The rebuild is underway in St. Louis. The Cardinals and Red Sox announced a trade sending right-hander Sonny Gray and cash considerations to Boston in exchange for righty Richard Fitts, left-handed pitching prospect Brandon Clarke and a player to be named later or cash. The Cardinals are reportedly including $20MM to help offset Gray’s salary.
Gray, who turned 36 earlier this month, opted not to waive his full no-trade clause last offseason when the Cardinals laid out their plan to take a step back and focus on player development rather than their typical win-now mantra. Following the team’s playoff miss in 2025, however, Gray publicly acknowledged that he would “definitely” consider trade scenarios as the Cardinals lean even further into a multi-year rebuilding effort. “I signed here two years ago with the expectation of winning and trying to win, and that hasn’t played out that way,” he said in September. “I want to win.”
He’ll get that opportunity to win in Boston, joining a Red Sox rotation headlined by Cy Young runner-up Garrett Crochet and an offense anchored by budding superstar Roman Anthony. Boston secured a Wild Card berth in the American League this past season, and though they fell to the Yankees two games to one in that series, they’re a clear win-now club with postseason aspirations. The same cannot be said for the Cardinals.
Gray was heading into the final guaranteed season of a three-year, $75MM contract originally signed in St. Louis, when he was coming off his own Cy Young runner-up performance with the 2023 Twins. It was a heavily backloaded contract, paying the right-hander $35MM in 2026 plus a $5MM buyout on a $30MM club option for the 2027 season. The contract stipulated that even if the option was picked up, Gray could opt out and head back into free agency.
That deal has been slightly restructured. The new arrangement pays Gray $31MM in 2026 and includes a $10MM buyout on a $30MM mutual option for 2027. The amended deal reinforces the fact that Gray is a one-year rental — it’s been more than a decade since a mutual option was exercised by both parties in MLB — but it also comes with some perks for him.
Gray is now guaranteed an extra million dollars — likely a kicker for him to waive his no-trade protection — and he’ll now receive the full buyout on his 2027 option. Under the previous contract, if the Red Sox had picked up Gray’s option, he’d have forfeited the $5MM buyout by opting back into free agency. Now, he’ll receive a fully guaranteed $41MM for one year.
Because the Cardinals are kicking in $20MM, only $21MM of Gray’s $41MM guarantee will count against the Red Sox’ luxury tax total. Gray has already received a qualifying offer in the past (from the Twins in ’23), so he won’t be eligible to receive one from the Red Sox at season’s end.
Gray tossed 180 2/3 innings of 4.28 ERA ball in 2025 and had a more encouraging 26.7% strikeout rate and 5% walk rate. Metrics like SIERA (3.29) and FIP (3.39) feel he was far better than his earned run average.
By today’s standards, Gray is a workhorse. With the exception of the shortened 2020 season (when he made 11 of 12 possible starts), the former first-round pick has started at least 24 games every year since 2019, averaging 29 starts per 162-game season in that time. Gray hasn’t gotten back to the level of performance he displayed in that second-place Cy Young finish with Minnesota, but he posted a 4.07 ERA, 28.4% strikeout rate, 5.4% walk rate and 43.2% grounder rate in 347 innings across his two seasons in St. Louis.
Gray will join Crochet and Brayan Bello in the top three spots of manager Alex Cora’s rotation. The remaining two places will be sorted out either later this offseason or next spring. Rotation candidates include veteran Patrick Sandoval (who signed a two-year deal last offseason while rehabbing Tommy John surgery), righty Kutter Crawford (who didn’t pitch in ’25 owing to oblique and wrist injuries, the latter requiring surgery), Payton Tolle, Connelly Early, Kyle Harrison, Hunter Dobbins and Luis Perales.
The Sox have several other starting pitchers on their 40-man roster, including a few just-added names (David Sandlin, Tyler Uberstine, Shane Drohan) ahead of the Rule 5 protection deadline. It’s a deep crop of arms that positions Boston well, both in terms of navigating inevitable injuries next year and in exploring the trade market for further roster upgrades.
Of course, the Red Sox don’t have to exclusively shop on the trade market for upgrades. Including Gray’s $21MM, the Sox are now projected for about $176.75MM in 2026 payroll, per RosterResource. That’s more than $30MM shy of last year’s spending, and it’s certainly feasible that ownership would push the envelope even further. Boston has trotted out Opening Day payrolls as high as $236MM in the past. The addition of Gray leaves them about $21MM shy of the first tier of luxury tax penalization. The Red Sox have paid the luxury tax in two of the past four seasons, including 2025. Simply put, there’s ample room for additional spending.
For the Cardinals, the trade trims $20MM off the books and brings in a pair of promising arms. Fitts is big league ready and could step right into the St. Louis rotation. The 25-year-old (26 next month) made 11 appearances for the Red Sox in 2025, including 10 starts. He was tagged for a 5.00 ERA in that time due to an extreme susceptibility to home runs (11 homers, or 2.20 HR/9). However, Fitts posted a respectable 20.5% strikeout rate and 8.2% walk rate in the majors, and he was solid in the minors as well (3.60 ERA, 21.3 K%, 8.7 BB% in 30 innings).
Originally a sixth-round pick by the Yankees back in 2021, Fitts landed in Boston by way of the 2023 Alex Verdugo trade. (Though new Cardinals president of baseball ops Chaim Bloom formerly ran the front office in Boston, he’d already been replaced by Craig Breslow by the time of that trade, so there’s no prior connection between Fitts and Bloom.) Fitts ranked 11th among Red Sox farmhands in 2024 and 12th in 2025, per Baseball America, whose scouting report pegged him as a back-of-the-rotation starter or multi-inning reliever.
Fitts averaged a hearty 95.9 mph on his four-seamer in 2025 and complemented the pitch with a slider, curveball and newly implemented sinker. BA’s scouting report on the righty noted that he struggles to miss bats within the zone, and the numbers have thus far borne that out. Fitts missed bats off the plate with his sweeper/slider, but opponents made contact on 87.5% of his pitches within the strike zone — a couple percentage points higher than the 85.4% league average. The addition of that sinker/two-seamer looks to have helped Fitts bolster his ground-ball rate, as it enjoyed a nice bump both in Triple-A and the majors, now sitting at 43.6% — just north of the 41.8% league average.
Whether Fitts settles in as a fourth starter or moves into a bullpen role, he should pitch plenty of innings in St. Louis this season. He’s controllable for a full six seasons, as he finished the year eight days shy of one full year of major league service. Fitts also still has a pair of minor league option years remaining, which only gives the Cardinals more flexibility with him in the years ahead.
Clarke, 22, was Boston’s fifth-round pick in 2024. He sat fourth among Red Sox prospects (and 86th in the game overall) on the midseason rankings from FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen. Clarke ranked fifth among Red Sox prosects on MLB.com’s midseason rankings. He was not included in Boston’s top 10 on yesterday’s latest prospect rankings from Baseball America.
Though he was drafted in ’24, Clarke didn’t make his pro debut until ’25. He split this past season between the Red Sox’ Low-A and High-A affiliates, working to a combined 4.03 ERA in 38 innings (14 starts). Clarke sits 97 mph with his heater and draws praise for a plus-plus (70-grade) slider. He currently lacks an average third pitch, however, and his command is clearly a work in progress. That velocity and slider combo blew hitters away in the low minors (34.5% strikeout rate), but Clarke also walked a whopping 15.5% of his opponents — including an 18.1% walk rate in High-A against more advanced hitters.
Listed at 6’4″ and 220 pounds, Clarke has a starter’s build and two potent weapons in his arsenal. The new Bloom-led Cardinals will be tasked with refining Clarke’s command and perhaps incorporating a third pitch to help him more capably combat right-handers, who drew a walk in nearly 18% of their plate appearances against Clarke. If Clarke can’t find a third pitch or hone his command any further, it’s easy to imagine that fastball/slider combo playing up in a late-inning relief role.
Overall, it’s a nice return for the Cardinals, who secure an MLB-ready arm and a high-risk but high-upside prospect — all while trimming $20MM off the books. Today’s trade only further cements that the Cardinals are shifting their focus to the future. Further trades are sure to follow, with Brendan Donovan, JoJo Romero, Willson Contreras, Nolan Arenado and Lars Nootbaar among the possibilities.
As for the Red Sox, they’ll pay a relatively steep price (both in terms of dollars and talent) to add a durable veteran starter with plus rate stats and a nice postseason résumé (3.26 ERA in 30 1/3 innings). Gray clearly makes them better, and the Boston front office seems comfortable paying a higher short-term price to maintain some long-term flexibility. Whether they pursue further upgrades in the rotation or now turn their attention to the infield corners, the bullpen or their oft-discussed outfield logjam, the Red Sox have payroll space and a nice stock of young pitching to give them plenty of options in further augmenting their 2026 roster.
Jon Heyman of the New York Post first reported that Gray was being traded to Boston. ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported the Cardinals’ return. The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported specifics surrounding the slight restructuring of Gray’s contract. MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo reported the specific amount of cash Boston was receiving from St. Louis.



Should be interesting to see how much money STL is sending to BOS along with Gray.
Please tell me it’s for a prospect and Yoshida.
I’m wish this is the case
Zero chance.
FPG gets 2 upvotes in less than a minute. Someone has multiple windows open.
Awwww, somebody sounds jealous of somebody else getting more likeys….
You got 2 upvotes in 1 minute too.. Lol. I think we know what FPG’s 2nd account name is today.
Reggie Smith: Why do you concern yourself with such nonsense? How does any of it harm you?
Everyone here is the same person except you. Imagine that.
8 up votes for that comment? 11 for the other one? Lol,
I am Spartacus.
Maybe I am also FPG?
Youve been around forever, youre a Pads fan not a Yankee fan. ‘
‘Alfred E Neuman’ and ‘Lloyd Emerson’? Ever hear of them? Maybe very new posters that never say anything except to speak up to defend strangers.
@Gwynning: All good. Just as long as you’re not Never Remember/blackpink/Joel etc…………………………………………………..
Lol Jefe
No Reggie, I’ve been signed up here since 2016. You’re just paranoid.
15 upvotes, wow. Best Comment on the page, so far. Who are you again?
For what it’s worth, Reggie… the mobile app doesn’t show upvotes or allow you to upvote. If you guys ever get upvotes from me (and y’all have…) then I’m my laptop at work. Haha
Gwynn – And maybe I’m Keith Hernandez.
youtu.be/Lr0ggLKhH1I?si=ThbrdN46UzO4Oxcu
I actually like Lloyd and Alfred, Phillies and Mets fans respectively I believe? I could be off base, but they’re both established posters.
I can’t speak for Alfred but I’m a Cubs fan.
I was 50/50 on Phils/Cubs! My bad Lloydy, Happy Thanksgiving bud 🤙🏽😎
Thanks, and same to you!
Reggie- Have no idea what all of the upvote comments are. I am late to the party and just seeing this move. Not what I was hoping for, definitely don’t see Gray as our next ace.
Gray absolutely stunk in New York, Boston is another intense place to play ..I see Sonny boy bombing again.
Reggie Smith, You should probably go outside at some point to get some fresh air
Reggie Smith: It’s 17 upvotes now. What, me worry?
That got a good chuckle outta me. Thanks.
Snark – Why would the Cards want Yoshida? His contract will expire before they come out of the rebuild.
Well I guess everyone can blame me for this trade, whenever I say “Anybody but such and such” the Sox end up acquiring such and such and it turns out to be a disaster. Last time it was Giolito.
Let’s hope this isn’t the “co-ace” that Sox management has been talking about acquiring. Obviously the dude doesn’t have a very good track record playing in tough environments.
Fever, do you see this as an overpay? First I understand but while admittedly I haven’t seen Clarke pitch, I thought he was a good prospect. Boston is a hotbed like NY and we saw how Gray did with the Yankees.
FPG
This cannot be the top of rotation piece the Sox need. We discussed Gray before. If they pencil him in as a #3/4 , that’s fine. I don’t want his money to interfere with the Sox acquiring a big time bat. Wow, did not see this coming. They still need a #2 pitcher. I will say I do think they improved,but must do more for the starting rotation.
dewey – Yes I do. This year he had his worst season since 2018, they are basically paying him $21M to be an innings-eater. Whereas I think only injuries can keep Biff from becoming a solid middle of the rotation starter, and Clarke has good potential.
Gray figures as a back of the rotation arm with upside at this point in his career. Lots of innings with solid numbers the last few years. Crochet, TBD, Bello, Gray, #5 roulette is a solid rotation if they fill in that TBD with the “true #2” they’re supposedly looking for.
cdc – That’s exactly why I’m concerned.
Let’s say Breslow wasn’t lying when he said they will be targeting a solid #2 SP because they already have enough #3-5 SP’s …….. if he was telling the truth, then Gray is the #2.
Let’s hope he was lying again.
To me, he’s Gio’s replacement and I’d prefer Gio with Clarke and Fitts available for another deal. Wondering what Giolito’s deal ends up like.
FPG:
“Last time it was Giolito”
——————–
No, actually the last time was Crochet. This is what you said:
“this is a horrible decision and I knew it was gonna happen when they refused to include Teel with Anthony & Campbell as untouchable. A blatant panic move because they are too damn cheap to pay market rates for guys like Fried and Snell.”
—————
Seems you only remember when youre right.
cdchi: They already have their top of the rotation piece. His name is Garrett Crochet.
FPG – this is my concern. I’d love for them to add another arm, but I don’t see it happening.
I hope I’m wrong but…
Mad
Crochet is the #1 . He is not enough. WS contenders and winners need more than 1 top of the rotation guys. IMO ,Gray at this point is not an ace or considered a #2. You need more than 1 top of the rotation guy.
Think you are right, Joemo. I wouldn’t object to another top arm, somebody who will slot ahead of Gray/Bello, but I don’t expect that at this point.
Reggie Smith: How do you even remember something like that? Do you keep some kind of spreadsheet?
And again, why do you concern yourself with nonsense? Don’t you have your own life?
cdchi: Oh well, you can’t have everything in life.
Step 1) Assume FPG hates every Red Sox transaction
Step 2) Recall most recent pitcher the Red Sox acquired
Step 3) Google “MLBTR Red Sox acquire Crochet”
Step 4) Copy/Paste whatever he said about the deal
Its that easy
The constant FPG bragging is ridiculous. Tell him or yourself to cut out all the hate on the Red Sox. Its annoying and been going on too long.
Totally wrong. Gray is a 1/2 in any rotation (look at the FIP not the ERA, and pitches a lot of innings).
This is a good trade – wins for both teams.
Reggie Smith: If it bothers you so much, learn to ignore it or let it go and get on with your life.
Seems my post bothered you. You could do the same, maybe practice what you preach.
2.83, 3.12, 3.39–Last 3 years of Gray’s FIP
That’s not a back of the rotation starter. He’s been durable and K/W ratio is borderline elite. He’s no worse than a #3.
Reggie Smith: No, I don’t concern myself with who has how many accounts or who said what last year or the year before.
You should consider changing your handle to Busybody. 🤣
Speaking of busybody, you seem to be tracking my comments now. You sure its not bothering you FPG?
You do notice my post of your requotes has 9 upvotes. I dont think Im alone.
Thanks for pointing out the new York track record. I have doubts. I think the trade value is fine in a vacuum, But I still don’t like this. Unless they add a better pitcher too, but they won’t.
Reggie Smith: I’m not FPG. But you’re a busybody.
Will you go away if I throw a stick? Go fetch!
Well, you do seem awfully adamant about defending him.
Just saying its odd, if youre not him.
I’m actually Reggie Smith.
LOL
Reggie Smith: Not nearly as odd as you are.
Sure, whatever you say FPG. As the Joker would say ‘Why so Serious?’
plot twist Reggie Smith is FPG
Dewey – that was 8yrs ago, I cant imagine that Gray cant pitch in a high pressure City now……
Love the handle as Reggie Smith also belongs in the hall (the ex-player). That said, if you have an iPhone, mute anyone you don’t want to hear from.
cdchi – If i had to bet, think the Sox dont want to carry any more money than they absolutley need to into 2027.
Again, if i were betting, i would say this is it for the SP upgrades this year
To me, all signs point to Paul Skenes in 2027 and five years of Crochet – Skenes following .
FPG – i think Gray was the victim of a bad buillpen and a bad team overall in the 2nd half of last year.
The plan is thus:
1) trade for SP with someone off the 26 man, and a lesser prospect
2) sign a free agent bat
3) offer Cherington the entire farm system, and a job for when he gets fired for trading Skenes to the Sox (lol)
Meow- this is it, there is no “true #2”
BTW, if the Sox had Gray starting game two, they beat the Yankees
FPG – you know i despise Breslow……..but he’s not lying this time, he thinks this is a #2
Remember what George Costanza always says….”its not a lie, if you believe it”
Robb – with a slight revision, i think at this stage of his career, Gray is a #2 B or a #2ish pitcher, but, with a significant offensive upgrade for the lineup hes a good enough #2 for this team
To be clear I like Sonny Gray as a rotation upgrade, but I think FIP may overestimate his performance a little bit, since the formula for it is entirely based on walks, HRs, and Ks and doesn’t consider what sort of contact profile he allows. This is a fair equalizer overall, but Gray has been at or below average in terms of barrel rate, hard hit rate, and consequently opponent exit velo. Statcast’s expected ERA has him in the ~3.70 range, which is right in like with the 3.63 he’s posted in the last three seasons.
Sad.Sox 3: You know that those ranking numbers are meaningless to people working in front offices and actually making the decisions, don’t you?
Fans like you are the only people concerned with them.
Come on, Sonny Gray is a far better pitcher than Giolito. And how Sonny did with the Yankees several years ago has no bearing at all on what he will do with the Sox.
You’re not alone.
He is a #2 starter.
dewey – You can mute anybody on desktop or Android too!
I muted him years ago when his obsession with me and stalking of me became too much, so thankfully I can’t see what he’s writing here. However I do find the responses to him very amusing and enjoyable. Sense of humor is always a good thing ;O)
Fever, I like his signature name so until now I didn’t mute him. The rest of the comments became much easier to go through….
A bad team around you doesn’t cause you to give up too many home runs
sad – If the Sox traded for Skubal this winter and Skenes next winter, would they have the best rotation in MLB history? Quite possibly.
sad – I use that quote all the time!
As for Breslow, I guess we have to wait until he’s interviewed. I am fairly certain at least one reporter will ask him if that’s it for SP help.
Fever- Unfortunately I think this is the other ace they were looking for. Gray was near the top with strikeouts so that must make him an ace. If that is the case this is disappointing. He should be the #3 starter at best.
Dewey- I think the bigger issue is that Gray is not the dominant pitcher that is going to be the difference maker. He is likely to be a replacement for Gio rather than the #2 we need. I am not sure what the high mark is for Fitts, while not overly impressive in his small sample in the majors I don’t know what they are projecting for him. I don’t know anything about Clarke, so will be curious what others think.
Should have read your response, because I basically said the same thing in responding to you.
That would be great if that is what Breslow has planned. Could he really consider Gray to be anymore than an end of the rotation innings eater? This is going to be a very disappointing offseason if this is the big move.
Uncle, Fitts hasn’t been able to stay on the field. That’s his biggest issue. I also see Gray as a Giolito replacement.
I think it’s unconscionable that the Red Sox were allowed to accumulate so much starting pitching depth. They have like friggin’ 10 starters. Where was Toronto, New York, Baltimore, Tampa in trying to block the RS from accumulating all this depth,?? Asleep at the wheel !!! Now if the Mariners and Red Sox get into the playoffs again, the M’s have ONE depth starter compared to Red Sox ELEVEN-TEEN depth starters!!! Nice heads up, rest of AL East, could have slowed these guys down but looks like it’s too late now. Freakin Juggarnaut in the making. My wish-casting for a Red Sox step-back season sure fell flat as well.
Only nine starters, if you don’t count Criswell, Drohan, Perales, or Sandlin. Maybe they have enough to make it through the season? Fangraphs Depth Charts show Crochet, Gray, Bello, Sandoval, Crawford, Early, Harrison, Tolle, and Dobbins. Seems about right.
Trades for Crochet, Gray, Harrison, Sandlin as well as guys like Priester, Fitts, and Fajardo. Criswell as a lower tier free agent. Sandoval as a rehab special. Breslow likes his pitchers!
Much of the pitching depth in the minors the result of spending so many picks on physical pitching the last two years – with Tolle as the leading edge of the Beast Squad that he’s been collecting. Gotta wonder if the Red Sox are going to have enough position players going forward, but as long as he is having so much success with the pitching picks then I can’t really complain.
I prefer quality over quantity. Granted with all the injuries you can never have too much pitching.
What about his stats puts him as a #2 starter who is also supposed to be the second ace of the staff. He is an innings eater and strikes out a significant number of batters, but his other numbers don’t line up with being the second ace.
Dewey- With Fitts being so injury prone and Clarke still being in low A ball, I guess the only reason it would be an overpay is if it prevents them from getting a true second ace to back up Crochet. They certainly don’t need anyone else to compete for the # 3-5 positions.
Al – not sure what you mean by ranking numbers, you mean Ace, #1, #2 starter etc? It’s for ease of use in conversation.
Do you really think that I believe Breslow is calling around asking teams for “a number 2 starter”?
Dont be condescending, until you show me your Sports Management Degree from Yale or your pay stub from a MLB team, all you are is a fan also…….
FPG – thats right Fever, see everyone, we can be positive! LOL
His FIP (reflecting BB, K, and HR rate) has been consistently excellent, in the 2.83 to 3,40 range over the last four years, his xERA, reflecting the quality of contact, has been steady at 3.65 until last year when it rose to 3.90.
There are only 105 pitchers across the majors who survived for 120 innings last year. Among those his FIP ranked #17 and his xERA ranked #36. I would call a #17 ranking a 1B ace and a #36 ranking a solid #2.
His ERA last year was a little on the high side, but at least part of that was a bullpen which allowed 8 of 13 bequeathed runners to score. Give him the kind of support that Bello (5 of 19 scored) or Giolito (5 of 18) got and that’s already a 4-5 run improvement or enough to bring his ERA down to just over 4. Give him the kind of defensive support that Bello and Giolito enjoyed and his ERA improves further,
Basically there are two reasons to be skeptical of Gray. His ERA last year was a bit on the high side, on a bad team that offered him weak support, and he is 36 years old. The ERA is less predictive than the stronger FIP and xFIP, and the age isn’t a serious issue for one year – not when he is still getting it done.
Sad.Sox 3: My MBA is from Yale. Will that suffice?
Thanks for the analysis. I guess he is at least a step above Gio. Hopefully the increased ERA is not an indicator of decline. Chapman showed age is not everything.
While with the Yankees Gray gave up 2/3s of HRs at home. I haven’t seen a spray chart but Id guess 7 or 8 of the 11 HRs on 2018 were to LF. In 2017 8 of 11 HRs as a Yankee were at home, again Id suspect same.
That said pitching home games in NY might have affected him to some degree. Id say another larger factor would be the stadium itself. That short RF could be very unforgiving. Pro athletes are functioning often on muscle memory derived by repetition. Pitches he was accustoming to getting away with suddenly end up in the seats. That could ve been compounded by some level of pressure from environment. Sometimes certain parks are just configured in a way that parts of plate pitchers rely play as strengths and become pitches players wait on.
Nope
uncle – Well Breslow has spoken, sure sounds like this is the big SP move. He said now the primary focus is on getting a hitter. Sure doesn’t sound like they will be trading for a Peralta or Alcantara now.
Hopefully they are waiting out the possibility that Skubal goes on the trade market. I know, wishful thinking.
Uncle – It’s not just the increased ERA, it’s the increased WHIP and the decrease in velo.
He’s a step above an injured Gio, but not above a healthy Gio.
Nothing they’ve done makes me feel like that is coming. They are being on their prospects to line up behind crochet because they will be cheaper. Gray just fills the gap. He better have a career year.
I like him better than giolito at this point, but it’s still not the move I wanted.
Probably true that Gray was a better pitcher than Giolito. But last year Giolito har a 2.1 bWAR (pitching for the Sox), Gray was 1.4 bWAR. Giolito’s best season (2019, 5.4 bWAR) compares with Gray’s best seasons (although Gray has had more of them). Significantly, Giolito is 31, Gray is 36 and there is a much better chance of Giolito improving than Gray. Last off-season the Sox spent $21 million to put Walker Buehler in the rotation. I expect this will work out better than that, but if Gray turns in his third sub 2.0 bWAR season in a row, $21 million, plus prospects, is a lot to pay for that.
Bl
Giolitos now has a history with arm trouble. Gray is at least a durable pitcher that will have 30 starts and an era of around 4.00. I don’t think you can afford to think that way about Giolito. So I think the Sox have improved in that area. The Sox still need to acquire a legit #2 to be serious contenders along with a slugger.
Bronx – thank you for at least admitting that Gray is a better acquisition than Buehler. But, come on guys use your brains and eyes. Sonny Gray was:
#12 in total k’s
#11 in lowest FIP
#5 lowest BB/9
#4 highest k’s/9
#19 most innings pitched.
Now, use the eye test. Giolito pitched like a guy with trepidation regarding his arm. For the most part, uneven performances. Gray, on a bad team, with a bad bullpen, wasn’t an ace, or even who he used to be, but answered the bell every fifth day and did exactly what the Red Sox need, pitched deeper into games, and strick guys out. It makes me wonder how many of you actually watched a Sonny Gray start last year? This notion that somehow this is a drop-off, or lateral move from Giolito is insane. Gray is NOT the guy i was expecting either, but hes a significant upgrade, and, if he started Game 2 in the playoffs versus the Yankees, we probably win that series, simply based on the fact that we’re not into the bullpen in the third inning.
You guys can hate the move all you want, but remember two things. You need 4 other, yes at least 4, good starting pitchers after Crochet, and Fitts and Giolito aren’t them.
Bronx – Excellent analysis! I agree Sonny will probably perform better than Buehler, but that’s setting the bar kinda low.
People here seem to have very short term memory.
They somehow forget that Gio from June 5th thru the end of the season had a 2.51 ERA while averaging 6 innings over 19 starts.
2.51 ERA over 19 games ….. that’s damn good!
Sonny’s 4.28 ERA over 181 innings is nearly identical to Crawford’s 4.36 ERA over 184 innings.
It just seems like a waste to acquire Sonny, the usual Breslow “we can get him back to 2023 performance level” gamble.
That’s misleading though. Giolito was very good but intermittently was quite bad and he got hurt when we needed him most.
Tang – The numbers don’t lie. He started with a rough couple months coming back from surgery, and then he found a groove and stayed in it.
Yeah he got hurt at the very end of the season, all I’m saying is if he’s healthy he will be at the very least a solid #2 SP and certainly better than Sonny.
Tang -i thought and said he was ‘uneven’. You said ‘intermittently quite bad’.
How did I mislead?
lol “Giolito is certainly better than Sonny”
One of the luckiest pitchers in baseball last year. Just a really bad opinion. We’ll go ahead and bookmark that for next September.
Balt – You hitting the eggnog already?
Giolito didn’t pitch last year.
Fever- I thought I saw someplace that he said he has not closed the door on improving the pitching, but is focusing on the position players first. Maybe wishful thinking, but I can’t imagine Gray was the best they could do. I wonder if the asking price was way out of bounds for the better options.
I find it hard to believe they are done without having traded an outfielder.
Fever-I guess them throwing in the 20 million made him more appealing than resigning Gio. Not sure how healthy Gio is anyway. At least they didn’t get a reclamation project, Gray is not perfect but he seems to be durable.
Fever- I assume Gray’s durability was factored in since Gio went down with the injury at the end of the year. If he was healthy I was hoping they would resign him, but assumed Breslow was only going to get one pitcher to be the second ace so I did not expect a move like this. Now that he got Gray, he certainly did not get the ace they needed.
I forget about the $21 million on top of the $20 million they got in return, definitely seems like there were better options.
Good one, FPG. Certainly wouldn’t be referring to last season. We’ll just go ahead and skirt the ridiculous comment that Giolito is a better pitcher.
So good he walked 9 guys in his 2 last 2 starts and didn’t pitch in the postseason. Really hit his “stride”
Since they did not exactly impress with the pitching “upgrade”, I hope they do a better job bringing in offense. Bregman and Devers were a big part of the offense we did have, so to do better they are going to need to add a couple of significant bats.
Need to replace both Bregman and Devers, preferably with two RHH. Bregman himself is the best fit.
Nice post sad Sox! Everyone is always paranoid Thor team is getting ripped off. Plus Red Sox fans are a different bread. Pretty sure they’ve only been happy 3 days in all my 45 years. After they win the WS, they are allowed 1 day of happiness 😆
whiffa – What kind of bread do you think we are?
Personally I’d go with baguette ;O)
Alot. Crochet is a stud, Bello is decent, the rest are average arms.
It better be for a prospect or two
Brandon Clarke is a stud. This was a bad overpay unless the cardinals pay for 80 percent of Gray
are we over hyping the sox propects. it seems that those two could have been part of a package that would have brought back a sub 3 era pitcher.
If we can’t trust SoxProspects, what can we trust?
Every fan overhypes their team’s prospects. It’s the 20 mill that closed this deal.
@Fenway, SoxProspects had Clarke as the #8 prospect with a 4.5 “middle reliever or swingman” rating. He is still in A ball, pretty far from the majors, so he could end up as more than that or less than that. Good reason to be excited about Clarke’s chances, but it is far too early in his career for him to be guaranteed of success.
That said, other sources have Clarke a bit higher, with a 50 rating and as an outside top-100 pick. If you were to ask me, his likely outcome is as a late-inning reliever. But as you say, if you can’t trust SoxProspects, then who can you trust?
in today’s market, if you want a descent SP, you have to overpay. If you go the FA route, you will over pay with $$. If you go the trade route, you’ll over pay in prospects/players and even $$. Now, let’s hope that Gray is at least a descent pitcher or else this is a disaster for the Red Sox.
S_man_2014 – two things:
1) This is not even close to an overpay, Fitts isnt cracking the rotation and Clarke is 4 years away from sniffing the pros
2) Gray is a pro, you’ll get 30 starts, innings and k’s
It is an overpay. They are paying $20 millions dollars and gave up Fitts and Clarke for 1 year of a 36 year old who you are depending on getting 30 starts with IP and K’s. As a comparison, Chris Bassitt (similar player albeit a little older) just finished a season with similar stats was paid $21 million dollars. Wouldn’t it be more efficient for the Red Sox to sign Bassitt for a 1 year deal for the same money without having to part with Clarke and Fitts?
S_man_2014: But Bassitt might not wish to sign in Boston, so there goes that alternative.
S_Man – Bassitt pitched less innings, had less K’s and had a higher WHIP and FIP, and that was on a much better team. and bullpen, so no thanks. Bassitt is a FA, and you would have to wait and see if he’ll take one year, and if he wants Boston.
Fitts has no role on this team in 2026, no matter who is acquired, so he’s completely expendible.
If Breslow did his due diligence on Ryan, Alcantara he already (kinda) knows what they’re asking, so this is a decided underpay in his mind. PLus, we overpaid for Matz, so that was teh down payment lol
That’s true. I understand that paying Clarke and Fitts is the costs of doing business. But from a value standpoint, it’s an overpay.
I disagree… there is no such thing as too much starting pitching. Just look at the Dodgers this past season. He may not have been the top 5 SP, but with attrition, he could of been a useful depth piece. Attrition is what makes this deal even riskier. If Gray gets hurt, the Red Sox gave up a depth piece, a lottery ticket and $20M. IMO, I’d rather overpay for Bassitt to incentivize him to sign in BOS whether its in Dollars of guaranteeing an extra year.
S_Man – ok, you wanted Bassitt over this move. We all can feel the way we feel, i’m not hateing.
But, i can say with certainty that Fitts was not going to be a useful depth piece on ths team
Fitts and Clarke heading to SL
$20MM
Well thank god he ain’t goin to the Yankees!
99 capn I thought same thing if he wasn’t crazy about the Bronx and all that comes with it how is Boston gonna treat him? Not for us to worry about but when the Sox and Yankees are both very good everyone wins ….it’s great for the game and I hope for Sox fans that Sonny does a good job .
@Yankees fan in Chicago- definitely feeling Sonny can have success any where but New York. He still has great stuff, and I think he can really help the Red Sox this season for sure.
As a Yankee fan, I’m glad he’s not going to the Bronx, he was awful here. But not too glad he’s going to the Sox. This is a guy who has had three great seasons, with over 5.4 WAR in each. Not likely he’ll repeat that at 36. But even his 2025 performance would be valuable for Boston. He struck out 10 per 9 innings and walked less than 2. He made 32 starts and threw 180 innings. He managed to win fourteen games for a Cardinals team that finished 19 games out. He’s a righty ground ball pitcher, which should work in Fenway. If he takes the ball every five days and pitches like he did last season, he’ll be a significant improvement to a Sox rotation that was one game short of 90 wins last season. They gave up nothing of value for 2026 (Fitts may be an innings eater for the Cards, but the Sox should have traded him and kept Priester, he had no place in their 2026 rotation). Clarke has upside, but is not going to help now and they have other similar prospects in the system. Good trade for the Sox; if Clarke works out will be good for the Cards as they’re not going to compete in 2026 even with Gray.
Good trade for Red Sox!
I expected to find at least one clever, 50 Million Shades of Gray joke.
Got a better return then the white sox did
$20m
They’re sending $20 million
Oh Boy!!!
Hopefully this isn’t our number 2.
The Sox will have 15 SPs on the 40 man roster (counting Houck and Criswell) once they add Gray. How many more do you think they need?
Nice, but most are garbage.
How do you get 15?
Starters:
Crochet, Gray, Bello, Dobbins, Early, Tolle, Perales, Drohan, Uberstine, Houck (IL for 2026 season)
Swingmen:
Crawford, Criswell
———-
Even if you count the swingmen, who ideally should be long relievers, thats still only 12. A good ratio on a 40-man Id say.
Reg – what about Sandoval and Harrison
@Reggie
Crochet gray Bello Crawford Sandoval Houck SP ML or IL (6)
long man/spot starter Criswell (1)
Tolle Early Perales Sandin Uberstine Drohan Harrison Dobbins Minor 40 man starters (8)
6 + 1 + 8 = 15
fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox
Some of those will end up in relief. Most minor leaguers get developed as starters, even when their future is in the pen.
Ketch
The Sox will have 15 SPs on the 40 man roster
======================
Is there a correct number? 22 of the 40 are pitchers, which I presume is reasonable since pitchers are more likely to help you over the course of the season.
Jays have 22 pitchers
NYY have 20
TB has 22
BA has 21
22 doesn’t seem unreasonable.
As long as you have enough of the 22 that are optionable. Pitchers are much more likely to break.
Yup, they cannot all be major leaguers at the same time. The reason why you have more pitchers than hitters is because you’re never going to keep a hitter than might someday be a bench player. With the SPs, half the prospects will crash out completely and another 25% will become BP pieces.
I just happened to have the PT page open, and they have 23. I’m not sure where some fans got the idea that 22 was too high.
Houck is out for the year and Sandoval the Sox are going to have to see what he looks like post-surgery. But at this time, the Sox mostly have back of the rotation options.
I’d LOVE to let Early and Tolle start in the minors, pending they don’t force our hand in Spring Training to make the roster.
So right now I see the rotation as: Crochet, (insert #2 here), Gray, Bello, and competition for the #5 with Sandoval having the upper hand, given the contract size and experience.
The way to look at this is it was not good enough last year and won’t be good enough against the Yankees with Fried / Cole leading the charge in a playoff series. Gray is a replacement for Giolito, but unless they plan to go nuts with the bats and bring back Bregman AND add an Alonso, they can’t essentially field the same team and count on all the youngsters continuing to improve. Sophomore slumps are real.
grey is you #2 and only big deal. team is 10 mil for the tax so no more spending.
FenwayFaithful – You hit a chord that rings with me on youngsters or any player being better , improving.. Who improved last season? Story , Anthony and that’s it..all others were either equal or regressed.. why ?
And then there’s the total lack of situational hitting.. it cost a lot of W’s
That’s about what the Dodgers have used the past couple of seasons…
It more than likely is lol. And will be the big name pitching acquisitim this off-season. Breslow is a joke.
Acquisition whoops.
Not saying Sonny Gray is bad.
I’m saying Sonny Gray in 2026 is not a top of the rotation arm and isn’t going to be worth 41MM. He’s going to be 36. Money and prospects could have been spent on a better pitcher.
He’s been a top ten pitcher in fWAR over the last few years. He’s a good number 2
Best K-BB%
RHP — 2025 Season
Paul Skenes: 23.7%
Joe Ryan: 22.5%
Bryan Woo: 22.2%
Jacob deGrom: 22.1%
Sonny Gray: 21.6%
x.com/jayhaykid/status/1993362697904148722?ref_src…
Gray wasn’t good his previous time in the AL East and certainly hasn’t been good in Fenway.
Grr.
Joemo mad about Red Sox getting solid number 2 starter.
Joemo now pretend Sonny Gray is bad.
The dude has a career 1.19 WHIP in almost 2000 career innings and you’re all mad.
He is probably the most durable starter in the bigs. Pitches to above average stats. And Cards are paying half of his salary. Sounds like a pretty great deal. people live to complain unfortunately.
I agree that Gray is much better than given credit, but he is aging. Projections are about a 4.00 ERA and a 1.22-1.25 WHIP depending on the source of the projection. He’s also moving to a tougher division in terms of line-ups.
But the frustration for some Red Sox fans is that if Gray is all they do to the rotation, they simply replaced Giolito and that wasn’t good enough last year. Going up against Cole and Fried at the top of the Yankees rotation, they are going to need another arm. It also will take some pressure off Gray who struggled badly last time he was in the AL East.
I tend to agree I think they need to add 1 more arm at the top of the rotation as they would have done had Giolito picked up his option.
Probably kills my Dylan Cease prediction to Boston!
Joemo – I hate Breslow, and Sox fans need to wrap their arms around this….the big SP move is here.
That said, based on the acquisitions of Sandoval, Buehler, Giolito, and May getting Sonny Gray is a MAJOR improvement to his track record…….
Fenway – He could very well pitch like number 2 for the Sox, time will tell.
If by ‘number two’ youre talking the thing you flush, id tend to agree with you.
He literally has above average stats and never misses time. Tell me you just started watching baseball, without saying it
Above average? He’s your prototypical #3 guy with a history of struggling in the AL east.
If you want bulk innings in the middle to back of the rotation he’s your guy.
If you want a co-ace, which is what Boston needed, he doesnt fit that bill.
For all the talk of looking for a strong upgrade over giolito, this isnt a huge improvement
GA – If this was Sonny Gray when he signed his current deal, I’d be all for it. But he’s out up two good, not great years. HR/9 increased the past few years and he’s going to Fenway where balls fly out.
I think it’s most likely that Gray pitches like a mid rotation arm, and that’s not a big upgrade over all these guys in the fantastic pitching pipeline that people fawn over.
He’s 36, 41MM salary (with the option declined because you know).
He’s a huge upgrade over Giolito lmao. He’s been a top ten pitcher by fWAR over the last few years. Ignore the inflated ERA with the Cardinals. All of his other underlying stats are great. Also, asking for a true “co-ace” is wayyy too big of an ask. How many teams actually have that?
Jabronie, you cant ask to ignore an ERA based on Cardinals defense when youre moving the guy to the team who had an atrocious defense in 2025, and still lacks an infield.
Bregman is not under contract. Story was defensively one of the very worst in MLB. 2B and 1B are empty slots at the moment, even if Casas is ready and doesnt get hurt yet again, he was never a strong defender to start with.
The 2025 Cardinals infield is superior to the current state of the 2026 Red Sox. Your point would argue for an even more inflated ERA result, particularly as the fly balls Gray gives up can easily be hits off the monster or ground rule doubles to right
@GA, If they begin the season with an infield of Mayer, Story, Gonzalez, and Casas, then I would tend to agree with you. They need to add two quality defensive infielders to the mix if they want to be competitive – e.g. Bregman and Kim.
They still have a surplus of OFs, so perhaps Breslow can address that through trade? Or perhaps spring free enough money to land Bregman and Kim in addition to a big bopper at DH?
FPG – at this point in his career Gray is a pro, you’ll get starts, innings and K’s which is what the Sox needed.
He wasnt my first choice, but i’ll take it. This is a major upgrade
sad – I hope you’re right and he performs as you expect. At least it’s a contract year which hopefully means added incentive for him to do well.
I think if Gio stays healthy, he will outperform Sonny. But of course that’s a major “if”.
@Fenway, I think this is our #2. And I think he has a decent chance of coming through in that role. (More of a #2 than a #1B, but that last may have been a pipe dream.) In some ways he is a better fit than Joe Ryan would have been.
Crochet, Gray, Bello, Sandoval, Crawford are all supposedly ready for the start of Spring Training. Harrison really needs a major league job (he is currently a fit as a #4/#5 but has the fastball to play up if he can make the necessary adjustments) and Early clearly deserves a ML role. Plus Tolle, who isn’t all that far away. I wouldn’t object to another addition, but at this point you would need to move Sandoval/Crawford to make room.
My ideal rotation:
1. Crochet
2. Gore/Ryan or a controllable young starter
3. Gray
4. Bello
5. Early
Gray probably slots ahead of Ryan.
But yeah, if you can find that controllable young ace, I’m all for it. Can find another home for Crawford/Sandoval. For that matter, Crawford’s stuff plays up in the bullpen, he could be a solid seventh inning arm.
FenwayFanatic: Nice pipe dream.
Fenway – I dont want to pay the prospect price for Gore or Ryan.
This is all leading to the acquisition of Skenes in 2027, for essentially, all the prospects
The stove is goin guys. Hold onto your butts
“Ah ah ah. You didn’t say the magic word.”
wow… good job Boston
Didn’t he get a little overwhelmed with all the media and nonsense that comes with pitching in new york a while back?
The “he can’t handle the pressure of New York” story is so tired. Sure, it’s probably true for a few players, but it’s the default assumption about every player that doesn’t perform their best in the Big Apple. That happens with lots of players in lots of cities, and this is mostly is New York hubris.
gbs – I think it’s more because the only other teams he’s pitched for have all been very laid back environments. Personally I don’t see much difference between NY and Boston and Philly.
Maybe I just see AJ Burnett when I look at Sonny.
Or the original pitcher eaten my NY, Ed Whitson.
Ed Whitson was a crazy man.
@FPG. Kratz was saying gray changed his pitches in Oakland even if he called it, based on how it felt on his windup. He said Rothschild was more strict, and didn’t want him to throw his slider. At this point since he’s a veteran he’s probably allowed to do whatever.
NY messed with him. They insisted he pitch differently from his past success, emphasize certain pitches, and as soon as he was away from that pitching coach, he returned to form. No worries.
Correct, they wanted him to throw his “sh!ttiest pitch” more often, his best secondaries less, and he’d get lit up. I’m sure that led to some undeserved media scrutiny, which doesn’t seem like a remedy, either.
GBS, no it’s not. Media driven cities like NY and Boston have ruined many players.
dewey, if that’s true, how can it be confirmed, both in general and specifically with Gray?
GBS, it can’t be confirmed but you need to take it into consideration. Did the Yankees almost ruin him with the sliders or was that simply his excuse because the NY pressure got to him. Time will tell but hopefully, he’s matured a bit since then as well
Members of the jury, there is no way to prove my clients assertion that large media markets ruin some players careers but you have to take it into consideration.
Ummmmmmmm.
No.
i point to the case of Javier Vazquez … did well before NY …. did worse in NY … Leaves NY does well again … gets traded to NY has worst season …. Goes elsewhere does well again.
outside of his rookie season is i believe his 2 worst seasons were with the yankees.
@Dewey. The Yankees are a different beast especially when gray, was there. With all the unwritten rules it probably has more to do with that, and not the media.
@rex
i have a feeling it is a combination. It depends on the mental makeup as some players are extremely professional but also can be emotional and little mistakes or accomplishments blow up to crazy levels in ny media especially. Some guys cant shed the constant hit in the media and cant get it out of their heads then develop the yips. They dont get this barrage in say kc or cincinatti or arizona etc etc. Not all but some.
Roll – Great point! I remembered AJ was similar, but I had forgotten about Vazquez.
Nah, he struggled their. It was just speculation on everyone’s part. I dont remember ever seeing an article with him saying it. People struggle at times and others make up reasons why.
Per AI, several factors including the pressure and the Yankees forcing him to throw more sliders. His home and road splits were vastly different so the short porch could also have been a factor. Either way, I’d have preferred to use those pitching prospects as part of a bigger trade.
AI, that beacon of accuracy…
If it was the Yankees forcing him to throw more sliders, that’s largely on the team.
It’s certainly possible the pressure of the NY market got to him, but defaulting to that assumption and putting it in writing just reinforces that unverified assumption and makes AI that much more likely to come up with that answer.
I love AI. I forget which celeb it was but AI had him as alive in his 80’s when he died fifteen years ago ..
The problem is, the pitching dept under breslow heavily pushes sliders modified to sweepers.
So, you can expect they’ll push that same program with Gray, much like the yanks
“The problem is, the pitching dept under breslow heavily pushes sliders modified to sweepers.”
=======
Why is that a problem? Red Sox had 5th best ERA in MLB and they play half their games at Fenway.. Best team ERA they’ve had in over a decade.
Grey already throws a ton of sweepers.
“Grey already throws a ton of sweepers.”
Thats probably why Breslow targeted him.
GaSox – Hopefully he will push back, like some of the hitters have done with Fatso and Lawson.
Driveline’s approach to hitting and pitching isn’t always the best approach for every player.
gbs – While we are on the subject, what differentiates between AI stating something as “fact” as opposed to stating “some/most people believe”? I always wondered ……
I believe we have seen that happen, and, its what was behind some of the trades and releases of players, or, their being slotted in less desirable roles
*there
Yes he sure did. And now moving to another pressure cooker market like Boston may impact his on-field performance.
Gray said it was basically because of a difference in pitching philosophy. The Yankees wanted him to be more like Tanaka and throw his slider more overall. Gray said that his slider is something he likes to throw in 2-strike counts–down into the dirt. He had no confidence in it and they kept asking him to throw it.
It wasn’t pitching in New York, it was pitching at Yankee Stadium. He tends to get lit up when pitching in a hitter friendly ballpark.
What about his successful seasons in Cincinnati?
The Yankees screwed with the way he liked to pitch and his play suffered because of it. The playing in NY narrative is nonsense. It was different when the Yankees were in their dynastic time period of the late 90s early 00s. The players don’t have George to worry about anymore either.
Here is a good article where Sonny Gray discussed his time in New York:
cbssports.com/mlb/news/sonny-gray-rips-yankees-for…
Some highlights:
“They had me throw more breaking balls than I ever had before,” Gray said of New York.
“I can’t command my slider that well,” the new Reds starter admitted. “I want to throw my slider in the dirt with two strikes, and that’s about it. I don’t have that type of slider, like (Masahiro) Tanaka’s slider. His slider, the catcher will catch it, and the batter will swing and miss. If I get a swing and miss, the catcher is blocking it in the dirt. When I try to throw sliders for a strike, I get around it and it’s just a (shi–y) spinning pitch. I don’t know how people throw sliders for strikes that are still tight, good pitches. I’m at 2-0 and I’m throwing a slider, and either I’m throwing a (shi–y) slider in the zone, or I’m yanking it into the dirt and it’s 3-0 and I’m screwed either way.”
“They love sliders,” Gray said of the Yankees. “Sliders are a great pitch. The numbers say slider is a good pitch, but you might not realize how many (shi–y) counts you’re getting in while throwing all those sliders. They wanted me to be Tanaka and I’m way different from him.”
Unless the Sox gave up 15 cents and a pop tart, I don’t understand the why to acquiring a 36 yr old pitcher with a $35M salary in 2026
What flavor Pop-Tart? That’s a significant factor.
Frosted strawberry milkshake
There is only one worthy Pop-Tart flavor, and that is Brown Sugar Cinnamon.
I love it – my to favs are BS Cin and Frosted SB (the chocolate fudge gets some love)
That would be like a straight up Ohtani for Arson Judge trade. Brown Sugar Cinnamon is in it’s own category. You gotta be elite to get traded for that pop tart.
A single unfrosted strawberry pop tart. The worse kind you can get. They threw in some clam chowdah too and the Cardinals aren’t sending a rack of ribs with Sonny to Bawston.
I noticed you said “unfrosted”. Throw some frosting on that strawberry pop tart and it becomes one of the best.
Gotta be unfrosted because of how boring St Louis is
Have you ever put butter on a Pop Tart? It is so friggin’ good, and if you’ve never put butter on a Pop Tart then I think you should.
That’s funny! My late wife craved grape pop tarts with butter on them when she was pregnant with our first child. Couldn’t stand it afterwards! LOL!
Butter and syrup on BS Cinnamon
The Brown Sugar Cinnamon with butter is a worthy late night snack.
If it’s chocolate fudge, it is a HUGE overpay.
S’mores too would be a huge overpay
Apparently #2 flavored
Yoshida is owed $37 million, with 2 years left. Gray is owed $40 million, with 1 year left, Why would St. Louis do that, unless Sox are sending money, too.
Red Sox 101: You might add that Gray pitched to a 1.4 bWAR last season, 1.8 bWAR the year before. But he struck out more than one an inning in each of those seasons, and he’s going to a better team, so for one year (btw at $40 million as he’s owed a $5 million buyout) it’s not a bad risk.
his fWAR was way better though. His underlying stats all look very strong. Those stats tend to be much more predictive than ERA
Red Sox are getting 20M from the Cardinals. That was in the very first paragraph.
That came out later, after he posted that.
Cardinals are paying half his salary
Sox 101 – remember the day you heard this…………
The Sox were looking for a one year deal because in 2027 they are trading the (entire) farm for Paul Skenes. The haul for the Pirates is gonna make the White Sox deal look like nothing
Okay this is like the 4th time you have reiterated your Magic 8 Ball prognostication regarding Skenes. Message received.
In fairness, the Cards are paying a good chunk of the contract, and the two guys the Red Sox gave up really aren’t a big part of their future (and probably not the Cards future either).
Gray is very good and doesn’t seem to be slowing down. Back to back 200 K seasons.
The Cardinals are paying $20 million of his contract
Off to a good team couldn’t be more excited for him.
Worked out well the last time he pitched in the AL East lol.
That was my first thought when I saw this. I’d rather run Fitts out there every five days.
Thats dumb.
Steve45 – you’re better than that comment
Heck yeah nice pickup for the Red Sox, was hoping the Braves would get him.
Yes! If for no other reason than to quiet any braves fans speculation that Anthopoulos would take on money to acquire his contract.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Gray is a decent enough hurler, but his contract is not pretty for his production.
@southi: Yep, all of that plus no reason to deal off the better pitching prospects for Gray. Need to keep them—-especially Ritchie, Fuentes, Caminiti, Murphy—–instead of trading for big contracts and declining production. Also, what kind of Braves fan wants to help StL? Nope. Never.
At least the Cardinals are paying half the salary
Soulthi – its a one year deal, dont worry about money…..and the Cards are kicking in $20m. The Sox are paying less for Gray than Buehler
At the time I posted it only the initial info was out and nothing yet about the Cardinals chipping in money.
But my response was mainly generated by the almost dozens of trade proposals I see every week from fans on Braves fan sites. Lol I was just sick of seeing them.
We’ll probably never see it be Sonny in Philadelphia… unless Boston plays there.
The Gang Goes to Boston.
would’ve liked him as a Met but not sure he’d survive NY part 2
Gray to NYM would’ve been so obviously LOLmets to the point he would invoke his no-trade clause.
Typical LOLChuckyNJ comment.
It’s for Yoshida and Campbell Bob Nightingale said so
Please tell me Mada Yoshida is going to Stl
Oxymoron
For one year, if he’s anywhere near his established level of performance, he’s worth it to Red Sox to take a run at a WS. ‘
Signed, Disgruntled Yankees Fan
The Red Sox have plenty of pitchers who can fill Geay’s role in 2026. The money should have been spent on an actual top of the rotation arm.
I think we have plenty of arms who can do Sonny Gray numbers in 2027. But in 2026, that’s a stretch. Gray is very durable, first and foremost, unlike 80% of our pitchers. Also has much better command. His K/BB both in terms of last year on its own and in terms of career norms, is 2nd best on our staff by a country mile. By FIP he was perfectly good last year. Had a bit of a home run spike, don’t know if that was luck or something else, but aside from that this is a really nice add.
Good luck to Dick Fitts in St. Louis, but if he’s the centerpiece of a deal to acquire a quality veteran starter who is actually healthy and durable for once, that’s great work on Breslow’s part. Hats off.
They have Garrett Crochet penciled in at #1, and Brayan Bello is the presumptive #2. After that?
Kyle Harrison may be in the rotation next season, but it’s hard to say what his output will be. The small sample with Boston looked great, but he’s young and mostly unproven thus far.
Hunter Dobbins is an option, assuming he’s fully healthy, but he’s not exactly a proven major leaguer with only 61 IP’s so far.
Connelly Early is another young guy who probably has a shot in the rotation, but again, even more unproven with only 19 innings under his belt.
Giolito is a free agent.
Houck is out for the year with Tommy John.
Seems to me after the top two, they have no reliable arms with a track record. Gray gives them a reliable veteran presence somewhere in the middle/back half of the rotation to help balance off some potential youthful unpredictability.
It also doesn’t mean they can’t still sign a bigger fish for the rotation. The $20m they’re getting helps ease the financial load.
Yes, that is my point.
Early/Tolle are still too early in their developmental curve to expect Sonny Gray numbers out of them. That’s not to say they’re not good enough to do it, they have high enough ceilings that they could. But there is a difference between could and should. Planning on them to deliver results like that is planning to fail.
Houck could also give similar numbers when fully healthy. He won’t even be throwing a ball until 2027.
Dobbins was very interesting in 2025. I think he is very similar to Bello. Neither he nor Bello have shown the stamina yet to plan on them giving you 180-200 IP like Sonny Gray does on a regular basis.
It’s a one year deal so he doesn’t create a long term logjam for the younger and more exciting options. I love it.
It also allows Early and Tolle development time. The talk of Gray’s NY meltdown is overly stated – different time, different expectations and a different team. Is he the famous #2 promised ? Maybe… but maybe not . We haven’t hit December yet but reinforced the SP corps with .at worst,a durable workhorse #3 for a #5/6 (in the AL East) a high risk prospect who wouldn’t have played in 27 let alone 26.
But at least Breslow swung ,on paper at least, a win now trade without giving up any real assets (Duran or Mayer for example)
Red Sox are getting 20M from the Cardinals. That was in the very first paragraph.
Not sure why you can’t figure out when that was posted vs. when the poster made his comment.
Do you even realize he had a 201 k’s to 38 walks??? and he pitches deep into games, They are only paying him $20M, thats back of the rotation pay on a contender. Red sox fans are spoiled, it was Joe Ryan or nothing for them.
Joemo – there is no way in the world that you are getting 32 starts, 200k’s and 180 innings pitched from anyone on the Sox currently other than Crochet
Sad – Bello pitched equal or better than Gray in 2025, he just didn’t have the K’s. But he did a much better job at limiting HR, generating soft contact, etc.
And Bello is much cheaper
Joemo – I dislike being in the position of defending Breslow when its not the move i would make. But let’s not make the perfect the enemy of good. Are we better today than yesterday. Yes.
Bello pitched less starts, less innings, less k’s.you need five goos SPs. Is Gray better than whoever you or ne envisioned in the spot, probably not, but hes still a very useful pitcher who can get into the 7th inning.
Forget the money, the Sox are paying $20m in real dollars, and best of all, its for one year, before we load up the bus of prospects for Skenes in 2027
Sad – your last sentence I 100% agree with, and I hate it. Not agreeing with you, but that it seems like they might be focusing on “next season” (2027) already.
But I mean we shall see what happens. I like Gray much more than Buehler, May, Paxton, Kluber, Sandoval, etc.
Seems to be a theme with Breslow’s moves, like I’m glad he’s doing something but it doesn’t seem like enough. Granted it’s still early, so things can still change! But I’m not holding my breath.
Joemo – at least we dont have to pay for a year of rehab, right? So, thats a step in the right direction.
Quite honestly, I sense a kicking the can down the road kind of off season, but i’m keeping an open mind.
I think that Breslow (and many other young, inexperienced GMs) just dont have the breadth of experience or quite honestly the base-balls to go all-in or full throttle. Its mostly analysis paralysis.
This is the year that the front office has promised us for the last four years, so im gonna try to be optimistic
Joemo-
When you keep repeating yourself, its just whining.. Who did you want them to acquire? What would you have given up?
I understand those who are/were willing to give up more to get more, but Sonny Gray very clearly immediately becomes our second best pitcher and we didn’t give up a whole lot to get him. People have been clamoring for more and better pitching, well here it is. Not to mention it’s not even Thanksgiving for another 16 hours, the offseason is far from over. More moves are likely still coming. Pretty ridiculous to be upset right now.
Give Chaim some time
cards – Agreed, give him 4 years to build the farm system and then hand off team control to someone else.
Fever, I agree with giving Bloom some time, but, if he takes 4 years to build a good, deep farm, then I hope the Cardinals will give him the chance to switch gears and build a consistant pennant contender.
I hope the Cardinals don’t get rid of him because he did not build a contender too early.
Blooms Boston blueprint won’t work with the current CBA and the lottery system. He relied heavily on tanking to finish at the bottom of the division to boost bonus pools and get high draft picks.
They revised things to not allow that anymore in such consecutive years.
Also, StL lacks the WS quality core that bloom let walk to collect Comp Balance picks.
So he’s going to need to stockpile quality prospects a new way.
GaSox – Great post!
Yes that 2021 Sox team had FIVE All-Star carryovers from Dombrowski …. Barnes, Eovaldi, Devers, Xander, JD (not counting the often injured Sale)..
Bloom also inherited Houck, Duran, Casas, Crawford, Bello, Rafaela to name a few ….. Dombrowski left a decent farm system.
Bloom isn’t inheriting nearly as much talent now.
Why would they do that?
Willson Contreras and Donovan should have been the targets. Even Arenado under certain circumstances. The new #2 SP should have come from elsewhere (Miami).
Now that more details are in, we know the trade is an abomination. Unless Bloom is paying more than half the freight, he got the better of Breslow, which means the game is lost.
And still could ! But it wouldn’t have cost Ditts and Clarke – it would/will cost more. At least on of the OFs and 2 prospects . This deal is adding a solid counterweight to the team SP staff. Considering that #5s get on average 10-12 million getting Gray for 8-10 million more is a win.
Chris Cotillo is saying Brandon Clarke and Richard Fitts going to STL. Boston is also getting cash. Per Olney, deal reworked to $31 million this year and $10 million mutual option for 2027.
Unless StL is throwing in half the cash, massive overpay from the Sox. Fitts may be a better pitcher in 2026 than Gray.
I fully expect the Red Sox to get at least that much cash. I think that may be a stretch on Fitts vs Gray…I don’t think Fitts will be more than a back of the rotation starter at least at the moment.
@Joemo Given how Fitts pitched this past season, I can’t see how that’s happening unless Gray completely tanks in value next year through either injury or massive underperformance.
Red Sox are getting 20M from the Cardinals. That was in the very first paragraph.
How many times are you going to post the same comment.? It wasn’t in the first paragraph when the article was posted. The amount of cash included in the deal wasn’t in the original article. Why act like it was?
If that is true, this is a horrendous trade. I don’t know much about Clarke, but I would not trade Fitts for Gray 1-for-1.
Clarke is probably a borderline top 100 prospect next year
Based on how hard he throws, his slider, and the fact that he’s a lefty, yes. Based on the fact that he’s ever been any good, no. He has no control whatsoever, has no third pitch, and has a serious injury history. He’s not going to be a significant impact player in the majors.
As long as STL pays about half of this, I like this. $20 million, a minor leaguer, and back end starter/middle reliever, for a number 3 starter? That’s not a bad deal.
Duffy, I agree with this. Fitts is a back end starter/middle reliever and Clarke is a high reward/high risk minor leaguer (15% walk rate is rather high). Boston gets 1 year ( maybe 2)
of a solid starting pitcher.
Could be good for both teams, could blow up for both.
Thats dumb.
The reworked contract confuses me.
I thought mlb/mlbpa made pretty clear they didnt allow that outside of adding years.
Wasn’t it a-rod they tried doing that with and the trade got nixed?
Good for the Sox. Gray is a solid rotation piece.
Chaim came in heavy as his tenure starts. Hopefully he can move Contreras and Arenado as well, good start for Chaim.
This might sound crazy (I’m sure vIll get some affirmatives there 😁) but I wonder if the Reds might look at Contreras if the Cards throw in the cash. The bat would be welcome for sure, especially if they move Stephenson on as I suspect as free the Trevino extension.
But that is probably too outside the box thinking for that bunch.
Contreras at 1B would be a definite upgrade, especially if the Cardinals eat some salary. Krall would have to throw a prospect into the pot, but he’d be an offensive upgrade for your Reds. It’s really not that far-fetched, Chaim came in heavy so you never know!
Please tell me Chaim got his boi Yoshida back and Red Sox offloaded Hicks
Chaim’s a smart guy. He’s not going to make the same mistake twice.
Ha, you don’t know chaim
“His boi” Yoshida is staying with the Red Sox.
No offense to Gray, but I hate this deal
STL found it hard to pass on aquiring Richard Fitts
He fitts their future plans.
bud – Fitts is gonna be a good one, just watch. I’m sad to see him go.
Now all Boston needs to is sign Devin Williams, and they’ll have a 3 headed monster of former Yankees in the pen and another in the rotation
You mean a formerly failed Yankee? Sonny couldn’t seem to answer the call in the pressure of new York. Boston is worse
Yankee Stadium seats 46,537 fans, and if you count the folks who swear they paid for standing room, it jumps to 52,325. Meanwhile, Boston is over there with the fifth-smallest seating capacity in MLB and the second-smallest overall. Translation: he will be just fine in that cozy little ballpark.
I have been to both parks, and yes, Boston fans are way more locked in than Texas Rangers fans like myself. But in that tiny, wide-open Fenway, the noise level sounds like a very committed Little League tournament. He is basically going from a stadium to a neighborhood cookout with bleachers.
Be grateful your team has money to burn on Gray! Some of us are just over here praying for a bullpen that does not need emotional support by August.
Welcome to your life!!!!!!
I’m not talking noise level. I mean media and fan scrutiny. This city will eat you alive if you’re weak
I hope this is not the move for a # 2 rotation piece. I don’t dislike the move. Lot of money. He is maybe a #3 at his best. Solid acquisition,but still need a #2.
Red Sox are getting 20M from the Cardinals. That was in the very first paragraph.
Ewwwww….
If the Richard Fitts…
They couldn’t get wait until January first and get Luis Castillo instead?
Nah, Luis is going back to the Reds.
Ok, even I laughed at that.
gray is getting $41mil for just 1 yr. his agent is a friggin genius
thats a great deal for the birds. getting a decent prospect in clarke, and moving that crazy contract. even if they pay off a portion of it, this is a W for STL.
so sox are on the hook for 21mil for 1 year
win-win for both
Well, Gray only got $10M in 2024 coming off his near Cy Young performance in 2023. That’s how a backloaded contract works.
yes coming off 2nd place finish in CY
but he was 34 yrs old. and got 75mil
and hasnt lived up to it at all
tms need to be more cautious about vets and even more cautious about vets coming off a contract year.
these ball players are receiving insane amounts of $. and sometimes for nothing. frankie montas is a perfect example. mets donated $34 mil to his bank account. for free.
Maybe not, but it was his age that capped him at $75M in the first place. If he were younger, he would’ve gotten well over $100M. Had it been a contract that paid him $25M each year instead of being backloaded, it wouldn’t look so odd. Still an overpay but not an albatross.
More that Mozeliak was a friggin moron. He backloaded the contract to insane levels. Fitts is a back of the rotation starter or middle reliever. Clarke is a guy people were excited about due to his size, velocity, and the fact that he’s a lefty. He has never really produced. All he does is walk guys and throw wild pitches. Oh, and he gets hurt a lot, so he’s got that going for him.
It would’ve been acceptable if the Cardinals had been ready to seriously compete in 2026 as originally planned. Heavily backloading the deal is what allowed Gray to fit into their 2024 payroll that helped them get to a winning record that year.
Gray is still quite good. He strikes me as a guy who struggled with the vapid environment of losing that ensued in StL last year (similar to Arenado). Can’t really prove it, but that’s the vibe I get from their personalities.
Boston will now (possibly) feature this rotation:
1. Crochet
2. Gray
3. Bello
4. Early
5. Dobbins
That’s a pretty solid group, especially if Early and Dobbins take steps forward. Gray will be far superior to Buehler (last year’s intended #2).
Dobbins over Tolle?
Yeah, my bad.
Tolle has high upside but he’s not a capable starting pitcher until he has at least one dependable breaking or off speed pitch.
Last year he threw his FB and cutter 84% of the time after promotion.
Harrison is likely ahead of Fitts, Early and Dobbins, but we’ll see.
Seems like that 5th spot is wide open then. I forgot about Harrison too, the upside with him is nice if he ever improves command.
Sandoval and Crawford are likely their 4th & 5th starters for now. They can keep the young guys in the minors till needed.
Even if that was true for Gray, Arenado struggled by playing hurt. That’s a completely different situation.
It will be interesting to see how Dick fitts in the rotation in Boringville.
It will be interesting to see how dick fitts
It will be interesting to see how dick fitts
Sonny will get his revenge against the Yankees
Good luck with that if he has to face them in the Bronx. He gets beaten up there like a red headed step child.
Dick Fitts. Epic name.
The rest of the Al East says thank you!
Derp
Thank you for your insight.
If Chaim helped draft a lot of Boston’s current farm system, you’d think he’d have a good feel for the value of a prospect-based return. Interesting seeing Bloom go back to the well in BOS frequently for specific prospects (thinking of the Blaze Jordan deadline trade, too)
Except the two players in the trade were acquired by Breslow, not Bloom.
yeahh cuz Breslow was the only one scouting for the Red Sox smh the orgs guys were still there for both.
This should show you what the price of starting pitching has ballooned to. I’d have thought either Fitts or Clarke alone would have done it, but not both.
I do like Sonny’s fire, but he was very up and down last year. Is he really an upgrade over Gio? I’m not so sure and I hope he is not viewed as the #2 they so desire..
Barring the unknown in $ from ST. Louis, it puts boston at 40 mill over the threshold. Do we say good bye to Bregman now?
It’s a lot to give up, by Gray is a sizable upgrade from Giolito. He was top 10 in both K% and BB% last year. Arguably better than any of the free agents available. That said, he’s 36 and on a 1 year deal.
Is this Fitts guy actually any good? Looking at his stats, he sucked in his Major League starts last year, and he’s only been decent in AAA over the last couple of years. Even Pallante might outperform him next year.
Hopefully Clarke turns into a stud.
He is almost a clone to what Priester was in Boston. Ground ball, low strike outs high command.
I thought the Cardinals were trying to move away from that profile and get pitchers with more swing and miss stuff. They’ve now traded away two of the rare pitchers they had who actually have good K rates (Helsley and Gray).
Clarke has swing and miss stuff.
@Landirac — Swing and miss costs money. The Cards aren’t spending money…yet.
Not for prospects and pre arb players, it doesn’t.
Clarke had 60 strike outs in 38 innings last season!
Floyd Rayford! There’s a name I haven’t seen in a long time.
I went with one of the most random Cardinals of the 80’s!
@dbdmack Priester never pitched for Boston.
He’s an extreme GB pitcher who throws in the low-90s while Fitts is an average-to-above-average GB pitcher who throws in the mid 90s and I wouldn’t characterize him as a control pitcher (at least not yet). They each throw a slider as their primary secondary pitch.
Priester pitched for Boston last year before being flipped.
@mack423 You are mistaken. He had 1 start for Worcester but never pitched for Boston.
Priester was buried on their depth chart (behind Fitts and Dobbins), which is why they traded him.
Box score from his Boston start: baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS202409290.shtm…
@mack423 you are correct. I forgot about the one start he made in Boston and missed it when checking. Rest of the points are still correct though.
His ceiling is probably as a decent filler pitcher. Either a long relief/mop up guy or a 4th/5th starter, depending on how a staff is constructed any given year. Won’t wow you but he can be effective. He can also have wildly ineffective stretches (see: 2025). As a pitch to contact guy you’re likely hoping he’s a better fit for the NL Central and their lower park factors than he is in the AL East.
Fitts is a decent pitcher who should compete for a back end rotation spot. He throws a mid-90s FB along with a slider as his primary pitches. Above average at keeping the ball on the ground. Has had an issue with HRs at AAA and MLB so far.
Clarke is a very good prospect. He’s a a good prospect (top-200 in baseball) with a high 90s FB and a plus slider. Needs to work on his other pitches and his fastball is flat. Upside of a mid rotation starter but may end-up as a backend reliever. Probably 1.5-2 years away from the majors.
Given that the Cardinals spent 55mil for 2 years of Gray, 5+ years of Fitts and a pretty good prospect and I think you should be quite happy with this.
It’s just that the Cardinals already have a few Fittses in their organization who will be competing for rotation spots next spring. Getting him seems pretty redundant compared to what they actually need.
@Lanidrac they do, but the other guys didn’t look so great last year and you never know who may make a tweak and take off. The guy is MLB-ready and sits mid-90s – there’s plenty of value in that.
That said, Clarke is the high-upside get here.
he’s just a guy, IMO. Long reliever, or 5th starter at best.
Wow the Cards eating a lot of money. Red Sox getting a good deal.
Gray isn’t a #2 on a WS team
he’s a very good SP and the Red Sox upgraded their 2026 rotation a lot today.
Yes but 10M for a good pitcher with STL eating 20M is a deal I would do all day every day.
Really its 20m for cbt purposes, since option buyouts are included. The only real change is Boston pays less over the 162, with a lump sum on the backend
If they are planning on Grey for a solid 3 or 4 then ya it might be ok. Cards sent 20 million with him to help pay down his price tag. It was really bad when he pitched for the Yankees, hope he does much better with the sox!
More to come from the Cardinal front office, stay tuned.
Wow.. what a huge overpay by the Red Sox for an aging pitcher who doesn’t do well in the AL East. Fitts was serviceable and Clark is a budding star lefty.
It was one season in what has been an excellent 13 year career. And it was 7 years ago. What a preposterous conclusion to suggest he can’t pitch in the AL East. He had a bad year in Oakland too once, does that mean he couldn’t pitch in the AL West either?
A guy who spent half in the season in AAA and posted negative WAR during his MLB starts was “serviceable”? Maybe he gets better, but you used “was” as in past tense.
I don’t hate the deal. Fitts didn’t seem to have much of a future here.
If you didn’t give away Quinn Priester last year, I don’t think you need to do this.
Well. I guess the Astros have to wait a few more years to get Gray.
I don’t see how he’s a clear upgrade over Giolito. I would be supremely pleased if he shows us
This is where he’s a huge upgrade:
By today’s standards, Gray is a workhorse. With the exception of the shortened 2020 season (when he made 11 of 12 possible starts), the former first-round pick has started at least 24 games every year since 2019, averaging 29 starts per 162-game season in that time.
Giolito isn’t dependable at all.
Clear out your schedule Sox fans, whenever Gray starts. and if you can have a family member come and check on you and give you a jostle to make sure you only fell asleep.
.
If Boston really wants to win, they should re-sign Bregman.
Big upgrade on Giolito. Guy is a workhorse where Lucas is made of glass.
NYY seems to like when he pitches against them, and surprised he would go farther east – He seems better away from that – his NY experience has not been good now he will see them more often.
Not as often as you think (and you can blame the balanced schedule for that).
Love this trade as a Cardinals fan. Fitts is a good back end of the rotation option, and Clarke has the chance to be a star pitcher who throws up to 100. Sad to see Sonny go, but this was a great move for the team. GO Cards!
Not crazy about it from the Red Sox pov. The whole “Im vastly overwhelmed by [Insert Major Media Market Here] does concern me, but Gray does have more swing & miss stuff than Dick Fitts…
As a Yankees fan I’m thrilled.
This is Lucas Gilito’s replacement. I see folks clamoring for a trade for a number 2 starter. Don’t need one. That’s Connelly Early. He pitched about 124 innings in total last year and was dominant and he’s ready for a full workload in 2026. Put Gray in as the number 2 to start the year and by playoff time next year, Early will be the number 2. This would fill 4 slots with Crochet, Early, Gray, and Bello. Let Tolle, Crawford, Harrison, Houck (if healthy), and Criswell battle it out for the number 5 slot. Concentrate on the offense now!
Munson – Breslow himself said he was targeting a “co-ace” because the team already has enough #3-5 starting pitchers …. it’s not just the fans deciding on their own.
As for Early, you’re gonna rely on a kid with just 19 career MLB innings and just 28 innings at AAA to be the #2 SP of a team with playoff aspirations? Seriously?
Yes. This time last year we traded for a guy, extended him, and the White Sox didn’t let him pitch past 4 innings after June in 2024 and made him our ace in 2025. How did that work out? Pretty well I would say. I’m hoping at some point Tolle steps it up by the trade deadline next year and we’ll have 5 darn good starters by years end, barring injury of course.
Unless you have more examples, Crochet route seems like the exception, and not something to plan on.
You’re forgetting about Sandoval. Also Houck isn’t healthy – off-chance he returns by September after TJ surgery.
Not high on Early as a #2 pitcher. It’s impressive that he throws 5 competitive pitches and mixes them to keep hitters off-balance but none of his pitches are great and his strike-throwing in AAA wasn’t as good as it was in his 5 MLB starts. Think his walk rate could balloon once MLB hitters get used to him.
Agreed, Early has more of a mid-rotation profile. Not that there is anything wrong with that!!!
Tolle has front line stuff if his secondaries improve.
As a Brewers fan, glad to see him leave the NL central!
If you have a working throwing arm, grab your glove and head to St. Loo. Cards have a LOT of innings to cover.
Some of the “fans” in here — and yeah, I’m being generous with that word — were going to complain no matter what. Professional keyboard warriors doing their thing.
St. Louis kicking in $20M completely changes this deal. Boston now gets Sonny Gray for effectively $20M in 2026, plus a $30M mutual option with only a $5M buyout for 2027. Financially? That’s a flat-out steal.
Would I have preferred Joe Ryan or another younger, controllable arm? Of course. But Boston didn’t have to unload top prospects or pay Cease/Valdez prices. This route buys the young pitchers more development time and keeps the future intact.
Someone in here said the Red Sox have deep pitching, and another guy jumped in with, “Yeah, but they all suck.” Buddy… 29 other teams would love to have Boston’s young pitching depth.
They gave up Fitts — good dude, back-end rotation type, very replaceable. Brandon Clarke has legit upside, but he hasn’t thrown a pitch above A-ball. Nice prospect, far from proven.
Meanwhile Boston gets to keep Tolle, Early, Perales (my pick for the best of the group), Harrison, Dobbins, Witherspoon, Phillips, and several more strong arms.
Now Duran becomes a real trade chip for another position of need — 2B/3B if Bregman walks (Hi, Ketel Marte?), or a prospect haul. And yes, they can still push for Alonso if they want to.
Red Sox “fans” are going to whine no matter what. Sure, I’d rather have Joe Ryan too. But looking at the actual factors, this move sets Boston up to improve elsewhere while letting the young pitching core keep developing.
The Cardinals are not going to compete in the next few years. They just saved $20 million and picked up two young pitching prospects.
At best/worst, it’s a good deal for both teams. But it’s hardly a steal.
Anything more than B-R links for the prospects?
Write-ups on both are in there now. Takes some time to get through a 1600-word trade piece! Haha.
Nice, thx!
Excellent move. That’s all.
As long as we get Cardinals Sonny Gray and not Yankees Sonny Gray this is ok
I know it’s facile, but I always slot the rotation into a mental rubric based off our 2004 rotation:
Crochet : Schilling
??? : Pedro
Gray : Lowe
Bello : Arroyo
??? : Wakefield
We still need Ace #2 and a dependable #5.
With the depth/upside, filling the #5 spot with a Wakefield-level starter is no problem – Sandoval/Crawford can easily do that.
But if you’re looking for someone equivalent to perhaps the greatest pitcher of all-time as your #2, you’re in for disappointment.
Sandoval, Crawford, Tolle, Early, Harrison, Dobbins………..I’ll take that at the back of the rotation and be happy with a guy making $20M that has a 201/38 k/bb rate and actually pitches deep into games anytime.as my #2 behind Crochet and ahead of Bello
Pedro was, as you say, one to the most dominant pitchers of all time. But lots of guys have given 2-3 years similar to Pedro’s 2004. And several on the market this year are capable of giving that kind of performance in 2026.
@bcjd 2004 was a down year for Pedro but he still posted a 4.9 fWAR.
Only 7 pitchers in baseball hit that mark in 2025 with Framber Valdez and Ranger Suarez leading free agents with 4 fWAR each.
Unless you’re being on Skubal, it’s not happening.
Very solid #2 behind Crochet at $21 million and Breslow gave up very little. All in all a real nice move by the Red Sox.
Traded our best Pitcher in the minors for a 36 yr old pitcher with a 4.3 era making 31 million. Wow…speechless
They traded their sixth best (per SP.com) minor league pitcher and are only paying 21mil. Also, I wouldn’t suggest evaluating pitchers based on ERA.
On a side note: who would you say ‘our’ while sporting a Pirates logo?
My gf is from near Pittsburgh, she refuses to root for the Patriots but she roots for red sox and pirates and so do i. Nutting is a terrible owner but im hopeful he sells the team.
I can salute your girlfriend on two fronts. One, she’s from nearby here in Pittsburgh and two, she won’t root for the Pats. True Pittsburgh girl
But I have to ruin your day if you’re hoping Nutting is going to sell this cash cow he has going. Thanks to a number of incredible revenue streams not the least of which is MLB’s annual windfall measured against very little in expenditures, well, even Mark Cuban said he’d be insane to sell
But hey, hope you’ll make it to PNC for our pierogi races or bring your dog to the ballpark night
I’m a New England transplant near Morgantown, WV. I think there’s a nice hate triangle going on between NE, PIT, and BAL.
The Pirates say they’re going to spend, but they’re going to have to overspend to get over the hump
Well, since it’s apparent that they can’t develop position players, sure.
And hey, don’t leave Philly teams out of the hate equation. Impossible to root for anything that comes out of that town
@WCsoxfan
All of Grays numbers in Fenway are abysmal, and that was in his prime. Now, he’s being paid 41m in his age 36 season. while i know we are only on the hook now for 21 this year, its still a very bad deal for Boston, you gave up a promising prospect for an aging vet when they are several younger cheaper and quite frankly, better options available.
This move screams desperation, like something the Padres would do. If you’re going to trade Clarke, id rather have a younger player with more years of control.
@polyglot I don’t put much stock in 26.1 innings from a career of 1,918 innings.
The off-season just started, so clearly not a ‘desperation’ move. If anything it’s a sign that the Red Sox reached out to the FA SPs and weren’t comfortable with any of them (I don’t blame them). Last year the Red Sox really wanted Fried, but they weren’t willing to match the 7 years he got from the Yankees.
One a side note: might want to avoid using the term ‘we’ while featuring that Pirates logo.
As a side note, I welcome anyone who wants to root for a NL team and an AL team.
Always been a Sox fan and they’re my #1 through it all, but, after relocating to Georgia the Braves became my #2 and id root for them every game – except when BOS came to town. Other locals though it was hilarious when id wear my throwback BOS jerseys to my front row OF season tix to ATL games.
best pitcher in the minors??? lol
He had upside, thats it. He’s in A ball and they have 5-6-7 pitching prospects ahead of him. Every single GM in baseball would have made this deal. OMG
Polyglot
Traded our best Pitcher in the minors
======================
BA didn’t rank him in our top-10 prospects in their last publication. I’m not sure how he got so highly coveted. He was drafted #148, had 3 good games in A-ball, and gotten lit up in A+.
@JoeBrady he throws high 90s with a great slider and starting pitcher’s frame.
But yeah, probably too much hype too soon on him. Could be an ace, a closer or never make it past the low minors due to control issues. Wide range of outcomes.
Even if he isnt good, the point was, other teams know we have/had a fantastic farm the last few seasons. If we are as you would think “selling high” on an avg pitcher, then why not sell high on more than a 1yr rental?
I don’t have a problem as much with the player or salary as much as i do the length. He is essentially a 1yr rental and could easily end up not used like May or Buehler.
Maybe, with a much better team, he becomes consistent in Fenway, his numbers here are godly awful, he definitely has been a more healthy, solid option most of his career but, i just wish we had gotten someone with years of control..
Some good news is the PTBNL just showed up in our top 30 from the quin preister trade, so a chance he develops into something.
Sox future is definitely bright.
he is going to get abused.
Pitching in the NL Central last year stats
.262 .302 .424 BA/OBP/SLG%
The stats are even worse against RHB
Now coming to the AL East in that ballpark. Limit data but still 6 starts, 0-4 6.83 ERA. his second-highest career stadium WHIP was 1.823 at Fenway
They will have to put a fresh coat of paint on the green monster after every one of his starts.
This seems like a fair deal for both teams. Red Sox get a reliable, mid rotation Gray (3.39 FIP) for their #5 (MLB) prospect Clarke still in high-A.
mlb.com/news/brandon-clarke-could-be-the-next-brea…
So much for all the geniuses who said he’d only waive to play close to home
Thank you for Clarke, Red Sox fans!!!
Gray is a good/great pitcher…I had no qualms over his stay with St. Louis..
He’s a bit of perfectionist/survivalist , so he’ll remove himself from a game if he doesn’t have it that night, or if he thinks he may injure himself. That didn’t happen much in 2025, but 2024 it took a little to get used to.
I think you guys will like him in 2026
You mean Clarke the guy that started 14 games in A ball for a total of 38 innings? That Clarke? He’s going to be a reliever.
It should be “Thanks Cards for taking our 7th best pitching prospect”
Yeah, in 2025, it was just him getting way too hot in the Busch heat and only going 5 innings, lol
If I were in charge of the Red Sox, I simply would not have paid $31 million and a couple prospects for a #4 starter
The price of starting pitching has gone up. Especially reliable starting pitching.
They didn’t pay $31M
Who paid $31m????
@ TPI
The people actually in charge of the Red Sox didn’t do that, either.
I imagine you would have traded Yoshida to Detroit straight up for Skubal. Unfortunately, reality bites.
This seems like a win-win for both teams. I dont think Gray’s durability is being mentioned enough. The Sox have had some major reliability issues, knowing this guy is a capable #3 every 5th day is something they havent really been able to rely on for a long time. Fitts has some potential but I dont see him being anything more than a 5th starter, 4th at best. Clarke is not MLB ready, Sox needed a move like this and they can still add to the top of that rotation.
If you are St. Louis, and the idea was to off-load money, you just off-loaded. Not the value of then entire contract, but it’s a chunk of change on a team likely (although I never underestimate the Cardinals) to not be as competitive. If either of the pitchers they traded for are just decent, it becomes a better deal, but if money is what you were after, you found some. Gray was always going to be a tough trade.
I think Gray is going to be better for the Red Sox than most of the fans in this thread seem to assume. His FIP has been much better than his ERA the last couple years and St. Louis was near the back of the pack defensively (19th in defensive run saved). Although I guess it depends at least a little bit on how good Boston’s defense is next year.
Boston’s outfield is one of the best in baseball defensively.
But he couldn’t pitch well in front of a bunch of vomiting drunks.
Terrible trade! I would rather have Fitts and Clarke. Breslow got taken again. Please don’t let him make anymore trades
You don’t like a guy that pitches 200 innings, pitches deep into games, strikes out over 200 and only walks 38? really? You would rather keep an older prospect that is going to be a 5th starter/swingman and an A Ball pitcher that is probably going to end up as a reliever? ok, makes sense
How much better do you feel?? Nearly same salary as Lucas G would make and more of a workhorse… Love as a 3 but even so not knowing, Gray or Early staring a decisive game last year??
Gray
If they signed Lucas to a one year 21M contract then they would still have Fitts and Clarke.
I would expect Giolito to sign a multi-year deal, and possibly with a higher AAV.
@rmullig2 that’s true, but they would also have a worse (and less dependable) rotation.
The QO for Giolito would have been slightly more expensive @ 22.025mil.
At some point you have to trust the Red Sox development system. They are the guys who drafted Clarke in the fifth round for an under slot $400k bonus, then a year and a half later had him rated as a borderline top 100. They know his talent, and identified the potential that every other team missed, but they also know his limitations at this point.
He is a good prospect but if they felt he was irreplaceable then they wouldn’t have included him in the deal. SoxProspects has Clarke ranked similarly to Fajardo, who a year ago was the return on Booser.
to do what? they have 7-8 pitching propects ahead of those guys, Gray is durable, Giollito is injury prone, i don’t get the logic
As a Brewers fan I’ll miss Sonny, as a 36 yr old pitcher he scared nobody anymore.
Spahn only won 160 games from age 36 on. Why don’t you go to the bathroom Warren Pees.
I really like this rotation. It replaced Giolito and is an upgrade from last year.
Yup. And last year’s rotation was pretty good, #9 in ERA- and #9 in innings.
This is the year the youth begins to arrive, so we are less likely to end up with retreads and bullpen starts. The deadline acquisitions of Paxton and May the last couple years were a disaster.
Hopefully Harrison, Early, and Tolle save them from that fate this year.
Love them battling for #5 spot (or even depth). Then we also have Sandoval to slot in if needed for a number 4. But I still feel we NEED a bonafide #2. Trade Duran or Abreu.
Yeah, they will get their chances. I’ve got no problems making the kids fight for their slots (and they could potentially help in the bullpen if the rotation is full).
Even when young pitchers are successful, they typically need a light innings load their first season in the majors. Easiest way to achieve that is to begin the season in the minors, wait until May or June to be called up. Also reduces service time of course.
I believe Gray is a legit #2, his peripherals are still very strong, better than his actual ERA last year. Cardinals defense is weak. But I’m not going to object to adding another great pitcher if they can swing it.
I feel this is just to replace Giolito. We should really pull the trigger on Ryan or Greene and I’ll feel really good about this rotation. Then spend some money on Bregman and Alonso and I feel really good about this year!
Let’s see if Ricky Fitts can pitch like an American beauty.
Here’s a mock trade for Brendan Donovan.
Yanks send of there young starters Gil or Warren plus one of there top SS prospects who they emptied international money to draft Roderick Arias for Brendan Donovan. Donovan fills a super utility roll unless the Yanks decide to trade Jazz
I see a lot of Red Sox fans are sour on this trade, referring to Gray as a back of the rotation inning eater. His last 3 seasons his FIP’s were 2.83 (led league), 3.12 and 3.39 and his strikeouts were 183, 203 and 201 and he doesn’t walk people. That’s looks more like middle to top of the rotation to me. You’re only paying 20mil for him this season plus you get the guy for a 25mil net option in 2027 if he pitchers well. I’m just bummed the Giants didn’t get him because most of the good FA starting pitchers accepted the QO.
The Bieber and Woodruff decisions were puzzling (maybe there are some bad medicals?). Those two and Gray were my top 3 choices of available pitchers.
Red Sox fans get more ignorant every year, they used to be the most intelligent in MLB,
Same with Cardinals fans. Probably same everywhere. Everyone thinks they’re a damn expert.
@mollysdad although I would never want to takeaway a ‘back in my day!’ frustration post, I actually think fans are far more knowledgeable these days. The problem is that with so much information, the range of knowledge varies by a wider margin and many fans struggle to understand the abundance of statistics which are now available.
I’m willing to bet that fans parroting the shock Hicks have been around far longer than you or I.
I’ve always been good with numbers and that skill has played an outsized roll in my career(s). But 20 years ago I had no idea about O-swing% or average sprint speed. I’ll be happy when the MLBTR writers stop using arm strength percentiles in their articles without context.
Autocorrect changed ‘jocks’ to ‘Hicks’…? Good Job Google…
I see a lot of sheep repeating the “can’t pitch in a large market” spin they read in somebody else’s post.
It kind of worked though. There’s a lot worse autocorrects it could have had.
All in all a good move for STL. They have been stuck in the middle for to long. The minors are very light on good pitching depth. 2-3 year rebuild the NL Central is not the AL East.
Gray is still living off his 2023 season. 1.8 bWAR in 2024, 1.4 bWAR in 2025. He’s gonna get better in his age-36 year? Good luck, Red Sox.
Don’t use bWAR for pitchers – it’s like saying ‘ERA’ and is heavily luck related. 3.8 and 3.6 fWAR the past two years.
Agreed. Gray’s fWAR ties him for 16th among qualified starters in ’25.
347 innings of bad luck? Luck is doing a lot of work here. At least Gray should eat some innings but even that is iffy for any 36-year-old hurler. Otherwise, expect more “bad luck” for the Sox.
.332 BABIP vs a career .289.
The projection is for an ERA in the low fours. Looks optimistic to me but it’s possible. So Gray should munch innings and not stink too bad. Is that worth the price? I dunno, but it seems like the Sox could have done as well on somebody else for a lower cost in money and talent.
@Casey there’s both luck and circumstance. We often call a bad babip (.315) and LOB% (68.9%) ‘luck’, but you can also call it ‘poor defense and relief pitching’. Gray doesn’t control either of those things, so a change of team can immediately fix them. If you normalize those numbers then you’re looking at a guy who should have an ERA closer to his 3.26 FIP or 2.95 xFIP.
That said, bWAR is actually created from RA and not ERA. So you need to account for the errors given up by his defense as well.
@CaseyAbell Where are you going to find that for a one-year deal for less than Q.O. money? Anybody else would require a much longer free agent contract.
@CaseyAbell what projection? Steamer has him pegged for a 3.45 ERA. There’s a wide range of outcomes but projecting him for anything over 4 would be nutty.
@casey To be fair, he was pitching in front of a fairly poor defense. St. Louis was 19th in defensive runs saved last year. Poor defensive plays can still lead to earned runs as long as the fielder isn’t charged with an error. A fielder’s lack of range or poor throwing arm won’t save you from earned runs.
It hurts to lose Clarke but the Red Sox farm is so deep in arms. Fitts really had no place on this team but has some upside.
The real question is, is Sonny Gray really a #2 at this point? I’m not real sure but I am pretty sure at this point the rotation is:
Crochet
Gray
Bello
It’s then a competition between Sandoval, Crawford, Early, Dobbins, Harrison and outside change Tolle. My guess is they start Tolle in AAA to continue to work on his secondaries. If I had to guess now It’s going to be Crawford and Early at the back of the rotation with Sandoval as the 6th starter but it’s just a guess.
The rotation in AAA is going to be loaded as well Tolle, Harrison, Dobins, Perales, Drohan, Sandlin and Uberstine. I do think there is a strong chance Drohan emerges from spring training in the pen as a weapon. They have so many quality arms it’s a good gamble on Sonny Gray to be that compliment to Crochet but I expect Early, Tolle, Dobbins and Harrison to take big steps next season as well as a plethora of arms at AAA down to Single A Salem. Not all of them are going to pan out but when you have so many quality arms some will and I’m guessing at least one or two will take spectacular jumps. It’s pitching U now.
Dang, forgot about Dobbins earlier. 🙂 🙂 :). Love that they have so many live young arms to back the veterans. And I keep forgetting Perales, too, who looked really good (albeit wild) in his return.
Takes a while sometimes to get back that control after TJ surgery not everyone is Bieber who didn’t seem to have a an issue control wise.
Understood, and Perales looked strong.
Solid deal for both team.
The new numbers put Gray at a reasonable…not bargain, but reasonable.. cost for Boston. While Gray is no longer a CY contender, he is a dependable, durable MOR…something Boston needed.
St Louis cut costs on a starter who wasn’t gonna make a difference this year, and acquired a young starter, capable of replacing most of Grays innings. (Fitts threw 152.2 innings in 2023.)
They also recieved a solid SP prospect with the basic raw tools…FB/SL…that orgs covet. If he develops a third pitch, he’s a SP. If not he profiles as a back end relievers.
If I was a fan of either team, I’d be happy.
Nice add, Beantown… especially with the Birds throwing in 20 large.
My favorite former A’s starting pitcher going to my favorite MLB team outside of my region. Might have to attend a A’s and Red Sox game in West Sacramento next season.
Every year for the past 11 years we trade 90% of dudes for a couple of nobody pitchers. It’s like groundhog day. When are we going to get a guy who bats over .230?
He’s an average pitcher now, and not getting any younger.
STL did Gray a favor…good pick up for BOS as he takes the ball every 5th day and even with a bad STL team last year he was 14-8.
@ Steven Adams
Sandoval didn’t have TJ surgery, he had internal brace surgery.
Other than having a great name, especially for a mlb pitcher this is a positive move for the r Sox. Don’t concern yourself with his anxiety in playing in the fishbowl. He’s a veteran now and his head is in a much better place than years ago. He’s a solid # 3 could even be a #2. Best of luck to him. IMHO
A little surprised to see Fitts as part of the trade. But it’s hard to dislike this one for the Red Sox. He’s not the #2 starter we were hoping to see but I guess he’s basically Gio’s replacement.
Would any more Yankees fans like to point out that Sonny Gray had a bad year in New York 10 yrs ago? A few dozen more times should really drive the point home I think.
I think this will be the first of 2 pitching moves the Red Sox will make this offseason. They’ll either get a back end rotation piece and consider Gray & Bello as their 2 and 3 starters, or get a number 2 (like a Ryan or Cease) and slot Gray and Bello as 3 and 4. Time will tell, I suppose…
Finally the tear down/rebuild is starting for the Cards. The delay can’t all be put on management as multiple players held NTC’s and weren’t willing to waive them until now, sounds like a couple of those guys understand that the team won’t be competitive for a few years and are ready to head out of town.
Adding money got the Cards two decent prospects, as long as they don’t shy away from adding cash with other outgoing players, the prospect haul may be decent enough to start pushing the team into the new direction that was sorely needed.
Maybe,just maybe Tolle or Early is the number 2.Maybe they will suck but you won’t know until they get a chance to prove themselves.If you don’t have that faith in them,trade them.
Dick fitts in st louis
Can’t believe the Red Sox didn’t have Gray take a physical omg
Fitts is better than Grey at this time and to send him and a prospect is ludicrous. And watch no money back
Come on now. You don’t really believe this.
Do u actually follow sports
I don’t understand this. I think Richard Fitts has more upside over the next 4-5 years than Sonny has, plus Fitts is cheaper. I know he’s only signed through this season with an option, but this still confuses me.
If you use bWAR (which uses runs allowed) it seems confusing, but Gray was top-10 in MLB last year (among starters) in both K% and BB% plus he’s an innings eater. He’s a MUCH bettter pitcher than Fitts is now, and likely ever will be. Pretty sure Fitts wasn’t even the main piece in the deal for the Cardinals.
Gray is more expensive, but Fitts had no shot at cracking the Red Sox rotation.
Fair point. But how has his bWar been the rest of his career in the AL or at least in the east? I don’t know but maybe it’s better than I think. He’s not going to be pitching in the NL central anymore and will be 36. Even if Fitts wasn’t going to make the rotation, why bring in someone who has a bad AL east track record and increase your payroll. I hope the best for gray and does well next season.
@soxnation4 His bad AL East track record was for less than 1.5 seasons and took place 7 years ago. I’m not a fan of tracking performance on a division basis (especially these days with near-balanced schedules) but even still, it’s so long ago that I doubt it’s relevant.
Also, he had 2.0 fWAR in 195.1 innings which is similar to Giolito’s output but with fewer injury concerns. So his floor is likely similar to Giolito’s expected output. It’s not a can’t miss frontline starter, but it’s an upgrade from what the team had, and possibly a sizable one. We’ll see.
Just saying, Brayan Bello should be lumped in with the And the everyone else’s. He might be the number 3 in Boston right now, but he’s never looked good in the 5-6 games I’ve seen of his. Glad my Cardinals didn’t get him back in the return. They’d sell him as a number 1 and there is a local radio host who would be pushing the it too.
Bello has really good stuff and SHOULD be good…but yeah, he hasn’t quite made it yet. Boston media at one point was touting Bello and Giolito as #2s, but in reality they were closer to 3-4s. Last year his BABIP and HR/9 were both down, but there was nothing to indicate those were skill-based and will likely regress.
I really hope he makes the next step this year. He’s got stuff to be better. I do think he controlled his emotions better, which is the first step. But I want to see more from him next season.
So Boston is saying Gray is worth 1 year $20 million plus two prospects.
That is the price to avoid the free agent market.
It will be interesting to see what guys like Cease and King ultimately land. The guy who moves first might look brilliant, foolish, or anywhere in between.
As a Red Sox fan who follows them pretty closely, it’s likely the ‘years’ that scared them. They’re reluctant to give any pitcher a long-term deal unless they’re in their early-to-mid twenties. (Just look at their FA signings last year: Buehler and Sandoval)
WC – you hit the nail right on the head! The Sox M.O. has been 1yr for SPs, and position player contracts not taking the player past 34yo.
Unfortunately on the SP side I think this is probably it. And we may see Eugenio here on a two year deal.
But, i’m excited for the Sox as players in either the Skubal or Skenes market.
Bloom took everyone that sits at the decision making round table in Boston, bent them over and stuck it to them dry. It’s a disgrace and they should all be fired. The FO are keeping all their bullets for Skubal next offseason.
Dick Fitts analogies aside, if you’re saying this trade will enable them to sign Skubal next offseason, I should be ecstatic! (I’m doubtful though based on how long a contract Skubal will demand)
Solid trade. Gray makes the Sox better next season as a solid #2/3. I don’t think Fitts is more than a 4/5 and Clarke tbd. The money that the Cards are including makes it a no-brainer.
THE Dick Fitts?!
This is a Solid move….. and I really don’t think they gave up much… but time will tell. This basically says they like what they got in Early, Tolle, Dobbins, Harrison, Kutter Crawford & Sandoval….. not to mention Witherspoon who will be a stud as well.
I still think Tolle is a high leverage Reliever and not a Starter.
Either guy has a chance to be something, or to be nothing. I like it.
Based on what Cooper? Based on what you saw when he came only throwing fastball and a cutter? I think he’s a starter long term and a real good one. It’s like people forget this guy started the year in High A and pitched to the big leagues. Along the way he started to develop his cutter, curve, change, and sweeper. When he started the season he was a fastball, slider guy now he has the start of a 5 pitch mix but it’s rudimentary. I will say this when he got to AA he threw some really good kick change ups and sweepers but unfortunately it was learning on the fly so he telegraphed his change and sweeper at times. He’s not close to a finished product let’s see how he looks in spring training how those secondaries are coming along. He will have full off-season in Fort Myers and I expect his secondaries to show marked improvement. Let’s not forget not only was this his first professional season but it was also his second full season of pitching exclusively. When he played for Whichita State his first 2 seasons he pitched and played the field and DH’d. It wasn’t until he went to TCU that he focused exclusively on pitching. When he pitched in the big leagues he was already over the most amount of innings he ever pitched. I’m just curious to find out why you think he’s a reliever and not a starter long term do you still think that after learning some other facts about him? Not to mention he’s built like a starter and he’s a strike thrower he screams future starter and a real good one.
There’s nothing more thrilling than giving up millions of dollars and getting nothing in return
Cardinals are including $20MM of cash to help offset Gray’s salary.
Still paying $21M, compared to Fitts’ lower salary it’s still a hit on the money we opened for free agency.
Cards definitely aren’t making any major splashes in free agency. They may get an old guy who doesn’t get hurt much to eat innings with a low-mid 4’s ERA. That’s about all they’re looking for this year.
In fairness, the Cards got a back of the rotation guy for this year, and they need guys to eat innings this year. They got a project in Clarke who likely isn’t going to succeed long term. He has already had multiple major injuries, something that isn’t going to end for a guy who throws like he does. He can strike guys out, but he walks an insane amount of guys and looks like Rick Ankiel, post breakdown, in terms of walks and wild pitches. If they could turn him around in another deal, that would be most ideal, but I’m sure they think they can fix him….which is unlikely.
Clarke could be a big bullpen arm, throwing one inning at a time.
I couldn’t imagine the cardinals getting a better return. And apparently they can’t either or they would have waited
I hope the Sox don’t stop there. I’d love to see them add one more top of the rotation starter. They almost got Ryan from the Twins at the deadline, and I could very much see the Twins making him or Pablo Lopez available this offseason. The Sox still have the pieces to get it done even after this trade.
They should grab giolito then focus on hitting
In hopes that this isn’t the end & just the beginning! To me, I see Gray as a #3 guy in a rotation…inning eater, doesn’t miss starts & handles a workload decently. I would like to see them get after it & sign either Cease or Suarez for the #2 slot or maybe even King or Ryan. Then go get a big bat/run producer for the line up.
Since trading with StL why didn’t they try to get Romero in the deal? LoL
Time will tell….
Boring win win trade. Or meh meh trade. Seems very fair though. Cards dump large chunk of salary and get a interesting arm. Sox get a starter for good price being it’s only 1 year. Must not think much of Clarke or they would have just signed a free agent. More likely to be a reliever or even nothing than a starter but it’s too early to know for sure. If Gray doesn’t decline it will be good trade. Already good for Cards.
Pretty exciting how Red Sox saved all that money. Makes them more even more dangerous throughout rest of FA
Might be a long shot but maybe the Braves could get Mason Wynn from the Cardinals. Not sure what they would have to offer though.
More like no shot. He’s a cornerstone of the future.
He is certainly not a corner stone. He’s a less pop better average Orlando Arcia. Basically Andrelton Simmons. So maybe the Braves would like him. I’d rather have a real hitter at SS in STL personally. Trade Winn and pick up Bitchette. I’ll live with the errors for 100 RBI.
Simmons had a great career. Get what you are saying, but can def do much worse
$20 mil for a #3 rental workhorse is aight. We’ll see in a few years if it pans out for the Cards….
Doesn’t have too. They got 2 solid prospects for 20 mil. Done and done
Can the Red Sox trade Gray or does he still have no trade rights? Now that the deal has been slightly restructured & he is now guaranteed an extra million dollars — likely a kicker for him to waive his no-trade protection – are future trade rights negated?
It’s still in his contract, and the Red Sox now control his contract, so there’s no reason to think it would be gone. That said, they adjusted the terms of his contract so it’s possible (but unlikely in my opinion) that he agreed to remove it in return for the additional revenue he’ll now be receiving.
Keep in mind, he’s not just getting the 1mil, but also a guarantee on the additional 5mil which he would not have received had he opted out of his contract (if Cardinals had first picked up his option). Only time will tell who won this trade in the long term, but whatever the result, Gray is clearly a winner. (I haven’t seen any details on the new terms of the mutual option, but this is how it has been reported)
Side note: If a player has a no-trade clause through 10-5 rights then they lose their no-trade privileges upon commencement of a trade, but that’s not what happened here and is a slightly different scenario.
As a Yankee fan I’m happy he’s in Boston now., we needed someone other than Chapman to hate on now that Bergman and Devers are gone. The list of hated players from each team has gotten a bit thin lately . I wonder who gets booed worse, Sonny in NY or Cam in Boston
Better hope Bregman is gone lol
This is a good trade for Breslow and Boston. They have significantly increased the floor of this rotation and they didn’t give up too much in doing so. Fitts didn’t have a spot on the team moving forward except possibly in the bullpen. I really didn’t see Fitts having a starting rotation spot in Worcester either, he’s an afterthought. Clarke has a great arm but he’s still in A ball and the jury is still out if he can throw enough strikes. The team now has a top 3 of Crochet, Gray, and Bello. They also have Early, Crawford, Dobbins, Sandoval, Harrison, and possibly Tolle battling it out for the last two spots. They still have a lot of ammo to trade for more upgrades.
If he is the Red Sox #3, Bello #4, open audition for #5 and then go get another ace or real #2 then it is a good trade. They gave up a scratch ticket rookie in A ball. Fitz is ok but odds are he is what he is.
Ok start but lets see where they finish.
Cards got two damn good prospects. They paid 20 mil for em !
Good move.
Just like the Astros. They have depth options, just not good ones.
You saw the options for the Red Sox.
Options for the Astros
Jason Alexander, Colton Gordon, AJ Blubaugh, Miguel Ullola, JP France, and other options in the minors like Ethan Pecko.
The Astros and Red Sox aren’t poaching those newbies, they have the newbies. They want an established starter. Gray is the one for the RSox. While on the other hand, the Astros have to still find one.
Well well well Red Sox, enjoy what we were trying to get since 2017.
I was kind of hoping the Jays might pick him up if things didn’t work out on the free aging market for starting pitching. Seems like not a lot of Boston fans are happy about the deal, but I think he’s going to be better than you think.
The Sox are a better team with him in the fold. Let’s hope it works out that way.
Redsox paid a haul in prospect value. They ain’t done
They gave up 12 years of control for one season of gray. Thats a lot to give up
I think the bigger deal than the RSOX “getting a solid 2” is that this moves Bello down to 3. Sonny is a solid arm, but not a great 2 in the AL East IMO. Remember that he has pitched there before and it was bad, granted it was with the Yankees who were asking him to pitch differently than he wanted too. If he stays healthy and gives 160 innings of 3.75 era and a 1.15 whip or better, than it’s a huge win for the RSox. I still think they need another arm. I would have loved for them to get Joe Ryan and then lock him up like they did with Crochett. If they get another arm via trade, one of Sonnys caliber or maybe not quite as good but better than what they have, then they have a rotation comparable to the Jays… again IMO… I think they now go get Alonso and Suarez for 3B, trade away Casas and an OF to get another arm, and then maybe a little patch work. As a fan, I’d rather get 60-80 hr from 1b/3b as well as improve the rotation than get Bregman back and not improve the rotation as much.
Suarez/Alonso dwarfs Bregman Casas. Sure it’s money, but it’s also time!