Kevin Millwood and Ty Wigginton told Dan Martin of the New York Post that they are open to playing for the Mets if the Orioles become sellers. Though Hisanori Takahashi and R.A. Dickey have been effective for the Mets recently, the club may look for starting pitching depth later this summer. That idea that appeals to Millwood.
"I woludn't mind pitching in New York," Millwood said. "It's a great city, but it's not really up to me whether I do or don't."
That's not quite true, since Millwood has a limited no trade clause. If the 15-37 Orioles start selling, Millwood, who makes $12MM this season in the last year of his contract, would appeal to teams in search of veteran starters. Though he's still winless, the right-hander has a 3.89 ERA this year with 7.1 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9.
Wigginton, who makes $3.5MM this year, is also in the last year of his contract. He has played first, second and third for the Orioles in 2010, but his versatility isn't his only appealing trait. The former Met has 13 homers already (partly since 25% of the fly balls he hits leave the park). Like Millwood, Wigginton says he would be open to playing in New York.
At a liftetime .271/.330/.457, at least we know Wiggington is better than Jeff Francouer.
Is Wigginton at least a decent defensive 2B?
He’s decent. He’s lightyears better than, say, an Uggla and you won’t see him making a ton of errors. His range is limited going to his right. Going to his left he’s solid. He hangs in for DPs. Not agile though. Built more like a tank. Sometimes he muffs a ball but he’s smart enough to put those plays in his pocket than make bad plays worse.
He’s decent. He’s lightyears better than, say, an Uggla and you won’t see him making a ton of errors. His range is limited going to his right. Going to his left he’s solid. He hangs in for DPs. Not agile though. Built more like a tank. Sometimes he muffs a ball but he’s smart enough to put those plays in his pocket than make bad plays worse.
I wouldn’t want to play him there regularly at this point in his career. His range there was iffy a few years ago.
I wouldn’t want to play him there regularly at this point in his career. His range there was iffy a few years ago.
I wouldn’t say Wigginton is decent defensively at 2B, but you aren’t acquiring him for his defense. The Mets offensive numbers are far below what you are looking for out of a playoff team, and are near the cellar in terms of 2B numbers.
i would like the mets to get both, but what would they have to give up?
From an O’s perspective it is not in their best interest to package the players unless the Mets were to give up a top talent. I would guess any deal would start with Havens and Tejada, but that wouldn’t be enough to get both players. I would imagine at least 2 prospects in the 10-20 range would need to be added with one of those likely in the 10-15 range.
Honestly though the O’s should probably try to make separate deals to tap into different farm systems
Would they really have to give up that much for them? They are basically salary dumps for the Orioles.
Would they really have to give up that much for them? They are basically salary dumps for the Orioles.
Sorry but you’re crazy if you think it would take that much.
Sorry but you’re crazy if you think it would take that much.
Is it just me or Havens and Tejada from the Mets is not really that much for them. What are we looking at? A defense-first SS and toolsy middle infielder with potential in the bat. Both have longish swings and relatively high K rates at lower minors. These guys are C prospects.
If a package of C prospects won’t get this done, then why bother? All the Os would accomplish is garuanteeing blowing out someone’s arm this season.
What are we looking at from the other side? An aging utility infielder and an aging back of the rotation starter who are both kind of expensive and gone after this year. Why would the Mets give up both those guys? Tejada can be a second division starter at short, and frankly, the Orioles could really use a guy like that. Adding Havens to the equation is too much.
It might seem like a lot from the Mets perspective, but in the bigger scheme of things, both prospects are fringe. They have tools, but both have blemishes to their game that might keep them from reaching and staying in the majors. I’m not bashing them. They have a shot to contribute, but niether are really likely to be regular everyday above-average players.
So what would the Mets get in return? Well, in Millwood, they’d get a veteran SP having a good season, in spite of bad run support. To do that alone, midseason, is worth a lot. I’m not saying it’d be C.C. to the Brewers type of playoff run, but adding a SP at the break can make a difference. If that’s not worth C prospects, then the Mets are probably not serious about a deal. If the Mets offered players any “worse” than those guys, it’s likely to get passed on by the Os. Tejada and Havens wouldn’t crack their Top 15.
That’s nonsense. You’re overestimating the O’s farm depth. And besides, why should they get two top fifteen prospects for their system for renting a solid pitcher?
What are we looking at from the other side? An aging utility infielder and an aging back of the rotation starter who are both kind of expensive and gone after this year. Why would the Mets give up both those guys? Tejada can be a second division starter at short, and frankly, the Orioles could really use a guy like that. Adding Havens to the equation is too much.
Is it just me or Havens and Tejada from the Mets is not really that much for them. What are we looking at? A defense-first SS and toolsy middle infielder with potential in the bat. Both have longish swings and relatively high K rates at lower minors. These guys are C prospects.
If a package of C prospects won’t get this done, then why bother? All the Os would accomplish is garuanteeing blowing out someone’s arm this season.
Steve Shoup — Pass around whatever you’re smoking. The Mets are not giving up “top talent” for a 36-year old winless pitcher who’s making $12 million a year, and a glorified utility player. Both players can help the Mets, no question, but if I’m the Mets then you’re going to get mid-level prospects if you want me to take these veterans off your hands in what has been a disappointing season at Camden Yards.
I still think the Mets should go hard after Cliff Lee, as the thought of him pitching against the Phillies is irresistible — which means the Mets’ front office won’t do it, of course. Not a big fan of dealing with the O’s as they killed a deal at the last minute several years ago that would’ve put Roy Oswalt in Met uniform.
Look part of the problem is the Mets don’t have a great Farm system, outside of their top 3 or 4 guys what is there to get really excited about. I mentioned Havens and Tejada (7th and 9th according to BA) and basemonkey is right that isn’t nearly enough. The fact that Millwood is winless has more to do with the O’s bullpen sucking and offense not producing than his own fault. He has pitched well, in fact in a tougher league and a more hitter friendly park he has pitched better than anyone on the Mets not named Pelfrey or Santana. Also Millwood isn’t making $12 million, the Rangers are picking up some of the tab and the O’s have already paid a third of the year, so the Mets would get a likely Type A free agent for around $7 million the rest of the year. Wiggy might be a utility player, but he is a huge upgrade over the production the Mets are getting at 2nd and RF (and actually at 3B and LF but i think those positions are safe). Also Wigginton is making practically nothing this year, so it is not some major salary dump.
You say you wouldn’t give up anything more than mid-level prospects, but that is all i mentioned Havens and Tejada aren’t exactly blue chip guys, and guys in that 10-20 range are by definition mid-level guys. Again I still think they would do two separate deals since it is probably better to get mid-level guys from a deeper more talented organization than the Mets farm system.
Look part of the problem is the Mets don’t have a great Farm system, outside of their top 3 or 4 guys what is there to get really excited about. I mentioned Havens and Tejada (7th and 9th according to BA) and basemonkey is right that isn’t nearly enough. The fact that Millwood is winless has more to do with the O’s bullpen sucking and offense not producing than his own fault. He has pitched well, in fact in a tougher league and a more hitter friendly park he has pitched better than anyone on the Mets not named Pelfrey or Santana. Also Millwood isn’t making $12 million, the Rangers are picking up some of the tab and the O’s have already paid a third of the year, so the Mets would get a likely Type A free agent for around $7 million the rest of the year. Wiggy might be a utility player, but he is a huge upgrade over the production the Mets are getting at 2nd and RF (and actually at 3B and LF but i think those positions are safe). Also Wigginton is making practically nothing this year, so it is not some major salary dump.
You say you wouldn’t give up anything more than mid-level prospects, but that is all i mentioned Havens and Tejada aren’t exactly blue chip guys, and guys in that 10-20 range are by definition mid-level guys. Again I still think they would do two separate deals since it is probably better to get mid-level guys from a deeper more talented organization than the Mets farm system.
The Mets wouldn’t be taking veterans off of the O’s hands. The O’s are a financially well-to-do team playing in a wealthy state. And the O’s would rather not get rid of Millwood or Wigginton. They want good veterans to surround their young players, and they want at least some players who are having decent seasons. Plus, the O’s could get two draft picks for Millwood if he leaves via free agency. No reason to trade him somewhere for mediocre young players, which the O’s already have in abundance. The O’s would need a decent (though not awesome) return to justify trading either of them.
The only reason Millwood is winless is because he plays for the Orioles, and as the O’s “ace” he has to go against the Sabathias, Lesters and Garzas of the AL East. If he played for the Mets he would likely be one of the better pitchers in the NL East.
Going after Cliff Lee makes sense, but the Mets will have to give up a lot to get him. Or maybe the Orioles and Mets could do a deal on Jeremy Guthrie rather than Millwood. Guthrie is pretty young and is pitching well this year. He would be even better in the NL and in the huge Citifield ballpark
Steve Shoup — Pass around whatever you’re smoking. The Mets are not giving up “top talent” for a 36-year old winless pitcher who’s making $12 million a year, and a glorified utility player. Both players can help the Mets, no question, but if I’m the Mets then you’re going to get mid-level prospects if you want me to take these veterans off your hands in what has been a disappointing season at Camden Yards.
I still think the Mets should go hard after Cliff Lee, as the thought of him pitching against the Phillies is irresistible — which means the Mets’ front office won’t do it, of course. Not a big fan of dealing with the O’s as they killed a deal at the last minute several years ago that would’ve put Roy Oswalt in Met uniform.
Spirit of ’69:
He may be 36, he may be winless and he may be making $12 Million this year; but, if you actually look he has a 3.89 ERA, eats innings (would be 6th in the NL currently in IP), and is only owed $9 Million (Texas owes $3M). Also, 3.41 (K/BB), 2.07 (BB/9), 7.05 (K/9)…All of which are better than or at the least comparable to anyone in the Mets rotation. He could be the 3 in the rotation behind Santana/Peflrey.
I do not know the Mets farm system well enough to know what we should get for Millwood, but we are not going to just give him away. We are going to lose 100 games with or without him, and no one we get in this deal is going to make us a playoff contender next year anyways.
FYI – The 2007 Oswalt deal fell through because the Astros took him off the table.
Also, if your reason for not improving your team when you are within striking distance to make the playoffs is because a few years ago a deal didn’t get done, well then you and the Mets are in for another disappointing year.
Millwood won’t be on the next good Orioles team. They might as well get something for him.
But his value as a Type B Free Agent is probably higher than some C-Prospects from the Mets. All I was saying is that we are not going to simply give away a veteran guy like Millwood.
Due to Guthrie’s age and salary, I see the O’s dealing him with more ease.
A ready for the majors Tejada is probably better than what the Orioles would get with a sandwich round pick.
A ready for the majors Tejada is probably better than what the Orioles would get with a sandwich round pick.
The odds are that the Mets want to package these guys up for Lee somehow, only to be left without a trade at all because they wasted time and didn’t effectively evaluate their own prospects. The kind of package these guys add up to is just around what the Orioles got for Aubrey Huff when they dealt him, or, Trachsel when they dealt him. Decent C type prospects with a shot at contributing, if ever. If the Mets scoff at that, by citing how old Millwood is, or how not ideal Wiggi is, I’d argue that they’re arguing from the bias of their relatively shallow farm system.
I’m not saying the Mets system is “bad” as some folks like to pile on them. But it isn’t top 10-15 in baseball, which is where the Os are coming from, where you have middle infielders like Tejada all over the place.
And no, they don’t. That’s my point. They don’t have a guy like Tejada, who is a legit middle infielder and is very close to the majors.
Tejada posted a .732 OPS in AA and currently possesses a .704 OPS in AAA. I’m not saying he lacks potential – he is only 20 years old of course – but I wouldn’t say he is “very close to the majors”. Using this minor league equivalency calculator:
minorleaguesplits.com/mlecalc.html
we can see that Tejada’s stats for Buffalo translate to a .256/.299/.310 (.609 OPS) line for the Orioles. On the other hand, our best infield prospect is L.J. Hoes, who is similar in age and potential as Tejada. His statistics in High-A Frederick translate to a .212/.300/.286 line for the O’s (.586 OPS). I would venture to say that they are pretty similar players – a difference of 23 OPS points is marginal when you’re dealing with a ~150 at-bat sample.
Is Tejada too much to give up for Millwood? That largely depends on two factors – where the Mets are in the playoff race in July, and how much of Millwood’s contract the O’s eat. If the Mets are on top of the NL East or only a couple of games back in July, and if the O’s eat maybe $3-4 million of his contract, I would be happy to make this trade if I were a Mets fan, and happy to accept it as an Orioles fan.
But his value as a Type B Free Agent is probably higher than some C-Prospects from the Mets. All I was saying is that we are not going to simply give away a veteran guy like Millwood.
Due to Guthrie’s age and salary, I see the O’s dealing him with more ease.
Millwood won’t be on the next good Orioles team. They might as well get something for him.
Spirit of ’69:
He may be 36, he may be winless and he may be making $12 Million this year; but, if you actually look he has a 3.89 ERA, eats innings (would be 6th in the NL currently in IP), and is only owed $9 Million (Texas owes $3M). Also, 3.41 (K/BB), 2.07 (BB/9), 7.05 (K/9)…All of which are better than or at the least comparable to anyone in the Mets rotation. He could be the 3 in the rotation behind Santana/Peflrey.
I do not know the Mets farm system well enough to know what we should get for Millwood, but we are not going to just give him away. We are going to lose 100 games with or without him, and no one we get in this deal is going to make us a playoff contender next year anyways.
FYI – The 2007 Oswalt deal fell through because the Astros took him off the table.
Also, if your reason for not improving your team when you are within striking distance to make the playoffs is because a few years ago a deal didn’t get done, well then you and the Mets are in for another disappointing year.
Steve Shoup, niched and TexasOriole — Very much appreciate the feedback, all good points except I think Angelos had more to do with nixing Oswalt than the Astros, but that may just be a function of how media in different cities covered it at the time. It would be easy to be critical of Angelos if the Mets didn’t have the most inept front office in baseball.
Sigh … just about any pitching outside of Oliver Perez would help the Mets. And either Millwood or Guthrie — in my opinion — would help. I live in the DC area and get MASN so I’ve seen them both pitch. I’d actually lean more toward Guthrie because who knows what you get out of Millwood beyond this year. All things considered I’d rather make a big play for Lee, sign him and put him between Santana and Pelfrey — the Mets have the money, they just need to find the willngness. As for 2Bk, just bring up Tejada and give him a shot to replace Castillo who’s going to need crutches soon.
Steve Shoup, niched and TexasOriole — Very much appreciate the feedback, all good points except I think Angelos had more to do with nixing Oswalt than the Astros, but that may just be a function of how media in different cities covered it at the time. It would be easy to be critical of Angelos if the Mets didn’t have the most inept front office in baseball.
Sigh … just about any pitching outside of Oliver Perez would help the Mets. And either Millwood or Guthrie — in my opinion — would help. I live in the DC area and get MASN so I’ve seen them both pitch. I’d actually lean more toward Guthrie because who knows what you get out of Millwood beyond this year. All things considered I’d rather make a big play for Lee, sign him and put him between Santana and Pelfrey — the Mets have the money, they just need to find the willngness. As for 2Bk, just bring up Tejada and give him a shot to replace Castillo who’s going to need crutches soon.
Millwood is a Type B free agent currently, the Os would only get 1 draft pick for him. While the Os certainly may want good prospects for him, it’s unlikely that teams will be willing to both take on his salary and give up decent prospects – especially since it looks like there will be a decent amount of pitching available at the deadline this year.
I do think that people overrate how much a pitcher like Millwood is worth. Midseason trades for guys with 1 year left on their contract will rarely net a good return. Two big examples are Santana for a bunch of crap, and Teixeira for Kotchman. I know I just commented to someone else that I would give up Ruben Tejeda for him if I were the Mets, but that’s really the very high-end of what I think is realistic to trade for Millwood. I think the O’s will consider keeping Millwood and shopping Guthrie instead – he still has an arbitration year (or two?) left, he’s younger, cheaper, and we can always go out and get some other veteran innings eater to anchor the rotation next year, or even resign Millwood if he is willing…
Millwood is a Type B free agent currently, the Os would only get 1 draft pick for him. While the Os certainly may want good prospects for him, it’s unlikely that teams will be willing to both take on his salary and give up decent prospects – especially since it looks like there will be a decent amount of pitching available at the deadline this year.
Millwood for Murphy
That’s just silly.