June 25: The Angels moved Sandoval to the 60-day injured list today. Silseth was reinstated from the 60-day IL and optioned, keeping their 40-man roster at capacity.
June 24: Angels left-hander Patrick Sandoval told reporters that he has a high-grade flexor tear and a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his left arm. Rhett Bollinger of MLB.com was among those to relay the news on X. While Bollinger uses the phrase “Tommy John surgery,” Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register says on X that the exact nature of the surgery isn’t yet clear. Regardless, the lefty is done for this year and part of 2025 as well.
The news is obviously devastating, both for Sandoval personally and for the Angels as a team. As the club has struggled to find consistent quality pitching in recent years, the southpaw has been one of the few bright spots of their staff.
Since the start of 2021, Sandoval has tossed 460 innings for the club, allowing 3.80 earned runs per nine frames. He struck out 22.6% of batters faced in that time with a 10.2% walk rate and 47.3% ground ball rate. Unfortunately, he had to leave Friday’s start in obvious pain and was placed on the 15-day injured list with an elbow strain, and now the decision has been made that surgery is required.
Sandoval qualified for arbitration after 2022 as a Super Two player. He made $2.75MM last year and is making $5.025MM this year, with two more arbitration seasons remaining. With the Angels having a poor season and no return to contention in sight, he could have been made available at this summer’s deadline and been one of the more attractive arms on the market, something that MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently took a look at.
Now that won’t be on the table and Sandoval is looking at a lengthy layoff. A full Tommy John surgery usually comes with a recovery timeline of 14 to 18 months, which would put his 2025 season in jeopardy. The internal brace variety can sometimes have shorter timelines, but only by a few months.
The Angels will transfer Sandoval to the 60-day injured list when they need a roster spot but he will need to be reinstated for the offseason. Assuming they tender him a contract for 2025, he won’t be able to get much of a raise on the heels of this truncated season. The club may be tempted to non-tender a pitcher that may not contribute anything next year, but pitchers in this situation often sign two-year deals to cover their recovery and return to the mound. The Angels can effectively do that just by tendering him a deal for next year and then for 2026.
It’s also another challenge for a rotation that has had plenty. Reid Detmers struggled enough this year that he was optioned down to the minors. Tyler Anderson is having a good year but is 34 years old and has one year left on his contract, making him a logical trade candidate. Griffin Canning has just one year of control beyond this year as well. Chase Silseth and José Soriano are also on the injured list. Zach Plesac has been added to the roster lately but hasn’t found much success in his first two starts. With Sandoval’s surgery, piecing together the rotation will be even harder, both this year and next year.
For Sandoval personally, he will lose the remainder of his age-27 season and a decent chunk of his age-28 season as well, putting a big dent in his earning power. He’ll turn 29 years old in October of next year.
For those of you that saw this, I’ll bet you are not remotely surprised.
Ippei and I will take that bet.
Good grief, MLB, the walking dead. Soon all our pitchers will look like Frankenstein, or worse, Igor
…..Hmmm that’s weird…..
I wish him the best.
Elbows just ain’t what they used to be… 🙁
It’s cuz they’re all made in China now.
Ain’t it the truth King, ain’t it the truth.
Mike Elias, Orioles POBO, was asked about this rash of injury type recently. He’s not sure exactly if he knows why but he did make the comment that these elbow problems are not just at the MLB level but in lower levels of competition as well … which I thought was revealing.
Pitchers that throw sliders and cutters that are gripped off center are going down like flies. That’s the main thing, I’m talking with a ML pitching coach about other stuff that has been happening since 2018.
In 2018 MLB had more K’s than hits for the 1st time in its history that was because of a certain slider that was introduced by a person to MLB.
That non traditional slider has been taught wrong in many cases but still very effective. The Rays are proof of that. When they got Glasnow from Pitt, Glasnow was already throwing that non traditional slider. In 2018 that slider was much different than the cutter. A few years ago some started morphing the cutter to get closer to that Trad slider. What we are seeing now are BAD TILTS on the cutter and some on the non trad slider. There’s also an issue I won’t get into cause I’m in talks with a ML pitching coach about it.
Weird. I think you actually know what you’re talking about, but I’m doubting myself because a lot of folks in this forum think they do, but they don’t.
I’m talking with Brent Strom since Feb.
Based on slider/cutter percentages and spin who do you think is most likely to get hurt
All the pitchers I’ve seen get hurt have a bad tilt or have an off center grip on the slider or cutter.
Those are the two most popular secondary pitches.
Those are also the ones causing the injuries.
bts – Whenever I have brought up a possible reason for the overwhelming elbow surgeries this season, all of the opposing opinions blame the fastball.
You think Sandoval and the dozens of others that went down this year hurt his arm throwing a fastball? The cutter has a bad tilt, the sweeper which is a slider also is thrown wrong, I don’t want to get into any detail cause we have a getting credit issue in MLB that’s part of the reason these injuries are happening. I want them exploiters called out and taken out of the game.
I am in talks with a ML pitching coach. Watch the slow motion of Strider, Bieber, Giolito when they throw the Slider or cutter.
It’s violent like being in car accident.
If you watch the strider slider slow motion video on you tube you will understand what I’m talking about.
There’s more than one thing causing arm problems but eliminating one of the problems is obviously a good start in the right direction.
It’s the nature of the beast.
Ask how many ex NBA players in their 60s have knee replacements.
I don’t like it, but it is what it is. At least Sandoval is going to make 10 million while he’s on the IL.
“At least Sandoval is going to make 10 million while he’s on the IL.”
But is that a good thing? I mean obviously it is a good thing for him personally, but I don’t see how it is beneficial for anyone else. For the team, that money could go elsewhere on the roster, For teammates, there has to be a little bit of envy or disdain in the back of your mind knowing that you are getting paid less while a guy rehabs. For the fans, I have never understood why an athlete’s salary matters to them at all. I mean, you get to continue to pay higher prices to not even watch the guy anymore. It just makes no sense.
For a player who gets hurt while performing his job, it’s a good thing that he is going to be financially taken care of.
I think a real jerk move would be for the Angels to release him.
And I doubt any player cares how much he makes.
So if you are working at a job and you know that a co-worker is sitting on his ass at home with an injury and is making 10 times your salary, that wouldn’t bother you even a little? I don’t believe that.
The Angels might release because he is really not that good anyway. Guys like Brandon Woodruff and German Marquez signed 2 year deals following their injuries, but they both had a much better track record than Sandoval. He has really had one good year and even wasn’t THAT good. He is just your basic back of the rotation guy that is not really that hard to replace.
Hiflew
You do realize the Angels have to pay him whether they keep him or release him don’t you? If you don’t realize it then you need to stop making comments because you do not understand the basic principals of a contract.
Sandoval was hurt on the job. So the MLB club is bound to the terms and length of the contract. Should they release him another club can swoop in and only pay the MLB minimum, the Angels are on the hook for the rest.
To add to that, the Angels really are not paying all that much to Sandoval compared to other pitchers with his experience.
If I am a cop and my partner gets shot and can’t work, I want him to get paid…duh!!!
If people get hurt on the job, especially at a risky job, they deserve to get paid.
How can anyone disagree with that?
If they release him, they don’t have to pay him for 2025.
I don’t think that is accurate. It is my understanding that as long as it is baseball related injury, they are obligated to pay the contract in full. I believe baseball contracts are fully guaranteed.
The contract ends after this year.
The Angels do not have to tender him next year. They are not forced to offer him arbitration.
He’s not guaranteed a dime next year.
This year they have to pay him.
I love it when people are arrogant enough to publicly scold me all the while being wrong themselves. Pre-arbitration and Arbitration players are only under contract from year to year. Teams hold their rights for the first six years, but the players are not guaranteed anything for the next year until they are tendered a contract after the season.
And before you scold me again, please realize that I meant they would non-tender him following the season, not release him tomorrow. I figured that went without saying, but I tend to forget that sometimes you really have to spell things out for the denser members of the community. I apologize for giving you benefit of the doubt that you could figure it out on your own. It’ll never happen again.
Do you want him to get paid 10 times your salary to sit at home while you are taking the risks without him?
I wouldn’t mind a bit. It’s one of the Ten Commandments. Which is more about preserving your sanity than God’s.
If you get hurt on the job, you’ve earned it.
Hiflew… a bit sensitive are we?
You did say “release” not non-tender. There is a huge difference in what each would mean to the player.
It is easy to back track and say “oh I mean”, which is fine, but don’t follow it up with an insult You were wrong, live with it.
This November, what’s the difference between release and non-tender.
For the most part it’s semantics.
I stand by what I said.
PAIN!
The pitch that’s the money maker is the non traditional slider that someone came out with in 2018. I know that person. (RB) it even has a name inside the lines. (RBFS) That pitch got hundreds of pitching coaches hired from just reading the message how it’s thrown but they never actually threw that non traditional slider. The Sweeper and Gyro is this non traditional slider I am talking about. It’s been thrown wrong in many cases for years and Ohtani, Glasnow, deGrom…learned it in 2018. They threw it wrong but look at the fame and fortune they got from it. The risk reward is much greater on the reward side for throwing it.
Now the cutter is closer looking to this slider cause some joker pitching gurus took the cutter and morphed it to be closer to the RBFS. Which is a huge mistake cause it has a BAD TILT.
I laugh at pitch design. Who designed any pitch? They took the RBFS called it a sweeper and Gyro and now are messing with the cutter morphing it closer to the RBFS and ruining arms in the process.
Not hard for me to explain when I know the facts.
It can’t be reported because that reporter would be black balled like Canseco. Insiders know, too much money and jobs at stake.
I just sit back and watch pitchers go down like flies and it’s their fault, they know the risk reward. The ones that don’t last long enough to cash in got the risk not the reward.
@bts60001014kia: You do realize, don’t you, that you just said the same thing at length three times?
And each time, you boasted about talking to some pitching coach.
Why must you repeat yourself ad nauseam?
Just an excellent example of why the mute button was invented.
The mute button was created for people to mute the person they disagree with. Come on now!
Bro, just don’t read it. lol.
When thrown properly the football slider is very effective pitch. It’s a variation of steve Carltons slider which was very nasty and ron guidrys slider, also very nasty. Carlton as we all should know was a ironman, never had a major arm problem. Guidry did end up retiring prematurely. Any pitch not thrown properly and violently??? Boom !!
The King Buddha: You mean any pitch thrown violently.
Sandoval may be out til ’26, Anderson will almost certainly be traded and maybe Trout will be ready to play in spring training, if he likes the Angels moves over the off-season
The trainer with the awesome hair is probably thinking I can go play drums somewhere and not be a part of this grease fire that has been the Anaheim Los Angeles of Orange County and Disneyland Angels. I have never seen a bigger mess.
This news story has been added to Chapter 15 of “How To Destroy a Franchise” which is surely to be a New York Times best seller.
The last thing remaining is the photo shoot, but word on the street is that Arte is refusing to put on the Satan suit.
Feel for the young man, I have seen him pitch. I hope he recovers nicely next year sometime.
Stubborn old man Arte Moreno sell the damn team
@Johnny he has unfinished business, can’t get a new stadium and another losing season in the books.lets light up that L.
If you were a ML pitcher and learned a pitch that can help elevate your game to elite status, are you going to tell your teammates OR ANYONE the Grip, Tilt and Wrist action of that SLIDER before you cash in?
No way in heck. I thought many would help their teammates AFTER they rang the register so the could MAYBE win a World Series.
That isn’t even happening because they want to be the ace of the staff.
It’s easy for me to know all this cause, I’m part of it.
MLB knows the problem but they can’t do anything cause they came out with the ridiculous Sweeper and Gyro nonsense which is just the RB Football Slider.
If MLB did a deep dive it’s the BAD TILTS and OFF CENTER GRIP the cutter and morphed cutter have. I’m in talks with a future HOF coach about it.
Pitch design is a joke, it’s a money grab, no new pitches are being developed. There’s no pitching lab needed. If you want the money maker slider you say, Roger Beshens in May 2018 told hundreds of ML pitchers to use an on center grip, Throw like a football, stiff wrist. If they did that there would be no pitching lab. You can manipulate any grip or tilt without a pitching lab. Eventually I believe the right thing will happen and these exploiters will get exposed and the greater good will happen. Every kid who loves baseball deserves to know the truth,which is learn the proper way to throw the football slider, don’t throw pitches that have a BAD TILT.
I can’t believe MLB came up with a sweeper which is a RB football Slider and the gyro which is the same grip tilt and wrist action but thrown over the top to get the vertical drop.
Bummer man. Hope for a speedy recovery. In typical Angels fashion they won’t give a straight answer as to the exact nature of the surgery. They’re pathologically untruthful. While Sandoval is off I hope he comes back a little more even keel you can’t live and die with each pitch or every time the defense lets him down which is a lot with the Halos!
Based on Sandoval’s reaction on the mound, I knew it wasn’t just a strained elbow. Moreno’s first report on any injury of this magnitude is always a lie before he tells the truth.
Wish you well Sandoval.
More Surgeons needed to keep up the pace!
They should call it Manfred surgery.
And there is no evidence it’s the pitch clock. Although pitchers have complained they can’t cheat anymore.
Saw an interview with Alex Wood. He is convinced the baseballs are smaller than they were when he broke into the major leagues. If he is correct Manfred should be questioned about it.
Let’s not forget that they have to grip them harder without sticky stuff. Pitchers seem to think it has something to do with it.
Yes! Harder grip would cause more strain. If someone presses or squeezes something with their fingers you can feel the muscles tighten between the wrist and elbow.
That’s what I’ve heard as well BJ.
No, squeeze tight and then throw effortlessly.
You never pitched before, you would have knew that.
And don’t have the movement and get ripped.
And what kind of idiot tells someone they don’t know that they have never pitched. But I imagine there is a huge difference between throwing in the low 80s than high 90s.
Hitters do not squeeze the bat tight. Hands are relaxed. They can also do that because they have enough grip thanks to some sticky substances.
If you grip something tight over and over it will cause some strain on the arm. Particularly between the elbow and fingers.
Squeeze tight throw effortlessly. You certainly never played baseball if that is what you believe.
I’m talking about gripping a certain slider tight, the Roger Beshens Football Slider, Not a bat or anything else.
Don’t you know Brent Strom is consulting with Roger Beshens the last 3 months? Video of it.
Do your research before talking like a stupid person.
Pitch clock strikes again
Nope
Old Hoss Radbourn was tossing 500-600 innings back in the good ol’days but nowadays guy’s can pitch more than a 100 innings without needing to spend decades on the Disabled List.
Ridiculous! Learn to pitch instead of chucking the balls.
Have you picked up a baseball from Old Hoss’ era? Soft, brown, easy to grip, easy to throw, hard to hit far.
MLB should ask every injured pitcher the types of pitches they throw and in particular concentrate on the Grip, Tilt and Wrist action of the Roger Beshens Football Slider. The 90 degree Tilt also known inside the lines as the Roger Beshens Football Slider (Football Tilt) is the safe one.
The cutter has a BAD TILT and many pitchers are morphing their cutter to get closer to the RB Football Slider. The off center grip and/or Bad Tilt is the problem.
MLB might not want to ask because the Roger Beshens Football Slider thrown from a lower arm angle they call the sweeper and over the top it’s called in some cases the gyro. That agenda alone may keep the injury circus in play maybe. That’s what happens when people get hired that have no business being there. They let their clown friends in. MLB is like a circus but more clowns.
Or just get rid of the pitch clock.
Or bring back the 15 inch mound height. And bring back large foul territory. And bring back the baseball they used 50 years ago. Then tell umpires to get the hitter into the box and stop calling time when the pitcher is set.
What’s a sweeper? It’s a slider thrown from a lower arm angle.
What kind of slider’s are being thrown in MLB? The traditional off center one with a bad tilt. You wanna throw a pitch off center with a bad tilt or throw the other slider.
The non traditional Roger Beshens Football Slider Grip, Tilt and Wrist action is On center grip, throw like football, Stiff wrist.
Is the Sweeper and Gyro the same slider? Yes they both are the RB Football slider, same grip, tilt and wrist action but thrown from a different arm angle.
The problem is some are taught to throw it different, especially the sweeper and that’s where a lot of the problems are but it’s the cutter that has the BAD TILT which is destroying arms. Common sense says if you have an off center grip and bad tilt bad things are going to happen.
Now look at the hitters, ballpark changes, and rule changes over the last 60 years that has contributed to the changes pitchers have made.
I am starting a petition to ban bts60001014kia
Who’s in?
Ah, you want a piece of candy to make you feel better?
No cry baby’s in baseball talk.
Thank you
For not replying back with your new found friend who happens to be a pitching coach said “there’s no crying in baseball”
BTS
By the way I still have a 1971 Brent Strom baseball card.
Should I utter that 10 more times on here, just as you did?
Sorry about that. I got a little carried away.
Hope Nelly’s slider usage goes up today and it helps the team win.
Manfred Surgery
Arte Moreno is over his head, stubborn old man sell the damn team
You know, Moreno interferes hand, picking players that’s why he always hires a general manager with no experience, Moreno calls the shots you really can’t blame Perry Minasian, the pool that he has to pick from is like the $.99 store Arte Moreno wearing the Satan suit this year
In 2018 dozens of ML pitchers learned how Andrew Miller threw his slider and are now throwing it from ALL arm angles. Roger Beshens gets the credit for coming out and explaining the Grip, Tilt and Wrist action of this non traditional slider, which is 4 seam on label, throw like football, stiff wrist. Since Miller didn’t help others learn it and Roger Beshens did, Roger calls it the Roger Beshens Football Slider.
The Sweeper is basically Andrew Millers slider. but if thrown over the top with the same Grip, Tilt and Wrist action it’s just like Steve Carlton and Ron Guidry’s slider decades back.
Was really hoping to make him a Brewer. Pivoting to Ryan Feltner now.
I had no idea Ed Powers was on the Angels training staff. That explains a lot.
I’m waiting for Bauer’s mom to chime in as usual about the Angels signing her son.
Why wouldn’t they sign him?
Why would they?
Because he’d be #3 in their rotation and would cost the league minimum and because they are trying to win now so that Mike Trout doesn’t request a trade.
Fernando — You think adding Bauer to this team will help them “win now”? You realize the team finished 33 games out in 2022 with Shohei earning the MVP as a two-way player, right?
Can’t hurt
MLB pitchers dropping like flies!! All that attention paid to innings pitched and pitch count, etc., and “stretching out” arms, and this seems like the worst year ever. Crazy!
PITCH DESIGN: First of all there are no pitches being designed.
Bauer never created any pitch. When Bauer said he created the pitch Roger Beshens influenced, the football slider in May 2018 to Al Leiter and Pedeo at the All Star game I knew karma would eventually get Bauer.
There would be no pitching lab without the Roger Beshens Football Slider coming out in May 2018. If you noticed 2018 was the 1st year in MLB there was more K’s than hits. If you noticed going into 2018 Cole, Snell FLaherty, Bieber, Giolito, Sonny Gray, and about 60 others starting averaging over a K an IP for the 1st time in their careers.
Where was Matt Blake And Ethan Katz….in May 2018? Matt Blake never played pro ball. If Katz knew the RB football slider before 2018 he would have taught it to Flaherty Fried, Giolito and they would have easily avg over a K an IP.
MLB really lowers it’s integrity coming out with a sweeper and Gyro slider when it’s the Roger Beshens Football Slider.
To make it worse MLB MILB coaches teach the RB Football Slider wrong in many cases and then they take the cutter that has a bad tilt and try to morph it closer to the RB football slider without any regard hurting pitchers arms.
Who’s going to take the blame?
MLB can’t even admit the sweeper is just a RB Football Slider thrown from a lower angle and when thrown over the top it’s a gyro slider.
I’ve always felt that the increase in pitching injuries over the years has little to do with changes in pro baseball and more to do with the overuse of arms in youth baseball.
I personally saw a very promising pitcher destroy his arm because his father (and head coach) overused him on the team and then had him pitch two more games a week for different random travel ball teams. By mid-season, the kid was crying from the pain and his father insisted he stay on the mound. By late season, he couldn’t pitch and couldn’t make a throw from 3B to 1B (he literally had to roll the ball). This was in spite of the father being warned by HS coaches that he was messing his kid up.
Lots of pressure on parents these days to get a kid noticed enough to make a high school team (at least hear in So. Cal). Kind of a catch-22. If you preserve the arm for HS and beyond, they may never get a chance to play HS and beyond.
IMHO, all that extra wear and tear on young arms is leaving them damaged before they ever get to pro baseball.
A smart person would say kid. If your arm is sore or doesn’t feel right rest it. If the kid ruins his arm while knowing this it’s something he will have to live with.
I pitched 50 years ago, All the aces completed their games threw 100-150 pitches easily, Rested the arm completely the next 2 days, if they needed to throw some relief on the 3rd day that’s ok, but on the 4th and 5th day ready to go another 100-150 pitches like clockwork. All this is just common sense. Anyone that throws a 100 pitches or more and is told not to FULLY rest the arm the next 2 days never pitched and has an agenda that’s not in your best interest.
Hey BTS,
Did you know the sweeper is just the RB Football Slider?
If you are trying to make a point. I would suggest saying once, MAYBE a second time. But at this point you have made a mockery of it all. Uttering the same thing over and over just dilutes what you are trying to convey.
New traffiic on here all the time. Good idea to explain so they understand. Mute is always available.