10:06pm: Cardinals' manager Tony La Russa says that any deal should be finalized this week, according to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The piece offers plenty of detail about this past weekend's negotiations, which have left the Cardinals with "a sense of optimism" regarding Holliday.
5:30pm: Sources tell ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the Cardinals and Holliday "are close to a deal."
12:35pm: It's been suggested that the Cardinals have offered multiple contract scenarios to Holliday. One might have been seven years and $112MM, according to SI's Jon Heyman. Also, Heyman talked to one source who believes the Orioles are "laying in the weeds" despite recent denials.
Meanwhile, Bernie Miklasz of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch offers his take, in which he notes that silence from Cards GM John Mozeliak might be a positive sign.
8:30am: A Friday tweet by Cardinals manager Tony La Russa had some fans wondering if a Matt Holliday signing was imminent, but Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch contacted La Russa to get an explanation exceeding 140 characters. La Russa explained to Goold:
"We're getting ready to move. I know they’ve been talking a lot with Matt. I know we have a really smart Plan B…(It) could be on Plan A, or it could be our Plan B. The point is, we're not going to get stuck."
La Russa told Goold he was not referring specifically to Holliday with his "Soon the Cards will be smart too" tweet. However, Goold did learn from one source that there could be a Holliday resolution this week. Goold speculated that of the various packages offered to the slugger, six or seven years with a guarantee over $100MM might do the trick. Tracy Ringolsby of FOX Sports suggested on Wednesday that Holliday aims to top the $18MM average annual salary he passed up from the Rockies in '08. It will be interesting to see how high the Cardinals are willing to go given the lack of a clear second suitor for Holliday.
I’m for the players getting the money over the owners, but man they sound so greedy sometimes 17M is not enough got to have 18M.
i have a feeling Plan B might be Johnny Damon.
I agree that it’s probably Damon but also would include another signing or two.
Something like Damon plus Orlando Hudson and re-signing Smoltz so that the $18M they’d have spent on Holliday would be spread out amongst them.
It’s not going to be Hudson cause they repepated Skip is their second baseman and they would not move him after the job he did and all the hard work that came with it. I don’t like the Smoltz idea either because he just came off of his worst year, he’s one year older and the Cards already said they don’t want to put money into injury plagued players. The Damon idea I could go along with though.
It’s not going to be Hudson cause they repepated Skip is their second baseman and they would not move him after the job he did and all the hard work that came with it. I don’t like the Smoltz idea either because he just came off of his worst year, he’s one year older and the Cards already said they don’t want to put money into injury plagued players. The Damon idea I could go along with though.
their plan B is most likely a trade. Maybe pluck Luke Scott from the Orioles and play him in LF? Another possibility would be Dan Uggla from the Marlins
their plan B is most likely a trade. Maybe pluck Luke Scott from the Orioles and play him in LF? Another possibility would be Dan Uggla from the Marlins
I wonder how Albert will cost if they give Holliday 18 per…
Think ARod money… that would be probably be his discounted price.
35 mill
If the Cards are smart, they will front-load Holliday’s deal and Back-load Alberts – that way they can probably afford them both without extreme difficulty. Like say they give Holliday 7/112 like it says above. Then give Pujols 7/157 (average 22.4 per starting in 2012) Break the two down like thisHolliday 19 (10), 18 (11), 17 (12), 16 (13), 15 (14), 14 (15), 13 (16)A.Pujols 16 (10), 16 (11), 19 (12), 20 (13), 21 (14), 22 (15), 23 (16), 25 (17), 27 (18)That way between 2010 and 2016 they would be paying the two between 34 and 36 MM combined each year instead of the two gradually becoming expensive to the point they wouldnt be able to coexist on the same club.
Pujols will be offered 30+ mil per from Boston!!!!
Not if he is never a FA he wont.
The longer Holliday takes to sign the more chance that the Red Sox or the Yankess will decide to step in and overspend. I feel he will always resign with the Cards though as he was happy there with Albert.His biggest problem isn’t who he signs for, however, it is that he chose Scott Boras as his agent. Not only has he destroyed some teams hopes over the last few years with his own greed, but he is ruining some players careers with his greed.Mlb doesn’t need to put a salary cap on teams, they just need to get rid of renegade greedy agents. Create a centralised players agency as part of a players union and everyone will receive equal representation.
Nobody forces GMs to cave to Boras and his clients. It is just simple supply and demand that works itself out.
The job of an agent is to get their client as much money as possible, and Boras does that. If Boras wasn’t doing his job, he wouldn’t have so many clients. So, only person at fault in this is Holliday, since he chose Boras. Don’t get mad at Boras for doing his job.
No, the job of an agent is to get their client the best “deal” possible. Generally this is measured by $$, but not solely. This is something that Scott Boras doesn’t comprende, as agents don’t get 10% of opt-out and no trade clauses.
i highly doubt the sox stepping in, theo doesnt like giving that many years to anyone and on top of that, a signing like this would throw them over the luxury tax. unless the sox plan on throwing ells in a blockbuster for a cabrera/gonzolez type deal (i hope not), i see no reason for us to go after holliday.
Theo gave 5 years to Drew, he had 7 years on the table for Teixeira, and he gave 5 years to a pitcher who missed time the last two seasons due to elbow issues. So I dont buy that he would give X amount of years to anyone, he’ll give it to the guys that he wants.
how many 5+ year contracts has he given out since drew’s? the only one i can think of is lackey, who is a top of rotation guy… he had 7 years on the table for texiera because he fit into the redsox mold and had been coveted by them for many years. also notice that they didnt bend from the offer they had on the table to tex, just as they won’t bend for this offer to holliday that they had originally gave. the sox already offered him 5, i just dont see them in a bidding war with anyone for him especially for 7-8 years as he wants.
how many 5+ year contracts has he given out since drew’s? the only one i can think of is lackey, who is a top of rotation guy… he had 7 years on the table for texiera because he fit into the redsox mold and had been coveted by them for many years. also notice that they didnt bend from the offer they had on the table to tex, just as they won’t bend for this offer to holliday that they had originally gave. the sox already offered him 5, i just dont see them in a bidding war with anyone for him especially for 7-8 years as he wants.
Theo gave 5 years to Drew, he had 7 years on the table for Teixeira, and he gave 5 years to a pitcher who missed time the last two seasons due to elbow issues. So I dont buy that he would give X amount of years to anyone, he’ll give it to the guys that he wants.
Don’t give him too much, Matt isn’t going to miss the season just because he wants big money. Give him 16 million, and then sign Beltre. The Dominican Dominance at the corner infield positions for the Cardinals would be awesome.
It is obvious that he has no other option but the Cardinals, so I don’t get why they would increase their offer. Its the dodgers/manny issue all over again. If they sign Holliday for 18 mil and Pujols for 20 mil, they will have a very good 3,4 for years to come.
Odd as it may sound, investing 38M in two players really isn’t that bad of an idea as long as they are the right players.
Doing that the Cards would have about 50M or a bit more to play with and that would be plenty to field a couple aces and then surround the core with solid role players and regulars like Ryan and Schumaker while trying to develop a cheap young stud like Rasmus.
The Marlins are competitve with less than a 50m dollar payroll and just immagine where they would be if you gave them Pujols and Holliday for free.
I dont see how it can work with only a 90m payroll.
38m to Pujols and Holliday
32m (roughly) to Carpenter, Lohse, Wainwright over the next 3 seasons
That leaves you 20m to spend on 20 other players (not to mention the 7.5m gave to Penny), so you have to get 19 other guys for 13.5m?
Actually, the Cardinals payroll is already 87Mil for 2010, so if they sign Holliday for 18Mil, they would be at 105 Mil. There 2009 payroll was 88 Mil, and they have never had over 100 Mil. It would be a first for them. But definately worth it in my opinion.
Give them a budget of 100m then; they would have 70m invested in 5 players (if Holliday signs) over the next few years. Thats 30m left to cover 20 guys.
Yes, but that’s 5 really good players with enough left over to spend about what the Marlins or Pirates do on their whole team.
Except Ludwick and Schumaker are getting raises in arbitraton this year, and Molina is due 4m, Franklin is due 2m, and Reyes is due 2m. So that lowers your budget even more
The cardinals will be going in the $120m range once Albert signs his life time commitment. This is still well within 50-60% of revenue margins. Investors are happy their turning a 20-23 % after taxes and the team looks Very attractive for years to come. Not just in batting but pitching as well.
Give them a budget of 100m then; they would have 70m invested in 5 players (if Holliday signs) over the next few years. Thats 30m left to cover 20 guys.
Actually, the Cardinals payroll is already 87Mil for 2010, so if they sign Holliday for 18Mil, they would be at 105 Mil. There 2009 payroll was 88 Mil, and they have never had over 100 Mil. It would be a first for them. But definately worth it in my opinion.
I dont see how it can work with only a 90m payroll.
38m to Pujols and Holliday
32m (roughly) to Carpenter, Lohse, Wainwright over the next 3 seasons
That leaves you 20m to spend on 20 other players (not to mention the 7.5m gave to Penny), so you have to get 19 other guys for 13.5m?
Been thinking this same thing for a while. I’m a Cards fan and in the case of Pujols and Holiday I don’t mind spending 50 million.
Been thinking this same thing for a while. I’m a Cards fan and in the case of Pujols and Holiday I don’t mind spending 50 million.
I wonder if the Cards will regret a 6 or 7 year deal, like the Cubs do Soriano’s
Cards wouldn’t be making that offer to a player like soriano. The cards trade for players first before signing them to extensions so they can verify their work ethic. They wouldn’t be offering Holliday the kind of money he’s getting if they didn’t trust that he was going to continue working hard after he gets his money. Soriano is exactly the kind of player you don’t give a long deal to, by all signs so far I think Holliday seems to be the type worthy of it.
I’m pretty sure that Soriano’s problem has NEVER been work ethic. Unfortunately, he has simply suffered from diminishing skills. That is something that the Cardinals are just as susceptible to experiencing as the Cubs.
Exactly right. Soriano’s contract may not be a fan favorite but he follows his off-season conditioning, always shows up to spring training in top shape and never has a bad attitude.
I’m pretty sure that Soriano’s problem has NEVER been work ethic. Unfortunately, he has simply suffered from diminishing skills. That is something that the Cardinals are just as susceptible to experiencing as the Cubs.
Cards wouldn’t be making that offer to a player like soriano. The cards trade for players first before signing them to extensions so they can verify their work ethic. They wouldn’t be offering Holliday the kind of money he’s getting if they didn’t trust that he was going to continue working hard after he gets his money. Soriano is exactly the kind of player you don’t give a long deal to, by all signs so far I think Holliday seems to be the type worthy of it.
Well duh…the Yankees are going to sign him. LOL.
Boras still a ” high end ” agent he doesn’t look very good in this off-season…
He lost his charm with old players; but if you’re a draft pick or a good FA at 26-30 then he’s still your best bet to get the most money.
Right now, the money is in the draft picks. He’ll get an elite draft pick big money by holding teams over. Not including Strasburg, look at the money he got Ackley, Tate, Green, Turner, and several others. Boras is still an elite.
Boras can’t work contrary to the market. Nobody can. Right now, there isn’t an individual agent that can get older vets the type of money they got in the past.
And its not Boras’s fault that the Mets massively overpaid an inferior player in Bay.
“Right now, there isn’t an individual agent that can get older vets the type of money they got in the past.”
Those older veterans, Damon-type players, can still get 4-5m in FA, which is still more than the majority of the draft picks. The money is still in good FAs, the % he took from ARod’s and Texiera’s contracts are probably more than he took from all his players who got drafted those 2 years.
Right now, the money is in the draft picks. He’ll get an elite draft pick big money by holding teams over. Not including Strasburg, look at the money he got Ackley, Tate, Green, Turner, and several others. Boras is still an elite.
Boras can’t work contrary to the market. Nobody can. Right now, there isn’t an individual agent that can get older vets the type of money they got in the past.
And its not Boras’s fault that the Mets massively overpaid an inferior player in Bay.
If the cards miss out on Holliday I really think that things ard gonna get ugly in the Pujols negotiations. I’m not sure if any of the remaining free agents are gonna be the 1 that makes pitchers wanna throw strikes to Albert
Sounds like a Johnny Damon type scenario is coming up. He is the best all around player (defense kind of dipping though), left on the open market. Unless of course the Cards are thinking a trade?
Best chance for Holliday to get more than $18MM is if the Cubs can move some salary and get in on the Holliday bidding in an effort to begin looking to 2011 and beyond. If the Cardinals are the only player Boras is going to lose this one.
I respectfully disagree, Patrick. I think the Cards are aiming high for a reason: Pujols. Winning another WS now would accomplish two things: cement in Pujols’ mind that ownership is committed to winning and provide the influx of cash they need to sign Pujols to a long-term extension. For those reasons, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them give Holliday a deal richer than most of us feel he deserves, and I suspect Boras knows this as well as anyone.
I don’t see how paying more for Holliday is going to cement anything in regards to Pujols. Pujols is going to either make a totally unexpected sweet heart home town deal move or he is going to blow Alex Rodriquez contract out of the water. Assuming the latter is more likely and his contract amounts to $30MM a year, I don’t see where the Cardinals end up putting roughly 40-45% of their team salary into two players. Especially as Holliday’s numbers indicate he is completely replaceable. The Cardinals need not over play their hand right now, between fall of 2010 free agents and their ability to make deals they are in a much better spot with both players in terms of options.
I don’t see how paying more for Holliday is going to cement anything in regards to Pujols. Pujols is going to either make a totally unexpected sweet heart home town deal move or he is going to blow Alex Rodriquez contract out of the water. Assuming the latter is more likely and his contract amounts to $30MM a year, I don’t see where the Cardinals end up putting roughly 40-45% of their team salary into two players. Especially as Holliday’s numbers indicate he is completely replaceable. The Cardinals need not over play their hand right now, between fall of 2010 free agents and their ability to make deals they are in a much better spot with both players in terms of options.
Pujols has said that the most important thing to him is the teams commitment to winning not chasing every dollar. Signing holliday shows Pujols that the cards are committed to winning, which is needed right now because they are probably going to want to get a long term deal done this year.
You expect that Pujols would say the most important thing to him is getting the largest contract ever doled out to a professional baseball player? Whether they want a long term deal done now or not, they have the luxury of having the most prolific offensive player in the game currently under contract for not only 2010 but 2011. The Cardinals are in the drivers seat.
The cards struggled in 2007 and 2008 post their miracle 2006 World Series run, but I’d argue their rebound in 2009 had more to do with the return of Chris Carpentar. Their are other places to get production more affordably for them than Holliday.
of course not, but he doesn’t have to say anything. Obviously money matters to Pujols, like it does to anyone else, but I think winning matters as well. To get Pujols to sign and extension in 2010 they needed to show him that they are serious about winning. Signing Pujols does that.
You expect that Pujols would say the most important thing to him is getting the largest contract ever doled out to a professional baseball player? Whether they want a long term deal done now or not, they have the luxury of having the most prolific offensive player in the game currently under contract for not only 2010 but 2011. The Cardinals are in the drivers seat.
The cards struggled in 2007 and 2008 post their miracle 2006 World Series run, but I’d argue their rebound in 2009 had more to do with the return of Chris Carpentar. Their are other places to get production more affordably for them than Holliday.
Pujols has said that the most important thing to him is the teams commitment to winning not chasing every dollar. Signing holliday shows Pujols that the cards are committed to winning, which is needed right now because they are probably going to want to get a long term deal done this year.
So if let say the Cardinals move on and don’t sign Holliday, where would he go and still get the money he wants Japan?
The Orioles want him, i think they want a new franchise player. They almost went all in on Teixiera, maybe they pull the trigger on this one….
I was kind of disappointed to see Tex sign with the Yankees instead of the O’s. If your favorite team as a kid offers you good money you should sign with them. Instead he has to face them many times a year.
He gets to go visit home 8-9 nights a baseball season..
He gets to go visit home 8-9 nights a baseball season..
I was kind of disappointed to see Tex sign with the Yankees instead of the O’s. If your favorite team as a kid offers you good money you should sign with them. Instead he has to face them many times a year.
The Orioles want him, i think they want a new franchise player. They almost went all in on Teixiera, maybe they pull the trigger on this one….
If the Cardinals move on, Boras will orchestrate a bidding war between Boston, New York, and anyone else with the money available. And none of them will even be interested.
Damn him.
Sox and Yankees have repeated over and over that there is no chance Holliday goes to either Boston or New York.
That doesn’t mean Boras won’t try to include them.
how can he include them though when both teams frantically deny any interest in the player?
how can he include them though when both teams frantically deny any interest in the player?
That doesn’t mean Boras won’t try to include them.
And you know when the Yankees say they have no interest they really mean it. Wink wink.
And you know when the Yankees say they have no interest they really mean it. Wink wink.
Sox and Yankees have repeated over and over that there is no chance Holliday goes to either Boston or New York.
If the Cardinals move on, Boras will orchestrate a bidding war between Boston, New York, and anyone else with the money available. And none of them will even be interested.
Damn him.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Orioles and Angels come into the mix if the Cards fall out of contention for his services.
If Holliday brings his price down to something like $15-16M I’m also sure a bunch of other teams would be calling as well.
Or if a team like the Giants or the Mariners can get a little crafty and move some additional payroll, I think they’d be interested.
Hmm, I never thought about it, but I can really see the Angels getting in on this if it drags on too long.
Hmm, I never thought about it, but I can really see the Angels getting in on this if it drags on too long.
I agree that the Orioles could be a surprise team here. They do have alot of money as they are in a pretty big market.
But I can’t see his price dropping to 15-16 mil a year. I don’t think the Cardinals will have a problem 17 or possibly even 18 a year to keep him. But I am growing less confident in the Cardinals chances. Someone could sneak in there with 18 or 19mil a year and sign him. I think he is too good of a fit for the Giants to not try to make something work with him
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Orioles and Angels come into the mix if the Cards fall out of contention for his services.
If Holliday brings his price down to something like $15-16M I’m also sure a bunch of other teams would be calling as well.
Or if a team like the Giants or the Mariners can get a little crafty and move some additional payroll, I think they’d be interested.
The longer this goes on, there more interested I am in the plan B.
My guess is some combination of Dye, Tejada, Wang, Smoltz, and Valverde… which would turn out quite good in my opinion.
The longer this goes on, there more interested I am in the plan B.
Remember there have been several cases where the team that is “out in front” for a Boras client is not the team that ends up with said client. St Louis has been very public about this Holliday chase, and that doesn’t actually bode well for their chances.
Beltran went to the Mets after the Astros were said to be his only real suitor
Damon went to the Yankees after the Red Sox were the only ones pursuing him.
And Teixeira signed with the Yankees after media reports said the Red Sox were right on the verge of locking him up.
Until Holliday signs a contract, I wouldn’t rule out the Orioles IMO. They have the need and interest and have been extremely quiet…
Orioles have Reimold, Jones, Markakis and Scott for OF and DH; no reason to invest 100m+ into Holliday
Holliday is a RH cleanup hitter, which is something the Orioles have been targeting.
Reimold can be moved to DH, Scott can be traded as can Pie for other pieces to upgrade the O’s.Signing Holliday just gives them more options.Holliday is the best FA bat out of this and the next offseason that will be available to the Orioles as Mauer isn’t going to be an option.If Andy wants to add a big FA bat before 2011, Holliday is his best chance.
Even though Scott isnt a FA until after 2011, he’ll be 32 in June, not sure what you can get for him; but regardless, they’re a 4th place team this year with a payroll budget that looks to be around 70-80m, I just dont agree with giving 25% of your budget to one guy who doesnt make you that much better. IMO they should let their young pitchers and batters develop and then add the big FA when they’re a piece away from serious contention, like the Rays did last year with Burrell.
Even though Scott isnt a FA until after 2011, he’ll be 32 in June, not sure what you can get for him; but regardless, they’re a 4th place team this year with a payroll budget that looks to be around 70-80m, I just dont agree with giving 25% of your budget to one guy who doesnt make you that much better. IMO they should let their young pitchers and batters develop and then add the big FA when they’re a piece away from serious contention, like the Rays did last year with Burrell.
Holliday is a RH cleanup hitter, which is something the Orioles have been targeting.
Reimold can be moved to DH, Scott can be traded as can Pie for other pieces to upgrade the O’s.Signing Holliday just gives them more options.Holliday is the best FA bat out of this and the next offseason that will be available to the Orioles as Mauer isn’t going to be an option.If Andy wants to add a big FA bat before 2011, Holliday is his best chance.
Orioles have Reimold, Jones, Markakis and Scott for OF and DH; no reason to invest 100m+ into Holliday
Beltran went to the Mets after the Astros were said to be his only real suitor
Actually, If you don’t remember watching the 2005 MLB Playoffs.. they would mention Carlos Beltran as the “soon to be CF for the New York Yankees” and then discuss frequently how the Yankees will bet the bank to acquire the star CF from the houston astros.. especially after what he pulled off during the playoff run.
Beltran went to the Mets after the Astros were said to be his only real suitor
Actually, If you don’t remember watching the 2005 MLB Playoffs.. they would mention Carlos Beltran as the “soon to be CF for the New York Yankees” and then discuss frequently how the Yankees will bet the bank to acquire the star CF from the houston astros.. especially after what he pulled off during the playoff run.
LOL how do you compare the O’s to the Yanks
Remember there have been several cases where the team that is “out in front” for a Boras client is not the team that ends up with said client. St Louis has been very public about this Holliday chase, and that doesn’t actually bode well for their chances.
Beltran went to the Mets after the Astros were said to be his only real suitor
Damon went to the Yankees after the Red Sox were the only ones pursuing him.
And Teixeira signed with the Yankees after media reports said the Red Sox were right on the verge of locking him up.
Until Holliday signs a contract, I wouldn’t rule out the Orioles IMO. They have the need and interest and have been extremely quiet…
IMO Matt Holliday has 3 options!
1) Resign with the Cardinals knowing your a playoff-caliber squad. 5yr 85-90mill
2) Sign with Baltimore for the “money” as well as a deal “in your terms” and hope they’ll be a playoff caliber team this season or next season. 6yr 108 w/’player options for year 3 & 5 of contract.
3) Sign with Yankees b/c you want to win a World Series. Sign 5yr 80mill.
IMO Matt Holliday has 3 options!
1) Resign with the Cardinals knowing your a playoff-caliber squad. 5yr 85-90mill
2) Sign with Baltimore for the “money” as well as a deal “in your terms” and hope they’ll be a playoff caliber team this season or next season. 6yr 108 w/’player options for year 3 & 5 of contract.
3) Sign with Yankees b/c you want to win a World Series. Sign 5yr 80mill.
There is a insiders story on the Yanks saving a spot for Pujols. Any one has insiders access?
It was a Phil Rogers story that we chose not to link to.
Phil Rogers is about as worthless as a sports writer can get, especially when discussing the Cardinals. Just because it would be his wet dream for Pujols to leave the division doesn’t mean it will happen.
is he a cub/brewer fanatico?
Cubs
is he a cub/brewer fanatico?
Phil Rogers is about as worthless as a sports writer can get, especially when discussing the Cardinals. Just because it would be his wet dream for Pujols to leave the division doesn’t mean it will happen.
It was a Phil Rogers story that we chose not to link to.
It would be interesting to know where that spot is. Tex is locked up for a long time.
I could see the Red Sox, Mets or Angels “making room” for Pujols, but the Pujols/Yankees ship sailed when the Yanks signed Teix.
But then, all Pujols/non-Cards team talk is still pipe dream-ish at this point. But then, the notion that Pujols will give the Cardinals that massive of a hometown discount is also a pipe dream. His contract will be below market value, but it still will be HUGE.
Can’t argue with that, at the very least you are talking 8 years 200 mil, on the open market I could see him getting 10 years 300 mil. A 10 year contract for a 29 year old player would be insane but on the other hand it is albert pujols so who knows.
Can’t argue with that, at the very least you are talking 8 years 200 mil, on the open market I could see him getting 10 years 300 mil. A 10 year contract for a 29 year old player would be insane but on the other hand it is albert pujols so who knows.
I could see the Red Sox, Mets or Angels “making room” for Pujols, but the Pujols/Yankees ship sailed when the Yanks signed Teix.
But then, all Pujols/non-Cards team talk is still pipe dream-ish at this point. But then, the notion that Pujols will give the Cardinals that massive of a hometown discount is also a pipe dream. His contract will be below market value, but it still will be HUGE.
It would be interesting to know where that spot is. Tex is locked up for a long time.
There is a insiders story on the Yanks saving a spot for Pujols. Any one has insiders access?
Pujols isn’t going anywhere. He’ll be a Cardinal forever. If you don’t agree, listen to his comments after this years ASG in St. Louis. And anyone who thinks the Cardinals organization is so irresponsible to offer Holliday money that wouldn’t allow Albert to come back is ridiculous.
He will go to where the money is, dont think twice about it. If the Cardinals can afford him, he will stay. He wont play there for free when teams may offer almost $40 million a year for him
Not even Albert gets 40 a year. No way. He will be around 250/8 or 300/10 and the Cardinals will take that. You are talking about a modern day phenom playing his whole career in the best baseball city. I don’t see him breaking the bank after asking the team to be competitive.
He will go to where the money is, dont think twice about it. If the Cardinals can afford him, he will stay. He wont play there for free when teams may offer almost $40 million a year for him
But then, you know TLR has one infatuation for Holliday and ultimately was the one who pushed the Holliday trade.
But then, I haven’t seen a team besides the Yankees that had over 45MM committed to two players and not be completely handcuffed. Not the Red Sox, not the Angels, etc. But Pujols is a once-in-generation talent though.
That team’s got to spend big on the draft to commit 45MM to two players and not screw the rest of the team over.
But then, you know TLR has one infatuation for Holliday and ultimately was the one who pushed the Holliday trade.
But then, I haven’t seen a team besides the Yankees that had over 45MM committed to two players and not be completely handcuffed. Not the Red Sox, not the Angels, etc. But Pujols is a once-in-generation talent though.
That team’s got to spend big on the draft to commit 45MM to two players and not screw the rest of the team over.
Pujols isn’t going anywhere. He’ll be a Cardinal forever. If you don’t agree, listen to his comments after this years ASG in St. Louis. And anyone who thinks the Cardinals organization is so irresponsible to offer Holliday money that wouldn’t allow Albert to come back is ridiculous.
I just do not see Baltimore getting into this bidding. Of course wilder things have happened and two of his good friends are playing for the Os.
I just do not see Baltimore getting into this bidding. Of course wilder things have happened and two of his good friends are playing for the Os.
Two comments about above comments:
1. 38 mill for pujols and Holliday.
-Pujols has to agree to sign for 20 million; he’s the best player in the game so look for it to be closer to 30 than 20.
2. Plan B
-I honestly think that plan B Damon & Beltre for the same it would cost for Holliday. AND both of those players could be off the books by the time the Pujols negotiations have to take place. A line up starting off with pujos, damon and beltre ( in the NL Damon and Beltre would be alot better than they are in the AL b/c of the competition ) is alot better than a lineup with Pujols and a bunch of kids (and LUGO)
Two comments about above comments:
1. 38 mill for pujols and Holliday.
-Pujols has to agree to sign for 20 million; he’s the best player in the game so look for it to be closer to 30 than 20.
2. Plan B
-I honestly think that plan B Damon & Beltre for the same it would cost for Holliday. AND both of those players could be off the books by the time the Pujols negotiations have to take place. A line up starting off with pujos, damon and beltre ( in the NL Damon and Beltre would be alot better than they are in the AL b/c of the competition ) is alot better than a lineup with Pujols and a bunch of kids (and LUGO)
O’s and Angels could be outside bidders, but he should really resign with the Cards.
O’s and Angels could be outside bidders, but he should really resign with the Cards.
Two comments about above comments:
1. 38 mill for pujols and Holliday.
-Pujols has to agree to sign for 20 million; he’s the best player in the game so look for it to be closer to 30 than 20.
2. Plan B
-I honestly think that plan B Damon & Beltre for the same it would cost for Holliday. AND both of those players could be off the books by the time the Pujols negotiations have to take place. A line up starting off with pujos, damon and beltre ( in the NL Damon and Beltre would be alot better than they are in the AL b/c of the competition ) is alot better than a lineup with Pujols and a bunch of kids (and LUGO)
Yeah, if Holliday gets 18MM per, Pujols is getting much, much more than 20MM per.
Yeah, if Holliday gets 18MM per, Pujols is getting much, much more than 20MM per.
Two comments about above comments:
1. 38 mill for pujols and Holliday.
-Pujols has to agree to sign for 20 million; he’s the best player in the game so look for it to be closer to 30 than 20.
2. Plan B
-I honestly think that plan B Damon & Beltre for the same it would cost for Holliday. AND both of those players could be off the books by the time the Pujols negotiations have to take place. A line up starting off with pujos, damon and beltre ( in the NL Damon and Beltre would be alot better than they are in the AL b/c of the competition ) is alot better than a lineup with Pujols and a bunch of kids (and LUGO)
sry for the double post
sry for the double post
Johnny Damon is a product of the Yankees new field, cards should stay far away.
Johnny Damon is a product of the Yankees new field, cards should stay far away.
Damon, Beltre, and Valverde. = Plan “B”
I could also see the cards packaging Skip, along with Boggs or Garcia to possibly land Dan Uggla from the Marlins. With a lineup like:
Ryan 2b
DamonLF
Pujols 1st
Ludwick RF
Uggla 2d
Beltre 3d
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Looks pretty good to me. Of course whichever young pitcher doesn’t get traded is our Fifth Starter. Sign Valverde and we have an established Closer and a good set-up man in Franklin
-Pitcher-
I don’t see them trading Skip. Better defense than Uggla, which is said cause he’s only been a 2nd basemen one year. Plus power is not their concern, they love Skip’s 300 avg. at the top of the lineup combined with his better .OBP
I don’t see them trading Skip. Better defense than Uggla, which is said cause he’s only been a 2nd basemen one year. Plus power is not their concern, they love Skip’s 300 avg. at the top of the lineup combined with his better .OBP
I could also see the cards packaging Skip, along with Boggs or Garcia to possibly land Dan Uggla from the Marlins. With a lineup like:
Ryan 2b
DamonLF
Pujols 1st
Ludwick RF
Uggla 2d
Beltre 3d
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Looks pretty good to me. Of course whichever young pitcher doesn’t get traded is our Fifth Starter. Sign Valverde and we have an established Closer and a good set-up man in Franklin
-Pitcher-
ANDY,
agree, whoever signs damon will be disappointed in what they get for power numbers. he’ll prob hit for above avg avg/obp. but his slugging will go way down and not having melky, cano and jeter on base for him all the time will really hurt his run production.
I think an interesting signing would be damon to the Mariners.
figgins
ichiro
damon
talk about having to absolutely grind thru the top three in the order. while there wouldn’t be much pop there; i wouldn’t want to be the guy trying to work thru that 1,2,3
ANDY,
agree, whoever signs damon will be disappointed in what they get for power numbers. he’ll prob hit for above avg avg/obp. but his slugging will go way down and not having melky, cano and jeter on base for him all the time will really hurt his run production.
I think an interesting signing would be damon to the Mariners.
figgins
ichiro
damon
talk about having to absolutely grind thru the top three in the order. while there wouldn’t be much pop there; i wouldn’t want to be the guy trying to work thru that 1,2,3
Lets say Cardinals go to plan B: Damon & Beltre.
Damon 2yr 15.5mill – 7.75mill
Beltre 2yr 15mill- 7.5 mill
Lineup:
1) Schumaker-2b
2) Damon-LF
3) Pujols-1b
4) Ludwick-RF
5) A.Beltre-3b
6) C.Rasmus-CF
7) Y.Molina-C
8) B. Ryan-SS
Pitching staff:
RHP Carpenter
RHP Wainright
RHP B.Penny
RHP K.Lohse
RHP M.Boggs
Lets say Cardinals go to plan B: Damon & Beltre.
Damon 2yr 15.5mill – 7.75mill
Beltre 2yr 15mill- 7.5 mill
Lineup:
1) Schumaker-2b
2) Damon-LF
3) Pujols-1b
4) Ludwick-RF
5) A.Beltre-3b
6) C.Rasmus-CF
7) Y.Molina-C
8) B. Ryan-SS
Pitching staff:
RHP Carpenter
RHP Wainright
RHP B.Penny
RHP K.Lohse
RHP M.Boggs
Scott Boras continues to be an idiot this offseason…
he makes his clientes rich, B–
yes…but he is COOOOLLLDDD BLOOOODED
he makes his clientes rich, B–
Scott Boras continues to be an idiot this offseason…
Scott Boras really misread the market for holliday this off season. he should’ve accepted the original offer way back by the rockies and stayed in colorado.
Scott Boras really misread the market for holliday this off season. he should’ve accepted the original offer way back by the rockies and stayed in colorado.
cards closing in on 98.5MM deal?
sorry link, twitter.com/JimBowdenIV/status/7372634610
also relevant, twitter.com/dgoold/status/7373425672
“The Orioles have been in the bidding despite comments by their people downplaying their interest and involvement, as one person familiar with their situation says they are ‘laying in the weeds.'”
These writers need to stop toying with my emotions…
Heyman is just a shill for Boras. You can’t trust anything he says about a boras client, because it seems like it can always be boras working an angle
“The Orioles have been in the bidding despite comments by their people downplaying their interest and involvement, as one person familiar with their situation says they are ‘laying in the weeds.”’
These writers need to stop toying with my emotions…
All of these sportswriters are making guesses, some more educated than others. The most likely scenario is still Holliday signing with the Cardinals, the latest rumor being for 6 years, ~$110 million. Notice that is just over $18 million per year, which is what Holliday/Boras have said all along is their floor.
Enough is enough. He’s NOT GOING TO THE ORIOLES. Good god shut up already. The Orioles have been laying the weeds, yeah in the bottom of the division.
Not saying it’ll happen but its not out of the realm of possibility. The Nats offered Teixera the highest or near the highest amount last year. There are many people who offered an extra 20MM (extra year + few mil higher annual) can’t turn it down. The O’s/Nat’s want to make a statement to their fans they have the cash to do it.
Not saying it’ll happen but its not out of the realm of possibility. The Nats offered Teixera the highest or near the highest amount last year. There are many people who offered an extra 20MM (extra year + few mil higher annual) can’t turn it down. The O’s/Nat’s want to make a statement to their fans they have the cash to do it.
NOBODY else is going to jump in. Holliday/Boras will not lower his price. In 2010, Matt Holliday will be a st. louis cardinal. The Question is: “How Long?” Which contract will he sign?
I believe that he will sign the 7yr/112 million deal THIS WEEK.
By the way, WainwrightGotScrewed is my opinion about this year’s CY YOUNG, too.
I can’t put much stock in anything Heyman has to say. How often is he actually right?
It’s been said Heyman has a inside to Boras, but he does get some junk along with that.
However he was the first one to break the Teixeira signing with the Yankees when everybody else thought he was Boston bound…
Holliday should sign for about 100 million sometime this week. If not, the Cards need to go to plan B. Holliday can’t hold the Cards hostage while other FA go elsewhere.
Besides, Holliday in the AL is a joke. i.e the A’s.
I think you mean o’s..not a’s
No, I mean the “A”s he played there to begin the 2009 season, remember?
After a rough start in Oakland, Holliday put up a .900 OPS from mid May until the trade to the Cardinals. All while hitting between two guys who put up .420 slugging percentages. And playing in the worst hitters park in the AL.
Pretty good, I think.
Where is Peter Gammons saying Matt would rather play in Beirut then Missouri? New Years and he hasn’t taken the best offer. Thats what he would be saying if Missouri was New York.
How much money will Holliday lose for signing in 2010 instead of 09?
well consider another boras client (Manny) who was considered the best outfielder on the market- He got 2 years at 20 mil per… Also look at Teixeira, (boras client) considered the best FA hitter on the market, who got 8 years for roughly 22.5 each year.
With that in mind- its reasonable to say that had Holliday signed in 2009, he would probably make at least 20 mil, probably closer to the 21-22 m range.
Even by the highest contract (guess) by the cardinals, that’s at least 2-3 mil less, probably more like 4-5 mil. Over the course of a longer contract (meeting Holliday’s wants) he would probably make around 15-20 mil less over the entire contract.
Keep in mind that hindsight is 20-20, and in this case, and the available outfielders last year were better, perhaps yielding lower numbers for another boras client- Abreu, Ibainiez, and Manny all come to mind with this.
well consider another boras client (Manny) who was considered the best outfielder on the market- He got 2 years at 20 mil per… Also look at Teixeira, (boras client) considered the best FA hitter on the market, who got 8 years for roughly 22.5 each year.
With that in mind- its reasonable to say that had Holliday signed in 2009, he would probably make at least 20 mil, probably closer to the 21-22 m range.
Even by the highest contract (guess) by the cardinals, that’s at least 2-3 mil less, probably more like 4-5 mil. Over the course of a longer contract (meeting Holliday’s wants) he would probably make around 15-20 mil less over the entire contract.
Keep in mind that hindsight is 20-20, and in this case, and the available outfielders last year were better, perhaps yielding lower numbers for another boras client- Abreu, Ibainiez, and Manny all come to mind with this.
Good to see that it is getting close (supposedly) to be over. Boras was getting old dragging out the negotiations…
Arghh. Putting that kind of money behind two players leaves the organization dependent on too few cartilage. They would have been better to spread it around to cover a variety of holes, giving them better depth offensively and pitching wise, then making another Boras client so rich that he can play at 65%.
Oh well. The Cards real problem isn’t among the 25 spots now anyways. It’s their farm system. That’s where they’ll really suffer if things are not turned around soon.
Cards were doing a good job at turning their farm system around, and then they gutted it last year. It’s not like the card system is bad because of poor picks (except Kozma over Porcello) it’s bad because of trades. No reason to think they can’t replenish it in a year or two.
Orioles are doing a great job in drafts and their farm system. Holliday would be perfect to the O’s IMO. They can afford him FOR ALL THE YEARS IN THE DEAL.
When you talk about signing Albert LT, you’re talking about starting at 25 million per. When you factor in Holliday’s 18.5+ million per, that’s alot.
Especially if they want to lock up Wainwright and Carpenter
Carp is already locked up long term and will post likely takes short year to year deals after he becomes a FA after 2013 when he will be on the wrong side of 30
Orioles might be able to afford Holliday but that doesn’t mean he wants to play there. For one he’d have to play in Baltimore, and for two he’d be playing for a team that at best could be a 3rd place team. For the orioles to get holliday they would have to vastly overpay for his services.
Also cards have waino locked up till 2013, Carp til 2012 at which point he’ll probably retire or at least take a drastic salary reduction.
As far as albert goes, the cards need to sign holliday to entice pujols to sign an extension. Albert wants to win, and he’s tired of getting pitched around he needs protection.
He doesn’t? How do you know? His two best friends play there Garrett Atkins and Brian Roberts, its a hitters park, he is getting thrown into a great core of ball players. WE have the money to pay him, he will thrive in B’more.
When you throw him in a lineup with:
Brian Roberts
Adam Jones
Nick Markakis
Matt Holliday
Garrett Attkins
Nolan Reimold
Felix Pie
Luke Scott
Ty Wigginton
…just to mention a few.
He might just like Baltimore a little more.
Now, if Baltimore add’s Sheets and he can stay healthy, they will be pretty good (not saying as good as Card’s, but they will be good) and MAtt Holliday will make everyone in the lineup a little better, especially if Garrett Atkins can rebound.
With a roation of
Sheets
Millwood
Matusz
Guthrie
Bergesen
Tillman & Arrieta (in AAA to start)
That’s good…and these kids are legit.
On the flip side if you have a roation that has
Wainwright & Carpenter, you just stole the entire argument.
So in the end, both places are great fits, FOR MATT, and for the teams.
Baltimore has the money, Card’s will be tight on it, when they wana lock Albert up.
If I’m the Card’s I go look at Dye for 2 years. Why?
Cheaper
Can hit more homeruns
Holliday isn’t a big homerun hitter (25 at most).
I’m all for giving you guys Lukke Scott, he used to play with the AStros, so he is pretty familiar with St Louios
People close to holliday have said he wants to play in st louis, and as long as the offer is close to any other offers out there he’ll be a cardinal. So yah he’s going to be a cardinal, he likes playing in a packed stadium in front of baseball’s best fans, for a division winner. He’s not going to be playing for an also ran team unless they give him a shit load of money.
Everytime I see these lineups on here people bat Holliday 4th. Holliday is a pure #3 hitter and would be on almost any other team that doesn’t have Pujols. The man is a former batting champion w/ power. He’s not a clean up hitter he’s the best hitter on the team on most teams. The same goes for Mets fans lineups that put Beltran at #3 over Holliday when Holliday is clearly the better all around hitter, Beltran’s a career .283 hitter Holliday is a .318 career hitter w/ equal power. I don’t know it just bugs me that Holliday doesn’t get the respect he deserves and I’ve seen this on almost every lineup a poster has put him in. He’s a batting champion w/ power.
I agree. Very few lineups in baseball have as pure a #3 hitter as Holliday is. He brings everything expected of a 3 hitter, average, ops, as well as sufficient pop. When I think of cleanup hitters Fielder and Howard come to mind as prototypical power hitters. Pujols could fall in there as well if it weren’t for his high average. Even LaRussa admits he’d rather have Pujols in a cleanup like spot, except he wants him to hit in the first inning. That’s why he’s so often moved the pitcher to the 8 spot. Plus I forget the study conducted when A-Rod was in Texas, but they flirted with moving him to the 2 or even the 1 spot because on average it’s somthing like 17 or 27 more at bats a year they get for every spot they move up in the order.
I agree. Very few lineups in baseball have as pure a #3 hitter as Holliday is. He brings everything expected of a 3 hitter, average, ops, as well as sufficient pop. When I think of cleanup hitters Fielder and Howard come to mind as prototypical power hitters. Pujols could fall in there as well if it weren’t for his high average. Even LaRussa admits he’d rather have Pujols in a cleanup like spot, except he wants him to hit in the first inning. That’s why he’s so often moved the pitcher to the 8 spot. Plus I forget the study conducted when A-Rod was in Texas, but they flirted with moving him to the 2 or even the 1 spot because on average it’s somthing like 17 or 27 more at bats a year they get for every spot they move up in the order.
Everytime I see these lineups on here people bat Holliday 4th. Holliday is a pure #3 hitter and would be on almost any other team that doesn’t have Pujols. The man is a former batting champion w/ power. He’s not a clean up hitter he’s the best hitter on the team on most teams. The same goes for Mets fans lineups that put Beltran at #3 over Holliday when Holliday is clearly the better all around hitter, Beltran’s a career .283 hitter Holliday is a .318 career hitter w/ equal power. I don’t know it just bugs me that Holliday doesn’t get the respect he deserves and I’ve seen this on almost every lineup a poster has put him in. He’s a batting champion w/ power.
MLb network says differently.
Renyolds says that Baltimore would be a PERFECT fit for Holliday
1) He is a RH power bat we are seeking
2) Can bat 3 or 4 in a lineup and produce
3) Baltimore is a great city, great park
4) Baltimore has the money to spend on a bat that they need
5) It makes their surplus of OF’ers expendable for a part that they need
These are all great points for Harold. And IMO don’t rule out the O’s…Andy always has something up his sleve, even if he is laying in weeds!
Agree that it would make sense for the O’s to try and get him, but I don’t see them doing it. I bet the Cards have this deal done by Friday.
Oh if only the world of Baseball were as Harold Reynolds see’s it…..
yea i kinda lost all respect for him when he said the Braves made a horrible trade by giving up Javy for Melky. I guess Vizcaino doesnt count in the trade. He doesnt want to tell the world that the Yankees traded one of the top 50 prospects in all of baseball for a 1 year rental of a pitcher coming off a career best year.
yea i kinda lost all respect for him when he said the Braves made a horrible trade by giving up Javy for Melky. I guess Vizcaino doesnt count in the trade. He doesnt want to tell the world that the Yankees traded one of the top 50 prospects in all of baseball for a 1 year rental of a pitcher coming off a career best year.
Sign Holliday and still sign Tejada for 3rd base. That would make a heck of a lineup. 2yrs and up to 10mil per year.
that lineup would be almost completely Right Handed.
that lineup would be almost completely Right Handed.
if Holliday doesn’t work out then still sign tejada and damon or dye to play left. You can get both of them for alittle more than for one Holliday.
Dye and Tejada would be nice. Perhaps Valverde as well?
Dye and Tejada would be my plan B.
Dye and Tejada would be my plan B.
It’s about time. I’d like to have Holliday and then sign either Tejada to play 3B or for us to sign Wang as our 5th starter. Duncan would help him back and turn him into the pitcher he was with the Yankees.
Sure seems like a good time for the Cubs new owners to jump in and make an offer. Too bad they don’t appear willing to spend the money. They won’t since they just picked up Byrd but what better way to say happy new year to the Cardinals than stealing a player of Holliday’s caliber from them? The Cubs need to learn how to play tough in situations like this, make the rest of the NL Central fans hate them for more than just their own ignorance 😉
sign Holliday at any cost!
I wonder if the Red Sox will go all in now that they have surpassed the threshold. Cameron to platoon with Ellsbury and Drew? It could work.
I think all in for the Sox is signing Chapman… not Holliday.
Yeah all-in for a AA pitcher… The risk/reward makes no sense at 20MM, why not go over-slot for two or three first round types in the draft. Hell you could sign 5 very high quality picks for that money. Its not like he’s a sure thing, scouts say he’s not even in Strasburg’s league (yet).
Yeah all-in for a AA pitcher… The risk/reward makes no sense at 20MM, why not go over-slot for two or three first round types in the draft. Hell you could sign 5 very high quality picks for that money. Its not like he’s a sure thing, scouts say he’s not even in Strasburg’s league (yet).
The Cards need to get Boras to sign the contract for Holliday so the Cards can start dealing with other needs. I wish Mo would get into contact with Boston about doing a trade for Lowell. Boston should be willing to eat alot of his remaining contract and the Cards can never have enough protection for Pujols. Then check out who would be interested in trading for Ludwick hopefully somebody with some quality arms in the minors (the one thing the Cardinals have is a surplus of outfielders that could fill in for Ludwick). And the Cards need to trade Ludwick before he starts getting into the big money because he won’t get a big contract from the Cards with all of the other big contracts they have and the Cardinals farm system is in need of some quality prospects especially pitching. And itf this happens, it gives Allen Craig a chance to show what he can do with the big club since he has hit at every level with power and average. So what do you thing MTR, brilliant or ignorant?
Completely agree. Lets bring back Smoltz to really help coach the youngsters. We need a fix at third. Lowell would be a great fit and a nice fit in the clubhouse IMO.
Furthermore, Luddy will never be what he was, get what we can for him.
I’d like to see if the Braves or Rangers would come off some of their pitching talent for Luddy. I know that the Braves would still like to have a big bat in their lineup even thougth they have Glaus now. The Rangers have a shit load of talent in their farm system that would be great to plunder. Baltimore needs a bat (from what I hear on here and his contract is very reasonable). I wouldn’t mind haveing some of their talent in our system. And man we need to see if Jay, Hill, Jones, Craig, Stavinhoah (spelling) can cut it an the major league level. I think Craig and Jay are ready now and should be given the chance.
I’d like to see if the Braves or Rangers would come off some of their pitching talent for Luddy. I know that the Braves would still like to have a big bat in their lineup even thougth they have Glaus now. The Rangers have a shit load of talent in their farm system that would be great to plunder. Baltimore needs a bat (from what I hear on here and his contract is very reasonable). I wouldn’t mind haveing some of their talent in our system. And man we need to see if Jay, Hill, Jones, Craig, Stavinhoah (spelling) can cut it an the major league level. I think Craig and Jay are ready now and should be given the chance.
if the cards get holliday, that will please Albert. Albert has said he wants to spend his career in St. Louis. I have a hunch that Albert, seeing the dedication the club is willing to offer, will take even the slightest discount when/if he hits the open market. He’s just the perfect player, heart’s in the right place. My favorite player to ever have watched hands down. AND. i have his autograph!
If they get Holliday, its going to be very difficult to lock up Albert, where is all of this $$ coming from, the Card’s aren’t the BoSox, Yanks, or Cubs…
I can see the Orioles being the sleeper team on Holliday this year like the Yanks were with Tex last year
This is what aggravates the he’ll out of me, we have the capability to match payrolls like the cubs ( 110-130 range ) but the owner makes every excuse he can. My favorite is the mortgage on the stadium excuse
you didn’t listen to what he said, the cards need to sign holliday or Pujols likely won’t be signing an extension here. The cards have to show Holliday that they will build a winning team around him before signs an extension. They have room for both Holliday and Pujols with a 100 to 110 million dollar payroll, now guys like ludwick probably won’t stay in the long term, but that’ll be alright.
you didn’t listen to what he said, the cards need to sign holliday or Pujols likely won’t be signing an extension here. The cards have to show Holliday that they will build a winning team around him before signs an extension. They have room for both Holliday and Pujols with a 100 to 110 million dollar payroll, now guys like ludwick probably won’t stay in the long term, but that’ll be alright.
Anyone who lives around or has been to a game in STL knows ALbert is going to stay.
The Red Sox met with Boras and Teixeira and got nothing finalized as well…
I don’t think Holliday is as good of a player as Teixera and worth breaking the bank (again). Given that he wouldn’t come at any sort of discount, why would the Yanks/Sox run 18MM/8 years for this guy? The O’s have a shot (maybe the Nat’s as well?) but I think that’s only if there’s a real stumble in the negotiations.
Oh I don’t think the Yanks or Sox are in it at all, though I wouldn’t be shocked to see him sign there or anywhere else but St. Louis.
What I do think just looking at how this has played out, is that the Cardinals are being strung along only to lose Holliday to the team he wants to sign with whoever that may be.
Remember, the team that is usually the most vocal and the most talked about as the front runner in a chase like this, is the team that usually loses out on the Boras client.
It happened to Boston twice with Damon and Teixeira and the Astros with Beltran and it can most certainly happen to the Cardinals.
I guess I won’t be shocked by any development. You just never know with Boras until the player agrees to terms.
Its one of the only bargaining tactics he has left. The other, which he used with Beltre, would be to sign a 1 or 2 year deal then wait for another year to cash in on the mega deal. However, that doesn’t look like a good play given the better FA OF’s on the market next year and his age. If the Cards were smart they’d make him concede and sign a somewhat reasonable deal.
Its one of the only bargaining tactics he has left. The other, which he used with Beltre, would be to sign a 1 or 2 year deal then wait for another year to cash in on the mega deal. However, that doesn’t look like a good play given the better FA OF’s on the market next year and his age. If the Cards were smart they’d make him concede and sign a somewhat reasonable deal.
Oh I don’t think the Yanks or Sox are in it at all, though I wouldn’t be shocked to see him sign there or anywhere else but St. Louis.
What I do think just looking at how this has played out, is that the Cardinals are being strung along only to lose Holliday to the team he wants to sign with whoever that may be.
Remember, the team that is usually the most vocal and the most talked about as the front runner in a chase like this, is the team that usually loses out on the Boras client.
It happened to Boston twice with Damon and Teixeira and the Astros with Beltran and it can most certainly happen to the Cardinals.
I guess I won’t be shocked by any development. You just never know with Boras until the player agrees to terms.
I don’t think Holliday is as good of a player as Teixera and worth breaking the bank (again). Given that he wouldn’t come at any sort of discount, why would the Yanks/Sox run 18MM/8 years for this guy? The O’s have a shot (maybe the Nat’s as well?) but I think that’s only if there’s a real stumble in the negotiations.
Holliday does not get full respect because he has hit in the past far, far better in a stadium that was nothing but a launching pad and mirrored the career of people like Dante Bichette and Garret Atkins. Until he proves otherwise? He will continue to have massive amounts of doubters everywhere.
Holliday does not get full respect because he has hit in the past far, far better in a stadium that was nothing but a launching pad and mirrored the career of people like Dante Bichette and Garret Atkins. Until he proves otherwise? He will continue to have massive amounts of doubters everywhere.
Holliday really isnt a cleanup hitter and they might do better putting Pujols BEHIND Holliday.
Holliday really isnt a cleanup hitter and they might do better putting Pujols BEHIND Holliday.
I hope Holliday doesnt have a good year this year… he might be good but hes not worth that much money no ball player is… Go Braves
I hope Holliday doesnt have a good year this year… he might be good but hes not worth that much money no ball player is… Go Braves
I hope Matt signs soon so I can stop hearing all this orioles non-sense. Face it folks he’s not going to play for perennial loser. As long as the o’s are in the same divison as the yanks and sox THEY WILL NEVER WIN!!! Stop dreaming folks.
Frankly the Cardinals would be better off not signing Holliday and trading Pujols for a ransom so they can rebuild their farm system.Do Cards fans really think they can do much with the rest of their team with close to 50 million tied up in Pujols and Holliday?Better to trade Pujols for a kings ransom and grab three or four of the top prospects in baseball for him than to lose him for nothing but draft picks when another team signs him for 8-10 years at 30 million per year after 2011.
you will never ever be able to get close to the value you are giving away in pujols in prospects. A player like this comes along once in a generation, when you have this type of player you do everything you can to keep him. Trading him would be up there with trading Babe Ruth for cash. Cards farm system is bad because they made a lot of trades and had a lot of callups, it shouldn’t take too long to rebuild considering the job they did the first time.
And besides we have two cy young candidates right now, this is not the time to rebuild it’s the time to go all in.
your absolutely dillusional, this is the NL central, not the AL east. we can make the play offs working on just holliday,pujols,wainwright,carpenter. why the hell woudl you just throw away a play off team so you can rebuild? and no team has enough of a farm system to even tempt the cardinals into trading pujols..that would require about a 500 million dollars and somewhere in the neibhborhood of 10 A+ prospects.
If this goes down, the brewers need to sign Fielder to a lucrative long term deal because that way Milwaukee can compete with the Cards with Braun and Fielder as duo in Milwaukee and Holliday and Pujols in St. Louis
I personally think that would be a mistake, Fielder seems destined to become a DH, and with Boras as his agent I doubt he’d want to sign an extension. I like the moves the Brewers have made, I think their moves put them ahead of the cubs, but you still need more pitching, at least you’ll have the dead money in suppan and bill hall coming off the books at the end of next year. Maybe trade fielder’s fat ass for pitching and buy a bat.
People always seem to say this about Fielder but after watching him more often he is a great “fielder” at first. I can’t believe how fast his big butt moves but he does. Maybe after his extension he will become a DH but I think it’s atleast 6-7 years away
if it’s worth anything, fielder is losing weight and becoming healther after becoming vegetarian. maybe he keeps slimming down. kinda shocked that a vegetarian produces giant numbers like that, especially i am a vegetarian and can barely hit the ball out lol.
i said that backwords, i mean to say he looks he is much healthier in the 2009 season, contradictory to the 08 season.
For what it’s worth, Holliday is said to have put in an offer on a home in St. Louis.
For anyone interested, Holliday has made an offer for a house in St Louis, twitter.com/590thefanKFNS/status/7406181160
For anyone interested, Holliday has made an offer for a house in St Louis, twitter.com/590thefanKFNS/status/7406181160