Today: Walker has cleared waivers, and the Pirates have released him, according to his transaction log on MLB.com.
August 9: The Pirates announced they have designated left-hander Josh Walker for assignment. It was reported yesterday that the club would be selecting righty Domingo Germán but they needed a 40-man roster spot. Righty Hunter Stratton was optioned to get Germán onto the active roster.
Walker, 29, was designated for assignment by the Mets a couple of weeks ago. The Bucs then swung a deal for him, sending rookie ball pitcher Nicolas Carreno the other way, but kept Walker at Triple-A Indianapolis. He made one appearance there before landing on the minor league injured list with an undisclosed injury. Injured players can’t be placed on outright waivers and the trade deadline has passed, so Walker will end up on release waivers in the coming days.
The lefty spent his entire career with the Mets prior to the trade. He has 22 1/3 major league innings under his belt with a 6.45 earned run average, 22.3% strikeout rate and 11.7% walk rate. His minor league numbers are more intriguing. Over 2023 and 2024, he has 59 innings pitched on the farm with a 2.59 ERA and 31.7% strikeout rate, though his 13.9% walk rate is clearly on the high side. He will still have one option remaining after this season and less than a year of service time.
Well that didn’t last long.
He’ll go unclaimed & stay @ Indianapolis for backup or next aeason
With release waivers if he goes unclaimed then he becomes a free agent. The Pirates would be able to resign him if they wanted to though
I am not overly excited about German call up. He has regressed and not what he used to be. The guy is going to have a 7-9 ERA with more walks than strikeouts. It’s a disaster to add him to this club when the Pirates are struggling. This will not help matters, but makes it worse
with Keller giving up 7 runs in 4 innings, they need someone to eat some more
Because in typical Pirate offensive fashion, they have already struck out 10 times in 6 inning.
make that 11 strikeouts in 6 innings
Doesn’t matter how, they have no chance of making the playoffs
Doesn’t seem like they have the pen or bats to make playoffs. Not really BC fault. Winker too expensive. Thomas way way too expensive. Randy way too expensive and didn’t have the prospect type. Jazz didn’t have the prospect type. Oakland LA kept their trade chips.
Amazingly after all this losing they are still only 4 games out of playoffs. This is the most brutal part of schedule. In 2 weeks it gets much easier. If they can tread water who knows what happens. 1 month sample anything can happen. Holderman alone is the difference between having the final wild card vs 4 games out. The Cruz Astros game.
why on earth do you continue to defend Cherington, Dream?
Yeah, he couldn’t trade for better available players at the deadline, what is your argument about his failed position player draft picks and his failed player development program in the minors?
They have no ready for the majors position players at any level of the minor league level
And Holderman isn’t the only reason for the loss of playoff potential
Bednar hasn’t been the automatic save machine as in years past and their offense strikes out far too many times during the course of any game to outperform their opponents
16 strikeouts alone in last night’s game
Lastly, Shelton doesn’t seem to understand the urgency of trying to win games. He used exactly zero pinch hitters in last night’s game
You just sleep walk through life or forget everything the next day? I criticize Cherington more than anyone and it isn’t close. I am the one who criticized him on not trading Bednar when majority wanted to extend him. We just had this conversation the other day. What’s my argument on the failed hitting development? I am the one for years who has told you all how bad the development is. Almost everyone else got excited about all the coming prospects. Don’t believe Mendoza was too thrilled. You guys are the one’s defending Cherington. Oh Triolo is good. Haines fixed him. Toe tap or leg kick or whatever bs lol. He was never good. Just the other day I seen talk that Triolo regressed! No he didn’t. He wasn’t good last year. Just simply lucky. Everyone was worried about Endy and Davis both being catchers. I am the one who wasn’t and said well they never taught Davis how to catch so don’t worry about it. You must have me confused with bright eyes or another one of these clowns.
I am really the only one who criticizes. Most of what I see here is just flapping mouth at best to flat out lies. Something needs to have some validity to criticize it.
Shelton should have used pinch hitters. Who? You wanted to pinch hit Cutch with Grandpal so Cutch must not be any good. I disagree. I would never replace Cutch with Grandpal. That would be a awful move. But Cutch isn’t young in baseball years and has played a lot and last night the game was never close to even think about using him to pinch hit. Bae and Triolo definitely can’t hit. I don’t ever want to see Bae Triolo pinch hit for anyone ever. I don’t care what the situation is anyone else on the team is a better option. Extend Shelton now for like seriously 20 more years if his replacement would use Bae and Triolo as pinch hitters last night.
Now you’re making excuses for Shelton. Maybe pinch hitting for Grandal with Cutch wouldn’t have won the game but Cutch had a better game of at least drawn a walk over a player who had already struck out 3 times and apparently outside of Cruz and Bart, no one else did much better than Grandal at getting runs scored
“Lastly, Shelton doesn’t seem to understand the urgency of trying to win games. He used exactly zero pinch hitters in last night’s game”
Again good. Extend Shelton for heck lets do 30 years if his replacement would have used pinch hitters last night. Game was over last night long before pinch hitters should be needed. Bae and Triolo were on that bench. Have you never seen them swing a bat? If I never see them swing a bat again I wouldn’t mind. I don’t want them pinch hitting for anyone unless they start having pitchers bat again. And unless they used a time machine and brought back MVP cutch let the man have a day off. And the only person who is a significantly lesser hitter than him is Taylor. Let the man rest.
You’re down 4 runs, and your team has already struck out 13 times going into the 9th inning, so just use the same hitters instead of trying to get guys on base, only to strike out 3 more times, you’re right, Shelton made the correct decision
SMH
Facing a lefty in the 7th inning and after Cruz hit an opposite field double, you let Rowdy bat instead of using Connor Joe to pinch hit and what does Rowdy do ?
He strikes out
Yeah, Shelton is a genius for not trying to win the game
The game was over last night. Over fast and early. Cutch isn’t much better than Grandpal anyways. And you have the little problem that catchers need rest. It better be a key moment to pinch hit your catcher. That game was over long before. There was no moment to pinch hit. Let Bart and Cutch rest. Cutch wasn’t going to magically win the game.
One week you are criticizing Shelton for not pinch hitting Grandal for Cutch and the next it’s for the reverse. You just enjoying complaining. There’s no reason to pinch hit either of them. Unless you have Soto or Judge on the bench you keep your catcher and dh in the game.
Connor Joe? The Connor Joe with a .169 batting average in June? .212 average in July? .125 in August? That Connor Joe? In spring when he was hitting and Rowdy wasn’t I would absolutely pinch hit him. Right now I don’t see it as being a impact move. I’m not your dream manager though. But seems Joe hasn’t been good for a long time.
Yes. Keep using the same hitters. I don’t care if all 9 guys struck out every time. Unless it’s a monty python situation and guys are missing limbs I don’t want to see Bae Triolo holding a bat.
If Joe pinch hitting is that much of a difference maker then just shut down Skenes Jones right now, increase our draft pick position and put all the focus on 2025.
It looks like the Dodgers got this one. 9th inning down by 4 runs Pirates down to their last 3 outs… Wait a minute folks. Don’t change the channel yet. Shelton’s up to something. Can we get a shot into the dugout. Uh oh. Look out. Joe Bae Triolo are putting their helmets on and grabbing a bat. Dodgers are in trouble now. Checkmate!
Cutch isn’t much better than Grandal? His 14 homers, 55 runs scored, 35 rbi and leading the team in walks says he’s much better than your guy and if catchers need rest why did both play last night?
Connor Joe against a left handed pitcher is better than Rowdy is and what would it have hurt to use him as a pinch hitter against a lefty instead of Rowdy?
It’s unlike of you to make excuses for Shelton
Sometimes your effort of humor can be overwhelming, this time, not so much
I never said that Triolo or Bae would be game heroes but Shelton did nothing to try and win
NOTHING
Bart not only played last night but he hit a 3 run homer. Grandal also played, he struck out 4 times
and I have never suggested that anyone pinch hit for Cutch.
you have me confused with someone else which isn’t surprising. You didn’t even know that both Bart and Grandal played last night
Actually Cutch didn’t play the night before either so giving him a “ day off “ is yet another issue that you are wrong about
But I will say one more thing
Taylor isn’t half the player that 37 years old Cutch is. Taylor
You win Dream, you’re never wrong in your own mind
“and I have never suggested that anyone pinch hit for Cutch.”
You said Grandpal should have and it was only a few weeks ago. I didn’t get you confused with someone else because you are the only person who would have said such a ridiculous statement.
“if catchers need rest why did both play last night?”
Speaking of ridiculous statements. You must be the only person who watches baseball and doesn’t realize that playing dh vs catching is not the same wear and tear on ones body.
“Actually Cutch didn’t play the night before either so giving him a “ day off “ is yet another issue that you are wrong about”
Well not everyone is like Paul Deadpool and Wolverine. Sometimes if you pull something or sore or bruised it takes more than 1 day to heal. And if they were down 1 run vs 4 he might have pinch hit.
You see a backup catcher doesn’t play as much as a dh so the dh is going to have more stats. And Cutch hasn’t had Grandpals poor luck. And Cutch is better. Just not better enough to pinch hit for your catcher in a game with such poor odds to win. If the game was closer than any advantage should be used. But last night wasn’t worth worrying about.
yeah because losing 5 games in a row and now sitting a half game out of last place doesn’t matter
Since he has to go on release waivers, what happens when he passes? With outright waivers, players with little service time generally accept the assignment to keep their extra money, but curious what happens in this situation.
He automatically becomes a free agent and the Pirates are on the hook for the remainder of his salary. He could sign with any team (including the Pirates again) for the minimum and that amount would get deducted from what the Pirates owe.
Thanks
Walker has had his moments, including a near no hitter in ‘21, but was never consistently productive or consistently healthy.
His lefty potential will likely attract another team.
My son and I met him while he was with Syracuse, really really good dude, I wish him all the best and hope it comes together for him
Don’t understand this f….ing team!Need a jolt from anything!
It’s mind boggling that this team is so managed without any sense of urgency or creativity.
I know Shelton doesn’t have much to work with but no one can bunt, he doesn’t call for using a sacrifice to move up base runners, hitting the ball in the opposite direction is rare because most try to pull the ball even on an outside pitch, their fastest player can’t steal bases on a regular basis
And don’t even get me started with the amount of strikeouts they make during any given game
They are a badly flawed organization with badly flawed management
Both of you are annoying come here to read comments and it’s two people bickering like 5 year olds
you have three choices, mustache101
become involved in the conversation by offering your thoughts
ignore the conversation
put me on mute
I suggest, putting me on mute
@the man, not surprisingly, you miss his point. The environment you and a few others have created here dissuades others from wanting to participate.
Oh, before you pull your “I’ve been a fan since 1965” crap, I’ve been a fan since 1962.
maybe if you really paid attention, you’d know that it’s 1966, not 1965 and I don’t really care what you think either, Skeptical
I am not here for your approval
After reading TJ’s moronic reply to a posting about Andujar, I kind of expected Skeptical to come out of the shadows and opine about ruining the environment.
Sadly, no interjection was forthcoming from the concerned citizen of Pirates threads.
How adult of you
I have the feeling you muted me under my old name. Please do so with this one, too
Come on guys.We all knew that this is a flawed team.
Until this bad streak they had had a horrible streak in April but played well otherwise for the whole year.
This is about the toughest part of their schedule.They are hitting better but the bullpen has absolutely failed them.It is a long season.I may not be the best looking guy nor the smartest,but I am very consistent,
Shelton needs to be replaced.He makes too many fundamental mistakes.Not putting in Beeks against Peterson was a move that every high school coach would make.
Shelton was fine for a young team as his players like him and he is patient.
But blaming Holderman for the DBacks loss is a cop out.He must sense that his job is on the line.And to keep on trotting him out when he has Stratton and Nicolas is unacceptable.See if both these guys have the stomach for tight situations.
And pinch hitting using this bench is usually like putting lipstick on a pig,especially in a lost game.
Cherington has done a reasonably good job and is above average for a GM and did as much as he could have at the trade deadline.
But he has not known for several years that fundament development and managing changes need to be made.
Cruz needs to be moved to first base,Davis to right field.Cherington needs to learn to think outside of the box.
And Haines has needed to go as too many hitters have regressed.
It is not pie in the sky to think that this can win the division next year,
But not if cherington or Nutting make serious changes to it.
Stratton was optioned to Indy yesterday so he’s unavailable for awhile
I know that and I do not know who made that change but he and Chapman and Nicolas have all been pitching well lately and should be substituted as the A team in this lost season.
Cherington makes player decisions regarding who is optioned to Indy, not surprising that his decisions have made this pitching staff worse
I wish, at times, Nutting was more involved in baseball operations and had at the minimum, basic understanding of baseball, maybe decisions like this wouldn’t happen so frequently
Paul- I hope that this losing streak finally gets Nutting involved and he fires the right people.
They were not going to win anything this year anyway.
He rightfully gives his GM the power but Cherington needs someone over him and Nutting is too cheap to hire him.
They need to hire a manager who understands how to use a bullpen.The current method is not working and they need a strong manager who is capable of overriding anything that computer is telling him to do.
Hopefully Moreta comes back strong and Carmen and Nicolas improve.They will need someone like Chapman to complement whoever the closer is next year.
And yes Bednar and Holderman deserve to be booed.
Cherington will be getting a extension (another one, you don’t think he gave one to Shelton without being taken care of himself). I won’t be surprised if he gets a fancier title as well.
You guys are just spoiled because you get to talk to a genius like me everyday. But to Nutting, Cherington is the genius. 2nd lowest payroll in baseball and he has similar or better team than 20 teams who spent 2 3 4 times more. When Nutting ask why did we collapse in the 2nd half he just tells Nutting how no one could have seen Bender Holderman falling off a cliff blowing these games. Hey Mr Nutting look at how much $ we make when Skenes pitches. Look at season ticket sales. Look and Sportsnet 360 revenue. What were we talking about before this Ben? Umm the 2bd half collapse Mr Nutting. Forget about the collapse Ben, show me the financials again. Yes sir Mr Nutting.
Yeah. That’s about right. All of it
And new title? Grand Poobah?
When they have another 100 loss season and attendance suffers, Nutting might finally wake up, but it’s doubtful
Nutting reminds me of Art Rooney II, continuing to sign Mike Tomlin to extensions because he’s never had a losing season despite not winning a playoff game in 8 years and not going to the SB in 14 years
He’s willing to pay for BS and how that becomes money in his pocket
If should be changed to unless in the last line
And Miguel Andujar is hitting 291 with a 718 ops.Not excellent,but clearly better than anyone who the Pirates have had this year.
we ( Mendoza, Tired and myself) discussed this often last year when Shelton, err excuse me, Cherington wouldn’t pencil Andujar’s name in the lineup. At Indy in 2023, Shelton referred to him as an “ rbi machine “
So you’d have to question the reason Cherington didn’t want him used when he had far better numbers than any other right fielder at the parent club
Maybe Skeptical of Mustache101 have the answer since at least one has been a Pirate fan longer than me
Tiredolddude here
I questioned the treatment of Andujar throughout last year. In retrospect, I still don’t understand why they signed him. Here is a guy who did everything he was asked to do. Came up the first time, hardly utilized and floundered
Went back down, tore up AAA pitching and did well here
With a gaping hole in terms of both the outfield and run production, it made sense to keep him
When he was sent packing, a number of fans here carped about how he’d underachieved and was too expensive. Sheesh. Does anyone even watch games anymore?
This is a strange franchise
I was pulling my hair out last year in disbelief about how Andujar was mainly ignored by Cherington. Andujar, IMO, didn’t get a fair shot with the pirates…not enough at bats….not enough consistent playing time. BC just seemed to ignore how Andujar continued to destroy AAA. He could have been one of our OF answers all along….had he been given a decent chance. Utterly ridiculous.
Agreed 100%. And you’re right. It was almost as if it was a personal affront that the guy didn’t come up through the system and had to sit and wait as others auditioned for the job
I can’t imagine what was going through Andujar’s head. You tell me I can resurrect my career here with hard work, I do that and show I have some abilities, and you send me packing because I was due a raise. Sheesh
If not bringing Andujar back was financial reasons, he’s only making $1.7 million dollars this season
$2.3 million less than Taylor whoo can’t hold a match to Andujar’s offense and since he also plays third base, he would be a better replacement for Hayes when needed than Triolo
absolutely comical that people are complaining about Andujar. The guy is trash and has been. 250 AB in Oakland means nothing compared to his career
TJ, his stats would be an upgrade here. It’s that simple
You are living in the past. Andujar had no business on the roster after the moves they made. Nothing in his career dictated that he was anything more than a AAAA player. No one could have predicted the regression or lack of improvement of guys like Suwinski or Davis and a host of others. And based on their performance I’d bet that Andujar wouldn’t have excelled either.
Typical of Pirates fans to live in the what if moments.
If you want to look at something look ab BC and ask what did the money spent this off season add to this roster.
And then ask with all of the regression and lack of progression why do people still have jobs.
You must be an occasional reader to Pirates threads to write such drivel. In fact, the insults here border on something between prepubescence and pure ignorance
“Typical of Pirates fans…?” Why not call us “yinzers” and call us “blue collar” if you’re going make asinine generalizations?
On the contrary, Suwinski *never* looked like the real deal last year unless occasional homers mixed with three strikeouts is your thing. Regression? That’s funny
Davis never established the idea that he was going to succeed here. Regression?
The same could be said for numerous other guys who played here last year and showed little. Delay. Joe. Bae. Williams. Triolo. Peguero. Williams. Palacios. Hayes
That you call it regression is hilarious
But thanks for the moronic posting. We get it. You don’t like Andujar.
But it’s ok, TJ. Most Pirates fans have forgotten more about baseball than you’ll ever learn
If we are suddenly following A’s baseball, anyone catch what Bido has been doing?
Andujar, a DH only, with average stats at best, and 50+ white knights on here. Why not Bido, who has a much higher ceiling than a known quantity in Andujar
*has
even more comical that you don’t see how he could have contributed to this mess of outfield decisions
Bucs-I think that Bido had an era of about 5.00 two weeks ago when I checked but has dropped it about 1.00 in the last couple of weeks.
Do you really think that they had the room to keep him?
Do you really think that the last couple of weeks will be representative of his ability?
Do you really think that they had room on the roster for him to start?
As for Andujar,he has been playing the outfield mostly.
His replacement has just been released from the team 40 man roster.How is Andujar a known quantity if no one gives him a chance?
TJ- Do you really thank Andujar is trash or are you making stuff up?
What is your definition of trash and don’t say Andujar.
He was ROY behind Ohtani who has proven to be a pretty good player.
Andujar is no All star but has proven to be a functional MLB player.
Other posters are correct.Andujar was never given a good chance in Pittsburgh.The Pirates have had mediocrity in his place all year.
Senor-Good to have you back.
Hard to see them coming out of this dark period anytime soon as they’re playing playoff-hungry teams. Next up, SD. Then the Mariners
It’s generally accepted that starting pitching kept this team “in it” but these guys aren’t machines. They’re bound to have bad starts every so often. And this group collectively has had just those during this period
It’s a shame. Such pressure shouldn’t be on starting pitching game in and game out and yet, here we are
Yes, here we are
2nd most strikeouts
next to last in batting average
next to last in runs scored
Our hitting is atrocious, EXH are a rarity, they swing at bad pitches and it’s so bad, they couldn’t score a run in last night’s game until the 9th inning when Hayes hit a home run.
They lost to a rookie pitcher and couldn’t muster enough offense to give their best pitcher a victory
As SenorFigs very articulated explained, it doesn’t get much easier over the next few series
They’ve lost 6 straight, there’s no reason to believe they will win enough to be back in competition for a playoff spot
And Martin Perez has a 2.08 era 13 strike outs 0.63 whip and opponents have a .133 batting average against him. #A+ #SanDiegoSkenes #A+
that’s not surprising, many pitchers who were traded from this organization have done better with their new clubs
Dream-What happens when Perez reverts to his norm?
Would he still be an A+?
Joe Cruz put up the same ops. Will be lots of guys you can sign for 1 year few million that put up the same ops. And so what. Not a single team thought he would be anything worth having. Just a waiver claim.
who is Joe Cruz?
very same lineup as last night, which probably means chalking up loss number 6 in a row with a few runs and a dozen or so strikeouts With both catchers in the lineup again the hope is that one doesn’t get injured but nothing is surprising about Cherington and this franchise
How can Shelton keep such amazing bats out of the lineup. Put them in now before they are sent to Indy, dfa or non tendered.
I wouldn’t worry about both catchers getting hurt. What are the odds of that. And doesn’t matter since they have 2 other catchers on the team. Not like our 2 current catchers are throwing out runners left and right.
this season has seen so disappointing with unexpected injuries and player regression, anything is possible
IKF can’t frame like Grandpal but his defense pop time and arm can’t be much worse. Bart would take over though and then you would get your wish of Joe Bae Triolo hitting although it’s probably going to happen Sunday anyways. Ole Sunday lineup rest day. They might get their 1 or 2 hits for the week and you can say see they would have done the same thing 9th inning Friday night. Shelton cost them the game.
Dream- If you think that Shelton deserves a MLB managing job of a good team you are indeed in a minority of the posters on this site.
You’re right, Dream, a few regulars will rest on Sunday because of Shelton’s warped sense of becoming a playoff caliber team and the end results won’t be much better than recent games
But you tell me that continuing to use De la Cruz in right field who has so far been a major disappointment offensively since being traded here, that using Connor Joe in recent games wasn’t worth the risk
I don’t believe that anyone expected De la Cruz to suddenly become the second coming of Tony Gwynn or Kirby Puckett, but instead, his performance has been closer to Josh Van Meter going 3 for his last 33 with 12 strikeouts
Justifying trading for him is nothing less than an act of desperation.
They now have zero chance of getting a playoff spot and will be lucky to finish at .500
And there’s no one in the minors that is major league ready for a promotion that can help them offensively which is pathetic, Five years long time fans of this team waiting patiently for a chance at a championship or even a contender and it’s become apparent that we have to wait at least another year
Cherington and his entire management team deserves to be fired, especially Shelton, Haines and Oscar Moran
No one ever mentions his name but he has arguably one of the best pitching staffs in baseball whatever problems they have had this year, he hasn’t been able to repair them
If he has one of the best pitching staffs why do you think he should be fired? And his name isn’t Moran so that’s why they never mentions it.
Okay, I misspelled his name, woopdy doo
One of the best pitching staffs have gone 1-9 in the last 10 games. No starter has made it beyond the 6th inning and because they haven’t been effective, the bullpen is overworked and by the ignorance of the manager, often misused
If the failure to provide enough offense is Haines’ fault then the failure to pitch quality starts should be Moran’s fault
Oscar Marin is clearly the only one who I would keep.
Have to assume someone scoops him up – he was DFA’d when Pittsburgh sent over a DSL lottery ticket for him, so stands to reason they thought someone else would claim him before their turn came up.
How many prospects do you think we will get when the Bucs trade Skenes? I’m talking just before he is arbitration eligible.
That’s a valid question? maz, however if Cherington is still the GM, and with the current player development system, will those prospects mature into major league caliber players or ruined due to incompetence?
Granted Cruz was obtained by way of a trade when he was a top prospect, but he has too many deficiencies that by now should have been worked out and hasn’t
None. Before arbitration will be 2025. Teams won’t empty their farm system for him. #RebuildIOver. Gotta keep selling the idea that we have Skenes and it’s time for this team to win! Best to get full season ticket package but even partial package will guarantee you playoff tickets!!!!
another performance by the 21st century Slumper Company
5 hits through 7 innings and the lone runs created by the oldest player on the team, a player many who post here were against bringing back for this season
And if they can’t find a way to come back, it will be #6 losses in a row
Even worse 9 out of last 10 or something
I’d love to be involved in front office round table talks. (From a baseball perspective, I’d be the smartest guy in the room so I’m not counting on an invitation)
When the topic comes round to “Where do we go from here?,” I’d love to hear the geniuses describe the road forward.
Yes, “the rebuild is over”
Now what?
Just like you can’t get excited about 20-9 or 11-4 starts, you can’t panic about losing 9 of 10. But let’s be real. This team has a lot of problems, no matter the record
Not many smart people in baseball period. No other team in baseball wanted Joe Bart. Obvious sure thing proven mlb players and no one seen other than Pittsburgh. Examples from other teams too that Pittsburgh didn’t see. Pittsburgh is one of the better teams at recognizing talent. Since I am the only one giving A+ you guys don’t see it but it’s true. Every single year they sign a old soft tossing lefty for peanuts who ends up traded to a contender. Santana was traded and Rowdy easily could have been to if they sold. They have someone who knows something. Don’t have anyone to develop hitters though. Don’t have anyone in the pr marketing departments.
Going forward is going to be the same thing. They bullpen as is isn’t good enough for a serious contender but not bad enough to replace. You hope they get better next year. Still should sign a couple guys. Same rotation will be back next year. Same lineup other than 1b and cf. CF doesn’t hit market often and when it does it’s expensive so don’t expect anything exciting there. 1b you have Walker I guess but you think they pay for him? Bring back Rowdy or does Santana have another year in him! Reynolds Hayes Cruz Gonzales IKF Cruz Bart are locked in. Only upgrades will come from whatever you can get out of Jack Davis Endy Yorke Cook. Depth will be excellent next year. They had a fantastic draft. If they really start developing this franchise could be something.
If this current team had a strong bullpen it has a playoff spot. That’s what it comes down to.
Bart became a Pirate only because they knew Davis and Delay weren’t the answer behind the plate and when Bart became available they took him
That said, I had to laugh at your comment that Pittsburgh is one of the better teams at recognizing talent
Michael A Taylor, De la Cruz and Suwinski suggest that you’re wrong
Let’s start with the problem of the offense
After 118 games, the team remains near the bottom of almost every offensive category and they have not improved during any season under the tutelage of Andy Haines
But it’s not just the fault of Haines, Cherington supports Haines’ approach. What does that say about the GM?
Being a General Manager doesn’t make you a hitting guru
Then there’s Derek Shelton, a player’s manager. He should not be a manager that caters to the players’ deficiencies.
Cruz not hustling
Hayes antics with pumpkin seeds and pocketing his phone
Tellez admiring what he thought was a home run and instead was a double because due to lack of hustling
None of these players have ever been disciplined which might suggest there’s more in the background of the players’ antics that the fan is unaware of
His mishandling of the bullpen.
Dream makes a valid argument that no matter what inning Bednar pitches he’s likely to give up runs. In last night’s game he pitched into 2 innings. Shelton had other choices during the game that could have prevented Bednar from having to pitch beyond the scoreless 9th but Shelton never thinks outside of the box.
Why did Nichols only throw 3 pitches before being replaced by Chapman for the 8th inning?
Nichols has pitched multiple innings before in other games.
Knowing that now your bullpen selection is becoming short on pitchers, and that Bednar has been struggling, why not alter your routine and allow Nichols to pitch the 8th and if necessary, the 9th, if he’s on his game and use Chapman only if necessary or in a save situation?
“Michael A Taylor, De la Cruz and Suwinski suggest that you’re wrong” Only in your mind. Anyone who knows the slightest bit about baseball would disagree with you. Cruz hasn’t played enough to even judge yet. I will take his 4 seasons 500 games with a over 700 ops bs what 9 or 10 games as a pirate. Guys 27 years old so I doubt he fell off a cliff yet. They traded a no power 1b and a A ball pitcher who had arm injury. Basically got him for free. Those types of prospects are for trading and they won’t buy you anything more than Cruz. Mets gave up a better prospect for 2 months of Winker and Cruz won’t be a free agent until 2028. Suwinski was the 2nd tier prospect return for a no power 2b. Marcano was the headliner. If Jack never made the show you would think nothing of it as those types of prospects often don’t. Not only did he make it but he was good. What he did in 2023 alone is a success. Then Haines thought he could make him even better!!!! Kevin Kiermaier 0.5 war signed by Toronto for 10m Dodgers traded for him. Yes one of the world series favorites traded for him. Taylor 4m 1.2 war better stats than KK just as good defense and over half the cost. 1 war is worth between 6 to 10 million depending on who you ask. 8m is pretty much the universal standard. Runs prevented are same as runs created. Taylor was a hugely successful signing. Just because you don’t understand baseball doesn’t make players bad. You been watching since 1966 but you haven’t been paying attention. World series contenders would love to have Michael A Taylor on their roster.
Not Oneil Cruz, De ls Cruz, the player we traded for from the Marlins
If he’s so good why is he only 3 for his first 33 plate appearances with the Bucs including 12 strikeouts?
And I do understand baseball
Taylor is an offensive hazard, and not in a good way
If WS contenders really loved to have him why wasn’t he offered a contract before ST started this year? No one was interested enough to make an offer, except Cherington who signed him right before ST began
Because it’s baseball. 33 plate appearances is absolutely nothing. You can go hitless or hit .500 and it doesn’t mean a thing. It’s a game of peak and valleys. If you don’t have many slumps you are a HOF. Cruz is not a HOF.
If no one wanted him they would have got him in a minor league contract or league minimum wage vs 4 million. He wanted 8 figures and multiple years and held his ground to get them and other teams went with players who weren’t insane. Anyways the music stopped and he needed a chair. Happens all the time. Just ask the Boras clients from last year.
Here’s 72 plate appearances of Triolo .350 .458 .567 1.025 He’s a all time great!
I just posted a month sample size of Grandpal the other day where he was hitting 300 something.
Perfect one right here. Hayes has 33 appearances this August and believe it or not had 33 in May.
.290 .333 .387 .720
.103 .182 .138 .320
If Cruz is still awful in June 2025 let me know and I will look into it.
Jack Suwinski had a batting average of .333 with 8 hits, 3 homers, 6 RBIs and 5 runs scored in 8 games between July 2, 2024 and July 9, 2024
#JackisBack
Opps
#JackwasBack
Wow. Take a screenshot or for my friends grab your Polaroid camera. This doesn’t happen often. It’s like locust or eclipse. But YourDreamGM was wrong. Cruz is a HOF.
Bryan De La Cruz had a batting average of .361 with 13 hits, 2 home runs, 7 RBIs and 4 runs scored in 8 games between July 22, 2024 and July 31, 2024
Or was a HOF until we got our Haines on him.
My apologies Paul. I used to make fun of your small sample sizes. Now I realize how fun they are. I believe I read somewhere that people are huge fans of our bickering. They are in luck as I see lots more entertainment for them in the future.
good, De la Cruz had a hot streak for one week this season and with the Marlins. He hasn’t done anything for the Bucs especially during games where offense was badly needed
I remember last week you saying that Grandal was better than Cutch and even before BC signed him that you were against it
When is the last time any other current player hit 2 homers in the same game? And the fact that he each against a righty and a lefty makes it even more impressive
Grandal is a switch hitter, he’s lucky to get a hit period
I do enjoy our banter though so keep it coming, Dream
If what you say is true that WS contenders would love to have Taylor on their team, why didn’t one make an offer at the deadline?
Somewhere above, you say that you’re sorry to TheMan3, that he doesn’t know baseball
No, Dream. I’m sorry. From a dinosaur perspective, the facts bear out what the game in and game out eye tests bear out.
Any amount of statistics and analytics you throw out make the conversation comical. We might as well be talking with bright eyes. Dear God
TheMan3 simply relates what many Pirates fans see. It is a bad team, with a roster full of players who are average at best. Their record is exactly what I’d expect. I was right with my prediction last year. I’ll be right this year. And as they hit Bradenton, I’ll be right next year.
And the funny thing is, I don’t need analytics. Or useless statistics that try to tell me to not believe what I see
They are who we thought they were
As for the comments of “Skeptical” about “ruining the environment” here, who cares? Really, who cares what he thinks?
I never said that
Umm Pirates at the deadline where going to contend and play October playoff games. Trading your starting cf would be a bad idea for achieving that goal.
Numbers and data don’t lie. Your eyes can. Just google draft busts and see how many peoples eyes where wrong.
Apples and oranges
Let’s use Suwinski as an example
Analytics guys like you and bright eyes want to tell me had All Star credentials last year. In fact, he and Joe were Cooperstown bound
Real baseball observers would laugh at that
This is a small microcosm of the problem
And for every “bust” you say can come from the eye test, I can likely name 10 guys you and bright eyes have listed as good-to-great and ate nowhere near either in any regard
All too often, these are guys who are on the Indy shuttle. Or should be
“Anyone who knows the slightest bit about baseball would disagree with you.”
Apologies
Intimated.
You aren’t a baseball observer then. Everyone in baseball sees the value of platoon players. Contenders where buying them left and right at trade deadline. Been that way for decades. It’s nothing new. You might see it soon though. Few more weeks of being a vip might unlock that ability like it did for Paul. He seen how valuable Jack was last year. He no pounds the table yelling why didn’t Shelton pinch hit with Joe? The only reason he is here is so he can hit LHP! Paul was by far as old school as it gets but you over taken him.
Paul even gets a lil carried away. Down 1 run you absolutely replace Rowdy with Joe. But down 4 you just give the guy a day off. Joes better but not drastically better. And Joe’s been awful every month other than April May.
263 .356 .431 .78 Joe
232 .307 .384 .691 Rowdy
Baloney
Cmon, Dream. I like your insights but there are times when you employ some weird mix of pretzel logic and sarcastic wit that’s hard to decipher.
There was never a day that Suwinski was all star caliber.
The badge means nothing to me, btw. I just wanted to show some appreciation for the staff that writes for and maintains this site
He had a 800 900 ops. That’s what all stars have. Sometimes they sneak it with high 700s. He was a easy all star if he could have hit LHP at even a near average level 650 would have done it.
IF
IF
Every major league player is an all star IF….
Now you’re thinking like Shelton. Good work. Let’s improve him so he can hit LHP as well. Time to get our Haines on him.
Where me and bright eyes realized that majority of pitchers are right handed and we have a perfectly fine Joe for the lefties.
Please excuse me while I go and pound my head off the wall a few dozen times.
Paul-Fine post.
My only nitpick in defense of Hayes is it was Castro with the cell phone.
A++++ post.
I’m not competing for any position except for offering my opinions and while they may not be correct, they are still valid in my beliefs
But when I am insulted for having beliefs other than yours, the banter between us becomes stale
just random thoughts here
thanks, Mendoza
Like Bright Eyes, and while he often downplays his love of numbers, Dream thinks that analytics and stats are the end all
Let me say this; I like Dream. I like the insights and humor.
But I would challenge Dream and Bright eyes to a challenge. Those two on one side with their iPads, me, TheMan3 and Mendoza on the other. Give us a group of “blue chippers” to review. Buccoprojectory comes along to tell some stories, jokes and to laugh about Shelton
I say that our side has the proper projections as the players progress
I say the “analytics are facts” crowd place way too much credence in their numbers and don’t begin to tell the actual story
Bednar blew yet another save opportunity. How many of these will the worst manager in baseball allow before removing him as the closer?
Chapman should be the closer
It’s mind boggling how incompetent Shelton is but it’s not surprising
And Bednar not only blows the save but loses the game
Thanks Shelton, you don’t deserve to return as.manager next year
At this point, there really isn’t any reason to comment. It’s the same old story on all fronts, from on field play, to managing, to the front office and owner
I’m looking forward to the off season, when the GM brings in more Taylor and Grandal types and the owner tells us again that losing is unacceptable.
At this point, you just have to laugh. Oh, and apologies to those that feel this type of posting hurts the “environment” here.
if these types of comments hurt the environment here, count me in the effort
Instead of blowing games in 9th he will just blow them in 8th. Are they going to give Chapman another 10m? If not he is gone in 45 days or so.
Fans insisted on having to extend him. He’s amazing Pittsburgh guy. Can’t trade him. Then they boo him in Spring and boo him now. Fans are mindless beast. They don’t know what they want. 20 straight years of losing they kept going to games and paying their cable bill. They traded Cole and Cutch and same thing. Would have been easy to trade Bednar. Nothing will stop Pittsburghers from handing over their $ to Nutting. Rebuilds over, you don’t have any impact bats, your only impact player in your 20th at best farm system is a raw just turned 18 year old that if developed will be here in time for Skenes Jones Keller to be leaving. But we still have our are amazing bullpen Bednar and Holderman.
Shelton said that they are right in the mix for the last playoff spot and because of the starting pitching and bullpen they have lost 8 one run games of the past 11 played
If you’re losing by one run the fault can’t be blamed solely on the pitching but this is yet another example of management covering up for the worst hitting coach in the league
Either Shelton is delusional or just a great con man who believes in job justification.
Dull, lifeless team that’s fine with losing
Well they are right in the mix, to fight for last place between the Reds and the Cubs
Last place is a familiar spot for this team under current management so it shouldn’t be hard getting there
Yeah, agree. Fans are fickle. I don’t cheer players per se. I don’t boo them, either. Those boos of Bednar were sickening, to say the least
My only problem with your thoughts here come down to paying for tickets and cable subscription packages. Please know that I agree with you 100% but that PG investigative piece 3 years ago blew the roof off of the franchise’s financial picture
I’m betting Nutting could care less about attendance as it’s one of the lower tiers of revenue stream
It’s a sick joke with built in blame games of small market and smaller ballpark
If he didn’t care about attendance he wouldn’t be spending $ on fireworks and bobbleheads to increase attendance. Wouldn’t spend $ on advertising. You can trust a newspaper or open up your eyes. From what I see he cares a lot. Tons of stuff for the kiddos. Even have their own day. Gotta brainwash them young.
I should have quantified my comment. “Doesn’t care” should have been more reflective of revenue streams. Facts are facts and to call investigative reporting “ fake news” usually colors the individual who’s being featured in the report. In this case, it’s yet another tomahawk thrown at the “small market” baloney. Open up my eyes, you say? That’s hilarious
No, Nutting doesn’t have the deep pockets of Dodgers ownership nor will he ever justify being about to spend in such a manner as the return will still entail a huge loss. That’s understood
I had to laugh at your rendering of fireworks, kids days….you forgot pierogi races
I think what the Pirates have done with Miracle Fields in the area—made for handicapped kids— is tremendous
I’m not disparaging any of that. It’s incumbent upon any owner of a professional sports team to be a civic leader and upstanding citizen. Nutting has done that. This isn’t about personal issues. But open your eyes and understand marketing and public service costs as opposed to what we’ve been discussing.
Twins − $124,077,590
Royals − $115,257,261
Reds − $106,441,547
Brewers − $105,833,094
Tigers − $103,834,833
Rays − $101,023,112
Marlins − $97,227,400
Orioles − $94,520,400
Guardians − $93,333,629
Pirates − $85,760,000
Athletics − $60,503,298
So at best they could have spent another 10 to 20 million. Not moving the needle. They need another 100 to 200 million. Tigers Twins fans should be outraged. They aren’t small markets and have people who care about baseball. When I see Cleveland Cincinnati Milwaukee KC spending 200m I will get more outrage.
What name did you hear all off-season pirates fans say they wanted to sign? Hoskins. Go back and look. Well there’s your 20m more. I’d rather Nutting bank that 20m than pay that for a dh with his numbers. Hopefully he builds another field or something with the savings or funds player development. If you want Hoskins we just got 2 of them in Cruz and IKF. Bellinger was the other name but he would have been way over budget but just as wasteful.
But if that 20 more million is so important to fans I have a solution. Fans just need to fund a bigger ballpark so the Pirates can have more revenue. Skenes pitching on a weekend could pack in 50 60 k but pnc will only hold 40. There was lots of Yankees Mets Phillies etc fans left out because pnc was built when baseball wasn’t as popular. Really short on suites as well. And you have to get rid of the Penguins to eliminate spending competition. Problem solved. Become a 2 sport town and give Nutting a few more billion for a new ball park. A dome would really help that April May attendance. I think we can get payroll up to 130 and can get a Hoskins Bellinger. Walker will be the big one next year. We need a stud 1b. Just look at his stats! Just don’t look at his birthday!
Yeah, I get all of that
I’m going to refer you to your dissertation on the Pirates approach using the TB blueprint and ask the question, again:
What happens when only 75% of that blueprint was successful?
Oh and what happens when the guys in your pipeline were overestimated?
You see, adhering to the blueprint is nice but watching it flourish is something different. Given where they are, it won’t.
So what do you do?
Lastly, I realize that the Pirates aren’t likely to sign a big fish although you named a couple who would turn this franchise around and aren’t named Soto
But collectively, what did they spend on Chapman, Grandal, Taylor and Tellez last season? Rhetorical question. The money should have been spent on a stud run producer
What did they spend on Hayes to be the cornerstone? Lack of foresight, no?
“So what do you do?” Nutting. If you can’t even follow a proven blueprint it’s hard to come up with something different and expect it to be better.
It should be called the Pirates blueprint. They inspired many things front offices do today. Indians gm seen all the great players just leave for nothing from the early 90s team and said I’m gonna extend my guys early since I can’t compete once they become free agents. Rays 1st year was 1998. 1998 the Pirates traded Rincon for Giles then Giles for Bay. Pirates have been using this blue print for 25 30 years. They traded Denny Neagle before Rays even started playing baseball. After they were one of the best teams in baseball and just let Bonilla Bonds Drabek go for nothing they didn’t let that happen again or at least to that level. 2010s they just kept trading closer for closer for closer. Before 1990 it didn’t really matter. Free agents got paid millions. There wasn’t mega tv deals. Once guys started making 10s of millions it’s team friendly extension or trade before free agency. Problem is I only have 1 successful trade chain. Rincon Giles Bay. No idea who they got for Neagle Martin Young Kendel I think he was a bad contract salary dump so that’s another problem. You can’t extend everyone so best to avoid catchers relievers. I was a kid and not even a Pirates fan but in 30 years all I can come up with is Giles Bay. I know they had some pitching in there somewhere. You can’t miss that much. Cutch extension for Reynolds extension. Beautiful winning moves. Cole for Musgrove for Bednar Endy. You can’t win them all but wow this franchise was awful before Nutting. Pick any 3 years from 2012 to present and you will find more winning trades and signings than the previous 20 years.
Only thing they can do is keep trying. Revolving door of coaches. Take a chance on younger ones. Eventually you will have enough good ones. Even keep hiring fired guys and give them another chance. Just don’t keep them around forever. Produce results or get fired. I wouldn’t have thought about firing Shelton 2 weeks ago. #1 thing a manager can do is keep the clubhouse positive and have a team play for him. Only thing Shelton does well. Only thing that matters. Analytics determines the lineups and pitcher usage. But if this team doesn’t come out of this it might be a good time to bring in some fresh blood. Players liked this guy and our poor play got him fired. He probably gets another year though. Don’t see how Haines does though but didn’t see how he was back this year. If I was owner and Shelton Cherington wanted Haines back I just fire them all. Players go out of their way to tell you Haines didn’t do anything to fix them. How’s this guy still here?
“But collectively, what did they spend on Chapman, Grandal, Taylor and Tellez last season?” 20m or so. Great spending. Everyones calling for Chapman to close. Closer is well worth 10m. All those players are surplus value contracts and necessary.
I ask every year to fans give me names. I know most to all of those names will be negative contracts. You can’t even get a 1 year contract anymore. Most teams will give player options. So if that player is awful or hurt they opt in for year 2 and 3. Best to avoid free agency. Stick with the lowest tier free agents like they have and hopefully should and they probably will. I want the 1 year under 10m guys. Only difference makers will come from farm and trades. No help coming from free agency.
Pirates Charities’ funding of the Miracle Fields for handicapped children isn’t solely paid for by Nutting. Money is raised through private donations but Nutting sponsors it so he gets the credit
I am not taking anything away from him, he’s a good civic leader and is personally involved with this charity.
In years passed, he would sponsor Pirates Charity night during a home game. People would have a choice of purchasing several backpacks they contained Pirate souvenirs, signed baseballs, one by a current player and one by a former player, a signed home jersey by a current player and other Pirates related items.
Last year, the PC game promotion consisted of only limited selections with no souvenirs and Pirate related items.
This year, that once annual promotion doesn’t even exist anymore
In years past, there would be 5,000 backpack selections and they would be sold out quickly
I know this because every year I would purchase the backpack, the one that offered a signed home jersey of a current player of the charity’s choice
It’s not scheduled for this year and my question is why?
The donations primarily paid for everything inside of that backpack and was a promotion that put fans in the seats
Your plan will have them running in place for years to come. That’s fine
I’m ok with a .500 team
But to watch them continually go this route and tread water?
You can’t get blood from a stone
I understand how poorly Shelton has done. I understand how Haines shouldn’t be coaching high school players
The fault here lies first and foremost with the front office. Who they’ve drafted. Who they’ve traded for.
I was a lifelong coach/manager. I get the role good instruction and tweaks play in the success of perspective players. But at the end of the day, the athlete has to have the talent, too
What happened to the coach that fired Hayes’ approach to the plate last year?
And was very successful to boot, Hayes went on a tear the last 6 weeks of the season
Oh that’s right, he was fired
Or the coach that Cruz hired personally?
This franchise doesn’t want anyone outside of both the organization or the major league staff to be coaching any players’ offense
One reason why BC defends Haines is because the coach is instructing players in the manner that BC approves of.
Since when did Cherington become a hitting guru?
You make it sound like Nutting pays for the cost of the bobble heads, T shirts and other promotional items completely by himself
Each promotion has a sponsor that contributes to the price
It’s good to read some positivity after having to read you Debbie downers everyday.
“We’re still focused on one thing, and that’s winning as many games as we can, making every effort to make every game count between now and September,” Cherington said on his weekly radio show on 93.7 The Fan. “We still believe it’s possible that we can push ourselves into October. We understand where we are in the standings. I believe this team is capable of going on a really good run still ahead of us, but we all know that talk is cheap. We’ve got to go do it.”
he’s so focused on winning that they’ve lost 7 straight games, their hitting hasn’t improved and their closer continues to blow leads and games
And I actually agree with BC, talk is cheap. And it’s called Nutting and his baseball staff
Positivity?
From the guy who has disdain for news organizations comes this pearl of wisdom
Really?
You must be a fan of press releases.
Or “press conferences” where the individual doesn’t really answer questions but tells you instead what a wonderful guy he is. To ignore what you see and hear
Sorry Dream, but you’re bordering on bright eyes territory these days
Mendoza Would get it if he wasn’t busy watching his beloved Phillies.
Dream-If you are saying that analytics dictates every batting and pitching decision,then the GM should be fired before the manager.
Analytics has to be based on data that is real and current to the day.
Trotting Holderman and Bednar out in this losing streak and keeping the other pitchers to less than an inning or an inning at most has absolutely been disastrous during this losing streak.
Klentak got fired in Philadelphia partially for being that stupid.
A veteran manager would never take that crap and that is what the Pirates need.
Wow, on another Pirate thread, and just today, Dreamt denied ever saying that Shelton used analytics to construct his lineup but regardless, Shelton is using his infamous Sunday lineup in today’s game, resting most of the regulars and against former Pirates pitcher, Martin Perez
If they lose to him today, someone should lose their job