Bengie Molina rejected a $5MM offer from the Mets and chose instead to take a one-year $4.5MM deal to return to San Francisco. The move, which is now official, increases the likelihood that top prospect Buster Posey will start the season back in the minors.
Molina returns to the Bay Area despite reports that GM Brian Sabean said he believed the backstop had received a multi-year offer elsewhere. Molina, whose brother Jose is still a free agent, earned $16MM as part of the three year deal he signed with San Francisco back in 2007. He hit .278/.302/.440 with 55 homers while with the Giants.
Now, the Giants have reached their payroll limit, tweets ESPN.com's Buster Olney.
Dennis O'Donnell of CBS 5 Sports first reported the deal and SI.com's Jon Heyman added that Molina turned down a superior offer from the Mets.
Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.
Wow, he must really not have wanted to play in New York…
Say it ain’t so!
HALLEJULAH, HALLEJULAH, HALLEJULAH………
LOL, thank you Brian Sabean.
-Signed,
Mets fans.
I should note I don’t think this is a mistake by Sabean… Molina at 1 year for that price is very reasonable, even though I don’t think hes particularly good. But the only way Bengie was coming to NY was on a multi-year deal, which would have been awful.
I don’t think he is saying is a bad deal, its just thanks for signing him period. A lot of Mets fans didn’t want Molina, besides there are other option that might produce the same
Im not a mets fan but im glade to see he didnt sign
with the mets…
I agree. Oh that crafty Sabean … got him for one year at a little over half his projected arb figure of $8M, and 75% of the $6M they gave him last season.
AND, he’ll probably bat 7th this year. Well played, Brian!
He’ll bat 5th
he’ll most likely hit towards the lower part of the order. the meat of the order ( no pun intended) will likely be huff sandoval derosa molina as the 3-4-5-6 , but really what bochy’s gonna put out is anyone’s guess.
better national league hitting catchers? not to many….
slow down the baseline, but a fan favorite….
Going off last years numbers, I’d say Montero, McCann, Yadier, Iannetta, and Baker were all NL catchers who had better seasons.
I’m in S Fla, Baker was not an every day C, even in the Marlins eyes, so no, you wrong. McCann is a hitter but not a good receiver. If Yadier is so good, then why did St Louis have to trade for Holiday to bat behind Albert. You can not just look @ #s.
Baker played in 112 games, that’s essentially an everyday catcher. McCann’s defense is irrelevant, I am strictly talking about their offense. The Holliday trade does not have anything to do with Yadier. You think if they had Bengie they wouldn’t have traded for Holliday?
Yadier,Ianetta and Baker ? NO, none were comparable with Molina”s numbers.Nice job Sabean.If you claim they had better seasons. Then you are clueless!
Yadier: .293/.366/.477 .337 wOBA
Iannetta: .228/.344/.460 .346 wOBA
Baker: .271/.349/.410 .333 wOBA
McCann: .281/.349/.456 .359 wOBA
Montero: .294/.355/.478 .357 wOBA
Bengie: .265/.285/.442 .308 wOBA
Just looking at the stats, Bengie didn’t have as good an offensive season as the others I mentioned.
How would those catchers numbers have looked if they were batting cleanup for sf last year…with no support in a pitchers park? His numbers are stunted by being forced into a cleanup role in one of the worst lineups in the league. if he was on florida or atlanta last year he would have hit .300 with 25 bombs. and he lowers our team era just by receiving.
Ya, clearly his average would have gone up 40 points and he would have hit more homers on a marginaly better offense in Atlanta in another pitchers park. Generally hitting cleanup doesn’t hurt your numbers, it helps them. And it’s not like Molina has a history of being a patient hitter and was overaggressive last year because he hit cleanup, he’s never taken his walks. Regardless, the other players put up better numbers in REALITY, not some made up scenario where Molina is hitting .300. As for him being a better receiver, did you not read the part where I said OFFENSIVE?
Numbers are meaningless without context. And if you don’t understand how hitting in the middle of a horrible lineup would hurt Molinas’s numbers then you a suck at watching sports. Look at his numbers in Toronto. If he were hitting 7th (where he belongs) instead of bieng force into a role as offensive centerpeice (monumental miscasting) he would have hit for a higher average. Still don’t see how being the closest thing to an RBI guy on a team that was lucky to score 3 runs in a game might hurt your offenseive numbers? Ignorant baseball nerds equating numbers with value. Molina is an offensive plus catcher with a wealth of recieving experience. So what he is slow as mud and can’t take a walk… still a valuable and afordable option.
I understand that hitting in a weak lineup hurts Molina’s numbers, I’m not an idiot. Obviously his numbers would be better if he was on a good offensive team or a better hitters park. But to say that his average would jump 40 points and he’d hit more homers just because they move him in the lineup is ridiculous. And for the millionth (and hopefully final) time, I never said Molina was a terrible catcher. He’s not. Just like you said, he’s an affordable option and a decent hitting catcher. The only point I was making was that there are far better hitting catchers in the NL, that’s it. You took more out of my comments then was intended (as did several others). Please read everything before you start making assumptions.
quite right. I meant to say free agent…
Molina was the only Type A free agent catcher this off season. ‘Nuff said.
So that means he was the best catcher on the FA market, which isn’t saying much. None of the guys I mentioned are free agents.
I realize that none of those players you mentioned are free agents, that’s my point. How would you expect the Giants to obtain any of the catchers you mentioned? If you are merely saying that Benji is not the best hitting catcher in the NL, then I say “Duh” to you sir. What about defense?
The Giants got the best catcher available. Who happened to have been their catcher last year, and who happened to call great games for our pitching staff. It’s not always by the numbers, my friend. Molina adds so much to the Giants that cant be placed in a stat column…
And I would agree with all of that. My original comment was a response to someone who said he’s one of the best hitting catchers in the NL, but he later clarified that he meant out of the available free agents.
thank you indeed. he is slow but has great contact and doesn’t have the pressure of being our cleanup hitter anymore so he should put up better numbers in 2010.
i’m still interested to start seeing posey play. i hear its because of his defense, thats not ready for the show yet…
This move only makes sense if Minaya uses said allocated money towards other assets (bullpen, rotation, 1B)
That huge sign of relief is the millions of Mets fans.
Who needs that tub of lard clogging up the bases.
This is a major win for the mets
^ This is a save face move, used by Mets fans to hide the shame in their inability to sign the best catcher on the free agent market.
Not only did I see a bunch of met fans celebrating on signing both Bay and soon Molina about a month ago, but you can watch the Mets MLB videos and hear them talk about how close they are to signing him a day before the Giants snatched him.
Furthermore, get ready for another awesome year in pitching for the Giants because the guy who caught both of Lincecums Cy young seasons is back… and that might be his most valuable weapon. Benji can clog the basepaths in SF anytime.
what??
YAY.. OR NO.. IDK
nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Wow that is some funny as heck. I am glad to see him back. I mean he did catch the Cy Young award winner back to back seasons primarily. I guess that is value you just cannot measure!
It’s more like the Cy Young Award winner happened to pitch to him.
Cy Young winner always have good receivers. That helps them win. Call him fat all you want but he is/was a very good receiver, BUT AT HIS AGE 2009 COULD HAVE BEEN HIS LAST GOOD YR. We still need a C.
i know! he is valuable because he had a teammate that is really good! joe thurston sat on the same bench as albert pujols last year! good thing the braves recognized such intangible value before he got away!
yeah Molina made Lincecum, right?
He is solid, I wish Russell Martin put up his numbers.
6-4-3
He will not be the cleanup hitter anymore…he will be down 7/8 where he belongs
Agreed
i dont think he was referring to the batting order…
im guessing it was more of a “he’s slow and will hit into a lot of double plays”
Agreed. Altho I too missed the 6-4-3 double play reference lol.
As in 6-4 300 pounds? I think he’s a little shorter
Splash!
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Glad we could bring him back on a 1 year deal, stopgap until Posey’s ready. Hopefully he’s working on his speed this offseason.
If you believe that, there’s a bridge in brooklyn I’d like to sell you. This is a year wasted in AAA for a Posey in favor of an old, slow, one-dimensional hacker with decaying defense who is represents everything endemic in the Giants offensive woes last year.
A waste of $4.5 million.
A bridge in brooklyn you’d like to sell me. Quit being so melodramatic. Posey hasn’t even called a full season behind the plate. He needs more experience. Btw I like your use of endemic. You and Ralph Barbieri would get along great.
Not to mention the fact he just completed a well below-average winterball campaign.
Posey is going back to AAA because he’s not ready for the bigs.
Posey’s FALL league campaign came on the tail end of his first full season in the minors, and he was worn out. If you read the reports, scouts agreed that he looked tired, and needed a break. He still has one of the best pure swings of anyone in the minor leagues, and will perform better when he’s well rested. If Posey is lacking in anything, it’s game-calling against major league hitters, which is something he will not get in AAA. Signing some other vagabond veteran catcher at least lets Posey travel with the team to start learning these things. Molina effectively pushes him back to AAA, where he has nothing left to prove and will get lots of practice blocking balls in the dirt from inferior pitchers and throwing out lots of bad base stealers.
If the Giants weren’t ready to start him at the Major League level in 2010, then they would have signed a catcher earlier. With Bochy holding the lineup card, expect another season of an overworked Molina, with the occasional dash of Whiteside. Signing Calero to the bullpen would have been a better deal.
It’s a well-known expression; I like your use of melodramatic.
Show me some proof that Molina isn’t everything I just pointed out, and I’ll gladly retract my statement.
I’m actually more interested in the bridge you have for sale to be honest.
I don’t really understand the big deal. The Giants were gonna sign someone. Whether it be Torrealba, or Barajas, or Jose Molina, they were gonna have to pay a little bit. Heck, Pudge got 6 million over two years. Posey isn’t ready. Remember how low in the farm system he started in last season.
I will be the first person to say that Bengie is a below average defensive backstop. Yes, he travels at the speed of smell, but he does do some things well. He hit well in clutch situations. He hit 20 bombs hitting cleanup for a team that sported Randy Winn in the three hole for like half the year. He will hit probably six for SF. And, he does call a decent game.
That lineup wouldn’t be scary, but it’s scarier than the last few seasons.
Oh, PS: Relief pitchers are much, much, much easier to come by than catchers. I like Calero, but they could find a cheaper alternative.
the only speed bengie will be working on is pie eating speed
Nelson got the joke. And the pie eating comment made me laugh.
Why would he have to work on that? He’s probably the champ at it already =)
giants got a pretty good offensive line up now
rowand
sanchez
panda
derosa
huff
molina
renteria
schierholtz
pitcher
not amazing..but it could get the job done.
maybe if your playing in a d3 collegiate league
yes, if ‘pretty good’ = bottom 5 in all of baseball
That may be the most uninspiring lineup outside of San Diego…
A leadoff man who gets on base 32% of the time, a #2 man who will hit an empty .290 and draw just a handful of walks, an ALL-STAR type at 3B, a very uninspiring middle of the order, and three automatic outs.
Buster Posey rookie of the year 2011.
HA take that mets fans!!!
Gladly!
Wow if this and the Delgado rumor are true then I wonder what direction the Mets are going now.
Molina sucks. His defense is overrated, he’s living off his reputation. His hitting is awful. 285 OBP is pathetic. Even the sabremetrics whipping boy Juan Pierre has a better OBP than that.
Delgado is a DH at this point in his career. He’s useless to the Mets if he can’t play 1B.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH GOD YES!!!!!!! Such a wonderful day for Mets fans!!!! Thank you so much Giants!!!!!
LOL…
He really does not like NY .I am sure Omar will try again next off season
What for? Thole might well be ready by then!
WOW lol.
If its true Delgado signed with the Blue Jays then the Mets are upset today.
They should have signed LaRoche.
they should get Branyan
No Mets fan is upset about Molina… in fact, it’s the exact opposite, we’re rejoicing..
As for Delgado… eh.
was more referring to the organization. Do they really need a top 10 catcher though? They have Reyes, Bay, Beltran, and Wright thats a pretty good core for their offense and the others arent exactly slouches
Mets = Epic Fail
Who is their 2010 catcher?
Henry Blanco? Omir Santos?
Good Luck…
If they don’t sign Delgado (or another big bat), then their team entering 2010 will be WORSE than their team entering 2009.
Bengie might not be a great catcher, but he is a hell of a lot better than what they have.
guess the Mets can sign Jose Molina and Jason Giambi!
the mets should get after sheets and pinero..ASAP!!
Sheets and Pinero, which one is going to catch?
No Molina and no Delgado for the Mets..
As a Braves fan I’m just waiting to read “Dodgers sign Joel Piniero”..
I understand the sentiment as an NL East rival but you got a little ahead of yourself there. From the looks of it, Delgado may well be back (the question is: SHOULD he be? I kinda doubt it).
I think this maybe a great signing. You can bat Bengie where he belongs (6 or 7) with the additions of Huff and DeRosa. I think Bengie know this year will include Posey at some point and that he is also here to be a mentor might change his attitude and may keep him healthier. A healthy Bengie has proven to be a productive Bengie so it may end up being win, win for both he and Posey. Hopefully that translates into wins for the Giants.
Wow didnt see this one coming!? Bringing Molina back could do some good things for the Giants again this season. Not being the number four hitter will take the pressure off of him. This is a great move because let’s say that Molina returns to form the last three years, that means the Giants have a pretty good offensive club as of now. If the Giants fall out of contention by the All-Star break you trade Molina for prospects, then Buster Posey comes in and takes over. All I know is, that its better for Posey to start and not play back up.
Who would give prospects for Molina?
that’s what I was thinking… unless Bengie has 18 DINGERZ by the ASB, he’s worthless.
WTF!!!
this is one of the better stories of the day…. I’ve been to NY and it’s a nice place, why can’t they get anyone to play there? I guess they need to remove that pompous moron Omar from the reigns, and let someone with half a brain take over.
Coming from a New Yorker, the Mets basically take the second to last seat in the order of importance here, just barely ahead of the Knicks. They’ll get that last seat if the Knicks ever improve.
No one wants to play for the Mets because they are a dysfunctional lot. The only reason Bay signed with the Mets is because he is greedy and values money over a chance to win.
jets=mets
That would actually put the Mets in the playoffs this season. Looks like your diss backfired.
jets=mets mean they have the same impact on ny sports not who is better
Ah, and I was thinking about current performance…not overall impact.
You know absolutely nothing about anything in regards to NY sports
I live here. I know plenty. I know that no one goes to Knicks games, which is why I put them last. No one goes to Mets games because they are busy going to Yankees games.
The Jets gained some popularity thanks to Rex Ryan. Prior to this year, they were probably where the Mets are now.
wow you def dont know anything about ny sports…. to even put the knicks last is just dumb
That implies that Mets fans turn to the Bronx when things aren’t going well, but I don’t see much evidence of that. What I see is more of them resolving to stay home. I see them become furious, but I sure don’t see many Mets fans reverse allegiance to the Bronx.
On the other hand I do see a lot of Yankees fans show up to Mets games when things aren’t going well in the Bronx, which I never understood much. Anyway, just an observation.
uhhh…what? Try the other way around…I was being sarcastic actually, I know Mets fans don’t bother going to games. But I have no clue where you are seeing Yanks fans run to Mets gamesAlso…seriously…the Knicks are like not even worthy of back-page news now. I know they are 4th in avg. attendence, but my father’s company gives him season tickets, and most of those attending are a) business corp people, and b) fans of opposing teams. Usually the big-ticket names that come into town are what draw the fans.
Let me clarify, a bit. When I talk about popularity, I don’t mean like attendance and stuff. What I mean is that they aren’t a team anyone really is happy for/talks highly about/has anything nice to say. Basically, if you open a NY newspaper, go to an article on the Knicks, and it is going to be negative, more or less.
If you want to call them popular for being a laughing stock, though, that works.
I read your point about the Knicks (about whom I said nothing, but I can say something now). I have been to one game in 3 yrs and that was only because I decided I wanted to see the opposing team. It was all about baseball the way I grew up, so no surprise there.
Nothing facetious – I was quite serious what I said about Yankee fans showing up to Mets games. It’s something I can’t explain but have seen for quite some time. It corresponds to when the Yanks are losing a lot and their fans are griping. That seems to be when they show up most to the Mets park and make a show of themselves – literally (some parade around to draw attention to themselves in different ways). I find it weird as do others – including Yankees fans I know who would never dream of doing such a thing. I gotta tell you, I keep my distance from such people. Seems they’re missing the point of baseball altogether. Anyway, that is what I was referring to and it is not new.
The person with half a brain BEHIND Minaya is Jeff Wilpon. So I’d say the Mets are set for half-wits but thanks for the sentiment.
And for the record, I’ve been to Milwaukee. Nice town!
My lineup:
Rowand/Torres/Lewis
Sanchez
Panda
Huff
DeRosa/Bowker
Molina/Posey
Schierholtz/Ishikawa
Renteria
I’m assuming one of Torres/Lewis make the 25 man along with Ishi and Bowker splitting time in LF, RF and 1B depending on whose resting or whose injured. So 3 out of those 4 plus Uribe as super-IF utility makes 13 meaning we carry 12 pitchers.
i think lewis is going to be the odd man out. sabean’s been trying to get rid of him this entire offseason
I think he’s a long shot but he’s worth a shot especially if the rumors of him working with Bonds this offseason are true. He did post the 2nd best OBP on the team and has tons of speed which is the makeup of a leadoff guy so maybe he’ll suprise us and fight his way in. If he doesn’t make the team then Torres becomes your 4th OF with Bowker and Ishi jumping where ever they can.
Oh I didn’t hear about him and bonds working out. maybe there is hope…
/sarcasm on. If he worked with Bonds this offseason, he’ll be a perennial home run hitter this season.
/sarcasm off.
Lewis was one of the guys that Bonds spent time with when he came to SF for a visit last season, so rumor can be true… Anyone being taught baseball by Bonds has to benefit ( common bring on the steroids jokes.. blah blah blah), so hopefully that can do something for the guy, cause man he is struggling….
called it in the “molina rejects mets thread”!
love it when idle speculation hits- actually, not that idle given Sabean!
Mets fans are going be really happy when Omar Minaya signs Yorvit the terrible
I like the signing. Definitely at a good price. Didnt Pudge sign for 2 years, $6 mil? So this doesn’t sound bad at all. Bengie will not bat cleanup, and thus will actually be batting in a more appropriate spot. We already know he knows how to catch our guys well. He can mentor posey, continue to play for the team and fans he loves, is well-liked in the clubhouse, and will move aside when posey’s ready to take over. Plus, like someone already mentioned, would be good to trade midseason if need be. So he can’t run or even walk, that’s what catchers are meant to do. Now he won’t be batting ahead of anyone that can hit. Oh wait, he didn’t really last year.
Nice..
Good news.
As a Dodgers fan why would you think this is good news? Yeah you can say the same line you’ve been saying – “Molina is slow, doesn’t walk, and has a low OBP.” Thats fine, and to be honest, those things are all true. But the fact of the matter is, Molina is by far a better catcher than anyone else on the market and Posey just isn’t ready yet. Whats more, DeRosa and Huff aren’t replacing Bengie’s offensive production anymore. Instead, they are now supplements, which only makes the Giants better (especially with Molina batting 6,7 or 8). So stop your sarcastic bullsh*t. What have the Dodgers done to get better this offseason?? Oh thats right, NOTHING.
You sign two garbage hitters to move another garbage hitter lower in the lineup.. that makes the offense better.
Someone who hit .304 with 32 home runs the year before last and then had a really bad year isn’t a garbage hitter. That’s what we like to call a low risk $3 Mill signing with HUGE upside possibilities. Get you sh*t straight. And Derosa in left, as opposed to Lewis, is definitely an offensive and defensive improvement. So basically, 88 wins… PLUS having Freddy Sanchez all year, PLUS Renteria likely improving off of by far his worst season ever, PLUS the upside of Huff’s power (who doesn’t have to play if he keeps sucking, meaning that he can’t hurt us… he can only help), PLUS Derosa’s offensive and defensive upgrade over Lewis in left, PLUS having a stud prospect (bumgarner) come up to lock down a 5th starter role that was very inconsistent last year, PLUS the maturing of all of our already stellar young talent (Sandoval, Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez)….. I’d call that an overall improvement. suck it.
Well…I’m still happy with Omir…but I would still like Torrealba or Barajas.
“#mets offered molina $5 mil plus. if he went with #giants for $4.5 mil, as CBS5 in SF reports, he must not have liked mets very much.”
heyman twitter
Why is this bad? Posey learns from a good catcher. Bengie can still hit 12-18 homers and drive in about 90. And it’s another offensive bat.
C- Bengie Molina
1B- Aubrey Huff
2B- Freddy Sanchez
3B- Pablo Sandoval
SS- Edgar Renteria
LF- Mark DeRosa
CF- Aaron Rowand
RF- Freddy Lewis or a Free Agent
Lincecum
Cain
Zaito
Sanchez
Bumgarner
He’s also fat, a terrible baserunner, and oh yeah, he had a .285 OBP last year.
offensive bat and Bengie Molina.. that is so offensive.
Yeah cause Russel Martins numbers last year were way better.
That team is loaded down with a bunch of aging old fatties. That’s why it was a bad idea. They need more young blood like Sandoval on the team.
I know Kung-fu Panda is pretty big, but at least he can produce.
The rest of the hitters they have are not good enough to validate having a below-average defense, overall. Sandoval is the only hitter in that lineup I trust to have very good numbers by the end of the season.
it was a great move.. the guy knows this pitching staff.. although Lincecum is filthy on his own right and would have most likely won those Cy Youngs regardless of who was behind the plate, Molina and his EXCELLENT ability to call a game played a HUGE factor in our ENTIRE pitching staff being so dominant.. Sanchez, Cain and Bumgarner will all benefit tremendously from having another year with Molina.
the organization said last season that Posey needed to improve his game calling and this is a great way to do that.. Posey will still get his fair share of at bats and starts (I can assure you that) its just he will have a much better mentor in Molina than he would have had with Torrealba or whoever else they were planning on signing.. I dont say this often but great job Sabes.. and Molina will surely benefit from not having to play everyday as well as not having to hit cleanup.. our offense and Poseys development will be much better because of it.
I think Cain and Lincecum were more than capable of calling good games.
I think this is a great move. I don’t understand why Giants fans are up in arms.
Great is a bit, if not, a complete overstatement.
Of course he didn’t sign with the Mets. The Mets ONLY sign guys who played in the Expos system. Right now, the only ex-Expos catcher left unsigned is Michael Barrett. Guess who the Mets will sign? Michael Barrett.
I hope you don’t plan to put money on that.
as a mets fan, thank god.
maybe Mets “fans” should think a little more before talking so damn much.. while he has zero speed, he did hit 20 HRs and knock in 80 RBI last season.. lets see where his 2009 numbers would have ranked in your offense last season:
HRs- 1st
RBI- 1st
2Bs- 3rd
not to mention his BA was higher than all three of those bum catchers you started last season (Santos, Schneider, and Castro).. so stop acting like you didnt want him, he would have made your team that much better.. even with Bay, you guys will still finish 4th in the NL East, yet again.. enjoy!
haha what a ridiculous post. first, rbis mean nothing. 2ndly, when was the last time he hit 20hrs? oh, right never so its very likely he never does it again. and lastly, what sense does it make to have 3 sub .300 obp guys(including pitcher) in your everyday lineup? injured the mets may finish 4th, but healthy the giants will be lucky to finish 3rd.
RBIs mean nothing? Really? are we still talking about baseball? LOL
RBIs are not a fair barometer of player ability: merely situational luck. One might argue that 80 RBIs for the Giants would be 100 RBIs anywhere else, but Benjie wouldn’t have been hitting clean-up anywhere else. He simply played a lot of games and had more opportunities to drive in runs. Prince Fielder hit 140 RBIs last season partially because he’s a good hitter, but partially because Ryan Braun is hitting in front of him. There are too many variable factors to judge what RBIs says about a hitter, just like wins is a murky tool for analysis of a pitcher.
If you want to cry foul and say that RBIs are a reflection of slugging and hitting in high leverage situations… Well, there are better statistics for those things. Go look at FanGraphs sometime.
the Rockies had fate on their side last year, but they did lose their best pitcher (statistically speaking) in Marquis.. you never know how Francis is going to bounce back from injury as well, same with Cook.. and as for the Dodgers, its going to be funny to see who their opening day starter/rotation is going to be.. I like our chances.
and as for numbers go, Bengies hit 15+ HRs the last five years, which is GREAT for a catcher you bum.. and RBI dont mean anything? thats funny.. I wont even address you anymore man you are obviously incapable of sustaining a conversation regarding baseball.
yeah Solidarity you can say that for someone like James Loney but not Molina, the guy was dubbed Big Money for a reason.. minus that stretch where he went ICE cold, he was knocking in every run for the Giants in 2008 and for the first two months of 2009.. still, for an anemic offense like the one the Giants had the last two seasons, 80 RBI is an impressive feat for a catcher, regardless.
LOL I can’t say I blame Molina declining the Mets offer and resigning with the Giant’s..They are gonna be a threat to win it all this season.
giants arent winning anything.
thank god mets didnt sign molina, he’s a waste of money.
dejavu
Why, Sabean, why?
Wheels in the Bay keep on a spinnin’….
man, you have to feel sorry for the mets. No one wants to play there. I mean cmon, bengie too less so he wont play in New York. And Bay pretty much had to settle because he wasnt going to get another contract like the one the mets gave him. i feel for you mets fans.
Wow, no one wants to play for the Mets.
im glad that he signed this because i thought the mets were gonna make another dumb dontract 2 or 3 years guarenteed but they handled this the right way finally…. now use that money they will save if they sign Yorvit Torrealba at a 2 years maybe 5.5 mill 6 the most and use that difference to sign Sheets and Piniero…. also just accept that we cant trade Castillo and sign Hudson or Lopez to play second base because having Pelfrey and Piniero together they will need all the defense they can get since they induce groundballs like crazy…. and if the mets get Hudson for 3 mil a season then why not just sign him and take the Castillo contract on the chin and cut him or relagate him to the bench which he can come in as a pinch hitter/bunter he would be an awesome bench player
and please please please dont sign Delgado i beg you Omar…. Granted he did great for us but id rather have Murphy playing the whole season again
Torrealba already turned down a 2 year 7.5 million dollar deal to stay in Colorado, so you’re not getting him at 3 mill a season
This is a great signing. Posey is not ready. Smart not to rush him. Any of you that say Bengie Molina is blind. 2 out of the 3 years he was in San Francisco Tim Lincecum won a Cy Young.
Now if the Giants can get another bat and a 5th starter… Watch out Dodger bums.
Correlation does not imply causation. There is value in the fact that Molina has caught three different Cy Young winners, but there’s no way of really knowing how much Molina is affecting pitching performance, unless you can put every start he made and every start every other catcher has made in a side by side comparison… And even then, any “proof” is tenuous at best. “Intangibles,” in some cases, are superstitions that agents and FO people seize on for PR purposes.
Also, the money that might have gone to signing another bat and a fifth starter was just spent on Molina. Congratulations.
they were not going to get another bat unless it was a catcher, and FYI, they got the best FA catcher on the market.. Giants fans wake up.. this was a great signing! they were going to get a catcher regardless, why not bring back the one that was hitting cleanup for you last year and caught the best staff in baseball, especially on a one year deal? please tell me which “bat” they were going to go out and get other than torrealba?? they STILL might sign a fifth starter, they were going to wait awhile before signing one anyway, so they could still get a fifth starter if the price is right, the same they woulda done had they not signed Molina or signed Torrealba.. nothing has changed other than the fact that they let Molina know Posey is the future and his one year deal is to help ease that transition, so great sign Sabes.. and personally I think they were going to sign a reliever over a fifth starter which would be the best decision.. so hurry up and sign Calero and lets get this baby started.. we are winning the West, period!
It’s been reported that the Giants have pretty much reached their payroll limit for the offseason. All told, $22.5 million in signings, plus another $15 million or so for Lincecum in Wilson for arbitration… There’s some question as to whether there’s money left to sigh Calero, which was my point.
In my opinion, Torrealba would have been a better signing, since the Giants probably could have gotten him for less money, and he’d be a better fit for the lineup and this ballpark. Not to mention that there’d actually be money left over to sign Calero. If there’s one thing worse than a homer, it’s a homer who doesn’t know his facts.
Fact still remains he is the best FA catcher available.. fact still remains that Torrealba turned down a two year deal (worth about $7M) from CO to get a competitive offer elsewhere.. fact is that he wanted AT LEAST a two year deal (he might actually be forced to take a one year deal NOW THAT MOLINA TOOK ONE) but he still wanted two years.. fact is the Giants were MUCH better off resigning their catcher and cleanup hitter from last year on a one year deal because they know Posey will be the everyday catcher a year from now and the knowledge he WILL pass on to a young catcher like Posey is invaluable..have you looked at the market for Calero? you heard his name being mentioned all that much? the Giants have enough to make a play at him and I will be VERY surprised if they do not.. he will most likely receive a one year deal worth $2M+, which is more than doable.. Sabes is waiting to see how this plays out since there hasnt been much interest in the injury prone Calero, which is the right way to go about this.. it will be a minor upgrade if we sign him (I am a Calero fan since he is nasty when hes right) but it wont make or break our team which is the point.. having an above average catcher is much more valuable and was a much bigger priority than you’d obviously like to think..listen Damon Bruce, whether they sign Calero or not, their staff is still among the elite in all of baseball.. Romo, Medders, Affedlt, Runzler, and Wilson are obvious locks, and lets not forget they were the only consistently successful pitchers that we had in the pen last year, so there shouldnt be any drop off.. replacing Howry and Miller will be simple because just about anything you replace them with will be upgrades.. I think you can expect Joaquin to be at the big league level when the season starts and guys like Pucetas and Bumgarner will battle for the 5th starter spot and the “loser” will most likely be in the pen.. thats not as bad as you think it is.. Solidarity I do know my facts and I know common sense.. seems like you are missing the latter.
Look. We’re obviously not going to agree. And I frankly don’t have anything to prove by carrying on this conversation as you chase me all over the thread, even though you run your mouth too much to be a troll. But let me point out some assumptions you are making.
1) Molina’s presence will not impede Posey’s development. I believe that it will. Either Posey sits around not taking starts in SF, or gets to pick Steve Holm’s brain in Fresno.
2) The Giants have $2 million sitting around to pay Calero. See any of my other comments that you’ve ignored.
3) Pucetas or Martinez in the pen is an upgrade from Howry. I was perfectly happy to see Howry and Valdez go, but you can’t know for sure what you’re going to get from Joaquin, Runzler, Pucetas, Martinez, Hinshaw… Even Medders and Affeldt. Our bullpen is very talented, but largely unproven in the roles they’re expected to play.
4) The Giants success last year was entirely a result of skill. There’s evidence to suggest that the Giants had a fair bit of luck on their side last year, and were more like an 83-win team than a 90-win team.
You can talk down to me all you want, but while you might consider Benjie Molina the best FA catcher available, I would contest that regardless of his earth-shaking 80 RBI power, he is a bad fit for the team that the Giants were claiming to be building. Molina will put up fair numbers for the Giants next season, but he’ll still be slow, undiscerning, impatient, battered, defensively overrated, coaxed into double plays, and the prime example of why the Dodgers and Rockies went to the playoffs last year and the Giants did not. The free-swinging culture has to go if the Giants offense is going to improve, and Molina is the worst offender. Simply adding up Ribbies and Dingerz doesn’t make a better offense.
the only person assuming is you my friend.. you are assuming that Affeldt and Medders wont have success in 2010.. you are assuming Posey is ready to be the everyday catcher of a team that considers themselves contenders.. you are assuming the Giants will not sign another reliever if they are not content with the pitchers they currently have in the pen (key phrase: IF they are not content with the pitchers they currently have in the pen).. only assumptions made were by you man.
and I am not talking down to you, just take offense when I am called a homer who doesnt know his facts.. and the reason I respond to your posts more than others is because I honestly value your opinion.. unlike every other “fan” on this site, with the exception of a couple, you actually post your entire view on the subject and give reasons why this or that may be good or bad other than just saying “bad move” or “I dont like this” you actually give your reasoning and it always makes sense, but that is from your perspective.. I guess I have a different perspective.. and I am not a homer my man, I am a die hard fan of the Giants but I understand the game of baseball as I have been around it my entire young life, played it for 17 of my 23 years and have followed the Giants since as long as I can remember.. whether you choose to believe it or not, my dad used to work for the Giants and I currently have relatives within the Giants organization so I know a little bit of what I am talking about..
but regardless, I do believe (if you are going to bring in a catcher which is what they were pretty adamant on) the signing of Bengie makes perfect sense on a one year deal.. if he would have accepted arbitration awhile ago we wouldnt even be having this conversation, but he didnt so we made it well known that Posey is the future so we let him test FA.. he wants to be back which is why he accepted less money and we want him to ease that transition and mentor young Posey so we gave him a one year deal which ultimately was less than he would have got through arbitration.. great deal.. if Caleros price is right they will sign him but dont act like he is the answer to all our problems.. he is one of the most injury prone relievers in the game (torn rotator cuff is pretty serious http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070617&content_id=2032977&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb).
I agree with you 100%. I don’t understand where some of these Giants fans are coming from.
Good for the Giants. Buster Posey will learn to eat, that’s for sure.
Brian Sabean. Just when you think he can’t make a bad move, BAM, he makes sure he steals the headlines with one just in the nick of time.
While the Giants pitching staff is superb, they’re hitting and defense are so far off that they are still quite awhile away from competing. They should have let Posey take his lumps next year.
hmmm yes they are so far away from competing that there was no way for them to stay in the playoff race until the end of the season last year
quite awhile away from competing?
… they had 88 wins last year, and have done nothing but improve this offseason. With Sanchez, Pablo, Huff, Derosa, and Molina all back-to-back in our lineup, we will be putting up many more runs than last year. And Bumgarner will probably hold down the 5th spot better than the unreliable combination of Sadowski, Martinez, Sanchez, and Penny did. We’re just plain better, there’s no arguing that.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahahh mets fans must be pissed
I could see the mets going with Barajas at 2.5-3 on a one year.
Common guys, the truth is Posey is not ready to be full time and Whiteside? we know that story already. So we cant be in denial, we needed a catcher, and guess what? we got the best offensive catcher left in the market and one of the top in the NL, not to mention at a very cheap price, plus if he turned the mets offer not only does it show that he probably didnt want to in NY but that he loves SF, as a fan I can always appreciate a player who wants to play for your team, not the ones that want to be there for the money (Bay) or cause they are scared of a ballpark , or both (Laroche)…. And if he hits in the bottom of the order, that cant be a bad thing.
Wow the Giants are looking good this year,
Rowand
Sanchez
Sandoval
Huff
DeRosa
Molina
Schierholtz
Renteria
Lincecum
Cain
Zito
Sanchez
Bumgarner
Im with that line up
I haven’t seen a lineup like this since bonds, not to mention the rotation
20 hrs. 80 rbi and a .265 BA pretty good numbers for a catcher, plus a decent defender and a strong throwing arm, he has no speed but he is a catcher in his mid thirtys not sure why all the negative about Molina.
best catcher on the market
I agree with Wolfbane. I’d rather see a Barajas or Torrealba for a year and then make options when you can try for Mauer in a year, if possible or figure out where Thole is in his development. I really think Beniie drew in the Mets as a competitor so San Fran would have to pay him more than $2mil for a year until their young star is ready. I don’t know if Thole is the real deal, since he looked like Swiss cheese behind the plate, but maybe he learns some defense this year. If I never see Delgado and his brand of malaise and uninspired defense it would still be too soon. Good riddance to bad rubbish no matter how many homers and rbis he drives in.
It’s a one year contract 4.5 mil. to the giants isn’t THAT much after a free fun prize give away to zito for about 20 a year
LOL, try for Mauer? good luck with that one. Giants had gave up on Bengie buddy, so to them this is a bargain at that price, they paid him more last year, so if anything its at a discount price. Anyone wanting to pay him 2 mil would be way too cheap. I think this comment is just you trying to somehow make yourself believe that you didnt want molina, either way as a Giant fan I am very happy.
2010 moto ‘ THE BOYS ARE BACK ….. at the food court!”
I do not see a better staff in the league, add a 5th and win the west.
Visitor comes to San Francisco, what 3 starters match up?
Here’s my big problem with Molina.
He can’t throw out baserunners anymore. He might call a good game, but defensively he’s on the decline. And with Huff as a major defensive downgrade at first and the rest of our infield having somewhat limited range… I foresee opposing teams running rampant on the basepaths in 2010.
In Sabean’s desperate efforts to upgrade the offense, he has strayed so far away from the things that made the team competitive in 2009: Pitching and defense. There’s a reason the team had the best home-record in the National League last season… They played to their strengths. But instead of letting their young talent develop and improving the offense internally, as the signing of Hensley Meulens to be the hitting coach would have suggested, they are clogging the lineup (and the basepaths) with veterans north of 30 coming off of various surgeries, and with very few guarantees about the offense.
“The Giants Way” isn’t evident anywhere above AAA right now, and I find that very disappointing. Maybe we’ll be competitive this year. Maybe we’ll even win the NL West, if things line up the right way. But meanwhile, a lot of young talent is going to waste. My only hope is that when Rowand and Zito’s contracts expire in a couple of years, the Giants will get serious about their commitment to the youth movement. It’s a much more sustainable, and exciting, brand of baseball.
So are you saying that because we have Molina now the defense is all bad? Would posey have made a big difference than Molina on defense? If anything, I agree Molinas defense has gone down but not too much, so if anything, Molina can mentor Posey on many good things, Shoot I might just pay him that money just to tutor Posey, LOL, ok that was a joke
I think that the Giants could have a lot of defensive woes this year, and teams will know that we aren’t very good at throwing out baserunners, just like the Mets ran rampant in that one 4 games series last May. I think that a younger catcher with a better arm would have been a better buy for the Giants… particularly if they had enough money left over to fill Howry’s spot in the bullpen. Signing Molina hurts an already weakened defense, at the expense of a bullpen that has several upsides but also several players with expected to have some amount of regression (Medders, Affeldt). There’s a bit of a snowball effect that’s happened to the Giants defense in their efforts to moderately improve the offense. It may also put extra stress on the starters to be perfect, which might in turn lead to more regression, particularly in the second-half.
The Giants have made some odd moves this offseason, though I’ve been able to appreciate each one in some respect. But when I step back and look at the whole picture… I’m not sure I really like what I see.
I’m ok with this deal. They didn’t overpay and Posey gets a few more reps at AAA with former big league catcher Steve Decker as manager. From what I’ve read the only catcher in the Majors with less than 300 games in the minors is Mauer at 295. Now Molina will be hitting 6th or 7th where he belongs. A plus is the Giants probably don’t want to start Posey’s arb clock like they did with Lincecum. Hopefully Posey comes up in July or Aug and give Molina the rest he needs.
NY Mets Pitching should look like this:
Santana
Maine Pelfrey (Sheets) Piniero…..; no O. Perez
K-Rod, (Kerry Wood), Feliciano, Parnell, Niese, Igarashi, Escobar, Green
Should, But will it?
I agree with the intelligent, game-savvy Mets fans who applaud this non-move. Catchers are an overrated commodity. Let the pitches sail to the backstop!
NY MET Lineup
REYES (O. Hudson) Wright Bay Francouer Murphy Torrealba F. Martinez (r)
Beltran…. pagan, reed Johnson, Cora, A. Kennedy, Blanco
This is a much bigger signing efecting the NL west then anyone realizes right now. I called this last week. The best available catcher, but not for more than one year. Cheaper then his arb would have been, wow he really must have not wanted to go to the Mets. Batting low in the lineup, no big hitters stuck behind him, bringing up Posey, Huff and Derosa are now not replacing his 18hr/80RBI’s, he’ll be healthier. One more reliever, and I’m close to to claiming the NL West as gong to the GIGANTES. The lunatic Giants fringe need to realize, Bengie is now in a proper spot in the lineup, and you don’t need your catcher of all people to be the fast guy, plus this kind of signing is what Sabes should have been doing more of…instead of Roberts, Rentaria, ect. We really got some deals this year, and the young kids will be ready to tear it up in 2011…primed for back-to-back NL WEST titles.
Everyone bashes his defense but if you are a true Giant fan and watched most games, you would know that he can block some balls in the dirt that most catchers cant, He may not be able to throw out runners like he use to but he also is not all that bad at that
I like this signing. How often does a player come back to a team, with less pay, because he wants to? Giants fans, he WANTS to play in SF. It’s kind of flattering considering all the stupid players all caught up in stats (Bay and LaRoche). Bengie is a winner, by that I mean he wants to win and believes in the Giants and his pitching staff. Who wouldn’t when you’re catching for possibly the best pitching rotation in the league (at least the NL)? He doesn’t have the greatest defense but he’ll call out a good game. He knows the pitchers. Good catching factors somewhere into good pitching. Then there’s hitting. He had 92 RBis last year followed by 80 this year. His batting average dropped but keep in mind he’s a catcher. Statistically speaking, he’s definitely in the top eight of catchers in the NL. he’s great for the clubhouse, and its a one year deal. Chill the eff out.
You forget that the Giants will sign Eric brynes!
We were just talking about the possibility of his return this afternoon. Great win-win for both him & the Giants; the team just got a whole lot better with an established defensive & offensive backstop batting down where he should be, easily a top 10 NL catcher. Sure, not a cure-all but fits perfectly into SF plans to put a winning team on the field w/o long term committment until the serious contender emerges 2 years from now. Sabean did a great job here, Molina made a very smart move, and the Mets just keep looking dumber & dumber.
This team spends so much every year on players who make marginal impact. If they would have just signed someone like Holliday or Bay, that division would be theirs. But they insist on signing guys like Renteria, Huff, Uribe, Molina, Rowand, etc…
here we go again with the Bay and Holliday story. HOW MANY WILL WE HAVE TO SAY IT, 1. BAY DIDNT WANT TO BE HERE, HOLLIDAY WAS WAAAAAY OUT THE PRICE RANGE. We had no chance at that…. so just stop that
lol Bay didnt want to play in Queens either but he signed there.. its an abused cliche but its true: MONEY TALKS!
According to the media, Bay did not want to play in Boston, Queens, or San Francisco.. with 2 of those 3 teams being potential contenders… so he ultimately signed with the team that offered him the most money… go figure.
Next time just make a damn offer Sabean!
The Giants want Buster Posey to develop and hand the starting C role to there man for the last 3 years Bengie Molina. Bengie Molina has returned as catcher, he will be catching the hottest pitching staff in the NL this year. Jonathan Sanchez, I am telling he is a changed man after the 2nd half of 2009 season. Not too mention the Giants opening day lineup is so strong comparEd to last year. Molina will not have the pressure hitting Clean-up like he has had. This season he will most likely hit in the 6 hole. I really see Huff and Derosa producing big as everyday players.
Thank God he didn’t sign with the Mets, at least he can go out with style.
I think this is a reflection of what Molina thinks about the Giants chances in 2010. They have upgraded the offense, although not team speed, but he is better than any other catcher available. He saw that the Mets have absolutely no chance to win, and at this point in his career, that is probably more important than a few million dollars. Hitting down in the order gives them someone with power at the bottom third of the order, and when is the last time the Giants had that? I think this also reflects what the organization thinks about the upcoming season. This is not a re-building year…it’s a ‘lets plug some pieces in this puzzle and see what happens’ year. This should also make the pitching staff better since they won’t have to learn a new catcher, and they all seem to feel comfortable with Molina behind the dish. Good move overall…
And what about the cost of living in NYC and the taxes? the difference was only 500,000
SF is very expensive to live in and the tax rate’s in California are ridicules. This is however a place he lived for three years and with a team he’s comfortable playing for.
I would sign Eric Byrnes to a 1 year deal, Noah Lowry to a 1 year deal and trade some extra weight for prospects
1. Rowand – CF
2. Sanchez – 2nd
3. Sandoval – 3rd
4. Huff – 1st
5. DeRosa – LF
6. Schierholtz – RF
7. Molina – C
8. Renteria – SS
battle for 4th outfielder
Lincecum
Cain
Zito
Lowry
Sanchez
Am I the only one who really knows the true value of Bengie. How about hmmm calling games on a day to day basis for a back to back Cy Young Award winning pitcher? Historically catchers aren’t the big bats in the line up. On an overall basis he is pretty solid.
Bringing him back one more year until Posey is ready. Good Move!!!!!
The #1 problem with the Giants is their offense. The main problem with their offense is their lack of ability to get on base. Last season, Bengie Molina was the worst offender in that regard (sub .300 OBP). He isn’t getting younger and it’s unlikely he’ll be any better in 2010. Even if Posey “isn’t ready” he still represents an offensive upgrade over Bengie Molina. Way to improve the offense, Sabes. You suck!
Not getting Molina is addition by not adding .. he’s a good rbi guy, but is too fat and old
Giants will designate Jesus Guzman to open a roster space for Molina tweets Andrew Baggarly.
Great move as long as bengie bats 6-8 spot