2:50pm: Cherington told the Pirates beat today that Kelly’s appointment is “permanent for 2025” (link via Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette). He could end up being considered for 2026 and beyond, but for the time being, the team is only committing to the remainder of the current season. That seems to set the stage for a broad-reaching managerial search this winter.
11:42am: The Pirates announced Thursday that they’ve fired manager Derek Shelton, who’d been in his position for the past five-plus seasons. Bench coach Don Kelly has been elevated to the managerial position.
“Derek worked incredibly hard and sacrificed a lot over five-plus years. His family became a big part of the Pirates family, and we will miss that,” general manager Ben Cherington said in a statement within today’s press release. “He’s an incredibly smart, curious, and driven baseball leader. I believe he was the right person for the job when he was hired. I also believe that a change is now necessary. I wish Derek and his family all the best in their next chapter.”
Shelton, 54, was hired by the Pirates in the 2019-20 offseason, replacing longtime skipper Clint Hurdle. He’d served as the bench coach in Minnesota prior to his hiring and has also had a long run as a big league hitting coach, spending 2005-09 in Cleveland and 2010-16 in Tampa Bay. The Jays hired Shelton as a quality control coach for the 2017 season, after which he spent two years in Minnesota.
Shelton was the first major hire under Cherington, though he’d been under consideration for the managerial vacancy in Pittsburgh even before the Pirates fired former GM Neal Huntington (a curiously timed move, given that he’d been leading the early stages of said managerial search). In parts of six seasons under Shelton, the Bucs have posted a 306-440 record, topping out at 76 wins in a given season (a mark they reached twice). Pittsburgh is out to a 12-26 start on the season, effectively tanking any faint trace of playoff hopes they had coming into the season. Owner Bob Nutting referenced that grim start to the season in his own statement.
“Derek is a good man who did a lot for the Pirates and Pittsburgh, but it was time for a change,” said Nutting. “The first quarter of the season has been frustrating and painful for all of us. We have to do better. I know that. Ben knows that. Our coaches know that. Our players know that. There is a lot of baseball left to be played. We need to act with a sense of urgency and take the steps necessary to fix this now to get back on track as a team and organization.”
There’s no denying the Pirates’ poor performance under Shelton, but it’s also hard to pin that performance on a skipper who was never handed much to work with. Nutting’s mention of acting with “urgency” feels borderline farcical at a time when, for the second straight year, the Pirates have baseball’s top pitching prospect obliterating Triple-A lineups as the back end of the major league staff flounders.
Last year, it was Paul Skenes, who didn’t make his MLB debut until May 6 and promptly took baseball by storm. Skenes started the All-Star Game, won NL Rookie of the Year and finished third in Cy Young voting. This year, Bubba Chandler is sitting on a 2.25 ERA and 38.3% strikeout rate in seven Triple-A starts. The Pirates’ fourth and fifth starters, Bailey Falter and Carmen Mlodzinski, have ERAs of 5.06 and 6.16, respectively. Jared Jones, their second- or third-best starter, has been on the injured list all season. It’s impossible not to wonder if Nutting feels burned by Skenes earning a full year of service by virtue of that Rookie of the Year win and is thus waiting even longer to pull the trigger on Chandler’s promotion.
Beyond the contradictory nature of those “urgency” comments and the Pirates’ actions with Chandler, Nutting has flatly refused to invest in the team via free agency. The Pirates have never signed a free agent to a larger contract than the three-year, $39MM deal signed by Francisco Liriano more than a decade ago.
As shown in MLBTR’s Contract Tracker, they haven’t signed a single free agent to a multi-year deal since their nearly decade-old signing of righty Ivan Nova on a three-year, $26MM contract. Not only that, the Pirates have only once topped $8MM on a one-year free agent deal in that same span — Aroldis Chapman’s $10.5MM contract in the 2023-24 offseason. Using that same data from our Contract Tracker, the Pirates have spent a total of $173.65MM on free agents since their last playoff appearance a decade ago.
Certainly, free agency isn’t a cure-all that’s bound to fix everything that ails an organization. Major free agent signings can often be a setback, in fact. But completely eschewing even the middle tiers of the open market and steadfastly avoiding any kind of mid-range spending to complement the roster does not put the baseball operations or dugout staffs in position to succeed.
That’s not to say Shelton and the front office are without fault, but the margin for error for those key decisionmakers is rendered razor-thin when ownership is content to average the $69.4MM payroll (excluding the shortened 2020 season) that’s been trotted out in the five 162-game seasons under Shelton. Pittsburgh was 55-52 at last year’s trade deadline. Shelton and his staff clearly bear some responsibility for the team’s post-deadline struggles. However, critics would be remiss not to point out that ownership’s tight budget, which led Cherington & Co. to pursue cost-effective deadline acquisitions like Bryan De La Cruz and Isiah Kiner-Falefa (while subtracting Martin Perez), didn’t put give them the best chance to capitalize on their strong play through the first two-thirds of the season.
The Pirates’ player development — or the lack thereof — over the past several seasons also surely factors into the decisions. Skenes has been a roaring success. Jones looked the part of a potential high-end starter prior to his injury. Mitch Keller, Bryan Reynolds and Oneil Cruz are all quality big leaguers — the latter standing as a potential star. However, the majority of the organization’s top prospects over the years, particularly the hitters, simply haven’t panned out. Injuries have impacted some of them, most notably including Ke’Bryan Hayes and Endy Rodriguez. But prospects like Nick Gonzales, Liover Peguero and Henry Davis have all struggled upon reaching the majors. Other young hitters (e.g. Jack Suwinski) looked to be on the cusp of breaking out before taking significant steps back in their second and third looks at big league pitching.
With Shelton being shown the door, Kelly will now be tasked with the unenviable goal of trying to right this ship. The former big league utilityman retired after the 2016 season and took a role in the Tigers’ player development department for the 2017 season. He then spent a year in Detroit’s scouting ranks before being hired by the Astros as their first base coach. Shelton tabbed Kelly as his bench coach just weeks after being hired, and Kelly has been his right-hand man for the pair’s nearly six years in Pittsburgh.
There’s no “interim” tag in today’s press release from the Pirates. It’s not yet clear whether they’ll conduct a new search for a managerial replacement at season’s end or whether Kelly, a Pittsburgh native, will hold his new role into 2026.
“Donnie is as respected as any person in our clubhouse and throughout our organization,” Nutting said of Kelly in today’s press release. “He is a Pirate. He bleeds black and gold. No one is more committed, and no one loves this team or city more than Donnie. He is the right person to manage our team and help get us back on track.”
Weird, totally out of the blue.
Lol
I would’t call his firing “ out of the blue “
7 shutout losses in first 36 games, 7 game losing streak, 10 out of last 11 games, a loss
Last 12 times, only 14 runs scored
They are on pace to win 51 games
Someone had to be held accountable, Shelton was most likely candidate
“Someone had to take accountability”… Um how about Bob Nutting? You can’t expect the team to be successful when he refuses to invest in the quality of the team. Just like any other business, you have to invest in improving your product if you expect to compete with the best. Bob Nutting is a truly pathetic individual and an embarrassment to the entire sport. He has ruined a historic franchise. The pirates have a great stadium in a good city with passionate and loyal sports fans. Such a shame.
Enrico – So true! Pirates have been my favorite NL franchise since the ’70’s, it’s a shame how far down they’ve gone.
But in all fairness, part of the problem is the economy in that region. Cleveland and Cincy are in the same boat, they need to bring back jobs …. that would boost the income in the region, which would in turn increase the team revenue ….. provided of course the owners spend.
You get swept by the Cardinals, you gotta go.
I get what you’re saying except Nutting can’t be fired no matter how much we want him to go
Unemployment rate in Pittsburgh is 3.9%.
Jobs in technology, healthcare and services are the leading employment sectors.
Sorry but steel is unlikely to return to the 1950’s
.
Where do you get your information from?
@Man 3 , yet your comment above this one is likely typical of what Nutting hopes to accomplish with much of the Pirate fans in the middle of the bell-shaped curve. Appeasing the masses and distracting from the fact the owner only cares about his profit margin, NOT putting a solid product in front of fans to celebrate.
Nutting is bad for baseball.
I don’t disagree about Nutting but facts don’t lie.
Employment in Pittsburgh is of the national average
Increasing attendance at Pirates games only generates so much income. Nutting makes his money on revenue sharing, so as long as the Dodgers are selling a billion Dodger dogs then Nutting is eating filet mignon
Yep. It’s a bummer but we have to figure out how to win as a small market. Maybe if attendance rises or a new cba they will spend more, but no owner would in this situation.
There’s a blueprint for consistency as a small market team. Pirates check none of the boxes. Don’t get good value in trades, whiff on picks, re-sign the wrong players, coach a poor hitting approach. Teams like the Rays, Guardians, Royals, and Brewers are in near identical situations and while they aren’t world beaters, they are at least relevant.
Give the people a reason (a competitive team) to come to the games, and they will come. It doesn’t and shouldn’t work the other way around.
@theman3 Agree 100 percent. How could anyone be surprised by this!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@theman3 @AI GM: It’s called sarcasm. Look it up.
s/
the internet way of sarcasm
learn it
@mattmoney OH okay. I get it now!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!
@TheMan3 Are you sure you are not talking about the Blue Jays?
Wish they would do the same.
Excuse me sir? Yes, I think you forgot that the person who commented was laying heavy sarcasm on! You’re welcome
The big question is:
Did they clear this with Oneil Cruz first?
FINALLY! (Sell the team though, Bob)
Yeah- the Pirates need to get censured/penalized, etc. like the Athletics were.
Look at what happened when the league *forced* the Athletics to function like an actual major league ball club intentionally trying to compete and not intentionally trying to tank…. they signed ‘random’ but still high profile free agents to deals and *magically* they’re functionally competitive this season. Crazy how that works…
What about Colorado?
Colorado is likely ‘next’ on that list, but they do spend money like a large market club here and there and a lot of their problems are related to the altitude of their stadium, if I recall correctly.
The Rockies payroll sits at $125 million which is just shy of doubling the average payroll in Pittsburgh.
Some owners just suck and spend money foolishly. Arte Moreno is the poster child for this but the Kris Bryant contract is arguably the second worst in baseball behind Rendon’s.
Nutting keeps payroll so low he’s guaranteed a huge profit just off revenue sharing and the league. He fails to even remotely try to compete.
Don’t forget the Ian Desmond contract.
I often wonder about deals like that- baseball is very weird that way, but the reality is they were signing a 4 WAR player… that said- again, Colorado’s altitude has such a huge and very specific impact on the results of players otherwise standard efforts that it’s almost like the Rockies need to accept that whomever they sign that didn’t always play with them from the beginning of their careers is going to crater due to the literal atmosphere of the stadium.
-Dante Bichette
-Larry Walker
-Ellis Burks
-Andres Galarraga
-Jeff Cirillo
-Jeffrey Hammonds
-Preston Wilson
People used to come to Colorado and have amazing seasons. What changed?
@halosheavenjj. You forgot the Stephen Strasburg contract. $245 million for a little over 30 innings pitched.
There’s less offensive talent. That’s the biggest reason. Even the current Dodgers don’t have the talent you just mentioned in your post.
True. That was bad.
At least Stras had great moments for that franchise before that contract. Rendon and Bryant not so much.
Couldn’t be more right in my opinion.
They didn’t magically get better a lot of there good players were already with the team like Rooker, Sears, Butler, Soderstorm, Miller, Wilson, Kurtz.
Yes but the A’s typically had good, homegrown players. They were supplemented by the cheapest free agents possible and traded the moment they got remotely expensive.
Now that the A’s have surrounded their young talent with actual MLB talent, they are a good team. And a couple even got extensions to stick around and be goof for the A’s.
@HalosHeavenJJ that’s all on the work of Billy Beane and Bob Melvin’s managing, not Fisher.
ReyDay is right. This is deductive reasoning. The A’s draft and develop well. They have a decent core and were going to be a decent team. Their only productive offseason signings were Urias and Severino
It’s sad that Shelton is the scapegoat and this buys nutting some more time to keep doing his thing and make profit
Granted cherington has not been good but he only has pennies to play with
Nutting only stands to make more money once the A’s and Rays are settled in homes and Manfred announces new expansion cities before he retires in 2029. He’s not selling unfortunately for Bucs fans.
Nutting is the problem but Shelton is the low hanging fruit. Typical move. Not defending Shelton so much as saying the team is flawed and cheap and Bruce Bochy couldn’t win with that roster so what are they saying here? They don’t have a clue so what now? Without solving the real problem it’s hey let’s go sideways.
I don’t blame him for the failures. Anybody who’s hired to be the manager of the Pirates feels doomed to walk the plank sooner rather than later.
Feels like he was forced to fall on the sword, not unlike a CEO of a publicly traded company who’s fired due to economic conditions outside of their control… like whoever manages the Pirates, who are notoriously run by penny pinchers trying to field the cheapest, weakest team possible and get lucky.
Walk the plank: I like that one.
Oh, Shelton CERTAINLY bears a lot of the blame in this debacle. He was NEVER qualified for his position.
How can you tell if he’s ready to be a major league manager when he’s largely given minor league players and expected to win against major league teams?
Exactly my thoughts. The Pirates are always near the bottom in payroll every year. Reminds me of when the Tigers made Alan Trammell their manager. In a no win situation.
I can tell because it’s been OVER 5 YEARS and he is still waaaay over his head. His bullpen mngmnt alone cost the Bucs from at least a .500 record last year, which would have bought him more time and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Their bullpen is horrible, to be fair.
He was referring to last year’s bullpen
Shelton is awful. If you know anything about baseball you only need to watch 5 games or so.
The 2024 Pirates bullpen ranked 27th in MLB. Hard to mismanage a pen almost totally devoid of talent. Yet another thing that is Nutting’s responsibility.
Last years bullpen was horrible.
If Shelton was the problem then I’ll assume Kelly will be leading the Bucs to the NL pennant!
Kelly should do better. Lots of new better players coming. Why Cherington fired Shelton. See it was Shelton fault!
This is a terrible team in all respects, and is made up largely of castoffs and never weres. Shelton is not a very good manager, but to blame him for the failure of this team to compete is to defy common sense. I imagine Shelton feels some relief this afternoon though he’d never say so.
Yet another reminder that your boss will throw you under the bus for their mismanagement the first chance they get. This organization is pathetic.
This is truer than ever in every job / industry.
Shelton same exact manager as 2021 2022. Yet Cherington extended him and didn’t fire him before season started.
I can see why a GM on the hot seat is reluctant to fire the field manager, seeing as it just puts the spotlight on him even harder.
But I don’t realistically expect anything to change. You pinch pennies on every piece of the team, it’s not a surprise when free agents don’t come, prospects don’t get developed, etc.
Exactly! You manage the team with what the GM puts together and the manager is never given much to work with here.
Both of them are mediocre.
His bullpen decisions alone justified the firing
Absolutely
You mean choosing between what AA or AAA quality pitcher to bring in? Get real if you don’t have the horses you don’t win the race 99% of the time.
Well if you don’t bother to train or feed or care for your horses, then don’t even bother.
last year when it was obvious that Bednar didn’t have his best stuff in closing games, Shelton continued to use him instead of using Chapman
Bednar blew 7 save opportunities in games they should have won
Rec’d
Lack of fundamental baseball, lack of discipline with the players, different lineup almost every game
Shelton wanted to be friends with the players and not their leader
He was never qualified to be manager in the first place
He was an assistant hitting coach before becoming manager in Pittsburgh
Why was the offense so bad if he had experience in coaching hitters?
Every fan feels that way about the manager and their bullpen management. I have read plenty of Dodgers fans lament Roberts’ bullpen usage.
If that’s your biggest complaint, it seems arbitrary
Yes! I was hoping today would be the day, an off day after a disastrous stretch. Will Cherington be let go at the end of the season? Hope springs eternal.
Hopefully before then!
Cherington should not be allowed anywhere near this year’s draft.
it doesn’t matter as long as Nutting is the owner
I’m not a Bob Nutting fan at all but the Pirates did compete for a few years when he was the owner. He obviously made a huge mistake with Cherington though.
Holy crap! I did not expect that. But his bullpen, roster, and line-up management has been horrible. You can call the Pirates cheap, and they are, but Shelton has done a horrific job with what he’s been given. They could totally be better than this with even average roster management.
You can blame him for bullpen and lineup management, but roster management is generally handled by the GM.
You can also blame the manager for not actively trying to get the best out of his players and coaching staff too.
Funny you didn’t mention that he allowed players to jog to bases, to admire long fly balls that turn doubles into singles, handfuls of sunflower seeds by the 3rd baseman while a ball is in play and cell phones falling out of back pockets on slides, catchers lobbing tosses to the pitcher with runners on base. The lack of hustle has been appalling. The lack of focus, ridiculous. Add this to the incredible lack of knowledge of baseball basics….yes, agreed.
That’s not what I was most concerned about. Sure, there were issues, but things like Hayes eating sunflower seeds on a play he wasn’t even close to being involved with only ever happened once and his work ethic has been great since. Rodolfo Castro isn’t even on the team anymore. But that doesn’t excuse the lack of proficient line-up/bullpen/roster usage. OUtright horrible decision after horrible decision.
Hayes was picked off second because he wasn’t paying attention to the game last week.
Davis tried to pick off a player at third base the other day and Hayes wasn’t again paying attention, the ball almost ended up in the outfield
Shelton’s lack of player discipline was an ongoing problem
Outsider looking in: your Pirates have a horrendous offense. Really bad, and that is not Shelton’s fault.
I’d rather take the view of Pirates fans blaming Shelton AND the owner AND the GM.
They are all to blame.
Nutting will put more money into the team if they any good like they were 2013-2015.
Cherington has done certain things reasonably well but needs a baseball man over him.His hitting development has been atrocious.
Shelton did not pay attention to fundamentals and did not discipline his players.He also had serious problems with managing the bullpen.
He kept on doing the same stupid things over and over and over and Cherington did not hold his feet to the fire.
This should have happened two years ago.
Every good Pirate fan pretty much knows that.
They will be getting some players back from injury and if Kelly wants to keep his job he will not make the same stupid mistakes like letting hitters take fastballs straight down the middle for strike three.
Shelton is a nice guy but he absolutely deserves to be fired.
Like two years ago.
The Pirates do have some good hitters, but there’s literally no reason to pitch to them if they’re pushing Alexander Canario, Tommy Pham, and Jared Triolo out there most days. There’s been 3 black holes in the line-up most of the time. Derek Shelton is refusing to play guys they call up too. Matt Gorski is getting just as much playing time as Canario, despite going yard in his first game, then refusing to start him. They call up Liover Peguero after he did okay at Triple-A, and keep playing Triolo. Shelton could demand they call up Billy Cook or Nick Yorke, and he isn’t.
Mlb1225
I remember when they called up Andujar and Shelton hardly played him for some reason and they didn’t resign him.
Could sure use his bat this year.
Triolo should only be used in late innings and as a defensive reliever
He stinks at the plate
Shelton liked Andujar and said that he was an rbi machine.
That was one of many goof ups of Cherington that brought us two negative WAR rightfielders last year.
We still do not know how much Cherington and his statistics affected the lineups.
Andujar wouldn’t make a dent in this lineup.
Tbf, Andujar did really well with limited playing time. He’s built for more of a platoon/part-time role than a fulltime role. Wish he were here over Tommy Pham though.
Tommy Pham has a 36 OPS+, Miguel Andujar has a 120 OPS+. Both have about the same amount of plate appearances. That’s an 84 point difference in OPS+. The difference between Pham and Andujar is about the same difference as league average and Barry Bonds (182 career OPS+). He may not be a huge bat, but he would have been a humongus step forward from what they got now. It’s an even greater, 109 point difference in OPS+ between Canario and Andujar. Aaron Judge is 110 points better than league average in OPS+.
You didn’t expect this???? He’s the first inept manager in pirates history…and you didn’t expect this? ARE you living in a bubble for the last 5 years?
Interesting to see if they keep Kelly for the rest of the year.
No, I didn’t expect it because the Pirates typically make the wrong decision 90% of the time. Yes, I totally wanted him gone, but GMBC has showed very little aggression or urgency with stuff like this. I was totally prepared for him to still be the manager in 2026, simpily because of the lack of urgency and aggression, not because he’s a good manager (because he isn’t).
according to other reports I read Nuttting was embarrassed by the lack of offense over the last dozen games .
Cherington is probably on the hot seat too now
In all honesty I had hoped that it would happen for two years and it obviously needed to be done but I am somewhat like mlb as it has been so long to be necessary that I figured that Cherington could not pull the plug and Nutting would have to do so.
If this was Nutting’s doing then Cherington will most certainly be gone at the end of this year.
@Mendoza I wasn’t completley onboard with Shelton being the manager heading into 2024, but I was completley off the Shelton train after how he handled David Bednar and Colin Holderman last season. He kept trotting them out there like it was prime Tony Watson/Mark Melancon, when they were clearing having trouble, and refused to turn to anyone else. He tanked August and September by doing that. I think this is a desperation move by Cherington. Screams “If you can’t turn this team around by the trade deadline, you’re out of here, Ben.”
John Russell says hi
Ok, the seal is broken. Your move Braves.
The Braves aren’t firing Snitker. Best case scenario is that he realizes himself he has no magic touch at his age and retires after the season.
Snitker just steered them out of the cellar using Alex verdugo and Eli white as everyday starters
I think if a manager can work with that then he should be allowed to stay
This would be hilarious as ATL is coming to town tomorrow. Both teams with interim managers. It would make for good TV.
There is absolutely no reason to fire Snitker. If I was going to change anything in Atlanta, I’d look at the training staff. Injuries have hurt the team more than anything.
Getgone2;
LOL
Walk the plank ye scurvy loser.
I am sure Pirates fans are cheering, but like the Reds, the issues start high up.
I’m celebrating more in the sense that it’s one less tired old complaint I have to hear at PNC twice a week.
Like we get it guys…Bob is cheap, Cherington is clueless, Shelton is incompetent. Come up with some original material.
Bob Nutting is cheap, Ben Cherington is clueless, and Shelton was an incompetent manager.
Want more?
The Pirates are honestly a bad team.
And yet, all of that is true, whether you’re tired of it or not
I’ve never personally booed a player or manager, and I’ve certainly never called for anyone to be fired. But unless baseball at PNC means fireworks, pierogi races and hot dog launches to you, those responses are acceptable. And your comment, kind of inane
In defense of Pirates fans, what are they expected to do? Cheer that the team only lost by 3 runs instead of 5?
fun fact
Pennsylvania taxpayers funded the construction of PNC Park.
Fans have earned their right to complain about this franchise considering what we had to pay for the stadium
The Reds are playing pretty well.
I am rooting for you since the Pirates will have another losing season.
Always seemed like a nice guy and may be a decent bench coach as I would expect he’s good at building relationships with players. But nice guys don’t always make the best managers. He never seemed to know how to kick guys in the pants when they need to be.
I hope the next manager can hit .270, 35HR’s, OPS 850 and drive in 90. If not, the Pirates arent going to be any better than they are right now.
Sorry, but if youre going into a season with Skenes, Jones, Keller and Heaney and the best offensive free agent you can sign is Tommy Pham, that ain’t the managers fault…….
A competent manager can at least figure out a way to get the best out of the players.
This is one of the least talented rosters in MLB. Leyland couldn’t get much more from them
I understand your thinking. But with this team, the problem starts with the owner.
Fully agree, there’s no denying that either.
Come on, Reynolds isn’t a .220 hitter.
Bart only has 1 homer
Tell me how Shelton got the most out of his players
Compared to Cherington, Neal Huntington looks like one of the best GMs of the 21st century.
A team with the limited financial resources of the Pirates cannot whiff on a 1/1 like Henry Davis. If Davis was even as good as Pedro Alvarez, that would be welcome news.
What Huntingdon did here is nothing short of a miracle.
Eventually his bag of tricks ran out, but he inherited two or three guys worth a **** in the entire system and turned it into a 99 win team.
Actually, I think the GREAT managers figure out a way to get the best of their players but sometimes that best isn’t even good.. Unfortunately, the only great thing about the Pirates is their history which is something upper management is ruining by only caring about the bottom line.
Got this alert just after the alerts that white smoke seen over the Vatican. Coincidence? 99.999% chance of that. But if it isn’t, then things are about to get really interesting!
Maybe if it was the Cardinals manager.
As long as ownership remains the same so will the outlook for the team.
I’m surprised Don Kelly hasn’t been a manager before this. Non including a few times where Derek Shelton either took a personal day off for family reasons or maybe he was suspended. Don Kelly should be a solid Manager. Whether it’s a main stay with Pittsburgh or elsewhere.
There has to be a few extra wins in there just teaching guys how to handle fly balls where two infielders and an outfielder are converging, or getting guys in from third with less than 2 outs. They may be the most talented team in the league at giving opponents 4 and 5 outs in an inning.
And maybe I’m wrong, but this is the kind of a MLB manager shouldn’t have to teach and should have been sorted out in the minors.
you’re right about the fundamentals being taught in the minors but when they lack basic understanding of baseball, it’s up to the coaches and manager to teach them and Shelton didn’t.
It was almost like he would just go through the motions as manager and always had a BS excuse after each loss
As if Shelton is to blame for the Pirates lack of success. But happy for Don Kelly. Don Kelly Don Kelly, Don Kelly, you cannot stop him you can only hope to contain him!
Dandy Don Kelly, Mr. versatility himself gets his chance! Hopefully he’ll be able to succeed where many, many others have failed…wishing him the best of luck as he’ll certainly need it
Lol getting no hitters and firing your manager for that is wild.
The manager was expected to take a leadership role and expect and motivate and get the best out of the players.
You can’t get blood from a stone
You can’t name a manager who’d get more out of this roster in terms of talent and ability. Hopefully Kelly will instill the ideas of hustle, focus and professionalism, sorely missing under Shelton
Blaming the manager for Nutting’s cheapness… uh huh, that’s the fix they needed…
Until you figure out the reason Shelton was hired was to perpetuate that cheapness in a leadership role on the field too.
This certainly strikes me as a “See – we did something!” move.
Ya can’t fire all the players.
You could try
Now do the Braves.
Can they fired the front office?
The Pirates haven’t been right since that hit by Francisco Cabrera
This and a new Pope the same afternoon. Proof that God exists
The situation had seemed popeless.
@66 – I heard that Vance had an audience with Shelton last night…
I guess this gives them a glimpse of Kelly before they would have just promoted him at seasons end.
Shelton was just clueless at times, most of the times
Also a Hail Mary by GMBC to save his job
DONNY BASEBALL, BABY
Actually, this is the exact kind of situation where Buck Showalter succeeds. Get him for two years and Bucs are competing for WS in Skene’s final year.
Finally, our prayers have been answered. He should have been let go at the end of last year. Cherington also needs to go. He had a limited budget but he sure knew how to waste what little money he had on free agent players that were busts. We have third worse record in MLB even with one of the best pitchers in Paul Skenes.
Not his fault. Club owners won’t spend to get/keep good players.
Signing Pham for $4 million when there was younger players who wouldn’t have cost as much is a major blow for Cherington’s record
Not one of his draft picks have been major league caliber
Can anyone say #1 draft pick Henry Davis?
His pitching draft picks have worked out better but you can’t always win 1-0 games
He did not help his cause when he continued to show he did not have a plan or path to get off the losing streak. He was critical of players not playing fundamental baseball. That should be covered during spring training. He is (was) the field boss. He needed to go. Yes owner sucks and GM did not make a whole lot of off season moves but is his hands tied. Attendance at PNC will back to 3000 – 3500 that should send a message to MLB. They need to pressure ownership.
As if the manager is the problem. What a joke of an organization!
He actually was, alongside the owner and the GM.
Until we get word that Nutting has sold the team, it doesn’t matter. He’s still a caroetbagger whose sole focus is wealth, we still have a GM who is incompetent, and horrendous player development and scouting departments
Now they should trade Skenes while his value is still high. They could fill 2-3 holes in the lineup and restock the farm system. Bring up Chandler and Harrington. Skenes isn’t doing them a bit of good because the team lacks MLB caliber talent. A trade for blue chip talent would help right the ship.
Probably not a bad idea.
It’s a bad idea until such time as they improve player evaluations for the draft and vastly improve player development. They seem to be doing OK with pitching, but seem clueless on how to develop position players to hit or understand fundamentals. No point in letting Cherinton and the current staff determine who the return for Skenes would be.
Shelton gets fired
Bud Blsck has a job today.
Gimmie break
as long as Nutting holds the checkbook it won’t matter who the manager is
Surprise. I was hoping the new manager would come from the Italian league
Maybe they should make McCutchen bench coach as a player coach.
Why stop at the manager?
Arguably the best pitcher in baseball and the cheap owner doesn’t give him any bats and now the attendance is going down in one of the nicest ball parks in the league. What a shame!
Skenes trade clock has officially started
No matter how much you want it to happen, Skenes isn’t going anywhere for a while
The fans would revolt, what few still attend games
Came on here to see Pirates fans vent-ebrating. Mission accomplished.
Been a Phils fan forever, but really enjoyed those 1970’s plus Pirates teams and Clemente…well, I idolized him. Never had an issue rooting for the Pirates to do well, and it has been sad to see them being so poorly run for a long time now. Yes- ownership is the main issue and things won’t change until that goes through the spin cycle.
Good for Kelly to get the opportunity to manage, but, isn’t promoting from and retaining the same coaching staff that basically helped get to this point where the Manager is fired a lateral move?
It’s a reasonable firing I guess. That team is loaded with young talent – from Paul Skenes to O’Niell Cruz, to 3B wizard K’Bryan Hayes. Nice mix of veterans too in Keller, Reynolds, & Cutch. Two years in a row I’ve bet them to win the NL central, they are definitely underperforming.
?Don’t blame Shelton totally but someone had to go! Next step right away is cut veterans or trade them! Start trades today for hitters,some young pitchers have to be part of deals! Come on Ben grow aset!!
Hah the usual annual sacrificial lamb. This time it’s Shelton. Because we all know it’s his fault… Sell the Pirates and the A’s!
Bring Jeff Banister home
That’s two Pittsburgh sport franchises changing coaches/managers…how bout a trifecta, Steelers?
F should have been fired years ago. Cherington should have been fired 7 months ago.
Not firing Shelton. Signing Pham. Using Holderman in key situations. Playing inferior players. All has lead to their record. They could have at least hung around until help arrived.
Trade Skenes to the Orioles for some combo of Mayo, Cowser, Bassallo, Kjertad, Povich. Trade him now before he hurts his arm and he has zero value. He’s the only chip they have that can bring back enough blue chip prospects that can fill 2-3 holes. They can always bring up Chandler and Harrington and put Modlinski back in the bullpen. If they got a Cowser in return, he would play CF and Cruz can move to 1B with his height and wingspan. Horowitz can play 2B when he comes off the IL.
Orioles should follow suit. The team hasnt furthered any of their development for the last 1.5 years and that is on the coaches.
Too little too late. One thing about free agents,though, is they get to choose who they want to play for. What respectable player wants to play for this clown car organization? Nutting would have to pay double the going rate for anyone decent other than Cutch who is Mr. Pittsburgh. Especially after what they did to Tellez last year.
Now DFA Pham and Canario, send Valdez and Triolo to AAA, put Mlodzinski back in the bullpen, and get some kids up that want to succeed. Play Gorski every day until he proves he is or isn’t a big leaguer. Can’t do any worse.
The farm system is devoid of position player talent.
not exactly true
York and Cooke are talented
If they were, they’d be playing in Pittsburgh.
Should have traded Bednar and Bryan Reynolds when their trade value was high. Small market teams like the Pirates need as many prospects as they can get since they won’t sign anyone.
Part of that theory is that they have been known to trade away veterans and their return has never been beneficial to this organization
They to fire Cherington and hire a GM that won’t get hoodwinked
By worrying about service time for Skenes, the Pirates don’t get a PPI pick for his ROY win. And they don’t even get the extra year of control since he got a full year of service for winning the ROY.
If there is any sense of urgency, it should be on part of ownership to promote players when ready to maximize additional draft compensation.
Which is why we arent seeing Bubba for at least another month
Another scapegoat MGR. It trickles down from the top. Owner doesn’t do their job >>> GM can’t do their job >>> Mgr can’t do his job. ……RESULT. MGR fired. GM fired. Skenes in pinstripes. Start the suffering cycle again. …….Some MLB franchises have no chance in the current financial structure. The top teams and bottom teams must be penalized for spending too much or too little
A+ Cherington for trying to save his job.
Records awful right now. Fire Shelton. New manager will get a better Bednar. Moreta Endy Gonzales Horowitz coming back from injury. Maybe dfa Pham. Bubba Ashcraft Burrows etc.
Oh look how much better we are. Shelton was the problem!
May be time to move Reynolds, plus a couple young arms should bring back some hitters.
Now can we fire the owner and the front office
Interesting decision on Reynolds. He has a reasonable long-term contract and he’s one of the better players on the team. I think you listen but he probably stays.
I might move Keller also.
DONNIE KELLY, BABY!!!
Problem solved
Poor guy….beat before he started. Until The Pirates start investing in their team, with better players, and player development, they will never win anything.. Cherrington is either delusional or BS’ing when he acts like they are going to contend anytime soon.
The team surely hasn’t improved their on-field results under Ben Cherington.
I like how every discussion about how bad the team is ends up to the Bob is cheap cliche. Especially when you consider the rumors and implications of the franchise operating at a loss since the new CBA.
Crappy development and/or scouting staff for the past 10ish years is what has hurt the team the most.
NH did a good job until a series of moves that failed miserably along and was never able to recover.
Ben gave hope, but to me it seemed like he was a iffy choice given his greatest success was winning the series by spending a ton of money. His credits for getting young talent were also overstated.
IMO this is Bens year to hit .500 or take a walk. I’ll run the team in the short term and probably do about the same as BC did.
Maybe Bob Nutting should, you know, sell the team if he’s operating at a loss because clearly he isn’t cut to own the Pirates.
I don’t believe anything that comes out of the mouth of this organization.
Nutting doesn’t spend a dime of his own money.
No owner would allow his organization to lose money and not sell it
The fact that he still owns the club and it’s not up for sale is beyond belief
They want people to believe that they are losing money, this way they have an excuse for not increasing payroll
If it continues through the next CBA i bet the owners will push a sell.
A thorough investigation of the Pirates finances showed that they are losing money and the owner is not making a profit.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
Quite unfortunate. He deserved better. Would be interesting to see him on a team that has the financial desire to put a competitive team on the field.
Shelton’s teams consistently beat Pythagorean expectations by 2–6 wins annually, despite a roster ranked among MLB’s bottom five in WAR (per FanGraphs) and payrolls under $80M (per Spotrac, vs. league average ~$150M).
2020: 19-41 (.317), RS: 219, RA: 298, Pythagorean expectation: ~.351 (21-39). Outperformed by ~2 losses.
2021: 61-101 (.376), RS: 609, RA: 829, Pythagorean expectation: ~.355 (57-105). Outperformed by ~4 wins.
2022: 62-100 (.383), RS: 591, RA: 817, Pythagorean expectation: ~.346 (56-106). Outperformed by ~6 wins.
2023: 76-86 (.469), RS: 692, RA: 790, Pythagorean expectation: ~.435 (70-92). Outperformed by ~6 wins.
2024: 76-86 (.469), RS: 665, RA: 742, Pythagorean expectation: ~.447 (72-90). Outperformed by ~4 wins.
In the station of sensation, a historian’s narration sparked a foundation of creation; the Dorian’s ovation met the nation’s vibration, while the Victorian’s temptation led to a celebration of the equation’s revelation. Amidst the rotation and translation, the foundation’s ovation echoed the citation’s elation, as the Gregorian’s narration unveiled the crustacean’s vacation, culminating in the Pythagorean’s expectation of the station’s foundation. I declare the Pythagorean expectation is very correct at that.
@Ally McBeal, pepperoni pizza, Ashton Kutcher.
I guess you don’t like data?
How was the prediction of losing 10 of their last 11 games, being shut out 7 games out of their first 36 and only scoring 14 runs in their last 11 games
@TheMan 3
When ownership doesn’t invest in the team, what do you expect? It seems he outperformed expectations and ownership didn’t like that fact and tossed him.
Pittsburgh is a historically bad market for baseball. The team is losing money and the owner is not making a profit.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
@RichardJarzynka
Why isn’t he moving the team to a more profitable location? If Pittsburgh doesn’t support the team, time to move elsewhere.
Good cost saving measure.
@Ally McBeal, pepperoni pizza, Ashton Kutcher.
What cost saving measure? They still have to pay him the rest of his contract.
So when does Paul Skenes press for a trade or when do the Pirates show mercy on Skenes and pretend to be ‘reloading’ with yet another group of prospects that will be worthless while with the Pirates and then flourish elsewhere in a few years?
AI GM
Multiple things can be true at once.
Was Shelton doomed no matter how good he was? Yes.
Was he any good? No.
Isn’t it the best when an organization lags in acquiring/developing top-notch players, and then the manager gets fired because he’s not turning that scrap metal into gold?
It’s even better when the manager didn’t care at all to try and turn that scrap metal into even silver to at least salvage any worth for his own career too.
Next fire cheech Marin the pitching coach..he has tinkered with skenes pitching.
Hopefully skenes flips him the bird and goes back to his old self
Please hire Cervelli next year
How is Ben not following him out the door? This org is only above the Rockies in how terribly they’re run
To be honest, I’m a bit surprised Shelton lasted as ln had he did and not at all surprised he is being made the fall guy for Nutting’s refusal to fund the supposed “urgency” in a complete team reset.
Let’s face it, Ben Cherington is no Billy Beane and is not going to magically pull a World Series contender out of his backside. Moreover, Moneyball only works if you have the financial backing to grab those high-value players to build your roster around.
The Pirates are an absolute mess and their fans deserve better than Bob Nutting is willing and able to deliver for them.
Ben Cherington can’t build a miracle team? What about the 2013 Red Sox?
Everyone’s else’s fault except the Manger.
The Manger? Are you commenting on the Vatican Conclave?
I commend Mr. Adams on his restraint with regards to Mr. Nutting’s restraint on opening his wallet. F-bombs would have been appopriate.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
Ozzie Guillen
I like Derek, but as the old saying goes “You’re the manager….manage!”
The Pirates are losing money and Bob Nutting is not making a profit.
Life in a historically bad market for baseball.
There are no billionaires who want to buy the team and keep it in the bad Pittsburgh. If Nutting does sell the team, it will be moved to another city as soon as the lease on PNC Park expires.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
Oh,the poor little billionaire! How much more does he need really? Fans get the shaft once again as prices keep going up! Fans should have a say,they are paying for everything!
IF the owner doesnt pony up and spend/acquire better talent; O’neil and Skenes will put in their time and leave when they hit FA
And then of course Bob has to throw his 2 cents in, that the team has to move with urgency.
Right. And that’s why you have the front office in a position during every off-season to spend $4-5 million on one year deals instead of chasing the multiple year commitments. Because of urgency.
Ben isn’t the one setting the budget.
Nothing is going to change until Nutting sells the team. They’re 12-26, yet somehow their performance on the field is only like the 5th worst thing about this season so far.
This is the same organization that has had some of the best players to play the game, universally revered. Roberto Clemente, Andrew McCutchen, and a personal favorite of mine was Jason Kendall. This fan base and city deserve so much better.
Hallelujah!
Another that bites the dust
Shelton was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken crap and did the best he could with a totally incomplete roster and that’s a real shame because they have had some very good players come through…this is a total failure by the front office and the fans deserve so much better.
HALLELUJAH
40 games in,shake things up! Need to make a couple trades for more offensive. Change chemistry some. Robert Louis would be nice for one,don’t stop there thou. 72 or early 70’s bucs were 9 out at break and came back! Of course they had a ton of hitting.