Marc Narducci spent 37 years covering all sports for The Philadelphia Inquirer before retiring in July 2021. He covered everything from high school sports to the Phillies winning the World Series and the Eagles winning the Super Bowl. A lifelong southern New Jersey resident, he remains a freelance writer and broadcaster. Once again, Marc reached out to see if MLB Trade Rumors would be interested in publishing his Hall of Fame ballot. I am happy to do it and hope it can be an interesting topic of debate for our readers. Here’s Marc…
Each year when we turn in our ballot, we are asked if we wish to make our votes public 14 days after the results are announced. Naturally, if this story appears, you know the answer.
One thing that you won’t see here is criticizing another person’s ballot. There are so many different ways to tackle this assignment.
The other thing is that in most cases, I don’t like putting why I didn’t vote for somebody, unless they are players such as Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez, who have failed tests for steroids.
The other person I am not voting for that needs to be mentioned is Carlos Beltran, who is worthy of induction with his performance, but was the mastermind of the 2017 Houston Astros sign-stealing scandal, which altered the perception of the World Series champions. His role was so huge that it cost him a managerial job.
Last year Beltran came the closest of those not elected by receiving 70.3% of the votes and he’ll likely get the 75% needed this year. He had a great career.
The argument against my stance on players such as Ramirez, Rodriguez and Beltran is that they were some of the best players and deserve a place in Cooperstown.
Again, I can respect that opinion, while not voting for those players.
One other thing – I won’t have a very big ballot but also won’t put why certain players other than the ones already mentioned aren’t on it. When doing that, it denigrates the great career that a player enjoyed. All these players on the ballot were great and there is no need to tear them down.
One other thing is that it’s the belief of this reporter that players should be judged by the position they play. The criteria for second basemen, is different than third basemen, etc.
That said, here is my ballot, which consists of just two players.
The holdovers
Nobody from the Phillies 2008 World Series champion team has made it to the Hall of Fame. Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins (now in his fifth year on the ballot) and Cole Hamels (now in his first season of eligibility) all had great careers.
Utley led that World Series team with a bWAR of 9.0.
He was a six-time all-star. The knock on him is that he didn’t produce enough, but at his peak, Utley was among the best players in baseball.
Utley, had a six-year stretch, where his bWAR average was 7.3. During those six years from 2005-2010, his slash line was .298/.388/.523 with an OPS+ of 133. He averaged 27.0 home runs, 95.3 RBI and 104.7 runs scored.
His career 64.6 career bWAR is 15th all-time among all second basemen. Among those 15 players, he had the fewest plate appearances (7,863) as injuries hampered him during the latter part of his career, although he still continued to produce, just not at the rate he did during the above-mentioned six-year period. He is 10th among all second basemen in wins above average (41.0).
His 259 career home runs rank seventh among all second baseman, six who have been elected to the Hall of Fame. There are just 11 Hall of Fame second baseman who produced a better OPS+ than Utley’s 117.
His career slash line was .275/.358/.465. That, along with his power numbers, are very good for second basemen. He was in the top 10 of MVP voting three times.
This is Utley’s third year on the ballot. He received 28.8% of the vote his first year and 39.8% last year. He still has a long way to go, but is moving in a positive direction.
Also in his third year on the ballot, Wright received just 8.1% of the vote a year ago. Injuries curtailed what had been an excellent career.
As a comparison, two years ago, Scott Rolen got my vote, and he was elected to the Hall of Fame. Wright was, in my opinion, certainly comparable to Rolen. Both earned seven All-Star appearances. Rolen was the better fielder, but Wright did win two Gold Gloves. Wright was a more consistent offensive player.
The reason Wright got this vote is that like Utley, he had a really strong peak. For Wright, that lasted nine years from 2005-2013. During that time his slash line was .302/.384/.505. He averaged 23.1 home runs and 92.9 RBI, 90.2 runs scored and 19.7 stolen bases. His OPS+ was 138.
After that 2013 season, which he played at the age of 30, Wright was never the same due to injury.
For his career, Wright hit .296/.376/491 with 242 home runs and 970 RBI with a 133 OPS+. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting four times.
During his time, Wright was among the best players in baseball and while he faces an uphill battle for election, he will continue to get this vote.
This year’s players
Nobody got my vote from this year’s first-year eligible players. This year’s first-year eligible players were Ryan Braun, Shin-Soo Choo, Edwin Encarnación, Gio González, Alex Gordon, Cole Hamels, Matt Kemp, Howie Kendrick, Nick Markakis, Daniel Murphy, Hunter Pence and Rick Porcello.
Again, all were great players just to get on the ballot, but not enough to receive this vote.
And finally
The first-time players on next year’s ballot are: Jake Arrieta, Jay Bruce, Asdrubal Cabrera, Starlin Castro, Wade Davis, Dexter Fowler, Todd Frazier, Brett Gardner, J.A. Happ, Scott Kazmir, Jon Lester, Andrew Miller, Mitch Moreland, Buster Posey, Ervin Santana, Kyle Seager, Joakim Soria, Ryan Zimmerman, Jordan Zimmermann.
HOF sucks
The Hall does suck, but the museum itself is really cool.
The museum is full of stuff from players not in the HOF…. Rose, Bonds, Schilling, etc… all have their junk in the museum
True
You think? I’ve been there and was disappointed in the lack of memorabilia they have, its mostly just plaques. If you didn’t know the Hall was there you would drive right by it…It was definitely cool but I wouldn’t go out of the way to see it again.
You obviously went to the wrong building. It’s 3 floors of memorabilia and one hall of plaques
Ok I thought so! ..we were there with a bunch of 12 year old kids for the annual travel experience. However i experienlced 2 full floors of plaques and descriptions and very little memorabilia. But still if you drive thru downtown Cooperstown you would never know it’s there unless its pointed out either
With a bunch of 12 year olds, you did pretty good to get through a few floors of plaques without any incidents, haha.
If they made a HOF strictly for players the voters are afraid to vote in , it would be more popular.
A lot of us grew up watching Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Sosa, McGuire. We dont care what they were on. And you’re a damn fool if you dont think everyone is on something, including today & prior to it.
They let in Nolan Ryan who obviously was taking something to extend his career, but leave out my era’s version Roger Clemens for his TRT replacement to extend his career.
It’s kind of a slap in the face for our heroes to be boycotted by some old guys who dont understand reality
I think thats one of many reasons baseball isnt as popular anymore. They deleted the best and most relevant era in the history of the game.
…but think its ok to juice the ball.. lmao
Just a total joke. Sorry.
And you’re a damn fool if you dont think everyone is on something, including today & prior to it.
Correct!
So your vote next year is Utley, Wright, and Posey then?
I don’t get why people think Posey is a lock. The guy only had 1500 career hits. His closest career comp is Terry Steinbach. A good player, but I don’t anyone is trying to get him in the HOF. And the WS titles is a team thing, not an individual thing. Unless you are Yogi Berra and have 10 or something, it is all luck of where you got drafted.
Bill Freehan- 1591 hits, 200 homers, 758 RBIs, .262 BA
Posey – 1500 hits, 158 homers, 729 RBIs, .302
And Freehan gets no consideration.
Maybe he should. But here’s some other stats you can consider:
Freehan’s career Fangraphs WAR (superior to BR for hitters imo) is 44.8. A great career, maybe underrated thanks to how hard it is to quantify catcher defense. Let’s give him a bump and say 50.
Posey on the other hand has 57.9, almost exactly 13 extra wins, and VERY close to the 60 WAR threshold that launches most serious HOF discussions. Give him the same bump as Freehan and he’s at 63.1. This is also with fewer PAs than Freehan had.
And Freehan played at a time when offensive numbers were really low.
I hate using saberstats of different generations. As great a player Wright was, he won nothing ala Mattingly whose career was also shortened due to a back condition. That said, if Wright gets a vote so should have Pedroia. Wright had better power numbers but Pedie was the best AlL defensive second baseman when he was healthy. He also had hardware in two WS championships, a ROTY trophy and an MVP award.
You didn’t think Freehan’s 1300 additional plate appearances worth mentioning?
I remember Freehan getting discussed several times back in the day. Ultimately a .262 got him in the Hall of Very Good.
Joe Mauer is a better comp, and he’s in.
Posey is if mauer played longer and also had 3 rings, posey is a slam dunk first ballot
That just brings up the idea that Mauer might not belong there either. I don’t have a problem with him EVENTUALLY making it, but he did not have a first ballot HOF career at all. He seemed to me like the kind of player that could hang on the ballot and maybe eventually get in around year #9 or #10. Carlton Fisk took 2 ballots to get in and he was WAY better than Posey and Mauer.
Mauer and Helton last year were head scratchers for me too, mauer was going to be a HOFer but absolutely not a first ballot one, his career lined up with don mattingly who obviously would’ve gotten in without his injuries
As long as you believe someone deserves to get it, it doesn’t matter at all whether or not it happens on the first ballot. While it’s a cool extra bit of bragging rights, there is absolutely no official prize or distinction between Hall of Famers who got in on their first ballot and those who didn’t, nor should there be.
I agree that Posey isn’t a lock, but the argument in favor of him is that his career was SO dominant on a rate basis that it overcomes his disadvantage in counting stats. It’s the same argument for guys like Sandy Koufax, Dizzy Dean, and Billy Wagner, and even current candidate Andruw Jones to a certain degree.
While he’s not on the same level as Koufax, the argument does have some pretty good traction. It at least works for Posey better than it does for David Wright or Felix Hernandez.
Johan Santana should be in the HOF
Pigeons a tough one for me. In many ways, I do think he belongs. Its got to be more than just stats. I realize that objectively you need metrics but even numbers can be skewed and become subjective in how bn you use them (and which ones you choose). Of n course this guy would vote for Utley – he played for the Phillies so don’t tell me there is no bias there. Utley belongs in the Hall of the Very Good.
Back to Posey – he was a great leader and I believe he was part of all 3 titles if Im not mistaken. But I prefer a small hall – just for the truly elite no-doubt guys. To me you either know for sure or he’s not. Since I’m capitulating, then no. But very close IMO.
You’re right. There’s the Hall of fame and there’s the hall of…he had a really good career by the advanced numbers. The old HOF criteria still stands up above the analytics set my the non players who select hall of famers. Those number that don’t lie are:
Career batting avg. close to, at or above .300
Career hits close to 3000 or more than 3000 – this one is a hard category.
Career homers 500 or better
Individual awards – any MVPs, silver slugger or gold gloves and I believe it is definitely offensive focused, if not, Larry Bowa could be considered HOF with his fielding ability. Do I think he’s HOF no but just making a point.
Next is championships and impact you had on championship wins.
For example, Cole Hamels who is eligible for the HOF won a WS and was a WS MVP. That should be look at but Tim Raines time on the 96 and 98 Yankees was not significant enough in my opinion to be a determining HOF factor. With that said, Buster Posey was a league MVP, was on championship teams he contributed mightily to and plays a tough position and has numbers in the timeless key criteria areas that get him into the hall.
Agree Hof equals Ruth, Cobb, Mantle not Posey.
Posey was one of the best if not the best at his position for like his whole career,and one of the best catchers in the past 30 years.he’s hof.
If it wasn’t for yaddy he would have had a handful of gold gloves. Won ROY, MVP, 3x WS, 7x All Star, a bunch of silver sluggers, comeback player of the year twice, and he was a great dude. Super kind to kids and fans and now he’s running the team he played for. I’ve never been a huge fan of his or his teams (go gators), but he’s absolutely a HOF’er. Not first ballot, but he checks the necessary boxes imo.
Though I do understand why some don’t vote for cheaters. I personally support cheaters in the HOF because I don’t believe the HOF voters should be police of the game.
If cheaters aren’t allowed, why is Bud Selig the biggest beneficiary to the steroid era but also in the hall of fame?
Mostly because two wrongs don’t make a right.
Though three rights make a left
The hall of fame has made mistakes like adding Bagwell and pudge to the HOF (and maybe piazza and Ortiz and even biggio) but that doesn’t mean we should let everyone in because they made a mistake on a few players that probably did peds
Cheaters knew the rules and in my book committed fraud against other players, the fans and the integrity of the game all for more money and glory. Their resume is forever tainted by their egos and greed. Bo way I’d ever vote for anyone I believed cheated. Many people were convicted based on circumstantial evidence and this to me is no different. Players truly deserving haven’t been enshrined because in part due to history distorting their accomplishments because of this “fraud”. Just my opinion…
Give me a break. MLB was in on it and certainly profited from it. The GMs knew it was happening, The managers and coaches knew. I covered a summer league and even the college players knew what to use. Oh, yeah, and the presiding commissioner of the steroid era, Bud Selig, is in the Hall Of Fame.
I agree. Baseball sure loved the Sosa/Mcguire rivalry when it was putting fans in the seats. And keeping Bonds and Clemens out is laughable. Maybe do random tests to see what all the voters are on while voting. Get some out too. Once Ortiz got in I stopped caring. Difference between Bonds and Ortiz other than Bonds was a far superior player is that Big Sloppy was kissing writers asses and Bonds wouldn’t. I couldn’t stand Clemens but to not put him in makes the whole process a joke. There are players in the HOF from different eras that were doing drugs to help them recover also. Imagine if random testing was done in all eras. Would be many players not in the hall because of what they were taking. And Posey is first ballot. Period.
This is my perspective pretty much, as well. We’ve been told for years how players in other eras were widely using AMPHETAMINES and so forth, along with who knows what else. But no one bats an eye at that.
Now, I’m not advocating for those who used PEDs or steroids, nor do I think it was correct or acceptable for them to do so. But to keep players out of the HOF — some of whom have never officially tested positive — because of it is totally hypocritical in my opinion. Especially when, as mentioned, there are players being ostracized based mainly on optics and suspicion rather than because they actually failed a test.
If you want to keep ARod out, fine. I get it. He was absolutely the best player in the game for quite a while, but that all became enough of a trainwreck. However, Bonds and Clemens, in particular, were a) not associated with PEDs until the last bit of their careers, and b) neither of them straight up failed a test. They might have had unfavorable outcomes in court proceedings, but they did not test positive, which means that they are being held to a different standard outside the confines of baseball.
What about those that profitted from said cheating / fraud?
Would Mariano been in all those playoffs and had as many accolades without arod clemens and pettite among others? Should he be taken out out of HOF even though he may not have been part of the cheating directly he definitely benefitted from it.
Same thing about big papi would he have those peaks without manny ramirez at points in his career there.
Should Brian McCann and Justin Verlander be excluded for the fraud of the Astros world series win? If you hold one accountable for it the rest need to be as well.
And Altuve will be first ballot and we know for a fact he cheated. Voters shouldn’t be judge and jury. And Bonds was “surly”. One of, if not the greatest hitter of all time. It’s not called the hall of popularity. But that’s how it’s run. It’s shameful. I say random testing for all HOF voters to see what they’re on while voting.
I could not agree with you more. Those players that “got caught” paid their dues per the rules of the MLB. These “high and mighty” writers who believe their opinions on moral and ethics is the only one is laughable. And if they think the players that got caught were the only ones doing it, well, they are bigger idiots than we already know them to be. Guys bet, pop bills, use more pine tar than allowed, etc. Catchers frame pitches (is that “cheating”)? Their all-knowing case against steroids is laughable to me. Did they test every player every day?
If one man has twice the testosterone level of another man naturally, is that an unfair advantage and considered cheating? If a guy has TJ surgery and can now throw 4 mph faster, is that “cheating” by physically altering his body? The list goes on and on.
If someone cheated, they shouldn’t be celebrated in the hall with people that didn’t. Don’t care what drug induced stats they accomplished. Play the game right and earn it. Or not and get the drug influenced payday.
@paosfan
The hall is full of players who admit to using drugs like amphetamines on the field. Adderall/Greenies are a performance enhancer even if someone has adhd .
Lets kick all the cocaine and amphetamine users feom the 70’s out then. Also keep the PED admiting and game fixing Pete Rose out too. Too bad most boomers want to overlook the heroes of their past doing the same thing that they want to keep others out from doing
The problem with this is there are already known cheaters in the HOF and likely many more we don’t know of. Horse steroids were around in the early 1900s, and how many pitchers altered the ball in the old days?
So we continue to let in cheaters or have some integrity
Pete rose is banned.
Cocaine is different then PEDS, and also the only player that was related to that was Tim Raines
Actually, his ban was lifted when he died. That doesn’t mean he’ll definitely get in. The veterans’ committee for the correct era (most likely ‘Classic’ though he did play into the ‘Modern’ era) still has to vote him in. It’s not a slam dunk if members of that committee continue to hold his sins re the game against him.
I would suspect that quite a few HOF guys at least experimented with cocaine. Raines is just the most well known of the group.
Dave Parker was also related to the cocaine trails of the 1980s.
Medley, there is a difference between using a doctor prescribed medicine under their supervision and having illegal drugs delivered in a brown paper bag, etc. Moreover, greenies only allowed a player to remain alert, they did not improve eye coordination or injury rehabilitation speed. Today’s players use energy shots that have replaced greenies but perform the same benefits.
No longer. I believe he became posthumously eligible this past March.
Pete rose belongs in the hall yea yea yea.
Amphetamines enhance eyesight and focus at an extreme level. Not sure you understand why so many have taken them for so many years. Take a minute and educate yourself on what these drugs actually do please.
Paos: Why the hell is Big Sloppy in then. Or Bagwell. Many others also.
Daryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden also did cocaine a lot.
All of those are great points popgun. How many of these holier than thou writers reported on the rampant steroid use during the era? Many of them failed the fans at the time and I feel are failing fans now by keeping their favorites from the recognition they earned on the field even if they were boosting hormones.
Want to test a writers beliefs then ask them if mickey mantle should be in the hall. I honestly want to see a poll of current hall voters on that question. I would be fine if the voters names were withheld. There is a lot of evidence that the miracle shots he took were steroids and that he got sepsis in his hip which caused the end of his career. Not a guarantee he did but i have seen more to believe he took steroids than someone like piazza who had backne.
here is an interesting question, scherzer is probably in line for HoF but he got suspended for cheating will voters automatically keep him out because of it or is that level of cheating not considered. Also if its not what level is considered cheating?
Exactly Roll, as a baseball fan and former little league player I know cheating is encouraged in baseball. Stealing signs, framing pitches, leaning into the pitch, taking a hormone(that many modern men have medical definition deficiencies in) to maximize work outs and heal faster. What rule breaking does the BBWA say is acceptable? Can they define it since they are the judge and jury?
Plus there are already cheaters from EVERY era in already. Have a section dedicated to the steroid era if they want.
I think simply adding a mention at the end if they were implicated with evidence or suspended is fine.
Taking steroids not only directly improves some kinds of strength, it also facilitates recovery time which can greatly benefit ballplayers. Plus some folks experience more focus and confidence, at least for a while. Meanwhile some players who were cheating, such as Palmero (much like Lance Armstrong), self-righteously and belligerently denied their cheating. It’s reasonable that known cheaters should be excluded. I understand other people can and do feel differently than me. There’s no perfect answer, since some cheaters probably have been voted in, and some people don’t see much distinction between cheating with PEDs vs other kinds of more tolerated cheating, such as shenanigans with pitching and hitting. But it makes a lot of sense to discount elevated performances due to PEDs to me.
I respect that take @delivejazz. I just don’t understand where we draw the line. Is it drugs? Does cocaine or greenies count? What about a prescription for adderall?
Chris David is a prime candidate to show the effect of amphetamines for a hitter. As soon as MLB took his prescription away he couldn’t hit at anywhere near the level he hit while taking it.
How all these voters think Amphetamines “good”, steroids “bad” is beyond me. It’s all bad and not natural. You still have to hit the ball, throw the ball, and catch the ball.
Amphetamines actually have a waaaay bigger impact on your ability to hit a ball over steroids. It’s allows your eyesight to hone in and your mind to lock in.
Let me add, there were a lot of dudes that did a lot of steroids and did not perform well. Still takes an elite athlete to perform in this sport, with or without steroids.
All the respect to all the guys that did it naturally, but still much respect for those that pushed the envelope with whatever it is they used to do it.
MLB knew it was going on and encouraged it, made commercials about “chicks dig the long ball” etc.
It’s okay for MLB to promote to make money, but shame on the players for being encouraged to take drugs and hit more long balls, and pitchers to throw harder and recover faster. People forget the number of pitchers taking drugs was as high if not higher than the number of hitters. Do they get bonus points for hitting off a juiced pitcher?
Chris Davis
A lot of decent players but not hall of fame worthy.
Andrew Jones should be in. He’s about the best defensive center fielder I’ve ever seen. His fall off was just so quick. He went from awesome to suck in a hurry.
He debuted at 19. Youngest player to ever homer in the World Series. Was a great player til he was 30. Should’ve been in a long time ago
Debuted at 19? Not really a HOF credential.
Youngest player to homer in the World Series? Again, not a HOF credential, but good bar trivia.
Was a great player til he was 30? To me that is a better reason for NOT voting for him. The HOF is about longevity, not for being good in your 20s only.
Should’ve been in a long time ago? Not in my opinion. He was lucky to survive his first ballot. He only got 7% of the vote or else he would have been a one and done just like Jim Edmonds.
It proves he had an 11-year peak. He was the best defensive outfielder of all time, had 434 homers and had the 3rd most WAR during the years of his peak. Comparing him to Jim Edmonds is hilarious.
Oh yeah, how dare me compare Jones to Edmonds.
Jones – 5 time All Star
Edmonds – 4 time All Star
Jones – 10 Gold Gloves
Edmonds – 8 Gold Gloves
Jones – 1 Silver Slugger
Edmonds – 1 Silver Slugger
Jones – 62.7 career WAR
Edmonds – 60.4 career WAR
Jones – 1933 career hits
Edmonds – 1949 career hits
Jones – 434 career homers
Edmonds – 393 career homers
Jones – 7599 career at bats
Edmonds – 6858 career at bats
Yeah they are not similar at all. Except Edmonds did basically the same as Jones in 700 fewer at bats. It really is hilarious for some people I guess.
Now do their defensive analytics. Gold gloves, silver sluggers, and all stars are subjective popularity contests.
Defensive analytics are USELESS prior to 2002 or so, because all the games were not televised. And nobody kept track of the modern statcast metrics back then.
As far as popularity goes, the Atlanta Braves were the most popular team of the 90s. Or possibly second after the Yankees. But they were definitely top 2. If anything your argument says that Jones should have FEWER of those accolades.
Says who? The games weren’t televised before 2002? You’re being serious? They’re weren’t available worldwide, but local telecasts absolutely existed. You’re just making stuff up
And every single Braves game was available on TBS going back to the early 80’s
hiflew – All the games not televised? I watched a ton of games in the 1990’s, so at least some of the games were definitely televised. They even had a game of the week on Saturdays that began in 1953!!
I agree with you on the Yankees and Braves, they were both incredibly popular.
So were the Cardinals. You could get Jack Buck’s KMOX radio call all over the country. That’s why you’ll find Cards jerseys in every single stadiun
You need to learn the game. When asked who was the greatest center fielder he ever saw, willie mays said hands down andruw jones. Lucky to make it past the first ballot? Good lord
Yes some games were televised, but not ALL of them. I am not making anything up because I was there. I know there were some games that I couldn’t watch locally because they weren’t on television and we had to rely on the box score the next morning. It wasn’t until MLB Network ccame around that every game was televised.
Some is not all. There were untelevised games back then. Not many in the 90s, but a whole lot in the 70s and 80s. But there were still SOME in the 90s that you had to read about the next morning in the box score because they were not televised.
Sue they were on radio, but how exactly do you judge someone’s defense when you just hear about it? The people that watched while keeping stats were not keeping track of range factor and other such things.
7% is lucky to get past the first ballot when less than 5% eliminates you,. I didn’t say he deserved to be kicked off after the first, but neither did Edmonds or Lou Whitaker or several others.
Wondering if he means nationally televised? I would think that every game has been televised and available for at least that team’s local market for a very long time.
Hiflew – No worries! You had said all were not televised, but I think you meant to say NOT all the games were televised.
Merry Christmas my friend!
Really, they should both be in, along with Kenny Loften. Hopefully, Edmonds and Lofton eventually make it by one of the Era Committee ballots.
Yeah I plead guilty to the error. And yes that is what I meant.
Happy New Year to you as well my friend.
Prolly hiflew didn’t see them on TV
I think both should have the full ten years consideration.
Loften and Edmunds
Really I thought 2/3 of the earth was covered by water and the other 1/3 covered by Garry Maddox.
His numbers are compared to PED users that aged much more than”gracefully”
Who is this willy maye you speak of? You mean willy may Hayes? Willy maye dont know much about that’s from a time before matches were on TV like the other gals are saying here.
The Braves had a policy of letting Jones take every ball he could get to regardless if the other fielder was camped under the ball. I saw it over and over. Greatly inflated his putouts and defensive metrics. Not saying he wasnt a great fielder for awhile but it is a little overated. Edmonds did more in less time and should also be in the hall with Kenny Lofton.
Generational talent. Made CF look so easy.
Andruw should be in, but the hall is interested in compilers like Biggio who was always an ok player who played forever than players like Utley or Wright who were dominant but didn’t play 20 years. I’d rather Guidry and Lincecum, players like that who were dominant then a Biggio or Harold Baines or Tim Raines. Also, Albert Belle was a monster and should’ve been a first ballot hall of famer, but writers didn’t like how he spoke to them so they take revenge on him. His numbers were insane and he wasn’t a steroid guy. Maybe a one off corked bat issue but that wouldn’t keep him out.
Biggio’s 8 year peak (1993-2001) saw him average out to 5.7 WAR, .299/.394/.465 with 19 HR, 76 RBI, 32 SB, and 126 OPS+ per 162 games with 4 gold gloves, 4 silver sluggers, and 5 All Star appearances. That is quite a bit better than “okay.”
Why do people view “compilers” as if it were a bad thing? I’d much rather have a Craig Biggio or Harold Baines for 15-18 years than an Andruw Jones for 10.
Domestic abuse hurts his case in terms of the “character clause”.
It happened once and never happened again. I’m not excusing what he did in the slightest. But he made one mistake. I don’t view that as a character flaw.
As long as Roberto Alomar is in the Hall of Fame, I don’t want to hear about ANY domestic abuser being left off for that reason.
Looks like a weak lineup of first year players. Good enough for team’s H.o.F, but not THE H.o.F.
I would have voted for Cole Hamels and Edwin Encarnacion as far as the first year guys go.
Bud Selig took steroids and he’s in the Hall of Fame. Just because he made steroids ILLEGAL after he was finished using them doesn’t mean he should keep other PED users like Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez out. It’s hypocritical and ludicrous
how is Selig keeping steroid users out of the Hall?
When did Bud Selig take steroids? He had blinders to them but there are no credible reports of him using.
Hey, if youre gonna put the effort in to troll, might as well take it to 11.
Ice, ice baby…
If you cheated your fellow peers, thats the penalty: you dont get celebrated in the HOF. Enjoy the extra money and padded stats
So now do all the players who benefitted from racial segregation, amphetamines, cocaine, etc. etc. etc. The next generation of altar boys in baseball would be its first.
Just like our own country, baseball is a beautiful game with an often messy history. That’s okay. The fact that there has been a never-ending push to keep improving goes to show that it is in fact worth celebrating, even the messy parts. We’ll never learn from them if we try to pretend they never happened.
These back-and-forth arguments tend to be boring for everyone involved and nobody ever changes their mind. However, you did say something which could be uniquely interesting:
Please extrapolate on how cocaine benefitted players if you will; along with your take on whether this benefit should be continued.
WC if you’ve used the substance you would know why
Seriously? Rampant nose beer consumption was a pretty big scandal in the 80’s.
Why don’t you ask Tim Raines or Dave Parker how it helped them perform? Their use was well known and they still eventually got in.
@DirtyWater04
It was a scandal due to the ongoing ‘war on drugs’ and the rampant use, not it’s likening to a PED as greenies were. Was hoping for something more entertaining than a non-answer.
Tim Raines used to only slide headfirst because he played with vials of blow in his back pocket so he could hit bumps during games. Sorry that’s not exciting enough for you, I guess.
Yo mama blow vials. Or maybe it was yoyo ma, mid hoedown jam. Hard to keep performers straight
@DirtyWater04
I was making fun because you said that the players benefited from their cocaine usage. Clearly being unable to slide feet first is a detriment of sorts. It was a very silly thing for you to say and didn’t expect you to take it so seriously. I mean, comparing cocaine usage with segregation?
Taking it seriously? No, not really. More in disbelief that you seem to think one of the world’s most powerful stimulants wouldn’t provide a performance enhancing edge. Why do you think they aren’t allowed to take adderall?
@DirtyWater
For short-burst athletics which require high amounts of energy, cocaine could offer slight benefits, but they could also leads to mental lapses and errors in judgement which I think would more than offset any benefit. For baseball in particular, sitting in a dugout for three hours while on cocaine would be brutal – nobody is doing that for performance enhancing purposes; especially when there are so many other stimulants.
But as mentioned, the cocaine issue in baseball in the 80s was never about performance enhancement, it was about not wanting the PR backlash of having star players on cocaine – especially at a time when ‘the war on drugs’ was going on. Nobody cared about PEDs in baseball until the 90s.
On a side note: I once had a buddy in college who wouldn’t do cocaine unless he was drunk and needed to drive somewhere (which happened a fair bit) as it would make him more alert. I’m sure it helped, but he wasn’t driving far, and was generally a bad idea.
I absolutely would not want to sit in a dugout for a few hours on the stuff, no. Whether performance was the primary perceived issue with guys doing it or not, I can tell you for sure that there would be an advantage to doing some right before needing to lock in for a short stretch, like your buddy trying to drive home being a perfect example. There were tons of guys doing it, and I don’t doubt that most of them benefitted from it.
But my point was never to say it was on the same level as the steroid era or segregation or anything else. My point is just that pretty much for its entire existence, there has always been *something* holding back baseball from being this pure, level playing field the holier-than-thou BBWA likes to pretend exists, so it’s a silly standard to hold people to.
I agree with your point about looking at the past with rose colored glasses – this has become too common in our culture generally and has always been bad when looking at baseball.
But I’m also for keeping all of the known PED users out of the HOF. Not because they would sully it with their uncleanness, but because it’s the only real disincentive for PED usage. The fact is, PED use is likely still common place and very few will every be caught. On the occasion that they do get caught, like with Jurickson Profar, the slap on the wrist (50 day suspension and ~6mil lost in salary) doesn’t nearly offset the gain (36mil). Profar was a bit obvious, but there are many more out there.
The delusion that we are ‘past the PED era’ is the real culprit in all of this.
Everyone has an excuse or two for their favorite guy who hasn’t gotten in
I understand why you feel that way, I’m a little more conflicted. The steroid era arguably helped save baseball after the strike in ’94, and for all the hand wringing over the morality of it no one was looking to give back any of the money, fame, or notoriety they earned off of it.
Now in this day and age – yes, it is plainly against the rules, tested for vigorously, etc. etc. Anyone who gets caught in this era should get no mercy and I’m fine with that.
But there was a gray area in the 90’s where there was no enforceable steroid policy, and so many guys were juicing it lends less weight to the “cheating your peers” argument. Not to mention, there were guys like Clemens and Bonds who had already compiled HOF-worthy resumes before they ever touched a needle.
I’m still open to someone changing my mind but where I think I’m at is to have a wing for the steroid era in Cooperstown, but no busts for anyone who failed a test after 2004 when the league actually began caring about testing and enforcement – so yes Bonds, yes Sosa, yes McGwire, yes Clemens, but no Palmeiro, no Ramirez, no A-Rod.
No finger wags or blowhard hypocrites who continue to blovolate post steroid cheat. So above but no Raffie, Arod or Papi.
Having more home runs definitely helped the sport. This can be (and was done) in many ways with heavy steroid/PED use being and important factor. The term ‘saved the sport’ is commonly thrown around, but I don’t think there was ever any risk of the sport disappearing, just risk of a few dozen incredibly wealthy people being slightly less wealthy.
MLB tests more than they used to, but ‘vigorous’ it is not. It’s testing theater in order to appease the fans. In sports where testing is vigorous (like the Olympics) they rarely catch those who are cheating, with MLB, they probably catch 5% at best. On average, each player is blood-tested less than twice per year. Testing science is always behind the drugs and most drugs can be out of a person’s system in weeks at most. Even when they catch a player, like in the case of Braun, players can get out of being punished by manipulating the system.
There actually was an enforceable policy in the 90s, it goes back to our previous discussion regarding steroids when all illegal drugs were made to be against the rules and as we both know players were punished for it. But as we both agree, few in the industry cared about PEDs prior to the scandals. The argument that ‘Bonds and Clemens already had HOFF careers!’ is thrown out a lot to, but that includes significant wishcasting. We have detailed accounts of Clemens and Bonds cheating late in their careers, but do you think these two were boyscouts who would never do anything wrong near the beginning? We know because they got caught (not by testing but through legal means), and we know very few get caught, so thinking that they were clean prior is optimistic at best. It’s far more likely that they cheated a little less often and obviously prior.
Let’s say 40% (this is the most reasonable number I’ve found) of players cheated during this era, and we all say ‘they were all cheating, so it’s ok’, how should the other 60% of players who refused to cheat feel about this? It’s really sticking it to them, isn’t it? Do the right thing and watch those who cheat get rewarded in your place – this is common enough in the world as-is, let’s not make it even more common.
I’m perfectly happy with having a sub-list of HOF players who aren’t in for these reasons, but their careers are represented – however it’s worded is less important aside from a clear distinction that although represented they aren’t deserving for non-performance reasons. That said, I’d want two caveats: no induction ceremony and no entrance until after they’re dead. That sends a clear message to those who follow that there are costs to cheating. Also, if it comes out after induction that a HOFer used PEDs during their career, they could be moved to the other list.
Andruw jones hit 434 homers, was analytically maybe the best defensive outfielder to ever live, had the 3rd most WAR in all of baseball during the years of his peak, and you voted for David Wright and not him. My god. Take the privilege of voting away from writers at this point.
For real. This guy is a fool.
I know Marc personally, worked side-by-side with him for a few years. Marc is a great guy. But this is not a great ballot. I loved Utley, but I think what sets apart HOFers is longevity. Utley’s peak was HOF worthy, but his peak wasn’t close to a decade like it needs to be. Meanwhile, Andruw Jones alone from 19 to 30 was a HOFer. If he retires earlier, I think he might be in already. But having Wright and Utley but not Jones is laughable
I can actually understand his arguments for the inclusion of Utley and his arguments for Wright (to an extent) BUT then he omits someone like Andruw Jones who it would seem would meet some of the same criteria that he mentioned for the other two.
The application of his reasoning seems to be very hypocritical at best.
I can understand his arguments for Utley and wright when you consider where he lived his whole life..
@braves66
And that is what aggravates me (and I didn’t say it before). It seems his bias is based solely on personal preference. To me he doesn’t need a vote, if that is true. But I don’t make the rules and I guess he is voting within guidelines, even if I think he used his fan boy bias to influence his vote.
I truly cannot comprehend why nobody would vote for Jones. Not only does he have a great statistical case, but you think these same people who get all holier than thou about PEDs would be screaming his case from the mountaintops since he did it clean in an era where almost all his peers were juicing.
If you only use WAR as a basis for a hall of fame vote, you are the fool.
But its not just WAR – if you use any one stat you are a fool. There are plenty of metrics but to see a player in totality requires effective analysis and you should use all of the tools in your tool belt.
100% the worst thing about this guy’s post is that he doesn’t even mention jones as a serious candidate let alone vote for him.
Lou Whitaker
Whitaker – 2369 hits, 244 homers, 1084 RBIs, 1386 Runs, .276 BA
Sandberg – 2386 hits, 282 homers, 1061 RBIs, 1318 runs, .285 BA
Ozzie Smith SS – 2460 hits, 28 homers, 793 RBIs, 1257 runs, .262 BA
Two are in and the 3rd deserves to be in.
The fact that he couldn’t get even 5% was a insult and a real reason why writers shouldn’t have the vote. Whitaker should have been in first or second ballot. If he were a Yankee he likely would be
Sandberg was an unbelievable defensive second baseman.
Whitaker was an unbelievable defensive second baseman as well. Part of the best double play team ever.
Sandberg was overrated defensively, known at time for not taking chances on balls to preserve his fielding % stats
They used to cut the grass very high at Wrigley and the number of slower , easy hops he used to get were hilarious to watch. i attended alot of the games. I know, blasphemy to cub fans. That said he was a fine fielder, not great and a deserving HOF with Utley.
Ryno was a class guy and a clear all time legend. But yeah that was a scary IF with Bowa Sandberg and Cey. El matador defense
Whitaker’s WAR is 75 I think.
Sweet Lou deserves in for an all timer injury dancing the Russian splits and then not being to get up from the dance floor missing the entire playoffs
We don’t HAVE to put in somebody just to do it. I would be cool with no player going in during a paticular voting cycle.
@DolemiteisMyname
They do that in Japan. No one good enough? Why induct for the sake of it and reward mediocrity?
@OldYork-Truer words were never spoken
They pretty much have to. The HOF ceremony is all about money for the museum. If they don’t induct anyone, then their busiest day of the year is gone. And the museum might not be there at all if they do that too many times.
Yup, money and so MLB network can replay the ceremony ad nauseum
@hiflew I agree with what you said. In fact I was going to put that in my response. But 1 day shouldn’t bankrupt the hall.
Exactly. Electing someone just so someone gets elected waters it down. I hate this standard of guys being on the ballot for 10 years and whether they get in depends on how many guys any given year were better or worse than them. The criteria should be a simple you’re in, or you’re out. If you needed to be on the ballot for 7 years to then finally get in because all the other guys up in year 7 were less compelling than your case had been the previous 6 tries, all that tells me is you probably shouldn’t be in to begin with.
Agree it should be the iconic legendary careers of baseball not the hall of just good.
It was only 2-3 years ago we had nobody voted in.
I don’t disagree with that at all but there are plenty that belong. Hall of very good fine all for big hall. The hall of hey he played for a while and had that one ok year no which is what a lot of the new to ballot is going to be for a bit.
The HOF already does have an induction, with Jeff Kent going in from the Era Committee.
Era is Jeff Kent going on tour with Taylor Swift- if so they’ve got someone to wash the tour bus
baseball has the hardest HOF to get in to of the major sports.
Bravo for sharing. But ultimately the HOF is a museum, if you’re going to assemble the story of baseball you’re going to have to talk about Bonds, Arod, Clemens and plenty of others.
*slow clap* You put it nicely.
Then put a plaque describing the steroid Era but don’t let them in. No reason to tarnish or raise those guys over those that didn’t use.
If gonna do that then take out all who did steroids already in hall like pudge, Piazza, bagwell.
Pretty sure there’s something for all three of them in the museum.
It’s the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. To me, that’s two separate entities. From what I understand, their stories (Bonds, ARod, Clemens, etc.) are on display in the museum.
Roy Wood Jr had a great bit- Barry should troll the HOF on induction weekend by erecting a giant tent next door a la Pete Rose but have it be an enormous paper mache likeness of his noggin and draw people away from the museum with snacks
Even if I was to vote for 10 players this year, they probably wouldn’t include those two.
Just my personal opinion.
No offense to baseball fans but it time to let steroid user in as some in the hall were steroid user.. MLB and owners turn a blind eye to that, they practically allowed it because of the strike that destroyed baseball .
If you gonna not voted for them due to steroids then it time to get rid of the racist, steroid users already in the hall..
Who in the Hall currently were steroid users? Proven to be steroid users?
Look up mickey mantles “miracle shot” as he called it.
Pudge, bagwell, Piazza
ortiz and pudge for one
To not vote for Beltran because of the WS scandal is beyond asinine. A one-off deal that did NOT improve HIS stats in any way. Alex Cora and AJ Hinch allowed the scandal to happen yet have both been rehired by MLB teams to manage. With Cora also being involved in the Red Sox tech scandal of 2018 when he became their manager. PED cheats should be kept out, at least those who failed tests. But Beltran should get at least 85% of the vote. Minus the vote of this knuckle head of course.
He’s getting this year despite this putz
Agreed. And as long as Roberto Alomar, a man banned for life from MLB, continues to be a Hall of Famer, I don’t not want to hear ANYONE complain about a candidate’s character. Because character does not matter at all as long as he is enshrined.
How Beltran is the only person who had any real penalty applied to him from this is beyond me. He retired at exactly the wrong time, losing his player immunity. A trashtro is a trashtro for life though. Get rid of Cora definitely. Hinch was at least against banging trash cans so I’ll forgive him
So many convoluted reasons to not put or to put someone in the HOF. It’s all a popularity contest.
This guy is a gigantic bozo.
@getgone2. That was good. lol
The biggest knock on the credibility of the hall is that acceptance is determined by baseball writers, half of whom have an agenda or weren’t treated nicely by a player so they don’t get their vote. Move to a different voting system, I for one have no interest in a HOF where writers make the decision.
I wish they would take away the ability from allowing people like u to vote for the hall of fame…
Who are you to pass judgement on carlos beltran because of a small scandal he was punished for already….I’m sure you’ve done some messed up things in ur clown life…
Chase utley and david Wright belong in the hall of very good not the hall of fame…and u should no longer be allowed to vote
David Wright was a good player, but not a HOF CAREER. I emphasize career simply because he could have been, but he wasn’t. He is in the same category as Troy Tulowitzki, who also could have easily been a HOFer without injuries. Dustin Pedroia is in the same category in my opinion. Prince Fielder could also be mentioned here. And there are many others that fall in there as well. But the HOF is not about what might have been, it is about what was,
Dale Murphy also had a strong peak, yet here we are. Murph deserves to be in as much or more so than Wright.
Actually, I like Murphy more.
But you couldn’t be anymore incorrect. They are both close with wright being slightly better according to OPS plus AND war. Plus pitching is a little better in wrights era.
They are a Wash. Factor in position scarcity and what not, and the vote easily goes to wright.
But neither deserves it because neither are one of the best ever
WAR means nothing when comparing different years and different positions. WAR is different every year, it’s based off what the average player would do that year and defense at different positions affects it also
CJ, you say I couldn’t be anymore incorrect? I said Murphy deserves to be in as much or more so than Wright. You didn’t really make your case to show that I “couldn’t be anymore incorrect”. In fact, it seemed to me like you agreed with me.
I played 3 seasons (89-91) with ATL. Never made it beyond high-A, Durham then… never heard the word “steroid” used. There was plenty of greenies, yes, but no roids. Roids were not cheating at the time. In principle, perhaps morally, it’s cheating. But there was an expression back then, “if you’re not cheating you’re not trying”. Obviously looking back, there were red flags…. but it sucks when writers (and the people running baseball in the 80s and 90s act holier than thou. The HOF is already full of “cheaters”. The hall is incomplete and garbage without the morons that took roids, which was not against the rules. Enough with this already. Merry Christmas
Nice. You never had the privilege of playing AA Greenville……..right next to the sewer treatment plant. Hah
I agree that Manroid Ramirez and A-Roid shouldn’t get in, but I think Beltran should. Know who else never failed a steroids test? Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
The fact that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are not in the HOF is an absolute disgrace to the Hall and the game imo.
I can see Vizquel and Pence maybe getting some votes, but maybe being a long shot to get in. I’m not opposed to Rollins or Utley.
People keep forgetting, the HOF is NOT for great players or the best players of their era. It is for the best player of ALL TIME. David wright is not one of the best ever. It’s simple.
And the whole injury things gets lost too. Health is just as important as talent. People always say: “if so and so didn’t get injured…. Blah blah”…… And that’s the same as saying so and so would have been one of the best ever if he had just a little more talent.
Exactly. Is Beltran going in as a player or a manager? Player. He should be voted in on what he did on the field.
He was a player when he was the ringleader of the Trashtros cheating their way to a title.
The HOF has become a complete joke. Take the voting away from the writers and give it to the fans. It’s supposed to be a museum for the fans honoring the greatest players. Let us decide who we want to celebrate.
No please don’t. You think the writers are bad.
Only MLBTR Front Office subscribers should get a vote
HAHAAH
@Reno No thank you. As far as giving it to the fans Then it becomes All Star Game type Vote. Fans vote for a player they like without looking at the stats.
Give the voting to a reputable committee Made of former players and Baseball Executives.
Absolutely not. Massive dreck would get in, plus you know there would be a gag campaign to push in some mediocre player.
With fans, it’d be the hall of Yankees and Dodgers. Well, even more so…
Utley is a homer vote by an obvious homer.
Homer votes are fine as long as it’s not the only vote or keeps a vote from someone more worthy.
I think utley is fringe so I’m not upset about that
Wright falls into the what if category and you really can’t give votes to what might have been. For all we know once wright hit 30 he could have gone into the tank kind of like Murphy did.
Utley is the one reasonable take in this dude’s whole post
You should lose your ballot. Pathetic. The hall is loaded with players who’d get dinged if playing by today’s rules. High majority of that era were on something vote based on how they compared to those of their era.
I don’t care that writers don’t all pick the same players but it’s frustrating when they lay out reasoning but don’t apply it across the board. It seems like the peak matters most in this case, so how can one ignore Abreu who’s OPS+ was 139 for the 9 year period he was with the Phillies.
Abreus 162 game average is 97 runs, 19 HR, 91 RBIs and 27 SBs. This is remarkable when you think about Abreu’s durability and the games and plate appearances he had after his age 33 season (882 games and 3,714 PAs). Wright by comparison had 39 games and 167 PA after age 33. All this means Abreu’s career averages with years of decline (post-33) factored in are comparable to the 9 year peak he used to elect Wright.
And Abreu wasn’t just a peak player, his whole career was good. He had HOF seasons after age 33. Very underrated.
The Philadelphia media never liked Abreu while he was playing, so I guess Marc isn’t going to start now. The prevailing opinion, which made no sense then or now, was that Abreu was hurting the offense by taking too many walks.
They said the same thing about Joey Votto.
Wright and not Jones is criminal.
The hall of fame is a complete joke, I would bet that almost all if not all the dudes from the steroid era did them.griffey,frank Thomas,I’m sure guys like jeter,randy Johnson or Greg Maddux did too.just because you take peds doesn’t mean you get hugely buff 100 percent,look at big papi. they do it to recover faster to play more games or to come back from injuries faster.we don’t need to vote,we all know bonds is hall of fame also clemens,manny,arod,schilling,rose,mcgwire,sosa.
Heck Thomas is constantly trying to get me to buy testosterone
I’d be surprised that an Indian Territory lawman who died in 1912 is hawking supplements to you in 2025.
More like Marc Nardookie
I’m thinking no one from the 2017-2020 Astros should be voted in as long as we’re eliminating cheaters.
Your arrogance in thinking any baseball fan cares about your rationale is classic as to why the HOF voting has become a joke. Your ballot having only Utley & Wight solidified that. You had 10 possible votes & you voted for 2, possibly relegating a bunch to lose their spot on future ballots. MLB TR posting this article was a mistake!
It’s writers like you that ruin the whole process. Single out a few guys from a whole generation. And then act like you’re the judge, jury and executioner. It’s pathetic! Get over yourself
And David wright? I’m a lifelong Mets fan and that’s laughable. We called him Double play David cause he ALWAYS choked in the clutch and did most of his damage in games already decided or out of reach. He was the king of having huge games in blowouts, whether Mets win or lose. His biggest production were the games that it made no difference and didn’t matter. But when game was on the line? He ALWAYS choked!
I’m not a huge fan of the “but for…” he would have been an HOF” You have to judge a player for what he did, not what he could have done. On the margins, a transcendent peak might push someone over, but he ought to be exceptional. I’d also say let the Baines fixation go. He should never have been picked, and compounding the mistake by defining a new, lower bar is the wrong approach. I don’t think you need to be “small hall” to agree with that. As to PEDS, I’m never going to change my mind, and maybe I’m wrong, but I think it’s a disqualifier–and I’d be happy to see Bud Selig evicted as enabler in chief.
“One other thing is that it’s the belief of this reporter that players should be judged by the position they play. The criteria for second basemen, is different than third basemen, etc.”
Why does it matter which position a player played on the field?
You may have a point offensively, but defensive value at least matters based on the position(s) played.
Chase Utley has never been and didn’t magically become a HOFamer.
And seriously if Curt Shilling Jimmy Edmonds and Andruw Jones aren’t in
Posey maybe. Lester probably not. Everyone else is a no.
The man made a compelling argument in favor of Lou Whitaker.
The only whispers about his HOF failures involve personality. Other than that, and who knows what since we don’t know him, what the heck?
Whitaker easily qualifies per just this post..
Another writer who doesn’t understand statistics.
Manny and A-Rod are two of the top 5 great right handed hitters to ever play without steroids. Leaving them out because they got popped later in their careers is goofy when they already had put together HOF careers.
P.s. you must have been really fun at parties
Seems like a grouch and a Homer. Only 2 worthy candidates miles from his coverage area growing up in jersey. Why are we being subjected to his unwanted opinion?
What a joke of a ballot. You vote for Utley and David “broken” Wright but don’t vote for Andruw Jones? You shouldn’t be allowed to vote. More proof that the players should vote not you clowns
Covered the Phillies most of his career and hails from Jersey. You wonder if his knowledge extends beyond the Phillies and Mets. Yet he insists on sharing his limited insights with the broader community.
Not voting for players who took steroids while they were told there wouldn’t be testing, but voting for a mastermind behind a season wide, World Series winning cheating scandal, is crazy work.
IMHO nobody deserves a vote from the current list. Andruw Jones hit .254, Beltran is a cheater and the others aren’t worthy. And the same goes for 2027. But I know the public gets angry when nobody is voted in.
Why are you judging anyone solely by career batting average?
If you acknowledge that Beltran had an excellent career button vote for him because he was the mastermind of Houston’s cheating scandal, then you should reconsider your vote for Chase Utley. Beltran never broke anybody’s leg. All voters need to re-watch the video before you defend Utley by saying he was just trying to break up a double play. He made an illegal slide that caused great harm to another person, whose career was never the same again.
Utley’s slide wasn’t illegal when it happened (it led to a rule change that would make it illegal afterwards), and one dirty play doesn’t compare to months of deliberate cheating. I’d probably vote for Beltran, too, but those respective issues aren’t comparable at all.
Buster Posey should be a first baitot Hall-of-Fame.
If Rose is not in then no PED guys should ever be in. Schilling should be in as well.
It’s a hall of fame PLAYERS ballot. Not a hall of fame ballot. Managerial and executive work is explicitly excluded. For that reason I think Carlos Beltran should be in. He has never been punished or prosecuted for cheating as a player.
I think not voting for Manny and A Rod is reasonable though.
Wright is certainly NOT comparable to Rolen, because his career was much shorter, while as you pointed out they were comparable players during their respective peaks.
Yes, it’s because Wright had a career ending injury, but it still happened, and longevity matters just as much peak performance does.
Just rename it to the hall of very good. I gave up on the idea of an exclusive hall of legends. You just have to be consistently above average for 10 years…
A lot of Braves fans on here. I would not vote for A. Jones. He was a streak player. HR or nothing. Not a sustainable career. Glazed because he played for media darlings- Braves. Defensively good but lots of those. Maddox, Blair, Edmonds, D. White. Just not enough to be HoF to me.
As for ‘cheaters’ lots in already. And this BBWA voted for them for all those awards and in those years. Now they take a moral stance? Hypocrites.
And you’re a bozo like this Narducci clown.
He wasn’t “good defensively”. He was, analytically, the greatest defensive outfielder of all time. He had 434 career comers. He had the 3rd most WAR, behind Bonds and A-Rod, during the years of his peak.
Voting for Utley but not Andruw Jones is a sign that you don’t deserve a vote
Shocker, the Philly writer only votes for Utley and Wright. what a joke. Both are not even close to being HOF worthy. Andruw Jones is the best CF of his generation and flamed out by 30 like Wright. Why not vote for him? What a waste of a ballot.
It’s a complete joke that Curt Schilling is not in. He was a horse on the mound and a monster in the postseason.
The Hall of Fame is an exclusive club, but reporters often don’t understand where the exclusivity applies. It’s not the club for “guys I like and remind me of Ted Williams” or “guys I want my son to grow up like.” It’s for the greatest baseball players ever.
It’s baseball. It’s American. Quit trying to make it Camelot, its a celebration of the national sport. Stop playing morality games with the process. A lot of these guys – all the way back to the beginning and before – were pretty trashy people. Get over your character judgments and induct the best players to ever play the game, or it means nothing.
Personally, I think the first Phillies player from that team should be Jimmy Rollins, but Chase is a close second. I thought Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose were going to be eligible now. What happened to that?
Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren’t eligible for the writer’s ballot – under currently rules only players who have been retired for less than 16 years (5 years waiting period, then up to 10 years eligible for the ballot) are eligible. Both players will be eligible for the Classic Era ballot, in December of 2027 for inclusion in the Class of 2028.
Class of 26 was Contemporary Players (Jeff Kent was elected). Class of 27 will be Contemporary Managers/Executives/Umpires.
Jimmy Rollins has even less of a case for the HOF than Utley, and that is saying something. But I guess with all of the pretty good they have let in, who really cares?
No Bonds or Clemens……the Hall is meaningless
And I feel the opposite. If they didn’t juice it up they would’ve already been in the Hall of Fame. In the words of Willy Wonka… You get nothing.
Plus, you can’t put just one or two players from the steroid era into the Hall of Fame if you put them in you also have to put Rafael Palmeiro in who was a stud. Alex Rodriguez would go in. Maguire and Sosa both go in.
And for some insane reason you have a problem with that
Truly, insane. Those are some of the best baseball players who ever lived.
Lol
The HOF should be called the hall of excellence, the parameter to enter is not fame that could be subjective to era and market size.
Wright was a great player but his career is not hall worthy. Probably Mets HOF. I am on the fence about Utley. His numbers are great but longevity is key to any member receiving consideration for good reason. It really is ok to say there are no viable candidates this go around…
Longevity is the reason why I put Jimmy slightly ahead of Utley. But I agree it is not a great list this year.
okay boomer
David Wright is not and should never be a hall of famer. Scott Rolen shouldn’t of made it in either. Utley has a case and out of every player listed I would probably vote him in. I respect his decision about Beltran but I would of voted him in anyway. I’m glad he didn’t say some Hall of Average player like Mark Buerhle or Bobby Abreu should be in, you know a lot about a person’s baseball IQ if you ask them about those two player. Jones has a case but I wouldn’t vote him in
Rolen was a 10 best overall 3b. Offense and defense with advanced metrics included. The eye teat screamed HOF. the guy was a stud. Had a serious shoulder injury but played through it unlike Wright.
Voting for Chase Utley over Andruw Jones should make you permanently ineligible to ever vote again. Just ridiculous.
They all took things that would be illegal today and I do mean all of them during that era.when your great your going to be great regardless,for every one hof player that used peds there’s another 100 guys that did too that were either good,ok,or just never made it.and just because you got caught or didn’t get caught using does NOT mean you took them your whole career.
This ballot is sad.
The first criterion for a player to be in the Hall of Fame should be that they were–FAMOUS. Image is part of it. That in itself is reason enough for the Steroid Era greats to be there.
Writers shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a baseball hall of fame ballot. It be like letting only baseball players choose which writers were the best. How would they know?
The easiest rebuttal to the steroid era nonsense is that the baseball media frenzy in 1998 and the media was absolutely silent about it. These same writers vilifying the steroid era launched their careers on the backs of it. Asinine.
Dude was better remaining silent and being a fool, than opening his mouth and removing doubt. What an awful lot of words to say absolutely nothing. Just an absolute waste of a ballot and a credential.
This. This. 100x this.
Utley and Wright? More like Ugley and Wrong, amirite?
Truthfully, I’m sick of the Hall grading with a curve. If there’s not a good ballot one year, it should be OK if nobody goes in. Scott Rolen only went in because there was nobody else. If Chase makes it in this year, that will be the same reason. Is there a rule where the baseball writers are forced to turn in the ballot every year? Because if that’s the case, maybe they need to raise the acceptance rate to 80%.
Question about being a ‘6 time all star’. Does that only reference the original all star selections ? If a pitcher is selected to the team after 2 already said they would rather use the time to rest and 2 more pitch on Sunday before the all star game, does it really count as making an all star game?
Im a big Utley fan. I’d love to see him in the all of fame. He and Howard probably had the best 5-7 years at their respective positions in baseball history then injuries kicked in and they fell off. Howard has more resume accomplishments with the MVP and could be considered like a sandy Koufax type great that had success in a small window of time that was better than anyone.
Utley was probably better than Sandberg but he doesn’t have an mvp. Funny bc I guess that doesn’t matter anymore. Dale Murphy has 2 and he’s not in. But Tim Raines is in so… that’s conversation for another day.
Jimmy Rollins in my opinion has the best shot out of the 2001 to 2011 Phillies who played to make the HOF. His numbers and awards. Yo include an MVP are very similar straight up to Barry Larkin.
So as much as I love Utley and Howard, they fall into baseball’s hall of really good s and don’t make the cut.
I’m also a huge Utley fan but will agree and disagree with some of your points. I do think Utley should (barely) get in. Yes, injuries really hurt his career. But I don’t think Utley had quite the career as Sandberg. I don’t think Howard has any shot mostly because he was a 1B and while I don’t always understand WAR his 14.5 is incredibly low. I do not think Rollins will get there. It helps that he was SS, one of the best fielding ones all-time (4 GG and .98s%), one of the best base-stealers percentagewise all-time (BTW Utley is second all-time), plus he has 2455 hits but his career 95 OPS+ is going to really hurt him.
I can’t believe that Howard and utley “probably had the best 5-7 years in baseball History at their position. Ever hear of Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Stan Musial,, Joe Morgan, Charley Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby to name a few at those positions.
Utley is a marginal HOF candidate. Bobby Grich is more derserving, but of course he was not with the Phils.
It’s a disgrace that Don Mattingly isn’t in the HoF. Donnie Baseball carried the game with legends like Brett, Boggs, Ripken, Gwynn, Trammell, Schmidt, Whitaker and Winfield (among others). That was a beautiful era for baseball when star players were the true faces of their respective franchises and there was some actual loyalty between players and their teams.
Utley should get in. As a Phillies season ticket holder he was easily as smart a player as any I ever saw. (And I’m old enough to say Willie Mays is still the greatest player I ever saw and I went often when he was in town). I always said Jeter was an Utley type player but with him playing in NY he got all the press. I’m not saying Utley had Jeter’s career but I am saying he was every bit the competitor and was every bit as smart a player. I think Utley is borderline on getting in but I think he should get in. If his knees didn’t betray him he very well may have been one of the best 2B of all time.
The continuing snub of Hall of Fame caliber career of 2B Lou Whitaker
IS AN INJUSTICE.
Lou Whitaker merits Hall of Fame Induction on two separate, distinct paths:
1) As part of the longest serving double play combination in MLB history with Hall of Fame Shortstop Alan Trammel.
2) On Lou Whitaker’s own career merits
baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitalo01.shtml
Consider Lou Whitaker’s stats compared to other Hall of Famers:
Lou Whitaker has a higher career WAR than the following second basemen: Ryne Sandberg, Roberto Alomar, Craig Biggio, Chase Utley, Joe Gordon, Jeff Kent, Jose Altuve,
MLB Network insider Jon Paul Morosi stated on X. “WAR is not a perfect metric, but when a player stands out that much vs. peers, voters should listen.”
At this point, it’s not the Hall of Fame, it’s the Hall of Participation.
Another year where MLBTR publishes this hack’s justifications for having less deserving players like Utley in the Hall over Andruw Jones.
Stop giving this guy a mouthpiece and a vote. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Next year I bet he’s gonna regurgitate the same argument for a third year in a row for Utley and say he’s more deserving than Buster Posey.
Marc Narducci is one of the best! A great person to talk baseball with.
No mentions for Bobby Abreu. If he played in today’s game he’d be a saber rock star.
Waste of a vote
Marc’s a great person (I know him) but a swing and a miss with this ballot.. I can’t understand how people justify voting for someone like Utley (I loved Utley), or even Wright but not Andruw Jones.