has never played for the Rays and has only started games as an opener; keep mindlessly whining though
Cheating the System
Obviously, I meant to say Littel and if you knew anything about baseball and weren’t just trying to be argumentative, you would have known that.
Keep mindlessly being argumentative.
spliffTONE
@Cheating the System You’re right: it’s my fault that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Cheating the System
Good off topic comeback.
vaderzim
It’s sad that San Francisco has to overpay to bring in anyone.
THEY LIVE!!!
It’s not sad, it’s laughable.
vaderzim
Totally valid. They’re paying for a guy who can throw hard, but his numbers aren’t staggeringly good.
Jean Matrac
Overpay? MLBTR, who has been consistently low on the estimates for pitchers, predicted 4 years/$40M. The deal is only $4M more, one million a year.
thegiantshark
One guy says “They’re so cheap” the next guy says “they overpay everyone.” Classic.
If the FO were so incompetent you’d think y’all could agree on the way they’re incompetent.
Candlestoked
What an ignorant comment.
Gmen777
What the f***
drdback
Giants are going to ruin this guy’s arm.
Mustard Tiger
If I was a Giants fan I would not be happy with this. These jokers don’t have unlimited bullets and they just wasted a bunch of them on an overrated chump.
oldgfan
Totally cool with it.
thegiantshark
Chumptown- $11M a year not a lot of their bullets. It’s 4 years (risky) but the annual value, even assuming he turns out to only be a RP, isn’t breaking the bank nor will it even be in the top 20 AAV for RPs by end of his contract. If he makes 60+ starts it turns out to be a steal and if is a pen guy, it’s a decent contract. This isn’t a huge swing, it’s a small to medium swing at most.
gravel
A-ok with this move at this price.
PattheBat
Much better than giving BBlake 180 M or a 4th starter in Jordan Montgomery 150.
Farhan pays no heed to the plebs. Love it.
Big Hurt
This is a bargain if he becomes an above average starter, but there’s really no reason to believe he will. Similar to Reynaldo Lopez, some people are better in the pen and need to come to that realization on their own sometimes.
Salzilla
Wow, great pickup for them. Definitely on the NYY’s radar, let’s see if they pivot with a big move for Hader now.
Salzilla
Whoa as a starter??? Yikes, have they seen this dude’s history…?!
YankeesBleacherCreature
Sign Hader to start. Amirite?
Salzilla
I mean i dont like the guy personally, but the dude is lights out. I feel like I want more than Cash does, so it probably won’t happen.
619MetroFriars
Is this the move that the Giants are making in hopes of staying competitive with the Friars? Long long season ahead for the SF Weenies….Hicks will be nothing but severely overmatched when paired up to compete against Yu Darvish and Joey Musgrove…..”Mano Y Mano”
oldgfan
Funny how you think they care about the Padre’s at all. Keep thinking you matter..
spliffTONE
@619 Padres are basically irrelevant outside of making big, splashy moves that generally don’t pan out.
thegiantshark
All hail the Friars, 2023 off-season champs
Devlsh
I think this is yet another reminder of how tight the starting pitching market is. Too many teams chasing too few starters, and now teams are trying to find creative solutions around the problem.
Having said that, Hicks has not shown the ability to make this transition work. Not only has his third pitch never developed and his control been poor, his fastball is troublingly straight or tunnels poorly or has poor spin rate; it’s never been as unhittable as it ought be given the speed. If he has to take mph off in order to last five or more innings, not only is he going to give up more hits, his control means he’s going to have a crowd of baserunners and will never be able to go deep, And that doesn’t even address his considerable injury history. The Giants are really going to have to weave their magic if Jordan Hicks is ever going to make 28 starts per season.
Joel P
I think we have both seen a lot of Hicks. His problem is command. He gets behind and then instead do throwing that 2 seamer with movement that nobody can hit and he can’t locate he throws the 4 seamer which as you said is very straight.
If he could locate the 2 seamer or at least locate it enough to get people to swing at it he would be unstoppable. Nobody can hit that pitch.
No way he should be starting. And my guess is that won’t last long. He doesn’t have the command to be a consistently good relief pitcher he definitely doesn’t have enough to be a starter. I remember games where he was at 100 pitches in the 4th inning.
AIMLB
He has a great slider, Sinkers and Sliders all day. No reason for a 3rd pitch.
Devlsh
Agreed Joel P. The best thing going for him is he’ll be going to a forward-thinking organization that MAY be able to make some tweaks to his stuff and tends to do well in keeping injury prone guys healthy.
I sure wouldn’t bet on Hicks EVER making 28 starts in a season or throwing 165 innings however.
AIMLB
Ever watch Kyle Crick go more than an inning? That’s would be Hicks.
Joel P
Yeah he’s not a starter. Absolute best case he slowly stretches out and improves his command and starts in a few years but even that isn’t happening.
petefrompp
Ugh can’t believe I may defend Farhan here ( not a big fan)
Given Hicks inning count the past couple of years – there is no way he can legitimately be seen as a starter – by the Giants ( who are not dumb – and they are actually pretty good with pitches) or by Hicks himself.
I’m sure the Giants are going to offer him the opportunity to start or open some games – in 2024 , with the goal of building arm strength. He may get some early innings to start he year – plus figure the Giants or going to try and add that elusive third pitch- sweeper or change up. Will probably pull some velocity off + add spin and location to the 2 seamer, then work on locating the 4 seamer at the top of the zone. Figure max 8-9 starts 2024 season.
If they can help him like Gausman, and work on health like Rodon maybe they have something – worse case he ends up more likely a better pitcher and could be a nice add to the bullpen. And hell the Giants can afford $40m lottery tickets – so I’m not going to roast Farhan over this one. There are plenty of other misfires to tag him with…..
Edward Witten, Terrance Tao, and Farhan Zhadi walk into a bar – Farhan chuckles and goes – who let these dumbasses in. ? Farhan – always the smartest man in the room
Joel P
Before the Giants signed Hicks I thought they would sign 1 sure thing starter and 1 maybe starter. This is the maybe starter. I think they will sign another sure thing starter. Maybe if someone gets hurt they can try Hicks in the rotation. Cobb will miss about a month that’s probably long enough for them to see for themselves it’s not gonna work.
99socalfrc
Front offices continue to outsmart themselves. At this point we can clearly say Farhan is one of the most guilty of this. Just go pay Snell or Montgomery, sure it will cost more but you’re guaranteed a very good level of production.
Have to question the motives of Giants ownership, they claim they are ready to spend every year, yet they just extended Farhan and they keep greenlighting moves like this. Sure seems like they are doing it the cheap way more often than not.
Joel P
I highly doubt the Giants are done. I believe they will add another starting pitcher. Perhaps Montgomery or Snell.
AIMLB
Bieber and Spencer Turnbull.
THEY LIVE!!!
Now Farhan can flip Dovall to a team like Seattle for one of their SPs.
spliffTONE
@THEY LIVE!!! Now that’s a pretty absurd take.
5TUNT1N
Hicks kind of replaces Brebbia, who was used as an opener a lot. Hicks can start at the beginning of the season unlike Ray, Cobb. With the amount of bullpen games the giants have thrown over the past few seasons I’m honestly ok with them actually labeling him as a starter or giving him the opportunity he seeks to start. Between Hicks and Rogers(lefty) they would have a really powerful bullpen 1-3 punch if they indeed kept Doval and didn’t trade him at the height of his value. They may not be valued by other teams as much but the giants have like 4-5 really intriguing pitching prospects that surely will not all pan out as starters which would lead to a value prospect to replace doval. And they already have the previously mentioned pitchers that could bridge to the newer guy, all while avoiding another melancon type deal.
ForDoingNothing
Relievers getting more guaranteed money than starting pitchers. Crazy baseball world
ForDoingNothing
Just saw they’re moving him back to a starter. Helps to read first. Unlikely to go well but I guess it’s worth a go ?
pogo
I’m intrigued
LordD99
I’m triggered.
mattwild1
Worse comes to worse he moves back to the bullpen where he was great last year. 11 mil a year for a 27 year old with elite stuff who could potentially hold down a rotation spot for 4 years seems well worth the risk.
oldgfan
BINGO
aTouchOfSarcasm
Remember when we all used to talk about baseball and not politics?
AIMLB
What about the sweeper? Is that MLB or whiffleball?
oldgfan
The difference between ball players and politicians is not all ball players suck.
Aoe3
Hicks throws hard but isnt that accurate. He has a higher chance of getting injured. Just like Ray any lesser velocity these guys are cooked. Could be massive backfire for Giants but wish them the best.
User 4223176798
Farhan loves shopping at Goodwill and Kaiser. I can’t see how this will end well if you put stress on Hicks’ arm as a starter. If he was signed as a one inning reliever then yes, it’s a good gamble. Doval, Hicks and Hader. But I don’t believe Farhan has the coconuts to sign Hader as that would mean shopping at Bloomingdales.
spliffTONE
@True Giants Fan It’s almost as if they can move him back to the bullpen if he doesn’t work out as a starter. Paying Hader ~$100MM would not be a good use of resources for a team in the Giants position.
Americanentropy
Now if they can land an effective Bellinger and either Montgomery or Snell, they should be in the mix.
SFG.1
When the details come out, it’ll have an option after 2 years. That way if he’s good he can leave otherwise the Giants will sit on a bad contract.
Zaidi can talk all he wants, but this is all he ever does. At least he didn’t add another player from Seattle this time.
LambchoP
Damn, was hoping the Twins would get off their asses and sign Hicks. Can you imagine a one-two punch of the backend of our BP with Hicks and Duran?! Maybe I can hope for A. Chapman now. A lefty throwing 101-102 and then our closer Duran throwing 103-105:)
AIMLB
Hicks should talk to that guy who taught all those ML pitchers his slider in 2018. He would throw it harder for sure.
LordD99
Interesting. I wonder how long before they decide to make him a reliever again?
Big whiffa
Starter ? Maybe an opener. SF gonna ruin this fragile kid
VonPurpleHayes
The reliever I wanted now became the starter I didn’t expect.
1984wasntamanual
Is this really what the giants have to do to get players to go there?
spliffTONE
@1984wasntamanual You mean paying a solid player basically what he was projected to get by the major publications?
1984wasntamanual
No, I mean letting a reliever larp as a starter.
oldgfan
Larp ?
gravel
Larp? Nerd! 🙂
9er78
Hey it’s something, we’ll see how it plays out.
Enrico Pallazzo
How has Zaidi not been fired? One good fluke season and besides that his signings and trades have been pathetic or just make no sense at all. Adding Hicks to the pen? Sure why not. He’s got good stuff. Give him a shot and see if he can stay health. But as a starter? Dumb. Dumb Dumb Dumb.
AIMLB
You really don’t know that. Matt Blake got hired and never played pro ball, But Matt Blake learned the Roger Beshens football slider while Roger was teaching Tanaka, and Sevy in 2018, Roger’s football slider alone makes him a better pitching coach cause Roger threw it for years and Blake didn’t.
dkhits20
It’s a nice goal, but he threw over 100 innings once and that was in A-ball back in 2017.
Rsox
Hicks would be great as a Closer, Hicks paired with Doval at the back of the bullpen would be nasty to have to face. Not sure why they would want to risk his arm as a starter
Rsox
To potentially wreck his elbow for the opportunity to have him “healthy” for the final 2 years while wasting 2 years and roughly $22 million? Strange plan…
SnakeWit
Exactly but as a starter??? I’m dying from laughter. As a Dbacks fan this is awesome news!
Wilmer the Thrillmer
They’ll experiment with him as a starter/opener until Ray and Cobb are back. Nice consistent 103mph throughout his career. Best relief arm out there after Hader. 4/44 seems like a pretty team friendly contract even with the injury history. Surprised that the second tier guys aren’t doing better, Brent Suter for 1/3. Dang, that seems light.
1984wasntamanual
This is some serious cope.
MarlinsFanBase
I wanted the Marlins in on Hicks, but at this price, no. Not even close. Thank goodness we didn’t go after this guy at that price.
Good luck Giants…even though the reports are he’ll be trying to start. That is an extra good luck for that part too.
highflyballintorightfield
I don’t know why people are crapping on this move. They have to get creative and overpromise. Improvise and adapt. They can hardly keep rolling with what they have nor could they at this point count on attracting a better starter.
spliffTONE
@davey gee You do realize we are living in the year 2024?
MarlinsFanBase
@highflyballintorightfield
The problem is the amount of money and contractual commitment in years for what essentially is a gamble.
Hicks isn’t even worth this as a reliever because he hadn’t shown he was the man worthy of this yet either.
Creative is one thing, but this is a gamble. And no one gets creative on a gamble with that kind of financial commitment.
Candlestoked
So what. It ain’t your money.
stephaniebpetagno
He quite literally got the market value as a reliever. If he’s successful as a starter it’s a relative bargain deal. Watch what Snell gets.
bighiggy
Other teams are playing checkers and the giants are playing boggle.
Candlestoked
Makes sense with two starters out for the first half of the season. He probably returns to the pen in July.
Camden453
4 years to Hicks and then making him a starter is one of the more boneheaded moves you’ll ever see
Niekro floater
Make San Fran Great Again ! Massive overpay, red flag injury history, and last time he was stretched out as starter he blew his arm out. This is nail in zaidi’s coffin … 44Mill for 8th inn guy. High hopes indeed.
Candlestoked
Massive overreaction.
Jean Matrac
Massive overpay? I guess you haven’t been paying attention.
Eduardo Rodriquez 4/$80MM.
Lucas Giolito 2/$38.5MM.
Marcus Stroman 2/$37MM.
Seth Lugo 3/$45MM.
Michael Wacha 2/$32MM.
Kenta Maeda 2/ $24MM.
Reynaldo Lopez 3/$30MM.
Nick Martinez 2/ $26MM.
Sean Manaea 2/ $28MM.
Tyler Mahle 2/$22MM.
Kyle Gibson 1/$12MM
Lance Lynn 1/$11MM
Craig Kimbrel 1/$13MM
Wade Miley 1/$8.5MM
If you find Hicks’ deal to be an overpay in the context of what other pitchers are being paid, then I guess you must have a crystal ball. Apparently you can see a performance massively below his average in the future.
oldgfan
If in the context of what SFG has to spend it’s a drop in the bucket. This team is not done yet. They still need some star power and will go hard after a big splash. Probably Bellinger is my guess.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Frankie Montas 1/$16MM
Luis Severino 1/$13MM
sacball
Hahaha these are like the Kevin Gausman comments all over again…
CardsFan57
Did people really comment that it was a bad idea to make Gausman a starter? That would be a bit strange since he was used almost exclusively as a starter for 8 years prior to going to SF.
Jean Matrac
The comments weren’t specific to the role. But they were just as negative. It was panned by many, like the Hicks’ signing as a stupid one by Zaidi.
Not sure why you characterize the idea as bad. Relievers have been stretched out to start in the past without negative physical effects. If he doesn’t do well as a SP he can always go back to the pen.
CardsFan57
Get back to me at the end of the year. I’ve watched Hicks for years. This starter idea will end as badly for SF as it ended for STL.
Jean Matrac
CardsFan57, Well maybe. Not sure why you’re so absolutely sure the idea of him starting has zero chance of success. I know baseball people make mistakes, but they’re also pretty good at assessing players and their abilities. I doubt they made this commitment to Hicks on the spur of the moment without thinking about it.
CardsFan57
Let’s see how it goes this season. I’m willing to wait.
BennyG1919
You mean the guy who almost won a CY Young last year?
SnakeWit
As a Dbacks fan I’m laughing I say good use him as a starter. He will have to lower the velocity to lengthen the stamina and throw into the 6th. He will not be nearly as effective as a starter. Never pitched beyond 105 innings I can’t see any problem here. LOL
Candlestoked
Snakes are not known for their wit, Lol!
SnakeWit
I see your a dim wit congrats! LOL
luvochka
They really need to invest in bats at this point, I mean even with another decent starter the best they’ll be able to hope for is a wild card spot, but the lineup, oh my God, half those guys are borderline major Leaguers.
aussiegiants53
Not sure I like the idea of using him as a SP, sure, give it a go but I’m not optimistic, put him in the 8th inning. Might be a nice trade chip at next years deadline
1984wasntamanual
Not with that contract.
spliffTONE
@Joelwasbannedfromcardstalk Get a life, dude
gtownfan
Not sure who they were bidding against but congrats to SF
KHE
Here we go !! There’s the big splash they were talking about !! WOOT !! Sigh, N O T !! Here we go again, Bargain Basement Shopping !! 4th place, “IF” we are lucky, probably Cellar Dwelling !!
oldgfan
Ya just can’t wait for that Snellinger signing
Fishchum
Beat it, Mousenuts.
PinstripedPride
I really wanted the Yankees to sign him, so that he could perhaps be our future closer. He’s a great pitcher, but he hasn’t shown he can handle MLB as a starter yet. I guess San Francisco’s plan to make him one won him over, and that’s fair if he wants to do that. Let’s see if it works.
BaseballisLife
I don’t know whether I should laugh at this or cry for Giants fans.
RandorBierd
He’s mentally weak, physically fragile, and has a combination of very low work ethic and determination.
Jean Matrac
People seem to be under the impression that stretching out a reliever to become a starter is unprecedented. These people must be new to the game. It’s been done in the past and teams have a formula on how to safely do that.
Michael Lorenzon started his first season, but spent the next 6 seasons as a reliever until the Angels turned him back into a starter. Cal Quantril spent a season as a reliever between being a SP. Seth Lugo was a reliever for all but one of his seasons with the Mets and then the Padres converted him to a starter. Plenty of guys have done it without TJS being the outcome.
1984wasntamanual
How many of those guys had previous injury issues an bb/9 ~5? Also…what is the actualy success rate of those conversions. You name a few cases where it worked, but how many didn’t?
Jean Matrac
1984wasntamanual
“…how many didn’t?”
Uh, you tell me. I saw a number of predictions of disaster, so I did a little research to see how often it’s been done. If you think there are examples of when it hasn’t worked you’re invited to do some research as well. Posing the question, as an argument against doing it, is weak.
I do know that Lorenzen missed half the season in the year prior to his being converted. Seth Lugo also missed a couple months in 2021, Quantrill appears to have been fairly healthy. But while Lorenzen’s and Lugo’s numbers as SPs have been consistent with their career stats, Quantrill’s number are up and down as both a SP and a RP.
Pads Fans
Other than Seth Lugo and Lorenzen, can you name even one other other reliever that has done it after 5 seasons in the majors? Because I can’t find one.
Even Lorenzen is questionable because he has never pitched a full season as a starter. He has not made more than 25 starts in a season.
2 is not plenty. Its a couple.
Jean Matrac
Derek Lowe, Chris Sale, Jeff Samardzija, Johan Santana, Adam Wainwright and C.J. Wilson. All were relievers at one point, though not necessarily for 5 seasons.
Jean Matrac
Derek Lowe was a reliever for 5 seasons as was C.J. Wilson. Samardzija was for 4.
Pads Fans
Lowe was a hybrid 3 of the 1st 4 years of his career (the other he was in the minors almost all season) then 3 years as reliever then a starter. Does not fit.
baseball-reference.com/players/l/lowede01.shtml
Sale 2 years as a reliever then starter. Does not fit.
Jeff Samardzija 2 of 1st 4 as hybrid and just one full season as a reliever in 2011. Doesn’t fit.
Johan Santana was never a straight up reliever. Doesn’t fit.
Adam Wainwright had ONE season as a reliever. Doesn’t fit.
C.J. Wilson had 5 seasons as a reliever or at least mostly a reliever. I will give you that one.
So one more. 3 total. Now its a few. Still not lots.
Its EXTREMELY rare. Rarer than position players becoming pitchers.
Jean Matrac
Your criterion, that no reliever converted to a SP that wasn’t a RP for 5 seasons doesn’t apply, is just silly. Any pitcher after even one entire season as a reliever, means stretching out, and physically adapting the pitcher to a new work routine to be converted to a SP.
But then, of course, you obviously know better than any MLB director of pitching, pitching coach, or trainer, who apparently believe it can be done, so why am I wasting my time.
Murphy NFLD
Unless a guy has been a relief pitcher sense college there is no reason i could think of bot to stretch a guy out if you think he can, think you see something that can make him better, think you have the perfect coach or just plain desperate. All every pitcher does is build up are strength over weeks/months,playing catch, long toss, weighted balls etc. just like and thing else endurance based you build tour way towards being able go handle (throw) more and more. Even in the example i left, that pitcher who sense college was a relief pitcher, could still build up to do it to. Ive only been watching baseball 20 yearsish and its not difficult to figure out
CardsFan57
The Cardinals tried to work out an extension with Hicks before trading him. I now believe his wanting to start is what prevented the extension.
RandorBierd
Not to mention that he has a bad attitude.
BaseballGuy1
Great fastball… speed, but it lacks significant movement. Hitters gear-up and tend to hit it second time through the line-up. Other pitchers are not strong enough unless he has been perfecting something not commonly aware of. Consider this as a starting pitcher experiment and let’s revisit about the middle of the season.
BennyG1919
So the Blue Jays trade for this guy and then let him walk after signing virtually no one this off season. Nice …can we drag Ross Atkins out into the street and tie him to a pole now? Worst GM EVER
Murphy NFLD
If he can trade for a REAL DH like Nick Castellanos or Eloy Jeminez and get a solid platoon 4thOF type like duvall, grossman or trade for Ramirez from the rays then ill be ok but they need an everyday OF with power who is a RHH or S IMO. They already have 2 everyday LHH OFs and Biggio can play RF and make it 3 out there. Plus with and luck a rookie makes the team at 3b. Schneider can play 2b/LF Biggio 2b/3b/of and Barger is 3b/ss/RF and dam palmegiani is a all corners guy with a real bat. So we will see
runningwithnailclippers
On the whole subject of San Fran and it’s homeless issues. Maybe we need to start helping people with mental illness in hospitals and actually show concern for our fellow humans. Once the mental institutions become just corporate blackholes (like current hospital chains), we just decided to throw the ill on the road and blamed them for their problems but offerered no real mental health help. Better spend that money on building stadiums and making the rich happy then actually helping those in real need.
User 4223176798
Lot of talk about 100 mph arm. Yet his career K is barely over one per innning. And he averages 5 walks per 9 innings. Below average career. Has to be a huge overpay. You can’t trust him to close given his lack of ability to miss bats and the number of walks he gives up. Opener? Too many walks. Giants will be in the hole immediately. An expensive arm for middle relief.
Jean Matrac
You’re joking right?
“His career K is barely over one per innning (sic)”.
And you think that isn’t good? He doesn’t have the IP to qualify for the leader board on BB Ref, but if he did his 9.4 SO/9 would rank him either 19th or 20th all time best. Only 10 pitchers in the history of baseball have a SO/9 of 10 or more.
1984wasntamanual
He’s 190th in k/9 for pitchers with 240 innings (he has 243).
User 4223176798
K9. Doval 11..6. Ryan Walker 11.4. Brebbia 11.0. Junis 10.0. Luke Jackson 11.6. Hicks 9.4. And Sergio Romo had a 9.8 K9 rate over 15 years! Enough said. He can throw hard but so could Hunter Strickland.
Pads Fans
Last season Hicks has his career best for K/9 and was 38th among relievers in K/9.
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg…
Over his career, 2018-2023, Hicks has ranked 159th out of 350 relievers in K/9
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg…
All time among relievers he ranks 267th in K/9
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg…
Pads Fans
106 ERA+ = 6% above average.
3.85 Career ERA MLB average was 4.11 for relievers.
sarunas
spotrac has them at $195 mill tax payroll. About $42 mill under threshold
drasco036
Cots has them just over 30 million under.
I don’t love the fit, but I could see the Giants grabbing Bellinger now that they unloaded Hanigar.
sarunas
They said one or 2 yrs of taxes would be ok. About $60 mill come off books after 2024. So fingers crossed they’ll add a starter, Chapman. I don’t think they’re going for Bellinger. I don’t see a fit either. My wish list at the start was Montgomery Chapman and Hicks. I believe Chapman will sign. Montgomery appears headed to Texas. Snell still in play though.
sarunas
PS Lee was on my list too.
drasco036
The Giants need power/middle of the order bat and Bellinger is the only one who fits that profile (aside from Martinez). Chapman is fine but I think he’s a 17.5 million dollar player vs 25. He’s good defensively and okay offensively. You cannot build a line up around him and third isn’t a premium defensive position.
It’s funny the Giants and Cubs have been swimming in the same waters. I’m curious what the Cubs will do with Busch, try him at third and target a first baseman or put him at first and go in on Chapman?
SFG.1
This reminds me of when the A’s signed Scott Hatteberg who after 7 years as a backup Catcher in Boston, the A’s signed him as the everyday 1st Baseman! The guy made $5mil in 5 years and now gets a $44mil deal from the Giants. LOL! Talk about desperation!
sarunas
Trade Rumors predicted 4/40 and he got 4/44. Hatteberg example is a nonexemplar. If he ends up relieving he’s a top5 reliever. Desperation.
Jean Matrac
SFG.1, Hicks and Hatteberg = apples and oranges.
You do know that every single player in MLB makes a ton more money once they reach free-agency, right? Hicks was under team control for the past 5 years. This year he became a FA.
foppert2
Best non me first reliever on the market that doesn’t dictate when and how he pitches. 21 in the FA rankings. Contract is all but as they predicted. The only desperation and the only thing laughable here is the negativity in the MLBTR commentary.
YourDreamGM
I like it. 11m for at worst a 27 yr old 3 something era reliever. Has the talent to be an elite closer. If they make him a useful starter good for them.
Pete Rose? You Bet!
I’m a lifelong Cards fan and will say his arm is special and agree he could be an elite closer. 101 MPH sinkers + 106 MPH fastballs are just plain unfair. But that’s not sustainable for even 5-6 innings. Cards tried to make him a starter and it just didn’t translate plus led quickly to a dead arm. I hope for his sake they put him in the BP where he belongs.
RandorBierd
He’s a thrower and has never mastered the art of pitching. Not only that but also he makes no effort to improve himself or take coaching on board. Things are always someone else’s fault.
foppert2
Not according to his long toss partner and former team mate Ryan Helsey who discussed the acquisition on Foul Territory yesterday.
Candlestoked
O, how could Ryan Helsey know more about Hicks than Randor Bierd?
RandorBierd
Yes because players always call out the inconvenient truth about those they have played with.
foppert2
Did you watch it ? He spoke about him working on a 3rd pitch.
baseballteam
Now, will any position players sign withSF..
Pete Rose? You Bet!
Love his arm in the BP but it wouldn’t hold up when the Cards tried to make him a starter. I don’t see SF having any more luck in that department. Good guy and I wish him the best!
Redb1
It is hard to take your eyes off the gun when he pitches. Easily the filthiest sinker I’ve ever seeen when he’s on(102-104 mph!)He just needs to learn how to pitch and set it up consistently.
DarrenDreifortsContract
They are going to need a lot more help than that.
JoeBrady
I get the value attraction of making him a starter, but his career-best in BB9 was 3.5., and his career average is 4.9. That feels like a lot of pitches if you want a guy to throw 5-6 innings.
Murphy NFLD
My blue jays have a great pitching coach in Walker and his crew, seemingly the Giants have a great staff to. Both these teams have seemed to fix things, pull things out of guys, make pitchers realize things, work to alter mechanical issues and various other things that helped guys take that next step prime example is robbie ray with the jays who pitched his best year ever and a good-great year with. Matz and and stripling are 2 other Matz a 1 year, Strip on the other had 2 plus of his better years ever with the jays. The giants helped unlock Gausman and what hes found. Hopefully Hick goes from 99.9% effort with every pitch to 85-90% that will hopefully lower his walks and allow him deeper in games then 3innings. But if there were 2 teams i would say have a chance to do it he picked 1 so good luck kids ill be following you again this year. Take your Average Velo down to 97-98 and see how that helps the walks, and lead heavy o that sinker its a killer bruh
BondsAway
Another terrible off-season for Zaidi & the Giants. They promised the fan base they were going to be aggressive & spend a ton of money, but at the end of the day, all they did to upgrade their terrible offense was add Lee. The meat of LA’s batting order will be Freeman, Betts, & Shohei. The Padres (in a rebuild year) have Tatis,Bogart’s, & Machado, meanwhile SF fans get to look forward to Wilmer Flores, LaMonte Wade, & Thairo Estrada. An absolute disgrace. Zaidi has got to go & this ownership group needs to admit to the fan base that they could care less about winning & their only concerned about fattening their pockets. Absolute joke what’s going on in SF!!!
BondsAway
Apparently your content being average. And if I were in Zaidi’s spot, I would do better than him. Give me all the scouts, specialists, analytic Dept, & money etc. I guarantee my biggest free agent signings in 5 years wouldn’t be Tommy La Stella & Anthony Descalfani. So suck it. Have some pride, don’t be content with being someone else’s b****
Jean Matrac
“They promised the fan base they were going to be aggressive & spend a ton of money…”
This is typical of Zaidi critics, They see what they want to, without regard to the real meaning. I saw this previously, where one misguided poster claimed that Zaidi “promised” he would sign Judge.
You’re confusing Zaidi stating his intent with a promise being made. He was aggressive when he made huge offers to both Ohtani, and Yamamoto. Had even one of them agreed Zaidi would have spent a lot of money. But that promise was never made, only his intent to try.