The Red Sox announced this afternoon that they’ve placed infielder Romy Gonzalez on a the 10-day injured list due to a left quad contusion. Infielder Nick Sogard was recalled from Triple-A to replace Gonzalez on the active roster.
The loss of Gonzalez is particularly devastating for Boston given that he’s been filling in for Triston Casas at first base after the latter underwent season-ending knee surgery. The 28-year-old has hit quite well in that fill-in capacity, slashing .308/.362/.423 in 17 games for the Red Sox this year. Gonzalez had been handling first base as part of a tandem with Abraham Toro in Casas’s absence, in part due to the refusal of Rafael Devers to play first base. That refusal and Devers’s subsequent comments expressing frustration with chief baseball officer Craig Breslow for bringing up the possibility of a move to first base after Devers had already been moved from third base to DH this spring has ignited plenty of public scrutiny that eventually led to a meeting between Devers and club owner John Henry.
It still seems as though there’s no plans to have Devers begin taking grounders at first, much less play the position in a game. As noted by MassLive’s Chris Cotillo, manager Alex Cora commented on the first base situation with reporters earlier today.
“He’s DHing today… We’ll keep talking about stuff. We’ll keep looking for alternatives, with what we need to do to keep getting better,” Cora said of Devers, as relayed by Cotillo. “Of course, we’ve got Romy, we’ve got Toro and now we’ve got (Sogard). That’s the route we’re going to have right now.”
While Cora name-checked Gonzalez as an option at first, he’ll be unavailable for at least the next ten days. That leaves Toro and Sogard as the most likely options to handle first in the meantime. Outfielder Rob Refsnyder has some first base experience and could be another option, but Cora has expressed hesitance about taking him out of the outfield mix in the past and Cotillo relays that the veteran is currently dealing with back spasms that leave his status as day-to-day.
The combination of Toro and Sogard at first base isn’t exactly an inspiring one. Toro is a career .219/.283/.350 hitter in the majors who has gone just 2-for-14 with two strikeouts and zero walks or extra base hits at the big league level to this point in the year. Sogard, meanwhile, got his only big league action last year when the Red Sox leaned on him as a utility man in 31 games. During that brief look in the majors, Sogard hit a below-average .273/.326/.325 with a 29.1% strikeout rate. Gonzalez’s eventual return should help matters, and fortunately the nature of his injury does not seem severe enough that an extended absence should be expected.
Even so, one must assume that the Red Sox are looking at other options given the worrisome state of first base. If Devers is still not an option to get work in at first base, perhaps the team will be able to swing a minor trade to add a depth option like DJ Stewart, Dominic Smith, or Joey Meneses who’s not currently on a 40-man roster. None of those names would be especially impactful, but the fact that major trades at this point in the calendar tend to be exceedingly rare figures to limit Boston’s external options.
The 1B drama continues at Boston. The front office should have talked to Devers about this way before Casas got injured, as a possibility to spot him on days off or if he was a little banged up. The Boston media too, knew that Devers would react like this and have enjoyed the drama…
Why? They are not required to talk to him beforehand. Other teams don’t. They have a need. They tell the player where he will be playing. That is the way it works. Any fault for drama is not on the media or the Boston FO, it’s all on Devers and only on Devers.
The team said your not playing the field and now two months later they want him to play the field.
Maybe they should have had him taking reps at 1B and 3B while mainly focusing on DH.
But hey, I’ve said since the beginning that Devers being a full-time DH is foolish and I hate to say I told ya so but …
What does that matter? Devers doesn’t have a choice. Henry, Kennedy, and Beslow flew to KC and told him exactly that. In essence they came to say, “Shut up, play where we tell you, or we will put you on the restricted list and you will get paid nothing. You do not get to refuse to play no matter where we tell you to play.”
If you think Devers being a full time DH is stupid, you have clued us all into your complete lack of knowledge of baseball. He is the worst defensive 3B in the game. His WAR would have been better the last 4 seasons playing DH than playing 3B, so he would have provided value more towards the team winning games by being a DH. His range is the biggest problem, so moving to 1B is not going to solve most of his defensive woes. But he IS better than Sogard or Toro overall at 1B even with subpar defense, so he needs to suck it up and do what is best for the team.
He didn’t take reps at any position because his shoulders were both injured. He didn’t even take at bats in spring training until mid-March because his shoulders were injured. The Red Sox attributed his struggles at the plate early in the regular season to the fact that, wait for it, his shoulders were both injured. If you actually paid attention instead of just running your gums or fingers in this case, you would already know that.
What is guaranteed to be foolish is any comment you make.
There was a verbal commitment made to him prior to signing the extension. Cora has publically acknowledged it.
If the Red Sox place him on the restricted list, the MLBPA files a grievance so quickly and would win. The Sox have no leverage here.
Devers being a full-time DH only is dumb because he is SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable if he can play 3B (and potentially 1B) even in a pinch. It would also have completely avoided the situation we are in now. So looks like you “clued us all into your complete lack of knowledge of baseball”.
And you have no idea how war works. His poor defense does not overcome the MASSIVE positional penalty that is applied to a DH. Come on man, if you want to insult people you can’t be that sloppy.
What’s more valuable, a guy who can only play DH, or a guy who can play 1B and 3B poorly and have the same hit tool?
Hm…. I wonder
Management nor ownership nor the league can treat a player like that, Devers is going to get his money.
You signed Devers to the long term deal, its your job to keep him happy while you are paying him for his services.
The manager can tell Devers he is starting at first base but why would you run a guy out there who doesnt want to play the position? You’re trying to win ballgames.
You have a 30M / yr. DH for eight more seasons, deal with it and manage your roster (GM) and your team accordingly (Cora).
Devers did not create this problem.
I prefer keeping Devers at DH as I think it will keep his shoulders healthy.
Devers absolutely has a choice. He can refuse to play 1B, and if the Red Sox attempt to force it via the restricted list, he’s going straight to the MLBPA over a violation of a verbal agreement that led to him to sign a major team-friendly extension.
While we can certainly say it’s bad sportsmanship to not “suck it up and play 1B’, Devers has no experience at the position (he’s only ever played 3B professionally), so we can’t argue that he’d be better defensively than Sogard or Toro at the position, nor can anyone really prove that would be the cast.
Alongside this, going by FanGraphs WAR and assuming my math is right, if Devers performed exactly the same from his debut until the end of 2024 but as a DH instead of 3B, he’d have accrued roughly 43% less fWAR, solely from being a prime-time DH.
We can probably agree that this doesn’t likely change anything for the Red Sox significantly, as they could’ve just gotten someone else to man the hot corner; if we really want to talk about win impacts, the Sox could’ve gotten someone to fill the offensive gap that occurred during most of Dever’s major league career at 2B.
Now, going onto the claim that Devers at 1B would significantly impact anything WAR-wise. I would guess that he’d field similar to Jose Abreu at first, so if we plug in Jose’s fielding stats from 2017 to 2024, adjusting for games played, we get about 33% less WAR than what he got at 3B.
So we’re talking about a difference of 10.8 WAR (1.35/y) at DH versus 8.5 (1.06/y) at 1B. That’s a win or two less a season assuming the Red Sox do absolutely nothing else besides shift some people around and that these people perform the exact same way they would need to in order to maintain their own WAR.
This is, entirely, the front office’s fault. If their backup plan to man first was to ask/tell the guy they promised prior to the Bregman deal that they wouldn’t ask him to man the field, that’s on them. If their backup plan for Casas going down was to field a platoon so bad I’d expect the White Sox to do it, that’s on them.
Devers has no choice. If he refuses to play at the position that the team assigns him, they can immediately put him on the restricted list.
He can cry to the MLBPA all he wants, but the Uniform Player Contract spells out clearly that he cannot refuse to play where the team tells him to play.
That you are arguing the point but have obviously never even READ the UPC says it all.
Since 2000, 141 players have moved to 1B having never played a game there professionally. Are you saying Devers is so inept that he is the only one incapable of doing so? That I might agree with, but it doesn’t change the fact that if Cora puts him on the lineup card at 1B he cannot refuse to play there if he wants a paycheck.
The rest of your comment is so nonsensical that it doesn’t even deserve an answer. Pull your head out.
@Web, I really doubt that is how the conversation went. They might have said something about keeping it in the clubhouse, though? And supporting the team effort?
Devers deal is not team friendly, nor was it at the time he signed.
It was an overpay.
And there is no verbal component to it. He had an agent. They negotiated. What mattered to him he had the opportunity to have it made so it was written down, he and his agent read it, they signed it. End of story.
Did any of those 141 players have their team tell them that their defense was so bad that they’d never play the field again, or was this a unique situation because the Red Sox handled it in the worst way possible.
The verbal commitment to Devers absolutely carries weight here. And Breslow doesn’t tell players where they play, that’s literally Cora’s job. Cora has said this entire time that Devers isn’t the answer at 1B.
Breslow needs to get on the same page as Cora before reaching out to the players.
The team could have had Devers taking reps at 1B/3B to prepare for this exact situation. That would have been the smart thing to do. Hopefully they learn from this situation.
Agreed that he should have been taking reps at 1B.
BS. That is exactly how the conversation went, and Beslow’s comments confirmed it. They laid down the law to Devers.
Maybe you are right? I just doubt it. The Red Sox aren’t going to let this advance to a grievance, even if they think they could win it. Just my opinion.
There is no possibility of a grievance. Devers has no standing for one. It’s in his contract. He plays where they tell him to play, or he can be put on the Restricted List with no recourse on his part.
There is no coincidence in the fact that he has been taking If practice and that he has also hit better since than conversation. When your career and paycheck is on the line you tend to buckle down, do what is expected of you, and focus on the job at hand.
Websoulsurfer,
True, but considering how he’s had communication issues, a simple meeting in the offseason would have avoided the little gotcha moments the media is feasting on. But yes, he’s getting paid, he’s not working on getting his bag, and needs to be a team player too.
He. Doesn’t. Have. A Choice.
the team is under no obligation to tell him in spring training that he might be playing 1B. Their obligation is to do what will give the team the best chance of winning. BOTH of Devers were injured and he didn’t even take at bats until mid-March, let alone play a position. Add to that the fact that his defense is so bad at 3B that every game he played there hurt the team’s chance to win.
Thos “gotcha moments” are 100% and only on Devers. He has an agent and a translator. He knows better. He has chosen to be the worst kind of teammate. He has chosen to come across exactly like a petulant child. Again, he has chosen to make those comments.
If they are under an obligation to do what’s best for winning or for the team then getting Devers prepped to play a position he has never done before is in the teams best interests. Devers isn’t without fault but the team bares the significant amount of blame for this situation.
I was trying to give him a little credit, but yeah he’s going to have to play or not get paid. Me personally? If I’m getting paid 31m a year over 10 years, I will juggle balls on top of the dugout if the front office asks me to haha!
In a Wally The Green Monster suit?
He certainly has a choice. Boston can put him on the restricted list but it doesn’t exactly make the team better to , especially since they’re only playing .500 ball. Such a move would also hurt Devers’ trade value. Devers has leverage as Boston needs bats and it’s not really ideal for them to trade him for pennies on the dollar.
Both parties have played a serious role in Effing up this situation.
Team bears none of the responsibility. That all falls on Devers. Henry flew to KC to call him on the carpet because of it. Devers needs to shut up and play ball wherever Breslow and Cora think he can help the team win.
There are players waiting in the wings including the best prospect in baseball.
Getting a cancer like Devers out of the clubhouse makes the team better nearly 100% of the time.
John Henry is that you? Team talking points hook line and sinker
Or juggle balls while smoking what you got, that’ll get you to the hall one day and have an SI cover and bobblehead to prove it!
The John Henry stans are out in force
If they force him to place first base don’t be surprised if he quickly has an oblique injury. Maybe he decides after a month on the IL and the Red Sox sinking in the standings that they will listen to him.
He can’t fake an injury. An MRI that rules out that oblique injury and he is on the restricted list. He doesn’t get to pout his way out of playing where the team wants him to or faking an injury to get out of playing there.
The more I see this played out the more I think Devers just doesn’t want to embarrass himself in the field. Perhaps watching an average+ fielder like Bregman gives him a clearer picture just how much of a liability he was in the field. I don’t blame him for not wanting to play 1b but the criticism is he’s not even willing to try to learn the position.
Stud – If the Red Sox wanted him as a backup for Casas, they would have allowed him to take reps at first base during ST and before regular season games. The blame should be 100% on management.
Raffy wanted to make his point, and he has. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up learning first base, although it may not be this season.
The only point he’s made is he’s not going to do anything he doesn’t want to. If the team is willing to put up with whatever deficiencies comes with him at 1b then the only reason he continues to resist is his ego. If he’s holding a resentment from the Bregman signing and choosing to bring that into the equation now that’s on him.
Stud – Do you have amnesia? LOL!
He didn’t want to be a DH, but he agreed to it and has finally adjusted to it.
He has never not done anything he didn’t want to do, until now.
How quickly we forget.
He didn’t have much of a choice. Not playing Campbell and putting Bregman at 2b wasn’t going to happen. He has a choice now. Perhaps he’s waiting out Yoshida. “Better you than me”
Stud – Devers could have demanded a trade after his 3B job was pulled out from under him, but he didn’t.
He certainly wouldn’t be the first to demand a trade from the Red Sox, with Manny Ramirez in 2008 coming to mind.
Wtf are you talking about? He has zero contractual leverage to demand a trade. He could just get a 1b mitt and start taking grounders but he’d probably be too embarrassed.
Stud – You have forgotten he has 250 million guaranteed reasons why all the leverage is his.
Try forcing him to play first base, and he could intentionally not play well or even hit well. We all saw how messed up he was the first week of the season.
It’s impossible to prove and considering all ELEVEN THOUSAND of his fielding innings have been at third base, the Sox wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
The people here who think it would be a good idea to try and force him to first base like a 12-year-old little leaguer are incredibly delusional and obviously know nothing about management.
He’s not being forced to do anything. He’s being asked to expand his defensive flexibility and simply put in a professional effort to learn the position. The standard expected of him is lower than his 3b defense. Delusional people believe feelings should override all professional decorum.
Stud – There are people here who are absolutely saying to force him to play first base.
Nobody is saying he should never try to learn first base.
Everyone is saying management has gone about it in an absurd and disrespectful manner. Why should Raffy pay the price for management’s incompetence???
What’s the price to pay for playing another position? I would suggest that attempting to fill a need would elicit respect from fans and the organization. What’s going on now is helping no one. I’m a bit surprised that you continue to value settling a score between him and the FO over at least attempting to help the team on the field.
Stud – What’s the price to pay? Seriously?
Let’s recap:
1) Blindsided by reporters at the start of ST because he was lied to all offseason about being the 3B this year.
2) Demonized by some “fans” and media for his immediate reaction to being blindsided
3) Told by his manager that he’s too incompetent to even fill in for Bregman on days off
4) Started the season in a horrible slump as he adjusted to fulltime DH
5) Got sucked right back into major drama after the Casas injury
6) Demonized for not wanting to speak with the media because he didn’t want to lie to them or fuel the fire
7) Demonized for finally speaking to the media because Cora reminded him it’s his responsibility to speak to them
8) Ownership and management flying to KC to meet with him for a farcical lecture about “being a good teammate”
Jesus, talk about tone deaf. Talk about lack of empathy.
Kick a sleeping Golden Retriever and then get mad at the dog for reacting with a growl, yeah that really makes sense.
Respect? First of all the only respect that matters to players is from fellow players. It’s a fraternity, a brotherhood in that clubhouse. And it’s been proven many times his teammates don’t give a damn about what he said in that interview, they all love him because they respect how hard he works and how he shows up for every game. They respect his 8-year MLB tenure, they respect his 2018 ring, and most of all they respect him playing in pain for 6 weeks last year because the team sucked at the time and needed him.
He started August with a .992 OPS and even though his shoulder injury got progressively worse and his numbers dropped because of it, he still played because he’s a TEAM player.
He could have easily sat on his .992 OPS and called it a season, but he didn’t. Now THAT is what earning respect is all about.
Too many people here are clueless because they don’t have the knowledge or the experience to understand. They point to his season-ending .871 OPS and say “not that great” without having a clue.
He’s not being demonized for anything. He’s being questioned about why he won’t pick up a glove and take some throws. His excuse to this point is I’m mad at the FO and don’t want to do them any favors. I can completely understand the tense relationship but it doesn’t mean he does not have a professional obligation. Just because someone refuses to coddle him as a victim doesn’t mean they are not asking legitimate questions about his decisions.
Stud – He’s not being demonized? So you’re not seeing him be called a “cancer”, diva, crybaby etc here and on social media?
He’s not being questioned why he said no, because he already explained why …. that’s what got him sucked into this latest drama, remember? LOL!
BTW – Here’s something interesting you probably didn’t know ….. in spring training Alex Speier asked Raffy what his reaction would be if the Sox were to ask him to learn first base. Ya know what? He did NOT say no, he did NOT say he would refuse …. he said he doesn’t like to speculate but he would have a conversation with management and consider it. This was BEFORE Cora told him to hang up his glove.
Why do you think he’s asking to be coddled? That sounds like demonizing, because all he’s doing is holding them accountable and insisting on them keep his word.
He’s teaching them how to behave in an appropriate manner, which will benefit not only him in the future but ALL of the players.
I don’t think he’s asking to be coddled nor am I looking at the situation via social media fan opinions. I think he doesn’t want to be embarrassed at 1b, which is understandable. I also think the team gave him assurances that put them into a corner. However, injuries change the calculus and the team as a whole needs to adjust. If your not willing to make an effort to help because you just do not “want to” then that’s going to come with a lot of criticism regardless of whether or not you had part in creating it, which I believe he did not.
Stud – That’s a valid point about not wanting to be embarrassed.
Red Sox management has a history of half-assing things, and they are obviously in a panic now with the Casas injury and literally nobody with much first base experience available to step in.
So again it falls back to Raffy shouldn’t be put in a spot where he will be rushed into a position that he never was even allowed to practice. He shouldn’t pay the price for incompetent management.
I remember many years ago at my job the boss decided to hire someone else for a higher position instead of promoting me, even though that person was less qualified and not dependable. It was a horrible decision, and as a result the new hire performed poorly and quit with no notice. So then my boss panicked and threw me into the position with no formal training and little time for learning. He expected me to work 12-hour days and weekends to get the job done. I told him to screw off. It’s the same situation as Raffy,holding management accountable for their poor decisions.
It’s absolutely mindblowing that Cora hasn’t gotten more criticism for refusing to allow Raffy to play first base in the WBC, refusing to allow him to take reps at first base prior to this year, and refusing to have an experienced backup first baseman in the organization.
I agree the negativity towards Devers is too much. I understand that they have a situation where they need a 1st baseman and Devers seems like a good option. This doesn’t mean he needs to be called a cancer on the team when he shows frustration for being misled multiple times. At the moment they need his offense as much as anything, so all this drama seems very unnecessary. I hope he does give 1st base a try, but management needed to handle this better and he needs to be given an opportunity to ease into it not get thrown to the wolves.
Fever, if we believe devers, before ST he told them he would not move to 1b.
Neither you nor I know if anyone asked devers to take 1b reps. All we know is he pouted and insisted he would play 3B, and, he did not participate in normal ST games or exercises.
They don’t need Devers’ “permission”. Let the namby-pamby cry and moan all he wants this year, then trade him to whichever pigeon wants to deal with him.
I disagree. For the money he makes, he should do what the team asks him to do. At least try it. He’s making the drama.
We shouldn’t pander to the players. They’re paid big money
Anthony Rizzo on line number one
Its going to be Bregman or Story at first and Mayer at SS.
Great idea… Let’s pay $40 million for a Gold Glove 3B so he can learn a new position. Bregman is not moving to 1B.
Nor should he, although I doubt he’d cry about it and would probably be an excellent first baseman.
New – While I obviously agree with you, let’s not forget Cora insisted Bregman could be the everyday second baseman … despite playing all of 32 innings at 2B in his entire professional career.
Of course Cora was lying as usual, nevertheless the idea was still asinine.
let – Let’s be real here, Bregman is playing for a mega-contract ….. he would never agree to playing first base fulltime and ultimately being devalued in a contract year, no matter how much he lies about his willingness.
Mayer is going to be at SS. Story can play first, Bregman can stay at 3rd. It’s not that big of a difference. Bregman would be the better first baseman.
No…
Doug Mienkewicz on line 2.
Fan – Perhaps you’re not aware, he was persona non grata at Fenway after insisting on keeping the 2004 final out ball.
He got death threats, and the Red Sox sued him.
Not sure if his relationship is fully mended with the organization, but he did attend last year’s reunion.
Yes I am a fountain of knowledge. LOL!
Time for Devers to pick up a first base mitt and start taking If practice. Again, he has no choice. As with DH, he can’t refuse to play there if he wants to get paid.
Devers “come to Jesus” meeting with Henry, Kennedy, and Beslow was to tell him exactly that. Shut up and play ball where we tell you to play or enjoy sitting on the restricted list not getting paid all those millions you signed for.
Buddy, are you unfamiliar with one Anthony Rendon? Piss off Devers enough, oops rolled my ankle at 1st base…must be out for the season. Repeat next spring training, then repeat in Apr 2027 etc. Or maybe youve heard of Steven Strausburg, 35M a year for 7 years and the Nats got like 5 starts. That contract is guaranteed…once players sign them, they have all the leverage. It’s the teams job to keep the player happy so they try to live up to the contract.
I thought I had seen completely stupid comments on the subject and then you come topping them all.
He has no leverage. He can’t fake an injury. There are these people called doctors. If he refuses to play 1B, he goes on the restricted list and guess what, he doesn’t get paid.
Why would you as a manager of a team that spends 250M annually on salaries to win baseball games put a guy out at first base who tells you that he is not happy at the position?
Every game counts in MLB, in September, the difference between a wild card and missing the playoffs is often a few games.
You are correct, Cora could say to Devers, “your starting at first” – could have a well oiled first basemans glove conditioned for him, and could run him out there everyday if thats what Cora wanted to do as the teams manager.
However, it would be Devers choice as to how he plays the game
Devers has all the leverage in that regard. How he prepares for the games, how he swings the bat, how he fields the ball, how focused he is. You don’t want unhappy players taking the field. You dont want them taking at bats.
Ownership could bench Devers, take the game away from him, and pay a 30M dollar popcorn popper, but that is bad business, that isn’t winning business.
Ownership and management screwed this up, not Devers. They need to trade him at this point. And they might have to send out prospects to do so.
The Red Sox were in such a good position with this rebuild, the Devers situation is a real mess.
It makes more sense to bench Devers than send out money plus prospects just to send him somewhere to be happy.
If it gets to being *that* broken of a relationship, it’s up to Devers how he wants to go down in history as
Web has it right. It doesn’t matter if he wouldn’t be happy playing 1B. If he refuses then he needs to go on the restricted list and call up someone who will play wherever he is needed.
Not benched because then he it’s getting paid. Restricted list.
If you read the UPC you will see that what Devers has said now twice about refusing to play another position is already enough fire the Red Sox to place him on the restricted list. They have exercised extreme restraint with his childish outbursts. I don’t think he will get another chance to pull that garbage again.
I disagree, you’d have a cancer on the bench for eight seasons. Cant win dragging a heavy anchor.
He wouldn’t be on the bench. He would be sitting at home in the DR on the restricted list. Costing the team no money.
The entire reason the owner, CEO, and POBO all flew to KC was to tell Devers in no uncertain terms that he will play wherever the bleep they tell him to play. To shut up and go help the team win games. If he tries that tack again, you are absolutely correct in that they are within their rights to place him on the restricted list.
BW, they wouldn’t be paying him on the restricted list. He would get paid nothing.
Devers screwed this up. Professionals don’t refuse to play where they are told to play. They go out there and do their best to help the team win. Devers has now twice refused to play another position. Imagine being stupid enough to think that it was the owner and management’s fault that Devers is a petulant child.
“Nick Sogard” is a weird way to spell Roman Anthony?
Could he be much worse than devers would be?
dam – Yes.
Trade Devers for Schwarber and a prospect put Schwarber on first at least we still have a bat. Schwarber only has one year left, Devers ain’t happy, seems like a reasonable fix
you arent getting schwarber and a prospect – youd be lucky if you could move off Devers contract at all, it’s approaching negetative value at this point, and not because Devers can’t play, because teams know they can leverage the Red Sox in a trade.
Dombrowski isn’t trading Schwarber for Devers alone, much less adding a prospect.
Hank – You’re right, Dave would have to get out from under a comparable amount of money he’d be taking on … Trea would be the most logical for both parties.
Papelbon wouldn’t put up with Harper.
Harper to 1B. Altuve to LF. Bellinger to 1B. Trout to RF. Tatis Jr to LF. Puljos to 1B. Miggy to 3B than to 1B. Papi to DH. Ernie Banks to 1B. Jim Thome to 1B then to DH. Pete Rose to OF than to 3B than to 1B…Rose played 500 games at 5 positions.
I could name 20 more stud players before doing a google search. Devers is just young and sensitive, he’ll come around.
Weird how none of those guys had the team tell them that they should hang up their glove, that they’re not playing defense that year, and then in a few short months backtracking on that.
Maybe instead of telling Devers to hang up his glove, they could have had him taking reps to prepare incase of injury at 1B or 3B.
But hey what do I know, I just said the entire time that Devers as a full-time DH was a dumb idea. I hate to say I told you so but… Yeah.
We don’t know if Devers was told to hang up his glove, because only he has said that. No one else in the organization has.
He didn’t take reps at any position because his shoulders were both injured. He didn’t even take at bats in spring training until mid-March because his shoulders were injured. The Red Sox attributed his struggles at the plate early in the regular season to the fact that, wait for it… his shoulders were both injured. Pay attention. Maybe every comment you make won’t look totally ignorant if you do.
so your solution is put a below average defender who’s never played the position coming off wait for it, bilateral shoulder injurers to grab a 1B glove and suddenly be good at it? that sounds pretty ignorant.
Web – when Devers said the original statement about the promise to be the long term 3B, Cora publically acknowledged it. I would tend to believe him here because he told the truth there.
and during spring training he probably didn’t take reps there because, you guessed it, the team has decided that he was no longer going to play the field. Wow it’s amazing how it all comes together huh. Thanks for proving that point.
fish/fletcher: not anybody can and I don’t want to have to figure out if Devers can or can’t in the middle of a season.
Joemo, Cora did no such thing. Cut the crap.
acell10
so your solution is put a below average defender who’s never played the position
=================
If this was the off-season, I’d be leery about moving Devers to 1st. But this could be a complete disaster trying to teach him the nuances of 1B in real time. The solution is a trade.
Fish-The RS have tried 4-5 guys prior to Casas that absolutely couldn’t play 1B whatsoever. Whether to go after a GB to his right, trying to throw to 2nd while not hitting the runner, preparing to receive throws, knowing when to com off the bag for a bad throw. There are things he has to learn, and he is not exactly an athlete to start with.
Joe: I don’t think pushing Devers out the door or trying to trade him is a viable solution either. See how the season plays out then make a decision. let things cool off again for now and reassess in the offseason.
Joe – Again, Pete Rose played 500 games at 5 positions and he started All Star games at 5 different positions.
Great players want to show they are great, they face challenges head on. If Devers was mad about being told to hang up his glove, he now has a chance to put it back on at a less complicated position.
Devers is young and sensitive, but he likely comes around. He already has the contract that is fully guaranteed, and he already has the reputation of being a bad 3B thrower regardless of how he handles 1B. There is nothing but upside potential in him moving to 1B. He needs an ego death and greatness awaits on the other side.
You think Pete rose would have dealt with his team treating him like the Sox have treated Devers? That’s quite bold.
And Devers wanted to show how great he is. The team told him no. He won’t get the chance to.
So now they can clean up their mess.
It’s a shame Pete didn’t know the definition of the word statutory.
Pete Rose also had no trouble penciling himself into the lineup years after he was a productive player. But I wouldn’t go looking to Pete Rose as a scion of selflessness for a lot of other reasons, too.
Joemo – Pete was the 2B All Star starter in 1965 and he moved to LF in 1967 at age 26 for a rotational door of 2B.
He was an All Star in LF in 1967 and then moved to RF in 1968 where he was an All Star. In ’69, at age 28 and already a 3x All Star at 3 positions, he split time in CF and RF….again was an All Star.
’72 to ’74 = CF, 2x All Star, ages 31-33
’75 to ’78 = 3B, 4x All Star, ages 34-37
’79 to ’86 = 1B, 5x All Star, ages 38-46
I think it’s fair to say age 28 Rose was a far superior player to age 28 Devers and he had no issue moving to new positions for the team. Rose was on the record as willing to move for other players and/or for the teams defensive needs.
Mule – Yes, and Devers thinking he will play 3B that whole contract is equal to Pete playing 1B in his early to mid 40s.
My point is a nuanced one about team needed positional moves by a player who was a multi time All Star on the field. Devers is moving postions at age 28 as a 3x All Star at 3B. At 28, Rose was a 3x All Star at 3 different positions and would go to move positions 4 more times.
Devers showed the Red Sox how great he is at 3B which, is why they had to shell out $40 million to get Bregman.
Wrong question joemo. The right one is: Would any team have put up with a player twice saying they would refuse to move position for the good of the team?
The mess IS Devers. He crapped the bed. Now he gets to live in it. Open his mouth one more time and he will be sitting on the restricted list earning no money. Henry and Kennedy made that crystal clear when they flew into KC to read him the riot act.
But Rose was much more athletic than Devers. Devers would never be asked to move to any other position than third, with the possible exception of first base.
Hank – Exactly! Nobody has ever considered Devers athletic like Story, Bregman, Rafaela, Mookie. The difference in body type should be a dead giveaway.
The only one to say anything about hanging up a glove was Devers, who qualified it by saying ‘they basically told me’…
GA – remember when Devers said something else the team said, and it sounded crazy but turned out to be true? I believe him right now because of that.
Joe – not being obtuse or difficult, I just don’t get the reference right now – which other thing are you thinking of?
GaSox – Cora flat out repeated multiple times “He’s my DH, he will not play the field … not even when Bregman needs a day off.”
And as further proof, he didn’t play 3B in ST.
It’s like a son telling his elderly dad he’s not gonna drive anymore, are you really gonna argue with the dad for saying they took away his keys?
Or a wife telling her husband he’s not gonna golf anymore, would he be wrong to say he was told to put away his clubs? LOL!!!
You can also include Aaron Judge and Mookie Betts on that list of top-tier players who have moved multiple times to benefit team needs…..
3B to 1B:
Jim Thome
Paul Molitor
George Brett
Chipper Jones
Freddie Freeman
Miguel Cabrera
Albert Pujols
Carlos Santana
Edwin Encarnación
Kevin Youkilis
Chris Davis
Vladdy
Don Mattingly LF to 1B also….
Probably 50% of major league players were shortstops.
And Chipper went to left field for a while, too. Even though he would have preferred to remain at third base, and wasn’t crazy about playing the outfield.
Mike Schmidt
YBC – How many of those players were blindsided by being moved directly from 3B to DH in their 20’s after being assured all off-season they would remain at 3B? And how many of them had played over 11,000 innings in the field – all at third base?
You’re missing the picture my friend.
Most of us know the natural progression for a bad or declining 3B is to a DH platoon or a move to 1B (fulltime or platoon).
Never has a 3B-only 11-year professional moved directly to DH in his 20s.
Put Story over there and call up Mayer. If Devers can play first, Story sure AF can.
Move Cambell to 1b! He already plays like one, just let him hit and he’ll be fine. And then call up Mayer or Anthony (w/ Rafaela at 2b)
That works too.
Why would you move bregman off 3b where he just won a gg to put mayer and campbell..both very young rookies to positions they have never played? ..and platoon abreau? He won a gg in rf last year defensively this alignment makes no sense
Based on stats i could find campbell seems league avg or a little better compared to.all current mlb 2b
Come on dude pay better attention campbell is not slow..explain 24 sb last year??
Im not your bro champ.do you need glasses?
.you missed abreau playing againt a lefty..like right now lol
Your eyeballs are lying to you. Campbell is league average by both OAA and DRS.
I’ll trust the numbers over his eyeballs.
Really good take! Would love to see them try this. I heard something about waiting on Mayer and Anthony until something to do with service time but this would be a good solve!
Damn… Gonzalez has been playing well too. Should be back in 10 days with only a contusion.
Romy’s a great guy to have on a roster, but not as an everyday first baseman. He has no power and probably won’t hit higher than .235.
Breath of fresh air-not having to listen to OB this weekend in KC🥳
Entitlement thy name in Rafael Devers. Looks like uncle Leo playing third.
Yaz went from LF to first. He won a triple crown. Devers could not carry his glove.
It’s Karma for all the negative spin they’ve put on players and managers once they’ve left.
YAZ was in left field when he won the triple crown.
Ok dude..im literally watching abreau play against one if the toughest lefties in mlb right now..care to rethink that one sure doesnt look like a platoon tonight huh? Bregman hasnt played ss since college..hes now over 30 and a natural 3b .you clearly dont know what you are talking about
I thought the same thing. Plus Cora left him in vs a LH out of the bullpen the other night and Abreu hit one off the fence.
I have a hard time buying, regardless of whether I think Devers is wrong, that he “must” play 1B. I’d imagine there’s some language in the CBA or some precedent to guide, but “must” is a very broad term. I think we’d all agree that Boston would likely not have the right to make him catch or pitch, or play shortstop. Let’s put aside whether he should, for the good of the team, etc. “Must’ he, or risk being on the Restricted list?
I think it comes down to his contract provisions and where he has the skills to reasonably perform.
Its in the Uniform Players Contract, which you can find in the CBA on the MLBPA website, that a player cannot refuse to play at any position the team assigns them to play.
So if Cora puts Devers in the lineup at 1B, he must play there. If he refuses, the team can place him on the restricted list and while on the restricted list he will not get paid.
Call up Vaughn Grissom to play first base
I came here to read thoughtful spirited dialogue. SMH. You guys just want to destroy each other. SMH.
Major – You nailed it.
Facts don’t matter.
Knowledge about the background doesn’t matter.
Context doesn’t matter.
Sources don’t matter.
Direct quotes don’t matter.
It’s “pick a side and refuse to acknowledge when the other side has a valid point”.
I know some of it is an age thing, but for most it’s purely player-hate driven.
What especially pisses me off is when you prove you’re right, and the other person doesn’t have the common decency to acknowledge they were wrong. They just go silent like cowards.
Lots of better options at 1B than Sogard and Toro, and without putting Devers there (an idea I initially thought made sense but I’ve since grown to dislike). I’d probably put Grissom there, but moving Story to 1B (or 2nd, if Campbell can really play first) and bringing up Mayer at SS makes the most sense to me.
It seems likely that billionaire Henry flew to KC to try to solve this drama. His upper management team are complete failures. Breslow seems to be a liar and that appears to be his only attribute. Cora is a known cheater and all that title implies of lying, manipulation and denial. The Red Sox have stated any guarantees verbally given by anyone in authority who no longer is employed by Boston are valueless. Does any agent for any marque player ever want to rely on anything offered by the Red Sox?
Were there logical options available in an above-board manner to have avoided this situation? Sure there were several. The clueless blame the employee for the abject failures of management. Has anyone read what Breslow and Cora have said? They made this drama occur. Any owner would fire these 2 useless eaters and find someone with integrity. No owner wants to deal with being associated with a clown show operation..
If you read Breslow’s comments then you know that is not true. Henry, Kennedy, and Breslow flew to KC to call Devers on the carpet and read him the riot act. Straighten up, shut up, and play where we tell you to play or we are within our rights to put you on the restricted list and you will not get paid.
The abject failure was by Devers. He has no choice except to play wherever the team assigns him to play. Saying he would refuse to do so twice now is a violation of the contract he signed. All the fault here is on Devers and only on Devers.
Quit your moaning and complaining and go grab a 1B mitt Devers. You will be starting there maybe as soon as tomorrow.
If Justin Turner can bounce around from 3B to 1B and even 2B… Devers can glove up and play 1B.
Secondly, his agent has let this get way out of hand. Devers should not be answering these questions on his own. I love the kid, but there is a modicum of generality that needs to be maintained. Like in Bull Durham… “just here to help the team”…. stuff like that. The agent needs to be coaching Devers on this.
Finally, the baby faced assassin went 4-4 w a walk last night as the Sox finally beat an ace. Just keep hitting kid!
Jaren Duran came through the minors as a 2nd baseman. I’m ready to see what he can do at first base, and bring up Anthony for Left field. . Then if Story doesn’t turn it around soon, he can take Hamilton utility spot on the bench and get Mayer up to play short! If they are going to be a 500 team, they can just as well do that with the youngsters! Get them ready for next year!
I know that he is not a free agent, but a small deal with the Angels for Rudy Tellez may make sense. His BA is not great, but he has legit power. He was a Red Sox killer when he was with Toronto, especially at Fenway. Of course this just stop gap until Rafi gets his head screwed on correctly.
You talking about Rowdy? He’s a Mariner now, bro.
Red Sox should make the following trade immediately,
Boston sends Rafael Dever
To
Philadelphia for Alec Bohm and Ranger Suarez
While I don’t think its crazy to ask Devers to try 1B for the rest of the year, I also don’t think it makes sense to trade him. His bat is very productive and he’s finally figured out how to take a walk.
I get that his remaining contract is sizable, but Bohm and Suarez isn’t enough for Devers offensive abilities.
Time (and winning) heals all wounds, he’ll open up to 1B and this will be water under the bridge even if the media try’s to make it seem like it isn’t. The second he steps on the diamond at 1B the whole narrative around him changes and he turns into a modern version of Manny being Manny. Any error he commits will be overlooked, and everyone will say thank you for being selfless and trying. He’s already got the $300M contract so he isn’t needing to prove anything for FA.
That’s actually not a terrible trade proposal, like most that we see on here.
Well, right now Raffy is 6 for 7 in the last 2 days with 5 rbi. I say, “what else can we do or say to piss him off”?
spit – Did you see Raffy’s mammoth gamewinning homerun? 440 feet!!!
The guy is such a gifted hitter, I’d love to have heard him and Chapman talking about the famous homerun he hit off Chapman in Yankee Stadium his rookie year.
Here are the facts, he keeps raking like he has? Nobody telling him anything he doesnt want to hear. Most likely Henry said you better rake or you’re playing first. Well, he’s been raking. Move Mayer to First Base and he can rotate with the others and give story days off. First is not difficult for athletes.
It’s amusing to see so many that think they know how this works.
cdr – I agree they probably don’t want to upset the applecart right now, but there’s no way Henry or anyone else told him if he doesn’t rake he will be forced to play first base …. unless it was said tongue-in-cheek.
I meant it more like that, because we all know when you hit that pretty much trumps everything.
Fever,I wrote the comment right after watching his missile! I still say that Duran needs to start getting reps at first. He started as a 2nd baseman, he has size, and it would give an opening for Anthony.
spit – I like that idea with Duran if it helps the team overall.
It will be interesting if Campbell doesn’t pull out of his slump, he’s now 3-for-33 with zero walks and zero extra base hits. I’m sure he’ll be fine longterm, but it may take him a bit to adjust to MLB pitching.
Fever-I saw the Homer off Chapman live also! Knocked me off my chair!
spit – Yes that was one of my all-time Raffy moments!! I knew right then and there he was a special kid.
What a streak he’s on!!!! In his last 12 PA’s he has 7 hits and 4 walks, amazing!!!
Did you hear he was named AL Player of the Week.
This fantasy that the Red Sox brass is going to place Devers on the restricted list is just that a fantasy. The players union would push back so hard it wouldn’t be funny. He already has injured shoulders he has a built in excuse to not play if pushed. To be clear I’d like to see him step up and say hell yea I’ll play first but that didn’t happen. Who knows maybe he gets enough internal pressure to give it a go but it’s an easy argument for Devers and the players union that based on his shoulders he can only DH. The Red Sox won’t go there and place him on the restricted list for a couple of reasons they really want him to DH long term and the second they would lose and have to pay Devers anyway if they tried to put him on the restricted list.
Bruin – I totally agree, any type of “punishment” is beyond absurd and shows a lack of critical thinking.
Breslow is no longer talking about the subject, most believe he got a gag order from ownership.
Toro has really sucked so far, failed to cover first base by going for a ball that belonged to Campbell and then he let a grounder eat him up. Raffy would have easily handled both.
Giolito praised Raffy yesterday in support of him, and there is a huge tidal wave of criticism about how Sox management has conducted themselves. Rosenthal ripped them a new one, and even Fangraphs ripped the Red Sox front office.
blogs.fangraphs.com/the-red-sox-are-pulling-the-wr…
“The team seems to be doing its level best to alienate its biggest star, repeatedly saying one thing in public, and then another to Devers in private.
It started during the offseason, when the Red Sox began pursuing Alex Bregman. Throughout free agency, Bregman had been vocal about his openness to switching his position from third base to second, and the Red Sox were just as vocal that they’d prefer him at second. When asked during the Winter Meetings about rumors that Devers might be moved off third, manager Alex Cora said, “I don’t know where that comes from. I haven’t talked to Raffy about that. I have never talked to his agent about that. People talk about his defense. Actually, I thought last year, he did an outstanding job, especially to his left…. And I guarantee you we haven’t had those conversations.” Clearly, the last sentence was true, but there’s no universe in which Cora was unaware of how much Devers’ defense hurt the team last season. Maybe his willingness to say something so obviously untrue should have been a sign.
Cora doubled down on those comments just a few weeks later. “Rafael Devers is our third baseman,” he told NESN. “I always envisioned Alex as a Gold Glover second baseman.” Even when Bregman signed, the Red Sox indicated that he would play second base, as a source told ESPN’s Jeff Passan on the day the news of the deal broke. Then all hell broke loose. Two days after Bregman agreed to his three-year, $120 million contract, with opt outs after either of the first two seasons, Cora and chief baseball officer Craig Breslow did exactly what they’d been saying for months that they wouldn’t do. They asked Devers to move to designated hitter.
“A lot of people, not just Bloom, suggested Devers would be a long-term fixture at third base.” Cora was Boston’s manager at the time. He was one of those people. In fact, he made that same argument himself while fending off the position-switching rumors during the Winter Meetings. He told reporters, “When you sign a contract like that, he signed as a third baseman and he wants to be a third baseman, right?” The team made Devers a promise and the team broke it.
As news of Devers’ comments swirled, Breslow told reporters, “These things tend to have a way of working themselves out.” He was right. Devers agreed to the move within a few days and has continued to be one of the best hitters in baseball. The team was certainly within its rights to ask Devers to move, even to demand it, but it’s not particularly difficult to think of better ways to handle the situation. According to Cora, Devers urged ownership to go out and sign reinforcements just last summer. He clearly cares about building a winning roster. The powers that be didn’t have to shout from the rooftops that his job was safe when they didn’t mean it. They could have kept him apprised or made him feel included in the decision-making process. They could have broached the possibility of a move earlier. Devers has been with the organization since 2013. Surely, someone knows him well enough to plan out a course of action that would have been less hurtful or less likely to result in public acrimony.
That acrimony set the scene for what’s going on now. The day after Triston Casas injured his left knee, Cora was asked whether the Red Sox would consider moving Devers to play first base. “From my end right now, no,” he said. To every follow-up question, he replied, “No.” He said, “We’re staying the course.” He said, “We made a decision. We talked to him. He’s a DH.” The next day, when Casas underwent surgery to repair his ruptured left patellar tendon, Boston announced that he would be out for the season. “I like Raffy as DH,” Cora said. “In my opinion, to throw something at him right now, it [would] be very unfair.” Would you like to guess what happened next?
There are legitimate baseball reasons to question the way the Red Sox handled all of this. Devers is a bad defender, but he’s also just 28 years old and he’s under contract for so very long. That’s awfully young to push a player off the only position he’s ever known and turn him into a DH, especially when he’s still one of the most valuable third basemen in the game. And why tell him to put away his glove? Wouldn’t he be the natural backup at third? Why not float the possibility of having him learn first base during spring training? Would giving him an opportunity to play defense some of the time — even at a new position — have made the move to DH more palatable? Had the team never considered the possibility that Casas might get hurt and miss time – you know, like he did in each of the last two seasons? What would the Red Sox have done if Bregman had been the one to get hurt? What were they planning to do if Bregman had a monster season (as is currently the case) and opted out of his contract this offseason? Would they have awkwardly asked Devers to return to third base less than a year after telling him he couldn’t hack it? Some of these questions must have reasonable answers, but it seems like some might not have been considered thoroughly.
Still, the communication issues are much more concerning. There are, no doubt, players who would have taken all of this in stride, who wouldn’t have aired their grievances with reporters, who would have volunteered to take on a new position. In fact, Alex Speier of the Boston Globe published a whole list of players who switched positions to help their team. That’s not a good look for Devers. But it’s hard to fault him for being upset that the team went back on its word. And if you fault a player for telling the truth to the public, you should take at least as much issue with the organization that misled both him and the public. After 12 years, the team must have known Devers well enough to expect him to take this personally. And after the dustup in February, taking essentially the same tack – deny it publicly, then spring a complete reversal on him privately – borders on absurdity. Imagine being Devers. You’re the face of the franchise, you’re continually reassured that your position is safe, and then, late in spring training, you’re told that none of it was actually true, that you’ll no longer get to play in the field, ever again. Then, two months later, when it’s expedient, you’re told that also wasn’t true.
Either the Red Sox didn’t see any of this coming, or they did see it coming and just didn’t think it was important enough to find a more sensitive way to handle the situation. Both possibilities are absolutely perplexing. “These things tend to have a way of working themselves out” may be true, but it’s not a great organizational philosophy. Baseball is a business, but surely someone in the organization should know that it’s a bad idea to alienate a player in whom so much of the team’s future is entrusted.”
“Meanwhile” has to start the sentence, not come in the middle between commas.