While it’s no secret that addressing the top of the rotation is a priority for the Mets this winter, Will Sammon of The Athletic reports that the Mets are hesitant to make long-term offers to the top starters available in free agency this winter. Sammon adds that each of Framber Valdez, Tatsuya Imai, and Ranger Suarez would “hold some appeal” to the Mets on shorter-term deals.
At this point, it seems unlikely any of those pitchers will need to settle for something short-term. MLBTR predicted both Valdez and Imai to land six-year deals worth $150MM in free agency this winter as the offseason’s #6 and #7 free agents. Meanwhile, Suarez clocked in at #10 on MLBTR’s Top 50 MLB Free Agents list and was predicted for a five-year deal worth $115MM. Right-hander Dylan Cease jumped the market to sign a seven-year deal with the Blue Jays late last month. His $210MM guarantee exceeds the seven-year, $189MM guarantee MLBTR predicted for the right-hander, although that deal does include deferred money that lowers the net present value of the deal a bit.
Even with that deferred money, however, Cease’s seven-year pact is hardly a troublesome omen for Valdez, Imai, and Suarez. Imai in particular won’t celebrate his 28th birthday until May and that youth figures to help him land a long-term deal this winter. Of course, free agency can be unpredictable. While the trend of short-term deals with opt outs have been more common for position players (Carlos Correa, Cody Bellinger, Matt Chapman, Pete Alonso) than pitchers in recent years, a few hurlers have found an unexpectedly soft market as well. Jack Flaherty was widely expected to land a long-term deal in free agency last offseason but ended up signing for just two years with the Tigers. Two offseasons ago, Blake Snell was viewed as a shoo-in for a six-year deal but wound up signing with the Giants on a short-term, opt-out laden pact.
Perhaps the Mets are willing to be patient on the free agent market to see if another high-end starter falls through the cracks like Snell did during the 2023-24 offseason. Another option would be to move a tier down in free agency to sign a short-term deal with a player who has still shown front-of-the-rotation upside. Michael King is viewed as being a potential top-of-the-rotation arm whose years will be limited coming off an injury-marred season, and the Mets are among the teams with known interest. Sammon floats Zac Gallen and Merrill Kelly as other possibilities, either of whom would be plausible fits. Kelly turned in a 3.52 ERA in 32 starts last year, but will be forced to stay short-term by the fact that he’ll play next season at the age of 37. Gallen has shown ace-level upside in the past and is only 30, but enters free agency coming off the worst season of his career.
Another option for the Mets would be to keep tabs on the trade market. Sammon notes that Pirates right-hander Mitch Keller is someone that New York would “likely” view as an upgrade to their internal rotation options, to say nothing of more established front-end options like Freddy Peralta or higher upside players like MacKenzie Gore and Edward Cabrera. Keller will make $54.5MM over the next three seasons, while Gore and Cabrera are controlled via arbitration through 2027 and ’28 respectively. Peralta (as well as ace lefty Tarik Skubal, should the Tigers make him available) would only be controlled for one season before they would hit free agency and surely seek the sort of long-term deals the Mets are looking to avoid.
Speculatively speaking, that could make a controllable starter like Keller, Gore, or Cabrera and ideal fit for the Mets. The club already appears motivated to make moves on the trade market this winter, with Kodai Senga and Jeff McNeil among the club’s rumored trade candidates. In addition to those veteran names, the Mets have a number of young infielders (Brett Baty, Mark Vientos, Luisangel Acuna, and Ronny Mauricio) who could be made available in the right deal. For a team like the Pirates or Marlins looking to add help on offense, any of those names would surely be attractive pieces to bring into the fold.
Of course, there’s no guarantee that a significant number of starting pitchers move on the trade market this winter. If a run on starting pitching begins in free agency while the Mets are focused on the trade market, the club could find that the patient approach it took backfired and left them without a true front-end talent to pursue—or that they had to pay a premium to land one of the last arms remaining on the market. It’s a difficult needle the Mets will have to thread if they want to land a front-end arm on a shorter-term arrangement, and fans are surely hoping they’ll do a better job of doing so than they did with last winter’s disappointing deals for Sean Manaea, Clay Holmes, and Frankie Montas. Of that trio, only Holmes managed to stick in the rotation by the end of the year.
This guy Stearns is his own enemy. Go ahead, sign Morton and Cobb for 1 year and then everyone will wonder how this team didn’t make the playoffs yet again. What an egotistical fool.
Thank you, says every Brewers fan.
Yes the brewers team that sterns built
He gets all the credit and little of the blame. He signed 100 washed up free agents to find 1 or 2 one year wonders.
So someone with zero experience is criticizing a GM (who’s made mostly good moves throughout his career) for not making the playoffs NEXT YEAR is calling someone ELSE an egotistical fool. Got it. I guess we hate know-it-alls like Sterns, yes?
The Met$ are paying Soto $62M next year and won’t spring for the #1 or #2 starter they need. Sounds like a basic asset allocation problem.
Oh, right also noted the Brewers went further without Stearns than with him.
“The Met$ are paying Soto $62M next year and won’t spring for the #1 or #2 starter they need. Sounds like a basic asset allocation problem”
Except there isn’t a Juan Soto every year, so a Juan Soto is expensive.
Half the Mets trolls oscillate between blasting them for overspending then in the very next comment complain about not signing a bunch of arms. Get real.
The “they are so stupid for extending Manaea!” commentors prob the same ones who said we should get Jordan Romano and Walker Buehler.
Stearns is falling into the classic trap small market GMs going to big markets always do (excepting Andrew Friedman) in that they want to make themselves look clever by scoring with a reclamation project over proven talent and pull guys off the scrap heap. .
The opposite is a small market GM going to a team with money and spending it like a drunken sailor to impress people on mlbtr with a team that won’t be able to maneuver at all in 2 seasons time because they have overpaid vets with no options clogging up every position
That said, the Mets need proven pitching.
BTW, It is Stearns not Sterns. What has he won? He now has an owner will throws money like gin. He barely makes the playoffs or fails completely.
You’re looking at this from a very black and white perspective and even with that, you’re minimizing being two wins from the WS as “barely makes the playoffs “.
It was what the final week or a few games till the end when they qualified? I am a Brewers fan. I am glad he left. He got way more hype than he was worth. Now that is proving true in NYC. Glad he got to a bigger franchise.
Strange strategy. Fewer years higher aav. Stretch that $ out. To convince someone to take 3 years instead of 6 is going to be expensive. And 1 bad timing tj you lose 2 playoffs. Scherzer Verlander short term 40 42 million a year didn’t work out too great for them.
Scherzer and Verlander worked out very well for the Mets but ok.
Great point. I’m a Mets fan and this is what PO’s me with Stearns. Guess what Stearns, every GM is afraid of offering Long Term deals for Pitchers but that’s what it’ll take to get the best ones. Unless you want to pay $40-50 M a year over 3 years instead of $20-30 M a year over 5-6 years. You may get a younger SP who will sign that deal knowing they can get another long term deal after the 3 year overpay deal.
This is why the Dodgers are winning World Series and the Mets missed the Playoffs this year. Cohen is willing to pay what it takes, and has more money than the Dodgers. Let me be honest Cohen signed Soto, not Stearns. I don’t think Stearns would’ve signed Soto or Pete. I think both moves were all Cohen. This cheap tool won’t spend Cohen’s $$$ to make us as good as, or very competitive with the Dodgers. He acts like it’s his $$$ and he’s running the Mets like he ran the Brewers. Makes no sense as with the Mets he has whatever money he needs to spend and make this ball club much better. He would’ve been a better GM for the Coupons, I mean Wilpons.
No, Cohen does not have more money than the Dodgers. Look up the TV money the Dodgers are getting.
Wake up. I’m talking about individual wealth. Cohen is worth $21.3 B. Walter is worth $6.2 B. The Dodger TV money is nothing ($196 M 2022/2024) compared to personal wealth and the money Cohen puts into the Mets. By the way the Mets TV deal brings in roughly $100 M annually. Not too bad. When Cohen gets his Casino and all the building going on around Citi Field that will 💩 all over the Dodgers TV money. To try to compare Walter’s resources to Cohen’s is stupidity.
The dodgers are owned by a conglomerate. The Guggenheim group. And yes they have more many than Steve, do a quick google search on them.
Dodgers get $334M per year in tv money. Like el chapo said, Google is your friend
@elchapo
MLB’s competitive imbalance isn’t just about market size—it’s about ownership wealth and financial infrastructure. Steve Cohen ($21.3B net worth, $41.5B AUM at Point72) and the Guggenheim group (combined $23B+ personal wealth, $320B AUM) can operate teams at breakeven indefinitely, injecting capital without relying on baseball revenue. Small-market owners need actual profits.
The real advantage? Money management firms can invest deferred contract money—like Ohtani’s $680M in deferrals—and generate returns that reduce real contract costs through capital gains. Owners of car dealerships or manufacturing companies can’t do this; deferred money is just a liability for them.
Small-market teams aren’t competing against big markets—they’re competing against investment banks playing baseball with institutional financial advantages.
Nope $196 M. If your source is Google then you aren’t too bright.
Know your Business. Guggenheim Baseball Management is a separate entity from Guggenheim Partners. Also a group of people invested (Magic, Kasten, Guber, Billie Jean King, etc). It’s just Steve Cohen with the Mets.I’m giving you Steve Cohen’s personal wealth to Walter’s. Steve Cohen isn’t taking his Point72 Asset Management Company assets into the equation. Guggenheim Partners and Point72 are not the owners of the Dodgers and Mets.
It’s not $196 and hasn’t been for a while. This is not hard. You’re just another Joe Benigno listening 🤡
Do some research. It is. Stop wasting my time Stearns Sniff. Who the F is Joe Beningo?
I did the research and you’re wrong about the Dodgers tv money. I can’t help that you’re an ignorant fool.
Cohen and the Mets do not own the TV rights, the Wilpons do.
EXACTLY. There’s zero reason the Mets can’t sign Tucker AND Bellinger, bring in Valdez AND trade for Skubal. Sterns is getting too crafty for his own good. Just blow everyone away and take a bow.
A corporation is not going to, nor will it have access to tap into it’s profit margin to improve a baseball team in it’s portfolio. It also can’t take loans against it’s net worth to pay salaries, without the approval of their board of directors. Cohen is autonomous and has access to all his personal wealth.
He also owns Point 72 (worth $41.5 billion) and Cohen Private Ventures (worth $23B)
1000%
I feel like this guy does a disservice to his team. Dude you have the backing of a billionaire. Stop acting like this is a challenge to produce the best team on a budget. You don’t get an award for that. use your financial might do you don’t waste Soto’s best years with half a team.
Owner probably wants this. If he wanted otherwise and Stearns told him no well he would fire them. And if this is who Stearns is he wouldn’t have hired him. Stearns is just doing what he was hired to do.
@AI
You’re correct in that we DON’T know Cohen’s attitude towards building a team but we have a glimpse into his character. His art collection is well renowned to be worth over a billion dollars. He doesn’t have just one piece of art worth tens of millions he has several worth over $100 mil. Maybe Soto is Cohen’s “Le Reve” (Picasso worth $155 m), but owning the artwork didn’t stop him from buying other pieces worth $900 + million. Most wealthy ppl don’t spend that kind of money then become frugal. I’m sure he’s not content with just having Soto and wants to win a chip. Stearn has publicly said his philosophy was to be risk adverse to long term contracts and to be very data driven. Steering away from long term contracts is steering away from your greatest strength which is money. It doesn’t mean sign often injured players to 8 year deals or huge overpays but don’t make it a mantra to be frugal.
You’re absolutely correct Sterns was hired to reign in the payroll
@couch
You think the owner who gave Boras a virtual blank check which culminated in a $756 + million dollar contract is worried about “reigning in” the salary? Just by virtue of letting Max and Verlander walk in their age 40 netted them $80 million. I could’ve done that. “Hey David. Don’t sign any more old guys for $40 mil any more” BOOM!!! Just saved Cohen millions.
Nice fantasy. No idea why you love Cohen so much and defend his owner. But the owner is the president gm boss. Owmer hires people and they do what he says to accomplish his vision or they get fired or resign.
Then trade Soto . For $62 million a year you can sign 2 ace level starters who can get you 35-40 wins . Replace Soto with an internal player. What’s the point of having Soto if you won’t build around him
Soto was free. He made them $. That was the point of signing him to make $.
Well, they didn’t just let them walk, the Mets paid a sizeable part of both contracts to make them go away, Much like the $17M they’re eating on Montas and $2M/per on Nimmo.
Should he have signed Burns last year? How about Nathan Eovaldi? Blake Snell? Anthony Santander would have looked great in the OF, yes?
Dude. Sterns has access to data we don’t have. Every one of those f-ers broke down last year and would have been paid well. He didn’t want to pay Pete and what team did Pete play for? The only guy the Mets let leave because they didn’t want to pay the player was Jake (and he missed almost two years after that). Wheeler is on Jeff Wilpon and his boyfriend.
These guys have to bet on future performance and it makes sense to not bet high when the odds are in favor of the house. The pitcher he DID want to pay (Yamamoto), is great for LA.
The guy has intel. He wants to keep his job and the best thing he can do is use the data he has and make smart bets. Last year was a disaster, but the only mistakes were not bringing up McLean faster and going all-in on Montas. Other than that, he made the right choices and it didn’t work out..
Sometimes you lose even when you make smart moves, and sometimes you win when you’re reckless. Life is weird like that.
Eh, GMs can’t get get credit for guys they don’t sign, because you don’t know if an offer was made to that player.. How was the intel on Manaea, who was already there? Or the $13M/per Clay Holmes experiment? How was the plan of having Senga as an ace? None of those worked.
Clay Holmes worked out great. How many starters can you get right now for $13M and an ERA under 4. I expect he’ll be similar or better this season. He was not the problem. And Senga pitched like an ace until the butcher Alonso made the lousy throw to him.
Well said
Kermit-what data? It’s easy to find players stats. Most of the time just click the name in these articles and boom. Right there. This is baseball. It’s not a secret. You also have to assume nowadays every player is going to get hurt. These guys can’t stay healthy and on the field for long.
Snell was pretty good down the stretch and in the Playoffs. And with all those injured SP’s and a bad Pen the Dodgers still pitched well and won the WS. FYI almost all SP’s have an injury/injuries in their Careers. Unless you want to gamble and take risks signing the Manaea’s and Montas’s of the World you have to give the years to get the best SP’s.
No offense but Eppler has almost all of the good signings for the Mets and drafted our top Prospects. I’m not a huge Eppler fan but want to know what great things Stearns has done for the Mets. And don’t tell me Soto. That deal was done by Cohen. When people put Stearns on a pedestal and in the NYC spotlight he better live up to it. Especially with the $$$ he’s making.
So all the moves you like are Cohen and the ones you don’t like are Stearns’. Got it. Stearns has only been here 2 years and our player development is the best I’ve ever seen. His very first pick Benge, shot thru the system last year. Pena, his big international signing looks like a stud. Eppler gave Nimmo his albatross deal. He did some other things well. He was better than Scott and Sandy 2.0 and Brodie but Stearns is reshaping the entire organization.
If you’re a Mets fan you know the Soto deal was Cohen. He was the one who met with him and laid the groundwork. Stearns made some good Draft Picks like Benge and Santucci but they were his 1st and 2nd Round Picks. Most GM’s can hit on their 1st and 2nd Round Picks. It’s the later picks you hit on that show you are good at Drafting. Lambert may be a decent RP but that Class has shown nothing else. It’s too early to judge the 2026 class and an 18 year old Pena. Stearns didn’t draft 7 of our top 8 Prospects (McLean, Tong, Sproat, Jett, Reimer, Ewing, and Clifford). Also 2 pitchers ranked higher than Santucci (Wenninger and Watson).
If you take Cohen’s, I mean Stearns, signing of Soto out of the equation what is Stearns big signing. Clay Holmes, Manaea, Minter, Taylor? Nothing major there. Can Williams pitch in NYC? The Williams signing is good if last year isn’t who he is and we resign Diaz or another Closer like Suarez. After last year I don’t want to trust a guy who struggled in NYC and lost his Closer role to be our Closer. Listen he’s the Mets PBO and has been OK at best. But I’m not going to scream from the rooftops like you that he’s done a great job for the Mets yet.
If Stearns didn’t want Soto on the team, he wouldn’t be on the team. And if it’s so easy to hit on first and second round picks, why were the prior Mets regimes so bad at it? Stearns inherited a lousy core. Alonso, Nimmo and McNeil are proven losers. The fluke NLCS run in Stearns’ first year prevented him from making necessary changes to that flawed core. I expect more changes to come. Meanwhile, anyone expecting a World Series title next season is a fool. There’s too many needs for one year.
You’re an idiot. Stearns works for Cohen not vice versa. It’s Cohen’s Team not Stearns. Not hard to comprehend. If Cohen tells him he wants a FA and is very involved in signing that FA, Stearns will do what he’s told. Was it Stearns who threw in the Suite, private jet for Soto’s family, and all the other perks he got. No only Cohen can offer that. Stearns inherited a good core. You can call the 2024 NLCS a fluke but it was a very impressive run with Eppler’s Team. In all the talk of Stearns good Milwaukee teams they only won one playoff series (2018) until he left. His only major Playoff success is 2024. And you are calling it a fluke. Are you related to him? When will you stop sucking him off? He’s a good GM but he’s not a Friedman or even a top 10 MLB PBO/GM.
What are you taking about with previous GM’s not Drafting well. I showed you that 7 of the top 8 prospects were Eppler or previous regime. Thru last year most of the Team is homegrown except for SS, RF, and CF. Bench has Vientos and Mauricio on it. Almost half the Staff is homegrown and 5-6 of Mets Drafted Prospects will be on the Staff sometime this year (McLean, Scott, Sproat, Tong, Wenninger, and Ross). That’s pretty good Drafting by the previous regimes. Also take into account many Prospects we traded away to get the Lindor’s, Diaz, and other Met’s that were traded for. Wipe the brown off your nose from being up Stearns rear.
Eppler, the guy who gave Nimmo that albatross deal, is not the GM anymore. Cope 🤡
exactly
His deadline moves didn’t just backfire, they produced an actual odor coming from Citi Field.
It’s hard to imagine a worse trade deadline in recent memory, actually.
I think a part of this is that the Mets have built an elite farm system and several of these players will be in the majors this year. In that regard I can see why he’s a bit reticent about taking the plunge in free agency.
It makes way more sense with position players, much less so with pitchers.
Dude, at some point they want a reset on the CBT. It looks like that point is 4 years from now.
Unless Stearns leaves his comfort zone, the most likely SP options are trades for expensive guys that aren’t all that good, like Berrios or Luis Castillo, or FAs like Chris Bassitt or Merrill Kelly.
In other words, nothing to significantly improve the rotation.
Or a bigger trade for Ryan or Peralta, but that will cost for sure
He has said many times he doesn’t want to trade top prospects, that’s why I didn’t include those options.
Bassitt and Kelly would be better than last year’s pickups to be fair. Just not much. Stearns is gonna Stearns.
His his comfort zone seems to be not giving huge deals to guys who will be on the DL for most of the contract. When they’re young, he’s fine with it (see Yamamoto), because they’ll probably recover and still be young enough to produce high value.. Sterns stalked that MFer for a year, went to his games…. and did everything possible to get him.
Every front line starter we wanted last year got hurt. People wanted Burns, but Sterns of all people knew he was going to break down. We all freaked about Montas (for good reason), but the other options would have been huge contracts with the same result.
Wonder if jays jumped the market on cease and most teams are shying away from long term deals for arms
All the more reason to trade whatever it takes for Skenes. Please tell me what number one pitcher will only sign short term? An ace is what they desperately need.
You New York fans are silly willies. Skenes won’t be traded this year or next season
I do agree, Skenes has no leverage and is going nowhere anytime soon.
And the Pirates will still be awful and waste the prime years of an elite pitcher.
Good fan base, beautiful home park….those owners need to be shot into the sun.
Pirates “were not trading skenes”
Mouth breathers “what if we offer you bench players and second tier prospects”
If skenes is moved it’s very doubtful Yankees could even put up a top 5 package.
Teams should had avoided mega pitching contracts decades ago. You can hit on them but not good odds. I would guess they haven’t got smart yet.
I know Jerry when offering the five-year deal to Robbie Ray a few years ago said the assumption was baked into the deal that he could lose 1.5 seasons or so because of injury/Tommy John. I think all POBO/GM’s make that assumption now when offering the long term deals, it’s just part of baseball these days.
There’s no chance. Maybe in two years. 🙂
Union will call collusion if they do.
Cease gives me Frankie Montas vibes.
Get Paul Skenes for whatever it cost? I think it could cost more than most might be willing to believe. You are talking about, maybe baseballs best pitcher. I’ll use the language of prospects but only for convenience because the Pirates might want ready mlb players
Im going to propose 5 top 100 prospects of the Pirates choice. I could see the Pirates saying each year of control you get over the best pitcher in baseball is worth one top prospect plus one more just to motivate them.
Seems crazy, right? Well, nice things bought at a premium from someone who YOU have to motivate to sell is going to have a wildly expensive price tag.
Nobody is going to trade for Skenes this offseason or next. Can anyone even remember a single player that had Skenes talent + control + cheap production that got traded?
Cohen one of the few owners who can somewhat easily absorb sunk costs at end of contract. The marketplace right now is paying for the prime years and the likely decline years. Stearns seems quite a stubborn guy
Stearns has data on who’s likely to get hurt. All of the top guys he passed on fell apart. Obviously Montas and Minter got hurt, but at least he didn’t saddle us with a huge contract for the wounded flavor of the month. There aren’t that many young aces.
The only one who came to the market recently was Yamamoto and he went hard for him.
I understand where he’s coming from but he believes he’s the smartest guy in the room but the reality is his thinking will not get the team into the playoffs
The same bargain bin approach that failed last season worked for years in Milwaukee and got the Mets to the NLCS in 2024. The team has ample prospect capital to upgrade via trade. Let’s wait and see what they do (or don’t do) to upgrade the rotation before drawing a verdict.
I love how just because he went to Harvard every idiot on here feels threatened to the point where they cannot help themselves but filter every move through “is this what a self-described genius would do?”
And yet, you’re the only one concerned enough with his alma mater to bring it up. IMO, one disappointing season isn’t enough to negate the other 15 that were a success.
Yeah you misunderstood my comment
They are not alone. Few long-term pitching contracts work out well, so a lot of teams have a similar view to the Mets.
Cohen signed the wrong smart guy from Milwaukee
Thanks for doing that says every Brewers fan.
I simply don’t understand the logic. By all accounts, he’s right in his belief that long-term pitching deals are a bad investment, but it’s a necessary evil that’s a part of getting top-tier pitching. Sterns should be using his ownership’s financial power (it’s obvious that Cohen doesn’t have a strict budget) to sign the top pitchers and address his team’s weaknesses.
Imho, Mets should trade anyone and everyone, save for one or two key prospect pitchers, for one of Skubal/Peralta, and attempt to sign him to an extension.
His approach is eerily reminiscent of Cashman – try to acquire several good, but not great, players and add up the WAR, run expectancy, and calculate the Pythagorean win total. Cashman does, however, go after top pitching.
These guys tend to overthink baseball.
The lack of pitching depth is what killed the Mets, or at least was a factor in their collapse. Stearns has the backing of an owner that wants to win, he should really be going nuclear and getting a TOR starter this offseason while they have this window to win.
Acoss1331: A TOR starter? What do the Blue Jays have to do with this?
Alfred E. Neuman,
TOR is short for top of the rotation, my bad.
OK
TOR is also the name of the browser that allows you to access the dark net. Maybe they have very good pitching deals on the dark net?
Signing a hitter to a $750 million contract is also a bad long term investment
The problem with this approach is you probably won’t get what you want, but the back-end worry about injury (or deteriorating performance) is a real one. Gerrit Cole is a good example. On the field, high quality. But now a lost year. I wonder if the old “Lackey” idea isn’t something that comes back on some contracts.
Good. Modern day starting pitchers are overly priced for the work they do. Go 4 or 5 innings every 5 days. You’re just a glorified opener. Should get paid similar to a bullpen guy. Tired of these weak, modern day guys who can’t go 9+. Stop babying these guys.
You do realize the game has changed right? Every starting pitcher now throws 100% effort on every pitch which used to be the exclusive domain of closers. It’s way more physically demanding than it used to be.
And no, they can’t just ramp back down to throwing 91-92 mph 4-seamers to go for 7 or 8 innings because ball games will end with scores in the 20’s or 30’s because the modern hitter has also improved.
There’s no going back and the human body can only be pushed so far.
@Canuckleball
If they’re pitching max effort as a closer then they can get closer money to pitch a few innings of max effort.
If the modern hitter is expecting max effort every time, they’re ready for the velocity that comes with it but the point of pitching is to make adjustments in grip, velocity and location.
I’m not sure what you mean by not going back. I’m not pushing the human body at all but max effort is doing that.
@Canuck
Ask a hitter which they have more trouble with, movement or velocity and I guarantee you that 100% would say movement. If a pitcher can change speed, throw his pitches from the same “cone” and locate their fastball then they can succeed with a 93 phone fastball.
Isn’t the problem that an entirely different approach to pitching has become predominant…the old standard of the starter staying in the game–at least through seven, pacing himself, using the hard stuff judiciously doesn’t work as well comparatively when you can bring in a second guy to throw 99 to close out the fifth, if need be. Greg Maddux spanned two eras: He had a stretch of 17 years where 16 times he was over 200–and the 17th season he was at 199.1 IP. He got often got criticized for only going six.
This is the culture these pitchers have grown up in. Throw hard, max effort, and there are 8 arms in the bullpen behind you.
@Mikenmn
Then these starters are just glorified openers and should be paid so. If you want to be a starter and get paid huge money then go the 9+ innings. I get the geeks say that guys need to only go through the lineup twice, so if they feel that’s the case then don’t pay these opener guys so much money to do so little.
You aren’t wrong–the guy who can do 7-8-9 should be worth more than the guy who gets though five and is going to get the hook in the 6th the first time he lets someone on, Being old enough to remember 8-9 man pitching staffs, four starters, one swing man makes you think about the good old days. But i also remember Billy Martin wrecking the Oakland A’s young pitchers with that insane 1980 year. Five starters over 200IP.–94 Complete Games….
Grandpa Simpson Yells At Cloud. gif
@Dustyslambchops23
Who’s Grampa Simpson Yells At cloud gif?
yes
@vtadave
Maybe so.
Didn’t they just try this approach with disastrous results?
You can’t build a perennial contender in 1 single off season of overspending.
Turns out it might take a few years of drafting and developing while not signing on to 6 year contracts for arms that can break in an instant
They don’t have to. They have a conga line of pitchers coming up after Tong, Sproat and McLean. As of now, the Mets have McLean, Manaea, Holmes, Peterson, Senga, Tong, Scott and Sproat all fighting for a spot in the rotation. They have Santucci, Wenninger and Zach Thornton in AAA. When Cohen bought the team, his plan was to build a team with prospects and some free agents. He has spent a lot of time and money on building a top tier minor league system. Why build it if you are going to waste money on a veteran starter or trade away said prospects for a one year, Boras rental? Where do you think Skubal came from? Look what happened with Burnes. Arizona is going to pay him $50 million to rehab from TJ surgery. All the Mets need to do is resign Diaz. They have Ross, Lambert and Gordon coming up. All three have three digit fastballs and good second pitches. They can wait until the trade deadline to make a move for a starter . They can see which young guys can be traded at that point.
I agree. I’d overpay on the bullpen now by signing Duaz.
I wouldn’t mind them trying to get anotger bargain DP for depth. Think lije a Griffin Canning signing.
Harry, what you say makes sense but the problem is that even if McLean, Sproat, and Tong pitch they way we believe they can, they’ll all be innings-limited next year and to make a deep run into the playoffs these kids will probably have run out of innings. The team is constructed to win now or they wouldn’t have signed Soto to the richest contract in baseball or pay an aging shortstop 34 million a year.
The other issue with the kids is small sample size from last year. It would be difficult to project, or expect, any of them to be top of the rotation material. If you are the Rays or Brewers you have no choice but to run them out there. But this is New York.
As for the others you mention (Peterson, Holmes), they are good pitchers and the only ones I semi-trust, but they both ran out of gas, one being a reliever to starter, the other coming off injury.
-The Mets lost by one game, despite not having Manaea and Montas at the start of the season; losing Minter and Young in April and losing Canning, Megill and losing Senga when Alonso couldn’t make a routine toss to first. One win. The Mets have enough pitchers to fill in the gaps, because most of the prospects are in AAA. They don’t have to rely on “Bargain Basement” guys .With Alonso gone, the Mets can have better defense at first and with Nimmo gone, they can move Soto to left. It’s time to let the young guys play.
There’s a difference between building a solid org ane building a WS champion. When you drop 800 mil on juan soto it means you fancy yourself a WS contender, and WS contenders don’t rely on prospects hitting because a lot flame out. McLean looks great but sproat and tong showed flashes only as they took lots of lumps as well last season. WS winning teams typically have 1 or 2 fantastic pitchers to anchor them and the Mets currently have 0 in that mold woth crossed fingers mclean can someday be that guy
“Ross, Lambert and Gordon? Sanntucci, Wenninger and Thornton”? Oh, vaya. Steven!!! Esto no es lo que me prometiste!!!!!! ”
– Juan Soto reading this from his palatial estate in DR.
This fool learns nothing from his mistakes. More dumpster bargains for the rotation I guess. Oh, I know! Let’s sign Luke Weaver and make him a starter! He ought to be good for 3-4 innings a start! Sign some other relievers and convert them too! World Series here we come! LOL 😂
Smart decision. You gotta make these tough calls when you are in small market like NY with an owner who only has $21 billion
I think they’re just posturing, at this point.
Mets & SFG trying to whittle years off of a deal for Valdez.
I don’t think the Mets want to be seen as a Piggy and i dont blame them
I’ve heard it said that Stearns is one smart dude, but how does he expect to acquire a top of rotation (TOR) arm on the cheap? A trade is one way, but is the farm capitol that good to acquire a TOR? And usually a trade for an established TOR means only one year or two years of control, which means that if he performs and they want to keep him, you still have to write the powerful check.
Everyone understands that long-term deals for a pitcher is risky business, but last year’s Kmart shopping yielded a tacky looking staff that collapsed. Cohen repeatedly states that wants to model the franchise after the Dodgers. But the Dodgers don’t seem to mind gambling and signing pitchers for length. Maybe Cohen should have grabbed someone from the Dodger organization to run the club and not from the Brewers. Yes, the Brewers compete at a high-level, but a club needs a couple aces (and luck) to win a World Series. I had the impression Cohen wants World Series in addition to playoff runs.
Finally someone explains what TOR stands for. Lmao. I’m a big baseball fan but never did figure that one out. I sincerely appreciate that you used the words along with the TOR.
Most teams are
What’s wrong with the Clay Holmes contract? It was a huge success.
Ot amazes me that people still knock clay Holmes. Everyone on tge 8nternet is just a better GM i guess.
Surprise surprise, i knew not to get my hopes up too much with this “genius” running the Mets now…SMH
If he was REALLY smart he would’ve signed Burnes and Romano and Buehler last year amirite?
Schmets, yeah so i guess nobody should sign players to long term contracts…derp
That’s a really idiotic takeaway. Nobody said that. Grow up.
Ok Dad
The Japanese players should sign a shorter term deal to see how they play here compared to playing in Japan
Why would they do that?
$51 million to devin
No other tm would have been dumb enough to give him half that
With the current rumors the Padres are listening to offers on Pivetta. It’s not impossible to see a deal between the two teams.
A young starter, perhaps even Senga. Could even see a Padres pen arm being involved.
Say something like Pivetta and Estrada for Senga and Tong/Sproat type. Or perhaps something with Vientos, where the Padres play him at first. That of course would be up to the Mets plans to fill first.
The only guys that will sign a 3 year deal are going to be 34/35ish year old guys or mediocre pitchers
Some one tell this guy he works for an owner with 22 billion
I think they should hang onto Senga. He’s better value than the available SP that would take a short term deal. Spend on the BP and address 1B/DH.
A 6 man rotation will address the issues with innings limits/health/effectiveness for the starters.
Any smart GM should be ‘reluctant’ to give long term contracts to SP..they usually end up as loser deals. But at some point you need to bite the bullet and take a chance, especially when you have seemingly unlimited resources.
This is the David sterns modus operandi. Unwilling to make long term offers for free agent starters. Well, unless either they draft a future Paul skenes or Tarik skubal or catch lightening in a bottle, without ace caliber starting pitching , forget about a World Series championship. You will give Soto $750 million but not a long a term deal to a starter ? Cognitive dissonance
Paul Skenes didn’t take Pittsburgh to the playoffs and Skubal wasn’t enough to do much for the Tigers.
McLean could very well end up on the same level of either of those guys. Why would you commit to an ace when you potentially already have one for cheap. Allows plenty of opportunity to add to fill actual areas of need and not get crushed by CBT.
Mets “reluctant” to adopt cohesive, consistent plan in relation to building a winning franchise.
Yes because the plan of buying overpriced free agents has worked so well for the Mets these last 40 years.
… go on? You’re sharp.
If the Brewers are trying to cut costs, wouldn’t it make more sense to trade Woodruff?
I don’t see anything on the market worth expected AAV and length at this point. They are overvalued based on the lack of options. Stearns might be a bit anal on length, but he’s largely right. Imai is the only one worth bidding on.
Framber, Gallen, Ranger, Cease…not seven year guys. Crappy buyers market. That’s why the trades keep being suggested.
And the Mets need health in the assembled cast and innings, not necessarily and ace. I’m not a big fan of spending prospects for rentals. Pivetta is a rental based on his opt out.
Bassitt, or Lopez or Severino, etc… are not bad guys to pursue. They need innings. I would keep Senga, sign or trade for one of the above and let the rotation shake out. Maclean will be on an innings limit. More depth is better.
Focus on the pen and OF/1B
And for those spending Cohen’s money, is $340m not enough for fans…? And he HAS set a budget…of course he is flexible but there is a budget.
Your perspective is a breath of fresh air. Way too many NYers think the only way to win is to spend. They have no patience for player development. This cycle hasn’t worked in 40 years yet it’s all certain fans whine about. Stearns needs time to shape the roster to his vision. Impatient fans are judging him based partially on the results of the flawed core that predates him. I’m hoping McNeil and Alonso will be gone soon. Don’t care if Diaz is back or not.
Stearns is the dumbest man in baseball
You’re the dumbest person here
You must be on tbe Mets payroll or a close relative of Stearns lol
I get it but the strategy didn’t work so well last year as anyone could’ve told you that 20 something start stretch from Sean and Frankie haven’t been consistent since blowing out my shoulder montas wasn’t gonna work out either
GMs are starting to wise up as pitchers break down and too costly to invest long term $$$$. I hope owners all stick together and come to their senses.
Don’t worry the Pitching Lab will fix *insert random reliever/bad SP name here* and there goes another season.
Seriously, Stearns thinks he’s smarter than he is.
I dk if he’s smarter than everyone, but he’s definitely smarter than you
Phew, I’m so happy you came up with that comeback. Hope it didn’t hurt too bad!
Should I come up with something TRULY original; maybe like:
BoY GeNiUs! Pitching Lab! Dollar tree david!
Or, you know, don’t defend mediocrity and ask for better from your team? It isn’t hard, my man.
Nah, Rome wasn’t built in a day, I’m comfortable with the direction of the franchise and the rate of improvement. It’s objectively improving year over year without signing albatross deals that sacrifice future mobility.
Patient adults realize it’s not sustainable to problem solve with reckless spending.
Not arguing with you on any of things, but I am questioning Stearns as a GM of a franchise in NY owned by one of the richest people in the biz. There’s patience and then there’s acting like you actually belong. Cohen gets it, the Soto signing shows it, so I just wonder how long before he stops buying into this small market mentality.
I’m not upset if we lose out on 38 year old Framber
Love Stearns, but he needs to realize he’s not in Milwaukee any more. Mets fans don’t want to just make the playoffs. They want to win the whole thing. He needs to use all the resources at his disposal (payroll, prospects) to win.
I agree, CoachWall, that the imperative is to win…that’s certainly the goal. However, right now we have a model in which the farm system will soon be impacted by penalties from the Cohen tax. Lost draft picks, tax penalties, lost international money.
Secondly, folks forget that (at some payroll point) for every $10m, it costs $20…and $20 becomes $40 m effectively. It is not a sustainable model, even for Cohen. That’s why he hired Stearns…to figure out a way to build a sustainable system. I have to believe he gets frustrated with fans basically complaining about spending more.
There is a pipeline of talent coming up that is really unprecedented in Mets recent past…so yes, there are some obvious redundancies here and there, but never enough pitching. The reason the pen is so expensive to fix is because they aren’t developing and trusting relievers…that’s on Stearns for spaghetti model re-treading outside projects.
As far as starting pitching and position prospects, that’s an asset folks in the media/social media world throw around like they are water. What if McLean breaks down, and Santucci, Tong, Sproat and Wenninger are traded in a few deals? Now you’re scouring the re-tread market.
What if Skubal/Peralta breaks down, and you’ve already jettisoned Senga and Tong, Santucci and Williams went in the deal…now you have Peterson, Manea, Holmes, McClean and the next tier of minors…
Bottom line: Sign a Bassitt for innings, keep a Senga, and rely on the farm for depth instead of previously DFAed up and downers. Move McNeil for a prospect or reliever, and put/divide your money at first/OF/another pen arm or two.
At some point they need a tax reset…paying 50-110% penalties every year on every dollar spent is not a good model.
Pay the tax. The new real estate deal alone will net $25 billion profit
It won’t all be his profit. It’s easy to say, but it’s not our money.
Suarez, Valdez, and Imai are likely all getting 5 or 6 years.
My Mets collapsed last year because they didn’t have enough pitchers who could go more than 4-5 innings. Maybe he thinks he can find that without spending big. I doubt it but we’ll see
Mutts should go get Imai and thats it as big fish. Then get Bassit or someone like him cheap if you dont believe in Holmes health
IMAI/ SENGA/Holmes/plus the young guns should be enough to win and stay cheap enough resource wise.
Then No Soup for You then Mr. Stearns
The more I look at these pitchers’ names, stats and dollars, the better Merrill Kelly looks. Probably won’t be very good past 2 years; perhaps they can offer him 2 with a buyout of year 3. Pitched 184 innings at a 117 ERA+ last year, and also had a career high SO/BB of 3.48.
He turned 37 this off-season. So the right short term deal might do the trick. Not an ace, but better than what they rolled out last year. And he won’t be blocking prospects for very long.