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Mets Sign Griffin Canning

By Anthony Franco | December 18, 2024 at 9:45pm CDT

The Mets finalized the signing of right-hander Griffin Canning to a one-year free agent deal. The Wasserman client is reportedly guaranteed $4.25MM and could make an additional $1MM via incentives. Canning would unlock $250K bonuses for reaching 22, 25, 28 and 31 starts. The Mets had four open roster spots, so no corresponding move was necessary.

This will technically be Canning’s third team of the offseason. The Angels dealt him to the Braves in a one-for-one swap for Jorge Soler within hours of the trade market reopening. As MLBTR’s Steve Adams pointed out at the time, Canning wasn’t a lock to stick in Atlanta for more than a few weeks. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projected him for a $5.1MM salary in his final season of arbitration eligibility. The Braves balked at that price and non-tendered him, affirming that the trade was about shedding the final two years of Soler’s contract.

That made Canning a free agent for the first time in his career. The 28-year-old heads to Queens and should compete for a rotation job. Canning has over five years of service time and cannot be sent to the minors without his consent. He’ll be on the MLB roster in some capacity, though it’s possible he’ll be pushed into long relief to open the year.

A second-round pick out of UCLA in 2017, Canning immediately became one of the Angels’ better pitching prospects. He profiled as a quick-moving college arm who had a chance to land in the middle of the rotation. Canning reached the big leagues within two years, but he’s had an up-and-down career. He posted a 4.58 earned run average over 90 1/3 innings as a rookie. His best season came during the shortened 2020 schedule, as he turned in a 3.99 ERA through 11 starts.

That remains Canning’s only sub-4.00 showing. Opponents tagged him for a 5.60 ERA across 14 MLB appearances in 2021, leading the Halos to option him to Triple-A. He landed on the injured list almost immediately with a stress reaction in his lower back. That carried into the following year and cost him the entire 2022 season.

At the time, it looked as if injuries could derail his career. The back was the most severe, but he’d also battled recurring elbow soreness early in his career. Canning has fortunately managed to stay mostly healthy over the last two seasons. He landed on the injured list twice in 2023, though both were minimal stints related to minor leg issues. Canning avoided the IL entirely this year. His effectiveness has waned, however.

Canning pitched to a 4.32 ERA across 127 innings two seasons ago. This year was a struggle, as he allowed 5.19 earned runs per nine over a career-high 171 2/3 frames. His strikeout rate plummeted to a personal-low 17.6%, more than eight points south of the previous year’s 25.9% clip. The walks ticked up a couple points while his swinging strike percentage dipped from 12.8% to a league average 11% rate.

The stuff also took a slight step backwards. Canning averaged 93.4 MPH on his four-seam fastball this season, a tick below the prior season’s 94.7 MPH mark. Opponents teed off on that pitch, connecting on 16 homers with a .529 slugging percentage. Canning features a fairly typical four-pitch mix (fastball, changeup, slider, curveball) and has intermittently looked like a fourth starter. The Mets will try to help him find that form more consistently.

Canning becomes the third potential starter whom the Mets have added via free agency. They went to the middle of the market for upside plays on Frankie Montas and Clay Holmes, the latter of whom will stretch into rotation work after six seasons as a full-time reliever. Canning doesn’t have the same ceiling — hence the far lower price tag — but aligns with New York’s seeming preference for stockpiling depth.

Montas, Kodai Senga, David Peterson, and Holmes should all be in the Opening Day rotation. Canning, Tylor Megill and Paul Blackburn would vie for the fifth starter job as things stand. The Mets could prefer to run a six-man rotation. Senga was limited to one regular season start this year by injury. They’ll need to closely monitor Holmes’ workload so he doesn’t fatigue. Blackburn finished 2024 on the IL and underwent a postseason spinal surgery that could delay him in Spring Training.

The Mets could use at least another mid-rotation arm to solidify that group. They’ve stayed in contact with Sean Manaea since he declined their qualifying offer. Various reports have cast them as a long shot to land Corbin Burnes, but The Athletic tied them to Jack Flaherty and Nick Pivetta (each of whom remains unsigned) during the Winter Meetings. Adding another starter would allow the Mets to push at least one of Canning, Megill or Blackburn into a multi-inning relief role.

RosterResource calculates New York’s salary commitments and competitive balance tax number around $255MM. Owner Steve Cohen has been comfortable pushing their CBT number well beyond $300MM in previous years. There’s little reason for him to pull back now that they’ve landed Juan Soto. For now, they remain in the lowest tier of luxury tax penalization. They’re taxed at a 50% rate on spending between $241MM and $261MM, so the tax hit on Canning is $2.125MM. That brings the investment to $6.375MM before incentives.

Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic first reported the Mets were signing Canning to a $4.25MM deal with $1MM in bonuses. The Associated Press reported the incentive specifics.

Image courtesy of Imagn.

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New York Mets Newsstand Transactions Griffin Canning

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Post a Comment

290 Comments

  1. Yankee Clipper

    6 months ago

    That doesn’t sound like Corbin Burns…..

    24
    Reply
    • Bivouac-Sal

      6 months ago

      They don’t know the difference.

      5
      Reply
      • NYCityRiddler

        6 months ago

        Cohen, has finally sobered up & looked closely at the Soto contract, “Stearns, Stearns get in here!” Ahahahaha!

        10
        Reply
        • LETS GO METS/JETS/KNICKS

          6 months ago

          And you are a fool

          2
          Reply
        • deweybelongsinthehall

          6 months ago

          A lot of money given his body of work. Explains the problem of automatic raises through arb. If he has a similar year, he’ll be looking at a minor league deal with an invite.

          Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        6 months ago

        Better than Burnes. The short term deals is where it’s at for pitching. 1b outfield as well.

        1
        Reply
        • NYCityRiddler

          6 months ago

          No, but you just bought a one way ticket to the Enchanted Kingdom. See ya!

          Reply
    • metsfan69

      6 months ago

      Better than devin Williams

      3
      Reply
    • Rexhudler86

      6 months ago

      @yankee clipper. That’s trash canning 4.25 million

      7
      Reply
    • Salzilla

      6 months ago

      The Pitching Lab is cooking!

      5
      Reply
      • Salzilla

        6 months ago

        Just in case there was any confusion, this was a joke. I do not believe in the Mets Lab…

        2
        Reply
    • cooperhill

      6 months ago

      Burnes is staying in Baltimore, and he’s much better than Cole.

      1
      Reply
      • cwsOverhaul

        6 months ago

        What hotel?

        11
        Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Hilton Inn Baltimore Harbor?

          Reply
        • Perksy

          6 months ago

          I thought Corbin Burnes played 3B for the Cleveland Indians

          7
          Reply
        • Krlnd

          6 months ago

          Perksy, funny reference to Corbin Bernsen in Major League!

          3
          Reply
        • chalk73

          6 months ago

          Stayed there once, overlooks the stadium.

          1
          Reply
    • SteveFinleyEnthusiast

      6 months ago

      I was saying “Boo-urns”

      5
      Reply
      • Krlnd

        6 months ago

        Haha – great Hans Moleman quote, Steve Finley Enthusiast!

        4
        Reply
      • User 4014041831

        6 months ago

        I Demand that you let my employee Die with Dignity!
        He’s costing my Healthplan a Fortune!

        Accidental Radiation exposure isn’t all Bad
        I present my proof A Fish with 3 Eyes! He looks happy.

        1
        Reply
    • vtadave

      6 months ago

      Burns?

      Reply
      • Yankee Clipper

        6 months ago

        Typo, BurnEs……… BURNES I tell you, Burnes. I have ostracized myself from myself for one month as punishment for my error.

        I mean, what’s it matter…. The guy doesn’t even have a job!

        Reply
  2. BaseballBrian

    6 months ago

    Second.

    1
    Reply
  3. Redstitch108* 2

    6 months ago

    Canning is a home run machine. Good luck.

    6
    Reply
    • M.C.Homer

      6 months ago

      Red, he’ll surely be solid now that he’s rid himself of that big A on his forehead

      2
      Reply
    • Goku the Knowledgable One

      6 months ago

      He’s not on the Angels anymore, so will immediately reach his full potential and not flop

      3
      Reply
  4. Cambo

    6 months ago

    I give Stearns credit – he sure does sign a lot of dudes.

    8
    Reply
    • YankeesBleacherCreature

      6 months ago

      …To minor league deals. This is one is a bit of a headscratcher at that guarantee and this time.

      11
      Reply
      • User 4014041831

        6 months ago

        Competition for a roster spot in Spring training is not necessarily a bad thing

        Reply
      • Goku the Knowledgable One

        6 months ago

        While extremely unlikely, 4.5 could end up being a huge steal for this guy

        2
        Reply
        • Rexhudler86

          6 months ago

          @goku. I’ll bet Hendricks will have the better year for 2.5 million.

          1
          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          6 months ago

          Yikes

          Ok ill take that bet ez

          Reply
      • dugmet

        6 months ago

        I mean, eating $4m is not difficult.

        3
        Reply
    • mahalkita

      6 months ago

      Duds*

      2
      Reply
    • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

      6 months ago

      Uncanny signing for Canning

      4
      Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @Cambo As a Mets fan, what’s most refreshing about Stearns’ game as opposed to the first three years of Cohen owning the team and the lack of high payrolls to leaven the Wilpons’ ineptitude after the 2008-2009 crash, is how quickly he cuts bad players. Teheran got 2.2 innings with the 2024 Mets and never got another chance even with the Mets iffy rotation in April. .

      Contrast that with the 17 starts van Wagenen permitted Matz, Gsellman, and Wacha in 2020, constituting almost 30% of the Mets starts during the short season—or how Alderson in 2018 left Jason Vargas and Corey Oswalt start 32 games while putting up ERAs of 5.77 and 5.85..

      The Mets went 77-85 in 2018 despite deGrom putting up a 10 WAR season, despite getting 4 WAR each from Syndergaard and Wheeler, getting a 5 WAR season from Nimmo, 3 WAR seasons from McNeil and Conforto, and another 17 WAR from assorted useful players.

      Their bad players though, were horrendous, contributing what might be a record negative 12.7 WAR from THIRTY players incapable of being as good as replacement level (0.0 WAR).

      Say what you like about WAR’s various shortcoming, it offers a powerful snapshot here of a team with one of the worst front offices and team owners in baseball, a gang that couldn’t keep two-and-a-half dozen players off the field who ranged from inept to genuinely awful.

      Put freely available AAAA talent on the field instead of that group of 30 miscreants and instead of going 77-85 the Mets would have gone something like 90-62 and had they made the postseason would have gone into it with a rotation of deGrom, Wheeler, and then-prime Syndergaard. Salt in Familia and Lugo both having good years at the back of the pen and while they probably wouldn’t have gotten past the Red Sox, they would have been as good as anyone in the NL

      All of which to say Stearns did a good job getting players off the roster who couldn’t contribute at least a little something . It’s about time someone in Queens figured that out—even an average GM like Alderson didn’t seem to have any idea of the importance of every last roster spot.

      14
      Reply
      • geofft

        6 months ago

        Stearns did say that last year… everybody looks for the improvements to the high end players. But you can also improve the team by improving the floor.

        4
        Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @geofft I hadn’t heard that but that fits his game to a T. (Or is it “tee”?) Zack Short got 12 PA, didn’t have it, and had to go elsewhere. Joey Wendle got $2m (so did Garrett Hampson–why Stearns didn’t sign GH when both he and JW were available will remain a mystery until Stearns’ autobio comes out), just wasn’t enough, and was moved off the roster after 37 PA.

          If Stearns keeps Wendle on the roster so he doesn’t look like a PBOPs who just wasted two million on a decaying 34 yo, he doesn’t cycle through Zack Short and Wendle as quickly as he did, he doesn’t bring up Jose Iglesias.as soon as he did, and who knows how the season plays out?

          2
          Reply
        • geofft

          6 months ago

          @ JackStrawb Yeah, Stearns says a lot of insightful stuff ou’d never see/hear unless you watch his interviews in their entirety. Some of what he says is too abstract for the reporters, let alone the average fan to grasp, so it never winds up in the sound bites or articles.
          I seethed over that Wendle signing, and frankly, I thought Stearns stuck with him too long. If Wendle gets only the minor league deal he deserved, they open the season with Short and Iglesias, and we might not see Wendle until mid-season, if at all.

          2
          Reply
        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          6 months ago

          You guys are definitely delving into the arcana lol.

          Reply
  5. websoulsurfer

    6 months ago

    $4 million for a replacement level pitcher. That is interesting. I guess Stearns thinks his pitching lab can fix him.

    11
    Reply
    • sad tormented neglected mariners fan

      6 months ago

      Have no idea what his role would be on the Mets

      4
      Reply
    • i like al conin

      6 months ago

      Yeah perhaps. He does have durability with 171 IP last year so he’s at least a depth piece and long RP with 5 years MLB experience.

      6
      Reply
  6. 10centBeerNight

    6 months ago

    Can never have enough arm depth.

    2
    Reply
    • SecondDoug

      6 months ago

      He certainly has an arm.

      5
      Reply
      • Stan "The Boy" Taylor

        6 months ago

        He has two arms. Mets getting a bargain.

        23
        Reply
  7. Sunday Lasagna

    6 months ago

    Three team trade, the Angels get Soler, the Mets get Canning and the Braves get……to trade to get Soler back for a 3rd time in August.

    If Canning has any success for the Mets it would sure make AA look poorly in releasing the return for Soler.

    4
    Reply
    • sad tormented neglected mariners fan

      6 months ago

      Joc pederson sign with Atlanta so that he can be a lot worse than 2021!!!

      Reply
      • spooky

        6 months ago

        Joc is busy hiding from Tommy Pham

        4
        Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      The Braves are about the last team in baseball I would have expected to make a deadline move for Soler with 2-1/3 seasons left on a 3/42m contract. 1/12m during the 2023-24 offseason was about all he warranted: Replacement level from 2020-2022 and his 2023 saw marvelous luck on fly balls (even then he can’t manage to put up a 2 win season) so the Giants give him 3/42m, the Braves bail the Giants out, then the Angels bail the Braves out?

      WTH?

      2
      Reply
  8. Miken31

    6 months ago

    Unless he’s going to be part of the bullpen, I don’t get it. I don’t understand how even with a six man rotation it is acceptable to have Holmes, Montas, and now Canning as part of a regular starting rotation. I’ve been a defender of Stearns and his pitching plans, but I really need to see how the rest of this plan plays out.

    4
    Reply
    • Raymond Flagstaff

      6 months ago

      I was unaware stearns needed defending

      5
      Reply
      • Miken31

        6 months ago

        Raymond Flagstaff:

        Welcome to the Internet. In case you haven’t paid attention at last two off seasons, Stearns hasn’t gone big into the starting pitching market. It worked very well last year and I’m impressed with that. However, I know many people would like to see a little more certainty in terms of rotation arms added.

        3
        Reply
        • geofft

          6 months ago

          We’d all like to see more certainty at some point. But that certainty doesn’t have to come in August. And frankly, we didn’t have any real certainty last opening day.

          1
          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Geofft:

          Perhaps, but you can’t assume what’s going to be available the trade deadline and you don’t know what that’s going to cost in terms of prospects. The off-season gives you the opportunity to buy players without having to give up prospects.

          1
          Reply
        • geofft

          6 months ago

          Lol, my bad… I don’t know how ‘August” got in there. I meant to say December. there’s still two plus months left in the off season.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          6 months ago

          It’s a great year for free agent pitching. Canning has upside. You need 8 or 9 starters to make it through the season and their farm isn’t there yet. Losing draft picks stink. Burnes bad investment if over 200m.

          1
          Reply
        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          Oh and here i thought u were an armchair warrior

          1
          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Well, you thought wrong. I give my opinion here like everyone else does or else what’s the point?

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Oh, OK. I got you. Yes I agree. There’s a lot of off-season left. I’m just a little anxious about how the rest of it might play out.

          Reply
        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          Did you not get the sarcasm?

          Reply
        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          If your anxious how the offseason may play out maybe u need a hobby

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Raymond Flagstaff:

          I need italics or different font then for sarcasm! Lol sorry no I didn’t pick up on it. my bad.

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Watching sports is my hobby… Is this more sarcasm?

          Reply
        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          Nah just imagining u getting an ulcer over this stuff lol

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Not an ulcer exactly… Perhaps an early heart attack

          1
          Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @Miken31 I think it’s much more likely Canning is currently penciled in as the #9 starter and as more probably a MIRP candidate, with Megill and Blackburn currently SPs #5 and 6, Sproat is perhaps #7 only on the basis that they want to give him more time in the upper minors, and someone like Tidwell is occupying the #8 slot.

      And that’s BEFORE Stearns adds at least one more starting pitcher, presumably a TOR, unless there’s some sort of Manaea plus Pivetta parlay in the works. My guess is they were stunned by what the Red Sox were willing to give up for Crochet and didn’t want to lop off three of their top 5 prospects including Sproat to make it work, and are now scrambling.

      (If Cohen forces Alonso on Stearns instead of a TOR for 75 to 95% of the AAV, at least we’ll know who’s still playing GM.)

      As it stands for now the Mets don’t have more than four starters they actually want making starts for them as of Opening Day, and Canning has not increased that number.

      The lineup is also iffy at the moment after Lindor, Soto, and Nimmo. I’d assume Vientos is due for some regression though his improvement looks generally solid. Still, that’s not quite half a lineup. Alvarez has yet to hit for more than two weeks twice each season, while McNeil could all too easily put up another 97 OPS+. The Mets won’t get much hitting from their CFers. And with Vientos presumably moving to 1B, who’s on third—Mauricio? He’s far from a sure thing, but he’s also a far better risk than spending $200m for the 31 year old Bregman.

      Half a lineup suggests a splurge for DH, or some combination like Christian Walker at 1B and a serious bat at DH with Vientos remaining at 3B where he’s bad, but no worse than Alonso’s been at 1B. Hard to see otherwise how the team is a serious threat—either the pitching or the lineup has to take a big step forward this offseason, and is Mauricio at 3B with Vientos going to 1B the only place they’re going to give a prospect a shot? Seems likely. It’s almost too bad Acuna had a great 19 PA when he first came up, given we’ve had to listen all offseason to 12 year old fans waxing about how he’s the ‘2Bman for the next decade.’

      3
      Reply
      • geofft

        6 months ago

        @ JackStrawb Poignant as usual, for the most part, a little harsh in some places. Your lineup analysis closely resembles what I’ve been thinking. I think the offense from the catcher position is at least league average for catchers, and even close to league average overall. Siri seems like an apt replacement for Bader, only younger, faster, and a better defender at this point. A Taylor/Siri platoon could also produce league-average offense.
        There are multiple competent options still on the market for 1B, most for shorter terms and less money than Alonso. That leaves Vientos at 3rd, with support from a yet-to-be-signed veteran UT while Acuna and Mauricio continue to work on things in the minors, which is where they belong right now.
        You’re right, they’re not a serious threat. Nor do I want them trying to be. The minor league system still has holes, and building it is being handicapped by the penalties from this overspending. Its going to take a few years for that to be corrected. But for now, I’m content to see them moderately competitive while they work towards getting the organization’s foundation healthier.

        3
        Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @geofft Fascinating perspective. It’s rare this offseason to hear the authentic analysts on this site preferring to do other than spend big chunks of Cohen’s money on 30+ year old All Stars at every position.

          It makes sense not to, though, for reasons you note.

          Departing players took roughly 16 wins with them, knocking the roster down to a projectable 73-89 record in 2025 (fitting both their actual and their Pythagorean records) prior to additions including farm promotions—and payroll at that point was already something like $168m for LT purposes prior to adding players. That’s a LOT for a 73 win team. Now with Montas, Holmes, Soto, and Canning payroll is roughly $255m according to Roster Resource and the team is projectable to around 83-84 wins.

          So… now what? Adding Burnes and Bregman bumps that projection to 90+ wins but it’s going to be ugly in a few years. The nucleus is already old as nuclei go, and from the group of Lindor, Nimmo, Diaz, Senga, and McNeil, it was only Lindor’s brilliant year that brought the return anywhere close to the investment.

          Either way, it’s going to be interesting. After getting Soto I’m thinking the aim has to be around 90 wins. How Stearns figures to get there, though, I do not know.

          2
          Reply
        • WadeBoggsWildRide

          6 months ago

          Excellent read at 3am

          1
          Reply
      • Wagner>Cobb

        6 months ago

        Seems likely that they let Pete leave unless its a super friendly 1-3 year deal that has an opt out. I think everyone is planning on bringing Vladdy into the fold next year.

        Reply
  9. VonPurpleHayes

    6 months ago

    I remember not being impressed with the Mets rotation last year, and that worked out for them. So, I’m not going to judge.

    They have depth now, but they’re missing a true ace.

    9
    Reply
    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      VonPurpleHayes:

      I totally agree with what you’re saying. Last year I was very down on that rotation going into the season and they turned out to be much better than I thought it would be. I just don’t know if they’re going to the same well again and hoping things work out or if they really know what they’re doing grabbing these guys off the scrap heap. I’m willing to give Stearns the benefit of the doubt, but I definitely want to see more certainty in terms of arms added to this rotation.

      4
      Reply
      • Samuel

        6 months ago

        VonPurpleHayes & Miken31;

        David Stearns one of the smartest baseball Ops heads in MLB. When he was in Milwaukee they constantly had good pitching that got better as the year went on. He knows how to bring in coaches and develop both pitchers and catchers especially.

        Depth Charts don’t work anymore; especially looking at them in the offseason. The Mets don’t need to win April and May. They want to win in September and October. Like a horse race, the objective is to stay with the pack going into the stretch run…..then turn on the afterjets.

        If Canning and others he’s bringing in work out…..great. If not, obviously there will be other pitchers he’ll acquire during the season right up to the trade deadline. And because the Mets owner could are less about paying any “penalties” in a professional sports league that has a broken salary structure, if they need to acquire 2025’s version of Verlander and Schurzer come the trade deadline, money won’t be a consideration.

        1
        Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          6 months ago

          I like Stearns a lot, but realistically, these bargain pitchers aren’t all going to work out. The Mets hit on almost all of their starters last year. I’m not willing to bet that happens again. I still think they get a front-end pitcher for some more reliability.

          5
          Reply
        • Lalo says show me

          6 months ago

          Mets are really banking on similar luck to last year with respect to the pitching.
          The difference is sevi and manaea showed periods of sustained success prior to their signings, so while it was fortunate to get very solid/good years out of them last year, you could see it.
          With guys like canning and montas, a signing I really hated, it’s really testing what they think Hefner can do for them. I don’t see it.
          There’s still a lot of offseason left, but I’m really not liking the direction of the sp. I get the depth and going to a 6 man rotation, but middle of the year, I don’t want to go into a series with the Phillies or dodgers or Braves and have montas, canning, magill lined up.
          This was why I didn’t like the Soto signing. Yes cohen is stinking rich, but he would have been better suited spreading that money out. And the Mets have no left handed pitching other than peterson. They desperately need someone in the pen. Scott would be ideal, but I don’t see that happening right now.
          It’s a weird offseason so far getting the prized free agent, then signing a bunch of maybes with him. I do like the Holmes signing, but even that you just don’t know.

          Reply
      • JackStrawb

        6 months ago

        @Miken31 Thing is, Montas, Holmes, and Canning aren’t “scrap heap guys.” They’re all currently somewhat undervalued and the Mets needed to fortify the back half of their rotation. They’re doing so with the first two names with pitchers who could easily put up league average numbers–better in Holmes case. For the price, when ordinary guys like Taijuan Walker and Jameson Taillon going into their 30s were getting 4/72m and 4/68m, that’s phenomenal.

        The thing to keep in mind is the paradigm shift. The better GMs usually aren’t looking to fill five (or six) rotation slots so much as they’re assembling pitching staffs that can give them 162 starts of a certain quality.

        The downside to Stearns’ approach might be that he’ll tend to come up short in the postseason, but for all we know they’re high on Senga returning to form and still have plans to lock up a TOR as well.

        It may also be the Mets FO recognizes that with so little help at the moment from the farm, it’s impossible to build a true WS contender without hamstringing the team with a half-dozen 34 year olds in steep decline and a combined salary of $150 million a year in 2028 if they try to build that WS contender now and necessarily almost exclusively through FA..

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          I think it’s semantics as to what a “scrap heap guy” is. Certainly there are guys you can pick up on minor league deals who aren’t expected to do anything. That’s certainly a scrap heap guy. But I do consider Severino and Manaea last offseason to be somewhat scrap heap guys coming in on cheaper deals and having something to prove. And that’s the same thing with Montas and Canning. Holmes much less so in that category because he’s more of an experiment in terms of a starting pitcher, but he’s obviously an established reliever. And I don’t mind the strategy one bit. I think it’s very smart to do this when it comes to pitching. However, they have to find themselves in the deeper end of the pool where starting pitching is concerned. I’m not saying get five guys on expensive long-term deals or give up your whole farm system for a bunch of starting pitchers, but I would like to see some starting pitching with a higher ceiling than what I see right now. That’s just my feeling.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Miken31 Well said, and thanks for clarifying.

          I’d agree that the Mets need to add a top of the rotation starter if the aim for 2025 is more than just “interesting games in September with a respectable if modest shot at the third wildcard.” (Say a 50-50 chance at the postseason)

          Do you have a current projection for the team? I’ve got them at 84 wins for now (with a payroll for LT purposes acc to Roster Resource around $250 million). That’s probably mildly conservative, and it’s close enough to 90 wins to suggest they’ll shoot for a 90-72 without hamstringing the team by doing something like adding say Bregman, age 31 next season, and Burnes, 30 next season.

          @geofft in particular on this site (if I’m reading him correctly) doesn’t think the Mets are in the topmost tier of teams and that they need too much to get to that tier in 2025 without paying a significant price in later seasons. I happen to think it’s an excellent point. The Mets are an old team and even their best prospects at the upper levels are at least a year away. (Put another way, none of their best prospects had the strong upper minors season you wanted to see the previous season before they’re promoted to MLB.)

          That means instead of Bregman and Burnes, making your offseason additions more like Manaea and Ha-Seong Kim (rumored for 1/12m) and a couple of good bullpen arms, all in FA. Even just that pushes payroll over $300m, but it also means you can reload when it looks like the farm system will begin regularly producing MLB-caliber ballplayers.

          —-Or would you splurge for Burnes or someone else with top of the rotation skills, and add another star at either 3B, 1B, or DH, taking the risk that by 2027 they’re entering the third year of a long deal and might be in decline just when the farm is producing?

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          I’d hate to even wager a guess on wins. I was so absurdly wrong about last season where I thought they were going to be awful, but on second thought I was actually accurate for the first two months of the season. I believe that perhaps Stearns has a knack for picking up guys we don’t have expectations for and then them outperforming what we expect. However, that could also be wishful thinking. But I’m going to say they will re-sign Alonso or get a capable first baseman or get a capable third basemen and move Vientos over to first base. I think the offense will be extremely balanced at that point. I believe they will then get one higher end starting pitcher, but I was hoping for two. Stearns will build the bullpen as he normally builds bullpens and we will see about that. I think a safe over under on the Mets for next season will probably be about 90 wins. We shall see!

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Miken31 Ha! I was also very close in 2024 (for the first two months). I think I had them at 77 or 78 wins for the season—and I would bet Stearns was surprised as anyone that they made the postseason.

          Agree on getting a capable 3Bman (albeit not Bergman). Stearns’ emphasis on fielding makes me think there’s no chance he leaves Vientos at 3B if he doesn’t absolutely have to. Move Mark to 1B where he may be average, get a glove guy at 3B until Mauricio’s ready, and you improve the IF defense by 20 to 30 Outs above average.

          What they do with pitching depends a lot on whether they think Senga’s fully healed. We shall see indeed!

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          I’m curious about a couple of X factors this season: Mauricio and Acuna. Those two players can transform the team offensively and defensively. Acuna is a terrific defensive player and he has a lot of pop in his bat. When I saw him last season, I was very surprised about how quick his bat is. He’s a very interesting player. Mauricio is not a great defensive player from what I’ve seen, but the guy can hit. I’ve said I feel like he has an Alfonso Soriano comparison. It was unfortunate he got hurt last year because I would’ve loved to have seen what he could’ve done. We will see that this season. I would assume Senga is healed. Players can miss an entire season and come back the next season to be fine, but because he only had a rookie season that was great and then one hurt season, I think we’re all a little skeptical. Fingers crossed.

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    • YourDreamGM

      6 months ago

      We’ll see. Last year Manaea Sevy were already mid rotation guys. Mets improved them especially Sevy. Quintana previous year already good. Montas already good. But Holmes reliever to starter is going big. Canning needs a good bit of improvement. Both can ve done but they are taking on a bigger risker project this year.

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    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @VonPurpleHayes Stearns gets a lot of good faith following his work in Milwaukee and his extraordinary magic act in Queens in 2024. (Fwiw I think he was almost as surprised as anyone. Exhibit One: Look how minimal his deadline moves were, where his additions summed to negative 0.3 WAR, iirc. Still, the good luck was the residue of smart design and an eye to possibility.) But it’s also reasonable to project Holmes for a median of 100 innings and 20 starts (for every Seth Lugo there are three AJ Puks!), Peterson for 110-120 innings and 22 starts, Senga for 135 innings and 24 starts, and Montas for 140 innings and 25 starts.

      That’s a lot of starting pitching that still either missing or going to lightweights like Megill and Blackburn. I think they’re short an ace and someone like Pivetta, though Pivetta money might be better spent on a DH if they figure Sproat and Tidwell shore up the basis for a 6-man rotation.

      The Canning signing is baffling for the moment. $4m is a lot for an SP with a FIP and ERA around 5.00 for 2021-2024—I don’t care how many innings he can pitch if they’re that quality. A $4m flyer probably isn’t going to be the best Stearns does between now and OD where the rotation is concerned. MIRP and starting depth outside the OD rotation, maybe? I can’t figure it out.

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      • Wagner>Cobb

        6 months ago

        No amount of money is a lot when Cohen owns the team. They can take financial “risks” that no one else would.

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        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          I get you quoted financial risks, but realistially cohen isnt looking to make back the money tho I guess he will try. He isnt taking a risk, he is spending some of his money. I’m just saying, i dont think he cares and its not a ‘financial risk’. If a ything more of baseball risk as he could screwup so badly itll be hard to not fix without doubling down then maybe he has to take a risk

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        • VonPurpleHayes

          6 months ago

          I agree, but if that’s true, why aren’t they splurging on pitching? I think Cohen is taking risks on superstars, but not pitchers.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Wagner>Cobb That’s so not the case, though. Cohen has always had an upper bound on what he’s willing to spend, and that means 6/150m for Alonso, for example is 150m not spent elsewhere. We also saw it at the 2024 Deadline where Stearns didn’t take on salary to get a better OFer or bullpen arm and nearly missed the postseason thanks to his skimpy Deadline pickups netting a negative 0.3 bWAR.

          Every single decision Stearns makes has an opportunity cost, the cost of reducing the chance of or outright eliminating other moves, and it’s always in the context of a finite payroll.

          Another example is, can Cohen afford to add Burnes and Bregman? Of course he can, but now payroll is up to $305m and you still only have half of a hitters’ lineup and a modest bullpen, plus by the time the farm is where you want it (say, 2027) you still probably haven’t won a World Series but you’re now paying a combined $144m to Lindor, 33; Nimmo, 34; Diaz 33, Senga, 34, Burnes 32, and Bregman 33. That would be the oldest and probably the most expensive nucleus in baseball.

          Opportunity cost—it’s always present unless we’re playing “force trades” MLB The Show.

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        • Raymond Flagstaff

          6 months ago

          mets didnt go after people at the deadline because they were only a fringe team at the time. mets bulldozed their way into the playoffs with the team as it was. there is no reason to think stearns failed at the deadline. standing pat was the obvious decision.

          saying he has an upper bound is basically saying nothing. yes everyone has a limited supply of money, but everything suggests you are wrong, there was no clear upper bound on soto. nor do i think you ‘know’ the ‘upper bound’ on alonso

          i know some people think that cohen is just gonna spend on everyone, because thats what silly people think, but of course they still need to only fill positions that need filling, and smartly. thats obvious.

          additionally the other players you say theyll need are very cheap compared to the players you are talking about. can sign 2 to 4 or so for the cost of 1

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    • HatlessPete

      6 months ago

      I’m with you on this one von. Their pitching moves so far leave me feeling like they’re kind of working backwards in filling out their rotation but if it doesn’t culminate in them acquiring a clear-cut front end starter it’s going to seem like they’ve fallen short in assembling a win now roster imo.

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  10. Troutahni

    6 months ago

    He took a step back this past season, but fr his career he has a 9.0 K/9 rate. After missing almost two seasons with a back injury he pitched 127 innings as a starter and had a K/9 of 9.9 and WHIP of 1.23.
    The Mets probably looked at that and figured they can get him back on track. He was durable last year on the plus side. His numbers are awful in the first inning, but he gets back on track during the 2nd inning. He might be the right guy as a bulk pitcher, but let him get it back together psychologically before putting him on the mound against the first batter. I’m surprised the Angels didn’t do more of that.

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  11. Tokyo

    6 months ago

    Good signing for a number 5 starter who will eat up some innings. He gets paid extra if he performs and if the Mets fall out of contention, they flip him for salary relief and pick up a prospect.

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    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      Tokyo:

      There’s no part of the Mets philosophy that should be “if they fall out of contention and flip him for salary relief or pick up a prospect.” They need to be going for it with more certainty of contention and the last thing in the world they need is salary relief and it’s not about picking up prospects. His salary is something that Steve Cohen can find in his couch cushions.

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      • Tokyo

        6 months ago

        If the Mets stink it up or if he does, he will not be on the team very long.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Tokyo:

          I think you missed my point. At this stage, the Mets should not be in a situation where they are stinking it up. With their resources and building off the season they had last year, they have to become more of a certainty like other teams in baseball. It’s not about salary, relief or trading players or prospects. That’s not anywhere near the phase they should be considering or should end up in at this point.

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        • geofft

          6 months ago

          The problem with what you’re saying is that they can’t really “build off of last year”, because so many of those pieces left as free agents. They’re basically starting off from only a slightly better (but still similar) place as last year.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Geofft:

          Building from one year the next doesn’t mean you have the same exact team. There’s turnover on every team. You build off last years success by taking the players who left from last year and getting better players this year. That builds off last year’s team. That’s the advantage of having so many free agents from one year to the next. You can shape your team any way you want and build off that to more success the next season.

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        • geofft

          6 months ago

          No, Mike, stop. Sorry to be harsh, but that is a generic, thoughtless, and theoretical response. There is turnover on every team, yes. But not 40% of your active roster, You lose that many players, and you’re not “building” on last year, you’re back to playing catch-up and restocking.
          Couple that with the fact that they don’t seem to have a single replacement coming from within their own prospect ranks.
          No, a better way to phrase it is to say that all teams have holes. Building from last year means keeping more good players, and using the resources to fill in the holes.
          Fans need to wake up and recognize that this team got lucky and overachieved last year in spite of the many fundamental and foundational short-comings.
          Give Stearns credit for improving that foundation, if only slightly, over the course of last season so he has fewer gaps to fill in this year.
          Frankly, I’m glad to see Stearns showing restraint, and I wouldn’t mind of the Mets miss the playoffs this year if it means coming out of it with a healthier, more complete foundation of major leaguers who will be returning, coupled with more prospects being [closer to] ready to step in and replace the departing players.

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        • Major League Baseball Fan

          6 months ago

          A for effort

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Geoff,

          Who did the Mets lose?

          Bader – 0.9 WAR
          Alonso? – 2.6
          JD Martinez – 0.5
          Winker – .01 WAR

          Severino – 1.6
          Manaea – 3.0
          Quintana – 2.5

          Some mediocre bullpen guys

          Additions
          Soto – 7.9 WAR
          Acuna – 0.5 WAR in a couple of weeks
          Siri – 1.8 WAR
          Senga – he was out all last season – 4.5 WAR in 2023
          Canning – 0.3 WAR
          Blackburn – ??

          Its December 18th, 55 days until spring training and 100 days until the regular season starts for the Mets.

          Mets seem to be in a slightly better place than they were last season and Stearns has lots of time to make more additions.

          Chill.

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Forgot Ronny Mauricio will be back after missing last season.
          Forgot they signed Clay Holmes.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Geofft:

          You seem to think you are the be all end all in opinions. You are not. What’s lazy and thoughtless is the fact that you don’t realize that the Mets signed players on short-term contracts to give them the flexibility that they have this off-season. It’s not always in a teams best interest to keep all their players because they could have underperforming players on contracts that are undesirable. What part of that is hard for you to grasp? The Mets have a solid farm system to trade from and plenty of cash to spend. There are trades and free agent signings to be made. You seem to think continuity is the only way to win. And you show your ignorance by talking about a team being lucky. They had the best record in baseball for 2/3 of the season last year. That’s not luck and you disparaging them in that way shows your lack of knowledge. I will put my faith in David Stearns to construct a team over you. The smartest teams lose players and know how to restock them. We’ve seen that from small market teams in the past like Tampa Bay and Milwaukee. Start paying attention and maybe you’ll learn something.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @geofft Well said. Very well said.

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    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @Tokyo With the Mets fair bets to roll with a novel form of the 6-man rotation even if they add a 190 inning stud like Burnes I’ll be very surprised if Canning and his 5.00 ERA and FIP the last four years is as good as their #5. I think his best chance to get real playing time is in a competition for the #6 slot in the rotation, and that the Mets weren’t entirely thrilled about who they’ll end up with in that role (Megill, Blackburn–who I’m surprised they’re bringing back at his arb estimate of $4.4 million) if they only add one more certainty to the rotation this offseason.

      Canning looks more like a guy who’ll do MIRP mopup duty once the roster is set around ST and with his remaining option may well be stashed in Syracuse and commute as needed. Still, $4m is more than most teams pay for this kind of pitcher with his FIP. On the other hand, he did go 170 innings in 2024 and struck out 10 per 9 innings as recently as 2023. I guess that’s a four million dollar man?

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  12. KnicksFanCavsFan

    6 months ago

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  13. mets1977

    6 months ago

    They needed 2 more starters hopefully the last one will be Manaea. Also don’t forget he needs to build an entire bullpen this offseason. There are only a couple of players who were in the bullpen last season that should be there this season

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    • geofft

      6 months ago

      Well you’ve just addressed your own issue: as they add more starters, a couple of these guys who currently appear to be in the rotation will be moved to the pen. And for all of he griping about the Mets bullpen, its actually in a better place than it was at this time last year.

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  14. just_thinkin

    6 months ago

    Weird!

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    • Blue Baron

      6 months ago

      Great self-assessment.

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      • just_thinkin

        6 months ago

        I feel like I have a good point

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        • Blue Baron

          6 months ago

          You do. You’re weird and you admit it, lol.

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        • just_thinkin

          6 months ago

          🙂

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        • Major League Baseball Fan

          6 months ago

          Blue Baron is the poster child for normalcy.

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  15. 10centBeerNight

    6 months ago

    NYM likely waiting for Sasaki decision next month to dictate adding an upper tier FA SP.

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    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      They probably have an excellent sense, between having about the least bonus pool money of any team and being on the East coast, that Sasaki isn’t coming to New York.

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  16. Doug

    6 months ago

    And the firm grip on 3rd Place is secured!

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  17. BronxBombers23

    6 months ago

    Holmes, Montas and now Canning… what comes next? Corbin? Stearns is cooking! What a great team they have! Rest of the NL is fckg scared! Mets > Dodgers

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    • Ben K

      6 months ago

      26 year old Juan Soto says Hello from across town you salty boy

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      • BronxBombers23

        6 months ago

        I don’t give a f about Soto. He will end up like Trout….

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Bronxbombers23:

          OK after comparing Soto to Trout, I realize you are just sucking on some very sour grapes. You lost one great player and brought in a mediocre outfielder, a very solid reliever, and a very good starting pitcher. And the team is still no better than they were last year with that offense you have. Last year you had two hitters and at this point you have one hitter.

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          Is this about the Yankees or about a fantastic Mets signing?

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Bronxbombers23:

          I didn’t bring Soto up. I saw you make the comparison there to Trout. Perhaps you’re responding to someone else, but I was responding to you. The Yankees are making desperate moves and signing a pitcher in his 30s to an 8 year contract. The Mets have a smart executive who makes under the radar signings that turn out to be big during the season. The Yankees have a bald little weeble, who doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing except complaining about the Astros years later.

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          A sure-fire HOF player by the time he turns 30? I think you are right about that. A perpetually injured CF. Probably wrong about that one because Soto’s value comes from his bat, not his glove. Also, he doesn’t throw his body around with abandon like Trout.

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          Like I said, this isn’t about the Yankees. You shouldn’t waste your time discussing the Yankees offseason. Celebrate your amazing signings.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          BronxBombers23:

          The Mets signed a sure fire Hall of Fame player at the age of 26, so I will celebrate the Mets amazing signings. You should do the same with your own team, if you can…

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          @outinleftfield More like wasted his career playing for the Angels…

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        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          Soto is one guy. One guy doesn’t make a team. He was part of a team last year that made the World Series. He played his part and his part only. To really think it takes that little to make a World Series is ignorant.

          Soto was a big loss, but so far the three players that have come a board are fantastic, yes Bellinger, too. He’s better than mediocre, but I’m realistic, he’s not replacing Soto. He’s better than Verdugo, Gleyber, and Rizzo, though, so that’s great start in replacing lost offense.

          Fried replacing Nestor and Devin replacing Clay massively enhances us elsewhere, too. We aren’t finished yet, but to say Cashman isn’t working to make this team better overall is disingenuous. Heck, I already think this team is better overall.

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          Thx Mike, tbh I was happy that the Yankees didn’t sign Soto to such a contract.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Bronx bombers 23:

          Yes, I’m sure you were happy. You wouldn’t want your owner, who could easily afford that contract and more, to have to go too deep into his pockets. Good thing you’re protecting Hal’s bank account.

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          It’s not about Hal, but I’m sure you won’t get it, so it would be a waste of time.

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        • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

          6 months ago

          Okay we don’t need to be mocking anyone for being bald now. Let’s all get along. And I hope I get a new toupee for Christmas

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        • Killer of Ignorance

          6 months ago

          Miken…NY has made superb moves so far. One of the best starters, one of the best relievers, a player on a short term deal that even if Belinger is terrible, no harm done. If he has a good year, which he is very capable of, he’ll opt out and then we will go from there. And the NYY are not done yet. Meanwhile, after signing Soto, which should be good for a while, it also has the possibility to turn into the biggest albatross of a contract of all time. And now the NYM seem to be trying to get by on the cheap, simply throwing cheap, oddball signings against the wall, hoping something will stick. The Mets seem to be all desperation after signing Soto, not the Yankees. The Yankees will end up being a better, more well rounded team after declining to go any higher than 16/760 mil. for chubby gut Juan.

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          So glad that you don’t like watching the best players and have to whine about where they play. Of the living HOF players, 1/3 do not have a ring.

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        • BronxBombers23

          6 months ago

          @outinleftfield Yankees got enough great players, don’t worry. Have fun watching Soto‘s fielding and base running! Enjoy the next 4-5 years, because after that he will be a fat full time DH. Good night!

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        • geofft

          6 months ago

          @ Killer of…. The idea that the Mets “seem to be all desperation” is your narrative, not the reality.
          NOBODY is all desperation in December. There are two months left in the off season and plenty of talented free agents. If they were all desperation, they would be jumping in and grasping at any high end free agent and his demands. Instead they’re biding their time and measuring the market.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          BronxBombers23:

          It’s not about Hal? Oh please please enlighten me then.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Killer of ignorance:

          It’s not superb because you say it’s superb. That’s your opinion. You may turn out to be right, but you don’t really know that. I don’t think Cody Bellinger is a reliable option at all. I’ve seen too many seasons from him where the bottom completely falls out. Fried is a very good pitcher and so is Williams. That being said, the Yankees offense is ugly right now. There’s a whole off-season to go, but right now it is ugly. And the Mets are not going to have an albatross contract because unlike the Yankees Steve Cohen will be willing to spend over his mistakes. And if you look at what an albatross contract, take a look at Aaron Judge’s contract and Garrett Cole’s contract. How will those age? You talk about Soto because his contract takes him to 40. But how about those two guys whose contracts take them to old baseball age? The Mets are not in desperation mode. They’re making methodical moves. Everything the Yankees have done is desperation. They trade for a mediocre Bellinger. They give Fried an eight year contract. They trade for Williams on the last year of his contract and will probably lose him in free agency. Give me a break.

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        • Killer of Ignorance

          6 months ago

          Geofft..I refer you to Miken’s post up above that referred to the Yankees making desperate signings. My response was to him and at this point, the Mets have to be more desperate than the Yanks comparing the composition of the two team’s current rotations. That’s reality.

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Jealousy, thy name is BB23. Did you know that I am an Angels fan. I have had the privilege of watching every one of Trout’s games. If I was a Mets fan I would enjoy watching every one of Soto’s games. That is what you do with the best of the best, you appreciate having the privilege to watch them play.

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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Angels and White Sox fans are pretty desperate right now, maybe the rockies fans too, but the Mets certainly aren’t.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          Putting up 10 win seasons and going to the Hall of Fame?

          The latter, probably. The former? C’mon. Two tools is two tools.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          Jazz’s 130 OPS with the Yankees says “Yo!” Between a full season of Chisholm, and Bellinger, Fried, and Williams the Yankees have more than replaced Soto, though you can quibble about the loss of Cortes.

          I think they’ll miss him a bit.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Salzilla If you weren’t doing some implied double counting in there I’d be more inclined to agree with you.

          On the upside, though, you omitted getting a full season from Chisholm after only getting 191 PA from him in 2024.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          Actually, comrade, Soto looked bloated at his signing announcement.

          He should give Pujols a call and see if Albert’s tailor is still in business. That gentlemen did yeoman’s work making #5 look fit into his late 30s.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          That was a distinctly odd statement. Would anyone be genuinely surprised if the Mets added Burnes, Bregman, and a couple of live arms at a 10m AAV each to the pen?

          I wouldn’t do it that way and I don’t think Stearns would either—a lot of people wouldn’t—but I think Cohen has plenty of say in player acquisitions.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Miken31 “Ugly” is too strong a word for a lineup with a foundation of Wells, Chisholm, Bellinger, Stanton, and Judge. Granted it’s hardly overpowering outside of Judge, but these are competent MLB hitters.

          It’s also assumed the Yankees are adding at least another very good hitter, and a second, good hitter shouldn’t surprise anyone. And bt Volpe, Cabrera, Rice, and Dominguez they should be able to get at least one of them to hit adequately!

          It’s not ideal, but it’s a bit better than you’re making it out to be.

          2
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        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          @Jack, absolutely, I’m Jazzed about a full season of Jazz. Always liked the player.

          Not sure what I double counted though?

          1
          Reply
        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          Miken is exactly what another Mets fan I argued with in an earlier thread and yet another commenter that argued the day before. To them, everyone stinks on the Yankees, the free agents, the prospects, everyone. You can present the best record in the AL, a World Series appearance, MVP, ROY, and yet they’re unwavering because all they can do is hate. To me, it screams immaturity.

          All the kids on the Yanks are solid contributors, and I much rather have them on the roster then not. Combined with the vets, that’s a good base of solid hitting and youth.

          And the offseason is far from over, for the Mets as well, but like I said Soto is one player (obviously an awesome player, and let the guy eat a little right now, why not) but the pitching acquisitions (why this thread started) so far are questionable. I don’t buy into the Pitching Lab being infallible. That’s a formula that’s going to bite them especially since the three this season are far more dubious than last. It’s not exactly how you want to start the build around Soto. I criticized the Yanks last offseason the same way tbf.

          So in both cases, neither have one the pffseason quote yet, but it’s an interesting race to be sure.

          Anyhoo, I appreciate your more grounded takes, Jack. A pleasure to debate with.

          1
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          Most of those guys were there last year and it was still pretty much a lineup of Judgr and Soto. You mention, Stanton, who is typically hurt for large stretches of the regular season and can’t really be relied upon. Chisholm is a solid offensive player and he will definitely help them having him the whole season. Wells has a lot to prove. I’ve heard a lot about this guy, but only seen it in spurts so far. I’m not a huge Bellinger fan because of the inconsistencies in his career. And yes, they certainly could add more but I was speaking more about the current lineup. Was I being somewhat hyperbolic? Yes, but I was arguing with the Yankees fan. It wasn’t all based upon logic. Ha ha

          2
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Salzilla:

          It’s a message board. I’m having some fun with people. Of course not everyone of the Yankees stinks. I think they have a lot of work to do and a lot of these young players on the Yankees have absolutely not proved themselves. I look at a guy like Vientos who’s a young player who’s done it for a season. A lot of young players on the Yankees are more about promise than actual production. They will still be a 90+ win team and contend to be in the World Series. I still think their pitching is much better than their lineup. I do buy somewhat into the Mets pitching lab, but as I was saying in another post, I need to see some starting pitching that has a higher ceiling than what I anticipate these pitchers to have. I see Senga with a high ceiling and everyone else in the rotation to me as a ceiling of mid rotation pitcher or lower. They could outperform my expectations, but that’s just my perception. I would like to see them get into the deep end of the starting pitching pool for at least one additional starting pitcher.

          1
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        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          “So in both cases, neither have one the pffseason quote yet, but it’s an interesting race to be sure.”

          Holy jeez that’s what get for lack of edits. It should be “…neither have won the offseason quite yet…”

          Reply
        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          @Miken But a lineup of two players is just that, they aren’t up 4.5 times each. Everyone played a part moreso than given credit for. IMO the Mets right now have less overall behind Soto than the Yanks did last season. They really need Alonso back or another big bat signed.

          Reply
        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          And just to add, I get it, it’s a message board it’s fun to debate. But when one party closes their eyes and ears to what the other is saying despite factual evidence supporting it, it gets trying and time wasted. This by far was the best response i read from you from all read yesterday. Granted Bronx was going the same way to you, but it’d better to meet in the middle sometime. Or just look at things more objectively.

          Look, EOD, I’m a New Yorker through and through. I love a little friendly competition between the teams, but I’m never out for blood against the Mets. Heck my first baseball game was a Mets game. If they make the Series instead of the Yanks, for sure I’d root for them. That’s me being a NY first guy. I rarely see the same reciprocated though unfortunately.

          2
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Salzilla:

          I think when all is said and done the Mets will have a deeper and better lineup than the Yankees will. But again the rest of the offseason has to play out in order to prove that. I’m not sure where the closing ones ears and eyes part comes in. I don’t close my eyes and ears to anything. I read and hear what others have to say and I give my opinion. I make many comments. Some are going to be more measured and some more emotional in tone. Some are poking fun and busting balls. All in good fun.

          1
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        • Salzilla

          6 months ago

          Sorry I didn’t mean to single you out there in particular. Like I said in last night’s comment it’s been days of this from multiple Mets fans. It gets tired. It’s insane how we can’t just all enjoy our teams lol.

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Salzilla:

          No problem. You’re right. And a lot of us get carried away. It’s easy to do with the anonymity of a message board. Lol.

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Salzilla My error entirely, compadre. I muddled another post with yours.

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Salzilla Likewise, Sal—and I couldn’t agree more regarding the fallibility of pitching labs. There are limits to what some guys can change, limits to how quickly they can change, limits to their skill sets, and sometimes a rotator cuff just shreds.

          I do think the Mets went hard after Crochet, but were finally unwilling to beat the Red Sox’s huge prospects offer as that would have gutted what for now is a pretty average system. Don’t know where else they turn now—Burnes has to be tempting, but I’d bet the settle for Manaea or Pivetta, some mid-priced bullpen arms, and a 125 OPS+ bat to DH. That and one bench player and they’re over $300m

          I also agree wrt the Yankees young players. I think bt Rice, Peraza, Martian, Jones, and Cabrera they’ll have two or more producing significantly by midseason. Even if it’s only two and they’re just average at the plate, that starts to become a formidable lineup. Add a very good bat in FA and it’s “Juan who?”

          All right–not quite, but it’ll be a solid lineup with a good core centered around the human highlight reel. Cheers,

          Reply
        • Killer of Ignorance

          6 months ago

          Mikey Right now the Yankees have a better lineup, a better starting rotation, and a better bullpen than the Mets. Any honest, objective baseball analyst would agree. You can try to spin things to your wishful thinking but right now the Yankees are a better team. Without Soto. Why are the Mets dragging their feet?

          1
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Killer of ignorance:

          You just signed the corpse of Paul Goldschmidt. Take it easy. That lineup is not good. You have a bunch of young Yankee players who’ve done nothing. Then you have a bunch of veteran guys who, let’s be honest, who knows what they will do? And then there’s Aaron Judge. Good luck! But you told me that “objective baseball analysts” agree with you. Well, then it must be true because you made that statement!

          Reply
      • Killer of Ignorance

        6 months ago

        26 yr. old Juan Soto says hello from his mama’s place as he stuffs another footlong beef burrito smothered with a half pound of cheese and swimming in gravy in his mouth. ” Two more of those mama ” says Juan, ” and bring in more of that chocolate cake and don’t forget the ice cream and that caramel topping, ” Urrp..” 🙂

        1
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Killer of ignorance:

          It seems like you’re spreading ignorance more than killing it. You have old Aaron Judge. You have old Garrett Cole. You have Max Fried until he’s about 40. But hey, you’re in great shape! And how is Giancarlo “Mike” Stanton doing these days?

          Reply
    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      Bronxbombers23:

      You should be more worried about Bellinger and his propensity to have entire seasons where he does nothing.

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      Reply
  18. wvredsfan

    6 months ago

    I assume he’s just another arm to use in long relief/spot start… I believe Stearns is still going to get another top starter or 2 and a 1st baseman

    2
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    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @wvredsfan I wish we had some idea, ANY idea, if Senga was going to pitch six innings, or one hundred and sixty.

      2023 Senga is probably too much to ask, but boy was he a blast to watch!

      Still, even if Senga’s their #1, who’s their #2??? There doesn’t seem to be anyone obviously a fair bet to put up a 115 ERA+ or better in 26+ starts, somone you genuinely want starting postseason games.

      “Mr. Stearns? Calling Mr. Stearns. The front of your rotation seems to have gone missing….”

      1
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      • Baseballisthebest

        6 months ago

        I think you have some idea because Stearns has not been pushing to sign every top free agent pitcher. If Senga was not far along in his recovery and expected to be ready from the get go when pitchers and catchers report in February I would think there would be more urgency. I still think one of the top 2 left ends up a Met.

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        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          Fair enough.

          2
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  19. rememberthecoop

    6 months ago

    Why?

    1
    Reply
    • Kevin Illyanovich Rasputin Kubusheskie

      6 months ago

      because

      2
      Reply
      • Blue Baron

        6 months ago

        No Salary Cap: Centerfield.

        Reply
    • Blue Baron

      6 months ago

      remember: Leftfield.

      Reply
      • Kevin Illyanovich Rasputin Kubusheskie

        6 months ago

        I don’t give a darn?

        Reply
  20. User 4014041831

    6 months ago

    Cool Name the Mythical Griffin – similiarities to the Phoenix OR the Grimace? OMG?

    NYM Rises from the Ashes?

    NYM wants to bring in Sasaki VERY VERY MUCH.
    Make It So. Engage!

    We’re Following the LAD Plan
    We are accumulating Openers and a Bullpen game of 5 pitchers
    Hey they won a World Series Soooo

    Reply
    • User 4014041831

      6 months ago

      Buehler instead IF we can’t get Sasaki
      I would give Buehler 4 (maybe 5) guaranteed years and Sasaki longer. Maybe 8-10? Burnes maybe 6 years. I want to see medical info Please.

      What are these Bregman to NYM rumors?
      PLEASE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

      Reply
      • geofft

        6 months ago

        You’d be foolish to give Buehler 4 guaranteed years, let alone 5, given his injury history. And that is exactly why the Mets are interested in him – because they think he can be had for a low level of commitment. It is also why his free agency may drag on for a while. Its going to take some time for the market to sort out just what his term length is.

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      • JackStrawb

        6 months ago

        Er, even the most optimistic estimate at Fangraphs has Buehler getting just 2/30m.

        Nor can you sign Sasaki for six-plus years.

        —–I’d like to see medical info on this commenter, please.

        1
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        • User 4014041831

          6 months ago

          Yes but David Stearns/Steve Cohen and the player has the last say – they won’t be seeking permission or validation from FanGraphs.
          Do you believe everything you read?

          They have doctors that advise them on any medical info and they might extend the length of contract and guaranteed $ to secure the player. Sasaki, Buehler and Burnes have many teams interested so you have to set yourself apart.

          NYM seems like they want to hold on most if not all of their prospects and would rather emphasize additions via FA at least for 2025. Understanding not every prospect will fulfill their potential

          Reply
    • Fernando P

      6 months ago

      @YaGottaBelieve – Right, LA had openers in Flaherty, Glasnow, Yamamoto, Buehler etc.

      Now they have openers in Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow and Snell. Plus Miller, Gonsolin, Kershaw etc.

      LOL, openers!

      Reply
      • User 4014041831

        6 months ago

        I was just making a joke where they had to improvise based on injuries and pitchers that weren’t available down the stretch and in the playoffs. You can get away with that when you have so many resources 10 plus starters so i was making an analogy

        It’s been stated a number of times NYM is trying to follow a similar plan that the LAD have been using. Last 10 years or so while Andrew Friedman has been POBO

        Reply
        • Fernando P

          6 months ago

          @YaGottaBelieve – Gotcha

          Reply
  21. wvsteve

    6 months ago

    They bought the suit at Gucci and getting the rest of the outfit at TJ Maxx

    6
    Reply
    • outinleftfield

      6 months ago

      Only things pay attention to is a finely tailored suit, great shoes, and the watch. You can wear a t-shirt with Gucci and people will think you are a billionaire.

      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        6 months ago

        Billionaires go all custom. Gucci is for 6 figure crowd.

        1
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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Billionaires call it bespoke. If you are going to Thailand, Patrick & Co is one of the truly great tailors. Probably still get a top notch bespoke suit for under 30,000 baht, about $900 USD.

          Paul Bespoke in Bangkok is pretty good too. Its where I went my first vacation to Thailand.

          You can vacation in Thailand and buy 2 suits cheaper than buying 1 suit here in California

          In a billionaire crowd you can wear jeans and a tshirt along with your Patek Philippe or Vacheron Constantin and you will fit right in.

          1
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        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          If you are into watches, here is the one I want – vacheron-constantin.com/us/en/collections/traditio… About $300k

          Here is the one I have –
          vacheron-constantin.com/us/en/collections/traditio…

          Took a very long time to convince my wife I needed it.

          If Santa is listening, I would gladly trade.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          6 months ago

          Thailand and pretty much all of southeast Asia is fantastic. Wouldn’t go there to buy cloths though. Not a huge watch guy. I collect them but not my favorite. I got rid of everything of value few years ago. Never even wear a watch. I will pick up something if I come across it. 300k is beyond my expertise. Tell the wife life is short. If that watch makes you happy go for it.

          Reply
  22. mad1

    6 months ago

    What a great deal for the Mets. Paid 4.25 million for a maybe a 2 million dollar player

    Reply
    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      Mad1:

      I hadn’t realized you are such an expert on equating player performance to salary evaluation. Please tell me more of your expertise in this area.

      Reply
      • outinleftfield

        6 months ago

        Mikie, meet Griffin Canning, 0.3 WAR pitcher. Based on the 2023-2024 offseason FA signings, 1 point of WAR is worth $9.25 million. Canning’s 0.3 WAR is worth , drum roll please, $2.75 million.

        The mad one is pretty close.

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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Out in left field:

          Except we know these low cost pitchers can get a little bit more because there’s a lot of teams competing on them (see Erick Fedde). It’s about projecting what they think he can do. So if the Mets think Canning can do something to get him to outperform that war and they have to go a little bit higher to acquire him than ultimately we don’t really know his value until we see what he does next year. And we are talking about peanuts when we were talking about a team like the Mets. I mean, they signed a $2 million pitcher for $4 million? Really? If they see something in him that they think can outperform that the. it’s a silly complaint to begin with.

          Reply
        • User 4014041831

          6 months ago

          Except Nobody can predict the future.

          Reply
        • geofft

          6 months ago

          Three things that render that argument completely moot:
          1- Sometimes you overpay on present day value if you bveleive future upside is higher.
          2- He was scheduled to get about $5M in arbitration, where dollars-to-WAR is not used in determining salaries.
          3- the 1.5 million difference is chicken feed to this team’s payroll.

          2
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Except teams are paying for the future. So they’re using predictive measures to determine what players will do in the future.

          Reply
        • Major League Baseball Fan

          6 months ago

          Mets are buying 2025 Canning.
          How much bWAR in 2025 Nostradomus?

          Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Nostradamus? Isaiah in the Old Testament? Greg Maddux?

          Reply
        • Fernando P

          6 months ago

          @Geofft – If money is chicken feed, then why not sign Fried, Burnes, Snell? All this Uncle Steve won’t be outbid nonsense to then spend peanuts on a starting rotation and bullpen.

          Senga pitched one game, Holmes is a RP converting to starter, Blackburn coming off injury. The two guys with the most IP in 2024 had a 4.84 and 5.19 ERA.

          That’s a lot of question marks.

          Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          I am going with about 1.0. That is a little higher than his career average. That would be worth his new salary.

          He might even match his 2023 career high at 2.0. He would be an incredible bargain if he could do that.

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Outinleftfield:

          You think they sign all these players without having any predictive measures? Yeah, I guess they just throw darts against the board.

          Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          Miken, I think you comment without having any brain cells, but I know that the teams look at past performance because that is what stats are.

          No team has a crystal ball or a prophet on the payroll. They look at what a player has done in the past, look at what they might be able to do to help him be better, and hope.

          Reply
  23. BronxBombers23

    6 months ago

    Very close one….. Senga Montas Holmes Canning Patrick Corbin vs Ohtani Snell Yamamoto Glasnow Kershaw

    Reply
    • outinleftfield

      6 months ago

      do you think there will be any 5 game stretch where all those guys for the Dodgers will be available to pitch? It won’t be opening day because Roberts has already said Ohtani won’t be ready to go and the Dodgers haven’t signed Kershaw yet.

      Reply
      • Baseballisthebest

        6 months ago

        Short answer. No.

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  24. johncoltrane

    6 months ago

    Mets are trying to repeat the 2024 rotation full of has beens & scrubs
    Stearns knows what hes doing
    But its risky signing garbage veteran pitchers again & thinking you can revive them

    3
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    • Yankee Clipper

      6 months ago

      Very true if that’s what he’s doing. Cashman has had more success than any GM at this type of rotation building, arguable, and it’s bit him a few times too. I guess the good news is that $4MM is a nominal amount when considering their payroll expenditures.

      2
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    • YourDreamGM

      6 months ago

      Quintana Manaea were already good and proved it the previous year before Mets. Sevy didn’t prove it but was good, Mets made him even better. Montas already good as is like Manaea Quintana. Holmes already good just as reliever. lil risky but good odds. Canning needs some work but potential is there.

      Reply
    • Fernando P

      6 months ago

      @John. – That was okay with Milwaukee when he ….
      1) Had no money to sign anyone
      2) Had a farm system that produced Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta. And closers like Hader & Williams.

      Reply
  25. Cambo

    6 months ago

    Every Met fan talks about their pitching lab like no other major league team has one. I bet the ANGELS had one!

    Reply
    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      Cambo:

      In case you slept through last season, the reason the pitching lab is being brought up is because the Mets did more with pitchers off the scrap heap who were expected to do nothing. Why would you compare them to the angels who had a horrendous year and didn’t do anything?

      2
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      • JackStrawb

        6 months ago

        @Miken31 In fairness Stearns turned around all of ONE pitcher who had been struggling with injuries. ONE–Severino.

        They whiffed completely on Houser.

        Blackburn was their big starting pitching deadline arm and he was bad. 5.19 ERA and negative 0.3 WAR.

        Stearns had $12m to spend on relievers in the 2023-24 offseason, he spent $4m each on three bullpen arms, and whiffed on ALL of them.

        As for Manaea he needed to figure out to drop his delivery all on his own, and even that only got his FIP down to where it was pre-Mets, in 2023, and not as good as it was in 2021, 2020, and 2019. It was great to see him throw 32 starts but he’d done it before.

        And as for Quintana’s 170.1 innings that was his EIGHTH highest IP total in a season. EIGHTH.

        The story of the Mets having some great pitching lab is wildly overblown. Peterson’s ERA was good but his FIP was just a repeat of 2022. Megill was Megill. They couldn’t fix Diaz. The bullpen was a problem for four months. Stanek at the Deadline gave them a 6.06 ERA. Brazoban was dreadful. For every success there was more than one failure.

        Credit to Stearns in the overall, but nobody and I mean nobody is getting the story on the pitching right.

        1
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        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          We don’t have enough Intel to know who benefited from the pitching lab or not. Peterson had a very good year. He could’ve benefited from it too for all we know. I’m just looking at guys who, whether due to injury or performance last year performed better than anticipated. Include some guys from the bullpen too, maybe like a Nunez. There’s no doubting, though that the starting rotation held up far better than anyone could’ve anticipated and did Severino Manaea Peterson and Quintana all benefit from this pitching lab? We have more anecdotal evidence at this point, but I’m willing to be open minded to something being there with what I saw from the pitching last year. And yes, there were guys who didn’t pitch well, but you can’t take chicken bleep and turn it into chicken salad. It’s not going to work for every pitcher too.

          Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Miken31 All in all I’d call the pitching a very mixed bag. (I don’t mean this as criticism, it just would have been more helpful if you had addressed more of what I wrote, specifically, so I could agree or disagree with concrete examples..)

          I don’t want to belabor the points in my OP, but let’s take just Exhibit A, where Stearns clearly did his best work:

          Credit to Stearns for selecting Severino from a large pool of possibilities, and credit for helping him stay fully healthy for the first time in six years, but this was only Sevy’s 5th best season by bWAR. His ERA+ in the pitcher’s park that is Citi Field was merely average, and he needed some luck to achieve that, with a 3.91 ERA but a 4.21 FIP—below average considering his home park.

          It seems clear enough that in 2024 Severino was taught to take a little something off his pitches in order to aid his durability. It worked, but the price was that he was nothing like his best years, 2017-2018. In short, it’s not as if Stearns figured out a way to turn a previously mediocre starting pitcher into a #1 or #2. It’s more like he picked up a former #1 SP and turned him into a respectable, durable, but very average, very ordinary pitcher.

          Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          JackStrawb:

          Yes, I’m sorry. I did not give you a deep dive there. However, as I was saying a lot of it is anecdotal. We can say Manaea is not part of it just because he copied for Sale. But how do we know it’s just copying Chris? how do we know the pitching lab isn’t part of that? How do we know Peterson‘s improvements aren’t part of that? How do we know Nunez’s improvements aren’t part of that? How do we know if Quintana pitching like one of the best pitchers in baseball late in the season had anything to do with it? I’m not saying the Mets turned all these pitchers around. I’m just trying to keep an open mind and I think it’s going to take years to really determine if the Mets are an organization that can really do this or not.

          Reply
    • outinleftfield

      6 months ago

      Cambo, the Angels will have one at the spring training facility in 2025, but have not had one in the past.

      Reply
      • icantstandyous

        6 months ago

        They had it in 2024 si.com/mlb/angels/news/angels-coach-excited-by-new…

        Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          March of last year was when they started the project. It will be completed this spring, much like much of the renovations to Diablo Stadium.

          Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      6 months ago

      Mets know what they are doing but pitching lab is overrated. Quintana Manaea were already good before Mets. Sevy needed some work and they definitely helped but nothing special. Montas already good as is. If Angels were good at things they would make playoffs.

      Reply
      • outinleftfield

        6 months ago

        Not even a good troll.

        Cookie was pretty good, but was coming off an injury in 2023.

        Manaea the previous 2 seasons – 4.73 ERA. He wasn’t good.
        Severino the previous 2 seasons – 4.80 ERA and injuries. Not good

        Between them they saw an improvement of more than a full point of ERA. Both ended in the 3s, not the high 4s.

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  26. KnicksFanCavsFan

    6 months ago

    How would Met fan feel if the Mets, after handing out $800 mil to Soto, ended up bargain shopping on the rotation or let Alonzo leave without replacing his bat? You would figure the FA hitters would be lining up to get some of Cohen’s money and hit with Soto. Throw that money around if you’re going to do it

    Reply
    • Miken31

      6 months ago

      Knicks fan Cavs fan:

      That would feel bad except that’s not what happened yet. The off season is still going on and Alonso is still out there and a lot of pitching is still out there.

      1
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      • KnicksFanCavsFan

        6 months ago

        @Mike

        Mets gave $50 mil invested in 5 pitchers. How many more are they going to sign?

        Reply
        • Miken31

          6 months ago

          Knicks fan:

          Probably as many as they think can help them.

          1
          Reply
        • Niekro floater

          6 months ago

          Can never have too much pitching.

          Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        6 months ago

        All the free agent hitters are likely overrated and will be overpayed. They signed Soto for fan excitement and the attendance boost. Alonso doesn’t move the needle there and Goldschmidt Santana are the far better play. If they splurge Walker is better play than Alonso. Unless everyone values Alonso correctly then he is he play. Except Boras may wait too long and Mets can’t afford to wait.

        Reply
    • User 4014041831

      6 months ago

      Giving out long contracts with large bags of $ doesn’t guarantee anything.
      It’s just like a temporary sugar rush. It does sell tickets

      I like World Championships better.

      Think of all the years the of NYY since 2009
      and
      the Don Mattingly, Dave Winfield, Ricky Henderson years?
      How many World Series did they win?

      Reply
      • Miken31

        6 months ago

        Ya gotta believe again:

        I agree, but these decisions have to be measured. There shouldn’t be fear of the long-term contract too, especially with an owner who can easily spend over his mistakes. I don’t think it should just be expensive long-term contract after expensive long-term contract. But the Mets can hand out a couple of expensive long-term contracts in an off-season and be just fine

        1
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        • User 4014041831

          6 months ago

          They will probably sign 2 more significant Free Agents.

          Anybody can criticize Except IF it works.
          Offseason not complete. Increasing probabilities
          Balancing needs of the present and future.

          2024 NYM results were a big improvement
          Sasaki or Buehler + another bat and I’m Ready to Go to War!

          Successful Head Coaches in NFL analogy

          Reid, Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh etc.
          Different Styles Gets it Done

          Oh Ye of Little Faith? Tis the Season to Believe

          Merry Christmas! Happy Hanukkah!
          Happy New Year!

          3
          Reply
      • KnicksFanCavsFan

        6 months ago

        @Ya

        You just spent $805 mil on Soto. You don’t go out and buy an expensive car and then put used tires and car accessories from Temu in/on it. You don’t sign Soto for that but then get conservative on the pitching staff.

        2
        Reply
      • dasit

        6 months ago

        the yankees actually won more games in the 1980s than any team in mlb they just had the bad luck to play in a tough division before the wild card (1983 orioles 98 wins 1984 tigers 104 wins 1985 blue jays 99 wins 1987 tigers 98 wins). with the current playoff format they would have made the postseason every year from 1983 to 1986

        Reply
        • User 4014041831

          6 months ago

          Plus many teams could have won a WS if Wild Cards had been around earlier

          Reply
        • dasit

          6 months ago

          1993 giants won 103 (!) games and didn’t make the postseason

          Reply
        • KnicksFanCavsFan

          6 months ago

          @dasit

          blah blah blah.. the Yanks from 82 to 93 were doodoo.

          Reply
        • dasit

          6 months ago

          stump merrill years were so bad doo doo is not a strong enough word

          Reply
    • Blue Baron

      6 months ago

      KnicksFan: Spring training is two months away. Be patient.

      4
      Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @KnicksFanCavsFan It’s mid-December.

      That’s like asking someone, “Did you enjoy the honeymoon,” when the wedding ceremony finished a minute ago.

      3
      Reply
      • KnicksFanCavsFan

        6 months ago

        @jack

        They need a FOR arm and there’s one out there that appears is resulting for sometime to tito a bag at him. Mets should be all over it since morro doesn’t matter to Cohen. He did well to get the unicorn. Let’s see if he willing to keep spending

        Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @Knicks I’m fairly certain that with a roster that currently figures to win 84-85 games in 2025, Stearns is going to get them to a median of about 90 wins, if not more.

          They’re already over the LT threshold so there’s no chance they’ll stop here—the question is more will they

          (a) add studs that will decline precipitously in the later years of 6, 7, 8 year deals, guys like Burnes, age 30, and Bregman, age 31, or…

          (b) will they get to 90 wins by adding a win here, a win there, say with Ha-Seong Kim as the main backup IFer, a couple of $5m-7m bullpen arms, a respectable DH on something like a 1/12m deal as they did in 2024, and piece their way to 90 wins, making them less likely to get to the World Series, but also not compromising their chances in 2026 and after just to build a team for 2025 that even with a $375m payroll won’t make it to the Dodgers’ tier.

          Reply
  27. wvsteve

    6 months ago

    I simply don’t think the Mets are as good now then they were last year

    Reply
    • geofft

      6 months ago

      But nobody thought they were any good last year until after they did it on the field. And they don’t have to be as good in December. The season starts in late March, and rosters continue being built as the season progresses.

      5
      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        6 months ago

        Why aren’t they as good? They lost 3 pitchers signed 3. Might sign more. If they miss they have 2 mlb ready prospects ready. Soto is night day better than Alonso. They will likely sign a 1b as good as Alonso. Braves Phillies don’t appear to be spending.

        Reply
    • outinleftfield

      6 months ago

      You might want to look at what their roster looked like on December 18th 2023.

      1
      Reply
    • icantstandyous

      6 months ago

      They aren’t. Still haven’t gotten a reputable 5 hitter and now they are down a cleanup hitter. I think there is no guarantee you get same production from vientos. Alvarez was overhyped and now you see how he really hits. Nimmo another year older. And anyone who thinks Acuna will be a superstar, you may want to look at his prospect grades. And there is not one reputable arm on the entire staff….no point to get Soto if it’s going to impact every signing for the next 15 years. Last year was luck. They are going to need twice as much to compete in 2025 with a rotation and bullpen like this.

      Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @wvsteve Of course they’re not as good as they were, compadre. It’s only mid-December and they lost 14 players and 16 wins to free agency. Since then they’ve signed all of three players (worth about 10 wins) for next season, four if you count Griffin Canning, but since he has an option year remaining and isn’t particular.y good he’ll probably begin the year in Syracuse. He had the kind of K-rate as recently as 2023 that Stearns is infatuated with, but he’s probably a project.

      For now they look like an 84 win team and that’s without any kind of real bullpen, without a top of the rotation arm, a DH, and possibly an addition at 3B as well.

      I didn’t like the Soto signing at that absurd price, but it’s hard to argue with adding seven wins at the stroke of a pen. The Mets can pretty easily get to a 90 win projection with a $300m, payroll. They’re already at $250m. Would anyone be all that surprised if Cohen approved a $350m payroll for 2025?

      1
      Reply
      • geofft

        6 months ago

        FYI, Canning has 5 years MLB service time, so even though he has an option remaining, he also has the right to refuse any minor league assignment. Guessing he winds up in the bullpen once the dust settles and the Mets have filled out the rotation.

        Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          @geofft Appreciate the correction. It’s an important point.

          Reply
  28. Scott Worden

    6 months ago

    The kid has good stuff. Unfortunately, he leaves too many balls over the middle of the plate. His whole career has been giving up the long ball.

    2
    Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      Canning’s going from a hitter’s park (Park Factor of 104 in 2024) to a pitcher’s park (Park Factor of 94 in 2024) with a world class CFer behind his starts and an average CFer in LF. That and a tweak should have his ERA down around 4.00.

      He even has a Gold Glove to his credit. How he pulled that off in 56 innings is a mystery to me.

      2
      Reply
  29. Dumpster Divin Theo

    6 months ago

    Oh this will make the Mets good again maybe

    2
    Reply
  30. Never Remember

    6 months ago

    Mets great at stocking up on bad pitchers. They really seem to believe their own PR about working miracles with pitchers.. Good luck in 3rd place.

    3
    Reply
  31. HalosHeavenJJ

    6 months ago

    Good for Griffin.

    He seems to go good year/bad year so maybe he’s due for another good one.

    2
    Reply
  32. just_thinkin

    6 months ago

    As an outside observer, it’s weird that the Mets don’t have an ace, right?

    1
    Reply
    • User 4014041831

      6 months ago

      Pitchers and Catchers don’t have to report till Feb 15 2025.

      3
      Reply
  33. icantstandyous

    6 months ago

    This move makes me want to punch that stupid smile off Stearns face

    2
    Reply
    • Major League Baseball Fan

      6 months ago

      Interesting perspective. Seems well thought out and reasoned. Power to the people. LOL.

      1
      Reply
  34. Mlbfan78

    6 months ago

    As a swingman pitching a few innings of relief, making the occasional spot start, yeah this is fine.
    However as of 12/18/2024 the Mets rotation as is, is not good enough to win the World Series.
    Still time in the off-season, so let’s see what the pitching staff looks like when spring training starts.

    Reply
    • Major League Baseball Fan

      6 months ago

      Opening Day: 13 pitchers
      6 SPs
      4 multi inning relievers
      3 back end bullpen guys

      Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @Mlbfan78 Let me try a rare, optimistic spin:

      –Senga, career 2.99 ERA, 29 GS in 2023
      –Peterson, 2.90 ERA in 2024.
      –Holmes, 2.85 ERA, 2022-2024
      –Montas 3.67 ERA, 3.55 FIP, 331`IP, 2021-2022
      –Canning, 2023, 10K/9, 2.6BB/9, 1.236 WHIP, and; 171 innings in 2024, moving to a pitcher’s park for 2025.

      And it’s still mid-December. These are pitchers who have all done good, useful things in 2023 and / or 2024 and the offseason’s far from over. These aren’t retreads who were good five years ago, they were good / promising / or in Senga’s case, an ace last season or the one before.

      The exception is probably Canning, who has the ingredients of an above average, durable starter but has yet to put it all together—and he’s not even the Mets 6th best starter, currently.

      1
      Reply
      • DrDick

        6 months ago

        Where can I get a pair of those rose colored glasses?

        1
        Reply
        • JackStrawb

          6 months ago

          Ha! Time for a change of pace

          Reply
  35. Acoss1331

    6 months ago

    Every team does their depth signing, dumpster diving I call it at times, but it’s still early in the offseason, I’m sure Stearns is cooking.

    2
    Reply
    • DrDick

      6 months ago

      Cooking meth maybe?

      Reply
  36. Ma4170

    6 months ago

    So basically another Tylor Megill. I’m all for depth but can the depth be a little higher quality?

    2
    Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      What can we ask, really, from the guy who currently slots in around #9 on the starters’ Depth Chart? Canning’s moving from a hitter’s to a pitcher’s park and will have significantly better defense behind him. Except for 2024, which involved injuries, he’s struck out 9 or 10 per 9 innings throughout his career. He also has a GG to his name, has an option left, and has been pitching for one of the worst-run organizations in MLB.

      He seems like a fair bet to be above average in 2025, with an outside chance, say 20%, of throwing 150 innings with an ERA around 4.00, perhaps even 3.80. That’s a nice player to have. And if he’s not so great the option year gives him room and time to figure it out.

      2
      Reply
  37. jvent

    6 months ago

    If they’re going with a 6 man rotation, they still don’t have an Ace or a #2, I would still sign Sasaki or Buehler and resign Manaea .Their rotation should be Sasaki/Buehler, Manaea, Senga, Montas, Peterson and Holmes. With Canning, Blackburn and Megill in the bullpen or trades. They should still resign Alonso or sign Walker, resign Winker, Iglesias and Stanek. Trade McNeil, Marte , Blackburn/Megill . Stearns stop with these guys that you’re signing and get someone good

    Reply
    • outinleftfield

      6 months ago

      jvent, What do you call Senga?

      1
      Reply
      • DrDick

        6 months ago

        A guy with only 30 starts in the majors?

        Reply
        • jvent

          6 months ago

          A #3 starter if healthy, I don’t like given the longer years to pitchers , especially with Sproat and Christian Scott coming back but we still need an Ace, I’m hoping we can get Sasaki, he’s young and controllable for years , Sasaki, Sproat, Scott and Peterson can be a young good rotation for years “ The New Generation K

          Reply
        • Ma4170

          6 months ago

          I think senga is a 1a/2 when healthy. He was in the CY running in 2023. They really need 25+ starts from him.

          1
          Reply
        • outinleftfield

          6 months ago

          He was the #5 overall starting pitcher in baseball in 2023 when he was healthy. That is a #3 starter?

          Reply
    • JackStrawb

      6 months ago

      @jvent The 2023 version of Senga, Ace, asks “am I chopped liver to you?”

      They’re not getting Sasaki, and I think they made a serious run at Crochet, but the Red Sox’s ‘take it or we have to move on’ offer blew the Mets out of the water. The Mets weren’t prepared to counter with Sproat, plus two of their top three position player prospects, plus another prospect.

      Can the Mets make this the second year of a perennial World Series threat by spending $350 million plus $100 million in penalties, and building a team of free agents around an over-30 core? Probably not.
      They’ll get a boost for a year or two then start paying a heavy price.

      Say they add Corbin Burnes for 8/240m. They’d need three big bullpen arms at 10m each by AAV. They’d need two serious hitters, maybe Bregman for 8/200m and Teoscar at DH for 4/80m. Payroll’s now $355m and they’re still not as good as the Dodgers, and the pitching still isn’t as good as the Phillies.

      That’s what happens when the farm isn’t turning out more than the occasional pretty good prospect.

      2
      Reply
  38. RynoScoobs

    6 months ago

    A rotation of 5’s.

    3
    Reply
  39. dasit

    6 months ago

    40th in the sport in innings pitched at least you know the guy will take his starts when needed. i see people referencing the pitching lab. is this something stearns brought with him or does it predate him? yankees have “the gas house” in tampa where they do some secret alchemy to add velocity

    1
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      6 months ago

      They signed 2 40 year olds for 43 million before Stearns if that answers your question.

      Reply
      • Fernando P

        6 months ago

        @YourDreamGM – 37 and 39 year olds that are sure fire HOFs. One was 15-4 2.46 era and the other was 18-4 league-leading 1.75 era and won the Cy Young the year before Cohen handed out those deals.

        It didn’t work out but they were coming off immensely better seasons than Montas, Holmes or Canning.

        1
        Reply
  40. thecheddahbob

    6 months ago

    As a Mets fan, this off-season has been unbearable. The Mets now have 7 candidates for the 4 and 5 spot, with no real proven starters other than Senga, who is coming off an injury. This feels like a typical LA Angels off-season: sign a big name free agent and completely ignore the cannon ball sized holes in your rotation (ie – Hamilton, Pujols, Ohtani, Rendon). Maybe I’m just a pessimistic Mets fan, but the Mets making that run in June where they became buyers at the deadline instead of sellers really crippled the franchise. They had 19 free agents this year, including 13 that were contributors to the 25 man roster. Those guys were all supposed to be pieces at the deadline to stockpile the minors so that they could then flip them this off-season for guys like Crochet, Bellinger, and Hoerner. Instead Stearns is bargain shopping and hoping to piece together a rotation with rejected parts

    5
    Reply
  41. LordD99

    6 months ago

    This is the Stearns curse. Build a team that makes the postseason but never makes the final show.

    3
    Reply
    • icantstandyous

      6 months ago

      Bingo. Luck runs out eventually. He’s going to get slaughtered if his little army of #5 starters performs to their expectations. I’ve never seen a team win without above avg pitching. Especially with a line up like this. No 4th or 5th hitter. Oh and if he is willing to pay $4mm for 6th and 7th starters why are we not investing in reputable arms in the bullpen. Did he watch the dodgers series where they coughed every lead up immediately after they scored!

      3
      Reply
  42. Rsox

    6 months ago

    Odds are (unfortunately) better that Canning makes more starts for the Mets next season than Blackburn

    1
    Reply
  43. yankswang

    6 months ago

    Mets have no Ace in rotation…Senga maybe the man if healthy.

    Reply
  44. Fernando P

    6 months ago

    When Soto thought the Mets had a better future than the Yankees, I don’t think he envisioned a starting staff with Montas, Canning, Blackburn and a RP converting to SP.

    2
    Reply
    • DrDick

      6 months ago

      That starting rotation doesn’t even get the Mets to the playoffs. As always, the Mets are a clown show.

      1
      Reply
  45. Baseballisthebest

    6 months ago

    Canning doesn’t throw hard, 93-94, so if he didn’t have pinpoint control he is in trouble.

    He also has a very short stride and extension off the mound. Watching him pitch I have always thought that he needed to work on building leg strength and take a longer stride and get more extension down the mound. As they say, pitch downhill. Possibly add a hitch to provide some measure of deception.

    Stearns is one of the best at getting just a bit extra out of pitchers, so Canning might just be a decent #5-#6 starter for the Mets. If not he is relatively cheap.

    Now go get an Ace to pair with Senga come playoff time.

    2
    Reply
  46. GooseGoslinGuy

    6 months ago

    Soon as I saw this headline, I knew it was a Ken Rosenthal rumor monger special. Like an old biddy who likes to gossip over the back fence, Ken’s headlines are never about trades that are for sure; instead, they are about trades possibly in the works, so that Ken maintains his Granny Nostradamus status. With Ken, it’s not about anything but being seen as first with the news. Strange midget dude with the bow ties.

    1
    Reply
  47. bravesfan

    6 months ago

    They can have him. If both the Braves and the angel didn’t want to pay him at that cost, and both need pitching at the moment, he’s not worth it at all. I know the Mets have silly money but it’s not like the angel and Braves are hurting and couldn’t have afforded that arb salary

    1
    Reply
  48. Yankeesforever

    6 months ago

    with their current pitching staff, Mets better hope for that golden at-bat rule. They are gonna need Soto to come up a lot.

    1
    Reply
    • Boodge106

      6 months ago

      Literally everyone said this about the Mets last offseason when they signed Manaea and Severino. Their starting pitching ending up being the strength all year, despite Senga throwing 6 innings total for the season. Also, it is only December 19th right now.

      1
      Reply
  49. jesseglaubitz

    6 months ago

    Not sure I understand the point of this move unless they can send him to AAA, which it doesn’t seem they can unless it’s a split contract. Anybody know if that’s the case or is that information not available? Depth is great, thought I can’t see a lot of upside. Still really hoping the bring Sean Manaea back.

    1
    Reply
  50. matt11209

    6 months ago

    He has been a less than mediocre pitcher his entire career. This is a waste of $4.5 million. They could have randomly picked up any AAA starter and got the same quality pitcher.

    1
    Reply
  51. bbgods

    6 months ago

    Not a fan of this signing. If he could be optioned, it would be fine, but I don’t want him to occupy an active roster spot unless it’s as a long reliever.

    1
    Reply
  52. Canosucks

    6 months ago

    As a long time Mets fan growing up in NY and now also an Angels fan living in Anaheim; painful for me to see.
    Angels had Trout and Ohtani together with no pitching and I guess the Mets figure Soto and no pitching will win?

    Pitcher,they let go in rule 5 draft has more potential.

    Angels have NO pitching

    Mets still don’t have an ACE

    Reply
    • larkraxm

      6 months ago

      Or a number two…or three. They have a four, a five, and a head scratcher.

      Reply

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