The Orioles dropped both games of a doubleheader against Minnesota yesterday, falling 11 games under .500. They kept the bad times rolling with another loss this afternoon, getting to 12 games under. It’s the nadir of their season so far, one from which they’ll have a difficult time coming back.
As of last week, general manager Mike Elias wasn’t interested in contemplating the possibility that they’ll be deadline sellers. “We’ve got a record that’s not reflective of who we believe our team is, that I don’t think anyone thought our team was, and we’re digging a hole out of the standings right now because of that,” the GM told Joel Sherman and Jon Heyman of The New York Post on their podcast last Tuesday. “Hopefully, we claw back a lot of real estate in the standings and we get back in the mode that we fully expected to be. That is my focus right now. If it somehow evolves otherwise, I’ll address it then.”
The team has dropped six of eight games since those comments. Even with Zach Eflin returning from the injured list over the weekend, the starting rotation looks untenable. Colton Cowser and Jordan Westburg face uncertain timelines to make it back from their own IL stints. The odds are very much not in their favor. FanGraphs has the O’s playoff chances down to a season-low 4.4%. The front office certainly didn’t anticipate being deadline sellers, but it’s increasingly difficult to see them avoiding that fate.
It would be surprising if the Orioles dealt any controllable core pieces like Westburg, Adley Rutschman or Jackson Holliday. It’d be tough to find a taker on Tyler O’Neill given his annual $16.5MM salaries and opt-out clause. Tomoyuki Sugano has had solid results in his first big league season, but he probably has modest trade value on a $13MM salary given his below-average velocity and 14.2% strikeout rate.
That leaves a pair of rental bats as Baltimore’s top trade candidates: Ryan O’Hearn and Cedric Mullins. The former has systematically improved over his two and a half seasons at Camden Yards. O’Hearn was a career .219/.293/.390 hitter when the Orioles acquired him from the Royals over the 2022-23 offseason. He turned in what was then a personal-best .289/.322/.480 slash during his first season in Baltimore. Last year’s batting line seems superficially like a step back — he hit .264/.334/.427 in 494 plate appearances — but it came with a dramatically superior strikeout and walk profile than he showed in 2023.
O’Hearn has maintained those impressive plate discipline metrics while hitting for more power early this year. He carries a .287/.374/.519 mark with seven longballs across 123 plate appearances. O’Hearn isn’t chasing pitches outside the strike zone. His 15.4% strikeout rate is well below the 22.1% league average. He’s making hard contact (a 95+ MPH exit velocity) on half his batted balls, well up from last season’s 40% clip.
The rate stats are slightly inflated by the O’s tendency to shield O’Hearn from unfavorable platoon matchups. They’ve mostly kept him away from left-handed pitching, giving him just 94 plate appearances against southpaws over the past three seasons. He’s more of a strong-side platoon bat than a true everyday player, but O’Hearn is thriving in that role. He is up to a .280/.339/.465 slash in nearly 900 plate appearances against righty pitching as a member of the Orioles.
That kind of production is a bargain for a player making an $8MM salary. O’Hearn will be a first-time free agent next year, as he enters his age-32 season. It’s tough to see the Orioles making him a qualifying offer that’d likely be north of $21MM. He has a good shot at a multi-year contract, but the O’s would probably be better served letting him walk to open first base/DH playing time for Coby Mayo. That all points to a trade.
Baltimore won’t pull the trigger on that kind of move two and a half months from the deadline, but he seems likely to be available in July. The Giants and Red Sox are the most obvious potential suitors for a rental first baseman. Boston will be without Triston Casas all season. San Francisco has gotten nothing out of LaMonte Wade Jr. this year. They won’t want to block top prospect Bryce Eldridge in 2026 but should make a short-term add at the position. The Rangers and Mariners would also make sense as landing spots.
The Orioles would need a stronger return on Mullins, who may end up being one of the best all-around position players available. The lefty-hitting center fielder takes a .230/.335/.446 line with eight homers into today’s game against Minnesota. Most of that production came early in the season. Mullins carried a .278/.412/.515 slash through the end of April. He’s hitting .119/.119/.286 thus far in May. He’s clearly amidst a skid at the plate, but he still ranks among the sport’s most productive center fielders overall. He is tied for fourth at the position in homers and ranks eighth in on-base percentage (minimum 100 plate appearances).
Even if Mullins was punching above his weight through the season’s first few weeks, he’s a quality player. He has been an average or better hitter in five consecutive seasons. He has topped 30 stolen bases in three of the last four years. The public metrics are split on his glove — he rates more highly by Statcast’s Outs Above Average than he does in the estimation of Defensive Runs Saved — but there’s no doubt that he can play center field. There’s a dearth of talent at the position on the trade market, especially if Luis Robert Jr. continues to underperform offensively.
Mullins is making $8.725MM in his final season of arbitration control. There’s a decent chance the O’s would make him the qualifying offer if he’s not traded, but a multiple-prospect package could be superior to one compensatory draft pick. The Guardians, Phillies, Mets, Rangers and A’s are just a handful of contenders that could look for an upgrade in center field.
Respective images courtesy of Mark J. Rebilas and Gregory Fisher, Imagn Images
Those look nice pieces for the right contending teams.
Already asking Orioles front office if they’ll be selling their rentals, maybe too soon?
Not when you look at who’s throwing the ball for my O’s. Elias screwed up the pitching and Hyde will pay with his job.
Hyde is a good rebuilding manager but not built for September and October
I hope he gets hired by a team like the Rockies but the orioles are better off with a new manager
As for Elias, he might be Chaim bloom where he knows how to draft but doesn’t know how to run a major league roster
O’s are 12 games under .500 and 9 GB in the East. I don’t think it is too soon to say that some serious changes need to be made.
Elias was the previous owner’s guy. He won’t survive going from 100 wins in 2024 to last in 2025. Especially not when the deficiencies on the team were obvious over the offseason.
They tried adding for what they lost. Hasn’t panned out. Morton has really struggled, and O’Neil hasn’t provided much value
That should save his job. /s
“Hey, I added a 40-year-old has been and a 35-year-old never has been from Japan at the last minute to replace Burnes, Bradish, and all the guys we knew would be out to start the season. Isn’t that enough?”
It didn’t save Brandon Hydes job which is the normal chain of command, Elias will loose his job next year if stuff doesn’t change
The firings usually take coaches first, then the GM. Just ask John Mozeliak who did more to get fired than anyone since the Chris archer trade in the offseason of 2020 and every offseaon since then sat on his hands. He gets to ride out his tenure and turn over the reigns to Bloom.
Mike Shildt
Jeff Albert
They got fired
On paper it looks too soon but as someone who watches them every game they don’t look competitive at all
Absolutely right – nothing to discuss until July. Except release Sanchez and Mateo
Elias has done so well with picks in the 30s to 40s range that he will value the comp pick way higher than most teams would. I think it will be hard to pry him off holding out for that pick.
That may all be true, and planning and building for the future is always important, but it’s also important to plan for the present. The O’s should be trying to win in the here and now. A couple comp picks in the upcoming draft won’t see the majors for 4 or 5 years.
The O’s should easily be able to trade these 2 pieces for returns that could be on the team next year. They still have all their own picks that can be turned into future players. O’Hearn and Mullins should really be turned into present day assets.
Canuckleball;
I wrote last offseason that Mullins would be traded by the deadline, and earlier in this season said that O’Hearn would go because Heston Kjerstad is a LH bat that plays corner OF, DH, and will soon take up 1B.
All this is orchestrated. The veteran players knew this was coming…..as did their agents…..as did everyone in MLB. They knew mid-2024 which is why they played .500 ball after having one of the 3 best records in MLB up to that point.
No big name FA pitcher was/is going to sign with them
for more than a few years not just because they’re a part of a never-ending rebuild, but also because pitchers get hurt at a disproportional rate working in that organization, and the defense behind them sucks.
As for the Mayo saga, I get a kick out of it……
The guy had 46 PA in 2024 with the O’s: 22 K’s, an .098 BA, and a -0.6 fWar. He complained when they sent him down in Spring Training saying he’d done all he needed to do in the minors. When they called him up to the majors this year he had 13 PA’s with 6 K’s, a .083 BA, and a -0.2 fWar. So they sent him back to AAA where he played one game at 3B and 4 at 1B. Now the stats since being sent back……
16 PA’s, 1 hit, 5 W’s, 11 K’s.
LOL
I know that doesn’t add up, but apparently Tidewater Box Scores as as correct as O’s player projections.
Even funnier: Most posters here think Mayo can be the key player in a trade to bring back an ace pitcher!
P.S.
As I wrote before, a few weeks ago I saw the owner go over to the area Cal Ripken, Jr. sits in with his wife during a game at Camden. For at least 15-20 minutes he was having a spirited discussion with Cal, his wife was on the other side of Cal and not a part of the discussion. Clearly he was asking question and Cal was answering.
That owner paid $1.725 billion for that franchise in March, 2023. He knew 2-3 weeks ago – as I and others knew for quite some time – that there was a major problem. I’d suggest that Mr. Rubenstein has already hired a baseball consulting firm to tell him just what he has. All this speculation on trades is nice. My guess is that no moves will be made without Mr. Rubenstein approving them.
You sound sick in the head
danumd87 2;
I’m dumbfounded by your detailed and rational response to my pointing out facts.
Do you have a recent degree from an American college?
You write like someone who likes to hear themself speak.
Hey base! Samuel is the greatest of all time. You sir, are in the company of a legendary poster.
Facts? Like, sucks, complained, etc. Those are opinions, not facts.
Ridiculous. Rubenstein bought the Os because of Elias. Carlyle stands out in the PE World under his leadership as a long term Buy and hold investor. He BUYS MANAGEMENT after researching it. He’s also a patient investor with a long term outlook.
The current generation of Os fans demands instant gratification. They’re whistling in the wind because they know nothing about Rubenstein, other than he’s NOT ANGELOS.
Live with it. The Orioles now, and for the foreseeable future will seek long term total value at the expense of short term results. So, yes, they’re going to be active sellers if they don’t turn it around in 2025 and the return they seek will be draft choices, younger prospects and other players that represent less 2025-26 value than 2027-29 value.
They won’t even get a comp pick. They wouldn’t offer either player a qualifying offer I. Fear that they would take it.
The O’s extended 2 qualifying offers just this offseason. Mullins will get one if he plays at his current overall stats level all year/
When does Hyde get fired? We need another scapegoat.
Brother at this point I’m surprised most of the coaching staff isnt on the way out. Though in their defense, the front office did literally nothing this off season, the only move that has panned out is Sugano. They misplaced their faith in thinking the team would avoid injuries and stay healthy until some of their other injured pitchers came back. Morton was supposed to at least provide enough to get to that point, obviously didn’t work, same thing for Gibson and that hasn’t worked yet either. Just complete mishandling of an off season where your staff ace walks and you don’t replace that production.
I was trying to say your 2nd sentence without saying it and filed utterly. lol.
Elias had a chance to improve that team and didn’t even try.
So many Orioles fans on here were saying Elias “knocked it out of the park”. Very delusional. Even with the team healthy, this team wasn’t going anywhere. Very frustrating how Elias has handled things
Elias served a purpose. Corrected a lot of internal issues, reactivated international scouting/signing, brought the Angelos out of the stone age, revolutionized the teams analytics, implemented efficiencies at multiple levels, rebuilt the farm, etc. But of he can’t adapt from a growing team to a contending one, it’s time to move on. Hyde, too. He’s as much a mouthpiece for the front office, anyway. They feed a lot of data down to him and many of his game choices are based on it.
Id love to see them bring back Buck, but he won’t work with a gm who meddles. Maybe it’s finally time to put Cal back in uniform and have him manage.
Something has to give. Literally no one hits for Hyde when it matters, and Elias isn’t providing Hyde the arms he needs to contend.
when everyone’s expected result occurs, you are wrong. the luster is gone Mike.
100% this. Elias rebuilt and restructured a terrible farm system and supplemented it with great analytical approach. But you’re right, he’s not willing to strike while the iron is hot so to speak, he’s literally only there to strike gold. And you can’t count on that happening nowadays with all of the injuries that can ruin a team.
Hyde in my opinion is at best a placeholder manager. He doesn’t particularly manage a game well, but he is willing to shake things up until he finds something that works. Too often do I see him sit a guy who at the time is raking just for the sake of a matchup. Which risks taking said guy out of a rhythm but also conversely creates an opportunity for another guy. To throw out an extremely cringey pun, his managerial style is very Jekyll and Hyde. I apologize, I’ll see myself out. Play me off keyboard cat!
Never liked Hyde.
Hyde had a good run there with Kelso and Fez. Then it got weird
Pads Fan — Hyde might already be fired if it weren’t for the fact the other managers are rookies/unproven. Last year it was Freddie Gonzalez as the Bench Coach…if he were still here, Hyde might not be at this point. Robinson Cherenos isn’t ready for that gig with only 6 weeks of being a coach.
I don’t think trading O’Hearn opens up a spot for Mayo, beyond the fact that there’d be an open roster spot. The guys truly blocking Mayo are other righty bats like Urias, Rivera, and Mountcastle.
The Orioles are loaded with lefty hitters. Swapping a lefty for a righty would be fine for them.
the orioles are almost done, game over for them, 0 playoff wins for orioles golden generation
We get it. You posted this same exact comment in the “Poll: American League Playoff Outlook” article.
0 playoff wins for orioles golden generation, pathetic.
I don’t think there is a question now – the Orioles are 2-7 so far in a 12 game stretch that was determining whether they were going to claw back in. They needed 8-4 in the stretch. That’s not happening. At 15-27, giving them to game 100 to get back to .500 is a monumental ask now especially with this rotation. No dominant team in the east, but a whole bunch of AL teams at or just above .500. They’re sellers in July.
Mullins is an above average but not world beating CF. Can’t hit lefties well. Not as bad as his May stats. His career averages are more representative of his overall body of work. He has declining range and not a too-powerful arm, though he’ll still chase down and make a highlight diving catch. Does he eventually go to the corner OF? He steals bases. He’s walking more this year. Certainly there’s a few contenders out there where Mullins is a significant upgrade.
O’Hearn is a nice bat to have and was an underrated find for the Orioles the past couple of years, can play RF, 1B, DH.
Parting with any controllable core piece mentioned in the article would be an absolute earth shattering departure from the modus operandi of the past 5 years. None have been signed to an extension either.
I think they are going to end up dealing Sugano, Mullins and OHearn like the article suggests. And what they need back is very clear they need pitching. Lots of pitching.
Mullins stays; fan favorite and longest tenured Oriole. He sells seats. He gets a multi year deal.
The team and Mullins failing to agree on a long-term extension prior to his final arb year is good evidence that his return shouldn’t be considered very likely.
Mullins and his agent seemingly have in mind that FA will get him a contract better than any previous offer from the Orioles. Not impossible that Mullins returns if the FA market ultimately isn’t as good as he thinks, but the Orioles have had the exclusive opportunity to put an offer forward that should reflect if they’re strongly committed to keeping Mullins.
I don’t like owners meddling but I can see Mr Rubenstein voiding any attempt by the FO to trade him. Ced sells seats.
Mullins doesn’t sell seats. Nice guy but no one will cry when the team sucks and guys get booted
Mullins isn’t putting butts in the stands. He also isn’t getting a long term contract from us which I believe is the right call.
Is Cowser capable of playing CF everyday?
Agree realist, the team hasn’t approached Mullins yet there was an article prior to the season, I think that lack of action said it all.
Other long tenured popular Orioles like Nick Markakis and Adam Jones ultimately didn’t stay past early 30s and finish their careers here. Markakis left while the Orioles were good, too. I don’t think Mullins will finish out in Baltimore either.
kev- the vision was Cowser would hold it for a year or two and ultimately give way to Enrique Bradfield. He spelled Mullins there in 2024 as a rookie while Mullins was hurt/slumping then moved over to the corner later in the season.
Is Cowser capable of playing everyday, period
Fellas, looks like I’m in the minority here. Again; owners call. In the midst of all this chaos, he’s as steady as ever. The org needs him. True, if up to Elias, he gone. The FO gets overruled here.
This would be a terrible usage of team resources. AAA has multiple CFs ready for the MLB as well as Cowser already in the MLB. Mullins is great, but resigning him is not something we need.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you irz8310. Yep, a GM moves him. My gut says the owner steps in and says to the POBO extend him.
Jeff – it can go any direction, July will be interesting!
Cowser comes across as an athlete that plays baseball.
Reminds me of Kirk Gibson; at the plate and in the field along with similar body type and abilities. Like Gibson, I see him having some really good years including playoff contributions. But also average to below average years, also like Kirk. To me, he’s a keeper.
Letting Jones and kakis walk was the right call too.
Mullins will be the next and I think that’ll be the right call again.
Agree to disagree Jbigz12. Ced gets a 4 year deal. When Enrique (in AA) gets to OPACY, he gets his shot at CF with Ced going to a corner … along with Cowser. If Enrique can’t adjust, Ced goes back to CF. Oh, Kersjsted (sp?) is in the mix here too.
TM: Yes, very interesting indeed. Whether buyer or seller, they have pieces of value to available to deal for sure.
If he sells seats it’s not many. 13k
irz, because prospects are 100% guaranteed to be quality MLB players?
What is Cowser hitting in parts of 3 seasons in the majors? Kjerstad?
Trade O’Neill, Mayo, Perez, Sanchez and get a new hitting coach. Maybe find a young controllable starter in a trade. This year is done. Adley and Mountcastle could be next .
Like the article says, O’Neill’s contract and performance make him next to impossible to trade.
Canuck – The fact O’Neill has the highest LT salary on the team absolutely blows my mind, and now they are stuck with him for 2 more years.
FPG – looking at the back of O’Neill’s baseball card, kind of wonder if over the course of the contract, the O’s will get one season like his ’21 STL, ’24 BOS lines and two seasons of, well, this.
Rogue – Very possible he’d put up a repeat of his 2024 season (not 2021 though), especially in 2027 because it would be a contract year.
The O’Neill signing looked like a wash when they did it versus Santander’s production. They were banking on O’Neill producing 25 or 30 HR in the 115-120 games he’d play in a year. They saw 2021, 2024: power, higher average, supposedly better defense.
Santander isn’t lighting the world on fire but isn’t all that far off his slower starts from 3 of the past 4 years when he ended May around .220 with under 10 HR. Santander may only hit .230 and 30 HR, but he’ll walk and he’ll give 150 games.
First, Santander signed for less money than the Orioles were betting on, closing that gap to what O’Neill signed for. Then, O’Neill got hurt right away, he’s already missed 18 games out of 42. Plus, he’s only got 2 HR and is hitting .188 so he’s less productive than Santander even with Santander’s slow start…and O’Neill’s 2021’s defense isn’t coming back either.
Looks like another Elias mistake. Laureano’s not exactly lighting the world on fire as a roster spot occupier but at least has 5 HR at a third of the cost, would remove the argument of blocking Kjerstad or someone like Carlson (who hasn’t hit at MLB but was in AAA)
Thornton – It’s my understanding the O’Neill injuries are bodybuilding related …. that will never change with him, he will never stop pushing himself as a bodybuilder.
There’s a reason why the Red Sox didn’t even offer him a QO despite needing a righthanded power bat.
The market for right-handed first baseman is weak, so it’s doubtful Mountcastle has much value. As for Rutschman… that is more difficult to figure out. Maybe his problem *wasn’t* that he was hurt in the second half last year, Maybe the problem is that his development has not merely stalled but cratered. There is clearly something not right about him. For his sake — and the Orioles — let’s hope he’s hiding another injury.
Bosox need a first baseman…..
Wonder if the Orioles would trade in division like that. Red Sox certainly have prospects…
The opposite also holds true to Mr. Pud.
Who would want Sanchez?
Rutchman may set the record for drop in value in such a short period of time. I was hoping they’d give him $100m for 6-7 years, but now what is he worth? Literally, nothing.
Honestly, the Giants could use O’Hearn. We have 3 positions in which we are getting zero value (offensively) – 1B (Wade Jr, Villar & Casey Schmitt), C (Patrick Bailey & Sam Huff), & RF vs LHP (Matos).
If we can get O’Hearn I can see this lineup against RHP as:
RF – Mike Yastrzemski
LF – Heliot Ramos
CF – Jung-Hoo Lee
3B – Matt Chapman
1B – Ryan O’Hearn
DH – Wilmer Flores
SS – Willy Adames
C – Patrick Bailey
2B – Christian Koss/Brett Wisely (Until Tyler Fitzgerald comes back)
Giants could use a lefty Bat. Also he can play RF/LF, so technically we aren’t blocking Bryce Eldridge.
Orioles would like Wisenhunt
That Adames contract is looking like a potential albatross so far. I never felt like he was good enough to justify such a huge deal.
Chapman and Adames bats don’t add up too much offense for over $300 million in commitments. They are complementary pieces for an offense, not centerpieces.
Chapman was 13th in war in all of baseball last year.
Because of his world class, platinum glove, not his Bat.
Sammy just talks
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-f…
That 125 OPS+ last season was a mirage, right? He can’t possibly be that good again. After all he was 3rd best with the bat at his position in MLB last season. That is why it’s…hmmmm, it’s 120 this season.
Oh wait, his bat is really good, too.
Jay Patel 2;
I like O’Hearn a lot. But…..
He played his home games in a pitchers park in KC . Wasn’t terribly successful. Made some adjustments, has far more experience, and has thrived at Camden which is a hitters park. He’s an above-average 1B and can play an adequate corner OF in that park.
However Oracle Park is a pitchers park with a large yard and an atmosphere whereby the batted ball doesn’t carry well.
O’Hearn would probably be a rental. He’s perfect for the Yankees and their short right field porch.
I know Elias has to be the portrait of positivity, but even if the entire lineup was clicking on all cylinders, this team is going nowhere with that rotation. 2025 is a lost year for this bunch.
If there’s no money for starting pitching now, it will only get worse when the young guys start reaching arbitration.
They are looking at something like Tidwell from the Mets for Mullins. 10-15 rated prospect would be max.
Gonna cost more than that for Mullins. The Mets have plenty of outfielders the Orioles could use a righty who can play center like Siri. Siri, Tidwell and another prospect sounds about right.
Siri? No, thank you. The Orioles don’t need another low-OBP guy. Trading players in their walk years for future assets is wise, but if the O’s think that Siri is part of their future as a starting outfielder, they’ve got bigger problems than arguably the league’s worst pitching staff.
Siri would be a 4th or 5th outfielder not some key piece for their future. The Mets have a lot of right handed hitting outfielders they would probably want to swap one out if they got Mullins and the Orioles could use one.
Why would you trade Mullins for a Grade C pitching prospect and a fourth or fifth outfielder? Those guys are all over the place.
I suggested Tidwell, Siri and another prospect. Thats what i suggested.
Because Mullins isn’t a top tier talent.
As much as I would love to see Siri gone from the Mets (they really don’t need him) he is a negative offensively and that doesn’t serve the needs of the O’s.
How about Tidwell and O’Neil?
The Orioles need a bench outfielder who hits from the right side and can play center. It’s not a huge dire need but it’s a need.
Who is ONeil?
Who is O’Neil? Lol he only was a batting champ not so many years ago and plays multiple positions including CF. So you can do some homework, his first name is Jeff
That would be Jeff McNeil knucklehead.
They have that guy. His name is Laureano. Now if they could just get someone to play well enough to permanently lodge him on the bench…
Lol yes you are correct….my bad. Not the first time I’ve bungled a name. Still, that’s the offer…..
Yeah I forgot they signed Laureano. The Mets still have too many outfielders but the Orioles really dont need another one.
I don’t like McNeil as a fit because the Mets need lefty bats and the Orioles do not. Truly all the Orioles need is pitching and big league ready pitching not prospects.
Why would they want a rental player in return?
Is Bidwell a rental?
Tidwell just isn’t enough. Perhaps Tidwell and Butto. That could make sense.
For a rental???
The Mets don’t need lefty bats, they need lefty bullpen arms.
The Mets aren’t trading Butto.
It won’t cost more than that. Another Orioles player being way overvalued. He’s an average center fielder with slightly above average bat.
Don’t forget he can run and has some power…
He does but you’re getting 60 games for him and a prospect 10-15 isn’t bad. Pete Crow Armstrong is showing everyone why you don’t over pay for a two month rental.
It’s true Mullins isn’t a superstar, but as suggested at the very top of these comments, he is a nice piece for a contending team. Pitching prospects are so unreliable I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the Orioles to want someone like Tidwell and another middle-ranked prospect.
Tidwell as the headliner for Mullins is definitely fair as an O’s fan. He’s a controllable prospect that looks like a #4 starter in the bigs.
He seems a lot like McDermott, who the O’s seem to be struggling to develop. They’d probably ruin Tidwell, too.
I think McDermott’s home is in the pen long term.
O’s have plenty of options to soak up those AB’s, no need for Siri. Would rather see Ryan Clifford come to Baltimore, if bringing in a Mets bat. As for pitching, he might be further away, but Santucci is going to be a stud.
Trading Siri is more about clearing the Mets outfield logjam than the Orioles getting some valuable piece. The Orioles don’t need Clifford they don’t need more lefty outfield bats and Mayo or Basallo will probably be taking over 1b.
Santucci, Tidwell and Siri. That makes sense although the Orioles need pitching help now not later.
There’s zero reason to take on Siri. If the Mets don’t need him, they can release him and eat the salary. Baltimore has plenty of guys to give AB’s to, and if they don’t want to toss them to a kid, they’re already paying Dylan Carlson.
If we’re talk about trading Mullins, odds are we’re talking from a place where we’ve punted the season. Collect value, worry about needs in the off-season. And maybe this time actually address them. Keep Clifford and trade Mayo for an arm. Or whatever. Just get the arm!
Whatever the case, if you want to compete with THIS group, you don’t need pitching prospects. You need MLB arms. Elias, assuming he keeps his job, should be making moves now that set himself up to field the pitching this team needs in 2026.
If he thinks this team can compete in 2025, then the time to get that pitching is now. This team will not overcome the deficit without it.
Either way, Jose Siri has no place on the Orioles roster.
Siri is a rather meaningless piece of my suggested trade. Why you are making such a big deal about it is weird and lame.
Like I said already the Orioles need pitching. Immediate pitching help. Thats what they need.
Try having a conversation instead of being weird.
I countered your point about Siri with a point about Siri and when you countered again with Siri, I did as well.
Back and forth is typical of conversations. Calling someone who disagrees with you “weird” seems unnecessary.
And when you factor in that, in the end, you remembered the team already had Laureano… I’d blame you for the whole bit, but I’m currently blaming everything on Elias. This conversation. Lack of pitching. The price of eggs. All of it. His fault.
Ya mean, better than Anthony Kay!!
If the Mariners aren’t calling about O’Hearn then there’s a systemic problem at identifying talent at positions of need in the Mariners organization. They can’t keep punting offensive production at 1B…
The Mariners are the team that traded away their closer at the 2023 deadline and went on to miss the playoffs by 1 game.
There is definitely a systemic problem in Seattle.
King. Of. Cards;
Mariners / Dipoto are always a buck short.
Plug one hole, another pops up.
That Kyle Stowers/Connor Norby for Trevor Rogers trade is looking more horrific by the day. They probably could have had Luzardo for them instead. Elias is great at drafting and developing talent, but building the major league team through trades, free agent signings, etc. has been a different story for the most part.
One has to wonder how much is ownership’s fault too, as it seems like they aren’t letting Elias spend much, when the team should be going all in with trying to win at this point. They signed Tyler O’Neill in the offseason and didn’t do much else.
Another complaint is their lack of trying to lock up their young studs. No extensions yet for Adley, Gunnar, Cowser, Westburg, Grayson, etc.
Unless ownership decides to start spending more money and Elias starts making better moves at the major league level, this team is going to end up going into another rebuild before they ever got much of a chance to capitalize on their previous one.
I wouldn’t be too pleased right now if I were an Orioles fan.
The Orioles actually added about 62 million in salary signing ONeill, Morton, Sugano, Gibson, Sanchez and Laureano. So they did spend they just didnt spend wisely.
I actually liked the O’Neill signing. Thought it would be most of what Santander gave you for a fraction of the cost.
Oopsies
No real issue with any of the signings in a vacuum. Collectively, at some point this franchise will have to realize you can’t turn a bunch of back end guys into a playoff ace. It’s basically become the curse of Mike Mussina. Should of just paid that man.
ONeill is streaky he will be fine long term. The problem was giving Morton and Sugano a combined 28 million dollars instead of signing an actual ace. Or heck trading for Luzardo or Crochet would have worked too.
Joel, those were all short-term commitments when the type of players the Orioles needed to put them over the top required long-term commitments.
Well they did spend money. I agree the short term commitments weren’t the way to go but they did spend they just spent poorly.
They needed a top of the rotation left handed starter. They could have signed Snell or traded for either Crochet or Luzardo.
I wouldn’t give Adley an extension. Gunnar is going to get Soto type money. He would be crazy to sign an extension with the Orioles. Not a chance of giving Grayson an extension with his injuries. They should try to lock up Westburg while they can.
Jury is out on Rubinstein. There did seem to be some discord between him and Elias this past off-season. Wish I could pull a link for you, but it felt to me, at the time, that Elias wanted to build the team his way. He has a vision of a perennial contender.
Which apparently doesn’t involve pitching…
Rubinstein is a very wealthy long time O’s fan who said he wanted to see a ring again before he dies. I’m assuming you don’t spend ten figures on that dream and then quibble over a free agent contract or two.
Roguesaw2;
I’ve written for 2 weeks that the owner has quite probably brought in a consulting firm to give him a rundown on the O’s players at both the major and minor league levels.
But Mr. Rubinstein also said he didn’t have a long time to win a championship.
MLB followers have been through this dozens of times with new owners that think spending money guarantees winning (like the kids positing on here). The latest example being Steven Cohen with the Mets. Fortunately he was friendly with David Stearns, hired him, and has been listening to him.
This was a screwy rebuild – one where it was done primarily by the draft…..and they didn’t draft many (if any) pitchers. But Elias and Zig were hired by the Angelos family to build up the O’s for sale, and they did a great job to get a prime price for the franchise.
Unfortunately, it may well be that O’s fans got rid of one set of owners that thought they could run a baseball franchise….and may have replaced them with another one.
Wut?
@HBan22 – No mention of the Burnes trade? Or landing the best SP traded last deadline?
The season is disappointing more for how bad the offense has been than the pitching IMO. Yes, the pitching has been bad. But it’s also been hurt. And the realiatic alternatives weren’t the top 3 FAs even making aggressive offers.
This season is a wet dream for Elias. He doesn’t have to trade any of his prospects, hell he might even get to trade for more!
Lol
Elias has spent last couple offseasons and trade deadlines making lowball offers to sellers and blocking anyone appealing. That’s what painted him in a corner last second to get junk Trevor Rogers-giving up 2 somewhat decent prospects that could’ve got him better arm earlier thinking he was “smartest guy in the room”. Some FOs may now get their rocks off insulting his intelligence with the same approach.
But if you subtract one don’t you still need to replace??
So sad that it has come to this..
Anthony nailed it in the 1st paragraph coining my beloved Os as “bad times rolling”. So true.
I think Mullins ends up in KC. The Royals desperately need outfield production, and have pitching to offer. Guys like Noah Cameron, maybe Michael Lorenzen or Steven Cruz.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Witt getting some help. That would make sense.
A rental Michael Lorenzen would do 0 for Baltimore if they’re in a position to deal Mullins
I agree, Mullins would make that team a major American league contender
despite batting .200 for over 162 games, Hyde keeps hitting Rutchmann in the 2-3-4 holes…
start reading now Mike, you have waited too long the last 2 years.
How did you calculate .200 over 162?
It’s hard for me to believe the O’s are truly done with their window in the long run. But this large setback should an object lesson for many teams that, yes, there does come a time when a young squad needs to sprinkle in a few top FA’s to get them over the top.
Everyone has known for two seasons or more that the O’s needed a top FA pitcher or two. Maybe they’ve had some bad luck in their negotiations with Burnes, etc but they didn’t address that issue and now they are paying the price. Their offense is no great shakes right now either, but I gotta think the existing roster can turn that around.
Good luck to the O’s straightening things out.
“…or more…”
My friend, long time O’s fans have known the O’s needed a top FA pitcher, or two, since, like, 1997.
Unless they begin playing .800 ball over the next month I’d suggest they punt this season and trade anything that can be of value not certain to be a long-term piece such O’Hearn, Mullins, Eflin, Mountcastle, Urias. Moving those guys out will finally align there young resources and force the hand of the manager to play these guys vs bringing them up and not playing them (Mayo). I’d suggest a better infield defensive alignment as well by kicking Henderson to 3rd, Holiday to SS, and Westy to 2b. Cowser to LF, hopefully Bradfield/Honeycutt are ready within the next year to take CF and let Kjerstad continue to play every day in RF. The rotation of Basallo, Rutcshman, and Mayo can rotate 1b/catcher/dh and hopefully Oneill opts out so they’re not stuck with them.
Really like the rotation when they start getting guys back Rodriguez, Bradish, and Wells. They need to bring in at minimum a 2/3 starter this winter and let the remainder battle for the 5th spot. Call me crazy but I am actually a fan of Dean Kremer but the dude is a complete head case. If he could just pitch off of his fastball and locate better vs trying to trick every hitter he could potentially take the next step so to speak but he seems to not want to adjust from what he’s been doing the past 2 seasons.
Can’t believe Hyde and company aren’t out of town yet but this thing needs a new voice. I’d suggest Buck Britton in the interim as the young guys know him and then get a veteran this offseason.
Like “kicking Henderson to 3rd”. Actually, I prefer him at 1b. But whatever; just get him off SS; like yesterday.
So much of this comes down to coaching/managing. Degradation of fundamentals, lack of development of patience at the plate, guys who were further along as hitters than they are now. Especially Rutschman.
What happened to the defensive SS Henderson was playing in 2023 and early 2024? Before he got the bobbles and started nailing cameramen?
I’d be ok with an attempt signing Eflin for #2 starter money for 3 years. He’s a known quantity. Sugano is 35 and has not pitched through a Baltimore summer. One year with a second year team option, heavily incentivized? But not a preferred option. If not going for that limited retainer, then trade in July.
Of the walking wounded at this point I consider only Bradish a relevant piece. Rodriguez is one of many who I think is going to become a reliever at best. Wells is a 5th/swing at best (never pitched more than 110 innings in a year). Kremer will always be hot and cold and never more than a competitor for the back end. Orioles have to be THE player for every big name and mid range guy and get at least 3 of them this winter if not 4, and not on 1 year deals.
Totally agree a new voice is needed . Clean sweep of Hyde and staff, like yesterday. They’ve waited too long to salvage 2025.
Yeap, this is the time to start thinking about a reload for the Orioles. Other than Mullins, O’Hearn, Sagano, and O’Neil, there are other players that would be worth trading.
Zach Effin is in his walk year.
Seranthony Dominguez, and Gregory Soto are both in their walk years too. Jorge Mateo has an option for ’26, so he’s all but a one year rental.
Ryan Mountcastle and Ramon Urias have an additional year of control beyond this year. (Ramon Urias is nails. Ninja good player).
It’s been a sellers market at the deadline ever since the Expanded Wild Card era. And no other seller is as ‘rich’ with short term contending players as the Orioles.
If the Orioles sell…hide the women and children in 2026!
…furthermore…
Only Adley and Gunnar Henderson have eclipsed 1500 Plate Appearances.
Colton Cowser, Jordan Westberg, Heston Kjerstad, and Jackson Holliday have less than half of 1500 PA’s.
A year off to allow these Uber talented players learn the MLB craft, without the weight of expectations, will be instrumental in their development.
It will allow Kyle Bradish, Tyler Wells, Trevor Rogers, and Grayson Rodriguez to come back healthy and not be under pressure to instantly be what they had been. Cade Povich could develop further too.
Coby Mayo, Samuel Basallo, Enrique Bradfield Jr, Chayce McDermott, Dylan Beavers, and Jud Fabain could start learning the big league pitching environment too.
There is a big bright chromatic Silver lining to the Orioles 2025 season.
((Perfect world, they trade for Andrew Painter). 🙂
If the Orioles posted Gibson, Morton, Perez, Sanchez AND Mateo on the market as a package deal, what would be the return?
First we’d have to wait a few breathless hours while the crashed telecommunications network caused by this offering was restored….a few more hours while Elias’ head stopped spinning and he sorted through the offers.
Cash Considerations FTW.
Someone would link them the number for the waiver wire. I don’t think they’d even get cash for that package.
I’d trade Holmes and a filler for Mullins, they could use the pitching BIG TIME! More outfield depth never hurt anyone and he could be a jolt of energy for the Braves kind of like how verdugo was before crashing back down to Earth. Yes we have multiple years of control over Holmes but he hasn’t been that great and long reliever/starter type pitchers aren’t that hard to come by. The braves also have a decent amount of pitchers in the minors that will be due for a promotion eventually! I don’t understand why the Braves today sent Bryce Elder down while keeping Holmes in the rotation. Bryce has been pretty darn good lately, definitely more so than Holmes, and the way he’s been pitching that is perfect 4th or 5th starter numbers! I’ve always seen so many Braves fans wanting to burn Elder at the stake, but I never thought he was all that bad. He’s had some rough stretches but at face value, you know exactly what you’ll get from him, he won’t set the world on fire, but he goes out there, pitches his best and puts the Braves in position to win! They still have years of control over him as well and he’s younger. At this point you either leave him up with the way he’s pitched, or you trade him or Holmes for reinforcements else where. No need to send a pitcher down when he’s in the middle of one of his hottest stretches yet in the major leagues! This very well could have a negative effect on him when all we had to do is keep him up nicely settled into the 5th spot in the rotation, move Holmes to a bullpen role where he was good last year, and get rid of a pitcher that in no type of way still deserves to be on the roster like Rafael Montero! At this point trading Holmes or elder for reinforcements is what needs to happen. Me personally, it would be Holmes, but also if a trade doesn’t happen I’d bring elder back up, put Holmes in the bullpen, and get rid of Montero! I can’t stand it that the braves would rather keep someone who is as cold as ice over someone like Elder, who if not for his contributions of late, wouldn’t have the Braves finally sitting at .500!
Also I didn’t know until now that o’hearn can play RF. Him or Mullins will work! And if they don’t choose to trade Holmes, trade elder! Either way I don’t think it’s right in any way to have elder sent back down to rot in AAA he’s been on a tear and deserves better, especially over someone like montero!
If Meadows doesn’t make it back, I’m sure the Tigers would be interested…..
Orioles need pitching home grown or otherwise plus a new manager
And they listened. New interim manager installed.
The Orioles are a mess. WTF is Elias doing?
Elias has only two choices, sell at the deadline or buy big. Standing pat is not an option if he wants to keep his job. If the Orioles go from 100+ wins to last place in one season and he did nothing in the 2024-2025 offseason to make the team better, 2026 will find him on the unemployment line.
They should sign Greg Bird
When Westburg comes back the Orioles should move Henderson to 3rd, put Holliday at shortstop and Westburg at 2nd.
This situation falls squarely on Elias. He had a new owner with plenty of cash who encouraged him to spend what he needed to. Way too cautious to spend money thinking he could get away with the mediocre pitching and outs ore the competition. While they were close on Burnes (so they say), there were other arms available that could’ve been added. What a shame to waste a young offensive club because you won’t spend the money to bring in better starters. That and the failed trade of Stowers and Norby to the Marlins for way too little return. Hyde shouldn’t take the hit for the GM’s bonehead moves.
Although Stowers and Norby were not in the long term plans for Baltimore at the time of the trade, they certainly did not receive value in return considering. In hindsight they should have included either Kjerstad or Urias and maybe gotten Alacantra?
dodgers
Both deserve a hit for different things.
This winter, Elias knew he had an injury-prone Rodriguez coming off another injury and Bradish out the first half of the season, and Burnes not signed. He needed at least one ace and one other top arm. Fried was available for what they spent on others, and Luzardo did not cost much in talent. Sugano still could have come and then the Gibson desperation move would not be needed. Dropping Coulombe but keeping Perez. Running from a deal with Hoffman because of being scared of an injury but signing Kittredge who immediately gets injured. O’Neill has been a bust signing as a replacement for lost Santander production and Sanchez has provided nothing. Almost every step Elias took over the winter he’s stepped in it. Sugano so far is the only positive, and a hot humid Baltimore summer awaits.
Hyde is on the hook for things like lineup management. No reason to continually bat Mountcastle in the middle of the order when he’s at .200 with no power. Rutschman staying at the top under .200. Or to play musical chairs constantly. Sitting Holliday when he needs everyday at bats and playing Mateo who can’t hit anyone. O’Hearn goes 3-4 with a 3 run HR and then sits 2 games. Leaving struggling pitchers in 2 batters too long or yanking a cruising starter after 70 pitches. I’ve never been high on Hyde and I thought he needed to go after last season. The team is listless, lifeless, and needs a new messenger – even if the issue isn’t Hyde and he may have success elsewhere it won’t be in Baltimore.
Mullins and O’hearn for Jackson Jobe
Tigers would decline, even if the two were fully paid
Hard pass!
Ramon Urias for Josiah Gray, because they are apparently more interested in Rivera than Mayo, though Rivera was hitting .360
Elias had ample time to deal one of the rentals plus Mountcastle for pitching over the last year. Needed a second ace to go with Burnes and didn’t get it. Now has no aces. Despite all the talent on the roster, Elias’ job should be in-jeopardy. Hyde should be fired as well.
Hyde should have absolutely been canned this past offseason. We need a veteran head coach who has won it all before and knows what it takes. The only reason he hasn’t been fired yet is because of the abysmal offseason Elias had and therefore Elias is giving Hyde a really long leash at the moment. Hyde NEEDS to go immediately and Elias should be looked at by ownership in the offseason. Also the amount of injuries this team has had is unreal starting last year. Bad lucky is part of it but there is something else going on too. The training staff needs to be looked into. It’s truly incredible how disappointing of a season it has been so far. This is the most disappointed I have ever been as an O’s fan.
O’s need to draft and develop pitchers. Also bringing the wall in was a mistake. It was a great homefield advantage against power hitting teams. We have the talent but need a GM who isnt afraid of trading his prospects for proven players. Forget this year and bring up the youngsters. No more big contracts for average players.
Doubt they would trade with Yankees… but Ramon Urias would be of interest.
Maybe Ian Hamilton (controllable reliever) not making much money for him. Not a sexy trade for either team, but it does fill needs on both teams.
No doubt to me Elias gets calls on Ramon. If I was the FO, after Ced, extend him too. Glue guy in the field; plays all 4 positions adequately. And considering his inconsistent playing time usage, his bat stays remarkably steady.
Does this mean Rafael Devers will be in Baltimore soon?
Garry-only if he agrees to play 1B lol
Mullins is a great fit for the Giants,a switch hitter to play all three OF spots,who have no other good center fielders. Send Matos down for playing time/Experience and Yaz is a FA Next year.