The Giants are moving Camilo Doval back into the closing role, manager Bob Melvin told reporters after Wednesday’s loss to the Tigers (video provided by Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area). Ryan Walker, who has held the job since the middle of April, is moving into a setup capacity. He pitched the eighth inning while trailing by a run during today’s game.
Walker only allowed one run through his first eight appearances. He has been more up-and-down since then, giving up multiple runs in four of his most recent 14 outings. Walker has still successfully closed out 10 of 12 save chances, but he carries an earned run average approaching 5.00. His strikeout rate, which sat north of 32% a season ago, is down to a pedestrian 21.6% clip this season.
While Walker will still receive his fair share of high-leverage assignments, Doval has recaptured the ninth inning with a fantastic first couple months. The hard-throwing righty owns a 1.16 ERA across his first 23 1/3 innings. He has given up six runs (three earned) all season, all of which came in a three-game span between April 4-7. Doval is closing in on a two-month scoreless streak that has spanned 18 innings. Opponents have collected four hits while striking out 18 times during that stretch.
The 27-year-old looks to have rediscovered the form that made him an All-Star two seasons ago. Doval led the National League with 39 saves in 2023 and posted consecutive sub-3.00 ERA showings between 2022-23. Things went off the rails in the second half of last season. Doval couldn’t find the strike zone, eventually costing him the closing job and his spot on the MLB roster altogether. The Giants optioned him back to Triple-A in August. They brought him back up in September, but he continued to struggle in lower-leverage situations.
San Francisco rebuffed trade interest in Doval over the winter, preferring not to sell low on an obviously talented arm. They’ve been rewarded for their patience with a rebound that could earn him another All-Star selection this summer. Doval is making $4.525MM and remains under arbitration control for two seasons beyond this one.
This was figured weeks ago. Just a matter of the right time to do it. I love what the bullpen is doing as we all do. I am semi happy with the rotation but with a better offense, the rotation would probably be better as well. The offense has been vacant. Perhaps a power hitting left handed first baseman ??? Just a matter of time there as well. Catcher ? Perhaps next season. Trade a gold glove catcher for more offense. And Lee should be the leadoff man now. Stack the top of the order first and foremost. Ramos 2 hole is great. The makeup is a little off. Chapman and Adames are anchors Not 5, 6 hitters who do nothing. But they’re with us for another handful of seasons. Have to make it work with these guys.
Moronic GM. I said this last year, Doval is a top 5 closer. He messed up a couple times and they removed him from the closer role. Absolutly destroyed his confidence
Walker’s 2024 was better than any season Doval has had in his career. So if he were indeed a top 5 closer last year Walker was a top 4 or better.
As far as Doval’s confidence, he’s now pitching better than he ever has, so not sure how it has been destroyed.
Doval destroyed himself. He is a big boy. His “destroyed confidence” feelings didn’t get in the way of his 2025 success.
It’s just the mercurial nature of closers. Most closers throw two pitches, and if command is off on either one they can appear to have lost it. Only the best stay dominant year after year.
To be fair most pitchers are basically 2 pitch pitchers with a few show me pitches. Closers usually throw one big pitch E.G. Rob Dibble threw the fastball. Mariano Rivera threw the cutter. Chapman throws a fastball. Devin Williams throws that change up when he was closing. All of these guys obviously had more than that, but they are known for the one pitch. So if that’s off they are in real trouble. Mercurial is right!!
Chris from NJ, I guess you mean most relief pitchers are 2 pitch pitchers. I don’t know if that’s true or not. but I think you’d be hard pressed to find any 2 pitch starting pitchers.
90% of starters are basically 2 pitch pitchers with a few show me pitches. Your Uber talents have 3. Skenes throws a fastball/splitter. He has a great slider so he’s a 3 pitch guy. Kershaw throws a fastball/curveball. Clemens was fastball/split. Pedro fastball/circle change with a wicked curve. Randy Johnson threw fastball/slider. Do you see what I’m getting at? All starters have 4 to 6 pitches in total but 2 to 4 of those pitches aren’t going to be thrown much. Your closers really have one big pitch E.G. Rivera throwing the cutter. He has a 4 seamer and a sinker but he’s known for the cut fastball. Dibble threw more than heat but nobody talks about his breaking stuff.
Not sure where you’re getting your info.
From Fangraphs:
Paul Skenes 2025 pitch usage: Fastball 36.3%, Splitter 22.7%, Sinker 6.6 %, Slider 21.7%, Curve 4.8%, Changeup 7.9%.
Skenes throws the slider almost as often as the splitter. And, I can guarantee you that he isn’t throwing curves and changeups merely as a show me pitch. The low percentage pitches work since the hitter isn’t looking for them as much. Throwing a pitch less than 10% does not make it irrelevant. He has as many outs above average on his changeup, 3.6, as he does with his splitter. His most outs above average, 6.5 come with his slider.
Skenes is throwing the fastball less than 40% of the time. That means he throws less than 5 fastballs per changeup. That changeup cannot be dismissed as low usage and therefore irrelevant.
I’m sorry but Clemens, Pedro, Johnson, Dibble etc. are not relevant. That was baseball from more than a decade ago,.to 3 decades ago.
@Chris Nowhere near 90% of SP’s are basically 2 pitch arms. Fangraphs and many others track these things, it is simply not reality.
You right it’s probably higher then 90. As I’ve said now for a 3rd time. ALL pitchers have more then 2 pitches usually 4 to 6. Of those 4-6 pitches your starter is going to lean on his 2 best pitches. Fastball/Slider or Fastball/Split. It doesn’t matter if it’s today, tomorrow, or 20 years ago. Closers and most relievers have one big pitch. The rest are just show me pitches.
Are you joking? You think any successful starter is going to rely solely on fastball/slider eith no offspeed pitch?? Most starters have 3 pitches or more used regularly. Your assumptions here are utterly false.
FYI the average # of pitch types a MLB starring pitcher has is 4.23 that are thrown a minimum of 5% of all pitches thrown.
Your proving my point. Skenes is special so he has 3 pitches. He is throwing the slider more to get people off the split. He throws 3 pitches. He is an outlier. But he still throws 3 pitches. With the way pitching has changed your not going to see Skenes throw just change ups or curveballs. Clemens, Martinez, and Johnson are relevant. They pitched in the last 2 generations and are big reasons on why a pitcher isn’t going to go with his 4th best pitch. Just an opinion that’s plan to see. Especially with Skenes. What pitch is he famous for? That hybrid split. I’m not saying his change or curve are garbage but he obviously doesn’t have the confidence in them that he does with his FB/Split/Slider.
The average across all MLB pitchers is 4.23 pitches that they use regularly. Your point is absolutely wrong.
A slider is an off speed pitch. Yes a pitcher now a days will go out there and throw his fastball let’s say 50% of the time his slider 30% of the time. The other 3 pitches are all in that 20%. Let’s say a slider isn’t a breaking ball (which makes it an off speed pitch,90mph or not), Do I think a pitcher needs an off speed pitch? Of course. But if you don’t throw a change or a curveball as well as a fastball or a slider, then why throw them. The game has changed so much in pitching. Just like hitting has changed. There weren’t launch angles being tracked 10 or 15 years ago.
Yes I stand corrected by definition a slider is by definition an offspeed pitch. They are typically thrown much harder so what I was referring to was a pitch with a much more significant speed to throw pitchers off.
Regardless, the bottom line is the average starting pitcher in todays game has an arsenal on average with 4.23 pitches. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.
“…if you don’t throw a change or a curveball as well as a fastball or a slider, then why throw them.”
That makes zero sense. They throw them to get outs. As I noted above Skenes has just as many outs above average with his changeup as he does with his splitter, and more than his fastball.
He’s getting outs with his changeup, which is obviously why he throws it, even though it’s used a fairly low percentage of the time. There’s no doubt that Skenes is using the fastball to set up the changeup. The issue is, how effective a pitch is in getting outs, not how often a pitch is used.
Plus some pitchers will not use a pitch against RHHs, but will against LHHs. So usage may be lower for that pitch, but that doesn’t make it ineffective.
Starting pitchers need 4 or more pitches to keep hitters from looking for a particular pitch. If a guy uses only 2 pitches, batters will look for one or the other, since they know they’ll be getting one in the AB. The difference between baseball today, and from earlier, is the fastball count does not exist anymore. Pitchers today will throw any pitch at any time.
When did I say if you don’t “throw a change or a curve as well as a fastball or a slider,then why throw them”? Skenes is a quality starter with 3 pitches. Look at the numbers you gave me. He primarily throws FB/Slider/Split. I get it quality of pitches. The MLB of today is definitely not any pitch at anytime. That’s a small minded way of pitching. If you can’t hit the change they will keep throwing you the change up until you show that you can hit it. I’ve seen countless at bats where it’s 2 pitches the fastball sets up the slider or split or whatever your out pitch is.
I’ve never said it wasn’t a fact. I’ve said it 3 times that MLB starters have 4-6 pitches. 2 or 3 of those 4-6 a starter will throw 75-90% of the time. Which isn’t an opinion either. It’s a fact
5 pitches thrown above 5% of the time. That 5% is widely used as a threshold for what is considered a regularly used pitch. And four of those 5 used 10% or more.
This isn’t the hill to die on. Statistics prove your claim false. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed about being wrong. However refusing to admit one is wrong is a different story…
fangraphs.com/players/paul-skenes/33677/stats?posi…
5% is a regularly used pitch? No, that’s a pitch that isn’t used much. I could agree with maybe 10%. And what you are showing me is an ace. A number 1 starter. Who throws 3 pitches. If you want to keep arguing that’s fine. Why would I say I’m wrong when I’m not. So every pitcher has similar stuff to Skenes?Your looking at trees and not the forest.
Well staticians and must MLB analysts say otherwise. I’m gonna defer to the experts here. And the number given as the average # of pitchers for a MLB starting pitcher is 4.23 types of pitches, that is not an opinion that is a fact.
What I posted was a direct quote, copied and pasted from your post. Are you saying you didn’t say why throw a pitch if it’s not as good as others?
“Skenes is a quality starter with 3 pitches.”
Wrong. Skenes is a quality starter with 6 pitches.
The flaw in your argument is your assertion that a pitch that’s used less than 10% can’t be counted as a part of that pitcher’s arsenal.
Skenes has averaged about 99 pitches per game in his last 5 games. He throws the changeup 7.9% of the time. So his average number of changeups was over 12 per game. Since his outs above average for his changeup is tied for 2nd best among his pitches that means he’s getting outs with it.
And a pitcher doesn’t even need to be getting outs, for a pitch to be effective. Pitchers will occasionally steal a strike with a first pitch curve.
I think you don’t really understand what pitching is about. But, it’s absurd to claim that the pitches used most frequently are the only viable pitches, and a pitch used less than 10% of the time cannot be counted as part of the guy’s arsenal.
What I is that you really like Skenes and are another one who can’t see the trees from the forest. If Skenes change and curve where as good as his split and slider he would be throwing those pitches a lot more. It’s pitching. You go with your best. On some days his change may be better on a day by day basis. But again Skenes is a very good pitcher with 3 dynamic pitches and 2 good pitches. What I don’t understand is how is it absurd that the pitches used most frequently are the most viable? Think about what you said. The pitches used most are the most viable. You wouldn’t throw it I’d it didn’t get results. I understand. You like all his pitches. I get it. Go Skenes. Go Bucs.
You clearly do not understand pitching. The way you see it is too simplistic. You believe that a pitcher finds one pitch that the batter has trouble with and just throws that pitch over and and over, but that’s not correct. You will occasionally see 3 straight sliders for a K when it’s obvious the batter is not picking up the spin. But it’s not typical, and could be due to that particular pitcher’s slider vs. that batter, or maybe just the conditions. ML batters will hit any pitch if they see it over and over. Throwing one pitch over and over, because a batter might have trouble with it is a recipe for disaster for that pitcher.
I used Skenes simply because you mentioned him. (And the saying is “not see the forest for the trees” btw.) But he is not that different from most other SPs. Skenes isn’t great just because he has 6 pitches. If it were that easy everyone would do that.
The Giants have used 7 starters this season. Kyle Harrison, 3 pitches, is the only one of the 7 that throws less than 4. Roupp throws 6 pitches, Webb, Verlander have 5, and Ray, and Hicks both throw 4.
In 2025, Webb throws the 4-seamer only 6.6% of the time, yet it has a 26.0% PutAway rate. He also has a great changeup that he throws at 19.2%, and has his highest PutAway rate, 29.2% If you don’t realize that he’s using his 4-seamer and sinker to set up his changeup, or vice versa, then you know squat pitching.
All pitchers use every pitch in their entire arsenal in conjunction with every other pitch. You’ll see 3 fastballs, to set up the batter for 1 changeup. for the outpitch.. They’ll use fastballs against both LHHS and RHHs, but will only use a particular off-speed pitch against one side of the plate. So the fastball use rate will be higher than the other 2, but it might be the other 2 that are the more effective.
This simplistic take, that the only pitches that matter are the ones the pitcher throws the most, is not close to how pitchers work. Why would a pitcher like Webb throw 5 pitches if only 2 or 3 are effective? Webb throws the 4-seamer and cutter together just 14% of the time. Think he’s throwing them just for fun?
Pitchers aren’t throwing pitches that don’t accomplish something. But don’t take my word for. Find someone that’s pitched in college, or some professional league and ask them. You need to be educated in the art of pitching.
Why people continue to take you, Metsin7, seriously is a mystery.
@gravel because I’m a baseball genius
About the furthest thing from a genius. If one tries to be wrong, they’d be hard pressed to do so as consistently as you.
Tbf, Walker had such an elite season last year, so I don’t blame the Giants for keeping him as their closer to begin the season. They did decide to keep Doval anyhow, so they showed they still had belief that he could recapture his All-Star form, and he proved them right 🤷🏽♂️
I feel like walker deserves to be a closer on a lot of teams and this might complicate things in the bullpen
Could they get a good bat in return for him? Seems like Kansas City could be a suitor or Philadelphia or the cubs
KC needs a bat. Walker is highly unlikely to be traded and the Royals back end of the bullpen is strong.
Love the years the Giants pen is having. The outfield is fine.the whole infield has been a offensive disappointment.
Melvins lineups are baffling.
Offense started off pretty good. Got kind of spoiled from that. Problem now is almost everyone cooled off at the same time. Should swing back around soon. Long seasons of ups and downs. Pitching staying steady, and that’s huge. Luciano getting 1B starts in AAA, Encarnacion getting close so maybe help is on the way.
I’m going to repeat my complaint from last season. I think at least some of the blame for the hitting is Burrell and the other hitting coaches. The hitters have fallen into the same bad habits that made them a .701 OPS, 101 OPS+ team last season. Hacking at the first pitch that’s close to the strike zone, even in the first inning.
The 2nd game against the Nat’s is the perfect example. The Nat’s don’t have a good bullpen, and yet Irvin had a 7 pitch first inning, He went 8 full throwing only 96 pitches. I know the philosophy that maybe the best pitch to hit is the first one, but if those pitches were so good to hit why did the Giants have only 3 hits?
Every Giant saw Irvin 3 times. Wouldn’t they want to see more of his stuff early on? That would give them a better chance of recognizing whether that first pitch was worth swinging at.
I believe in a patient aggression, but the Giants’ hitters seem to be going to the plate with an overly aggressive approach, like they’re anxious to swing, or they’re afraid to hit with 2 strikes. Either they’re going to plate with a bad approach, or the hitters aren’t good at pitch recognition or lack bat to ball skills.
They did seem to work counts deeper early on. Hard to watch last couple of series. There’s time to turn it around though. Might be time to make an example out of someone, cough Wade cough cough.
Yeah, I get really agitated when I see one pitch one out to start a game. They definitely did work the pitcher more early on. I thought maybe word came down from Posey, or changes below Burrell were made, but it hasn’t lasted.
The trouble with dumping Wade is, he’s one of the few with a good approach at the plate. Granted, the results aren’t there, but he works the count, and doesn’t chase much. He has the 4th most walks on the team with the 7th most PAs. 35 fewer than 6th place Yaz.
Walker and Doval are just keeping the role warm for Randy Rodriguez down the road.
came to say this exact thing
Rodriguez’ numbers look strong on the surface but he has allowed 53% of inherited runs to score…. costing Hicks and Roupp victories recently. Yet Melvin keeps using him in high-leverage situations. Threw a center-cut fast-ball with two strikes and two outs yesterday.
IRS, one of my favorite stats. Should be in the pitching stats of the box score.
I think the Giants could stand to trade a relief pitcher plus? for some offense. The Giants have pitching depth in the minors right now. Hjelle is lights out. Everyone talks about Whisenhunt but this kid in Richmond is on a huge roll (Joe Whitman). Anyway, the Giants current bullpen is the most impressive I’ve seen in years.
Hope so. Hicks and Beck for me. The latter might even be on a little showcase.
Doval’s issues last year before he was sent down were his doing. Among them being aloofness. His stuff was still pretty good but he was walking too many, wasn’t paying attention to runners, wasn’t covering first base and letting the pitch clock run out many times. They sent him down to work on all those issues and on all counts he’s done all of that much better this year. More to being a closer than just good stuff.
I think Doval was mismanaged from a promotional perspective. Went too hard too early on the Camillo is a star. Wasn’t the same after the light show entrance. Too much, too early for the man. Here’s hoping they don’t bring it back.