The Phillies have acquired closer Jhoan Duran from the Twins in exchange for catching prospect Eduardo Tait and right-handed pitcher Mick Abel. Both teams have officially announced the deal.
Duran was one of the biggest names on this summer’s trade market. He came in at no. 34 on MLBTR’s list of the top 50 trade candidates, but he surely would have ranked higher if it seemed more likely that he’d be dealt. The flamethrowing right-hander is one of the undisputed best closers in the game, with a career 2.47 ERA, 2.48 SIERA, and 74 saves in 83 chances over the past four seasons. Dating back to his rookie season in 2022, he has thrown 233 2/3 innings in 223 games, racking up 292 strikeouts (seventh-most among relievers) with an elite 63.2% groundball rate. His 9.10 Win Probability Added (WPA) ranks third in that same span, trailing only Devin Williams and Félix Bautista. The 1,284 pitches he’s thrown at or above 100 miles an hour (per Statcast) are easily the most in the majors; Mason Miller ranks second with 819. Only 27 years old and arguably pitching better than ever – he’s on pace for career-highs in both the FanGraphs and Baseball Reference versions of WAR – Duran remains under team control via arbitration through the 2027 campaign.
The possibility of the Twins trading Duran began to seem more and more realistic over the past couple of days, with the 51-57 Twins looking to take advantage of a seller’s market and a bevy of contending teams seeking late-inning bullpen help. It was no secret the Phillies were one such club. A few weeks ago, The Athletic’s Matt Gelb reported that Duran (and teammate Griffin Jax) would be “prized targets” for Philadelphia, noting that, in contrast to past deadlines, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was prioritizing “controllable big leaguers” and, in particular, a controllable “shutdown, late-inning reliever.” Since Gelb’s initial report, several more sources linked the Phillies to Duran, including Nightengale and the New York Post’s Jon Heyman, but the most recent reporting indicated that their refusal to part with top prospect Andrew Painter would ultimately prevent them from landing Duran, with both Nightengale and Rosenthal and Gelb suggesting as much. Evidently, the Twins softened their demands, although there is no doubt the Phillies still paid a high price to acquire their new bullpen ace.
Tait is widely considered a top-100 prospect, ranked 50th by Baseball America, 51st by Baseball Prospectus, and 56th by MLB Pipeline. As BA notes, he is their first top-100 prospect to be traded ahead of the deadline since 2023, and the highest ranked since 2022. Whether or not the Twins achieved their reported goal of landing two top-100 prospects in exchange for Duran depends on which lists you’re looking at; Abel is currently no. 92 on MLB Pipeline’s list, but he dropped off BA’s most recent post-draft rankings and fell off BP’s list after 2023. For what it’s worth, neither Tait nor Abel was included on FanGraphs’ latest top 100 update.
Looking beyond the arbitrary “top 100” cutoff, however, what matters is that the Twins received a pair of highly talented young players, of a caliber rarely seen moved in deadline deals. Tait is a bat-first catcher with big power and a strong throwing arm, but the rest of his defensive game needs significant work. Still, the bat has enough potential that he could succeed in the majors (presumably at first base or DH) even if he doesn’t stick behind the plate. He lit up the competition in the Dominican Summer League and the Florida Complex League in his first two professional seasons, but he hasn’t looked quite as powerful in Single-A and High-A this year. That said, he’s only 18 years old, which is young for his level, and scouting reports matter far more than his numbers right now. Dan Hayes of The Athletic notes that the Twins have “very good” internal grades on Tait.
Abel might not have quite as much upside as he once did, but he has looked much better this year than he did in 2023 or ’24. He has a 2.31 ERA and 3.56 FIP in 13 Triple-A starts, both his best numbers at any level in any year of his professional career. While he looked overmatched at times in his first six MLB starts for the Phillies, his mediocre overall numbers are the combination of three strong starts and three disappointing outings. He’s not there quite yet, but he showed signs that he could soon become a capable big league starting pitcher. Whether that’s a mid-rotation or back-end starter is now up to the Twins, but he has good raw stuff and a deep arsenal for their development and coaching staffs to work with.
Heading into play today, the Phillies ranked 24th in MLB with a 4.33 bullpen ERA and 15th with a 3.82 bullpen SIERA. Their strong starting rotation has helped to limit the bullpen’s workload (their bullpen ranks last in innings pitched), but still, it’s not hard to understand why Dombrowski was looking for a significant upgrade. Philadelphia’s longest tenured reliever, hard-throwing lefty José Alvarado, will be out until mid-August serving a PED suspension, and he won’t be eligible to pitch in the playoffs. Jordan Romano, the team’s primary bullpen acquisition of the offseason, has struggled to a 6.81 ERA. No one knows what to expect from David Robertson, who did not sign with a team until earlier this month. He remained one of the best relievers in baseball at age 39 in 2024, but he essentially started his spring training last week. Orion Kerkering and Matt Strahm have provided manager Rob Thomson with a couple of reliable back-end options, but as the Phillies battle with the Mets for the NL East crown and look to contend for a World Series, it’s clear to see why they identified Duran as a major difference-maker.
As for the Twins, there is now no question they are in full sell mode, having dealt Duran and Chris Paddack, whom they sent to the Tigers on Monday. This makes it seem all the more likely that they will soon trade Willi Castro, Harrison Bader, and Danny Coulombe, all of whom are set to hit free agency at the end of the season. However, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand notes that Minnesota is now far more likely to hold on to Jax, their other controllable relief ace. Bobby Nightengale of the Minnesota Star Tribune echoed Feinsand’s statement, writing that the Twins have not “ruled out” trading Jax, but their asking price could now be astronomical – perhaps too high for anyone to meet.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic was the first to report that the two sides were closing in on a trade, while Bob Nightengale of USA Today was the first to report that the Twins would receive Tait and Abel in exchange for Duran. ESPN’s Jeff Passan was the first to confirm the agreement.
Photo in article courtesy of Isaiah J. Downing, Imagn Images.
Damn wanted him for the jays
You know they probably gave up Painter and Abel in this one. Philly probably gave up too much here.
Should be a lot to do it today and not tomorrow you would think
AI GM: I don’t think the cost would be that different between today and tomorrow.
Probably just painter and 2 random minor leaguers for duran
If this deal does go down, they will not be going for Suarez, I guess.
Could be Crawford. Even with his speed there’s questions about CF. No power. Ground balls. A lot not to like and if desperate for a elite closer could give up.
I like Crawford but there are definitely reasons for worry.
I really don’t think they will give up Painter for Duran, but Abel for sure along with more prospects of value. Dombrowski is never afraid to deal top prospects at the deadline, but Painter appears to be off limits. We’ll find out once the details are available.
If they did give Painter then I hold out hopes that Minnesota will deal Joe Ryan to Boston.
It’s DUMBrowski.
DUMBo takes pride in how he’s willing to give up more than anyone else.
The Phillies farm emptied inside two years for two relievers.
Yeah he’s only taken how many teams to the WS. He’s here to win it all not prospect hoard.
Nice try
Yeah WS champion
Dombrowski is sporting multiple WS Champion rings, is the only GM/POBO to lead 4 teams to the WS, and has had teams reach the playoffs 12 times, the 2nd most among all GM/POBOs. He is a lock for the HOF.
I thing the DUMb one is staring you in the face in the mirror every day.
Dave Dombrowski strikes again. I miss him as a GM for my Detroit Tigers. All he does is Win-Win-Win..
I agree! I think the rebuild would have been much faster if he had stayed instead of giving the reins to Avila. He usually trades prospects away but he did well getting young players to do reboots along the way. Like the trade to get Max and AJax.
Completely wrong take.
Both? Nah
And don’t forget Miller and Crawford.
Abel, yes. Not Painter.
Cap – Trader Dave doesn’t lose many trades. His trades for the Sox were great, he’s good at knowing what to give up.
Fever- as usual, you are 100% correct my friend. Hoping all is well? It’s Mason Miller or bust for NY now. Lol. I would much rather have a starter truthfully. New Jersey kid Zac Gallen would be fine for the Yanks or the Red Sox. We’ll see what happens.
Fever- Now the question is will Breslow come away empty handed, settle for the bottom of the barrel, or surprise everyone and pull off something big. I don’t expect a big surprise, but hope they do something meaningful. Obviously things are heating up, so we did not have to wait for the last day for teams to start getting active.
According to many sources, the Phillies are not willing to give a painter for anybody which I understand with Nola, not coming back till mid August. Now that they traded (Mick) Abel, they can’t trade painter because he will probably be in their rotation very soon.
Painter was never in consideration. He is easily the best pitching prospect in baseball.
tait and abel….. still a lot but they held onto painter. As an Os fan, if this is what they traded Bautista for, i would have been fine with it (confused as to why they are collecting catching prospects, but happy with the return if we aligned on doing a double swap of tait for a similar value prospect that makes more sense- what would you do with a system with Basallo, Irish, Codine, willems, and anderson already. nice to have that many C, but having more than 5 of your top 30 prospects being C is weird already)
Teams need catching.If they have a surplus,you will get good value for them.Same as everybody wants the Red Sox to trade an outfielder.
I’d argue this is a huge W for the Phillies, considering what the Mets gave up for Rogers.
Actually Philly gave up nothing. Mick Abel pitched like 1 good game against the minor league Pittsburgh Pirates
Wrong
is commenting “damn wanted him for (insert team)” the new way to say “first?”
I like the 10 comments that speculated incorrectly once they heard Duran was moving to the Phils.
Seems like a light return. It’s surprising.
really- abel looks mlb ready with mid rotation upside (and lots of control). Tait is shooting up prospect lists (and was already top 100 going into this season). This also feels like Wood in the Soto deal, or when wily adames was traded as a prospect…. the insiders already know they are top 50 (or better), but the public (even guys like us) have not adjusted yet. Tait is a guy i could see being a top 25 prospect going into next year (as an 18/19 year old already in high A ball- the results do not need to be amazing, but holding your own in high A as a teen is a big deal since it means AA by 20 where he will be super young for the level- the type of push you only see from elite prospects)
They must get Helsley now.
I guess Atkins didn’t…
The plot thickens. Exactly what they needed
This package is gonna break me.
It might be the biggest prize for the whole deadline, though. Fantastic get by the Phils.
Don’t know word is that the closer of the Athletics’s closer Mason Miller is being rumored to be available Dodgers are said to be inquiring the cost is.
I’m not sure if they need to go that big, but good on them. I’d be surprised if they didn’t come away with 2-3 relievers; the offseason return has been underwhelming thus far.
Miller, Bautista, Adley (all thought experiment since they drafted so many C they may be prepping to move on), or Cease (but low team control makes that unlikely).
But unless one of them come out of nowhere, i doubt it…. i would not be shocked if the same package was offered for the first 2 before the trade for Duran happened.
Me too. I just know I’m gonna see Painter
Well, your not.
DarkSide830: How so? You’re just a fan, so your life won’t really change.
Intentional hyperbole to make a point/joke
I’ve seen movies that start with that line
That’s what she said!
I’ll see myself out…
Painter?
Yep that package is gonna be deadly
I hope we land Painter. This is the news I’ve been waiting for.
Not upset with the return. Twins will need catching depth in the minors and they need starting depth for the years to come.
The problem is that Tait is only 18 years old, so he’s probably at least 2-3 years away from making his debut. Also, there’s no guarantee that he can remain behind the plate as he advances through the middle to upper minors. He does appear to have an above average bat for his age so worst case, he moves to 1B, OF or DH if he can’t make it as a catcher.
Exactly what I just said to a friend of mine and with that risk, I don’t mind trading him because he lose his value because he’s not a catcher.
Tait’s pitch recognition as a hitter is incredible for his age. Probably because he’s been a catcher since he came out the womb. It’s a fair deal as much as I like Tait.
he is in his 18 season and recently reached high A. 4 years young for the level. He is not depth, the chances of being top 25 prospect in baseball going into next season is likely.
He was mostly an every other day C this season (DH the other half to keep the bat developing) but threw out 32% of runners- so not bad. I do not know enough (aside from what you can read in scouting reports) about the rest of the defensive profile.
From that it looks like the phils thought he could stick at C
His defense is terrible. He’s definitely going to be moved to 1B best case, DH most likely. The bat is for real though if he regains the power he had in rookie ball and the Dominican league.
I agree, didn’t want to give up Tait. For Duran, it was necessary.
It was painter of bust for me. Didn’t need to trade Duran. Abel looks more like SWR. Those back end top 100 SP haven’t worked well for us twins fans.
Adalberto Mejia says hi
Duran and Buxton, wouldn’t have gotten Painter.
I’m okay with that. Then just keep Duran
Agree. Two more years of control = more chances to maximize Durans value. Unless Twins suspect his value will crater in that time there was no reason to force a trade – certainly not for the questionable return.
As a twins fan …I pegged Duran and Either Bader or Castro to the Philly
For Abel , Escobar and Miller plus a relief prospect
So I’m not thrilled with this return.
Tait is nice, yes but just Tait and Abel leaves me desiring 1 more prospect in the top 25 or so.
Was looking at Stewart and Bader/castro for a Escobar and a lottery ticket.
Duran was part of a big arb Twins arb class. No way they kept all of them together through FA, too expensive. Someone had to go sooner or later. Wouldn’t be too surprising for another traded this deadline or the offseason. Team needs a wake up call.
Duran
Jax
Ryan
Ober
Larnach
All in their final arb year same season as Pablo’s last
Both teams win, given their their current situations. Some Phillies fans who don’t like Dombrowski are clueless. Minnesota has smart guys on their side too, and they’re not gonna give up the best available reliever who is under control for nothing.
I wanted the Cubs to get him. Duran and El Dragòn 8th and 9th inning. Would’ve been nasty
Is palencia legit or is he the next adbert alzolay?
He’s legit, but you can’t have enough closer level talent. I wonder what they asked Hoyer for? (You know they talked)
Palentcia aka El Dragòn is legit. A veteran that can bring the heat like Palentcia would take some pressure off El Dragòn
I hope Hoyer is cooking up a trade…
Same. Im shocked the return for Duran was this light. If they wanted a catcher with a bat that cant play defense, Ballesteros is ML-ready! Definitely could’ve thrown in a reasonable arm to pair with him.
Giant L for Jed. And he let Helsley get traded to another NL rival for an underwhelming trade package (IMO). Not that St.L wouldve been likely to trade him to the Cubs for the same return.
Philly is hungry like the wolf.
They have a HOF player in his prime for now. They really want a championship. I don’t blame them at all.
The reflex is to defend their actions, but let’s hope it doesn’t come undone.
I believe that off and infield Leadership CAN win Championships. You only get so many chances. Harper needs a lot of help (esp. from the BP) but the Future is Now. Intangibles matter not just a cliche IMHO. His timing with WASH was bad – just missed. Lessons Learned ???
WC scenario can help momentum teams esp. in a short series.
AbtD Anybody but the Dodgers again
The wolf has been fed!!
Still hungry and hunting.
The Cubs will do their usual half-measures. They’re not all in. Never will be with the ricketts hoyer love fest.
so you wanted Jed to overpay for a reliever? even though relievers are volatile year in and year out?
Arguably not even an overpay. Philly has a stacked rotation as is, and with Painter basically ready, Abel was definitely expendable. Tait could definitely hurt, but they’ll bank on Ricketts or Ferrebus filling out.
I think Jh Duran can be a difference maker plus he is not a rental.In my judgement So far PHi got the best RP.
Possibly just as effective even if Mason eventually gets traded.
There are other closers who are very good.Very good mental and physical skills plus ability to handle the pressure in a bigger city is very rare and sometimes only lasts in a small window.
NYM, CUBs, DET and others may live with that regret after this season is over.
He must’ve spoken with Hoyer. But without knowing what the ask was, we can’t fairly judge. Let’s not jump the gun just yet.
He will be awful for them
More times than not this is exactly as it plays out.
@whosehighpitch,
You shouldn’t be so judgmental of Abel. Give the young guy a chance!
Before seeing the return they have to be giving up painter, they already have a bunch of starters so it isn’t that bad for them to lose him
I’d assume its more like Abel-Crawford
Wowsers you guys are keeping Painter! Congratulations man!
Twins couldn’t even get Crawford that’s surprising
I think they will be happier with Tait over crawford- but i think those 2 are close on value.
I say it will be Miller and Abel plus another prospect. Abel, Miller and 1 more.
Miller was the other “untouchable”!!
@DarkSide830,
Or possibly Abel and Tait?
Abel and Tait actually
No chance. Abel likely though. Him and another piece I’d guess.
PTBNL in the Kody Clemens deal
Wow take that Mets. Mets get Rogers and Phillies strike back.
Take what? Mets improved
Yanks got 2 scrubs and a fringe everyday player so far
mlbnyyfan: The Phillies also gave up much bigger prospects than the Mets did.
Painter is the next Rocker, good trade.
John or Kumar or Lee or Rudolph Rocker?
Good pitcher
Rapidly declining K rate
2022: 33.5%
2023: 32.9%
2024: 28.9%
2025: 25.7%
xFIP-
2022: 53
2023: 64
2024: 65
2025: 71
The outstanding GB%, (60%-65%) though, negates that declining K% to some degree.
Yeah but Philly doesn’t care. They’re all in this year because they’re getting older and there’s a lockout/strike looming in a couple years so they have 2025 and 2026 and that’s it for this group.
Question is whether they avoided including Painter.
per BTV
Duran $26 million
Mick Abel $5 million
Eduardo Tait $18 million
$25 million to $23 million. Totally reasonable
A lot of people mentioning Andrew Painter. BTV has him at double Duran’s value, $49.5 million.
I wanted Harry Ford from Seattle, Not some guy that missed 2 seasons because of Tommy John.
I wish you could’ve had him
Detroit would have gave up a Painter and a plumber.
Might be a crazy 24 hours. What will the Dodgers do now? Every NL playoff team trying to load up on arms.
Dodgers will only acquire Steven kwan next
Poor Dodgers will muddle through.
Perfect description of their season.
And how would you describe the Mets season, with an inferior record, oh baseball expert?
I was just agreeing with you. You are the one who put them in the record books before the season started.
Well then I misinterpreted your comment. Mea culpa. But I don’t put the Dodgers in the record books. They do it all by themselves. In any case, we back two very good teams. Good luck in the stretch.
Tait and Abel are the return
Or Cain & Abel
Mick Abel and Eduardo Tait
The Yankees are really trying for Mason Miller now. Especially with Duran going to Philly.
Dominguez might need to be in that deal.
I really hope this happens and then Dominguez becomes a superstar.
No Baron thinking not. The A’s want Carlos Lagrange and Cam Schittler back. That’s unlikely though. My guess Lagrange, Hess, Carr/Lalane and probably Peraza. The Yankees could always trade for the cheaper David Bednar instead.
Feel like it’s gotta be Abel or Miller
Alright, now we’re really moving.
Should be a substantial return for Minny.
As a Cleveland fan, sucks to know that this is what we probably would’ve gotten for Clase as I truly believe he was going to be traded. Philly was always the club I thought we’d trade him to.
Now we get to watch these prospects in Minnesota. Ugh!
I hope you’re kidding. First, you can’t look at it this way, as no one could have foreseen Clase’s perfidy.. Second, were Clase still active, this would be an AWFUL return for Cleveland. Maybe for a MIN team that was quitting, or doubting Duran’s ability going forward, but Clase was pitching for a competitive team, working on a KNOWN, COST-CONTROLLED contract (which Duran wasn’t). An 18 year old catcher wasn’t going to do any good for CLE over the remaining years of Clase’s contract, and Abel is just another maybe starting pitcher, and CLE has plenty of those. Crying over spilled milk the way you are is wasted emotion. CLE would never have dealt Clase for that “haul” unless the front office was clairvoyant.. Cleveland’s pen is terribly fragile without Clase anchoring the back end and this sort of deal wouldn’t have helped Cleveland be better at all.
I know they don’t give time stamps down to the minute, but I posted this before the return was known. Also, I’m not suggesting that the Cleveland front office should have read the tea leaves and known he was going to be placed on leave. That’s stupid. I’m lamenting the fact that Clase put the team I love and have rooted for my entire life in this position.
You can call it crying over spilled milk or wasted emotion all you want, but be honest with yourself. Isn’t sports as a whole “wasted emotion”? We all happily do it because we love our teams and we root for them to succeed, but other than satisfaction, we get nothing out of it other than lighter wallets.
Honestly that seems almost reasonable. A lot of course with Abel, but still.
Tait and Abel and I can live with it. Dombrowski needs to get his right handed power bat now and then he and I can call it a day.
Crazy how this app used to break news or have the top stories asap.
This app has never broken any news. It doesn’t have reporters. It’s role is to gather news from actual reporters and broadcast it all in one place.
It is streamlining all the reports together. Its useful for people without social media.
MLBTR still has the top stories asap. They are darned good at what they do.
Yeah MLBTr will do the thin’ing round here Eh Baba Booey.
Mets gave up just as much for 35 y old with expiring contract. Phils got 20 something elite CL til 2028
Wow
….no they didn’t…
chandlerbing is a troll who rips the Mets (and Knicks) regardless of the move. Do not take him seriously.
per BTV
Phillies gave up $23 million (Duran’s value was $25 million)
Mets gave up $28 million (Rogers’ value was $0.2 million. Oof)
lmao, Rogers value is $0.2 million? That’s ridiculous and reason enough to ignore whatever BTV says.
Rogers is a rental. Duran is under control 2+ years at lower salary and is a closer. That is why there is a big difference.
I know much more than BTV and so does Stearns. Nothing wrong with that trade. Expensive but relievers at deadline this one especially are.
Rogers as just a Phillie killer could be worth it alone:
Turner 1-11 3 Ks
Harper 1-4
Realmuto 0-5 4 Ks
Bohm 0-5 1 K
Castellanos 2-9 2 Ks
Stott 0-3
He can probably go multiple innings in back-to-back games against Philadelphia. That will take all of the air out of the building. Just have to walk Schwarber who is 3-5 with a HR and a BB
Nah not close.
That seems like a light return compared to what the Mets just gave the giants foe Rogers.
It’s WAY more than the Giants return. Abel is better than Tidwell, but Tait is actually the real prize. One of the best younger catching prospects in baseball. Already in High A at 18.
Love Giants return but they probably got a 4th outfielder and 2 relievers vs a catcher with good bat and a starting pitcher. Prospects so anything can happen but those are the projected outcomes as of today.
@seamaholic
Except…he’s likely NOT a catcher. And that’s huge. Hitter, yes, catcher, no.
As well it should be, as Duran is controlled for 2 more years and better than Rogers. I hated to give up Tait, but he is years away and as pointed out he might not stick at catcher.
Yeah, both are nice pickups and on the upswing, but they’re light for three years of a good backend reliever.
Duran is under control for this and two more seasons. These prospects have much higher ceilings.
Ok, so Abel and Tait. Pretty nice for the Twins. Abel should be a plug and play rotation piece and Abel is nicely rated.
Agree Halos jj , your twins got a stud IMO in Abel and Tait was the icing on the cake. Twins didn’t get greedy. Nice deal for both teams.
Tait and Abel, #4 and #6 Phillies prospects per MLB Pipeline.
Tait should be higher than that. He’s a still-18 year old catcher already in High A. Massive ceiling. Sky high.
Phillies biting the bullet and going all in!
Now the other dominoes will start to fall.
If the Phillies pull off a trade for Jhoan Duran, it’s a great move, but ONLY if the price is right.
Let’s be real… Duran is one of the nastiest relievers in baseball. Triple-digit fastball, hammer splitter, and he’s been dominant again this year around a 2.01 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and elite swing/miss and weak contact metrics. Both eye test and analytics love this guy.
He’s also not a rental. He’s under team control through 2027 and making around $4M next year! That’s rare value for a true shutdown closer. On paper, he fits the Phillies bullpen like a glove, a high-octane arm to pair with Alvarado and Kerkering in the late innings.
But heres the catch… the reported asking price from the Twins is Andrew Painter. That’s a huge overpay for a reliever imo, even one as good as Duran. Painter’s one of the top pitching prospects in baseball when healthy, and shipping him off for a bullpen piece (even a great one) could haunt the team long-term.
There are whispers the Phillies may pivot to Griffin Jax instead, who’s been quietly excellent and would cost less prospect capital. Honestly, that might be the smarter play if the Twins won’t budge on their demands.
Looks like JT is staying long-term for Phillies. I’d thought they would go younger to save money for Kyle this off-season
I think they might do both.
It’s Abel and Tate. That does leave the Phillies
thin for a replacement when Realmulto goes though.
Tait was not going to be an immediate heir to realmuto in any case.
That may be a couple years down the road. Looking at the catchers available in free agency going into 2026, Realmuto is probably still their best option, assuming he wants to remain in Philadelphia.
If nothing else, his defense is still good. His offensive production hasn’t been so good for the year but he does have the highest batting average in baseball for July.
Does this mean a Realmuto extension is on the horizon?
I don’t think it means anything for Realmuto. Tait is 18 years old and probably another two years away.
Fair enough. Just don’t see a real “catcher of the future” type that would allow them to go year to year with cheaper/worse catchers until “he’s” ready. Retaining Realmuto in the meantime just seems inevitable.
3 years away at least. It’s no more than 50/50, that Tait sticks at catcher.
Agree
I think I can stomach this.
Great pickup for you guys Darkside. Hopefully my Yanks can get it together and see you guys in October.
Any other additions for your Phils, that you see as possible/want to see, before tomorrow?
I want a bat, LF ideally. I think they’re going to keep looking. The Kwan and Robert rumors seem real, but I’d guess they go for a cheaper option now. Maybe another lottery ticket type RP for the bottom of the depth chart, that’s a DD special. I would love Phillies Yankees in the WS though, that should be a great series. Hopefully with Judge healthy for it.
Man, you guys get a Taylor Ward type in that lineup and you’ll be well on your way. It’d be a great series, just don’t see the Yanks getting there.
I’d like to see Pham from the Pirates. He can platoon in left, and hit those lefties!! The cost won’t be bad either. Stay far away from Robert, he is poison!!
No need for Pham to platoon he is hitting like.400 since new contacts fixed his vision problem.
Incredible deal for Phillies
2nd catching prospect DUMBrowski has dealt away, this one their youngest, fastest rising position prospect since…Scott Rolen?
Dumbrowski will never shy away from trading a prospect. Have to give up something to get a player like Duran. And he held on to Painter. I wonder who he trades next.
DUMBo traded two legit pitching prospects last year to rent a reliever the Phillies did not even need so yeah, he might just be getting started dealing the rest of the Phillies Top 100.
I dreaded his trades when he was with the Red Sox but in hindsight he made great moves. He had a knack for picking the right guys to keep vs. trading everyone else.
Tait questions at being a good catcher. So far away they could draft a catcher next year if it’s that important. Dave can just trade for one when needed.
Nightingale: mariners and dodgers are going to make a play.
Reality: goes to Philly
well if it works out anywhere near well as prospect catcher trades of D’arnaud for Halladay and Lou Marson for Cliff Lee, i’ll be fine.
So the Phil’s get a closer with 2 more years on his deal for a young pitcher and catcher
The Mets had to give up 2 prospects and Butto for a relief pitcher with only 2 months left, it’s crazy.
jvent:
Maybe you should look at the quality of the players involved instead of just the amount of players. The Phillies gave up two top 100 prospects. The Mets didn’t give up close to that. The value was right.
I really thought Abel would be an Oriole one way or another. Guess not!
Phillies have Duran for the rest of this year and two additional years, that is why the price was a #4 and #6. That is what you call going all in and don’t look back. Great move by the Phillies. A Championship flag always flies; prospects come and go.
Get excited Phils Phaithful, dude is electric. Now go get Luis Robert to play CF so Marsh can bump to LF. If Robert continues to struggle vs. RHP, call
up Crawford on September 1st and let Robert be the RH platoon to Marsh/Crawford.
Good deal. Kept Painter.
That was never in doubt. D D wasn’t trading Painter under any circumstances.
Agreed, but shocked we got Duran without doing so.
Wow.
Tait’s profile is kind of dime a dozen – power only catcher with questionable skills at the plate, and years from helping the ML roster. Abel has “broken out” from being a 6ERA pitcher to being a high 4s pitcher this season.
The Giants got an arguably better return for Rogers, who is not in the same class as Duran
Oddball Hererra:
There is no argument to say the Giants got a better package. Tidwell is a reliever in the majors. Butto is an average reliever. Gilbert dropped from top 100 prospect status a while ago. They got a lot of quantity there, but the quality is questionable. The Phillies gave up two top 100 (no 56 and 92) prospects according to MLB pipeline. Most definitely the players the Mets gave up are not considered better.
Once you get out of the top 20-40 prospects on the prospect lists the designation of being a “top 100 prospect” becomes very fuzzy. 50- 125 or so is a bunch of high variance guys who have marginal gaps in future value
Look instead at Fangraphs
Twins: got a 45FV and a 45+FV
Giants: got a 40, 45 and 45+
Now add in that Butto has demonstrated more success in the majors than Abel, and both he and Tidwell have better career Minor League numbers than him.
Gilbert isn’t much to write home about, but he is close to the majors and could easily belong as a 4th outfielder. Tait’s profile is one teams consistently overvalue – young questionable defensive catchers with no hit tool. In fact, they already got one of them this deadline from Detroit.
This is not the return you demand for an elite non-rental closer. I suspect that will become apparent when we see further trades come down the pipe. It is in fact a worse return than the Pressley trade that got them Duran in the first place, and Pressley wasn’t even a closer
Wow, I didn’t realize Butto still had so much control left.
Butto didn’t have a lot of control in last outing.
Ha! Got to enjoy that one in-person.
Oddball Hererra:
But there’s no way in the world the twins would’ve taken that Mets package over what the Phillies offered them. Everyone has their own evaluation, but I certainly believe the twins got two higher end prospects than anything the Giants got from the Mets. And again, there’s no way the twins were going to take Butto and the Mets 10th and 12th prospects. Tidwell is not a major league starter. He is a reliever at best. Same thing with Butto. These guys are limited in their ceilings. Time will tell for all.
Twins lik weak Giants lil strong but both fair trades.
AI GM:
Fair enough. I read a lot of analysis why the trade with the Giants seems like a bit of an overpay but when you dig into it with what the Mets gave up, it really isn’t.
@Miken31
Gilbert average RF
Tidwell back rotation probably more likely reliever.
Still a lot for a rental. Not overpay. Relievers are in demand. Just what the market it.
Twins obviously did better except for some people lol. More years more return. I thought they would have gotten more though. But some teams give a lot of extra value to catching prospects. And if you think of the smartest teams the Twins don’t come top of mind.
Miken31:
Value is what the market dictates. Therefore this is not an overpay. This is fair market value. What the Mets gave up was a lot of name value because there’s recognition there, but I don’t think that performances are ever going to meet the value. Time will tell.
SF may unlock value in Button using him as as a starter. I think they will try this. Maybe use him in both roles
GhostofShoelessJoe:
I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried that, as they should. At the end of the day, I think he’s pretty much just another guy. But we will see.
He’s 18
Don’t care. “If he figures out how to hit and play defense we’ll be sitting on a goldmine at catcher” does not move the needle for me in a trade for an elite closer. This is the profile that produces power only backup catchers, at best.
the Giants did not get anywhere near as good of a return than the Twins
A 23-year-old MLB starter and an 18-year-old Hi-A catcher is a much better package than what the Giants got.
I will amend this because I didn’t realize Butto had so much control left. Either Duran’s return is light, or Rogers’s return is heavy.
Calling him an MLB starter is pushing it a bit, no? 6ERA last season, 6FIP this season in the majors. Dubbing him an MLB starter is having an ok 70 inning run when he repeated AAA carry a lot of water
I mean, I’ll take a 23-year-old taking his lumps at MLB over one refining his craft at the same age in the minors (this could reflect a depth issue for Philly; I’m not in the know). High-4 xFIP/SIERA tells a better story.
True, Abel is taking his lumps and can’t be written off. But he sure looks to me like a guy of whom people will be saying “his stuff plays up in the bullpen” before long. And maybe they get out of Abel exactly what they got out of Duran, who impressed no one as a potential starter when MN acquired him but turned into something valuable.
Maybe the Giants comp was a bit hyperbolic, but only a bit. The short of it is that I don’t like this deal for MN, it feels like they settled for players Phi was happy to trade (unless you are Phillies Twitter), when there were other suitors out there and even the option to just keep him into the offseason or next year
Though, the Helsley deal feels light too. Maybe teams just aren’t willing to talk the top end guys anymore, in which case, again, the solution is to hold on to the controllable pitcher rather than trade him for lotto tickets
Yeah, it does seem light. I did reflect on the Jason Adam trade last year as a comp for the Duran trade (2.5 seasons of a multi-year top reliever). Both returns (for TB and MIN) seem roughly similar, with TB perhaps taking the riskier/higher upside package. The Giants’ return seems like more of an outlier to me at this point.
Abel will go right into the Twins rotation. He isn’t going to AAA.
He’s more effective than Duran. The trade packages weren’t even close. The Phillies just gave up two quality prospects. The Mets gave up on with some potential but no where near the ceiling. The Phillies get a few years and probably will be well worth what they gave up.
Glad they kept Painter. I’m a little worried the cupboard is bare for catchers when Realmulto goes though.
Hopefully they can resign JT for a team friendly deal. He has been very durable this year and doesn’t get nearly get enough credit for the prep work he does for the starters. Apparently Wheeler had no idea Randy Arozarena was right handed.
It’s a steal for the Phillies. Can’t believe another closer-needy team couldn’t top that package. Twins got fleeced.
The Twins did ok in this trade. Abel was a high first round pick, and has very good stuff. Tait has great potential, but is a gamble at 18.
Some teams give extra value too much to catchers.
And most fans have no understanding of what a really good catcher means to a team. Great catchers are always underpaid and unappreciated, along with being the smartest and best-looking players on the team.
The reality is that teams value prospects differently than all of the list-makers. If the Twins end up being right and Tait turns into a solid defensive catcher with a plus bat then they parlayed a relief pitcher into a real win no matter what happens to Abel. Or if Abel hits his upside as a potential top of the rotation arm the same. Then again both could flame out.
Carver – Agree fans don’t truly understand the many aspects to being an excellent catcher. I don’t think the Phillies would have gotten as much success out of their pitching staff over the years if JT wasn’t in there. He really handles his pitchers well.
Pohlads suck!! Sell the team already!!!
Wow, would the Mets not trade for him instead. Crazy if you ask me
If Phillies get Kwan. The Mets better worry that’s checkmate for the division.
Did anyone read the article?…”report that the Twins would receive catching prospect Eduardo Tait and right-handed pitcher Mick Abel in exchange for their closer.”
Doesn’t seem like the Twinkies got enough considering Duran’s history and his remaining control. Should have been 4 for 1 considering the Phillies didn’t have to pony up a blue chip in the deal.
They could’ve opted for quality. The deadline was different, but the Padres dealt Lesko, Bush Jr., and J.D. Gonzalez for 2.5 years of Jason Adam. That was an all-pedigree/bounceback package that has looked bad besides Bush Jr.
Abel and Tait, are two “blue chip” prospects. The Phillies gave up a lot to get Duran.
Please release Romano now !
As a huge Phils phan, the Twins got hosed, IMHO. Tait may work out. Hope he does, for their sake. Check under the hood with Abel’s numbers. Not good.
Abel is 23 in the MLB, and any command gains would cement a 4-floor. Six years of that is very, very valuable, less so for a contending club with more immediate needs.
They got Suarez too.
This guy is a stud and was probably the best closer other than Mason Miller on the trade market. Basically they gave up their second best pitching prospect, and a catcher who won’t be ready for three years. I like both of these prospects, but Phillies window is probably this year and next year. Now they need a right handed bat so Kepler is bye-bye.
Does this mean the Dodgers don’t get all the good players?
Good to know.
Very good pickup for the Phillies. That’s a win now move.
Im glad Duran is off the board. Teams will be thirsty af for Helsley.
For Abel and Tait, I like it.
YES SIR!!!!
Gonna be extra Philthy.
Okay. Let’s get a bat.
a hopefully #3 starter and a HOPEfully starting catcher for a closer with 2 1/2 year control. Seems like afair trade to me. Not an overpay IMO
Mets Get Helsey. It’s a boxing match between Philly and New York. Blow for blow
Think the Phils got the better deal here. Let’s see if either adds a bat.
Definitely the better deal. The Mets overpaid, but at the end of the day, the Mets pen is now elite. The Phils have an elite closer, but still some weaknesses in that pen.
As the saying goes, “Thanks, I hate it.” Did not want Abel. Guys who walk everyone in the minors never work out and that’s been his whole minor league career.
Not this year, Abel has “figured it out”. He has really good stuff. He should be a good solid starter for the Twins for many years.
I don’t consider a 10% BB% in the minors “figuring it out.” That’s bad, though it is an improvement for him.
I’d prefer he stay around his MLB BB% which is 8 (though better than that would be great too)
Abel and a 18 year old catcher. Fine with that. I
It’s a solid haul, just kind of was hoping for a little better. Hmm
The twins could have done better. What did the Phillies promise the current Twins general manager in return for the future??
Good deal for the Phils and underwhelming for the Twins. This would’ve been more fair for Jax though with the Twins ownership, salary likely played a role.
A steal for the Phillies! I would have thought the Twins could have gotten a better return for Duran.
Nice trade for the Phillies
M Miller will go to LA straight up for B Miller. 🍇
Getting him without giving up Painter is impressive.
Duran for hope and dreams. Twins FO are idiots.
lol Twins are so embarrassing. Enjoy being Minnesota’s fifth favorite team for the next decade, guys.
Phillys pen held the ChiSox to 7 in the 7th.
Maybe pick up a few more relievers
Robertson coming up soon. Alvarado returning. Duran moves everyone down a slot. The Phils pen is going to be very solid in a few weeks. Still room for improvement of course. It’s not as good as the Mets’ for example.
Hoping the Padres can snag Coulombe since the floodgates seem to be opening. Would be an awesome LHP add
Great move by the Phillies. Don’t love it for the Twins.
This a good trade for both teams.
Twins get an almost major league ready potential #2-3 starting pitcher and a young power hitting prospect with Kyle Swarber comps.
Phillies get a top 5 closer in his prime with two seasons of control. Win-win
You are one of the few on here that understand the trade. The Phillies gave up a lot to get Duran.
Gave up two big big question marks with upside for a 27 year old top 3 closer in the game with two years of control left. Let’s not pretend they gave up Painter Crawford or Miller.
Objectively great move for the Phillies.
Probably a good move for the Twins too, but I don’t much care about that end of it. The bottom line is the Phillies are in a win now situation and they have exactly zero chance at a championship without a high end upgrade at the back end of the pen.
Despite his struggles this year, Abel looks like he could be a really good starter. Wouldn’t have included him in a deal for a reliever.
The Phillies gave up a lot, but were desperate for a top notch closer. The Phillies are now co – favorites with the Dodgers for the W S.
As a Twins fan, it seems the Phillies did well and likely weren’t going to acquire Duran if they tried going any lower on their end. I like the upside of both players the Twins got though. If 1 pans out, great. If both somehow do, then it’s a great deal. A wait and see grade for the Twins, but you gotta give the Phillies at least a B+.
An elite reliever with years of control. That’s key here. This was a great trade for the Phils. Twins got a nice package too, but I think they could’ve gotten more.
Fairly steep price to pay but at least they are getting a completely dominant closer with 2 more years under contract.
Win win for both teams on this trade
Kind of a steep price for a closer, #4 and #8 Phillies prospects. But the Phillies farm system isn’t one of the better systems either. Plus, they can probably just continue to spend in the off season if they need to. But they do get an elite closer with 2 more seasons of control after this season. Hensley and now Duran getting snapped up suggests to me that the other teams with relievers to sell are going to hold firm on their asking prices right up to the deadline.
STEM fan jealous PHI gets a non rental without giving up Crawford or Painter.
I will be interested to see who PHI and NYM for OF.
NYM needs 2 impact hitters via trade maybe AAA otherwise deep BP can’t save if they don’t have the lead.
I wish they had never signed Winker and used th DH spot to semi rest Alonso, Lindor. Also get defensively challenged Vientos and Alvarez in DH spot also. They should have developed a backup 1B out of ST so as to not have Alonso run out of gas, stamina etc.
I feel NYM will barely win a series and get knocked out by team like CUB or MIL. Major challenge for PHI and the big bad LAD
A for Philly. Expensive yes. But I think they gave up the weakest prospects they could. Neither is finished project. I like Tait bat but from what I heard read he isn’t a finished product and may never be a good defensive catcher but has run of a catcher. Abel I think will get better gradually eating up years of control until he reaches peak like a Mitch Keller but might not be that good. Philly doesn’t think so or I they would have kept both. You trade prospects that you have doubts about.
C for Twins. It’s a fair return. Bat first catching prospect who could because of arm be solid. MLB ready starter who needs some finishing. Very fair.
“Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic was the first to report that the two sides were closing in on a trade, while Bob Nightengale of USA Today was the first to report that the Twins would receive Tait and Abel in exchange for Duran. ESPN’s Jeff Passan was the first to confirm the agreement.” And ayeah was the first to report you can’t believe all the early trade rumors articles written.
Who cares who was first to report? Not us. These reporter pissing contests are dumb.
Couldn’t agree with you more. And most of the time their initial articles aren’t even mentioning teams that end up getting the player. This so and so reported it first is childish.
Rest Nimmo also.
Won’t be surprised if McNeil gets traded in a package to open up more ABs for Baty and Mauricio. I’d like to free up Marte spot also but he seems to keep J Soto in a positive mental mood.
I am not throwing dirt on McNeil and Marte but NYM needs some youthful energy (We’ll risk the growing pains)
No retreat No surrender
Any Thoughts???
The first trade that involved Top 100 prospects since 2023?
2.33 seasons of Duran for 2 Top 100 prospects. Not sure a closer is worth that, but Dombrowski did and he is a HOF level GM/POBO
Trade deadline trade that is.
Clearly you haven’t seen Duran pitch he makes Suarez look like a AA closer
Clearly you don’t pay much attention to other teams.
Suarez leads MLB in saves,
Has an almost identical FIP and SO% to Duran,
Has a much better WHIP and SO/BB ratio than Duran,
Suarez has a much better WAR and WPA than Duran.
Other than 2 games in which Suarez entered the game in a non-save situation and then gave up 5 runs in each game, he has a 1.50 ERA (7 ER in 42.1 IP).
There are few relief pitchers in MLB that are even as good as Suarez, let alone better.
Sorted by saves
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg…
Sorted by WAR
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg…
And still there’s not a single team that would take Suarez over Duran. Not one
Stupid is as stupid says.
You’re sounding like someone whose feelings got hurt because your child got dumped by that boyfriend/girlfriend.
Suarez didn’t get traded. Duran did. That means more teams saw something more attractive in Duran. End of story. Get over it and move on with being dumped for another closer.
This could be a steal for the Twins. Duran’s K’s have been declining. His effectiveness hasn’t. Yet. It’s possible moving to that bandbox in Philly will be the tipping point.
Lol
Yeah good one.
2023 – 32.9% SO
2024 – 28.9% SO
2025 – 25.7% SO
Seam stated a fact. You posted LOL.
You really have no clue, do you?
Declining, but from fairly high point.
Which changes what about the factual nature of the OG post? A 22% decline in K% could be considered an alarming trend.
Copium
HUGE haul for the Twins
Lol
Giants got an equal if not better return for 2 months of Tyler Rogers than Twinkies got for 2+ years of Duran.
Un effing believable.
Wow!
The Tigers s/b SELLERS in this market!
Torres!
Flaherty!
Lee!
Big pickup!
Good ol DD, emptied the farm to solve his bullpen woes! At least learned his lesson from his Detroit days, he lost out several times because his pen let them down. Imagine if he’d been smart enough back then to assemble a great bullpen to close out games for Miggy and company in their playoff run
2 prospects who aren’t finished isn’t emptying the farm. Next years draft both can be replaced. Can trade Duran and replace both.