The Orioles are parting ways with three coaches, per Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com on X. Co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, bench coach Fredi González and major league coach José Hernández will not return to the club in 2025.
Fuller, 34, was an internal promotion. He was hired by the O’s in 2019, working as a minor league hitting coordinator. Going into the 2022 season, Fuller and Matt Borgschulte were announced as co-hitting coaches, with Borgschulte coming over from the Twins.
The results have been pretty good under those two, though this year ended on a bit of a sour note. The Orioles hit .255/.321/.421 for a 105 wRC+ last year, 12th-best in the league. They were actually better in 2024, slashing .250/.315/.435 for a 115 wRC+ which trailed only the Dodgers and Yankees.
But that season-long performance came despite a mediocre finish. The O’s hit .238/.307 /.395 over August in September for a wRC+ of 102. They were then swept out of the playoffs by the Royals, losing two straight games in the Wild Card series while scoring just one total run between the two contests.
Separating the contributions of a coach from the performances of the players is always tough, but it seems the Orioles have decided to make a change. They haven’t made any official announcement, so perhaps Borgschulte will take on the hitting coach job by himself, though it’s also possible further reporting will emerge in the coming days to provide a clearer picture.
González has been with the O’s for the past five seasons, getting hired prior to the 2020 campaign. He was given the nebulous title of major league coach but was given the bench coach title two years after that. Prior to joining the O’s, González had worked for the Marlins and Atlanta, working coaching jobs and as manager for both clubs. Hernández played in the majors from 1991 to 2006, suiting up for nine different clubs. He joined the O’s as a minor league coach in 2010 and worked his way up to the majors for the 2019 season.
Andy Haines is looking for a job
Man3…if all these teams that made the playoffs and had winning records. If they can fire coaches and managers. Why can’t the pirates get rid of the Moron? My gut wretches everytime I hear this morons name. Wretches almost as bad when I hear the name Donny gassolini, the poop in his diaper guy. And thinks he’s a founding farter
With all the injuries, the guys that were healthy were pressing at the plate. It was pretty obvious.
That said, it was also obvious that opposing teams figured out the team’s approach at the plate. Both attacking the zone, and staying out of it, at the right times to keep the Os hitters off balance and guessing.
Thats normal I’d say, but what was troubling the last two months was the lack of adjustments seen. They just stuck with it, keep being aggressive at the wrong time, and patient when they shouldn’t have been.
You’d expect these talented young hitters to develop a little faster at the ML level.
I can’t count the number of players, coaches and analysts who never stop reminding us that baseball is all about making adjustments. Perhaps the team decided that Fuller didn’t promote the correct adjustments or any specific adjustments at all. If you’re keeping one hitting coach and letting the other leave it’s difficult to take a different message from the move.
Baseball IS about making adjustments. Analytics is about continuing to do the same thing because the data says so and we cannot deviate from the plan.
Analytics is about seeing what adjustments need to be made and knowing that before your opponents can see what you are doing.
Sadly, most people have no clue what the technology and data crunching that are part of the analytics departments of a major league team.
Analytics, at its core, is a way to find undervalued players so the teams with smaller payrolls can compete with the larger payrolled teams. Once everyone started using analytics, now it’s the norm and here we are with payrolls again. Until teams start realizing drafting and promoting from within is also part of the equation, no amount of number crunching is going to right the ship. The Giants just fired an analytics guy because of it. Any other reason to use analytics is just an offshoot of the original idea.
HR RSox. teams bring in coaches, teaching what some paper pusher wants, which is more of the same.. Launch angle at swing at most everything. Gone totally is the old Hriniak approach, which believe it was Fever alluded to few weeks back and led to multiple players with patieant and higher averages than anyone in today’s game will ever dream of accomplishing, what it didn’t focus on was sacrificing everything for power, the all important aspect of so many supposedly in charge of what has gone wrong.
How long it will take before it’s proven this entire analytics aspect was wrong and time wasted is the good question. Pencil pusher jobs will be lost in abundance and those kinds will not/do not take kindly to being forced out of invented jobs, even if to the better of whatever it is they are being ejected from.
johnsilver:
Agree about analytics in so far as what was the result (and they lie).
However, do not confuse that with Statcast data such as breaking the strike zone into component spaces. Then tracking the balls movement from the pitchers hand, and especially as the pitched ball approaches the plate – how it moves in the zone. From there it tracks where on the ball the bat hit it, where on the bat the ball was hit, and the entire swing the batter put on it. Speed of the pitch and spin rate are also tracked.
Not sure if that is lumped into the analytic category or not. But it’s been common practice for some time. Pitching coaches, batting coaches, and FO analysts are looking at that stuff constantly to work with their pitchers and hitters and hopefully maximize their production.
Correct Samuel. Changing from mistakes made, not adapting everything done to a set way regardless. totally different.
“Analytics, at its core, is a way to find undervalued players so the teams with smaller payrolls can compete with the larger payrolled teams.”
No, it isn’t. You are describing Moneyball. Analytics is just analyzing data to improve your team’s performance, either via adjustments or signing players.
“Until teams start realizing drafting and promoting from within is also part of the equation,”
Every team knows this. Find me a team that doesn’t have several home-grown players on it. Even teams with a lot of free agent signings like the Dodgers have guys like Will Smith, Gavin Lux, and a boatload of home-grown pitching.
Every switch to a full on analytics approach started with Moneyball. Moneyball was the shining example of going in a different direction than the norm. Disagreeing with that is just arguing for argument’s sake. DePodesta found a better mousetrap, yet no one wanted to commit to it fully until Beane came along. In short, yes it is.
Every team knows this, yet not every team is set up for years because why? The kids they draft aren’t as good as other teams kids. Because why? Because they’re not as good as they think their numbers are or say they will be. The numbers don’t change from team to team, the weight you give those numbers does. At some point you gotta look at your people already in those positions and drafting those kids. No amount of number crunching can improve that when you’ve got numbers telling you what to do in an analytical world and you’re drafting RH power hitters to play in a Chicago White Sox dungeon. Humans continue to play the game and, again, at its root, numbers can only suggest. A hardcore commitment to them is a recipe for disaster. Molding a team is much more than finding the best player if that best player only plays 80 games that season.
Its somewhere in between.
Obviously, analytics has a place in the sport. It proves it belongs. Earl Weaver was a pioneer of it with his index cards and platoons – and look how successful his late 60s to early 80s teams were. Then its taken off from there in the modern era.
But I think its got to be a balance. No amount of analytics would have ever made me MLB worthy. The natural talent, the ability to effectively hit a 95 MPH ball moving at an ellipse or being able to throw one like that – always has to be there.
Oscillating wildly from all analytics or all “know how” won’t be the solution. The team that can best balance it will prove to have the most long term success.
Nope. Analytics at its core is a way to quantify what works best in that moment in a constantly evolving and adjusting sport. To recognize both the tactics and the strategies that will best help players perform and teams win.
That you think moneyball is analytics shows a disturbing lack of understanding of the depth and breadth of the analytics that teams are gathering and utilizing today.
Launch angle started being taught by Ted Williams. He understood that the ball is coming DOWN so the best approach is for your bat to approach the ball on a bat path that is going UP at the same angle.
No it didn’t. Since the 1940’s there have been people charting pitches and keeping notebooks full of data. What changed was the technology.
Its not a coincidence that the 4 teams left in the playoffs have 4 of the 6 largest analytics spends and departments.
Injuries didn’t have a big impact on the Os inability to hit with risp most of the second half. Westburg was a huge loss when he was out, but all the other guys just didn’t hit clutch.
Agreed, the clutch factor also disappeared. Could you attribute that to pressing? Not sure, but it had to have factored in.
Also, I don’t have the numbers to back this up, but they really struggled to score runners from 3rd with less than 2 outs and also advancing a runner from 2nd to 3rd with zero outs. I get it, the lineup is built around power, but when things aren’t working, you have to make adjustments. As someone who watched more than 95% of their games this year, I didn’t see much in the way of adjustments especially in the 2nd half.
It would not surprise me to see some news in the coming weeks that Adley had some sort of surgical procedure(s) done. Something wasn’t right with him.
Ana Lytics. I dated her mother back in college. Math major. A little intense on the details of every little thing but overall fun times.
“…the clutch factor also disappeared…”
skinsfandfw;
Brings up a big problem I’ve had with the analytic guru’s.
Since they started looking at data they deny that “clutch” exists; as well as believing that a batter hitting behind another batter has an influence on the pitches the first
batter sees. That is simply nonsense.
s/b “has NO influence”
agree with 92% of what you’re saying. Disagree with enough to post my rebuttal:
If I’m struggling to land a slider, I’m still gonna throw it in a 3 and 1 count if a weak hitter is behind him and not worry if I land it as opposed to throw a fastball cripple just to not walk this guy.
Samuel: also, if your comeback is, situations call for pitches moreso than who is on deck, then we can agree. My point is, sometimes, I do look at who is on deck.
halloffamernobodycares;
I’m not sure where you’re coming from.
The key to hitting is getting a pitch to hit. What that means to me is a pitch either over the middle of the plate, or near it. Pitches that nibble at the 4 areas around the strike zone are more difficult to drive.
As long as there are umpires they’re going to miss calling pitches. What the pitcher-catcher tandem is looking at in a game is how inconsistent the umpire is, and whether it’s OK to nibble – forcing the batter to hit a pitch that’s hard to drive. But knowing that the batter(s) behind the hitter can mash, and depending on the score and inning, the tandem may well chance throwing a ball in the hit zone rather then risk an umpire calling a few pitches wrong and putting that batter on base for the good hitter behind him to drive in.
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For years it was known that the lead-off hitter saw the best pitches. Why? Because the next 3 hitters coming up behind him were the best the team had that day. So no pitcher wanted to give him a free pass, and threw the ball over the plate to make the batter hit his way on.
All that has changed. Now teams put a masher in the lead-off spot. He gets more PA’s and still has quality hitters behind him, so he gets decent pitches to drive (hence all the game opening HR’s).
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Batters hit outrageous amounts of foul balls, to: 1) Run up the opposing pitchers pitch count, and 2) Hoping for a “mistake”” whereby the pitcher leaves the ball over the plate. ALMOST ALL ML hitters can drive a ball that’s over the plate. This is why you’ll hear broadcasters say: “He got a great pitch to hit but missed it” when the ball is in the zone for whatever reason.
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The analytic breakdown of what sorts of pitches is an entirely different thing. It’ll show things like: “When the pitcher is behind in the count with runners in scoring position he’ll throw his X pitch 62% of the time”. No batter can remember that crap.
But Baltimore fans assured everyone they were the next dynasty. Trouble in paradise already? Lol Orioles
They definitely have a good young core of players. Pitching was inconsistent and they had some key injuries. 2025 is going to be a toss up for them depending on how free agency goes, obviously Burnes is going to get paid and if they lose him then they’ll have some work to do.
Find me another team that would perform better after losing 4/5 of a starting rotation, a shutdown closer and multiple lineup regulars for months at a time.
turnbuckle: I’d rather be Baltimore than the White Sox. Both are sitting at home but both are in vastly different stratospheres when it comes to potentially being contenders next year.
even the mighty Yankees have lost world championships
dynasties aren’t constructed in one season.
How many times did the Patriots make it to the Super Bowl before they became a dynasty?
Because they probably are. They suffered more injuries than any team in baseball this year and as a result the season was a massive disappointment. But they had 91 wins in a worst case scenario, brutally painful season. That’s a franchise in better position than 28 or so of their rivals.
@danumd87: “They suffered more injuries than any team in baseball this year and as a result the season was a massive disappointment.” The Atlanta Braves, their IL stints, and their 89 wins say ‘Hi.”
Baltimore was 22nd in days lost to injury. Another way to say it is they were the 8th healthiest team by days lost to injury
They lost a total of 17 guys to injury. That’s tied for 6th fewest players lost to injury.
You can blame youthful inexperience for any perceived failures if you wish, but not injuries.
I’d like to know where your data comes from. By my count the O’s lost Bradish, Wells, Means, Kremer, Rodriguez, Webb, Coulombe, Perez and Bowman from their pitching staff for no less than a month each. Add in Bautista for the whole season as well. From position players Mountcastle, Westburg, Mateo, Urias, Hays and Kjerstad for IL visits just as long. I don’t argue the head count — I just don’t see how their days lost count is that low with that many guys missing a month or more..
Pretty soon though, the salaries for these players will be through the roof, so they really need to capitalize now in case they can’t keep one of Adley or Gunnar. They should load up like hell on pitching and go all in, not make these stupid trades for players like Trevor Rodgers and whoever else they put in their pen.
Been an Oriole fan since 71. True fans don’t over estimate their teams. I knew we weren’t there yet and may not be next year. You must of heard that from an oriole troll at your annual meeting
Thanks for the tip. I’ll do a better job of vetting at our next meeting.
I don’t remember Baltimore fans saying that. I did as a Ranger fan though.
That should fix the problems…
Would be great if Brady Anderson could fill one of the O’s coaching vacancies.
Only if he comes with his little Drs kit filled with steroid injections.
He got fired from the head office by Elias. Buck Frady Anderson. Roider.
Brady Anderson’s 50-homer season should be stricken from the books. Absolute farce.
Worst GM in the league, he should be canned. Did absolutly nothing at the deadline. A disgrace to the fans
Just completely ignore the prior 5 years of the rebuild for a terrible trade deadline. Hit on more draft picks than anyone in last 5 years or so. Tore up a terrible organization from the top down and looks like theyve built a consistent winner. Hardcore recency bias but hey go mets!
Another clown comment from a goon without a brain in his skull.
Him and Metsin4 are just trolls and morons.
Exactly. They do a hit and run with some stupid comment and laugh as everyone loses their minds.
How long before Fredi is hired as a special assistant in some FO?
Or take the White Sox manager job with Sizemore as bench coach.
Good call
I’ll take Fredi or Grady. Maybe, just maybe the two together create some structure next year. The bar is low…
Old school and a younger coach which can relate to young players on the same playbook. I think it could be a good fit until Sizemore gets more seasoned.
Yeah. I don’t know what he did wrong unless he was just there until Hyde got his sea legs . And I would think Fredi is an old school eye test guy not an algebraic manager.
Maybe Don Mattingly wants a new challenge
Not a huge surprise on the hitting coach. Fredi likely was a needed change as well since he had direct access to Hyde who forever tips his bullpen management.
Was thinking a change at infield coordinator was needed as well with Mansolino. Gunnar made way too many errors this season. Would love to see a big name, steady name come in and take over as IF coordinator in the form of JJ Hardy, Brian Roberts, etc.
It’s very possible Hyde is managing for his job this season depending on the moves the offseason yields.
Someone on here said it was hitting coach guillotine month or something like that. 9-10 hitting coaches have met their demise, but only 2 managers. The guy that set the team hitting philosophy, the MLB manager, is still there, but the guy whose job it is to put that into action has been chopped. Never understood that one.
@Pads Fan: Not sure MLB managers “set the team hitting philosophy.” Seems that analytic driven Front Offices and mil development coordinators are the voices in that area now.
Just going off interviews I have read when hiring was happening for managers and in the article they mentioned that the manager sets the team philosophy from hitting to pitching to culture.
I am quite sure some GMs, like Cashman and Friedman and a few others, set the philosophy for hitting and pitching, but would have to have a manager that agrees or it would not be very successful.
MiLB coordinators have very little to do with setting philosophy for an organization. Their job is to carry out the organizational philosophy so that when called up those players they are teaching mesh with the MLB philosophy. You can certainly tell the teams that don’t do that well. White Sox would be at the top of that list.
Hyde is not a great manager and shouldn’t be mentioned with Tito.
VA/NC Orioles;
Hyde is one of the top-tier managers in MLB. He’s been with Elias and Sig from day one. They talk daily. I doubt his job is in danger.
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Most pro sports franchises (and even in individual sports) use a tailored TQM – Total Quality Management process. It’s based on breaking processes down into components, and then having a Continuous Improvement cycle for those components. They will never reach perfection, but they are trying to get as close as possible. The moves we’re seeing the past week from franchises that are out of the playoffs are simply because the goals the individual franchises had for some of their coaches areas were unacceptable. Turning over a manager is big stuff. Brendon Hyde did a great job, and like Terry Francona, if he leaves he can come back to another team whenever he wants (and Francona would never have even considered the Reds if he didn’t think they had a group of young player that were ready to win).
I get it. Each org has an evaluation process. I thought it was cool they gave him a shot to guide the ship post-rebuild. He’s been given 2 shots now with 0 wins to show for it. This year I understand it more than last as he was crushed with injuries but it’s time to put it in gear and play for blood. Hoping for some decent pitching moves and a return to form of the younger players. Believe the hitting philosophy is stale and they were exposed at end of season. Playoffs they had a horrible player approach, especially with runners on.
@VA/NC
I can get the frustration. I actually promised myself that I’d stay away from this and other sites until the swelling on my heart subsided. I broke that promise already. lol.
“He’s been given 2 shots now with 0 wins to show for it.”
If a manager gets blamed for what happens at the plate in the off-season… then he should also get praised for the production during the season. as much hot air has been blown about a failure to adjust in the 2nd half… Hyde can’t win at all in many fans’ eyes. I don’t know how you can single out single at bat, or one single player even as the reason why things didn’t turn out as they might have. the post season is a crapshoot as we see with the Mets and even the Phillies..
Hyde has been fine to me. probably not a HOF mgr (this far) but hardly a bum. juggling the infield that went from overflowing in talent to a hospital ward as well as patching together a rotation and bullpen… maybe he gets a little too cute by half in matchups but they do work often.
let’s hope this is a wake up for the entire org that we need some more pieces and that’ll cost some money. I am hopeful that the new ownership can see that where Johnny Boy did not.
Go O’s!
Coach Hyde is a keeper. Follows directions from the Warehouse and puts them in to play with the players the Warehouse has given him.
No indication he lost the locker room during the 3 month swoon. Impressive. If anything; at some point he may trade in his dugout uniform for the kaki pants and polo shirt scene across Eutaw Plaza.
What does the major league coach do?
Jose Hernandez was also an interpreter.
@Ranger Danger19
No clue. We talk about all the greats of the past but none of them really had coaches until the 60s. How did those greats become so great without coaches?
Because the level of competition and level of performance wasn’t close to what it is now.
@Canuckleball
How do you know?
Every sport has athletes these days who are far faster, bigger, and stronger then ever before. In past generations, guys in locker rooms smoked, drank, and ate poorly, and then went out and played ball.
The finite differences between athletes at the highest levels nowadays requires constant assessment. We measure things in tenths and hundredths of seconds, fraction of inches, the narrowest of margins.
60 years ago or more, the best guys were the ones who were the least fat (aside from the Babe) and most willing to put in some effort.
Okay, so no data. Thanks…
You need data to know the level of performance is higher now than in the 60’s? I’d ask if you’re blind but you can read so that rules that out. Slow then?
text to read lol
& then went and worked in the steel mill or as a plumber in the offseason. Sports were much different…..
Brickma on line 1
… stupid comment
Think a hitting coach needs a little more experience .
Why hire all these people for fluff positions? Just too many voices in the players ears, keep it simple. Just like how these teams have a million tiers of their front office. Have the GM be the President and work in lockstep with the coach and owners.
Fire Fredi!!!
Few comments on the coaching decisions
1. Fredi Gonzalez- welcome to Baltimore Buck Britton. Norfolk manager considered a rising star. He was going to wind up on some teams coaching staff eventually. Might as well be Baltimore.Stinks for Fredi but he will wind up somewhere. If the White Sox keep Sizemore he would be a good bench coach
2. Ryan Fuller- they only let go 1 coach so don’t expect a massive change in philosophy. Just a few tweaks. Don’t think it’s all the fault of Fuller. Maybe they do away with co coaches and have a head hitting coach and and an assistant coach. Important to remember whoever the hitting coach or coaches are in Baltimore has to be on the same page as the coach at Norfolk. And Bowie and right down the line. Not as simple as hiring Brady Anderson. Because then you have to change all the hitting coaches in the organization.
3. As for Jose Hernandez not sure why he is being let go. Possibly they have his replacement already picked out and decided to make a change now. Like most of these moves
I noted that whenever a player talked about a successful swing change it was often along the lines of “found it with Borgy in the cage” or “Borgy made a suggestion” – never Fuller. So, I think there may be some merit to the idea that Borgschulte resonates better.
joey ortiz, , connor norby and Stowers say hi… maybe read news a bit from the last 9 months before posting
Matt Borgschulte is the best hitting coach in the league. There was a weak link so he’s gone. Now they have to negotiate the full time role for Borgschulte while I’m sure other teams are calling, too.
For the most part, this has been one of the most thoughtful and insightful threads I’ve seen in a while. My thanks for a good read.
My own thoughts:
1. Brandon Hyde – Remember, this is the same guy who lost 100 games in 2 of his first 3 seasons (the one in the middle was COVID). People wanted him gone then. Was he that bad then? Is he this good now? I think he’s somewhere in between, as in, he doesn’t make or break the team. IMO I think he over-relies on the numbers and creativity is lost, so there’s a tendency to get into a rut.
2. Firing the coaches – often this is a “circling the wagons” move that is done in the NFL when the head coach thinks his seat is warm. I would think that’s the case. I think there has to be postseason success in 2025 for Hyde to be back in 2026 – the expectations are that high now.
3. Clutch hitting. I remember reading a SABR study long ago that it didn’t exist in the long term, though in short bursts it appears to be valid. In fact, only one player had beaten the stats long term – the Orioles’ own Eddie Murray – and even he fell back under the line coincidentally when the Orioles stopped being competitive in the mid 80s (though in pennant races after the study in 1990 and 1995 he was hot to scorching hot in stretch runs). Its possible the law of averages caught up with this year’s team in the latter part of the season and playoffs. However, if you learn to work the count, take walks, hit singles when that’s all you’re given instead of swinging from your heels all the time, advance runners…all of that reduces reliance on that clutch home run. They need to mature as hitters – collectively.
This year’s team was the bizarro 2012 team – remember that team won 93 games when it always seemed to get the timely hit and had an absolutely ridiculous 1-run record.
So I will wait the winter with a little more patience than I usually have to see what the new ownership group will allow in terms of getting the starers it needs to take away the margin of error to always give the offense a chance, and what it will do to retool and make the most of its roster spots.